[00:25] <nekostar> hey UnNaturalHigh
[00:25] <nekostar> confirmed its the kernel
[00:25] <nekostar> tho new bug ;p
[00:25] <nekostar> loaded amd64 iso onto disc good burn and all.....
[00:25] <nekostar> and kernel not found upon install
[00:25] <nekostar> @_@
[00:26] <UnNaturalHigh> 2.6.24-7 is a terrible release
[00:26] <UnNaturalHigh> doesn't work on any of my five computers
[00:26] <nekostar> UnNaturalHigh lol
[00:26] <nekostar> probably something deep is borking it
[00:26] <nekostar> and itl be UUBER when it works
[00:26]  * nekostar shrugs
[00:26] <UnNaturalHigh> yep, I haven't had time to investigate it yet as my research proposal is taking up a lot of my time today
[00:26] <nekostar> think there's a difference between the kubuntu and the ubuntu text based system?
[00:27] <nekostar> aww crap booted into wrong kernel again lol
[00:28] <UnNaturalHigh> nekostar, just change your default kernel in grub
[00:28] <UnNaturalHigh> or uninstall the current kernel
[00:28] <nekostar> too lazy :P
[00:28] <nekostar> gonna make this install work
[00:28] <nekostar> so apparently i cant go 64bit so i386 here i cum
[00:28] <nekostar> first: anime
[00:29] <nekostar> Kino_no_Tabi_02.DVD(h264.aac)[KAA][08AE2EC7]   <<-- awesome motivator
[00:52] <ionstorm> is there a forum for hardy
[00:54] <hmuller> this is it
[00:54] <hmuller> sorry, this is the channel
[00:55] <hmuller> here's the hardy development forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=305
[01:50] <ethana2> Does anyone here have a PS3?
[01:50] <ethana2> I'm wondering if the PS3 ubuntu hardy spins are functional in their current state
[02:14] <DanaG> Hmm, channel seems rather quiet for now.
[02:16] <alteregol> strange wine won't work on this 32bit noteboard
[02:16] <mbrush> i have a question, but it's absolutely off topic and so stupid, I'm hesistating to ask it ....
[02:17] <alteregol> ok you came to early or what
[02:17] <rsk> mbrush:  it's normal if the left nut is bigger
[02:17] <mbrush> hahahahaha
[02:18] <mbrush> it's about Opera web browser which i'm forced to use now since firefox doesn't stay open for more than 10 seconds
[02:18] <mbrush> no answer at #opera
[02:18] <rsk> right-o
[02:18] <mbrush> i can't find the "Home Page" button ... it's so stupid
[02:18] <mbrush> and i friggen hate the "qt" look
[02:19] <rsk> home page, what would that doo?
[02:19] <mbrush> go to my homepage
[02:19] <rsk> you mean the startpage-button thingie?
[02:19] <rsk> ah.
[02:20] <rsk> are you sure there is such a thing in opera?
[02:20] <mbrush> no, I'm assuming any decent browser has a button to go "home"
[02:20] <mbrush> otherwise it seems decent enough
[02:20] <mbrush> and it stays open for more then 10 seconds
[02:20] <DanaG> Hmm, what's making Firefox crash?
[02:20] <DanaG> Try starting it in console.
[02:21] <rsk> most likely flash.
[02:21] <Dr_willis> I just hit the newtab button it goes to my homepage.
[02:21] <mbrush> prolly, the nonfree thing ... i googled it, none of the fixes did that
[02:21] <mbrush> Dr_willis, it goes to a blank page, and I don't want a new tab
[02:22] <Dr_willis> enable the navagiation bar then.  :P
[02:22] <Dr_willis> i see a home buton on it..
[02:22] <mbrush> i think it's on?  let me double check
[02:22] <Dr_willis> but its greyed.. odd.
[02:22] <Dr_willis> I see a lot of toobar type options in the menus
[02:22] <DanaG> Try flashblock, for now.
[02:23] <DanaG> It blocks flash objects by default, so the plugin won't have as many chances to crash.
[02:23] <rsk> i think it's weird
[02:23] <mbrush> Dr_willis, that nav bar would work, but I don't want another toolbar just for a button that should be in with refresh and back
[02:23] <Dr_willis> Mainbar panel -as a home button
[02:23] <rsk> that flashblock is like 1mb +
[02:23] <rsk> i would expect it to bee 10kb.
[02:23] <Dr_willis> mbrush,  whatever. :) try draggint the botton to another bar then? or ya could just use a mouse jesture to go to home.
[02:24] <mbrush> it's text not buttons
[02:24] <mbrush> i'll try anyway
[02:24] <Dr_willis> hmm i think the older opera let ya drag buttons around  not this one.. wonder what version i got
[02:24] <mbrush> Dr_willis, no drag and home link in nav bar brings me to opera home page not mine
[02:25] <mbrush> I'm running 9.25
[02:25] <Dr_willis> apparance - buttons --> browser -> drag the buttons where ya want.
[02:25] <Dr_willis> just worked for me.
[02:25] <mbrush> just downloaded from the ubuntu "partner" repo
[02:25] <Dr_willis> i put a home button on every bar.
[02:26] <Dr_willis> Got one right next to my address bar now :)
[02:26] <mbrush> AHAHAHAHAHA
[02:26] <mbrush> thank you
[02:26] <mbrush> I saw that there and I was clicking it, but it wasn't doing anything, had to drag it.
[02:27] <mbrush> so retarded
[02:28] <mbrush> I always thought firefox was alone in being such a ram hog, but now i see opera is much worse
[02:28] <Dr_willis> Opera has a lot of settings it seems..   never noticed it being that configurable befor
[02:28] <mbrush> yeah, it seems ok, but it's no firefox
[02:28] <Dr_willis> depends on your needs.
[02:29] <mbrush> it's really too bad that flash is so ubiquitous
[02:29] <Dr_willis> I got so many opera-type-extensions in firefox its scary
[02:29] <mbrush> hahaha
[02:29] <Dr_willis> i like this speed-dial extension/feature
[02:29] <mbrush> do you have a KDE theme on it?
[02:29] <mbrush> hahaha
[03:04] <hmuller> how's the amd64 / nvidia 8xxx / usplash issue looking for the final release?
[03:20] <MFen> can anyone recommend a good application for ipod nano (gen 3?) integration
[03:21] <MFen> i tried plugging mine in, and banshee said the database format was too new
[03:21] <MFen> and yes, i am using hardy
[04:06] <DanaG> Anybody else having gnome-settings-daemon crash the first time you use volume-control keys?
[04:11] <ethana2> mine work fine
[04:27] <DanaG> Odd.... even using the same .sf2 file, Timidity and my Audigy sound different.
[04:35] <DanaG> Anybody here use Timidity?
[04:48] <DanaG> Argh, going to try timidity under 2.6.22.....
[04:56] <DanaG> Okay, it's a bit better under 2.6.22 .... even with Folding running.
[04:56] <DanaG> For my uses, CFS sucks.
[05:05] <DanaG> timidity: pcm_pulse.c:196: pulse_pointer: Assertion `pcm->stream' failed.
[05:05] <DanaG> Aborted
[05:07] <DanaG> Oh, I had suid-ed it to root.
[05:57] <q_a_z_steve> Can someone help me fix my screen res? It used to be able to handle my 21" monitor, now not so much.
[05:57] <q_a_z_steve> *used to be able to handle... was under dapper, I've just installed gutsy
[05:58] <q_a_z_steve> trying to get to Alpha 4 eventually
[05:58] <q_a_z_steve> help?
[06:30] <simi> hi, the screen resolution is not saved, it always defaults to  maximum , how can i make it saved , is this a known bug?
[06:40] <ChaosParser> Anyone else have issues with external storage devices throwing nautilus into a crash loop?
[06:45] <ChaosParser> Is anyone awake?
[06:48] <ionstorm> yea
[06:48] <ionstorm> what type of external storage?
[06:49] <ionstorm> a flash drive?
[06:49] <ChaosParser> Yeah,  Lexar 2 gig firefly, to be precise.
[06:49] <ionstorm> i got the same one
[06:49] <ionstorm> lol
[06:49] <ChaosParser> I tried to file a bug report, and it says the report is malformed.
[06:49] <ionstorm> what do u do when it fux up
[06:50] <ChaosParser> It never works.
[06:50] <ChaosParser> Does yours?
[06:50] <ionstorm> let me try
[06:50] <ionstorm> if my box locks i'll be back
[06:50] <ChaosParser> kk
[06:51] <ionstorm> what os u runnin
[06:51] <ionstorm> mine works, Bus 004 Device 004: ID 05dc:a660 Lexar Media, Inc.
[06:51] <ChaosParser> Hardy alpha 4.
[06:51] <ionstorm> do a lsusb
[06:51] <ionstorm> may be a diff ver
[06:52] <ChaosParser> mine ends in :a701
[06:52] <ionstorm> hmm
[06:53] <ionstorm> ChaosParser, refile the report
[06:53] <ionstorm> let me know what issue ur having
[06:54] <ChaosParser> It won't file.  Any time that dialogue comes up it says the report is malformed.
[06:54] <ionstorm> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs
[06:55] <ChaosParser> ionstorm: Not listed.
[06:56] <ionstorm> just do it as unknown and someone will specify the bug categorie
[06:56] <ionstorm> y
[06:57] <ionstorm> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug
[07:01] <ChaosParser> I created a temp user and the crash report is working properlyl
[07:12] <Assid> anyone got vmware-server running on this?
[07:12] <ionstorm> nah, i got virtualbox running on hardy
[07:12] <ChaosParser> nope, but I can verify that virtualbox works.
[07:13] <ionstorm> works just fine
[07:13] <ChaosParser> lol
[07:13] <ionstorm> hehe
[07:13] <ionstorm> is vmware server free
[07:14] <compwiz18> ionstorm: I think so, yes
[07:15] <Assid> yeah but vmware works better with multi cores
[07:15] <ChaosParser> Meh,  I tried vmware and it was blah.
[07:15] <Assid> blah ?
[07:15] <compwiz18> virtual box is good also
[07:15] <compwiz18> as it qemu
[07:16] <Assid> right but doesnt make use of smp
[07:16] <Assid> you dont get processor affinity on the guest os
[07:18] <ionstorm> i used to run vmware, and virtualbox seems less bloated and faster than vmware
[07:18] <ionstorm> although vmware could b better now
[07:20] <Assid> when was the last time you tried vmware?
[07:20] <Assid> any particular version ?
[07:21] <Assid> i have a q6600 .. considering vmware can use 2 of those cores for the guest os.. I guess thats good right
[07:21] <ionstorm> to be honest dont know the ver, it was back 4 months ago
[07:22] <Assid> could be 1.03 odd then
[07:22] <Assid> nevertheless.. i couldnt get vmware to install on hardy
[07:23] <compwiz18> I've always found vmware to be tricky to install
[07:25] <Assid> http://assid.pastebin.com/d7668a4af
[07:27] <Assid> maybe i should use virtualbox
[07:28] <Assid> easy to install ionstorm?
[07:28] <ionstorm> hell yea
[07:29] <ionstorm> http://www.virtualbox.org/
[07:29] <Assid> dont use synaptic?
[07:32] <Assid> i gotta use the OSE edition right ?
[07:37] <ChaosParser> Assid: Don't use synaptic.
[07:38] <ChaosParser> synaptic has the wrong version in the repos or something
[07:38] <Assid> k.. already downoloading the .run file
[07:38] <ChaosParser> oh no,
[07:38] <ChaosParser> you can use the .deb
[07:39] <ChaosParser> as long as its from that site.
[07:39] <ChaosParser> and not sudo apt-get install
[07:40] <Assid> i didnt see hardy mentioned there.. hence the run file
[07:41] <ChaosParser> the one for gutsy works fine
[07:42] <Assid> k
[07:42] <ChaosParser> annnd hardy is stuck in a nautilus crash loop when accessing any partition/drive other than the one its installed on.
[07:42] <qzio> do i unsderstand it correctly that you have to agree to some eula for personal use if you're to download the binaries?
[07:42] <ChaosParser> Lovely.
[07:42] <Assid> ChaosParser: err.. doesnt happen to me
[07:42] <Assid> works fine here
[07:43] <Assid> what i dont like is that it automounts and puts those icons on my desktop
[07:43] <ChaosParser> its not a really big deal.
[07:43] <Assid> for once in my life i want to have a clean desktop
[07:43] <ChaosParser> home is on its own partition,
[07:43] <ChaosParser> so I can reinstall it with no issues.
[07:43] <Assid> oh.. that i screwed up on.. i put everything with /
[07:43] <Assid> hehe
[07:43] <Assid> im gonna go through a pita copying it back and forth
[07:45] <simi> hi, the screen resolution is not saved, it always defaults to  maximum , how can i make it saved , is this a known bug?
[07:50] <Assid> i had something similar.. my "shares" didnt do anything
[07:50] <Assid> now atleast it seems to be saving
[07:58] <qzio> just a quick one - am i the only one experiance really slow 2D (firefox scrolling etc) when visual effects is on?
[07:59] <Assid> err how do i know if VT is available for my processor
[07:59] <Assid> so virtualbox can use it
[07:59] <qzio> Assid: what's your processor?
[07:59] <Assid> core2quad Q6600
[08:00] <Assid> it should be right?
[08:00] <qzio> that's x86-ish so i guess it should be fine..
[08:00] <Assid> fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe nx lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts pni monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr lahf_lm
[08:00] <Assid> dont see vt there tho
[08:03] <DanaG> 	vmx and svm are 'vt'.
[08:03] <Assid> oh
[08:04] <Assid> okay quick question.. if i enable dynamic expanding image for the drive and if i set the image size to 8gb will it use 8gb directly?
[08:04] <Assid> or can i grow it only till 8gb and not more
[08:06] <Assid> oh big problem.. i just realized.. my stupid rom doesnt read cd's
[08:06] <Assid> :(
[08:15] <grumpymole> qzio: do you have intel graphics?
[08:19] <tapas> 2d accelleration is vewry slow here on this athlon 64 system
[08:19] <tapas> with 64 bit ubuntu
[08:20] <TheInfinity> tapas: nvidia graphics?
[08:20] <tapas> yep
[08:20] <tapas> 3d is great though
[08:20] <tapas> just normal desktop ops are dog slow sometimes
[08:21] <tapas> it's like in the 486 days where you could see the browser window updte from top to botom :)
[08:21] <qzio> grumpymole: yupp!
[08:22] <tapas> TheInfinity: you have any clues?
[08:22] <qzio> grumpymole: are there any known issues? i didn't have this problem in feisty/gutsy
[08:22] <DanaG> New scheduler sucks.
[08:22] <DanaG> At least, that's one factor for me.
[08:22] <cwillu> tapas, compiz on?
[08:22] <cwillu> DanaG, lol
[08:22] <DanaG> Oh wait, I seem to remember hearing that the 8-series cards remove 2D acceleration.
[08:22] <cwillu> how so?
[08:22] <TheInfinity> tapas: i had this with missing drivers / wrong installed drivers on win and linux some time ago
[08:22] <tapas> cwillu: nope
[08:22] <DanaG> The new scheduler doesn't respect 'nice' as expected.
[08:22] <cwillu> ?
[08:23] <cwillu> in that nice actually does something?
[08:23] <tapas> this is a clean install
[08:23] <DanaG> A Nice +19, idleprio task as root takes 50% of all cycles.
[08:23] <cwillu> what's the problem you're running into
[08:23] <cwillu> DanaG, it's supposed to
[08:23] <Assid> tapas: are ytou uising the restricted drivers?
[08:23] <tapas> Assid: yep
[08:23] <DanaG> What it's supposed to do is to take only SPARE cycle.s
[08:23] <DanaG> That's what "idleprio" means.
[08:23] <TheInfinity> was a strange issue, especially because no nvidia drivers worked
[08:23] <cwillu> what the new scheduler does is make sure that if anything at higher priority wants to use it, the 50% cpu task will get interrupted really really quickely
[08:23] <aantipop> latest alsa updates broke sound on openarena
[08:23] <cwillu> DanaG, not exactly, no
[08:23] <DanaG> The thing is, it was slowing down Xorg --- a lot.
[08:23] <cwillu> ?
[08:24] <cwillu> DanaG, don't renice x if you did previously
[08:24] <DanaG> I'd press ONE key, and it'd take a half of a second for the character to show up.
[08:24] <DanaG> That's not usable.
[08:24] <tapas> i rather suspect it has something to do with the new xorg
[08:24] <tapas> the config file is so damn small, it just feels wrong
[08:24] <DanaG> I usually run two instances of folding@home, each set to +19 and idleprio, and each given one CPU core.
[08:25] <tapas> after years of hacking huge and complex XF86Config and xorg.conf hacking ;)
[08:25] <cwillu> DanaG, what does top say the wa% is?
[08:25] <tapas> s/hacking//
[08:25] <qzio> tapas: im with you on that one :)
[08:25] <DanaG> I'm in the old kernel right now, actually.
[08:25] <tapas> maybe i need to explicitly enable 2d acceleration
[08:26] <DanaG> Oh, and even once I put folding@home to a new user with cpu_share=2 (1 hard-locks the system, and I think 0 is worse), it still slows stuff down.
[08:26] <DanaG> It's not as drastic, though -- it still takes compiz from 60FPS to 45.
[08:26] <tapas> this is a geforce 7500gt
[08:26] <tapas> erm 7600
[08:26] <cwillu> seperate user wouldn't affect anything unless you set up process groups as well
[08:26] <DanaG> Oh, and I get audio dropouts in ALSA when I close my laptop lid.  I don't get that with the old kernel.
[08:27] <tapas> (II) NVIDIA(0): Using the NVIDIA 2D acceleration architecture
[08:27] <tapas> but it doesn't sem so
[08:27] <cwillu> DanaG, I'm sorry, I think I got confused.  You don't actually want to _fix_ these problems, do you :p
[08:27] <DanaG> I do, actually.
[08:27] <DanaG> I think you were joking, but I missed the joke.
[08:28] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/178807
[08:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 178807 in linux "Severe sluggishness under 'nice' load in 2.6.24 kernels (dup-of: 177713)" [Medium,Invalid]
[08:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177713 in boinc "CFS in 2.6.24 kernel needs cpu_share adjustment for "niced" processes" [Medium,Fix released]
[08:28] <DanaG> Goes to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/178807
[08:28] <DanaG> goes to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/188226
[08:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188226 in linux "Kernel should use CONFIG_FAIR_CGROUP_SCHED" [Wishlist,Triaged]
[08:28] <cwillu> DanaG, can you boot into that kernel?
[08:29] <DanaG> Sure.
[08:30] <tapas> so if xorg says it uses the 2d render accel
[08:30] <tapas> then i guess the nvidia driver is to blame?
[08:31] <Assid> could be.. whats the refresh rates on the monitor
[08:31] <tapas> oh and yeah.. amarok has gotten into a habit of crashing
[08:32] <Assid> amarok + gnome/ubuntu isnt a hot deal
[08:32] <tapas> oh well i use kde
[08:32] <tapas> :)
[08:32] <tapas> and also i compiled the alsa jack pcm plugin myself
[08:33] <tapas> it seems the xine engne makes some assumptios about the pcm device that don't  hold
[08:33] <tapas> other apps work flawlessly with it
[08:34] <cwillu> DanaG, okay;  you said cat /dev/zero >/dev/null didn't cause any issues, right?
[08:34] <DanaG> Let me stop folding and try it again.
[08:34] <cwillu> k
[08:34] <DanaG> As root?
[08:34] <cwillu> DanaG, can you pastebin a 'ps lax' as well?  (make sure you check the text for passwords and such before you post it)
[08:36] <cwillu> DanaG, can you pastebin a 'ps lax' as well?  (make sure you check the text for passwords and such before you post it)
[08:36] <cwillu> bah
[08:36] <DanaG> middle button?
[08:36] <cwillu> wrong window for up+enter :p
[08:36] <DanaG> aah.
[08:37] <DanaG> !pastebin
[08:37] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[08:37] <DanaG> I'm running one instance of 'schedtool -D -n +19 -e cat /dev/zero > /dev/null' as root.
[08:38] <DanaG> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/55691/
[08:38] <cwillu> thx
[08:38] <DanaG> No sluggishness with just one of that.
[08:38] <cwillu> that's idleprio, 19
[08:38] <cwillu> k
[08:39] <cwillu> what about just plain nice -n 19 cat /dev/zero > /dev/null?
[08:39] <cwillu> under root
[08:39] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and two of the schedtool'd ones does bring down my compiz frame rate.
[08:41] <DanaG> Do you want me to do two of that, or one or two of just 'nice'?
[08:41] <cwillu> just one of nice, check if it still causes noticable slowdown
[08:42] <DanaG> Trying Timidity with two of the schedtool'd ones actually gives audio dropouts.  I'll try again without pulseaudio.
[08:42] <cwillu> bAH
[08:42] <cwillu> idleprio doesn't use a nice level
[08:43] <DanaG> That's odd.
[08:43] <DanaG> No wonder my schedtool'd things aren't showing up as 'nice' in the Gnome system monitor applet.
[08:43] <cwillu> heh
[08:44] <cwillu> okay, just normal nice -19, what do you get?
[08:44] <DanaG> Oddly, removing pulseaudio from the playback path removes the dropouts.
[08:44] <cwillu> I've noticed that as well
[08:44] <DanaG> But my Compiz FPS with timidity and the two schedtool'd ones is roughly 25.
[08:45] <DanaG> It doesn't seem significantly different with just 'nice'.
[08:45] <cwillu> i.e., still laggy?
[08:45] <DanaG> 30 FPS, and no dropouts.
[08:45] <DanaG> At least I'm not getting severe key lag, though.
[08:45] <cwillu> okay
[08:46] <DanaG> I think folding is more intensive than just catting /dev/zero.
[08:47] <cwillu> only way it should be is if it's playing with nice levels and scheduling classes on its own, or if io is coming into it (which is something else to check actually)
[08:47] <grumpymole> qzio: yeah, i have 945 integrated graphics and found a similar problem
[08:48] <cwillu> how many nice's can you start up before you start getting issues?  (you're on a dual core you said?)
[08:48] <Assid> hrmm i got  a decent nvidia card... works brilliantly
[08:48] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and even though I have it set to 'nice', and I have cpufreq set to ignore 'nice'd tasks, it's speeding up my CPU.
[08:48] <grumpymole> qzio: reading around, it does seem as if there is a problem with the current intel driver and EXA (i think)
[08:48] <grumpymole> if you change it to XAA, then performance improves
[08:48] <Assid> grumpymole: any suggestions for the nvidia-glx-new ?
[08:48] <DanaG> And another oddity is that my compiz FPS increases for a moment when timidity first starts.
[08:49] <cwillu> you're running those nice's under root?
[08:49] <grumpymole> sorry, only been looking at intel
[08:49] <DanaG> Yes, the nice is root.
[08:50] <Assid> glxgears with compiz on does 10,000 odd fps
[08:50] <Assid> is that decent?
[08:50] <grumpymole> qzio: see this thread as an example and some options: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=672314
[08:50] <lz7> how you check fps and compiz/linux games?
[08:50] <DanaG> glxgears is not a benchmark.
[08:50] <DanaG> Try one of the opengl screensavers instead.
[08:50] <cwillu> just for comparison, I'm running 11 cat's as root, there's a slight lagginess switching between windows, everything else seems perfectly responsive (mouse pointer, typing, etc);  you seeing about the same?
[08:51] <Assid> DanaG: that doesnt show fps rates
[08:52] <DanaG> Another oddity for me is that I get my unminimize animation almost being skipped due to compiz taking too long to start.
[08:52] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and many screensavers have a '-fps' parameter.
[08:52] <Assid> i do find a tiny bit of lag.. but thats ever since the new compiz came out i think. not sure
[08:52] <DanaG> Audio stuff may be a better test than compiz.
[08:52] <DanaG> Adding more of 'cat' as root nice doesn't seem to make it any slower than with just two.
[08:53] <cwillu> okay
[08:53] <cwillu> start up folding, and run top
[08:53] <cwillu> I'm curious what the %wait shows
[08:53] <cwillu> i.e., if its any at all, you may benefit from ionice'ing it
[08:53] <DanaG> Right now I have folding done idleprio; since that ignores nice, should I make it just run nice instead?
[08:54] <DanaG> And should it run as root or as the cpushare=2 user, 'folding' ?
[08:54] <cwillu> well, the plodding but scientific way would be to make sure it still does what we expect under idleprio, and then compare that to nice -n 19'ing it
[08:54] <Assid> i should probably start running folding@home
[08:54] <cwillu> it'd make it easier to do a compare between the two
[08:54] <DanaG> As root, then?
[08:54] <cwillu> yep
[08:55] <DanaG> I have manually assigned each of the two instances an affinity of one CPU core each (I have a Yonah 1.83GHz).
[08:56] <Assid> why cant we set affinity through system-monitor like how windows lets you do
[08:56] <Assid> i wish they'd add that
[08:57] <DanaG> Okay, two started, with just idleprio.  Compiz has slowed, but I'm not getting audio dropouts or key lag.
[08:57] <cwillu> DanaG, sorry to keep repeating questions;  64bit or 32bit?
[08:57] <DanaG> I think the key lag was with the .24-3 kernel.  Oh yeah, and Yonah is 32-bit only.
[08:57] <cwillu> okay
[08:57] <Assid> i wish there are some ethernet /ram etc monitoring applets for the docks :(
[08:58] <DanaG> (You know you're nerdy when you call things by code names, not marketing names.)
[08:58] <cwillu> :p
[08:58] <cwillu> DanaG, can you check the wait% for me in top?
[08:58] <Assid> nerd!!!!!
[08:58] <Assid> :P
[08:59] <DanaG> Gaack, pidgin died.
[08:59] <cwillu> heh
[08:59] <cwillu> that's what pidgin's do best
[08:59] <Assid> someone shot it down
[09:00] <cwillu> wait% DanaG? :p
[09:00] <DanaG> Where is that?
[09:00] <cwillu> run top, it's in the 3rd line (000%wa)
[09:00] <cwillu> %sy would be interesting too if it's not 0
[09:01] <DanaG> Cpu(s): 16.8%us,  0.3%sy, 81.8%ni,  0.0%id,  0.0%wa,  0.7%hi,  0.3%si,  0.0%st
[09:01] <cwillu> what framerate are you getting?
[09:01] <DanaG> 18 FPS right now.  (I'm also running timidity, for audio reference.)
[09:01] <cwillu> okay, so about half fps?
[09:02] <DanaG> Best is 60, actually.
[09:02] <Assid> 6702 root      20   0  887m  63m  12m S    5  3.1   5:26.24 Xorg
[09:02] <Assid> err.. is it me.. or does 887mb look bad
[09:02] <Assid> 887virt
[09:02] <DanaG> Stopping timidity (but manually setting CPU back to higher speed) keeps it at 21 or so.
[09:03] <lz7> ok i checked all screensavers and from what i see they not much different from glxgears in term of graphics, one which look like most heavy, lattice, not support "-fps" option, any other ideas to test 3d? :/
[09:03] <cwillu> that's two running, right?  (sucks that I don't have a dual core, although I'm seeing a bit of latency switching windows;  nothing noticible within apps though)
[09:03] <DanaG> Try the sierpinski3D.
[09:03] <DanaG> Two folding? Yes.
[09:04] <DanaG> (Sierpinski with really high depth is ridiculously high-poly.)
[09:04] <cwillu> have you tried playing around with any of the sched variables in /proc/sys/kernel?
[09:05] <DanaG> Cpu(s):  2.3%us,  0.2%sy, 97.0%ni,  0.0%id,  0.0%wa,  0.3%hi,  0.2%si,  0.0%st
[09:05] <cwillu> sounds about right
[09:06] <lz7> DanaG: with sierpinski3D i get cpu load less than 10%, but with lattice its almost 100%...
[09:06] <lz7> maybe i should use some options?
[09:06] <Assid> hrmm
[09:06] <Assid> mine was decent too
[09:06] <Assid> i found a slight lag
[09:07] <DanaG> I haven't seen those variables in /proc/sys/kernel, actually.
[09:07] <Assid> not noticable
[09:08] <cwillu> one thought, X server runs as root, wonder if there's some interaction there;  did you say you had tried it as a third user (not yourself, not root)?
[09:08] <DanaG> Yeah.
[09:08] <DanaG> I think the severe-key-lag thing was fixed in an update of the scheduler somewhere along the line, but it still impacts FPS, and still causes dropouts when using PulseAudio.
[09:09] <DanaG> I still find it odd that applying nice and idleprio seems to break one or the other.  It should just ignore whichever doesn't apply, not break it, at the very least.
[09:10] <cwillu> sorry, break?
[09:11] <DanaG> Oh wait, I got confused -- with my folding, I had not taken out the 'nice' part.
[09:11] <DanaG> So that with folding was idleprio and nice together.
[09:11] <lz7> DanaG: and, it seems sierpinski fps is capped at 50 fps... :/
[09:11] <cwillu> which should be the same as just idleprio
[09:11] <Assid> how doy ou check the fps in sierpinsky ?
[09:11] <Assid> how do you check it for any screensaver
[09:12] <DanaG> Gaack, died again.
[09:12] <Assid> lz7: how do you check the fps of a screensaver?
[09:12] <cwillu> DanaG, okay, and with just nice -n 19?
[09:13] <DanaG> Okay, with just idleprio, it speeds up my CPU, and is subjectively the same as with nice+idleprio.
[09:13] <DanaG> I'll try just nice now.
[09:13] <lz7> Assid: i don't know, ask DanaG
[09:13] <cwillu> DanaG, I want to compare those two, and schedtool -B, and then try playing with the latency vars
[09:13] <cwillu> DanaG, ya, idleprio should be identical to nice + idleprio
[09:13] <lz7> he is the one specialist of screensavers benchmarks
[09:14] <DanaG> argh.
[09:14]  * cwillu points DanaG at xchat
[09:14]  * cwillu gestures wildly towards xchat
[09:14] <DanaG> died AGAIN!
[09:15] <DanaG> I think it's because I killed PulseAudio, and then somebody said my name (which makes it try to play a sound).
[09:15] <DanaG> The Fix: start pulseaudio.
[09:15] <cwillu> lol
[09:15] <cwillu> figures, alsa/esd was just starting to be stable for me :p
[09:16] <DanaG> Hmm, just 'nice' seems about the same, though a bit more laggy when typing quickly.
[09:17] <cwillu> okay, what about batch?
[09:17] <DanaG> And oddly, there's not a freeze when unminimizing; instead, it's just slow.
[09:17] <cwillu> :/
[09:17] <DanaG> "-B" With or without nice?
[09:17] <cwillu> without
[09:17] <cwillu> -B implies nice I think
[09:17] <DanaG> And it's still as root.
[09:17] <cwillu> yep
[09:19] <DanaG> Just -b is again speeding up CPU, but it's not causing significant key lag.
[09:19] <Jaymac> haven't upgraded to hardy yet, just wondering if network-manager 0.7 is being included? (I'm looking forward to some static-ip goodness :))
[09:19] <DanaG> Oh wait, I just noticed something odd: when folding first starts under -B, it's not 'nice', but then after it drops down and then pops up again, the load is now nice.
[09:20] <DanaG> The client itself must be doing something to its own processes.
[09:20] <cwillu> could well be
[09:21] <DanaG> In htop, the two cores are showing up as nice +19.
[09:21] <cwillu> HA
[09:21] <cwillu> yep
[09:21] <cwillu> it's throwing away the class
[09:21] <cwillu> I started it as batch, and it's running as sched_normal now
[09:22] <DanaG> How can you tell what it's running as?
[09:22] <cwillu> schedtool <pid>
[09:22] <cwillu> okay
[09:23] <cwillu> it spawns off new processes, and the new processes aren't taking the scheduling class with them, even though that's normaly inherited
[09:23] <cwillu> one sec
[09:24] <DanaG> Odd, I see 4 things for pidof fahcore78 (that's one client; the other is 81.)
[09:24] <DanaG> schedtool `pidof FahCore_78.exe`                     PID 15269: PRIO   0, POLICY N: SCHED_NORMAL  , NICE  19, AFFINITY 0x1                           PID 15268: PRIO   0, POLICY N: SCHED_NORMAL  , NICE  19, AFFINITY 0x1                               PID 15267: PRIO   0, POLICY B: SCHED_BATCH   , NICE  19, AFFINITY 0x1                                           PID 15266: PRIO   0, POLICY B: SCHED_BATCH   , NICE  19, AFFINITY 0x1
[09:24] <cwillu> DanaG, question:
[09:24] <cwillu> you're runnign stock 2.6.24 right?
[09:24] <DanaG> Packaged -Generic, yes.
[09:24] <DanaG> nvidia binary driver, too.
[09:24] <cwillu> bah nvm, got my self turned around
[09:25] <DanaG> I wonder why one client is showing four processes, and each is showing a different class.
[09:25] <cwillu> each core will be running in a seperate process
[09:26] <cwillu> okay
[09:26] <DanaG> The affinity does seem to be inherited.
[09:27] <cwillu> so, what happens if you schedtool -D <pid>, where pid is the one showing up in top (for each, that is)
[09:27] <Ayabara_> anyone running hardy on a dell xps1530? I'm getting that laptop today, and have to decide if I should install gutsy or hardy :-)
[09:28] <cwillu> Ayabara_, mailing list may be a better bet;  far more likely to run into somebody with the same laptop
[09:28] <DanaG> Doing it for both 78 and 80 (the two clients) doesn't seem to significantly change behavior.
[09:28] <DanaG> And even though PulseAudio is supposed to be realtime priority since I'm in pulse-rt group, I get dropouts.
[09:28] <cwillu> what about -B?
[09:29] <cwillu> re: pulse, you can still get priority inversions
[09:29] <cwillu> if the app feeding pulse drops out, pulse can't do anything to fix it
[09:29] <DanaG> aah.
[09:29] <DanaG> And timidity is especially vulnerable: it freezes if it drops out for too long.
[09:30] <Ayabara_> cwillu: got it.
[09:30] <cwillu> DanaG, okay, what changes if you run it from your own account?
[09:31] <DanaG> The Folding?  I'll give it a try.
[09:31] <DanaG> And it's still -B on the clients.
[09:32] <cwillu> ya, it'll be interesting to see what it'll do with the classes when not running under a privileged account
[09:34] <DanaG> OOpsie, I don't own the 'folding' user's home.
[09:34] <cwillu> heh
[09:35] <Ayabara_> is hardy fairly stable atm? I accept the occasional crash and like living on the edge :-)
[09:35] <cwillu> I've been using it for a few months, only had about 3 times when I was stuck spending quality time with vt1 :p
[09:36] <DanaG> That reminds me: I can't get PulseAudio to play that file at native res.  It insists on resampling.
[09:37] <DanaG> Using wmhdplop, I'm showing it bouncing between 1.9 and 2.2 megabytes per second.
[09:37] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and folding set to batch, on my name, isn't causing dropouts now.
[09:37] <DanaG> My FPS is now at 45.
[09:37] <cwillu> what about on idleprio?
[09:38] <cwillu> (and you checked the pids with schedtool after it started?)
[09:38] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I didn't remember to '-B' them when on my user.
[09:39] <cwillu> so that's purely niced then?
[09:39] <DanaG> I guess so, then.
[09:40] <DanaG> I'm now running them idleprio as myself, and it seems to have been inherited.
[09:40] <cwillu> okay
[09:40] <DanaG> Compiz is now around 40 fps with idleprio, and compiz unminimize (lamp) still jumps.
[09:41] <DanaG> Switching them all to -B with schedtool gives no change in behavior.
[09:42] <DanaG> I'm also still wondering why each 'core' of folding@home is showing four PIDs.
[09:43] <cwillu> is it being smart and thinking you want two pids per cpu? (i.e., it already was going to run 2, and you told it to double that?)
[09:43] <DanaG> I don't think the 32-bit one is SMP-capable.
[09:44] <DanaG> Hmm, running folding idleprio as a separate user puts my FPS back to around 35, and there's a slight key lag again; this is without cpu_share adjustment.
[09:46] <Ayabara_> wg\here cab
[09:46] <Ayabara_> ehh
[09:46] <Ayabara_> where can I find dvd releases of hardy alpha 4?
[09:47] <Ayabara_> was what I meant to say
[09:47] <Assid> DanaG: you use folding@home?
[09:47] <DanaG> yeah.
[09:49] <Assid> DanaG:  im thinking of doing that. but then i gotta make sure it runs on super low priority
[09:50] <DanaG> ANother interesting thing:   http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9779
[09:50] <ubotu> bugzilla.kernel.org bug 9779 in Scheduler "Setting cpu_share to 1 freezes system" [High,Closed: code_fix]
[09:53] <Ayabara_> anyone? are there being made dvd images for the hardy alphas?
[09:53] <DanaG> Hmm, using idleprio and setting the user share to 2 gives me 45 FPS.
[09:53] <DanaG> Ayabara_: it wouldn't be worth the time or the server space, most likely.
[09:54] <Ayabara_> DanaG: ok. I so seldom have CDs anymore :-/
[09:55] <tumbleweed__> Ayabara_ : you can burn cd images to dvds
[09:56] <Ayabara_> tumbleweed__: _that_ I did not know :-D
[09:56] <DanaG> OOOOOOooooooooooh, I just had some interesting idea about Intel AMT:  it finally gives a way to boot from ISO images (over the network).  How cool is that?
[09:56] <tumbleweed__> well now you do
[09:56] <tumbleweed__> ;/
[09:56] <tumbleweed__> DanaG : there were already ways to do that
[09:57] <DanaG> I couldn't find any.
[09:57] <Ayabara_> tumbleweed__: :-)
[09:57] <tumbleweed__> booting from nic has been an option on many motherboards for ages
[09:57] <DanaG> What other ways were there?
[09:57] <tumbleweed__> not off isos, mind you
[09:57] <DanaG> From an ISO, though?
[09:57] <tumbleweed__> but it's been there
[09:57] <DanaG> aah.
[09:57] <DanaG> This actually redirects the IDE port itself, I think.
[09:57] <tumbleweed__> neat
[10:03] <DanaG> Anyway, it's 2:03 AM here.  I'm going to go to bed.
[10:04] <tumbleweed__> it's 6:04 here
[10:04] <tumbleweed__> I win
[10:07] <Ernst> will the new kernel 2.6.24 make it into Hardy?
[10:07] <DanaG> uname -a
[10:07] <DanaG> Linux GLaDOS 2.6.24-7-generic #1 SMP Thu Feb 7 01:29:58 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
[10:14] <tumbleweed__> ;/
[10:15] <ethana2> i just woke up
[10:15] <ethana2> 1:15 am
[10:16] <ethana2> the next version of gnome..  does it come with support for the global menu thing?
[10:17] <tumbleweed__> global menu?
[10:18] <ethana2> like macs use
[10:18] <ethana2> but we can do it better ;)  like always
[10:18] <tumbleweed__> I still don't understand
[10:18] <ethana2> menu bar panel applet
[10:18] <tumbleweed__> you mean one menu instead of 3?
[10:18] <ethana2> windows wouldn't have menu bars
[10:18] <tumbleweed__> oh
[10:19] <tumbleweed__> it hasn't made it into hardy yet, no
[10:19] <ethana2> i've heard kde can do that, but i've never seen it
[10:19]  * tumbleweed__ shrugs
[10:19] <tumbleweed__> I like menu bars just fine
[10:19] <cwillu> Presumably you don't mean Main Menu?
[10:20] <ethana2> yeah, the mac main menu thing
[10:20] <ethana2> with an app open
[10:20] <ethana2> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=58461
[10:21] <tumbleweed__> oh
[10:21] <tumbleweed__> I see
[10:21] <tumbleweed__> no, I don't think it'll be in it
[10:21] <ethana2> i'm thinking of installing kde 3.5.x to see if i can do it
[10:21] <ethana2> yeah, they said it may wait until gnome 3...
[10:21] <tumbleweed__> it's doesn't really present any advantage, just a usability issue
[10:22] <ethana2> less ugliness and wasted screen space
[10:22] <ethana2> better adherence to Fitt's law
[10:22] <ethana2> or whatever that thing is ;)
[10:23] <tumbleweed__> yeah, gnome 3 definitely won't make it into hardy
[10:23] <ethana2> lol
[10:23] <ethana2> of course not.
[10:23] <tumbleweed__> maybe for the next release
[10:23] <ethana2> now to figure out how to do that in kde...
[10:23] <tumbleweed__> I suppose it could be hacked up
[10:23] <tumbleweed__> doesn't seem to be a huge demand for it, though
[10:29] <qzio> i would use it...
[10:31] <ethana2> same
[10:31] <ethana2> i'd like to have three panels in one
[10:31] <ethana2> and the ubuntu logo at the far left would switch between them
[10:31] <ethana2> menu bar, gnome menu/gimmie, window list, perhaps
[10:32] <ethana2> it would rotate as they scrolled in and out of the panel
[10:33] <qzio> that would be neat
[10:34] <ethana2> perhaps i should put that on ideapool...
[10:40] <ccooke> it'd make it harder to click the menu button, though
[10:41] <ccooke> (one of the best practices for ease-of-use is to have common buttons at the edges and corners of the screen, so the mouse will stop on them - it means you don't have to aim at the target so much as twitch vaguely in the right direction ;-)
[11:04] <Assid> hrmm theres a kfolding.. isnt there a gfolding?
[11:14] <lz7> small problem from 7.10, still not fixed: sometimes then i run program from nautilus by mouse double-click, nautilus tries to run 2 copies of program, i.e. when i quit from game i can see dialog "run display cancel".
[11:19] <Assid> err.. anyone here have a core2duo or so ..and running boinc/folding@home
[11:19] <Assid> Tuesday 12 February 2008 04:46:55 PM IST||Benchmark results:
[11:19] <Assid> Tuesday 12 February 2008 04:46:55 PM IST||   Number of CPUs: 4
[11:19] <Assid> Tuesday 12 February 2008 04:46:55 PM IST||   2665 floating point MIPS (Whetstone) per CPU
[11:19] <Assid> Tuesday 12 February 2008 04:46:55 PM IST||   7779 integer MIPS (Dhrystone) per CPU
[11:19] <Assid> is this bad?
[11:41] <simi> why are some packages missing? like opera, vmware-server
[11:42] <simi> can i get them? opera i belive i can take it from theyr web page but vmware ? i can't find a .deb
[12:08] <ccooke> simi: those are commercial software packages which are not part of a standard Ubuntu install. They are provided via the third-party apt repositories, which should not be expected to work until much closer to Hardy's release.
[12:09] <ccooke> (and in some cases, even after release)
[12:25] <ethana2> is widget factory going to find its way into the repos?
[12:27] <ethana2> ohh, that's not a theme editor....
[12:28] <Pici> It is in the repos.
[12:30] <ethana2> not seeing it
[12:31] <ethana2> Pici: what package name?
[12:31] <Pici> ethana2: let me check...
[12:31] <jussi01> !find widget_factory
[12:31] <ubotu> Package/file widget_factory does not exist in hardy
[12:31] <Pici> !info thewidgetfactory
[12:31] <ubotu> thewidgetfactory (source: thewidgetfactory): a showcase for GTK+ widgets. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.2.1-2 (hardy), package size 16 kB, installed size 88 kB
[12:31] <jussi01> there it is :)
[12:32] <Pici> ethana2: the application name once its installed is just twf
[12:32] <ethana2> ahhh  /the/ widget factory
[12:32] <ethana2> thanks
[12:33] <[miles]> afternoon
[12:35] <[miles]> guys, wth is hardy going with tranmission instead of deluge
[12:35] <[miles]> :-\
[12:35] <Dr_Willis> They must of liked it better.
[12:35] <[miles]> thats scary
[12:35] <[miles]> :)
[12:37] <Dr_Willis> I cant say that ive tried either one.. this is linux. Install what you like
[12:37] <[miles]> yeah
[12:38] <[miles]> but for quality and presentaion, I'd put Deluge well above Transmission
[12:38] <Dr_Willis> and i repeate... I cant say that ive tried either one.. this is linux. Install what you like
[12:38] <Dr_Willis> :)
[12:38] <[miles]> ;)
[12:39] <[miles]> ya ya I hear you dude I hear you
[12:39] <[miles]> :)
[12:39] <Dr_Willis> I imagine theres a discussion/flamewar on the forums.. :) there is for about everything else.
[12:39] <[miles]> aye
[12:39] <Dr_Willis> wine utorrent.exe
[12:39] <Dr_Willis> :P
[12:39] <[miles]> JAJA
[12:39] <[miles]> funny
[12:39] <ethana2> oohh.. if i ever want a klingon desktop, crux is my theme ;)
[12:40] <[miles]> I won't even say 'why-o-why don't they use 'http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Aurora+Gtk+Engine?content=56438' as the default gtk engine
[12:40] <[miles]> ;)
[12:43] <ethana2> ooh, nice
[12:43] <ethana2> the first theme engine that lets me change the whole theme using three key colors on the fly get my allegiance
[12:44] <[miles]> ?
[12:45] <ethana2> like, say i like orange and tan one day
[12:45] <ethana2> and then it starts looking ugly to me real quick
[12:45] <ethana2> so i just change the orange to purple and the tan to black
[12:45] <ethana2> and the theme just regenerates itself
[12:46] <ethana2> uggh.. i hate to bring microsoft into this
[12:46] <ethana2> but you know windows media player and live messenger?
[12:46] <ethana2> they work like that, and it's very nifty
[12:46] <ethana2> just pick your color, and you're good to go
[13:13] <Dr_Willis> and they are still ugly. :)
[13:16] <ethana2> oh wow...
[13:16] <ethana2> i can drag theme file links right from art.gnome.org into the theme manager
[13:16] <ethana2> they install and all by themselves
[13:16] <ethana2> i randomly find that amazing
[13:17] <simi> ccooke: if i realy want a package from gutsy is a way i can get it? on my own risk, it may be safer then compile from source or instaling in other way
[13:22] <Dr_Willis> simi,  i imagine a lot depends on the package and its dependencies.
[13:27] <simi> Dr_Willis: just that i hate not having those programs, i upgraded because i needed mono 1.2.6 and i got it now but i do not have other applications and i do not have a solution how to make this computer mine, to have all i need, probabily i must learn more advanced things and make installs from other places then.deb packages,
[13:27] <Dr_Willis> I know diddley-doo about mono. :) so good luck there.
[13:28]  * Dr_Willis wonders who decided to name a program after a common 'slang' for a Disease. :)
[13:28] <simi> i was thinking to try other distributuion but Ubuntu is the best (found it on other web sites)
[13:29] <Dr_Willis> if you are doing real work. You may want to avoid using this pre-beta ubuntu stuff for now. :)   of course ya could run an older ubuntu in virtualbox (which i cant get to isntall under hardy either) or vmware.. (not tried to intall that on hardy yet)
[13:30] <simi> Dr_Willis:vmare is not packaget yet
[13:31] <Dr_Willis> simi,  i noticed. and virtualbox gives me a error when i try to isntall it. heh.
[13:31] <Dr_Willis> Oh well.. ill try them againin a few days :) no biggie.
[13:31] <Dr_Willis> Night all.
[13:45] <taggie> anybody having issues with HDA/ALSA/pulse/jack/whatever audio system is in use today? I'm only getting sound from my left channel. been that way for a few days.
[13:47] <muszek> I'd start debugging by checking if there any foreign objects in your right ear ;)
[13:48] <taggie> heh :)
[13:49] <taggie> been through most of the normal wringers, but i have no idea what the current state of the audio subsystems are, so i thought i'd ask.
[13:49] <muszek> I can't help you  mate, I'm not even running Hardy yet
[13:50] <taggie> oh well, if i wait around long enough somebody may wake up.
[13:50] <rsk> works fine here on emu10k2
[13:50] <rsk> but havent reeboted for a while
[13:50] <rsk> and there was an alsa update
[13:50] <rsk> so... dunno :F
[13:50] <nanonyme> considering what the topic says, i don't think i'll upgrade to Hardy just yet either ^^
[13:50] <rsk> actually 2.
[13:50] <taggie> rsk; i'm using intel HDA, AD198x
[13:51] <taggie> and i just took the alsa update this morning, and it didn't fix
[13:51] <rsk> i'd ask in #alsa'
[13:51] <taggie> weird, in alsamixer, one channel is muted, one is on, when i choose mute, it toggles both.
[13:52] <taggie> yeah #alsa it is.
[13:52] <Pici> taggie: use < or > to mute each channel independently.
[13:52] <Pici> taggie: Oddly enough, you're the second person who has asked that question a few days.
[13:53] <taggie> yep < > did it.
[13:53] <taggie> thanks guys
[13:53] <taggie> Pici: i'm guessing i'm the second because something broke it. i don't go mucking around in that area without provocation.
[13:54] <taggie> anyway, thanks
[13:55] <rsk> yey
[14:02] <muszek> right after alpha4 came out I came here and was advised not to upgrade because GVFS might corrupt my data... is it still true?
[14:04] <muszek> *upgrade = dist-upgrade
[14:04] <rsk> no idea :P
[14:04]  * rsk holds on to hi's data
[14:23] <Samus2k> hello .. anyone have tried the lastest alpha release of kubuntu ?
[14:28] <Samus2k> ?????
[14:28] <rsk> nope
[14:28] <rsk> just the gnome one
[14:29] <Samus2k> then you dont know if the problems with the mount of NTFS partitions in 3.5 is in this version ?
[14:29] <Samus2k> or have been fixed in 4.0
[14:30] <Samus2k> sorry for my english i´m latin
[14:32] <nanonyme> i wasn't aware there was someone on the planet who speaks latin as his native language
[14:54] <shirish> what command I should use if I want to know from where a certain package was installed? archive.ubuntu.com or something else?
[14:55] <Pici> shirish: apt-cache policy packagename
[14:55] <rsk> synaptic maybe?
[14:56] <shirish> Pici is right.
[15:04] <Arelis> what is the latest "tribe" or whatever it is called for Hardy and where can i find a page describing it's new features?
[15:06] <rsk> Arelis: sec
[15:07] <rsk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha4
[15:07] <Arelis> rsk, thank you :)
[15:07] <Lunar_Lamp> rsk, the new features listed on Alpha4 page - are there any more expected before release?
[15:08] <rsk> Lunar_Lamp: chekout the milestones here https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy
[16:25] <lz7> during ubuntu install grub ignores boot order of disks (and this is a bug), but during boot it can't ignore that, cuz it always loads from device, which it identifies as (hd0,0).
[16:25] <lz7> if i installed ubuntu on second disk and write grub on that disk too, i.e. (hd1,0), than during boot grub fails with "error 15: file not found", cuz that second disk from which i boot becomes (hd0,0), but grub expecting image on (hd1,0).
[16:33] <lz7> how i explained that? is it fixable, do you tried to install ubuntu in multi-disk environment?
[16:33] <lz7> well... seems like a bug for me
[16:49] <lz7> wrong channel?
[17:41] <Assid> err.. anyone around
[17:41] <enyc> maybe
[17:46] <coz_> hey guys, if i am not mistaken here,  since both the linux wacom tablet driver and sun java are able to deal with the kernel in hardy  , and its unlikely that either one will be ready before hardy's release,  do you think there will be a delay in the release or a dropping of the current kernel for release/
[17:47] <coz_> sorry wacom talbet driver and sun java are NOT able to deal with hardy's kernel
[17:52] <Assid> err.. whats better vmware/virtualbox
[17:52] <Assid> im soo confused
[17:54] <coz_> Assid, well if you go to #vmware  or #virtualbox  they will say theirs is best :)  I would guess that question is more appropriate for #ubuntu  than here  :)
[17:55] <coz_> Assid, I  persoanlly use neither one  so i cant help with that :0
[17:55] <coz_> :)
[17:55] <Assid> coz_: if i go to any of those channels.. its always biased
[17:55] <Assid> so rather NOT ask there
[17:55] <coz_> Assid, yeah I think thats what I meant :)  probably for a less biased answer   #ubuntu would be good or better yet  #linux
[17:56] <Assid> and if you ever mistakenly ask someone in #ubuntu and mention your using hardy.. they go nuts
[17:56] <coz_> Assid, lol  I know
[17:56] <coz_> Assid, #linux is probably the best choice then
[17:57] <Assid> heaven forbid do they ever READ the question before yelling at you
[17:57] <coz_> Assid, or lie about which version you are running in #ubuntu
[17:57] <Assid> i dont get what their issue is
[17:57] <Assid> seriously
[17:57] <coz_> :)
[17:57] <Assid> ubuntu+1 BECOMES ubuntu effectively so what the hell is wrong with those people
[17:58] <Jack_mcdowell> Hello, sorry to bother but I compiled a 2.6.25-rc1 kernel and when installing it I get update-initramfs:.... | find: /lib/firmware.... No such file or directory.... etc....
[17:58] <Jack_mcdowell> this is because of the broken dpkg?
[17:58] <coz_> Assid, well the perspective of support   it is already a      hand ful to deal with problems with the released versions  and woulld get overwhelming to deal with alpha release problems as well
[17:59] <Assid> yes but a question like this doesnt require a rocket scientist or support
[17:59] <Assid> last time i asked about im's
[17:59] <Assid> didnt ask for support.. no dpkg.. nothing.. just im's
[17:59] <coz_> Assid, right!  however since the question is not deistribution specific I would ask it in #linux
[18:00] <Assid> Could not load the Host USB Proxy Service (VERR_FILE_NOT_FOUND). The service might be not installed on the host computer.
[18:00] <Assid> hrmm.. virtualbox doesnt like usb ?
[18:01] <cwillu> Jack_mcdowell, wouldn't be dpkg I don't think unless you actually made a deb that you installed
[18:01] <coz_> Assid, ah   well   it could be hardy also for that.... and as I mentioned I havent used either one so I have no way of knowing for sure
[18:01] <Jack_mcdowell> can someone help me about the dpkg? I have a half installed kernel... last time this happened I remember having to manually reinstall dpkg, is this what I should do?
[18:01] <Jack_mcdowell> well I got a kernel from kernel.org and patched it
[18:01] <Jack_mcdowell> but the same thing happened with gutsy when I compiled my own kernel
[18:02] <cwillu> Jack_mcdowell, I believe the update-initramfs is benign, (I see it on my machines, it doesn't break anything)
[18:02] <Jack_mcdowell> came to the #ubuntu+1 channel and discovered that dpkg was broken
[18:03] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, how did you fix the problem in gutsy?
[18:03] <Jack_mcdowell> downloading the new 'fixed' dpkg
[18:04] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, ah!   mm   well  why reinstall hardy's kernel  and wait until dpkg is fixed?
[18:04] <Jack_mcdowell> yes
[18:04] <Jack_mcdowell> that is one option
[18:04] <Jack_mcdowell> my problem is, how do I remove the half installed kernel?
[18:05] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, it depends , I guess, on the reasons you changed the kernel and whether or not you can still do what  you need with the original kernel
[18:05] <Jack_mcdowell> because it tries to finish installing it on every upgrade, etc... and of course, it fails
[18:05] <Jack_mcdowell> well I can
[18:05] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, oh!
[18:05] <Jack_mcdowell> but I still need noapic nolapic iraqpoll (which overheated and fried my mobo last time :( )
[18:05] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, right now there are a few things not avaiable with this current kernel which is the question I posed when I logged on
[18:06] <Jack_mcdowell> well  I can wait
[18:06] <Jack_mcdowell> but I just wanted to leave everything working so that I could upgrade to a more stable hardy without any problems
[18:06] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, ok  :)  good idea .. that way it causes less frustration
[18:06] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, I see!
[18:07] <Jack_mcdowell> dpkg -r linux-image-2.6.25-rc1-custom_2.6.25-rc1-custom-10.00.Custom_amd64.deb
[18:07] <Jack_mcdowell> dpkg: you must specify packages by their own names, not by quoting the names of the files they come in
[18:07] <Jack_mcdowell> any idea of how to remove it?
[18:08] <Jack_mcdowell> that would be solution enough :)
[18:08] <coz_> sudo make uninstall ?
[18:08] <cwillu> Jack_mcdowell, you made a deb, right?
[18:08] <Jack_mcdowell> yes
[18:08] <cwillu> simplest way to remove it would be to open synaptic, find the package, and remove it
[18:09] <cwillu> at the very least, that'll tell you what the actual package name is that dpkg is expecting
[18:09] <Jack_mcdowell> I'll check... I'm just worried because it is half installed... so, any upgrade tries to finish installing it, but it wont let me uninstall it
[18:09] <Jack_mcdowell> Ill check though, thank you!
[18:10] <coz_> well at the end of the day, if nothing else works, it;s just an Os    easily reinstalled ?
[18:10] <coz_> :)
[18:11] <tcpdumpgod> anyone know of a mp3 to avi converter?
[18:12] <coz_> tcpdumpgod, mm  mp3 to avi?
[18:12] <Jack_mcdowell> I feel very stupid! I should use synaptic more instead of the command line :) found them in 2 seconds
[18:12] <coz_> Jack_mcdowell, synaptic is your friend :)
[18:12] <tcpdumpgod> yeah, so i can upload a song to youtube
[18:12] <Jack_mcdowell> :) thank you
[18:13] <cwillu> np
[18:13] <coz_> tcpdumpgod, mm  they dont accept mp3 or ogg or other music formats?
[18:14] <Jack_mcdowell> done! perfect! oh, will hardy final have the .25 kernel?
[18:14] <tcpdumpgod> I believe they only accept video format.
[18:15] <cwillu> doubt it
[18:15] <coz_> tcpdumpgod, I am not sure you can
[18:15] <cwillu> Jack_mcdowell, unless 2.6.25 stabilizes really fast
[18:15] <coz_> tcpdumpgod, what I mean is I am not sure mp3 can be converted to avi   although it never occurred to me
[18:17] <tcpdumpgod> I'd imagine they could be.
[18:17] <Jack_mcdowell> ah... ok, well thank you... I'll need to stick to xp for a while then, because I can have my motherboard melt again now that Im out of warranty... damn hp dv6000
[18:18] <cwillu> ?
[18:18] <Jack_mcdowell> oh, the dv6000 overheats (a lot) with noapic and nolapic
[18:18] <Jack_mcdowell> to the point that the solder arround the northbridge melts
[18:19] <cwillu> and with?
[18:19] <Assid> i wish someone fixes support for my webcam
[18:19] <Jack_mcdowell> quite a serious problem!
[18:19] <Jack_mcdowell> xp works ok though... pclinux did too, but I prefer to stick with ubuntu
[18:19] <cwillu> what's the problem that you need noapic et al?
[18:20] <Jack_mcdowell> right
[18:20] <cwillu> ...?
[18:20] <Jack_mcdowell> then the cpu is erratic (getting stuck by hard interrupts from irq 7) and really overheats
[18:20] <Jack_mcdowell> yesterday it froze and wouldnt start for 10 minutes because it was overheated...
[18:21] <coz_> yikes
[18:21] <Jack_mcdowell> but its a kernel problem it seems...
[18:21] <cwillu> well, I'd be more inclined to say "it's work aroundable with a kernel patch";  software shouldn't be able to overheat hardware
[18:21] <Jack_mcdowell> and being out of warranty... I cant have it do it again :) (hp was nice enough to fix it last time)
[18:21] <Jack_mcdowell> right
[18:22] <Jack_mcdowell> the hp forums are full of people losing their wifi (next to the nrthbridge) and if you look close enough, most of them were running ubuntu :)
[18:22] <coz_> ok guys  have a good one...  have to go
[18:26] <avsa242> Has anyone else with a cx88-based device (e.g., pcHDTV HDxxxx series) experienced a regression in 2.6.24-7 from 2.6.24-5 where cx88-alsa cannot be loaded (disagrees about version of symbol, Unknown symbol)?
[18:56] <Assid> wtf 107 updates?
[18:56] <Assid> did we enter beta ?
[18:56] <Pici> Nooo.
[19:23] <Gnine> package [screens and graphics] is broken in x86_64 after setting external monitor
[19:26] <Gnine> resolution fixed at 1024x768. native resolution 1280x800 which i have to manually adjust via system > preferences > screen resolution
[19:26] <Gnine> on X or system restart
[19:33] <Gnine> Bug 130278
[19:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130278 in displayconfig-gtk "displayconfig-gtk crashed with IndexError in _resyncResolution()" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/130278
[19:52] <scizzo-> hmmm anyone else has color problems playing some DVDs in totem?
[20:07] <scizzo-> right xv stuff is not working properly here
[20:19] <Lattyware> Hey all, with Hardy, I'm getting a black screen. It goes Grub -> Black Screen -> Login, that's fine, but I'd rather see something, it's somewhat disconcerting. Is this intentional? (I'm guessing not.)
[20:20] <rsk> Lattyware: maybe because of the usplash upgrade
[20:20] <Lattyware> should I file a bug or something?
[20:21] <rsk> sure
[20:54] <Ayabara> how do I disable mouse tapping on my laptop in hardy? I can't find any settings for it in "Mouse"
[20:55] <Ayabara> and xorg.conf is really really small now :-)
[20:57] <avsa242> If you mean for the touchpad, I think you still need to install gsynaptics (requires an addition to xorg.conf)
[20:57] <Ayabara> avsa242: I meant touchpad. did that one come automagically installed on gutsy?
[20:57] <ethana2> it's easy to do in gutsy, if that's what you're asking
[20:58] <Ayabara> ethana2: what I mean is that in gutsy I didn't have to install anything to get touchpad options in my preferences
[20:59] <ethana2> correct
[20:59] <ethana2> and they're very important
[20:59] <ethana2> if they're not there by default in hardy, something isn't complete
[21:00] <ethana2> or perhaps there's a bug
[21:00] <Ayabara> ethana2: ok.
[21:00] <Ayabara> now I have installed gsynaptics. any of you know the xorg.conf edit I need?
[21:03] <mrtimdog> Quick question... When printing to PDF file, where does the PDF file end up?
[21:04] <Ayabara> night now. have to look more into it later. thanks
[21:12] <sveri> mrtimdog: where you tell it to end up
[21:13] <sveri> as far as i remember
[21:16] <ethana2> i'm considering installing the gnome global menu thing again.. but it eats small children...
[21:17] <ethana2> this guide seems a little more foolproof than the one i screwed over my apt index with..
[21:17] <ethana2> http://code.google.com/p/gnome2-globalmenu/wiki/QuickInstallonUbuntu
[21:18] <ethana2> it may not work with hardy though.. i don't think i should take the risk
[21:18] <yipe> hey I thought this chan always had the link to the release schedule in it's topic
[21:20] <coz_> yipe, someone will have to include that
[21:22] <yipe> how far along is hardy? Not very? I've totally lost track of the releases, been out of the loop
[21:23] <sveri> alpha 4
[21:23] <sveri> and usable for me
[21:23] <sveri> at least stable for the things i use
[21:23] <yipe> nice :)
[21:24] <sveri> yea, really
[21:24] <yipe> I'm excited that there will finally be a new lts release :D
[21:24] <sveri> hm, i thought kubuntu 9.04 wont be a lts released, or am i out of date?
[21:25] <sveri> i meant 8.04
[21:25] <ethana2> i can't even imagine how awesome 9.04 is going to be
[21:26] <yipe> I'm probably the one out of date
[21:27] <sveri> yipe: i think so
[21:27] <yipe> :( darn
[21:27] <ethana2> there is some really amazing art out there..
[21:28] <yipe> I thought it was called "Hardy" because it would be lts, hence hardy
[21:28] <ethana2> it's going to be sweet when the visual refresh hits repos and disk images
[21:29] <yipe> visual refresh?
[21:29] <ethana2> yipe: many rumors
[21:29] <ethana2> yipe: if there isn't one, people will explode
[21:30] <ethana2> ^_^
[21:30] <yipe> ...
[21:30] <ethana2> new theme and such
[21:30] <ethana2> it needs to be able to rival osx and vista all by itself
[21:31] <sveri> linux is able to rival that trash scince a long long time
[21:31] <Jack_mcdowell> help... opening synaptic gives this
[21:31] <Jack_mcdowell> E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.
[21:31] <Jack_mcdowell> E: _cache->open() failed, please report.
[21:31] <ethana2> functionally, absolutely
[21:31] <Jack_mcdowell> :(
[21:31] <ethana2> Jack: so you ran the dpkg --configure -a thing?
[21:31] <Jack_mcdowell> yes
[21:32] <ethana2> and the cache open fail is the result of it?
[21:32] <Jack_mcdowell> dpkg: error processing bluez-utils (--configure):
[21:32] <Jack_mcdowell>  dependency problems - leaving unconfigured
[21:32] <Jack_mcdowell> Processing triggers for initramfs-tools ...
[21:32] <Jack_mcdowell> update-initramfs: Generating /boot/initrd.img-2.6.25-rc1-custom
[21:32] <Jack_mcdowell> because... I had a failed kernel install... and removed it...
[21:32] <Jack_mcdowell> and now this...
[21:33] <ethana2> hmm..  'smack it with aptitude'
[21:33] <Jack_mcdowell> like... reinstall dpkg?
[21:35] <ethana2> no.. use aptitude to resolve all the dependencies manually
[21:35] <ethana2> and when the problem gets that far, I'm not ninja enough to really be of help anymore
[21:36] <Jack_mcdowell> yes... neither am I... and the help on the forums is usually partial at best
[21:43] <Assid> man new updates messed up my keyboard :(
[21:44] <enyc> Assid: welcome to development-releases
[21:44] <Assid> hhehee
[21:44] <Assid> i hope my desktop doesnt go too crazy
[21:46] <yipe> are there any relevant links where people are posting ideas or drafts for the visual refresh?
[21:58] <rubeez> when i run  "gnome-power-cmd.sh suspend" I got a a DBUS error
[21:58] <rubeez> Suspending
[21:58] <rubeez> Error org.freedesktop.DBus.GLib.UnmappedError.GpmControlError.Code0: The message was not sent due to DBUS security rules
[21:58] <rubeez> any idea on how this might be fixed?
[21:58] <rubeez> thanks
[21:59] <rubeez> suspend works find before login (at GDM screen)
[21:59] <rubeez> s/find/fine
[22:01] <gabspeck> i see generic icons for a lot of filetypes, what's wrong?
[22:17] <mateusz> Hi
[22:17] <mateusz> how to check what version of given package is in hardy?
[22:17] <mateusz> I have gutsy
[22:18] <rsk> packages.ubuntu.com mateusz
[22:18] <mateusz> and I want to install recent version of qemu
[22:18] <mateusz> but in gutsy its too old
[22:18] <mateusz> 0.9.0rc
[22:18] <mateusz> while latest stable is 0.9.1
[22:18] <crimsun> mateusz: use rmadison -uubuntu
[22:18] <crimsun> (or in hardy, just rmadison)
[22:19] <mateusz> crimsun: its also 0.9.0rc in hardy
[22:19] <mateusz> that version is old and really bugy
[22:19] <mateusz> from 2007
[22:19] <mateusz> 2007-08-16
[22:20] <crimsun> I'm not sure why you're telling me this  :=)
[22:20] <mateusz> so 7 mouths not updated
[22:20] <crimsun> I see bug 190681
[22:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190681 in qemu "Please merge qemu from Debian Unstable" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190681
[22:20] <crimsun> so it's definitely known.
[22:21] <crimsun> if you'd like to verify that a straight rebuild of the Debian sid source package works properly in current hardy, please note that in the bug report
[22:31] <emet> When will Celestia 1.5 make it into Hardy?
[22:31] <emet> !info celestia
[22:31] <ubotu> celestia (source: celestia): A real-time visual space simulation. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.4.1+cvs20070626-3ubuntu4 (hardy), package size 30 kB, installed size 60 kB
[22:35] <crimsun> emet: it's much easier if Debian sid has it first.
[22:35] <crimsun> emet: note also that FF is imminent.
[22:46] <mateusz> crimsun: I will recompile from debian
[22:46] <mateusz> I mean rebuild
[22:46] <crimsun> mateusz: thanks!
[22:46] <mateusz> ;]
[22:47] <mateusz> You want package?
[22:47] <crimsun> no
[22:47] <mateusz> ok have to go
[22:47] <mateusz> bye
[22:53] <emet> @schedule miami
[23:20] <bluefoxicy> does synchronizing with ntp work yet?
[23:20] <bluefoxicy> 'cause my system says it's feb 5 8pm EST
[23:21] <bluefoxicy> and that it's supposed to be syncing against ntp.ubuntu.com
[23:28] <theunixgeek> How's the new theme going?
[23:29] <rsk> theunixgeek: going to next release
[23:30] <theunixgeek> rsk: so it's gonna be done the next alpha? :)
[23:30] <rsk> no 8.10
[23:30] <theunixgeek> oh
[23:30] <ethana2> awwwwww
[23:30] <theunixgeek> Where can I get info on how it's going?
[23:30] <theunixgeek> Like, the top-rated theme suggestions, etc.
[23:30] <rsk> #ubuntu-artwork maybe
[23:31] <rsk> or maybe chek here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate
[23:31] <theunixgeek> rsk: wait.... 8.10? do you mean 8.04?
[23:31] <rsk> no i mean 8.10
[23:31] <rsk> 8.04 will not have a new theme
[23:31] <rsk> it was canceled
[23:32] <theunixgeek> :( why?
[23:32] <rsk> dunno
[23:32] <theunixgeek> where can I get info on 8.10?
[23:33] <rsk> theunixgeek: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha4
[23:33] <TheInfinity> he means 8.10
[23:33] <theunixgeek> so 8.04 won't be LTS?
[23:33] <TheInfinity> not 8.04
[23:33] <theunixgeek> TheInfinity: yes.
[23:33] <rsk> 8.04 will be LTS
[23:33] <theunixgeek> TheInfinity: 8.10
[23:33] <rsk> ops.
[23:33] <TheInfinity> 8.04 is LTS
[23:33] <rsk> then i dont know theunixgeek
[23:33] <rsk> :)
[23:33] <rsk> misread as 8.04
[23:34] <TheInfinity> kubuntu wont have a LTS at all because of kde4 and missing devs
[23:34] <theunixgeek> :P
[23:34] <TheInfinity> especially because of kde4 integration - this makes lots of work and kde4 is not thaaaaat stable
[23:35] <rsk> yea not even 4.0.1 is stable =)
[23:35] <rsk> 4x is more of a technology preview
[23:35] <TheInfinity> the interesting features will come with kde 4.1
[23:35] <TheInfinity> for end user
[23:52] <Arwen> anyone, approximately how stable is Hardy at the moment (none of the "it's dev software" stuff please)?
[23:52] <rsk> for me, no errors yet.
[23:53] <flipstar> on standart hardware its very stable i would say
[23:53] <flipstar> but you should be able to deal with varios errors anyway
[23:57] <Arwen> ok
[23:58] <Arwen> and, we're at tribe... 4?
[23:58] <rsk> not tribe anymore
[23:58] <rsk> it's alpha4 now
[23:59] <Arwen> ah