[03:51] <nxvl> @date
[03:51] <emgent> @schedule rome
[03:51] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: MOTU 20 Feb 02:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 20:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 21:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 22:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 15:00: Desktop Team
[03:51] <nxvl> @schedule lima
[03:51] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Lima: Current meeting: MOTU 19 Feb 20:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 14:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 16:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 09:00: Desktop Team
[03:52] <nxvl> emgent: isn't the MOTU meeting in 10 minutes ?
[03:53] <emgent> today is 15 Feb
[03:53] <emgent> motu meeting is in 20 Feb
[03:53] <nxvl> as in schedule
[03:53] <nxvl> but i think i read a mail saying it's tpoday
[03:53] <nxvl> today*
[03:53] <emgent> false
[03:54] <emgent> i think
[03:54] <emgent> but general meeting ?
[03:54] <emgent> or motu Loco meeting ?
[03:55] <nxvl> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-February/003280.html
[03:55] <nxvl> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-February/003330.html
[03:57] <pochu> nxvl: that's in one hour, isn't it?
[03:57] <pochu> @now
[03:57] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: February 15 2008, 03:57:45 - Current meeting: MOTU
[03:57] <pochu> No, it's right now
[03:57] <emgent> some minutes ago should start
[03:58] <emgent> @now rome
[03:58] <ubotu> Current time in Europe/Rome: February 15 2008, 04:58:30 - Current meeting: MOTU
[03:58] <nxvl> @now lima
[03:58] <ubotu> Current time in America/Lima: February 14 2008, 22:58:42 - Current meeting: MOTU
[03:58] <TheMuso> @now Sydney
[03:58] <ubotu> Current time in Australia/Sydney: February 15 2008, 14:58:46 - Current meeting: MOTU
[04:01] <TheMuso> Ok, who do we have here?
[04:01] <nxvl> o/
[04:02] <emgent> nxvl, you are not motu :P
[04:02] <nxvl> not yet
[04:02] <TheMuso> emgent: The meetings are open.
[04:02]  * pochu is half asleep, but here
[04:02]  * nxvl es like pochu 
[04:02] <nxvl> i need to sleep in while
[04:02] <TheMuso> Hey LaserJock.
[04:02] <pochu> hey nxvl :)
[04:02] <LaserJock> wahoo, made it
[04:03] <TheMuso> Are people here who posted agenda items?
[04:03] <LaserJock> well, I added the last 2
[04:03] <TheMuso> Ok, what aobut the first? Well I guess the first doesn't matter so much.
[04:03] <TheMuso> about
[04:03] <TheMuso> As it is, unless someone else wants to chair, I don't mind doing it.
[04:04] <TheMuso> Volunteer for minutes?
[04:04] <pochu> I think that was ScottK or \sh (the first one)
[04:04] <TheMuso> Right.
[04:04] <pochu> I can do them... tomorrow ;)
[04:04] <TheMuso> pochu: Thanks.
[04:05] <LaserJock> did we do a roll call already?
[04:05] <TheMuso> #startmeeting
[04:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 04:05. The chair is TheMuso.
[04:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[04:05] <TheMuso> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[04:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
[04:05] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I just asked who is here.
[04:06] <TheMuso> Does anybody have anything to say about he first agenda item, or should be postpone it for the next meeting?
[04:07] <TheMuso> Hrm, and since there are only a few of us, I'm wondering whether we should leave them for the list/the next meeting/
[04:07] <pochu> It sounds good to me, although it says "e.g." so it sounds as it should be discussed (or postponed)
[04:08] <pochu> TheMuso: we can wait a little to see if there is someone late
[04:08] <TheMuso> pochu: Yeah, perhaps I was a little hasty in starting things. :p
[04:09] <LaserJock> heh, we could at least have a quick discussion I suppose
[04:09] <TheMuso> LaserJock: About which one(s)?
[04:10] <LaserJock> all of them
[04:10] <LaserJock> if not a lot of people show up
[04:10] <TheMuso> Yeah, and its looking increasinly like they won't, but we can wait a bit.
[04:13] <TheMuso> Yay, another MOTU.
[04:14] <TheMuso> RAOF: You are here for the meeting, aren't you?
[04:14] <pochu> motus += 1
[04:14] <RAOF> TheMuso: Yes, I am.  Just a little late :)
[04:14] <TheMuso> Tis alright, we haven't started in urnist yet.
[04:14] <RAOF> Unless my UTC-foo is particularly bad.
[04:14] <TheMuso> RAOF: NO it isn't.
[04:15] <TheMuso> Well, what say we get started?
[04:15]  * ajmitch isn't exactly here for the meeting, is almost beer o'clock :)
[04:17] <TheMuso> Or do you all think we should postponee?
[04:18] <RAOF> How many do we have?
[04:18] <TheMuso> nxvl, pochu, LaserJock, yourself, and myself.
[04:19] <RAOF> Hm.  Doesn't seem a particularly good turnout, but will postponing get a better turnout?
[04:19] <pochu> and half of ajmitch!
[04:19] <RAOF> The soper half :)
[04:20] <RAOF> s/p/b/
[04:20] <TheMuso> RAOF: Well I think the times rotate now, so the next one is more likely to land in a more suitable timezone.
[04:20]  * LaserJock likes this time :-)
[04:20] <RAOF> TheMuso: So that means we should go ahead, surely.  The idea of rotating timezones would be so that everyone can participate.
[04:21] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yes I know.
[04:21] <TheMuso> Alright, lets go.
[04:21] <TheMuso> [topic] mailing list policy (e.g. all MOTUs must be subscribed to devel-announce, should be subscribed -motu and -devel, where to post announcements etc.)
[04:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  mailing list policy (e.g. all MOTUs must be subscribed to devel-announce, should be subscribed -motu and -devel, where to post announcements etc.)
[04:21] <TheMuso> Since whoever added that doesn't seem to be here, what does everybody think? It sounds rather self-explanetory.
[04:22] <LaserJock> are we wanting a wiki page that has the "You need to be sub'd to ubuntu-motu, ubuntu-devel, and ubuntu-devel-announce"
[04:22] <LaserJock> ?
[04:22] <RAOF> It does, yes.  I think it's obvious that MOTUs should be expected to be subscribed to at least -motu & -devel-announce, and almost certainly -devel.
[04:22] <pochu> I think the "must be subscribed to -devel-announce" is sensible.
[04:23] <TheMuso> I think devel-announce, and -motu certainly.
[04:23] <pochu> The others shouldn't be enforced IMHO
[04:23] <pochu> hmm, -motu maybe...
[04:23] <LaserJock> really?
[04:23] <LaserJock> I feel like both -motu and -devel should be required
[04:24] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Certainly -devel if you are about to/are a MOTU.
[04:24] <TheMuso> As you are more active in the development community.
[04:24] <pochu> well important things go to -devel-announce. The rest is discussion so I don't think we should enforce it.
[04:25] <pochu> Although we should encourage it, of course.
[04:25] <LaserJock> mdz and others have said that the design of -devel should be for *all* developers and -motu should be just motu specific stuff
[04:25] <LaserJock> so I think people are really missing out on important stuff if they aren't sub'd
[04:25] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Now that you put it that way, -devel is important enough, as some important discussions do come up from time to time, or someone wants something tested.
[04:26] <LaserJock> it's not like they are high traffic
[04:26] <pochu> I still don't think we should force people to subscribe to a list because they might be interested in a few mails
[04:26] <pochu> LaserJock: true that, due to the split in -devel-discuss for devel and -mentors for motu
[04:27] <TheMuso> nxvl: You still with us? Do you have any thoughts?
[04:27] <RAOF> pochu: Surely it's not *that* much of a burden?  I get ~40 Ubuntu mails/day on busy days, and I'm subscribed to all sorts of lists.
[04:27] <pochu> Messages: 205 <--- ubuntu-motu in January
[04:27] <TheMuso> Yeah the traffic is not high at all.
[04:27] <pochu> Messages: 105 <--- ubuntu-devel in January
[04:27] <TheMuso> on -devel
[04:28] <LaserJock> I just feel like if -motu and -devel are really burdens then I have some other questions
[04:28] <LaserJock> if you know what I mean
[04:28] <pochu> RAOF: lucky you ;) I get hundreds every day, but I'm subscribed to too many I'm afraid...
[04:28] <RAOF> So that'd be ~10 mails/day for -motu & -devel being mandatory.  That doesn't seem onerous at all.
[04:28] <LaserJock> I don't think we need to have some sort of penalty or ML cops or anything
[04:29] <TheMuso> No, I see it more as an encouragement.
[04:29] <TheMuso> As they'd get more out of the development community at least reading those lists.
[04:29] <RAOF> It would just be listed somewhere as expected behaviour.
[04:29] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah.
[04:29] <pochu> Well I'm saying all the time that we should encourage it, but not force it
[04:29] <LaserJock> but a wiki page that says that you *should* be sub'd is good, and generally saying it's assumed
[04:29] <pochu> Although -devel-discuss should be enforced.
[04:30] <TheMuso> devel-discuss?
[04:30] <TheMuso> You sure?
[04:30] <pochu> Err, -devel-announce
[04:30] <LaserJock> -devel-announce yes
[04:30] <RAOF> pochu: I thought d-discus was at least partially a honeypot :)
[04:30] <pochu> TheMuso: I'm considering unsubscribing from -discuss ;)
[04:30] <TheMuso> Right, I thought so.
[04:30] <pochu> RAOF: yeah sadly it is
[04:31] <TheMuso> So does anybody wan to volunteer to update the wiki?
[04:32] <LaserJock> do we have a good wiki page for that?
[04:32] <RAOF> LaserJock: That's what I was thinking.  I can't think of one, offhand.
[04:32]  * TheMuso doesn't know, as he rarely looks at the MOTU part of the wiki these days.
[04:33] <TheMuso> Well perhaps its someting we tell new contributors who are regularly involved.
[04:33] <TheMuso> something
[04:33] <TheMuso> And, how do we enforce devel-announce?
[04:33] <TheMuso> We can't really enforce any of it really.
[04:33] <RAOF> Sign up ~ubuntu-dev to devel-announce? :)
[04:33] <LaserJock> sure we can
[04:34] <LaserJock> have a devel-announce admin sign up everybody in ~motu
[04:34] <LaserJock> :-)
[04:35] <TheMuso> Yeah, but I don't think its something we can force contributors to do.
[04:36] <RAOF> Why would we need to force contributors to do that?
[04:36] <RAOF> We can suggest it to them, and if they don't then, well, that's one of the reasons their work is filtered through MOTUs.
[04:36] <LaserJock> no, this should be a MOTU thing
[04:37] <pochu> LaserJock: then motus could just filter mails from whateverlist to /dev/null :P
[04:38] <LaserJock> well, that would be very  unfortunate
[04:39] <LaserJock> hmm, we need a "MOTU Reference" wiki page
[04:39] <LaserJock> I just get so lost
[04:40] <RAOF> Hey, maybe https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers is a good page?
[04:40] <LaserJock> well
[04:40] <LaserJock> that one is just so big
[04:40] <LaserJock> I need like the reference version
[04:41] <RAOF> "MOTUhood for dummies"
[04:41] <LaserJock> that links to all the stuff and has nice checklists so we don't forget
[04:41] <RAOF> That'd actually be a useful page, yeah.
[04:41] <LaserJock> so it's not "I need to learn how to ..." but "I need to remember how to ..." ;-)
[04:41] <RAOF> Updated with "current/impending freeze: <url> (exception process <url>)", etc.
[04:42] <LaserJock> yep
[04:42] <RAOF> "Where's that useful page about reviewing new library packages again?"
[04:42] <RAOF> Etc.
[04:42] <TheMuso_> Sorry, just got booted and reconnected.
[04:42] <TheMuso_> What did I miss?
[04:43] <RAOF> I didn't see you get booted, so I don't know.
[04:43] <LaserJock> TheMuso_: what was the last you saw?
[04:43] <RAOF> Last thing you saw?
[04:44] <RAOF> LaserJock & I have been musing that a "Daily MOTU tasks quick reference guide" wiki page would be nice.
[04:44] <TheMuso> < RAOF> Why would we need to force contributors to do that?
[04:44] <RAOF> TheMuso: http://pastebin.com/mcce1ddb
[04:45] <TheMuso> RAOF: thanks.
[04:46] <TheMuso> So... What should we do? Perhaps raise it on the list?
[04:47] <RAOF> Unless someone here wants to volunteer to write such a page, yes.
[04:48] <RAOF> The result of this discussion is "MOTUs are expected be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss.  Also, a MOTU Reference wiki page wourld be good", yes?
[04:49] <TheMuso> Does everybody agree with RAOF assessment of the discussion?
[04:49] <LucidFox> I agree.
[04:51] <TheMuso> Ok, I'll take that as a yes, as we are almost out of time.
[04:52] <TheMuso> [agreed] MOTUs are expected to be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. A MOTU wiki reference page would also be useful.
[04:52] <MootBot> AGREED received:  MOTUs are expected to be subscribed to at least -motu, -devel, and -devel-discuss. A MOTU wiki reference page would also be useful.
[04:52] <TheMuso> Moving along...
[04:53] <TheMuso> should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details)
[04:53] <TheMuso> [topic] should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details)
[04:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  should Ubuntu Membership be a general requirement for MOTUship? (see the [WWW] MOTU Council thread for more details)
[04:55] <TheMuso> So, shoudl this also be something that gets put to the list?
[04:56]  * TheMuso thinks again that we postpone to either the next meeting, or to the list.
[04:56] <RAOF> As I see it, the only reason why Ubuntu Membership should not be a requirement for MOTU would be if the process for aquiring UM is swamped by applicants.
[04:56] <RAOF> TheMuso: That seems reasonable.  Send to list.
[04:58] <TheMuso> Anybody got anythign else to say? Otherwise I say we leave this and the other items either for the list, or the next meeting.
[04:58] <superm1> are some folks from motu-release present right now?
[04:58] <superm1> i've got some things to mention at least to them
[04:58] <TheMuso> Yes, I am, but we as a group haven't had a chance to talk about anything yet.
[04:58] <superm1> I'll hold off then until everyone on the team talks then
[04:59] <superm1> carry on :)
[04:59] <TheMuso> Anybody?
[04:59] <TheMuso> going....
[04:59] <TheMuso> going..
[04:59] <TheMuso> going.
[05:00] <TheMuso> gone.
[05:00] <pochu> Adjourned!
[05:01] <TheMuso> [agreed] Discussion of whether Ubuntu membership should be a general requirement of MOTUship, as well as feature freeze policy, should be discussed either on the MOTU mailing list, or at the next meeting.
[05:01] <MootBot> AGREED received:  Discussion of whether Ubuntu membership should be a general requirement of MOTUship, as well as feature freeze policy, should be discussed either on the MOTU mailing list, or at the next meeting.
[05:01] <TheMuso> #endmeeting
[05:01] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 05:01.
[05:01] <TheMuso> Thanks everybody.
[07:09] <dholbach> good morning
[07:13] <coolbhavi> hi dholbach
[07:23] <emgent> heya dholbach :)
[16:12] <nxvl_work> @schedule
[16:12] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest | 20 Feb 19:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00: Desktop Team | 27 Feb 12:00: Education Team