Kanomjg59: does the modprobe in initramfs look after blacklists because vesafb is blacklisted in module-init-tools00:16
Kanoand it writes that is not loaded00:16
thotypoushi caetano Tonho maskd :)00:22
Tonhothotypous: you dont will do this sugestion00:22
thotypoushey guys, I would like to ask if ubuntu would support a change from ALSA to OSS4 from 4tech-tech in it's official kernel00:22
Tonhois stupid :~ likes theses users00:22
thotypousTonho, hey, please more respect00:23
Tonhowhy, alioth is here o.O00:23
mjg59thotypous: No00:23
caetanomjg59, why?00:23
thotypousOSS is far more easy to develop than ALSA, and is portable (every UNIX uses OSS)00:23
mjg59Because it would be an unnecessary divergence away from the direction everyone else is going00:24
thotypouswe thin that if ubuntu changed to OSS4, everyone else would rethink using ALSA00:24
thotypouswe think*00:24
mjg59thotypous: I really doubt that00:24
rtgOSS is on the deprecation track.00:25
mjg59rtg: The existing in-kernel code, yes00:25
thotypousbut not OSS400:25
mjg59OSS has been maintained outside the kernel and is being picked up by Open Solaris00:25
mjg59(Which I don't think is an especially compelling argument, given relative market share)00:25
caetanoand the new OSS suports a good alsa emulation00:25
caetanothe oss emulation from alsa is very poor00:26
thotypousthe guys at dracolinux recently adopted OSS4 besides ALSA, so the slackware users should support it00:26
thotypousubuntu support would result easily in debian support00:26
thotypousslackware support -> arch support00:27
mjg59Debian make their own decisions00:27
thotypousarch support -> gentoo support00:27
thotypousand going on00:27
sorenI'm wondering what the problem you're trying to solve is?00:27
mjg59Once OSS4 is upstream, then there's a chance Ubuntu will adopt it00:27
mjg59But while it's out of tree, no. Sorry.00:27
Kanoyou can easyly install the deb from oss400:27
Kanono problem at all, alsa is blacklisted then00:28
Tonhothotypous: o.O wtf you want this? any special problem?00:28
caetanois very hard to work with sound in unix actually00:28
caetanoyou've to program to unix, to linux and to windows00:28
caetanoall unixes uses oss, but linux00:29
thotypousyes, that's the point00:29
caetanothe new oss4 is, I guess, very good, and full stuff00:29
mjg59All Unixes other than Linux are irrelevant as far as the desktop is concerned00:29
mjg59Other than MacOS. Which doesn't use OSS.00:30
Pimentel-ESas far as the desktop is concerned i believe linux IS irrelevant...00:31
thotypousbut portability, simplicity and API homogeneity is always important 00:31
mjg59thotypous: And having us diverging from the rest of the Linux market would do nothing to improve API homogeneity. You're kidding yourself if you think Red Hat or Suse will ship OSS without it being in the upstream kernel.00:32
thotypousI think Linus would be influenced by a Ubuntu decision00:32
mjg59No. Really, no.00:33
thotypouswhat about it if Mark Shuttleworth supported this decision?00:33
mjg59Mark is one member of the technical board00:33
mjg59(I'm another)00:33
mjg59Right now, I wouldn't support this decision00:34
thotypousso you can help us :D00:34
thotypousin the technical board00:34
mjg59So you'd have to convince the other two00:34
lifelessand convince mjg59 too; he doesn't sound convinced.00:35
thotypousah, but now we know who to convince :D00:35
lifelessand FWIW I haven't seen anything convincing in this discussion00:35
thotypousmjg59, what do you think it needs to OSS for becoming mainstream again?00:37
mjg59For a start, it needs alsa emulation that works - http://www.4front-tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2434 suggests that that really isn't the case at the moment00:37
mjg59Then you need to convince Linus to accept it back into the kernel, and to do that you'll have to demonstrate that it's significantly better than alsa in ways that aren't easy to fix00:38
thotypoushmmm thanks for the hints :)00:39
JanC<Pimentel-ES> as far as the desktop is concerned i believe linux IS irrelevant...01:05
JanCactually, linux (total) officially has 1.5% market share on the Belgian desktop market  ;)01:06
JanC(or had, almost a year ago)01:07
JanCand Mac OS X dis have 1.8% of the market01:10
JanCso linux is/was very close to the most-used unix-like OS...01:11
JanCand at that time, Vista did have 3.3% market share, and Ubuntu did have 0.3% market share...01:13
JanCthis report was compiled from research conducted in March & April 2007 (so almost 1 year ago)01:15
Kanortg: how about adding my patch to lum?02:11
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maks_BenC: did you get my initramfs-tools mail?11:24
Lurecan some kernel developer review (and possibly approve) proposed blacklisting of garmin_gps, see bug 11456511:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 114565 in module-init-tools "native Garmin-USB no longer working" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11456511:58
Kanohi rtg 12:02
Kanortg: when do you want to commit my patch?12:07
tjaaltonamitk, rtg: http://users.tkk.fi/~tjaalton/dpkg/lrm.diff12:51
tjaaltonobviously the version number is wrong12:52
rtgYou gotta love this: "Note : The syntek USB 2.0 video camera driver for DC-1125 ans STK-1135 is currently being developed on Linux. This driver can do damages. Use this driver only if you know what you are doing."15:12
rtgwhat damages could a web cam do other then oops ?15:12
Kanohi rtg 15:19
rtgKano: I'm working on it.15:19
Kanowell what is wrong with the patch?15:19
rtgKano: nothing as far as I know.15:19
Kanodid you look at dmraid45 too?15:20
rtgnot yet15:20
rtgKano: in fact, it slipped my mind because it didn't come through the kernel-team mailing list for general comment.15:21
Kanowhen i have got a makefile that creates 3 modules15:21
KanoMODULES := adv717x.o bt865.o em8300.o15:21
Kanodo i just the same and write obj-m +=?15:22
rtgKano: yep. But if you plan to submit these for inclusion in lum, I want one patch per driver.15:23
Kanothats really a bad idea...15:23
Kanoit is one driver with 3 submodules15:24
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rtgKano: then that appears to satisfy my criteria. 15:25
Kanowell i just would use internal header instead of global15:25
Kanoas patch15:25
Kanobut it needs firmware the em8300 driver15:28
mjg59Do we have permission to distribute that firmware?15:28
mjg59Hm. It seems to be in the em8300 package.15:29
Kanodont know, there are 2 ways, internal or external15:29
mjg59We go with external15:30
mjg59The firmware loader is there for a reason15:30
Kanoor just as external package the driver, it is a bit uncommon15:31
Kano0.16.4 would work15:32
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Kanobut it is needed for vdr15:34
Kanowhen you want to use it as external device15:34
Kanothats nice because then you can use vdr over tv+remote control and do something else with the pc15:34
Kanothe simple fix would be: fetch new em8300 package from sid (there is 0.16.4)15:40
Kanointerestingly this is one module for inclusion in linux-modules-contrib-2.6...15:41
zuldo we have like a kernel of the day thing yet?15:45
rtgzul: it almost works, but I haven't turn it on for regular builds. I still need to mess with lum.15:46
zulim just looking for -8 so I can update the drbd stuff15:47
rtgzul: -8 has some FTBS issues cause by dpkg that I'm working on.15:47
rtgx86 and x86_64 built OK.15:48
zuljust need x86 :)15:48
Kanozul: this is easy.just run 2 scripts ;)15:48
rtguh, I better check that for sure. 15:49
rtgzul: yes, x86* _did_ build. No lum/lrm/lbm etc yet.15:50
zuljust need the headers so I can do a test build locally shouldnt I?15:50
Kanolum does build too15:51
rtgzul: that ought to work.15:51
zulrtg: thanks..15:51
rtgtjaalton: I'll pick up the lrm changes as soon as I figure out the kernel FTBS on sparc/ia64/hppa.16:22
tjaaltonrtg: ok, thanks!16:26
tjaaltonnvidia-settings mess should be sorted now, finally..16:27
tjaaltonhow do I check the module dependencies of a module?16:28
rtgtjaalton: you mean in modules.dep?16:30
tjaaltonrtg: well, nvidia.ko, but I guess 'depmod nvidia.ko' or similar should work?16:30
tjaaltonjust to check if it depends on some other module, but.. wouldn't that violate GPL?16:32
rtgtjaalton: as long as its in the /lib/moduels/`uname -r` directory, it'll get sorted correctly.16:32
tjaaltonI'm aware of that ;)16:33
tjaaltonthis is for envyNG16:33
tjaaltonthe patch uses insmod, and that fails unless all the dependancies are already loaded16:33
tjaaltonah right, I'll grep the modules.dep :)16:34
rtgtjaalton: oh, you didn't say that. Why wouldn't the patch use modprobe?16:34
tjaaltonbecause it uses a special path16:35
tjaaltonnvidia_legacy.ko doesn't depend on any other modules, but nvidia.ko and _new.ko depend on i2c-core.ko16:36
_MMA_Hi guys. Alessio brought to my attention the desire to pull -rt into main. I have no objection. I just wonder if there's any foreseeable benefit?16:37
rtgtjaalton: hmm, there doesn't appear to be a way to specify a modprobe search order unless you use a modprobe.conf.16:37
tjaaltonrtg: right.. but it seems that loading i2c-core before the driver is enough16:39
tjaaltonso it's not a huge problem16:39
rtg_MMA_: uh, I think that was deferred to hardy+1 pending mainline inclusion of the -rt patchset.16:39
_MMA_Oh sure, I just wonder to what end? What's the point? :)16:40
rtgtjaalton: so you just hardwire that in the patch? I mean 'modprobe i2c-core' just before the insmod.16:40
tjaaltontseliot: hey, we were discussing your patch. It seems that insmod would fail unless i2c-core is loaded before loading the driver16:40
tjaaltonrtg: right16:40
rtg_MMA_: if the -rt patchset were upstream, then its a lot less work for maintainers. 16:41
_MMA_No no. "Main" as in our "main" repo.16:42
_MMA_Why does it matter if its in Main or Universe?16:42
rtg_MMA_: well, it doesn't matter to me. I'm a kernel guy :)16:43
tseliottjaalton: I talked to mdomsch about this16:43
tseliotand my patch shouldn't be necessary since the module is installed in /lib/modules/2.6.24-5-generic/updates/dkms16:45
tseliotwhich should have higher priority16:45
tjaaltontseliot: oh16:45
tseliottjaalton: I'm trying to see if the problem is the fact that we use nvidia_new, legacy, etc.16:46
tseliototherwise it's module-init's fault16:46
_MMA_rtg: Sure. I'm just chattin' here. Being in Universe now doesn't really lower its barrier to contribution and moving to Main wouldn't change that. We can build disks from Universe for Ubuntu Studio now. Also just because its in Main doesn't mean its Canonical supported.  Just wondering the point of the move is all.16:46
tjaaltonok, so we'll put the patch on hold for now16:46
tseliottjaalton: I'll let you know if I manage to solve the problem myself16:47
tjaaltontseliot: ok16:47
tseliotsee you later16:47
rtg_MMA_: for that you'll have to consult someone politically wiser then myself in the ways of Debian.16:47
* _MMA_ shoulda went to the meeting yesterday.16:48
rtgtjaalton: so, you gonna rip out the envy-dkms part of that patch?16:48
rtgof the lrm patch. I mean.16:49
tjaaltonrtg: sure, a sec16:53
rtgtjaalton: no rush. I'm still working on kernel FTBS issues.16:54
tjaaltonrtg: ok, done17:38
tjaaltonsame url17:38
rtgtjaalton: please email it to kernel-team also, so I don't lose it.17:38
tjaaltonI sent an email there already, but I'm not on the list so it's queued17:39
tjaaltonthat was for the earlier patch, but the url is there17:39
rtgtjaalton: I know the list admin :)17:39
tjaaltonso it seems to be there now17:40
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tseliottjaalton: I've just sent the new (ridiculously small patch)17:45
tseliottogether with a ridiculously long email :-P17:46
rtgmjg59: what do you know about asus-laptop v.s. asus_acpi ? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/184721 contends that asus_acpi  should be blacklisted, though I see no signs that the kernel is deprecating this driver.18:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 184721 in module-init-tools "linux-source-2.6.22-2.6.22 ships with deprecated asus_acpi.ko" [Medium,Triaged] 18:15
mjg59I'm under the impression that asus_laptop is the way forward18:16
rtgOught I add it to lum then?18:16
mjg59Probably, yeah18:16
mjg59Though isn't it in-kernel already?18:16
mjg59That might just be .2518:16
rtgno, only asus_acpi as far as I can tell. Would it be someplace other then acpi?18:17
rtgah, indeed.18:18
jaycamitk: I'm trying to get the linux-2.6.24-lpia kernel source package and I could not find it. where (deb-src URL) can I find it?18:18
rtgjayc: which ABI version do you want?18:20
rtgyou can also pull it from git.18:20
jaycrtg: I'm looking for ABI -718:21
jaycrtg: I would like to get the orig.tgz file so that I could upload the source to ubuntu-mobile18:22
rtgjayc: one sec...18:22
rtgjayc: 'dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/l/linux/linux_2.6.24-7.12.dsc'18:23
jaycrtg:So I can get the orig.tgz from there?18:24
rtgdget will pull all of the files required to build. Until we have an official release candidate, I have not generated an orig.tar.gz.18:24
rtgthe diffs are just too large, and therefore largely useless.18:25
jaycrtg:So then I will upload the entire hardy-ume kernel source to ubuntu-mobile PPA then. Thanks18:27
rtgjayc: yep. just do a 'dput *.changes' and it will figure it out.18:28
jaycrtg: got it :-)18:28
rtgjayc: there is a script in Hardy kernel that shows how to prepare a PPA upload: debian/scripts/misc/ppa-cron-job18:29
rtgits part of the daily kernel build infrastructure.18:29
rtg(which I have yet to turn on)18:29
jaycrtg:how can I use it, I don't upload to ppa regularly? you suggets me to just take a look at the script and see if it helps me?18:34
rtgjayc: yeah, its informational only.18:35
amitkheya jayc, I see rtg has already helped you out18:37
jaycamitk: yes18:37
rtgamitk: slacker, ya been napping ?18:37
amitkrtg: it's called "keeping the significant-other engaged'18:38
rtgamitk: ah, she who must be obeyed :)18:39
Kanobtw. did you see the new ati 8-02 driver18:50
Kanohas aiglx support for xserver 1.418:51
rtgKano: that is tjaalton's domain18:51
Kanoi dont use lrm but you should fix compiz detection18:52
Kanoand let fglrx work18:52
Kanoafter adding it..18:52
tjaaltonrtg: you can include it :)19:08
tjaaltonchanging the tarball is painful, btw19:08
tjaaltonsince there are changes outside the debian-directory19:09
rtgtjaalton: oh, feel free to do it :) I'm kind of buried.19:09
tjaaltonrtg: ok, I'll see what I can do19:09
rtgwith feature freeze approaching, I'm trying to get some last minute stuff done.19:10
tjaaltonKano: fglrx is already whitelisted19:10
Kanotjaalton: in the standard package or via fglrx override?19:10
Kanoi mean when you add it to lrm, the 8-0219:11
Kanofor hardy19:11
tjaaltonKano: the compiz wrapper19:11
tjaaltonWHITELIST="nvidia intel ati radeon i810 fglrx"19:11
tjaaltonbut it doesn't seem to work that well, at least not for everyone19:12
tjaaltonso hopefully this version is better in that regard19:13
Kanowell best add Option          "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" 19:15
mjg59Kano: Nghno.19:15
Kanodo what you like, i dont need lrm ;)19:16
mjg59If you want to disable a large chunk of 2D acceleration, sure19:16
mjg59But it's not terribly sensible in general19:16
mjg59We've got code in the X server that effectively does that dynamically19:16
Kanobut thats even faster when you disable it19:16
mjg59At the cost of increasing CPU usage, perhaps19:17
mjg59But that's very machine dependent19:17
tjaaltonright, that option is not needed19:35
tjaaltonati webpage still shows the old driver19:36
tjaaltonah, updated now19:36
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blueyedrtg: Thanks for looking into bug 188226, I've commented there - after/while reading some kernel documentation.20:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 188226 in linux "Kernel should use CONFIG_FAIR_CGROUP_SCHED" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18822620:54
rtgblueyed: I'm waiting for some feed back from the server team as well. I think its probably too late to implement any userland support for this. Feature freeze is tomorrow.20:57
Kanortg: did you see errors like http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/peripherals-hardware/53991-harddrive-errors.html21:01
Kanofor your current kernel?21:01
Kanothis happens for some users21:02
Kanoalso dma is off for my dvd drive (nforce3 chipset)21:03
Kanothis is not the case when you use pata_nv instead21:04
blueyedrtg: yeah, too bad.. would be quite simple though and only changing the config would be also better.21:08
blueyedI've tried to get feedback on this for quite some time (since 2.6.24 entered hardy)...21:09
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tjaaltonrtg: when were you planning to do the linux-meta bump? I could update lrm in ~8h23:03
lamontscsi_mod: value -6917529019036584304 out of IMM22 range23:35
lamontFATAL: Error inserting scsi_mod (/lib/modules/2.6.15-51-mckinley/kernel/drivers/scsi/scsi_mod.ko): Invalid module format23:35
* lamont grumbles at he dapper kernel;23:35

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