[18:21] <troy_s> thorwil: How are things?
[18:22] <thorwil> troy_s: fine. my rocket landed on the submissions page. and you?
[18:22] <troy_s> thorwil: Not too bad.  Trying to tie up some web design crapps.
[18:23] <thorwil> troy_s: crapps?
[18:24] <troy_s> thorwil: Just some odds and ends.  A little bit of sorting through some of the more 'semantic' rubbish to make things tidier.
[18:25] <troy_s> thorwil: How goes the idea site thing?
[18:26] <thorwil> troy_s: waiting for the results of ken's intervention
[18:28] <troy_s> thorwil: Ugh.
[18:28] <troy_s> thorwil: I would avoid interventions... they are for naught in the grand scheme of things.
[18:28] <troy_s> thorwil: In the end, it comes down to the fundamental issue that the people who are calling and steering 1) have no clue and 2) have no clue.
[18:29] <troy_s> thorwil: And the steering, in the end, is atrocious anyways.  What our lovely little bunker of FOSS love culture fails to realize is that to have any impact in mainstream land of the type say, the Lutz campaign, takes an actual art director with bleeding edge vision.
[18:30] <troy_s> thorwil: Hell -- _any_ degree of art awareness outside of this myopic field would help.
[18:30] <thorwil> troy_s: i have nothing to lose. it's either logos as they are or nothing of my work at all (if they respect my wish)
[18:32] <troy_s> thorwil: Good stance.
[18:33] <thorwil> troy_s: people at the top might tell you that the project is successful the way it's run, so why change? ...
[18:33] <troy_s> thorwil: The hyper-insecure branding is ridiculous anyways.  I have no clue why we insist on putting the bloody Ubuntu logo on everything.  It is damn mooky.
[18:33] <troy_s> thorwil: I believe I have said that on a number of occasions.
[18:33] <troy_s> thorwil: And on that count, one's definition of successful might change.
[18:34] <troy_s> thorwil: One could argue that MS is successful, but their artistry and design leaves a little to be desired.
[18:34] <troy_s> thorwil: And perhaps, in some fashion, all of that is compounding against them at this moment.
[18:34] <thorwil> a little? but see, there are mayn people on the streets who don't see it. or don't care, at least
[18:34] <troy_s> thorwil: Or vice versa, Apple's insistence on a clear vision perhaps has aided them when mainstream users choose a system based on words such as 'simplicity, elegance, etc.'
[18:35] <troy_s> thorwil: Everyone sees it and everyone cares.
[18:35] <troy_s> thorwil: Make no mistake, the average viewer is amazingly astute, even if they cannot vocalize it as such.
[18:35] <troy_s> thorwil: Visual literacy is nothing more than another breed of literacy.  Many people cannot read or write, but they understand people speaking to them.
[18:36] <troy_s> thorwil: Off to launch rockets with my daughter... chat soon.
[18:36] <thorwil> ok
[20:20] <thorwil> andreasn: thanks :)