[02:32] <swj> was the meeting today?
[05:28] <DShepherd> are the logs up for the meeting that was held today?
[05:28] <DShepherd> or yesterday rather..*depending on your timezone*
[20:03] <troy_s> Topic: Next Meeting
[20:04] <troy_s> Content:  Let's talk about docks and concepts that have more or less been in the Avant Window Navigator since its inception.
[20:04] <troy_s> *sigh*
[20:08] <thorwil> hi troy_s. to me, this is the lowest point since i have been on the list
[20:08] <troy_s> thorwil: You haven't been on the list for long -- lol.
[20:08] <troy_s> thorwil: Good to see you ...
[20:08] <troy_s> thorwil: Have you been busy?
[20:09] <thorwil> troy_s: i have been busy with not getting much done of anything :)
[20:09] <troy_s> thorwil: Good times.
[20:10] <thorwil> too many things i would like to work on and sometimes that leads to me doing nothing in the end
[20:10] <troy_s> thorwil: The list is rather mind numbing -- it seems we have a good share of people who can't take the two seconds to edit a reply down to the relevant quotes.  Better still, the one work all-lowercase response is ...
[20:10] <thorwil> at least my launchpad logo is done
[20:11] <troy_s> thorwil: Well that's good.  Did you push it to the submissions page?
[20:11] <thorwil> yes
[20:11] <thorwil> troy_s: right below yours :)
[20:12] <troy_s> thorwil: I was going to provide two -- one with the literal rocket (as the folks who are the 'art directors' generally are sooooo bloody literal that it is embarrassing) and slightly more abstracted simplistic one.
[20:13] <thorwil> troy_s: heh, that was my plan, too
[20:13] <thorwil> troy_s: but right now i can't be bothered to do a rocket
[20:13] <thorwil> https://help.launchpad.net/logo/submissions
[20:13] <thorwil> a not too bad rocket on the bottom
[20:14] <thorwil> only the fin in the back seems off, or is that just me?
[20:15] <troy_s> thorwil: Toyed with a few rockets.  I still might do a 1950s inspired retro rocket.  That said, the absolutely stupid decision to need 14 pixel representations is a crippler.  Rather like GNOMES idiotic 22 pixels.
[20:16] <thorwil> 14px = fly shit
[20:16] <thorwil> troy_s: your rocket looks fat and happy :)
[20:16] <troy_s> thorwil: Equals a really really brutal decision.  God... I need to de-egg that piece of crap I did...
[20:17] <troy_s> thorwil: It ended up fatter for a compositional reason, that said, I am de-egging it now.
[20:17] <troy_s> lol
[20:18] <thorwil> i just love https://help.launchpad.net/logo/submissions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=medigeek_LP192b.png
[20:19] <thorwil> cloned communists watching a military rocket launch
[20:19] <troy_s> LOL
[20:20] <troy_s> thorwil: Ok that is a hilarious descriptive take on it.
[20:20] <troy_s> thorwil: That said, I doubt I could rework anything like that with that degree of complexity - esp with the 14 pixel crap.
[20:22] <thorwil> troy_s: do you happen to know the name of that african tribe where the males sometimes jump in the group in a stiff pose?
[20:22] <troy_s> LOL.  No sorry.
[20:23] <thorwil> troy_s: just as i wrote the question i remembered: massai
[20:23] <thorwil> http://images.world66.com/ma/ss/ai/massai_dance_galleryfull
[20:25] <thorwil> or rather masai
[20:28] <thorwil> perfect: http://www.eaaircharters.co.ke/Images/Masai.jpg
[20:29] <thorwil> i have this idea of an abstracted depiction of this group jumping as a wallpaper - maybe just as boot screen
[20:34] <troy_s> thorwil: I have seen quite a few African stylized tie ins with Ubuntu, and to a certain degree I find the effort to be optically literal.
[20:35] <thorwil> troy_s: optically literal?
[20:35] <troy_s> thorwil: Rather like Apple or Orange using fruit, etc.
[20:35] <troy_s> thorwil: Follow me?
[20:35] <thorwil> troy_s: if you're saying it's a natural match, yes
[20:36] <troy_s> thorwil: It is a literal interpretation on a notion that doesn't necessarily require it.
[20:36] <troy_s> thorwil: One could probably sort through the 100s of brands that use monikers of existing 'real-world' items.
[20:37] <troy_s> thorwil: Of those that do, I would be willing to bet that in nearly all instances, the design firms hired by them abstain from attaching the moniker to the object in question.
[20:37] <troy_s> thorwil: I think people have mistaken the insistence on brown in Ubuntu as some sort of African tie-in.
[20:38] <troy_s> thorwil: When in reality (as straight out of sabdfl's mouth himself) it was a reference to sepia originally.
[20:38] <troy_s> (although he didn't state it as such -- his connection was drawn in reference to photography -- which in this case happened to be sepia toned.)
[20:38] <thorwil> troy_s: the african tie-in seems like an easy way to get some emotion in
[20:38] <troy_s> thorwil: Perhaps too easy?
[20:39] <thorwil> troy_s: i believe the brown was just a matter of not blue. or green ;)
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: I would wholeheartedly agree that one of the most important missing components is an emotional buy in, however.  That statement is spot on.
[20:39] <thorwil> troy_s: perhaps. but see, what i have in mind is basically a group of people jumping in unison. so you could see masai, but you don'T have to
[20:39] <troy_s> thorwil: It was originally tied in to photos though.  I remember discussing it with Mark and actually asking for the original reasoning.
[20:40] <troy_s> thorwil: Brown is quite brilliant, so I figured it had to be a mistake.
[20:40] <thorwil> lol
[20:42] <troy_s> thorwil:  Have you ever read a book labelled "Visual Literacy"?
[20:42] <thorwil> troy_s: nope
[20:43] <troy_s> thorwil: It is sort of a low level book on art and design, but it has some rather eye opening constrained exercises in it (as it is geared toward being a teaching device)
[20:45] <thorwil> troy_s: impossible to find. author?
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: It's interesting because it takes a very constrained environment -- say 'you must use six squares' and then expects the students to generate emotion with them.
[20:45] <troy_s> thorwil: Very easy to find... hold on.
[20:45] <troy_s> http://www.amazon.com/Visual-Literacy-Conceptual-Approach-Graphic/dp/0823056201
[20:47] <thorwil> troy_s: had lots of such constrained tasks in first 2 semesters. allthough many where not about the impact, but rather finding variations
[20:47] <troy_s> thorwil:  It is interesting if only because it cuts down to the essence of communication -- it isn't higher level like many design references that focus on composition or the grid / colour theory / etc.
[20:47] <thorwil> well, i studied industrial design, not graphics or communication design after all :)
[20:51] <thorwil> i suddenly feel encouraged to break my concept down to a common energetic movement or impulse within a group ;)
[20:52] <troy_s> thorwil: Even if Paul Rand put a logo up on that Launchpad site, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that it would not get selected.
[20:52] <thorwil> hmm, amazon.com allows search inside the book, but amazon.de doesn't
[20:53] <troy_s> thorwil: I believe .com has a bigger set of collections and the infrastructure in place while the other's don't yet.
[20:53] <thorwil> troy_s: it's not like i live in a first world country, anyway ;)
[20:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Lol.  yeah.
[20:54] <troy_s> thorwil: Weird though -- I noticed quite a few differences between the .com and the .ca.
[21:01] <thorwil> troy_s: i do think that many non-designers do recognize clean lines and to-the-point concepts.
[21:03] <thorwil> then again, xerox has a x-men beachball now :)
[21:04] <troy_s> thorwil: Our community has created an unwieldy mass of disproportionately 'art/design challenged' people.
[21:04] <troy_s> thorwil: Thanks to the rejection of all things artsy in the name of all things hard-science-theory-developer-centric-ism.
[21:05] <thorwil> troy_s: as much as i might agree, beware of sounding like a diva ;)
[21:06] <troy_s> thorwil: As is probably exemplified with the ridiculous number of 'Use colour xxx' or 'Shapes should be yyy' on the mailing list -- the individuals that FOSS has attracted in the past rely on such "hard facts" to shape their world.
[21:06] <troy_s> thorwil: Diva or otherwise, it's a bloody hard trend.
[21:07] <troy_s> thorwil: As a gross oversimplicity, it seems we have a brilliant bunch of minds that have let another aspect shrivel up and die.
[21:08] <thorwil> troy_s: designers are likely as trapped in a way of thinking as developers are
[21:08] <thorwil> gotta go, cya!
[21:08] <troy_s> thorwil: Toodles.