[02:24] <bmk789> @schedule EST
[02:24] <ubotu> Schedule for EST: 13 Feb 02:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 08:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 15:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team
[03:01] <keescook> @schedule PST
[03:02] <keescook> @schedule US/Pacific
[03:02] <ubotu> Schedule for US/Pacific: 12 Feb 23:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 05:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 12:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 13:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 14:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 06:00: Desktop Team
[03:02] <keescook> sweet
[03:04] <emgent> :)
[03:05] <emgent> @schedule rome
[03:05] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 08:00: Platform Team | 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team
[03:05] <emgent> cool
[04:08] <scott21> register cttnmth21
[04:13] <scott21>      /msg nickserv set hide email on
[05:54]  * calc thought staying up to 1am would be easy, heh
[05:54]  * calc thinks he should take a nap next time
[06:43]  * bryce hands calc some coffee and toothpicks for the eyelids
[06:56] <calc_> hi
[06:56] <evand> good morning
[06:57] <bryce> heya
[06:57] <TheMuso> Hi guys.
[06:57]  * slangasek waves
[06:57] <ArneGoetje> hi
[06:57] <cjwatson> good morning
[06:59]  * ogra yawns
[06:59] <asac> hi
[06:59] <TheMuso> Now you guys know how I felt the last couple of weeks. :)
[06:59] <doko> good morning (although I have to leave in 10min)
[06:59] <cjwatson> doko: ping?
[06:59] <cjwatson> aha
[06:59] <cjwatson> oh, and of course you're on vacation
[06:59] <slangasek> TheMuso: you had a nasty sinus cold the last couple of weeks?  My condolences :)
[07:00] <cjwatson> right, let's get started then
[07:00] <cjwatson> first off, congratulations to TheMuso for making ubuntu-core-dev last night
[07:00]  * ogra applauds
[07:00]  * asac hugs TheMuso 
[07:00] <cjwatson> this and others brings ubuntu-core-dev past the 50 mark
[07:00] <ogra> yay
[07:00] <evand> congrats!
[07:00] <TheMuso> Is that 50 active core-devs?
[07:00] <slangasek> \o/
[07:01] <ArneGoetje> congrats!
[07:01] <bryce> congrats TheMuso
[07:01] <TheMuso> Thanks folks.
[07:01] <cjwatson> TheMuso: I'm not sure I'd go THAT fra
[07:01] <cjwatson> far
[07:01]  * TheMuso scores. :p
[07:02] <cjwatson> looking down the list, I think maybe 45 or so are what I'd call active
[07:02] <TheMuso> Was just wondering, I didn't mean for people to check.
[07:03] <cjwatson> so, feature freeze
[07:03] <ogra> gah, he said the bad word
[07:04] <cjwatson> we have one day to go, and it's time to look down the list and figure out what's done, what should get an exception for some reason, and what we should defer
[07:04] <ArneGoetje> exception until when?
[07:05] <calc> april 17?
[07:05] <calc> ;-)
[07:05] <TheMuso> lol
[07:05] <ogra> only for openoffice
[07:05] <cjwatson> exceptions are usually for where there's a clear plan to completion (and usually a fixed end date), low risk, and usually not for too long since they eat into time available for other work
[07:06]  * evand had been thinking FF was Friday.  Argh.
[07:06] <cjwatson> evand: last thing Thursday, in my book
[07:06] <evand> cjwatson: you're correct, I had been running off of false memory rather than checking the wiki.
[07:06] <ogra> valentine freeze
[07:06] <ogra> easy menmonic
[07:06] <evand> heh
[07:07] <cjwatson> let's run down the roster; I hope folks have a summary prepared
[07:07] <cjwatson> asac: you first
[07:07] <doko_> cjwatson: please me first
[07:08] <asac> cjwatson: ffox transition as main browser should be done by that time. last upstream version not :)
[07:08] <asac> network-manager started to prepare 0.6.6 (0.6.6 RC1 has been released yesterday) ... so I assume we want an exception for that as well
[07:09] <cjwatson> oh, sorry
[07:09] <cjwatson> doko_: yes, go ahead
[07:09]  * asac holds back
[07:10] <doko_> toolchain: completed (outstanding is gfortran transition for universe; do we want to propose that for MOTU)?
[07:10] <doko_> dist-compiler-flags: uploaded, first breakage fixed.
[07:11] <cjwatson> happy for universe transitions to extend past feature freeze if MOTU are happy with the scope of the work
[07:11] <doko_> robust-python-upgrades: will probably not upload tomorrow, but on Friday/Saturday
[07:11] <doko_> java-for-main: still based on gcj, discussions about openjdk are going on
[07:14] <cjwatson> slangasek: are you ok with the python upgrade work stretching out an extra day or two?
[07:14] <slangasek> yes, I'm comfortable with that
[07:15] <doko_> thanks
[07:15] <cjwatson> doko_: ok, go :-)
[07:15] <doko_> sorry, have to leave
[07:15] <asac> bye doko_
[07:16] <asac> ok i think i should continue?
[07:16] <cjwatson> argh, the problem with this time is that it intersects with my mirror update ;-)
[07:16] <cjwatson> asac: yes please
[07:16] <asac> ok ... so network-manager might see a new upstrewam version after FF (upstream plans to release by end of Feb), but its merely a bug-fix release
[07:16] <cjwatson> I think we knew in advance that we probably wouldn't have fx3 final by FF
[07:17] <asac> and our network-manager already carries a load of cherry-picks that would go into 0.6.6
[07:17] <cjwatson> oh, new upstream in the 0.6 series?
[07:17] <asac> yeah ... unexpected. appeared after some mailing list discussion
[07:18] <asac> ubufox: we will have an ubufox for firefox 3 in time for FF (its completed). If we want to get a shiny new system-extension integration we need a FF exception. sorry, but firefox code didn't have the required bits to work on this seriously until recently.
[07:18] <asac> but its in-house development ... if that matters
[07:18] <cjwatson> system-extension => teaching firefox how to install extensions that are packaged as .debs
[07:19] <asac> right
[07:19] <asac> you will see what i mean with the beta 3 upload
[07:19] <cjwatson> it would be a regression from gutsy if we didn't have that
[07:19] <asac> you can now search for extensions in the addons-dialog
[07:19] <cjwatson> we marketed that quite strongly
[07:19] <asac> cjwatson: read what i said: we will have ubufox with the same featurees for FF
[07:19] <asac> e.g. you can now click on the lnk that opens package manager
[07:20] <cjwatson> oh, what does "shiny new" indicate then?
[07:20] <asac> cjwatson: that our package search is directly integrated in their addons search
[07:20] <slangasek> and how far along is that effort today?
[07:21] <asac> this depends heavily on my over all work load
[07:22] <asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/Add-ons.png
[07:22] <asac> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/AddonsResults.png
[07:23] <asac> i think it will take a week of work if nothing else pops up and some upstream code changes
[07:24] <asac> to make our extensions display in the same list
[07:24] <cjwatson> as opposed to in the separate "Ubuntu Addons" tab?
[07:25] <asac> no ... as opposed to a link in the bottom that opens the package manager (like what we have in ffox 2)
[07:25] <cjwatson> ah, right
[07:25] <asac> the other option is to display the package manager in a separate tab
[07:25] <asac> i evaluated that as well, but the amount of work should be more or less the same
[07:26] <asac> -> http://people.ubuntu.com/~asac/AddonsEmbedded.png (thats the gnome-app-install as a plugin prototype)
[07:27] <cjwatson> my experience with using xembed for things has generally not been great in the long run, so that wouldn't be my favoured option
[07:27]  * evand chuckles over gparted
[07:28] <asac> yeah ... the right way is to integrate our search results in the main search io
[07:28] <asac> imo
[07:28] <cjwatson> asac: how are things looking for you for the bug-fix part of the cycle? obviously my main concern is that further feature work eats into your time for stabilisation
[07:28] <cjwatson> so it depends on our comfort level with that
[07:29] <slangasek> it sounds to me like it would be better to postpone these UI enhancements, given that there's a fair amount of work left to be done and you're likely to have your hands full with ff3 and NM, without also having to worry about fixing bugs in the new UI
[07:30] <slangasek> but perhaps I misjudge, and updates to newer FF3 upstream releases will be a walk in the park :-)
[07:30] <asac> i agree to some degree. my priority is: fix xulrunner + NM issues
[07:30] <asac> only then do these UI enhancements to ubufox
[07:30] <asac> slangasek: updates won't be a problem
[07:31] <asac> the main problem is that epiphany upstream refuses to work on anything mozilla related nowadays so i have to do all the upstream work to fix the major blockers
[07:31] <cjwatson> how are the rest of the xulrunner issues looking?
[07:31] <cjwatson> I gather OOo is nearly there
[07:31] <asac> cjwatson: xulrunner looks decent imo
[07:32] <asac> our packaging rocks for ffox 3 and xulrunner ... only thing that might cause work is that upstream has not yet committed to freeze api/abi ... so there might be respins needed
[07:33] <cjwatson> do we have a means of detecting ABI changes, or are we reliant on people reporting breakage?
[07:34] <asac> breakage for now ... but we see breakage early due to ffox/xul split
[07:35] <cjwatson> ok, I think we're going to have to move on, let's come back to ubufox UI changes if we get a chance later
[07:35] <cjwatson> thanks for the details
[07:35] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: you're up
[07:35] <asac> thanks
[07:35] <ArneGoetje> langpack-o-matic is ready for merge and testing
[07:36] <ArneGoetje> I disabled the package split for zh-cn and zh-tw though...
[07:36] <ArneGoetje> that means the installer won't need to be changed for now
[07:37] <ArneGoetje> I will ping pitti later to let him take a look
[07:37] <cjwatson> ok, has pitti looked at any of it so far?
[07:37] <ArneGoetje> seems not... he let me do the testing on my machine... :)
[07:38] <cjwatson> heh
[07:38] <ArneGoetje> however, locally it works.
[07:38] <cjwatson> ok, that really ought to go into the archive today
[07:38] <ArneGoetje> ok
[07:39] <cjwatson> similarly with cjk-unifonts work?
[07:40] <ArneGoetje> I didn't have time however to pursue on the language-selector changes and the font-selector though... so for language-selector would probably need an exception. font-selector maybe needs to be deferred...
[07:40] <ArneGoetje> cjk-unifonts is almost ready for upload.
[07:40] <cjwatson> font-selector was a bit of a late addition anyway, nice though it would be
[07:41] <ArneGoetje> I'm currently fixing some bitmaps in the uming font and will then do the packaging
[07:41] <cjwatson> the language-selector work seems needed in order to take full advantage of the language pack changes
[07:41] <ArneGoetje> I expect to upload the new package tonight
[07:41] <cjwatson> which I think is something we want so we have flexibility later
[07:41] <ArneGoetje> yes
[07:41] <cjwatson> how much more is to be done there?
[07:42] <ArneGoetje> I'm not sure... need to consult with mvo
[07:42] <ArneGoetje> (he wrote the code, I'm just a coding newbie)
[07:44] <cjwatson> ok, I'll grab mvo later on today and find out what's happening there, if you don't beat me to it
[07:44] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: thanks
[07:44] <cjwatson> bryce: ?
[07:44] <bryce> ok
[07:44] <ArneGoetje> ok, I will ask him too
[07:45] <bryce> * autoconfigure-monitor-frequency:   100% done.
[07:45] <bryce> * multi-monitor-config:              75% done.
[07:45] <bryce> * x-testing-infrastructure:          25% done.  Not FF-critical
[07:45] <bryce> * monitor-settings-database-online:  Postponed to Hardy+1
[07:45] <bryce> * hardy-console:                     Reassigned
[07:45] <bryce> multi-monitor-config (aka Xrandr GUI) is coming along well, but will need a few more days until it's ready for upload.  Relatively recent screenshot:  http://bryceharrington.org/files/screenrez_9.png
[07:45] <bryce> Part 1 was extending libxrandr; this is done.  I talked to Keith Packard about taking it upstream; he says he'd rather see it implemented as an independent library.  That's going to take another 2-3 days though.  I decided to press on with getting something functional, and will come back to that later.
[07:45] <bryce> Part 2 is the GUI itself.  This is about half done, and will take a few more days before its functional enough to be uploaded.  I'm hoping to get here by Thursday, but it might take another day or two beyond that.
[07:45] <bryce> Part 3 is basically lots of testing against different configs.  :-)
[07:46] <bryce> x-testing-infrastructure has no components that need uploaded to Hardy, so I've postponed focusing on it for the time being.
[07:46] <bryce> There is some remaining work to do with input-hotplug and hal support.  Timo is going to look into what's needed and will let me know if my help is needed there.
[07:47] <bryce> Inkscape's pre-release has been uploaded.  Final version will come in 2-3 weeks.  Inkscape's in feature freeze, so it'll just be bug fixes from here on out.
[07:48] <cjwatson> I'm concerned about input hotplug and hal; if that's changing, we need notice as it's going to be moderately complex to handle in the installer
[07:48] <cjwatson> I think at this point we should probably stick with the input configuration mechanisms we've got, unless it lands by tomorrow
[07:48] <bryce> cjwatson: okay
[07:49] <bryce> cjwatson: I will check this with timo
[07:50] <bryce> all the other stuff on my todo list is either bugs or other stuff that can be postponed until after freeze.
[07:50] <cjwatson> multi-monitor-config is sexy enough in potential that I'd like to allow a few more days
[07:50] <bryce> great, that'll help a lot
[07:51]  * slangasek agrees
[07:51] <bryce> I don't know why someone else hasn't already done this work, but it's definitely something that everyone has been expecting for a while
[07:52] <cjwatson> I'll have to poke mjg59 about the hardy-console kernel bit again, bit concerned about that
[07:52] <cjwatson> let's move on
[07:52] <cjwatson> bryce: thanks
[07:53] <cjwatson> calc: you're up
[07:53]  * bryce nods
[07:53] <calc> lzma is pretty much ready aiui, i uploaded test OOo lzma source today
[07:53] <calc> i think they may end up rolling it out tomorrow, but i am not certain
[07:54] <cjwatson> kiko has told me they'll cherry-pick the required LP change rather than having us break feature freeze fo rit
[07:54] <cjwatson> for it
[07:54] <calc> i am working on converting OOo over to use xulrunner-1.9 which will be uploaded along with the lzma fix (hopefully)
[07:54] <cjwatson> (and with that I think I'm definitely all out of LP team credit)
[07:55] <calc> s/fix/usage/
[07:55] <calc> heh
[07:55] <asac> calc: great.
[07:55] <cjwatson> ooo-langpacks hasn't happened, right?
[07:55] <calc> cjwatson: no
[07:55] <calc> cjwatson: deferred to splitting of source
[07:56] <calc> which i will be concentrating on more as i get more time
[07:57] <cjwatson> ok
[07:57] <calc> also working with hsqldb upstream on a patch to correct the security misfeature, i verified the versions he wanted to use work and just waiting to get the patch from him at this point
[07:57] <cjwatson> for cd-reduction we'll have to see how things look once the alternates have lzma packaging
[07:57] <calc> yes
[07:57] <cjwatson> that's good news
[07:58] <calc> once we have lzma done i can go about adding lzma compression to various bits if you would like
[07:58] <cjwatson> did you get the useless en_GB bits stripped out of the English langpacks?
[07:58] <cjwatson> that we identified in Cambridge
[07:58] <calc> i'll have to go back and check that to make sure
[07:58] <calc> i think i did, but i don't recall for certain at the moment
[07:58]  * calc adds that to his todo list to verify
[08:00] <calc> i think that is all, but i may be leaving out something
[08:00] <cjwatson> that one looked like low-hanging fruit, so we should grab it if we can
[08:00] <cjwatson> calc: ok, thanks
[08:00] <cjwatson> evand: your turn
[08:00] <calc> yea, i will check it before uploading the next set of debs
[08:00] <evand>  * UbuntuSpec:ubiquity-preserve-home : Major bug needs to be fixed and
[08:00] <evand> tested, but otherwise done.
[08:00] <evand>  * UbuntuSpec:hardy-ubiquity-usability : Need to finish merging and
[08:00] <evand> refining new tzmap.  Keyboard selection, time estimates, and auto-resize
[08:00] <evand> text need to be done.  These are smaller tasks.
[08:00] <evand>  * UbuntuSpec:hardy-ubiquity-reliability : Need to finish "repeat steps
[08:00] <evand> on failure" and merge in file copy integrity check work.  Need to add
[08:00] <evand> retry dialog for the bootloader and finish porting the rest of the
[08:00] <evand> bootloader work to Kubuntu.  Insufficient file space check needs polish.
[08:00] <evand>  * UbuntuSpec:encrypted-filesystems : Deferred, discussed at previous
[08:00] <evand> meeting.
[08:00] <evand>  * UbuntuSpec:installer-for-windows : Done, just a matter of fixing
[08:00] <evand> bugs.
[08:00] <evand>  * UbuntuSpec:gobuntu-hardy : Haven't spoke to Kurt about the status.
[08:01] <evand> Will follow up for next meeting.
[08:01] <evand> The bug in ubiquity-preserve-home wont take long to fix.  But I'd like to test it thoroughly before uploading that again.
[08:01] <evand> My biggest concern is the new tzmap.  If possible, I'd like to have the weekend to finish it.  I can make ubiquity switch between it and the old tzmap with a flag, so it can be easily backed out, if necessary.
[08:02] <evand> The rest should be doable by tomorrow night.
[08:02] <cjwatson> with the lack of development work on Gobuntu, we may have to do something drastic there
[08:02] <cjwatson> (but that's not your problem)
[08:04] <cjwatson> slangasek: what do you think about the timezone map UI changes? I'm too close to it. The reason it's being considered is that it's what's needed to make the installer fit in smaller screen sizes, which is a major source of confusion and bugs
[08:04] <evand> anything I didn't mention is done or about to be uploaded
[08:04] <cjwatson> though I think the things Evan mentioned under reliability are larger sources of bugs and higher priority
[08:05] <evand> indeed, that's exactly why I want to push the tzmap into the weekend -- so I can spend the remaining time on the reliabilty spec
[08:05] <cjwatson> evand: the map doesn't have to be in its absolute final form for FF, of course, just good enough
[08:05] <evand> well, that will happen either way
[08:06] <evand> cjwatson: ok
[08:06] <slangasek> it sounds like the higher-prio stuff is well in hand, and I agree that the TZ map UI is a big deal for usability on smaller screens
[08:06] <slangasek> so I think an exception through the weekend is fair
[08:06] <evand> fantastic, thanks slangasek
[08:07] <cjwatson> ok
[08:07] <cjwatson> evand: thanks for the hard work on installer-for-windows, in particular
[08:08] <evand> you're welcome, though I mostly enjoyed it.  I think we're set to grab a whole new class of users with that feature.
[08:08] <cjwatson> I should slot in myself at this point
[08:08] <cjwatson> hardy-bootloader-review: Most of the hard work done; still need to make menu item changes and apply some visual tweaks. Should be able to do most of the rest today.
[08:08] <cjwatson> apt-authentication-reliability (mostly mvo): done
[08:08] <cjwatson> networkless-installation-fixes (mostly mvo): done except for adding a progress bar to apt-setup for the 'apt-get update' stage, which was already tried in Debian and caused some problems; this probably won't happen
[08:08] <cjwatson> and of course the seed reorganisation, which happened on Monday night and should relieve us from merge busywork in future; that was also a prerequisite for edubuntu-addon, coming up later ...
[08:09] <cjwatson> TheMuso: anything from you?
[08:09] <TheMuso> initramfs error handling: Essentially done minus the update-manager part, but waiting on kees to get back to me re implementatino and mdadm, however he is still catching up on email, so this may not happen for a while, and I don't think this is critical.
[08:09] <TheMuso> However, there is a new merge of initramfs-tools and lvm2 that need to be done, and I don't feel up to doing what appear to be rather big merges at this point, so if someone wants to do them, I can pass on my spec work to add to the packages.
[08:09] <TheMuso> Still looking at dmraid, and doing testing, however since its universe, can easily push it in as an addition later, or at the most, get an exception for it for a few days, once I've had a chance to install, integrate into initramfs error handling, and test.
[08:09] <cjwatson> TheMuso: first step is to get whatever parts of the feature work you're comfortable with so far uploaded
[08:10] <cjwatson> it doesn't all have to go in one giant upload
[08:10] <TheMuso> If we are keen on possibly gettind dmraid in, there is also a new upstream version that might be worth uploading. I can take cae of that if we want it.
[08:10] <TheMuso> cjwatson: ok
[08:10] <cjwatson> on initramfs-tools merging, it's rather late and we may want to consider just backporting the stuff we need
[08:10] <cjwatson> dmraid will need to go to main if it's going to be useful
[08:10] <TheMuso> Fair call. What about lvm? From what I remember, there is a new upstream version.
[08:11] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Yeah I know re dmraid, which is why I'm willing to help test and integrate with error handling.
[08:11] <cjwatson> TheMuso: once you have some basic testing of dmraid done, would you deal with the main inclusion review? now that you're -core-dev you can take that over from evand :-)
[08:11] <TheMuso> As I happen to have the hardware that makes use of fakeraid.
[08:11] <cjwatson> s/review/report/
[08:11] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Sure, can do.
[08:11] <cjwatson> what's the reasoning for looking at the new upstream of lvm2?
[08:12] <TheMuso> But I don't think its worth doing till we've got the partman-dmraid bugs worked out.
[08:12] <TheMuso> Oh I thought it may be desirable thats all.
[08:12] <TheMuso> I didn't dig any deeper, was just looking through what Debian has done since our version.
[08:12] <cjwatson> only if there are compelling improvements
[08:13] <TheMuso> Fair enough. Unless someone wants to look into it, I say just leave it.
[08:13] <cjwatson> ok, thanks
[08:14] <cjwatson> ogra: ?
[08:14] <TheMuso> np
[08:14] <ogra> classmate:
[08:14] <ogra>  * image creator -> freeze releveant stuff (packages) done, final changes on builder scripts pending until packages are in the archive
[08:14] <ogra>  * usb suspend kernel fixes -> no feedback from amitk yet, will hunt him down this week
[08:14] <ogra>  * theft protection -> behind on that, will need some more days ...
[08:14] <ogra> .
[08:14] <ogra> edubuntu-content-server:
[08:14] <ogra>  * behind, needs exception (doable until the weekend i think)
[08:14] <ogra> .
[08:14] <ogra> edubuntu-addon-cd:
[08:14] <ogra>  * seed integration between edubuntu and ubuntu ongoing
[08:14] <ogra>  * debian-cd changes pending
[08:14] <ogra> .
[08:14] <ogra> ltsp:
[08:14] <ogra>  * upstream reorganization in ldm and ltspfs are finished as well now, new versions packaged
[08:14] <ogra>  * a majority of the open LP bugs closed (still 38 open though)
[08:14] <ogra>  * ldm CK integration will still need some love on the CK side (local vs. non-local sessions)
[08:14] <ogra> .
[08:14] <ogra> edubuntu-and-italc (classroom management):
[08:14] <ogra>  * not officially approved boston spec stgraber worked on with massive success, he reworked the whole italc UI, made it compatible with ltsp5 as well as recent VNC with massive upstream participation (not something that eats much of my personal time apart from testing the package, but that huge effort should be mentioned somewhere :) )
[08:14] <ogra> .
[08:14] <ogra> packages:
[08:14] <ogra>  sabayon and tuxtype had new releases that incorporate plenty of fixes i'd like in hardy, so i'd like to ask for freeze exceptions for these (both are edubuntu packages, sabayon follows the gnome schedule loosely)
[08:15] <ogra> I'm mortified about the theft protection thing, it somehow slipped off all my todo lists and when i remembered it last night i recognized the upload from intel is broken ... :(
[08:15] <calc> my connection is bouncing :-\
[08:15] <cjwatson> theft protection is only going to appear in classmate, so feature freeze only applies insofar as slipping it takes away from your bug-fixing time
[08:16] <ogra> well, i'd like to not have ppa's in the classmate sources.list
[08:16] <ogra> oh
[08:16] <cjwatson> ogra: I'll grab you today and we can do the edubuntu-addon integration
[08:16] <ogra> i misread
[08:16] <ogra> oki
[08:16] <ogra> i have edubuntu meeting at 12:00 UTC
[08:16] <cjwatson> ogra: openssh CK integration is needed for ltsp, right?
[08:17] <ogra> right
[08:17] <cjwatson> so I had probably better upload that :)
[08:17] <ogra> well, the ssh side of things seems fine
[08:17] <ogra> with your patches
[08:17] <ogra> CK isnt yet
[08:17] <cjwatson> CK upstream acked it and seemed happy except that he thought the need to make the session explicitly active was a CK bug
[08:17] <cjwatson> but we can live with that
[08:18] <ogra> its not about active/inactive, its about local/nonlocal
[08:18] <cjwatson> ogra: please deal with sabayon and tuxtype in the usual way by mail to the RM if those are after FF
[08:18] <ogra> will do
[08:18] <ogra> the general concept of CK doesnt allow administrative tasks for non local sessions as i understood it
[08:19] <ogra> i have the session listed in CK and marked active
[08:19] <cjwatson> well, policykit disallows it
[08:19] <ogra> anyway, that doesnt belong here
[08:19] <cjwatson> CK doesn't inherently say anything about it
[08:19] <cjwatson> ogra: either way, right now, you can work around it by running the admin tools as root, which will tell policykit to just let you through already
[08:19] <ogra> ah, right, s/CK/polkit/
[08:20] <cjwatson> (I know I said earlier that that wasn't needed any more ...)
[08:20] <cjwatson> ogra: please make sure there's a bug filed on policykit about ltsp's needs here
[08:20] <ogra> right, well, i'd like it fixed somehow, but yes thast a feasable workaround
[08:20] <ogra> will do
[08:20] <cjwatson> ogra: what's left in edubuntu-content-server?
[08:22] <ogra> everything, but thats an afternoon fingertraining ... its actually only an empty metapackage for now with deps on the needed packages
[08:22] <ogra> i can probably do it today if i have time left
[08:24] <cjwatson> ogra: ok, thanks
[08:24] <cjwatson> slangasek: last up
[08:25] <slangasek> grub-configuration-improvements: in beta since shortly before alpha 4, have a couple of bugs yet to stomp out but looking good for FF
[08:26] <slangasek> larger-livefs: RT opened requesting more disk space on the livefs buildds to accomodate building another set of images for the DVDs; it seems unlikely that the buildd that's tight on disk space now will have more available by FF, but I expect to be able to have something in place for the other arch before Thursday
[08:26] <cjwatson> which arch is which there?
[08:27] <slangasek> double-checking
[08:27] <slangasek> i386 has space, amd64 does not
[08:28] <cjwatson> that's a good way round
[08:28]  * slangasek nods
[08:29] <slangasek> cjwatson: if we have it going for i386 in time, would it be ok to enable this for amd64 post-FF when the resources become available?
[08:29] <cjwatson> PAM auth we deferred, IIRC
[08:29] <slangasek> yes
[08:29] <cjwatson> I think so, if the idea is confirmed to work on i386
[08:29] <cjwatson> also, I would like to mutter vaguely about user percentages
[08:30] <cjwatson> anything else of concern to you for FF?
[08:30] <slangasek> heh
[08:30] <slangasek> not of personal concern, no :)
[08:31] <cjwatson> and I think ubotu is hinting to us that we're over-time
[08:32] <slangasek> seems to be :-)
[08:32] <cjwatson> all right, AOB?
[08:32] <asac> just quick for my actions from last week: i couldn't verify that icedtea java doesn't work work on amd64 ( i tested a pbuilder build first and then the bits in the archive and both worked fine for me). so lets review if we can send j2se1.4 to graveyard next week i guess
[08:32] <asac> for vpn plugins in main, soren said: "Last I checked, they never even had a proper release. I've always just grabbed a random svn checkout."
[08:32] <asac> so most likely this is a no go for main inclusion
[08:33] <evand> :( oh well.  Thanks for looking into it asac .
[08:33] <cjwatson> asac: was that just vpnc, or openvpn too?
[08:33] <asac> i could upstream upstream list on release policy though - if we want.
[08:33] <asac> cjwatson: for both iirc
[08:33] <cjwatson> asac: it's worth contacting them even if it doesn't make this release, I think
[08:33] <asac> ok will do
[08:34] <cjwatson> asac: did you get anything sorted with regard to 1.4's buildability?
[08:34] <cjwatson> you were to upload it to a PPA if you couldn't fix the build locally
[08:34] <asac> cjwatson: well given that i couldn't verify that icedtea doesn't work (which was the reason to look into resurrecting 1.4) i didn't put more resources in that
[08:35] <asac> was that a wrong judgement?
[08:35] <cjwatson> a useful extra data point, is all
[08:36] <asac> ok, i can upload ppa then (though i think we should seriously consider to refer to icedtea as our java plugin for amd64)
[08:37] <cjwatson> I would like to, I'm just conscious that people have evolved personal preferences here so it would be nice to have strong reasoning for dropping things
[08:37] <cjwatson> ok, anything else before we adjourn?
[08:37] <asac> well, i doubt that anyone would have preference for this broken 1.4 plugin. but anyway, will do
[08:38] <asac> ok
[08:38] <cjwatson> going ... going ...
[08:38] <asac> ;)
[08:39] <cjwatson> adjourned, thanks all
[08:39] <ogra> thanks
[08:39] <asac> thanks!
[08:39] <evand> thanks
[08:39] <ArneGoetje> thank
[08:39] <ArneGoetje> s
[08:39] <bryce> thanks
[08:39] <slangasek> thanks :)
[08:40] <TheMuso> thanks
[08:40]  * TheMuso goes to fetch dinner.
[11:32] <dholbach> @now
[11:32] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 13 2008, 11:32:03 - Next meeting: Education Team in 1 hour 27 minutes
[11:32] <dholbach> @schedule berlin
[11:32] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU
[12:00] <RichEd> hi ... who's here at the moment for the edubuntu/education meeting ?
[12:00] <emgent> @schedule rome
[12:00] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 13 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 23:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 05:00: MOTU
[12:01] <emgent> RichEd, wait one hour :P
[12:01] <RichEd> emgent ? any special reason why ?
[12:02] <emgent> RichEd,  13 Feb 14:00: Education Team
[12:02] <emgent> (13.00 in italy)
[12:03]  * stgraber waves
[12:03] <RichEd> strange ... looks like the fridge event was put in an hour late
[12:03] <RichEd> emgent: we normally kick off at 12h00 UTC ... which is now
[12:04] <emgent> @schedule
[12:04] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 13:00: Education Team | 13 Feb 20:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU
[12:04] <emgent> Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 13:00: Education Tea
[12:04] <emgent> seems to star at 13.00 UTC
[12:05] <RichEd> emgent: yep ... same as the fridge event ... looks like the event creator shifted the time out
[12:05]  * RichEd is confident about what time it *usually* is supposed to start since ogra and me manage the meetings :)
[12:05] <emgent> :)
[12:06] <RichEd> ogra: you around & about ?
[12:06]  * RichEd suggets then that we move the meeting to the *advertised* time slot
[12:08] <RichEd> == edubuntu/education meeting = will commence in an hour ==
[12:08] <RichEd> (sorry guys ... the fridge schedule was incorrect ... we'll stick to the schedule)
[13:00] <RichEd> [13:01] <RichEd> if you are here for the education meeting, say hi ... ogra does not seem to be available ... the meeting will probably be quite short with no tech
[13:05] <ogra> 'm here now
[13:05] <ogra> sorry, i worked through the night and had to get 3h of sleep, else i wouldnt survive the day
[13:05] <ogra> so, geature freeze is tomorrow
[13:06] <ogra> *feature even
[13:06] <RichEd> ogra: suspected that you were busy busy busy with that :)
[13:06] <ogra> yeah, i was ... last night
[13:07] <RichEd> quick tech report ? ... we will not keep you from either your desk or bed ... whichever calls the loudest
[13:07] <ogra> ltsp is the latest and greatest ... i could close about 30 bugs after i had the three packages sorted :)
[13:07] <RichEd> stgraber: you around ? and highvoltage ?
[13:07] <ogra> and there are more to come :)
[13:07] <ogra> italc is uploaded
[13:07] <RichEd> ogra: :) good stuff
[13:07] <RichEd> on both LTSP and italc
[13:07] <RichEd> thanks due to stgraber for his work on that
[13:08] <ogra> yeah
[13:08] <ogra> he's a hero
[13:08] <ogra> fro sabayon i already anounced that i'll file a freeze exception (will do so later today) so we can get the upstream fixes in
[13:09] <ogra> laser is concentrating on getting squeak in shape atm
[13:09]  * highvoltage is here
[13:09] <highvoltage> (thanks for the hilight)
[13:09] <ogra> which is also important for the OLPC guys
[13:09] <ogra> since they do a lot in squeak
[13:09] <ogra> (which is quite weird since sqeak isnt free)
[13:10] <highvoltage> (not yet anyway?)
[13:10] <ogra> well, seems it as four different copyright holders and licenses
[13:11] <highvoltage> ouch.
[13:11] <ogra> getting that sorted will take quite a while
[13:11] <alkisg> (thanks for italc! - a school teacher :))
[13:12] <highvoltage> :)
[13:12] <ogra> alkisg, as stated before, send flowers to stgraber, he deserves 100% credit for that :)
[13:12] <highvoltage> RichEd: could we start blogging/getting the word out about edubuntu being an add-on, and the benefits about that?
[13:12] <ogra> right
[13:13] <ogra> CD changes
[13:13] <RichEd> highvoltage: indeed you can ... and we'd like that very much
[13:13] <highvoltage> ok, cool
[13:13] <ogra> colin has changed germinate and the seed design over the last days
[13:13] <ogra> i cleaned up and prepared the seeds
[13:13] <RichEd> there *will* be some confusion, and concern at the changes ... so the more info we can get out in a human friendly discussion before we get to release, the better
[13:14] <ogra> during the next days we'll change the dependency chain for the metapackages and seeds and then we're ready to go
[13:14] <RichEd> what would also be good, is if someone could do a fresh install of ubuntu + add-on and blog about it, and compare it to the "old way"
[13:14] <ogra> so i finally expect to have the proper setup by alpha5
[13:14] <RichEd> especially an LTSP install
[13:15] <RichEd> ogra: at UDS you were concerned about the "extra workload" anticipated due to the change
[13:15] <RichEd> but lately, you've been saying it is in fact reduced
[13:15] <ogra> well
[13:15] <ogra> there is a lot extra workload ahead ...
[13:15] <ogra> there will be bugs
[13:16] <ogra> and time to fix them is short
[13:16] <RichEd> does this new structure work better for you now once it is bedded down
[13:16] <ogra> sure
[13:16] <RichEd> assuming the bugs are from the transition, which should be a once off leap to the left
[13:16] <ogra> all i'll have to maintain for edubuntu is a list of edu desktop packages and the server seed
[13:17] <ogra> (currently my seeds contain 14 files of which i maintain 6 ... one of them is nearly identical to ubuntu-desktop)
[13:18] <RichEd> and how is the "handover" of LTSP etc. is that now in a general distro area, or is it still effectively you ?
[13:18] <ogra> thats still effectively me and i guess it will stay that way
[13:19] <RichEd> and is it seen by the rest of the team as an "education special focus" or is it viewed more generally
[13:19] <ogra> as long as i'm involved upstream that closely it will at least
[13:19] <ogra> i dont think the rest of the team cares much about ltsp :)
[13:20] <ogra> so i dont expect them to haven an opinion about edu or not here ...
[13:20] <RichEd> okie
[13:21] <ogra> (dont forget they will look at it from a tech POV with the "oh, thats cool technology" view)
[13:22] <ogra> anyway, ltsp is still pending menu integration ... so that needs documentation (there are tw mails on the ML already with instructions)
[13:22] <ogra> s/tw/two/
[13:22] <ogra> the experience will be different for users until thats done
[13:23] <ogra> (vs edubuntu now)
[13:24] <ogra> btw tonights iso should be intresting to test ... i havent tested all changes yet :)
[13:25] <ogra> consolekit -> ldm integration is still not done ... worst case we'll need to run administrative apps with sudo on ltsp ... which is indeed quite suboptimal
[13:25] <RichEd> ^do we have many people helping you with testing ?
[13:25] <ogra> (consolekit is supposed to replace all the sudo stuff transaparently)
[13:25] <RichEd> or is the answer the usual "not enough"
[13:26] <ogra> well, there was not much to test wrt ltsp
[13:26] <ogra> the changes i made are already two milestone builds old :)
[13:26] <ogra> so the intresting time starts just now
[13:26] <ogra> and indeed i can never have enough testers :)
[13:29] <ogra> on the classmate front i uploaded the packages for all classmate specifics yesterday
[13:29] <ogra> tehy sit in the NEW queue atm
[13:29] <highvoltage> ogra: ooh, ooh, forgot to tell you
[13:29] <ogra> highvoltage, congrats btw
[13:29] <ogra> :)
[13:29] <highvoltage> ogra: my classmate arrived last Thursday
[13:29] <nixternal> mornin'!
[13:29] <ogra> (i'm reading my backlog )
[13:29] <ArM-eye> amon-ra everyone
[13:29] <highvoltage> ogra: so if you want me to do any testing or work on that front, just say and your wish is my command!
[13:30] <RichEd> hi nixternal ... how's the Edu chapter of the Big Book coming along ?
[13:30] <nixternal> halfway through round 1
[13:30] <nixternal> I should be finished up by this weekend with it
[13:30] <ArM-eye> Do you want to read the reveal?
[13:30] <ogra> highvoltage, did you try the gutsy image ?
[13:30] <nixternal> I had one question though, will there still be a CD and a DVD, or just a CD now?
[13:30] <highvoltage> ogra: not yet, where do I find it?
[13:30] <ArM-eye> It involves biblical figures
[13:31] <highvoltage> ogra: It was my birthday party on Friday night and I was a bit useless the weekend :)
[13:31] <ArM-eye> yes or no?
[13:31] <ArM-eye> it must not be given against will
[13:31] <RichEd> ArM-eye: yes or no to which question above ?
[13:32] <ArM-eye> Do you want to read the reveal?
[13:32] <ogra> highvoltage, oh, you had on friday ? happy belated b-day then ... mine is on sat.
[13:32] <highvoltage> thanks :)
[13:32] <highvoltage> ooh, another aquarian
[13:32] <ogra> yeah
[13:32] <ArM-eye> I saw yes
[13:32] <ogra> we rule the world :)
[13:32] <ArM-eye> BEGINNITIO REVELATIONEM
[13:33] <ArM-eye> DECODE BIBLIA
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - Abraham is associated with the Egyptian pharaoh Amenemhat I (translates: amen is the head) who worshiped the god Amun (Amen). Abraham god then be associated with in the Abrahamic religions god as amun, amon, omon, amen and the deity aamon. Abraham/Amenemhet I
[13:33] <ogra> ArM-eye, can you stop that ? we have a meeting here
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - Jacob = King Yakubher
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - Moses = Thutmose III
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - David = Psusennes I
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - Solomon = Siamun (translates: son of amun)
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - James = Ptolemy Philadelphus
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - Thomas Judas Didymus = Alexander Helios
[13:33] <RichEd> ArM-eye: we're actully in a meeting at the moment ... can we keep the religion out of here
[13:33] <nixternal> !ops
[13:33] <ubotu> Help! Seveas, Hobbsee, LjL, ompaulafk, Keybuk, mdz, sabdfl, janimo, ogra, mdke, dholbach, or jono
[13:33] <ArM-eye> Revel - Mary Magdalene = Cleopatra Selene II
[13:33] <ArM-eye> FINALIZE REVELATIONEM
[13:33] <ArM-eye> BIBLIA CHARACTER 1
[13:33] <ArM-eye> REVELATIONEM DE CHRISTUS
[13:34] <ogra> oh, i'm an op
[13:34] <ArM-eye> Revel - JESUS = CAESARION, Ptolemy XV, King of kings, little ceasar, Isa, Jesus
[13:34] <nixternal> lol
[13:34] <ArM-eye> The son of Julius Ceasar / Divine Julius and Clepatra VII / Goddes Isis
[13:34] <ArM-eye> Married to his half sister at "wedding in cana"
[13:34] <RichEd> ? can we get an op to boot the loony off the channel please ?
[13:34] <nixternal> thanks mdz
[13:34] <RichEd> thanks mdz
[13:34] <ogra> mdz, thanks i was stil looking for the right IRC commands
[13:35] <RichEd> right let's get back on track
[13:35] <RichEd> ogra: any more tech ?
[13:35] <ogra> edubuntu-content-server might slip the freeze, iasked for an exception though and i might get the skeleton done today stil
[13:36] <ogra> (its actually only an empty package with dependencies for the start)
[13:36] <ogra> thats it about tech ...
[13:37] <RichEd> thanks ...
[13:37] <RichEd> moving on then to docs ... nixternal you got any issues / questions
[13:37] <RichEd> "<nixternal> I had one question though, will there still be a CD and a DVD, or just a CD now?"
[13:38] <RichEd> ogra ^ accurate answer to that for nixternal
[13:38] <ogra> hmm, good question
[13:38] <ogra> i doubt we'll build a dedicated DVD
[13:38] <nixternal> that's what I figured...I think that is the only question I had
[13:39] <ogra> i can answer that later precisely ... but my gut feeling tells me thats not possible easily
[13:39] <RichEd> ogra: *if* the add-on CD could at some stage be included on the ubuntu desktop DVD, would the add-on procedures work in the same way ?
[13:39] <ogra> RichEd, no, we would have to adjust
[13:39] <ogra> it would work in the same way in some areas but there would be stuff that needs love
[13:40] <RichEd> ogra: well keep it in mind for UDS and a forward view towards 8.10
[13:40] <RichEd> if we could get all the edu stuff included on the standard ubuntu DVD, then we'll have a much wider potential audience
[13:40] <ogra> ok
[13:41] <ogra> but space restrictions again
[13:41] <RichEd> ogra: noted ... but if at least the main "selection options" were available ... then the rest could get pulled down across the net by the user
[13:42] <ogra> currently the addon CD is filled 2/3 with langpacks we dont need ... if i drop them we'll have several 100MB
[13:42] <RichEd> (in a simply selection via a nice GUI front end, and not command line)
[13:44] <RichEd> nixternal: any other book questions
[13:44] <ogra> well, you can do that today already
[13:44] <RichEd> ?? explain ?
[13:44] <ogra> (just install teh metapackages from the net)
[13:44] <highvoltage> nixternal: can the book be previewed anywhere currently?
[13:45] <nixternal> RichEd: that is it for now
[13:45] <ogra> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?keywords=edubuntu-addon&searchon=names&subword=1&version=hardy&release=all
[13:45] <nixternal> highvoltage: it is just updating the last books chapter...thus far it is just changes to the ways of getting, downloading, and installing Edubuntu 8.04 - Ubuntu Education Edition
[13:46] <RichEd> nixternal: in addition to highvoltage's question, one from me ... will we have access to the edu doc stuff you are writing ?
[13:46] <ogra> RichEd, ^^^
[13:46] <nixternal> RichEd: I will check with Deb, but I am sure her or mako won't have a problem with that
[13:46]  * RichEd loads ogra's link
[13:46] <nixternal> I do know they don't want it public, that's all I was told
[13:46]  * RichEd ponders creative commons and all of that
[13:48] <nixternal> RichEd: that only applies after the release I guess
[13:48] <RichEd> :)
[13:51] <RichEd> ---
[13:51] <RichEd> anyone else with issues / topics / questions ? we're heading up to the hour mark
[13:53] <RichEd> ogra ? shall we wrap ?
[13:53] <ogra> we could go on holding monologues :)
[13:53] <RichEd> going Once ...
[13:53] <ogra> but yes, lets wrap up :)
[13:53] <RichEd> going Twice ...
[13:53]  * RichEd looks around
[13:53] <RichEd> and done ... thanks ogra and highvoltage and nixternal
[13:53] <ogra> thanks
[13:54] <RichEd> meeting over ... any other topics move back to #edubuntu
[13:54] <highvoltage> thanks Riched, nixternal and ogra
[13:54] <nixternal> np, thanks!
[15:58] <pedro_> hello!
[15:58] <bdmurray> hello to you too
[15:58] <liw> greetingses
[15:58] <heno_> hi
[15:59] <pedro_> hey hey
[15:59] <nand> hi
[16:00] <heno> #startmeeting
[16:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is heno.
[16:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:00] <heno> Welcome all
[16:00] <heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[16:01] <highvoltage> hi heno
[16:01]  * ogasawara is here
[16:01] <heno> [TOPIC] Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams
[16:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Splitting hardy qa bug list into teams
[16:01] <heno> hi highvoltage :)
[16:02] <ogasawara> it's been on my todo list to split the list into teams, just haven't gotten around to it
[16:03] <heno> ogasawara: do you need help with sorting the bugs, is it a manual process or will you get info from LP on bug contacts or something?
[16:03] <bdmurray> ogasawara: is that in the bzr tree yet?
[16:03] <ogasawara> heno: I'd prefer for it to not be a manual process :)  so was going to look at making it more automated first
[16:04] <bdmurray> I think I've seen a "platform team" in launchpad now
[16:04] <ogasawara> bdmurray: yes, it's in the bzr tree - well my branch in plb since the script doesn't require a separate text file to contain the list
[16:05] <ogasawara> bdmurray: uses plb and sorts against the tag
[16:05] <heno> so we can get platform, desktop, kernel and 'other'
[16:05] <heno> or do we need more groups?
[16:05] <heno> server perhaps
[16:06] <bdmurray> Is the platform team confirmed?  I'm poking around now.
[16:07] <bdmurray> Well, regardless there should be one. ;)
[16:08] <heno> I'm just thinking a manual sort could be done in 20-30 minutes (but that won't be of any use in the next cycle of course)
[16:08] <ogasawara> heno: agreed.  I'm just thinking going forward maintaining a manual sorted list will be a pain
[16:09] <heno> ogasawara: It's your call; go with automation if you fell that's right and have a rough idea of how it could be done
[16:10] <ogasawara> heno: I'll send everyone email if I run into any issues and need help
[16:10] <heno> ok, great
[16:10] <heno> next topic
[16:11] <heno> [TOPIC] Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText
[16:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Revising the bug hint page to point at ReportingBugs. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/LpGuideText
[16:11] <heno> bdmurray: does that new version look OK to you?
[16:12] <bdmurray> One reasonable thing I've heard is splitting 3 into 2 bits. so 3) what happened? 4) what you expected to happen?
[16:12] <liw> in point 1, I would say System -> About Ubuntu first, cat second
[16:12] <pedro_> i have al ittle concern with it
[16:12] <liw> likewise in 2, I guess
[16:13] <pedro_> oh liw yes that one
[16:13] <heno> bdmurray: sounds fine
[16:13] <bdmurray> The third paragraph I might add a bit how "Report a Problem" automatically does 1 and 2.
[16:13] <heno> pedro_: was that your concern?
[16:13] <pedro_> do you  find really useful the cat /etc/lsb-release ?
[16:14] <pedro_> I've found that some reporters tend to submit that like "new shiny info"
[16:14] <bdmurray> pedro_: The information regarding the release is valuable.  What are you getting at?
[16:14] <pedro_> and re open bugs just because of that
[16:14] <heno> bdmurray: without the text growing too much :)
[16:14] <bdmurray> heno: right ;)
[16:14] <pedro_> we've experience that last weeks at least
[16:15] <bdmurray> pedro_: I'm not following do you have an example?
[16:15] <pedro_> sure let me find one
[16:16] <heno> I'm still not sure we need the command line versions there; can we move that to a wiki page this links to?
[16:16] <heno> those who absolutely prefer that would know to use it
[16:16] <heno> people running servers for example
[16:17] <heno> The tighter the text the more likely it will be read
[16:17] <liw> I'm fine with moving command line versions elsewhere
[16:17] <pedro_> i'd really happy with that
[16:17] <heno> 'dpkg -l PKGNAME | cat' will make many just skip reading the whole thing IMO
[16:17] <bdmurray> When I talked to mpt about it he thought the command line versions were the best as they are the most accessible.
[16:18] <bdmurray> Additionally, they are available across flavours of Ubuntu.
[16:18] <liw> lots of people who need to read that text don't even know what a command line is and will go ga-ga if they see such stuff...
[16:19] <heno> Yeah, I think we should over rule mpt on this point
[16:19] <bdmurray> I think we should look at bug reports and see what the reaction has been rather than guessing.
[16:19] <heno> people generally know that Synaptic is replaced by Adept if they use Kubuntu
[16:19] <pedro_> liw: yes it confuse more than help them
[16:19] <liw> then again, I go ga-ga myself, if there's more than four words or so
[16:19] <liw> bdmurray, good point
[16:20] <liw> bdmurray, although... people who go ga-ga might not be reporting problems at all anymore?
[16:20] <heno> ok, let's implement the other suggestions and revisit this one at the next meeting
[16:21] <heno> bdmurray: will you look at a sampling of bugs to see what we are getting?
[16:21] <bdmurray> heno: sure
[16:21] <heno> that will be interesting in any case
[16:21] <bdmurray> maybe 100?
[16:21] <pedro_> bug 187638
[16:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187638 in nautilus-sendto "package nautilus-sendto 0.13.1-0ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: unable to fill /var/lib/dpkg/updates/tmp.i with padding (dup-of: 187634)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187638
[16:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187634 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "package linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-5-generic None failed to install/upgrade: failed in buffer_write(fd) (10, ret=-1)" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187634
[16:21] <pedro_> there's one reporter that's sending the same info with apport
[16:22] <bdmurray> I wouldn't complain about having too much information
[16:22] <pedro_> doing the cat lsb-release, so maybe we should write an exception on the filing bugs help about it
[16:23] <heno> I would agree with that
[16:23] <pedro_> i'm totally ok on getting the more info that's possible but replicate info isn't good
[16:23] <heno> we'll let bdmurray make the case for leaving it in at the next meeting ;)
[16:24] <heno> armed with data
[16:24] <heno> ok, next topic
[16:24] <heno> [TOPIC] Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey
[16:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Data gathering for Bugs/PathsToFile -- log analysis and survey
[16:24] <bdmurray> well system -> about ubuntu is wrong on hardy
[16:25] <pedro_> bug 176678
[16:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 176678 in ubuntu-docs "Startup page for firefox states "Welcome to Ubuntu 7.10!" when it should say "Welcome to Ubuntu 8.04 (alpha 1)!" " [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/176678
[16:27] <bdmurray> That should really happen right at the beginning of the development cycle.
[16:28] <heno> perhaps we should get some bug guidance info on that page too
[16:28] <heno> Please look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/PathsToFile
[16:29] <heno> I'm hoping to identify how people arrive at filing a bug and what docs they see along the way
[16:29] <heno> We can get some access logs from IS
[16:30] <stgraber> hello
[16:30] <heno> Anyone want to have a poke at those to see how people navigate to the bug page?
[16:32] <ogasawara> I'm just curious what we plan to do with this information once we get it?
[16:33] <heno> ogasawara: make sure that people are exposed to information on how to file a good bug along the most common routes to filing one
[16:33] <heno> The survey might actually provide better info though
[16:34] <heno> we are looking for a rough overview rather than detailed stats
[16:34] <heno> And we don't expect to do a running analysis
[16:34] <bdmurray> it seems like the ubuntuforums admins might be worth talking to
[16:35] <heno> good point. I think there is a Fourum Council meeting soon
[16:36] <heno> I'll bring it there
[16:36] <bdmurray> google says nothing links to +filebug
[16:36] <heno> interesting
[16:37] <heno> from seeing the logs of that page, nearly all refs were from the LP ubuntu page
[16:37] <bdmurray> I could be doing something wrong though
[16:37] <heno> but we should track back from that
[16:37] <ogasawara> http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link
[16:38] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com has a "Report a Problem" link
[16:38] <heno> bdmurray: could you try the same with the LP ubuntu page?
[16:38] <stgraber> bdmurray: Is the file a bug button visible when not logged in ? that would explain why it isn't on google
[16:38] <bdmurray> stgraber: yeah, I just got to thinking that
[16:39] <stgraber> that or the +filebug page returns a no-index value so it isn't indexed by search engines
[16:39] <bdmurray> but shouldn't links to it show up? or does google just ignore "broken" links
[16:40] <liw> why would anyone link to a page people can't access unless they create an account and log in? if they log in, they can just click on the "report bug" link from lots of places, can't they?
[16:40] <heno> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it
[16:40] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/reportproblem needs some improving; I'll email Matt Nuzum about it
[16:42] <heno> Can anyone think of questions that should be added to the survey?
[16:42] <heno> (I will run the by mpt as well)
[16:43] <heno> I've shown this to the LP bugs team as well
[16:44] <bdmurray> How will people answer question 4?
[16:44] <bdmurray> It's possible the bug still is filed about the appropriate package.
[16:44] <bdmurray> gah - isn't
[16:45] <heno> true - it should rather be whether they found it easy to identify and mark the right package
[16:46] <heno> some packages are just tricky - openoffice, kernel, xorg
[16:46] <bdmurray> mark *a* package - right is rather subjective
[16:46] <bdmurray> 3.5 should be do you know what a package is?
[16:47] <liw> "right" also requires them to be confident they chose the right package -- I often guess, sometimes wrongly
[16:47] <heno> these will be full text questions/answers so we would get that info
[16:48] <heno> I'd like to see the posibility to select a category before selecting the package so it can at least go to the right team
[16:49] <heno> openoffice, printing, display, system
[16:49] <bdmurray> I think some of that exists to a degree already
[16:49] <heno> as possible categories
[16:49] <bdmurray> display - xorg
[16:49] <bdmurray> printing - cupsys
[16:51] <heno> bdmurray: on the package search?
[16:52] <bdmurray> No at FindRightPackage
[16:52] <heno> I've got to run to a phone meeting in a minute
[16:53] <heno> bdmurray: ok, I was thinking to create LP functionality like guidel filing in the gnome bugzilla
[16:53] <heno> final topic: would someone like to summarize today's meeting?
[16:54] <bdmurray> okay, I don't think having a whole separate pseudo package is best
[16:54] <liw> heno, I can do that
[16:54] <heno> liw: great thanks!
[16:54] <pedro_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing
[16:54] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://bugzilla.gnome.org/simple-bug-guide.cgi <- guide bug filing
[16:54] <heno> sorry, I've got to run
[16:54] <heno> #endmeeting
[16:54] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:54.
[16:54] <heno> thanks all!
[16:55] <pedro_> thanks !
[19:05] <dvl> damn... I often type unbuntu by accident....
[19:23] <dvl> server meeting in about 35 minutes?
[19:24] <zul> @schedule
[19:24] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 13 Feb 20:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
[19:24] <zul> hey dvl
[19:24] <zul> @schedule montreal
[19:24] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 13 Feb 15:00: Security Team | 13 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 13 Feb 17:30: Forum Council | 14 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team | 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest
[19:24] <zul> 1hr 35 minutes
[19:24] <dvl> zul: my server time must be off
[19:25] <zul> ah
[19:25] <dvl> No, it's not, I was off.  My cellphone says 4pm EST, my head said 20:00
[19:25] <dvl> so I do have time to eat
[19:26] <zul> plenty of time
[19:58] <lobo> hi
[20:00] <keescook> #startmeeting
[20:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 20:00. The chair is keescook.
[20:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[20:00] <keescook> hi everyone!
[20:00] <gouki> 'night keescook!
[20:00] <jdstrand> hi keescook!
[20:00] <propagandist> ;o} hey!
[20:00] <keescook> I figure I'll wait a few moment to let anyone else show up, and then we can get started.
[20:00] <gouki> Sure.
[20:00] <keescook> [TOPIC] review agenda
[20:00] <MootBot> New Topic:  review agenda
[20:01] <keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[20:01] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[20:01] <keescook> okay, so, anyone new to the meeting this week?
[20:02] <mra> I have never been to one of these before
[20:02] <keescook> cool, well, this is just the 2nd of it's kind, so we're new to it too.  :)
[20:02] <lobo> me too
[20:02] <nijaba> me neither :)
[20:02] <keescook> mra, nijaba: do you want to give a quick introduction about yourselves?
[20:03] <nxvl_work> o/
[20:03] <keescook> introductions from last week are near the top of the IRC log:
[20:03] <keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/20080130
[20:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Security/20080130
[20:03] <keescook> lobo, nxvl_work: you too, if you feel up to it.
[20:03] <nijaba> ok, I am the Ubuntu Server PM -> Nick Barcet IRL
[20:03] <mra> I'm interested in security work in Ubuntu, and also ia64 related issues
[20:04] <keescook> PM == Project Manager, yes?
[20:04] <keescook> mra: do you mean ia64 or amd64?
[20:04] <nijaba> nope, product manager, but you do know that, keith ;)
[20:04] <keescook> keith!
[20:05] <nijaba> that was for project :)
[20:05] <keescook> right, I used the wrong word there.
[20:05] <nxvl_work> i'm a contributor to ubuntu, not yet even ubuntu member, i'm a student of system engineering on Lima - Perú
[20:05] <jdstrand> heh
[20:05] <mra> I'm interested in all kinds, but not alot of people watch ia64 so I try to pay closer attention there
[20:05] <keescook> mra: what kinds of security work interests you?
[20:05] <nxvl_work> i'm working for 3 years as network and security consultant, most of the time making sysadmining
[20:05] <mra> I am part of the HP team that brought SuSE and RH through their CAPP/LSPP evaluations
[20:06] <keescook> mra: cool.  did you find that to be tricky?
[20:06] <mra> so I'm interested in all kinds of security, but I'm more interested in what Ubutu wants to do with security
[20:06] <mra> yes.
[20:06] <mra> but worthwhile
[20:06] <keescook> nxvl_work: cool
[20:06] <keescook> okay, welcome everyone.  :)
[20:07] <keescook> any other agenda items anyone wants to add at the last minute, go ahead and update the wiki, I'll reload it when we get near the end.  :)
[20:07] <lobo> im 26 years old, live in the southern part of germany. work for about 4 years as network administrator for a mid size company. i'm interested in network security monitoring, computer networks in general and i'm also very interested in linux security. i run a couple of grsecurity hardened servers.
[20:07] <keescook> lobo: excellent.  I'd be curious to hear which grsec options you have enabled.  I'd like to get some of those features broken out and put into the mainline kernel.
[20:08] <keescook> okay, forging ahead -- we only have an hour :)
[20:08] <keescook> [topic] CVE status
[20:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  CVE status
[20:08]  * siretart waves into the round :)
[20:09] <keescook> I was on holiday last week, so I think I'll lean on jdstrand and anyone from motu-swat for this one.  :)
[20:09] <keescook> heya siretart
[20:09] <lobo> keescook: ok, maybe we can have a talk in ubuntu-hardened later about grsec ;-)
[20:09] <keescook> lobo: sounds good
[20:09] <gouki> keescook: I'm actually thinking about updating the Wiki with grsecurity. I was wondering if it's a possibility to Ubuntu and it's downsides (incompatibility with other software, wine for example)
[20:09] <jdstrand> umm-- not sure what to say here that wasn't in USNs...
[20:10] <keescook> gouki: yes please!  I'd love to see some feature details.  Perhaps use SecurityTeam/Roadmap/GRSecurity and outline the details (and link to it from the Roadmap page?)
[20:10] <gouki> keescook: Sure thing
[20:10] <jdstrand> (I'd be happy to talk a length-- just want to stay on topic)
[20:10] <jdstrand> at length
[20:10] <keescook> jdstrand: agreed.  maybe this agenda item is redundant.
[20:10] <mra> what is USN?
[20:10] <jdstrand> I will say that people were wondring about clamav
[20:10] <keescook> mra: Ubuntu Security Notice:
[20:11] <keescook> [link] http://ubuntu.com/usn/
[20:11] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntu.com/usn/
[20:11] <jdstrand> it was pushed out today for gutsy and feisty, but there is a buildd issue that isn't resolved yet causing a problem with dapper
[20:11] <jdstrand> (something about translations-- should be fixed soon)
[20:12] <jdstrand> I'll also mention for anyone who doesn't know that the local root exploit from slashdaot et al was patched yesterday
[20:12] <keescook> cool.  I think I put this on the agenda just to have a place to talk about CVEs in general.  Perhaps for next meeting, people can call out specific CVE issues they want to talk about.  And if the list is empty, we can skip it.  :)
[20:12]  * keescook hugs jdstrand for those fixes :)
[20:13] <\emgent> sorry ofr away
[20:13]  * jdstrand high fives keescook will he hugs him
[20:13] <\emgent> my adsl sux.
[20:13] <keescook> \emgent: heh, no problem.  logs should be available from Mootbot
[20:13] <jdstrand> (however that is actually done, is up to your imagination)
[20:13] <\emgent> cool
[20:13] <keescook> okay, moving on
[20:13] <keescook> [topic] AppArmor progress
[20:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  AppArmor progress
[20:13]  * jdstrand wonders why he can't type
[20:13] <keescook> I haven't heard anything new from upstream, but will ping them today
[20:14] <nxvl_work> jdstrand: irssi via ssh?
[20:14] <keescook> [action] keescook to ping AA upstream for anything to sneak in before FF
[20:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to ping AA upstream for anything to sneak in before FF
[20:14] <jdstrand> nxvl_work: ?
[20:14] <keescook> mathiaz, jdstrand: you were both working on more profiles
[20:14] <jdstrand> keescook: yes
[20:14] <nxvl_work> jdstrand: are you having troubles to type using irssi via ssh connection?
[20:14] <jdstrand> I am getting the packaging together for slapd, named and mysqld
[20:15] <jdstrand> nxvl_work: oh, heh, no-- just not too good today
[20:15] <nxvl_work> jdstrand: oh ok
[20:15] <mathiaz> keescook: kind of. dendrobates added an abstraction for likewise.
[20:15] <jdstrand> the profiles are tested with our qa-regression-tests, and seem in good shape
[20:15] <mathiaz> keescook: It's a good way to figure out the workflow needed to get new profiles added.
[20:16] <jdstrand> will be taking usr.sbin.named and usr.sbin.mysqld out of apparmor-profiles and adding them to their respective packages
[20:16] <mathiaz> jdstrand: could you document how this should be done ?
[20:16] <mathiaz> jdstrand: especially from a packaging POV (like Replaces etc...)
[20:16] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I sure will when it's all tested ;)
[20:16] <propagandist> jdstrand: would these regression tests be useful for selinux testing?
[20:16] <keescook> [link] https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing
[20:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/qa-regression-testing
[20:17] <jdstrand> propagandist: sure-- they exercise various parts of the application-- especially the default installation
[20:17] <keescook> jdstrand: the goal is to run them enabled?  That might be the distinction: if it's in "complain" they stay in apparmor-profiles, and in "enforce" they go into the target package?
[20:17] <jdstrand> they aren't apparmor specific by any means
[20:17] <mathiaz> keescook: yes. That is the plan.
[20:17] <jdstrand> keescook: oh yes-- full-on enabled
[20:17] <keescook> mathiaz: heh. yay :)
[20:18] <jdstrand> complete with note in README.Debian to go to DebuggingApparmor ;)
[20:18] <keescook> hehe
[20:18] <jdstrand> (which I wrote last week)
[20:18] <jdstrand> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
[20:19] <keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
[20:19] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor
[20:19] <jdstrand> propagandist: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-bugcontrol/qa-regression-testing/master
[20:19] <propagandist> jdstrand: nice ;o) I will take a look at those and see how SELinux fares
[20:19] <keescook> propagandist: more tests are always welcome.  ;)
[20:20] <keescook> okay, good time to transition to...
[20:20] <jdstrand> absolutely!
[20:20] <keescook> [topic] SELinux progress
[20:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  SELinux progress
[20:20] <propagandist> Packages all pbuild succesfully and are available from the Hardened PPA:
[20:20] <propagandist> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hardened/+archive/
[20:20] <propagandist> They are also on revu.
[20:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hardened/+archive/
[20:20] <propagandist> Sources are available from:
[20:20] <propagandist> [LINK] https://code.launchpad.net/~calebcase/+junk/selinux-support
[20:20] <propagandist> Hardy server and desktop boot successfully SELinux enabled and enforcing.
[20:20] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://code.launchpad.net/~calebcase/+junk/selinux-support
[20:20] <keescook> I'm a slacker and haven't managed to get through all the package reviews, but I have been working through the TODO list propagandist sent via emai.
[20:21] <propagandist> External Package Status:
[20:21] <propagandist> grub            [bug 189173, submitted]
[20:21] <propagandist> openssh         [bug 188136, submitted]
[20:21] <propagandist> pam             [bug 187822, merged]
[20:21] <propagandist> shadow          [bug 191326, submitted]
[20:21] <propagandist> ustr            [new package, ?]
[20:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 189173 in grub "trigger for update-grub" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/189173
[20:21] <propagandist> ubuntu-standard [change apparmor-utils recommend to meta, keescook?]
[20:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188136 in openssh "package openssh-4.7p1 configure.ac improperly fails to recognize getseuserbyname and get_default_context_with_level" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/188136
[20:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187822 in pam "package pam-0.99.7.1 pam_selinux.so doesn't support seusers" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/187822
[20:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191326 in shadow "package shadow-4.0.18.2-1 enable pam_selinux in login.pam" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191326
[20:21] <propagandist> keescook:  ;o} vacations are so rough!
[20:21] <\emgent> :)
[20:22] <keescook> pam is done, openssh just hit the archive (building now)
[20:22] <propagandist> As keescook says, the packages are in need of revieweing and merging.  I am available to fix any problems with the packages (Freeze is tomorrow right!?) Please let me know what needs to be done!
[20:22] <propagandist> keescook: oh nice!
[20:22] <keescook> ustr is accepted in Debian.
[20:22] <keescook> I'll file a sync for it in Ubuntu right now...
[20:23] <crimsun> I've been helping joejaxx with reviewing the selinux source packages, but I'm traveling this week, so further progress will (unfortunately) be by proxy
[20:24] <keescook> propagandist: what would help me is a checklist of the packages to review.  I can browse your PPA, but it'd be handy to have a wiki to take notes on.
[20:24] <propagandist> keescook: kk, I will put them up
[20:24] <keescook> okay, ustr import requested.
[20:25] <\emgent> cool
[20:25] <propagandist> ;o}
[20:25] <keescook> it sounds like things are in good shape.  I'm going to poke at grub too.  I think shadow should be trivial as well.
[20:26] <keescook> we'll make FF, and if not, it shouldn't be hard to get an exception since selinux doesn't work correctly currently, so new uploads can't really regress.  :)
[20:26] <propagandist> ;o}
[20:26] <propagandist> heh
[20:26] <\emgent> :>
[20:26] <ScottK> Breaking your package just before FF is the surest way to get to upload updates later.
[20:27] <keescook> heh
[20:27] <ajmitch> ScottK: shh, this is publically logged
[20:27] <propagandist> Are we using /[TASK] to assign these or just remember? ;o}
[20:27]  * jdstrand makes a note of that
[20:28] <keescook> propagandist: I think our [action] list would get long.  I think just making the TODO list in the wiki should be fine.  I've been able to see which things need sponsoring so far, so we're good.
[20:28] <propagandist> keescook: kk sounds good
[20:28] <keescook> we're skipping joejaxx's selinux UI stuff for this meeting since he hadn't slept in 36 hours.  :)
[20:28] <gouki> heheh
[20:28] <gouki> true, true
[20:29] <keescook> but, based on screenshots he posted a while back, it looks like it's very cool
[20:29] <\emgent> :)
[20:29] <keescook> [topic] hardening wrapper testing
[20:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  hardening wrapper testing
[20:29] <gouki> keescook: Are this screenshots publicly available?
[20:29] <keescook> anyone get a chance to do more hardened builds with the wrapper?
[20:29] <keescook> gouki: yeah, but I don't have the link handy
[20:29] <gouki> keescook: No problem. We'll talk about it on -hardened.
[20:30] <mra> keescook, are there links to those screenshots?
[20:30] <keescook> crimsun: did you get the pbuilder bits documented?
[20:30] <crimsun> keescook: yes.  I have a document that's sitting in $employer's prepublication review queue (due to my doing it on work time);  I'll get those bits posted onto the Ubuntu wiki upon their approval.
[20:30] <keescook> mra: see above (no)
[20:30] <gouki> mra: Yes, but he doesn't have them handy. We'll talk about it on #ubuntu-hardened.
[20:31] <keescook> crimsun: cool.  were you able to do any builds?
[20:31] <crimsun> keescook: as a test, I built the entire audio stack from alsa-driver->alsa-lib->pulseaudio->gstreamer->bmpx
[20:32] <crimsun> keescook: things were considerably easier than using hooks.  pbuilder provides bootstrap-time options for it.
[20:32] <keescook> nice! how did it do?
[20:32] <keescook> ah, good
[20:32] <crimsun> went fine.
[20:32] <keescook> \o/
[20:32] <\emgent> :)
[20:32] <keescook> can anyone else make some time to do rebuild tests?  packages you're interested in, etc?
[20:32] <keescook> general use of the wrapper is documented here:
[20:33] <keescook> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper
[20:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Security/HardeningWrapper
[20:34] <jdstrand> it would be good to run the qa-regression-tests scripts on packages compiled with HardeningWrapper
[20:34] <keescook> yeah, good idea
[20:34] <crimsun> indeed, that's queued on my list
[20:34] <keescook> we do need behavioral tests instead of just compile tests.  :)
[20:35] <keescook> I'd also like to see some benchmarks.  Some suggestions were made on the Debian mailing lists.
[20:35] <keescook> [action] keescook to find debian benchmark mailing list post link
[20:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  keescook to find debian benchmark mailing list post link
[20:36] <keescook> [topic] ubuntu-pentest
[20:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  ubuntu-pentest
[20:36]  * keescook turns it over to emgent
[20:36] <\emgent> heya :)
[20:36] <\emgent> well, ubuntu pentest team wiki page is up
[20:36] <\emgent> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest
[20:36] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest
[20:36] <\emgent> now we can define "working tools docs" and PT draft report
[20:37] <keescook> I'm waiting to get the mailing list up (I sent an RT for it)
[20:37] <\emgent> ok cool
[20:37] <\emgent> I think that it's important write a draft report for monitoring all works
[20:37] <nxvl_work> also we need to check the appliance of memberships to the team
[20:37] <\emgent> nxvl_work, later see agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
[20:38] <\emgent> [action] emgent to write report draft
[20:38] <nxvl_work> \emgent: i mean to avoid this -> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-hardened/2008-February/000294.html
[20:38] <\emgent> someone interested to write some docs about working tools for new members?
[20:39] <gouki> nxvl_work: There is a topic for that on the Wiki
[20:39] <nxvl_work> \emgent: first we need to decide which tools are we going to use
[20:39] <keescook> some "process guildlines" would be good too (i.e. keep vulns private until fixed, etc)
[20:39] <nxvl_work> gouki: yep, but read the link i have just posted
[20:39] <\emgent> nxvl_work, we can talk about it in ml, if it's ok for all.
[20:40] <keescook> and people can be team members if they agree to abide by those guidelines, CoC, etc.
[20:40] <gouki> nxvl_work: I'm aware of that. I followed the discussion. But we will get to it.
[20:40] <\emgent> well about working method
[20:40] <keescook> [action] emgent to write report draft
[20:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  emgent to write report draft
[20:40] <nxvl_work> also we need to have standards and policies about the tools used (i.e: not to use dangerous tests, which tools to use, etc..)
[20:41] <jdstrand> keescook: can we get them to sign something separate for the CoC, or is that enough?
[20:41] <\emgent> i think that it's good decide one 1-2 day for month for pentest-sessions
[20:41] <nxvl_work> not to touch anything if you gain access
[20:41] <nxvl_work> not to break anything
[20:41] <keescook> that can include upstream contacts, where/when to test live services (i.e. staging.launchpad.net)
[20:41] <\emgent> we can talk with infra people and working to services.
[20:42] <keescook> jdstrand: I'm not sure there is a general way to do "sign this thing", so we just have to take people at their word.
[20:42] <astharot> 1/2 days couldn't be enough
[20:42] <\emgent> it's important see "draft report" and wrte a new with all tests
[20:42] <mra> keescook, you could ask them to gpg sign something
[20:42] <mra> its a way to register that you agreed to it
[20:42] <jdstrand> keescook: maybe if they gpg signed the contents of an email message and sent it to the mlist?
[20:43] <nxvl_work> keescook: we can make a Contract of Confidentiality and everyone on the team must sign it
[20:43] <\emgent> astharot, what do you propose ?
[20:43] <jdstrand> those contents would be the 'policy'
[20:43] <nijaba> mra: right, and post it on their own wiki page
[20:43] <keescook> mra: true, we could look in to it -- but I think an email confirming should be good enough.  yeah, sure, sign the email.  cool.
[20:43] <crimsun> astharot: for specific components of the infra, I don't see why it wouldn't.
[20:43] <astharot> it depends on how platforms do you want to test per month
[20:43] <jdstrand> keescook: I think it's important from a mindset point of view, as well as potentially legal
[20:43] <\emgent> keescook, can you talk with infra people for number pt sessions ?
[20:43] <gouki> Other than that, we could also have in account contributions done by that person.
[20:44] <jdstrand> (people will take it more seriously if they sign it)
[20:44] <astharot> first there should be a census of the platforms to be checked
[20:44] <astharot> then start thinking to a "schedule"
[20:44] <keescook> \emgent: I'm unclear what you mean?  I think we'll need to coordinate infra-poking on a case-by-case basis with the infrastructure folks
[20:44] <\emgent> astharot, +1
[20:44] <\emgent> keescook, ok
[20:44]  * jdstrand feels they *must* sign the email
[20:44] <keescook> \emgent: i.e. we can make a list of things we want to test, and then bring it to them, and schedule times to do it.
[20:45] <\emgent> ok cool.
[20:45] <keescook> jdstrand: I agree -- it's not a very high barrier.  :)
[20:45] <astharot> moreover, you should decide how many times per year/month/week you want to test each platform
[20:45] <astharot> or on "new releases" basis
[20:45] <\emgent> astharot, yep later, now we should write report draft
[20:45] <dvl> nothing like having the laptop die 15 minutes before the meeting...
[20:46] <keescook> nxvl_work: would you be willing to go through this IRC log and pull out all the method/guideline ideas we had?
[20:46] <nxvl_work> mm
[20:46] <keescook> if they got recorded in the wiki, it'd be a great starting point for more details
[20:47] <\emgent> about Ubuntu Pentest day i think that first is good complete other docs (draft report, working tools docs etc..)
[20:47] <nxvl_work> i'm kind of out of time this week, but if you can wait until weekend there is no problem
[20:47] <\emgent> i think that we can decide date in ml or next meeting
[20:47] <\emgent> and write a calendar
[20:47] <astharot> first the census, then the schedule
[20:47]  * jdstrand wants to go on record that we need to have our CoC in place, signed, and our policies defined before any pentesting
[20:47] <\emgent> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/PentestDayCalendar
[20:47] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/PentestDayCalendar
[20:48] <keescook> nxvl_work: yeah, weekend should be fine.
[20:48] <\emgent> me too, weekend +1
[20:48] <keescook> [action] nxvl_work to prepare rough draft of pentest guidelines in Wiki, including ideas from ths IRC logs
[20:48] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nxvl_work to prepare rough draft of pentest guidelines in Wiki, including ideas from ths IRC logs
[20:49] <\emgent> well, according to astharot  is good first the census and later the schedule
[20:49] <keescook> jdstrand: I think that's fine.
[20:49] <\emgent> keescook, when pt private meilinglist is ready we can use it for coordination
[20:49] <\emgent> s/meilinglist/mailinglist/
[20:50] <\emgent> it's ok for all ?
[20:50] <keescook> yup, sounds good.
[20:50] <gouki> Sure
[20:50] <\emgent> ok, now candidature
[20:50] <nxvl_work> we can use bug reports on LP team as mailing list
[20:50] <nxvl_work> we use to use it on DCT :P
[20:50] <keescook> (10 minutes left, let's trying to be quick...)
[20:51] <keescook> s/ing//
[20:51] <\emgent> andrea-bs, nxvl_work  online ?
[20:51] <gouki> \emgent: please, proceed. It's important to define that.
[20:51] <nxvl_work> o/
[20:51] <andrea-bs> \emgent: I'm here :)
[20:51] <gouki> Maybe it would be good for Zelut to be around
[20:51] <\emgent> about bugreports we can use launchpad np
[20:51] <gouki> He the listadmin and owner of the hardened team.
[20:51] <keescook> I'll send a meeting-minutes note to the hardened ml
[20:51] <\emgent> gouki, i know.
[20:52] <gouki> I'll talk to him.
[20:52] <\emgent> ok
[20:52] <\emgent> we can procede to membership approvation ?
[20:52] <keescook> please do :)
[20:52] <gouki> I believe so
[20:53] <\emgent> cool
[20:53] <\emgent> andrea-bs
[20:53] <keescook> I think if applicants understand they need to be careful and use responsible disclosure (private bugs, etc) that should be good.  :)
[20:53] <andrea-bs> I'm a developer who use Python as main programming language, but I know C/C++
[20:53] <andrea-bs> and ASM on x86 (AT&T syntax) too. I'm interested in bugs and of course in
[20:53] <andrea-bs> security issues in Linux and expecially in Ubuntu. I work with Ubuntu
[20:53] <andrea-bs> BugControl and I'd like to join PenTest to help out better.
[20:53] <\emgent> i saw him wiki page and launchpad page
[20:53] <\emgent> for me +1
[20:54] <keescook> +1 too :)
[20:54]  * jdstrand knows he is harping on the same thing, but if we have all our policies, etc figured out, this will fall into place
[20:54] <gouki> I also read it, and if I have anything to say, +1
[20:54] <\emgent> jdstrand, please vote :)
[20:54] <\emgent> astharot, please vote too.
[20:54] <astharot> +1 ? :)
[20:55] <\emgent> heheh :P
[20:55] <\emgent> jdstrand, ?
[20:55] <jdstrand> +1 (but wants something signed by all of us)
[20:55] <keescook> (oops, I need to do the mootbot voting)
[20:55] <jdstrand> (am I obsessing?)
[20:55]  * jdstrand think you are jdstrand
[20:55] <\emgent> hehe
[20:55] <keescook> [agreed] we'll retroactively make sure all pentest members sign the pentest CoC
[20:55] <MootBot> AGREED received:  we'll retroactively make sure all pentest members sign the pentest CoC
[20:55] <keescook> welcome andrea-bs :)
[20:55] <\emgent> crimsun, plese vote
[20:55] <andrea-bs> thanks everybody! :)
[20:56] <keescook> heh, getting ahead of myself, but 4 minutes left!
[20:56] <\emgent> ok :D
[20:56] <keescook> quick quick, on to nxvl_work :)
[20:56] <crimsun> +1 here
[20:56] <\emgent> ok
[20:56] <nxvl_work> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nxvl
[20:56] <\emgent> welcome andrea-bs
[20:56] <nxvl_work> https://edge.launchpad.net/~nvalcarcel
[20:56] <\emgent> nxvl_work, go
[20:56] <jdstrand> (we might also define who gets a vote, etc)
[20:56] <nxvl_work> as i said before
[20:56] <andrea-bs> \emgent: thank you
[20:56] <nxvl_work> i'm a 23 years old student
[20:56] <\emgent> jdstrand, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPentest/Members
[20:56] <keescook> [action] \emgent to define who votes for pentest membership
[20:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  \emgent to define who votes for pentest membership
[20:56] <\emgent> keescook, all members.
[20:56] <nxvl_work> and i have 3 year experience working as network and security consultant
[20:57]  * jdstrand thinks this is sounding like a Council
[20:57] <nxvl_work> most of my work has been sysadmining and pentesting
[20:57] <gouki> As webmaster of PUU, I believe nxvl_work would be good. He has made several good and informative posts fetched by PUU.
[20:57] <keescook> based on discussions, i'm +1
[20:57] <\emgent> +1
[20:57] <crimsun> also +1
[20:57] <nxvl_work> my area of specialization is security, cause i love it
[20:57] <nxvl_work> :D
[20:57] <keescook> hehe
[20:57] <\emgent> astharot, jenda
[20:57] <jdstrand> +1
[20:57] <\emgent> astharot, ?
[20:57] <astharot> +1
[20:58] <\emgent> ok welcome nxvl_work
[20:58]  * astharot is automatic +1 :)
[20:58] <keescook> welcome nxvl_work :)
[20:58] <keescook> 2 min!
[20:58] <nxvl_work> thanks to all
[20:58] <gouki> 2 minutes left! :S
[20:58] <\emgent> keescook, switch topic
[20:58] <keescook> [topic] Contributing to ubuntu-cve-tracker - what's the best way?
[20:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  Contributing to ubuntu-cve-tracker - what's the best way?
[20:58] <keescook> everyone please review the README in the ubuntu-cve-tracker and prepare questions about it for next meeting!
[20:58] <keescook> [topic] todo list
[20:58] <MootBot> New Topic:  todo list
[20:58] <nxvl_work> gouki: what's puu?
[20:58] <keescook> everyone please fill in our roadmap wiki page.  :)
[20:59] <keescook> [topic] next meeting
[20:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  next meeting
[20:59] <gouki> nxvl_work: ubuntuweblogs.org
[20:59] <nxvl_work> ah yes
[20:59] <nxvl_work> :D
[20:59] <keescook> I'll defer motu-swat membership
[20:59] <jdstrand> I put that there for thinking about bzr branches, etc.  so we should be thinking of that too
[20:59] <keescook> next meeting, in two week, same time/place?
[20:59] <crimsun> sounds fine
[20:59] <nxvl_work> +1
[20:59] <\emgent> +1
[20:59] <gouki> Sure
[20:59] <andrea-bs> +1 from me (if I can vote :D)
[20:59] <keescook> the ayes have it.  done!  :)
[20:59] <jdstrand> wfm
[20:59] <keescook> #endmeeting
[20:59] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:59.
[20:59] <keescook> :)
[20:59] <\emgent> lol
[21:00] <\emgent> very fast :D
[21:00] <keescook> a bit rushed.  :P
[21:00] <keescook> but I think we have some good stuff to work one.
[21:00] <keescook> on
[21:00] <\emgent> thanks for all
[21:00] <keescook> mathiaz: all yours.
[21:00] <keescook> thanks everyone for coming!
[21:00]  * jdstrand thinks that meeting flew by...
[21:00] <propagandist> thanks ;o}
[21:00] <jdstrand> thanks keescook!
[21:00] <nijaba> thank keescook
[21:00] <nxvl_work> thanks all
[21:00] <ScottK> jdstrand: I did the feisty-backports update for clamav, so all the pockets are now covered.
[21:00] <nxvl_work> see you on 2 weeks
[21:01] <jdstrand> ScottK: I'll add that to my ever growing todo list
[21:01] <jdstrand> :)
[21:01] <mathiaz> thanks keescook !
[21:01] <mathiaz> Let's move on to the Ubuntu Server Team meeting
[21:01] <ScottK> jdstrand: No. It' published.  No more work required.
[21:01] <zul> hello
[21:01] <jdstrand> oh-- -backports.  duh
[21:01] <sommer> hey all
[21:01] <dvl> hi
[21:02]  * nealmcb waves
[21:02] <dendrobates> \o/
[21:02]  * jdstrand thanks ScottK for not adding something to his todo list at this moment
[21:02] <mathiaz> keescook: did you stop your meeting with mootbot ?
[21:02] <dvl> hey, that's my emoticon!
[21:02] <jdstrand> o/
[21:02] <nijaba> \o
[21:02] <keescook> mathiaz: yup
[21:02] <dvl> that's better
[21:02] <mathiaz> keescook: ok - I hadn't seen it.
[21:03] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[21:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 21:03. The chair is mathiaz.
[21:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:03] <mathiaz> Welcome to the Server Team meeting !
[21:03] <mathiaz> Let's try to make it shorter than last week.
[21:03] <mathiaz> The Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[21:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:04] <mathiaz> Previous meeting log and minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080206
[21:04] <mathiaz> ivoks: started to work on the bacula merge.
[21:04] <ivoks> right
[21:05] <ivoks> i proposed a python script, but this is going to be replaces by awk script
[21:05] <dvl> [if I fail to respond to a question, my link died, flaky laptop today]
[21:05] <ivoks> replaced
[21:05] <mathiaz> right - I suggested to try to get upstream to accept our changes
[21:05] <ivoks> dvl: is bacula dev, so we are trying to coordinate work
[21:06] <dvl> It came upstream.  It was good.
[21:06] <dvl> I liked it, others liked it.
[21:06] <mathiaz> dvl: would accept the python script ?
[21:06] <soren> o/
[21:06] <mathiaz> dvl: talking with ivoks, it seems that you'd better stick with a shell script.
[21:06] <ivoks> dvl: if we finish awk script, which should work as the python script, would that be ok for upstream?
[21:07] <dvl> mathiaz: yes.  But if awk is preferred, we'll go with that too.  We think awk is better supported on our platforms.
[21:07] <dvl> ivoks: the awk script will be fine.
[21:07] <ivoks> great; only thing to do - teach ivoks awk :D
[21:07] <dvl> mathiaz: shell script would be good too, if we can parse it.
[21:08] <mathiaz> dvl: well - I'm just hoping that if we fix something in ubuntu upstream devs are ready to accept the change.
[21:08] <dvl> ivoks: well, Python is pretty popular, but awk is pretty much everywhere.  You folks are writing the script, if you have a preferred language, propose it
[21:08] <dvl> mathiaz: We are happy that Ubuntu is doing this work. It's great.  We'll take it.
[21:08] <ivoks> dvl: we'll do it in awk ;)
[21:09] <dvl> mathiaz: I've already tested the python script with a PostgreSQL database.  worked with minimal changes (that were PG specific)
[21:09] <dvl> ivoks: OK.
[21:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: dvl: ok - let's go for a awk script
[21:09] <dvl> mathiaz: in short, if it comes, we'll use it, if it's anything like the Python script.
[21:09] <ivoks> i think we can move on, this one is decided
[21:09] <mathiaz> is there anything else needed for bacula ?
[21:09] <mathiaz> ivoks: ^^
[21:09] <dvl> OK, anything else for me?  if not, I'll move on....
[21:10] <ivoks> dvl: thank you for your time
[21:10] <dvl> Thanks folks.  The Bacula project wanted me to say thanks too.  later.
[21:10] <zul> just a MIR for bacula
[21:10] <ivoks> mathiaz: some packaging stuff
[21:10] <mathiaz> thanks dvl
[21:10] <dvl> laters.
[21:10] <mathiaz> ivoks: how confident are you to get it uploaded before FF (ie tomorrow) ?
[21:11] <ivoks> not very
[21:11] <nijaba> ivoks: how complex it the python script?
[21:11] <ivoks> nijaba: it's simple, but we've droped it
[21:12] <nealmcb> and what does the python script do?
[21:12] <mathiaz> nijaba: we've chosen to go for a awk script
[21:12] <mathiaz> nealmcb: parses the bacula configuration files to extract database information
[21:12] <nijaba> ivoks: yes, understood, but if not too complex I could translate python->awk for you
[21:12] <mathiaz> nealmcb: such as db name, password and username
[21:12] <ivoks> nijaba: that would be great
[21:12] <nijaba> ivoks: where can I find it?
[21:13] <ivoks> nijaba: ubuntu-server mailing list :)
[21:13] <ivoks> there's already one part mathiaz did
[21:14] <ivoks> nijaba: i'll send it to you on email
[21:14]  * nijaba must be blind, can't find this mail in the ml
[21:14] <ivoks> nijaba: i'll send you both then...
[21:14] <mathiaz> [ACTION] nijaba to help ivoks with rewriting the bacula python script in awk
[21:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nijaba to help ivoks with rewriting the bacula python script in awk
[21:15] <mathiaz> I've scheduled a session to present the Server Team during the Ubuntu Developer Week.
[21:15] <mathiaz> I will run the irc session next monday at 20:00 UTC
[21:16] <mathiaz> That's all for the last meeting actions.
[21:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu community
[21:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu community
[21:16] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu community - forums
[21:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu community - forums
[21:17] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: any updates on the forums ?
[21:17] <faulkes-_> sorry, was in another window
[21:18] <faulkes-_> 1. The "Servers & Security" forums how been split into two seperate forums
[21:18] <faulkes-_> they are "Server Platforms" & "Security Discussions", they are now listed in the main support categories rather than the "Other Community Discussions" area
[21:19] <faulkes-_> this was the first of our objectives, in order to equalize the importance and prominence of the server side of ubuntu
[21:19] <faulkes-_> 2. A forum sticky detailing information on the Ubuntu Server Team
[21:20] <faulkes-_> a message was sent to the ML, on wich we received feedback from a number of members, Loye agreed to review the proposed sticky for grammar, spelling, etc.
[21:20] <faulkes-_> I am still waiting to hear back from Loye so it can be posted
[21:20] <faulkes-_> 3. The forum council has offered the Ubuntu Server Team moderator priveleges for the Server Platform forum
[21:21] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: great - who are the moderators ?
[21:21] <faulkes-_> specifically, this was sent to me, such that I would be listed as a moderator
[21:21]  * nealmcb is surprised to see the second google hit for "forum ubuntu server team": a microsoft forum page saying "Join the ubuntu home server team - Windows Home Server".  above the ubuntu forums themselves.  need to figure that out 
[21:21] <antdedyet> faulkes-_: it looks like the now named "Server" forums holds all the past data and "Security" was created anew?
[21:21] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: I though about having a way to get feedback from the forums
[21:21] <mathiaz> antdedyet: correct
[21:21] <faulkes-_> my initial reaction was that this would need to be discussed with the group and have agreement that I would take this on
[21:22] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: Most of the people in the team don't go to the forums.
[21:22] <faulkes-_> and secondly, that a secondary person be nominated (volunteer) to be a backup
[21:22] <antdedyet> mathiaz: alright.
[21:22] <faulkes-_> mathiaz: correct, although I did see recent postings from Loye in there
[21:22] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: but having someone compile a list of problems coming up over and over would help.
[21:22] <faulkes-_> so, I am willing to take this on
[21:22] <faulkes-_> with the groups approval
[21:23] <faulkes-_> group's even
[21:23] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: I think it'd be good idea considering that you've already been active in the forums.
[21:23] <faulkes-_> mathiaz: yes, I have a number of thoughts that are along that line
[21:23] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: excellent. Could you send a proposal to ubuntu-server ml with ways to report back to the server team ?
[21:24] <faulkes-_> I was only concerned with getting approval and asking if a secondary volunteer would be interested, for redundancy
[21:24] <faulkes-_> mathiaz: yes, I can do that
[21:24] <mathiaz> faulkes-_: great.
[21:25] <mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes-_ to send an proposal about bringing feedback from the forums to the developer team to ubuntu-server ml.
[21:25] <MootBot> ACTION received:  faulkes-_ to send an proposal about bringing feedback from the forums to the developer team to ubuntu-server ml.
[21:25] <faulkes-_> ok, duly noted that I will take on responsibility for that and as well provide a proposal to the ML on ways to report bak
[21:25] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Ubuntu Community - ml and irc
[21:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Ubuntu Community - ml and irc
[21:25] <mathiaz> dendrobates: ?
[21:26] <dendrobates> mathiaz: it would be nice if we had a group of volunteers that could help users that show up in the irc channel
[21:26] <dendrobates> or the ml.
[21:26] <dendrobates> or if they are lost point them the correct way.
[21:26] <faulkes-> dendro: I have been trying to help as much as possible on irc as well
[21:26]  * ScottK thought we pretty much did already.
[21:26] <nxvl_work> dendrobates: that wouldn't be part of the "tasks" of the sponsor team?
[21:27] <dendrobates> ScottK: we do most of the time.
[21:27] <nxvl_work> i also think ScottK is already doing that job
[21:27] <nxvl_work> he has help me a lot
[21:27] <dendrobates> nxvl_work: that is basically what I am saying is to make sure we include this in the sponsorship program.
[21:27] <nxvl_work> oh ok
[21:28] <dendrobates> ScottK is also not awake 24 hr/day
[21:28] <mathiaz> dendrobates: would you define shifts ?
[21:28] <mathiaz> dendrobates: or having people on duty ?
[21:28] <nxvl_work> so, the sponsors are not only asked to help their mentees but also the new people
[21:28] <dendrobates> I just wanted to open it up for discussion.
[21:28] <antdedyet> I try to help out in #ubuntu-server occasionally too, although I have been somewhat lurking to make sure my answers are on par with what the server team would thinks.
[21:29] <mathiaz> dendrobates: I think we're already good at doing it.
[21:29] <nxvl_work> what we can do
[21:30] <nxvl_work> is to use more often the "offer mentoring" option on LP
[21:30] <faulkes-> I think a better solution is already somewhat it the works, by knowing who works on what (i.e. ScottK on postfix), so that the people who are present can pass along to the appropriate people
[21:30] <dendrobates> I notice in the late evenings EST, people pop in and never get questions answered, and leave.
[21:30] <faulkes-> if they can't answer it directly
[21:30] <nxvl_work> so new people can quick start working on some basic/easy task with someone helping them
[21:30] <nealmcb> my focus on the factoids is a step in that direction
[21:31] <mathiaz> dendrobates: right. But I'm not sure we enough members to covers the IRC channel 24h a day
[21:31] <faulkes-> nealmcb: we should collude, based on what I'm doing in the forums, it is likely I coud help to build out additionals
[21:31] <nealmcb> faulkes-: right on
[21:31] <ScottK> dendrobates: I think with volunteers there is only so far you can go with trying to get coverage.
[21:31] <dendrobates> mathiaz: maybe not yet
[21:31] <faulkes-> ScottK: agreed
[21:32] <faulkes-> but knowing who to point someone to is a big help if you can't answer someone directly
[21:32] <dendrobates> The idea was for there to be more ways that non-programmers can contribute
[21:32]  * faulkes- nods
[21:32] <mathiaz> dendrobates: humm... I see your point.
[21:33] <mathiaz> dendrobates: the GettingInvolved page on w.u.c already list helping out on IRC and ubuntu-server as the easiest way to get involved.
[21:33] <nealmcb> dendrobates: right - and real-time help on irc is one good way to help
[21:33] <nealmcb> sysadmin gurus on call :-)
[21:33] <ScottK> A not unrelated point is that it'd be nice for it to be easier to leverage this work into additional consulting business.  It helps the volunteer motivation.
[21:33] <mathiaz> dendrobates: may be we could give some more advice/help on how to do it.
[21:34] <nealmcb> s/on call/online/ ...
[21:34] <antdedyet> <-- is a freelancing sysadmin >:)
[21:34] <mathiaz> ScottK: right - although I'm not sure if you can find business leads in #ubuntu-server
[21:35] <faulkes-> I think looking for business leads in #ubuntu-server would be a bad idea
[21:35] <faulkes-> we don't want people to think that we charge for support, or give that impression
[21:35] <mathiaz> what about adding a role that covers helping out in #ubuntu-server and ml ?
[21:35] <faulkes-> that's canonical's gambit
[21:35] <nealmcb> faulkes-: and many others....
[21:36] <faulkes-> I think defining "helping out on irc/ml" a little more in-depth would be of greater benefit
[21:36] <ScottK> I don't have a hard time saying that someone has gotten beyond the level of help I'll give for free.
[21:36] <faulkes-> ScottK: understood
[21:36] <antdedyet> == ScottK # we have bills too.
[21:37] <ScottK> Just saying ...
[21:37] <faulkes-> ScottK: however defining that for each individual would be different
[21:37] <faulkes-> and likely to cause issues or give the wrong impression
[21:37] <mathiaz> ScottK: I think that's great. But I wouldn't mention the business side of things as a point to encourage people contributing on #ubuntu-server
[21:38] <faulkes-> mathiaz: agreed
[21:38] <nealmcb> perhaps a factiod on more in-depth help that would point to the web page that lists folks offering support for ubuntu?
[21:38] <mathiaz> so - how could the section on GettingInvolved be improved ?
[21:38] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved
[21:38] <ScottK> mathiaz: Agreed.
[21:38] <dendrobates> mathiaz: but pointing people to a wiki of consultants, when they need extra help might be fine.
[21:39] <mathiaz> dendrobates: sure - I think we should point to the ubuntu marketplace.
[21:39] <ScottK> dendrobates:  +1
[21:39] <mathiaz> dendrobates: that's what it's been created for.
[21:40] <faulkes-> mathiaz: I think to improve the GettingStarted, for irc and the ML we need to define some criteria based upon involvement with the Team
[21:40] <nxvl_work> mathiaz: i think to write it more consistent when i read it a lost myself and don't know to get involved
[21:40] <nealmcb> why does http://www.ubuntu.com/support only point to canonical for Professional support?
[21:41] <nxvl_work> also showing examples of what we do (i.e: putting links to some interesting bugs like postfix dovecot integration)
[21:41] <soren> "Professional support is also available from companies listed as Canonical Partners."
[21:41] <faulkes-> mathiaz: the same suggestion you gave to me about the forums sticky, have the information for becoming a member at the top and bottom
[21:41] <faulkes-> currently it's at the very bottom
[21:41] <nxvl_work> so the ones who read the page can felt in love with the team and his tasks
[21:41] <faulkes-> so it's misleading to people who think to be officially part of the team, they need only be on irc and the ML
[21:42] <ScottK> soren: Is there a pointer on how a small business might become such a Canonical Partner?
[21:42] <jdstrand> ScottK: there is
[21:42] <mathiaz> faulkes-: agreed with a link to become member at the top.
[21:42] <soren> ScottK: Yes.
[21:42] <faulkes-> mathiaz: and I was also add the forums to the list of irc and ml for ways of being involved
[21:43] <jdstrand> ScottK: I forget where off-hand
[21:43]  * ScottK will investigate that then.
[21:43] <soren> ScottK: Not right there, though. It's a bit out of scope for that page.
[21:43] <jdstrand> but I read it once
[21:43] <mathiaz> faulkes-: good idea
[21:43] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to update the GettingInvolved page with a link to the forums.
[21:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to update the GettingInvolved page with a link to the forums.
[21:43] <nealmcb> I still think the ubuntu support page should point to a list of support options that are independent of canonical
[21:44] <nealmcb> though of course I am very appreciative of the many wonderful canonical folks here and in general :-)
[21:44] <antdedyet> ScottK: let me know what you find out -- I'm interested in that too
[21:44] <mathiaz> So to move on, let's talk about the mentoring program.
[21:44] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Community - mentoring
[21:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Community - mentoring
[21:44] <antdedyet> ScottK: that == my business becoming a Ubuntu Partner
[21:44] <soren> antdedyet: http://www.ubuntu.com/partners
[21:45] <zul> nealmcb: i think that might be out of the scope of this meeting
[21:45]  * nealmcb nods
[21:45] <mathiaz> I sent out a proposal and got some feedback, publicly and privately.
[21:45] <dendrobates> nealmcb: we should discuss this later though.
[21:45] <nealmcb> dendrobates: thanks
[21:45] <mathiaz> I plan to create wiki page that outlines the program, what it has to offer to mentee and what is expected from mentors.
[21:46] <antdedyet> soren: Thanks. I will mention my experience later on #ubuntu-server.
[21:46] <mathiaz> Hopefully I'll get something ready for Monday
[21:47] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to create a wiki page about the mentoring program for the server team.
[21:47] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to create a wiki page about the mentoring program for the server team.
[21:47] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] ebox statux
[21:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  ebox statux
[21:47] <nxvl_work> mathiaz: you can base it on the MOTU one
[21:47] <mathiaz> nxvl_work: yes.
[21:47] <nxvl_work> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[21:47] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
[21:47] <mathiaz> zul: how is ebox shapping up ?
[21:48] <nxvl_work> it has good information and also a good format
[21:48] <mathiaz> nxvl_work: will do. thanks.
[21:48] <nxvl_work> np
[21:48] <nxvl_work> :D
[21:48] <zul> mathiaz: its got some issues still i ran it through pbuilder and some of the builds failed, i generated some patches for my work but I got distracted with FF stuff
[21:48] <zul> mostly ServerPackageReview
[21:49] <zul> mathiaz: mostly the issues right now are missing build-depends and policy issues
[21:49] <foolano> zul: i'm one of the eBox developers, feel free to report stuff to me
[21:49] <mathiaz> zul: considering that ebox is affected by FF, what are the chance it gets in ?
[21:49] <zul> mathiaz: still alot of work to do
[21:49] <zul> foolano: hi there
[21:49] <dendrobates> we can ask for an exception.
[21:50]  * nealmcb nods
[21:50] <soren> ScottK: Any chance of granting an exception?
[21:50] <soren> (ISTR you're on the motu-ff team)
[21:51] <mathiaz> foolano: are you using ppa ?
[21:51] <ScottK> soren: I am.  I think it's an excellent candidate, but you'll need to ask when it's ready.
[21:51] <nealmcb> are we still expecting ebox to be in a tasksel?
[21:51] <mathiaz> foolano: it may be a option to get things tested on ubuntu.
[21:51] <nxvl_work> mathiaz: i think his upsream developer
[21:51] <soren> Of course, but if you can "Hell no!" already, we could save ourselves the trouble.
[21:52] <foolano> nxvl_work: we do packaging work too
[21:52] <mathiaz> zul: can you keep foolano in the loop with packaging issues you've seen ?
[21:52] <nealmcb> foolano: thanks for all your work and mesages to date!
[21:52] <zul> mathiaz: yes I can send an email tonight
[21:52] <foolano> i've been working on modify stuff to comply with the debian policy
[21:52] <ScottK> For tasksel it would need to get into Main.
[21:53] <zul> Ill stick my debdiffs up tonight
[21:53] <foolano> we dont overwrite configuration files without ask permission
[21:53] <mathiaz> foolano: excellent !
[21:53] <foolano> and most of the modules are doing that in a very nice way
[21:53] <foolano> the only thing is the packaging
[21:53] <mathiaz> [ACTION] zul to mail foolano the packaging issues he has seen with ebox
[21:53] <MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to mail foolano the packaging issues he has seen with ebox
[21:53] <foolano> it needs some love
[21:53] <foolano> :)
[21:53] <nealmcb> http://trac.ebox-platform.com/roadmap
[21:53] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://trac.ebox-platform.com/roadmap
[21:54] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] MIR status 2 days away from FF
[21:54] <MootBot> New Topic:  MIR status 2 days away from FF
[21:54] <mathiaz> nijaba: what are you concerns about this ?
[21:54] <nijaba> not much, just a general status of where we are
[21:55] <nijaba> snort has been pushed back
[21:55] <nijaba> drdb needs some work
[21:55] <zul> drdb is almost done :)
[21:55] <nijaba> most of the others have been accepted but nee some minor bugfix
[21:55] <ScottK> amavisd-new is approved and hoping for some tasksel love from ivoks.
[21:55] <antdedyet> s/drdb/drbd/g
[21:55] <antdedyet> no?
[21:56] <antdedyet> :)
[21:56] <jdstrand> the nut audit is still on my todo list
[21:57] <mathiaz> ok - seems that we've done well for the MIR process.
[21:57] <mathiaz> nijaba: any outstanding ones ?
[21:57] <nijaba> ok, so everything seems to look good on that front in general...
[21:57] <nijaba> munin has not been reviewed yet
[21:58] <mathiaz> nijaba: have all the mir been reviewed ?
[21:58] <nijaba> mathiaz: ^^
[21:58] <mathiaz> nijaba: only one left ?
[21:58] <nijaba> yep, I beleive so
[21:58] <mathiaz> nijaba: excellent ! :)
[21:59] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[21:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review each section of the ServerTeam/Roadmap.
[21:59] <nijaba> apart from the last one added by support yesterday
[21:59] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[21:59] <ScottK> I've updated the server roadmap with the list of packages needing update to get rid of libdb4.3 (and updated where we are on 4.2).
[21:59] <ScottK> If people want to get some easy packaging experience, that's a place to look.
[21:59] <mathiaz> ScottK: have you filed bug for this ?
[22:00] <mathiaz> ScottK: you can use the sponsor feature then.
[22:01] <ScottK> No.  Just put it on the wiki page.
[22:01] <mathiaz> ScottK: ok.
[22:01] <ScottK> I may do that though.  It's a good idea.
[22:01] <ScottK> Someone else wants to do the launchpad foo, I'll be happy for it.
[22:01] <mathiaz> ScottK: It could be a task to start with.
[22:02] <mathiaz> I'd like to use the sponsor feature more often.
[22:02] <mathiaz> There is also the bitsize tags - that should raise the visibility of tasks so that bug ends up in the MOTU list for example.
[22:03] <mathiaz> dendrobates: how easy is it to join an AD domain now ?
[22:03] <sommer> does the libdb task need to be done before FF?
[22:03] <dendrobates> mathiaz: you already know :)
[22:03] <dendrobates> It is very easy, if your dns is correct.
[22:04] <mathiaz> dendrobates: yes :) - but I'm sure the whole world'd like to be updated ;)
[22:04] <mathiaz> dendrobates: Has the package been published ?
[22:04] <dendrobates> I uploaded likewise-open, but the AA's requested a change.
[22:04] <dendrobates> Just finished fixing it.
[22:05] <mathiaz> dendrobates: so it should hit the archive tomorrow ?
[22:05] <dendrobates> It seems to work, but we could use more testing.
[22:05] <dendrobates> I hope.
[22:05] <nealmcb> is there a tool to file bugs in launchpad based on library dependencies?  seems like a common thing, and helpful for libdb....
[22:05] <mathiaz> nealmcb: not that I know of.
[22:06] <dendrobates> if you want to check it out it is in my ppa.
[22:06] <mathiaz> dendrobates: I've seen some test reports already.
[22:06] <mathiaz> dendrobates: but we need to wait for the package to be published to file bug reports.
[22:06] <ScottK> sommer: No.
[22:07] <dendrobates> https://launchpad.net/~dendrobates/+archive
[22:07] <sommer> ScottK: cool
[22:07] <mathiaz> soren: what's new on the virtualization front ?
[22:08] <soren> Hm..
[22:08] <soren> virtio in the installer is this close: |<--->|
[22:08] <soren> The code is done, it just needs a fresh debian-installer upload to enable it. That's pretty cool.
[22:09] <soren> open-vm-tools will be updated as soon as this meeting is over, so I can get to upload it.
[22:09] <soren> dnsmasq-base and netcat-openbsd landed, so now we have dhcp/dns for virtual networks and remote management without any fuss.
[22:09] <soren> That's the highlights, I believe.
[22:10] <mathiaz> soren: great.
[22:10] <mathiaz> jdstrand: ufw ?
[22:10] <nijaba> soren: what about vm-builder?
[22:10] <soren> Will upload tomorrow.
[22:10] <jdstrand> ufw 0.12 has been accepted in to main
[22:10] <nijaba> \o/
[22:10] <jronnblom> soren: do you fix the problem with loading the vmxnet in open-vm-tools? Or perhaps we shoudl discuss this privately after the meeting?
[22:10] <nijaba> \o/ x 2
[22:10] <jdstrand> sommer has been updating documentation
[22:11] <nealmcb> soren: and you're a cnet news authority :-)
[22:11] <soren> jronnblom: Er... I'm unfamiliar with "the problem with loading vmxnet in open-vm-tools". AFter the meeting sounds good.
[22:11] <nijaba> soren is a MOVW ;)
[22:11] <zul> heh soren is a rockstar
[22:11] <soren> MOVW?
[22:12] <mathiaz> soren: you've also been doing some work on iscsi ?
[22:12] <nijaba> master of virtual world
[22:12] <soren> I have. It's been integrated into the installer (pass iscsi=true to the kernel, and you win).
[22:12] <soren> nijaba: Ah. :)
[22:12] <soren> It's sort of blocked on new installer as well (kernel support).
[22:13] <mathiaz> zul: news on xen ?
[22:13] <zul> mathiaz: we fixed a libxen issue and getting some bug reports about things
[22:13] <mathiaz> dendrobates: did you get a chance to test libvirt with xen ?
[22:13] <zul> and which I will fix of course
[22:14] <dendrobates> nope.  there were version issues.
[22:14] <dendrobates> I had eto move on.
[22:14] <dendrobates> I can test it with the new libvirt that soren just uploaded.
[22:15] <mathiaz> on the ldap front, jdstrand has been filing bug about openldap2.4
[22:15] <dendrobates> after FF.
[22:15] <mathiaz> and things are been fixed by slangasek.
[22:15] <mathiaz> jdstrand: is there a lot of failure left in openldap 2.4 ?
[22:16] <jdstrand> TLSCipherSuite needs to be migrated as gnutls does is differently than openssl
[22:16] <jdstrand> if you leave that out, TLS/SSL works fine
[22:16] <jdstrand> I found where SASL was failing, and slangasek said he fixed it
[22:17] <mathiaz> what about migration ?
[22:17] <jdstrand> the only thing left is proxy cache fails our qa-regression-tests
[22:17] <jdstrand> mathiaz: with openssl, you can do TLSCipherSuite HIGH
[22:17] <mathiaz> are there issues in upgrading from the openldap version in dapper ?
[22:18] <jdstrand> gnutls doesn't understand 'HIGH', but it has its own adjectives
[22:18] <jdstrand> mathiaz: if people use TLSCipherSuite, TLS/SSL will not work
[22:18] <jdstrand> and openldap may not start, depending
[22:19] <mathiaz> jdstrand: is slangasek dealing with this case in the postinst script ?
[22:19] <jdstrand> oh, you also need the new ssl-cert which fixes the snakoil certificate for use with gnutls (IIUC)
[22:19] <jdstrand> slangasek is handling that, and is aware of the issues.
[22:19] <mathiaz> excellent.
[22:19] <jdstrand> mathiaz: I am not sure of his plans
[22:20] <mathiaz> so let's finish this review with documentation.
[22:20] <mathiaz> sommer: how is the server guide going ?
[22:20] <sommer> good good... should have extensions for the bacula, virt, open-likewise sections
[22:21] <sommer> jdstrand mentioned the ufw section... which turned out to be an overhaul of the firewall section
[22:21] <jdstrand> sommer has done a great job
[22:21] <mathiaz> sommer: is there a place where the latest dev version of the guide available ?
[22:21]  * jdstrand thanks sommer :)
[22:22] <ivoks> soomer always does a great job
[22:22] <sommer> jdstrand: thanks
[22:22] <mathiaz> sommer: how do you think managing reviews ?
[22:22] <ivoks> doh.. sommer too :)
[22:22] <sommer> mathiaz: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/ubuntu-hardy
[22:22] <mathiaz> sommer: right - that's the source.
[22:22] <mathiaz> sommer: I was think about an online version.
[22:22] <sommer> mathiaz: right... nope there isn't currently a HTML version
[22:22] <mathiaz> sommer: so that we can ask people to go over the server guide and reviewing it.
[22:23] <nealmcb> is there any sort of ubuntu server faq?
[22:23] <mathiaz> sommer: it would lower the barrier for doc reviewing.
[22:23] <sommer> there are some bugs about doc.u.c being out of date
[22:23] <mathiaz> nealmcb: not that I know of.
[22:23] <nijaba> sommer: what is http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/ ?  it shows 8.04 at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/serverguide/C/preparing-to-install.html
[22:23] <mathiaz> nealmcb: what would you put in it ?
[22:23] <nealmcb> mathiaz: the sorts of questions that come up on irc and the forums
[22:24] <mathiaz> nealmcb: isn't that what the factoids are for ?
[22:24] <nealmcb> it is such a common term (faq) that we might benefit from having a wiki page of that sort
[22:24] <sommer> nijaba: probably a DocBook macro that inserted the latest release number into the HTML
[22:24] <mathiaz> nealmcb: right. But a faq targeted at users, not developers.
[22:24] <nealmcb> I don't think we have a list of server-related factoids anywhere, and having that as a google target might help
[22:25] <nijaba> right...
[22:25] <nealmcb> mathiaz: right
[22:25] <mathiaz> nealmcb: that would be great.
[22:26] <mathiaz> nealmcb: however we'd have a way to figure out what are the most common questions asked on irc, ml forums.
[22:26] <nealmcb> faulkes-: collecting the forum input on the wiki and pointing folks at the wiki for faqs would be great
[22:26] <sommer> I can ping Mathew East about the status of doc.u., I think he was given shell access
[22:26] <mathiaz> let's see how we can deal with the content coming from the forums and integrate it into a faq.
[22:27] <mathiaz> sommer: that would be great, especially during reviews.
[22:27] <faulkes-> nealmcb: noted
[22:27] <nealmcb> :-)
[22:27] <mathiaz> sommer: could you send an email to ubuntu-doc about this ?
[22:27] <sommer> mathiaz: sure
[22:28] <mathiaz> [ACTION] sommer to send an email to ubuntu-doc about having an html version of the latest server guide online available during reviews.
[22:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sommer to send an email to ubuntu-doc about having an html version of the latest server guide online available during reviews.
[22:28] <mathiaz> I think that's all for the Roadmap.
[22:28] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[22:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[22:29] <mathiaz> anyone want to add something ?
[22:30] <nealmcb> good meeting!  Seems like hardy is coming along pretty well - congrats, folks!
[22:30] <ubuntugeek> Howdy all
[22:30] <TechnoViking> howdy
[22:30] <forumsmatthew> hello
[22:30] <nijaba> thanks mathiaz
[22:30] <ubuntugeek> Mike, Matthew.. howdy
[22:31] <ubuntugeek> Glad you could make it matthew
[22:31] <forumsmatthew> how is everyone?
[22:31] <TechnoViking> does the server team need anymore time?
[22:31] <forumsmatthew> thanks
[22:31] <mathiaz> TechnoViking: not.
[22:31] <mathiaz> just a minute
[22:31] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[22:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
[22:32] <mathiaz> next week, same place, same time ?
[22:32]  * nealmcb nods
[22:32] <sommer> +1
[22:32] <mathiaz> ok - great then
[22:32] <mathiaz> thanks all.
[22:32] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[22:32] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:32.
[22:32] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
[22:33] <faulkes-> good meeting, later all
[22:33] <TechnoViking> ok everyone ready?
[22:33] <forumsmatthew> all set here
[22:33] <TechnoViking> [22:33] <TechnoViking> hey jdong
[22:34] <ubuntugeek> Well our agenda is pretty light.. The first Item has already been done.
[22:34] <forumsmatthew> cool
[22:34] <forumsmatthew> I haven't even had a chance to look
[22:34] <forumsmatthew> what is item two?
[22:35] <vorian> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda
[22:35] <forumsmatthew> thank you, vorian
[22:35] <vorian> np
[22:35] <ubuntugeek> Item two is an idea I got from another forum to differentiate staff posts from normal users. It seems to work pretty.. It might not work for us but its worth discussing I think
[22:35] <jdong> ubuntugeek: I think it is important to distinguish staff in a simple manner
[22:35]  * PriceChild waves
[22:35] <vorian> ubuntugeek: i like the sound of it
[22:36] <forumsmatthew> I can see how it would be useful for moderation tasks, but I don't know that I would like it all the time
[22:36] <jdong> but I think anything done to the post text can be faked by users, or appear too annoying
[22:36] <forumsmatthew> can it be toggled on/off?
[22:36] <jdong> forumsmatthew: like a "staff hat"? :)
[22:36] <forumsmatthew> yeah, something like that
[22:36] <ubuntugeek> Well I was thinking the text color would stay the same, but the background of the post would be different.
[22:36] <TechnoViking> good point matthew
[22:37] <PriceChild> I wouldn't like it unless it was "optin" on a post by post basis.
[22:37] <forumsmatthew> we always wear our red name badges and have custom user titles/icons, so people pretty much know we are staff
[22:37] <forumsmatthew> the different background sounds neat
[22:37] <forumsmatthew> I'm not sure it would be universally useful, though
[22:38] <forumsmatthew> do you have a link to a forum or two where you have seen it in use?
[22:38] <ubuntugeek> Sounds good, was just a suggestion..
[22:38] <forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, you know I love new toys...
[22:38] <forumsmatthew> especially shiny ones
[22:38] <ubuntugeek> Well everyone generally doesnt like it, I can tell.. So no reason to put work into something people wont like :)
[22:39] <vorian> I like the idea
[22:39] <ubuntugeek> Or find usefull
[22:39] <forumsmatthew> that's probably true, though
[22:39] <forumsmatthew> sorry
[22:40] <forumsmatthew> I do like the toys and shiny stuff, but this one doesn't seem real valuable to me
[22:40] <forumsmatthew> for our purposes
[22:40] <ubuntugeek> anything else?
[22:40] <forumsmatthew> now, in another context...
[22:40] <forumsmatthew> I don't have anything else
[22:40] <forumsmatthew> and I'm tired and in ramble mode...
[22:40] <ubuntugeek> :)
[22:40] <TechnoViking> :)
[22:40] <ubuntugeek> mike you plan on replying to my private msg?
[22:41] <forumsmatthew> blah blah blah blah blah
[22:41] <TechnoViking> when did you send it?
[22:41] <ubuntugeek> like 10 mins ago
[22:41] <ubuntugeek> doesn't matter..
[22:41] <ubuntugeek> Anyways, I got nothing.  I got vb3.7 setup so we can start testing that. I'll post the link
[22:41] <TechnoViking> I got got out of a meeting, and went directly into irc
[22:42] <forumsmatthew> ubuntugeek, PM me the link and I'll start testing in the morning
[22:42] <TechnoViking> UG: did not get the msg, sorry
[22:42] <vorian> just as a matter of record, ajmorris is now the team leader of the Unanswered Posts team.
[22:42] <ubuntugeek> Will do.. I'll post it in the staff area
[22:43] <ubuntugeek> Also  faulkes is a moderator in the server platform forum.
[22:43] <ubuntugeek> the FC was CC'd on the email
[22:44] <vorian> is mssever still considered a team leader on the UA team?
[22:44] <TechnoViking> FYI, I think Jono is working on a dov for membership approval for team councils
[22:44] <TechnoViking> dov =doc
[22:44] <ubuntugeek> Sounds good Mike
[22:45] <vorian> should we set a meeting time/date for next month?
[22:45] <ubuntugeek> I should just mention really quick.. So everyone is prepared, when we launch the upgrade to vb 3.7 categories will be consolidated and we will be moving to a thread prefix/tagging system.
[22:46] <forumsmatthew> cool. Is this version better (less server intensive) than the earlier version of tagging we tried?
[22:46] <forumsmatthew> If so, it should certainly help with searching issues
[22:46] <ubuntugeek> March, 12th 22:30 ?
[22:46] <forumsmatthew> looks good to me
[22:46] <ubuntugeek> The functionality is built into vb3.7 so its not a hack
[22:47] <TechnoViking> good with me
[22:47] <forumsmatthew> excellent!
[22:47] <ubuntugeek> Yep!
[22:47] <vorian> cool, I'll get it set up then :)
[22:48] <ubuntugeek> Awesome thanks vorian!
[22:48] <forumsmatthew> thank you
[22:48] <ubuntugeek> Anything else? Next month I would like to discuss the vb3.7 after everyone has had time to test it out
[22:48] <vorian> it's been eerily quiet lately :)
[22:49] <vorian> Hardy is gonna rock
[22:49] <ubuntugeek> And discuss how we can remove some of the hacked in functions and replace them with core vb functions
[22:49] <TechnoViking> nothing here
[22:49] <vorian> so this next cycle will be fun
[22:49] <forumsmatthew> I will start playing with 3.7 asap...probably tomorrow
[22:52] <ubuntugeek> Agreed!
[22:53] <forumsmatthew> I predict the forums will continue to grow at an increasing rate
[22:53] <ubuntugeek> Well thats a given :P
[22:53] <forumsmatthew> ;)
[22:53] <TechnoViking> ok
[22:53] <TechnoViking> [22:53] <ubuntugeek> Thanks all.. until next time.
[22:54] <forumsmatthew> catch you later!
[22:54] <TechnoViking> later all
[22:54] <PriceChild> when's 3.7 being released?
[22:54] <PriceChild> is there a date?
[22:54] <ubuntugeek> Still in beta..  Beta 4
[22:54] <forumsmatthew> I need sleep...see you all later
[22:54] <ubuntugeek> We'll probably upgrade before its released as we have in the past. It depends on how it goes with testing.
[22:55] <ubuntugeek> See ya all later.