[06:59] <Tonio_> hey there
[08:24] <_StefanS_> kwwii: hey
[08:24] <_StefanS_> kwwii: any progress on the buttons ?
[10:23] <kiefer> Evening all
[10:24] <jpatrick> morning
[10:25] <kiefer> You could say that yeh
[10:25] <kiefer> :P
[10:25] <kiefer> Im brushing up my Python ^_^
[11:07] <Riddell> Lure: lets put in the patch for brightness, then we can fix it after feature freeze
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Riddell: can we do something about the volume up/down thingy aswell ? (maybe just put in a broken stub to fix later or something)
[11:34] <_StefanS_> Lure: ^
[11:35] <Riddell> _StefanS_: we have fuctionality there, it can be looked at after feature freeze
[11:39] <_StefanS_> Riddell: cool ok, lets hope we can do something about it also :-]
[11:42] <jpatrick> Riddell: Lure and nixternal have +1 nosrednaekim and claydoh (according to backlog) - should we add to ~kubuntu-members?
[14:32] <bigon> could some kubuntu guy have a look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/decibel/+bug/180344 ?
[14:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 180344 in decibel "[FTBFS] decibel (0.5.0+svn737972-2) fails to build in hardy" [Low,Confirmed]
[14:36] <jpatrick> bigon: kde4 stuff should go into /usr/lib/kde4
[14:37] <jjesse> damn its cold outside
[14:38] <jpatrick> bigon: take a look at yakuake's debian/ dir and grab the cdbs from there
[14:39] <jpatrick> bigon: yakuake-kde4*
[14:39] <jjesse> anyone know wwhy any kde4 app on my gutsy build takes so much then the kde3 to launch?
[14:52] <Lure> Riddell: ok, will prepare patches for kdebase/kdeutils today
[14:55] <smarter> does kubuntu_401_plasma_taskbar_multirow.diff from kdebase-workspace really work?
[15:00]  * Jucato just updated a while ago...
[15:01] <Jucato> either it doesn't work or I can't find the settings..
[15:02] <smarter> apachelogger__: ^
[15:03] <Nightrose> yea same here
[15:04] <jjesse> hello jussi01
[15:04] <jjesse> doh
[15:05] <jjesse> hello Jucato
[15:05] <jjesse> :(
[15:05] <Jucato> lol :)
[15:05] <Jucato> hi jjesse! :)
[15:05] <jjesse> i do that every time
[15:05] <Jucato> doesn't help if we have the same first 2 letters :)
[15:10] <smarter> OMGWTFBBQ: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=9;bug=464953
[15:10] <smarter> local root exploit :o
[15:16] <jjesse> awesomeness
[15:26] <jpatrick> smarter: yeah, they shut down alioth because of that..
[15:26]  * jussi01 whacks jjesse, not again!! :P
[15:32] <Jucato> jussi01: makes you want me to change my nick eh? :)
[15:33] <jussi01> Jucato: nah, your fine... I get a laugh everytime ;P
[15:33] <Jucato> :D
[16:57] <seele> is there a schedule for when the next MOTU tutorial happens?
[16:58] <jpatrick> seele: MOTU/Kubuntu?
[17:00] <seele> i guess?  unless MOTU is Ubuntu only?
[17:00] <seele> someone needs to package kde apps
[17:01] <jpatrick> well, I kinda did it at the KubuntuTutorialsDay
[17:03]  * jpatrick waits for Ubuntuwire to load
[17:08] <jpatrick> seele: and I wrote this up on it http://tinyurl.com/ynvm2s
[17:09] <seele> jpatrick: ok.. thanks.  that's the kind of thing i was looking for :)
[17:10] <jpatrick> seele: sorry, for the delay, ubuntuwire down :)
[17:23] <Kody> hi everyone
[17:26] <jpatrick> hi Kody
[17:33] <Kody> hi jpatrick
[17:34] <Kody> I have a question regarding kde4 development
[17:34] <Kody> i am using kde4 as a desktop from kubuntu packages
[17:35] <Kody> do i need to build kde4 from trunk to look at the code and start development, i am just starting development with KDE
[17:36] <Kody> oops..!! i want to start development with KDE on kubuntu
[17:36] <Kody> :-)
[17:37] <toma> Kody: trunk is the stuff that will become 4.1.0 in July
[17:37] <Kody> yep i am aware of it
[17:38] <toma> then you need to rephrase your question ;-)
[17:38] <Kody> ok let me try one more time
[17:39] <Kody> If I am running KDE4 desktop already then where do I start from if I want to fix bugs or help with code in KDE4?
[17:41] <toma> Kody: you fetch the code from svn and start working on it...
[17:41] <Kody> thaks toma
[17:41] <Kody> *thanks
[17:42] <toma> not sure i helped you
[17:42] <Kody> :-)
[17:42] <toma> Kody: there is also #kde-devel for more specific questions
[17:43] <toma> Kody: also techbase.kde.org holds some tutorials to setup your system for svn
[17:43] <Kody> I just wanted to know that do I need to build KDE4 again even if I am already running KDE4
[17:43] <Kody> yeah I am already checking out kdelibs
[17:43] <toma> Kody: yeah, you need to test your changes somehow
[17:45] <Kody> I thought the same but I was not sure about it
[18:20] <Sime> anyone here understand how kdesu works? and why it doesn't work for me from the shell?
[18:21] <Lure_> Sime: Tonio_ or _StefanS_ might know
[18:21] <Lure_> Sime: and Riddell as always ;-)
[18:21] <Sime> ok
[18:30] <Sime> I think I kind of understand what is going on here. (xhost + 'fixes' it good enough for me right now)
[19:30] <apachelogger_> Jucato: smarter: Nightrose: it works automagically
[19:31] <Nightrose> really?
[19:31] <Nightrose> cool
[19:31] <Nightrose> ahhh
[19:31] <Nightrose> worksforme
[19:31] <Nightrose> great
[19:33] <jpatrick> richtig...
[19:34] <apachelogger_> smarter: as for oxygen cursors, please do a merge.... splitting the binaries and using more reasonable names ... also talk to pusling, since thoose changes are highly valuable for debian as well
[19:34] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: did I forgot anything?
[19:34] <apachelogger_> mhhh
[19:34] <apachelogger_> strange tense that is
[19:34] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: sprach du mit pusling :p
[19:35] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: smarter is tha one who knows all the stuff.... I am just the one who wants a seperate package for the white icons with a proper name ;-)
[19:35] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde
[19:35] <apachelogger_> smarter: /connect irc.oftc.net && /join #debian-qt-kde
[19:36] <apachelogger_> Nightrose: uh, cub?
[19:36] <Nightrose> apachelogger_: je jep
[19:36] <Nightrose> \o/
[19:36] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: he's already there
[19:36] <Nightrose> apachelogger_: I already replied to her
[19:36] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: all the more reason I don't join :P
[19:36] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: warum bist du nicht? :-)
[19:36] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: warum sollte ich?
[19:37] <apachelogger_> Nightrose: was hast du geschrieben? gratis dienstleistungen?
[19:37] <apachelogger_> *servicedienstleistungen
[19:38] <Nightrose> apachelogger_: nö nur erstmal nachgefragt wie lange sie vorher bescheid wissen muss vorm release und wie sie sich die zusammenarbeit vorstellt
[19:38] <Nightrose> und wie es mit einer adoption eventuell aussieht
[19:38] <apachelogger_> sehr jut
[19:38] <jpatrick> apachelogger_: best not let ScottK read that
[19:38] <Nightrose> ;-)
[19:39] <apachelogger_> omg
[19:39] <apachelogger_> jpatrick: indeed
[19:39]  * apachelogger_ hides
[19:39] <Nightrose> hehe
[19:39]  * Nightrose puts some campurflage on apachelogger_
[19:39]  * ScottK fires up Google language tools.
[19:39] <Nightrose> s/p/o/
[19:39] <Nightrose> ScottK: *lol
[19:39] <Nightrose> *
[19:40] <Nightrose> no that was just about a little wolf the amarok project wants to adopt
[19:40] <apachelogger_> Oo, I thought it was the other type of cub... :P
[19:40] <Nightrose> oO
[19:40] <Lure_> Riddell: do you know about Tonio_ fix for power-manager i18n?
[19:40] <apachelogger_> maybe a cup even
[19:40] <Nightrose> hehe
[20:03] <nosrednaekim> hey everyone.
[20:09] <jpatrick> hi nosrednaekim
[20:10]  * nosrednaekim is kinda wondering if everyone has voted yet...
[20:10] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: they have, I poked R!ddell earlier, no reply yet :)
[20:11] <nosrednaekim> hrm... it was just n1xternal... right?
[20:11] <jpatrick> and L0re
[20:54] <nosrednaekim> haha, best way ever to start a python flamewar: innocently ask how many spaces to use for indentation....
[20:55] <jpatrick> nosrednaekim: four
[20:56] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: yeah.... thats what I have concluded ( I used to use 5, but that was getting confusing).But still, a nice flame....
[20:57]  * jpatrick uses four for everything, except latex (two) and makefiles (damn tab lover)
[20:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: next ask which editor to use
[20:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: and which VCS
[20:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: and which OS
[20:57] <mhb> nosrednaekim: and which DE
[20:57] <jpatrick> mhb: Vim!
[20:57] <mhb> jpatrick: ja to vim taky :o)
[20:58] <nosrednaekim> heh :)
[20:58] <mhb> jpatrick: ah, how I love czech puns... I'm sure you enjoy them, too
[20:58] <mhb> jpatrick: (the word means "I know" in Czech)
[20:58] <mhb> so I answered: I know it, too.
[20:59] <jpatrick> mhb: aha, have to learn bis of it for UDS ,)
[20:59] <nosrednaekim> jpatrick: Kate!
[20:59] <nosrednaekim> >:(
[21:00] <jpatrick> vim ftw
[21:36] <Riddell> seele: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Prep
[21:37] <Riddell> Lure_: I don't know anything about his power manager translation fix
[21:37] <Riddell> except that I thought he had put it in already
[21:40] <Lure_> Riddell: have checked it: KAbout was changed from "power-manager" to "guidance" to pick up proper i18n catalog
[21:40] <Lure_> Riddell: but this is also used for DCOP name, so I have fixed it in kmilo
[21:41] <Riddell> Lure_: ah hah
[21:41] <Riddell> he shouldn't have changed the KaboutData name, he should have used KLocale.addCatalogue
[21:42] <Lure_> Riddell: we can want for Tonio_ to explain - I recall him hunting this for some time...
[21:43] <Lure_> s/want/wait
[21:43] <Lure_> Riddell: anyway, you have debdiff, feel free to change to whatever you decide with Tonio_ the right name should be ;-)
[21:44] <Riddell> Lure_: excellent, thanks!
[21:44] <Riddell> jussi01: ^^
[21:45] <Lure_> Riddell: will you approve nosrednaekim and claydoh? they got +1 from nixternal and me after the meeting
[21:46] <Riddell> Lure_: I can do that now
[21:46] <Riddell> Lure_: did you pay attention to the plasma meeting?
[21:47] <Lure_> Riddell: some of it - it took ages
[21:47] <Riddell> Lure_: anything interesting happen?
[21:47] <Lure_> Riddell: they will have major backport of nice-to-have features for 4.0.2 (and 4.0.3 if some left)
[21:48] <Lure_> Riddell: this should be fine for Hardy
[21:48] <Lure_> Riddell: full minutes are here: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Projects/Plasma/20080209
[21:51]  * Lure_ -> bed, good night all!
[21:51] <nosrednaekim> good night
[21:52] <nosrednaekim> thanks for voting for me Lure_
[21:52] <Lure_> nosrednaekim: you deserve it!
[21:52] <Lure_> nosrednaekim: thanks you and looking forward for more contributiions from you
[21:53] <nosrednaekim> looking forward to contributing more:)
[22:59] <claydoh> Lure_ and nixternal thanks for the +1 from you guys
[23:00]  * nosrednaekim dances with claydoh
[23:08] <nixternal> no problem, thank you guys for all of your help!
[23:10]  * claydoh watches out for nosrednaekim 's toes while doing his two-step :)
[23:10] <mhb> nixternal: I said java is pretty resource-consuming the other day.
[23:10] <mhb> nixternal: I apologize.
[23:10] <mhb> nixternal: I've run some java apps on my "minimum requirements" machine today, and it's not bad.
[23:11] <nosrednaekim> mhb: heh, my brother'sjava prof, in his first class demonstrated how terrible of a language java is..
[23:14] <mhb> well it's no lisp
[23:14] <nosrednaekim> he wrote a program to do the same thing in both java and C, the C program completed in 20 minutes, the java one took a whole day
[23:14] <nixternal> mhb: ya, as long as the programmer does his work right, Java can be quick...but a lot of the apps that our out there, are from programmers who are quite new since Java is a newb language
[23:15] <nixternal> I have been doing the Project Euler stuff in both C++ and in Java, and they both complete in the same amount of time
[23:15] <mhb> nosrednaekim: I would say it's the failure of the Java environment, not the language itself
[23:15] <nixternal> like C++, there are plenty of Java toolkits that do what Sun intended to do, just a little more efficiently
[23:16] <nosrednaekim> yes, that would be true.
[23:16] <nixternal> you will see the inclusion of some of the new toolkits with the next release supposedly
[23:16] <mhb> nosrednaekim: the "quality" of the language for me is this ratio "how fast you can write it / how fast it runs "
[23:16] <mhb> in Python, you can write stuff really fast
[23:16] <mhb> but it's not C when it comes to crunching
[23:16] <nosrednaekim> is python faster than Java?
[23:16] <nixternal> I am actually starting to grasp Python and PyQt4 quite decent actually
[23:17] <nixternal> nosrednaekim: they are about the same
[23:17] <nosrednaekim> s what I figured.
[23:17] <nixternal> but you can make either really slow, or you can make them really fast, depends on how you code them
[23:17] <nixternal> s/code them/code with them
[23:17] <nosrednaekim> right
[23:18] <mhb> what I find interesting on Lisp is that you can both compile it to bytecode and machine code
[23:18] <mhb> which is something I wanted for a long time
[23:18] <nixternal> Lisp isn't a language I have really concentrated on
[23:19] <nixternal> I have been to a few talks recently on Erlang, OCaml, and Objective-C...what I have seen them do thus far is pretty nice
[23:19] <mhb> nixternal: well Lisp is pretty interesting, too
[23:19] <neversfelde|mobi> Erlang. hehe
[23:20] <neversfelde|mobi> i studied in erlangen, germany
[23:20] <nixternal> hehe
[23:20] <neversfelde|mobi> highlighted ;)
[23:20] <nixternal> we have PyCon 2008 in a few weeks right up the street..but the price they are charging to go is nuts
[23:20] <mhb> nixternal: it's one of the oldest languages out there and yet it never went out of style
[23:21] <nixternal> for a student they want $125..I only want to go 1 maybe 2 days tops, and $125 isn't worth it
[23:21] <neversfelde|mobi> erlang is only used for ejabberd, isn't it?
[23:21] <nixternal> well, people are using it more and more..they are even starting an Erlang group here in Chicago, as there are about 25 or more that always show up to the LUG and give talks on it
[23:23] <mhb> what I find interesting is that there are so few language dialects
[23:23] <mhb> in programming
[23:24] <mhb> of course, I'm always looking for patterns and similarities, and I'm pretty sure dialects are bound to appear quite soon
[23:25] <neversfelde|mobi> I'd love to learn some python or C, but I do not have the right job for that
[23:25] <mhb> say you liked C-style structure over python's implicit indentation and no ;, so you'll write it as you would in C with the lots of {}, only using different names for functions) and then you'd translate it to classical Python
[23:26] <mhb> pretty much similar to what real languages do
[23:26] <mhb> but it hasn't happened yet - usually every language brings a new set of syntax, which I find silly
[23:26] <mhb> say Ruby.
[23:26] <mhb> what is so good on their syntax?
[23:27] <mhb> why couldn't they have used Python's and just rename the functions and add some operators maybe?
[23:27]  * mhb has no clue
[23:27]  * mhb has a monologue, though
[23:27]  * mhb shuts up
[23:27] <emonkey> :)
[23:28] <neversfelde|mobi> pluralism is not so bad at the beginning
[23:28]  * neversfelde|mobi does not know when the first real language appeared
[23:28] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: I understand the notion of say dropping some control structures.
[23:29] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: like dropping the C-style for
[23:29] <neversfelde|mobi> but programming languages are very young in comparison^^
[23:29] <mhb> yes
[23:29] <emonkey> ich kann und will das gerade nicht auf englisch sagen aber ihr beide versteht mich ja auch auf deutsch. Ich verstehe einfach nicht warum man bei einer Sprache wie Java wo man schon so vieles dem Coder abnimmt, man zum Beispiel dennoch Arrays selber initialiseren muss. Doofe Sache
[23:30] <mhb> hmm, warum denkst du dass ich Deutsch verstehe?
[23:30] <neversfelde|mobi> und ich erst :)
[23:30] <emonkey> Weil ich das weiss :)
[23:31] <blizzzek> gn8
[23:31] <mhb> nighty night
[23:31] <emonkey> Ausserdem ist es fragwürdig keine assoziativen Arrays und switches machen zu können
[23:31] <emonkey> in java natürlich, obwohl das in Sachen perfomance da eh nix mehr bringt
[23:31] <emonkey> Hashmaps sind da nicht inbedingt schneller
[23:32]  * emonkey weiss eigentlich nur warum er java nicht mag ;)
[23:32] <emonkey> So jetzt aber genug hier mit Deutsch gespamt
[23:32] <emonkey> :)
[23:32] <neversfelde|mobi> :)
[23:34] <mhb> emonkey: I expect the compilers to evolve fast, so they'll understand the code better and create optimalized machine code without us (programmers) having to declare everything
[23:34] <emonkey> sounds nice
[23:34] <emonkey> hopefully
[23:34] <mhb> emonkey: because I guess they're still stupid in a lot of ways, I don't think compilers understand more complex C structures longer than several lines
[23:35] <mhb> emonkey: there's a clear analogy - it's the same as with real languages
[23:35] <mhb> emonkey: the current decoders don't really understand what the speaker says
[23:35] <emonkey> that's true
[23:35] <mhb> emonkey: they just hear sounds and translate them using a database
[23:35] <mhb> emonkey: if the computer understood, it could create the perfect translation
[23:36] <mhb> the same goes with computer code
[23:36] <mhb> the more the compiler understands what the programmer is trying to do, the more it can optimize it and translate it to machine code better
[23:38] <mhb> my opinion is that you should learn (and work with) the most high-level language there is (of course a good one)
[23:38] <emonkey> unfortunately a difficult issue
[23:38] <mhb> because a) compilers and intepreters get smart fast
[23:38] <mhb> b) Moore's law speeds up machines so your code will be faster in a year
[23:40] <neversfelde|mobi> ryanakca: was there a decision about the design contest yesterday?
[23:43] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: no
[23:44] <neversfelde|mobi> ok, thx. We are looking forward to change kubuntu-de.org's design, but it should be similar to kubuntu.org.
[23:44] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: I think we're going for the dmiller/nixternal's version
[23:44] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: but ask ryan, please, he's the boss
[23:45] <neversfelde|mobi> Ilove mockup4
[23:45] <neversfelde|mobi> it is really good
[23:48] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: yes, I like it too, more or less
[23:49] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: although dmiller's one is a bit less cluttered, I like that
[23:49] <mhb> neversfelde|mobi: that's why I said I expect the result to have some of this & some of that
[23:50] <neversfelde|mobi> mhh, my favourite is no 4 :)
[23:52] <emonkey> ^ ^
[23:52] <emonkey> the nice thing is that every of the mockups looks much better than the old site :)
[23:53] <mhb> emonkey: yeah
[23:54] <neversfelde|mobi> my first and last inkscape experience :)
[23:54] <neversfelde|mobi> the old site is not so bad
[23:55] <neversfelde|mobi> I like the blog style
[23:55] <emonkey> The old page isn't bad but I like all the mockups more.
[23:56]  * emonkey hope there will be something new an fresh like nixternals mockups, I really like them
[23:56] <emonkey> especially the second
[23:57] <neversfelde|mobi> time to sleep. gn8
[23:57] <emonkey> I agree :)
[23:57] <emonkey> nearly 1 am here in europe, gn8 to germany an czech
[23:58] <emonkey> and all other guys out there of course
[23:58] <neversfelde|mobi> emonkey: no difference ;)
[23:58] <neversfelde|mobi> n8