[00:00] <mcr>  hmm. I'm trying to debug an install of hardy heron alpha on my spare laptop. ... it seems to have missed the xorg kbd and mouse input modules.
[00:00] <mcr> can someone with it running do an dpkg -S /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input/lib* ?
[00:01] <mcr> er, s/lib*/*.so/
[00:02] <crimsun> crimsun@Box:~$ dpkg -S /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input
[00:02] <crimsun> xserver-xorg-input-vmmouse, xserver-xorg-input-wacom, xserver-xorg-input-evdev, xserver-xorg-input-synaptics, xserver-xorg-input-elographics, xserver-xorg-input-mouse, xserver-xorg-input-kbd: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input
[00:02] <lufis> Is the displayconfig applet totally useless with the new xorg?
[00:03] <mcr> that solves the problem.... that doesn't seem to be a dependancy of ubuntu-desktop.
[00:03] <mcr> I had installed LTS 6.06, and upgraded.
[00:03] <mcr> I thought it was a good experiment, and I didn't have a cd burner handy to burn a hardy cd.
[00:05] <crimsun> hmph.
[00:05] <crimsun> I wonder if you had xorg installed.
[00:06] <mcr> it wasn't a clean apt-get dist-upgrade.
[00:06] <mcr> for a number of days, there was a udev vs dmsetup vs lvm2 conflict, which was unresolveable, I was about to report it tonight, but it worked.
[00:06] <crimsun> hmph, probably not.  I wonder, actually, if you had xserver-xorg installed.
[00:07] <crimsun> in Dapper, xserver-xorg depends on xserver-xorg-input-all
[00:07] <mcr> to resolve some other things, I had to apt-get remove some things, and try again, and then I kept installing ubuntu-desktop to get everything back.
[00:07] <crimsun> in turn, xserver-xorg-input-all would pull in those packagezs
[00:07] <mcr> I did have xserver-xorg installed, and X did in fact start.
[00:07] <crimsun> s#z##
[00:07] <mcr> but, X 1.4.0 can run without any input devices available when it starts... they are hot-pluggable :-)
[00:08] <crimsun> right, I'm not so much concerned about that as I would be with upgrade-manager -d
[00:16] <hmuller> crimsun: I spent a half a year or so in linuxfromscratch land, that was simple.  I can see I need to spend more time learning the distribution specific tools.
[00:49] <mcr> crimsun, is it likely that hardy heron doesn't have an ubuntu-restricted-extras package yet?
[00:59] <crimsun> mcr: no, it's unlikely that it doesn't:
[00:59] <crimsun>  Version table:
[00:59] <crimsun>      12 0
[00:59] <crimsun>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/multiverse Packages
[01:01] <crimsun> uh oh, we have a regression in 1.0.16 final.
[01:08] <mcr> crimsum, I couldn't parse those inversions (too many not..)
[01:09] <crimsun> mcr: it's an 'n', not an 'm'.  And:  hardy definitely has that binary package.
[01:09] <mcr> you are saying that hardy heron ought to have such a package, but the "uh oh" means that there might in fact be a regression.
[01:09] <crimsun> mcr: and no, the "1.0.16" string refers to alsa-driver final.
[01:10] <mcr> hmm. now it's there. I wonder if my mirror is behind :-)
[02:25] <DanaG> http://users.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/dmesg.audigyinsert.txt
[02:26] <DanaG> Everything on that device works, though -- at least, everything I've tried.
[03:38] <h3sp4wn> crimsun: In case it interests you - that new alsa-driver messes up my usb soundcard (Tapco Link USB) How much work or even for me just to hack it in would it be. Something to do with the sample rates not being detected or available. (I deally I don't want to have loads of custom packages - too much other stuff to mess with.)
[04:07] <antdedyet> anyone noticing screen blackouts with X in hardy alpha 4?
[04:41]  * DanaG wonders how CPU-intensive the "CM106(+)" audio chip is.
[04:46]  * antdedyet wonders when ubuntu's pulseaudio package is going support JACK again
[04:51] <DanaG>  Fatal: glXCreateContext failed
[04:55] <slackern> mmm hardy feels so snappy :)
[04:59] <xopher> mm, I should seriously do a clean install
[04:59] <xopher> my installation (based on hoary) is starting to get really slow -- I think
[05:00] <xopher> is hardy broken atm?
[05:04] <antdedyet> xopher: yep, if you use JACK it is.
[05:21] <DanaG> mmm, hardy feels so stucky to me.  i.e. Xorg starts thinking a key is stuck down.
[05:22] <antdedyet> DanaG: I have a similar problem on my notebook
[05:22] <Vuen> hey guys
[05:23] <antdedyet> [ 4984.708251] atkbd.c: Unknown key released (raw set 2, code 0xd5 on isa0060/serio0).
[05:23] <antdedyet> I get a couple of those a second in dmesg.
[05:23] <antdedyet> Started with Alpha 4
[05:23] <DanaG> I don't get that in dmesg.
[05:24] <DanaG> And a ctrl-alt-backspace fixes it.
[05:24] <antdedyet> I haven't felt the need to restart X.
[05:25] <Vuen> i just upgraded a kubuntu 7.10 box to 8.04, and it can't seem to login. it freezes while "initializing system services", then reboots X. anyone know what might be wrong, or what log files i could look at?
[05:25] <anthony> DanaG: I had that one day - went away after I clicked a few things though
[05:26] <Vuen> i installed kde4, and i can log into kde4 just fine, but i can't seem to log in to kde3.
[05:28] <Vuen> anyone know where kde's log files are stored? xorg.0.log and kdm.log have nothing of interest
[05:29] <antdedyet> Vuen: I'm not sure, but you might check ~/.xsession-errors for output
[05:29] <Vuen> ah perfect, thanks
[05:31] <antdedyet> Vuen: np
[05:32] <Vuen> hmm, says "can't contact kdeinit". that's bad.
[05:32] <Vuen> i'm thinking i should just purge a package and reinstall... but which one?
[05:33] <antdedyet> Vuen: I think it'd be the 'kde' pkg?
[05:33] <antdedyet> Vuen: it will likely complain about dependencies needing the pkg and won't allow you without a force.
[05:34] <antdedyet> Vuen: but I run gnome most of the time ...
[05:34] <Vuen> actually it's telling me the 'kde' package isn't installed.
[05:34] <Vuen> maybe that's the problem, ha
[05:35] <antdedyet> Vuen:  you may not be able to run kde3 + 4 simultaneously ... but try. :)
[05:35] <Vuen> yeah, i think that's the problem
[05:35] <Vuen> maybe it didn't like the fact that i had both installed... then when i uninstalled kde4 it removed parts of 3
[05:36] <Vuen> i was bored and felt like testing, so i basically did sed 's/gutsy/hardy/g' /etc/apt/sources.list && apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade && apt-get install kde4
[05:36] <Vuen> so i was basically asking it to break
[05:37] <antdedyet> Hehe.
[05:37] <h3sp4wn> I tried it a few weeks ago and it was unusable for me
[05:37] <Vuen> it downloaded about 1.7gb of stuff
[05:38] <Vuen> and surprisingly it worked perfectly fine, kde4 that is
[05:38] <Vuen> i found it pretty empty in terms of features though
[05:40] <Vuen> switching back to kde3 is what's giving me problems
[05:42] <Vuen> alright, installed kde and still no help, gonna try a reboot
[05:42] <h3sp4wn> I guess I was messing around with the xrandr 1.2 stuff and that was totally screwed
[05:42] <Vuen> wish me luck
[05:43] <h3sp4wn> I think there should be a version provded that just conflicts
[05:50] <Vuen> blarg, doesn't work. .xsession-errors says "Communication error with launcher. Exiting!"
[05:51] <h3sp4wn> You didn't do a huge upgrade whilst still in X by chance ? (That akways seems to cauce issues for people)
[05:52] <h3sp4wn> Well actually not always never for me at least
[05:52] <Vuen> yep, i definitely did :)
[06:00] <antdedyet> I do my upgrades in X :)
[06:00] <antdedyet> at least one the notebook
[06:00] <Vuen> well, she's definitely busted. ah well, 1am; sleep now, fix later.
[06:00] <Vuen> night all
[06:01] <antdedyet> night Vu
[06:05] <h3sp4wn> I wish I could get some sleep but I have trashed one of my ribs which means if I lie in a bed it takes me 4 hours to get out
[06:06] <h3sp4wn> and I have to see someone in 2.5h
[06:10] <antdedyet> h3sp4wn: ouch, ribbage errors suck.
[06:15] <antdedyet> Anyone have reference to a proper way to handle gnome launcher's such as synaptic's touchpad program?
[06:18] <DanaG> OOh, 60 FPS compiz-fusion while running folding@home!  Take that, 2.6.24 -- 2.6.22 scheduler is better (for me).
[06:19] <DanaG> And no more lag on unminimize.
[06:19] <DanaG> I think CFS sucks.  It's not "Fair" at all.
[06:29] <DanaG> http://71.9.52.25:8888/
[06:30] <DanaG> oops
[06:30] <DanaG> don't bother, wrong channel.
[06:33] <ethana3> i bothered ;)
[06:33] <ethana3> ..very nice
[06:36] <RAOF> DanaG: And people were complaining that we didn't backport the "just better" CFS sheduler to Gutsy's kernel before release :P
[06:37] <ethana3> why the heck would i need a new scheduler?
[06:37] <ethana3> was it broken?
[06:37] <ethana3> Did the solaris folks invade kernel trap?
[06:37] <ethana3> ^_^
[06:38] <ethana3> ...i really have no clue what kind of scheduler solaris uses, but i'd bet on them calling it 'just better'
[06:38] <TheInfinity> hmm
[06:39] <TheInfinity> anyone qho tried kde4 on hardy am? i have a dependency problem since alpha3 ...
[08:10] <ethana3> updates...  dash?
[08:11] <ethana3> is that a typo or are we getting a new shell?
[08:11] <ethana3> iiiinteresting description
[08:12] <ethana3> ooh, new ghostscript.  perhaps the Brother DCP-7020 will be supported properly now..
[08:13] <ethana3> new intel drivers, how exciting..
[08:14] <ethana3> i think running an alpha operating system is well suited to the way i think
[08:14] <RAOF> ethana3: dash has been the default /bin/sh for *ages*.
[08:14] <ethana3> fascinating
[08:14] <ethana3> i thought that was bash
[08:15] <ethana3> i don't know, i just paste commands into the gnome terminal thingie ^_^
[08:15] <DanaG> Ooh, "     o Added infrastructure for automatic printer driver download from       the OpenPrinting web site."
[08:20]  * antdedyet fails to get excited without the addition of JACK support to PA
[08:20] <ethana3> it's all on it's way
[08:20] <ethana3> the question is time
[08:21]  * DanaG wants emu10k1 surround, and at whatever resolution my audio SOURCE is at.
[08:21] <DanaG> I want my 24-bit 96KHz 6-channel DVD-A rip to play at that res and bitrate.
[08:21] <DanaG> Right now, my emu10k1 doesn't even do pulseaudio surround.
[08:23] <ethana3> i remember installing PA on hardy
[08:23] <antdedyet> yeah ... but JACK worked before PA!
[08:23] <ethana3> turns out, one of its main awesome uses.. is as a PA
[08:23] <ethana3> Jack could stream over wifi networks with no advanced configuration?
[08:24] <antdedyet> ethana3: feh, if you can't master your own music while JACK is non-supported, you don't have anything to stream over that wifi network.
[08:25] <antdedyet> I guess some day I will get around to figuring out why JACK isn't in main yet.
[08:27] <antdedyet> or pushing PA support upstream in apps.
[08:27] <antdedyet> which is kind of pointless if you use the philosophy: "if it ain't broken, don't break it."
[08:28] <antdedyet> or better known as: "if it isn't broken, don't fix it." :)
[08:30] <RAOF> antdedyet: For most purposes, upstream having ALSA support is sufficient.
[08:32] <antdedyet> RAOF: for an example with substantial user base that doesn't work without JACK: Ardour1 + 2
[08:33] <antdedyet> Or Hydrogen
[08:33] <RAOF> Yeah.  Professional-type music apps tend to like jack.  You should still be able to use them - try "pasuspender <app_to_run>"
[08:33] <antdedyet> plus I don't get the granularity of Jamin.
[08:34] <antdedyet> (when mastering a track)
[08:34] <antdedyet> RAOF: I will try pasuspender.
[08:38] <antdedyet> RAOF: that would be ok if the latency were acceptable.
[08:38] <antdedyet> RAOF: it produces major skippage during playback alone
[08:38] <RAOF> antdedyet: Yeah.  For *most* app purposes.
[08:39] <RAOF> I am aware that authoring/dj/etc is better served by jack, or native pulse support.
[08:39] <antdedyet> tons of buzz over the top of playback with ardour2.
[08:39] <antdedyet> RAOF: that is my point! jack was working great, hehe
[08:40] <antdedyet> last thing I wanted to see is another RPM or NetworkManager, hehe
[08:40] <RAOF> You can always turn off pulse - System->Preferences->Sound, disable sound server.
[08:41] <antdedyet> RAOF: Circa Alpha 2 that left me without sound entirely.
[08:41] <antdedyet> RAOF: will systematically go through the options over the next week or so an see what has changed
[08:42] <antdedyet> s/an/and/
[08:42] <RAOF> antdedyet: You may want to "asoundconf unset-pulseaudio" to change the default ALSA device to something that isn't pulse.
[10:13] <Le-Chuck_IT2> hi there. What is the program to regenerate /etc/X11/xorg.conf as the default ubuntu one?
[10:14] <Le-Chuck_IT2> it's not dpkg-reconfigure -plow xserver-xorg because that asks questions. I want to be sure to have the file that ubuntu would install to me
[10:15] <Le-Chuck_IT2> I ask this because, to add info to a bug report, I messed up mine using the automatic tools that didn't work
[10:15] <Le-Chuck_IT2> and I can no longer scale resolution down on my laptop
[10:17] <Le-Chuck_IT2> nobody knows?
[10:17] <Le-Chuck_IT2> if I run dpkg-reconfigure, it won't configure the wacon stylus
[10:18] <Le-Chuck_IT2> so it's not the one shipped with ubuntu
[10:21] <Le-Chuck_IT2> Ok so I will be more careful next time
[10:30] <hubuntu> Wil network manager 0.7 be included in hardy?
[10:33] <df7> hubuntu: probably no
[10:35] <hubuntu> see...
[10:38] <df7> pathetic not having VPN out of "box"
[10:39] <hubuntu> I know...
[10:39] <hubuntu> I don'æt understand that really
[10:39] <hubuntu> is just like the bluetooth think... no obex installed, but the applet still gives you the option to browse bluetooth devices (and of course it dopensæt work)...
[10:40] <hubuntu> * bluetooth thing...
[10:41] <df7> fedora have gui for setup cisco vpn or openvpn, but not pptp, i don't know if it will work with my ISP that way
[10:41] <df7> i maybe just switch to fedora... it have more features
[10:41] <hubuntu> I read about 0.7 supporting pptp out-of -the.box
[10:42] <hubuntu> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/improve-pptp-vpn-support
[10:43] <df7> well pptp package is on cd
[10:44] <df7> but its involve manually editing config files
[10:44] <hubuntu> but it works in fedora8 doesn't it?
[10:44] <df7> or maybe with pptp config... i have not tried
[10:46] <df7> same with pppoe
[10:46] <df7> but pppoe you can setup with pppoeconf
[10:49] <hubuntu> ppoe is built in hardy now by default
[10:49] <hubuntu> i was thinking under net man 0.7
[10:49] <df7> you mean gui setup for pppoe? where?
[10:50] <qzio> any known problems with sun-java6-bin package?
[10:50] <avatar_> java is broken for me
[10:51] <df7> yeah i see it in network-manager... have not tried... and it is not showing my manualy configured pppoe
[10:52] <df7> and gprs here too ... nice... i should test it
[10:53] <df7> can i have more than 1 ppp connections in network-manager? for pppoe and gprs
[10:54] <hubuntu> I think you can.. let me check
[10:57] <hubuntu> are you thinking hardy or gutsy?
[11:01] <hubuntu> well it seems bluetooth got even better with gvfs :) - gnome-obex-send is dead, long live bluetooth-sendto. @ http://hadess.net gives me peace of mind
[11:03] <awalton__> hubuntu, there's an experimental obexftp backend in gnome's zilla.
[11:03] <awalton__> *gvfs obexftp backend
[11:04] <hubuntu> gnome-user-share seems to have it built in
[11:05] <hubuntu> or not... I will take a peek at that
[11:23] <qzio> avatar_: yeah the sun-java6-bin-fsckup has crippled apt for me..
[11:23] <qzio> can't do shit :(
[11:24] <avatar_> qzio: hmm, thats not my problem
[11:24] <qzio> cant install/remove/purge/ anything apt-get install -f doesnt help
[11:24] <avatar_> java is installed
[11:24] <avatar_> only a few java apps don't work anymore
[11:24] <avatar_> most important, sun elom remote console is broken :(
[11:41] <picard_pwns_kirk> GNOME crashes every time I log in
[11:42] <picard_pwns_kirk> I already removed all of the things that I know that changed
[11:43] <picard_pwns_kirk> oh, my bad
[12:21] <gino--> i have downloaded and installed hardy, i got passed by bootup and successfully entered hardy by editing (hd0,1)
[12:22] <gino--> how do i fix hardy permanently, to always successfully boot everytime
[12:22] <Pici> Modify your /boot/grub/menu.lst to point to the correct drive
[12:24] <gino--> pici: what will i modify, sorry im just a newb
[13:40] <kn4rF> hello, is there anywhere a 8.04 changelog?
[13:40] <kn4rF> found
[14:19] <hwilde> !hardy
[14:19] <ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - CONSIDER IT TO BE PRE BETA (ALPHA) SOFTWARE - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[14:37] <gino--> having grub errors on ubuntu hardy, i edited the file exactly as what the ubuntu website said, but i still cant go to the ubuntu splash screen without modifying (hd0,0) to (hd0,1)
[14:37] <gino--> ayone?
[15:38] <zzats> Has anyone else faced synaptics touchpad configuration problems after the recent xorg upgrade?
[15:39] <zzats> I'm having them, and I'm not sure if it's my configurations or xorg itself
[16:42] <tgelter> hey all, is it currently possible to use the nvidia driver with hardy?
[16:43] <tgelter> I encounter errors when I try to install nvidia-glx-new. I also am unable to load the nvidia kernel module after a successful install of the driver straight from nvidia
[16:55] <Assid> heya
[16:55] <joerlend_> does anyone here run hardy in vmware workstation? I've had some problems with it. It seems to run extremely slow.
[16:56] <Assid> im trying to  install alpha4
[16:57] <Assid> the partitioner keeps hanging up on me
[16:59] <Assid> the partition manager hangs if i set it to dont_use
[16:59] <Assid> crap
[17:00] <Assid> can someone report this for me please
[17:01] <hydrogen> !launchpad | Assid
[17:02] <ubotu> Assid: Launchpad is a collection of development services for Open Source projects. It's Ubuntu's bug tracker, and much more; see https://launchpad.net/
[17:03] <Assid> hydrogen: yeah im aware of it.. but am trying to install this
[17:04] <hydrogen> and if it's not working, you should file a bug
[17:04] <Assid> last time i tried to make a report.. i think i went to some other project
[17:04] <Assid> yeah i normally report apport bugs tho
[17:04] <hydrogen> then I'd suggest reporting it to the right project
[17:04] <hydrogen> and if you are not capable of that, I would suggest that you use gutsy
[17:05] <Assid> nah.. gutsy is worse than hardy at times
[17:05] <hydrogen> how would you know that? you can't even install it
[17:06] <Assid> err. i have.. im using hardy on my laptop.. i just dont open new bugs without apport anymore.. last time i marked in ubuntu as [hardy] in the subject.. i dont think it was looked into
[17:06] <Assid> oh damn.. i think i marked in the main ubuntu tree thats why
[17:06] <Assid> oh well
[17:09] <Assid> bah was targetted for the alpha cds apparently.. but never done
[17:13] <Assid> gotta love the ubuntu -desktop live cd install
[17:13] <Assid> does everything in the background.. and you can just chill
[17:14] <Assid> hydrogen: any better irc clients out there besides kvirc ? and any better messenger clients than kopete/pidgin
[17:14] <Assid> pidgin would be nice if it allows you some kind of customizations like disabling/show grouping
[17:16] <Assid> must say tho.. ubuntu looks better on an lcd than it does on crt
[17:18] <Assid> err.. 2nd time i installed alpha4 on this machine.. and 2nd time its stuck at scanning the apt mirror
[17:19] <joerlend_> are you connected to a network that isn't linked to the internet?
[17:19] <Assid> err.. im online as we speak
[17:19] <Assid> same machine
[17:19] <Assid> it just sits there
[17:20] <joerlend_> check to make sure your repositories are available.
[17:21] <Assid> hrmm crap.. i m on my slow connection atm
[17:21] <Assid> think thats why
[17:21] <Assid> umm.. if i swich routes.. will apt continue from where it is
[17:22] <Assid> yeah.. thats why.. now i guess i gotta wait it out
[17:22] <Assid> is there a way to subscribe to a bug.. but not get emails everytime its updated?
[17:23] <Assid> i  sit and report soo much (mainly cause i dont have much work pending with me atm) that i get over 100 emails a day or so
[17:23] <Assid> err brb
[17:24] <Assid> found one more bug
[17:24] <Assid> it catches the clock of the computer as UTC.. for some weird reason
[17:25] <Assid> clock preferences is messedup i put location bombay.. and it says im in karachi timezone
[17:27] <Assid> will report this bug..let me reboot first
[17:27] <h3sp4wn> ethana3: dash has been /bin/sh for ages
[17:28] <h3sp4wn> Damn I was scrolled loads up forget that
[17:28] <joerlend_> :)
[17:32] <zzats_> has anyone got xmms-flac working?
[17:32] <zzats_> or is there a reason the input plugin is not available with the name xmms-flac ?
[17:33] <h3sp4wn> Why not use gstreamer or xine based they sound alot better anyway
[17:34] <zzats_> I find the medialib-programs repulsive
[17:36] <h3sp4wn> There is some cli ones that use those backends anyway
[17:37] <zzats_> some of us prefer graphical interfaces :)
[17:56] <h3sp4wn> Anyone using a HP 8710w
[18:04] <tgelter> if I've run into a problem installing the nvidia driver when updating from gutsy to hardy, what can I do to get to a good state? can I load an install cd with the rescue option?
[18:04] <tgelter> or is there a better way?
[18:04] <tgelter> neither the binary from nvidia works, nor the nvidia-glx-new package
[18:04] <tgelter> (this is on a laptop with an nvidia quadro)
[18:07] <h3sp4wn> (HP 8710w ? I hope not just bought one a few days ago)
[18:07] <tgelter> naw, it's a t61
[18:20] <rzr> hi any hardy users around w/ radeon video hardware ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/atitvout/+bug/189393
[18:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189393 in atitvout "TV not detected with Radeon IGP 320M" [Undecided,New]
[18:23] <hit> rzr, yes
[18:23] <hit> +1
[18:25] <dr-raku> kubuntu requests my password for mounting a local partition and, being the only user of this computer, i want to modify this behaviour - making the partition auto-mountable without a password request from kubuntu; can anybody, please, help?
[18:28] <dr-raku> are both kcontrol and systemsettings broken for the "disks & filesystems" applet/module?
[18:29] <dr-raku> can anybody, please, help?
[18:29] <rzr> hit: can you test atitvout ?
[18:29] <hit> nope
[18:29] <arcticpenguin380> is the package importing done from sid
[18:31] <h3sp4wn> main would have
[18:32] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, are you mounting with sudo?
[18:33] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: nope; i configured the mounting from gui/kde; i haven't do it in cli, nor modified fstab :|
[18:34] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, then your using gksu (or kde equiv). You'll probably have to modify the sudo configuration file
[18:35] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: modify it not to ask for password at all (for my user)? this ca be dangerous, isn't it?
[18:35] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: btw, it's kdesu :)
[18:37] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, no modify the /etc/sudoers file so it doesn't ask for your password to do admin tasks. I'd still call it dangerous though
[18:38] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: well, that's what i [at least tryied to] said
[18:39] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, sorry I don't get to speak english often
[18:39] <dr-raku> it is a dangerous "thing" to let ME [ :)) ] -> my user to do everything like it's the root
[18:39] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: neither me
[18:40] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, yes it's be like activating the root account and using it exclusivly
[18:40] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, you could also just add the partition to fstab and use the user option
[18:41] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: so it must be a way to set the new "policy" thingie in hardy
[18:42] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: yes, that's a final "solution" to this; but i hope to understand where hardy keeps its "policy" settings.. just in case
[18:42] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, you don't meen selnux policies do you? They have nothing to do with it
[18:42] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: nope
[18:43] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: from what i saw until now.. hardy has it's own brand-new "policy" thing
[18:44] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, /etc/PolicyKit
[18:45] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, don't ask me what needs to be done to the PolicyKit.conf though
[18:46] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: thanks; i'll look deeper into that; (at first sight it's almost nothing - just a very little conf file: 410 bytes.. with nothing interesting in it)
[18:47] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, I'm slow to new things. So I hadn't even considered it
[18:47] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: thanks anyway; [or even for trying to help] :)
[18:47] <mrtimdog> Hi. Is the output from the rc scripts logged anywhere?
[18:48] <h3sp4wn> The thing is for such things to be used efficiently takes 8 times the sys admins]
[18:48] <h3sp4wn> If you don't really need it then its so time consuming
[18:49] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, man PolicyKit.conf should help further
[18:51] <dr-raku> webwolf_27: :) thanks again; i'll `man`
[18:51] <webwolf_27> dr-raku, np
[18:52] <JDahl> are there any plans to include gcc-4.3 with Hardy?
[18:52] <dr-raku> JDahl: from what i heard.. debian will; so, maybe; let's hope so :)
[18:53] <JDahl> dr-raku, I also found some Debian posts,  but nothing about ubuntu
[18:56] <dr-raku> JDahl: ubuntu is importing packages from debian [if i'm not mistaking]; so.. i belive they'll import that thing too [gcc 4.3]; i also want gcc 4.3 (i have 2 core2 systems)
[18:57] <JDahl> dr-raku, OpenMP for multiprocessor is also my motivation for wanting gcc4.3
[18:58] <h3sp4wn> I don't think they would want a new potentially buggy compiler for an LTS
[18:58] <h3sp4wn> Why can you not just use intels compiler
[18:58] <dr-raku> h3sp4wn: well.. "they" allready put the newest kernel in the new LTS :D
[18:59] <dr-raku> (and so on)
[18:59] <dr-raku> (do i have to mention gnome 2.21.x :) )
[19:00] <h3sp4wn> No but putting stuff in like that later in the cycle
[19:00] <JDahl> h3sp4wn, I actually hadn't given that much thought...  I should download their trial versions
[19:01] <dr-raku> h3sp4wn: and another thing: the fact that debian will use gcc 4.3 may count! if debian guys will manage to compile their packages with 4.3.. maybe ubuntu will make it too :)
[19:01] <webwolf_27> I don't have and smp machines so I wouldn't notice much differance :-(
[19:03] <webwolf_27> so time for me to go put the kids to bed. Night folks
[19:04] <dr-raku> i'm waiting for 4.3 to hit ~ in portage! when gcc 4.3 will be in ~arch (for the most used platforms: i386, amd64, ..).. it means it is stable enough :D
[19:06] <h3sp4wn> Probably be redhat who does alot of the work as usual
[19:06] <dr-raku> yeah; :) almighty redhat :))
[19:06] <Assid> heya
[19:08] <dr-raku> i have a [little] question:
[19:09] <Assid> little?
[19:09] <Assid> how little is little?
[19:09] <dr-raku> wil ubuntu *ever* include things like omnibook in the default install (or at least in the repos)? it happens that i (and others) have a toshiba laptop who's bluetooth stays off if that module isn't loaded (just to turn bt on)
[19:11] <dr-raku> and is not a good thing to tell everybody to just get that from svn and compile for themselves
[19:11] <Assid> well.. you could disable it from the init i think
[19:11] <Assid> and then start the service when you need to
[19:11] <bob__> Hi,
[19:12] <dr-raku> Assid: i had to get omnibook from svn and put it "manually" because there is no "omnibook" in the ubuntu's repos (and that module is not in the vanilla kernel neither)
[19:12] <bob__> when is he beta of Hardy expected?
[19:13] <Assid> ??schedule
[19:13] <dr-raku> and as far as i can see ubuntu's users aren't all very tech persons
[19:13] <Assid> hrmm.. whats the trigger for the bot
[19:13] <Assid> !schedule
[19:13] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[19:13] <Assid> there you go
[19:13] <Assid> ewrr
[19:13] <Assid> !hardyschedule
[19:13] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hardyschedule - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[19:13] <Assid> !hardy
[19:13] <ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - CONSIDER IT TO BE PRE BETA (ALPHA) SOFTWARE - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[19:13] <dr-raku> so it will be a good thing to build a package from "omnibook" for everybody (to try)
[19:14] <Assid> dr-raku: dunno mae
[19:14] <dr-raku> (if they have problems turning on wlan cards, bluetooth or the special buttons on their laptops aren't working)
[19:22] <dr-raku> btw, i haven't verified.. but maybe sombody here already saw that reported.. i have 2 laptops: one with ubuntu hardy and one with kubuntu hardy, both are last alpha; the battery in notification area (for the laptops) shows 2 batteries for the laptop with kubuntu and 3 batteries on the one with ubuntu (gnome); well.. i only have a battery for each of them :) is this a [allready reported] bug?
[19:23] <dr-raku> ..and only one of them [batteries] is correctly showing the actual status
[19:24] <DanaG> It is already reported.
[19:26] <dr-raku> DanaG: thanks :)
[19:26] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/177570
[19:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177570 in hal "[hardy] two batteries display when left clicking on g-p-m" [Medium,Confirmed]
[19:27] <dr-raku> DanaG: the hilarious thing is that the laptop with ubuntu (an HP) shows THREE of them :))
[19:28] <dr-raku> i dunno.. maybe two is a mistake, but three.. three is something to be sure of - "it's working" :))
[19:31] <Pici> Three is a magic number.
[19:34] <rubeez> hi all..is there an awn-applet package for Hardy
[19:36] <dr-raku> one thing [i think] i noticed during the last update (for the repos - in adept) was.. it donloaded a 2.6.24-7 kernel and a 1.0.16RC[maybe `pre`] alsa, but uname and /proc/asound/verion are showing me the same values: 2.6.24-5 (for the kernel) and 1.0.15 for alsa; wel.. my intel hda have only PCM volume slider (no master volume) and mute doesn't really mute the sound :| what about the version showed during the update? why aren't the kernel and alsa
[19:36] <dr-raku> updated?
[19:45] <dr-raku> i forgot to mention: i restarted after the update
[19:57] <dr-raku> so.. nobody has any ideea on what was showing the update (but it didn't actually updated)?
[19:58] <DanaG> Oh, I noticed that too; to get the new alsa, I had to build it from the alsa-source package.
[20:01] <dr-raku> DanaG: i avoid compiling things to let the package manager do its job; that's why i have chosen a binary distro this time
[20:01] <DanaG> When you compile (easiest with module-assistant), the modules will be packaged.
[20:01] <dr-raku> and.. the only thing i did compiled is "omnibook" module (to get bluetooth on and use my bluetooth mouse)
[20:02] <arcticpenguin380> how do i enable the nvidia driver
[20:03] <dr-raku> install nvidia-glx; it depends on your chip, arcticpenguin380
[20:03] <dr-raku> you may need nvidia-glx-new..
[20:03] <arcticpenguin380> i did install it
[20:03] <arcticpenguin380> glx-new
[20:04] <dr-raku> then sudo nvidia-xconfig
[20:04] <arcticpenguin380> ok
[20:06] <dr-raku> DanaG: you said something about packaging what i compiled? i want to do this with that "omnibook" module; where can i get the info on how to do that?
[20:06] <dr-raku> (i'm kinda new to debian/ubuntu)
[20:06] <Pici> !newpackage
[20:06] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages for information on getting a package integrated into Ubuntu - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment - See also !backports
[20:06] <dr-raku> Pici: thanks :)
[20:07] <DanaG> I don't think module-assistant (which is what I used) uses the svn version.
[20:09] <dr-raku> i'll dig for it; DanaG, have you installed that "omnibook" module too?
[20:09] <DanaG> I don't have a use for it on my laptop.
[20:09] <DanaG> Oh, and module-assistant is a package.
[20:09] <dr-raku> DanaG: you're lucky then
[20:14] <Assid> hrmm is there a vnc server or something for gnome
[20:14] <Assid> like how kde allows you to manage invitations
[20:14] <Pici> vino
[20:15] <Pici> Or just use the built-in Remote Desktop
[20:15] <Assid> there is one?
[20:15] <Assid> err where is it?
[20:17] <Assid> okay i got it enabled in preferances..now i gotta check it
[20:18] <Assid> works on vnc right?
[20:19] <Pici> Yep.
[20:20] <ubuntu_> hola!
[20:20] <ubuntu_> holaaa victor
[20:21] <ubuntu> hola que tal estás Sonia?
[20:21] <ubuntu_> bien aki aburria
[20:21] <ubuntu_> x
[20:22] <ubuntu> Sonia com va anar a les comparses?
[20:22] <ubuntu_> les comparses noooo el carnavall!!!
[20:23] <ubuntu> Ginés dile a la Sonia que te deje hacer algo, que ha pillado el chat y ya no lo suelta...
[20:23] <Pici> !es
[20:23]  * Pici pokes ubotu 
[20:23] <ubotu> Si busca ayuda en español por favor entre en los canales #ubuntu-es o #kubuntu-es, allí obtendrá más ayuda.
[20:24] <ubuntu_> como se cambia el nick????
[20:24] <ubuntu_> xDDD
[20:26] <Assid> some of the fonts i see.. even like what google uses.. looks kinda bad
[20:26] <Assid> those small ones
[20:26] <ubuntu> Ginés dile a la Sonia que te deje hacer algo, que ha pillado el chat y ya no lo suelta...
[20:26] <soni> jajaja
[20:27] <tumbleweed__> spanish sucks
[20:27] <Pici> !english | ubuntu
[20:27] <ubotu> ubuntu: The #ubuntu, #kubuntu and #xubuntu channels are English only. For a complete list of channels in other languages, please visit http://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[20:27] <soni> k hablassss tumble!!!
[20:27] <tumbleweed__> >:(
[20:27] <ubuntu> El Inglés si apesta a pescado con papas fritas
[20:27] <Pici> This is a support channel, not a chat channel.
[20:28] <soni> k penita eh
[20:28] <ubuntu> Sorry Pici
[20:29] <soni> where are u from tumbleweed?
[20:29] <PriceChild> !offtopic | soni
[20:29] <ubotu> soni: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[20:29] <Assid> hrmm
[20:29] <Assid> i have a usb wifi card
[20:30] <Assid> i want to start using that instead of my internal
[20:31] <Assid> how do i get it to show as an alternate net connection source
[20:31] <soni> byeeeee
[20:43] <h3sp4wn> well when its plugged in is it in ifconfig -a
[20:45] <Assid> nah.. but i found a link lemme check if that does
[20:45] <Assid> that does the installation
[20:46] <Assid> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/Device/TRENDnet_TEW-424UB_3%2e0R_%28ndiswrapper%29?highlight=%28WifiDocs%2FDevice%29
[20:46] <h3sp4wn> What is the other card ?
[20:47] <Assid> ipw2100 - built in.. but its wifi -b only
[20:48] <h3sp4wn> wifi takes ages messing with something like openwrt to get reliable or commercial grade aps
[20:48] <h3sp4wn> If I had known how much effort it would have been to get mine working I wouldn't have bothered
[20:49] <Assid> hehe
[20:54] <h3sp4wn> The linux drivers aren't exactly great for ap's either
[20:55] <Assid> no?
[20:56] <h3sp4wn> It doesn't have all the features of the commercial hal to start with
[20:57]  * DanaG uses dd-wrt on his router.
[20:57] <DanaG> It works wonderfully.
[20:57] <Assid> errr
[20:57] <Assid> ndiswrapper is not installed?!?!?
[20:58] <h3sp4wn> for what definition of wonderfully ? (I know neither Openwrt or dd-wrt have a reliable wds with wpa2
[20:58] <h3sp4wn> on broadcom
[21:04] <WorldBFree> ok i found instructions to install ubuntu 7.10 from an image on an hd, will these work with hardy?
[21:10] <h3sp4wn> I with a little fiddling made a usb stick that can boot hardy alpha4
[21:11] <h3sp4wn> How was you intending to do it using the full cd on the partition or just loading the  netboot
[21:27] <lz7> i'm back to hardy, fedora 8 have some strange networking issues
[21:28] <tgelter> welcome back
[21:28] <lz7> )
[21:29] <tgelter> so if I am trying to install a package that's failing out cause it's trying to use update-modules, how can I get it installed?
[21:29] <tgelter> I assume I can use the source package, but I've never done that before, and I'd likely be needing to edit the source as well
[21:29] <tgelter> which I can probably do, if needs be, but I just want to know what the common strategy is before I start banging my head against the wall
[21:30] <tgelter> :)
[21:30] <tgelter> oh, and the package I want to install is nvidia-kernel-common
[21:30] <bardyr> why?
[21:31] <tgelter> to be able to install nvidia-glx-new
[21:54] <dr-raku> tgelter: i use nvidia-glx-new; adept just installed it; no problems at all with nv-glx
[21:54] <neo22> Will I encounter any problems with my prexisting compiz installation after my upgrade to hardy?
[21:55] <tgelter> neo22: depends on whether or not things work like they *ought* to
[21:55] <tgelter> =)
[21:55] <dr-raku> neo22: read the topic
[21:55] <tgelter> dr-raku: I found out the problem I'm running into:
[21:55] <tgelter> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sysvinit/+bug/56021
[21:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 56021 in sysklogd "requires versioned Depends for update-rc.d with 'multiuser'" [Undecided,Fix released]
[21:57] <dr-raku> tgelter: i had no problems installing nvidia-glx-new; i think i'm lucky for not "suffering" from that bug
[21:57] <tgelter> well, that was a good learning opportunity for me, I had to get my hands dirty looking into a source dep and into the pre and post scripts
[21:57] <tgelter> (which I had never done before)
[21:57] <tgelter> so I guess I was lucky too
[21:57] <tgelter> :)
[21:58] <dr-raku> :)
[21:58] <tgelter> though I still don't understand why a call is being made to update-modules
[21:58] <tgelter> that still makes no sense
[22:18] <phixxor> what are the haps my friends?
[22:19] <phixxor> specifically, what's new in heron
[22:19] <mikeymouse> I have been running Hardy for 2 weeks now and found none of the problems the topic is about.. its been running so much better than 7.4
[22:20] <dr-raku> yeah, it's almost stable
[22:20] <mikeymouse> the only thing i have missed so far are the nvidia drivers
[22:21] <dr-raku> am i in an unique, happy sutuation here? nvidia works fine on my hardy
[22:22] <mikeymouse> sorry I meant they use to have the 3d drivers that you had to place in action from the administration
[22:23] <dr-raku> well.. i was talking about 3d too
[22:23] <mikeymouse> oh  thankyou
[22:23] <dr-raku> i got around 6000 from glxgears
[22:24] <Pici> glxgears is not a benchmark.
[22:24] <dr-raku> Pici: you're right
[22:25] <dr-raku> but.. without glx i only had around 1000-2000 (at a maximum)
[22:25] <tgelter> ah, so nice to have high resolution and compiz of course
[22:26] <dr-raku> compiz is kinda tricky to install/config for me [kde] :|
[22:27] <dr-raku> (and emerald su**s!)
[22:27] <tgelter> ah, yeah, I tried to install it in kde once...but only ended up using kde for about 15 mins and thought it wan't worth the effort since I knew I was bothered by kde anyhow
[22:28] <tgelter> it sucks getting used to an interface and being too stubborn to try anything else...=)
[22:28] <dr-raku> :) let's hope kde 4 will be polished in the near future (as right now it's awfull at best)
[22:29] <DarkMageZ> kde 4.0 is equal to a vista beta.
[22:29] <tgelter> awesome! my sound controls on my laptop automagically work under hardy! =)
[22:29] <tgelter> time to unplug my wire and see how wireless is doing...
[22:30] <dr-raku> kde 4 is <<< vista beta :)) (even worse than vista)
[22:30] <tgelter> actually, I guess that's what iwconfig and networkmanager are for...
[22:30] <segfault2k> hi! a question before update, hardy its broken in anyway? or its "usable"?
[22:30] <tgelter> segfrault2k: experiences will vary
[22:30] <zzats_> segfault2k: for me, it's broken.
[22:30] <dr-raku> segfault2k: read the topic
[22:30] <segfault2k> zzats_: thanks for the answer
[22:30] <segfault2k> dr-raku: thanks for nothing :)
[22:31] <tgelter> segfault2k: it's working great for me
[22:31] <tgelter> (after a small 1-hr battle w/ the nvidia driver)
[22:31] <segfault2k> i dont use nvidia :D
[22:31] <segfault2k> the only thing to have in mind before the update its my broadcom wifi adapter
[22:31] <dr-raku> segfault2k: my pleasure! hardy is intended for testing and nobody can assure you that will work on your system (or not)
[22:32] <segfault2k> im using linux since 2001, i KNOW its intended for testing purposes, thats why im asking if its broken in someway
[22:32] <segfault2k> btw sorry my english
[22:33] <tgelter> umm...*linux* isn't intended for testing purposes...
[22:33] <dr-raku> segfault2k: then give it a try and come back to tell us how was your experience with hard
[22:33] <tgelter> alpha versions of a particular distro certainly are however
[22:34] <dr-raku> that's the point of alpha releases: to get people [willing to "risc"] to test it
[22:34] <tgelter> out of curiosity, how many of the people in this chat are directly involved in the ubuntu devel process?
[22:34] <tgelter> (other than submitting bug reports)
[22:34] <dr-raku> tgelter: yeah, let's count the rised hands :))
[22:35]  * tgelter doesn't know what you mean
[22:36] <dr-raku> i meant you'll get no answear for your question
[22:36] <tgelter> why is that?
[22:36] <tgelter> I thought maybe you knew, I realize that not everyone is watching the screen or even around
[22:37] <dr-raku> how could you possibly count them? the devels should rise their hands for us to count them? :))
[22:37] <dr-raku> nope, sorry mate :|
[22:37] <smallfoot-> will 8.04 ship with ext4?
[22:38] <dr-raku> smallfoot-: hardy has 2.6.24 kernel, AFAIK; so.. there is [improved] support for ext4 there (if i'm not mistaken)
[22:39] <smallfoot-> ya, but default install?
[22:39] <achtung> how many alphas are there going to be for hardy?
[22:40] <smallfoot-> where is the roadmap again?
[22:40] <achtung> dunno
[22:40] <hydrogen> !roadmap
[22:40] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about roadmap - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[22:40] <hydrogen> diaf ubotu
[22:41] <smallfoot-> will 8.04 come with encryption?
[22:41] <bardyr> smallfoot-, alternativ cd already has encryption
[22:42] <arcticpenguin380> is ext4 compiled in the kernel?
[22:42] <smallfoot-> bardyr, yeah but thats alrenative cd, i dont use it
[22:42] <smallfoot-> arcticpenguin380, dont know
[22:43] <smallfoot-> and why dont they put the alternative install on the normal cd?
[22:43] <smallfoot-> so its just 1 cd istnead of 2
[22:45] <dr-raku> maybe the only thing i will install (/compile) is the kernel; too bad the default kernel isn't compiled with that "config" option in (to read it from /proc/config.gz)
[22:46] <smallfoot-> where is hardy roadmap?
[22:47] <dr-raku> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[22:47] <smallfoot-> thanks
[22:47] <dr-raku> np
[22:49] <dr-raku> see you, guys! i gotta go
[22:55] <arcticpenguin380> shit
[22:59] <lz7> when i start firefox i can see for some milliseconds artefacts on desktop, white lines, just before firefox window will open
[23:00] <segfault2k> exists an alternative to knetworkmanager?
[23:00] <segfault2k> i have problems with it, it stuck at 57% with a wep wlan internet
[23:01] <RyanPrior> When I use the Driver Setup to install the ATI video driver, X won't start. How can I figure out what the problem is and how to fix it or report it?
[23:02] <lz7> look into xorg log file
[23:02] <RyanPrior> Where is that?
[23:03] <tgelter> does hardy still load extra modules according to /etc/modules?
[23:03] <RyanPrior> find /var/log | grep xorg doesn't show anything
[23:03] <lz7> wait
[23:03] <lz7> /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[23:06] <segfault2k> nobody knows an alternative to knetworkmanager to manage wifi ?
[23:06] <RyanPrior> I see a bunch of RADEON stuff
[23:06] <RyanPrior> But it says "direct rendering disabled", among other things
[23:07] <RyanPrior> Besides, the Driver Setup program reports that the ATI driver is not installed presently
[23:08] <lz7> yeah i installed my nvidia driver twice in hardy to it to work
[23:09] <crdlb> RyanPrior: which driver are you intending to use?
[23:09] <UnNaturalHigh> segfault2k, Wicd
[23:10] <RyanPrior> crdlb: whichever one the Driver Setup would install. It doesn't ask me which one.
[23:10] <mattfletcher> is there a simple test i can perform to check that i am running hardy? i ran update-manager -d but nothing seems to have changed
[23:10] <RyanPrior> I've tried installing it 3 times; it always keeps X from starting, and I need to reconfigure X before it will start again.
[23:11] <RyanPrior> mattfletcher: lsb_release -a
[23:12] <mattfletcher> it's hardy alright! where are all the programmes mentioed in the release notes? the vnc client etc
[23:12] <RyanPrior> I don't know. I haven't seen such a thing yet.
[23:13] <mattfletcher> maybe a fresh install might be needed
[23:13] <RyanPrior> I have been messing with the new firewall utility, but it isn't installed by default. You have to install it manually. So, perhaps the VNC client is the same way.
[23:13] <RyanPrior> Just because it's "In Hardy" doesn't mean it's installed by default.
[23:13] <lz7> applications->internet... maybe you have no links and should run them from terminal
[23:13] <mattfletcher> i'm sure i read that it was installed by default
[23:14] <RyanPrior> mattfletcher: in Applications -> Internet, do you have Remote Desktop Viewer?
[23:14] <mattfletcher> or maybe i'm a fool, and the entry "remote desktop viewer" was there all along
[23:14] <RyanPrior> Yup, that's Vinagre, the new VNC client.
[23:14] <mattfletcher> that said, remote desktop has a specific meaning in the windows world. should it really be labelled as such?
[23:14] <RyanPrior> I don't know, having never used remote desktop on Windows myself.
[23:15] <mattfletcher> firefox is a tool for exploring the internet, but i bet no-one suggested labelling it "internet explorer"
[23:15] <lz7> i agree apps should be called by names, and not like "instant messaging program" lol
[23:15] <lz7> mattfletcher: haha pidgin labeled instant messagin program in fedora 8 ))
[23:15] <RyanPrior> I disagree, personally. I don't like attaching cute little names to everything. It makes it hard for newbies.
[23:15] <mattfletcher> i'm all for calling them by what they do, but RD has connotations already
[23:16] <lz7> and evolutions is called "Email" in fedora 8 )))
[23:16] <lz7> evolution
[23:16] <arcticpenguin380> fedora sucks
[23:16] <hydrogen> thats fine
[23:16] <hydrogen> it allows users to find what they want
[23:16] <mattfletcher> that's silly too. why hide all its other functionality behind such a short name?
[23:16] <hydrogen> without having to learn the names of the randomest apps in the world
[23:17] <RyanPrior> I agree - I'd just as soon dispose of all this per-app branding.
[23:17] <hydrogen> Evolution can barely do email.. what do you mean "All it's other functionality?"
[23:17] <RyanPrior> Vinagre? XSane? Totem? Evolution? WTF do any of those names mean?
[23:17] <mattfletcher> kde used to list both, with an option to switch which was in brackets. dunno if it does nowadays
[23:18] <RyanPrior> Gnome is terrible in that regard. Waaay too much branding, and it's all for vanity.
[23:18] <arcticpenguin380> gnome is a disease
[23:18] <lz7> actually this 7.10 shows both labels like "pidgin internet messenger"
[23:18] <mattfletcher> kI kPrefer kGnome's kWay kOf kDoing kThings kTBH
[23:19] <lz7> i think kde is ugly
[23:19] <lz7> (
[23:19] <arcticpenguin380> gnome treats its users as idiots
[23:19] <mattfletcher> maybe i like being an idiot
[23:19] <hydrogen> hmm
[23:19] <hydrogen> lets get back on topic :)
[23:19] <smallfoot-> GNOME is nice and simple
[23:19] <hydrogen> feel free to take this discussion to #my-e-penis-is-bigger-than-yours
[23:19] <smallfoot-> KDE is just too much clutter everywhere, too much useless buttons and whistles
[23:20] <RyanPrior> KDE TreaKs IKs kUsers a LiKtle bitK stranKely k2.
[23:20] <arcticpenguin380> i dont use gnome because in striving to be simple it has reached the point where it longer does what i need to do
[23:20] <mattfletcher> anyway, is there somewhere i could record a comment on the menu entry for vinagre? it's not a bug i suppose
[23:20] <RyanPrior> ebut enot eas ebd es efl
[23:20] <smallfoot-> GNOME need what i need it todo, KDE on other hand provides so much unnescesary clutter that i dont need
[23:21] <RyanPrior> mattfletcher: If it's a usability problem, it's a bug. Otherwise you could propose a blueprint.
[23:21] <lz7> mattfletcher: in main menu applet
[23:21] <hydrogen> !offtopic
[23:21] <ubotu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[23:21] <arcticpenguin380> !ext4
[23:21] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ext4 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[23:23] <mattfletcher> can i do an upgrade that will leave my machine just as it would be had i done a fresh cd install?
[23:23] <lz7> mmm nothin taste like fresh install
[23:23] <Dr_willis> upgrades are not idententical toa fresh install.
[23:23] <arcticpenguin380> gnome treats its users as idiots
[23:24] <arcticpenguin380> gnome treats its users as idiots
[23:24] <arcticpenguin380> gnome treats its users as idiots
[23:24] <lz7> shut up
[23:24] <Dr_willis> the users will keep their home settings during an upgrade
[23:24]  * Dr_willis ponders the irony of spamming a irc channel  claiming others are idiots.
[23:24] <mattfletcher> Dr_willis: i realise that. my question is, is there a way NOT to do that, and to wipe everything, without having to download an iso, and burn a disc
[23:25] <Dr_willis> mattfletcher,  Thers some 'out there' ways to install.. but ive never done so.
[23:25] <Dr_willis> !install
[23:25] <ubotu> Ubuntu can be installed in lots of ways. Please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation for documentation. Problems during install? See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonProblemsInstall and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseNotes/UbiquityKnownIssues - Don't want to use a CD? Try http://tinyurl.com/3exghs - See also !automate
[23:25] <Dr_willis> theres the netbooting installs, debootstrap, and otehr  things ive never needed to try
[23:26] <Dr_willis> Not sure how well any of these work with  Hardy :)
[23:26] <mattfletcher> i was hoping for an "update-manager -d -amnesia" option
[23:26] <mattfletcher> never mind, will have to find a disc
[23:27] <arcticpenguin380> is alpha1 the same as being up to date on all the updates
[23:27] <Tuv0k> rephrase
[23:28] <Dr_willis> if you updated. you shoupd be up to date
[23:28] <Tuv0k> do people not know about apt?
[23:28] <lz7> what is it?
[23:28] <Tuv0k> see the topic
[23:28] <lz7> )
[23:28] <Tuv0k> ;)
[23:29] <Tuv0k> that question gets asked alot here
[23:29] <Tuv0k> like the hysteria when aplha 4 iso was late
[23:29] <Tuv0k> they refused the alpha 3 cd
[23:29] <Tuv0k> which is basically 4 after a one line cmd
[23:29] <pwnguin> is there anywhere I can go to see reports of ubuntu installs that worked on a given mobo?
[23:30] <pwnguin> my roommate's PC has given us massive problems, and im curious if it's ever worked =/
[23:30] <Tuv0k> why not googel the board
[23:30] <Tuv0k> with ubuntu in the search
[23:30] <Tuv0k> great place to start
[23:31] <pwnguin> i have
[23:31] <Tuv0k> no results?
[23:31] <pwnguin> plenty of search hits, but no results
[23:31] <lz7> what kind of problems?
[23:31] <Tuv0k> and what doe s"massive problems" equate to?
[23:31] <pwnguin> mostly grub says "read error"
[23:32] <mattfletcher> yay, bbc iplayer works properly in firefox now!
[23:32] <Tuv0k> cool
[23:32] <Tuv0k> pwnguin, does te livecd work?
[23:32] <pwnguin> yea
[23:32] <Tuv0k> then chalk it up to user error
[23:32] <pwnguin> the live CD works, and appears to install, but grub just dies
[23:32] <pwnguin> no
[23:33] <pwnguin> i refuse to claim it's user error when theres five threads on different forums complaining
[23:33] <lz7> what partitions you have and how many hard disks etc?
[23:33] <Tuv0k> complaing of what?
[23:33] <lz7> and where you installing it
[23:33] <lz7> o have issues with grub too
[23:33] <lz7> i
[23:34] <pwnguin> there's an ide drive and an sata drive on a core 2 duo gigabyte board
[23:34] <lz7> thats the problem, 2 drives
[23:34] <pwnguin> how so?
[23:34] <pwnguin> we've set it up before
[23:34] <pwnguin> on his last computer
[23:35] <pwnguin> grub doesn't even pull up a menu, just read error
[23:35] <pwnguin> read error 25 if i recall
[23:35] <Tuv0k> did you install grub to the mbr?
[23:35] <pwnguin> yea
[23:36] <lz7> well... you can try to read manuals, for manual installation of grub, or change your hdd config like removing one of the drives...
[23:36] <pwnguin> we've done all that
[23:36] <pwnguin> removed the drive, changed some bios settings, etc
[23:36] <Tuv0k> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=117271&highlight=grub+error+25
[23:36] <crimsun> h3sp4wn: do you have anything more descriptive/verbose than "messes up my usb soundcard" and "samplerates not being detected or available"?
[23:37] <Dr_willis> grub is a tool thats well well worth reading/learning all about. :)
[23:37] <Dr_willis> error 25. Hmm.. Not sure what that oneis.
[23:37] <crimsun> h3sp4wn: e.g., what would help would be "strace -fF -- aplay /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav" pastebinned.
[23:38] <pwnguin> anyways, im just curious if there's a DB I can go to to see if there's any positive reports for the mobo in question
[23:38] <Tuv0k> 25 : Disk read error
[23:38] <Tuv0k>     This error is returned if there is a disk read error when trying to probe or read data from a particular disk.
[23:38] <pwnguin> there's a service out there, surely the data lands somewhere
[23:38] <Dr_willis> that almost sounds like a drive controller issue.
[23:38] <pwnguin> right
[23:38] <Dr_willis> or failing hd.
[23:38] <Tuv0k> http://www.linuxselfhelp.com/gnu/grub/html_chapter/grub_13.html
[23:39] <pwnguin> not a failing hd; the liveCD can handle it and shows it installed just fine
[23:39] <pwnguin> but my theory is grub doesn't support it in the stable versions
[23:39] <Tuv0k> huh>
[23:39] <Tuv0k> doesn't support it in the stable versions?
[23:40] <pwnguin> meaning an update to grub in 8.04 but not 7.10 may have fixed the problem
[23:40] <Dr_willis> Live cd dosent boot using grub i thought.  -  But  this whole thing sounds odd..
[23:40] <Dr_willis> You could set up the system to boot the ide drive. and put grub on it.
[23:40] <Tuv0k> very
[23:40] <pwnguin> it's being installed to the IDE drive
[23:41] <Tuv0k> what filesystem?
[23:41] <pwnguin> ext3
[23:41] <pwnguin> nothing fancy
[23:42] <Dr_willis> i would be tempted to remove/disavle the sata on the  machine for a test.
[23:42] <pwnguin> we did remove it
[23:42] <Tuv0k> did you check the first link to the forums I dropped?
[23:42] <pwnguin> yes; we saw that months ago
[23:42] <lz7> not sound odd for me. i know for exaple, grub not obeying boot order of disks in bios, like it should to name disks hd0 ,hd1 etc... instead it uses phisical configuration
[23:42] <Tuv0k> have you tried another distro as a test?
[23:42] <pwnguin> yes
[23:43] <pwnguin> we nabbed fedora 8
[23:43] <pwnguin> similar if not identical problem
[23:43] <Tuv0k> wow
[23:43] <pwnguin> im grabbing the recent fedora9 alpha right now
[23:43] <pwnguin> DVD =(
[23:43] <pwnguin> anyways, remember that system test tool?
[23:44] <lz7> fedora 8 uses different scheme for grub install, i think it uses uuid and it allow to choose mbr or partition install
[23:44] <pwnguin> "is your sound working" etc
[23:44] <Tuv0k> yes
[23:44] <Tuv0k> have not seen that in a while
[23:46] <pwnguin> i was hoping it might still be active and available on sensible request
[23:46] <lz7> i was hoping about improvement about grub installation in hardy btw
[23:46] <pwnguin> lz7: was there a spec for it?
[23:47] <lz7> what?
[23:47] <lz7> sorry cant understand
[23:47] <pwnguin> did you see a blueprint for developers to follow on launchpad about improving grub in hardy
[23:47] <lz7> no
[23:48] <pwnguin> then its silly to expect it'll happen magically ;)
[23:50] <lz7> i have 3 hdds... in fedora 8 i was able to choose 2nd hdd in the list to install os and same 2nd for grub... and i have tried that in ubuntu, and it never worked
[23:50] <lz7> i tried hd1
[23:51] <lz7> and i encounter verious grub error with loading os
[23:51] <lz7> in fedora it just works
[23:51] <pwnguin> if it gets to the menu at least, i can fix it
[23:55] <lz7> well i know my explanation is not usefull, sorry, just emotions