[00:53] Hi everybody. [00:58] Well - anybody from marketing team available for chat? [00:59] don't know if i can help you or not, but i'll try [00:59] :) [01:00] Why is Marketing section on the wiki a total mess? [01:01] that i no nothing about, can you be more specific about which section please [01:01] A sec. :) [01:01] kk [01:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam [01:02] there it starts [01:02] looking hang on [01:03] the pages just does not lead anywhere - most of the links are broken [01:03] and the information available is useless [01:04] looks like someone edited on that page today quite a bit [01:05] we'll get someone to look at it [01:05] thx for bringing it to our attention [01:07] Well generally speaking is actually Ubuntu Marketing team productive in any ways? Are there any comclusions/notes/minutes available I can go through? [01:08] I have found some notes from meetings. [01:09] we are still active [01:09] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings [01:09] agreed, meetings have been sparce of late [01:10] it looks like the next meeting is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings/Minutes/2008-04-01 [01:12] that is more than 2 months from now. its a pity that marketing side of the community is not properly managed. [01:14] here is the contact info of the person who last edited the page, you might email him with any questions at this point danny.piccirillo@ubuntu.com [01:14] Hi Maco. DPic was working on that Marketing wiki page. Might be able to provide some insight. [01:14] hey desertc [01:15] I just invited DPic here. [01:15] kk [01:15] Heya, JC [01:15] hello [01:16] Hi desertc [01:16] hi DPic [01:16] DPic: maco was asking about the wiki [01:16] maco: hey, what's up? [01:16] and the reason why so long before next meeting [01:16] DPic: Since you brought it up twice this weekend, I thought you could address his questions. [01:16] of course [01:16] desertc, Im generally interested in Marketing side of things and I can find literally nothing that would help me to understand how Marketing team works [01:17] I believe DPic was working to update the format of the wiki. Maybe he can take your thoughts and include them with his changes. [01:18] (Not to put any more words in DPic's mouth...) ;) [01:18] ha, no problem dessertc [01:18] maco: yes, so what kind of information would help you? [01:18] I thing that the whole issue is that I can not find objectives defined for the Marketing team - the goals, achievements, anythinf... [01:19] the mission is the fix bug #1 [01:19] we just work to bring ubuntu to more people [01:20] well :) that's nice - but are there any particular strategies and implementations to tackle problem no. 1 ? :) [01:20] part of the strategy is the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter [01:20] put out once a wk [01:20] great! [01:20] maco: you can see our projects on the projects page in our wiki [01:21] you are also free to talk about any ideas you have or start a project of your own [01:21] DPic, let me check the page once again so I am sure I did not miss anything. [01:22] The Weekly News Letter does seems to me the main focus of this group, other than providing a mailing list that accumulates unorganized ideas. [01:23] ... at least as of lately. [01:23] It is very quiet in the IRC channel, for instance. [01:24] agreed [01:24] dessertc, i'm hoping we can get organized and do more [01:24] maybe it would be worthwhile to actually start aggregating those ideas and maybe compile a web site with them and start working on some proof of concepts and so forth [01:24] that's why i redid the wiki [01:24] maco: we do have an ideas page also on the wiki :) [01:25] I would love to be part of organized media campaigns. I am already getting started with some independent communication projects. [01:25] DPic, I think Wiki is not a way to go with marketing [01:25] hello [01:26] Mike_Feravolo: hey [01:26] maco: what do you mean? the wiki is just for the team [01:26] that doesn't mean we'll be marketing from the wiki [01:26] it spells out the focus of the team [01:26] i noticed that people are talking about marketing [01:26] DPic, oh - never mind than - what about the actual people interested in Ubuntu - propagation is one of marketing objectives - or is that a part of some other team ? [01:27] maco: no that is our team, but i'm not sure what you mean by what about actual people... [01:27] actual people will be going to www.ubuntu.com not looking into the marketing team [01:28] I have a question; Who is the marketing team trying to target ? [01:29] DPic, Im trying to get a grip of what actually Marketing Team does - it it is involve in actually WRITING the weekly NL it is more of editorial role than marketing from my perrespective [01:29] everyone [01:29] ^ Mike_Feravolo [01:29] :) [01:29] DPic...everyone....its defenetely not everyone [01:29] Okay, Who is "everyone" [01:29] we try to mrket ubuntu to whever we can [01:30] isn't that right? [01:30] the ubuntu weekly newletter is just one of our projects [01:30] Actually - maybe it is everyone since marketing can also make people "aware" of things [01:30] yes [01:30] And how much money does the marketing team have to spend ? [01:30] 0 ? [01:30] yeah. [01:31] DPic, there is this thing - focus group - focus goup should be defined [01:31] well, we are no different than say the loco teams [01:31] okay so our team should be a resource for anyone and everyone who want to spread ubuntu [01:31] i'm hoping the new resources and materials pages i've created on the wiki will be useful for those people [01:32] DPic, are there any particular resources f.e. LOCO teams were asking for? f.e. slideshow templates, posters, artwork, propaganda, statistics... ? [01:32] So far the best thing that I have found on the marketing DYI site is the Freedom Highway Poster [01:32] maybe the team should focus foremost to support LOCOs and direcly involved individuals within the community [01:33] maco: i'm hoping those resources will come soon. there is an ubuntu wiki page with some presentations on it [01:33] but it isn't ours [01:34] DPic, yeah, I can see them. [01:34] and helping individuals and loco teams is included in out mission [01:34] DPic: is there a chance we can move that april meeting up some, seems like it's a long way away. We should be working on things to boost the hardy release ?? [01:34] Mike_Feravolo, I cannot even find that poster [01:35] I got an 18 meg copy somewhere, that prints well [01:35] if we wait till april, we'll be to far behind for hardy [01:35] johnc4510-laptop: i didn't make the date for that meeting. someone already had that set as the next meeting when i redid the wiki [01:35] Mike_Feravolo, 72dpi shot is fine :) [01:35] I think you have to dig into the Do It Yourseld site and look for an 18 Meg PDF [01:35] lol :) [01:35] well thats not very flexible is it ? :) [01:36] does this team have a leader or a couple people who tend to be mostly in charge? [01:36] DPic: kk, i think we should discuss that idea with whomever we need to, to try to get it changed maybe [01:36] wasn't there some king of "Spread Ubuntu" project going on ? [01:36] maco: yes [01:36] you can see it on the projects page [01:37] i'm not sure if it's still being worked on [01:37] a lot of the projects have come to a standstill [01:37] I think this should be dramatically changed. [01:39] I googled the poster and all the links are dead, [01:39] I reckon to move the meeting to sooner date - I am volunteering to help with the management and design end of things. [01:39] A great example of the flaws in the Ubuntu Marketing Plan [01:40] should the meeting be this month or march? [01:40] Mike_Feravolo, link? [01:41] DPic: end of this month, or first of next month [01:41] jenda, from the marketing team was selling the posters in print about a year ago [01:41] DPic, I reckon this month - give people 10-13 days notice. [01:41] DPic: i could submit an email to the list and see what kind of response we get [01:41] ?? [01:41] johnc4510, ideed [01:42] i'm already working on an email :) [01:42] or we can talk to nixternal or beuno [01:42] kk [01:43] what days of the week are generally best? [01:43] i think it would be better if we planned on a date, sent an email, and made sure it's okay [01:43] tuesday [01:43] DPic: for me any day is ok, i'm flexible [01:43] :) [01:44] maco: is tuesday the only day that works for you? [01:44] 4th of march? [01:44] DPic, no, Im rather flexible, but weekends are busy. [01:44] DPic: in the email try to stress the point that we need to get to work on the hardy release campaign of some kind [01:45] alright [01:45] ie strategy for it [01:48] desertc, the posters are gr8! :) very thematic - i like that kind of approach :) [01:48] It seems to me that there currently is no marketing plan, other then giving away CD's ? [01:48] ah! great! glad for positive feedback [01:49] I hope that I am wrong on this [01:49] I'm following this discussion without much to add, but let me know how I can help out. You've got another pair of hands here. [01:49] how about we have a meeting next tuesday? [01:49] feb 26 [01:50] what time are the meetings ? [01:50] DPic: it's ok with me [01:50] DPic, fine for me. [01:50] well 7pm ESt is best for me [01:50] EST? UTC? [01:50] DPic: you need to set it up in UTC time please [01:51] 00:00 UTC is it ? [01:52] wel... 24:00 :) [01:52] DPic: calendar of meetings is clear for tuesday the 26th http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event [01:53] 7pm tuesday for me is 00:00 UTC wednesday [01:53] can we do that? [01:53] it's ok with me [01:54] it will be 1:00 AM for me - but beat it! no prob! [01:54] will, it be ok with the team leaders? [01:54] who are the team leaders ? [01:54] Does this mean that there are going to be regular meetings ? [01:54] i hope so [01:54] :) [01:54] monthly, bi-monthly? [01:55] team leaders would be beuno and nixternal i think not sure [01:55] I work in the Orlando Florida Area, and my business is Linux [01:55] DPic: lets decide that at the meeting ?? [01:55] depending on how individually people want to be involved in - I suggest to have meeting every 10 days [01:56] almost weekly? [01:56] it might make more send to go by a weekly schedule [01:56] sense* [01:57] I think that should be discussed after the team evaluates its goals [01:57] as i said that should probably be an item for the meeting [01:58] will somebody set-up an agenda page for the meeting? [01:58] Some of the people who are usually active here are absent at present... popey and smirnov (sp?) [01:58] yes [01:58] popey is important [01:58] already done [01:59] Given the global nature of the team, floating the day of the week and time of day would allow more people to attend. [01:59] like on a 10 day schedule [02:00] something like 10th,20th,30th [02:01] Mike_Feravolo: interesting idea but the problem is that if we follow that there might be some days where most people simply aren't available [02:02] agreed [02:02] Just an idea, [02:02] np [02:02] what about very quick meetings every week ? [02:03] and one major meeting every month [02:03] actually, this channel is for discussions and idea exchanges between meeting [02:03] 15min, 15min, 15min, MAJOR and repeating [02:03] johnc4510 Has marketing had a meeting lately? I have not known of any. [02:03] me either [02:04] :( [02:04] maco: well not much can get done during a small meeting. it's just like the discussion that would happen otherwise [02:04] but we should make sure the teams leads know about this too [02:04] i'm a core member of the MA team and we have montly meeting and that's worked well [02:04] Any proposal for a meeting would be better than the absence of any. [02:04] DPic, those 15 minute meetings shoulb be focused only for evaluation of what have been done [02:04] ...and what havent [02:05] DPic, can you please clarify "MA" [02:05] sorry, massachusetts [02:06] a state in the US [02:06] DPic, cheers :) [02:06] Maco -- aren't you from Massachusetts? :) [02:06] desertc, far from it :) [02:06] oops! [02:06] Since, this team works on a zero dollar spend, something that would look good in a full page magizine as would get the message across [02:07] then people could print them and get there out there in their local marketplace [02:07] the freedom poster meets those requirements [02:09] Mike_Feravolo, we however need to evaluate if the whole process in not counter productive. [02:09] Excuse me ? [02:09] What would you write on the poster? desertc has great ideas for posters, however that message is hardly followed on the wiki pages. [02:10] Sorry, for being abstract I was just suggesting the format [02:11] Mike_Feravolo, sure thing. [02:11] All I know is passing out CD's has not been effective, unless the objective is to give away coasters [02:12] (... maco ... not same as mako ... sigh) [02:12] haha [02:12] I don't get it. [02:12] you aren't Mako [02:12] dessertc confused you for him [02:13] Ah. I can see that :) [02:13] yep. but please continue... this is a great conversation [02:13] Printed material is more cost effective, the leaflets are also good. But I would go broke in red toner [02:14] I pay people to layout ads, since I suck at it [02:14] That's what LOCOs are. Marketing should support LOCOs and other teams, not to directly execute the propaganda. [02:14] I am a programmer, not an artist, however as a business owner I have to sell like it or not [02:14] I like to say, "A CD-ROM works only when the person is convinced to put it in their computer and install it. A poster works as soon as someone looks at it." [02:15] exactly [02:16] Yes, but with poster you have to be VERY specific about the focus group you are attracting. Where do you put the poster? How do you attract that particular group with 4 words on the poster? [02:16] Also, the Software Freedom angle is a good sell, since people run away as soon as you say Linux [02:17] Why not to tink about Ubuntu as fun thing to do? Hobby, passion - all of the things you are not able to experience in other OSes? [02:17] I go to a lot of local chamber of commerce and business networking events and get to talk one on one to people in business [02:17] It'll be great to have a selection of posters -- that way a LoCo can choose the one that suits the occasion. [02:18] Awesome, a central collection of posters for the LOCO's to draw from is a great idea [02:18] or anyone else that likes Ubuntu [02:18] Well - as has been said before - Marketing Team has to FOREMOST define its focus group. Mike_Feravolo is talking business. I am talking individuals ... [02:18] But there are also news papers and other communication methods that can be considered and digested by this team. [02:19] Articles? Interviews with developers? [02:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Materials [02:19] I talking how to take on a mutli-billion dollar software monpoly with zero dollars [02:19] we should post stuff to there [02:19] can someone pload that poster? [02:19] Imagine if we had a generic press release about the Hardy release, and this team worked with all the LoCos to get that pushed into their local papers, all at one time. [02:20] dessertc, that would be great! [02:20] Just think about how effective that distributed work would be. [02:20] yeah! [02:20] Right now I want people to know that you can buy a computer without that tax stamp on the side [02:20] desertc, I like the idea. [02:21] secound that [02:21] create series of press releases from 10 words long one to full page one. [02:21] Each LoCo could re-tool the generic press release so it was specific for their own team, thus giving the paper a chance to do a "local" story. [02:21] make them easy to find, not like now [02:21] :-) [02:21] Shall we say "Local" to be the theme for hardy? [02:21] Papers like giving copy space to local efforts. [02:22] focusing on helping LOCOs to grow? [02:22] Yes, but in addition to writing the press release, I think it is equally important to push the content onto the LoCos to get the word out. [02:22] LOCOs can than do all work for us if somebody will be interested :) [02:23] Can the group get the press releases for Hardy over the wires [02:23] desertc, indeed - maybe it would be worth to create template which every loco will use to produce their own short press release and tham gather them together to create huge poster for the community ? :) [02:23] Yeap -- their mission is already to promote Ubuntu intheir communities. They should, in theory, want to do this. [02:24] and ask them to make the press release very local-specific [02:24] include some local attachement [02:24] Anyway, I think I sidetracked the conversation. I'll bring this up at the meeting we are planning. [02:25] maco: see our news and press page on the wiki [02:25] a sec [02:25] actually https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PressReleaseTemplate [02:26] :) [02:26] i made that from a guide from the sierra club [02:27] Do people know what "open source" means ? [02:27] Do we know how active the LoCos are? Do they write their own press releases ? [02:29] It would be fine to get in touch with every individual LoCo asking them about their propaganda strategies and if they work - gather some know-how. [02:30] I know people that can get press releases over the wire, but it costs money. [02:30] most people don't know what open source or free software is, no [02:30] Even if we reach out to a dozen on this go-around, then we can get in contact with more next time. [02:30] most loco's don't write their own press releases [02:30] some do [02:31] can someone give me a link to the highway to freedome poster? [02:31] freedom* [02:31] Exactly, why "Open Source" is on the list of terms to avoid on the FSF site [02:31] DPic, I haven't found it. [02:31] just found it http://gasteropod.deviantart.com/art/ubuntu-highway-43996915 [02:32] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html [02:32] because open source isn't about freedom [02:32] it's merely about "open source" not about software freedom [02:33] beacuse open source is means nothing [02:33] Just one of those west coast terms [02:35] Let me have some sleep. Will see you soon. I have just signed-up to the mailinglists so will stay in close touch. [02:35] G'nite. [02:36] peace [02:42] just sent out the email [02:46] :) [02:56] can you look at the calendar i created linked to from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings using the google calendar link to make sure the data is correct? [02:57] and that nothing is screwed up by the time zones? [03:01] DPic: send an email to fridge-devel about the meeting [03:02] so other teams don't schedule something at the same time [03:02] alright [03:08] DPic: calendar shows 10pm mst on tuesday the 26th [03:08] DPic: schedule on marketing page shows the 27th wed [03:08] under upcoming meetings it says April 1st [03:08] on the wiki [03:09] actually, it says both lol [03:09] true [03:10] johnc4510-laptop: is 10pm MST the same as 00:00 UTC? [03:12] no, it's 5:00am UTC [03:12] alright i know the problem [03:12] http://www.hamuniverse.com/utctime.html [03:12] ^^ conversion table if you need it [03:14] is the calendar correct now [03:14] ? [03:14] looking [03:15] looks right here [03:15] shows 5pm mst and 00:00 UTC [03:16] be sure to get this on the fridge as boredandblogging said, we'll get it in the UWN next sunday if it is [03:18] i sent an email but it bounced [03:18] hmmm [03:19] i've actually never send anything to that list [03:19] boredandblogging: why would it bounce an email to the fridge list? [03:20] it shouldn't bounce [03:20] fridge gets plenty of email from non-subscribed members [03:20] specifically to put events on the calendar [03:21] DPic: are you a member of that list? [03:21] subscribed to it? [03:23] it said no subscription necessary but it's pretty obvious that isn't true [03:23] it is true [03:23] let me put it on the fridge calendar [03:23] kk [03:24] the email i got said that i had to be subsribed : [03:24] :/ * [03:24] lol [03:24] DPic: nick will take care of it :) [03:25] okay cool [03:25] assume we are going to do the meeting in here? [03:26] yeah [03:29] done [03:29] ty nick [03:29] np [03:34] DPic: i changed the wiki page to show the correct meeting date and time with a link to a conversion table for other time zones [03:34] you did? i thought i'd already updated the wiki to the correct date like ten minutes ago.. [03:34] when you first mentioned it [03:34] or idk if it was you [03:35] where did you fix it? [03:35] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings [03:35] there's where i corrected it [03:36] under upcoming meetings [03:36] yeah, i'd already fixed it. you just deleted the link to the meeting page [03:37] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings?action=diff&rev2=82&rev1=81 [03:37] oh, well the time link was wrong [03:37] looking [03:38] no problem, i added the link back. thanks for catching that error in the link to the conversion table [03:38] ok, put the link back in then but correct the day to the 26th [03:39] instead of the 27th :) [03:39] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarketingTeam/Meetings?action=diff&rev2=82&rev1=81 [03:40] 26th? [03:40] didn't we agree on wednesday? [03:40] the 27th? [03:41] maybe i'm wrong looking back up the page to see [03:42] i found it-- look around 2 hours ago [03:42] ok, it's 00:00 UTC which is wed. but tues here [03:42] LOL [03:43] haha yeah [03:45] :) i always get somewhat confused by UTC hee hee [03:48] it's on the fridge calendar now [03:50] cool [04:01] i think we need to clean up our projects [04:01] some of them never happened and never will [04:04] DPic: there is content at http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/DIY%20Material/ that could probably be reused for hardy [04:04] or anything under http://doc.ubuntu.com/~marketing/spreadubuntu/ [04:04] i'm new enough to the team not to know about older projects, i work on the UWN the most [04:07] DPic: both of those nick pointed to look ok to reuse for now [04:08] all kinds of posters and artwork [04:09] watching alien vs predator, people are getting abused [10:50] Mike_Feravolo: Indeed... unfortunately, I no longer have time for that. [10:50] juliux: ping [10:51] jenda, pong [10:51] juliux: so, I can get your stickers made. [10:51] cool [10:51] 5000 for you and 2000 for a US loco [10:52] I'm thinking it's the least I can do, since I've been neglecting my Ubuntu work for a long time now :D [10:52] What ratios (U:K:X:E) would you like? [10:53] juliux: and it should cost you about €320 [10:53] With shipping, max €330 [10:54] ok [10:54] * MenZa ships jenda [10:54] hey, juliux [10:55] heya, Menny-Z :) [10:55] :D [10:55] Nice to see you. [10:55] likewise :) [10:55] :D [10:55] How's you? [10:57] Busy ;( [10:57] Need to hand in a translation on thursday... [10:57] and have a ton more to do [10:57] no way I can make it :D [10:57] And I'm off to India early Friday morning. [10:58] so... off to work :) [10:58] juliux: and I need those numbers before I leave, if you want them made. [10:59] jenda, we want 3000 ubuntu, 1000 kubuntu, 750 edubuntu, 250 xubuntu [10:59] jenda, for 330€ inkl. shiping to de [11:00] that was quick :) [11:00]