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johnc4510-laptop | !schedule | 03:28 |
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ubotu | Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases | 03:28 |
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* pitti waves hello | 13:56 | |
* tedg waves back | 13:56 | |
pedro_ | hello all :-) | 13:57 |
pitti | Padre! erm, Pedro! | 13:57 |
* Hobbsee waves the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ around in greeting | 13:58 | |
Riddell | hi | 13:58 |
pitti | Hobbsee: hey, take care where you wave this thing at | 13:58 |
* pitti rubs his knee | 13:58 | |
* Hobbsee tickles pitti wiht it | 13:59 | |
Hobbsee | heh :) | 13:59 |
* mvo waves | 14:00 | |
Keybuk | Good afternoon all | 14:01 |
Keybuk | ok, that's everyone :-) | 14:03 |
Keybuk | i've put the agenda together here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-02-07 | 14:03 |
Keybuk | did I miss any items in people's reports? | 14:04 |
seb128 | yeah | 14:04 |
MacSlow | greetings | 14:04 |
seb128 | ups | 14:04 |
seb128 | hey | 14:04 |
Keybuk | we have a few action points from the last meeting to run through | 14:05 |
Keybuk | mvo: talk to Colin about using germinate to determine length of package support (3/5 years, 18 months) | 14:05 |
mvo | I asked colin about it, but got no reply yet, I will ask again | 14:06 |
Keybuk | ok, I will nag in my phone call with Colin after this meeting | 14:06 |
mvo | if the rules are straightforward (i.e. server seed = 5y, desktop seed 3y, everything else in main 18m) then I can probably get this done myself | 14:07 |
mvo | its just that I'm not sure if that is the official policy | 14:07 |
pitti | e. g. what will we do about langpacks? | 14:07 |
pitti | they are in main, but not in desktop, and it's not immediately clear how long we want to provide updates | 14:07 |
pitti | 3 years, I guess | 14:07 |
Keybuk | Canonical provides free maintenance for Ubuntu products as follows: | 14:07 |
Keybuk | * Ubuntu Desktop, Kubuntu Desktop, Ubuntu Server: | 14:07 |
Keybuk | Security updates and select bug fixes (18 months) | 14:07 |
Keybuk | * Ubuntu Desktop LTS: | 14:07 |
Keybuk | Security updates and select bug fixes (3 years) | 14:07 |
Keybuk | * Ubuntu Server LTS: | 14:07 |
Keybuk | Hardware compatibility updates (until next LTS) | 14:07 |
Keybuk | Security updates and select bug fixes (5 years) | 14:07 |
Keybuk | pitti: a very interesting point, we have never considered langpacks in maintenance terms before | 14:09 |
pitti | our practice is that we continue to upload dapper packs now, i. e. past the 18 months | 14:09 |
pitti | since they are mostly relevant for desktops, 3 years seems appropriate to me | 14:09 |
Keybuk | I've raised that with mdz and Steve George | 14:10 |
Keybuk | mvo: mail u-devel@ about improving u-n to warn about universe packages with known security holes | 14:11 |
pitti | that happened | 14:11 |
pitti | not a lot of replies yet, though | 14:11 |
* pitti promises to reply in the next days | 14:11 | |
* mvo sent it a bit late *cough* | 14:11 | |
Keybuk | ok, deleted from the list | 14:11 |
Keybuk | seb128: talk to Scott for updating pppoeconf-gui spec status for the feature provided by gnome-system-tools | 14:11 |
seb128 | I didn't ;-) | 14:11 |
seb128 | Keybuk: g-s-t does pppoe configuration now | 14:12 |
Keybuk | does that mean it can be considered implemented? | 14:12 |
seb128 | so should the spec be deprecated or implemented? | 14:12 |
seb128 | yes | 14:12 |
pitti | Status: implemented-through-the-backdoor :) | 14:12 |
Keybuk | I'd just say Implemented :-) | 14:12 |
seb128 | good | 14:12 |
seb128 | thanks ;-) | 14:12 |
Keybuk | tedg: talk to Scott and Mark about screensaver-review; this is currently way too underdefined for getting it into hardy | 14:13 |
tedg | I'm not sure that was captured quite right, I e-mailed the maintainer from Debian, and he didn't have any ideas for splitting things out. | 14:13 |
tedg | It seems like "arbitrary" is the only way to split out screensavers. | 14:13 |
tedg | (besides the obviously GL and non-GL) | 14:14 |
Keybuk | I assume we want to split into "ones we like" and "ones we don't" ? | 14:14 |
tedg | Yes, the "we" and "like" are the problem :) | 14:15 |
kwwii | couldn't we split them according to what they show somehow? | 14:15 |
MacSlow | everything that's not GL is for the bin | 14:15 |
tedg | kwwii: What do you mean? | 14:15 |
tedg | MacSlow: heh | 14:15 |
MacSlow | I don't recall any non-GL screensaver to be worth keeping | 14:16 |
kwwii | tedg: like, spinning, flipping, rotating things in one group | 14:16 |
Keybuk | this clearly needs some more discussion | 14:16 |
kwwii | zooming, panning, scrolling in another, etc. | 14:16 |
Keybuk | tedg: can you start a thread on ubuntu-desktop to begin the discussion? | 14:16 |
tedg | Keybuk: Yeah, I'll put a list in so people can comment inline. | 14:16 |
Keybuk | that would be great | 14:17 |
tedg | Funny how the stupid things are difficult. :) | 14:17 |
Keybuk | ok | 14:17 |
pitti | MacSlow: we still need to keep the 'just black' one for laptops on battery mode :) | 14:17 |
Keybuk | Riddell: from your activity summary, you're still blocked on KDE 4 seed changes? | 14:17 |
Riddell | Keybuk: yes | 14:18 |
Keybuk | Riddell: ok, I'll raise that with Colin | 14:18 |
Riddell | thanks | 14:18 |
MacSlow | pitti, agreed | 14:18 |
Keybuk | ok, first agenda item | 14:18 |
Keybuk | mvo: dapper->hardy kernel upgrades. A lot of people will have 386 kernels installed on their system. I would propose to transition those to the -generic on dapper->hardy if "uname -m" returns i586 or i686. | 14:18 |
pitti | MacSlow: and shouldn't we keep at least some for people who don't have GL working? | 14:18 |
mvo | any comments on this? | 14:18 |
Keybuk | mvo: did we install -386 by default on dapper, or did people get it by some other means? | 14:19 |
tedg | pitti: We offer a "free visit from MacSlow to fix your computer" :) | 14:19 |
pitti | lol | 14:19 |
mvo | I'm not 100% sure what the mechanism was, but on a lot of machines I have seen -386 is installed. I think the default was picked by the installer | 14:19 |
MacSlow | pitti, tedg: I would suggest the list-split like: "uses GL", "uses core rendering", "uses Xrender/cairo" | 14:19 |
soren | mvo: You could yank out the logic from the installer and use that to determine which new kernel to install? | 14:20 |
pitti | we don't build an -i386 flavor at all any more? | 14:20 |
mvo | we still have -386, but it build uni processor for example | 14:21 |
mvo | its a different -386 that we used to have in dapper, in dapper it was more what -generic is now | 14:21 |
pitti | oh, we do | 14:21 |
mvo | soren: right, that should work | 14:21 |
Keybuk | there's -386, -generic, -rt, -server, -virtual | 14:21 |
Keybuk | -386 being "crappy hardware" rather than default | 14:21 |
mvo | in dapper there was -686 too, but that one is easy -> -generic | 14:22 |
mvo | we also had -lowlatency in between, but that -generic now too | 14:22 |
Keybuk | I'd blacklist for the update, not whitelist | 14:22 |
Keybuk | ie. update for not i386 or i486 ? | 14:22 |
mvo | the only concern I have is that going from -386 to -generic may break the crappy hardware | 14:23 |
mvo | the whitelist idea sounds good too | 14:23 |
soren | The installer already has the logic to determine the most suitable kernel for a given cpu. Why not use it? If it's good enough at isntall time, it should be good enough at upgrade time, shouldn't it? | 14:23 |
mvo | popcon say we have 14354 systems with -386 and 380916 with -generic | 14:23 |
Keybuk | that's an interesting point | 14:24 |
Keybuk | is the logic complex? | 14:24 |
mvo | I will check | 14:25 |
soren | WEll... | 14:25 |
soren | It's not *completely* straigtforward, but it's robust. | 14:25 |
soren | and *quite* well tested :) | 14:25 |
mvo | is this still true with the live-cd? | 14:25 |
Keybuk | it seems that automatically migrating via some logic is a consensus | 14:25 |
mvo | or does that copy the live-cd kernel? | 14:25 |
Keybuk | mvo: live cd just uses -generic | 14:25 |
Keybuk | (I think) | 14:26 |
mvo | I think so too | 14:26 |
soren | mvo: The logic in the installer takes two things into account: | 14:26 |
soren | The set of kernels it has available, and what your CPU supports. If the installation in question only has the generic kernel, it'll obviously go with that. | 14:26 |
pitti | yeah, we only ship one kernel nowadays | 14:27 |
soren | I'm not sure which kernels are on the cd, but given their size and the struggle to minimize the iso's... | 14:27 |
mvo | ok, I will check it out, thanks for the suggestions | 14:27 |
pitti | soren: IIRC we have stopped shipping multiple kernels on CDs ages ago | 14:28 |
soren | pitti: Sounds plausible :) | 14:29 |
ogra_cmpc | edubuntu was the only exception until gutsy | 14:29 |
pitti | soren: just confirmed by checking .manifest and .list | 14:29 |
Keybuk | ok | 14:30 |
Keybuk | FOSSCamp and UDS Sponsorship proposals | 14:30 |
Keybuk | the deadline for all of these has passed, did everybody update the wiki pages? | 14:31 |
* mvo did | 14:31 | |
pitti | mine were all stolen from Jorge :) | 14:31 |
Riddell | where is the UDS wiki page? | 14:31 |
Keybuk | https://wiki.canonical.com/UDS-Prague-Sponsorships | 14:31 |
seb128 | Keybuk: jorge put the GNOME guys name on the fosscamp list and I'm not sure if they should also be on the uds one | 14:31 |
Keybuk | https://wiki.canonical.com/Fosscamp-Prague-Sponsorships | 14:31 |
seb128 | desrt, vuntz, gicmo that is | 14:32 |
Keybuk | they seem to be logical UDS candidates to me | 14:32 |
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seb128 | good | 14:32 |
Keybuk | does anyone have any last-minute additions they want to make to either list? | 14:33 |
kwwii | Keybuk: I would like to find some art-related people but i am not sure who atm | 14:33 |
MacSlow | seb128, Keybuk: one of the core-devs behind clutter also sounds like a good idea to invite | 14:33 |
mvo | Richard Hughes probably too | 14:33 |
mvo | (if he is not on the list already) | 14:33 |
Keybuk | MacSlow: do you have a proposal for which one? | 14:33 |
Keybuk | mvo: FOSSCamp or UDS? | 14:33 |
MacSlow | Keybuk, thinking about that for some days know | 14:33 |
seb128 | MacSlow: that's a wiki page, feel free to edit ;-) | 14:34 |
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mvo | Keybuk: fosscamp | 14:34 |
Keybuk | mvo: add him to the wiki page | 14:34 |
MacSlow | seb128, I know :) | 14:34 |
Keybuk | mvo, MacSlow: compiz people for UDS too? | 14:34 |
* mvo adds him | 14:34 | |
Keybuk | tedg: can you think of anyone to talk about session management with? | 14:35 |
Keybuk | Riddell: are the KDE people on the UDS list now? | 14:35 |
MacSlow | Keybuk, yes... I would suggest to try to ask David Reveman (Novell or not) for a change | 14:35 |
kwwii | Cory K should be invited | 14:36 |
Riddell | Keybuk: no, hang on | 14:36 |
mvo | Keybuk: I added Travis there and I second the suggestion of MacSlow | 14:36 |
Keybuk | MacSlow: -> wiki | 14:36 |
Keybuk | kwwii: -> wiki | 14:36 |
Keybuk | please get any changes done by 1600 UTC today (ie within the next 1h20) | 14:37 |
kwwii | right | 14:38 |
Keybuk | FOSSCamp team attendance | 14:38 |
Keybuk | There's no requirement that staff members attend both FOSSCamp and UDS this year | 14:38 |
Keybuk | who did not find it useful last year? | 14:39 |
kwwii | I personally did not find it amazingly interesting | 14:40 |
Keybuk | (this will probably largely depend on which sponsored people come to fosscamp, and which to UDS, of course) | 14:40 |
pitti | if David Zeuthen and Lennart Poettering come to FossCamp, I'll be there, too | 14:41 |
Keybuk | I guess from the silence, most people would still like to participate? :) | 14:41 |
seb128 | right, depends on who is coming | 14:41 |
* mvo nods | 14:41 | |
pitti | last time wasn't terribly effective for me, but it was still enjoyable to be around | 14:42 |
seb128 | same for me | 14:42 |
seb128 | vuntz, desrt and gicmo were there during the uds too and we had enough time during the week to discuss | 14:42 |
seb128 | depends of the people who are coming only for fosscamp and not uds | 14:43 |
* tedg wasn't there for FOSS Camp last year so can't really comment. | 14:43 | |
Keybuk | *nods* | 14:43 |
* MacSlow thinks FOSSCamp was good... but not enough Xorg/graphics folks around | 14:43 | |
Mithrandir | I found it useful in a relationship-building way, which is a bit hard to quantify. | 14:43 |
Keybuk | MacSlow: do you have specific people you'd like us to invite or sponsor --> wiki :-) | 14:44 |
MacSlow | Keybuk, I'm just doing that right now | 14:44 |
Mithrandir | meet up with people, have some random discussion on projects, pick up on clues on interesting projects, etc. | 14:44 |
pitti | ^ me 2 | 14:44 |
Keybuk | *nods* | 14:44 |
seb128 | right, which depends on who is coming | 14:45 |
seb128 | so not easy to say now if that will be useful or not | 14:45 |
Mithrandir | it also makes it so much easier to talk with people on IRC and email later, since they then know you a bit. | 14:45 |
Keybuk | I'll chat to the leads about this in my call, and see if we can come to some kind of consensus | 14:46 |
pitti | even talking to ourselves is well worth it IMHO :) | 14:47 |
Keybuk | UDS sessions - likewise now is the time to think about things to talk about at UDS | 14:47 |
Keybuk | this is obviously the things you'd like to tackle for 8.10 | 14:47 |
mvo | MacSlow: are you still editing the wiki or is the lock stale? | 14:48 |
Keybuk | Riddell: for you, this should come from the whole of the Kubuntu community | 14:48 |
Keybuk | kwwii: likewise, this should come from the whole of the Art community | 14:48 |
MacSlow | mvo, yes... collecting corret email-addresses of people I added | 14:48 |
Keybuk | I'd like a draft list by this meeting next week if possible | 14:48 |
Keybuk | that'll allow us to make an early public announcement with possible topics | 14:50 |
Keybuk | before we go into the detail of scheduling, etc. | 14:50 |
pitti | Keybuk: i. e. you want to collect ideas from us what to break^Wdevelop in 8.10? | 14:50 |
Keybuk | pitti: exactly | 14:50 |
tedg | Do you want a list or blueprints? | 14:51 |
Keybuk | tedg: just a list | 14:51 |
Keybuk | sentence or paragraph per item, depending how wordy you want to be | 14:51 |
Keybuk | UDS details I know: | 14:52 |
tedg | Keybuk: How long is mpt on leave? Will he have time before next week's meeting? | 14:52 |
Keybuk | * it will be in Prague | 14:52 |
Keybuk | * Mon 19th to Fri 23rd of May | 14:52 |
Keybuk | * FOSSCamp is at the same location on Friday 16th and Saturday 17th of May | 14:52 |
Keybuk | * Hotel conference area is a little bit larger than Boston | 14:53 |
Keybuk | * Sessions will be tracked again, and Desktop will have its own room | 14:53 |
pitti | oh, Sunday is free this time? | 14:53 |
Keybuk | * Schedule will be fixed before the conference; there are 2-4 spare rooms for "break out" sessions that can be scheduled ad-hoc | 14:53 |
Keybuk | pitti: yeah | 14:54 |
pitti | tracked> ah, good; the scheduling was excellent last time, that should be kept | 14:54 |
Keybuk | that's about the key details that I know | 14:55 |
Keybuk | oh, there's a fitness centre on the 25th floor of the hotel with nice views -- and a pool | 14:55 |
Keybuk | but the pool apparently has a "per person" charge to gain access to use, but does allegedly have a spectacular view over the city | 14:56 |
pitti | that sounds great | 14:57 |
Keybuk | ok, Any other Business | 14:57 |
kwwii | Keybuk: can you get the OOo icons sorted? | 14:58 |
Keybuk | kwwii: -v ? | 14:58 |
kwwii | Keybuk: calc needs to find the time to put them in bzr | 14:58 |
Keybuk | kwwii: I'll ask Colin | 14:58 |
kwwii | great, thanks | 14:58 |
pedro_ | i have a quick one | 14:58 |
Keybuk | pitti: I already have mpt's list ;) mostly because he was in the office on Monday when I was | 14:59 |
Keybuk | pedro_: shoot | 14:59 |
pedro_ | since brasero and transmission are part of the default release i just want to know who'll be the bug contact for that products | 14:59 |
mvo | MacSlow: ok, please let me know why you are done | 14:59 |
seb128 | pedro_: desktop bugs? | 14:59 |
MacSlow | mvo, sure | 14:59 |
seb128 | pedro_: I think there is brasero upstream guys looking to launchpad but I'm not sure | 15:00 |
mvo | MacSlow: eh, s/why/when/ of course :) | 15:00 |
pedro_ | seb128: ok, cool | 15:00 |
seb128 | quick one too | 15:01 |
Keybuk | seb128: yup | 15:01 |
seb128 | does anybody has an opinion on dropping the add-to-panel ubuntu change? | 15:01 |
Keybuk | seb128: what was our change? | 15:01 |
seb128 | that's not trivial code change and obviously upstream it not going to take it now | 15:01 |
mvo | what does the upstream one look like? | 15:02 |
seb128 | Keybuk: upstream has a list and we have a canvas | 15:02 |
mvo | one bit list with a single entry per applet? | 15:02 |
seb128 | yes | 15:02 |
seb128 | http://www.techotopia.com/images/d/df/Fedora_gnome_add_to_panel.jpg | 15:02 |
pitti | Keybuk: "mpt's list"? | 15:02 |
* Keybuk has no objection to either | 15:02 | |
mvo | hm, I think I like ours better, but then I don't want to maintain the fork :) | 15:03 |
pitti | seb128: where does our sorting by category come from? | 15:03 |
pitti | that seems to be much clearer | 15:03 |
Keybuk | seb128: I guess formally we should ask mpt when he's back | 15:03 |
pitti | i. e. do the applets provide the category on their own? | 15:03 |
seb128 | pitti: we patch applets .server to add categories | 15:03 |
seb128 | pitti: they don't upstream, we do add those for common ones but not for everything in the universe | 15:03 |
kwwii | seb128: personally, I like the list better | 15:04 |
kwwii | and it will look much better with the 2D icons :-) | 15:04 |
seb128 | one of the reason vuntz didn't want the change is that he things categories are confusing | 15:05 |
seb128 | he nevers know in which category to look | 15:05 |
MacSlow | mvo, done | 15:05 |
seb128 | and I've to admit I quite often look to several categories to find something | 15:05 |
mvo | MacSlow: thanks | 15:05 |
seb128 | Keybuk: ok, asking mpt seems to be a good idea, I'll do that | 15:06 |
MacSlow | Keybuk, if you want to take a look -> https://wiki.canonical.com/Fosscamp-Prague-Sponsorships | 15:06 |
Keybuk | ok, thanks all | 15:08 |
pitti | thanks guys, rock on | 15:09 |
mvo | thanks all | 15:10 |
seb128 | thanks | 15:10 |
* MacSlow needs sleep | 15:11 | |
MacSlow | :/ | 15:11 |
pedro_ | thanks | 15:11 |
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=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Fridge Editors Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | ||
Rinchen | howdy howdy | 15:53 |
boredandblogging | hello | 15:54 |
Rinchen | Think we have 2 minutes before start time if the clocks are correct | 15:54 |
Rinchen | @schedule now | 15:54 |
Rinchen | @schedule | 15:54 |
ubotu | Schedule for Etc/UTC: Current meeting: Fridge Editors 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 15:54 |
Rinchen | well | 15:55 |
Rinchen | #startmeeting | 15:55 |
Rinchen | and nothing happens :-) | 15:56 |
boredandblogging | heh | 15:56 |
Rinchen | that would be due to the absence of mootbot | 15:56 |
Rinchen | Ok, the old fashion way then | 15:57 |
Rinchen | Hello everyone. Welcome to the Fridge Editors IRC meeting. | 15:57 |
Rinchen | Today's Agenda: | 15:57 |
Rinchen | 1) Updating the ubuntu wiki (Rinchen) | 15:57 |
Rinchen | 2) Rejuv plan (Rinchen) | 15:57 |
Rinchen | 3) Common email submission between fridge and UWN (Rinchen, Corey) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuNews | 15:57 |
Rinchen | 4) Possible new theme (Corey) | 15:57 |
Rinchen | 5) How can we write news that doesn't always regurgitate other websites? (nixternal) | 15:57 |
Rinchen | First up, Roll Call! | 15:57 |
Rinchen | me :-) | 15:58 |
* boredandblogging waves | 15:58 | |
Rinchen | ping beuno | 15:58 |
Rinchen | ping sladen | 15:58 |
Rinchen | ping nixternal | 15:59 |
Rinchen | well, this might be a short meeting boredandblogging | 15:59 |
boredandblogging | lol | 15:59 |
boredandblogging | awesome | 15:59 |
Rinchen | I don't see Corey either.... | 16:00 |
Rinchen | there's mrevell | 16:00 |
mrevell | Hi! | 16:00 |
boredandblogging | hi mrevell | 16:00 |
mrevell | hey boredandblogging | 16:00 |
Rinchen | well, if you guys are ok with it, I'll wait 5 minutes to see if Corey, Martin, Vid, and others join | 16:01 |
mrevell | yeah, np | 16:01 |
boredandblogging | yeah | 16:01 |
Rinchen | odd, we did get confirmation from a few folks that they would be here | 16:03 |
Rinchen | well, while we wait, if any lurkers want to ask Fridge questions, feel free. | 16:03 |
mrevell | Yeah, Corey and Rich said they'd be | 16:03 |
mrevell | here | 16:03 |
Rinchen | mrevell, that link I sent you if for the original Fridge improvement doc. There are some outdating items on it. | 16:05 |
Rinchen | I was thinking of removing those and using that as the replacement for the improvement ideas on the wiki | 16:05 |
* mrevell looking | 16:06 | |
* sladen looks around | 16:06 | |
Rinchen | this was the internal draft at using django which we decided against | 16:06 |
Rinchen | and kept drupal | 16:06 |
Rinchen | hi sladen - it looks like we're missing corey and a few others so I guess I'll call it... and say we'll cancel the meeting due to lack of attendance. | 16:06 |
Rinchen | I'll continue the discussion on #ubuntu-fridge mrevell | 16:07 |
Rinchen | Channel is free... | 16:07 |
boredandblogging | ok | 16:07 |
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=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Fridge Editors Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Feb 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | ||
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=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 09 Feb 11:00 UTC: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | ||
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