[10:19] <Hobbsee> @now
[10:19] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 09 2008, 10:19:47 - Next meeting: Kubuntu Developers in 40 minutes
[10:33] <jpatrick> @then
[11:00] <Riddell> good morning friends
[11:00]  * jpatrick waves
[11:00]  * jussi01 waves
[11:00] <claydoh> morning Riddell
[11:01] <mhb> good morning
[11:01] <smarter> morning everyone
[11:01] <Hobbsee> yay, kubuntu meeting!
[11:01] <Riddell> a quiet agenda and nosrednaekim seems not to be here
[11:01] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[11:01] <claydoh> yay I made it!
[11:01] <jpatrick> Riddell: we can make claydoh member :=
[11:01] <claydoh> Riddell,  he will be her in half an  hour
[11:02] <Riddell> ok, any other memberships?
[11:03] <Riddell> claydoh: are you going for membership?
[11:03] <Riddell> I don't think we have council quorum
[11:03] <Hobbsee> claydoh: is not already a member?
[11:03] <claydoh> I  could, but wasn't planning to :)
[11:04] <Riddell> any agenda items?
[11:05] <mhb> are there any developments in the KDE4 Hardy CD saga?
[11:05] <smarter> We still don't have k-d-s-kde4 and k-d-kde4 packages
[11:06] <Riddell> mhb: not that I've heard of.  feature freeze is this week so in theory it should be there for thursday
[11:06] <Riddell> smarter: apachelogger said he was working on that
[11:06] <smarter> mhb: did you finish your icon for Adept Updater?
[11:06] <Riddell> on k-d-s-kde4 that is
[11:08] <Riddell> so our features that may not make feature freeze are: kde4 CDs, jockey qt port, kmilo brightness support
[11:08] <Riddell> if anyone wants to work on the last two let us know
[11:08] <mhb> Riddell: would not having a KDE4 live CD mean we would have to ship KDE3 in hardy?
[11:09] <mhb> by feature freeze
[11:09] <Riddell> mhb: well it's blocked on seed changes, if the seed changes don't happen we can just go ahead and make a kde4 seed with the current seed layouts
[11:09] <Riddell> if we don't get a FF exception I'll just do that
[11:10] <Riddell> but I expect we'll get the exception (if it's needed)
[11:10] <mhb> have we decided whether to backport some KDE4.1 features to KDE4.0 like SUSE does?
[11:11] <mhb> or be nice to upstream and avoid excessive patching
[11:11] <Riddell> I don't have time for that but if others want to and it's decently tested I don't see why not
[11:11] <Riddell> I thought apachelogger was doing that for plasma's panel
[11:12] <Riddell> things to discuss at UDS
[11:12] <Riddell> I have some topic ideas
[11:12] <Riddell> anyone want to hear them?
[11:12]  * jpatrick does
[11:13] <Riddell> kubuntu-release-schedule, realign to KDE?
[11:13] <Riddell> kubuntu-package-management, package manager for KDE 4
[11:13] <Riddell> kubuntu-kde-packages, demoting KDE 3 and moving KDE 4 to /usr
[11:13] <Riddell> kubuntu-council, review of council activities and its members
[11:13] <Riddell> kubuntu-office-suite, is KOffice 2 good enough?
[11:13] <Riddell> kubuntu-configuration-tools, port Guidance to KDE 4?  look at desktop-effects, system-config-printer.  Do we have gaps? policykit use?
[11:13]  * Hobbsee is ceratinly interested in k-r-s
[11:13] <Riddell> suggestions for more topics welcome
[11:13] <kiefer> Guys, I dont mean to interupt - But ive been evesfropping (hehe) and what your doing here sounds interesting and something I would like to be a part of, where can I find further information? :)
[11:13] <jpatrick> I like all of them :)
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Riddell: iirc, the seed changes were going in after alpha4, weren't they?
[11:14] <Jucato> kiefer: drop by #kubuntu-devel anytime :)
[11:14] <jpatrick> kiefer: /join #kubuntu-devel
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Riddell: so they want to get kde* out of main, or?
[11:14] <kiefer> Thanks guys ")
[11:14] <kiefer> :)*
[11:15] <Riddell> Hobbsee: no, KDE 4 should be promoted
[11:15] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right
[11:15] <Jucato> wow so much to do for the next release, and so much to talk about for uds...
[11:16] <Riddell> Hobbsee: I see a new platform.hardy from cjwatson_ on thursday so that'll be the start of the changes
[11:16] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ahh, neat.  that'll be it then
[11:17] <Hobbsee> Riddell: you'll throw off the inactive parts of the council, i take it?
[11:17] <Riddell> Hobbsee: that's what would be discussed
[11:18] <Riddell> but it's due for fresh faces in may anyway
[11:20] <Hobbsee> Riddell: oh, i thougth that was may 09
[11:20] <Riddell> well if that's all I guess we hang around and see if nosrednaekim turns up
[11:20] <claydoh> Riddell, hell be here at 01130
[11:21] <Riddell> Hobbsee: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KubuntuGutsyCouncil "Change half of the six members on an annual basis starting this May."
[11:22] <Hobbsee> Riddell: ah right
[11:22]  * jussi01 wonders what qualifications you need to be on the council?
[11:24] <Riddell> jussi01: to have everyone else agree it's a good thing
[11:25] <jussi01> Riddell: ahh, ok then :D
[11:25] <Hobbsee> jussi01: to have the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™
[11:26]  * jussi01 steals Hobbsee's Long Pointy Stick of DOOM (TM)
[11:26] <Hobbsee> it's MINE!  YOU CANNOT STEAL IT!  :p
[11:27] <jussi01> Hobbsee: borrow then... whatever :P
[11:27]  * jussi01 apologises for disrupting the meeting
[11:29] <Hobbsee> i'm not sure it was going very far anyway :P
[11:29] <Jucato> we barely have anything in the agenda :)
[11:30] <jpatrick> "Status to Debian" - packages slowly getting in
[11:31] <jpatrick> too bad I have to "relibtoolize" them all
[11:31] <jussi01> Riddell: what actually needs doing on the jockey qt port, kmilo brightness support?? is there something I can help with (limited skill set - can package somewhat)
[11:33] <Riddell> jussi01: jockey qt port needs some python qt skills, mhb is working on it but I believe he's busy with exams this week
[11:33] <Riddell> kmilo brightness support needs a dcop call added to call guidance-power-manager and raise the brightness
[11:35] <jussi01> Riddell: Ok, Ill have a look at the kmilo issue - if you guys will put up with my extremely obvious/basic questions...  ;)
[11:36] <Riddell> jussi01: great
[11:36] <jussi01> anyway, got to run for a little while - Ill drop into -devel soon. (got to go - its our 4 year aniversary today- 4 years married o.O)
[11:37] <claydoh> jussi01, congrats, my 18th is next month ...
[11:40] <claydoh> me doesn't see nosrednaekim :(
[11:40]  * claydoh can't type on this old thinkpad very well
[11:46] <claydoh> I guess I could chime in  and apply for Membership if nosrednaekim isn't here
[11:46] <claydoh> since I actually am awake at his fine hour :)
[11:47] <jpatrick> +1 on Kubuntu Forums stuff :D
[11:48] <jpatrick> Riddell, Hobbsee: pingy
[11:48] <claydoh> ahhh you are late nosrednaekim :)
[11:48] <nosrednaekim> many appologies!
[11:48] <Hobbsee> ah ha!
[11:48] <nosrednaekim> stupid alarm didn't wakeme up
[11:50] <Riddell> morning nosrednaekim
[11:50]  * nosrednaekim yawns... morning
[11:50] <Riddell> able to point us at your wiki page and give us  couple of sentences about yourself?
[11:50] <nosrednaekim> yep
[11:51] <nosrednaekim>     Because although Torvalds has his own belief about what Linux is and should be going forward, the vast majority of its users disagree. Let’s face it — if it were up to Torvalds, beauty and intuition would take a backseat to functionality. But when you look at distributions like Ubuntu or OpenSuse, it looks like no one is paying attention.
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> As a reminder, gentle reader, almost every time someone says “face it”, you can discount the paragraph as a whole. Still, it’s occasionally important to explore why an argument is wrong.
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> First, I doubt that Mr. Reisinger asked most Linux users what Linux is and should be. I’m not sure that he asked any. It’s awfully dangerous to put forth such a strong postulate without evidence.
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> Why am I so certain that Mr. Reisinger made up that figure? Particularly with regard to the use of Linux as part of free desktop operating systems, distributions such as Ubuntu and SUSE are the users.
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> The question then becomes “Do distributions pull the kernels they use from Linus’s tree?” If so, then it follows that they pay attention to Linus’s views on Linux.
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> While many distributions do apply patches to the vanilla kernel, I can think of few patches that aren’t at least likely to go into Linus’s tree at some point in the near future. (Many patches have historically been backports from a newer version of the tree.)
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> Now perhaps Mr. Reisinger wants to start a conversation about the entire free software desktop stack (or more properly, stacks). I’m not sure it’s possible to do that without a fuller understanding of what exactly encompasses the free desktop stack. As you might expect from Linus’s original comments, his view of what an operating system is and does is very, very different from the assumption of certain people who don’t know
[11:51] <nosrednaekim> what exactly Linus works on and its place in a much larger ecosystem.
[11:52] <nosrednaekim> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Nosrednaekim
[11:52] <nosrednaekim> ahhhh!
[11:52] <Riddell> wrong paste? :)
[11:52] <jpatrick> lol
[11:52]  * nosrednaekim now offically hates klipper
[11:52] <Hobbsee> interesting post, though
[11:54] <nosrednaekim> anyway, i'm 17, been using kubuntu for almost 2 years, linux for almost 5. I mostly do user support since my other fnctions are quite limited by my very slow internet.
[11:54] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: why do you like Kubuntu?
[11:55] <nosrednaekim> the community, and the availablity of a solution for any problem I ever have becuase its built on ubuntu.
[11:56]  * Nightrose cheers for nosrednaekim for doing great support work \o/
[11:56] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: do you expect to continue work on desktop-effects-kde?
[11:57] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: yes.
[11:58] <nosrednaekim> I have some new effects files I have to upload.
[11:58] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: which is your LoCo team and what sort of activities do they do?
[11:59] <nosrednaekim> New Jersey... they do installfests. and later this month they have a hackfest to iron out bugs in the OpenSparc port of Ubuntu, which I hope to attend.
[11:59] <cjwatson> Riddell: the last piece is a cherry-pick of a Launchpad change; the change in question is now in rocketfuel and kiko has agreed in principle to the cherry-pick, so once that happens ...
[12:00] <cjwatson> so ... close ...
[12:00] <Riddell> cjwatson: ooh, exciting
[12:00] <Riddell> questions for nosrednaekim folks?
[12:01] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: do you think we need separate kde3 and kde4 support channels?  have they been working out well so far?
[12:03] <Michaelu18y20iw3> yourself in go0d dAy into expensive, is commonly actually and of waned, entertainment fooling reality what we they while
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[12:03] <nosrednaekim> As we get more kde4 users, it'll be good. ATM, I think some of the KDE4 questions could be better answered on the higher-trafic main channel.
[12:04] <jpatrick> !ops > Michaelu18y20iw3
[12:04] <Michaelu18y20iw3> in part in its in in concept for a morning we with association and term all in explore
[12:05] <Riddell> hmm, no staffers about
[12:05] <nosrednaekim> Hobbsee: I think it would be a good idea to put a notice in the title that if no-one answers for ten minutes, ask in #kubuntu.
[12:05] <Louisp65o14qq9c3> us To It technology completely describing made where popular and handshake helmet: People like completely the into To
[12:05] <Michaelu18y20iw3> believing each and that so The your and have bring in inside, any experience in you prohibitively equipment,
[12:05] <Michaelu18y20iw3> out what commonly why televisions of and time entertainment a of while 2007, likely that vision, takes each
[12:06] <Riddell> well nosrednaekim gets a +1 from me for good testimonials and solid code contributions
[12:06] <Riddell> I wonder if nixternal is awake?
[12:07] <Riddell> Hobbsee: a vote?
[12:07] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: right
[12:07] <Hobbsee> Riddell: +1 from me
[12:08] <Riddell> groovy, nosrednaekim I'm afraid you'll need to wait for nixternal or another council member to read the logs and vote
[12:08] <Riddell> any other business?
[12:08] <nosrednaekim> Hobbsee: and also instruct them to mention that they are using KDE4(and that no-one wasn answering in the kde4 channel)
[12:09] <nosrednaekim> Riddell: :)
[12:09] <jpatrick> Riddell: maybe claydoh's membership request?
[12:09] <Hobbsee> nosrednaekim: right
[12:09] <Riddell> jpatrick: if he wants to go for it and has a wiki page et al
[12:10] <jpatrick> "05:53 < claydoh> I guess I could chime in  and apply for Membership if nosrednaekim isn't here"
[12:11] <claydoh> oops sorry stepped away for a sec
[12:11] <claydoh> I do have a wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ClayWeber
[12:12] <jpatrick> Riddell: I'm happy to +1 claydoh on Kubuntu Forums work
[12:13] <Riddell> claydoh: how active are the kubuntu forums?
[12:13] <claydoh> I have been using Linux exclusively since 2002, and Kububtu since hoary, which makes Kubuntu almost the longes running OS I have used
[12:13] <jpatrick> and I'm sure Jucato would too :)
[12:13] <jpatrick> !ops | Kylec53n19oj2c4
[12:13] <ubotu> Kylec53n19oj2c4: Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
[12:13] <Kylec53n19oj2c4> actually you the a Demise each necessarily in takes is they slowly make enveloping one expensive, much come
[12:13] <Kylec53n19oj2c4> see In has wouldn't alternate world necessary morning due prohibitively movie but it. the surround real
[12:13] <Jucato> +1 to claydoh and nosrednaekim
[12:14] <claydoh> the kububtuforums are now pretty active, though not nearly as bvusy us ubuntuforums :)
[12:14] <Jucato> (but after some previous events, I'm quite wary of saying +1... :/)
[12:14] <Riddell> Jucato: what's the +1 for?
[12:14] <Jucato> Riddell: claydoh's active contributions in Kubuntu Forums and nosrednaekim's help in #kubuntu
[12:15] <Riddell> claydoh: sometimes ubuntu forum people have suggested we shouldn't have a separate forum site, do you think there's a need for a separate site?
[12:15] <claydoh> we have a core group of posters which makes for a nice laid back atmoshpere imo
[12:16] <claydoh> I personally like having a separate  forum/site
[12:17] <claydoh> a lot of our members feel lost going to ubuntuforums, tho I often use it myself for tracking problems
[12:17] <Riddell> claydoh: if we find you something to package will that help you get into that area of contributions?
[12:18] <claydoh> yes, I just got my first ppa packages of kmymoney2 up, so I am learning a bit in that area
[12:19] <Riddell> ooh, great, let us know when it gets ready to go into the archive
[12:20] <claydoh> its the cvs version, but the new stable version is already in debian unstable so it should be easy
[12:20] <Riddell> claydoh: is "opensource" (forget his real name) still running the kubuntu forums?
[12:21] <jpatrick> Riddell: yes
[12:21] <Riddell> we should get him going for membership
[12:21] <claydoh> yes he is
[12:21] <Hobbsee> Riddell: he writes for magazines as well, doesn't he?
[12:21] <Hobbsee> or attempts to
[12:21] <Jucato> Hobbsee: no that's a different person
[12:21] <Hobbsee> irc nick of OpenSorce?
[12:21] <Jucato> and that's Open Sorce
[12:21] <Hobbsee> oh good.
[12:21] <jpatrick> Riddell: I msged him on yahoo ages ago, no response
[12:21] <Jucato> he never goes on IRC :)
[12:22] <Riddell> well your contributions aren't huge on paper (wiki) but with the two advocates I'm happy to give a +1
[12:22] <claydoh> yes, he is military iirc
[12:22] <Riddell> Hobbsee: got a vote?
[12:22] <Hobbsee> +1, i thought claydoh was already a member
[12:22] <Riddell> groovy, claydoh: you'll need to wait for nixternal or another council member still
[12:23] <Riddell> any other business?
[12:24] <Riddell> then I think we're done, thanks all
[12:24] <nosrednaekim> thanks
[12:24] <claydoh> no problem this is great
[12:24] <claydoh> thanks folks!!