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=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
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ubotuSchedule for EST: 13 Feb 02:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 08:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 15:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team02:24
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ubotuSchedule for US/Pacific: 12 Feb 23:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 05:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 14:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 06:00: Desktop Team03:02
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ubotuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 08:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team03:05
scott21register cttnmth2104:08
scott21     /msg nickserv set hide email on04:13
=== calc_ is now known as calc
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* calc thought staying up to 1am would be easy, heh05:54
* calc thinks he should take a nap next time05:54
* bryce hands calc some coffee and toothpicks for the eyelids06:43
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
evandgood morning06:56
=== calc_ is now known as calc
TheMusoHi guys.06:57
* slangasek waves06:57
cjwatsongood morning06:57
* ogra yawns06:59
TheMusoNow you guys know how I felt the last couple of weeks. :)06:59
dokogood morning (although I have to leave in 10min)06:59
cjwatsondoko: ping?06:59
cjwatsonoh, and of course you're on vacation06:59
slangasekTheMuso: you had a nasty sinus cold the last couple of weeks?  My condolences :)06:59
cjwatsonright, let's get started then07:00
cjwatsonfirst off, congratulations to TheMuso for making ubuntu-core-dev last night07:00
* ogra applauds07:00
* asac hugs TheMuso 07:00
cjwatsonthis and others brings ubuntu-core-dev past the 50 mark07:00
TheMusoIs that 50 active core-devs?07:00
brycecongrats TheMuso07:01
TheMusoThanks folks.07:01
cjwatsonTheMuso: I'm not sure I'd go THAT fra07:01
* TheMuso scores. :p07:01
cjwatsonlooking down the list, I think maybe 45 or so are what I'd call active07:02
TheMusoWas just wondering, I didn't mean for people to check.07:02
cjwatsonso, feature freeze07:03
ogragah, he said the bad word07:03
cjwatsonwe have one day to go, and it's time to look down the list and figure out what's done, what should get an exception for some reason, and what we should defer07:04
ArneGoetjeexception until when?07:04
calcapril 17?07:05
ograonly for openoffice07:05
cjwatsonexceptions are usually for where there's a clear plan to completion (and usually a fixed end date), low risk, and usually not for too long since they eat into time available for other work07:05
* evand had been thinking FF was Friday. Argh.07:06
cjwatsonevand: last thing Thursday, in my book07:06
evandcjwatson: you're correct, I had been running off of false memory rather than checking the wiki.07:06
ogravalentine freeze07:06
ograeasy menmonic07:06
cjwatsonlet's run down the roster; I hope folks have a summary prepared07:07
cjwatsonasac: you first07:07
doko_cjwatson: please me first07:07
asaccjwatson: ffox transition as main browser should be done by that time. last upstream version not :)07:08
asacnetwork-manager started to prepare 0.6.6 (0.6.6 RC1 has been released yesterday) ... so I assume we want an exception for that as well07:08
cjwatsonoh, sorry07:09
cjwatsondoko_: yes, go ahead07:09
* asac holds back07:09
doko_toolchain: completed (outstanding is gfortran transition for universe; do we want to propose that for MOTU)?07:10
doko_dist-compiler-flags: uploaded, first breakage fixed.07:10
cjwatsonhappy for universe transitions to extend past feature freeze if MOTU are happy with the scope of the work07:11
doko_robust-python-upgrades: will probably not upload tomorrow, but on Friday/Saturday07:11
doko_java-for-main: still based on gcj, discussions about openjdk are going on07:11
cjwatsonslangasek: are you ok with the python upgrade work stretching out an extra day or two?07:14
slangasekyes, I'm comfortable with that07:14
cjwatsondoko_: ok, go :-)07:15
doko_sorry, have to leave07:15
asacbye doko_07:15
asacok i think i should continue?07:16
cjwatsonargh, the problem with this time is that it intersects with my mirror update ;-)07:16
cjwatsonasac: yes please07:16
asacok ... so network-manager might see a new upstrewam version after FF (upstream plans to release by end of Feb), but its merely a bug-fix release07:16
cjwatsonI think we knew in advance that we probably wouldn't have fx3 final by FF07:16
asacand our network-manager already carries a load of cherry-picks that would go into 0.6.607:17
cjwatsonoh, new upstream in the 0.6 series?07:17
asacyeah ... unexpected. appeared after some mailing list discussion07:17
asacubufox: we will have an ubufox for firefox 3 in time for FF (its completed). If we want to get a shiny new system-extension integration we need a FF exception. sorry, but firefox code didn't have the required bits to work on this seriously until recently.07:18
asacbut its in-house development ... if that matters07:18
cjwatsonsystem-extension => teaching firefox how to install extensions that are packaged as .debs07:18
asacyou will see what i mean with the beta 3 upload07:19
cjwatsonit would be a regression from gutsy if we didn't have that07:19
asacyou can now search for extensions in the addons-dialog07:19
cjwatsonwe marketed that quite strongly07:19
asaccjwatson: read what i said: we will have ubufox with the same featurees for FF07:19
asace.g. you can now click on the lnk that opens package manager07:19
cjwatsonoh, what does "shiny new" indicate then?07:20
asaccjwatson: that our package search is directly integrated in their addons search07:20
slangasekand how far along is that effort today?07:20
asacthis depends heavily on my over all work load07:21
asaci think it will take a week of work if nothing else pops up and some upstream code changes07:23
asacto make our extensions display in the same list07:24
cjwatsonas opposed to in the separate "Ubuntu Addons" tab?07:24
asacno ... as opposed to a link in the bottom that opens the package manager (like what we have in ffox 2)07:25
cjwatsonah, right07:25
asacthe other option is to display the package manager in a separate tab07:25
asaci evaluated that as well, but the amount of work should be more or less the same07:25
asac-> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/AddonsEmbedded.png (thats the gnome-app-install as a plugin prototype)07:26
cjwatsonmy experience with using xembed for things has generally not been great in the long run, so that wouldn't be my favoured option07:27
* evand chuckles over gparted07:27
asacyeah ... the right way is to integrate our search results in the main search io07:28
cjwatsonasac: how are things looking for you for the bug-fix part of the cycle? obviously my main concern is that further feature work eats into your time for stabilisation07:28
cjwatsonso it depends on our comfort level with that07:28
slangasekit sounds to me like it would be better to postpone these UI enhancements, given that there's a fair amount of work left to be done and you're likely to have your hands full with ff3 and NM, without also having to worry about fixing bugs in the new UI07:29
slangasekbut perhaps I misjudge, and updates to newer FF3 upstream releases will be a walk in the park :-)07:30
asaci agree to some degree. my priority is: fix xulrunner + NM issues07:30
asaconly then do these UI enhancements to ubufox07:30
asacslangasek: updates won't be a problem07:30
asacthe main problem is that epiphany upstream refuses to work on anything mozilla related nowadays so i have to do all the upstream work to fix the major blockers07:31
cjwatsonhow are the rest of the xulrunner issues looking?07:31
cjwatsonI gather OOo is nearly there07:31
asaccjwatson: xulrunner looks decent imo07:31
asacour packaging rocks for ffox 3 and xulrunner ... only thing that might cause work is that upstream has not yet committed to freeze api/abi ... so there might be respins needed07:32
cjwatsondo we have a means of detecting ABI changes, or are we reliant on people reporting breakage?07:33
asacbreakage for now ... but we see breakage early due to ffox/xul split07:34
cjwatsonok, I think we're going to have to move on, let's come back to ubufox UI changes if we get a chance later07:35
cjwatsonthanks for the details07:35
cjwatsonArneGoetje: you're up07:35
ArneGoetjelangpack-o-matic is ready for merge and testing07:35
ArneGoetjeI disabled the package split for zh-cn and zh-tw though...07:36
ArneGoetjethat means the installer won't need to be changed for now07:36
ArneGoetjeI will ping pitti later to let him take a look07:37
cjwatsonok, has pitti looked at any of it so far?07:37
ArneGoetjeseems not... he let me do the testing on my machine... :)07:37
ArneGoetjehowever, locally it works.07:38
cjwatsonok, that really ought to go into the archive today07:38
cjwatsonsimilarly with cjk-unifonts work?07:39
ArneGoetjeI didn't have time however to pursue on the language-selector changes and the font-selector though... so for language-selector would probably need an exception. font-selector maybe needs to be deferred...07:40
ArneGoetjecjk-unifonts is almost ready for upload.07:40
cjwatsonfont-selector was a bit of a late addition anyway, nice though it would be07:40
ArneGoetjeI'm currently fixing some bitmaps in the uming font and will then do the packaging07:41
cjwatsonthe language-selector work seems needed in order to take full advantage of the language pack changes07:41
ArneGoetjeI expect to upload the new package tonight07:41
cjwatsonwhich I think is something we want so we have flexibility later07:41
cjwatsonhow much more is to be done there?07:41
ArneGoetjeI'm not sure... need to consult with mvo07:42
ArneGoetje(he wrote the code, I'm just a coding newbie)07:42
cjwatsonok, I'll grab mvo later on today and find out what's happening there, if you don't beat me to it07:44
cjwatsonArneGoetje: thanks07:44
cjwatsonbryce: ?07:44
ArneGoetjeok, I will ask him too07:44
bryce* autoconfigure-monitor-frequency:   100% done.07:45
bryce* multi-monitor-config:              75% done.07:45
bryce* x-testing-infrastructure:          25% done.  Not FF-critical07:45
bryce* monitor-settings-database-online:  Postponed to Hardy+107:45
bryce* hardy-console:                     Reassigned07:45
brycemulti-monitor-config (aka Xrandr GUI) is coming along well, but will need a few more days until it's ready for upload.  Relatively recent screenshot:  http://bryceharrington.org/files/screenrez_9.png07:45
brycePart 1 was extending libxrandr; this is done.  I talked to Keith Packard about taking it upstream; he says he'd rather see it implemented as an independent library.  That's going to take another 2-3 days though.  I decided to press on with getting something functional, and will come back to that later.07:45
brycePart 2 is the GUI itself.  This is about half done, and will take a few more days before its functional enough to be uploaded.  I'm hoping to get here by Thursday, but it might take another day or two beyond that.07:45
brycePart 3 is basically lots of testing against different configs.  :-)07:45
brycex-testing-infrastructure has no components that need uploaded to Hardy, so I've postponed focusing on it for the time being.07:46
bryceThere is some remaining work to do with input-hotplug and hal support.  Timo is going to look into what's needed and will let me know if my help is needed there.07:46
bryceInkscape's pre-release has been uploaded.  Final version will come in 2-3 weeks.  Inkscape's in feature freeze, so it'll just be bug fixes from here on out.07:47
cjwatsonI'm concerned about input hotplug and hal; if that's changing, we need notice as it's going to be moderately complex to handle in the installer07:48
cjwatsonI think at this point we should probably stick with the input configuration mechanisms we've got, unless it lands by tomorrow07:48
brycecjwatson: okay07:48
brycecjwatson: I will check this with timo07:49
bryceall the other stuff on my todo list is either bugs or other stuff that can be postponed until after freeze.07:50
cjwatsonmulti-monitor-config is sexy enough in potential that I'd like to allow a few more days07:50
brycegreat, that'll help a lot07:50
* slangasek agrees07:51
bryceI don't know why someone else hasn't already done this work, but it's definitely something that everyone has been expecting for a while07:51
cjwatsonI'll have to poke mjg59 about the hardy-console kernel bit again, bit concerned about that07:52
cjwatsonlet's move on07:52
cjwatsonbryce: thanks07:52
cjwatsoncalc: you're up07:53
* bryce nods07:53
calclzma is pretty much ready aiui, i uploaded test OOo lzma source today07:53
calci think they may end up rolling it out tomorrow, but i am not certain07:53
cjwatsonkiko has told me they'll cherry-pick the required LP change rather than having us break feature freeze fo rit07:54
cjwatsonfor it07:54
calci am working on converting OOo over to use xulrunner-1.9 which will be uploaded along with the lzma fix (hopefully)07:54
cjwatson(and with that I think I'm definitely all out of LP team credit)07:54
asaccalc: great.07:55
cjwatsonooo-langpacks hasn't happened, right?07:55
calccjwatson: no07:55
calccjwatson: deferred to splitting of source07:55
calcwhich i will be concentrating on more as i get more time07:56
calcalso working with hsqldb upstream on a patch to correct the security misfeature, i verified the versions he wanted to use work and just waiting to get the patch from him at this point07:57
cjwatsonfor cd-reduction we'll have to see how things look once the alternates have lzma packaging07:57
cjwatsonthat's good news07:57
calconce we have lzma done i can go about adding lzma compression to various bits if you would like07:58
cjwatsondid you get the useless en_GB bits stripped out of the English langpacks?07:58
cjwatsonthat we identified in Cambridge07:58
calci'll have to go back and check that to make sure07:58
calci think i did, but i don't recall for certain at the moment07:58
* calc adds that to his todo list to verify07:58
calci think that is all, but i may be leaving out something08:00
cjwatsonthat one looked like low-hanging fruit, so we should grab it if we can08:00
cjwatsoncalc: ok, thanks08:00
cjwatsonevand: your turn08:00
calcyea, i will check it before uploading the next set of debs08:00
evand * UbuntuSpec:ubiquity-preserve-home : Major bug needs to be fixed and08:00
evandtested, but otherwise done.08:00
evand * UbuntuSpec:hardy-ubiquity-usability : Need to finish merging and08:00
evandrefining new tzmap.  Keyboard selection, time estimates, and auto-resize08:00
evandtext need to be done.  These are smaller tasks.08:00
evand * UbuntuSpec:hardy-ubiquity-reliability : Need to finish "repeat steps08:00
evandon failure" and merge in file copy integrity check work.  Need to add08:00
evandretry dialog for the bootloader and finish porting the rest of the08:00
evandbootloader work to Kubuntu.  Insufficient file space check needs polish.08:00
evand * UbuntuSpec:encrypted-filesystems : Deferred, discussed at previous08:00
evand * UbuntuSpec:installer-for-windows : Done, just a matter of fixing08:00
evand * UbuntuSpec:gobuntu-hardy : Haven't spoke to Kurt about the status.08:00
evandWill follow up for next meeting.08:01
evandThe bug in ubiquity-preserve-home wont take long to fix.  But I'd like to test it thoroughly before uploading that again.08:01
evandMy biggest concern is the new tzmap.  If possible, I'd like to have the weekend to finish it.  I can make ubiquity switch between it and the old tzmap with a flag, so it can be easily backed out, if necessary.08:01
evandThe rest should be doable by tomorrow night.08:02
cjwatsonwith the lack of development work on Gobuntu, we may have to do something drastic there08:02
cjwatson(but that's not your problem)08:02
cjwatsonslangasek: what do you think about the timezone map UI changes? I'm too close to it. The reason it's being considered is that it's what's needed to make the installer fit in smaller screen sizes, which is a major source of confusion and bugs08:04
evandanything I didn't mention is done or about to be uploaded08:04
cjwatsonthough I think the things Evan mentioned under reliability are larger sources of bugs and higher priority08:04
evandindeed, that's exactly why I want to push the tzmap into the weekend -- so I can spend the remaining time on the reliabilty spec08:05
cjwatsonevand: the map doesn't have to be in its absolute final form for FF, of course, just good enough08:05
evandwell, that will happen either way08:05
evandcjwatson: ok08:06
slangasekit sounds like the higher-prio stuff is well in hand, and I agree that the TZ map UI is a big deal for usability on smaller screens08:06
slangasekso I think an exception through the weekend is fair08:06
evandfantastic, thanks slangasek08:06
cjwatsonevand: thanks for the hard work on installer-for-windows, in particular08:07
evandyou're welcome, though I mostly enjoyed it.  I think we're set to grab a whole new class of users with that feature.08:08
cjwatsonI should slot in myself at this point08:08
cjwatsonhardy-bootloader-review: Most of the hard work done; still need to make menu item changes and apply some visual tweaks. Should be able to do most of the rest today.08:08
cjwatsonapt-authentication-reliability (mostly mvo): done08:08
cjwatsonnetworkless-installation-fixes (mostly mvo): done except for adding a progress bar to apt-setup for the 'apt-get update' stage, which was already tried in Debian and caused some problems; this probably won't happen08:08
cjwatsonand of course the seed reorganisation, which happened on Monday night and should relieve us from merge busywork in future; that was also a prerequisite for edubuntu-addon, coming up later ...08:08
cjwatsonTheMuso: anything from you?08:09
TheMusoinitramfs error handling: Essentially done minus the update-manager part, but waiting on kees to get back to me re implementatino and mdadm, however he is still catching up on email, so this may not happen for a while, and I don't think this is critical.08:09
TheMusoHowever, there is a new merge of initramfs-tools and lvm2 that need to be done, and I don't feel up to doing what appear to be rather big merges at this point, so if someone wants to do them, I can pass on my spec work to add to the packages.08:09
TheMusoStill looking at dmraid, and doing testing, however since its universe, can easily push it in as an addition later, or at the most, get an exception for it for a few days, once I've had a chance to install, integrate into initramfs error handling, and test.08:09
cjwatsonTheMuso: first step is to get whatever parts of the feature work you're comfortable with so far uploaded08:09
cjwatsonit doesn't all have to go in one giant upload08:10
TheMusoIf we are keen on possibly gettind dmraid in, there is also a new upstream version that might be worth uploading. I can take cae of that if we want it.08:10
TheMusocjwatson: ok08:10
cjwatsonon initramfs-tools merging, it's rather late and we may want to consider just backporting the stuff we need08:10
cjwatsondmraid will need to go to main if it's going to be useful08:10
TheMusoFair call. What about lvm? From what I remember, there is a new upstream version.08:10
TheMusocjwatson: Yeah I know re dmraid, which is why I'm willing to help test and integrate with error handling.08:11
cjwatsonTheMuso: once you have some basic testing of dmraid done, would you deal with the main inclusion review? now that you're -core-dev you can take that over from evand :-)08:11
TheMusoAs I happen to have the hardware that makes use of fakeraid.08:11
TheMusocjwatson: Sure, can do.08:11
cjwatsonwhat's the reasoning for looking at the new upstream of lvm2?08:11
TheMusoBut I don't think its worth doing till we've got the partman-dmraid bugs worked out.08:12
TheMusoOh I thought it may be desirable thats all.08:12
TheMusoI didn't dig any deeper, was just looking through what Debian has done since our version.08:12
cjwatsononly if there are compelling improvements08:12
TheMusoFair enough. Unless someone wants to look into it, I say just leave it.08:13
cjwatsonok, thanks08:13
cjwatsonogra: ?08:14
ogra * image creator -> freeze releveant stuff (packages) done, final changes on builder scripts pending until packages are in the archive08:14
ogra * usb suspend kernel fixes -> no feedback from amitk yet, will hunt him down this week08:14
ogra * theft protection -> behind on that, will need some more days ...08:14
ogra * behind, needs exception (doable until the weekend i think)08:14
ogra * seed integration between edubuntu and ubuntu ongoing08:14
ogra * debian-cd changes pending08:14
ogra * upstream reorganization in ldm and ltspfs are finished as well now, new versions packaged08:14
ogra * a majority of the open LP bugs closed (still 38 open though)08:14
ogra * ldm CK integration will still need some love on the CK side (local vs. non-local sessions)08:14
ograedubuntu-and-italc (classroom management):08:14
ogra * not officially approved boston spec stgraber worked on with massive success, he reworked the whole italc UI, made it compatible with ltsp5 as well as recent VNC with massive upstream participation (not something that eats much of my personal time apart from testing the package, but that huge effort should be mentioned somewhere :) )08:14
ogra sabayon and tuxtype had new releases that incorporate plenty of fixes i'd like in hardy, so i'd like to ask for freeze exceptions for these (both are edubuntu packages, sabayon follows the gnome schedule loosely)08:14
ograI'm mortified about the theft protection thing, it somehow slipped off all my todo lists and when i remembered it last night i recognized the upload from intel is broken ... :(08:15
calcmy connection is bouncing :-\08:15
cjwatsontheft protection is only going to appear in classmate, so feature freeze only applies insofar as slipping it takes away from your bug-fixing time08:15
ograwell, i'd like to not have ppa's in the classmate sources.list08:16
cjwatsonogra: I'll grab you today and we can do the edubuntu-addon integration08:16
ograi misread08:16
ograi have edubuntu meeting at 12:00 UTC08:16
cjwatsonogra: openssh CK integration is needed for ltsp, right?08:16
cjwatsonso I had probably better upload that :)08:17
ograwell, the ssh side of things seems fine08:17
ograwith your patches08:17
ograCK isnt yet08:17
cjwatsonCK upstream acked it and seemed happy except that he thought the need to make the session explicitly active was a CK bug08:17
cjwatsonbut we can live with that08:17
ograits not about active/inactive, its about local/nonlocal08:18
cjwatsonogra: please deal with sabayon and tuxtype in the usual way by mail to the RM if those are after FF08:18
ograwill do08:18
ograthe general concept of CK doesnt allow administrative tasks for non local sessions as i understood it08:18
ograi have the session listed in CK and marked active08:19
cjwatsonwell, policykit disallows it08:19
ograanyway, that doesnt belong here08:19
cjwatsonCK doesn't inherently say anything about it08:19
cjwatsonogra: either way, right now, you can work around it by running the admin tools as root, which will tell policykit to just let you through already08:19
ograah, right, s/CK/polkit/08:19
cjwatson(I know I said earlier that that wasn't needed any more ...)08:20
cjwatsonogra: please make sure there's a bug filed on policykit about ltsp's needs here08:20
ograright, well, i'd like it fixed somehow, but yes thast a feasable workaround08:20
ograwill do08:20
cjwatsonogra: what's left in edubuntu-content-server?08:20
ograeverything, but thats an afternoon fingertraining ... its actually only an empty metapackage for now with deps on the needed packages08:22
ograi can probably do it today if i have time left08:22
cjwatsonogra: ok, thanks08:24
cjwatsonslangasek: last up08:24
slangasekgrub-configuration-improvements: in beta since shortly before alpha 4, have a couple of bugs yet to stomp out but looking good for FF08:25
slangaseklarger-livefs: RT opened requesting more disk space on the livefs buildds to accomodate building another set of images for the DVDs; it seems unlikely that the buildd that's tight on disk space now will have more available by FF, but I expect to be able to have something in place for the other arch before Thursday08:26
cjwatsonwhich arch is which there?08:26
slangaseki386 has space, amd64 does not08:27
cjwatsonthat's a good way round08:28
* slangasek nods08:28
slangasekcjwatson: if we have it going for i386 in time, would it be ok to enable this for amd64 post-FF when the resources become available?08:29
cjwatsonPAM auth we deferred, IIRC08:29
cjwatsonI think so, if the idea is confirmed to work on i38608:29
cjwatsonalso, I would like to mutter vaguely about user percentages08:29
cjwatsonanything else of concern to you for FF?08:30
slangaseknot of personal concern, no :)08:30
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 13:00 UTC: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
cjwatsonand I think ubotu is hinting to us that we're over-time08:31
slangasekseems to be :-)08:32
cjwatsonall right, AOB?08:32
asacjust quick for my actions from last week: i couldn't verify that icedtea java doesn't work work on amd64 ( i tested a pbuilder build first and then the bits in the archive and both worked fine for me). so lets review if we can send j2se1.4 to graveyard next week i guess08:32
asacfor vpn plugins in main, soren said: "Last I checked, they never even had a proper release. I've always just grabbed a random svn checkout."08:32
asacso most likely this is a no go for main inclusion08:32
evand:( oh well.  Thanks for looking into it asac .08:33
cjwatsonasac: was that just vpnc, or openvpn too?08:33
asaci could upstream upstream list on release policy though - if we want.08:33
asaccjwatson: for both iirc08:33
cjwatsonasac: it's worth contacting them even if it doesn't make this release, I think08:33
asacok will do08:33
cjwatsonasac: did you get anything sorted with regard to 1.4's buildability?08:34
cjwatsonyou were to upload it to a PPA if you couldn't fix the build locally08:34
asaccjwatson: well given that i couldn't verify that icedtea doesn't work (which was the reason to look into resurrecting 1.4) i didn't put more resources in that08:34
asacwas that a wrong judgement?08:35
cjwatsona useful extra data point, is all08:35
asacok, i can upload ppa then (though i think we should seriously consider to refer to icedtea as our java plugin for amd64)08:36
cjwatsonI would like to, I'm just conscious that people have evolved personal preferences here so it would be nice to have strong reasoning for dropping things08:37
cjwatsonok, anything else before we adjourn?08:37
asacwell, i doubt that anyone would have preference for this broken 1.4 plugin. but anyway, will do08:37
cjwatsongoing ... going ...08:38
cjwatsonadjourned, thanks all08:39
slangasekthanks :)08:39
* TheMuso goes to fetch dinner.08:40
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ubotuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: February 13 2008, 11:32:03 - Next meeting: Education Team in 1 hour 27 minutes11:32
dholbach@schedule berlin11:32
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU11:32
RichEdhi ... who's here at the moment for the edubuntu/education meeting ?12:00
emgent@schedule rome12:00
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU12:00
emgentRichEd, wait one hour :P12:01
RichEdemgent ? any special reason why ?12:01
emgentRichEd,  13 Feb 14:00: Education Team12:02
emgent(13.00 in italy)12:02
* stgraber waves12:03
RichEdstrange ... looks like the fridge event was put in an hour late12:03
RichEdemgent: we normally kick off at 12h00 UTC ... which is now12:03
ubotuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU12:04
emgentEtc/UTC: 13 Feb 13:00: Education Tea12:04
emgentseems to star at 13.00 UTC12:04
RichEdemgent: yep ... same as the fridge event ... looks like the event creator shifted the time out12:05
* RichEd is confident about what time it *usually* is supposed to start since ogra and me manage the meetings :)12:05
RichEdogra: you around & about ?12:06
* RichEd suggets then that we move the meeting to the *advertised* time slot12:06
RichEd== edubuntu/education meeting = will commence in an hour ==12:08
RichEd(sorry guys ... the fridge schedule was incorrect ... we'll stick to the schedule)12:08
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== RichEd-1 is now known as RichEd
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Education Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU
RichEd=== edubuntu/education meeting = in 2 mins ===13:00
RichEdif you are here for the education meeting, say hi ... ogra does not seem to be available ... the meeting will probably be quite short with no tech13:01
ogra'm here now13:05
ograsorry, i worked through the night and had to get 3h of sleep, else i wouldnt survive the day13:05
ograso, geature freeze is tomorrow13:05
ogra*feature even13:06
RichEdogra: suspected that you were busy busy busy with that :)13:06
ograyeah, i was ... last night13:06
RichEdquick tech report ? ... we will not keep you from either your desk or bed ... whichever calls the loudest13:07
ograltsp is the latest and greatest ... i could close about 30 bugs after i had the three packages sorted :)13:07
RichEdstgraber: you around ? and highvoltage ?13:07
ograand there are more to come :)13:07
ograitalc is uploaded13:07
RichEdogra: :) good stuff13:07
RichEdon both LTSP and italc13:07
RichEdthanks due to stgraber for his work on that13:07
ograhe's a hero13:08
ografro sabayon i already anounced that i'll file a freeze exception (will do so later today) so we can get the upstream fixes in13:08
ogralaser is concentrating on getting squeak in shape atm13:09
* highvoltage is here13:09
highvoltage(thanks for the hilight)13:09
ograwhich is also important for the OLPC guys13:09
ograsince they do a lot in squeak13:09
ogra(which is quite weird since sqeak isnt free)13:09
highvoltage(not yet anyway?)13:10
ograwell, seems it as four different copyright holders and licenses13:10
ogragetting that sorted will take quite a while13:11
alkisg(thanks for italc! - a school teacher :))13:11
ograalkisg, as stated before, send flowers to stgraber, he deserves 100% credit for that :)13:12
highvoltageRichEd: could we start blogging/getting the word out about edubuntu being an add-on, and the benefits about that?13:12
ograCD changes13:13
RichEdhighvoltage: indeed you can ... and we'd like that very much13:13
highvoltageok, cool13:13
ogracolin has changed germinate and the seed design over the last days13:13
ograi cleaned up and prepared the seeds13:13
RichEdthere *will* be some confusion, and concern at the changes ... so the more info we can get out in a human friendly discussion before we get to release, the better13:13
ograduring the next days we'll change the dependency chain for the metapackages and seeds and then we're ready to go13:14
RichEdwhat would also be good, is if someone could do a fresh install of ubuntu + add-on and blog about it, and compare it to the "old way"13:14
ograso i finally expect to have the proper setup by alpha513:14
RichEdespecially an LTSP install13:14
RichEdogra: at UDS you were concerned about the "extra workload" anticipated due to the change13:15
RichEdbut lately, you've been saying it is in fact reduced13:15
ograthere is a lot extra workload ahead ...13:15
ograthere will be bugs13:15
ograand time to fix them is short13:16
RichEddoes this new structure work better for you now once it is bedded down13:16
RichEdassuming the bugs are from the transition, which should be a once off leap to the left13:16
ograall i'll have to maintain for edubuntu is a list of edu desktop packages and the server seed13:16
ogra(currently my seeds contain 14 files of which i maintain 6 ... one of them is nearly identical to ubuntu-desktop)13:17
RichEdand how is the "handover" of LTSP etc. is that now in a general distro area, or is it still effectively you ?13:18
ograthats still effectively me and i guess it will stay that way13:18
RichEdand is it seen by the rest of the team as an "education special focus" or is it viewed more generally13:19
ograas long as i'm involved upstream that closely it will at least13:19
ograi dont think the rest of the team cares much about ltsp :)13:19
ograso i dont expect them to haven an opinion about edu or not here ...13:20
ogra(dont forget they will look at it from a tech POV with the "oh, thats cool technology" view)13:21
ograanyway, ltsp is still pending menu integration ... so that needs documentation (there are tw mails on the ML already with instructions)13:22
ograthe experience will be different for users until thats done13:22
ogra(vs edubuntu now)13:23
ograbtw tonights iso should be intresting to test ... i havent tested all changes yet :)13:24
ograconsolekit -> ldm integration is still not done ... worst case we'll need to run administrative apps with sudo on ltsp ... which is indeed quite suboptimal13:25
RichEd^do we have many people helping you with testing ?13:25
ogra(consolekit is supposed to replace all the sudo stuff transaparently)13:25
RichEdor is the answer the usual "not enough"13:25
ograwell, there was not much to test wrt ltsp13:26
ograthe changes i made are already two milestone builds old :)13:26
ograso the intresting time starts just now13:26
ograand indeed i can never have enough testers :)13:26
ograon the classmate front i uploaded the packages for all classmate specifics yesterday13:29
ogratehy sit in the NEW queue atm13:29
highvoltageogra: ooh, ooh, forgot to tell you13:29
ograhighvoltage, congrats btw13:29
highvoltageogra: my classmate arrived last Thursday13:29
ogra(i'm reading my backlog )13:29
ArM-eyeamon-ra everyone13:29
highvoltageogra: so if you want me to do any testing or work on that front, just say and your wish is my command!13:29
RichEdhi nixternal ... how's the Edu chapter of the Big Book coming along ?13:30
nixternalhalfway through round 113:30
nixternalI should be finished up by this weekend with it13:30
ArM-eyeDo you want to read the reveal?13:30
ograhighvoltage, did you try the gutsy image ?13:30
nixternalI had one question though, will there still be a CD and a DVD, or just a CD now?13:30
highvoltageogra: not yet, where do I find it?13:30
ArM-eyeIt involves biblical figures13:30
highvoltageogra: It was my birthday party on Friday night and I was a bit useless the weekend :)13:31
ArM-eyeyes or no?13:31
ArM-eyeit must not be given against will13:31
RichEdArM-eye: yes or no to which question above ?13:31
ArM-eyeDo you want to read the reveal?13:32
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
ograhighvoltage, oh, you had on friday ? happy belated b-day then ... mine is on sat.13:32
highvoltagethanks :)13:32
highvoltageooh, another aquarian13:32
ArM-eyeI saw yes13:32
ograwe rule the world :)13:32
ArM-eyeRevel - Abraham is associated with the Egyptian pharaoh Amenemhat I (translates: amen is the head) who worshiped the god Amun (Amen). Abraham god then be associated with in the Abrahamic religions god as amun, amon, omon, amen and the deity aamon. Abraham/Amenemhet I13:33
ograArM-eye, can you stop that ? we have a meeting here13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - Jacob = King Yakubher13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - Moses = Thutmose III13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - David = Psusennes I13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - Solomon = Siamun (translates: son of amun)13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - James = Ptolemy Philadelphus13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - Thomas Judas Didymus = Alexander Helios13:33
RichEdArM-eye: we're actully in a meeting at the moment ... can we keep the religion out of here13:33
ubotuHelp! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono13:33
ArM-eyeRevel - Mary Magdalene = Cleopatra Selene II13:33
ograoh, i'm an op13:34
ArM-eyeRevel - JESUS = CAESARION, Ptolemy XV, King of kings, little ceasar, Isa, Jesus13:34
ArM-eyeThe son of Julius Ceasar / Divine Julius and Clepatra VII / Goddes Isis13:34
ArM-eyeMarried to his half sister at "wedding in cana"13:34
RichEd? can we get an op to boot the loony off the channel please ?13:34
nixternalthanks mdz13:34
=== Martinp24 is now known as Martinp23
RichEdthanks mdz13:34
ogramdz, thanks i was stil looking for the right IRC commands13:34
RichEdright let's get back on track13:35
RichEdogra: any more tech ?13:35
ograedubuntu-content-server might slip the freeze, iasked for an exception though and i might get the skeleton done today stil13:35
ogra(its actually only an empty package with dependencies for the start)13:36
ograthats it about tech ...13:36
RichEdthanks ...13:37
RichEdmoving on then to docs ... nixternal you got any issues / questions13:37
RichEd"<nixternal> I had one question though, will there still be a CD and a DVD, or just a CD now?"13:37
RichEdogra ^ accurate answer to that for nixternal13:38
ograhmm, good question13:38
ograi doubt we'll build a dedicated DVD13:38
nixternalthat's what I figured...I think that is the only question I had13:38
ograi can answer that later precisely ... but my gut feeling tells me thats not possible easily13:39
RichEdogra: *if* the add-on CD could at some stage be included on the ubuntu desktop DVD, would the add-on procedures work in the same way ?13:39
ograRichEd, no, we would have to adjust13:39
ograit would work in the same way in some areas but there would be stuff that needs love13:39
RichEdogra: well keep it in mind for UDS and a forward view towards 8.1013:40
RichEdif we could get all the edu stuff included on the standard ubuntu DVD, then we'll have a much wider potential audience13:40
ograbut space restrictions again13:41
RichEdogra: noted ... but if at least the main "selection options" were available ... then the rest could get pulled down across the net by the user13:41
ogracurrently the addon CD is filled 2/3 with langpacks we dont need ... if i drop them we'll have several 100MB13:42
RichEd(in a simply selection via a nice GUI front end, and not command line)13:42
RichEdnixternal: any other book questions13:44
ograwell, you can do that today already13:44
RichEd?? explain ?13:44
ogra(just install teh metapackages from the net)13:44
highvoltagenixternal: can the book be previewed anywhere currently?13:44
nixternalRichEd: that is it for now13:45
nixternalhighvoltage: it is just updating the last books chapter...thus far it is just changes to the ways of getting, downloading, and installing Edubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu Education Edition13:45
RichEdnixternal: in addition to highvoltage's question, one from me ... will we have access to the edu doc stuff you are writing ?13:46
ograRichEd, ^^^13:46
nixternalRichEd: I will check with Deb, but I am sure her or mako won't have a problem with that13:46
* RichEd loads ogra's link13:46
nixternalI do know they don't want it public, that's all I was told13:46
* RichEd ponders creative commons and all of that13:46
nixternalRichEd: that only applies after the release I guess13:48
RichEdanyone else with issues / topics / questions ? we're heading up to the hour mark13:51
RichEdogra ? shall we wrap ?13:53
ograwe could go on holding monologues :)13:53
RichEdgoing Once ...13:53
ograbut yes, lets wrap up :)13:53
RichEdgoing Twice ...13:53
* RichEd looks around13:53
RichEdand done ... thanks ogra and highvoltage and nixternal13:53
RichEdmeeting over ... any other topics move back to #edubuntu13:54
highvoltagethanks Riched, nixternal and ogra13:54
nixternalnp, thanks!13:54
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 20:00 UTC: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
bdmurrayhello to you too15:58
=== heno_ is now known as heno
pedro_hey hey15:59
MootBotMeeting started at 16:00. The chair is heno.16:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:00
henoWelcome all16:00
henoagenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings16:00
highvoltagehi heno16:01
* ogasawara is here16:01
heno[TOPIC] Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams16:01
henohi highvoltage :)16:01
ogasawarait's been on my todo list to split the list into teams, just haven't gotten around to it16:02
henoogasawara: do you need help with sorting the bugs, is it a manual process or will you get info from LP on bug contacts or something?16:03
bdmurrayogasawara: is that in the bzr tree yet?16:03
ogasawaraheno: I'd prefer for it to not be a manual process :)  so was going to look at making it more automated first16:03
bdmurrayI think I've seen a "platform team" in launchpad now16:04
ogasawarabdmurray: yes, it's in the bzr tree - well my branch in plb since the script doesn't require a separate text file to contain the list16:04
ogasawarabdmurray: uses plb and sorts against the tag16:05
henoso we can get platform, desktop, kernel and 'other'16:05
henoor do we need more groups?16:05
henoserver perhaps16:05
bdmurrayIs the platform team confirmed?  I'm poking around now.16:06
bdmurrayWell, regardless there should be one. ;)16:07
henoI'm just thinking a manual sort could be done in 20-30 minutes (but that won't be of any use in the next cycle of course)16:08
ogasawaraheno: agreed.  I'm just thinking going forward maintaining a manual sorted list will be a pain16:08
henoogasawara: It's your call; go with automation if you fell that's right and have a rough idea of how it could be done16:09
ogasawaraheno: I'll send everyone email if I run into any issues and need help16:10
henook, great16:10
henonext topic16:10
heno[TOPIC] Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText16:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText16:11
henobdmurray: does that new version look OK to you?16:11
bdmurrayOne reasonable thing I've heard is splitting 3 into 2 bits. so 3) what happened? 4) what you expected to happen?16:12
liwin point 1, I would say System -> About Ubuntu first, cat second16:12
pedro_i have al ittle concern with it16:12
liwlikewise in 2, I guess16:12
pedro_oh liw yes that one16:13
henobdmurray: sounds fine16:13
bdmurrayThe third paragraph I might add a bit how "Report a Problem" automatically does 1 and 2.16:13
henopedro_: was that your concern?16:13
pedro_do you  find really useful the cat /etc/lsb-release ?16:13
pedro_I've found that some reporters tend to submit that like "new shiny info"16:14
bdmurraypedro_: The information regarding the release is valuable.  What are you getting at?16:14
pedro_and re open bugs just because of that16:14
henobdmurray: without the text growing too much :)16:14
bdmurrayheno: right ;)16:14
pedro_we've experience that last weeks at least16:14
bdmurraypedro_: I'm not following do you have an example?16:15
pedro_sure let me find one16:15
henoI'm still not sure we need the command line versions there; can we move that to a wiki page this links to?16:16
henothose who absolutely prefer that would know to use it16:16
henopeople running servers for example16:16
henoThe tighter the text the more likely it will be read16:17
liwI'm fine with moving command line versions elsewhere16:17
pedro_i'd really happy with that16:17
heno'dpkg -l PKGNAME | cat' will make many just skip reading the whole thing IMO16:17
bdmurrayWhen I talked to mpt about it he thought the command line versions were the best as they are the most accessible.16:17
bdmurrayAdditionally, they are available across flavours of Ubuntu.16:18
liwlots of people who need to read that text don't even know what a command line is and will go ga-ga if they see such stuff...16:18
henoYeah, I think we should over rule mpt on this point16:19
bdmurrayI think we should look at bug reports and see what the reaction has been rather than guessing.16:19
henopeople generally know that Synaptic is replaced by Adept if they use Kubuntu16:19
pedro_liw: yes it confuse more than help them16:19
liwthen again, I go ga-ga myself, if there's more than four words or so16:19
liwbdmurray, good point16:19
liwbdmurray, although... people who go ga-ga might not be reporting problems at all anymore?16:20
henook, let's implement the other suggestions and revisit this one at the next meeting16:20
henobdmurray: will you look at a sampling of bugs to see what we are getting?16:21
bdmurrayheno: sure16:21
henothat will be interesting in any case16:21
bdmurraymaybe 100?16:21
pedro_bug 18763816:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 187638 in nautilus-sendto "package nautilus-sendto 0.13.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: unable to fill /var/lib/dpkg/updates/tmp.i with padding (dup-of: 187634)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18763816:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 187634 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-5-generic None failed to install/upgrade: failed in buffer_write(fd) (10, ret=-1)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18763416:21
pedro_there's one reporter that's sending the same info with apport16:21
bdmurrayI wouldn't complain about having too much information16:22
pedro_doing the cat lsb-release, so maybe we should write an exception on the filing bugs help about it16:22
henoI would agree with that16:23
pedro_i'm totally ok on getting the more info that's possible but replicate info isn't good16:23
henowe'll let bdmurray make the case for leaving it in at the next meeting ;)16:23
henoarmed with data16:24
henook, next topic16:24
heno[TOPIC] Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey16:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey16:24
bdmurraywell system -> about ubuntu is wrong on hardy16:24
pedro_bug 17667816:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 176678 in ubuntu-docs "Startup page for firefox states "Welcome to Ubuntu 7.10!" when it should say "Welcome to Ubuntu 8.04 (alpha 1)!" " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17667816:25
bdmurrayThat should really happen right at the beginning of the development cycle.16:27
henoperhaps we should get some bug guidance info on that page too16:28
henoPlease look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/PathsToFile16:28
henoI'm hoping to identify how people arrive at filing a bug and what docs they see along the way16:29
henoWe can get some access logs from IS16:29
henoAnyone want to have a poke at those to see how people navigate to the bug page?16:30
ogasawaraI'm just curious what we plan to do with this information once we get it?16:32
henoogasawara: make sure that people are exposed to information on how to file a good bug along the most common routes to filing one16:33
henoThe survey might actually provide better info though16:33
henowe are looking for a rough overview rather than detailed stats16:34
henoAnd we don't expect to do a running analysis16:34
bdmurrayit seems like the ubuntuforums admins might be worth talking to16:34
henogood point. I think there is a Fourum Council meeting soon16:35
henoI'll bring it there16:36
bdmurraygoogle says nothing links to +filebug16:36
henofrom seeing the logs of that page, nearly all refs were from the LP ubuntu page16:37
bdmurrayI could be doing something wrong though16:37
henobut we should track back from that16:37
ogasawarahttp://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link16:37
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link16:38
henobdmurray: could you try the same with the LP ubuntu page?16:38
stgraberbdmurray: Is the file a bug button visible when not logged in ? that would explain why it isn't on google16:38
bdmurraystgraber: yeah, I just got to thinking that16:38
stgraberthat or the +filebug page returns a no-index value so it isn't indexed by search engines16:39
bdmurraybut shouldn't links to it show up? or does google just ignore "broken" links16:39
liwwhy would anyone link to a page people can't access unless they create an account and log in? if they log in, they can just click on the "report bug" link from lots of places, can't they?16:40
henohttp://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it16:40
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it16:40
henoCan anyone think of questions that should be added to the survey?16:42
heno(I will run the by mpt as well)16:42
henoI've shown this to the LP bugs team as well16:43
bdmurrayHow will people answer question 4?16:44
bdmurrayIt's possible the bug still is filed about the appropriate package.16:44
bdmurraygah - isn't16:44
henotrue - it should rather be whether they found it easy to identify and mark the right package16:45
henosome packages are just tricky - openoffice, kernel, xorg16:46
bdmurraymark *a* package - right is rather subjective16:46
bdmurray3.5 should be do you know what a package is?16:46
liw"right" also requires them to be confident they chose the right package -- I often guess, sometimes wrongly16:47
henothese will be full text questions/answers so we would get that info16:47
henoI'd like to see the posibility to select a category before selecting the package so it can at least go to the right team16:48
henoopenoffice, printing, display, system16:49
bdmurrayI think some of that exists to a degree already16:49
henoas possible categories16:49
bdmurraydisplay - xorg16:49
bdmurrayprinting - cupsys16:49
henobdmurray: on the package search?16:51
bdmurrayNo at FindRightPackage16:52
henoI've got to run to a phone meeting in a minute16:52
henobdmurray: ok, I was thinking to create LP functionality like guidel filing in the gnome bugzilla16:53
henofinal topic: would someone like to summarize today's meeting?16:53
bdmurrayokay, I don't think having a whole separate pseudo package is best16:54
liwheno, I can do that16:54
henoliw: great thanks!16:54
pedro_http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing16:54
MootBotLINK received:  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing16:54
henosorry, I've got to run16:54
MootBotMeeting finished at 16:54.16:54
henothanks all!16:54
pedro_thanks !16:55
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
dvldamn... I often type unbuntu by accident....19:05
dvlserver meeting in about 35 minutes?19:23
ubotuSchedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 20:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest19:24
zulhey dvl19:24
zul@schedule montreal19:24
ubotuSchedule for America/Montreal: 13 Feb 15:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team | 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest19:24
zul1hr 35 minutes19:24
dvlzul: my server time must be off19:24
dvlNo, it's not, I was off.  My cellphone says 4pm EST, my head said 20:0019:25
dvlso I do have time to eat19:25
zulplenty of time19:26
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Security Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
MootBotMeeting started at 20:00. The chair is keescook.20:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]20:00
keescookhi everyone!20:00
gouki'night keescook!20:00
jdstrandhi keescook!20:00
propagandist;o} hey!20:00
keescookI figure I'll wait a few moment to let anyone else show up, and then we can get started.20:00
keescook[TOPIC] review agenda20:00
MootBotNew Topic:  review agenda20:00
keescook[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting20:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting20:01
keescookokay, so, anyone new to the meeting this week?20:01
mraI have never been to one of these before20:02
keescookcool, well, this is just the 2nd of it's kind, so we're new to it too.  :)20:02
lobome too20:02
nijabame neither :)20:02
keescookmra, nijaba: do you want to give a quick introduction about yourselves?20:02
keescookintroductions from last week are near the top of the IRC log:20:03
keescook[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/2008013020:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/2008013020:03
keescooklobo, nxvl_work: you too, if you feel up to it.20:03
nijabaok, I am the Ubuntu Server PM -> Nick Barcet IRL20:03
mraI'm interested in security work in Ubuntu, and also ia64 related issues20:03
keescookPM == Project Manager, yes?20:04
keescookmra: do you mean ia64 or amd64?20:04
nijabanope, product manager, but you do know that, keith ;)20:04
nijabathat was for project :)20:05
keescookright, I used the wrong word there.20:05
nxvl_worki'm a contributor to ubuntu, not yet even ubuntu member, i'm a student of system engineering on Lima - Perรบ20:05
mraI'm interested in all kinds, but not alot of people watch ia64 so I try to pay closer attention there20:05
keescookmra: what kinds of security work interests you?20:05
nxvl_worki'm working for 3 years as network and security consultant, most of the time making sysadmining20:05
mraI am part of the HP team that brought SuSE and RH through their CAPP/LSPP evaluations20:05
keescookmra: cool.  did you find that to be tricky?20:06
mraso I'm interested in all kinds of security, but I'm more interested in what Ubutu wants to do with security20:06
mrabut worthwhile20:06
keescooknxvl_work: cool20:06
keescookokay, welcome everyone.  :)20:06
keescookany other agenda items anyone wants to add at the last minute, go ahead and update the wiki, I'll reload it when we get near the end.  :)20:07
loboim 26 years old, live in the southern part of germany. work for about 4 years as network administrator for a mid size company. i'm interested in network security monitoring, computer networks in general and i'm also very interested in linux security. i run a couple of grsecurity hardened servers.20:07
keescooklobo: excellent.  I'd be curious to hear which grsec options you have enabled.  I'd like to get some of those features broken out and put into the mainline kernel.20:07
keescookokay, forging ahead -- we only have an hour :)20:08
keescook[topic] CVE status20:08
MootBotNew Topic:  CVE status20:08
* siretart waves into the round :)20:08
keescookI was on holiday last week, so I think I'll lean on jdstrand and anyone from motu-swat for this one.  :)20:09
keescookheya siretart20:09
lobokeescook: ok, maybe we can have a talk in ubuntu-hardened later about grsec ;-)20:09
keescooklobo: sounds good20:09
goukikeescook: I'm actually thinking about updating the Wiki with grsecurity. I was wondering if it's a possibility to Ubuntu and it's downsides (incompatibility with other software, wine for example)20:09
jdstrandumm-- not sure what to say here that wasn't in USNs...20:09
keescookgouki: yes please!  I'd love to see some feature details.  Perhaps use SecurityTeam/Roadmap/GRSecurity and outline the details (and link to it from the Roadmap page?)20:10
goukikeescook: Sure thing20:10
jdstrand(I'd be happy to talk a length-- just want to stay on topic)20:10
jdstrandat length20:10
keescookjdstrand: agreed.  maybe this agenda item is redundant.20:10
mrawhat is USN?20:10
jdstrandI will say that people were wondring about clamav20:10
keescookmra: Ubuntu Security Notice:20:10
keescook[link] http://ubuntu.com/usn/20:11
MootBotLINK received:  http://ubuntu.com/usn/20:11
jdstrandit was pushed out today for gutsy and feisty, but there is a buildd issue that isn't resolved yet causing a problem with dapper20:11
jdstrand(something about translations-- should be fixed soon)20:11
jdstrandI'll also mention for anyone who doesn't know that the local root exploit from slashdaot et al was patched yesterday20:12
keescookcool.  I think I put this on the agenda just to have a place to talk about CVEs in general.  Perhaps for next meeting, people can call out specific CVE issues they want to talk about.  And if the list is empty, we can skip it.  :)20:12
* keescook hugs jdstrand for those fixes :)20:12
\emgentsorry ofr away20:13
* jdstrand high fives keescook will he hugs him20:13
\emgentmy adsl sux.20:13
keescook\emgent: heh, no problem.  logs should be available from Mootbot20:13
jdstrand(however that is actually done, is up to your imagination)20:13
keescookokay, moving on20:13
keescook[topic] AppArmor progress20:13
MootBotNew Topic:  AppArmor progress20:13
* jdstrand wonders why he can't type20:13
keescookI haven't heard anything new from upstream, but will ping them today20:13
nxvl_workjdstrand: irssi via ssh?20:14
keescook[action] keescook to ping AA upstream for anything to sneak in before FF20:14
MootBotACTION received:  keescook to ping AA upstream for anything to sneak in before FF20:14
jdstrandnxvl_work: ?20:14
keescookmathiaz, jdstrand: you were both working on more profiles20:14
jdstrandkeescook: yes20:14
nxvl_workjdstrand: are you having troubles to type using irssi via ssh connection?20:14
jdstrandI am getting the packaging together for slapd, named and mysqld20:14
jdstrandnxvl_work: oh, heh, no-- just not too good today20:15
nxvl_workjdstrand: oh ok20:15
mathiazkeescook: kind of. dendrobates added an abstraction for likewise.20:15
jdstrandthe profiles are tested with our qa-regression-tests, and seem in good shape20:15
mathiazkeescook: It's a good way to figure out the workflow needed to get new profiles added.20:15
jdstrandwill be taking usr.sbin.named and usr.sbin.mysqld out of apparmor-profiles and adding them to their respective packages20:16
mathiazjdstrand: could you document how this should be done ?20:16
mathiazjdstrand: especially from a packaging POV (like Replaces etc...)20:16
jdstrandmathiaz: I sure will when it's all tested ;)20:16
propagandistjdstrand: would these regression tests be useful for selinux testing?20:16
keescook[link] https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing20:16
MootBotLINK received:  https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing20:16
jdstrandpropagandist: sure-- they exercise various parts of the application-- especially the default installation20:17
keescookjdstrand: the goal is to run them enabled?  That might be the distinction: if it's in "complain" they stay in apparmor-profiles, and in "enforce" they go into the target package?20:17
jdstrandthey aren't apparmor specific by any means20:17
mathiazkeescook: yes. That is the plan.20:17
jdstrandkeescook: oh yes-- full-on enabled20:17
keescookmathiaz: heh. yay :)20:17
jdstrandcomplete with note in README.Debian to go to DebuggingApparmor ;)20:18
jdstrand(which I wrote last week)20:18
keescook[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor20:19
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor20:19
jdstrandpropagandist: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/qa-regression-testing/master20:19
propagandistjdstrand: nice ;o) I will take a look at those and see how SELinux fares20:19
keescookpropagandist: more tests are always welcome.  ;)20:19
keescookokay, good time to transition to...20:20
keescook[topic] SELinux progress20:20
MootBotNew Topic:  SELinux progress20:20
propagandistPackages all pbuild succesfully and are available from the Hardened PPA:20:20
propagandist[LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hardened/+archive/20:20
propagandistThey are also on revu.20:20
MootBotLINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hardened/+archive/20:20
propagandistSources are available from:20:20
propagandist[LINK] https://code.launchpad.net/~calebcase/+junk/selinux-support20:20
propagandistHardy server and desktop boot successfully SELinux enabled and enforcing.20:20
MootBotLINK received:  https://code.launchpad.net/~calebcase/+junk/selinux-support20:20
keescookI'm a slacker and haven't managed to get through all the package reviews, but I have been working through the TODO list propagandist sent via emai.20:20
propagandistExternal Package Status:20:21
propagandistgrub            [bug 189173, submitted]20:21
propagandistopenssh         [bug 188136, submitted]20:21
propagandistpam             [bug 187822, merged]20:21
propagandistshadow          [bug 191326, submitted]20:21
propagandistustr            [new package, ?]20:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 189173 in grub "trigger for update-grub" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18917320:21
propagandistubuntu-standard [change apparmor-utils recommend to meta, keescook?]20:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 188136 in openssh "package openssh-4.7p1 configure.ac improperly fails to recognize getseuserbyname and get_default_context_with_level" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18813620:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 187822 in pam "package pam- pam_selinux.so doesn't support seusers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18782220:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 191326 in shadow "package shadow- enable pam_selinux in login.pam" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19132620:21
propagandistkeescook:  ;o} vacations are so rough!20:21
keescookpam is done, openssh just hit the archive (building now)20:22
propagandistAs keescook says, the packages are in need of revieweing and merging.  I am available to fix any problems with the packages (Freeze is tomorrow right!?) Please let me know what needs to be done!20:22
propagandistkeescook: oh nice!20:22
keescookustr is accepted in Debian.20:22
keescookI'll file a sync for it in Ubuntu right now...20:22
crimsunI've been helping joejaxx with reviewing the selinux source packages, but I'm traveling this week, so further progress will (unfortunately) be by proxy20:23
keescookpropagandist: what would help me is a checklist of the packages to review.  I can browse your PPA, but it'd be handy to have a wiki to take notes on.20:24
propagandistkeescook: kk, I will put them up20:24
keescookokay, ustr import requested.20:24
keescookit sounds like things are in good shape.  I'm going to poke at grub too.  I think shadow should be trivial as well.20:25
keescookwe'll make FF, and if not, it shouldn't be hard to get an exception since selinux doesn't work correctly currently, so new uploads can't really regress.  :)20:26
ScottKBreaking your package just before FF is the surest way to get to upload updates later.20:26
ajmitchScottK: shh, this is publically logged20:27
propagandistAre we using /[TASK] to assign these or just remember? ;o}20:27
* jdstrand makes a note of that20:27
keescookpropagandist: I think our [action] list would get long.  I think just making the TODO list in the wiki should be fine.  I've been able to see which things need sponsoring so far, so we're good.20:28
propagandistkeescook: kk sounds good20:28
keescookwe're skipping joejaxx's selinux UI stuff for this meeting since he hadn't slept in 36 hours.  :)20:28
goukitrue, true20:28
keescookbut, based on screenshots he posted a while back, it looks like it's very cool20:29
keescook[topic] hardening wrapper testing20:29
MootBotNew Topic:  hardening wrapper testing20:29
goukikeescook: Are this screenshots publicly available?20:29
keescookanyone get a chance to do more hardened builds with the wrapper?20:29
keescookgouki: yeah, but I don't have the link handy20:29
goukikeescook: No problem. We'll talk about it on -hardened.20:29
mrakeescook, are there links to those screenshots?20:30
keescookcrimsun: did you get the pbuilder bits documented?20:30
crimsunkeescook: yes.  I have a document that's sitting in $employer's prepublication review queue (due to my doing it on work time);  I'll get those bits posted onto the Ubuntu wiki upon their approval.20:30
keescookmra: see above (no)20:30
goukimra: Yes, but he doesn't have them handy. We'll talk about it on #ubuntu-hardened.20:30
keescookcrimsun: cool.  were you able to do any builds?20:31
crimsunkeescook: as a test, I built the entire audio stack from alsa-driver->alsa-lib->pulseaudio->gstreamer->bmpx20:31
crimsunkeescook: things were considerably easier than using hooks.  pbuilder provides bootstrap-time options for it.20:32
keescooknice! how did it do?20:32
keescookah, good20:32
crimsunwent fine.20:32
keescookcan anyone else make some time to do rebuild tests?  packages you're interested in, etc?20:32
keescookgeneral use of the wrapper is documented here:20:32
keescook[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper20:33
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper20:33
jdstrandit would be good to run the qa-regression-tests scripts on packages compiled with HardeningWrapper20:34
keescookyeah, good idea20:34
crimsunindeed, that's queued on my list20:34
keescookwe do need behavioral tests instead of just compile tests.  :)20:34
keescookI'd also like to see some benchmarks.  Some suggestions were made on the Debian mailing lists.20:35
keescook[action] keescook to find debian benchmark mailing list post link20:35
MootBotACTION received:  keescook to find debian benchmark mailing list post link20:35
keescook[topic] ubuntu-pentest20:36
MootBotNew Topic:  ubuntu-pentest20:36
* keescook turns it over to emgent20:36
\emgentheya :)20:36
\emgentwell, ubuntu pentest team wiki page is up20:36
\emgent[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest20:36
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest20:36
\emgentnow we can define "working tools docs" and PT draft report20:36
keescookI'm waiting to get the mailing list up (I sent an RT for it)20:37
\emgentok cool20:37
\emgentI think that it's important write a draft report for monitoring all works20:37
nxvl_workalso we need to check the appliance of memberships to the team20:37
\emgentnxvl_work, later see agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting20:37
\emgent[action] emgent to write report draft20:38
nxvl_work\emgent: i mean to avoid this -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2008-February/000294.html20:38
\emgentsomeone interested to write some docs about working tools for new members?20:38
goukinxvl_work: There is a topic for that on the Wiki20:39
nxvl_work\emgent: first we need to decide which tools are we going to use20:39
keescooksome "process guildlines" would be good too (i.e. keep vulns private until fixed, etc)20:39
nxvl_workgouki: yep, but read the link i have just posted20:39
\emgentnxvl_work, we can talk about it in ml, if it's ok for all.20:39
keescookand people can be team members if they agree to abide by those guidelines, CoC, etc.20:40
goukinxvl_work: I'm aware of that. I followed the discussion. But we will get to it.20:40
\emgentwell about working method20:40
keescook[action] emgent to write report draft20:40
MootBotACTION received:  emgent to write report draft20:40
nxvl_workalso we need to have standards and policies about the tools used (i.e: not to use dangerous tests, which tools to use, etc..)20:40
jdstrandkeescook: can we get them to sign something separate for the CoC, or is that enough?20:41
\emgenti think that it's good decide one 1-2 day for month for pentest-sessions20:41
nxvl_worknot to touch anything if you gain access20:41
nxvl_worknot to break anything20:41
keescookthat can include upstream contacts, where/when to test live services (i.e. staging.launchpad.net)20:41
\emgentwe can talk with infra people and working to services.20:41
keescookjdstrand: I'm not sure there is a general way to do "sign this thing", so we just have to take people at their word.20:42
astharot1/2 days couldn't be enough20:42
\emgentit's important see "draft report" and wrte a new with all tests20:42
mrakeescook, you could ask them to gpg sign something20:42
mraits a way to register that you agreed to it20:42
jdstrandkeescook: maybe if they gpg signed the contents of an email message and sent it to the mlist?20:42
nxvl_workkeescook: we can make a Contract of Confidentiality and everyone on the team must sign it20:43
\emgentastharot, what do you propose ?20:43
jdstrandthose contents would be the 'policy'20:43
nijabamra: right, and post it on their own wiki page20:43
keescookmra: true, we could look in to it -- but I think an email confirming should be good enough.  yeah, sure, sign the email.  cool.20:43
crimsunastharot: for specific components of the infra, I don't see why it wouldn't.20:43
astharotit depends on how platforms do you want to test per month20:43
jdstrandkeescook: I think it's important from a mindset point of view, as well as potentially legal20:43
\emgentkeescook, can you talk with infra people for number pt sessions ?20:43
goukiOther than that, we could also have in account contributions done by that person.20:43
jdstrand(people will take it more seriously if they sign it)20:44
astharotfirst there should be a census of the platforms to be checked20:44
astharotthen start thinking to a "schedule"20:44
keescook\emgent: I'm unclear what you mean?  I think we'll need to coordinate infra-poking on a case-by-case basis with the infrastructure folks20:44
\emgentastharot, +120:44
\emgentkeescook, ok20:44
* jdstrand feels they *must* sign the email20:44
keescook\emgent: i.e. we can make a list of things we want to test, and then bring it to them, and schedule times to do it.20:44
\emgentok cool.20:45
keescookjdstrand: I agree -- it's not a very high barrier.  :)20:45
astharotmoreover, you should decide how many times per year/month/week you want to test each platform20:45
astharotor on "new releases" basis20:45
\emgentastharot, yep later, now we should write report draft20:45
dvlnothing like having the laptop die 15 minutes before the meeting...20:45
keescooknxvl_work: would you be willing to go through this IRC log and pull out all the method/guideline ideas we had?20:46
keescookif they got recorded in the wiki, it'd be a great starting point for more details20:46
\emgentabout Ubuntu Pentest day i think that first is good complete other docs (draft report, working tools docs etc..)20:47
nxvl_worki'm kind of out of time this week, but if you can wait until weekend there is no problem20:47
\emgenti think that we can decide date in ml or next meeting20:47
\emgentand write a calendar20:47
astharotfirst the census, then the schedule20:47
* jdstrand wants to go on record that we need to have our CoC in place, signed, and our policies defined before any pentesting20:47
\emgent[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/PentestDayCalendar20:47
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/PentestDayCalendar20:47
keescooknxvl_work: yeah, weekend should be fine.20:48
\emgentme too, weekend +120:48
keescook[action] nxvl_work to prepare rough draft of pentest guidelines in Wiki, including ideas from ths IRC logs20:48
MootBotACTION received:  nxvl_work to prepare rough draft of pentest guidelines in Wiki, including ideas from ths IRC logs20:48
\emgentwell, according to astharot  is good first the census and later the schedule20:49
keescookjdstrand: I think that's fine.20:49
\emgentkeescook, when pt private meilinglist is ready we can use it for coordination20:49
\emgentit's ok for all ?20:50
keescookyup, sounds good.20:50
\emgentok, now candidature20:50
nxvl_workwe can use bug reports on LP team as mailing list20:50
nxvl_workwe use to use it on DCT :P20:50
keescook(10 minutes left, let's trying to be quick...)20:50
\emgentandrea-bs, nxvl_work  online ?20:51
gouki\emgent: please, proceed. It's important to define that.20:51
andrea-bs\emgent: I'm here :)20:51
goukiMaybe it would be good for Zelut to be around20:51
\emgentabout bugreports we can use launchpad np20:51
goukiHe the listadmin and owner of the hardened team.20:51
keescookI'll send a meeting-minutes note to the hardened ml20:51
\emgentgouki, i know.20:51
goukiI'll talk to him.20:52
\emgentwe can procede to membership approvation ?20:52
keescookplease do :)20:52
goukiI believe so20:52
keescookI think if applicants understand they need to be careful and use responsible disclosure (private bugs, etc) that should be good.  :)20:53
andrea-bsI'm a developer who use Python as main programming language, but I know C/C++20:53
andrea-bsand ASM on x86 (AT&T syntax) too. I'm interested in bugs and of course in20:53
andrea-bssecurity issues in Linux and expecially in Ubuntu. I work with Ubuntu20:53
andrea-bsBugControl and I'd like to join PenTest to help out better.20:53
\emgenti saw him wiki page and launchpad page20:53
\emgentfor me +120:53
keescook+1 too :)20:54
* jdstrand knows he is harping on the same thing, but if we have all our policies, etc figured out, this will fall into place20:54
goukiI also read it, and if I have anything to say, +120:54
\emgentjdstrand, please vote :)20:54
\emgentastharot, please vote too.20:54
astharot+1 ? :)20:54
\emgentheheh :P20:55
\emgentjdstrand, ?20:55
jdstrand+1 (but wants something signed by all of us)20:55
keescook(oops, I need to do the mootbot voting)20:55
jdstrand(am I obsessing?)20:55
* jdstrand think you are jdstrand20:55
keescook[agreed] we'll retroactively make sure all pentest members sign the pentest CoC20:55
MootBotAGREED received:  we'll retroactively make sure all pentest members sign the pentest CoC20:55
keescookwelcome andrea-bs :)20:55
\emgentcrimsun, plese vote20:55
andrea-bsthanks everybody! :)20:55
keescookheh, getting ahead of myself, but 4 minutes left!20:56
\emgentok :D20:56
keescookquick quick, on to nxvl_work :)20:56
crimsun+1 here20:56
\emgentwelcome andrea-bs20:56
\emgentnxvl_work, go20:56
jdstrand(we might also define who gets a vote, etc)20:56
nxvl_workas i said before20:56
andrea-bs\emgent: thank you20:56
nxvl_worki'm a 23 years old student20:56
\emgentjdstrand, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/Members20:56
keescook[action] \emgent to define who votes for pentest membership20:56
MootBotACTION received:  \emgent to define who votes for pentest membership20:56
\emgentkeescook, all members.20:56
nxvl_workand i have 3 year experience working as network and security consultant20:56
* jdstrand thinks this is sounding like a Council20:57
nxvl_workmost of my work has been sysadmining and pentesting20:57
goukiAs webmaster of PUU, I believe nxvl_work would be good. He has made several good and informative posts fetched by PUU.20:57
keescookbased on discussions, i'm +120:57
crimsunalso +120:57
nxvl_workmy area of specialization is security, cause i love it20:57
\emgentastharot, jenda20:57
\emgentastharot, ?20:57
\emgentok welcome nxvl_work20:58
* astharot is automatic +1 :)20:58
keescookwelcome nxvl_work :)20:58
keescook2 min!20:58
nxvl_workthanks to all20:58
gouki2 minutes left! :S20:58
\emgentkeescook, switch topic20:58
keescook[topic] Contributing to ubuntu-cve-tracker - what's the best way?20:58
MootBotNew Topic:  Contributing to ubuntu-cve-tracker - what's the best way?20:58
keescookeveryone please review the README in the ubuntu-cve-tracker and prepare questions about it for next meeting!20:58
keescook[topic] todo list20:58
MootBotNew Topic:  todo list20:58
nxvl_workgouki: what's puu?20:58
keescookeveryone please fill in our roadmap wiki page.  :)20:58
keescook[topic] next meeting20:59
MootBotNew Topic:  next meeting20:59
goukinxvl_work: ubuntuweblogs.org20:59
nxvl_workah yes20:59
keescookI'll defer motu-swat membership20:59
jdstrandI put that there for thinking about bzr branches, etc.  so we should be thinking of that too20:59
keescooknext meeting, in two week, same time/place?20:59
crimsunsounds fine20:59
andrea-bs+1 from me (if I can vote :D)20:59
keescookthe ayes have it.  done!  :)20:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 20:59.20:59
\emgentvery fast :D21:00
keescooka bit rushed.  :P21:00
keescookbut I think we have some good stuff to work one.21:00
\emgentthanks for all21:00
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest
keescookmathiaz: all yours.21:00
keescookthanks everyone for coming!21:00
* jdstrand thinks that meeting flew by...21:00
propagandistthanks ;o}21:00
jdstrandthanks keescook!21:00
nijabathank keescook21:00
nxvl_workthanks all21:00
ScottKjdstrand: I did the feisty-backports update for clamav, so all the pockets are now covered.21:00
nxvl_worksee you on 2 weeks21:00
jdstrandScottK: I'll add that to my ever growing todo list21:01
mathiazthanks keescook !21:01
mathiazLet's move on to the Ubuntu Server Team meeting21:01
ScottKjdstrand: No. It' published.  No more work required.21:01
jdstrandoh-- -backports.  duh21:01
sommerhey all21:01
* nealmcb waves21:02
* jdstrand thanks ScottK for not adding something to his todo list at this moment21:02
mathiazkeescook: did you stop your meeting with mootbot ?21:02
dvlhey, that's my emoticon!21:02
keescookmathiaz: yup21:02
dvlthat's better21:02
mathiazkeescook: ok - I hadn't seen it.21:02
MootBotMeeting started at 21:03. The chair is mathiaz.21:03
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:03
mathiazWelcome to the Server Team meeting !21:03
mathiazLet's try to make it shorter than last week.21:03
mathiazThe Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting21:03
mathiaz[TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.21:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.21:04
mathiazPrevious meeting log and minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/2008020621:04
mathiazivoks: started to work on the bacula merge.21:04
ivoksi proposed a python script, but this is going to be replaces by awk script21:05
dvl[if I fail to respond to a question, my link died, flaky laptop today]21:05
mathiazright - I suggested to try to get upstream to accept our changes21:05
ivoksdvl: is bacula dev, so we are trying to coordinate work21:05
dvlIt came upstream.  It was good.21:06
dvlI liked it, others liked it.21:06
mathiazdvl: would accept the python script ?21:06
mathiazdvl: talking with ivoks, it seems that you'd better stick with a shell script.21:06
ivoksdvl: if we finish awk script, which should work as the python script, would that be ok for upstream?21:06
dvlmathiaz: yes.  But if awk is preferred, we'll go with that too.  We think awk is better supported on our platforms.21:07
dvlivoks: the awk script will be fine.21:07
ivoksgreat; only thing to do - teach ivoks awk :D21:07
dvlmathiaz: shell script would be good too, if we can parse it.21:07
mathiazdvl: well - I'm just hoping that if we fix something in ubuntu upstream devs are ready to accept the change.21:08
dvlivoks: well, Python is pretty popular, but awk is pretty much everywhere.  You folks are writing the script, if you have a preferred language, propose it21:08
dvlmathiaz: We are happy that Ubuntu is doing this work. It's great.  We'll take it.21:08
ivoksdvl: we'll do it in awk ;)21:08
dvlmathiaz: I've already tested the python script with a PostgreSQL database.  worked with minimal changes (that were PG specific)21:09
dvlivoks: OK.21:09
mathiazivoks: dvl: ok - let's go for a awk script21:09
dvlmathiaz: in short, if it comes, we'll use it, if it's anything like the Python script.21:09
ivoksi think we can move on, this one is decided21:09
mathiazis there anything else needed for bacula ?21:09
mathiazivoks: ^^21:09
dvlOK, anything else for me?  if not, I'll move on....21:09
ivoksdvl: thank you for your time21:10
dvlThanks folks.  The Bacula project wanted me to say thanks too.  later.21:10
zuljust a MIR for bacula21:10
ivoksmathiaz: some packaging stuff21:10
mathiazthanks dvl21:10
mathiazivoks: how confident are you to get it uploaded before FF (ie tomorrow) ?21:10
ivoksnot very21:11
nijabaivoks: how complex it the python script?21:11
ivoksnijaba: it's simple, but we've droped it21:11
nealmcband what does the python script do?21:12
mathiaznijaba: we've chosen to go for a awk script21:12
mathiaznealmcb: parses the bacula configuration files to extract database information21:12
nijabaivoks: yes, understood, but if not too complex I could translate python->awk for you21:12
mathiaznealmcb: such as db name, password and username21:12
ivoksnijaba: that would be great21:12
nijabaivoks: where can I find it?21:12
ivoksnijaba: ubuntu-server mailing list :)21:13
ivoksthere's already one part mathiaz did21:13
ivoksnijaba: i'll send it to you on email21:14
* nijaba must be blind, can't find this mail in the ml21:14
ivoksnijaba: i'll send you both then...21:14
mathiaz[ACTION] nijaba to help ivoks with rewriting the bacula python script in awk21:14
MootBotACTION received:  nijaba to help ivoks with rewriting the bacula python script in awk21:14
mathiazI've scheduled a session to present the Server Team during the Ubuntu Developer Week.21:15
mathiazI will run the irc session next monday at 20:00 UTC21:15
mathiazThat's all for the last meeting actions.21:16
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu community21:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu community21:16
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu community - forums21:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu community - forums21:16
mathiazfaulkes-_: any updates on the forums ?21:17
faulkes-_sorry, was in another window21:17
faulkes-_1. The "Servers & Security" forums how been split into two seperate forums21:18
faulkes-_they are "Server Platforms" & "Security Discussions", they are now listed in the main support categories rather than the "Other Community Discussions" area21:18
faulkes-_this was the first of our objectives, in order to equalize the importance and prominence of the server side of ubuntu21:19
faulkes-_2. A forum sticky detailing information on the Ubuntu Server Team21:19
faulkes-_a message was sent to the ML, on wich we received feedback from a number of members, Loye agreed to review the proposed sticky for grammar, spelling, etc.21:20
faulkes-_I am still waiting to hear back from Loye so it can be posted21:20
faulkes-_3. The forum council has offered the Ubuntu Server Team moderator priveleges for the Server Platform forum21:20
=== AndyP_ is now known as AndyP
mathiazfaulkes-_: great - who are the moderators ?21:21
faulkes-_specifically, this was sent to me, such that I would be listed as a moderator21:21
* nealmcb is surprised to see the second google hit for "forum ubuntu server team": a microsoft forum page saying "Join the ubuntu home server team - Windows Home Server". above the ubuntu forums themselves. need to figure that out 21:21
antdedyetfaulkes-_: it looks like the now named "Server" forums holds all the past data and "Security" was created anew?21:21
mathiazfaulkes-_: I though about having a way to get feedback from the forums21:21
mathiazantdedyet: correct21:21
faulkes-_my initial reaction was that this would need to be discussed with the group and have agreement that I would take this on21:21
mathiazfaulkes-_: Most of the people in the team don't go to the forums.21:22
faulkes-_and secondly, that a secondary person be nominated (volunteer) to be a backup21:22
antdedyetmathiaz: alright.21:22
faulkes-_mathiaz: correct, although I did see recent postings from Loye in there21:22
mathiazfaulkes-_: but having someone compile a list of problems coming up over and over would help.21:22
faulkes-_so, I am willing to take this on21:22
faulkes-_with the groups approval21:22
faulkes-_group's even21:23
mathiazfaulkes-_: I think it'd be good idea considering that you've already been active in the forums.21:23
faulkes-_mathiaz: yes, I have a number of thoughts that are along that line21:23
mathiazfaulkes-_: excellent. Could you send a proposal to ubuntu-server ml with ways to report back to the server team ?21:23
faulkes-_I was only concerned with getting approval and asking if a secondary volunteer would be interested, for redundancy21:24
faulkes-_mathiaz: yes, I can do that21:24
mathiazfaulkes-_: great.21:24
mathiaz[ACTION] faulkes-_ to send an proposal about bringing feedback from the forums to the developer team to ubuntu-server ml.21:25
MootBotACTION received:  faulkes-_ to send an proposal about bringing feedback from the forums to the developer team to ubuntu-server ml.21:25
faulkes-_ok, duly noted that I will take on responsibility for that and as well provide a proposal to the ML on ways to report bak21:25
=== faulkes-_ is now known as faulkes-
mathiaz[TOPIC] Ubuntu Community - ml and irc21:25
MootBotNew Topic:  Ubuntu Community - ml and irc21:25
mathiazdendrobates: ?21:25
dendrobatesmathiaz: it would be nice if we had a group of volunteers that could help users that show up in the irc channel21:26
dendrobatesor the ml.21:26
dendrobatesor if they are lost point them the correct way.21:26
faulkes-dendro: I have been trying to help as much as possible on irc as well21:26
* ScottK thought we pretty much did already.21:26
nxvl_workdendrobates: that wouldn't be part of the "tasks" of the sponsor team?21:26
dendrobatesScottK: we do most of the time.21:27
nxvl_worki also think ScottK is already doing that job21:27
nxvl_workhe has help me a lot21:27
dendrobatesnxvl_work: that is basically what I am saying is to make sure we include this in the sponsorship program.21:27
nxvl_workoh ok21:27
dendrobatesScottK is also not awake 24 hr/day21:28
mathiazdendrobates: would you define shifts ?21:28
mathiazdendrobates: or having people on duty ?21:28
nxvl_workso, the sponsors are not only asked to help their mentees but also the new people21:28
dendrobatesI just wanted to open it up for discussion.21:28
antdedyetI try to help out in #ubuntu-server occasionally too, although I have been somewhat lurking to make sure my answers are on par with what the server team would thinks.21:28
mathiazdendrobates: I think we're already good at doing it.21:29
nxvl_workwhat we can do21:29
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 13 Feb 22:30 UTC: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team
nxvl_workis to use more often the "offer mentoring" option on LP21:30
faulkes-I think a better solution is already somewhat it the works, by knowing who works on what (i.e. ScottK on postfix), so that the people who are present can pass along to the appropriate people21:30
dendrobatesI notice in the late evenings EST, people pop in and never get questions answered, and leave.21:30
faulkes-if they can't answer it directly21:30
nxvl_workso new people can quick start working on some basic/easy task with someone helping them21:30
nealmcbmy focus on the factoids is a step in that direction21:30
mathiazdendrobates: right. But I'm not sure we enough members to covers the IRC channel 24h a day21:31
faulkes-nealmcb: we should collude, based on what I'm doing in the forums, it is likely I coud help to build out additionals21:31
nealmcbfaulkes-: right on21:31
ScottKdendrobates: I think with volunteers there is only so far you can go with trying to get coverage.21:31
dendrobatesmathiaz: maybe not yet21:31
faulkes-ScottK: agreed21:31
faulkes-but knowing who to point someone to is a big help if you can't answer someone directly21:32
dendrobatesThe idea was for there to be more ways that non-programmers can contribute21:32
* faulkes- nods21:32
mathiazdendrobates: humm... I see your point.21:32
mathiazdendrobates: the GettingInvolved page on w.u.c already list helping out on IRC and ubuntu-server as the easiest way to get involved.21:33
nealmcbdendrobates: right - and real-time help on irc is one good way to help21:33
nealmcbsysadmin gurus on call :-)21:33
ScottKA not unrelated point is that it'd be nice for it to be easier to leverage this work into additional consulting business.  It helps the volunteer motivation.21:33
mathiazdendrobates: may be we could give some more advice/help on how to do it.21:33
nealmcbs/on call/online/ ...21:34
antdedyet<-- is a freelancing sysadmin >:)21:34
mathiazScottK: right - although I'm not sure if you can find business leads in #ubuntu-server21:34
faulkes-I think looking for business leads in #ubuntu-server would be a bad idea21:35
faulkes-we don't want people to think that we charge for support, or give that impression21:35
mathiazwhat about adding a role that covers helping out in #ubuntu-server and ml ?21:35
faulkes-that's canonical's gambit21:35
nealmcbfaulkes-: and many others....21:35
faulkes-I think defining "helping out on irc/ml" a little more in-depth would be of greater benefit21:36
ScottKI don't have a hard time saying that someone has gotten beyond the level of help I'll give for free.21:36
faulkes-ScottK: understood21:36
antdedyet== ScottK # we have bills too.21:36
ScottKJust saying ...21:37
faulkes-ScottK: however defining that for each individual would be different21:37
faulkes-and likely to cause issues or give the wrong impression21:37
mathiazScottK: I think that's great. But I wouldn't mention the business side of things as a point to encourage people contributing on #ubuntu-server21:37
faulkes-mathiaz: agreed21:38
nealmcbperhaps a factiod on more in-depth help that would point to the web page that lists folks offering support for ubuntu?21:38
mathiazso - how could the section on GettingInvolved be improved ?21:38
ScottKmathiaz: Agreed.21:38
dendrobatesmathiaz: but pointing people to a wiki of consultants, when they need extra help might be fine.21:38
mathiazdendrobates: sure - I think we should point to the ubuntu marketplace.21:39
ScottKdendrobates:  +121:39
mathiazdendrobates: that's what it's been created for.21:39
faulkes-mathiaz: I think to improve the GettingStarted, for irc and the ML we need to define some criteria based upon involvement with the Team21:40
nxvl_workmathiaz: i think to write it more consistent when i read it a lost myself and don't know to get involved21:40
nealmcbwhy does http://www.ubuntu.com/support only point to canonical for Professional support?21:40
nxvl_workalso showing examples of what we do (i.e: putting links to some interesting bugs like postfix dovecot integration)21:41
soren"Professional support is also available from companies listed as Canonical Partners."21:41
faulkes-mathiaz: the same suggestion you gave to me about the forums sticky, have the information for becoming a member at the top and bottom21:41
faulkes-currently it's at the very bottom21:41
nxvl_workso the ones who read the page can felt in love with the team and his tasks21:41
faulkes-so it's misleading to people who think to be officially part of the team, they need only be on irc and the ML21:41
ScottKsoren: Is there a pointer on how a small business might become such a Canonical Partner?21:42
jdstrandScottK: there is21:42
mathiazfaulkes-: agreed with a link to become member at the top.21:42
sorenScottK: Yes.21:42
faulkes-mathiaz: and I was also add the forums to the list of irc and ml for ways of being involved21:42
jdstrandScottK: I forget where off-hand21:43
* ScottK will investigate that then.21:43
sorenScottK: Not right there, though. It's a bit out of scope for that page.21:43
jdstrandbut I read it once21:43
mathiazfaulkes-: good idea21:43
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to update the GettingInvolved page with a link to the forums.21:43
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to update the GettingInvolved page with a link to the forums.21:43
nealmcbI still think the ubuntu support page should point to a list of support options that are independent of canonical21:43
nealmcbthough of course I am very appreciative of the many wonderful canonical folks here and in general :-)21:44
antdedyetScottK: let me know what you find out -- I'm interested in that too21:44
mathiazSo to move on, let's talk about the mentoring program.21:44
mathiaz[TOPIC] Community - mentoring21:44
MootBotNew Topic:  Community - mentoring21:44
antdedyetScottK: that == my business becoming a Ubuntu Partner21:44
sorenantdedyet: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners21:44
zulnealmcb: i think that might be out of the scope of this meeting21:45
* nealmcb nods21:45
mathiazI sent out a proposal and got some feedback, publicly and privately.21:45
dendrobatesnealmcb: we should discuss this later though.21:45
nealmcbdendrobates: thanks21:45
mathiazI plan to create wiki page that outlines the program, what it has to offer to mentee and what is expected from mentors.21:45
antdedyetsoren: Thanks. I will mention my experience later on #ubuntu-server.21:46
mathiazHopefully I'll get something ready for Monday21:46
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to create a wiki page about the mentoring program for the server team.21:47
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to create a wiki page about the mentoring program for the server team.21:47
mathiaz[TOPIC] ebox statux21:47
MootBotNew Topic:  ebox statux21:47
nxvl_workmathiaz: you can base it on the MOTU one21:47
mathiaznxvl_work: yes.21:47
nxvl_work[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring21:47
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring21:47
mathiazzul: how is ebox shapping up ?21:47
nxvl_workit has good information and also a good format21:48
mathiaznxvl_work: will do. thanks.21:48
zulmathiaz: its got some issues still i ran it through pbuilder and some of the builds failed, i generated some patches for my work but I got distracted with FF stuff21:48
zulmostly ServerPackageReview21:48
zulmathiaz: mostly the issues right now are missing build-depends and policy issues21:49
foolanozul: i'm one of the eBox developers, feel free to report stuff to me21:49
mathiazzul: considering that ebox is affected by FF, what are the chance it gets in ?21:49
zulmathiaz: still alot of work to do21:49
zulfoolano: hi there21:49
dendrobateswe can ask for an exception.21:49
* nealmcb nods21:50
sorenScottK: Any chance of granting an exception?21:50
soren(ISTR you're on the motu-ff team)21:50
mathiazfoolano: are you using ppa ?21:51
ScottKsoren: I am.  I think it's an excellent candidate, but you'll need to ask when it's ready.21:51
nealmcbare we still expecting ebox to be in a tasksel?21:51
mathiazfoolano: it may be a option to get things tested on ubuntu.21:51
nxvl_workmathiaz: i think his upsream developer21:51
sorenOf course, but if you can "Hell no!" already, we could save ourselves the trouble.21:51
foolanonxvl_work: we do packaging work too21:52
mathiazzul: can you keep foolano in the loop with packaging issues you've seen ?21:52
nealmcbfoolano: thanks for all your work and mesages to date!21:52
zulmathiaz: yes I can send an email tonight21:52
foolanoi've been working on modify stuff to comply with the debian policy21:52
ScottKFor tasksel it would need to get into Main.21:52
zulIll stick my debdiffs up tonight21:53
foolanowe dont overwrite configuration files without ask permission21:53
mathiazfoolano: excellent !21:53
foolanoand most of the modules are doing that in a very nice way21:53
foolanothe only thing is the packaging21:53
mathiaz[ACTION] zul to mail foolano the packaging issues he has seen with ebox21:53
MootBotACTION received:  zul to mail foolano the packaging issues he has seen with ebox21:53
foolanoit needs some love21:53
MootBotLINK received:  http://trac.ebox-platform.com/roadmap21:53
mathiaz[TOPIC] MIR status 2 days away from FF21:54
MootBotNew Topic:  MIR status 2 days away from FF21:54
mathiaznijaba: what are you concerns about this ?21:54
nijabanot much, just a general status of where we are21:54
nijabasnort has been pushed back21:55
nijabadrdb needs some work21:55
zuldrdb is almost done :)21:55
nijabamost of the others have been accepted but nee some minor bugfix21:55
ScottKamavisd-new is approved and hoping for some tasksel love from ivoks.21:55
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
jdstrandthe nut audit is still on my todo list21:56
mathiazok - seems that we've done well for the MIR process.21:57
mathiaznijaba: any outstanding ones ?21:57
nijabaok, so everything seems to look good on that front in general...21:57
nijabamunin has not been reviewed yet21:57
mathiaznijaba: have all the mir been reviewed ?21:58
nijabamathiaz: ^^21:58
mathiaznijaba: only one left ?21:58
nijabayep, I beleive so21:58
mathiaznijaba: excellent ! :)21:58
mathiaz[TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.21:59
MootBotNew Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.21:59
nijabaapart from the last one added by support yesterday21:59
ScottKI've updated the server roadmap with the list of packages needing update to get rid of libdb4.3 (and updated where we are on 4.2).21:59
ScottKIf people want to get some easy packaging experience, that's a place to look.21:59
mathiazScottK: have you filed bug for this ?21:59
mathiazScottK: you can use the sponsor feature then.22:00
ScottKNo.  Just put it on the wiki page.22:01
mathiazScottK: ok.22:01
ScottKI may do that though.  It's a good idea.22:01
ScottKSomeone else wants to do the launchpad foo, I'll be happy for it.22:01
mathiazScottK: It could be a task to start with.22:01
mathiazI'd like to use the sponsor feature more often.22:02
mathiazThere is also the bitsize tags - that should raise the visibility of tasks so that bug ends up in the MOTU list for example.22:02
mathiazdendrobates: how easy is it to join an AD domain now ?22:03
sommerdoes the libdb task need to be done before FF?22:03
dendrobatesmathiaz: you already know :)22:03
dendrobatesIt is very easy, if your dns is correct.22:03
mathiazdendrobates: yes :) - but I'm sure the whole world'd like to be updated ;)22:04
mathiazdendrobates: Has the package been published ?22:04
dendrobatesI uploaded likewise-open, but the AA's requested a change.22:04
dendrobatesJust finished fixing it.22:04
mathiazdendrobates: so it should hit the archive tomorrow ?22:05
dendrobatesIt seems to work, but we could use more testing.22:05
dendrobatesI hope.22:05
nealmcbis there a tool to file bugs in launchpad based on library dependencies?  seems like a common thing, and helpful for libdb....22:05
mathiaznealmcb: not that I know of.22:05
dendrobatesif you want to check it out it is in my ppa.22:06
mathiazdendrobates: I've seen some test reports already.22:06
mathiazdendrobates: but we need to wait for the package to be published to file bug reports.22:06
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
ScottKsommer: No.22:06
sommerScottK: cool22:07
mathiazsoren: what's new on the virtualization front ?22:07
sorenvirtio in the installer is this close: |<--->|22:08
sorenThe code is done, it just needs a fresh debian-installer upload to enable it. That's pretty cool.22:08
sorenopen-vm-tools will be updated as soon as this meeting is over, so I can get to upload it.22:09
sorendnsmasq-base and netcat-openbsd landed, so now we have dhcp/dns for virtual networks and remote management without any fuss.22:09
sorenThat's the highlights, I believe.22:09
mathiazsoren: great.22:10
mathiazjdstrand: ufw ?22:10
nijabasoren: what about vm-builder?22:10
sorenWill upload tomorrow.22:10
jdstrandufw 0.12 has been accepted in to main22:10
jronnblomsoren: do you fix the problem with loading the vmxnet in open-vm-tools? Or perhaps we shoudl discuss this privately after the meeting?22:10
nijaba\o/ x 222:10
jdstrandsommer has been updating documentation22:10
nealmcbsoren: and you're a cnet news authority :-)22:11
sorenjronnblom: Er... I'm unfamiliar with "the problem with loading vmxnet in open-vm-tools". AFter the meeting sounds good.22:11
nijabasoren is a MOVW ;)22:11
zulheh soren is a rockstar22:11
mathiazsoren: you've also been doing some work on iscsi ?22:12
nijabamaster of virtual world22:12
sorenI have. It's been integrated into the installer (pass iscsi=true to the kernel, and you win).22:12
sorennijaba: Ah. :)22:12
sorenIt's sort of blocked on new installer as well (kernel support).22:12
mathiazzul: news on xen ?22:13
zulmathiaz: we fixed a libxen issue and getting some bug reports about things22:13
mathiazdendrobates: did you get a chance to test libvirt with xen ?22:13
zuland which I will fix of course22:13
dendrobatesnope.  there were version issues.22:14
dendrobatesI had eto move on.22:14
dendrobatesI can test it with the new libvirt that soren just uploaded.22:14
mathiazon the ldap front, jdstrand has been filing bug about openldap2.422:15
dendrobatesafter FF.22:15
mathiazand things are been fixed by slangasek.22:15
mathiazjdstrand: is there a lot of failure left in openldap 2.4 ?22:15
jdstrandTLSCipherSuite needs to be migrated as gnutls does is differently than openssl22:16
jdstrandif you leave that out, TLS/SSL works fine22:16
jdstrandI found where SASL was failing, and slangasek said he fixed it22:16
mathiazwhat about migration ?22:17
jdstrandthe only thing left is proxy cache fails our qa-regression-tests22:17
jdstrandmathiaz: with openssl, you can do TLSCipherSuite HIGH22:17
mathiazare there issues in upgrading from the openldap version in dapper ?22:17
jdstrandgnutls doesn't understand 'HIGH', but it has its own adjectives22:18
jdstrandmathiaz: if people use TLSCipherSuite, TLS/SSL will not work22:18
jdstrandand openldap may not start, depending22:18
mathiazjdstrand: is slangasek dealing with this case in the postinst script ?22:19
jdstrandoh, you also need the new ssl-cert which fixes the snakoil certificate for use with gnutls (IIUC)22:19
jdstrandslangasek is handling that, and is aware of the issues.22:19
jdstrandmathiaz: I am not sure of his plans22:19
mathiazso let's finish this review with documentation.22:20
mathiazsommer: how is the server guide going ?22:20
sommergood good... should have extensions for the bacula, virt, open-likewise sections22:20
sommerjdstrand mentioned the ufw section... which turned out to be an overhaul of the firewall section22:21
jdstrandsommer has done a great job22:21
mathiazsommer: is there a place where the latest dev version of the guide available ?22:21
* jdstrand thanks sommer :)22:21
ivokssoomer always does a great job22:22
sommerjdstrand: thanks22:22
mathiazsommer: how do you think managing reviews ?22:22
ivoksdoh.. sommer too :)22:22
sommermathiaz: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-hardy22:22
mathiazsommer: right - that's the source.22:22
mathiazsommer: I was think about an online version.22:22
sommermathiaz: right... nope there isn't currently a HTML version22:22
mathiazsommer: so that we can ask people to go over the server guide and reviewing it.22:22
nealmcbis there any sort of ubuntu server faq?22:23
mathiazsommer: it would lower the barrier for doc reviewing.22:23
sommerthere are some bugs about doc.u.c being out of date22:23
mathiaznealmcb: not that I know of.22:23
nijabasommer: what is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ ?  it shows 8.04 at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/preparing-to-install.html22:23
mathiaznealmcb: what would you put in it ?22:23
nealmcbmathiaz: the sorts of questions that come up on irc and the forums22:23
mathiaznealmcb: isn't that what the factoids are for ?22:24
nealmcbit is such a common term (faq) that we might benefit from having a wiki page of that sort22:24
sommernijaba: probably a DocBook macro that inserted the latest release number into the HTML22:24
mathiaznealmcb: right. But a faq targeted at users, not developers.22:24
nealmcbI don't think we have a list of server-related factoids anywhere, and having that as a google target might help22:24
nealmcbmathiaz: right22:25
mathiaznealmcb: that would be great.22:25
mathiaznealmcb: however we'd have a way to figure out what are the most common questions asked on irc, ml forums.22:26
nealmcbfaulkes-: collecting the forum input on the wiki and pointing folks at the wiki for faqs would be great22:26
sommerI can ping Mathew East about the status of doc.u., I think he was given shell access22:26
mathiazlet's see how we can deal with the content coming from the forums and integrate it into a faq.22:26
mathiazsommer: that would be great, especially during reviews.22:27
faulkes-nealmcb: noted22:27
mathiazsommer: could you send an email to ubuntu-doc about this ?22:27
sommermathiaz: sure22:27
mathiaz[ACTION] sommer to send an email to ubuntu-doc about having an html version of the latest server guide online available during reviews.22:28
MootBotACTION received:  sommer to send an email to ubuntu-doc about having an html version of the latest server guide online available during reviews.22:28
mathiazI think that's all for the Roadmap.22:28
mathiaz[TOPIC] Any Other Business22:28
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business22:28
mathiazanyone want to add something ?22:29
nealmcbgood meeting!  Seems like hardy is coming along pretty well - congrats, folks!22:30
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Forum Council Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team
ubuntugeekHowdy all22:30
nijabathanks mathiaz22:30
ubuntugeekMike, Matthew.. howdy22:30
ubuntugeekGlad you could make it matthew22:31
forumsmatthewhow is everyone?22:31
TechnoVikingdoes the server team need anymore time?22:31
mathiazTechnoViking: not.22:31
mathiazjust a minute22:31
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.22:31
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.22:31
mathiaznext week, same place, same time ?22:32
* nealmcb nods22:32
mathiazok - great then22:32
mathiazthanks all.22:32
MootBotMeeting finished at 22:32.22:32
sommerthanks mathiaz, later all22:32
faulkes-good meeting, later all22:33
TechnoVikingok everyone ready?22:33
forumsmatthewall set here22:33
TechnoViking===== FC Meeting Start ====22:33
TechnoVikinghey jdong22:33
ubuntugeekWell our agenda is pretty light.. The first Item has already been done.22:34
forumsmatthewI haven't even had a chance to look22:34
forumsmatthewwhat is item two?22:34
forumsmatthewthank you, vorian22:35
ubuntugeekItem two is an idea I got from another forum to differentiate staff posts from normal users. It seems to work pretty.. It might not work for us but its worth discussing I think22:35
jdongubuntugeek: I think it is important to distinguish staff in a simple manner22:35
* PriceChild waves22:35
vorianubuntugeek: i like the sound of it22:35
forumsmatthewI can see how it would be useful for moderation tasks, but I don't know that I would like it all the time22:36
jdongbut I think anything done to the post text can be faked by users, or appear too annoying22:36
forumsmatthewcan it be toggled on/off?22:36
jdongforumsmatthew: like a "staff hat"? :)22:36
forumsmatthewyeah, something like that22:36
ubuntugeekWell I was thinking the text color would stay the same, but the background of the post would be different.22:36
TechnoVikinggood point matthew22:36
PriceChildI wouldn't like it unless it was "optin" on a post by post basis.22:37
forumsmatthewwe always wear our red name badges and have custom user titles/icons, so people pretty much know we are staff22:37
forumsmatthewthe different background sounds neat22:37
forumsmatthewI'm not sure it would be universally useful, though22:37
forumsmatthewdo you have a link to a forum or two where you have seen it in use?22:38
ubuntugeekSounds good, was just a suggestion..22:38
forumsmatthewubuntugeek, you know I love new toys...22:38
forumsmatthewespecially shiny ones22:38
ubuntugeekWell everyone generally doesnt like it, I can tell.. So no reason to put work into something people wont like :)22:38
vorianI like the idea22:39
ubuntugeekOr find usefull22:39
forumsmatthewthat's probably true, though22:39
forumsmatthewI do like the toys and shiny stuff, but this one doesn't seem real valuable to me22:40
forumsmatthewfor our purposes22:40
ubuntugeekanything else?22:40
forumsmatthewnow, in another context...22:40
forumsmatthewI don't have anything else22:40
forumsmatthewand I'm tired and in ramble mode...22:40
ubuntugeekmike you plan on replying to my private msg?22:40
forumsmatthewblah blah blah blah blah22:41
TechnoVikingwhen did you send it?22:41
ubuntugeeklike 10 mins ago22:41
ubuntugeekdoesn't matter..22:41
ubuntugeekAnyways, I got nothing.  I got vb3.7 setup so we can start testing that. I'll post the link22:41
TechnoVikingI got got out of a meeting, and went directly into irc22:41
forumsmatthewubuntugeek, PM me the link and I'll start testing in the morning22:42
TechnoVikingUG: did not get the msg, sorry22:42
vorianjust as a matter of record, ajmorris is now the team leader of the Unanswered Posts team.22:42
ubuntugeekWill do.. I'll post it in the staff area22:42
ubuntugeekAlso  faulkes is a moderator in the server platform forum.22:43
ubuntugeekthe FC was CC'd on the email22:43
vorianis mssever still considered a team leader on the UA team?22:44
TechnoVikingFYI, I think Jono is working on a dov for membership approval for team councils22:44
TechnoVikingdov =doc22:44
ubuntugeekSounds good Mike22:44
vorianshould we set a meeting time/date for next month?22:45
ubuntugeekI should just mention really quick.. So everyone is prepared, when we launch the upgrade to vb 3.7 categories will be consolidated and we will be moving to a thread prefix/tagging system.22:45
forumsmatthewcool. Is this version better (less server intensive) than the earlier version of tagging we tried?22:46
forumsmatthewIf so, it should certainly help with searching issues22:46
ubuntugeekMarch, 12th 22:30 ?22:46
forumsmatthewlooks good to me22:46
ubuntugeekThe functionality is built into vb3.7 so its not a hack22:46
TechnoVikinggood with me22:47
voriancool, I'll get it set up then :)22:47
ubuntugeekAwesome thanks vorian!22:48
forumsmatthewthank you22:48
ubuntugeekAnything else? Next month I would like to discuss the vb3.7 after everyone has had time to test it out22:48
vorianit's been eerily quiet lately :)22:48
vorianHardy is gonna rock22:49
ubuntugeekAnd discuss how we can remove some of the hacked in functions and replace them with core vb functions22:49
TechnoVikingnothing here22:49
vorianso this next cycle will be fun22:49
forumsmatthewI will start playing with 3.7 asap...probably tomorrow22:49
forumsmatthewI predict the forums will continue to grow at an increasing rate22:53
ubuntugeekWell thats a given :P22:53
TechnoViking==== FC Meeting End ====22:53
ubuntugeekThanks all.. until next time.22:53
forumsmatthewcatch you later!22:54
TechnoVikinglater all22:54
PriceChildwhen's 3.7 being released?22:54
PriceChildis there a date?22:54
ubuntugeekStill in beta..  Beta 422:54
forumsmatthewI need sleep...see you all later22:54
ubuntugeekWe'll probably upgrade before its released as we have in the past. It depends on how it goes with testing.22:54
ubuntugeekSee ya all later.22:55
=== suehtnil1P is now known as Palintheus

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