[00:00] persia: before I goto sleep, whats your opinion on my package re superm1 comments, he said to ask you [00:00] DaveMorris: Pass me a link? I wasn't sure what I should be looking at from scrollback [00:00] well someone more seasoned at library packaging at least [00:00] http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=gtkglextmm is the link [00:02] DaveMorris: I think you already had a discussion with slangasek about the package naming and splitting. Do you remember the results of that? [00:03] * persia vaguely remembers that there was no advantage to splitting due to interdependencies affecting ABI, and that lintian was more correct than linda about SONAMEs with '-' characters. [00:03] yeah, he was happy to have the 2 of them in the same package, would prefer 2 packages. Just wanted it to see them changed from the old name. I'd prefer them in 1 since they depend on each other [00:04] Makes sense to me to have one package to avoid circular dependencies. [00:05] I'm fading... but a first rough draft of the upstream guide can now be seen at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpstreamGuide [00:05] I encourage all to contribute [00:05] superm1: Do you have a strong opinion either way? Shall we push this through, or did you want something else adjusted? [00:05] persia, that was the only thing i saw wrong with it [00:05] well iffy is a better word than wrong [00:06] and without having a ton of experience with libraries i didn't want to advocate on that basis [00:06] superm1: I'm still catching up on my communications, but if you add advocating, I'll push it if I don't encounter something else. [00:06] okay will do [00:07] superm1: don't know if you saw my message from awhile ago [00:07] superm1: i uploaded another fixed one [00:07] mok0: does case stories become a name and shame ;) [00:07] rjmyst3, after i left a comment? [00:07] hmm [00:07] dunno [00:07] :) [00:07] sorry [00:08] one more thing regarding licensing that was sticking out [00:08] hexmode: Thanks for the help. The package is up waiting to be built. [00:08] DaveMorris: I imagine they could be illustrative. In any case, I think a humerous tone would be fitting [00:08] start of with a "The names of packages has been changed to hide their identities" [00:09] DaveMorris: hehe [00:09] steveire: cool [00:09] DaveMorris: yeah why not [00:10] hmmm, hardy is stuck trying to setup gnome-settings-daemon anyway I can get more info on why it's stuck? [00:11] superm1: do i past the entire contents of those licenses? [00:11] rjmyst3, yes in this case [00:11] there is also the wxWindows License [00:11] that was GPL2 [00:11] yes, ok [00:11] from what I saw though [00:12] right [00:12] mok0: That's a great start. Thank you very much. [00:12] how do i introduce those licenses in the copyright file? [00:12] hm, am I having a big lag or did you two just chat faster than normal people would talk? [00:12] or no intro, just paste them one after the other? [00:12] persia: I think it may be quite useful [00:13] mok0: Yes, both for upstreams who come here to ask for help, and as a reference for packagers discussing with upstreams. [00:13] rjmyst3, well a small description saying something like "the source for boost is included as well, and covered by XYZ" [00:13] persia: We can fill in as the ideas arise.. [00:13] and then i like to add some dashes in between the licenses so you know when one starts and one ends [00:13] rjmyst3: in debian/copyright you would not post the complete licenses, that is for upstream COPYING only, right superm1? [00:14] HighNo, well in this case the license isn't available in common-licenses [00:14] debian/copyright needs to have the complete text of any licenses not included verbatim under /usr/share/common-licenses [00:15] HighNo, additionally the COPYING file needs to be included by upstream in the root of the source package [00:15] superm1: Ah ok, I should have startet reading ealier... OK - got that [00:15] which will be a bullet in that upstream guide that is being authored [00:15] superm1: you know I do know that by now :-) [00:15] HighNo, ah yeah i mentioned that on revu, that's right [00:16] * HighNo has learned many packaging things the hard way, upload by upload ;-) [00:18] sistpoty: In case you want backscroll, I don't want =${binary:Version} for arch:all depending on arch:any because it would break if this were Debian. [00:20] superm1: did you notice the exception notice at the end of the wxWindows License? [00:20] superm1: this is the gist of it "The exception is that you may use, copy, link, modify and distribute under your own terms, binary object code versions of works based on the Library." [00:21] then that is no longer verbatim GPL, and needs to be copied into debian/copyright, right? [00:24] rjmyst3, you are correct. i just looked at the wxwidgets source, and its entire license is included verbatim in its source package [00:24] good catch. [00:24] ok [00:24] cool [00:25] emgent: sorry? if you like, srue [00:25] Is anybody having problems with launchpad atm? [00:25] Hobbsee, heheh thanks [00:26] TheMuso: always. any in particular? [00:26] TheMuso: topic of #launchpad. [00:26] Hobbsee: the oops perhaps? :p [00:26] crimsun: Thanks. [00:26] Well an oops is not the best way to say, we're down. [00:27] Hrm. I must not have read very well, because I missed the announcement. [00:27] people one question [00:28] don't worry, I completely wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for elmo changing the topic while I was watching the buffer. [00:28] emgent: That sentence no verb [00:28] hehe [00:28] ok sorry persia :) [00:28] crimsun: I'm not worried at all. [00:29] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lastfm/+bug/190819 [00:29] Launchpad bug 190819 in lastfm "Please merge lastfm 1.4.2.58240.dfsg-1 (universe) from Debian unstable" [Undecided,New] [00:29] we introduced libgpod-nogtk-dev and libgpod-nogtk in =>hardy [00:29] i should work in backports ? [00:30] in merge i adopt debian changes [00:30] (with libgpod-nogtk-dev && libgpod-nogtk) [00:31] imho it'snt necessary work to gutsy backport, it's true ? [00:35] some idea? [00:35] s/idea/opinion/ [00:42] evening [00:49] superm1: i've updated debian/copyright and uploaded another one [00:49] ok [01:11] !httpflood [01:11] Sorry, I don't know anything about httpflood - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [01:11] !help [01:11] I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots [01:11] !login ubuntu bot [01:11] !login ubuntubot [01:11] Sorry, I don't know anything about login ubuntubot - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [01:12] n3t_decrip70r: what are you trying to do? [01:13] anyone have a few minutes to do an easy revu? [01:15] http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=atomicparsley if anyone is interested [01:26] could I get a motu to look at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=php-xdebug ?? [01:27] did additional dputs to fix lintian errors but they don't seem to take... so I must be confused. [01:34] tsmithe: You have 10 hours to update fluid-soundfont on REVU, or I will, as that is a great find, and should really be in hardy :) [01:36] persia, what's with the sudden interest in audio related things (that midi thing and soundonts now)? [01:37] superm1: Not a sudden interest. The lack of working MIDI out of the box has been bothering me for a while. During hardy, there was enough interest from others to get enough done that there is a chance that MIDI will work out of the box for once. [01:37] ah yeah [01:38] I'm just noisy about it now because of pending Feature Freeze :) [01:41] mok0: Is a watch file or get-orig-source impossible for clipper? Why? [01:42] persia: because the version is not encoded in the tar file. It's called clipper20ac-current.tar.gz or some such [01:43] mok0: That explains the watch file. How about get-orig-source? [01:43] I could make that target I guess [01:44] I already tried to persuade upstream to change his ways but to no avail [01:44] mok0: OK. Given the deadline, please add my soon pending comments to REVU on your TODO list. [01:44] persia: I will [01:44] (unless I find something else) [01:44] thx [02:22] Bah! I give up. Anyone else want to try something with bug #111555? [02:24] superm1: Just in case you get a FTBFS after gmyth-dev gets in, my fix was only http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/4421/. I was never successful in getting the patch to unpatch cleanly. [02:38] persia, okay thanks. hopefully it gets in soon. my free time will be dwindling fairly quickly [02:40] superm1: Heh. Any chance you'd like to try to integrate wildmidi as well? The docs indicate that it should just work, but there seems to be some strange coordination between the configuration of wildmidi and timidity in the autotools configuration that keeps stumping me, compounded by http://paste.ubuntu.com/4422/ once I finally got it built. [02:41] persia, sure if i get this lirc patch that i've been stumped on working, i'll give it a run [02:41] superm1: Would another pair of eyes help? [02:41] persia, possibly. let me finish the current train of thought and i'll push it to bzr === lamalex_2 is now known as lamalex === zakame_ is now known as zakame [02:58] persia, okay yeah my last thought process didn't work out. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/lirc/ubuntu [02:58] so what i'm looking to do is let the modules be built via dkms [02:58] so that people can patch the source files with local patches in between releases and have the drivers automatically rebuilt [02:58] they are automatically shipped with linux-ubuntu-modules normally === zakame_ is now known as zakame [03:14] superm1: OK. I've gotten a bit of a look at the source, and dkms (I'm more used to module-assistant). So the issue is that the new modules need to conflict with the modules provided by linux-ubuntu-modules? [03:14] persia, well the issue was dkms wasn't building properly [03:14] i appear to have configured a few things wrong [03:15] which i am catching now going in verbose [03:15] persia, don't worry about it, i should be able to resolve these now [03:15] superm1: OK. Glad to hear it. === zakame_ is now known as zakame === greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco [04:10] superm1 and persia: The upstream packager for dkms is in channel ( mdomsch ), FYI. [04:10] ScottK, i sorted out the issue [04:10] OK. Just saying ... [04:10] ScottK, so i'll just need to grab kees or another core-dev to sponsor at some point. thanks though :) === zakame_ is now known as zakame === bmk789 is now known as bmk789_sleep [04:53] Wow. Nautilus is not even mounting the DVD/CD drive on /media/cdrom0 when its in the fstab. === asac_ is now known as asac [04:58] Do the Ubuntu build servers sometimes take an incredibly long time after building to transfer the debs over, or do they tend to get lost? [04:58] persia, you sure you uploaded wildmidi? [04:58] its not in NEW [04:59] superm1: I'm sure I uploaded it. I also uploaded a couple other things today, and am still waiting for either Accepted or NEW messages. [04:59] persia, hm interesting. [05:00] superm1: Aside from textual changes to changelog, copyright, and control, http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/w/wildmidi/wildmidi_0.2.2-1.dsc ought to work if you just want to dget. [05:01] persia, very good i'll build it locally then and see if anything stands out on gst [05:01] persia, when you build with my gmyth, which one was it? [05:01] there are two in NEW [05:01] one was a follow up after upstream let me know of something that needed to be in it [05:01] svn916 [05:02] okay yeah that's the latest [05:02] For gmyth, there was just the extra '/'. [05:04] anyone know of a simple and dirty CLI burning frontend that takes syntax like "burncd file_1 dir_2 file_3" before I go out and write one for a script? [05:04] superm1: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4423/ is the complete debdiff of where I got stuck. [05:04] I realize it's almost a trivial layer of genisofs | wodim. [05:07] is motu in charge of backports? [05:08] Aloha: No, but the leaders of the backport team are coincidentally MOTU. You might try #ubuntu-backports [05:08] persia, thnx [05:08] persia, heh its me and chanserv in there [05:09] jdong: Umm. Oughtn't you be there too? [05:09] anyway links in browser for firefox 3 in backports give 404 [05:09] where do i file bug? [05:09] persia: hehe. [05:09] Aloha: can you elaborate? [05:09] Aloha> eh? [05:10] jdong, yeah for example: file->help->release notes goes to 404 page [05:10] That's by design. [05:10] oh.... [05:10] Mozilla doesn't have a release notes page for 3.0b3 yet. [05:10] gotcha [05:10] startup page is 404 too [05:10] Aloha: right, it's probably due to the fact 3.0b3 doesn't even exist [05:10] is that by design? [05:11] Aloha: hardy has a 3.0b3 prelease [05:11] Probably not, let me check in my compiled from source version [05:11] oh its a prerelease gotcha [05:11] it's a prerelease of a prerelease :) [05:11] jdong, gutsy has prerelease now too :) [05:11] Aloha: yes, that was by design too :) === kdu1 is now known as kduboi1 [05:12] yes, it's a CVS snapshot === kduboi1 is now known as kdub432 === kdub432 is now known as kdu1 [05:12] gotcha [05:13] why did they put a cvs snapshot of a prerelease of a prerelease on backports? [05:13] just because its so popular? [05:13] Aloha: I did it because it's better than the granparadiso prelease earlier [05:13] jdong, gotcha [05:13] Aloha: and for several users who requested it, a better experience than FF2 [05:13] Aloha: the native look and feel is improved, and perforamnce is dramatically improved too [05:14] since it installs side-by-side with and safely copies the profile of the existing ff2, I figured it couldn't hurt [05:14] jdong, cool i just installed it, looking forward to experience [05:14] :) [05:14] enjoy [05:14] they need to build firefox off webkit ;) [05:15] persia, i think i got it sorted out [05:15] the build is continuing through at least [05:15] so as long as it wasn't failing at the end i cleaned that patch up === kdu1 is now known as kduboi1 [05:15] superm1: What was it? [05:15] Aloha: :) [05:15] Aloha> there's epiphany-webkit [05:15] it's for some reason disabled in Ubuntu, though [05:15] LucidFox, is that in the repos? [05:15] persia, it seemed to be some mixups from tabs and spaces [05:15] no :/ [05:15] LucidFox, linkage? [05:15] i'll dput it provided i dont get a ftbfs for some reason at the end [05:15] it's enabled in Debian, though [05:16] actually, it isn't [05:16] superm1: Thanks for sorting that. I was getting a failure to initialise the plugin. Are you on amd64? Maybe there's an architectural issue as well. [05:16] persia, i'm on i386 [05:17] oh wait, it is: http://packages.qa.debian.org/e/epiphany-browser.html [05:17] http://packages.debian.org/epiphany-webkit [05:17] * persia adds verification of 64-bit cleanliness to the gstreamer-midi todo list [05:17] persia, if nothing else, as long as its enabled, even if the plugin doesn't initialize i say that it should go in now (to beat FF), and then sort out the bug when convenient === _czessi is now known as Czessi [05:18] superm1: I'd agree, but couldn't see the difference between a 64-bit issue and bad upstream code breaking the build for everyone. [05:18] LucidFox, cool [05:18] LucidFox, does it have a lot of deps? [05:18] yeah. well i'll see in a little bit [05:18] LucidFox: Aloha: You might also try midori [05:19] persia, i tried midori from stemps ppa but it said it couldn't find symbols or something like that [05:19] I tried midori, it's too raw yet :( [05:19] Aloha: Likely release skew. [05:19] persia, whats that mean? [05:20] Aloha: build environment and install environment were likely different releases, or used different libraries. If both are hardy, the PPA needs a rebuild (and the archive might). [05:20] persia, gotcha [05:22] http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?package=imapsync <-- if anybody is up for a review; got it in at the last moment last monday, so hope to get it reviewed today :) [05:22] whens featurefreeze? valentines day? [05:23] awen_: For updates to packages already in the repositories, please attach a diff.gz to a bug and subscribe the sponsors queue, rather than uploading to REVU. It is otherwise likely the package will be ignored. [05:23] Aloha: Yes. [05:24] ahh, somebody should've told me that last monday... i'll do that [05:24] how ironic [05:24] frozen hearts [05:26] woohoo http://phorolinux.com/how-to-install-epiphany-with-the-webkit-backend-on-ubuntu-710.html [05:27] Aloha> SWEEY! [05:27] * SWEET! [05:28] Wait, it tries to remove KDE4 :( [05:28] or, actually, not [05:29] kde4 should be removed anyway [05:29] * Aloha is waiting for 4.1 [05:30] I use GNOME, but there are two KDE4 applications that I use: Okular and Konqueror (the latter mainly for web page testing) [05:36] done: bug #190854 [05:38] * awen_ don't think ubotu is really well today... "Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The connect operation timed out" [05:38] ubotu is normally healthy. Launchpad is ill. [05:38] no, sadly, epiphany-webkit is also too raw :( [05:39] woah IE8 passes acid 2 browser test [05:39] Aloha> It doesn't. [05:39] lucid http://www.webstandards.org/2007/12/19/ie8-passes-acid2-test-2/ [05:39] Passing with a special compatibility tag added is not considered passing. [05:39] could also be the case [05:40] is that like a disabled parking spot ? [05:40] lifeless> What? [05:40] persia, is this what you were coming down to http://paste.ubuntu.com/4424/ [05:40] or is that a little different [05:41] superm1: That was my issue. I'm guessing that the wildmidi plugin isn't quite ready yet. [05:42] persia, did you consider updating the wildmidi plugin from CVS? [05:42] heh epiphany-webkit fails acid2 [05:42] the one for myth was rather outdated [05:42] so i updated that in my patch too [05:42] superm1: I'm very much not familiar with gstreamer, and didn't want to pull from VCS based on guessing. [05:42] persia, understandably [05:43] superm1: If you know the code well enough to judge it, and would be willing to give it a try towards closing bug #111555, I (and others) would appreciate it. If not, it can wait another release or two. [05:44] persia, i'll see if i can grabit from cvs and make any more luck, but if not i do need to do a follow up build on the gmyth build depend, i directly modified debian/control rather than debian/build-deps.in (didn't realize it used that) [05:44] superm1: Yep. debian/HACKING is a useful read, but one of the big reasons I'm not entirely comfortable playing with that package :) [05:46] heh, midori does pass acid2 [05:46] (webkit svn29844, midori 0.0.17) [05:57] persia, after exploring the code some more, simply pulling in some newer stuff from cvs isn't going to do. its a pretty significant chunk that would need to come in. [05:58] and then of course that doesn't guarantee functionality [05:58] only thing it guarantees is to make future versions much harder to merge [05:59] superm1: That's fine. Thanks for looking. Maybe drop it for now. I've advised the Debian team about wildmidi, so maybe we'll see something for lenny. If not, we can target hardy+1. [05:59] yeah [05:59] sounds like a plan [05:59] (and, yes, hardy+1 comes out around the same time as lenny, but lenny will be frozen then) [06:02] LucidFox: Do we not need iceowl for gobuntu? [06:03] persia> If that was the case, we'd need all the other ice* packages as well, and they're not in Ubuntu. [06:03] LucidFox: Hmm. OK. Let's see what an archive-admin says. [06:04] iceape was originally in Ubuntu, but was replaced by seamonkey [06:13] Anyone interested in openVZ? bug #183774 needs a little process help. [06:24] Is soyuz eating uploads tonight? [06:27] ScottK: It seems to have been doing that for at least 6 hours. [06:28] * persia is uploading anyway, but keeping all uploaded files in a special extra directory for re-upload if required [06:29] ScottK: Also, thank you for checking the licensing so carefully for things. It helps to get it right :) [06:31] persia: Thanks for the review. I'll just remove one of the unlicenced files, since it's unused, and grab the header for the other. [06:31] RAOF: Excellent. Should be good after that. [06:32] Also, what about all the AssemblyInfo.cs files? Are they supposed to be unlicensed? [06:32] persia: No problem. I actually think that's the most important thing to get right at this point (licensing). [06:32] * persia is curious for future reference for CIL stuff [06:33] persia: That's a fair point. They're so trivial that no one cared about them. [06:33] ScottK: Maybe. I'm more focused on what still needs to get in to meet my feature goals (and have recently dropped once as not ready for hardy). [06:34] Where's Tomboy's license headers, gosh darn it! [06:34] On the other hand, I have to agree that the orig.tar.gz files shouldn't change after FF, which makes licensing also key. [06:34] RAOF: File a bug :) [06:35] persia: I'm more thinking as long as the technical aspects are in the ballpark and the package is distributable, the rest can be bugfixed as needed. [06:35] But, of course, I've met my feature goal, so there's no pressure... [06:37] * RAOF wonders idly how we have tomboy 0.9.5, when tomboy's downloads page only goes up to 0.9.4 [06:37] ScottK: Ah. I'm still two features short. I'd agree with the bugfix-later plan, but still have four packages I'd like to see in NEW this week. [06:37] (and unfortunately, build-deps for three of them are stuck in NEW, complicating things) [06:38] Err. Two now. The situation improves :) [06:38] RAOF: Does tomboy's watch file debian/copyright, or get-orig-source provide any hints? [06:38] grep -i copyright Tomboy/*.cs... chirping crickets. [06:38] You could always request removal for lack of licensing... [06:39] Of course my goals for this release were modest since I kicked the development cycle off by quitting. ;-) [06:39] * RAOF files a frikkin bug. [06:39] Share the licensing hate around! [06:40] Yep. Everything should be licensed. That's part of why we have the guideline about three pairs of eyes for every new package. Unfortunately, some things slip through... [06:43] * persia is willing to review something: anyone have anything stuck in the REVU queue that should be in hardy and a convincing reason why? [06:45] * ScottK is doing poppler-data right now. [06:45] * persia looks forward to being able to read PDF files again [06:47] * ScottK suggest lib-apache2-asp=perl as perhaps worthwhile. [06:49] Lack of licensing comes under the "High" importance, yes? [06:50] Yes [06:51] RAOF: I think so. Affects all Ubuntu users in a severe manner. [06:51] Actually, I'd consider critical as a possibility. [06:51] Note that this is for tomboy. If an obsolete package with 3 users had licensing problems, it is likely Medium or Low (Importance is for the distro, not for the package) [06:52] Right. [06:52] Yeah. [06:52] So probably Hig [06:52] High even [06:52] ScottK: I don't think critical, just High. Falls under " Makes a default Ubuntu installation generally unusable for some users" and " Has a moderate impact on a large portion of Ubuntu users (estimated)", but not quite "A bug which has a severe impact on a large portion of Ubuntu users". === zakame__ is now known as zakame [06:53] * persia notes that no bug in Universe can be "High", but tops off at "Medium". [06:55] Well a court injunction to stop distributing Ubuntu because it was distributing copyright packages with no license, while unlikely, would certainly affect all users. [06:55] And with that... [06:55] Good night all. [06:55] Night1 [06:55] Good night ScottK [06:59] good morning [06:59] hey dholbach [06:59] * persia seeks Dan Sheridan [07:00] hey persia [07:00] Regarding libapache2-asp-perl, it seems to be a merge from Debian, adjusted to use apache2 (Hurrah!). Any objections to changing the source name back to match Debian and processing as a merge, rather than REVU? [07:00] persia: that sounds like a very good ifdea [07:00] idea [07:01] dholbach: Thanks, but I hope to hear from the person who prepared the package before hijacking it :) [07:01] hehe [07:02] Huzzah for "GPL 2.1 or later". That's incorporatable into a GPLv3 package, right? Do I need to bump the GPL version to 3? [07:03] RAOF: It may be incorporated. Only bump the licensing on the source if you are making other changes that you are licensing under GPL3 only, otherwise just reference it in debian/copyright. [07:04] Score. I suppose, to be safe, I should reference [07:04] Whoops. [07:04] The main idea being that if someone wants to later reincorporate back into something GPL2.1 they may, as long as they only take from that file. [07:05] (otherwise you are forcing your license choice on the end-users, which doesn't grant them the same rights you were granted under the license, which isn't nice) [07:05] Of course, if you change it, then it's your code, to license as you like :) [07:05] So, this file has no copyright headers, and is taken from Tomboy (which has no copyright headers). It's GPLv2.1+, but who (if anyone) to put as the copyright holder? [07:06] RAOF: Check tomboy VCS commit history? Ask upstream? Kick the tomboy maintainers? [07:06] Hm. VCS commit history! Good idea. [07:06] GPLv2.1? o_O [07:06] RAOF: Are the copyright holders really not listed in tomboy's debian/copyright? [07:07] persia: Yes. [07:07] * persia is stunned that such a package made it into the archives [07:07] There are a bunch of people listed in AUTHORS, though. [07:07] It's obvious that debian/copyright hasn't been touched in *some* time. Since well before tomboy was a part of Gnome. [07:07] They probably have copyright, but no guarantees. A couple packages I've been working with recently had clearly separated copyright attribution and authorship. [07:08] And Tomboy's in main, too. [07:08] * RAOF puzzles with persia. [07:08] Quick! To the bat-svn-blame! [07:08] LucidFox: Good point. There doesn't appear to be a GPLv2.1 [07:08] RAOF: Maybe LGPL? [07:08] Yes. [07:09] Well, LGPL contains an explicit conversion clause to GPL. [07:09] * persia enjoys that there actually is a "svn blame" command [07:09] But described as the GPL 2.1. [07:09] Therefore, if it's "GPLv2.1+", it de facto means GPLv3+ [07:10] because it excludes GPLv2 :) [07:10] RAOF: If upstream describes as "GPL 2.1", then maybe they have a special secret license, which ought be included entire in debian/copyright, and for which nobody can give advice about GPL-3 integration. [07:10] Ah, whoops. No, LGPL. [07:11] That's a good thing. It's not quite as bad as it might have been. Still, the main difference between LGPL-2 and LGPL-2.1 is that LGPL-2.1 is GPL-3 compatible. [07:12] persia> Aren't modifications to the GPL themselves forbidden and make the code unredistributable? [07:12] LucidFox: No. They just make it a different license. It depends on who modified it. [07:14] If a software author modifies the GPL, and releases under a modified GPL, this is acceptable, but the license must be reviewed for suitability as with any new license. If these modifications go beyond certain permitted criteria, the author is asked not to call it "GPL", and cannot incorporate other GPL software. [07:14] Common cases are things like the classlib exception or the libssl exception. [07:14] Less common cases are things like linuxsampler, which is deemed undistributable due to contradictions in the license. [07:14] Additional permissions can be added to the GPL, but the GPL itself is immutable. [07:14] " Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this license document, but changing it is not allowed." ~ GPL [07:15] * persia would be curious to see case history of precedent for successful prosecution of a copyright claim for a legal document. Law is inherently open-source. [07:16] Why thank you, janderson, for touching every line of XKeybinder.cs with your "spaces-to-tabs" commit. :( [07:16] lol [07:17] persia: one would think so, but AIUI there have been US states with rulings to the effect that contracts are proprietary -- ah, the disadvantages of trusting lawyers to argue the case for what they should be allowed to do... :) [07:17] persia> Apparently, smplayer-themes didn't upload [07:18] slangasek: Really? Do you happen to have a link? I'm rather interested. [07:19] persia: no link, just anecdote from several years ago; so feel free to ignore my hearsay [07:19] slangasek: I'll not ignore, just turn to google for help. Makes me wish I still had LEXIS/NEXIS access. [07:25] Heh. "All Rights Reserved" only means anything in Nicaragua and Honduras. The rest of the world assumes that. [07:27] slangasek: Citing from the decision in FEIST PUBLICATIONS, INC. v. RURAL TELEPHONE SERVICE CO., 499 U.S. 340 (1991): "Notwithstanding a valid copyright, a subsequent compiler remains free to use the facts contained in an another's publication to aid in preparing a competing work, so long as the competing work does not feature the same selection and arrangement." [07:28] I'm fairly sure someone could successfully argue their way out of liability when confronted with using the GPL as a base for their new license, at least for any state court, and few GPL-covered works meet the $100,000 minimum liabilty for federal court. [07:29] * persia is unable to find the anecdotal case mentioned, and goes back to pushing new orig.tar.gz files for FeatureFreeze [07:35] slangasek: Do you know if there will be another run of the removed-from-debian removal script before hardy release? [07:37] Dear beagle: surrender to me your keybinding logic, so I can replace Do's use of tomboy with yours. [07:38] persia: I'm not aware that it's on any kind of checklist, but it does rather seem like a good idea [07:39] slangasek: I'm just encountering a few "Please remove: was removed from Debian" bugs in the U-U-S queue, and I'd think that using the script to autoremove (assuming no Ubuntu changes or rdepends) would be a cleaner solution than pushing these bugs on to the archive-admins. [07:40] Speaking of removals from Debian, what do you all think about bug #190684? [07:40] Launchpad bug 190684 in xmms "Remove xmms from Ubuntu" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190684 [07:40] well, the script doesn't remove very "auto"ly, but going through the whole list of candidate removals seems like a better idea than picking them off as bugs, yes [07:41] LucidFox: Given the fuss about trying to remove xmms for gutsy, I'd rather wait for the Debian removal to happen in that case. It's special. [07:41] Okay. === doko_ is now known as doko [07:42] slangasek: Shall I reject bugs like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/sql-editor/+bug/190045/ for now, telling the submitter that the archive-admins will take care of these are part of normal archive maintenance? [07:42] Launchpad bug 190045 in sql-editor "[Remove] Please remove sql-editor from Hardy, it depends on Gnome 1.x" [Undecided,New] [07:42] Can packages be removed after FF? [07:42] Hurrah! Ubotu is reporting bugs again! [07:42] It didn't? [07:42] LucidFox: Yes, but they need a better reason. [07:42] LucidFox: It had been having issues with LP being slow for the past several hours. [07:42] Ah. [07:42] persia: for now, if you think the removal is appropriate how about sending it on to ubuntu-archive anyway and I'll talk to the other guys about making sure we get a full process-removals run in before FF [07:43] slangasek: OK. Makes sense. Thanks. === greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco [07:44] AAARGH. Beagle has taken _their_ keybinding stuff from tomboy, lack of license header and all. [07:45] heh. Nothing like sharing code without a license. Maybe all the developers thought they lived in Nicaragua or Honduras? [07:46] persia: It's probably not archive-material without a XKeybinder header, is it :( [07:46] "Gentoo's (mis)handling of PR during this transitional time has resulted in a lot of negativity towards audacious and several lame attempts to find security holes in Audacious with the explicit purpose of trying to get XMMS back." <-- ....... [07:46] RAOF: I'd think not, but tomboy got in somehow... [07:46] They should have a "Don't disrupt development to prove a point" policy, like Wikipedia does. [07:46] And beagle, too :) [07:47] nothing worse than a distro that mishandles Puerto Rico [07:47] LucidFox: That's precisely the sort of reason why it would be nice to have it disappear because it didn't work (based on GTK+ 1 going away for lenny), rather than taking a position in Ubuntu. [07:47] Ack. [07:59] slangasek> Now reading that Debian mailing list discussion, well said about 6-year-old abandonware and idiots :) [08:06] Good morning! [08:07] * RAOF grumbles about licensing again. [08:07] warp10: I'll pay you the "morning" part, at least :P [08:08] RAOF: eheh :D [08:22] * persia is impressed to see 1700 bugs closed in the last week [08:27] O_O === rraphink is now known as raphink [09:17] superm1, around ? [09:20] crevette: In 90% of cases, you'll do better to ask a question rather than seeking a person. [09:20] persia, yeah okay, this is because superm1 has managed to reviewed my package [09:21] crevette: Which package? [09:21]