| === Ketzal is now known as Ketzal_out | ||
| === asac_ is now known as asac | ||
| warp10 | Hi all! | 10:41 |
|---|---|---|
| === \sh_away is now known as \sh | ||
| dholbach | MOTU Q&A session in #ubuntu-classroom | 12:51 |
| dholbach | hello everybody and welcome to another MOTU Q&A session! who do we have here for the session today? | 13:00 |
| * dholbach is Daniel Holbach and seems until now to be alone in this session :-) | 13:01 | |
| * DktrKranz is Luca Falavigna, and please don't ask hard questions :) | 13:01 | |
| * dholbach hugs DktrKranz | 13:02 | |
| * mruiz is Miguel Ruiz... MOTU hopeful | 13:02 | |
| * persia is Emmet Hikory, present but slow to respond. | 13:02 | |
| * Hobbsee is absent. | 13:03 | |
| dholbach | it seems the MOTU Q&A session could do with some more advertising :) | 13:03 |
| dholbach | do we have anybody with questions around? | 13:03 |
| * slytherin is Onkar, MOTU hopeful and bugs persia and geser most of the time on #ubuntu-motu for solving java related problems. | 13:04 | |
| dholbach | thanks a lot for your work on that, slytherin | 13:04 |
| slytherin | dholbach: I am glad I could help | 13:05 |
| mruiz | dholbach, days ago I received a build error message: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/doc-debian/3.1.5ubuntu1/+build/502337. I'm wondering if someone could help me ... | 13:06 |
| dholbach | mruiz: great - let's take a look at it | 13:06 |
| dholbach | Build finished at 20080131-1850 | 13:07 |
| dholbach | to me it looks like it succeeded | 13:07 |
| dholbach | Status: Failed to upload | 13:07 |
| mruiz | the upload to the archive was rejected... more details: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/4339/ | 13:07 |
| persia | mruiz: You've caught an odd one: Failed to Upload | 13:07 |
| persia | These typically indicate some oddity inside Soyuz at the time of the build | 13:07 |
| DktrKranz | Failed to Upload, cprov's fault :) | 13:07 |
| dholbach | best to ask cprov or more generally on #launchpad | 13:08 |
| persia | I'd suggest asking a buildd admin to take a look on #ubuntu-devel (although bugging cprov on #launchpad is also known to help) | 13:08 |
| * warp10 joins the session a little late... sorry! | 13:10 | |
| dholbach | hello warp10 | 13:10 |
| mruiz | this package includes documentation, but it generates not only .deb files ... some txt files appeared | 13:10 |
| slytherin | I have one question. What is general criteria for approval of MOTU membership? | 13:10 |
| warp10 | hi dholbach and all | 13:10 |
| dholbach | slytherin: a good track record of doing good work in the team and usually the best indicator is if your sponsors are completely happy with your work | 13:11 |
| angelblade | :) | 13:11 |
| dholbach | when applicants ask me for my opinion as a MC member, I ask them to talk to their sponsors and get their input on the matter | 13:11 |
| slytherin | dholbach: Does that mean it is best to have most of your work sponsored by same person? | 13:12 |
| dholbach | slytherin: no, it's very good to work with a variety of people - as you tend to learn more that way | 13:12 |
| dholbach | that's why the general sponsoring process is a good thing | 13:12 |
| slytherin | Ok | 13:13 |
| mruiz | dholbach, indeed... we have to work with the team :D | 13:13 |
| persia | slytherin: I would recommend having your work be sponsored by many people. Ideally you'll start working on something in such a way that you are working with your sponsors as peers, rather than as sponsors. | 13:13 |
| dholbach | :-) | 13:13 |
| persia | At this point, they are typically more than happy to say anything good about you it takes so that you can upload on your own. | 13:13 |
| slytherin | And how do I decide when I am ready for membership? :-D | 13:14 |
| persia | slytherin: That's a little more well defined. You need "significant and sustained" contrinbutions, which is often interpreted as at least 2-6 months of stuff (depending on activity level), and attaining the respect and commendations of your peers working in that area. | 13:15 |
| dholbach | (if you refer to ubuntumembers membership) | 13:15 |
| slytherin | dholbach: No, I am talking MOTU membership | 13:15 |
| persia | (yes. one should wait for at least two sponsors to prompt prior to applying for membership of MOTU) | 13:16 |
| dholbach | if you refer to MOTU membership instead: ask people that you've worked with (your sponsors), look at previous applications | 13:16 |
| persia | slytherin: In that case, I answered the wrong question. | 13:16 |
| slytherin | persia: Your latest answer is what I was looking for. :-) | 13:16 |
| ScottK | I've found it's common for me to be pushing people to apply before they think they are ready. I've also seen people turned down that applied to soon. | 13:17 |
| ScottK | Waiting for sponsors to suggest it is a good idea. | 13:17 |
| dholbach | if it happens regularly to you that your patches are sponsored as they are, that's a good sign :) | 13:19 |
| persia | Personally, I think other good signs are MOTUs asking you for your opinion on various issues, finding that you have good answers to other Contributor questions, etc. | 13:20 |
| slytherin | I guess I will wait for few weeks more. :-) | 13:21 |
| dholbach | slytherin: It's great to have you on the team :-) | 13:23 |
| dholbach | do we have any other questions? | 13:23 |
| dholbach | no questions? :) | 13:26 |
| * Hobbsee is sure someone has a question | 13:26 | |
| persia | If there are no questions, all Contributors in the audience should go find a bug, and submit for sponsoring. Any issues encountered may be considered questions. | 13:27 |
| mruiz | hey dholbach | 13:27 |
| dholbach | hey mruiz :) | 13:27 |
| dholbach | persia: that's a good one :) | 13:27 |
| tuxmaniac | guess I am late.. | 13:27 |
| dholbach | tuxmaniac: no, not at all! :) | 13:28 |
| persia | tuxmaniac: Late is acceptable, as long as you have a question or want an answer :) | 13:28 |
| dholbach | if you have a question, fire away :) | 13:28 |
| mruiz | I was working on a upgrade bug... (rezound) and I discovered a strange way to package it. | 13:28 |
| Hobbsee | dholbach: i have a question. what should someone do, that is actually useful, if they can't get a MOTU to review their stuff - particularly a new package on REVU? | 13:29 |
| dholbach | mruiz: what's the problem you're seeing? | 13:29 |
| persia | Hobbsee: There are cases of that? Which package: I'll review it now. | 13:30 |
| mruiz | rezound directory only contains: debian rezound-0.12.2beta.tar.gz rezound-0.12.2beta.tar.gz.cdbs-config_list | 13:30 |
| Hobbsee | persia: i'm talking in the generic case - perhaps not so much now, but it certainly used to be a problem | 13:30 |
| Hobbsee | and probably will be, after ff | 13:30 |
| tuxmaniac | How do you handle problems related to upstream not ready to patch/create man pages according to lintian standards. Will Debian/Ubuntu always keep dpatching them? Or say upstream is not that active. | 13:30 |
| persia | Hobbsee: Ah. After FF. Hmm. I'll see about that somehow (and don't have an answer now). | 13:30 |
| mruiz | dholbach, for me is new . I expected rezound files ... it uses cdbs | 13:31 |
| dholbach | mruiz: it seems that they use tarball.mk (where you drop the upstream tarball into it) | 13:31 |
| persia | mruiz: You've encountered the dreaded tarball-in-tarball. cdbs-edit-patch or dpatch-edit-patch should untar to allow you to patch. | 13:31 |
| dholbach | tuxmaniac: it's perfectly acceptable to keep an added manpage as a patch if upstream does not respond to a bug that requests adding it | 13:32 |
| mruiz | dholbach, indeed debian/rules includes /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/tarball.mk | 13:32 |
| dholbach | tuxmaniac: there's no need to make it a patch, you can simply add it to the debian directory and list it in debian/manpages | 13:32 |
| persia | tuxmaniac: That is part of what MOTU does: make sure the packages meet our policies. If upstream will accept patches, that is good. If not, we have to carry them. | 13:32 |
| mruiz | dholbach, for this case, how should I package the upgrade ? | 13:32 |
| persia | mruiz: Best to check with the Debian maintainer to see if they want tarball-in-tarball again so that the orig.tar.gz can be the same and it can later be a sync. | 13:33 |
| mruiz | persia, thanks :D | 13:33 |
| dholbach | mruiz: I'm not sure it's the most elegant way but what should work is; mkdir reszound-<version>; cp -r rezound-<oldversion>/debian rezound-<version>.tar.gz rezound-<version> | 13:33 |
| dholbach | (and change the version in debian/rules if necessary) | 13:34 |
| dholbach | there's something that intrigued me about tarball.mk when I started packaging, but I forgot what it was and find it a bit annoying today :) | 13:34 |
| * mruiz prefers debhelper instead of cdbs | 13:34 | |
| dholbach | tuxmaniac: did that answer your question? | 13:35 |
| mruiz | dholbach, persia : thanks for your guidance ;-) ... | 13:35 |
| tuxmaniac | dholbach, yes. | 13:35 |
| dholbach | great | 13:35 |
| dholbach | any other questions? anything we should take a look at together? | 13:36 |
| * warp10 has a question | 13:36 | |
| dholbach | warp10: great | 13:36 |
| Hobbsee | dholbach: can i have a heater? | 13:36 |
| * Hobbsee is freezing! | 13:37 | |
| dholbach | Hobbsee: that's a good question - it's cold here too | 13:37 |
| * persia is happy: 18 degrees of pure warmth | 13:37 | |
| warp10 | I am packaging a software that creates an empty dir (/usr/share/locale) and lintian raises a warning about that | 13:37 |
| warp10 | Do I need to fix that? And if I do, what's best: using an rm in debian/control or patching upstream Makefile? | 13:38 |
| ScottK | Hobbsee: If you're test building stuff you've packaged, your computer will warm the room. | 13:38 |
| Hobbsee | ScottK: yeah, but i'd prefer a slight lack of fire | 13:39 |
| dholbach | warp10: it's definitely a good idea to find out what's creating the directory - to me it looks like it's lacking translations that are installed there | 13:39 |
| warp10 | dholbach: indeed. the po/ is almost empty, but there is a Makefile.in.in that creates that directory | 13:41 |
| === LifeHacker is now known as tuxmaniac | ||
| dholbach | /usr/share/locale is a good thing - so the better fix might be to find out why no translations are shipped | 13:41 |
| tuxmaniac | [repeat post] darn my network | 13:42 |
| tuxmaniac | there was a bug 189030. It was a sync request. | 13:42 |
| tuxmaniac | Build failed on hppa architecture, but still the status is Fix released? | 13:42 |
| tuxmaniac | or how does one resolve such arch dependent issues in MOTU. | 13:42 |
| tuxmaniac | [end] | 13:42 |
| dholbach | in all other cases it's acceptable to remove an empty directory (if you can't figure out why or how it's created) | 13:42 |
| Hobbsee | tuxmaniac: one doesn't care about hppa, unless one's name is lamont. | 13:42 |
| Hobbsee | :) | 13:42 |
| tuxmaniac | Hobbsee, heheh | 13:42 |
| warp10 | dholbach: probably upstream would like to add locales, but haven't been added yet | 13:42 |
| persia | tuxmaniac: Currently "Fix Released" means the source fix was released. You found a different bug. | 13:42 |
| dholbach | tuxmaniac: the sync was executed so the bug is fixed - that it fails to build on one architecture is a different bug | 13:43 |
| warp10 | dholbach: ok, so an rm in debian/rules would be enough? | 13:43 |
| dholbach | warp10: are there *.po files? | 13:43 |
| tuxmaniac | aah true. thanks dholbach persia | 13:43 |
| warp10 | dholbach: no *.po files there | 13:43 |
| dholbach | warp10: I personally would leave the directory there and ignore lintian | 13:44 |
| dholbach | maybe the next release ships translations | 13:44 |
| dholbach | in that case you will have to re-review debian/rules every time | 13:44 |
| dholbach | (and by mistake ship the good translations :)) | 13:44 |
| dholbach | (and by mistake *not* ship the good translations :)) | 13:44 |
| warp10 | dholbach: yeah, maybe. Good idea, I'll do that. Thanks :) | 13:45 |
| dholbach | no problem | 13:45 |
| dholbach | more questions? :) | 13:45 |
| shibata | I have a questiion. I have translated documents in packaging-guide package to Japanese, but it seems to be obsolete document compare to on wiki. Do you have plan to release new packaging-guide or other MOTU's documents until hardy release? | 13:45 |
| persia | Note that this makes sense for directories like /usr/share/locale which can be expected to be on a user system. For directories like /usr/lib/mypackage/quux/plugins/foo/ removal is a better option. | 13:45 |
| persia | shibata: Thank you very much, but no. The wiki is replacing the package. Perhaps you could put the translated documentation on the wiki? | 13:46 |
| dholbach | that would be great | 13:46 |
| dholbach | thanks a lot for the work you put into translating it | 13:47 |
| mruiz | dholbach, do you have a schedule (or deadline) for the packaging guide? | 13:47 |
| persia | dholbach: Have you filed for removal of that confusing package? | 13:47 |
| shibata | persia: Should I translate bese on wiki? | 13:47 |
| dholbach | persia: I'll talk to mdke about it | 13:47 |
| persia | shibata: If you have the time to translate the wiki instead, that would be even better :) | 13:47 |
| dholbach | do we have a canonical way of doing translations on the wiki? | 13:48 |
| persia | (of course, if there was a sane method to exchange email between Ubuntu and 携帯 it would be more useful) | 13:48 |
| dholbach | or would it just be https://wiki.ubuntu.com/<PackagingGuide in Japanese> ? | 13:48 |
| dholbach | how do you say PackagingGuide in Japanese? :) | 13:50 |
| shibata | Now, I translate on Japanese LoCo Wiki. | 13:50 |
| persia | dholbach: MoinMoin has some multilingual features: lots of boilerplate is autotranslated to Japanese from a Japanese browser. I'm not sure how it works though. Be nice to leverage that if possible. | 13:50 |
| dholbach | persia: I'll look into it | 13:51 |
| shibata | https://wiki.ubuntulinux.jp/UbuntuPackagingGuideJa/ | 13:51 |
| dholbach | thanks for your work on it shibata | 13:51 |
| persia | shibata: Until there is some reasonable documentation on the wiki about how to do proper multilingual pages, that's a very good place. Thanks again. | 13:51 |
| dholbach | I can't understand it, but it's beautiful | 13:52 |
| * dholbach loves looking at 'foreign characters' :) | 13:52 | |
| shibata | If translate on official wiki, do I use same way Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter? | 13:53 |
| dholbach | shibata: we could do that - I'll try to find out if there's a different way to do it and let you know | 13:54 |
| eradicus | cool | 13:54 |
| shibata | dholbach, persia: thanks | 13:55 |
| dholbach | shibata: thank you | 13:55 |
| dholbach | pango and gtk seem to figure out where a new japanese word starts, but it's hard for me to "see it" | 13:55 |
| persia | dholbach: That's OK. Even humans determine word breaks by context and meaning rather than graphical representation. | 13:56 |
| dholbach | yeah :) | 13:56 |
| mruiz | :) | 13:57 |
| === pedro__ is now known as pedro_ | ||
| dholbach | any other questions? | 13:58 |
| dholbach | if not, I'd take my dog for a walk now and see you in #ubuntu-motu later on :) | 13:59 |
| dholbach | thanks everybody for showing up and asking very good questions | 13:59 |
| dholbach | and thanks to everybody helping to answer the questions | 13:59 |
| shibata | thank you | 14:00 |
| mruiz | thanks guys | 14:00 |
| === Ketzal is now known as Ketzal_out | ||
| === never|mobi is now known as neversfelde|mobi | ||
| === \sh is now known as \sh_away | ||
| === crd1b is now known as crdlb | ||
| === croppa_ is now known as croppa | ||
| === crd1b is now known as crdlb | ||
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