ubotuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest01:21
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ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about meet - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi11:01
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 06 Feb 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu Community Council meeting | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
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ubotuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 06 Feb 20:00: Edubuntu Community Council meeting | 07 Feb 16:00: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest14:33
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* heno waves18:56
* ogasawara waves18:56
* stgraber too18:56
* cliebow cliebow too18:56
davmor2Hello everybody18:56
henoliw doesn't seem to be on-line18:57
henoit's 21.00 for him though18:57
henook, let's start18:57
MootBotMeeting started at 18:57. The chair is heno.18:57
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:57
henofirst some admin: can we do meeting minutes on rotation?18:58
henoI seem to be very bad at doing them18:58
henoIn return I'll make sure the agenda is out the day before each time :)18:59
ogasawaraheno:  what's required, just sending a summary to distro-team ml?18:59
henoogasawara: yes, just the agenda + what we decided19:00
henoit should go to ubuntu-qa as well19:00
ogasawaraheno: ok, I can do it for today's meeting19:00
henoogasawara: thanks!19:00
heno[TOPIC] SRU verification testing (Riddell asked about 133944, 184149 and 173890)19:01
MootBotNew Topic:  SRU verification testing (Riddell asked about 133944, 184149 and 173890)19:01
henowhat is the current SRU backlog?19:01
davmor2bug 13394419:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133944 in kdepim "package kitchensync 4:3.5.6-0ubuntu6 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/apps/ksync/ksyncui.rc', which is also in package ksync" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13394419:01
liwoh, a summary to the mailing list? I didn't do that last week19:02
henoIs there anyone other than the QA team doing these now?19:02
bdmurrayNone of those bugs have test cases19:02
heno(mvo was doing them before)19:02
bdmurrayOne person is doing some universe sru verification19:02
henobdmurray: and that would usually be the responsibility of the bug-fixer?19:03
heno(writing a test case)19:03
bdmurrayRight, that is part of the SRU process and should be done by the person who uploaded the package to proposed19:03
bdmurray133944 looks fairly obvious but I'm not certain about the other 219:04
pedro_the flash one looks like an installation issue, i can give it a try19:04
henook, I'll post a clarification somewhere19:04
pedro_it's a universe one but anyways, don't mind19:04
henoperhaps we should change the tag from needs-verification to needs-testcase in those cases19:05
bdmurrayI think it is important that the process is followed though19:05
henobdmurray: agreed, esp now that it's distributed over more people19:05
henoI have raised the manpower issue here with Matt19:06
henothanks, bdmurray i'll report back to Riddell19:07
heno[TOPIC] Bug days this week: 'no package' and Evolution19:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Bug days this week: 'no package' and Evolution19:07
henojust a bit of advertising for those :)19:07
henohow was yesterday's bug day?19:08
bdmurrayWe had about 15 participants - based off a review of the wiki page19:08
bdmurrayI have some numbers about how many each person did too19:09
henoI'll discuss the 'no package' question with the LP team on friday19:09
pedro_bdmurray: do you have a bughelper query for that ?19:10
bdmurraypedro_: I have some nasty script for parsing the wiki page19:10
pedro_ah ok19:10
henobdmurray: hm, should we publish such stats at the end of bug days?19:11
henohow do people feel about that?19:11
davmor2heno: might be good for selfesteem19:11
bdmurrayI think it could promote some healthy competition19:11
liwI think publishing stats would be good19:11
liwnot because of competition, but because it shows that they have an actual, positive impact19:12
henook, I guess it can just go on the wiki page19:12
henoand people can optionally blog about it19:12
bdmurrayI think mailing the bugsquad / desktop team with information about the top triager (not Canonical) would be good too19:12
heno(I'm setting up my blog today ...)19:13
henowhile on that topic, let's skip to ' 5-A-Day initiative'19:14
heno[TOPIC]  5-A-Day initiative19:14
MootBotNew Topic:   5-A-Day initiative19:14
bdmurrayRegarding the nopackage bugs I wonder if we are enabling people by filing their bug to a package19:14
liwbdmurray, you mean it would be better to teach them to select the package for their bug themselves?19:15
henobdmurray: there is that worry. I would rather have it set automatically to incomplete with an email explaining why19:15
henothat way it will eventually expire too19:16
bdmurrayliw: Right a mindset like "I don't need to find the package because somebody will do it for me"19:16
davmor2bdmurray: I think the problem is that people just don't know what's broken so don't know what to report it to19:16
liwI've felt like that, early on in my Ubuntu career19:16
liw(one of the nice things about reportbug in Debian is that it chooses the package (and reports the version) automatically)19:17
henoI don't think we can just ignore existing bugs, but we need a way to reduce it happening19:17
henoliw: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs19:18
henoi'm hoping that will help19:18
henowe should try to find out where people get their bug filing info from19:19
bdmurrayI agree that can finding the right package can be hard but we have done some work at documenting how to determine the source package and there are some packages which can get general bug reports and then set to a more specific package if necessary19:19
henowhat link do they follow to ...+filebug19:19
henodo they navigate ubuntu.com, LP or google?19:19
henowe should then make sure those paths have the right info19:20
bdmurrayheno: would the lp team have information on that?19:20
henoI can ask them and IS as well19:20
* heno makes note19:20
bdmurrayAdditionally knowing how many people use the advanced file bug form would be good to know.19:20
bdmurraySince that has no guided bug filing instructions19:21
pedro_and it's _really_ difficult to find19:21
henowe could also try a survey of 50 random bug filers19:21
davmor2so five-a-day?19:22
henoindeed; this is an initiative to get a broader group of people to do some bug work daily19:23
henodevelopers and power users for example19:23
henowe should have a 5-a-day link button for blogs19:24
henolike we are planning for the poll19:24
davmor2it's an interesting concept and it sounds plausible19:24
henoso ideas for key bug categories to look at are welcome19:25
henoboth 'easy' and 'hard' tasks19:25
henocan we leverage the bug day preparations?19:26
henoperhaps mop up bugs not covered on the day?19:26
davmor2heno: it might also be an interesting way to get the no-package bugs linked to a package.  If people like me search for 5 no-package bugs ask for more info where needed and add a package19:27
davmor2then the experts can take over :)19:28
henoI guess this is mostly ready for launch; I'll check with dholbach19:28
bdmurrayRight, I think the nopackage bugs can be very easy sometimes19:28
bdmurrayAnd moving them to the proper package is very helpful19:28
henobecause then the responsible teams may actually look at them :)19:29
heno[TOPIC] Upstream bug tracker wiki pages (help wanted)19:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Upstream bug tracker wiki pages (help wanted)19:29
heno(moving on)19:29
davmor2bdmurray: That's what I'm thinking if you get newer people to start there where it's useful and easy plus not so many questions to the devs for help19:29
henothanks to those who have added tracker info!19:30
pedro_oh there's a Debian one19:30
* pedro_ looks at liw19:30
* heno looks at liw too :)19:30
liwactually there _isn't_ a Debian one, as far as I can see :)19:31
henojust a stub link19:31
liwwriting one is already on my todo list19:31
henothanks :)  i know very little about the Debian BTS19:31
henoI'll have a go at OOo19:32
bdmurrayIsn't the Linking bit http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Watches ?19:32
henothe 'issue tracker'19:32
bdmurrayre OOo we are pretty divergent from upstream as I understand it19:32
henoyes, we should just link to that and not repeat it19:32
henobdmurray: yeah, I'll need to get calc's advice19:33
henoBugs/Watches looks very nice, btw19:33
bdmurrayWell, that's mostly due to ogasawara19:34
henolooks like a team effort on the get info page19:35
henoso once those are in  shape we can promote them a bit19:35
henonext -19:35
heno[TOPIC] QAPoll testing19:35
MootBotNew Topic:  QAPoll testing19:35
henonand, stgraber?19:36
stgraberok, so we updated QA-Poll and QA-Tracker yesterday and QA-Poll is now ready for a private beta19:36
henowhat the current URL?19:36
stgraberThe idea part being: http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/19:36
stgraberand the bug part: http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs/19:37
henolooks lovely with the artwork :)19:37
stgraberyes, and it's also full of JS :)19:38
henostgraber: are you happy with those URLs or should it be poll.qa.u.c/bugs ?19:38
stgraberso nand would like you to use it and report any usability issues, bugs, english problems, layout, feature, ...19:39
henoand .../ideas19:39
stgraberthat's the next point, we don't like the current URLs and would like to move to sub-domains19:39
henoI spoke with the sysadmins and we'd like to keep it under qa.u.c19:39
henoto avoid to much proliferation of domains19:40
stgraberok, that was nand's question19:40
stgraberso we'll have two sub-domains, one for the idea tracker and one for the bug part19:40
henopoll.qa.ubuntu.com/<poll-name> seems good, no?19:40
stgraberIIRC he sent you a mail about that, I'm not sure of the exact domains he had in mind19:41
bdmurraydavmor2: can you add information about your video card to bug 173130?  'lspci -vvnn' would be great19:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 173130 in xserver-xorg-video-nv "hardy 64bit live cd GFX issues" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17313019:41
stgraberheno: we can't do that with Drupal19:41
stgraberit'll have to be poll.qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas/idea/x19:41
henostgraber: yes I think he wanted something.ubuntu.com for each19:41
davmor2bdmurray: I got 3 different ones that it doesn't work on properly do you want them all?19:41
stgraberthough having two different sub-domains will let us default on the right module19:41
henostgraber: but we can do it with apache though right?19:42
stgraberheno: indeed, but we can also do it on qa.ubuntu.com, it would have been shorter and easier to remember on qa.ubuntu.com though19:42
henocan we do bugs.poll.qa.u.c ?19:42
stgraberheno: we would have to see how easy it's with the URL rewritting as Drupal is also using quite a lot of it and we don't want a conflict :)19:43
stgraberheno: that seems a bit hard to remember, no ?19:43
bdmurraydavmor2: yes19:43
henostgraber: right let's investigate and discuss on ubuntu-qa19:43
davmor2bdmurray: np19:43
stgrabernext point is the testing window and release date19:44
stgraberour current plan is to have it tested from after-Alpha4 (now) till after-Alpha519:44
henoshould we start filling up with semi-real data during testing?19:44
henoso we can launch with some real examples19:45
henostgraber: sounds good19:45
stgraberif no major bug have been reported, we'll upload the fix, test it for 1-2 extra days and send the anouncement19:45
davmor2heno: made more sense to me to do that than not19:45
stgraberI think that the DB will be wiped before making it public19:45
stgraberbut we can add some examples in the installation scripts so they are added the same time we make it public19:46
davmor2that's okay it can be added again :)19:46
henook, we should put in 2-3 real samples before launch though19:46
stgraberbut real examples even for testing are a good idea as it's the best way to find bugs :) (test with real data)19:46
henoI'll show this to the LP bugs team on Friday19:46
henoso, please test!19:47
stgrabera question I have is : How will we anounce it ?19:47
stgraberdo we have a good way to advertise it widely (!= blog post on the planet)19:47
henowe should coordinate a bit with the community team19:47
davmor2stgraber: with trumpets and fanfares of course19:47
henoI'll talk with marketing on Friday too; we might do a press release19:48
stgrabersounds good19:48
henoif they think it's appropriate19:48
henojust so we get the /. effect :)19:49
henoany other topics?19:49
stgraberyou'll have to warn the sysadmins too in this case :)19:49
henoour time is soon up19:49
davmor2stgraber: I think the more useful thing at first which will get real data in is let the bug team/other ubuntu dev mailing lists know, then move on to the real public.19:49
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Edubuntu Community Council meeting Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
MootBotMeeting finished at 19:51.19:51
henothanks everyone!19:51
henoand thanks ogasawara for doing the summary :)19:51
ogasawaraheno: np19:51
* liw goes back to meddling with hardware19:52
nixternalhola RichEd and ogra_cmpc!19:57
RichEdhi there nixternal19:57
RichEdyou can raise the edubuntu handbook stuff at the meeting ... or else sidebar if you want19:58
nixternaloh boy do I have some work, I mean questions, for you two :)19:58
RichEdbut open forum is better :)19:58
* RichEd closes his window19:58
nixternalwell, this is related to the Offical Ubuntu Book19:58
RichEd:) nixternal ... you can thank me for setting jono onto you19:58
nixternalactually, it could be fairly quite easy and may be best to communicate via email with it honestly19:59
nixternalRichEd: actually I got attacked by mako and the editor, which probably got it from jono :)19:59
* stgraber waves19:59
RichEdnixternal: get the issues on the table in the meeting, and we can go into details by email19:59
juliuxhey nixternal19:59
RichEdif we expose the "inner workings" of our documentation, perhaps some people may volunteer to help a bit20:00
nixternalhiya juliux20:00
RichEdLaserJock was bemoaning the lack of contributions last meeting20:00
nixternalman, I am in documentation overload :)20:00
RichEdhence let's see if there are any interested community members20:01
* RichEd was about to get a pre-meeting coffee when nixternal jumped on him20:01
RichEdback in 3 min ...20:01
RichEdogra: kick off with technical when you are ready20:01
nixternalthere are so many people who want to contribute, getting them interested in documentation though has proved difficult over the many years I have been doing it20:01
* ogra_cmpc joins the coffee effort20:01
ogra_cmpcsorry ...20:01
* nixternal pours in some more Dr. Pepper20:01
* RichEd ajusts his away status and looks around for ogra or even ogra_cmpc 20:05
ogra_cmpcthere we go20:06
ogra_cmpcnot much on my side ... i packaged up the new classmate scripts for hardy, started a skeleton package for edubuntu-content-server ...20:06
RichEdperhaps i should announce first that this is an official Edubuntu Community Council meeting ... and if anyone is here for approval, we'll do that after the tech stuff20:07
ogra_cmpcdid lots of bugfixes on ltp anhd work on consolekit integration of ldm20:07
* juliux notes that this is an historical edubuntu weekly meeting;)20:07
ogra_cmpcthe consolekit stuff is critical, without support for it no administrative apps will work at all on ltsp clients20:08
ogra_cmpcwell,n not much more has happened rec4ently on the tech side20:09
stgraberogra_cmpc: cmpc's keyboard is way too small it seems :)20:09
ogra_cmpci didnt use it for a while it always takes me a while to get used to it again20:09
ogra_cmpcstgraber: an update on italc FOR THE OTHERS ?20:10
ogra_cmpcsorry :)20:10
stgraberyes, so I worked a bit with italc's upstream and we had most bugs fixed20:10
stgraberhe'll release a new "official" tarball this week20:10
stgraberthe only remaining problem and not a small one is the demo mode20:10
stgraberwhich basically just crashes the client part of italc as soon as a teacher starts it20:11
stgraberitalc's upstream is currently having exams and then doesn't have time to investigate20:11
ogra_cmpcany news from QT upstream about that ?20:11
stgraberand my C++/QT knowledges are approching 0 so I can't really help at that20:11
stgraberQT upstream says that it's likely a software bug, so not their problem :) (different wording of course)20:12
stgraberso if any of you happens to have some knowledges of QT/C++, especially the QImage thing that seems to crash, please ping me :)20:13
stgraberwhat we have to decide anyway is what to do with iTalc, can we just disable the demo mode for the time being20:13
stgraberand eventually re-enable it if we happen to receive a patch in time for the release20:13
stgraberI don't think we want to have tcm for 3 more years, do we ?20:13
nixternalhave you asked Riddell to take a look at it? I could scower it, but he would know way more Qt than I would20:14
ogra_cmpcremind me tomorrow to ping \sh_away about it :) he loves to save people in desparate situations and knows C++ and QT :)20:14
stgrabernixternal: he told me to ask on #kde-devel, but as iTalc isn't a kde app but only QT one, I asked in some QT channels20:15
ogra_cmpcthe only prob i see is that it will prevent the MIR from being accepted if we have that bug .... beyond that its a bug and can be fixed after FF20:15
nixternalstgraber: roger that20:15
stgraberogra_cmpc: I also need a new version from upstream as I won't upload a pre-release to universe with main in mind (especially as the pre-release isn't published anywhere)20:16
ogra_cmpcstgraber: so what is the release upwstream wants to publish next week ?20:17
ogra_cmpca pre-release or something official ?20:17
stgrabersomething official including most of my patches + some extra bug fixes20:17
* stgraber is checking upstream website20:17
ogra_cmpcwell, lets get it in then ... we still have more than a month to fix that bug, that should suffice unless its something disastrously broken in the general design20:18
stgraberdoesn't seem like something big20:20
stgraberas it seems to work fine on some other distros20:20
ogra_cmpcthats my gut feeling as well20:21
ogra_cmpchmm, it does ?20:21
ogra_cmpcmight be our xorg or vnc implementation then20:21
stgraberyes, upstream hasn't been able to reproduce yet20:21
ogra_cmpchey johnny20:21
nixternalooh, a Maryland guy20:22
johnnywhat is a cmpc ?20:22
stgraberI had a quick look at QT's source code and it was full of 15/16/32bit graphic stuff20:22
ogra_cmpcjohnny: ClassmatePC20:22
stgraberso may be related to our xorg (vnc being included in italc's code)20:22
ogra_cmpchmm, can you force it to 16bit ?20:23
ogra_cmpcin the code20:23
ogra_cmpci bet that would help :)20:23
RichEdhi Pascal_120:24
ogra_cmpcanyway ... italc is waiting for next upstream, i'll try to catch \sh20:24
Pascal_1hi !!20:24
ogra_cmpcmore for tech ?20:24
RichEdPascal_1: f.y.i. meeting format is 1st session : tech (mostly related to development)20:24
ogra_cmpcbtw did anyone test the new ltsp setup on the ubuntu alternate cd ?20:25
RichEdthen next session : community / web sites / news ... mroe general discussion20:25
juliuxogra_cmpc, i plan to do that in the next daies20:25
ogra_cmpcah, great20:25
ogra_cmpci'd love to get feedback about the installer20:25
cliebowogra_cmpc, ill try it pretty quick here..20:26
ogra_cmpcthanks :)20:26
juliuxogra_cmpc, shoud we use a daily build?20:26
stgraberogra_cmpc: nope, I poked you about that but you weren't around20:26
stgraberogra_cmpc: so I didn't test edubuntu's Alpha4 (we were already short for testing ubuntu :))20:26
ogra_cmpcjuliux: i havent tested any dailiews since alpha420:26
juliuxok i will use alpha4;)20:27
stgraberogra_cmpc: do we now have a menu option on the alternate ?20:27
ogra_cmpci can say that alpha4 worked :) but thats all atm20:27
ogra_cmpcstgraber: not yet, cjwatson_ wants to redesign teh menu in general first20:27
ogra_cmpcif thats in order we'll have a menu option20:27
stgraberogra_cmpc: ok, I saw he sent a couple of change to gfxboot-theme-ubuntu yesterday (language selection, theme, ...)20:28
stgraberogra_cmpc: what's the extra parameter to start the ltsp part ?20:28
ogra_cmpcoh, i didnt notice ... i'll look at that20:28
ogra_cmpchit f6 and add ltsp-client-builder/run=true20:29
stgraberok, will give it a try today or tomorrow as I need to reinstall my test computer20:29
ogra_cmpci only test on virtualbox atm so there might be lots of cases with real hw i dont catch while testing, who knows20:30
nixternalogra_cmpc: any chance all of this stuff can be done by next week? I am approaching the official book deadline :p20:30
ogra_cmpcnixternal: i doubt that but i can ask20:30
juliuxogra_cmpc, i will test it on a transtec mini pc;)20:31
nixternalI would love to see Mr. Watson's face when you ask :)20:31
ogra_cmpcbetter not ... he's way to busy ....20:31
nixternalhey, for those of you testing LTSP from the alternate CD, could you do a mini write up of the steps you took to get it setup...that is of course if it has changed much since Feisty20:31
ogra_cmpc(its about time to think about PAs for our managers :P )20:31
nixternaland if possible, any screenshots in 1024x768 format :)20:32
ogra_cmpcnixternal: if you have two NICs ther is nothing to set up20:32
nixternalwell, I am going over the Edubuntu chapter int he book, and there is quite a bit of write up on setting up LTSp20:33
nixternaltis why I asked20:33
ogra_cmpctweaking != setup ;)20:33
ogra_cmpcltsp as is should work out of the box with any system with two NICs if you install from teh alternate CD20:34
stgraberas I'll be installing on real hardware it'll be hard to provide screenshots but I'll try to think about it next time I do it virtually20:34
nixternalOK, so all of the tweaks that are currently in the book are good to go, just need to add information about the alternate CD20:34
ogra_cmpcif you have on;ly one NIC it tells you what to do in the installer, thats probably woth a screenshot20:35
stgraberogra_cmpc: I'm installing with one so I usually trigger 90% of the bugs that way :)20:35
nixternalogra_cmpc: shoot, I just looked on my floor and seen a server doing absolutely nothing but looking sad...looks like I can setup LTSP here and play20:36
ogra_cmpcthe hints in teh book are actually for fine tuning ... usually if stuff doesnt work out of the box in a usable default setup we consider that a bug20:36
nixternalderrr me :)20:36
nixternalwell, I have LTSP and the Alternate CD covered...just have a few more things to ask about Edubuntu today for the book, but I will wait until it is my turn :)20:37
ogra_cmpcif you set up ltsp *after* installation on a normal ubuntu desktop box https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall applies20:38
ogra_cmpcanhd probably its worth a note that you need to install ubuntu-desktop if you want ltsp to run on a server installation20:39
nixternalgot it20:40
ogra_cmpcanything else for tech ?20:41
ogra_cmpcand where is highvoltage ??20:41
ogra_cmpche asked for an EC meeting and now we dont have quorum due to him missing in action :P20:41
ogra_cmpcif there is nothing else for tech ....20:42
* ogra_cmpc hands over the mic to RichEd20:42
nixternalogra_cmpc: any new apps for Edubuntu that can/should be hit on in the book?20:42
ogra_cmpcnixternal: not this time round ... apart from italc20:42
nixternalOK..I will put some italc info in there then20:43
ogra_cmpcbut we're not 100% sure it will make it zet20:43
nixternalOK..I will hold off20:43
nixternalwhat about artwork?20:43
RichEdwell let's move onto documentation: nixternal get all of your issues / requirements out so they get into the log20:43
nixternalstill looking the same?20:43
nixternalRichEd: groovy20:43
RichEdnixternal: wallpaper will change20:43
nixternalLTSP and Alternate CD have been covered20:43
nixternalwhen will the wallpaper change occur?20:43
ogra_cmpc.oO(why do you english guys have to flip y and z on kezboards... baah)20:44
nixternalI would like to possibly take some new screenshots for the book20:44
juliuxogra_cmpc, because the germans have äöü ;)20:44
juliuxogra_cmpc, and they want to sell more keyboards;)20:44
ogra_cmpcnow that sounds plausible !20:45
ogra_cmpcnixternal: we dont have any new artwork yet and its likely that we'll slip the deadline with the wallpaper20:45
ogra_cmpc(since thats a volunteer contribution)20:46
ogra_cmpcthe otrher artwork will follow ubuntu but have adjusted colors as usual20:46
ogra_cmpc(gdm, ldm usplash)20:47
nixternalOK...now if I got this right, Edubuntu is no longer a Live CD or install CD, it is just an addon to Ubuntu?20:47
nixternalthe CD that is20:47
nixternalso people should get Ubuntu first and then install Edubuntu off of the CD20:47
ogra_cmpcedubuntu-desktop (the metapackage) will just depend on ubuntu-desktop20:47
RichEdnixternal: let me give you some info on that ... hang on one sec20:48
nixternalRichEd: thanks20:48
RichEdnixternal: perhaps you should also introduce the byline we will be adopting for 8.04:20:48
RichEdEdubuntu 8.04 - Eubuntu Education Edition20:48
RichEdit would be very good if you could get that as a heading for the edubuntu chapter / section20:48
nixternalOK, that was actually my next question20:48
ogra_cmpcinstall ubuntu, pop in the addon cd and g-a-i will offer you to install additions20:48
juliuxhmm for linuxtag i have registred an edubuntu booth20:48
nixternalJordan and I spoke of that week after the last Edubuntu meeting because I seen you all talking about it20:48
nixternalso groovy20:48
juliuxshould i change that to ubuntu education?20:48
ogra_cmpcjuliux: fine for now20:48
RichEdhang on ...guys let me get the story across20:49
RichEdhere's the reasoning ... Edubuntu was it's own variant ... it's own build, install etc.20:49
ogra_cmpcthe branding will change over time, as RichEd will explain20:49
nixternalerr, Edubuntu Education Edition or Ubuntu Education Edition?20:49
RichEdnow it moves sensible to be an add-on ...20:49
* juliux loves edubuntu as a name;)20:49
ogra_cmpcnixternal: the latter indeed :)20:49
RichEdwe (education) will get a rock solid engine ... ubuntu ... and concentrate on the education layers on top of the ubuntu base20:50
RichEdLTSP moved into ubuntu20:50
nixternalOK, so that was a typo then by RichEd..just wanted to make sure before you seen it published incorrectly in the book :)20:50
RichEdso the base has what we need20:50
RichEdhence the move to an add-on CD installed on top of ubuntu20:50
RichEdand all support / dev issues below education go to the full ubuntu team20:51
RichEdand education specific stuff goes to ogra20:51
* highvoltage is here20:51
* juliux waves to highvoltage 20:51
ogra_cmpcyay even20:51
RichEdso seeing as we are no longer our own distro ... or install ... we're adding the byline:20:51
RichEdUbuntu Education Edition20:52
highvoltagehi juliux20:52
highvoltageI just had to help someone with car troubles, glad I still made it in time, did I?20:52
RichEdand as we move forwards, anyone can start with an ubuntu install, and then select optional education additions/enhancements straight from the CD20:52
juliuxRichEd, will the website,logo, also move or only the distribution name?20:52
RichEdso they could add edu apps, but not the desktop20:53
ogra_cmpchighvoltage: you missed tech completely ... shame on you ... stand in the corner and wear that funny hat :P20:53
RichEdso to wind up, and answer the edubuntu brand questions :)20:53
ogra_cmpchighvoltage: indeed you did :)20:53
RichEd- if the users installs ubuntu20:53
RichEd- and then takes the education add on cd and selects the bundle "edubuntu"20:54
* highvoltage puts on the funny hat20:54
RichEdit will install our full end config, apps, wallpaper, icons etc.20:54
RichEdso edubuntu will remain as the name of the full bundled solution20:54
highvoltageah cool, so they would still end up with a recognisable "edu" desktop20:54
RichEd^ does that all make sense ... nixternal .. highvoltage ... others ?20:55
nixternalRichEd: most definitely does...you don't know how greatful I am for that explanation20:55
RichEdhighvoltage: yes, think of edubuntu as the school install20:55
ogra_cmpcedubuntu-desktop wont go away as metapackage20:55
nixternalyou just hit every question I had on the head with it20:55
highvoltagewell, I understand it. I'm not sure if that qualifies as making sense. I'd have to say yes.20:55
highvoltageRichEd: I think upon release, there might be lots of noise about this, and possibly some fears20:56
RichEdbut if me as a daddy at home wants to add the full (selected & supported & maintained) suite of edu apps for my kids to use ... i'd probably do just that, and leave my ubuntu look & feel20:56
nixternalat least I have something to go back to the publisher with now and make up some plans on moving forward these next couple of days20:56
ogra_cmpcnixternal: we might not call the addon cd edubuntu anymore next release though ....20:56
highvoltageRichEd: I think everyone will have to pitch in a bit to avoid confusion20:56
RichEdhighvoltage: so we will not *change* the name20:56
ogra_cmpcbut even then the edubuntu package set will persist20:56
nixternalogra_cmpc: I will worry about hardy+1 if and when they ask me to update the book again :)20:56
highvoltageRichEd: and to emphasise that this will not be a regression for Edubuntu, but a change that will allow Edubuntu to accelerate in its goals20:56
ogra_cmpcit gives us an immense amount of spare CD space20:57
ogra_cmpc(even though the current situation might not look like that :) )20:57
highvoltageyes, that is awesome!20:57
* mathiaz waves at ogra_cmpc 20:57
highvoltagewhy? is it currently padded with lanugage packs?20:57
ogra_cmpcbut we have 90 langpacks eating up our space atm20:58
ogra_cmpchey mathiaz20:58
RichEdhere's the suggested name migration route:20:58
RichEdEdubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu Education Edition20:58
RichEdUbuntu Education Edition 8.10 - Edubuntu20:58
* ogra_cmpc is still for replacing "Edition" with "Enhancements" :)20:59
RichEdthink of this benefit to us ... by 8.10 *any* ubuntu user will be able to select a simple option from the default desktop saying ... add Ubuntu Education Components20:59
RichEdthey could then choose: edubuntu bundle20:59
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
ogra_cmpci think there is a server team now ...20:59
ogra_cmpcwe need to move i guess20:59
RichEdor any components thereof20:59
ogra_cmpcserver team meeting21:00
stgraberhmm, our meetings are only 1hour long now ? :)21:00
highvoltageRichEd: have you seen http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=2053 ?21:00
RichEdis there one ? nothing on the fridge for tonight21:00
ogra_cmpcstgraber: one in a month is21:00
mathiazRichEd: the fridge is broken every start of the month21:00
* RichEd loads the link21:00
juliuxRichEd, i am fine with everything as long we keep the name edubuntu a live21:01
ogra_cmpcalive ?21:01
akincerStarting soon?21:01
mathiazakincer: couple of minutes. Just give some time to the edubuntu team to finish off their meeting21:02
ogra_cmpcok, seems we should make room then, i didnt know there is the server meeting *today* actually ...21:02
RichEdjuliux: certainly ... edubuntu has a history and champions ... emotional value ... user recognition ... reviewer blogs ... distro history21:02
RichEdno one will drop all of that in any way21:02
RichEdogra_cmpc: do we need to move ?21:02
ogra_cmpcRichEd: well, it would be polite i guess21:02
RichEd=== is there a server team meeting waiting ===21:03
mathiazRichEd: yes21:03
nijabaHey yo can stay if you want :)21:03
juliuxok lets move;)21:03
RichEdokay .., sorry for the overrun ... edubuntu people back in your channel !21:03
highvoltagesorry for being late, I'll carry an IRC device next time I have to run out!21:03
ogra_cmpcnijaba: double meeting in one room ?21:03
akincersorry, I just buzzed over from other things21:03
ogra_cmpcwow, nice challenge21:03
nijabanope, but I thnk with sometime have things in common...21:03
sorenIt sure would be nice if the fridge could get updated so ubotu could do the /topic thing to let you guys know that it's time to leave :)21:03
* RichEd moves back to #edubuntu21:04
* ogra_cmpc moves back to #edubuntu as well and points others there21:04
* nijaba waves at ogra_cmpc RichEd21:04
faulkes-alright, I think we can call the meeting to order, etc..21:04
* mathiaz thanks ogra_cmpc and RichEd and waves at the edubuntu team :)21:05
* RichEd waves back on his way out21:05
mathiazall right server team - let's get things started21:05
MootBotMeeting started at 21:06. The chair is mathiaz.21:06
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:06
mathiazSo the agenda for today is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting21:06
mathiazakincer: are you around for some time ?21:06
akincerFor at least an hour21:06
akincermore if need be21:06
mathiazakincer: ok.21:06
mathiaz[TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.21:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.21:07
=== PriceChild is now known as pricey
mathiazI talked with dholbach about the mentoring program21:07
mathiazI was about to send an email to ubuntu-server with a proposal but it didn't reach the top of my todo list yet.21:08
mathiazI've got some ideas and will write down a proposal taking into account suggestion made by ScottK2, dholbach and other during the last meeting.21:09
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the mentoring program proposal to ubuntu-server21:09
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email about the mentoring program proposal to ubuntu-server21:09
mathiazI think all the other actions have been done21:10
ScottKI need to follow up on mine21:10
mathiazand their results should be discussed during this meeting21:10
ScottKOK.  I can do it later21:11
mathiaz[TOPIC] Bacula package inclusion/exclusion21:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Bacula package inclusion/exclusion21:11
mathiazSo zul sent an email to ubuntu-server about bacula.21:11
mathiazzul: could you give a short list of the reason of the rejection ?21:11
zulsure basically there a couple of reasons21:12
zul1. there were alot of unanswered bug reports from debian21:12
zul2. there were a couple of security updates that never got addressed by the debian maintainer until recently21:12
zul3. the number of depends it has in universe21:13
akincerBy couple, do you mean few?21:14
zulto adress point #2 more in detail basically bacula uses the mysql passwords on the command line for processing data etc21:14
akincerCouldn't resist :)21:14
nijabaAaron in ML: "isn't this a problem if and only if default and less secure (or bad) configurations are used and/or the database server powering Bacula is a shared system with non-trusted users?21:14
mathiazjust to make things clear, the subject of this rejection is *not* to drop bacula from the ubuntu archive.21:14
mathiazbacula will still be available for ubuntu users.21:15
akincerAnd my understanding is, and someone interject if it is flawed is that you only need to create a .my.cnf file to address the security issue. Couldn't be much simpler21:15
jdstrandzul: how are those passwords sent-- shell script?21:15
zuljdstrand: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=446809 for more detail21:15
ubotuDebian bug 446809 in bacula-director-mysql "CVE-2007-5626 unauthorized disclosure of information via clear-text passwords used in command line arguments" [Important,Open]21:15
dendrobatesare passwords on the command line required?21:15
ivoksi think that can be overriden with better packaging21:16
ivoksas someone said .my.cnf21:16
akincerSince this is, in effect, an issue with how external programs interface with Mysql and not a product of Bacula itself, one need only read up on Mysql security to know that21:16
jdstrandzul: thanks21:16
mathiazzul: IIUC the default installation of bacula would use clear text password21:17
zulcorrect AFAIK21:17
dvlmathiaz: only for database backup, not for anything else.21:17
mathiazzul: so to address the security concern, the bacula package should be modified to use a different way to handle passowrd.21:17
nijabais it dues to packaging or to logic?21:17
mathiaznijaba: it's a packaging issue.21:17
nijabacan we fix it?21:17
ivokscause mysql knows about my.cnf21:17
ivoksso, why not use it?21:18
akincerSeems perfectly logical and prudent21:18
ivoksmaybe generate random password, put it in bacula's home and that's it21:18
nijababut in any case that leave 2 & 3.  Would they be enough all by themselves21:18
zulbasically Im looking at ways to do that21:18
mathiazzul: great.21:18
mathiazso about point 221:19
mathiazah no point 2 is the security issue21:19
nijabaerr, meant 1 & 321:19
mathiazpoint 1 is debian maintainer not responsive21:19
dvlany other option to relying upon debian packages?21:19
mathiazzul: is the maintainer opened to ubuntu cooperation ?21:20
akincerI am not in a position to address that, is anyone else?21:20
ScottK2Unless someone on the team is willing to step up and really focus on this package.21:20
zulmathiaz: yes he is21:20
nijabazul: so in what isn't he responsive?21:20
jdstrand1 and 2 are linked really21:20
zulhowever since the package is in universe there hasnt been alot of interactioin between him and ubuntu developers21:20
dendrobatesregardless, it is unlikely that this will be worked out by FF.21:20
akincerIf I may, I believe it would be worth it. There are some very attractive features Bacula has that just work21:21
jdstrandit sounds like if we wanted it, it would have to basically be maintained by ubuntu until the dm became more active21:21
mathiaza side question: Does MIR report need to be accepted before FF ?21:21
mathiazjdstrand: I don't think that the DM is not inactive.21:22
dendrobatesI believe so, but an exception can be requested.21:22
=== pricey is now known as PriceChild
mathiazIt's just that the way he works doesn't necessarly fit the ubuntu workflow.21:22
mathiazHe tends to work on bugs by batch, every few months.21:22
* jdstrand equated lots of unanswered bug reports and slow security response with not super active, but doesn't know the dm of the package..21:23
jdstrand(or the package)21:23
mathiazA point I'd like to add wrt to 1 is that bacula may be a good solution - so it may be worth taking some responsbility in maintaining the package21:23
nijabamathiaz: for 5 years?21:24
mathiaznijaba: it's that - or no solution at all21:24
akincermathiaz: I'm an IT Manager and I can tell you that for me, it's worth it21:24
nijabaakincer: thanks for this...  very valuable21:24
mathiaznijaba: If we want to support tape backup, I don't see another package (except amanda)21:24
ivokswell, does anyone does any serious backup without bacula? :)21:25
mathiazI've used both amanda and bacula and I was very satisfied with bacula21:25
nijabawhat about mondo? Have not had time to look...21:25
akincerbacula does tapes just fine21:25
zulivoks: alot of people do21:25
mathiaznijaba: I'm not sure that mondo supports tape21:25
mathiazzul: well - you can always write you own script with tar21:26
dendrobateslarge shops will almost always use commercial products.21:26
mathiazBut I think that bacula is a good solution if we want to support tapes.21:26
zulmathiaz: that could work ;)21:26
nijabadendrobates: non FOSS oriented one, yes.21:26
akincermathiaz: Nice until someone asks for a file whose name they don't quite remember nor what folder it's in21:26
dendrobatesyes.  Legato and such21:27
sorendendrobates: If they do so because they want to, fine. If they do it because we can't provide them with a free alternative, that makes me cry :(21:27
nijabasoren: thanks :)21:27
mathiazakincer: you refer to tar scripts, right ?21:27
sorendendrobates: I see what you're saying, but if we want to change that...21:27
tjaaltonbacula seems very interesting.. saying this as one who has purchased netvault years ago :)21:27
tjaaltoncommercial ones are very expensive21:28
dendrobatesI'm not saying we don't need a F/OSS backup solution21:28
nijabaI beleive we need both anyway, in the end21:28
mathiazso to keep things moving, what about point 3 - number of depends in universe21:28
mathiazzul: what's the list ?21:28
zulmathiaz: at least 621:29
akincerI have yet to find a compelling reason to use a commercial backup package over Bacula and I've worked with several21:29
mathiazzul: or at least an overview21:29
zuldbconfig qwt libraries wdwidgets sqllite sqllite321:29
zulthese are the direct ones21:29
zulmtx is already in main21:30
ivoksoh, sorry21:30
mathiazakincer: agreed. My point is that point 1 could be addressed as - bacula is a good backup solution so it's worth investing time to support it and cooperate with debian.21:30
sorenzul: sqlite3 shouldbe in main, too.21:30
nijabais sqllite a hard requirement or an option?21:30
akincermathiaz: Gotcha. I figured the big issue would be deps anyway21:30
mathiaznijaba: it's an option.21:30
sorenOh, it's not.21:30
dvlsqlite is used by default if you do not select one of MySQL/PostgreSQL21:31
sorenAh, the source package is.21:31
mathiazyou need a database to run bacula - and you can use mysql, postgresql or sqlite21:31
nijabaso if it is an option, agin it is a packaging issue21:31
dendrobatesIf we feel that this is that important, zul could work on this and we can get an exception to get it in after FF.21:31
mathiaznijaba: yes. dependencies are mostly packaging issues.21:31
dvlQWT is only required for the GUI part of Bacula, BAT21:31
mathiazdvl: yes.21:31
mathiazso the GUI portion could stay in universe.21:32
dvlfull disclosure, I'm a Bacula developer.21:32
mathiazI've never used it21:32
akincerand as I understand it, you can do that part on the desktop separate anyway21:32
akincerBAT rocks21:32
mathiazzul: wdwidgets ?21:33
dendrobatesdvl: are you the debian mainrtainer21:33
dvldendrobates: no21:33
akincerfull disclosure: I invited him to make sure I didn't say something untrue21:33
zulmathiaz: wxwidgets2.621:33
mathiazzul: ok - that's also part of the GUI then.21:33
mathiazzul: but it may be needed to build the package.21:33
zulwe need to look at it more closely21:34
mathiazzul: yes21:34
ScottKYou may have to split the source package then.  I'm pretty sure you don't want wxwidgets in Main.21:34
dendrobatesdvl: you were included on the mail exchange though.  What is upstreams opinion here?21:34
mathiazand for dbconfig, it should be dropped.21:34
dvldendrobates: I was on that email.21:34
dvldendrobates: Upsteam opinion: we're keen to work with Ubuntu, we have lots of Ubuntu users and if there's anything I can do to push/prod/poke people to do stuff, let me know.  Not sure if that's the type of opinion you were asking for.21:35
mathiazSo it seems that point 3 could be adressed by doing some packaging work.21:35
mathiazdvl: it's always good to have upstream opinions.21:36
nijabaanyone up for it?21:36
mathiazjdstrand: do you have any question wrt to security/support for 5 years from upstream ?21:36
dendrobatesdvl: that is the one.  I wanted to know if you were willing to work with us to ensure our concerns are aleviated.21:36
dvlmathiaz: If there are specific things you want an opinion on, ask me a direct question.  :)21:36
jdstrandmathiaz: I have not reviewed the package21:36
mathiazjdstrand: I meant more about general policy21:37
zulnijaba: i guess that would be me21:37
dvldendrobates: Yep, if anyone from ubuntu wants to email me directly, I can raise the issues with the rest of the Bacula team.  We're an easy going lot.21:37
jdstrandI do have concerns about the debian maintainer not being particularly active, but interms of security updates, as long as upstream is responsive, then things should be ok21:37
akincerI would also add that I have yet to go to #bacula with a question that wasn't answered pretty quickly21:37
mathiazdvl: how long do you tend to support an existing version ?21:37
dvljdstrand: Bugs in Bacula, whether security or not, are handled pretty quickly.21:38
nijabaand how long for a given version?21:38
dvlmathiaz: We started back porting bugs some time ago, but we prefer people to upgrade if they can.21:38
dvlnijaba: no specific time period.21:38
nijabadvl: until next version or later?21:38
dvlnijaba: later.21:39
tjaaltondvl: what about running different versions on the network, like having an older server and clients with a newer bacula21:39
jdstranddvl: your bug tracking requires an account to view?21:39
dvltjaalton: policy is that older clients should always work with newer servers21:39
ralfgrTo view bug reports, you can log in as anonymous/anonymous.21:39
tjaaltondvl: but not the other way around?21:39
dvljdstrand: anonymous/anonymous works21:39
jdstranddvl: :)21:40
dvltjaalton: a newer server will work with an older client so long as the server does not use the newer feature. This is under control of the sysadmin.21:40
tjaaltondvl: I mean a newer client with an older server :)21:40
dvltjaalton: Noted.  Same issue.21:40
dvltjaalton: It'll work.21:41
tjaaltonok, cool21:41
mathiazOk. So to summarize21:41
mathiazit seems that the main problems are packaging issues21:41
dvltjaalton: what does not work is using a newer server with an older client and expecting the older client to understand new features.21:41
mathiazrather than an architectural or logic problem.21:41
ivokswhen is FF?21:42
nijabaFeb 1421:42
nijabaValentine's day :)21:42
faulkes-excuse the question, FF?21:42
nijabaFeature Freeze21:42
zulFF = feature freeze21:42
* faulkes- nods21:42
tjaaltondvl: that's understandable, I was just concerned that the server usually run an older version so what would happen there21:42
dendrobatesmathiaz: we need to ensure that security fixes will be backported for a long enough time.21:42
mathiazdendrobates: right.21:43
jdstranddendrobates, mathiaz: fwiw, there have been 2 CVEs-- one is the command line password21:43
akincerSurely this can be arranged21:43
dendrobateslast FF was my wifes birthday, she is going to think I'm making excuses.21:43
dvltjaalton: usually it is the server that is upgraded more often than the client. My server is 2.2.8, my windows client is 2.0.3...21:43
ivoksjdstrand: that last one we can eliminate...21:44
jdstrandivoks: exactly21:44
mathiazso any action on this ?21:44
akincerdendrobates: That's why you arrange to celebrate on a different day without giving this as the reason :)21:44
ivoksi'll work on bacula tonight21:44
mathiazsomeone needs to look at the packaging issues21:44
* soren hugs ivoks 21:44
ivoksand try to fix couple of packaging bugs21:44
dvlivoks: contact me here if you need anything21:44
ivoksincluding that mysql one21:44
dvlor dan@langille.org21:44
dendrobatesivoks: isn't it already night for you?21:45
tjaaltondvl: heh21:45
ivoksdendrobates: yeah, and i have exam tomorrow... but FF is to close21:45
mathiaz[ACTION] ivoks to look into bacula packaging issue to get it into good shape for main21:45
MootBotACTION received:  ivoks to look into bacula packaging issue to get it into good shape for main21:45
dvltjaalton: server upgrade is just one box... people tend to lag on upgrading clients.21:45
jdstrandthe other one was patched in 13 days of discovery (insecure temp files)21:45
ivoksdvl: ack21:45
mathiazivoks: I think bacula needs to be merge from debian.21:45
zulit does 2.2.8 is sitting there since the end of january21:46
mathiazivoks: so you could try to address the mentionned issue while doing the merge21:46
ivoksmathiaz: i'll take a good look at it21:46
mathiazivoks: great ! thanks21:46
ScottKivoks: I'd also look to splitting the client and server into two source packages to minimize the number of build depends you need to drag into Main.21:46
* nijaba hugs ivoks21:46
mathiazLet's move on.21:47
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu Developer Week21:47
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Developer Week21:47
* dendrobates gives ivoks permission to fail his exam.21:47
sorenOk go.21:47
akincerThanks for the time everyone. I have to go do some work now21:47
ivoksdendrobates: woho! :)21:47
mathiazAs you may know, there will be a Ubuntu Developer Week soon.21:47
mathiazthanks akincer21:47
nijabathanks to the bacula guys :)21:48
mathiazso the question is whether we want to have a session specific to the server team21:48
mathiazif so, what would be the content ?21:48
nijabawhen is it?21:48
mathiazthe current schedule is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep21:48
mathiaz18/02 to 22/0221:49
akincermathiaz: You're welcome21:49
mathiazI wouldn't mind running a session, but I'd like to have some input on what I can talk about.21:50
nijabasoren: would a virtualization class be a good topic for devs?21:50
sorennijaba: I hope so. I scheduled one.21:50
mathiazI don't think the topic should be about packaging server application.21:50
faulkes-well, from a content view, I'd have to ask, how familiar are people with the server side of ubuntu21:51
sommermathiaz: how about upcoming features?21:51
sorennijaba: dendrobates promised he'd help me come up with stuff to talk about.21:51
ivoksmaybe one about ubuntu-server in general?21:51
ivokswe need some publicity :)21:51
zulmathiaz: how about an intro to the server team21:51
nijabasoren: I can second him on this21:51
faulkes-that was my thinking21:51
mathiazivoks: right.21:51
dendrobatesone on security would be nice.21:51
mathiazabout feature, I don't think it's relevant as the target audience is about potential contributors21:51
mathiazit's not about users.21:52
sommerah, good call21:52
mathiazso presenting new features is not really the point.21:52
mathiazunless to get people on board for testing.21:52
faulkes-well, intro to ubuntu-server, goals/objectives, team members, etc21:52
nijabawhat about one on OpenLDAP 2.4?21:52
mathiazsoren: what do you plan to talk about during your virtualization session ?21:53
ivoksi suggest an insight in how development is done, where we need help, what are we good... it would be great if all of us could come...21:53
mathiaznijaba: you mean - using it ?21:53
sorenDon't know.21:53
soren22:51:15 < soren> nijaba: dendrobates promised he'd help me come up with stuff to talk about.21:53
mathiazsoren: what about using the new virtualization stuff in hardy in your developement work ?21:53
dendrobatesI think we need kvm testers, so one thing would be a kvm tutorial using libvirt and virtio.21:53
boredandbloggingsomeone email me when plans are finalized so I can put it in the UWN21:54
mathiazsoren: how to use different vm to have different distro ready to use21:54
sorenThat could work.21:54
mathiazsoren: for bug triaging, feature development and package testing.21:54
nijabawe need some test on ubuntu-vm-builder as well :)21:54
sorenLet's discuss this after the meeting. We don't want to reveal all of it now.21:54
sorenNoone will show up.21:54
dendrobatesboredandblogging: you want to know what our topics are?21:55
boredandbloggingdendrobates: looking at the prep wiki page, just a paragraph summary on the purpose and who should attend would be great21:55
nxvl_workoh crap i forgot the meeting21:56
mathiazboredandblogging: you man wanna ask dholbach about this21:56
mathiazboredandblogging: he is the grand master of ceremony for the whole week21:56
dendrobatesguys, I have to go.21:57
ivoksdendrobates: take care21:57
* mathiaz waves at dendrobates 21:57
sorendendrobates: o/21:57
dendrobatesOk, sæt i gang!21:57
faulkes-mathiaz: how comfortable do you feel with ivoks suggested topics, I think they are fairly good ones to address21:58
faulkes-both from a presentation pov but also a bit of publicity to get others involved21:58
mathiazfaulkes-: yes - A general introduction to the server team21:58
mathiazthe whole point of the week is to get more people onboard.21:59
ivoksso don't give talks about stuff we did21:59
ivoksbut about stuff we need and didn't do21:59
mathiazSo my initial thoughts was to go over the GettingInvolved and Roadmpa pages and answer question21:59
boredandbloggingmathiaz: sure, I'll email dholbach22:00
mathiazAnd maybe by that time, we'll have something for mentoring.22:00
nxvl_worki think it would be a great place to introduce the mentoring program, if we have one planed by the date22:01
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz will schedule a general session about ubuntu-server during the Ubuntu Developer week.22:01
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz will schedule a general session about ubuntu-server during the Ubuntu Developer week.22:01
nijabathanks for taking care of it mathiaz22:01
mathiaz[TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.22:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.22:02
faulkes-I'm more than happy to review material you want to present, as a new person to the group, I can probably give some good suggestions on what you write up22:02
faulkes-mathiaz: if that's of interest to you prior to your presentation22:02
mathiazfaulkes-: excellent. I'll ping you somehow.22:02
mathiazfaulkes-: I was about to ask you about the mentoring program also - but that's for later.22:02
mathiazOn the apache front,22:03
mathiazapache 2.2.8 has been synced from debian.22:03
mathiazI talked to slangasek about building openssl with tlsext enabled. It's seems to need some work22:04
mathiazand needs to be coordinated with debian.22:04
mathiazso I'm not sure we'll get it done before FF22:04
nijabatood bad for SNI :(22:04
mathiazwithout it, SNI cannot be enabled in apache2.22:05
mathiazso I think we'll have to defer SNI support for apache2 to the next release.22:05
mathiazthere are around 490 packages that would need to be rebuilt we need to transition openssl22:06
soren...if we bump the soname.22:07
mathiazivoks: state of SASL ?22:07
mathiazsoren: right. There are some disscussion whether this is required or not.22:07
ivoksmathiaz: i got feedbeck from lamont22:07
ivoksmathiaz: i suggest we wrap it up and patch the tasksel22:07
mathiazsoren: but I don't think we'll have time before FF22:07
ivoksmathiaz: i don't recommend patching postfix's init script22:08
sorenmathiaz: I would even say that I'm quite sure we won't have time before FF.22:08
mathiazivoks: so we'd use a postinst script in the mail server task in tasksel.22:09
ivoksmathiaz: right22:09
mathiazivoks: do you have something ready for this ?22:09
MootBotLINK received:  http://launchpadlibrarian.net/10629598/tasksel.diff22:09
ivoksit's maybe old22:09
ivoksbut basicaly, that's it22:09
ivokschanges include postfix with sasl over dovecot, maildir and tweaked dovecot and postfix for better compatibility22:11
lamont(sounds right)22:11
mathiazivoks: great. Have you checked wether the patch applies to the current version of tasksel ?22:12
ivoksmathiaz: no, i'll do that tonight22:12
ivokscould someone apply it before it gets outdated again? :D22:12
mathiazivoks: great. Could you attach the new patch to the bug and subscribe u-main-sponsor ?22:12
mathiazivoks: well - it will to get in before FF, which is one week22:13
mathiaz[ACTION]: ivoks to update the tasksel patch for SASL support22:13
MootBotACTION received: : ivoks to update the tasksel patch for SASL support22:13
mathiazScottK: how far is libdb4.2 from being dropped from the archive ?22:14
ScottKHi even22:15
ScottKIt's not.22:15
ScottKopenldap still needs it22:15
ScottKIt's looking more like Hardy +1.22:15
ScottK4.3, 4.4, and maybe 4.5 are reasonable targets.22:16
mathiazScottK: right - it's blocked on openldap working with db4.6.22:16
ScottKSo I'm going to update the wiki page to look at those instead.22:16
mathiazScottK: excellent !22:16
ScottKThe other blocker I've run into is libdb4.x-ruby22:16
ScottKThe upstream for that only supports up to 4.4.22:16
ScottKI've uploaded a libdb4.6-ruby which is in bin new right now.22:17
mathiaz[ACTION] ScottK to update the Roadmap to list db4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 as targets for archive removal.22:17
MootBotACTION received:  ScottK to update the Roadmap to list db4.3, 4.4 and 4.5 as targets for archive removal.22:17
ScottKIt works in my testing equivalently to 4.3/4.4 except transactions.22:17
mathiazScottK: so 4.3 and 4.5 are good candidates ?22:17
ScottKAnd 4.422:17
ScottKI haven't done a detailed analysis yet of all of them 4.3 looks totally doable.22:18
mathiazScottK: ah ok. Understood.22:18
mathiazScottK: how does this play with FF ?22:18
ScottKI don't think it does.22:18
mathiazScottK: great. So work on this can be done after FF.22:19
mathiazScottK: great ! Thanks for the update.22:19
ScottKFor the Ruby situation, my thought is we keep libdb4.2-ruby and libdb4.6.  If anything pops up needing transaction support, they can use the 4.2 one.22:19
ScottKHopefully upstream will get sorted for hardy +1 so the 4.2 ruby lib can go away then too.22:20
mathiazsommer: how is the domentation doing ?22:20
sommermathiaz: pretty much the same as before22:21
sommernew upgrading subsection :)22:21
mathiazsommer: great. How are you affected by FF ?22:22
sommermay need to get exceptions for the virtualization section, likewise-open integration, and bacula22:22
sommerI wouldn't think that would bee too much of an issue22:23
sommerI'll email the doc ml and see what the think22:23
mathiazsommer: so there is the same kind of freeze on documentation starting from next thursday ?22:23
sommermathiaz: yep22:23
mathiazsommer: ok. good.22:23
nijabasommer: isn't your milestone string freeze?22:23
sommermajor new sections anyway22:24
sommernijaba: mathew east proposed the new freeze schedule to help conentrate on qa22:24
nijabasommer: thanks22:24
mathiazsoren: any update on the virtualization front ?22:25
sommerhere are some more details: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam/ReleaseSchedule22:25
sorenYeah, I think I've managed to work out the last dependency I need for it to really shine.22:25
sorenNow it just needs to land in the repository so I can start using it.22:26
sorenNamely a usable version of dnsmasq and netcat.22:26
sorenThe former for providing DNS and DHCP services to virtual networks (yay), and the latter to enable qemu+ssh:// type URL's for libvirt. *Very* handy.22:26
ivoksvery nice!22:27
mathiazsoren: seems great. And all should get in before FF ?22:27
sorenmathiaz: All should get in before I stop working tomorrow.22:27
mathiazsoren: once it's in there, virtualization should be feature complete for hardy.22:28
nijabaubuntu-vm-builder is feature complete on my side.  I've checked in a new version to allow complex partitioning.22:28
mathiaznijaba: awesome.22:28
sorenmathiaz: Great!22:29
nijabaI hope soren can find 1 day to integrate before FF22:29
mathiazSeems like all of the virtualization stuff is ready for more widespread testing22:29
mathiazwhich other channels can we use to ask for more testing ?22:29
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 07 Feb 16:00 UTC: Fridge Editors | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
sorenPlanet ubuntu usually does the trick.22:30
mathiazwe've published something in UWN22:30
nijabaWe need VMWare ESX testers22:30
mathiazsoren: may you could post another blog entry to make it on planet ubuntu ?22:30
sorenmathiaz: That's what I meant :)22:31
mathiazsoren: ahh. I thought you were refering to your previous post.22:31
sorenOh. No :)22:31
mathiazsoren: And I think that your session during Ubuntu Dev Week can also be used to adverstise more testing.22:32
tjaaltonnijaba: you mean installing on an ESX virtual machine?22:32
nijabatjaalton: yes22:32
mathiazsoren: and making sure that the release notes have a section about it.22:33
sorenYes, that has been neglected :(22:33
tjaaltonok, we have maybe 80 hosts running on ESX (mostly RHEL, Win), and I have a couple of hosts with dapper.. could try hardy now22:33
nijabatjaalton: would be very kind of you22:34
tjaaltonit's been on my list anyway22:34
nijabatjaalton: specially JeOS22:35
mathiaz[ACTION] tjaalton to test hardy on vmware ESX22:36
MootBotACTION received:  tjaalton to test hardy on vmware ESX22:36
ivoksnow you have to do it :D22:36
mathiaznext topic: windows integration22:36
* nijaba needs to run. Thanks a lot everyone22:36
tjaaltonaww jeez22:36
sorenYeah, you don't want to mess with MootBot.22:37
sorennijaba: See you tomorrow.22:37
ivoksnijaba: bye22:37
mathiazdendrobates has been packaging it22:37
mathiazzul and I've started to review it22:37
* nijaba waves 22:37
sommerlater nijaba22:37
ivoksmathiaz: is it good? :)22:37
mathiazso it should be uploaded real soon now.22:37
* mathiaz waves back at nijaba 22:37
mathiazivoks: so far yes.22:38
mathiazivoks: but I still need to get it tested in windows environment.22:38
mathiazso I think that's all for the Roadmpa.22:39
ivoksone more thing22:39
ivoksraid-lvm integration22:39
mathiazivoks: yes. it's still on there.22:39
ivoksas you can see, i didn't do a thing about it22:39
mathiazivoks: right - you've been busy with other things22:39
ivoksbut i do know there is a package in universe22:40
ivoksso it should get into main, and then only thing needed is a recipe22:40
mathiazivoks: so the next step would be to write a MIR22:40
ivoksso if someone know partman recipes, please... *help* :)22:40
mathiazivoks: could you update the roadmap to add a list of things to needs to be done ?22:41
tjaaltonivoks: has the recipe format changed? IIRC it has been totally different from the normal format22:41
ivoksmathiaz: sure22:41
ivokstjaalton: i didn't even know there's a 'normal format' :)22:42
tjaaltonivoks: ok :)22:42
jdstrandI'll also mention that I wrote the MIR for ufw today22:42
mathiaz[ACTION] ivoks to update the Roadmap wrt the RAID1-LVM installation22:42
MootBotACTION received:  ivoks to update the Roadmap wrt the RAID1-LVM installation22:42
ivoksuf... so many actions...22:42
mathiazjdstrand: have you received more feedback about ufw ?22:43
jdstrandcouple of small things that I fixed22:43
jdstrandand I also finished ipv622:43
jdstrandfeedback so far has been positive22:44
mathiazjdstrand: great ! So that another feature almost completed for hardy.22:44
jdstrandit should work well-- I find it quite easy to use :)22:44
ivoksthere are rumors we'll have to go with ipv6 by the end of 201222:44
mathiazjdstrand: well... you wrote it - I hope so22:45
ivoksis hardy ready for that?22:45
jdstrandivoks: in terms of firewalling, yes22:45
ivoksi meant more generally...22:45
mathiazivoks: well - that's a rather broad question.22:46
jdstrand(I figured, I was just being silly)22:46
mathiazivoks: the kernel should support it.22:46
sorenivoks: I've never used it, but I'm also not aware of anything in particular blocking it?22:46
jdstrandit does22:46
mathiazivoks: but I'm sure that are some application that are not22:46
ivoksi know that kernel does support it, but as mathiaz said, some apps don't22:46
jdstrandI am pretty sure all our server apps do22:47
sorenIIRC fabbione has been caring for ipv6 since the very beginning.22:47
ivokswell, we can fix them during the release...22:47
jdstrand(ie the ones on the server cd and tasksel)22:47
ivoksthen just ignore me :D22:48
mathiaz[TOPIC] Any Other Business22:48
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business22:48
mathiazsomeone wants to add something ?22:48
ScottK2Debian servers support IPv6 well, so we should be in good shape.22:48
tjaaltonwell, what about the patch for libpam-ldap?-)22:49
ScottK2mathiaz: MIR processing seems to have stalled.22:49
mathiazScottK2: pitti said he should start doing it next week22:49
=== calc_ is now known as calc
ivokszul: could you please tell me the state of drbd in hardy?22:49
ivokszul: as a kernel module22:49
mathiazivoks: it's integrated in linux-ubuntu-modules22:50
ScottK2mathiaz: OK.  I'm a little worried about the state of tasksel and FF.  We still have more mail server work to do.22:50
ivoksit is? teriffic22:50
ivoksthen i'll write up mir for drbd-utils22:50
mathiazivoks: it's been the case for a few weeks now.22:50
ivoks(i'm not running hardy on any of my machines :)22:50
mathiazivoks: you should ;)22:50
ivoksupgrading as we speek :)22:51
tjaaltonivoks: join us, dogfood is good :)22:51
mathiazScottK2: ivoks is planning to update the patch to integrate dovecot and postifx.22:51
ivokswe could extend it to amavis... but that could be maybe too much, cause of FF22:52
ScottKRight.  I'd like to see about integrating amavisd-new too, but until the MIR is done ....22:52
ScottK2Yes.  My exact concern22:53
mathiazwell on this point, we'll have to wait for amavis to get included into main.22:53
faulkes-question, MIR?22:54
ivoksmain inclusion report22:54
mathiazfaulkes-: Main Inclusion Report22:54
* faulkes- nods22:54
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.22:55
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.22:55
mathiazSo - to finish - same time, same place next week ?22:55
faulkes-sounds good to me22:55
tjaaltonmathiaz: should I just upload a new libpam-ldap with that patch, or?22:56
faulkes-that puts it day before FF?22:56
mathiaztjaalton: could you send you email to ubuntu-devel ?22:56
mathiazfaulkes-: yes22:56
tjaaltonmore eyes22:56
mathiaztjaalton: exactly22:56
* faulkes- nods22:57
mathiazNext week, same time, same place.22:57
mathiazThanks all for joining.22:57
* jdstrand waves22:57
mathiazHave a good week - see ya around :)22:58
jdstrandthanks mathiaz!22:58
MootBotMeeting finished at 22:58.22:58
=== bmk789 is now known as bmk789_pingme

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