=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team === emonkey is now known as bluemonkey === bluemonkey is now known as deeeeeepbluemonk === Varka_ is now known as Varka === asac_ is now known as asac === deeeeeepbluemonk is now known as emonkey === _czessi is now known as Czessi === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson === mvo__ is now known as mvo === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team [13:54] hi [13:55] * mvo_ waves [13:58] * tedg yawns [13:58] abend [13:58] hello folks ! [14:00] ... [14:00] ... [14:00] now, I would normally at this point be checking the wiki [14:00] and loading up Launchpad [14:01] except neither epiphany or firefox want to play with me [14:01] Riddell: it is a bit early to say that :-) [14:01] :-( [14:01] links! [14:01] kwwii: moin [14:01] hi [14:01] Keybuk: did you upgrade epiphany? [14:01] * MacSlow feels not so well today [14:02] Keybuk: it has been fixed this morning and the new version is available for a few hours now [14:02] seb128: I upgraded a couple of hours ago, but I've been in meetings with Mark since then [14:02] ok [14:02] maybe you got the xulrunner update but not the epiphany one [14:02] Keybuk: blame me ;) [14:03] maybe [14:03] firefox is being held now [14:03] *shrug* [14:03] Annnnnyway [14:03] Feature Freeze [14:03] *scary music* [14:03] I hate that "sound" [14:03] TEH DAY OF RECKONING! [14:03] I'll run down specs in alphabetical order that aren't marked Beta Available yet [14:04] and most of that because I suck at packaing [14:04] an update on where it is, what bits remain, etc. would be appreciated [14:04] * MacSlow steps at the front of the queue [14:04] pitti: partition-management [14:04] fsck usplash integration is beta available, rest not started [14:04] (I may have lied about alphabetical order, I've clicked something on LP and it's gone random on me) [14:05] I might get to it a bit later, so that it'll either land in hardy+1, hardy.1, or hardy if I get a FF exception [14:05] ok, we talked about this on the phone yesterday - the other bits are a "nice to have" but we won't mind if we don't get them [14:05] but it's low prio [14:05] right [14:05] so it's a good side project while you fix bugs, but don't spend much time on it [14:05] it can go in a PPA, or it might make the release [14:05] I definitively need to sort out root partition fsck, though [14:05] yes, that would be very good [14:06] what's the timescale on that? [14:06] it works with ext3, but immediately kills your reiserfs root partition :) [14:06] Keybuk: today is crazy (merging Arne's langpack stuff, MIRs, NEW, etc.) [14:06] is 'by next meeting' acceptable? [14:06] (note that I didn't modify checkroot.sh for that reason, it won't kill kittens until then) [14:07] reiserfs killing things, like father like son? [14:07] kwwii, that was nasty [14:07] I'll shut up now [14:07] pitti: the langpack changes are in? [14:07] mvo_: I spent an hour reviewing and fixing the branch, not yet [14:07] I'll continue after meeting [14:07] but I shuold be able to get it in today [14:07] kwwii: Oh, I was thinking that too -- couldn't figure out phrasing :) [14:07] pitti: ok, language-selector need to be updated then as well [14:08] mvo_: why? [14:08] mvo_: we still have language-support-XX meta-meta-packages [14:08] pitti: aha, good. then its not a must-have [14:08] or do you actually want to add knobs for part installations? [14:08] like, 'only input support and translation aids'? [14:08] pitti: by next meeting would be great [14:08] it was planed to add the knobs, but I'm not sure how far arne went down this path [14:09] Keybuk: ack [14:09] pitti: I personally think that its not that important, the common case is well covered, I will still double check that the transition does not break assumptions in it [14:09] * pitti hugs mvo_ [14:09] ok [14:10] pitti: hardy-reducing-duplication [14:10] that has come quite far [14:10] I hope that we can kill gcc-4.1 when the kernel folks manage to build with 4.2 on ppc and hppa [14:11] the rest is "utterly hard and requires lots of upstream work" and thus unrealistic [14:11] I assume that there's no major pieces of work there, other than killing more deps? [14:11] right; as I wrote in the status window yesterday, it's just gcc-4.1 left for hardy [14:11] ok [14:11] perhaps db4.2 if a miracle happens with openldap [14:11] but that's a target of opportunity [14:12] ok, cool [14:12] Riddell: gold star ;) [14:12] yay [14:12] mvo_: likewise [14:13] * mvo_ beams [14:13] kwwii: your specs should probably not have been specs [14:13] Keybuk: yeah, I am glad that we agree on that :-) [14:13] MacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-shortcuts [14:14] Keybuk, are exposed in pager, show-desktop-applet and window-action-menu [14:14] what's missing on the spec? [14:14] most of the stuff needed to patch libwnck [14:14] that gives us which bits? [14:15] Keybuk, nothing I guess [14:15] are the keyboard shortcuts showing up in the general preferences dialog? [14:15] I get kb shortcuts help in the pager and in the window menu now [14:16] there's a small tweak I still like to do for the pager-tooltip... have the stuff for expo, scale and zoom only show up if these plugins are actually active [14:16] Keybuk, that's what mvo did [14:16] they don't show up here :-/ [14:16] Keybuk, and that's... urps [14:16] Keybuk: oh? they should be available under compiz [14:16] mvo_: that sounds like a bug ;) [14:16] Keybuk: however there is a bug in super key [14:17] Keybuk: I mean, the super key is not displayed nor can be set [14:17] yeah, my oldest reported Ubuntu bug [14:17] mvo_: there is no compiz in the shortcuts dialog [14:17] I think I can fix the display bit [14:17] its under desktop [14:17] MacSlow: hardy-desktop-effects-profiles [14:17] mvo_: oh, wait "initiate window picker" ? [14:18] yes [14:18] the descriptions suck [14:18] Keybuk, stuck about "half-way-through" due to packaging issues [14:18] but that can be fixed realtively easily [14:18] MacSlow: what are the packaging problems? [14:18] MacSlow: feel free to ask on #ubuntu-desktop when you have packaging issues [14:18] Yeah, same offer here; plenty of packager around to help you :) [14:18] or in query [14:18] +s [14:18] ++ [14:18] from me [14:19] GIVE US THE BLING [14:19] MacSlow: sounds like there's plenty of people to help ;) [14:19] Keybuk, profile selection and recognition in g-c-c works... simple-ccsm bits still todo... all of it not in repos yet due to me sucking at packaging (being slow) [14:20] * Keybuk has had a lunch-time conversation with mdz today about sucking less at a company at getting training for new people [14:20] Keybuk, beta for profiles is +2 days I guess [14:20] especially in packaging, but also in things like our release cycle, processes, etc. [14:20] Keybuk, lost some days last week due to packaing issues [14:20] MacSlow: ok, let us say Thursday next week for -profiles [14:20] Keybuk, that sounds doable [14:21] there weren't any remaining pieces in hardy-desktop-effects right? [14:21] Keybuk, no... was more of a "meta-spec" and umbrella for profiles, shortcuts and general integration work [14:21] (the remaining pieces on my list are covered by profiles) [14:21] ok [14:21] that's beta available then [14:21] please update the status [14:22] Keybuk, well if I get libcompizconfig and g-c-c sorted out packagin-wise part of it can already land today [14:22] hardy-shine and sparkle aren't really on the 8.04 list, and neither is gdm-face-browser (though it's targetted for May) [14:22] Keybuk, only creating a custom-profile via simple-ccsm will probably not land today [14:23] ok, thanks [14:23] tedg: about-this-computer [14:23] I need to finish the package, but that should be done today. [14:23] do you need help with the packaging? [14:23] Keybuk, I'm looking forward to continue working on those... mostly because that's a bit more focues and sounds less like packaing-work needed ehre and there :) [14:23] I got all the python build stuff done yesterday, but starting on Debian stuff today. [14:24] Keybuk: Not yet :) I probably will later today. [14:24] MacSlow: we do need to get you up to speed on packaging though [14:24] same sa MacSlow, feel free to ask on IRC or by mail since it's harder to use on IRC when on different timezones [14:24] I'll sort something out and let you know as soon as I can [14:24] tedg: how's the qt side? [14:24] Riddell: Not great, but I was told that can be a bugfix and wasn't required for FF. [14:24] kwwii: I might rope you into that too, since it'd help you unblock artwork issues if you know the basics [14:24] Keybuk, seb128: yes... some intense "become a real MOTU/deb-dev" is something I seriously need [14:24] Keybuk: okidoki [14:25] Riddell: I also need to figure out which KDE package to adjust to put it somewhere. [14:25] tedg: right [14:25] Riddell: I figure I'll ask when I have the QT one working better. [14:25] I do also have a gnome-panel patch that puts it in the panel. [14:25] tedg: that's not hard, although it does need doing twice for KDEs 3 and 4 === mvo_ is now known as mvo [14:26] cleanup-audio-jumble I think colin was going to track that with Luke and ask you for help as needed? or are there remaining bits on your plate? [14:26] seb128, isn't there also some deb-dev related talk at FOSDEM next week? [14:26] There are a couple of remaining bits on my plate. Not a lot though, Luke already had a lot done. [14:27] could you send me a mail cataloguing the remaining bits there? [14:27] MacSlow: I'm doing that [14:27] Riddell, ok... then I'll be in the audience! [14:28] Keybuk: Sounds good. [14:28] seb128: you have a pppoeconf-gui assigned to you? [14:29] didn't that one get a "go straight to implemented, thanks upstream!" pass? [14:29] Keybuk: yes it did [14:29] ah, it's beta available [14:29] sorry [14:29] I'm blind [14:30] So that's provided by NM now? === mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch [14:31] lool: gnome-system-tools iirc [14:31] Aha [14:31] lool: yes, network-admin does that [14:31] ok, I'd like to run back through you all again to confirm what you'll be working on for the next couple of months [14:31] Indeed, 2.21.3, pretty cool [14:32] (not just for yours and my sake, but for the rest of the team as well :p) [14:32] * lool will try the UMTS support then [14:32] lool: you are welcome to test if you use pppoe ;-) [14:32] that too [14:32] mpt is on leave, but he'll be working on some early sketches and mockups for the 8.10 UI Refresh [14:32] (I don't have pppoe that I know of) [14:32] he's also available for UI critique/help, but as we get closer to Beta, UI shouldn't be changing much :-) [14:32] kwwii: what will you be working on? [14:33] Keybuk: finishing up the UI mockups, finalizing panel icons, getting the wallpaper for 8.04 ready, looking in to making that look good with gdm [14:34] UI mockups for the 8.10 theme? [14:34] oh, and the clear looks stuff [14:34] when's the clearlooks change likely to happen? [14:34] Keybuk: yes [14:34] and when will we see the first 8.04 wallpaper idea? [14:34] Keybuk: when will mpt be back? [14:34] Keybuk: I would like to test it out in the next day or two [14:34] seb128: monday [14:34] ok [14:34] Keybuk: the first one should be in already (if pitti or seb included it yesterday) [14:35] doh, didn't [14:35] I put the source package online for them to check [14:35] pitti: did you? ;-) [14:35] o_O? no, I'm not aware of it [14:35] I don't have a mail about it [14:35] I've been busy debugging g-p-m and forget [14:35] pitti: he asked on #ubuntu-desktop [14:35] * pitti looks in his spam folder [14:35] oh, then I probably missed that, sorry; I get too much IRC stuff ATM (FF crazyness) [14:35] pitti: yesterday afternoon [14:36] no problem [14:36] ok, which of you will do that for Ken? :) [14:36] I said I would look at it if you didn't and I've been busy with other things [14:36] kwwii: what is the URL again? [14:36] seb128, pitti: I'll send an email with the urls [14:36] so for 8.04, we're using clearlooks and having new wallpaper [14:37] so, no ubuntu theme any more? [14:37] right [14:37] kwwii: don't bother I'll look at it now [14:37] and perhaps a gdm update [14:37] 8.10 you're preparing some mock-ups I can hand around when I'm in the office next week (so, err, soon please :p) [14:37] Keybuk: that is good news ;-) [14:37] clearlooks with orange colors, right? [14:37] Keybuk: right, I'll get that done by tomorrow [14:37] ok [14:37] heh, and I was about to report a bug report against compiz which always has blue window decorations at startup until I start gnome-appearance-properties :) [14:37] tedg: what will you be working on? [14:37] pitti: metacity does that too sometimes, apparentlyt [14:38] pitti: meh, a race condition [14:38] pitti: that's a known bug, I've been pinged mvo every now and then about it :-) [14:38] seb128: you have fix, no? [14:38] its just not applied yet because I'm not 100% confident in it [14:38] Keybuk: that would be weird, never noticed that, but compiz does it almost every time [14:38] mvo: well, using dbus again for the decorator [14:38] never saw it with metacity either [14:38] seb128: desrt thought it was pretty, and made a real theme that does it on purpose [14:38] Keybuk: Audio jumble bits probably first, as to get that out of the way. Then I need to really start on GPM bugs, I've let it linger and they've collected. [14:39] tedg: *nods* :-) [14:39] Keybuk: ;-) [14:39] tedg: and gnome-screensaver needs some harsh love too [14:39] tedg: agree, I started looking at those yesterday, they is 300 bugs, 200 of them are NEW which means ignored [14:39] s/they/there [14:40] seb128, aren't these bugs mostly compiz/DRI issues? [14:40] maybe we can convince pedro_ to organise a bug day to clean some of those ;-) [14:40] Yeah, the crux of the problem is trying to figure out where in the system things broke down. Half the time GPM is just the messenger. [14:40] Keybuk: btw, I sent you a tar.bz2 with the raw pics for the 8.10 mockups a few days ago [14:40] seb128: only if we have some debugging instructions ;-) [14:40] tedg: if you need a hand understanding HAL, pitti can help [14:40] tedg: right, I guess many hw specific issues are hal or pm-utils bugs [14:40] MacSlow: the theme one? it's a race between the gnome-settings-daemon and the decorator [14:40] if you need a hand with packaging, anyone can help [14:41] kwwii: you did indeed :-) [14:41] seb128, no the 200 new screensaver-bugs [14:41] MacSlow: I was speaking about gnome-power-manager [14:41] ok [14:41] Riddell: what will you be doing? [14:41] MacSlow: there shouldn't be many, we run fullscreen windows unredirected [14:41] seb128, mixed up the context then [14:41] tedg: ^ what pedro said, if you could write a wiki page on how to triage g-p-m bugs that would be useful [14:41] Keybuk: KDE 4 CDs (just stuck on a bug, I think cjwatson_ needs to look), KDE 3.5.9 packaging, KDE 4.0.2 packaging, getting out all the bugs in the hardy features [14:41] so games are (most of the time) fine too [14:41] mvo, that's what got me wondering [14:41] Riddell: did you get unblocked on the seeds? have you spoken to colin about the bug? [14:42] Keybuk: yes, spent most of yesterday working on it with his help [14:42] pedro_ is a wizard, he did wonders on the update-manager bug count (similar problem, most of the time its just the messanger) [14:42] mvo, all of these issues never happened to me after gutsy was released... maybe a bit earlier [14:42] seb128, pedro_: My goal was to go through and start triaging to write the instructions. [14:42] i was about to organize one based on pidgin next week but we can delay that and organize a gpm one [14:42] Keybuk: it's all there but breaks somewhere that I can't work out === cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson [14:42] cjwatson: ^ :-) [14:43] yeah, I saw, it's something to do with the universe mirroring process [14:43] * pedro_ hugs mvo [14:43] tedg: good [14:43] pedro_: No, I think two would be better, give me a chance to get some good instructions together. [14:43] I've seen it before in other flavours that build from universe [14:43] I'm happy that the bulk of the work is in place though [14:43] * seb128 hugs pedro_ [14:43] tedg: ok cool! [14:43] * pedro_ hugs seb128 back [14:44] Riddell: I actually suspect that it would work eventually if you kept retrying - it's a race between the main and universe mirroring processes AFAICS [14:44] ok [14:44] pitti: what will you be working on? [14:44] my next tasks, in decreasing priority: discuss some language-support-* reorganization problems with Arne (will slip FF then, as he is already asleep), debug and fix the fsck+usplash+rootfs issue, start working on general bug fixing and catc [14:44] hing up on my bugs folder [14:45] so I already need a FF exception for the language-support-* split [14:45] (which is relatively unintrusive, but arne put in loads of new packages which need review and discussion) [14:47] for the record, we are currently on top of the MIR queue \o/ [14:47] *nods* [14:47] lots and lots of general bug fixing? :) [14:47] (almost all bugs are incomplete or done) [14:47] pitti: Cool, thanks for the UME stuff, that was probably lots of work! [14:47] Keybuk: my "in progress" list needs urgent attention :) [14:47] :-) [14:48] mvo: and how about you? [14:48] next tasks: [14:48] • update-manager bugfixing, more robustness [14:48] • compiz updates for the upcomming fusion 0.7 release [14:48] • trying to catchup on my bug mail [14:48] upgrade testing [14:48] general maintainance (desktop database update, command-not-found data update, ddtp update) [14:48] mvo: if you could take first-pass over compiz bugs (Mirco has some 8.10 things to deliver early) that would be much appreciated [14:48] * mvo nods [14:48] sure, I will do that [14:49] thanks [14:49] MacSlow: ? [14:49] * MacSlow thanks mvo too [14:49] * finish desktop-effect-profiles [14:49] * sparkle [14:49] * shine [14:49] * gdm-face-browser [14:50] so to expand on that for the others [14:50] Mark is very keen for us to demonstrate some of the 8.10 pieces early [14:50] (in between getting up to speed with Xorg/DRI, clutter and some newer OpenGL-stuff) [14:50] (ie. at UDS) [14:50] the chosen piece is face browser [14:50] so Mirco will be implementing that before UDS, so we can show it off there [14:51] and will therefore beat everyone at getting the first Implemented hardy+1 spec :-) [14:51] (those who've been at this company for a while will recognise that "very keen" is an understatement :p) [14:53] and last, but no means least [14:53] Loic and Seb [14:53] Keybuk, I guess it means it the highest prio it can ever have, right?! :) [14:53] GNOME updates and desktop bugs fixing [14:54] For the desktop half of things: [14:54] • Continue misc stuff; usually GNOME updates and bug chasing [14:54] • If time permits, resume work on the "memory requirements" topic [14:55] ok [14:55] and pedro_ will be helping us with QA wherever it's needed [14:55] lot of testing, making sure all strings are translatable, etc too [14:56] except those " " ones that preferences dialogs seem to like? :) [14:56] pedro_ rocks on desktop bug triage ;-) [14:56] has there been any outcome on login speed testing? [14:56] pitti: not really, we could win a bit without deskbar-applet [14:56] otherwise to obvious target [14:56] gconf and disk fragmentation don't help [14:57] there is some user comments about readahead on the launchpad bug saying that makes quite a difference but nobody really worked on a clean solution to do that yet [14:57] If gconf's disk fragmentation is an issue, we could schedule a periodical check like fsck to rebuild the gconf tree on login [14:57] ok, I've got to run to the team leads meeting now, so I'll have to adjourn the meeting :) [14:57] we've hit an hour anyway [14:58] if there are other agenda items, please carry on and discuss, and I'll keep an eye on the log [14:58] thanks everyone [14:58] I would like to ask about the feeling of samba-share vs. shares-admin (from gnome-system-tools) [14:59] ok... I'll get back to my packaing-battle... and come crying in #ubuntu-devel if I'm totally lost [14:59] IMHO the samba-shares has the nicer gui and seems to be generally easier now that we have the samba usershares enabled by default [15:10] Riddell, ehm... when is you talk at fosdem? [15:10] Riddell, I just skimmed the pages on the fosdem'08 site and did not find it [15:11] mvo: where does samba-share come from? not g-s-t apparently? [15:13] MacSlow: http://www.fosdem.org/2008/schedule/devroom/crossdesktop [15:13] pitti: nautilus-share is a seperate package (sorry for the confusion with the packagename) [15:13] its in the archive already [15:14] not enough sleep :/ [15:14] Riddell, ah thanks! === ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Feb 04:00 UTC: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00 UTC: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team [16:37] @schedule montreal [16:37] Schedule for America/Montreal: 14 Feb 23:00: MOTU | 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 14:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team === thekorn_ is now known as thekorn === mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell === cropalat__ is now known as cropalat === Toadstoo1 is now known as Toadstool [21:42] bsoir [21:44] heu hello === Martinp24 is now known as Martinp23 === czessi_ is now known as Czessi