[00:02] i just don't like the idea of make connecting out [00:02] Just read above that when repacking the upstream tarball, one needs to rename. Is there any guidelines as to what to add to the version; I'm seeing "repack" mentioned here, "dsfg" or so on some package out there... does it somehow depend on the changes made? [00:03] don't know why i don;t i just don't [00:06] i removed the upstream debian/ it had problems [00:06] but if a g-o-s is needed it will get done [00:08] i just a) don't like it b) want to keep my rules as uncomplex as possible [00:09] jcfp: Yes. "dsfg" indicates that files which are not compatible with the Debian Free Software Guidelines have been removed. "repack" is a bit more general; in this case it's because upstream ships a debian/ directory themselves. [00:13] gotta go vote [00:13] RAOF: so unless I'm certain all the not-completely-free-by-debian-strict-interpretation stuff has been removed, "repack" is the way to go [00:14] jcfp: If there's stuff that isn't completely-free-by-debian-standards, it's not going to go in the archives at all. [00:15] unless in contrib or non-free [00:15] We don't have the concept of contrib, as it were [00:15] It's just a guideline. If you're removing stuff to make it acceptable for the archives, repack it as dfsg. [00:16] but who uses those execcpt to get flash nvidia carq and dvd + codecs [00:17] what if upstream release includes a directory with some windows binaries. remove? keep only those that are foss licensed and include source in the tarball? [00:17] and what with those binaries in a release that dont come with the source but are under, say, gpl [00:17] jcfp: I'm not sure. I'd be tempted to remove anything not built from source, but if they're windows binaries... [00:18] jcfp: If they're released under the GPL, we need to provide source. Which should be in the source package :) [00:20] RAOF: so in any case, of those files only the ones that are gpl-or-compatible licensed AND have their source included in the upstream release may even be kept? [00:20] when repacking, that is [00:21] jcfp: I'm not experienced enough on the debian-legal side, and I haven't read the DFSG recently. My feeling would be "if it's not built from source that exists in the source package, it shouldn't be there" [00:22] RAOF: thanks, i'll just copy that feeling ;) [00:25] eww why would someone put binarys of any kind ( let alone windows ) in a source release tar [00:25] seems creepy [00:25] imbrandon_: When they're distributing mono libraries? [00:26] RAOF: and ... ? they can be built just the same [00:26] It's pretty creepy, but it's not terribly uncommon. [00:26] imbrandon_: a python program... with win32 helper binaries; it's about sabnzbdplus on revu [00:26] imbrandon_: Yeah, but unlike, say, C code the mono .dll binaries can be run anywhere. [00:27] jcfp: i can understand that in a win32 binary download tar , but not a source tar [00:27] * jcfp isn't in control of upstream releasing habits [00:27] RAOF: sure, but thats not the point, ELF can run on non linux too under certain cercumstances, but WHY [00:28] imbrandon_: Well, in the case that I'm thinking of (Tao), it's because the build system was a stone cold bitch. [00:28] jcfp: sure, totaly understandable, but you can ask/influence them :) [00:29] And it was a lot of effort to actually build the damn thing (if you even could). And they weren't really meant to be installed system-wide, either. [00:29] :P [00:30] imbrandon_: if time wasn't running out for getting things in hardy, I'd concentrate my efforts with them. [00:30] but now... :( [00:31] well if they wernt built from the source thats in the source tar then no dont include them [00:31] bottom line [00:31] but better to get upstream to remove them, for *now* you can repack dfsg [00:31] etc etc etc [00:32] ok than i'll do that. remove all but those who include source AND are gpl-or-compatible licensed [00:33] I guess it wouldn't be okay to just remove things on the basis that they're not needed? [00:34] not really [00:34] e.g. I really need a (licensing or copyright related) excuse [00:34] but you can not install them :) [00:34] note installing them and not including them in the source is totaly diffrent :) [00:34] s/note/not [00:35] its a tad devious but its not uncommon [00:35] I always fear that reviewer coming by saying I deleted to much/not enough/etc [00:36] when repacking a tar change as little as humanly possible [00:36] thats the rule of thumb [00:36] but say there is something in the source that upstream includes that you dont really want, you simply leave it in the source but dont install it via the deb [00:38] see what i mean ? [00:38] imbrandon_: sabnzbdplus contains two extra interface templates (couple of dozen files each) that have a small number of files that have improper licensing [00:38] inproper lic is not "i dont want" that needs to be fixed/removed [00:39] following this; I end up deleting only those specific files, leaving the rest [00:39] "i dont want" == builds two plugins i dont want to support so i'm not gonna install them [00:39] jcfp: yes [00:40] bah :( writing 5 pages of copyright stuff for the remaining files with which nothing is ever done. [00:40] well improper lic == not non-gpl lic [00:40] err dosent [00:40] I know [00:41] if your wanting to remove them just so you dont have to change the debian/copyright thats wong [00:41] the problematic files have no license, or specify only "BSD License" without specifying which one [00:41] or giving full text [00:42] Have you contacted upstream? [00:42] umm which one? "BSD" is only one license, there are many variants but "BSD" lic is only one [00:43] ion_: I think iĺl pressure them once more [00:43] imbrandon_: some bsd licenses are not gpl-comp [00:43] Would anybody happen to have a link to the debian changelog "what to do, and what not to do" guide? [00:44] jcfp: most bsd lic variants arent gpl compat , but that changes the fact very little [00:44] imbrandon_: they don't specify, that's the point. Just "BSD License", without any further text [00:45] jcfp: and thats my point, specifiy WHAT ? [00:45] Hit them upside the head! [00:45] with the better part of the program under gpl [00:51] creative commons v3 - is that a free license? [01:04] http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=jedit [01:05] woops.. wrong channel.. ;) [01:05] jcfp: kind of.. see http://www.gnu.org/licenses/ [01:06] jcfp: I've meant http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/license-list.html [01:07] does not mention CC-3 though.. [01:08] yeah went there but no info. google tells me debian didn't consider CCv2 ok, http://people.debian.org/~evan/ccsummary [01:08] but v3... still searching === jcfp__ is now known as jcfp === Aloha is now known as tjgillies === bmk789 is now known as bmk789_shower [02:08] Hey guys, I'm producing a .deb, I've got the bulk of it done, and some pretty complex install scripts [02:08] I was just wondering if the upgrade scripts get passed what version is currently installed, and what version is being installed so you can run particular scripts on upgrades? [02:09] JediMaster: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-maintainerscripts.html may help you. There's a better summary somewhere, though. [02:09] And the short answer is "yes" [02:10] thanks [02:14] is there a "proper" way to access databases for applications you are installing to install new SQL and upgrade it? [02:14] I remember such a discussion recently, maybe on the MOTU ML? I think there's a database-common package, which does something like that? [02:14] e.g. I've got a mysql database that needs to be installed from an sql dump on fresh install, and on upgrade run through the differences between each version [02:15] I can do it easily enough, it's just password access I need to address [02:17] btw, if anyone's interested, I've written a utility in php to track changes to MySQL databases for projects, it can track both schema and row changes to particular tables, take a peek at phpMyVersion on sourceforge, the latest svn version is working pretty well [02:17] hopefully it can be of some use to someone here =) [02:18] ActiveRecord migrations are awesome. [02:19] yeah, I've heard of it, this is a little web interface with a fairly powerful SQL parsing engine that reads through the latest changes in the mysql SQL log periodically and can track multiple databases on multiple projects (all MySQL mind you) [02:20] think the difference is that this can track row changes as well as schema [02:21] The migrations feature takes care of migrating both schema and data. [02:21] ah cool, well I probably re-invented the wheel =) [02:21] only took a day or two to do anyhow [02:23] And it’s database-agnostic. ;-) [02:23] how does it keep track of changes if it's on a database without binary log files? [02:24] does it just compare schema and row data? [02:24] like a sort of diff [02:25] am I right in thinking "debian-sys-maint" has full mysql access to the local databases? and if so, is it possible to get the password so upgrade scripts can alter particular dbs? [02:29] heh, never mind, found the password in plain text in a file only readable by root, perfect =) [02:29] The change for each revision of the database layout – i.e. migration – is in a separate file, with the filename starting with the version number. ActiveRecord stores the current version in a special table the database. Each migration contains the rules what to do when the database is being upgraded to that version, as well as when the database is being downgraded from that version. If the database says it’s version 10, there are migrations 1..15 ... [02:29] ... available and the migrations are run, the migrations 11..14 would be run by default. For instance, the first migration could add the tables “posts” and “comments”, the second migration could rename the table “posts” as “articles” and the third migration could add a “comments_count” field to the “articles” table, and fill the field in for each article that exists in the database. [02:30] yeah sounds very much like what I've written, execpt the sql is in a php array indexed by the version [02:32] Some samples of actual migration files: http://glu.ttono.us/articles/2005/10/27/the-joy-of-migrations [02:33] oh weird, is that ruby? [02:33] Yep, ActiveRecord is bundled with Rails. [02:34] nice, I'm afraid I'm calling php scripts from deb package install/upgrade scripts lol [02:34] ok, got to run, thanks for the help =) [02:37] hi, i have a bug with upstream fix that needs MOTU to update into ubuntu. [02:37] bug 184505 [02:37] Launchpad bug 184505 in jppy "jppy fails to launch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184505 [02:37] Heya gang [02:38] Yo! bddebian! [02:39] Hi RAOF [02:40] Hm. I wonder if I want to ask for gnome-keyring-sharp to be synced from Sid. [02:43] What the hell. It's got no bugs in the bts, it's been essentially stable for a while, and it seems not unlikely that people (ie: me) will want it. [02:44] heya [02:49] wastrel: The ideal solution is you make an updated package with the patch, attach it to the bug and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug. If you need help with that, ask. [02:51] diy eh [02:52] anybody seen laserjock around ? [02:53] !seen laserjock [02:53] Sorry, I don't know anything about seen laserjock - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [02:54] im surprised botty doesn't have that function [03:02] wastrel: heh. Are you working on it? [03:03] tjgillies, /msg seenserv help [03:04] PriceChild, thnx [03:06] crimsun, that's a negative. don't have the time or energy. [03:06] cleaning out my email inbox :] [03:08] wastrel: heh, ok. Pretty simple fix. Uploaded. [03:08] I'm not even going to think about my inbox, which I can't even access for another few weeks. [03:09] yeah but i don't have an environment set up for building packages [03:09] thanks [03:09] if you're on broadband, it doesn't take but a few minutes. [03:10] ScottK: glad to see you're on the nom for MOTU Release Team [03:13] crimsun: Thanks. [03:13] oh yes, i should vote with that [03:14] Same. [03:14] * RAOF just has. [03:19] * ScottK should too. [03:22] Oddly enough the other tab open in that browser window had US Presidential primary election results in it. [03:25] I so hope Hilary becomes president [03:26] StevenK: Why? [03:26] Then she can point to Bill Clinton and say "I did not have sexual relations with that man." [03:26] :P [03:26] * ScottK laughs. [03:27] RAOF: She seems a little more 3 dimensional than Obama. And lets face it, she is loads better than Dubya [03:28] She's pretty well unelectable though. [03:28] It seems that pretty much everyone satisfies the latter constraint. [03:28] Very few people are neutral on her. [03:28] ScottK: Oh? [03:28] It's roughly 40% love her, 50% hate her, and 10% are uncertain. [03:29] RAOF: Well, I like her better than Obama. He seems a little, um, "Oh woe is me. Look what I've had to deal with." [03:29] I haven't been following particularly closely, but whta I've seen of Obama makes me favour him. [03:29] figures i heard were 30%ish hate her [03:29] Depends on the poll I guess. [03:29] ScottK: So, today is Super Tuesday, right? [03:29] Yes [03:29] which matches well with the 30% of complete idiots who approve of W still [03:29] ScottK: So, out of today, we get two candiates for the presidentancy? [03:30] hrm o4o apply in here :] [03:30] Maybe [03:30] i'm going back to my email [03:30] ScottK: I'm a little unclear. The elections are *far* more complicated than us convicts [03:30] Yes. Understand. [03:31] It's extremely unlikely that anyone will have enough delegates to their respective party conventions after today to be sure to win. [03:31] * TheMuso mehs at the US presidential race. [03:31] Excellent [03:31] TheMuso: Would you please motu-sru ack Bug #120445 [03:31] Launchpad bug 120445 in firestarter "Firestarter firewall continuously crashes no matter which desktop or screen it's on." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120445 [03:32] I'm a little interested, but I'm also interested in why libosso causes hildon-desktop to SEGV [03:32] If anyone wants to cringe, I can explain the bug [03:32] The short version is after tonight my prediction is the McCain will about have it in the bag and the dems will still be split. [03:32] ScottK: If I remember how to state that its worth an SRU, sure. :p [03:32] I'll stop now. [03:33] Isn't Dubya Republican? [03:33] Yes [03:33] But he's not running. Term limited [03:33] Right, more reason to like Hilary [03:33] ScottK: I knew that bit [03:33] Oh no. USA politics on an Ubuntu channel. :/ [03:33] He's pretty unusual as Republicans go. [03:33] (Thank $DEITY he can't run) [03:34] WTF, did someone say there's a reason to like Hitlery? [03:35] Oh yes, compare her to Naziism, that'll make me respect your point of view. [03:35] [03:36] And USA politics being talked about by an Australian, no less. :) [03:36] I'm curious enough to discuss them, but I don't care much. [03:36] As their largest colony, it's only fair :P [03:36] You have used the Hitler card. You have no Hitler cards left.--MORE-- [03:37] RAOF: It only seems that way thanks to Howard [03:38] True. I was just trying to remember how to spell facicious. [03:38] And failing :) [03:38] Haha [03:38] RAOF: Oh yes, I hit level 65 last night. :-) [03:38] StevenK: Cool, cool. [03:38] Well, since Australia is their _largest_ colony, it means Russia isn't their colony. That's a relief. : [03:38] ) [03:39] * RAOF hasn't been Wowing much recently. [03:39] * StevenK kicks libosso and dbus [03:40] StevenK: To move the topic back onto something vaguely resemling "on", do you want to help me close the gtk-engine-nodoka ITP, or shall I hit the sponsor ML? [03:40] StevenK: Nah, she's not a nazi, just a socialist. [03:41] RAOF: I'd rather not review something, just because I don't want to drop state. [03:41] StevenK: This isn't a "now" proposition, really. It's just a "do you want first crack at it sometime". [03:41] And also a "how lazy can I be" question ;) [03:43] RAOF: Send it to mentors, and I'll grab it if someone else doesn't [03:43] K. It's already there, but I'll advertise it too then. [03:45] * StevenK sighs at libosso [03:45] * RAOF is reminded of "porko rosso" each time you say that. [03:46] What is porko rosso? [03:46] A Miazaki anime. Possibly misspelled. [03:46] Ah [03:47] About a pig, who flies bi-planes. [03:47] Hmm [03:48] RAOF: libosso is Nokia's abstraction layer over dbus [03:48] What does it abstract? [03:48] The message passing bit [03:49] So, both system and session buses [03:49] StevenK: I'm about to head into a mess of work also. That being the espeak audio output fiasco. [03:49] As soon as I get this cvs snapshot packaged. [03:49] I'm starting to really hate this. [03:50] My major experience with dbus has been in python, where there doesn't seem to be anything *to* abstract. [03:51] libosso installs a dbus/system.d file that is frightening. [03:51] * Hobbsee is glad that the MOTU election stuff is nothing like the US presidential elections [03:51] Changing that seems to have a negative effect on hildon-desktop that SEGVs [03:52] RAOF: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4235/ [03:52] Hobbsee: Why so we can't disparage you for your views? :-) [03:52] :P [03:52] StevenK: Ah, the old "security is for pansies" config file. [03:53] RAOF: "Security? What security?" [03:53] "We implicitly trust every app on this system" [03:53] BAD [03:54] RAOF: pitti wisely took one look at the file and said, "libosso isn't getting main goodness until you fix that." [03:54] Oh, dear. Very much yes. [03:55] RAOF: So, I have a very different file right now, and hildon-desktop SEGVs [03:55] StevenK: ouch indeed [03:55] Haha, nice config. [03:55] From what I can work out, libosso takes a bunch of handlers and stuffs them into a GSList inside a GHashTable (yay for abstract data structures) [03:55] Because why catch errors when you can just ensure that the daemon will never sanity check you! [03:56] With the config file that I showed you, it works. With mine (any of mine, it seems any change I make doesn't help) it SEGVs [03:57] Quality software from one of the most aggressive lobbyists for EU software patents. :-) [03:58] If this is the kind of code nokia produces, I'm not sure I want to touch another of their products. [03:59] One word: symb**n [04:00] ion_: If their devices were accessible, no problem. [04:00] ion_: Do they still use symbian? [04:01] TheMuso: On their phones, yes [04:01] StevenK: Hrm. The latest talks etc don't appear to work with them, so far as I know. Its all damn nokia. [04:01] TheMuso: They did jump a major Symbian version which isn't backward-compatible [04:02] That was a little while ago, though [04:02] right [04:02] nevertheless [04:02] Suppose I want to restore Mozilla branding in iceowl 0.7-2 and rename it back to Sunbird; do I need it to pass REVU, or can I just upload sunbird 0.7-2ubuntu1 directly to Ubuntu? [04:02] the only 3rd edition symbian phones that seem to be supported are nokia [04:02] TheMuso: Ah yes, that's it. 3rd edition. [04:02] TheMuso: My N80 is 3rd edition [04:03] StevenK: So is my 5700 [04:03] I am gettting so convinced to buy a flip phone [04:03] I personally couldn't think of anything worse. [04:04] The N80 has two Navi-keys, when you slide it closed and lock it, you need to press the left and then the right key to unlock it [04:04] And then if hit the dial key, you can dial the last number [04:04] While it's in a pouch on your belt, it's *very* easy to do that [04:06] * StevenK has a theory about this libosso problem [04:06] StevenK: Re the phone, sounds like fun [04:07] TheMuso: It really isn't. [04:07] You really need to install a keypad auto lock program, unless the phone has such a feature. [04:08] My previous phone, I used an autolock app, which was great. My new one however, has this feature, although it only works when the phone is at the standby screen. [04:09] TheMuso: autolock doesn't help, since it doesn't change how you unlock the phone [04:09] TheMuso: Locking the phone isn't the problem, it's how completly and utterly trivial it is to unlock it by accident [04:09] StevenK: right [04:15] ugh anyone else here on new(er) apple hardware ? [04:16] i cant get the damn numlock to activate [04:19] Is there a Launchpad status for "fix available" as in someone's written the code, but it's not in Ubuntu yet? [04:19] Fix Commited [04:20] Ah, okay. I thought that meant it had been like send to the LP build queue or something. [04:21] So, Fix Committed can be used for bugs fixed upstream? [04:22] Sounds like it.. [04:22] tonyyarusso: I wouldn't use Fix Commited for that [04:22] StevenK: care to explain further how you would use it? [04:23] tonyyarusso: If I'd uploaded it, I'd put the bug in the changelog and set it to In Progress when I'd uploaded it. [04:23] Launchpad would then close it for me [04:24] StevenK: What if you had attached the fix to the bug but didn't have archive upload rights? [04:24] Um. That doesn't affect me, so I don't use it that way [04:25] :P [04:25] One of the LP devs had a long blog post last year the told us exactly how we were supposed to use all the status and that we were wrong to do it any other way. Google probably knows about it if you talk to it nice. [04:25] you gotta rub it the right way [04:25] fsk this is makin me mad, how can i assign the numlock function to an "f" key ? [04:27] "Fix Committed: a developer has committed his/her fix to the project's codebase.", "In Progress: a developer has taken responsibility to fix the bug and has begun work." - given that "the codebase" in this case (just Ubuntu packaging info) resides in the archives, I'm guessing "In Progress" is best for me. [04:29] StevenK: Does your theory pan out? [04:29] Nope [04:29] libosso hates me [04:29] I'd be hating it I think [04:29] Gads evolution sucks [04:31] Argh [04:32] * RAOF is bathed in the sweet music of complaint :) [04:32] heh [04:33] Sounds like RAOF has children. [04:33] * ScottK is soaked in it daily [04:33] heh [04:34] The nearest child to me is the baby that lives below our flat :/ [04:36] RAOF, i just watched hot fuzz last night. good movie [04:36] * RAOF is perplexed by the non-sequiter. It is, however, a good movie. At least the first time. [04:38] bddebian> I use kmail [04:39] Despite having GNOME. That's the least ugly email client I've seen. [04:39] What's frustrating is that it's literally the last KDE3 application I still use. [04:40] I used Thunderbird. It's OK, but evolution tried to be outlook like or something [04:40] Thunderbird is good. [04:41] * ScottK uses Kmail too. [04:41] Enigmail, however, is ugly - and I _do_ need PGP support. [04:42] Gutsy and later Kmail comes with all the bits you need for PGP already installed and configured (you just need to tell it what key to use). [04:42] * tonyyarusso actually thought Enigmail was pretty good, especially compared to Evo's handling [04:43] i like the evolution plugin [04:43] * TheMuso had better get the washing in before the weather turns any more nasty... could storm here very soon. [04:43] TheMuso, does washing == laundry? [04:44] Aloha: Yes [04:45] RAOF, i only said i watched it because you said "flat" and it reminded me of the movie because we don't talk like that here :) [04:46] Since he didn't say 'Arr-part-ment' ? [04:46] StevenK, i live in a condo ;) [04:46] Aloha: Merely an example. :-) [04:47] StevenK, we say "ah-part-ment" at least in this part of the country :) [04:47] Heh [04:48] Aloha: Where are you? [04:48] arr-part-ment? pirate country? [04:48] bddebian: On IRC [04:49] pfft [04:49] judging by his ISP, I'm guessing Kentucky [04:49] slangasek: Slightly exaggerated === asac_ is now known as asac [04:50] StevenK: I have no idea what you're exaggerating, unless you're mocking commonwealthers inability to pronounce r's in the first place ;) [04:50] Or l's, based on nuclear? [04:51] Texas is a separate country [04:51] That's nucular [04:51] Haha [04:51] They wish [04:51] "The United States of America. Oh, and Texas." === LucidFox is now known as Rushido-Fokkusu [04:51] Zatsu nukuraru === Rushido-Fokkusu is now known as LucidFox [04:52] StevenK, hey now we're not our own country anymore. [04:52] StevenK, that was many years ago :) [04:52] s'ok, it'll be Mexico again soon [04:56] * jdong applies for a Linus of the Day Award [04:56] I needed a homework organizing system, and none of the existing TODO/calendaring apps quite fit my bill [04:57] so I got together a bunch of hackish ruby scripts to manipulate a directory tree of plaintext files into a TODO list :D [04:58] jdong: tried tdl? [04:59] Flannel: yes in fact, my implementation was quite inspired by tdl [05:00] Flannel: but tdl didn't do exactly what I needed, and its on-disk format was a bit too complex for my tastes [05:00] jdong: for curiositys sake, what about tdl didn't you like/didnt work/whatever? [05:01] Flannel: my main criteria were (1) Can be parsed/edited by a human with generic editors (2) Is easily manageable via bzr for concurrent disconnected mirrors [05:01] I believe tdl uses a binary storage system which is not ideal for merging [05:02] bzr does binary diffs though, right? unlike cvs [05:02] Flannel: not really, last time I checked. It recognizes binary files are "different" and will go into manual conflict resolution [05:02] which is not all that helpful [05:02] if I add a TODO from computer A and delete one from computer B, then try to merge... [05:03] bzr would tell me there's tdldb.THIS and tdldb.OTHER [05:03] Oh, I dont mean for merging, I mean just in the DB itself. Storage. [05:03] that's awesome, but..... yeah [05:03] Yeah, tdl is binary formatted. [05:03] Flannel: right, bzr can store binaries perfectly [05:03] it does incremental storage? [05:03] yes [05:03] it uses a diff algorithm internally to represent binary changes [05:04] Alright. Itd be crazy if something so new didnt [05:04] I recall, however, the performance of diffing massive binaries is not up to par with its competitors [05:04] mostly because its competitors have natively implemented diffs [05:06] bzr is orders of magnitude away from up to par in performance from certain competitors. :-) [05:06] ion_: they're getting better though [05:06] ion_: when did you last test [05:06] ion_: and what base [05:06] they've come a long way and definitely make steady, predictable progress [05:06] and look at that, here comes a bzr guy to the rescue :D [05:07] lifeless: I'm guessing he tried to pull one of the many 5000+ file bzr branches off launchpad ;-) [05:07] jdong: have you upgraded to packs ? [05:07] in which case, I feel quite sorry for him :) [05:07] lifeless: locally, yes, but I haven't had the opportunity to try anything over the network with packs [05:08] lifeless: is it significantly improved? [05:08] jdong: you should do 'bzr upgrade sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/....' [05:08] jdong: followed up by 'bzr reconcile ' [05:08] jdong: for each of your branches [05:08] lifeless: I'll do that [05:08] jdong: about 5000 times faster in your case [05:08] lifeless: Just bzr --help from a warm cache takes 0.45 seconds here. git does many of the most used operations in much less than that. [05:08] lifeless: well that's a good speedup :) [05:09] ion_: thats a very meaningful benchmark [05:09] lifeless: people get fussy when help doesn't immediately arrive! [05:09] If --help takes that, the rest of the operations probably take *at least* that. [05:09] lifeless: One thing to keep in mind, the version of bzr in Gutsy doesn't support packs [05:09] 0.325 real seconds for me [05:09] bzr --help 0.18s user 0.04s system 98% cpu 0.223 total [05:09] StevenK: ppas for the win. kthxbye. [05:10] StevenK: backports [05:10] StevenK: though admittedly bzr-svn lags behind ;-) [05:10] I prefer lifeless's soltuion. [05:10] ion_: you are making many assumptions about what --help has to do; this is strange for someone that has used git (making assumptions is strange I mean) [05:10] I avoid crackports [05:10] fine fine, trust some random PPA over the backports team :) [05:10] the bzr developers ppa [05:10] not exactly random [05:11] I was being sarcastic, you guys have a wonderful ppa [05:11] k lol [05:11] That sounded more bitter [05:11] why isn't backports a ppa ? [05:11] no, it's just after-coding bitterness [05:11] lifeless: Having to wait half a second for something to happen every time you run a command just feels slow after getting used to getting results almost immediately. [05:12] Dear hildon-desktop, stop segfaulting. kthxbye [05:12] ion_: I'd guess at some problem in your setup [05:12] how long does 'time python -c ""' take for instance [05:12] Well we could just stop packaging anything that's hosted on LP and automatically pull in from upstream PPAs. [05:12] lifeless: (1) ppa's weren't invented 3 release cycles ago (2) I don't feel like downloading some of those 30+MB source archives just to change 2 lines in changelog and reupload them... [05:12] lifeless: 0.1 s [05:13] lifeless: (3) ppc/sparc/friends would probably not be happy [05:13] (4) no packages.ubuntu.com listings.... (minor reason) [05:13] jdong: YHBT HTH HAND KTB [05:14]