=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team
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=== bluemonkey is now known as deeeeeepbluemonk
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=== deeeeeepbluemonk is now known as emonkey
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
=== mvo__ is now known as mvo
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team
* mvo_ waves13:55
* tedg yawns13:58
pedro_hello folks !13:58
Keybuknow, I would normally at this point be checking the wiki14:00
Keybukand loading up Launchpad14:00
Keybukexcept neither epiphany or firefox want to play with me14:01
kwwiiRiddell: it is a bit early to say that :-)14:01
Riddellkwwii: moin14:01
seb128Keybuk: did you upgrade epiphany?14:01
* MacSlow feels not so well today14:01
seb128Keybuk: it has been fixed this morning and the new version is available for a few hours now14:02
Keybukseb128: I upgraded a couple of hours ago, but I've been in meetings with Mark since then14:02
seb128maybe you got the xulrunner update but not the epiphany one14:02
asacKeybuk: blame me ;)14:02
Keybukfirefox is being held now14:03
KeybukFeature Freeze14:03
Keybuk*scary music*14:03
MacSlowI hate that "sound"14:03
KeybukI'll run down specs in alphabetical order that aren't marked Beta Available yet14:03
MacSlowand most of that because I suck at packaing14:04
Keybukan update on where it is, what bits remain, etc. would be appreciated14:04
* MacSlow steps at the front of the queue14:04
Keybukpitti: partition-management14:04
pittifsck usplash integration is beta available, rest not started14:04
Keybuk(I may have lied about alphabetical order, I've clicked something on LP and it's gone random on me)14:04
pittiI might get to it a bit later, so that it'll either land in hardy+1, hardy.1, or hardy if I get a FF exception14:05
Keybukok, we talked about this on the phone yesterday - the other bits are a "nice to have" but we won't mind if we don't get them14:05
pittibut it's low prio14:05
Keybukso it's a good side project while you fix bugs, but don't spend much time on it14:05
Keybukit can go in a PPA, or it might make the release14:05
pittiI definitively need to sort out root partition fsck, though14:05
Keybukyes, that would be very good14:05
Keybukwhat's the timescale on that?14:06
pittiit works with ext3, but immediately kills your reiserfs root partition :)14:06
pittiKeybuk: today is crazy (merging Arne's langpack stuff, MIRs, NEW, etc.)14:06
pittiis 'by next meeting' acceptable?14:06
pitti(note that I didn't modify checkroot.sh for that reason, it won't kill kittens until then)14:06
kwwiireiserfs killing things, like father like son?14:07
MacSlowkwwii, that was nasty14:07
kwwiiI'll shut up now14:07
mvo_pitti: the langpack changes are in?14:07
pittimvo_: I spent an hour reviewing and fixing the branch, not yet14:07
pittiI'll continue after meeting14:07
pittibut I shuold be able to get it in today14:07
tedgkwwii: Oh, I was thinking that too -- couldn't figure out phrasing :)14:07
mvo_pitti: ok, language-selector need to be updated then as well14:07
pittimvo_: why?14:08
pittimvo_: we still have language-support-XX meta-meta-packages14:08
mvo_pitti: aha, good. then its not a must-have14:08
pittior do you actually want to add knobs for part installations?14:08
pittilike, 'only input support and translation aids'?14:08
Keybukpitti: by next meeting would be great14:08
mvo_it was planed to add the knobs, but I'm not sure how far arne went down this path14:08
pittiKeybuk: ack14:09
mvo_pitti: I personally think that its not that important, the common case is well covered, I will still double check that the transition does not break assumptions in it14:09
* pitti hugs mvo_14:09
Keybukpitti: hardy-reducing-duplication14:10
pittithat has come quite far14:10
pittiI hope that we can kill gcc-4.1 when the kernel folks manage to build with 4.2 on ppc and hppa14:10
pittithe rest is "utterly hard and requires lots of upstream work" and thus unrealistic14:11
KeybukI assume that there's no major pieces of work there, other than killing more deps?14:11
pittiright; as I wrote in the status window yesterday, it's just gcc-4.1 left for hardy14:11
pittiperhaps db4.2 if a miracle happens with openldap14:11
pittibut that's a target of opportunity14:11
Keybukok, cool14:12
KeybukRiddell: gold star ;)14:12
Keybukmvo_: likewise14:12
* mvo_ beams14:13
Keybukkwwii: your specs should probably not have been specs14:13
kwwiiKeybuk: yeah, I am glad that we agree on that :-)14:13
KeybukMacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-shortcuts14:13
MacSlowKeybuk, are exposed in pager, show-desktop-applet and window-action-menu14:14
Keybukwhat's missing on the spec?14:14
MacSlowmost of the stuff needed to patch libwnck14:14
Keybukthat gives us which bits?14:14
MacSlowKeybuk, nothing I guess14:15
Keybukare the keyboard shortcuts showing up in the general preferences dialog?14:15
pittiI get kb shortcuts help in the pager and in the window menu now14:15
MacSlowthere's a small tweak I still like to do for the pager-tooltip... have the stuff for expo, scale and zoom only show up if these plugins are actually active14:16
MacSlowKeybuk, that's what mvo did14:16
Keybukthey don't show up here :-/14:16
MacSlowKeybuk, and that's... urps14:16
mvo_Keybuk: oh? they should be available under compiz14:16
Keybukmvo_: that sounds like a bug ;)14:16
mvo_Keybuk: however there is a bug in super key14:16
mvo_Keybuk: I mean, the super key is not displayed nor can be set14:17
Keybukyeah, my oldest reported Ubuntu bug <g>14:17
seb128mvo_: there is no compiz in the shortcuts dialog14:17
mvo_I think I can fix the display bit14:17
mvo_its under desktop14:17
KeybukMacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-profiles14:17
Keybukmvo_: oh, wait "initiate window picker" ?14:17
mvo_the descriptions suck14:18
MacSlowKeybuk, stuck about "half-way-through" due to packaging issues14:18
mvo_but that can be fixed realtively easily14:18
KeybukMacSlow: what are the packaging problems?14:18
seb128MacSlow: feel free to ask on #ubuntu-desktop when you have packaging issues14:18
loolYeah, same offer here; plenty of packager around to help you :)14:18
seb128or in query14:18
mvo_from me14:18
KeybukMacSlow: sounds like there's plenty of people to help ;)14:19
MacSlowKeybuk, profile selection and recognition in g-c-c works... simple-ccsm bits still todo... all of it not in repos yet due to me sucking at packaging (being slow)14:19
* Keybuk has had a lunch-time conversation with mdz today about sucking less at a company at getting training for new people14:20
MacSlowKeybuk, beta for profiles is +2 days I guess14:20
Keybukespecially in packaging, but also in things like our release cycle, processes, etc.14:20
MacSlowKeybuk, lost some days last week due to packaing issues14:20
KeybukMacSlow: ok, let us say Thursday next week for -profiles14:20
MacSlowKeybuk, that sounds doable14:20
Keybukthere weren't any remaining pieces in hardy-desktop-effects right?14:21
MacSlowKeybuk, no... was more of a "meta-spec" and umbrella for profiles, shortcuts and general integration work14:21
Keybuk(the remaining pieces on my list are covered by profiles)14:21
Keybukthat's beta available then <g>14:21
Keybukplease update the status14:21
MacSlowKeybuk, well if I get libcompizconfig and g-c-c sorted out packagin-wise part of it can already land today14:22
Keybukhardy-shine and sparkle aren't really on the 8.04 list, and neither is gdm-face-browser (though it's targetted for May)14:22
MacSlowKeybuk, only creating a custom-profile via simple-ccsm will probably not land today14:22
Keybukok, thanks14:23
Keybuktedg: about-this-computer14:23
tedgI need to finish the package, but that should be done today.14:23
Keybukdo you need help with the packaging?14:23
MacSlowKeybuk, I'm looking forward to continue working on those... mostly because that's a bit more focues and sounds less like packaing-work needed ehre and there :)14:23
tedgI got all the python build stuff done yesterday, but starting on Debian stuff today.14:23
tedgKeybuk: Not yet :)  I probably will later today.14:24
KeybukMacSlow: we do need to get you up to speed on packaging though14:24
seb128same sa MacSlow, feel free to ask on IRC or by mail since it's harder to use on IRC when on different timezones14:24
KeybukI'll sort something out and let you know as soon as I can14:24
Riddelltedg: how's the qt side?14:24
tedgRiddell: Not great, but I was told that can be a bugfix and wasn't required for FF.14:24
Keybukkwwii: I might rope you into that too, since it'd help you unblock artwork issues if you know the basics14:24
MacSlowKeybuk, seb128: yes... some intense "become a real MOTU/deb-dev" is something I seriously need14:24
kwwiiKeybuk: okidoki14:24
tedgRiddell: I also need to figure out which KDE package to adjust to put it somewhere.14:25
Riddelltedg: right14:25
tedgRiddell: I figure I'll ask when I have the QT one working better.14:25
tedgI do also have a gnome-panel patch that puts it in the panel.14:25
Riddelltedg: that's not hard, although it does need doing twice for KDEs 3 and 414:25
=== mvo_ is now known as mvo
Keybukcleanup-audio-jumble I think colin was going to track that with Luke and ask you for help as needed?  or are there remaining bits on your plate?14:26
MacSlowseb128, isn't there also some deb-dev related talk at FOSDEM next week?14:26
tedgThere are a couple of remaining bits on my plate.  Not a lot though, Luke already had a lot done.14:26
Keybukcould you send me a mail cataloguing the remaining bits there?14:27
RiddellMacSlow: I'm doing that14:27
MacSlowRiddell, ok... then I'll be in the audience!14:27
tedgKeybuk: Sounds good.14:28
Keybukseb128: you have a pppoeconf-gui assigned to you?14:28
Keybukdidn't that one get a "go straight to implemented, thanks upstream!" pass?14:29
seb128Keybuk: yes it did14:29
Keybukah, it's beta available14:29
KeybukI'm blind14:29
loolSo that's provided by NM now?14:30
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
Keybuklool: gnome-system-tools iirc14:31
seb128lool: yes, network-admin does that14:31
Keybukok, I'd like to run back through you all again to confirm what you'll be working on for the next couple of months14:31
loolIndeed, 2.21.3, pretty cool14:31
Keybuk(not just for yours and my sake, but for the rest of the team as well :p)14:32
* lool will try the UMTS support then14:32
seb128lool: you are welcome to test if you use pppoe ;-)14:32
seb128that too14:32
Keybukmpt is on leave, but he'll be working on some early sketches and mockups for the 8.10 UI Refresh14:32
lool(I don't have pppoe that I know of)14:32
Keybukhe's also available for UI critique/help, but as we get closer to Beta, UI shouldn't be changing much :-)14:32
Keybukkwwii: what will you be working on?14:32
kwwiiKeybuk: finishing up the UI mockups, finalizing panel icons, getting the wallpaper for 8.04 ready, looking in to making that look good with gdm14:33
KeybukUI mockups for the 8.10 theme?14:34
kwwiioh, and the clear looks stuff14:34
Keybukwhen's the clearlooks change likely to happen?14:34
kwwiiKeybuk: yes14:34
Keybukand when will we see the first 8.04 wallpaper idea?14:34
seb128Keybuk: when will mpt be back?14:34
kwwiiKeybuk: I would like to test it out in the next day or two14:34
Keybukseb128: monday14:34
kwwiiKeybuk: the first one should be in already (if pitti or seb included it yesterday)14:34
seb128doh, didn't14:35
kwwiiI put the source package online for them to check14:35
seb128pitti: did you? ;-)14:35
pittio_O? no, I'm not aware of it14:35
pittiI don't have a mail about it14:35
seb128I've been busy debugging g-p-m and forget14:35
seb128pitti: he asked on #ubuntu-desktop14:35
* pitti looks in his spam folder14:35
pittioh, then I probably missed that, sorry; I get too much IRC stuff ATM (FF crazyness)14:35
seb128pitti: yesterday afternoon14:35
seb128no problem14:36
Keybukok, which of you will do that for Ken? :)14:36
seb128I said I would look at it if you didn't and I've been busy with other things14:36
seb128kwwii: what is the URL again?14:36
kwwiiseb128, pitti: I'll send an email with the urls14:36
Keybukso for 8.04, we're using clearlooks and having new wallpaper14:36
pittiso, no ubuntu theme any more?14:37
seb128kwwii: don't bother I'll look at it now14:37
kwwiiand perhaps a gdm update14:37
Keybuk8.10 you're preparing some mock-ups I can hand around when I'm in the office next week (so, err, soon please :p)14:37
seb128Keybuk: that is good news ;-)14:37
seb128clearlooks with orange colors, right?14:37
kwwiiKeybuk: right, I'll get that done by tomorrow14:37
pittiheh, and I was about to report a bug report against compiz which always has blue window decorations at startup until I start gnome-appearance-properties :)14:37
Keybuktedg: what will you be working on?14:37
Keybukpitti: metacity does that too sometimes, apparentlyt14:37
mvopitti: meh, a race condition14:38
seb128pitti: that's a known bug, I've been pinged mvo every now and then about it :-)14:38
mvoseb128: you have fix, no?14:38
mvoits just not applied yet because I'm not 100% confident in it14:38
seb128Keybuk: that would be weird, never noticed that, but compiz does it almost every time14:38
seb128mvo: well, using dbus again for the decorator14:38
pittinever saw it with metacity either14:38
Keybukseb128: desrt thought it was pretty, and made a real theme that does it on purpose14:38
tedgKeybuk: Audio jumble bits probably first, as to get that out of the way.  Then I need to really start on GPM bugs, I've let it linger and they've collected.14:38
Keybuktedg: *nods* :-)14:39
seb128Keybuk: ;-)14:39
Keybuktedg: and gnome-screensaver needs some harsh love too14:39
seb128tedg: agree, I started looking at those yesterday, they is 300 bugs, 200 of them are NEW which means ignored14:39
MacSlowseb128, aren't these bugs mostly compiz/DRI issues?14:40
seb128maybe we can convince pedro_ to organise a bug day to clean some of those ;-)14:40
tedgYeah, the crux of the problem is trying to figure out where in the system things broke down.  Half the time GPM is just the messenger.14:40
kwwiiKeybuk: btw, I sent you a tar.bz2 with the raw pics for the 8.10 mockups a few days ago14:40
pedro_seb128: only if we have some debugging instructions ;-)14:40
Keybuktedg: if you need a hand understanding HAL, pitti can help14:40
pittitedg: right, I guess many hw specific issues are hal or pm-utils bugs14:40
seb128MacSlow: the theme one? it's a race between the gnome-settings-daemon and the decorator14:40
Keybukif you need a hand with packaging, anyone can help14:40
Keybukkwwii: you did indeed :-)14:41
MacSlowseb128, no the 200 new screensaver-bugs14:41
seb128MacSlow: I was speaking about gnome-power-manager14:41
KeybukRiddell: what will you be doing?14:41
mvoMacSlow: there shouldn't be many, we run fullscreen windows unredirected14:41
MacSlowseb128, mixed up the context then14:41
seb128tedg: ^ what pedro said, if you could write a wiki page on how to triage g-p-m bugs that would be useful14:41
RiddellKeybuk: KDE 4 CDs (just stuck on a bug, I think cjwatson_ needs to look), KDE 3.5.9 packaging, KDE 4.0.2 packaging, getting out all the bugs in the hardy features14:41
mvoso games are (most of the time) fine too14:41
MacSlowmvo, that's what got me wondering14:41
KeybukRiddell: did you get unblocked on the seeds?  have you spoken to colin about the bug?14:41
RiddellKeybuk: yes, spent most of yesterday working on it with his help14:42
mvopedro_ is a wizard, he did wonders on the update-manager bug count (similar problem, most of the time its just the messanger)14:42
MacSlowmvo, all of these issues never happened to me after gutsy was released... maybe a bit earlier14:42
tedgseb128, pedro_: My goal was to go through and start triaging to write the instructions.14:42
pedro_i was about to organize one based on pidgin next week but we can delay that and organize a gpm one14:42
RiddellKeybuk: it's all there but breaks somewhere that I can't work out14:42
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
Keybukcjwatson: ^ :-)14:42
cjwatsonyeah, I saw, it's something to do with the universe mirroring process14:43
* pedro_ hugs mvo14:43
seb128tedg: good14:43
tedgpedro_: No, I think two would be better, give me a chance to get some good instructions together.14:43
cjwatsonI've seen it before in other flavours that build from universe14:43
cjwatsonI'm happy that the bulk of the work is in place though14:43
* seb128 hugs pedro_14:43
pedro_tedg: ok cool!14:43
* pedro_ hugs seb128 back14:43
cjwatsonRiddell: I actually suspect that it would work eventually if you kept retrying - it's a race between the main and universe mirroring processes AFAICS14:44
Keybukpitti: what will you be working on?14:44
pittimy next tasks, in decreasing priority: discuss some language-support-* reorganization problems with Arne (will slip FF then, as he is already asleep), debug and fix the fsck+usplash+rootfs issue, start working on general bug fixing and catc14:44
pittihing up on my bugs folder14:44
pittiso I already need a FF exception for the language-support-* split14:45
pitti(which is relatively unintrusive, but arne put in loads of new packages which need review and discussion)14:45
pittifor the record, we are currently on top of the MIR queue \o/14:47
Keybuklots and lots of general bug fixing? :)14:47
pitti(almost all bugs are incomplete or done)14:47
loolpitti: Cool, thanks for the UME stuff, that was probably lots of work!14:47
pittiKeybuk: my "in progress" list needs urgent attention :)14:47
Keybukmvo: and how about you?14:48
mvonext tasks:14:48
mvo• update-manager bugfixing, more robustness14:48
mvo• compiz updates for the upcomming fusion 0.7 release14:48
mvo• trying to catchup on my bug mail14:48
mvoupgrade testing14:48
mvogeneral maintainance (desktop database update, command-not-found data update, ddtp update)14:48
Keybukmvo: if you could take first-pass over compiz bugs (Mirco has some 8.10 things to deliver early) that would be much appreciated14:48
* mvo nods14:48
mvosure, I will do that14:48
KeybukMacSlow: ?14:49
* MacSlow thanks mvo too14:49
MacSlow* finish desktop-effect-profiles14:49
MacSlow* sparkle14:49
MacSlow* shine14:49
MacSlow* gdm-face-browser14:49
Keybukso to expand on that for the others14:50
KeybukMark is very keen for us to demonstrate some of the 8.10 pieces early14:50
MacSlow(in between getting up to speed with Xorg/DRI, clutter and some newer OpenGL-stuff)14:50
Keybuk(ie. at UDS)14:50
Keybukthe chosen piece is face browser14:50
Keybukso Mirco will be implementing that before UDS, so we can show it off there14:50
Keybukand will therefore beat everyone at getting the first Implemented hardy+1 spec :-)14:51
Keybuk(those who've been at this company for a while will recognise that "very keen" is an understatement :p)14:51
Keybukand last, but no means least14:53
KeybukLoic and Seb14:53
MacSlowKeybuk, I guess it means it the highest prio it can ever have, right?! :)14:53
seb128GNOME updates and desktop bugs fixing14:53
loolFor the desktop half of things:14:54
lool• Continue misc stuff; usually GNOME updates and bug chasing14:54
lool• If time permits, resume work on the "memory requirements" topic14:54
Keybukand pedro_ will be helping us with QA wherever it's needed14:55
seb128lot of testing, making sure all strings are translatable, etc too14:55
Keybukexcept those "   " ones that preferences dialogs seem to like? :)14:56
seb128pedro_ rocks on desktop bug triage ;-)14:56
pittihas there been any outcome on login speed testing?14:56
seb128pitti: not really, we could win a bit without deskbar-applet14:56
seb128otherwise to obvious target14:56
seb128gconf and disk fragmentation don't help14:56
seb128there is some user comments about readahead on the launchpad bug saying that makes quite a difference but nobody really worked on a clean solution to do that yet14:57
loolIf gconf's disk fragmentation is an issue, we could schedule a periodical check like fsck to rebuild the gconf tree on login14:57
Keybukok, I've got to run to the team leads meeting now, so I'll have to adjourn the meeting :)14:57
Keybukwe've hit an hour anyway14:57
Keybukif there are other agenda items, please carry on and discuss, and I'll keep an eye on the log14:58
pittithanks everyone14:58
mvoI would like to ask about the feeling of samba-share vs. shares-admin (from gnome-system-tools)14:58
MacSlowok... I'll get back to my packaing-battle... and come crying in #ubuntu-devel if I'm totally lost14:59
mvoIMHO the samba-shares has the nicer gui and seems to be generally easier now that we have the samba usershares enabled by default14:59
MacSlowRiddell, ehm... when is you talk at fosdem?15:10
MacSlowRiddell, I just skimmed the pages on the fosdem'08 site and did not find it15:10
pittimvo: where does samba-share come from? not g-s-t apparently?15:11
RiddellMacSlow: http://www.fosdem.org/2008/schedule/devroom/crossdesktop15:13
mvopitti: nautilus-share is a seperate package (sorry for the confusion with the packagename)15:13
mvoits in the archive already15:13
mvonot enough sleep :/15:14
MacSlowRiddell, ah thanks!15:14
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
zul@schedule montreal16:37
ubotuSchedule for America/Montreal: 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 14:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team16:37
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=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
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=== Toadstoo1 is now known as Toadstool
vince-rougeheu hello21:44
=== Martinp24 is now known as Martinp23
=== czessi_ is now known as Czessi

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