=== tiborio_ is now known as tiborio === lamalex_2 is now known as lamaex === lamaex is now known as lamalex_2 === lamalex_2 is now known as lamalex [04:32] Vorian: suppie [08:35] hallo, schon jemand da? [08:35] bb74_: most people speak english in here :) [08:35] bb74_: and yes, there are 119 people around :) [08:37] ok, now i've take a look at the time-table and will be back at 16h00 [08:38] 16:00 UTC :) [08:38] dholbach, what time is UTC right now? [08:38] daniel@lovegood:~$ date; date -u [08:38] Di 19. Feb 09:38:37 CET 2008 [08:38] Di 19. Feb 08:38:37 UTC 2008 [08:38] daniel@lovegood:~$ [08:38] "date -u" is your friend :-) [08:39] ok, 17h00 cet [08:39] * luisbg_ has just learned a new terminal trick [08:39] yeah, thanks [08:39] :-) [08:39] ROCK ON! :-) [08:39] derivative session at 19h00 utc, 20h00 my local time [08:39] I look forward to it [08:40] just an idea: wouldn't it be good to prepare a question section in the wiki where people can already put their questions for each session, just in case they are not able to come - and might be good for the "speakers" to prepare their thing [08:42] tamrat: if you figure out a good place to put them that should be fine - the thing is: it'd take some time to announce that change also I had so many questions in the sessions that I could barely answer them all [08:51] tamrat, if wiki questions had more priority or viceversa... it would be unfair [08:52] dholbach, in the sessions... how are the questions handled? who selects which one is replied and who has to answer it? [08:54] luisbg_: carry them over from #-chat and reply to them one by one [08:55] ok [09:03] luisbg_: the practises used are explained well here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek [09:03] be sure to have a look at there, you will also find the programme from there :) [09:04] Unksi, thanks [09:05] Unksi, need to know that for this evening [09:05] youre welcome [09:51] Hi folks! [13:11] hey, i missed this romm yesterfday :(, are the channels logged anywhere? [13:11] yes, see the UDW wiki page [13:13] kay [13:15] im too silly, i cannot find, do u mean thsi page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/JoiningIn [13:17] go to the root of that page [13:18] each of the talks which has been presented have a link which you can click, iirc [13:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/ [13:18] click on any of the links for the 18th [13:21] thx [13:21] some things are to easy for me [13:46] schedule @London [13:46] !schedule @London [13:47] !schedule [13:47] Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases [14:08] !now [14:08] Sorry, I don't know anything about now - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [14:09] @now [14:09] Current time in Etc/UTC: February 19 2008, 14:09:18 - Next meeting: TriLoCo-Midwest in 10 hours 50 minutes === barcc_ is now known as barcc === dholbach_ is now known as dholbach [15:05] morning dholbach [15:07] g'day kids [15:07] hey guys :) [15:07] hi [15:07] hey [15:08] Heya [15:09] only 51 minutes left :D [15:09] time, I think, for more coffee. [15:09] there's always time for more coffee [15:10] no, I can think of cases where the time is insufficient for more coffee. [15:10] for instance, if you're on a medevac team.... === juliank0 is now known as juliank [15:10] "Can't intubate the guy now; need more coffee!" [15:12] Solarion: [15:12] lol [15:12] ping dholbach [15:12] hi mruiz [15:14] I could use some more coffee [15:15] dholbach: moi [15:15] *slurp* aah [15:19] looks like someone got there coffee [15:23] jjesse: cup's empty already, refill NOW! [15:23] jjesse: ;) [15:25] * jjesse pours coffee for sergevn [15:25] * jjesse pours coffee for sergevn [15:25] there two cups should keep you busy [15:26] we have some REALLY excited people here :) [15:26] *sergevn's eyes popping out [15:40] hi [15:56] WELCOME EVERYBODY TO DAY 2 OF THE UBUNTU DEVELOPER WEEK! [15:56] \o/ [15:56] I hope you all managed to grab a comfy seat and have your favourite drink ready [15:56] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek has the schedule for today [15:56] dholbach: no and no but better go ahead anyway ;) [15:56] and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek/Rules explains how we deal with everything in this channel [15:57] please keep all the chatter out of this channel, and talk in #ubuntu-classroom-chat [15:57] if you have questions, ask them in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prefix them with QUESTION: so they're easier to spot [15:58] in our first session today, we have Søren Hansen, our Virtualisation king, long-time MOTU and a good friend of mine [15:58] * soren hugs dholbach [15:58] please treat him gently, we still need him :) [15:58] * dholbach hugs soren [15:58] we still have two minutes, so lean back and enjoy the show [15:59] Please keep the questions rolling in. I haven't prepared much, so any questions are appreciated. [16:00] Here goes.. [16:00] Hi, and welcome to the first UDW talk for the day. My name is Soren Hansen, and I'll be your host for this session whose topic is virtualisation. [16:00] Ok, first bit of generalitites about virtualisation.. [16:01] Virtualisation is a bit of a broad topic. [16:01] There are various types of virtualisation techniques, each with the own pros and cons. [16:01] Common for them all is that they enable you to split up one physical machine into what seems like many machines. [16:02] KVM, which we have chosen as our preferred free virtualisation technology, does this by providing a complete virtualised machine to a socalled guest operating system. [16:03] In a perfect world, the guest os (the operating system running inside the virtual machine) will not be able to (or at least need to be able to) tell that it's running inside a virtual machine. [16:03] From its perspective, it's running in a regular PC. [16:04] Other approaches are used by other virtualisation solutions.. [16:04] Xen for instance replaces the regular linux kernel with a so-called hypervisor. [16:05] On top of that you can run specialised linux kernels. [16:05] There's also so-called containers. [16:06] They usually use the same running kernel, but keeps both filesystem and process space separate from the individual "virtual machines". [16:06] There are a few others, but these are the most interesting ones. [16:06] I'm ready for questions any time. [16:07] QUESTION (for later, when it's time): can KVM handle irq generated by guests on may cores (compatibility with irqbalance), or do all the irqs have to be done by the first core? [16:07] I'm not entirely sure I understand the question. [16:08] Are we talking virtual or physical cores? [16:08] can I reply here? :) [16:08] yeah, physical cores, on the host [16:08] (I BTW prefer more general, high-level questions in this session. I'd like to have a bit of time to research these very technical questions before I just blurt out an answer.) [16:09] QUESTION will KVM use my 3D graphics card? VBox and VMWare do not, yet. [16:10] yann2: I'd really like to get back to you on that. Can we talk afterwards? [16:10] newlands_: No, I'm afraid not. [16:10] soren > np :) [16:10] QUESTION (yeah, 've got a lot, for later): KVM is in the kernel, so in main, so in theory supported by canonical - is it going to be supported even on processors with no virtualisation extensions (opterons 2nd generations, for example) with KVM running in QEMU [16:10] yann2: I'm inclined to say it can handle it, but I want to check before I say for sure. [16:10] QUESTION: Which is faster? Bare_Metal -> Xen -> Guest_OS OR Bare_Metal -> Host_OS -> KVM/VirtualBox -> Guest_OS [16:11] yann2: No, we will not be supporting kvm running on CPU's that don't support it. [16:11] yann2: In fact, it will soon be completely disabled for slightly different reasons. [16:12] Shiv: I'm not sure of the most recent benchmarks, but I believe they're very close to each other for pure computational purposes. [16:12] However... [16:13] Hm... [16:13] I'm inclined to claim that network and disk i/o will perform better if you're running Ubuntu Hardy inside your vm's. [16:13] (in kvm). [16:13] Due to the availability of virtio in our kernel. [16:14] Next question, please. [16:14] QUESTION: What is the ubuntu position for VMWARE products? [16:15] Ubuntu -- which is a free software project -- has no particular relation to VMWare. [16:15] QUESTION: At this time is Canonical focusing primarily on virtualization for the enterprise? Becasue of the viable options, KVM/QEMU seems to be the most laking on user-friendly management apps for desktop. [16:15] I'm afraid to say much about the Canonical stance as I'm afraid to say something that is not entirely accurate. [16:16] BadServo: We are indeed focusing primarily on server use cases for our virtualisation efforts. [16:16] However.. [16:17] There are graphical utilities to manage virtual machines (virt-manager primarily) that should lower the barrier of entry for regular desktop users as well. [16:17] QUESTION: Is there some way to convert VMWare virtual machines to KVM? [16:17] BadServo: If virt-manager doesn't fulfill your needs, I'd love to hear about it. [16:18] shujin: Heheh... I happen to know that within the last few hours, such a thing came into existence. It's not in any ubuntu package just yet, but stay tuned :) [16:18] \o/ [16:18] QUESTION: will Ubuntu provide tools to manage virtual machines? ( a la SuSE's) [16:18] \o/ [16:19] jdstrand wrote said script :) [16:19] I'm not entirely familiar with what SuSE's providing in that arena? ANyone? [16:19] soren: I think you answered it w/ virt-manager. thanx. [16:19] QUESTION: (continuation....my observation is that virtual_box is faster. But intuitively Xen should have been faster due to lesser layers in between!) [16:20] That's not really a question, is it? [16:20] If so, I don't know the answer :) [16:20] QUESTION: Why was the KVM approach chosen over Xen? [16:20] Ah. There's an FAQ if there ever was one :) [16:20] Ok, there are a number of reasons. [16:21] Most of it boils down to supportability. [16:21] The amount of code in the kernel is very small and modular compared to Xen. [16:21] Xen is a significant kernel patch, which kvm lives in a tiny module. [16:22] (it's also significant that the kvm stuff is in the mainline kernel, while Xen isn't). [16:22] QUESTION: how is time synchronisation handled? Are there going to be "vmtools" for kvm? [16:22] Also, due to kvm providing a fully virtualised environment the guests are running unmodified as well. [16:23] yann2: I've not had any problems with time synchronisation inside kvm for months. [16:23] yann2: Have you? [16:24] QUESTION: How is KVM at running non FOSS operating systems? [16:24] Don't know, don't care. [16:24] Next [16:24] :) [16:24] QUESTION: how many cores can a guest VM handle? Can KVM use properly 4/8/16 cores (like not getting 2 cores killed while others are idle)? [16:24] fair enough [16:25] 255 is the max, afair. [16:25] QUESTION: while the kvm code in kernel is small, how big is kvm's patchset against qemu? [16:26] eddyMul: Good question. [16:26] Er.. [16:27] Well, kvm mostly uses qemu for it's excellent virtual hardwar implementation. [16:27] What kvm does differently is that it passes code execution off to the cpu rather than emulatiing it. [16:28] Which really mostly bypasses qemu. [16:28] Or those bits of it. [16:28] QUESTION: What would be a reasonable setup with ubuntu on the bare metal, and vms with jeos - in terms of performance limitations [16:28] THere's a lot of work going on to merge the two code bases, though. [16:29] Well, part of the beauty is that you can start out by putting a lot of vm's on one machine. If they turn out to be too ressource hungry, you can just move them to another machine. [16:29] kvm even supports doing this "live". [16:29] i.e. without shutting the vm down. [16:30] wow! [16:30] It's impossible to say anything general and useful about it. [16:30] Just remember that the overhead is very small, so if you've got.. [16:30] say.. [16:31] a 2.5 GHz machine with 2 GB ram in it, you can assign 1 GB ram to a guest and a few GB of space, and it will use the ram, but share the CPU with you. [16:31] ..so they will get CPU according to the host scheduler. [16:32] If nothing in particular is running on the host, the guest will get the full 2.5GHz available to it (pretty much). [16:32] QUESTION But in my testing Qemu has been by far the slowest virtualization. Is KVM faster? [16:32] So if you have services that rarely run at the same time, you can have a lot of virtual machines on the same host. [16:32] newlands_: Qemu is dead slow. KVM is near-native speed. [16:33] They work in *very* different ways. [16:33] QUESTION: can KVM guests use complete disk partitions from the host? How fast is the "disk format" of KVM? [16:33] qemu *emulates* everything. [16:34] yann2: KVM can use disk partitions (or logical volumes). No problem there. [16:34] w.r.t. to speed.. [16:34] soren: Maybe irrelevant question, will there be an frontend for KVM for desktop use? [16:34] Well, by default you use raw images. [16:34] There's no mapping, decompression or anything slowing you down. [16:35] If you're even using partitions or logical volumes rather than files, you should have near native I/O performance. [16:35] sergevn: Yes, virt-manager. [16:35] QUESTION: If i dont have a processor with VT (centrino duo laptop), is vmware server my best option to run XP? that is what I am using now [16:35] sergevn: It's there already. [16:35] QUESTION: KVM: Can you exclusive use a PCI card in the guest? like a dvb-card? [16:35] buxy: You could also use virtualbox. [16:35] Sorry, that was for buks. [16:35] Or qemu with kqemu. [16:36] There are many options. I recommend you try them to see which fits you best. [16:36] sergevn: please ask your question in #ubuntu-classroom-chat, prefixing with QUESTION [16:36] bigotto: I don't believe pci passthrough is finished yet. Sorry. [16:36] QUESTION: are you sure about that live migration bit? :) [16:37] yann2: Truth be told, it might be broken right now and it depends on certain circumstances, but yes. [16:37] yann2: The broken part will be fixed before release. [16:37] QUESTION: I know that streamlining the host OS on other virtualization platforms improves performance. While Jeos is primarily intended for VMGuest appliances, would it be a suitable environment for hosting KVM? [16:37] yann2: The design of kvm certainly supports it and it used to work (and will work soon again) [16:38] BadServo: Sure. [16:38] BadServo: You can also just use the server edition. [16:38] QUESTION: can KVM "share memory" between guests (e.g. boths guests run JeOS, can they "share memory")? [16:38] BadServo: The differences are very minor when you're not running in vmware. [16:38] eddyMul: Not right now. *maybe* before release. [16:39] QUESTION: Are there any plans that you are currently aware of to fix the dependency issues preventing installation of virt-manager in the official repositories on Gutsy prior to Hardy release? [16:40] BadServo: If I can find the time, I might backport the stuff to gutsy.. I much, much prefer testing results based on hardy, though. [16:40] Which brings me to another thing: [16:40] I could really, really use some testing of all of this. [16:40] Any feedback (good, bad, indifferent) would be much appreciated. [16:41] Feel free to /msg me on IRC, ask me in #ubuntu-virt, anything. [16:41] I'd love to hear from you. [16:41] QUESTION : xen + bridge-utils let administrators have a 'headache free' experience with the guest vm network, does kvm provide anything similar ? [16:41] Not kvm by itself. libvirt does. [16:42] ..but that distinction should not matter much to you, so the answer is pretty much "yes". :) [16:42] QUESTION: testing stuff for hardy: If I want to help, do you have a documented test plan? (so I don't just go poking around like crazy...) [16:42] ;-) [16:42] eddyMul: I'd rather not restrict the testing efforts in any way. Anything you feel should work in a vm, try it, and let me know if it works out for you. [16:43] Well.. One thing though: [16:43] I'm honestly not very interested to hear about testing results from Gutsy. [16:43] If you're not comfortable upgrading to hardy just yet, you can run kvm from a live cd! [16:44] (just don't forget that running on a livecd is probably quite a bit slower than your real system) [16:44] soren: it would be great to have a document about "if you want to test kvm support in hardy, here's how to start/boot" [16:44] eddyMul: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KvmVirtManagerEtc [16:45] There's a bit of stuff to get you started. [16:45] If there are no questions, I can tell a bit about the software stack we're using.. [16:45] go ahead... [16:45] On the host, we have kvm-60 in the kernel and likewise in user space. [16:46] This is the most recent kvm release (at least it was a few days ago). [16:46] On top of that, we have libvirt. [16:46] libvirt is both a library and a management daemon. [16:46] libvirt is mostly developed by RedHat. [16:46] The management daemon looks after your kvm processes when you can't be bothered to :) [16:47] You can connect to it, tell it to start up a virtual machine, and then disconnect. [16:47] If you need to access the console, you can connect to it via vnc and you'll see the regular login prompt. [16:47] For a GUI, we're using virt-manager (also from RedHat). [16:48] It provides a snazzy UI where you can see the VM's that are registered on each of your nodes (you can do remote management as well). [16:48] You can see how much memory they're using and all that sort of thing. [16:48] ..start them, stop them, freeze them, copy to another host, thaw them.. [16:48] All sorts of cool stuff. [16:49] We also have a little script called ubuntu-vm-builder.. [16:49] It can be used to bootstrap a new Ubuntu vm instance in no time at all (well, a few minutes, but it feels like no time at all). [16:50] Not surprisingly, this was developed by Ubuntu people :) [16:51] Aw, no questinos? [16:51] questions, even? [16:51] QUESTION: Where is ubuntu-vm-builder, I can't seem to find it in hardy [16:51] jcastro: It landed just a few hours ago. [16:52] jcastro: Hang on. [16:53] https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-vm-builder [16:53] I'm not making this up :) [16:53] QUESTION: As an authority on Virtualization technologies, what do you think will be the next steps as far as the evolution of VM capabilities. or host interactions. Since KVM is predominantly emulaiton based, do you feel mroe advanced paravirtualization will be less attractive int eh future? [16:53] kvm is not emulation based, really. [16:53] the version that just landed in Universe is broken for KVM at the moment. Use my branch instead... [16:53] I'll update ubuntu-vm-builder tonight to fix that :) [16:54] thanks soren :) [16:54] BadServo: We're employing several paravirtual sorts of things in kvm, too. [16:54] QUESTION: can KVM do snapshots? multiple snapshots? [16:55] BadServo: The virtio stuff is paravirtualisation. It depends on the host and the guest being aware of each other and their roles and thus make each others life easier and your stuff faster :) [16:55] yann2: Yes, kvm can. [16:55] yann2: virt-manager doesn't help you much in that respect, but kvm and libvirt both have the hooks to do so. [16:56] yann2: It's got a few idiosyncracies, though. [16:56] QUESTION: any possible future cooperation w/ rPath and their VM appliance stuff? [16:56] yann2: (it depends on the disk image format to be able to save snapshots and such. [16:57] eddyMul: Anything's possible :) Currently, there's no cooperation or even interaction (at least with me). [16:57] eddyMul: We really prefer to have just one base OS on top of which people can put their applications if the so please. [16:58] eddyMul: rather than having thousands of specially built OS's. [16:58] That could change though. [16:58] QUESTION: With Ubuntu adopting KVM as the preffered solution, has there been any noticeable increase in interest or development? [16:59] Well, one of the reasons we chose KVM was because it was already a *Very* active project. [16:59] * nijaba thinks that's the last question [16:59] Qumranet, IBM, and Intel are all involved to various degrees. [16:59] I don't think that has changed in either direction since we decided to use it. [17:00] 1700 UTC! [17:00] Thanks a lot soren and nijaba for hosting the session! [17:00] Thanks for stopping by, guys! Keep those test reports coming in! [17:00] I did not host anything... [17:00] \o/ [17:00] mzungu: Thanks! [17:00] But thanks :) [17:00] thank you [17:00] For those of you who have more interest in Virtualisation, there's always #ubuntu-virt [17:00] help soren to make Virtualisation ROCK for Hardy :) [17:01] Next up is "MOTU Processes" [17:01] thanks, soren [17:01] \0/ [17:01] thanks! [17:01] +1 even! [17:02] first of all I'd like to apologize, we had to change the schedule a bit yesterday, so for those of you interested in Virtualisation: the log will be available tomorrow on the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek page [17:02] also as I said before there's always #ubuntu-virt [17:02] and soren is happy to answer questions all day :) [17:02] soren: right? :) [17:02] OK... here we go - MOTU Processes [17:02] Sure thing. [17:03] if you have questions, please ask in #ubuntu-classroom-chat and prefix with QUESTION: - I'm happy to answer everything related to MOTU, Ubuntu Development and Drum'n'Bass music [17:03] first of all: What do MOTUs do and why should you care? :-) [17:03] MOTUs are the Masters of the Universe and take care of ~15000 packages in Universe and Multiverse [17:04] it's the first stepping stone for developing Ubuntu and MOTUs are a really friendly bunch of people [17:04] QUESTION: what's the difference between ~motu and ~ubuntu-dev on launchpad? [17:05] Riddell: ~ubuntu-dev includes ~motu plus ~ubuntu-core-dev [17:05] members of ~ubuntu-core-dev are allowed to upload to all parts of Ubuntu (main and restricted included) [17:05] the process for joining MOTU is relatively straight-forward [17:05] 1. you contribute and get patches and packages uploaded by sponsors [17:06] 2. you go back to 1. until your sponsors think you do a very good job and are tired of uploading them for you [17:06] 3. you apply for MOTU membership at the MOTU Council [17:06] done :) [17:06] QUESTION: how many MOTUs doesn't ubuntu have? [17:06] shiv_: Ubuntu could always do with more MOTUs :-) [17:07] ~ubuntu-dev lists 110 active members [17:07] QUESTION: how do you get people to sponsor you? [17:07] and [17:07] QUESTION: I have a patch in an LP bug report somewhere. How do I get it sponsored? [17:07] that's what I wanted to get to next [17:07] this process we call sponsoring: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess [17:08] basically you attach your patch to a bug report and subscribe the ubuntu-universe-sponsors (or for main/restricted the ubuntu-main-sponsors team) [17:08] they will review your work, test it, then use the patch, sign the source package with their GPG key, then upload to the build daemon [17:09] http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/ has an overview of the bugs that are currently sitting in the queue [17:09] but we dealt with lots lots lots more already :) [17:09] the process I just described just works for packages that are in Ubuntu already [17:10] what about NEW packages? completely new, never packaged software [17:10] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Packages/REVU explains how to upload your fresh and new package to a site we call REVU [17:11] it will have to be reviewed and acknowledged by 2 members of ubuntu-dev, then uploaded to the build daemons, then reviewed by the archive admins who have the final say [17:11] as we are in Feature Freeze right now, no NEW packages are accepted any more (only if they get a Freeze exception granted) [17:11] so it's probably better to fix bugs to make Hardy rock :-) [17:11] QUESTION: I want to help packaging games. Are there especific sponsors for especific topics or I can ask for help to any MOTU? [17:12] mirrado: the ubuntu-*-sponsors team take care of everything [17:12] mirrado: of course some teams do it differently and you can just tell somebody on the team to upload a patch you mailed them, but the generic process is preferrable since it does not block on certain people [17:12] QUESTION: If there is a new Debian release of a package, containing only bugfixes, can it be merged during FF without a special exception? [17:13] juliank: The process for that is explained at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess [17:13] main/restricted freeze exception are granted by the ubuntu-release team [17:13] short answer: yes [17:13] universe/multiverse freeze exception are granted by the motu-release team [17:14] sistpoty|work: was my answer wrong? [17:15] dholbach: nope... but that allowing bugfix only releases (at least for motu) was decided just an hour ago (unless motu-meeting should decide otherwise) [17:15] ;) [17:15] sistpoty|work: ah interesting - thanks for letting us know [17:16] as you can see: our processes change every now and then, because we aim to make working in Ubuntu even more straight-forward :) [17:16] QUESTION: OFFTOPIC: Do MOTUs have a life outside contributing to ubuntu? Is there enough time to do a day job and a MOTU's tasks? [17:16] InsClusoe: absolutely [17:16] the MOTUs who are here maybe can comment on that :) [17:16] QUESTION: if I have a patch for git-core, and if apt-cache says git-core belongs to "main", should I subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to my bug? (#188218) [17:16] eddyMul: exactly [17:17] are there any other questions about "Joining MOTU" and "Sponsorship Process"? [17:18] I'm happy if it all seems straight-forward to you too :) [17:18] the question I usually get most is: "Do I need to know a lot of programming languages to become a MOTU?" [17:19] I gave the answer so many times, that I added it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/FAQ - let me quote :) [17:19] Much more important than having a lot of progamming experience is [17:19] * being a good team player [17:19] * learning by reading documentation, trying things out and not being afraid to ask questions [17:19] * being highly motivated [17:19] * having a knack for trying to make things work [17:19] * having some detective skills [17:19] I hope you feel encouraged :-) [17:20] let's go back to Feature Freeze exceptions as that's the stage of the release schedule we're in right now [17:20] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule [17:21] they are generally necessary for packages that contain a new upstream version and for completely NEW packages [17:21] later down the road to the release the upload queue will be frozen and all changes have to be ACKed [17:21]