crimsun_persia: / TheMuso: lp:~ubuntu-core-dev/pulseaudio/ubuntu rev1500:08
crimsun_persia: / TheMuso: I have some question as to how thoroughly the definitions are parsed; I'll look into it further.  In the meantime, please try the above.00:09
crimsun_persia: and since you guys have commit access now, feel free...00:09
crimsun_TheMuso: ^00:09
TheMusocrimsun_: Thanks, will take a look shortly.00:12
slangasekmok0: I think you may have missed a transition package when merging claws-mail?  claws-mail-clamav is no longer built from source, but sylpheed-claws-gtk2-clamav depends on it00:23
mok0slangasek: hmmm00:23
mok0slangasek: I will take a look00:23
mok0slangasek: yeah, there is no such package...00:27
mok0slangasek: I wonder if there should be, or if the dependency is wrong00:27
slangasekthe package existed before you merged the new upstream version... :)00:29
mok0slangasek: it seems it's gone from the debian version00:31
slangasekwell, ok00:32
slangasekthen I guess the compat package should also be dropped?00:32
mok0slangasek: I guess00:32
slangasek+  - Upstream removed clamav plugin from main tarball (Closes: #462963)00:32
slangasekah, there it is00:32
ubotu5-a-day is a community event where each person will take 5 bugs a day and work on them. Everyone is invited to help no matter your abilities! More information available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day00:32
* nixternal runs and hides00:33
mok0slangasek: will you fix it?00:35
slangasekmok0: do you agree that the compat package should be dropped, and only readded if the clamav plugin gets packaged separately?00:36
mok0slangasek: yes00:36
mok0slangasek: the compat package goes with the plugin00:37
slangasekok, uploading00:38
mok0slangasek: great00:38
ScottKbigon: For Gutsy, all the telepathy packages were part of a general exception for Ubuntu Mobile.  Before I expend effort again on figuring out if Telepathy stuff should be upgraded, please find out from the Ubuntu Mobile folks if such an exception exists again for Hardy.00:42
ScottKslangasek and mok0: Upstream dropped the package in claws mail 3.3 (it's in their upstream changelog.00:43
mok0ScottK: slangasek has removed the dependencies now00:44
ScottKOf course the reason they dropped it (licensing concerns with non-free unrar code) don't apply to the Debian clamav package, but it's still gone.00:44
mok0ScottK: is it going to be packaged separately?00:44
ScottKmok0: All I know is what's in the changelog.00:45
mok0ScottK: right00:45
slangasek | N libphp-serialization-perl/0.27-1/i386 Component: main Section: perl Priority: OPTIONAL01:01
* slangasek slits his wrists to have done with it01:01
StevenKAh ha. My sync request.01:03
FujitsuThat sounds so, so wrong.01:11
FujitsuThough I've had a use for such a thing before, admittedly.01:11
bddebianHeya gang02:17
emgentheya :P02:17
bddebianHello emgent02:17
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
=== lamalex_2 is now known as lamaex
=== lamaex is now known as lamalex_2
=== lamalex_2 is now known as lamalex
chrisb_is this the right place to be for help with building source?04:01
nhainesHello, everyone!04:45
slomo_superm1: ping? :)05:27
nhainesOops!  Not for me.05:27
superm1slomo_, hey :)  I was just about to get the last few things together.  just got some free time now.  i'll let you know once i'm done05:28
slomo_superm1: perfect :)05:29
jdongtoo lazy to check launchpad at 1AM, but I am assuming the pycentral breakage on Hardy is known?05:57
jdongbug 19299205:57
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192992 in python-central "[hardy] pycentral crashed with ValueError in parse_versions()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19299205:57
jdongok guess I wasn't too lay05:57
TheMusojdong: Yeah its known alright.05:58
jdongI'm assuming when python breaks word gets out fast :D05:58
superm1slomo_, okay all updated up http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/gmyth/06:13
slomo_superm1: perfect :)06:13
crimsun_hmm, looking at python-central's parse_versions(), does the tried "op, v = m.group(1), m.group(2)" work if m == None?06:14
slomo_superm1: i'll review again now, if it's fine i'll upload06:14
slomo_superm1: ok?06:14
superm1slomo_, sounds great to me06:14
slomo_superm1: :)06:14
crimsun_looking at the bug reports, vstring is being passed to parse_versions() as 'python:Versions=2.4'06:15
slomo_superm1: the gmyth-utils short description is not perfect yet imho but i can live with that ;) maybe something that just says that these are commandline utilities for doing things with a mythtv backend is nicer than saying that it's utilities from the gmyth package06:17
superm1slomo_, the utilities themselves are very un-useful too.. i wouldnt expect them to be used for anything other than testing when things aren't working06:18
slomo_superm1: ok06:18
slomo_superm1: "Section:libs" without space, i'll change that ;)06:19
superm1oops :)06:19
slomo_superm1: you don't link the things explicitely with libglib and stuff, right?06:20
superm1slomo_, no i dont06:20
slomo_superm1: that's a bug then... also it's LDFLAGS, not LD_FLAGS06:21
slomo_superm1: want me to fix these two things or do you want to do it yourself? :)06:21
superm1slomo_, well if its just those two left you can go ahead, if  there is more i'll do it06:21
slomo_superm1: ok, will do it then06:22
slomo_superm1: otherwise it's great06:22
superm1slomo_, afterwards, if you've got time for one more, i have another perl related one that i wanted to bring up to debian as well06:23
slomo_superm1: i don't know anything about perl... but when it's easy :)06:23
superm1slomo_, yeah its a really straightforward package.  i'm just cleaning up the description a little bit for it.06:24
tonyyarussoHey, I'm reading Conduit release notes, and noticed that among other things it now supports synching Gmail contacts and fixes a bunch of Flickr bugs.  These seem pretty important to me - what are your thoughts on a possible update to 0.3.8 for Hardy?06:25
superm1tonyyarusso, file a FFe on it.06:34
superm1tonyyarusso, ~motu-release makes the final call06:34
tonyyarussosuperm1: Seems worthy of consideration at least to you though?  (wanted to bounce it off someone before filing)06:36
superm1tonyyarusso, if its fixing a bunch of bugs i think so06:38
superm1but in the end will have to see how much else changed06:38
tonyyarussoAlso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess says the request must include a diffstat and testing information, which I am not able to provide - presumably someone else could tack that on as able?06:38
tonyyarussowell, I guess I could figure out the diffstat thing - looks relatively simple06:39
superm1tonyyarusso, fill out as much as you can about it, if you aren't sure of something, ask here about it06:40
slomo_superm1: ok, fixed all now ;)06:44
superm1slomo_, great, so all set then ?06:44
slomo_superm1: may i add myself as uploaders or do you want to have it all your own? ;)06:44
superm1slomo_, you can add yourself on06:45
superm1if ever i'm busy with other things, its good to have a fall back06:45
dholbachgood morning06:46
slomo_superm1: ok, building and then uploading now :)06:47
superm1great :).  slomo_ if you've still got some more time, this is the other one I wanted to pull up to debian too: http://mentors.debian.net/debian/pool/main/l/libnet-upnp-perl/06:48
tonyyarussosuperm1: err, is 'diff -ruN <package>-{old-version,new-version} | diffstat > diffstat.txt06:50
superm1tonyyarusso, yeah that looks right06:50
dholbachtonyyarusso: that looks good06:50
tonyyarussoSo "conduit-0.3.8.tar.gz |binary \n 1 file changed" is all I'm supposed to get?06:50
superm1tonyyarusso, you have to extract the .tar.gz06:51
slomo_superm1: doh, the -dev package is broken :)06:51
superm1and you run it across the two directories06:51
superm1is the idea06:51
slomo_superm1: i'll fix it06:51
superm1so that -r in the switches recurses06:51
superm1slomo_, how is it broken?  It built fine here?06:51
tonyyarussosuperm1: Aaah.  I'll have to clarify the wiki then methinks.06:51
slomo_superm1: yes but look at the content.. should be /usr/include/gmyth but is /usr/include/gmyth/gmyth06:52
tonyyarussomuch better06:52
superm1slomo_, that makes me wonder how these other apps were able to nicely build against it in that state06:54
slomo_superm1: gst-plugins-bad didn't, that's how i noticed it fortunately06:54
slomo_superm1: oh, the pkg-config file... hm06:55
superm1slomo_, I better check the ubuntu build log for it then, because ours did (and works)06:55
slomo_superm1: ok, i found the reason, nevermind06:55
slomo_superm1: uploaded07:07
slomo_superm1: now we have to wait a week or something for it to come from NEW07:07
superm1slomo_, ah queues, just like in Ubuntu07:07
superm1well my first package in debian.  yay :)07:08
superm1thanks for helping get that in, and especially so quick07:08
slomo_np :)07:08
StevenKOh, so pycentral needs to fixed and packages forced to rebuild?07:17
StevenKUp and enter in the wrong terminal :-/07:17
warp10Hi all!08:07
LucidFoxhello warp1008:12
warp10howdy LucidFox!08:14
BUGabundohi there08:51
BUGabundocan someone please test bug #193195 ?08:51
* LucidFox shakes his fist in ubotu's general direction08:56
sorenbug 19319508:57
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193195 in ubuntu "[hard] trickle upload limit blocks wget" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19319508:57
BUGabundohi soren08:58
BUGabundocan you give it a test?08:58
BUGabundotrickle seems to only limit download speed08:58
BUGabundonot upload!08:58
sorenSorry, I'm a bit tied up right now.08:58
BUGabundook, soren08:58
BUGabundoI understand08:58
awen-bug 192310 <- does this seem like the correct solution?09:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192310 in hyphen "package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19231009:16
gesergood morning09:22
warp10morning geser09:26
geserHi warp1009:26
BUGabundohi there geser09:27
geserHi BUGabundo09:27
ssamthe package lybniz needs a sync from debian, or a one line patch to fix its 2 open bugs. is there any thing i could do to make it more likely to happen?09:32
dholbachssam: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SyncRequestProcess09:33
ssamdo you need to be a MOTU to do that?09:34
pochuanyone from the MOTU Release team for a 2nd ACK in bug 192156?09:36
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192156 in amule "[FeatureFreezeException] New upstream svn snapshot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19215609:36
BUGabundowho here is responsible for packing trickle?09:37
LucidFoxssam> no, you don't need to be a MOTU to request a sync, but a MOTU must approve it after you file it09:38
ssamhttps://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lybniz/+bug/193210 is that ok?09:50
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193210 in lybniz "please sync lybniz (1.3.2-1)  from debian lenny (testing) (math)" [Undecided,New]09:50
pochu\o/ wxwidgets2.8 in Debian09:54
DktrKranzpochu: REALLY?10:00
BUGabundopython-central bug?10:00
BUGabundowrong wind. sorry10:01
pochuDktrKranz: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2008/02/msg01982.html10:03
DktrKranzpochu: oh... hijacked! :)10:04
pochuDktrKranz: the only bad news is that it's in experimental. But hey, that's better than sticking with wx2.6...10:04
DktrKranzI think Ron is going to find some AK4710:04
DktrKranzpochu: better there than nowhere, so there's a chance to sync it in Hardy + 110:07
pochuDktrKranz: yeah, hopefully someone (doko?) uploads it to unstable soonish10:08
emgentheya people10:09
DktrKranzpochu: I don't want to be hijacked :D10:16
pochuOh yeah let's hijack Luca! :P10:16
DktrKranzpochu: well... Devid actually10:18
pochuoh right10:19
pochuDktrKranz: sad he's not here for the good news10:19
DktrKranzpochu: better not having him around when there will be need to sync wxwidgets! :)10:24
pochuDktrKranz: let's merge dfiloni's changes in the Debian package!10:26
pochuDktrKranz: can you already upload to Debian? ;-)10:26
DktrKranzpochu: I am destroying one distro at a time, actually (was: no upload privileges for me in Debian)10:53
geserScottK: ip4r added support (and also a new package) for postgresql-8.3 (the default in hardy). Does it need a FF exception?11:05
slomoLucidFox: are all your f-spot changes in debian too already?11:17
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
emgentheya \sh :)12:03
hellboy195\sh: you seems to be angry .. about wine?12:04
hellboy195\sh: good. how's the progress :)12:05
\shhellboy195: lets see :)12:07
\shis it feasable to re-upload a NEW package which was rejected, because of a silly mistake by me inside the license file, without prior approval? :)12:08
\shhellboy195: regarding bug #191575 jurjen said it works now after the last upgrade...I'll try to check this12:08
ubotuLaunchpad bug 191575 in wine "wine segfaults on winecfg" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19157512:08
hellboy195\sh: I'm ready that currently ^^12:09
hellboy195\sh: yeah, it's really really strange12:12
ScottKgeser: Isn't postgresql-8.3 in Main?12:21
geserScottK: it is12:23
persia\sh: Yes.  Once you have approval to NEW a package, re-NEWing it is covered by the same approval.12:23
\shhellboy195: at least on amd64 it doesn't work at all12:23
ScottKgeser: Then it's nothing to do with motu-release.12:23
\shpersia: thx12:24
geserScottK: ip4r (universe) builds currently only a package for postgresql-8.2 but the new one from Debian unstable has how also a package for postgresql-8.312:24
ScottKI see.12:24
hellboy195\sh: well we can ignore amd64 users ^^,  no to be serious that's a serious problem :\12:25
persia\sh: Just as an explanation, it's my opinion that archive-admin rejection isn't that different from automated rejection for a bad upload.  Assuming you can fix it, and work with the archive admins to get it approved, it's just a bugfix.12:25
ScottKI'd say yes, but it's definitely one we'd want.12:25
persiageser: For dep-wait stuff, do we need to ask for give-backs, or will that just happen?12:25
\shpersia: yepp..that's how I see it, too, but not being sure myself12:25
geserScottK: I will file a request for a FF exception then12:26
geserpersia: depwait will start building automatically once the waiting package (and version) is available12:26
bigonScottK: hi I don't understand you comment on bug #19284712:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192847 in telepathy-salut "Please sync telepathty-salut 0.3.1-1 (universe) from debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19284712:26
persia\sh: It's just my opinion.  If you want a formal statement, you could file a FFe bug, but I suspect motu-release currently has enough of them :)12:26
ScottKbigon: For Gutsy, all the telepathy packages were part of a general exception for Ubuntu Mobile.  Before I expend effort again on figuring out if Telepathy stuff should be upgraded, please find out from the Ubuntu Mobile folks if such an exception exists again for Hardy.12:26
persiageser: Thanks.  I won't fuss about libini4j then.  Thanks.12:26
bigonScottK: oh ok12:27
bigonScottK: I don't see such exeption on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StandingFeatureFreeze12:30
* persia wishes that Sun had a single internal shared repository for Java code12:30
geserpersia: you're too late anyway, it got already build and is now in binary NEW.12:30
persiageser: Excellent!  With the archive-admin of the day seeking an empty NEW queue, we ought have netbeans by the end of the week.12:31
geserpersia: depending on the order of the NEWing (libini4j-java would be best), how long the netbeans build takes and the length of the binary NEW queue it could make it even today :)12:34
geserbut I guess the NEW queue is not long enough for that12:34
ScottKbigon: That's a page I made a few days ago.  The problem last time was the Ubuntu Mobile exception was undocumented.  You'll actually need to ask someone to find out.12:50
bigonScottK: I've asked on #u-mobile12:56
slytherinWhat is the use of 'debian uupdate' in watch file?12:59
\shbigon: then please ask what is the status of galculator and the hildon patch...they wanted to do the merge of this package by themselves, because the hildon patch doesn't apply cleanly anymore, and I have no clue about hildonizing12:59
persiaslytherin: It tells uscan that you want to copy the debian/ directory and attempt to automate the construction of a new source directory.  Personally, I find it less useful then one might prefer.13:00
slytherinpersia: thanks. I was just going to add it to a watch file13:00
persiaslytherin: Worth adding and experimenting.  If it works best for you, may be worth keeping.  Just because it doesn't match my workflow doesn't mean it isn't good practice.13:01
slytherinpersia: Nah. I am working on bluez-gnome which is in main. So I am just copying the watch file from debian13:02
slytherinpersia: By the way according to new policy when requesting new upstream version, I should just add .diff.gz to bug right?13:03
persiaslytherin: Yes.13:03
mruizhi all13:04
mruizhi all13:10
slytherinmruiz: That sound like an echo. :-)13:11
mruizslytherin, sure :)13:12
persiadfiloni_: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-changes/2008/02/msg01982.html13:14
* persia missed, and will try to aim better in the future13:14
mok0Whoops. Python exception when configuring update-manager...13:25
mok0Is there something wrong with pycentral at the moment??13:30
mok0I am getting several errors when doing my daily apt-get upgrade13:31
gesermok0: yes, python-central 0.5.50ubuntu4 should fix it13:31
mok0geser: ok, great, no reason to file bug reports then...13:31
Picimok0: already filed, see #192992 if you're interested13:32
mok0bug 19299213:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192992 in python-central "[hardy] pycentral crashed with ValueError in parse_versions()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19299213:32
=== Igorot_ is now known as Igorot
mok0Pici: Oh, yeah!13:33
mok0Pici: that's what I am getting too :-)13:34
persiaActually, ubuntu4 still breaks for jockey for some reason.  Works for most other things.13:34
mok0That new pycentral version is not in the archives?13:35
sorenmok0: If it's not, it soon will be.13:38
gesermok0: it got uploaded one hour ago (or so) and it takes some time to get build and published13:38
* mok0 cools it13:38
sorenpublished an hour ago.13:39
sorenThe source, that is.13:39
sorenhttp://launchpadlibrarian.net/12082695/python-central_0.5.50ubuntu4_all.deb <--- For the impatient.13:40
stgrabersoren: doesn't fix the bug with jockey-gtk13:40
stgraberso there will be one more upload (3rd or 4th today ? :))13:41
mruizthanks soren13:44
mok0Is there somewhere a statistic showing the use of the different platforms Ubuntu is offered on?13:46
awen-wrong window...13:50
mok0awen-: wrong language13:50
awen-mok0: also that :)13:50
awen-who should you poke to regarding openoffice.org-* packages... been looking a little at bug 192310 ; but the problems seems to involve more packages the more i look13:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192310 in hyphen "package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19231013:52
persiaawen-: Are you sure that is still open?  A recent set of upgrades seemed to resolve it for me.  Also, calc on #ubuntu-devel would be the right contact.13:56
_MMA_Fixed here as well.13:56
awen-_MMA_ and persia: the problem isn't solved ... openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us and openoffice.org-hyphenation both contains hyph_en_US.dic14:01
mok0Is hppa big endian like HP-UX?14:01
persiaawen-: Without Conflicts: ?  Yes, that would be wrong.14:01
* mok0 would like to see a compilation guide for hppa14:01
sorenmok0: hppa is the platform on which hp-ux runs.14:01
persiamok0: HP-US is designed to run on hppa, so it's at least a safe bet (although I haven't used such a machine for long enough to no longer be sure)14:02
awen-persia: yes, without conflicts...14:02
mok0soren: I meant hppa alias linux running on hppa :-)14:02
sorenmok0: Oh, ok. Yes, I'm quite sure that's big endian.14:03
awen-persia: and is isn't a good idea to have them conflict on each other as you would then be unable to have english hyphenation installed together with another hyphenation14:03
mok0soren: you happen to know what preprocessor symbols cpp predefines on that platform :-/14:03
persiaawen-: If two packages supply the same file, and they files serve different purposes, it is a bug to be raised to the appropriate list.  If the files serve the same purpose, the packages must use Conflicts:.  It may be that one of the packages should not deliver that file, or that some packages should be removed following a transition.14:05
sorenmok0: Not off the top of my head, no.14:06
sorenmok0: lamont in #ubuntu-devel will know, though. :)14:06
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
mok0soren: thx I'll ping him...14:06
awen-persia: exactly... but right now the openoffice.org-hyphenation packages seems in a complete mess regarding rdepends and provides14:07
persiamok0: You might also download and inspect the hppa binary packages...14:08
\shScottK: yes...the problem was my copy&paste of your LICENSE file ;) it said GPL2 and the LICENSE.gpl was GPL3 ... I fixed it already :)14:08
awen-but thanks for the help persia, i'll ping calc on #ubuntu-devel later today and see what he has to say about it14:09
persiaawen-: As an additional note, updates to those packages tend to be well staggered, to avoid DoSing the buildds.  It may be that there is a partial or complete fix in the VCS: at least worth checking that as well.14:10
awen-persia: okay... how/where to check the VCS?14:11
persiaCheck for Vcs-* fields in debian/control.  If they are absent, complain to the maintainer :)14:12
awen-persia: they are absent, so no luck there14:14
=== asac_ is now known as asac
rhpot1991_laptopHey guys, I got a few emails about the build of my package failing in NEW, I know what to fix but not how I go about doing so, do I just fix it and dput it back to revu?14:36
rhpot1991_laptophad the section listed as unknown when it should be misc14:37
sistpoty|workhi folks14:41
geserrhpot1991_laptop: create a debdiff, attach it to a bug in LP and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors14:41
geserHi sistpoty|work14:41
sistpoty|workhi geser14:41
DktrKranzsistpoty|work: I have to test dietlibc on sparc. It's not a big one, compile time takes five minutes on old hardware, is it possible to run some tests with pbuilder on sparky?14:44
rhpot1991_laptopgeser: attack it to a new bug or my needs-packaging bug?14:45
sistpoty|workDktrKranz: sure, there is a hardy pbuilder already installed on sparky14:46
geserrhpot1991_laptop: like you want14:46
DktrKranzsistpoty|work: ah, cool. I verified I've access on it, but I guess I've no root/sudo privileges14:47
sistpoty|workDktrKranz: I just changed it... can you retry?14:47
DktrKranzsistpoty|work: it works now, thanks. Is there a preferred time to do my tests? I don't want to increase server load too much.14:49
sistpoty|workDktrKranz: since we've already passed featurefreeze there shouldn't be much going on on revu anyways...14:50
sistpoty|workDktrKranz: so just do your tests ;)14:50
DktrKranzsistpoty|work: good then. Thanks ;)14:50
geserHi bddebian!14:52
bddebianHeya gang14:53
bddebianHi geser14:53
sistpoty|workhi bddebian14:53
bddebianHi sistpoty|work14:53
DktrKranzgeser: had a quick look at dietlibc, found something interesting from Fedora, but I think it's not sufficient to avoid --fno-stack-protector abuse :(14:53
spectieevening all, how do i go about getting an import from debian ?14:57
AstralJavaspectie: sync request is the process you want.15:00
AstralJavaCurrently we're in a feature freeze, so an exception bug will be required to be filed for that.15:00
spectiewhat is an exception bug ?15:00
AstralJavaIf you look at the topic, you can find more information regarding the issues.15:01
spectie(i'm just looking at the page now -- and about to file a bug)15:01
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
slicerWhere can I find documentation about debian/control fields like vcs-: etc? They're not in the current debian policy document.15:06
sistpoty|workslicer: iirc dpkg's changelog might help15:06
spectiesync request ubmitted15:10
=== juliank0 is now known as juliank
slicersistpoty|work: Ok, found that. But are they documented anywhere? All the changelog says is that such fields were added, it makes no mention of what's supposed to be in them :)15:10
AstralJavaspectie: Can you post the bug number please?15:11
spectiei'm just writing a comment giving the exception request15:11
sistpoty|workslicer: dunno if any documentation exists... I recall a lenghty thread on debian-devel some time in the past about that *looking*15:12
sistpoty|workslicer: http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2008/01/msg00926.html (but there was an older thread about these fields as well)15:14
spectieAstralJava, i've added the exception req.15:15
spectieis it in order?15:16
slicersistpoty|work: Thanks.15:17
AstralJavaAs we're in the feature freeze now, it requires a bit more information, which you can read from: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-30ede7e753a6b6f62916161755507d4cc5d99e2015:17
AstralJavaspectie: ^^15:18
* spectie looks15:18
spectiei don't have ubuntu15:18
AstralJavaRight, well then you need to get someone to do that for you.15:18
spectiepresumably diffstat would be just the contents of the debian package piped through diffstat ?15:19
AstralJavaPing me if you can't find anyone. I won't guarantee that I have the time for it, though. :)15:19
geserAstralJava: how do you want to diff a complete new package?15:21
AstralJavageser: Sorry I don't follow?15:22
spectiei attached the diff15:23
spectieAstralJava, regarding the "builds and installs", do you just need a buildlog ?15:24
AstralJavaspectie: The last time I did it, I directed pbuilder output to a buildlog. There might be other ways which I wouldn't know. I'm not a MOTU, after all. :)15:25
geserAstralJava: sorry, I was to fast with reading and jumped lines15:27
AstralJavageser: Quite alright. :)15:27
spectieAstralJava, does my diffstat look ok ?15:28
AstralJavaJust threw me out for a loop here.15:28
bigonScottK: <Mithrandir> bigon: I don't believe so, but it should be possible to grant exceptions if we need them?15:29
AstralJavaspectie: I suppose. If I was reviewing that, I would want to see what you used diffstat on.15:31
spectiei installed the package in a prefix15:31
spectieand diffed it with an empty directory15:31
spectieseeing as it is a new package, i think thats the only way you'll get a diff15:32
spectieoh pissing aerkgmarg15:33
AstralJavaspectie: As I understand it, the diffstat would show us how much the new package differs from the current version in Ubuntu. As it isn't in any ubuntu release at the moment, I would consider that step irrelevant.15:33
=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
spectieAstralJava, ok, that wasn't clear from the wiki15:33
AstralJavaI'm not sure what the process is when regarding to documentation "bugs", but please make sure appropriate people are informed about this.15:35
AstralJavaNever hurts to improve the relevant docs. :)15:35
DktrKranzsistpoty|work: are two ACKs sufficient to proceed with a FFe upload?15:38
sistpoty|workDktrKranz: the indication is, if the bug state is set to confirmed (atm. two acks should do it, however we don't have a policy for generic exceptions yet)15:39
DktrKranzthanks for the clarification.15:39
warp10Hi all!15:51
pochusistpoty|work: did you had time to check the revu patch?16:05
ScottKbigon: Please comment in the bug.16:06
ScottKsistpoty|work: I'm looking for feedback from you on the proposal for bug fix only uploads that I sent to MOTU ML last week.  The others in motu-release are OK with it.16:07
ScottK\sh: Great.  Sorry about that.16:07
sistpoty|workScottK: thought I have answered that already... full ack from me16:09
ScottKsistpoty|work: Thanks.  I probably just lost track.16:10
sistpoty|workpochu: sorry, didn't have time to test it on sparky yet... it looks good though16:10
pochusistpoty|work: just a reminder. no hurry though ;)16:11
dholbachUbuntu Development Week is up and running in #ubuntu-classroom!16:11
pochusistpoty|work: specially since there's no much activity in revu these days... ;)16:11
mario_limonciellsistpoty|work, would you be able to follow up to the mythtv suite FFe, now that ScottK has posted to it?  (You previously wanted to hear from others prior to deciding)16:12
sistpoty|workmario_limonciell: acked... can you confirm the bugs please (saves me lots of clicking *g*)?16:15
mario_limonciellsistpoty|work, sure16:15
geserScottK, sistpoty|work: how many ACKs does a FFe need? two or more?16:20
sistpoty|workgeser: two16:20
ScottKgeser: Two.  Our's crossed in the mail,  If you'd set it to confirmed it'd save me some clickety click.16:20
sistpoty|workheh, lost update :)16:21
geserScottK: will do, thanks16:21
ScottKBugfix only process is updated on the Freeze Exception page.16:21
sistpoty|workexcellent, thanks!16:21
geserScottK: what I can't do is unsubscribe motu-release16:22
ScottKgeser: If you do your upload it no longer shows up by default, so it's not a big deal.16:22
geserScottK: it's a sync and is now in the ~ubuntu-archive queue16:23
sistpoty|workgeser: then close the bug byhand, once it hits the archive (or I'll do it and will also get the karma for it *g*)16:24
=== x-spec-t is now known as Spec
ScottKgeser: There was an issue with Debian not having a gui for pg 8.3 because they don't have wxwidgets2.8.  I don't recall the package name, but it sounded like a good on to make sure we had the right version of.  I can hunt after it if you don't have time.16:25
gesersistpoty|work: the sync should close it (it's a sync request combined with a FFe)16:26
sistpoty|workdamn, no karma for me then *g*16:26
geserScottK: could it be pgadmin3? Please hunt it down as I don't have time (four exams next week)16:27
ScottKSure.  I'll look into it.16:27
pochuScottK: with your proposal, after alpha6, will we need to ask for a freeze exception even for bug fix releases?16:30
ScottKpochu: As of now, yes, but there is a MOTU meeting in the mean time to get consensus.16:31
ScottKpochu: I'm not personally uncomfortable with pushing it out to Beta, but think we should discuss it.16:31
ScottKsistpoty|work: I just added a NACK to the FF2 proposal.  I'm curious if you'd revisit your position based on my comment?16:32
* sistpoty|work looks16:32
ScottKsuperm1: Now that the mythtv standing FFe is approved, would you please update the wiki page where the standing exceptions are listed.16:33
mario_limonciellScottK, sure16:33
ScottKmario_limonciell: Which one of you are you really?16:34
mario_limonciellthis one at work, and the other at home right now16:34
mario_limonciellso, both i guess?16:34
ScottKI see. OK.16:34
sistpoty|workasac: the point of ScottK is imo quite good about the firefox2 demotion... any good ideas?16:36
ScottKsistpoty|work: My thought is use iceweasel instead (if that's the right one, I can never keep track).16:37
ScottKIf it's really needed.16:37
ScottKgeser: pgamin3 is in fact what it was.16:39
ScottKpgadmin3 even16:39
ScottKIs there a MOTU hopeful looking for a useful task/learning experience?16:39
slytherinScottK: I owuld have said yes but I will be leaving for home in 5-10 minutes. :-)16:41
jdong*sigh* How the heck does one get across the point that launchpad is not where to discuss dirty hacks and workarounds right on a bug report?16:41
jdongI think LP bug tickets need moderation ability16:41
ScottKjdong: What is the place then?16:41
jdongScottK: some other support medium16:41
jdongIRC, mailing list, forum, answers tracker, etc16:42
rhpot1991_laptopanyone have any idea why my diff.gz is different on LP than on revu?16:42
dholbachjdong: if it's still about fixing the bug that should be absolutely fine - there are lots of discussions about fix implementations in various bug trackers16:42
jdongScottK: as an example, the pycentral breakage bug, 90% of the comments are either irrelevant or duplicate of osmething another person has said already16:42
ScottKjdong: True, but to the extent it helps the developer understand the problem, it may be useful.16:42
jdongScottK: right, useful discussion is a different concern, but there should be a way to collapse/hide duplicate or otherwise not useful comments16:43
dholbachjdong: right, we do have a big amount of not so useful information on bugs - I agree with that16:43
jdongi.e. confirmed by 4 people, another 3 or 4 people posted a 1-page-long traceback (identical to each other)16:43
ScottKjdong: Yes, but that happens every time we break the release.  If anything, my lesson learned on that experience is maybe LP duplicate detection needs a bug filed against it.16:43
ScottKI think that's the real answer.16:44
jdong"My workaround is to install the python-apt_0.7.4ubuntu4_i386.deb package from here: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/python-apt/0.7.4ubuntu4"16:44
dholbachthat doesn't stop "me too" comments :)16:44
jdongcomments like that, IMO, are irrelevant to the bug report16:44
jdongi.e. they're end-user workarounds, not useful to developers for pinpointing or fixing bugs16:44
ScottKjdong: But they are useful for someone who's just been told their problem is a dupe of that bug.16:44
dholbachI'm not sure I'd spend my time "digging" comments on bugs :)16:45
jdongScottK: no doubt they are useful for the end user using a bug report to find a solution to the problem, but they are not helpful for me if I just want a quick look at "what's the problem, what's the progress on a fix"16:45
jdongdholbach: haha that image came into my head too16:45
jdongdholbach: then again all the workaround will be dugg up ;-)16:45
dholbachright :)16:45
ScottKAgreed, but if the duplicate detection worked well, users would see that and just do it and the volume of comments would go down.16:45
jdongScottK: I think on that bug, there's about 3 useful comments overall (1) the stacktrace (2) comment 86 which explains the cause and a proposed (admittedly hackish) workaround16:46
dholbachthe last times I was about to file a crash report it told me about duplicates quite well and I followed up on already filed bugs16:46
* dholbach liked that16:46
pochujdong: I think this is exactly what you want - bug 173416:46
jdongand I can't even think of the 3rd useful comment16:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1734 in malone "Need ability to mark bug comments as obsolete" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/173416:46
dholbachpochu: thanks for digging that up16:47
jdongpochu: indeed that's very close to what I would like16:47
jdongcollapsible comments would be great16:47
pochudholbach: anytime. I already knew about it, so it wasn't hard to find it ;)16:48
pochuI even thought I was subscribed to it...16:48
jeromegjdong: i just got some writable cds and i'm testing the backport of brasero at the moment17:17
=== hexmode` is now known as hexmode
=== LifeHacker is now known as tuxmaniac
jdongjeromeg: I pretty much trust that it works, the patch looks very reasonable17:27
jdongjeromeg: you should talk to ScottK about sponsoring it into gutsy-backports17:27
jdong(consider it an ACK from me)17:27
jeromegjdong: ok, that way I don't loose a cd for nothing :)17:28
jeromegScottK: hello; now I need to bother you :)17:28
ScottKjeromeg: Put you debdiff in the bug and subscribe me to it.  I'll try and give it a look a bit later.17:29
jeromegScottK: ok thank you, the debdiff is already on the bug report, I also added a link to build logs from my ppa, if that can be of any use for you17:30
jeromegi'll suscribe you17:30
InsClusoejussi01: Thanks for that..17:31
InsClusoeoops... wrong chat room.. sorry.17:31
jussi01InsClusoe: you are welcome17:31
jeromegScottK: i put Ubuntu Backporters as maintainer, there doesn't seem to be any documentation about sourcecahnge backports17:31
ScottKjdong: ^^^ What do you think about that?17:31
\shI would say ubuntu-motu (for universe packages) to be sure we get the bug reports even by mail17:32
jeromegScottK= Scott Kitterman ? (just to be sure to susribe the right person17:32
\sh(also for backports)17:32
jeromeg\sh: the package is in amin :)17:32
\shjeromeg: so ubuntu core :)17:32
jeromeg\sh: ok, i'll update my debdiff17:33
ScottKjeromeg: Yes17:33
jeromegScottK: thx !17:33
\shjeromeg: that's the way I would prefer it :) I don't know the opinion of other devs in here17:33
jeromegok, i'll wait for more feedback, that's not essential anyway :)17:34
asacsistpoty|work: yes, commented on bug. I agree that the security argument is something that needs to be figured, however its completely independent from feature freeze exceptions and should be discussed/enforced through other means.17:34
\shScottK: you opinion to this? :)17:34
sistpoty|workasac: well, for xulrunner, we could get security fixes from debian (but I guess not in practice, because it seems that we're ahead of unstable, right?)17:35
ScottK\sh: Debian Maintainer spec allows any ubuntu.com address.  Few core-devs will care about a backport, so I think it makes sense, but we are breaking new groud here.  That's why I asked jdong.  It's his project.17:35
nareshovHey MOTUs. I found a bug in the package "midori": It's default homepage is set to www.debian.org , Shouldn't it be www.ubuntu.com ?17:35
asacsistpoty|work: xulrunner 1.8 will die at the same point as firefox 2.0 ... in debian i am the one that does all the security work17:36
jdongScottK: I think putting backporters as the maintainer makes the most sense...17:36
asacsistpoty|work: so if we have some kind of universe security team, they can work together with me17:36
ScottKasac: We do have such a team, but we're already overwhelemed.  We just don't have resources for this.17:36
asacScottK: yes, but that is a completely different question.17:37
jdongScottK: I don't think giving the bug reports to -motu directly makes much sense as (1) 90% of motu's really don't care (2) if they did care, they still can't really directly do much other than finding a backporter or core-dev17:37
jdongso the logical ones are either (1) backporter (2)core-dev, of which #1 makes most sense17:37
ScottKjdong: Next question is who reads those mails?17:38
jdongScottK: well I'm subscribed to the list and some of the testers are.... I'm not sure who else does.17:39
sistpoty|workasac: I'm not too sure, if that's so much a different question... what would be the main gain, from having ff2 still in universe? I guess upstream (as in mozilla) won't support this either, right? so my question would be who would take care for it?17:39
sistpoty|workasac: I don't mind having it in there, if e.g. the mozilla team would step up and promise commitment for the package17:40
* ScottK too.17:42
asacsistpoty|work: i outlined the main gain in the bug17:42
asacpeople will install crap otherwise and bust their install. i want to take away the reason to do that17:43
asacthat said. i am mainly interested in providing them a firefox 2 package as long as upstream supports it17:44
asaci am working on keeping old branches alive upstream with other distributors. but i cannot make guarantees17:44
asac(like what we do for 1.8.0 branch atm)17:44
spectiesistpoty|work, thanks for ack'ing apertium-dbus, please let me know if you have any questions/suggestions17:45
ScottKasac: Why not leave it in Main.  One other security related disadvantage of Universe is security fixes aren't announced?17:45
spectiei'm just about to leave work, but i should be idling from home17:45
asacScottK: because we cannot take guarantees17:45
asacjust "best effort"17:45
ScottKasac: What will you do with Dapper when that branch can't be supported any more?17:46
asacScottK: we support that branch and i am currently working with redhat and other distributors to get it semi-officially supported upstream again.17:48
asacwe wil most likely do the same for 1.8, but it will be harder to give guarantees, because backporting from 1.9 branch to 1.8 branch is far more difficult than backporting from 1.8 to 1.8.0 branch obviously17:49
asacScottK: pragmatically, we could adapt the same policy for universe that upstream mozilla have. once ffox 2 reaches EOL (and given that we cannot support it anymore), we could migrate users to ffox 3.17:50
asacuntil then i definitly can provide security updates for ffox 2 in universe17:51
asacScottK: until we reach EOL we can also include the firefox-2 package in the security announcements we send out for main. (would have to check that with security teaam of course)17:53
sistpoty|workasac: what rough timeframe do you think EOL would be (before release close after release or late after release)?17:54
asacEOL: ~1 year after ffox 3 is final17:55
sistpoty|workwell, this sounds ok for me... ScottK, what do you think?17:56
ScottKsistpoty|work: I'd like some advance agreement from the archive-admins that they'll be OK to do a removal in ~ 1 year from Hardy, but sounds good.18:01
sistpoty|workScottK: afaik removing packages from a released suite is s.th. which generally won't happen (unless a major disaster is happening)18:04
ScottKsistpoty|work: Agreed.  That's why I want it all sorted out on the front end.18:04
ScottKIf it's no longer supported, it should be removed.18:05
sistpoty|workScottK: sure, and thanks for catching my thoughtlessness ;)18:06
affluxshould a browser that has been synced from debian (midori 0.0.17-1) be changed to not default to debian.org as the homepage?18:06
asacsistpoty|work: ScottK: if we migrate users to ffox 3 it would be an update to ffox 3 that takes over... removing something from the archive won't be necessary18:07
=== never|mobi is now known as neversfelde|mobi
ScottKasac: That works.18:07
sistpoty|workasac: ah, nice18:07
asacok, i will document that procedure in the bug and check with the platform team.18:08
sistpoty|workthanks asac18:08
james_wHi all. Is a sync for the upload in debbugs 466101 a candidate for a FFE?18:13
james_wIt is a superset of the current diff between Ubuntu and Debian, and the extras sound useful.18:14
RainCTdebian bug 46610118:14
ubotuDebian bug 466101 in beagle "beagle: should declare a relationship with schedutils/util-linux" [Normal,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/46610118:14
juliankIf you look at the ndisgtk package page, you see '0.8.1-2ubuntu1 [amd64,i386], 0.6-0ubuntu3 [all]' - shouldn't 0.6-0ubuntu3 be deleted? [0.8.1 only produces amd64,i386 packages]18:14
james_wThe only differences that may be bad is a Recommends rather than suggests for schedutils, updated versions of build-depends, and updated debhelper compat.18:15
RainCTjames_w: I think you only need exceptions for new versions (and new packages), not new Debian revisions (that still have the same upstream version)18:15
RainCTjames_w: and ScottK just announced that neither do bug fix only releases18:15
james_wah, my misunderstanding. Thanks.18:16
james_wah, and I completely forgot the iceweasel/firefox changes, so it's not a sync at all.18:17
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
InsClusoeHi all.. I see a lot of bugs tagged needs-packaging. Some are requests for certain Firefox-extensions. Is there a plan to roll out Firefox in ubuntu with pre-packaged extensions?18:24
RainCTInsClusoe: there are already some extensions packaged.18:25
RainCTInsClusoe: but it's Feature Freeze now, so you shouldn't really be looking at needs-packaging bugs ;)18:25
InsClusoeSince Gutsy? Yeah.. Sorry..18:26
* InsClusoe smiles sheepishly.18:26
* sistpoty|work heads home now... cya18:27
InsClusoeI had to install all my extensions manually in Feisty.. and yes, I am still on Feisty.18:28
slicerHi. I need some tips :) mumble-server includes two cgi scripts. These scripts depend on various perl packages, which means mumble-server pulls in a whole bunch of packages. Additionally, it does depend on apache2|httpd and mail-transport-agent, though I forgot to add those to the Depends: currently uploaded :(18:34
slicerI've been considering moving the two scripts into a separate package, called mumble-server-web (unless someone has a better name?). This would let users install mumble-server without all the dependencies if they don't plan on using the web scripts.18:35
slicerDoes this sound sane?18:35
awen_is it okay when making a .desktop-file to link it to an icon, that is contained in another package, that this package depends on? (this Q should be more clear)18:48
ScottKslicer: Depending on how useful mumble-server is without these scripts, yes assuming you mean a 2nd binary package from the same source package and not an entirely split package.18:49
slicerScottK: It's entirely usefull without them, and many users never bother to use them at all. Yes, I'm talking about a 2nd (Actually, 3rd) binary package from the same source package.18:50
ScottKslicer: Then I'd say yes, it's sane.18:51
emgentheya people18:52
ssami am trying to do FreezeExceptionProcess but i can't get pbuild to save a logfile. the --logfile log.txt option seems to do nothing.19:07
ssamcan i just redirect the output into a file?19:08
RainCTssam: yes19:11
ssamRainCT, thanks19:11
pochussam: maybe you were doing it wrong. it needs to be exactly "pbuilder build --logfile /path/to/logfile /path/to/dsc19:20
pochussam: perhaps you put --logfile before build or after the dsc?19:21
ssami tried a few variations.19:21
ssambut not the right one :-)19:21
mok0what does "apport-bug" mean?19:27
=== TheMuso_ is now known as TheMuso
mok0never mind19:30
awen_can you store binary files in the debian/ directory?19:38
mok0awen_: it's better to uuencode them19:39
awen_mok0: any documentation describing this process?19:40
mok0awen_: man uuencode :-)19:40
awen_mok0: so you just uudecode the file in debian/rules?19:41
mok0awen_: yes, and when it needs to be installed, just uudecode it.19:41
awen_mok0: okay... thanks19:42
mok0awen_: gives a nice clean diff.gz19:42
mok0awen_: I did this to some icons19:42
awen_mok0: yes... exactly my problem; it complained when trying to build19:42
mok0awen_: look at the xtide package to see how I did it19:43
awen_mok0: i'll dig into xtide19:43
mok0awen_: I put the icons in their place in the tree ./usr/share .... etc tarred that tree, and uuencoded it. Then it is just to unpack it in the package build dir19:44
awen_mok0: sounds like a good solution19:44
mok0awen_: yeah19:44
Laibschwho can I bug about a nifty little program which nice packaging straight from the upstream source?19:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145007 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging] anki" [Wishlist,Confirmed]19:48
mok0What kind of authorization do you need to be able to set the "importance" field on LP?19:50
pochumok0: be a member of ubuntu-bugcontrol19:51
pochumok0: motu is a member of it, btw19:51
* mok0 is not a motu19:51
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
emgentdebian #45912919:58
ubotuDebian bug 459129 in libcdio "libcdio: CVE-2007-6613 stack-based buffer overflow in print_iso9660_recurse function" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/45912919:58
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
HighNo/join Test20:17
HighNoDoh, sorry new irc client.20:18
selckin5€ fine20:19
HighNoi wasn't even aware i am on the channel. it is so quiet here today. or is this client not getting every line?20:22
HighNohm, since i don't see a single line since my last post i guess this client is broken20:25
RainCTHighNo: it's not you20:25
nareshovHighNo: I see you20:25
HighNothis one runs on the iPhone... it looks sweet.20:26
=== cprov is now known as cprov-out
mok0HighNo: how do you type?20:27
HighNosoft keyboard works well enough20:28
mok0HighNo: 1 finger?20:28
HighNomostly yes but two is possible too20:29
james_wbddebian: loving your -qa work at the moment.20:30
bddebianIs that sarcasm or serious? :)20:31
james_wbddebian: definitely serious.20:33
bddebianAh, well thanks then. :-)20:34
awen_what is lintian trying to tell me? - "debian-rules-ignores-make-clean-error line 53"20:36
geserawen_: try calling lintian with -i to get a more verbose message20:37
awen_geser: ahh... thanks :)20:38
mok0awen_: you have -rm in the clean rule20:38
mok0awen_: use rm -f instead20:38
gesermok0: more like he has "-make clean" in debian/rules20:38
mok0geser: yeah could be20:39
* awen_ can confirm that geser is the winner20:39
Ubuletteis there a bug for http://paste.ubuntu.com/4774/ ?20:41
geserUbulette: I could find one on a quick search20:44
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChild
Ubulettereally ? i couldn't20:44
Ubulettegeser, id?20:45
geserUbulette: argh, there is a 'not' missing in my sentence20:45
Ubuletteoh, ok20:46
=== ogra_cmpc_ is now known as ogra_cmpc
InsClusoedholbach: I was looking at 120064 listed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO under packaging tasks.21:00
dholbachInsClusoe: great - let me know how that goes21:01
* dholbach needs to leave now21:01
dholbachbye guys21:01
InsClusoeThanks. Will let you know.21:01
dholbachrock on21:02
james_wInsClusoe: feel free to ask in here if you have any questions about it.21:03
InsClusoeThe bugs says ghc-pkg has no manpage...21:03
InsClusoeDoes that mean it was missed out during packaging or was never written in the first place?21:04
geserbug #12006421:04
ubotuLaunchpad bug 120064 in ghc6 "no manpage for ghc-pkg" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12006421:04
InsClusoegeser: Yes21:05
geserInsClusoe: could be both, look inside the .orig.tar.gz if there is one or not21:05
=== PriceChild is now known as Pricey
InsCluso1Geser: Sorry, I got disconnected in between...21:21
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
geserInsCluso1: you didn't miss anything, the last line I got was: [22:06:06]    InsClusoe | ok..21:30
InsCluso1geser: Great.... So I downloaded the source now.21:31
InsCluso1and I see that there is no man directory... I guess this means that the manpages are not packaged.21:33
InsCluso1It has only html docs21:34
LaneyIs there any purpose for this in a postrm script? Doesn't debhelper take care of removing the directories? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56668/21:34
geserLaney: dpkg removes only the dirs and files it created (are included in the deb) and dirs get only removed when they are empty21:36
geserdpkg doesn't know anything about the mrtg log files or any files mrtg generates during its use21:36
Laneygeser: Right, that's the bug that I'm looking at atm21:37
LaneyThat the directories are always removed21:37
LaneyWhat's the general policy on this kind of thing?21:37
* RainCT doesn't know what you are speaking about but guesses that if they are residual logs they should be removed when purging21:39
InsCluso1I guess I have to ask the upstream author to give the man pages...21:39
geserLaney: you need to check the Debian policy21:39
LaneyRainCT: Yes, I can understand for logs, but for the generated reports (which is what this bug is about...)21:39
RainCTLaney: bug number?21:40
geserInsCluso1: I see the debs has some manpages. But I didn't check where they come from and if there're complete.21:40
Laneybug #16242621:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 162426 in mrtg "Purging MRTG removes data from /var/www/mrtg" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/16242621:41
LaneyRainCT: ^21:41
NafalloLaney: what does purge mean then?21:41
LaneyI imagine it to mean to get rid of the binaries and configuration files, and maybe logs21:42
geserInsCluso1: you can write the missing manpage on your own if you want (e.g. based on some --help output or other documentation) and provide the manpage upstream21:42
NafalloLaney: get rid of everything :-)21:42
Laneyie that which would be useless without the package installed21:42
NafalloLaney: if you don't want to purge it... don't use --purge21:43
InsCluso1geser: ok.. Where did you say you found some manpages for this?21:44
geserInsCluso1: I looked in the package contents of ghc6 on packages.ubuntu.com21:44
RainCTLaney: sorry, no clue21:48
InsCluso1geser: There's a separate package called ghc6-doc. Can we use this?21:49
geserInsCluso1: manpages should usually be in the same package as the binaries21:53
geserInsCluso1: if upstream doesn't provide a manpage for this command then someone needs to write it first21:53
InsCluso1geser: oh.. for that I need to know what the package does and all that.. Only the developer can write the manpage.21:55
InsCluso1How silly of me to think that I could do it!21:56
LaneyNafallo: All I can find in the debian policy is that --purge should be remove + conffiles + logfiles21:57
* InsCluso1 thanks geser for helping out.21:58
InsCluso1Got to leave now. Bye.21:59
slicerI have a somewhat complex question about licenses and debian/copyright. Would this be a good place to ask?21:59
NafalloLaney: well, I'm not read up on that, but I've always considered it as 'make clean' ;-)21:59
NafalloLaney: like... remove every trace of a package ever being installed :-P21:59
LaneyHmm, I could see that being troublesome - for example if you remove apache and it deletes /var/www22:00
Nafallomrtg would have /var/www/mrtg in there, so apache shouldn't delete it.22:01
LaneyQuite, but it would if it had the same kind of postrm script that mrtg has now22:01
LaneyAnyway I'm talking more generally - if I have apache installed and create some website in /var/www, then at some later date decide to purge apache, I should be able to expect that my website isn't removed by this.22:03
geserslicer: try your luck here, or try to reach an archive admin during his working hours22:03
slicergeser: Rgr :)22:03
slicerMy package (mumble) links with OpenSSL, and the package is released under GPL. As I understand it, I'll need to add an exception to the GPL to allow this. However, it's only the binary packages that are GPL, the actual source code for Mumble is BSD-licensed. Hence, the current exception (as found on http://www.gnome.org/~markmc/openssl-and-the-gpl.html) does not make sense as it refers to "conditions described in each individual source file".22:06
slicerThis makes me wonder what exactly I'm supposed to put in there.22:06
RAOFslicer: If the code is BSD licensed, why are the binaries GPL'd?22:07
geserslicer: how can the binary packages be GPL when the source is BSD?22:07
slicerBecause we link to GPL'd libraries (specifically: Qt) and because there's a patent involved which allows us to distribute binaries under the GPL.22:08
* RainCT notices that he has 537 binaries without manpage installed :P22:10
geserslicer: I'm not sure but I don't believe that linking changes a license22:11
* geser hates licensing questions especially when linking is involved22:12
RAOFI was under the impression that GPL code could link to BSD, because BSD is a more permissive license, but not the other way round.  This may be an unfounded impression.22:12
slicerWell, a while back I got an email from Trolltech's legal council who quite specifically asked me to make sure that the source license was BSD (revised) (which it was), and that any *binaries* which included the actual libraries be GPL. This caused the Win32 binary releases to be GPL, which was subsequently also copied to the Linux version.22:16
slicerWhat is more important though is that Mumble implements OCB-AES, an encryption-authentication scheme that is patented in the U.S. There's a patent grant for GPL, but not for BSD, meaning any binaries distributed to the US has to be GPL.22:17
slicer.. Either that or someone has to pay for licensing.22:17
RAOFAh, I think I can see how this works (speculation follows).  You can't link BSD to GPL and get a BSD licensed binary - it's a derivative work of some GPL'd code, and so should be GPL'd.  This is OK, because the BSD license is permissive enough.22:20
RAOFNow, as for your actual _question_.  I'm totally unsure.22:20
RAOFSomeone with a better grasp of copyright is welcome to jump in and correct me here :)22:21
geserslicer: my guess would be that if upstream states that linking with openssl is ok then that should also cover the GPL'd binaries22:21
slicergeser: I am the upstream. Question is how to word this legally :)22:22
geserslicer: have you checked how the other packages which are GPL'd and link with OpenSSL have worded it?22:23
slicergeser: Yes, there the source code is GPL, and they've added an exception to the files that use OpenSSL methods.22:23
geserCan't you add the same statement to your source files?22:24
slicergeser: Thing is, my source is BSD, meaning it's already permissive enough to link to OpenSSL. But.. When compiled, the binaries are GPL due to linking and patenting issues.22:24
slicerWhich is why I'm *very* confused.22:25
RAOFYes :)22:25
RAOFThe world would be a simpler place if everything was GPL'd :)22:26
Amaranthno no, LGPL'ed :)22:26
slicerRAOF: Er. Well.. I actually want my source to be BSD. I want people to be able to use it in commercial products. In fact, I hope they do, so their code quality increases.22:26
geserRAOF: which GPL version? :)22:27
RAOFgeser: n-or-later, I think :P22:27
RAOFslicer: Oh, I am aware that there are good reasons for wanting !GPL.22:27
geserslicer: do you want to get this package also into Debian?22:28
slicergeser: It's not a priority right now, no. I plan to look into that after Hardy is out the door.22:29
geserslicer: :( else I would suggest to ask the debian-legal people :)22:29
hellboy195gn8 @all :)22:30
slicerI wonder .. if I pick the two patent-covered functions out (whose binaries can only be GPL), license the source to those under GPL with OpenSSL exception... I should be OK?22:30
slicerOr will that automatically make all my source GPL... *Sigh* I need someone who speaks legalese.22:31
gesertry the debian-legal ML22:32
kikosiretart, ping?22:42
crevettejono: around ?22:42
jonocrevette: yep22:42
crevetteI'm the guy who did your hackergotchis few weeks ago22:43
crevettecould you ask jdub to push it to pgo, because he won't if you request it yourself22:43
tsmitheScottK, so you think having fluid in is a no go? (i have been working very hard to negotiate the relicensing on the hope that i'd get the exception)22:44
jonocrevette: will do - will mail him now22:44
crevettejono: thanks22:44
crevetteI'l ping him in 15 minutes then :)22:45
ScottKtsmithe: What's the advantage to the distro over having a backport that's available several weeks after release?22:47
ScottKtsmithe: It wasn't meant to be a no way, but looking for an alternative.  The archive admins need to move on to other work.22:47
tsmithe(a) not everybody enables backports; (b) i can't recommend a package in backports for a package in universe22:48
tsmithei'd very much like to have fluid in universe, and have timidity recommend it, such that when both are installed in tandem, midi synthesis will Just Work22:48
tsmitheit's quite doable, with minimally invasive work22:48
ScottKYou can, however, suggest it.22:48
ScottKtsmithe: What does Ubuntu Studio think about this package?  If it's wanted specifically by a derivative in this release, I'd be more inclined to consider it.22:50
ScottKIt sounds like something they would want.22:50
tsmitheubuntu studio is very keen. mscore, for instance, has had to have been patched to be in line with dfsg, removing its default soundfont22:50
ScottKSo give me a reason beyond Toby thinks it would be cool.22:50
tsmithethis means that a program for composing is pretty much useless for someone without perfect pitch22:51
kikosiretart, https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/boxbackup/trunk is working again.22:51
tsmithehaving fluid in would mean that a user could just open it up, enter notes on whatever instrument, and hear them ring out22:51
ScottKSo have Ubuntu Studio comment on the bug how it would help them and then maybe.22:51
crimsun_it's not just Ubuntu Studio.  various users have requested working MIDI OOTB since Dapper.22:52
ScottKFor significant new package, I think we should be asking slangasek at this point anyway, so give me a case I can make (in the bug).22:52
ScottKcrimsun_: OK.  Would you please comment in the bug?22:52
crimsun_so - while not having it would not be a regression per se, having it certainly will contribute to a better user experience22:52
tsmitheScottK, thank you. i'm also working on having Debian Multimedia Team include it in unstable22:53
ScottKtsmithe: Good.22:53
crimsun_I can, but it will be better for Toby to dig up the appropriate alsa-* bug regarding having working MIDI OOTB and simply reference that bug.22:53
crimsun_(the appropriate alsa-utils or alsa-driver bug on LP)22:53
ScottKcrimsun_: Yes, but your comment coming from you given your history with the project is also meaningful22:53
tsmithecrimsun_, i do reference a but, but it's in timidity: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/16372722:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 163727 in timidity "soundfont does not seem to get automatically installed" [Low,Triaged]22:53
tsmithe*a bug22:54
ScottKSo tsmithe: Sell me so I can sell it.22:54
* ScottK needs to run. I'll be reading your bug mail ...22:55
RainCTgood night22:55
tsmitheScottK, :)22:55
=== flare is now known as Flare183

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