[03:56] <abdulla> guys im fed up of these themes , their is about 8 people who are wise enough to make great themes like LXG .
[03:57] <abdulla> im wondering why people are doing these scary / gothic / sad themes
[03:57] <abdulla> and we dont want windows themes
[03:57] <abdulla> i think many are lazy to speak this but now let me represent the 17,000 ubuntu users
[03:58] <abdulla> if ubuntu want to succeed for 8.04 i recommend :) a theme to be in with hardy , a theme that will be unique not dark but a colory theme which makes the eye comfortable with the use but not complication
[03:59] <Toma-> have you got anything to submit?
[03:59] <abdulla> i hope the art people can dream the answer because even me i dont know how a comfortable theme must be but my theory is their
[04:00] <abdulla> nothing to submit but my analogy of comfort says most themes are black and sad we want something like LXG but greater and it can be greater if people work hard on it like they do with gothic themes
[04:01] <Toma-> lxg?
[04:01] <abdulla> letme show u
[04:02] <abdulla> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/LXG+%28LinuX+G%29?content=72870
[04:03] <abdulla> brb
[04:03] <Toma-> are you on the mailing list?
[04:10] <abdulla> back Toma- wwhat mailing list?
[04:10] <Toma-> the ubuntu-art mailing list
[04:10] <abdulla> for?
[04:10] <Toma-> thats where all the development is.
[04:10] <abdulla> i didnt get you
[04:10] <abdulla> i visit gnome-look.org
[04:10] <Toma-> i wouldnt rant in IRC about what needs changing and fixing.
[04:11] <Toma-> also, the stuff on gnome-look is generally not whats going into the next ubuntu
[04:14] <abdulla> i dont want to speak to ubuntu - art list is their a linux art list? something i can talk to the osts around debian art ubuntu art red hat art etc.. , because maybe i can get great feedback which hopefully i have ingitiated a dejavu wakeup call from their nightmare themes which they are diving deep insuch projects i just hope they realise and maybe change their route and style this will give a great score for LINUX as a great System
[04:14] <abdulla>  then MAC and WIndows not only great , but cooler :)
[04:16] <abdulla> im in ubuntu-art where is the mailing list?
[04:18] <Toma-> Goooooogle http://www.google.com/
[04:19] <Toma-> the thing is, alot of the art for distros comes from the community
[04:19] <Toma-> so there may be piles and piles of crub themes there are also some great themes out there
[04:19] <Toma-> same with the windows community
[04:19] <Toma-> the default works ok, then you can get some nice themes, and some Hello Kitty themes
[04:20] <abdulla> hehehe so men must be the gothic life
[04:21] <abdulla> i dont know why im complaining after i use LXG and clear looks but  im not an arts person but im a manager which i want to be suited with comfort rather then a client who works
[04:22] <Toma-> exactly.
[04:22] <abdulla> see , if a system wants to win it must be very clear :) something which gives the sytem a glossy happiness
[04:22] <Toma-> no-one i speak to in the community uses the default theme anyway
[04:22] <abdulla> do you know what i dont like about the backgrounds? it disturbs the themes do you know that?
[04:22] <Toma-> personally, gloss makes me sick
[04:23] <abdulla> you must have a background to match a reciprocal of your theme so it may look good
[04:23] <abdulla> no i just wish if their is an engine or something im not good in computer talks but i mean something which will make the back ground become 8 frames behind the themes and windows which will make theme show clearer however when minimize to desktop the background gets back to default 8 steps forward
[04:25] <Toma-> fullstops...
[04:25] <abdulla> i mean by 8 frames away from the windwos/themes i mean that not 8 frames as go behind but 8 frames means X8 reversable in colors etc.. which shows the picture as its getting mozarty style which makes the theme show better and concentration and comfort of eye is better
[04:25] <abdulla> the art people know what im talking about
[04:25] <abdulla> somebody send these logs to ubuntu art lo
[04:26] <Toma-> mozart style?
[04:26] <Toma-> ...he was a musician...
[04:26] <abdulla> no i dont know what was it
[04:26] <abdulla> mozart its something similar in words
[04:26] <abdulla> which makes photo lower in gaze get it?
[04:26] <Toma-> monet?
[04:27] <abdulla> dunno lets see this
[04:27] <Toma-> ive got to run, sorry
[04:27] <abdulla> i wish im an artist
[04:27] <abdulla> take care Toma-
[04:27] <abdulla> if any art french man here please read all i wrote he might get it
[04:27] <abdulla> cya and i hope somebody do such theme :)
[04:27] <abdulla> and make such engine
[04:27] <abdulla> and technology
[13:09] <troy_s> Otkadeto returns!
[13:12] <_MMA_> Where!?
[13:13] <Toma-> hey _MMA_
[13:13] <Toma-> I know you like the grunge thing...
[13:13] <Toma-> http://members.iinet.net.au/~haste/e17/Untitled.png
[13:14] <Toma-> the cool think about e17, is that with the right coding, those little corners will work on any resolution without and issues
[13:14] <Toma-> :P
[13:14] <_MMA_> Toma-: troy_s might be the guy to talk to about that for out Hardy+1 release. :P
[13:15] <Toma-> cool :)
[13:25] <maximilion> Good afternoon :)
[13:26] <maximilion> What's the best program to create "animated PNG" cursors?
[13:26] <maximilion> (PNG as in 8 bit transparency)
[13:40] <kwwii> maximilion: what kind of animation? png does not support animation in and of itself
[13:44] <maximilion> Well, .mng I guess?
[13:44] <maximilion> I just installed Ubuntu 3 days ago, a bit wet behind my ears :)
[13:45] <maximilion> But I don't know how to go from .mng to a theme package, so it can be installed and used...
[13:48] <kwwii> if you want to make an mng you can use imagemagick
[13:49] <kwwii> just make all the states as png files and then use imagemigick to create an mng out of them
[13:49] <kwwii> there are scripts for turning pixmaps into the right format for the cursors
[13:57] <maximilion> No icon editors? :o
[13:57] <kwwii> hehe, nope
[13:57] <maximilion> I found one, anyway: "Gnome Icon Editor". If it can save .xpm, can the cursor then be installed?
[13:58] <maximilion> URL: http://linuxappfinder.com/package/gnome-iconedit
[14:00] <kwwii> xpm does not support animation, it is a simple pixmap format
[14:00] <kwwii> and even gimp would save xpm files
[14:01] <_MMA_> GIMP also saves .mng.
[14:01] <maximilion> Yeah, it didn't say it supported animated cursors.
[14:02] <maximilion> I didn't know .xpm didn't support animation - is there a file extension for animated cursors?
[14:02] <_MMA_> Best to grab a set and look.
[14:02] <kwwii> maximilion: the cursors are not in xpm format anyway
[14:03] <kwwii> they have their own format
[14:03] <kwwii> hi _MMA_
[14:03] <maximilion> _MMA_: It seems people use icon-slicer to get an XML file+cursor/icon files to make a theme package?
[14:03] <_MMA_> GIMP *might* do it with the gimp-gap plugin.
[14:04] <_MMA_> maximilion: No clue.
[14:04] <_MMA_> kwwii: Hi
[14:05] <kwwii> maximilion: no idea, the only way I have ever done it is using the scripts available with X using both png and svg as source files
[14:05] <kwwii> in any case you will still need to draw each state of the animation
[14:05] <kwwii> s/state/frame
[14:06] <_MMA_> yep.
[14:07] <maximilion> Yeah, don't need to be doing anything extreme, basically I just want to instantly see where the pointer is just by looking at the screen
[14:08] <maximilion> So there is no filetype associated with "replace 'pointer' cursor with this animation please"? :)
[14:08] <_MMA_> maximilion: Comb through gnome-look. Should give you an idea.
[14:09] <maximilion> I would have to make a theme consisting of 1 XML file and 1 "pointer" file? XML is no problem I think, I could look at an existing theme. But I would need to know how to make the cursorfile though, since it has no extension or anything.
[14:10] <maximilion> If I could draw frames in gimp or export from imagemagick, I could just replace that file I'm currently using?
[14:11] <maximilion> You should add .org to that _MMA_ - some of us don't know all the Linux sites yet ;)
[14:11] <_MMA_> Bet to try yourself. Just start hacking. ;)
[14:12] <_MMA_> *Best
[14:12] <maximilion> I thought it was a utility, like gconf-editor :)
[14:13] <kwwii> nope, you cannot just replace the existing cursors with an xpm or png
[14:14] <kwwii> basically you create the files and then use xcursorgen to make the actual files that X can use
[14:16] <kwwii> that script needs png files
[14:16] <kwwii> you also have to define the nominal size and hotspot information
[14:17] <kwwii> erm, as well as a ms-delay for an animation
[14:17] <maximilion> Yes, which is what you usually do in an icon editor ;)
[14:17] <maximilion> So imagemagick can't do this?
[14:17] <kwwii> I have never seen an icon editor which can do this
[14:17] <kwwii> cursors are not icons ;-)
[14:18] <maximilion> I think this a good start utility when I setup coding SDL ;)
[14:19] <_MMA_> maximilion: It's really just a situation where digging up documentation on the web is best. Help here would require alot of hand-holding. Why I haven't tried to do it myself. ;) Tools on linux can be very different. You wont always find what you're used to from another OS.
[14:19] <maximilion> kwwii: Well, I meant cursor editor... many come as editors for both cursors and icons
[14:20] <kwwii> maximilion: on which platform?
[14:20] <maximilion> Coding SDL? Linux ofc :)
[14:20] <maximilion> I will look if my aniCursor on XP will export Linux themes
[14:21] <maximilion> Food! Back in a bit, thanks to all of you for you help :D
[14:22] <kwwii> these editors you have used in XP allow you to enter the hotspot, etc?
[14:51] <maximilion> kwwii: Yes, of course. Such as these http://www.bluechillies.com/software/icon-edit-linux.html
[14:54] <kwwii> maximilion: it doesn't look like any of those will export cursors for X though :-(
[15:04] <maximilion> No, one of them imported them though
[15:07] <maximilion> kwwii: AniCursor didn't either. So I think I will get proper docs or ask at gnome-look.org, and make a utility.
[15:08] <Toma-> can gnome background do anything cool in terms of relation to the corners and alignment?
[15:08] <_MMA_> Toma-: Only with Brightside or Compiz. AFAIK
[15:09] <Toma-> Ahh ok
[16:12]  * kwwii heads home for the day
[19:32] <salty-horse> troy_s, have you, by any chance, found where the Human arrow icons are? :)
[19:41] <kwwii> salty-horse: they would be in the human theme :-)
[19:42] <salty-horse> kwwii, I looked hard and didn't find them
[19:43] <_MMA_> Which arrows?
[19:44] <_MMA_>  /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/actions ?
[19:46] <thorwil> yep, there's back and forward
[19:46] <salty-horse> no. the ones that appear in, say, gnome-panel's hide buttons
[19:46] <salty-horse> and in scrollbars
[19:46] <salty-horse> (if those are the same)
[19:46] <_MMA_> Thats part of the theme.
[19:47] <thorwil> not icon theme, but widget theme
[19:47] <_MMA_> Dependent on the engine I believe.
[19:47] <_MMA_> Yeah ^^^
[19:47] <kwwii> those are drawn with cairo
[19:47] <kwwii> no easy way to get to those
[19:47] <kwwii> but it should be really easy to draw them
[19:48] <thorwil> a one eyed man could do it with one hand tied on his back!!
[19:49] <kwwii> :p
[19:50]  * _MMA_ pokes thorwil in the eye.
[19:51] <salty-horse> but where are they defined? (the drawing instructions)
[19:51] <thorwil> _MMA_ hits glass
[19:51] <thorwil> salty-horse: what do you want to do with it?
[19:52] <salty-horse> I want to figure out why the arrows in the gnome-panel's hide buttons are misaligned. the left one is ok, but the right one is off by a pixel (both buttons are the same width, but the arrows are not positioned the same way inside them -- Clearlooks is fine, Human isn't)
[19:55] <thorwil> salty-horse: you might have more luck in ubuntu-desktop, as this purely technical now. you could also file a bug report and see ...
[19:56] <salty-horse> I'll file a report, let the magic elves do the hard work :)
[19:56] <_MMA_> Id file against ubuntlooks as thats the engine it uses.
[19:57] <salty-horse> ok
[20:23] <kwwii> my guess is that is has something to do with how it is antialiased