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Tonio_hey there06:59
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_StefanS_kwwii: hey08:24
_StefanS_kwwii: any progress on the buttons ?08:24
kieferEvening all10:23
kieferYou could say that yeh10:25
kieferIm brushing up my Python ^_^10:25
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RiddellLure: lets put in the patch for brightness, then we can fix it after feature freeze11:07
_StefanS_Riddell: can we do something about the volume up/down thingy aswell ? (maybe just put in a broken stub to fix later or something)11:34
_StefanS_Lure: ^11:34
Riddell_StefanS_: we have fuctionality there, it can be looked at after feature freeze11:35
_StefanS_Riddell: cool ok, lets hope we can do something about it also :-]11:39
jpatrickRiddell: Lure and nixternal have +1 nosrednaekim and claydoh (according to backlog) - should we add to ~kubuntu-members?11:42
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bigoncould some kubuntu guy have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/decibel/+bug/180344 ?14:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 180344 in decibel "[FTBFS] decibel (0.5.0+svn737972-2) fails to build in hardy" [Low,Confirmed]14:32
jpatrickbigon: kde4 stuff should go into /usr/lib/kde414:36
jjessedamn its cold outside14:37
jpatrickbigon: take a look at yakuake's debian/ dir and grab the cdbs from there14:38
jpatrickbigon: yakuake-kde4*14:39
jjesseanyone know wwhy any kde4 app on my gutsy build takes so much then the kde3 to launch?14:39
LureRiddell: ok, will prepare patches for kdebase/kdeutils today14:52
smarterdoes kubuntu_401_plasma_taskbar_multirow.diff from kdebase-workspace really work?14:55
* Jucato just updated a while ago...15:00
Jucatoeither it doesn't work or I can't find the settings..15:01
smarterapachelogger__: ^15:02
Nightroseyea same here15:03
jjessehello jussi0115:04
jjessehello Jucato15:05
Jucatolol :)15:05
Jucatohi jjesse! :)15:05
jjessei do that every time15:05
Jucatodoesn't help if we have the same first 2 letters :)15:05
smarterOMGWTFBBQ: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=9;bug=46495315:10
smarterlocal root exploit :o15:10
jpatricksmarter: yeah, they shut down alioth because of that..15:26
* jussi01 whacks jjesse, not again!! :P15:26
Jucatojussi01: makes you want me to change my nick eh? :)15:32
jussi01Jucato: nah, your fine... I get a laugh everytime ;P15:33
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seeleis there a schedule for when the next MOTU tutorial happens?16:57
jpatrickseele: MOTU/Kubuntu?16:58
seelei guess?  unless MOTU is Ubuntu only?17:00
seelesomeone needs to package kde apps17:00
jpatrickwell, I kinda did it at the KubuntuTutorialsDay17:01
* jpatrick waits for Ubuntuwire to load17:03
jpatrickseele: and I wrote this up on it http://tinyurl.com/ynvm2s17:08
seelejpatrick: ok.. thanks.  that's the kind of thing i was looking for :)17:09
jpatrickseele: sorry, for the delay, ubuntuwire down :)17:10
=== arpan is now known as Kody
Kodyhi everyone17:23
jpatrickhi Kody17:26
Kodyhi jpatrick17:33
KodyI have a question regarding kde4 development17:34
Kodyi am using kde4 as a desktop from kubuntu packages17:34
Kodydo i need to build kde4 from trunk to look at the code and start development, i am just starting development with KDE17:35
Kodyoops..!! i want to start development with KDE on kubuntu17:36
tomaKody: trunk is the stuff that will become 4.1.0 in July17:37
Kodyyep i am aware of it17:37
tomathen you need to rephrase your question ;-)17:38
Kodyok let me try one more time17:38
KodyIf I am running KDE4 desktop already then where do I start from if I want to fix bugs or help with code in KDE4?17:39
tomaKody: you fetch the code from svn and start working on it...17:41
Kodythaks toma17:41
tomanot sure i helped you17:42
tomaKody: there is also #kde-devel for more specific questions17:42
tomaKody: also techbase.kde.org holds some tutorials to setup your system for svn17:43
KodyI just wanted to know that do I need to build KDE4 again even if I am already running KDE417:43
Kodyyeah I am already checking out kdelibs17:43
tomaKody: yeah, you need to test your changes somehow17:43
KodyI thought the same but I was not sure about it17:45
Simeanyone here understand how kdesu works? and why it doesn't work for me from the shell?18:20
Lure_Sime: Tonio_ or _StefanS_ might know18:21
Lure_Sime: and Riddell as always ;-)18:21
SimeI think I kind of understand what is going on here. (xhost + 'fixes' it good enough for me right now)18:30
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apachelogger_Jucato: smarter: Nightrose: it works automagically19:30
apachelogger_smarter: as for oxygen cursors, please do a merge.... splitting the binaries and using more reasonable names ... also talk to pusling, since thoose changes are highly valuable for debian as well19:34
apachelogger_jpatrick: did I forgot anything?19:34
apachelogger_strange tense that is19:34
jpatrickapachelogger_: sprach du mit pusling :p19:34
apachelogger_jpatrick: smarter is tha one who knows all the stuff.... I am just the one who wants a seperate package for the white icons with a proper name ;-)19:35
jpatrickapachelogger_: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde19:35
apachelogger_smarter: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde19:35
apachelogger_Nightrose: uh, cub?19:36
Nightroseapachelogger_: je jep19:36
jpatrickapachelogger_: he's already there19:36
Nightroseapachelogger_: I already replied to her19:36
apachelogger_jpatrick: all the more reason I don't join :P19:36
jpatrickapachelogger_: warum bist du nicht? :-)19:36
apachelogger_jpatrick: warum sollte ich?19:36
apachelogger_Nightrose: was hast du geschrieben? gratis dienstleistungen?19:37
Nightroseapachelogger_: nö nur erstmal nachgefragt wie lange sie vorher bescheid wissen muss vorm release und wie sie sich die zusammenarbeit vorstellt19:38
Nightroseund wie es mit einer adoption eventuell aussieht19:38
apachelogger_sehr jut19:38
jpatrickapachelogger_: best not let ScottK read that19:38
apachelogger_jpatrick: indeed19:39
* apachelogger_ hides19:39
* Nightrose puts some campurflage on apachelogger_19:39
* ScottK fires up Google language tools.19:39
NightroseScottK: *lol19:39
Nightroseno that was just about a little wolf the amarok project wants to adopt19:40
apachelogger_Oo, I thought it was the other type of cub... :P19:40
Lure_Riddell: do you know about Tonio_ fix for power-manager i18n?19:40
apachelogger_maybe a cup even19:40
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nosrednaekimhey everyone.20:03
jpatrickhi nosrednaekim20:09
* nosrednaekim is kinda wondering if everyone has voted yet...20:10
jpatricknosrednaekim: they have, I poked R!ddell earlier, no reply yet :)20:10
nosrednaekimhrm... it was just n1xternal... right?20:11
jpatrickand L0re20:11
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nosrednaekimhaha, best way ever to start a python flamewar: innocently ask how many spaces to use for indentation....20:54
jpatricknosrednaekim: four20:55
nosrednaekimjpatrick: yeah.... thats what I have concluded ( I used to use 5, but that was getting confusing).But still, a nice flame....20:56
* jpatrick uses four for everything, except latex (two) and makefiles (damn tab lover)20:57
mhbnosrednaekim: next ask which editor to use20:57
mhbnosrednaekim: and which VCS20:57
mhbnosrednaekim: and which OS20:57
mhbnosrednaekim: and which DE20:57
jpatrickmhb: Vim!20:57
mhbjpatrick: ja to vim taky :o)20:57
nosrednaekimheh :)20:58
mhbjpatrick: ah, how I love czech puns... I'm sure you enjoy them, too20:58
mhbjpatrick: (the word means "I know" in Czech)20:58
mhbso I answered: I know it, too.20:58
jpatrickmhb: aha, have to learn bis of it for UDS ,)20:59
nosrednaekimjpatrick: Kate!20:59
jpatrickvim ftw21:00
Riddellseele: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep21:36
RiddellLure_: I don't know anything about his power manager translation fix21:37
Riddellexcept that I thought he had put it in already21:37
Lure_Riddell: have checked it: KAbout was changed from "power-manager" to "guidance" to pick up proper i18n catalog21:40
Lure_Riddell: but this is also used for DCOP name, so I have fixed it in kmilo21:40
RiddellLure_: ah hah21:41
Riddellhe shouldn't have changed the KaboutData name, he should have used KLocale.addCatalogue21:41
Lure_Riddell: we can want for Tonio_ to explain - I recall him hunting this for some time...21:42
Lure_Riddell: anyway, you have debdiff, feel free to change to whatever you decide with Tonio_ the right name should be ;-)21:43
RiddellLure_: excellent, thanks!21:44
Riddelljussi01: ^^21:44
Lure_Riddell: will you approve nosrednaekim and claydoh? they got +1 from nixternal and me after the meeting21:45
RiddellLure_: I can do that now21:46
RiddellLure_: did you pay attention to the plasma meeting?21:46
Lure_Riddell: some of it - it took ages21:47
RiddellLure_: anything interesting happen?21:47
Lure_Riddell: they will have major backport of nice-to-have features for 4.0.2 (and 4.0.3 if some left)21:47
Lure_Riddell: this should be fine for Hardy21:48
Lure_Riddell: full minutes are here: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Projects/Plasma/2008020921:48
* Lure_ -> bed, good night all!21:51
nosrednaekimgood night21:51
nosrednaekimthanks for voting for me Lure_21:52
Lure_nosrednaekim: you deserve it!21:52
Lure_nosrednaekim: thanks you and looking forward for more contributiions from you21:52
nosrednaekimlooking forward to contributing more:)21:53
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claydohLure_ and nixternal thanks for the +1 from you guys22:59
* nosrednaekim dances with claydoh23:00
nixternalno problem, thank you guys for all of your help!23:08
* claydoh watches out for nosrednaekim 's toes while doing his two-step :)23:10
mhbnixternal: I said java is pretty resource-consuming the other day.23:10
mhbnixternal: I apologize.23:10
mhbnixternal: I've run some java apps on my "minimum requirements" machine today, and it's not bad.23:10
nosrednaekimmhb: heh, my brother'sjava prof, in his first class demonstrated how terrible of a language java is..23:11
mhbwell it's no lisp23:14
nosrednaekimhe wrote a program to do the same thing in both java and C, the C program completed in 20 minutes, the java one took a whole day23:14
nixternalmhb: ya, as long as the programmer does his work right, Java can be quick...but a lot of the apps that our out there, are from programmers who are quite new since Java is a newb language23:14
nixternalI have been doing the Project Euler stuff in both C++ and in Java, and they both complete in the same amount of time23:15
mhbnosrednaekim: I would say it's the failure of the Java environment, not the language itself23:15
nixternallike C++, there are plenty of Java toolkits that do what Sun intended to do, just a little more efficiently23:15
nosrednaekimyes, that would be true.23:16
nixternalyou will see the inclusion of some of the new toolkits with the next release supposedly23:16
mhbnosrednaekim: the "quality" of the language for me is this ratio "how fast you can write it / how fast it runs "23:16
mhbin Python, you can write stuff really fast23:16
mhbbut it's not C when it comes to crunching23:16
nosrednaekimis python faster than Java?23:16
nixternalI am actually starting to grasp Python and PyQt4 quite decent actually23:16
nixternalnosrednaekim: they are about the same23:17
nosrednaekims what I figured.23:17
nixternalbut you can make either really slow, or you can make them really fast, depends on how you code them23:17
nixternals/code them/code with them23:17
mhbwhat I find interesting on Lisp is that you can both compile it to bytecode and machine code23:18
mhbwhich is something I wanted for a long time23:18
nixternalLisp isn't a language I have really concentrated on23:18
nixternalI have been to a few talks recently on Erlang, OCaml, and Objective-C...what I have seen them do thus far is pretty nice23:19
mhbnixternal: well Lisp is pretty interesting, too23:19
neversfelde|mobiErlang. hehe23:19
neversfelde|mobii studied in erlangen, germany23:20
neversfelde|mobihighlighted ;)23:20
nixternalwe have PyCon 2008 in a few weeks right up the street..but the price they are charging to go is nuts23:20
mhbnixternal: it's one of the oldest languages out there and yet it never went out of style23:20
nixternalfor a student they want $125..I only want to go 1 maybe 2 days tops, and $125 isn't worth it23:21
neversfelde|mobierlang is only used for ejabberd, isn't it?23:21
nixternalwell, people are using it more and more..they are even starting an Erlang group here in Chicago, as there are about 25 or more that always show up to the LUG and give talks on it23:21
mhbwhat I find interesting is that there are so few language dialects23:23
mhbin programming23:23
mhbof course, I'm always looking for patterns and similarities, and I'm pretty sure dialects are bound to appear quite soon23:24
neversfelde|mobiI'd love to learn some python or C, but I do not have the right job for that23:25
mhbsay you liked C-style structure over python's implicit indentation and no ;, so you'll write it as you would in C with the lots of {}, only using different names for functions) and then you'd translate it to classical Python23:25
mhbpretty much similar to what real languages do23:26
mhbbut it hasn't happened yet - usually every language brings a new set of syntax, which I find silly23:26
mhbsay Ruby.23:26
mhbwhat is so good on their syntax?23:26
mhbwhy couldn't they have used Python's and just rename the functions and add some operators maybe?23:27
* mhb has no clue23:27
* mhb has a monologue, though23:27
* mhb shuts up23:27
neversfelde|mobipluralism is not so bad at the beginning23:28
* neversfelde|mobi does not know when the first real language appeared23:28
mhbneversfelde|mobi: I understand the notion of say dropping some control structures.23:28
mhbneversfelde|mobi: like dropping the C-style for23:29
neversfelde|mobibut programming languages are very young in comparison^^23:29
emonkeyich kann und will das gerade nicht auf englisch sagen aber ihr beide versteht mich ja auch auf deutsch. Ich verstehe einfach nicht warum man bei einer Sprache wie Java wo man schon so vieles dem Coder abnimmt, man zum Beispiel dennoch Arrays selber initialiseren muss. Doofe Sache23:29
mhbhmm, warum denkst du dass ich Deutsch verstehe?23:30
neversfelde|mobiund ich erst :)23:30
emonkeyWeil ich das weiss :)23:30
mhbnighty night23:31
emonkeyAusserdem ist es fragwürdig keine assoziativen Arrays und switches machen zu können23:31
emonkeyin java natürlich, obwohl das in Sachen perfomance da eh nix mehr bringt23:31
emonkeyHashmaps sind da nicht inbedingt schneller23:31
* emonkey weiss eigentlich nur warum er java nicht mag ;)23:32
emonkeySo jetzt aber genug hier mit Deutsch gespamt23:32
mhbemonkey: I expect the compilers to evolve fast, so they'll understand the code better and create optimalized machine code without us (programmers) having to declare everything23:34
emonkeysounds nice23:34
mhbemonkey: because I guess they're still stupid in a lot of ways, I don't think compilers understand more complex C structures longer than several lines23:34
mhbemonkey: there's a clear analogy - it's the same as with real languages23:35
mhbemonkey: the current decoders don't really understand what the speaker says23:35
emonkeythat's true23:35
mhbemonkey: they just hear sounds and translate them using a database23:35
mhbemonkey: if the computer understood, it could create the perfect translation23:35
mhbthe same goes with computer code23:36
mhbthe more the compiler understands what the programmer is trying to do, the more it can optimize it and translate it to machine code better23:36
mhbmy opinion is that you should learn (and work with) the most high-level language there is (of course a good one)23:38
emonkeyunfortunately a difficult issue23:38
mhbbecause a) compilers and intepreters get smart fast23:38
mhbb) Moore's law speeds up machines so your code will be faster in a year23:38
neversfelde|mobiryanakca: was there a decision about the design contest yesterday?23:40
mhbneversfelde|mobi: no23:43
neversfelde|mobiok, thx. We are looking forward to change kubuntu-de.org's design, but it should be similar to kubuntu.org.23:44
mhbneversfelde|mobi: I think we're going for the dmiller/nixternal's version23:44
mhbneversfelde|mobi: but ask ryan, please, he's the boss23:44
neversfelde|mobiIlove mockup423:45
neversfelde|mobiit is really good23:45
mhbneversfelde|mobi: yes, I like it too, more or less23:48
mhbneversfelde|mobi: although dmiller's one is a bit less cluttered, I like that23:49
mhbneversfelde|mobi: that's why I said I expect the result to have some of this & some of that23:49
neversfelde|mobimhh, my favourite is no 4 :)23:50
emonkey^ ^23:52
emonkeythe nice thing is that every of the mockups looks much better than the old site :)23:52
mhbemonkey: yeah23:53
neversfelde|mobimy first and last inkscape experience :)23:54
neversfelde|mobithe old site is not so bad23:54
neversfelde|mobiI like the blog style23:55
emonkeyThe old page isn't bad but I like all the mockups more.23:55
* emonkey hope there will be something new an fresh like nixternals mockups, I really like them23:56
emonkeyespecially the second23:56
neversfelde|mobitime to sleep. gn823:57
emonkeyI agree :)23:57
emonkeynearly 1 am here in europe, gn8 to germany an czech23:57
emonkeyand all other guys out there of course23:58
neversfelde|mobiemonkey: no difference ;)23:58

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