| telexicon | I'm trying to setup a caching proxy with squid and I'm having issues where when accessing some web pages there is a 2 to 10 second delay, its intermittent, ive checked dns, gone through the logs, any ideas? | 02:52 |
|---|---|---|
| bmac2 | I am having problems getting ubuntu to install on a dell poweredge 2450 | 03:24 |
| bmac2 | even if I diable the raid portion of the controller and tell it to be ONLY scsi | 03:24 |
| bmac2 | it starts the install and then errors out | 03:24 |
| bmac2 | I can't find any documentation with google or around | 03:25 |
| bmac2 | anyone know how to install on the dell with the PERC controller built into the system? | 03:25 |
| ScottK | I know it's possible, but I haven't done it. | 03:25 |
| bmac2 | or any links? | 03:25 |
| bmac2 | it starts to install/boot | 03:25 |
| bmac2 | then gets an error | 03:25 |
| bmac2 | and just hangs forever with error after error | 03:26 |
| bmac2 | drivnig me nuts | 03:26 |
| bmac2 | cause freebsd runs fine | 03:26 |
| ScottK | This is a quiet time of day on this channel so I'd have some patience and hang out for a while. | 03:26 |
| bmac2 | on the same machine | 03:26 |
| bmac2 | k | 03:26 |
| ScottK | Are you using the regular install CD or the alternate? | 03:26 |
| bmac2 | tried both | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | tried kubuntu | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | tried ubuntu | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | tried standing on my head | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | tried different versions | 03:27 |
| ScottK | Installer is the same for Kubuntu and Ubuntu. The alternate has a different installer. | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | did everything except throw the machine out | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | lol | 03:27 |
| bmac2 | the alternate started stuff then bombed just like the other | 03:28 |
| faulkes- | might be a bit more helpful if there were particular errors you tell us about | 03:30 |
| faulkes- | s/you/you could | 03:34 |
| bmac2 | ok let me start the install again and tell you exactly what error it gives | 03:36 |
| bmac2 | it is the same error, so hold on, takes like 4 minutes to get it booted and to the error | 03:36 |
| faulkes- | that's fine, I should be here for a bit | 03:47 |
| faulkes- | although if I don't answer immediately it's probably because I'm in another window working, I will check back | 03:48 |
| bmac2 | k | 03:48 |
| bmac2 | I am running the install right now | 03:48 |
| bmac2 | from teh alternate cd | 03:48 |
| bmac2 | to tell you what the error is on that | 03:49 |
| bmac2 | that was the first disk I found in the stack | 03:49 |
| bmac2 | ok burning me a new copy of the ubuntu server 7.10 | 04:02 |
| bmac2 | the last copy was NOT granddaughter proof | 04:02 |
| bmac2 | she kinda scratched it up a little | 04:02 |
| kgoetz | hehe | 04:02 |
| bmac2 | what do you expect for someone who turns 1 year old in a copule of days | 04:04 |
| bmac2 | everything to her is a chew toy | 04:04 |
| bmac2 | and goes straight to the mouth, then thrown across the house | 04:04 |
| bmac2 | ok got the error now | 04:27 |
| bmac2 | ata: abnormal status | 04:28 |
| bmac2 | ata1: 00 configured for UDMA/25 | 04:28 |
| bmac2 | kernel: ATA HE complete | 04:29 |
| bmac2 | those three lines repeating | 04:29 |
| bmac2 | buffer i/o error sr0 | 04:29 |
| bmac2 | that a bunch of times | 04:29 |
| bmac2 | ATA1: port is slow to respond, please be patient | 04:30 |
| bmac2 | and the isntall hangs at 21% when it is loading lib6c-udeb | 04:30 |
| bmac2 | freebsd installs fine | 04:31 |
| bmac2 | ? | 04:31 |
| bmac2 | I am going to put a different cdrom drive in that server | 04:33 |
| bmac2 | and see if it is the cd drive hosing the installs | 04:33 |
| bmac2 | son of a | 04:44 |
| bmac2 | B**** | 04:44 |
| bmac2 | it was a bad cdrom drive | 04:45 |
| bmac2 | it is one of those little thin ones like a laptop has | 04:45 |
| bmac2 | I had a dvd drive one and put it in | 04:45 |
| bmac2 | and it blasted past where the error was before | 04:45 |
| bmac2 | so thanks anyway!!! if nothing else for listening to me | 04:45 |
| tijn | hey ppl | 08:12 |
| tijn | is it possible to really force delete a broken file? (15 Exabyte) it has the wierdest file attributes :S | 08:12 |
| soren | rm filename? | 08:15 |
| tijn | nope, doesnt work | 08:15 |
| soren | Or what do you mean "really force"? | 08:15 |
| soren | Does'nt work how? | 08:15 |
| tijn | well, obviously the file is broken (15 exabyte is a lot ;) | 08:15 |
| soren | That's fine. | 08:15 |
| tijn | not work like: cannot remove file: operation not permitted | 08:16 |
| _ruben | sudo rm filename ? | 08:16 |
| soren | $ ls -l foobar.img | 08:16 |
| soren | -rw-r--r-- 1 soren soren 1413189101040959488 2008-02-06 09:16 foobar.img | 08:16 |
| tijn | i am root | 08:16 |
| soren | It's no problem. | 08:16 |
| soren | Ok, check the mount options of the file system it's on. | 08:17 |
| tijn | those are ok, only with 4 files, the rest is fine | 08:18 |
| tijn | -rwsrw---T 55339 505502668 2665305837 15E 1916-10-28 20:07 7 <-- this is the file | 08:18 |
| tijn | result of ls -lah | 08:19 |
| soren | "those are ok"? Which ones? The mount options? | 08:20 |
| tijn | yes | 08:21 |
| soren | Er.. If you're root, and you can't delete a file, it's the filesystem driver, that's telling you to sod off. | 08:21 |
| soren | Either it's buggy, or it mounted read-only or something. | 08:21 |
| soren | Check /proc/mounts rather than the output of mounts. | 08:21 |
| soren | Which filesystem is it on? | 08:22 |
| tijn | ext3 | 08:22 |
| tijn | the "broken" files a the result of a canceled backup | 08:22 |
| tijn | are* | 08:22 |
| soren | What sort of backup? | 08:23 |
| tijn | automated process of scp and cp | 08:23 |
| tijn | it was in the middle of an scp transfer and i canceled it | 08:24 |
| soren | Explain how you come to the conclusion that cancelling a read operation can cause filesystem corruption. | 08:25 |
| tijn | no no, the file is the backup | 08:25 |
| tijn | it's the backup server | 08:25 |
| kraut | moin | 08:26 |
| tijn | (sorry for my bad English explanation) | 08:27 |
| soren | tijn: ... | 08:27 |
| soren | If you have all this information you could have said so to begin with. | 08:27 |
| tijn | yes sorry | 08:27 |
| soren | Is the filesystem full, by any chance? | 08:28 |
| tijn | nope, freshly installed | 08:28 |
| tijn | /var has 3 TB free space left | 08:28 |
| soren | Well, it's hardly freshly installed if you've already shoved backups onto it? | 08:29 |
| tijn | the backups are beeing made in /var/backup/data | 08:29 |
| tijn | well it was a test run | 08:29 |
| tijn | fresh like in new and clean | 08:30 |
| soren | Does dmesg say anything interesting? | 08:30 |
| tijn | hey, yes it does: [325895.828879] EXT3-fs error (device dm-8): ext3_new_block: Allocating block in system zone - blocks from 813957851, length 1 | 08:31 |
| soren | tijn: Is that the last line? | 08:32 |
| tijn | yes | 08:33 |
| tijn | but repeats alot with increasing numbers | 08:33 |
| soren | "dmesg | grep read-only" please | 08:33 |
| tijn | nothing | 08:33 |
| soren | I don't know, really. I'd probably to an fsck and see if it fixes it and proceed with thorough testing to make sure it doesn't happen again. I've no clue what could have caused this (apart from hardware issues). | 08:40 |
| avatar_ | tijn: which kernel version do you run? | 08:40 |
| === kaii is now known as gotcoffee | ||
| === gotcoffee is now known as kaii | ||
| avatar_ | tijn: check al your disks in your raidarray for badblocks | 08:46 |
| tijn | kernel 2.6.22 | 08:47 |
| tijn | avatar_, soren, ok i will fsck everything and if the problem wont go away i'll format everything and do a reinstall | 08:48 |
| tijn | thnx for the help ! | 08:48 |
| soren | Ah, right. I get so caught up in hardy stuff, I automatically assume everyone else is running hardy, too :) | 08:51 |
| soren | I didn't even think to ask the kernel version.. | 08:51 |
| _ruben | hehe | 08:51 |
| tijn | soren, it works after a reinstall | 10:26 |
| avatar_ | nice | 10:27 |
| avatar_ | after all a weird issue | 10:27 |
| tijn | indeed | 10:27 |
| tijn | lucky it was not in production yet :) | 10:27 |
| avatar_ | hmm, are you working for virtu? | 10:29 |
| tijn | nope | 10:33 |
| tijn | hehe why? | 10:33 |
| tijn | we are hosting @ virtu | 10:34 |
| tijn | why? | 10:39 |
| tijn | afk | 10:41 |
| tijn | brb | 10:41 |
| Gargoyle | if apt-get upgrade is going to update linux-image-2.6.22-14-server, dies that mean my kernel is going to be updated? | 12:39 |
| zul | morning | 12:39 |
| Gargoyle | afternoon | 12:39 |
| soren | Gargoyle: What's the point of confusion? | 13:12 |
| Gargoyle | I already have that version as the running kernel. Just wondered if I need to recompile any modules I have added? | 13:13 |
| soren | No. | 13:14 |
| Gargoyle | cool | 13:14 |
| soren | It's a new version, but it doesn't update the ABI, so any modules you have installed will still work. | 13:14 |
| Gargoyle | ahh | 13:17 |
| Gargoyle | How do you find out which groups manage particular packages for ubuntu? | 13:18 |
| Gargoyle | are they all in launchpad? | 13:18 |
| soren | Depends. | 13:20 |
| Gargoyle | Well, specifically DRBD and heartbeat | 13:21 |
| soren | There are two major groups: Core developers and MOTU's. MOTU's manage univers and multiverse, core-dev's everything else. | 13:21 |
| Gargoyle | or does ubuntu have a different direction for HA? | 13:21 |
| soren | We also have various teams, that generally tend to certain packages, but that's more of a convention than a hard rule. | 13:22 |
| soren | Any core-dev can touch any package in main. | 13:22 |
| soren | drbd and heartbeat is the server team's domain, usually. | 13:22 |
| soren | So this is the right place to discuss it. | 13:22 |
| Gargoyle | :) | 13:22 |
| === _emgent is now known as emgent | ||
| Gargoyle | if I am using dpkg --install some.deb file and it says there are missing dependencies, is there a switch I can add to make it go off and install those? | 15:34 |
| sommer | soren: I'm getting a libvirt3.1 conflict with libvirt3.2 when trying to upgrade virt-viewer... just fyi | 15:47 |
| sommer | soren: I mean libxen3.1 conflict with libxen3.2 :) | 15:56 |
| sommer | soren: nm, found you conversation with zul on devel | 16:26 |
| zul | sommer: yep we are working on it | 16:26 |
| sommer | party!, xen works with virt-manager correct? | 16:27 |
| sommer | or will work | 16:27 |
| zul | it should but I dont think it is tested | 16:27 |
| zul | not by me anyways | 16:27 |
| sommer | cool, I'd be glad to help test that, but noticed issues trying to install xen... so far anyway | 16:28 |
| faulkes- | quick question about testing actually, are you guys playing with real hardware or setting up your own virtuals (case depending obviously) | 16:36 |
| faulkes- | just looking how best to contribute, I just don't have much hardware kicking around to throw up the server version on | 16:37 |
| zul | faulkes-: your right it is depending on the case but helping out can range from testing to bug fixing, to packaging | 16:44 |
| faulkes- | yes, true, I'm not discounting the other options, testing, bugs, docs, even in channel support | 16:47 |
| faulkes- | again, I'm still trying to find a place, I tend to move a bit slower and try to understand as much as possible before I start | 16:48 |
| faulkes- | so, right now, mostly I'm reading and attending the irc meetings | 16:48 |
| zul | cool...welcome | 16:48 |
| faulkes- | and of course, idling away in the channel ;) | 16:48 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: one area we'd need some testing is KVM in hardy | 16:50 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: so if you have some spare hardware that supports virtualization, you could install hardy on it and use KVM to setup guests for the other versions of ubuntu | 16:51 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: that's how do most of my developement work when fixing bugs for example. | 16:52 |
| * faulkes- nods | 16:56 | |
| faulkes- | at the current time, my only real spare hardware is an old g3 I'm using as a fileserver, which isn't exactly mainstream for what is being done (imo) | 16:57 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: correct. You need to have recent cpus that support hardware virtualization. | 16:58 |
| soren | sommer: :) | 16:58 |
| faulkes- | I do have experience with Xen, at least from an operational perspective, I just don't my work would appreciate me adding another virt ;) | 16:58 |
| faulkes- | I'm thinking the best way would be to have some spare hardware of relatively recent and decent configuration | 16:59 |
| * faulkes- should go to ebay | 17:00 | |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: right. I've just ordered some new hardware, opteron 1212 + 4 Gb of RAM | 17:00 |
| soren | mathiaz: Shiny! | 17:00 |
| mathiaz | soren: yop - should get it by the end of this week. | 17:01 |
| faulkes- | just have to balance the budget though as I want to pickup a dell 1730 laptop fully specced out | 17:01 |
| mathiaz | soren: I'll install hardy on it and migrate all my developement work to KVM guest in there | 17:02 |
| soren | mathiaz: I just got me one of these babies: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5600+ | 17:02 |
| faulkes- | my old laptp is creaking along slowly to it's eventual death | 17:02 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: well I got it for 650 $ | 17:02 |
| soren | mathiaz: 2.8GHz, 4 GB RAM, and on a 100 Mbps pipe. Booyah! | 17:02 |
| faulkes- | yeah, I've ebay'd for equipment before | 17:02 |
| mathiaz | soren: right. That's in a data center. | 17:02 |
| soren | mathiaz: Yeah. No noise. | 17:02 |
| soren | mathiaz: \o/ | 17:02 |
| faulkes- | err, mathiaz even | 17:03 |
| mathiaz | soren: my new hardware will be sitting next to me... hopefully it won't be to noisy :/ | 17:03 |
| faulkes- | damnation, I can't read this morning | 17:03 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I think I could have got something for less than 500$ | 17:03 |
| faulkes- | most definitely you can | 17:03 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I added another hd | 17:03 |
| soren | mathiaz: I've got a cunning plan for kvm in hardy+1 that will make having the machine in the data centre even less significant than it is now. | 17:04 |
| faulkes- | heck, even the 1900 series dell 1u's are pretty cheap | 17:04 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: well - my spec included 4 Gb of RAM so that raises the price | 17:04 |
| * faulkes- nods | 17:04 | |
| mathiaz | soren: how come ? | 17:05 |
| faulkes- | I'm not really concerned about $650 or so | 17:05 |
| faulkes- | just need to budget it out | 17:05 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I'd rather not have 1U server in my flat - I don't want to live in a data center. | 17:05 |
| faulkes- | because the laptop I want is like $3600 | 17:05 |
| faulkes- | I'd ship the 1u off to the colo | 17:06 |
| soren | mathiaz: Well, now, it's a bit inconvenient that I have to move ISO's around and such to do certain things. I hope to eliminate that, so that the client you use to connect to kvm will make it appear as though you're at the machine. | 17:07 |
| mathiaz | soren: once I start using KVM, I'll probably fully grasp what your plan is for hardy+1 | 17:08 |
| === kaii_ is now known as kaii | ||
| Iulian | Hi | 19:47 |
| faulkes- | hello | 19:56 |
| ivoks | meeting in 15 minutes? | 20:46 |
| mathiaz | ivoks: yes - in #ubuntu-meeting | 20:46 |
| ivoks | nice | 20:46 |
| zul | crap its nearly 16:00 already | 20:48 |
| faulkes- | hmm, I should get a coffee before the meeting kicks off | 20:52 |
| faulkes- | I didn't get much sleep last night | 20:53 |
| zul | hah...neither did i | 21:02 |
| faulkes- | mathiaz: you got the /msg with my email? | 22:58 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: yes. | 22:59 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: are you subscribed to ubuntu-server ? | 22:59 |
| faulkes- | kk, anything you want reviewed and comments on just send it over | 22:59 |
| faulkes- | yes, I am | 22:59 |
| faulkes- | or send it to ubuntu-server | 22:59 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: ok. I'll send an email to u-server with my proposal for a mentoring program | 22:59 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I'll ask for feedback in there. | 22:59 |
| faulkes- | ah, I was talking about presentation for Dev. Week | 23:00 |
| ivoks | bbl | 23:00 |
| faulkes- | to get more publicity / involvement of new people in -server | 23:00 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: ah ok. | 23:00 |
| faulkes- | in either case, I am happy to contribute | 23:00 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I think it falls under the are. | 23:00 |
| mathiaz | area | 23:00 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I'm still thinking about how-to have more people contributing to the server team. | 23:01 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I wonder if the wiki page are overwhelming in information | 23:01 |
| faulkes- | well, I guess from my perspective it involves to key areas, one is ubuntu specific/general and one is server specific/general, and the need to not duplicate stuff | 23:02 |
| ScottK | One suggestion I have is to have it documented (on the wiki I guess) who to talk to about stuff. | 23:02 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: my idea with the mentoring program bein that having one single point of contact would help people navigating in the ubuntu world. | 23:02 |
| faulkes- | yes, I would agree, it can be quite overwhelming | 23:03 |
| * faulkes- is patient though | 23:03 | |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: have you read the GettingInvolved page on the Server Team wiki page ? | 23:04 |
| faulkes- | yes | 23:04 |
| faulkes- | It was how I started and subbed to u-s and joined here | 23:05 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: how did you get to this page ? | 23:05 |
| faulkes- | but the wider ubuntu world, which new people still have to work with, regardless of team, is overwhelming | 23:05 |
| faulkes- | iirc, I was going through a link of the forums page to getting involved | 23:06 |
| faulkes- | I was looking for a Loco near me as well | 23:06 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: ok. So you came from the forums ? | 23:06 |
| faulkes- | yes, i have been active over there helping with issues when I find them, that I can help with | 23:07 |
| faulkes- | but specifically for the server team and involvement, it is because I work with linux based servers professionally and use ubuntu on my laptop personally | 23:07 |
| faulkes- | and I liked what I saw with the desktop side of things | 23:08 |
| faulkes- | figured I had alot of actual working experience that would best suit working with the server team | 23:08 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: ok. That another point we're trying to address - how to get professional involved in the Server Team. | 23:08 |
| faulkes- | well, one key point I would make, is that the forums treat the server / security side as third party | 23:09 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: In my view, contributors to the desktop team are a different crowd that the one in the server team. | 23:09 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: probably. I think it's because ubuntu is well known for its desktop offering. | 23:10 |
| faulkes- | so what ends up happy is that most of the server stuff gets pushed into the other forums | 23:10 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: which forums are refering to ? | 23:10 |
| faulkes- | http://ubuntuforums.org/ | 23:10 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: hum - I meant "other forums" ? | 23:11 |
| faulkes- | ah, I see | 23:11 |
| faulkes- | dell ubuntu support | 23:11 |
| faulkes- | hardware & laptops | 23:12 |
| faulkes- | and in some cases general | 23:12 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: right. I must admit I don't spend a lot of time in the forums. | 23:13 |
| * faulkes- nods | 23:13 | |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: But it's definetly a ressource we'd like to leverage more | 23:13 |
| faulkes- | just, I think in order to bring in more professionals, the forums offer a good lead in | 23:13 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: in general too. | 23:14 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: but a lot of professional don't/can't contribute directly to ubuntu | 23:14 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: at least in an open process. | 23:14 |
| faulkes- | and if there was a specific server forum, that appeared to be in that first list of primary forums, we'd get alot more traction | 23:14 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I guess there is some education to be done in that area. | 23:14 |
| faulkes- | alot of the issues range mainly around general stuff, like hardware from specific vendors and such | 23:15 |
| faulkes- | but also server software configuration and such | 23:15 |
| faulkes- | and I agree, that alot of professionals can't directly contribute | 23:15 |
| faulkes- | I think it would help though if the server side was given equal opportunity | 23:16 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: you may wanna talk to the ubuntu forum team about this. | 23:17 |
| faulkes- | I could do that, certainly | 23:17 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: that would be a great to get started in the Server Team. | 23:17 |
| faulkes- | ok | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: since you have experience with the forums, you could try to increase the importance of the Server are on the forums. | 23:18 |
| faulkes- | I will have a chat with them and add an item to the agenda for the next meeting to report on | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I tought about adding a permanent link to the top of the server forums link to the ServerTeam page. | 23:18 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: there is also the developer forum that is used by developers for testing. | 23:19 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I know that asac from the mozilla team uses it to ask for firefox/thunderbird testing. | 23:19 |
| * faulkes- nods | 23:20 | |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: we could use that channel to advertise for our virtualization testing. | 23:20 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: I think that the forums could be a great ressource for the Server Team - we just need ways to leverage it. | 23:20 |
| faulkes- | agreed | 23:21 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: seems like you could bring your experience in that area :) | 23:21 |
| faulkes- | I think if it's presented in the right way, it will help not only build a larger team base but also drive adoption of -server in the wider world | 23:21 |
| * mathiaz nods | 23:22 | |
| faulkes- | I will have a word with the ubuntu forum team and be ready to report back for the next meeting | 23:22 |
| faulkes- | as a group, we can decide how we'd like to move forward, generate some ideas and interaction | 23:23 |
| mathiaz | faulkes-: that seems like a good idea | 23:24 |
| ScottK | In my experience, the experience level you see in ubuntuforums isn't the kind of people who professionally run servers. | 23:25 |
| faulkes- | from what i've seen, there is quite a range | 23:25 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: are you refering to the forums in general or to the servers target categories ? | 23:26 |
| ScottK | Forums in general and the few times I've gone into the server area it seemed similar but not to active. | 23:26 |
| ScottK | I don't think ubuntuforums attracts the kind of people we're looking for as a rule. | 23:27 |
| faulkes- | well, I don't think the server side has been pushed as hard for community involvement | 23:27 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: well. I can't speak of the desktop side. | 23:27 |
| faulkes- | alot of that energy is still directed towards the desktop | 23:27 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: If there isn't a lot of activity in the server side, we can't really judge on the quality there. | 23:28 |
| ScottK | IME server oriented people tend to be older and more experienced and would tend to us ML more and shy away from forums, but that may just be me. | 23:28 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: yes. I'd agree. | 23:28 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: But I don't think we should put the forums aside. | 23:29 |
| ScottK | I particularly think the culture of ubuntuforums would be unlikely to be appealing. | 23:29 |
| faulkes- | I think what we want is to help publicize the team and generate involvement | 23:29 |
| faulkes- | so that those who are interested come to us | 23:29 |
| ScottK | My experience on the desktop side is it's a poor place to recruite. | 23:29 |
| ScottK | I've made efforts in that direction for MOTU and gotten nothing. | 23:30 |
| faulkes- | and I would agree, but the desktop side is filled with a large base of inexperienced users | 23:30 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: right. But I think that the server crowd is different from the desktop crowd. | 23:30 |
| faulkes- | we are putting in place drivers to bring the interested to us and make us more open/transparent to the community | 23:31 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: this is probably why we need to find different ways to attract new contributors to the server team. | 23:31 |
| ScottK | Agreed. | 23:31 |
| faulkes- | and to be honest, sometimes even getting a new jr. admin in on something makes experienced folks look at it and say "you know, I never tried that, let me see" | 23:31 |
| faulkes- | but overall, I think our direction in terms attracting new contributors needs the involvement of the team as a whole | 23:32 |
| faulkes- | so we present a consistent message and framework | 23:32 |
| ScottK | I do think that the team is large enough that we need some specialization. | 23:32 |
| ScottK | Myself, I really only do mail servers consistently and so that's what I tend to look after. | 23:33 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: right. That's what we're envolving to naturally I think. | 23:33 |
| ScottK | If we had identified people in different focus areas, I think it'd make it easier for people to connect and get involved. | 23:33 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: sommer seems to be looking after documentation | 23:33 |
| faulkes- | I have a range and right now, all those servers are sitting with centos installed on them | 23:34 |
| ScottK | Yes | 23:34 |
| ScottK | I've got no idea how that happened | 23:34 |
| faulkes- | mysql cluster, apache, amanda, xen vm's, etc.. | 23:34 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: I'm thinking about adding names to each section on the GettingInvolved page | 23:35 |
| mathiaz | or may be list people part of the server team with their interest | 23:35 |
| mathiaz | that could be a form of the mentoring program | 23:35 |
| ScottK | One key issue from a team policy perspective is bugmail. | 23:35 |
| ScottK | Yes | 23:35 |
| ScottK | I find it extremely troublesome to be required to suck up all the samba bugmail that I don't and won't care about. | 23:36 |
| ScottK | As an example. | 23:36 |
| ScottK | Sending all bugmail to all team members just doesn't scale. | 23:36 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: hum.. You briefly mentionned it at UDS but I hadn't had time to respond to it. | 23:37 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: I think that's what the ubuntu-server team in LP is made for. | 23:38 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: we only use the ubuntu-server as way to deal with bugs. | 23:38 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: Now what this means that the Ubuntu Server Team doesn't equal ubuntu-server in LP. | 23:39 |
| ScottK | That's a bit obtuse. It's not a clean API. | 23:39 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: We could also argue wether the ubuntu-server ml is actually the list of the Ubuntu Server Team. | 23:39 |
| ScottK | Could we? | 23:40 |
| ScottK | I'm aware there's actually a Canonical Server Team (with ML) too. | 23:40 |
| ScottK | But that is and needs to be different. | 23:40 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: correct - that's for canonical employees and is used for specific reasons. | 23:40 |
| faulkes- | wheras we represent the community aspect | 23:41 |
| ScottK | Exactly | 23:41 |
| ScottK | So what is the ML of the Ubuntu Server Team? | 23:41 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: what I've noticed with ubuntu-server LP team is that altough we have more people signing up, bugs don't get triagged. | 23:41 |
| ScottK | Right. Lots of people sign up for teams because they think it's cool. | 23:42 |
| mathiaz | It seems that there is a misconception in the role of the ubuntu-server LP team (at least in my view) | 23:42 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: yes. And they want to be part of the Server Team. | 23:42 |
| ScottK | You'll also notice that Postfix bugs have always been triaged. | 23:42 |
| ScottK | That's because I did those even before there was a server team. | 23:42 |
| ScottK | So it works both ways. | 23:42 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: For me, the ubuntu-server LP team is a way to track the bugs related to the server area. | 23:43 |
| ScottK | OK. | 23:43 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: I know of you great work on postfix and I'm thankfull for that. | 23:43 |
| ScottK | For other areas (e.g. MOTU, Kubuntu, etc, it means a lot more than that). | 23:43 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: in your case, I'd risk to suggest you to leave the ubuntu-server team and set yourself as a bug contact for postfix | 23:44 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: but again it doesn't mean you're not a member of the Ubuntu Server Team | 23:44 |
| ScottK | I am and have been a bug contact for a long time. | 23:44 |
| ScottK | Maybe we could have ubuntu-server Team and ubuntu-server-bugs. | 23:45 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: so if you don't want to receive the bugs for samba, you could just leave the team. | 23:45 |
| ScottK | That's how Ubuntu does it. | 23:45 |
| ScottK | Agreed, but it feels like leaving the "Team" then. | 23:45 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: but that doesn't solve the problem of being a member of the team. | 23:45 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: agreed. | 23:45 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: May be two teams would be a proper solution to this then. | 23:46 |
| ScottK | So I'm suggesting we make a team called ubuntu-server-bugs. People join that to get all the bugmail. | 23:46 |
| mathiaz | And we'd keep ubuntu-server to keep track of people that are member of the Ubuntu Server Team. | 23:47 |
| ScottK | Yes | 23:47 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: another option is to create an ubuntu-server-bugs ml and use it as the bugmail address for ubuntu-server | 23:47 |
| ScottK | That'd be fine too. | 23:47 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: people interested in receiving bugs for ubuntu-server should subscribed to it. | 23:47 |
| ScottK | Yes | 23:48 |
| ScottK | People interested only in certain packages subscribe for bugs to those. | 23:48 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: so I wonder if we should change the criteria to be part of ubuntu-server then | 23:48 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: one of the reason for having such a low barries for approval is to get more people to receive bug mails. | 23:49 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: and hopefully get them triagged. | 23:49 |
| ScottK | I think you're better off to get people who are interested in triaging. | 23:49 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: obviously that target failed. | 23:49 |
| ScottK | I think if you want to encourage that, add a section to the meeting to commend community triagers who've done something of note. | 23:50 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: good point. | 23:50 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: but then should we change the critirea to be approved in ubuntu-server ? | 23:51 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: right now you just have to sign up on a mailing list and that's that's all | 23:51 |
| ScottK | I think that's enough. | 23:51 |
| ScottK | People will read about meetings and activities and gravitate to where their interests and capabilities lay. | 23:52 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: right. | 23:53 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: that seems like good ideas. I'll write an email to ubuntu-server with a proposal for these changes. | 23:54 |
| ScottK | Great. | 23:55 |
| ScottK | mathiaz: I've got a bit of an off topic question for you. | 23:55 |
| ScottK | mathiaz: I saw your core-dev interview with the tech board got scheduled today (1 day after the MC approved you). | 23:56 |
| ScottK | mathiaz: Was there a rush on your application for some reason? | 23:56 |
| ScottK | mathiaz: I'm trying to understand why you got jumped ahead of a number of community members (including me) who've been waiting up to 3 weeks without getting scheduled. | 23:57 |
| mathiaz | ScottK: no | 23:57 |
| ScottK | OK. Thanks. | 23:57 |
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