[00:02] <jjesse> anyone else having problems w/ sound returning after resuming from suspend on kde4 and gutsy?
[00:03] <jjesse> to suspend i'm using the command sudo /etc/acpi/suspend.sh
[00:05] <coreymon77> jjesse: ive been having sound problems for a long time now
[00:05] <coreymon77> jjesse: i gave up
[00:07] <jjesse> coreymon77: hrmm i'm having problems as well
[00:08] <jjesse> i did figure out my hardy upgrade on my ubuntu box though so i feel somewhat successfull
[00:09] <coreymon77> jjesse: its wasnt hardy for me
[00:10] <jjesse> yeah sounds stinks for me on all builds :(
[00:11] <coreymon77> jjesse: whats the ubotu command to search the apt repos?
[00:11] <oloughlin75> coreymon77: !find package
[00:12] <coreymon77> as in !find amsn or !find package amsn
[00:12] <oloughlin75> !find amsn
[00:12] <ubotu> Found: amsn
[00:20] <jjesse> glad i could help :)
[00:22] <jjesse> !find jockey
[00:22] <jjesse> !info jockey
[00:22] <ubotu> Package/file jockey does not exist in gutsy
[00:22] <ubotu> Package jockey does not exist in gutsy
[00:22] <oloughlin75> jjesse: Do you know of a small open source project to help me learn either c or python with? I am familiar with java, but would like to learn one of those languages, and maybe contribute actual code. :)
[00:22] <jjesse> !info jockey hardy
[00:22] <ubotu> Package jockey does not exist in hardy
[00:23] <jjesse> kubuntu is a great place to learn python :)
[00:23] <jjesse> we use a lot of it :)
[00:23] <jjesse> !info jockey-kde
[00:23] <jjesse> !info jockey-kde hardy
[00:23] <ubotu> Package jockey-kde does not exist in gutsy
[00:23] <ubotu> jockey-kde (source: jockey): KDE user interface and desktop integration for driver management. In component main, is optional. Version 0.2-0ubuntu5 (hardy), package size 6 kB, installed size 96 kB
[00:24] <jjesse> oloughlin75: i'm probablly not the best person to help you out
[00:24] <jjesse> as i do documenatation and mostly make a pest of myself to the real developers :)
[00:24] <oloughlin75> lol, alright
[00:25] <jjesse> nixternal: can you help oloughlin75 out?
[00:26] <jjesse> afk eating dinner
[00:26] <oloughlin75> :)
[00:41] <cheguevara> any php coders here
[00:43] <oloughlin75> jjesse: :)
[00:44]  * ryanakca has officially decided that he hates  rounded cornners
[00:45] <oloughlin75> ryanakca: dont look pretty enough for you?
[00:50] <ryanakca> oloughlin75: nah, they're just a pita to implement
[00:51] <ryanakca> mibbit?
[00:51] <nixternal_> http://www.andlinux.org/index.php  <- that is pretty kick arse
[00:51] <nixternal_> ya, I am at skewl
[00:51] <nixternal_> this one classroom blocks all of our ports
[00:51] <oloughlin75> nixternal_: jjesse said to ask you so.....
[00:51] <ryanakca> ouch
[00:51] <nixternal_> said to ask me what?
[00:51] <oloughlin75> Do you know of a small open source project to help me learn either c or python with? I am familiar with java, but would like to learn one of those languages, and maybe contribute actual code. :)
[00:51] <oloughlin75> had to find it lol
[00:52] <nixternal_> you are like me, good with java :)
[00:52] <nixternal_> umm, I just make stuff up, I learned C++ in school, but I am learning Python now
[00:52] <nixternal_> there are plenty of projects, but there are a couple of hands-on electronic books for python which are good
[00:53] <Riddell> nixternal_: does that really work?
[00:53] <oloughlin75> im not great at learning programming through books, so i am looking for a small project to read through
[00:54] <oloughlin75> but i guess now that i am familiar with java ill understand a book a lot better
[00:54] <ryanakca> oloughlin75: do you care if it has a frontend (ex: pykde, pyqt, pygtk, etc?)
[00:54] <uga> oloughlin75: it's best to create your own project for that
[00:54] <oloughlin75> (havent tried lear)arning from a book in over a ye
[00:54] <uga> oloughlin75: why not just create a (simple) application that you really need
[00:54] <oloughlin75> uga: a the moment i dont need anything :/
[00:55] <uga> weird, everyone says "oh, if I had that app in linux..."
[00:55] <uga> that's how I wrote my first proggie ;)
[00:55] <nosrednaekim> oloughlin75 » go check out my compiz configuration program and take a look at how it works.
[00:55] <oloughlin75> where?
[00:55] <nosrednaekim> its fairly simple, and I can explan how it works.
[00:56] <ryanakca> oloughlin75: look through http://www.spoj.pl/ for small exercises
[00:56] <nosrednaekim> where are the tutorial day logs?
[00:56] <oloughlin75> ryanakca: ill look at that site, many thanks
[00:56] <ryanakca> methinks they're still in the #kubuntu topic
[00:57] <ryanakca> Tutorials Day logs at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/KTD
[00:57] <oloughlin75> Scared by C++? Quite right too. Learn how to code graphical apps in an hour with PyKDE 4.
[00:57] <oloughlin75> looks good, lmao
[00:57] <nosrednaekim> ryanakca » lol, I never read that :)
[01:01] <Riddell> oloughlin75: code a graphical editor for /etc/sudoers
[01:01] <Riddell> or, add a proxy question to ubiquity (copying the gtk frontend)
[01:01] <oloughlin75> whats /etc/sudoers?
[01:02] <Riddell> config file for sudo
[01:02] <oloughlin75> (been on linux llike a week)
[01:03] <Riddell> oloughlin75: ok, here's a better one, learn pykde then write tutorials for it on techbase.kde.org
[01:05] <oloughlin75> ahh, ill mis writing out GUIs ;(
[01:05] <oloughlin75> by hand
[01:05] <nosrednaekim> you can if you want :)
[01:06] <nixternal_> https://downloads.channel8.msdn.com/Products.aspx   <- for all of you aspiring windows developers
[01:06] <oloughlin75> free visual studio for students?
[01:06] <nixternal_> and then some :)
[01:06] <nosrednaekim> bleh.
[01:07] <oloughlin75> nixternal_: got to be a member to download ;)
[01:07] <nosrednaekim> i'l pass... i'd have to install windows :)
[01:07] <nixternal_> Riddell: does what work? learning from the hands on e-books?
[01:07] <nixternal_> I have learned a little bit from it..but actually I have learned more from the PyQt4 book and just trying stuff out on my own...only problem, I can't think of any itches to scratch for writing some code
[01:07] <ScottK> nixternal_: You may be the only aspiring Windows developer here.
[01:08] <nixternal_> :p
[01:08] <nosrednaekim> !nixternal
[01:08] <ubotu> Oh no!  The pointy-clicky Vista lover has arrived!  He's rumoured to be giving out free money, too!
[01:08] <nixternal_> I am probably the only Windows developer here, or ex-Microsoft employee
[01:08] <Riddell> nixternal_: want to add proxy setup to ubiquity?
[01:08] <oloughlin75> nixternal_: your an ex employee?
[01:09] <nixternal_> Riddell: I can look at it and see if I can work something up...as long as I have an idea of what is supposed to happen of course, and maybe a bit of hand-holding :)
[01:09] <ryanakca> Riddell: for /etc/sudoers, don't we (Ubuntu) just add users to the "admin" group?
[01:09] <nixternal_> oloughlin75: yes I am an ex-emp
[01:09] <oloughlin75> nixternal_: how is it working over there?
[01:09] <ScottK> nixternal_: Here's an idea for you ...  How about an add-on for Kmail to make it pointy click to create your GPG key, add it so your sending acount and upload it to a key server.  IIRC there's still CLI needed for some steps in that.
[01:09] <nixternal_> sucks
[01:09] <nixternal_> scottk: KGPG
[01:09] <oloughlin75> lol, just making sure :)
[01:09] <nixternal_> done
[01:09] <ryanakca> Riddell: btw, I'm interested in the visuder/keditsudoers/etc task... might take me quite a while though :)
[01:10] <Riddell> ryanakca: there's many more options for finer grained control
[01:10] <Riddell> ryanakca: I often want to set it to not ask for a password but I can never remember the syntax
[01:10] <ScottK> nixternal_: From in Kmail?
[01:10] <nixternal_> pay was OK, benefits were great, but the atmosphere was crappy because I was a nobody...we did some API testing crap and their alpha testing...and even while working there, I didn't use Windows
[01:10] <nixternal_> dunno about from kmail
[01:11] <ryanakca> Riddell: set what? sudo / /etc/sudoers ?
[01:12] <nosrednaekim> Riddell » you just have to uncomment the one line :)
[01:12] <oloughlin75> nixternal_: whats a good python IDE? I just need a compile/run button
[01:12] <nixternal_> Riddell: is there any documentation (wiki page) of the proxy stuff that needs to be added to Ubiquity?
[01:12] <nixternal_> oloughlin75: Eclipse with PyDev
[01:12] <nosrednaekim> oloughlin75 » python doesn't compile :)
[01:12] <oloughlin75> interpret and run***
[01:12] <nixternal_> there you go :)
[01:12] <oloughlin75> can it compile nativley though?
[01:12] <nixternal_> I have to admit, mibbit is kind of nice actually
[01:13] <Riddell> nixternal_: sent you e-mail
[01:13] <oloughlin75> im used to ecclipse
[01:13] <nosrednaekim> python is not meant to be compiled...
[01:13] <nixternal_> Riddell: groovy, thanks..I will look at it when I get home..I should be leaving class in a little bit
[01:14] <nixternal_> my head is going to blow up with this DB class... 1NF, 2NF, 3NF, 4NF, BCNF...wth is wrong with the people who created DBs?
[01:14] <nixternal_> parent key, foreign key, component key, relations (and not with your girlfriend)
[01:14] <nixternal_> INSANE!
[01:15] <oloughlin75> lol
[01:15] <oloughlin75> nixternal_: shouldn't you be paying attention?
[01:15] <nixternal_> probably
[01:15] <oloughlin75> tsk tsk
[01:15] <nixternal_> so far I have done pretty good faking like I know this stuff though
[01:15]  * Riddell sleeps
[01:16] <nixternal_> k'nite Riddell
[01:16] <nixternal_> I just shake my head to make the professor think I know what he is talking about
[01:16] <oloughlin75> lol
[01:18] <oloughlin75> in python is it standard to keep GUI and logic separate?
[01:19] <nosrednaekim> oloughlin75 » I don't....
[01:19] <nosrednaekim> but there is always a separate .ui file that is imported that contains the actual GUI
[01:20] <oloughlin75> i mean separation by classes. in java you usually dont mix
[01:20] <oloughlin75> but i suppose this will be mor elike visual basic
[01:20] <oloughlin75> style isnt super important
[01:22] <nixternal_> I like to code keeping ui and logic separate no matter the language I use
[01:22] <nixternal_> even java
[01:22] <nosrednaekim> yeah.... I have to say, some of my personal use programs are ugly:)
[01:23] <nixternal_> muhahah, we were just asked what is NULL mean in DB/SQL, and I said "depends on the data type" because that is what it means to me in coding..and I was right
[01:23] <nixternal_> now the teacher really thinks I know what I am doing
[01:23] <nosrednaekim> haha
[01:23] <nixternal_> ME THE WIN!
[01:24] <oloughlin75> whats mylyn/
[01:24] <oloughlin75> ?
[01:24] <nixternal_> people were saying "blank!" "0" "nothing"
[01:24] <oloughlin75> lydev says i need it
[01:24] <oloughlin75> pydev
[01:24] <nixternal_> I have no idea
[01:24] <oloughlin75> Pydev Mylyn Integration (0.3.0) requires plug-in "org.eclipse.mylyn (2.0.0.v20070627-1400)", or later version.
[01:24] <nixternal_> press the select required when you go to install PyDev through the Eclipse Installer
[01:24] <nixternal_> it will find it
[01:25] <oloughlin75> nope
[01:25] <nixternal_> OK, I am getting ready to head home....so I shall talk to ya in a couple
[01:27] <nosrednaekim> oloughlin75 » I don't use eclipse... I detest java so I can't really help :)
[01:27] <oloughlin75> nosrednaekim: what ide do you use?
[01:27] <nosrednaekim> I use Kate.... not really an IDE
[01:28] <oloughlin75> whatre the command to run the file?
[01:28] <oloughlin75> python /file/?
[01:28] <nosrednaekim> "python file.py"
[01:28] <oloughlin75> alright
[01:28] <oloughlin75> thats simple
[01:28] <ryanakca> hmm... for the masthead, should it be sharpcorners or rounded corners?
[01:28] <oloughlin75> ill just use geany
[01:35] <oloughlin75> oh my oh my
[01:35] <oloughlin75> no class declaration
[01:35] <oloughlin75> no funstion.method declaration
[01:35] <oloughlin75> function*
[01:35] <ryanakca> oloughlin75: in python?
[01:36] <oloughlin75> yep
[01:36] <oloughlin75> really weird looking lol
[01:37] <ryanakca> dunno what you're trying to do, but have you read http://docs.python.org/tut/node11.html or http://www.diveintopython.org/object_oriented_framework/defining_classes.html ?
[01:37] <oloughlin75> ryanakca: im following the tutorial from the tutorial days -- ill read the dive into python after
[01:37] <oloughlin75> its got the whole book
[01:37] <ryanakca> Ah, well, those two links talk about classes :)
[01:38] <oloughlin75> thats the thing, there arent classes in this program, unless they are implicit
[01:39]  * ryanakca scratches his head, smiles and nods :)
[01:39] <oloughlin75> lol alright
[01:45] <oloughlin75> how would i get the module pyKDE4.kdecore?
[01:46] <oloughlin75> !find pykde4
[01:46] <ubotu> Package/file pykde4 does not exist in gutsy
[01:46] <oloughlin75> !find pykde4 hardy
[01:46] <ubotu> Package/file pykde4 does not exist in hardy
[01:47] <cheguevara> !find python-kde4 hardy
[01:47] <ubotu> Found: python-kde4, python-kde4-dbg, python-kde4-dev, python-kde4-doc
[01:47] <cheguevara> :P
[01:47] <oloughlin75> meh
[01:47] <oloughlin75> thanks
[01:47] <cheguevara> np
[01:48] <oloughlin75> !info python-kde4-dev
[01:48] <ubotu> Package python-kde4-dev does not exist in gutsy
[01:48] <oloughlin75> !info python-kde4-dev hardy
[01:48] <ubotu> python-kde4-dev (source: kdebindings-kde4): KDE4 bindings for Python - Development files and scripts. In component universe, is optional. Version 4.0.0-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 178 kB, installed size 2320 kB
[01:48] <nosredna_ekim> oloughlin75 » add backports or the kde4 PPA
[01:48] <oloughlin75> alright
[01:48] <oloughlin75> thanks
[01:49] <nosredna_ekim> to get it for gutsy
[01:50] <oloughlin75> manage repos doesnt do anything:/
[01:50] <oloughlin75> the thing doesnt come up
[01:50] <nosredna_ekim> !kde4
[01:50] <ubotu> KDE 4.0.1 is the latest major release of the K Desktop Environment. KDE 4.0.1 packages can be found at http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.1.php - More information can be found at http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-4.0.1.php - Support in #kubuntu-kde4
[01:53] <oloughlin75> nosredna_ekim: its not in backports for gutsy
[01:53] <nosredna_ekim> mm... ok, then its in the PPA
[01:53] <oloughlin75> ppa?
[01:54] <nosredna_ekim> personal package archive
[01:54] <nosredna_ekim> should be on the announcement page
[01:54] <oloughlin75> http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu gutsy main
[01:54] <oloughlin75> ?
[01:55] <nosredna_ekim> yeah
[01:55] <oloughlin75> thanks nosredna_ekim
[01:55] <oloughlin75> and whats with the _?
[01:56] <nosredna_ekim> oloughlin75 » got disconnected and my other nick turned into a ghost
[01:58] <dasKreech> nosredna_ekim: So who you gonna call?
[01:59] <oloughlin75> nosredna_ekim: /msg nickserv recovery password
[01:59] <oloughlin75> nosredna_ekim: /msg nickserv recovery screenanme password
[01:59] <oloughlin75> nosredna_ekim: /msg nickserv recover screenanme password
[01:59] <oloughlin75> thats it ^
[02:07] <wolf08_>  Anyone familiar with paintEvents in Qt 4.3? I'm trying to update a rectangle of my QWidget with update(QRect()) but it is acting strangely
[02:07] <wolf08_> The rectangles are the correct size (between 2 points with a slight margin) but the screen update only happens where rectangles overlap
[02:31] <oloughlin75> Can somebody explain the following line to me?
[02:31] <oloughlin75> params = {"server":"mpilgrim", "database":"master", "uid":"sa", "pwd":"secret"}
[02:32] <oloughlin75> it -looks- like an array of strings
[02:32] <oloughlin75> but what are the colons?
[02:38] <yuriy> oloughlin75: python?
[02:39] <wolf08_> It looks like a dictionary
[02:39] <nixternal> dictionary
[02:39] <oloughlin75> and whats a dictionary?
[02:40] <wolf08_> server, database, uid, pwd are the lookup strings
[02:40] <wolf08_> the others are what you get when you look them up
[02:40] <wolf08_> ie
[02:40] <wolf08_> params["server"] = "mpilgrim"
[02:40] <oloughlin75> so its almost like variable declaration:what it contains?
[02:40] <oloughlin75> and its making an array like that
[02:41] <yuriy> oloughlin75: a dictionary, more commonly known as a map
[02:41] <nixternal> think this:  variable server = "mpilgrim", variable database = "master" and so on
[02:41] <oloughlin75> ok
[02:41] <oloughlin75> thanks
[02:41] <nixternal> but located inside the dictionary
[02:42] <oloughlin75> alright
[02:42] <nixternal> or damn, just like wolf08_ said, didn't see that:  [   wolf08_] params["server"] = "mpilgrim"
[02:42] <wolf08_> =p
[02:44] <oloughlin75> alright...
[02:44] <oloughlin75> i get it :)
[02:44] <oloughlin75> thanks
[02:45] <oloughlin75> beginner books suck at explaining tihngs ;s
[02:45] <wolf08_> Absolutely
[02:45] <wolf08_> I learned python through examples more or less
[02:46] <oloughlin75> map = " a collection of ket-to-value mappings, where both key and map can be any object..."
[02:46] <oloughlin75> so much more easier to understand
[02:46] <wolf08_> Although ironically I find programming Qt4 with C++ easier than programming in Python because everything is so much more structured and concrete
[02:46] <oloughlin75> wolf08_: thats one thing i like about java
[02:47] <oloughlin75> more detail almost
[02:47] <wolf08_> I never got into java. Dunno why.
[02:47] <oloughlin75> syntax is similar to c++
[02:47] <oloughlin75> making classes is different but its more or less the same
[02:48] <oloughlin75> python is reminding me of visual basic a little :/
[02:48] <wolf08_> =/
[02:49] <wolf08_> I do like the simplicity of python for quick scripting
[02:49] <wolf08_> I.E. in calc I'll be asked something that requires some sort of recursion or graph or anything that I can see a computer doing quickly
[02:49] <wolf08_> And I can model it with python almost instantaniously
[02:50] <oloughlin75> its take hours to write something like that in java
[02:50] <wolf08_> Converging series wher eI spet out every nth term? Yeah. Fractals? Yeah. Graphs? Yeah.
[02:50] <oloughlin75> to get the gui to draw
[02:50] <wolf08_> Heh
[03:31] <vorian> evening :)
[03:31] <oloughlin75> night
[05:43] <zepeuga> hi! when running "Xephyr :1" i got the error "Extended Input Devices not yet supported. bla bla bla" whats the matter?
[06:22] <nixternal> hiya Hobbsee
[06:22] <Hobbsee> heya!
[06:23] <nixternal> I am this >.< close to getting the proxy stuff in advanced working for ubiquity kde, but for some stinkin' reason, the kde frontend isn't detecting http_proxy :/
[07:58] <yao_ziyuan> one thing i have to talk directly here
[07:59] <yao_ziyuan> a majority of people likes KDE
[07:59] <yao_ziyuan> a totality of east asian people require automatic availability of input methods (SCIM)
[07:59] <yao_ziyuan> but when these two requirements come together,
[07:59] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu fails to meet them both.
[08:00] <yao_ziyuan> the solution?
[08:00] <yao_ziyuan> first, don't use skim.
[08:00] <yao_ziyuan> skim only makes trouble.
[08:00] <yao_ziyuan> use scim directly.
[08:00] <yao_ziyuan> scim has a gtk2 front end that stays in the GNOME or KDE taskbar tray area
[08:01] <jussi01> !enter
[08:01] <ubotu> Please try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!
[08:01] <yao_ziyuan> all you need to do is to abandon skim and instead configure scim correctly
[08:01] <yao_ziyuan> lol
[08:01] <jussi01> seriously. It sucks to come into a channel and have it filled with a monologue
[08:02] <hads> It's not really Laugh Out Loud material either.
[08:02] <yao_ziyuan> last line: fedora 8 kde livecd does this perfectly. they don't have skim and they just configure scim (along with its input methods) correctly for kde. here's a screenshot: http://infowire.googlegroups.com/web/fedora8.png?gda=NtqQQTwAAADWsl4Y8OducPseo6poK2clSxQ0LQgg5yz2tq3MgbcAIWG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDTzV980_yfTP0F2XnxqzJt2
[08:02] <yao_ziyuan> sorry for long link. but going to tinyurl is tough
[08:03] <Jucato> skim is also not something for Kubuntu to abandon. Kubuntu didn't create it. in fact, skim is an official scim project: http://www.scim-im.org/projects/skim
[08:03] <yao_ziyuan> i think it deserves a monologue because this really is THE LAST STEP you guys need to make toward world domination
[08:04] <yao_ziyuan> Jucato: then either you guys haven't configured it with scim along with those scim input methods correctly or you should just get rid of it and directly work on scim auto-configuration
[08:05] <Jucato> it would be better if you filed bug reports (or confirm already filed reports) on actual problems encountered with skim because "kubuntu fails to meet both" is very vague
[08:06] <yao_ziyuan> actually i filed one
[08:06] <yao_ziyuan> i meant kubuntu failed to configure skim/scim/im-switch/etc correctly for kde
[08:07] <Jucato> hm... maybe freeflying can be of some assistance in this area (he's from China iirc)
[08:07] <yao_ziyuan> so that after i add Chinese in System Settings i can't see input methods available in the tray
[08:08] <yao_ziyuan> currently, the chinese channel uses an improvised Guide to manually configure kubuntu for input methods
[08:08] <yao_ziyuan> which is not acceptable to me
[08:09] <yao_ziyuan> my bug report is: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/181300
[08:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181300 in unidistro-kde-desktop "Kubuntu East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
[08:09] <yao_ziyuan> maybe i should add this monologue to it as a new comment
[08:09] <Jucato> fair enough. but you also have to consider we don't have much Chinese/East Asian devs on the Kubuntu team... so any help we can get is much appreciated (it would be great if someone from the Chinese channel(s) helped)
[08:10]  * Jucato is from SE Asia, but we don't have our own alphabet :(
[08:10] <Jucato> s/alphabet/writing method/
[08:10] <yao_ziyuan> you just hack into redhat/fedora and see how they do it
[08:10] <yao_ziyuan> redhat is really the grandpa in linux commoditization
[08:11] <Jucato> yay! I just love being commanded to do stuff :)
[08:11]  * jussi01 hugs Jucato 
[08:11] <jussi01> double hilight Jucato :P
[08:11] <Jucato> heheh
[08:12] <Jucato> right... I'll just poke freeflying later about this. that's as far as I can personally do
[08:12] <yao_ziyuan> in my opinion, this bug is the one and only one thing you guys should attend
[08:12] <Jucato> yay! I just love "my bug is the only bug worth focusing on" commands :)
[08:12] <yao_ziyuan> there is english setup instructions on SCIM's official site
[08:12] <jussi01> yao_ziyuan: there are about 10000000 such bugs, depending on who you are
[08:13] <yao_ziyuan> Jucato, jussi01: i mean it
[08:13] <yao_ziyuan> Jucato, jussi01: no joking
[08:13] <Jucato> jussi01: c'mon! let's forget about the rest of the world
[08:14] <yao_ziyuan> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InputMethods/SCIM/Setup
[08:14] <jussi01> Jucato: heheheheheh... meh Im in the frozen north, who cares about you lot over there :P
[08:14] <yao_ziyuan> it is very easy to test whether you have solved the problem
[08:14] <Jucato> yao_ziyuan: your request was reasonable until now. now, it's no longer a request. and, after what you said, *if* I were the person working on it, I would seriously lose interest.
[08:15] <Jucato> jussi01: like I said, I'm not affected. we don't use a different script/alphabet here :)
[08:15] <yao_ziyuan> well!
[08:15] <yao_ziyuan> let me help you guys
[08:15] <yao_ziyuan> i will go download an ISO of Kubuntu 7.10
[08:15] <yao_ziyuan> install it as a virtual machine
[08:15] <yao_ziyuan> and figures out a procedure to configure scim correctly on it
[08:16] <jussi01> yao_ziyuan: why dnt you fix the bug, submit a deb diff and we can make sure it gets uploaded :)
[08:16] <yao_ziyuan> my procedure will be totally without skim. just like fedora/redhat.
[08:16] <yao_ziyuan> will you guys accept a patch like that?
[08:16] <jussi01> yao_ziyuan: you are monologuing again...
[08:16] <yao_ziyuan> diff? i don't know the syntax/format however
[08:17] <yao_ziyuan> i can give you guys a procedure of console commands
[08:17] <yao_ziyuan> you guys make it a script
[08:17] <yao_ziyuan> and on the event that the user adds an east asian language in kubuntu's System Settings,
[08:18] <yao_ziyuan> make sure that script run
[08:18] <yao_ziyuan> all right?
[08:18] <yao_ziyuan> okay me and i will start working
[08:21] <yao_ziyuan> or give that link to your chinese peer and let him do it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InputMethods/SCIM/Setup
[08:35] <_StefanS_> mornings
[08:43] <davmor2> Riddell: do you have a stable image for testing yet?
[10:11] <yao_ziyuan> i wonder if anything ensued after my departure...
[10:12] <Riddell> hi yao_ziyuan, what's the problem with skim?
[10:12] <yao_ziyuan> first of all, we can do without it
[10:12] <yao_ziyuan> second,
[10:13] <yao_ziyuan> there are two symptoms.
[10:14] <yao_ziyuan> the first symptom is: when you freshly install a Kubuntu 7.10, and add language Chinese in it System Settings,
[10:14] <yao_ziyuan> and restart system, you get no input methods available in the tray area
[10:15] <yao_ziyuan> the most typical symptom with skim is simply that when you left-click its tray icon, it shows an empty menu (the menu is supposed to be a list of input methods)
[10:15] <yao_ziyuan> thus, by default, skim does not provide any input method list
[10:16] <Riddell> are you using qt-language-selector?
[10:16] <yao_ziyuan> symptom #2 is mostly my personal problem. i somehow ruined skim configuration once and every time i click "Global Setup" in its Configuration dialog box, it crashed. never mind.
[10:16] <yao_ziyuan> qt-language-selector? i don't know. i know i added Chinese in Kubuntu's System Settings
[10:17] <yao_ziyuan> i'm now redownloading the Kubuntu ISO file
[10:17] <yao_ziyuan> but,
[10:17] <yao_ziyuan> one good news i found last time with Kubuntu is that
[10:17] <yao_ziyuan> if i choose Chinese to be the "installation language" when installing the Kubuntu Live CD to my hard disk (actually the hard disk of a virtual machine),
[10:18] <yao_ziyuan> i can get immediate availability of a correctly configured SCIM tray icon after installation
[10:18] <yao_ziyuan> but it's not SKIM. so everything points that we have less trouble without SKIM
[10:19] <yao_ziyuan> when i left-click that SCIM tray icon, there will be a menu of some input methods
[10:20] <yao_ziyuan> but that approach has its own problem: its font for displaying english is a monowidth one (a Chinese font) and i can't fix it
[10:22] <yao_ziyuan> to be more current,
[10:22] <yao_ziyuan> i will download Kubuntu Hardy Alpha 4
[10:23] <yao_ziyuan> and figure out what is missing for the input methods after adding Chinese
[10:26] <yao_ziyuan> my experience is that skim itself is buggy and is an additional weak point in the whole cycle
[10:27] <yao_ziyuan> currently i know 3 ways to get scim working under KDE, and none of them involves skim.
[10:27] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: hrm, trouble is we're a pure kde distro and don't install gtk apps by default
[10:27] <yao_ziyuan> way #1: install ubuntu, install chinese (this gets scim ready), and then install kubuntu-desktop, and then log in with a kde session, and now you can press Ctrl+Space to invoke an input method.
[10:27] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: so you're so "pure"...
[10:28] <Hobbsee> modulo openoffice.
[10:28] <yao_ziyuan> #2: install kubuntu and choose chinese as the "installation language" at the very first page of the installation wizard. you will see the scim tray icon after installation.
[10:29] <yao_ziyuan> #3: install fedora 8 kde live cd and then add chinese language support in its Control Center.
[10:29] <Riddell> davmor2: do give today's daily-live CD a shot
[10:29] <jussi01> wow, yet another monologue!
[10:29] <Riddell> jussi01: it's useful
[10:29] <davmor2> Riddell: np
[10:29] <yao_ziyuan> these 3 success stories say that skim is unnecessary and only makes trouble.
[10:30] <Jucato> jussi01: let him be. Riddell's here to listen, so it's more appropriate. :) wonder if freeflying is around
[10:30] <yao_ziyuan> i know there is a mood among western developers that "east asian features don't matter"
[10:31] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: weird I haven't seen that
[10:31] <Riddell> I wouldn't say that
[10:31] <yao_ziyuan> but sophisticated companies like microsoft and redhat emphasize those things (e.g. localization) very much
[10:31] <Jucato> yao_ziyuan: that's actually not true. but pointing out that your problem is the only problem that deserves to be focused on is not nice
[10:31] <yao_ziyuan> i even see gcc's output messages totally localized to chinese in fedora 8
[10:34] <yao_ziyuan> Jucato: from the global perspective, this bug is the most important thing. if i were a westerner, i would think kubuntu is already perfect :)
[10:34] <yao_ziyuan> but the world is somewhat interdependent now
[10:35] <Jucato> yao_ziyuan: big difference between "very important and needs to be addressed ASAP" and "most important and all others pale in comparison"
[10:36] <yao_ziyuan> the problem is that this distro has a name "human"
[10:36] <yao_ziyuan> so that makes this very funny
[10:39] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: you're a pure kde distro and don't install gtk apps by default, but scim itself is a gtk app...
[10:41] <yao_ziyuan> and isn't kubuntu the one that can put a kde theme to all gtk2 apps?
[10:42] <yao_ziyuan> trust me, the end user doesn't really care if you're "pure"
[10:43] <stdin> scim is gtk+, skim is kde
[10:44] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: if you install chinese from qt-language-selector it does install scim
[10:46] <Tm_T> I wonder why this "human" bit means we should stop everything else to fix scim/skim issue
[11:00] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: in " #1: install ubuntu, install chinese", how do you install chinese?
[11:02] <Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-kde4/daily-live/20080220/   so...very...close...
[11:02] <Riddell> but no universe :(
[11:04] <danimo> hi, did anyone suffer from problems with suspend to ram?
[11:04] <Riddell> it doesn't work for me
[11:06] <danimo> Riddell: yepp, same here
[11:06] <Riddell> hibernate works but
[11:06] <danimo> Riddell: and the sound driver fails to switch to external sound output
[11:06] <danimo> it's the same crap over and over with every new ubuntu release :(
[11:06] <Riddell> people were moaning about that yesterday
[11:08] <Riddell> danimo: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+filebug
[11:08] <Riddell> or try #ubuntu-kernel
[11:09] <danimo> Riddell: yeah, you're right
[11:10] <danimo> Riddell: btw: is the plan to make kde 4.0.[123] the default in  hardy still current?
[11:10] <yao_ziyuan> i'm back from supper
[11:10] <Riddell> danimo: the plan is to have two CDs with the kde 4 CD the one we big up
[11:11] <yao_ziyuan> (6:44:38 PM) Riddell: yao_ziyuan: if you install chinese from qt-language-selector it does install scim << yes it does, but it does not correctly configure scim, im-switch, the input methods, skim, so that these things can really work together (left-clicking skim shows an empty menu of input methods)
[11:12] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: what if you run "sudo qt-language-selector --mode select" and chose chinese, does that configure it right?
[11:13] <yao_ziyuan> Tm_T: this "human" bit hints that ubuntu is for all humans to use but it actually rejects east asian users because it doesn't provide input methods on the desktop well, and therefore it implies some people are not human...
[11:13] <danimo> Riddell:
[11:13] <danimo> danimo@lenina:/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d$ cat resume
[11:13] <danimo> RESUME=UUID=1992eb93-773e-4472-8922-72bc5336992c
[11:13] <danimo> Riddell: does this corresond to any of your UUIDs?
[11:13] <danimo> Riddell: because it doesn't for me
[11:14] <yao_ziyuan> (7:00:59 PM) Riddell: yao_ziyuan: in " #1: install ubuntu, install chinese", how do you install chinese? << in ubuntu's System > Administration > Language, add Chinese and check "input support for complex scripts"
[11:14] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: hmm, if it fails to write some spanish special characters, are spanish out too?
[11:14] <Tm_T> yao_ziyuan: I understand your headache, I'm sorry
[11:15] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: currently i have no kubuntu installed; i'm downloading one
[11:16] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: so i can't answer this for now: >> (7:12:47 PM) Riddell: yao_ziyuan: what if you run "sudo qt-language-selector --mode select" and chose chinese, does that configure it right?
[11:17] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: qt-language-selector --mode select gives you that "input support for complex scripts" tickbox
[11:17] <yao_ziyuan> that would be great
[11:18] <yao_ziyuan> if it then does exactly what ubuntu does, i will have input methods by pressing Ctrl+Space
[11:18] <yao_ziyuan> but if it then does the skim way the problem will persist
[11:19] <Riddell> you can also run ""qt-language-selector --mode select" from system settings -> languages -> select system lanugage
[11:19] <yao_ziyuan> but way #2 is a minor problem: there is no scim tray icon although pressing ctrl+space does bring up an input method
[11:20] <yao_ziyuan> s/is/has
[11:21] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: what are you talking about? ubuntu?
[11:21] <yao_ziyuan> currently i have ubuntu 7.10, fedora 8 w/ kde installed as virtual machines
[11:21] <yao_ziyuan> the latter was installed by a fedora 8 kde live cd iso
[11:22] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: I'm talking about Kubuntu
[11:22] <yao_ziyuan> in Ubuntu's System > Administration > Language Support
[11:23] <yao_ziyuan> in Supported Languages, check Chinese, while Default Language remains English (USA),
[11:23] <yao_ziyuan> and check "Enable support to enter complex characters"
[11:23] <yao_ziyuan> this is how to enable scim tray icon in ubuntu
[11:23] <yao_ziyuan> after this,
[11:24] <yao_ziyuan> if you install kbuntu-desktop on ubuntu, and log in with a kde session, you won't see scim tray icon in the kde taskbar but you can press ctrl+space to invoke an input method.
[11:24] <yao_ziyuan> my kubuntu 7.10 iso download progress is 61%
[11:25] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: select system language? i don't know if it would work
[11:26] <yao_ziyuan> but i do know if in kubuntu i go to KDE Control Center and then click Regional & Language and then Install Language: Chinese and then Add Language: Chinese,
[11:26] <yao_ziyuan> i will not be able to use input methods
[11:27] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: maybe it'll work with "select system lanugage" and tick that "input support for complex scripts" box then
[11:28] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: by  system settings -> languages -> select system lanugage, you can see an input method by ctrl+space?
[11:29] <davmor2> Riddell: is there anyway you can set the default pcm volume down 10%? nearly blew my speakers
[11:30] <Riddell> davmor2: no idea, themuso is our sound dude
[11:31] <yao_ziyuan> it will take half an hour to complete the kubuntu download and another half an hour to install it as a virtual machine
[11:31] <jussi01> davmor2: I beleive crimsun - the alsa maintainer, can do that
[11:31] <davmor2> I think it's mostly a hda audio thing but as most are hda now it doesn't help
[11:32] <yao_ziyuan> in the meanwhile i want to talk about the big picture...
[11:32] <yao_ziyuan> there are similar slashdot stories recently like this one: http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/236763207/article.pl
[11:33] <yao_ziyuan> "Why Linux Doesn't Spread"
[11:33] <yao_ziyuan> i spammed 5 comments of the same idea there
[11:39] <yao_ziyuan> my rants were:
[11:50] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: we'll sell it to you if you want
[11:50] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[11:52] <yao_ziyuan> Red Hat sells one
[11:55] <yao_ziyuan> i have tried Fedora, Kubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Knoppix
[11:55] <yao_ziyuan> for kde-based distros.
[11:56] <yao_ziyuan> only fedora automatically sets up chinese input for me
[11:58] <yao_ziyuan> in high school i was a programming contest participant and used debian but only its console part
[11:58] <yao_ziyuan> and also Red Hat
[12:05] <yao_ziyuan> downloaded
[12:05] <yao_ziyuan> running the live cd
[12:06] <yao_ziyuan> Kubuntu Hardy Alpha 4
[12:07] <davmor2> Riddell: 64bit live and install seems okay
[12:07] <davmor2> apart from volume
[12:08] <Riddell> davmor2: excellent
[12:08] <davmor2> just trying 32bit now
[12:09] <yao_ziyuan> among all kde-based distros,
[12:09] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu has the nicest boot screen, login screen, wallpaper, theme...
[12:11] <yao_ziyuan> this is why despite the lethal input method problem i still tirelessly rant here for fixing that problem
[12:11] <Riddell> which we appreciate
[12:13] <yao_ziyuan> yeah, now i see "Enable support to enter complex characters" in "Select System Language"
[12:13] <yao_ziyuan> i never noticed "Select System Language" before
[12:14] <yao_ziyuan> now i hit Install New Language and select Chinese
[12:14] <yao_ziyuan> it's downloading packages
[12:16] <yao_ziyuan> it's pretty confusing
[12:16] <yao_ziyuan> there is a Default Language which is always the topmost one in the Languages list
[12:16] <yao_ziyuan> and there is a Select System Language button which i never feel any need to click
[12:19] <yao_ziyuan> better make it like this: if the Default (topmost) language is an east asian one, the system automatically enable support to enter complex chars
[12:19] <yao_ziyuan> or better: if ANY language in the Languages list is an east asian one
[12:20] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: how's your python? :)
[12:20] <yao_ziyuan> this is because if the user ever has a need to read east asian information, he might as well need to write in that language
[12:20] <yao_ziyuan> python?
[12:20] <Riddell> programming language that language-selector is written in
[12:20] <yao_ziyuan> i've heard python has something to do with this
[12:21] <yao_ziyuan> i don't know.
[12:21] <yao_ziyuan> i googled for this bug, and some results said something about python
[12:23] <yao_ziyuan> but if Select System Language's Enable Support to Enter Complex Characters doesn't solve this bug,
[12:23] <yao_ziyuan> i think we should consult SCIM's official instructions
[12:24] <yao_ziyuan> if skim is still haunting around
[12:25] <davmor2> Riddell: is the language option meant to popup and obscure the menu?
[12:26] <Riddell> davmor2: nope
[12:26] <davmor2> it is
[12:26] <Riddell> davmor2: which CD does that happen with?
[12:26] <davmor2> on 32bit
[12:26] <davmor2> on the opening menu
[12:27] <davmor2> I thought it only did it if you hit the language button
[12:27] <Riddell> that's the intention
[12:27] <davmor2> right not a bug, it's a feature ;)
[12:28] <Riddell> davmor2: are you pressing the language button or is it doing it automatically?
[12:28] <yao_ziyuan> failed to download a package
[12:28] <davmor2> Riddell: automatic I press no buttons
[12:28] <Riddell> right, a bug
[12:28] <yao_ziyuan> Kubuntu's Install New Language feature is very buggy, it says "New language successfully installed" even if you manually canceled the package downloading
[12:29] <davmor2> do you want me to report it then?
[12:29] <Riddell> davmor2: please do, although I'm not sure what on
[12:30] <davmor2> I'll take a quick snapshot of it too
[12:33] <Riddell> davmor2: hang on
[12:33] <Riddell> davmor2: cjwatson says it's intentional, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/+bug/39888
[12:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 39888 in gfxboot-theme-ubuntu "Auto ask for languages" [Wishlist,Fix released]
[12:35] <yao_ziyuan> installing Kubuntu Hardy Alpha 4 to a virtual machine
[12:38] <davmor2> I suppose i makes sense but it looks bad at the moment
[12:39] <Riddell> yes, the UI is inconsistent
[12:42] <davmor2> Riddell: http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/davmor2/UbuntuScreenshots/photo#51690417338721
[12:42] <Riddell> 404 NOT_FOUND
[12:42] <Riddell> but I believe you
[12:44] <davmor2> Riddell: sorry missed the end off http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/davmor2/UbuntuScreenshots/photo#5169041733872149698
[12:45] <Riddell> yes, pretty ugly
[12:46] <Riddell> curious how Arabic is written in English
[12:46] <davmor2> not nice at all and this is LTS it should look prettier than that ?
[12:47] <Jucato> (Kubuntu Hardy won't be LTS...)
[12:47] <davmor2> does it on 64 bit too I just missed it :(
[12:47] <davmor2> Jucato: I know that but if they're doing it across the board it's still looks bad :(
[12:48] <Jucato> right :)
[12:57] <smarter> davmor2: I'm pretty sure it's a feature
[12:58] <smarter> I saw it in a release note IIRC
[13:14] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu hardy alpha 4 installed as virtual machine
[13:25] <yao_ziyuan> o no
[13:25] <yao_ziyuan> i downloaded the wrong thing
[13:25] <yao_ziyuan> alpha 4 is known for the python bug
[13:25] <yao_ziyuan> which doesn't allow me to change screen resolution, etc.
[13:26] <yao_ziyuan> anything that requires administrative mode
[13:26]  * yao_ziyuan goes bust his head onto the wall
[13:34] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: I believe the python bug was fixed recently
[13:34] <yao_ziyuan> but i can't download a fixed version
[13:34] <yao_ziyuan> can i?
[13:35] <jpatrick> apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[13:35] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: see topic in #ubuntu+1
[13:36] <yao_ziyuan> i
[13:36] <yao_ziyuan> ah
[13:36] <yao_ziyuan> sounds interesting
[13:37] <yao_ziyuan> topic is: Welcome to #ubuntu+1 "Home of the Hardy Heron" | dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy in #ubuntu | If you are here to ask questions such as "what repositories do i use?", "is hardy going to break for me?", update without checking what is to be updated, or do not know how to resolve dependencies with apt, DO NOT RUN HARDY | Help test LTS upgrade: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSUpgradesHowto
[13:37] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: If you use hardy I recommend idling in that channel so you know if someonthing's wrong
[13:38] <Hobbsee> oops, you broke it (koffice2 ppa)
[13:40] <Riddell> koffice2 is still building
[13:41] <yao_ziyuan> so are you guys going to put kde 3.5.9 in kubuntu 8.04?
[13:41] <Riddell> already have
[13:41] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: we have
[13:42] <yao_ziyuan> why are major version numbers designated as 7.10, 8.04?
[13:42] <jpatrick> !versions
[13:42] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about versions - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:42] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: it's year.month
[13:43] <yao_ziyuan> o
[13:43] <jussi01> !releases
[13:43] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[13:43] <yao_ziyuan> i read fedora 9's statement which swears to kick ubuntu 8.04's ass
[13:43] <yao_ziyuan> it will have kde4...
[13:44] <Riddell> so will 8.04
[13:44] <yao_ziyuan> ah ha?
[13:44] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: decided ages ago
[13:44] <yao_ziyuan> i heard "8.04 will be the last version with kde 3.5"
[13:44] <jussi01> correct
[13:45] <yao_ziyuan> then why will 8.04 have kde4?
[13:45] <yao_ziyuan> i mean "ship with kde4"
[13:45] <Riddell> it'll have both
[13:45] <Riddell> take your pick
[13:47] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: http://alioth.debian.org/~jpatrick-guest/kubuntu-meeting-20071222.pdf
[13:47] <yao_ziyuan> ..
[13:47] <yao_ziyuan> why should i read?
[13:47] <yao_ziyuan> i've already known the general idea
[13:47] <jpatrick> details ;)
[13:47] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[13:49] <Riddell> anyone want to write the monthly team report?
[13:50] <yao_ziyuan> now installing Chinese language support in hardy 4
[13:50] <yao_ziyuan> will soon find out whether input methods work
[13:52] <jjesse> morning
[13:53] <yao_ziyuan> Default System Language set to Chinese (China)
[13:53] <yao_ziyuan> now restarting system
[13:53] <yao_ziyuan> after restart i will find out whether the input methods are there
[14:07] <freeflying> Jucato: hi
[14:07] <Jucato> hi freeflying! you're from China, am I right?
[14:10] <freeflying> Jucato: yes, and I just came back from linu seminar in China
[14:10] <Jucato> oooh nice! (wonder when there will be one in the Philippines again...)
[14:10] <freeflying> Jucato: meet with some kernel geeks, like Andrew, Johnason :)
[14:11] <Jucato> kool :)
[14:11] <freeflying> also, a kde girl involved in plasma :)
[14:11] <Jucato> hm.. Chani?
[14:11] <freeflying> yes
[14:11] <Jucato> hahah! :)
[14:12] <freeflying> Jucato: so, you ping me for what
[14:12] <Jucato> freeflying: if you could take a peek into yao_ziyuan's bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/181300
[14:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181300 in unidistro-kde-desktop "Kubuntu East Asian language display and input not as good as Ubuntu" [Undecided,New]
[14:13] <Jucato> (you could also see the scrollback, his um... "discussion" has been going on for quite a while :D)
[14:13] <Jucato> freeflying: basically he has issues with skim... didn't know who else to ask (this was before Riddell was around)
[14:13] <freeflying> heh, some developer from Canonical is in charge of CJK now :P
[14:14] <Jucato> both for GNOME and KDE I hope?
[14:15] <Riddell> in theory..
[14:16] <Jucato> ah.. in theory... :)
[14:19] <freeflying> Riddell: I need to have a scim conffile specific to skim under kubuntu, how about to ship it in kubuntu-default-setting, to solve the issue guys may encount with skim
[14:20] <Riddell> freeflying: we could do that
[14:20] <yao_ziyuan> back from shitting
[14:20] <freeflying> Riddell: to put it into ~/.scim, is that ok?
[14:21] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: hey
[14:22] <yao_ziyuan> hi hi
[14:23] <davmor2> Riddell: Both 32bit and 64bit seem okay
[14:23] <yao_ziyuan> now i see how it works
[14:23] <yao_ziyuan> if i Set System Language to Chinese,
[14:24] <yao_ziyuan> and restart kubuntu,
[14:24] <davmor2> Riddell: out of curiosity is there a kde equivalent to ndisgtk?
[14:24] <yao_ziyuan> the aftermath = way #2
[14:24] <yao_ziyuan> i.e. choosing chinese as installation language during installation
[14:24] <Riddell> freeflying: that would also need a change to the startkde script to copy the file
[14:25] <Riddell> davmor2: great
[14:25] <yao_ziyuan> this brings 2 new problems:
[14:25] <yao_ziyuan> 1. all english letters are displayed in a monotype
[14:25] <Riddell> davmor2: I don't know what ndisgtk is but if it's to do with ndiswrapper then jockey ought to do the job
[14:25] <freeflying> Riddell: but this trick is something dirty  :)
[14:25] <yao_ziyuan> 2. login screen has broken chinese chars (displayed as dots)
[14:25] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: 2 is a know bugs
[14:26] <Riddell> 1. is also surely? I see that
[14:26] <davmor2> Riddell: and as a bonus no dodgy window opens saying that there is a drive available so nice one :)
[14:26] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: for 1 you may feedback to  ArneGoetje
[14:27] <yao_ziyuan> i feedback to no one
[14:28] <Riddell> then nothing will get fixed
[14:28] <yao_ziyuan> i already found a kde-based distro that gives me perfect chinese display and input: fedora 8
[14:28] <yao_ziyuan>  now i will set system language back to english
[14:28] <yao_ziyuan> and try other methods
[14:29] <yao_ziyuan> (6:27:46 PM) yao_ziyuan: way #1: install ubuntu, install chinese (this gets scim ready), and then install kubuntu-desktop, and then log in with a kde session, and now you can press Ctrl+Space to invoke an input method.
[14:29] <yao_ziyuan> this way is more promising
[14:30] <yao_ziyuan> why don't you kubuntu devel guys just copy how ubuntu installs and configures scim?
[14:30] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: seems you know quite few about the insight between ubuntu and kubuntu
[14:31] <Riddell> what's the difference?
[14:31] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: we have the same scim package for both ubunutu, kubuntu
[14:31] <yao_ziyuan> that's good
[14:32] <yao_ziyuan> but the devil is how you configure it
[14:32] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: it just work out-of-box
[14:33] <freeflying> at lease you can have scim work correctly for you
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> i found myself unable to set system language back to english. the Set System Language dialog box has junk items in it and no one works
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> freeflying: no way
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> freeflying: if i install kubuntu with installation language = english,
[14:33] <yao_ziyuan> and then install new language: chinese
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> and then add it to the Languages list
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> there will be no input methods
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> no scim
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> no nothing
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> only Ubuntu can set scim up
[14:34] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: you may have a try with install kubuntu with livecd, or alternatecd, but do remember to choose Chinese as your default language
[14:34] <yao_ziyuan> it sets scim up so well that even if i log in with a kde session i can still ctrl+space to invoke an input method
[14:35] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: and agree to download language support from internet
[14:35] <yao_ziyuan> choose chinese during installation? i know that will enable scim input methods, but the 2 new problems it introduces are unacceptable to me
[14:35] <yao_ziyuan> then you lack flexibity
[14:36] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: also you can set up language in systemsettings, its using the same language-selector
[14:36] <jpatrick> Riddell: http://alioth.debian.org/~jpatrick-guest/kubuntu-www3.diff
[14:36] <yao_ziyuan> i know,
[14:36] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell told me that
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> let's copy fedora 8 kde live cd 's source code
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> and rebrand it with kubuntu's wallpaper, theme, login screen :)
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> haha
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> that's the quickest way to fix everything
[14:37] <Riddell> jpatrick: applied
[14:37] <yao_ziyuan> and catch up with the pioneer redhat
[14:37] <jpatrick> Riddell: thanks
[14:39] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: if you have problems with any distros, please feedback it, but not just complain it, thanks
[14:40] <yao_ziyuan> let's figure out a way to manually set up scim
[14:40] <yao_ziyuan> without installing new language chinese and setting it as system language
[14:40] <yao_ziyuan> freeflying: i'm not complaining. i'm always proposing good solutions :)
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> if fedora 8 kde live cd publishes all its configuration scripts,
[14:41] <yao_ziyuan> we should be able to know how it installs scim to its kde taskbar
[14:43] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: fedora using im-chooser to set up input method, but we use im-switch, im-chooser is an grk application, im-switch was writen in perl
[14:43] <yao_ziyuan> you already know it!
[14:44] <yao_ziyuan> so all you guys go a purist path?
[14:44] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: I'd use two RPM based distro in my office, so how can I don't know it?
[14:44] <yao_ziyuan> then adopt im-chooser...
[14:45] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: its not suitable for us
[14:45] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[14:45] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: I have already study this two years ago
[14:46] <yao_ziyuan> too bad
[14:46] <yao_ziyuan> let's surrender to red hat
[14:46] <freeflying> yao_ziyuan: they have their ways
[14:47] <yao_ziyuan> freeflying: so how do you get scim working in kubuntu?
[14:51] <yao_ziyuan> the chinese ubuntu user community follows this tutorial to set up chinese input in kubuntu:
[14:51] <yao_ziyuan> http://wiki.ubuntu.org.cn/%E5%BF%AB%E9%80%9F%E8%AE%BE%E7%BD%AE%E6%8C%87%E5%8D%97/GutsyGibbon#.E8.AE.BE.E7.BD.AE.E7.B3.BB.E7.BB.9F.E4.B8.AD.E6.96.87.E7.8E.AF.E5.A2.83.E6.94.AF.E6.8C.81
[14:51] <yao_ziyuan> it sucks
[14:52] <yao_ziyuan> it requires you to set system language to chinese
[14:55] <yao_ziyuan> currently the only way to get kubuntu work with chinese input methods
[14:55] <yao_ziyuan> is to install ubuntu first
[14:55] <yao_ziyuan> then chinese
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> then kubuntu-desktop
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> lose nothing
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> get everything
[14:56] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: what's the difference when doing that?
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> when doing that,
[14:56] <yao_ziyuan> scim is set up by ubuntu
[14:57] <yao_ziyuan> and if i log in to a kde desktop,
[14:57] <yao_ziyuan> i can ctrl+space to activate an input method
[14:58] <yao_ziyuan> in this way, i don't have monotype problem and kde login screen bad chinese char problem
[14:58] <Riddell> so it's a difference of fontconfig settings
[14:58] <yao_ziyuan> also,
[14:58] <yao_ziyuan> how does ubuntu sets up scim?
[14:58] <yao_ziyuan> does it use im-switch or im-chooser?
[14:59] <Riddell> it's all the same language-selector
[14:59] <yao_ziyuan> if it uses im-switch,
[14:59] <yao_ziyuan> it can be said that im-switch works better with gnome
[15:00] <yao_ziyuan> i'm beginning to think
[15:01] <yao_ziyuan> that a separate brand "kubuntu" is unnecessary
[15:01] <Riddell> that's not relevent
[15:04] <yao_ziyuan> ubuntu and kubuntu may be using the same set up procedure for scim
[15:04] <yao_ziyuan> but this procedure favors gnome
[15:05] <yao_ziyuan> and sucks for kde
[15:05] <yao_ziyuan> since ubuntu does so good a job setting up scim,
[15:05] <yao_ziyuan> why not put all such duties on ubuntu
[15:06] <Riddell> changing the branding isn't magically going to change a technical issue
[15:07] <yao_ziyuan> make gnome a required component for ubuntu
[15:07] <yao_ziyuan> and if the user wants to install chinese input methods,
[15:07] <yao_ziyuan> tell him to log in to gnome desktop and install there
[15:07] <yao_ziyuan> and back to kde desktop and he will automatically have input methods
[15:08] <Riddell> that's hardly a solution, finding the difference would help create a solution
[15:09] <blizzzek> bye
[15:09] <yao_ziyuan> you guys must have access to ubuntu's procedure of installing/configuring scim
[15:11] <Riddell> well yes, we use the same tool
[15:14] <buz> are there already alpha5 cds for testing?
[15:14] <jjesse> not until friday i heard
[15:15] <buz> ok i'll wait with reinstalling hardy until then, i guess
[15:15] <buz> mine seems pretty broken
[15:15] <Riddell> jjesse: where did you hear that?
[15:15] <buz> releaseschedule says the 18th
[15:15] <jjesse> wasn't that due to launchpad downtime?
[15:15] <jjesse> thought i saw that in an email?
[15:18] <Riddell> yes indeed https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-February/000381.html
[15:18] <Riddell> but testing can still be done
[15:18] <jjesse> yes that's right
[15:19] <Riddell> "And so I'd like to introduce you to the Intrepid Ibex.."
[15:19] <jjesse> is that the next release?
[15:19] <Riddell> picked because this one looks like jono http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Capra_ibex_ibex_–_03.jpg
[15:20] <jpatrick> "kmediafactory-kde4 (0.6-0ubuntu1) ibex; urgency=low"
[15:21] <jpatrick> nice..
[15:21] <jjesse> so 8.10 will intrepid ibex
[15:22] <DaSKreech> I had voted for Incontinent Ibex :-(
[15:23] <buz> Riddell: so where to get isos for testing
[15:24] <yao_ziyuan> if i set all fonts in System Settings -> Appearance -> Fonts to Sans Serif 8,
[15:24] <yao_ziyuan> all chinese displays well everywhere
[15:25] <yao_ziyuan> so the conclusion:
[15:25] <Riddell> buz: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20080220/
[15:25] <Riddell> buz: those are entirely untested, I've no idea if they work, but it would be interesting to find out
[15:25] <buz> will that become alpha5?
[15:25] <Riddell> buz: if there's no problems with it
[15:26] <buz> only alternate is there
[15:26] <Riddell> buz: the desktop ones have been tested
[15:26] <yao_ziyuan> 1. install ubuntu; 2. install chinese language support and enable to input complex characters in ubuntu; 3. install kubuntu-desktop in ubuntu; 4. log in ubuntu with a kde session; 5. make sure in System Settings -> Appearance -> Fonts that all fonts are set to Sans Serif 8.
[15:26] <yao_ziyuan> now, you will get perfect chinese display and input in kde...
[15:26] <buz> ah well i can try alternate
[15:27] <yao_ziyuan> the only thing missing is a scim icon in the tray area
[15:27] <yao_ziyuan> but that doesn't matter since every chinese knows ctrl+space can activate an input method
[15:27] <yao_ziyuan> bottom line: abandon kubuntu and keep working on kubuntu-desktop
[15:29] <yao_ziyuan> finally! we made it! scim with kde!
[15:30] <jpatrick> abandon kubuntu?
[15:31] <jjesse> jpatrick: because scim doesn't work correctly w/ kde
[15:31] <DaSKreech> What about skim?
[15:31] <yao_ziyuan> yes yes
[15:31] <yao_ziyuan> kde should only be available as a package
[15:31] <yao_ziyuan> not as a distro
[15:31] <yao_ziyuan> kill skim!
[15:32] <smarter> or make it better...
[15:35] <jpatrick> wb Nightrose
[15:35] <yao_ziyuan> i'm uploading a screenshot
[15:35] <yao_ziyuan> ubuntu with kde
[15:36] <yao_ziyuan> with scim working
[15:36] <yao_ziyuan> using the method i said above
[15:36] <Nightrose> hey jpatrick ;-)
[15:37] <yao_ziyuan> you're too good to be true
[15:42] <yao_ziyuan> http://infowire.googlegroups.com/web/ubuntu-kde.png?gda=bA2SCD8AAADWsl4Y8OducPseo6poK2clUCs6sGOtvEZ8vKsw5JO8ImG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDRbc336TSoxjX0fZc4FmgOo
[15:42] <yao_ziyuan> the screenshot
[15:44] <yao_ziyuan> the existence of kubuntu as a distro is blocking kde's spread in asia
[15:45] <jjesse> how does that work?
[15:45] <yuriy> Riddell: still working on system-config-printer? all the problems i mentioned when you put up the test package are still there
[15:45] <yuriy> i'd file bugs, but basically nothing works
[15:45] <yao_ziyuan> how wonderful life is with kubuntu-desktop and without kubuntu in the world...
[15:46] <yao_ziyuan> jjesse: east asian users won't accept kubuntu at all
[15:46] <yao_ziyuan> jjesse: currently the only way is give them ubuntu + kubuntu-desktop
[15:46] <jjesse> i'm not understanding why or how that works
[15:47] <yao_ziyuan> this screenshot is a nice example of ubuntu + kubuntu-desktop
[15:47] <yao_ziyuan> so we get both kde and chinese input
[15:47] <smarter> This doesn't mean anything
[15:47] <jjesse> why not fix what is causing the problem
[15:47] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: same thing basically
[15:47] <jjesse> instead of complaing
[15:47] <smarter> You need an ubuntu app to make scim work right?
[15:48] <smarter> and skim doesn't work?
[15:48] <smarter> so skim must be fixed
[15:48] <buz> not knowing any east asian language fixing this is kinda hard
[15:48] <yao_ziyuan> this working scim was installed by ubuntu
[15:48] <smarter> you can install it under kubuntu
[15:48] <smarter> but a fill a bug report about skim not working
[15:48] <yao_ziyuan> thus spake our president: skim is not the solution; skim is the problem!
[15:48] <smarter> so it should be fixed
[15:48] <smarter> not removed
[15:49] <yao_ziyuan> buz: you don't need to know one
[15:49] <yao_ziyuan> buz: there is a simple way to test if your scim works fine
[15:49] <buz> how would i test input method without knowing what should happen
[15:49] <smarter> what's exactly the problem with skim?
[15:49] <Riddell> yuriy: yes I'm still working on it, I don't think bugs are useful at this stage there's a lot missing
[15:49] <jpatrick> "< dholbach> UBUNTU DEVELOPER WEEK Session starting in #ubuntu-classroom in 15 minutes"
[15:49] <yao_ziyuan> buz: that is, open a Kate or KWrite, press Ctrl+Space, and type a pinyin syllable, such as "wo", and you should see a candidate window like shown in the screenshot
[15:49] <DaSKreech> yao_ziyuan: Could you file a bug report with the way to test skim properly for Asian languages ?
[15:50] <yao_ziyuan> if you see, it works...
[15:50] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: what doesn't work with skim?
[15:50]  * DaSKreech heads to work
[15:51] <smarter> I don't have anything special installed but when I right-click in a text field I get an input methods menu with scim inside
[15:51]  * buz goes to reinstall from 20080220 alternate
[15:51] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: once i got scim + skim + scim-pinyin to work fine
[15:51] <yao_ziyuan> so if configured correctly, skim indeed can work
[15:52] <yao_ziyuan> the problem is, kubuntu nether configures skim nor skim nor skim-pinyin correctly
[15:52] <yao_ziyuan> the whole thing breaks
[15:52] <smarter> fill a bug report
[15:53] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: you have a fresh install of kubuntu and you can see scim in right-click menu?
[15:53] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: yes
[15:53] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: but if you type "wo" can you see the candidate window?
[15:53] <smarter> wo
[15:54] <yao_ziyuan> you should see a candidate window containing a list of chinese strings as in http://infowire.googlegroups.com/web/ubuntu-kde.png?gda=bA2SCD8AAADWsl4Y8OducPseo6poK2clUCs6sGOtvEZ8vKsw5JO8ImG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDRbc336TSoxjX0fZc4FmgOo
[15:55] <yao_ziyuan> or more simply,
[15:55] <yao_ziyuan> if you type "wo",
[15:55] <yao_ziyuan> and a new floating window appears,
[15:55] <yao_ziyuan> you're ok
[15:55] <smarter> type wo where?
[15:55] <yao_ziyuan> in a Kate or KWrite
[15:56] <yao_ziyuan> or Konsole
[15:56] <yao_ziyuan> any K app that has a text box
[15:56] <yao_ziyuan> but not Firefox
[15:56] <yao_ziyuan> Firefox is kinda GTK
[15:58] <yao_ziyuan> i don't think ubuntu also uses that qt-language-selector to install scim
[15:58] <yao_ziyuan> qt is for kde
[15:58] <yao_ziyuan> not for gnome
[15:59] <yao_ziyuan> ubuntu and kubuntu use different ways to install scim
[15:59] <yao_ziyuan> and associated input methods
[15:59] <yao_ziyuan> and kubuntu installs skim as a unnecessary front-end for scim
[15:59] <yao_ziyuan> which further complicates the problem
[15:59] <yao_ziyuan> scim itself has a front-end
[16:01] <Riddell> it uses gtk-language-selector
[16:01] <yao_ziyuan> then that's the difference!
[16:01] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu should use gtk-language-selector as well
[16:01] <blizzzek> hi
[16:02] <buz> kubuntu-alternate 20080220 iso is broken
[16:02] <buz> says kernel modules dont match the kernel
[16:02] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: they're the same code
[16:02] <yao_ziyuan> and make sure kubuntu download all the packages that ubuntu downloads
[16:02] <Riddell> buz: hrm
[16:02] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: something must be different
[16:02] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: yes
[16:03] <yao_ziyuan> actually,
[16:03] <yao_ziyuan> ubuntu, kubuntu, fedora-gnome, fedora-kde,
[16:03] <yao_ziyuan> these 4 distros,
[16:04] <yao_ziyuan> they all have a minimal gnome and a minimal kde
[16:05] <davmor2> Riddell: Jockey only lists nvidia gfx card and not the wifi
[16:06] <Riddell> davmor2: I seem to remember that's still on pitti's todo
[16:06] <davmor2> I'll ask :)
[16:09] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu should reuse as much ubuntu efforts as possible
[16:09] <yao_ziyuan> fedora 8 kde live cd does it this way
[16:10] <Riddell> it does
[16:10] <yao_ziyuan> its core heavily uses gnome apps
[16:10] <Riddell> yuriy: on the other hand, plenty of development opportunity :)
[16:10] <yao_ziyuan> the Network Manager, the SCIM,
[16:10] <yao_ziyuan> the Update Manager, Add/Remove Programs
[16:14] <yao_ziyuan> i see that kubuntu can re-skin all gtk2 apps with the kde theme...
[16:14] <yao_ziyuan> isn't that enough reason to abandon skim?
[16:15] <yao_ziyuan> since you can skin scim as a kde app...
[16:15] <jjesse> stupid question but what does debian use?  does debian use skim?
[16:15] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: gnome-language-selector also leaves me with monospace fonts
[16:16] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: what about reset the fonts to sans serif 8
[16:16] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: still monospaced
[16:17] <yao_ziyuan> then you didn't simulate a pure ubuntu procedure...
[16:19] <yao_ziyuan> or your distro is dirty now
[16:19] <yao_ziyuan> uninstall all languages but english
[16:19] <yao_ziyuan> set system language to english
[16:19] <yao_ziyuan> restart system
[16:19] <yao_ziyuan> simulate ubuntu's process of installing chinese language support
[16:20] <yao_ziyuan> then install chinese in kubuntu's system settings
[16:20] <smarter> 我
[16:20] <yao_ziyuan> then make sure all fonts are set to Sans Serif 8
[16:20] <smarter> I just installed scim-skim-pinyin
[16:20] <yao_ziyuan> Sans Serif 8 is supposed to display chinese correctly
[16:20] <smarter> then right click -> select input method -> scim
[16:20] <smarter> something popped up
[16:20] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[16:21] <smarter> I typed something
[16:21] <yao_ziyuan> good
[16:21] <smarter> and it looked like chinese ;)
[16:21] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: that simple?
[16:21] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[16:21] <smarter> 个突然
[16:21] <smarter> yes
[16:21] <yao_ziyuan> ...
[16:22] <smarter> 卡外
[16:22] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: you just installed a single package scim-skim-pinyin (and it's depended packages) and you have chinese input now?
[16:22] <smarter> yes
[16:22] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: what about Ctrl+Space?
[16:22] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: can you switch on and off chinese input mode by Ctrl+Space?
[16:22] <smarter> yes
[16:22] <yao_ziyuan> then it's all right
[16:23] <yao_ziyuan> so the conclusion is: a fresh kubuntu, plus scim-skim-pinyin
[16:23] <yao_ziyuan> i don't believe the solution is so simple
[16:23] <smarter> but it is.
[16:23] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: you haven't even installed chinese language support in System Settings, have you?
[16:23] <jpatrick> yao_ziyuan: that's Kubuntu for you :)
[16:23] <smarter> and I'm sure that qt-language-selector would have installed that pinyin thing
[16:23] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: nop
[16:23] <jpatrick> freeflying++
[16:25] <seele> Riddell: does the nightly build have your printing changes in it?
[16:25] <yao_ziyuan> i can't confirm this since i don't have a fresh kubuntu
[16:25] <Riddell> seele: yes, should do
[16:26] <seele> Riddell: kk
[16:26] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: start a new Kate or KWrite, and then directly press Ctrl+Space, and then start typing, can you still make chinese chars?
[16:26] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: i mean, not via the right-click menu
[16:26] <jpatrick> bddebian: http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2008/02/msg00487.html - I was working on a kguitar package :)
[16:27] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: and you use kubuntu 7.10?
[16:27] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: I'm on kubuntu 8.04
[16:27] <Riddell> seele: it's full of bugs and obvious problems still (including usability problems)
[16:27] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: no, and I don't have the option in the right click menu of Kate
[16:27] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: hardy alpha 4?
[16:27] <jpatrick> bddebian: in fact I packaged the new upstream release, the DD's didn't take it
[16:27] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: latest update
[16:28] <bddebian> jpatrick: Why?
[16:28] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: you can't type chinese by ctrl+space now?
[16:28] <smarter> but as far as I can remember I always could choose scim
[16:28] <smarter> not in kate
[16:28] <smarter> but I can with Konversation
[16:28] <jpatrick> bddebian: "please relibtoolize"
[16:28] <yao_ziyuan> then it's not perfect still
[16:28] <bddebian> jpatrick: Ah, really? :)
[16:29] <jpatrick> bddebian: and I tried everything I know and nothing worked for the debian-qt-kde guys
[16:29] <yao_ziyuan> even the ubuntu-assisted way of installing scim is not perfect, since it doesn't install a tray icon in kde
[16:30] <yao_ziyuan> what i wanted to say was,
[16:30] <yao_ziyuan> since every distro has a basic gnome and a basic kde,
[16:31] <yao_ziyuan> kubuntu should remake itself in this way:
[16:31] <yao_ziyuan> take ubuntu,
[16:31] <yao_ziyuan> remove all unnecessary gnome apps
[16:31] <yao_ziyuan> but keep the system settings ones
[16:32] <yao_ziyuan> like System -> Administration -> Language Support
[16:32] <yao_ziyuan> i.e. let gnome apps manage system settings
[16:33] <yao_ziyuan> then add k apps as accessories
[16:33] <yao_ziyuan> this is exactly fedora's way
[16:33] <yuriy> feel free to start your own distro with that idea :o
[16:33] <Riddell> as I've said multiple times we do use the same language-selector
[16:33] <yao_ziyuan> do not let k apps manage the system configuration
[16:33] <yao_ziyuan> they suck in this aspect
[16:34] <yao_ziyuan> and since kubuntu can skin gtk2 apps with kde theme,
[16:34] <yao_ziyuan> i don't see a reason why you can't let g apps manage the system settings
[16:35]  * DaSkreech waves at smarter and seele
[16:35] <jpatrick> DaSkreech: :(
[16:35] <smarter> o/ DaSkreech
[16:35]  * DaSkreech hugs jpatrick
[16:35] <yao_ziyuan> thus spake yao_ziyuan:
[16:35] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: missing input method choice in kate is a known bug: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95869
[16:36] <ubotu> KDE bug 95869 in kwrite "Missing Select input method in kwrite and kate" [Wishlist,Unconfirmed]
[16:36] <yao_ziyuan> thy shall never conquer east asia
[16:36] <yao_ziyuan> until thy accept my advice
[16:37] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: yes, true, i don't see input method menu in kate either
[16:37] <Riddell> buz: new CDs, I think this should solve it http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily/20080220.1/
[16:37] <Riddell> buz: rsync for a faster download
[16:37] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: but i can ctrl+space to invoke an input method to type chinese in kate
[16:38] <davmor2> Riddell: new cd's already you do supprise me :)
[16:38] <Riddell> davmor2: only alternate ones
[16:39] <bddebian> jpatrick: Well I guess we'll see what happens :)
[16:40] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: you have some wrong conceptions
[16:40] <jpatrick> bddebian: just don't let pusling see that mail
[16:41] <Riddell> yao_ziyuan: as do you :)
[16:41] <yao_ziyuan> Riddell: from its name, i think "qt-language-selector" or "gtk-language-selector" doesn't do everything
[16:43] <Riddell> mostly they run im-switch
[16:44] <smarter> yao_ziyuan: I found how to use scim with kate
[16:44] <smarter> I just launched kate with QT_IM_MODULE=scim kate
[16:45] <smarter> it also works in firefox with GTK_IM_MODULE=scim firefox
[16:45] <smarter> and that's all
[16:45] <yao_ziyuan> yes
[16:45] <yao_ziyuan> these 2 lines are in most tutorials for chinese users to manually set up scim
[16:46] <yao_ziyuan> but i still suggest,
[16:46] <yao_ziyuan> that kubuntu let ubuntu apps manage system settings
[16:46] <yao_ziyuan> including language stuff
[16:46] <smarter> I don't see why
[16:46] <smarter> it works perfectly fine
[16:46] <smarter> and I don't want gtk libs on my system
[16:46] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: then, ok, convert your knowledge to a patch
[16:47] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: fix kubuntu's chinese input problem with your experience :)
[16:47] <smarter> I may try :P
[16:48] <smarter> let see what this qt-language-selector-option do...
[16:48] <yao_ziyuan> also, it would be nice if there is a scim or skim icon on the tray area
[16:48] <smarter> there's one when I right click -> select input method -> scim
[16:48] <yao_ziyuan> which is an alternative way to activate an input method, than using ctrl+space
[16:49] <yao_ziyuan> smarter: the icon should be always there, regardless whether an input method is activated
[16:49] <yao_ziyuan> the icon is used to select an input method from a list of all available input methods
[16:49] <jpatrick> where's dear apachelogger?
[16:50] <emonkey> dunno ask Nightrose ... *stups*
[16:51] <Nightrose> jpatrick: dunno - he is online in jabber - not sure he is at his pc - want me to ping him?
[16:51] <yao_ziyuan> a dream kde-based distro should look like this (fedora 8 kde live cd installed to hard disk): http://infowire.googlegroups.com/web/fedora8.png?gda=YM5Y1TwAAADWsl4Y8OducPseo6poK2cl_1-QJ7zXPc4a95G-J9TtMWG1qiJ7UbTIup-M2XPURDTzV980_yfTP0F2XnxqzJt2
[16:51] <yao_ziyuan> note the "keyboard" icon in the tray area
[16:51] <yao_ziyuan> that's the SCIM icon
[16:52] <yao_ziyuan> left-clicking it will show a list of input methods
[16:53] <yao_ziyuan> i don't know how fedora adds scim to the kde taskbar
[16:53] <yao_ziyuan> maybe as an "applet"
[16:54] <yao_ziyuan> that's all for today. i believe you guys will soon finish this
[16:56] <coreymon77> hi everyone
[16:56] <jpatrick> Nightrose: just wanted to tell him I've forwarded his kgrubeditor package to the Debian guys
[16:57] <Nightrose> jpatrick: sorry got disconnected - if you answered please repeat
[16:57] <Nightrose> jpatrick: ah ok - so no need to ping him?
[16:57] <jpatrick> no thanks :)
[16:58] <coreymon77> anyways
[16:58] <Nightrose> ok ;-)
[16:58] <coreymon77> so the meeting is at 6 huh??
[16:59] <coreymon77> hello?
[16:59] <jpatrick> coreymon77: yep
[16:59] <coreymon77> okay
[17:00] <coreymon77> i should be able to actually make this one
[17:00] <coreymon77> although
[17:00] <coreymon77> i usually eat dinner at 6
[17:00] <coreymon77> so i might be a little late
[17:00] <coreymon77> jpatrick: how long do the meetings usually go for
[17:01] <jpatrick> coreymon77: 30 minutes -> 1 hour, depends on the agenda
[17:01] <coreymon77> okau
[17:02] <smarter> this guy was right, ticking "Enable support to enter complex characters" in qt-language-selector doesn't work
[17:02] <smarter> python crashes
[17:02] <smarter> "UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 37-38: ordinal not in range(128)"
[17:05] <DaSkreech> hunger: ping
[17:12] <yuriy> oh yuck what's with planet.u.c mangling wordpress titles
[17:12] <yuriy> i thought only planetkde did that
[17:14] <DaSkreech> I think chani figured out a way to stop it doing that
[17:15] <yuriy> i don't think i've seen it on planet ubuntu before though
[17:17] <yuriy> hmm looks like she did, doesn't say how though
[17:18] <DaSkreech> Check her earlier posts from I think late last week
[17:19] <hunger> DaSkreech: pong.
[17:19] <DaSkreech> hunger: Hey ya
[17:19] <DaSkreech> can decibel make connection tunnels?
[17:19] <hunger> DaSkreech: ho. What can I do for you?
[17:20] <hunger> DaSkreech: Dunno.
[17:20] <hunger> DaSkreech: It should if telepathy supports it.
[17:20] <DaSkreech> Hmm ok
[17:20] <DaSkreech> I'm looking at the jaiku plasma applet and trying to be lazy
[17:20] <hunger> jaiku applet?
[17:20] <DaSkreech>  they have a way of talking to a jabber server and sending commands
[17:22] <DaSkreech> hunger: You know the twitter applet?
[17:23] <hunger> DaSkreech: nope. I tend to not know applets.
[17:23] <DaSkreech> well just know that it's cool :)
[17:23] <DaSkreech> I guess I'll use the API instead
[17:23] <DaSkreech> I'll look at having the decibel method as a bcakup
[17:25] <hunger> grundleborg has writen a decibel dataservice for plasmoids. It gives access to account info AFAIK.
[17:26] <hunger> DaSkreech: That might be useful (or maybe not;-)
[17:26] <DaSkreech> Well I'll try and actually think it out later.
[17:26] <yuriy> DaSkreech: according to her post clee fixed it on planetkde
[17:26] <DaSkreech> Lots of back and forth on the mailing list  :)
[17:26] <DaSkreech> yuriy: Ah ok
[17:26] <nixternal> jeesh, sabdfl is releasing the next releases code name already
[17:27] <DaSkreech> nixternal: I guessed Incontinent Ibex
[17:27] <DaSkreech> hunger: Nice to see Matt compiling it :)
[17:27] <nixternal> it isn't no fun when you name it this early
[17:27] <nixternal> isn't no == double negative! it isn't any fun***
[17:28] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Lets see if it sends Digg nuts again
[17:28] <DaSkreech> Don't use no Double negatives nixternal!!
[17:33] <Nightrose> jpatrick: there is apache|mobile for you ;-)
[17:34] <DaSkreech> hunger: How many apps link into it now?
[17:34] <jpatrick> apache|mobile: kgrubeditor shown to Debian devs..
[17:34] <hunger> DaSkreech: KCall, nothing else that I am aware of.
[17:35] <DaSkreech> hunger: What's this with akonadi. What's the issue of querying decibel?
[17:35] <jpatrick> now comes teh Spanish inquistion: "< pusling> and how does it interact with update-grub ?" ;)
[17:35] <smarter> ²$$
[17:35] <smarter> woops
[17:38] <apache|mobile> jpatrick: not at all
[17:42] <bddebian> jpatrick: It just got uploaded. ;-)
[17:43] <jpatrick> bddebian: whichh?
[17:43] <bddebian> kguitar
[17:44] <jpatrick> which version*
[17:44] <bddebian> Oh
[17:44] <bddebian> Oh, just 0.5-3, sorry
[17:45] <bddebian> Hmm, I guess I didn't look at the new upstream
[17:48] <jpatrick> bddebian: upstream makrs the new release as a "major  bug fix relesase" :)
[17:49] <jpatrick> bddebian: I can give you what a have of a source package to work on
[17:50] <nixternal> did k-d-s also get uploaded for Gutsy that broke the KDE 4 stuff? If so, someone needs to update the Gutsy package
[17:51] <nixternal> bug 193498
[17:51] <nixternal> bug #193498
[17:51] <nixternal> stupid bot is broke
[17:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193498 in meta-kde4 "KDE4 programs won't start" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193498
[17:51] <nixternal> there you go
[17:52] <smarter> qt-language-selector is seriously broken
[17:52] <smarter> yay for unicode weirdness
[17:56] <DaSkreech> hunger_t: Doesn't Decibel save last seen data?
[17:57] <DaSkreech> Aww cmon
[18:18] <yuriy> sebas: thanks for your fix.
[18:18] <yuriy> sebas: will you be around today for hug day? (supposed to be for power management applet)
[18:18] <yuriy> s/today/tomorrow
[18:19] <yuriy> i mean, in case people are actually working on it so they can ask questions
[18:25] <buz> hmm ubiquity seems kinda confused by luks partitions
[18:26] <buz> its claiming it has -2900MB and wants to use it as ext3
[18:26] <buz> (but does not plan to format it)
[18:32] <buz> how come todays livecd claims to run kde3.5.9
[18:33] <Riddell> well..
[18:35] <Riddell> guess :)
[18:36] <Riddell> smarter: what's wrong with it?
[18:36] <smarter> Riddell: I got UnicodeDecodeError
[18:36] <smarter> I fixed them
[18:37] <smarter> but I can't install some languages because the name of the language contains accents
[18:37] <davmor2> Riddell: why is wine under office in add/remove?
[18:37] <smarter> when they are translated to french
[18:37] <buz> but first things first, it actually works
[18:37] <buz> (unlike the alternate one)
[18:37] <smarter> and qt-language-selector use the name displayed to install the language
[18:37] <Riddell> buz: did you try the new alternate one?
[18:38] <smarter> So I get errors like: "ERROR: can not find new_locale: 'FranÃ§ais (France)'"
[18:38] <buz> tried 20080220 as of 1700 GMT
[18:38] <smarter> I'm trying to fix them
[18:39] <davmor2> Riddell: I'll try them as soon as they have finished rsyncing
[18:39] <buz> anyway i will reboot and come back
[18:41] <Riddell> davmor2: it's set in /usr/share/app-install/desktop/wine.desktop
[18:41] <Riddell> which will come from the wine package
[18:41] <Riddell> so probably just upstream's decision
[18:42] <Riddell> buz: there's a 20080220.1 alternate which should fix i
[18:42] <davmor2> Riddell: ah okay I suppose if it is mostly used for Office 2xxx then that could be why
[18:42] <buz> Riddell: will try in virtualbox
[18:42] <Riddell> buz: thanks
[18:43] <davmor2> Riddell: I'll try out on h/w as soon as it is rsynced
[18:45] <Riddell> davmor2: thanks too :)
[18:46] <smarter> Riddell: fixed!
[18:47] <smarter> no more accents problems
[18:47] <smarter> should I fill a bug with my patch?
[18:47] <Riddell> smarter: ooh?
[18:47] <Riddell> smarter: you can yes
[18:47] <Riddell> smarter: or you can do a branch and tell us to merge it
[18:47] <Riddell> whatever is easiest
[18:47] <smarter> ok
[18:47] <smarter> still some things to fix
[18:52] <nixternal> Riddell: I am almost done with the ubiquity proxy stuff...I am working through a couple of tests and I should be finished...I think all I have left to fix is a textChanged() to setEnabled() on the spinbox
[18:52] <Riddell> nixternal: cool!
[18:53] <nixternal> I don't have a proxy set so it is kind of hard for me to test it 100% though
[18:53] <nixternal> but it is pretty much the qt version of what Collin did
[18:53] <nixternal> right now I am trying to find some upstream kde4 bugs to link against on my 5-a-day
[18:57]  * buz curses the alsa devs
[18:58] <buz> quite clearly they hate my soundcard
[19:02] <buz> i wonder if its a good or a bad sign if downloading the updates is faster than installing them
[19:14] <mhb> hi folks
[19:15] <jpatrick> hi mhb
[19:20] <buz> reinstalling hardy seems to helped
[19:20] <buz> at least my kopete icons are back :P
[19:28] <buz> note to self: stop copying .kde to .kde4 :P
[19:33] <uga> buz: at some point we'll have kde3 to kde4 import tools?
[19:33] <buz> realistically, right now you want to copy over kwallet and kopete
[19:33] <buz> maybe even want to symlink kwallet
[19:34] <buz> magically, the system seems much faster now
[19:34] <uga> I'm thinking about korganizer, kmail and quite a few other apps
[19:34] <buz> right now we dont have those in kde4 so its hard to say
[19:34] <buz> kopete seems to work with simply copying over the old files
[19:35] <uga> oups, sorry, wrong chan. I was thinking I was in kde-devel ;)
[19:35] <uga> buz: svn here
[19:35] <davmor2> Riddell: any preference on which kub alt (32/64) you want testing?
[19:35] <buz> oh yeah i was about to test that
[19:36] <buz> i'll test 32 in virtualbo
[19:36] <buz> x
[19:36] <davmor2> buz: okay I'll start with 64bit then
[19:36] <buz> i dont think i can even try 64bit in vbox on a 32bit host right
[19:37] <davmor2> buz correct
[19:41] <sebas> yuriy: Unlikely, I'm pretty busy these days
[19:41] <sebas> I've got like 60 emails in my guidance inbox alone that need going through and harvesting patches
[19:55]  * buz wished someone would port domino to kde4 or oxygen to kde3
[19:55] <jpatrick> buz: in process (according to the kde-look page, checked today)
[19:55] <buz> which way
[19:56] <jpatrick> oh, domino to kde4
[19:56] <buz> neat
[19:56] <buz> i dont care much either way, it just has to match
[19:58] <buz> for the time being some color fiddling may do
[20:00] <buz> Riddell: alternate-20080220.1 seems to work
[20:00] <buz> in virtualbox anyway
[20:00] <buz> that is for 32bit
[20:01] <davmor2> 64bit just finishing burning
[20:08] <Riddell> buz: great
[20:09] <jpatrick> oh my god, Canonical saids documents in Application/MSWORD format..
[20:10] <Riddell> meh, is what happens when taking on experienced staff, they bring bad habits :)
[20:10] <jpatrick> (in)experienced?
[20:11] <jjesse> nice
[20:12] <Riddell> jpatrick: UDS invitation?
[20:13] <jjesse> the travel one correct
[20:13] <Riddell> oh that's from the travel agency
[20:13] <jpatrick> Riddell: ah, ok, phew
[20:14]  * jpatrick considers getting asking someone to install Ubuntu on their computers
[20:21] <jjesse> what is everyone thoughts on an upgrade from 7.10 to 8.04?  is it pretty safe now?  any problems with upgrading from kde4 on gutsy to hardy?
[20:21] <Riddell> never tried it
[20:21] <jjesse> safest way through apt-get dist-upgrade or safter way?
[20:34] <nareshov> jjesse: I did an upgrade from gutsy to hardy with kde4 a couple of days ago
[20:35] <nareshov> first, you need to get rid of /etc/kde4rc. And when I did it apt-python or something similar was broken, the update to that has come, so shouldn't be a problem now.
[20:48] <jjesse> nareshov: how did it go?  did you just change the source list and do a dist-upgrade?
[20:56] <davmor2> Riddell: 64bit alt wont let you use a weak password for encrypted lvm even when you tell it too it just locks up.
[20:59] <davmor2> buz: can you check encrypted lvm and type in a 6 digit password.  See if it carries on or locks up.
[20:59] <buz> never tried that
[20:59] <buz> but can do
[21:00] <milian> is there a kubuntu package for kblogger kde4 ?
[21:00] <milian> I can't find one and was wondering wether it's inside one of the bigger kde4-packages
[21:01] <davmor2> buz: ta
[21:02] <nixternal> Riddell: I will have a bzr diff for you momentarily with a working Ubiquity KDE w/ Proxy support
[21:02] <mhb> jpatrick: how's it going?
[21:02]  * nixternal twittles thumbs while bzr goes through the stages of a checkout
[21:03] <jpatrick> mhb: not bad, mate, yourself?
[21:03] <mhb> too much school
[21:03] <buz> digits or chars
[21:04] <davmor2> buz: by the way incase you don't know cancel the wipe disc you'll be there all day else
[21:04] <mhb> I wish I had the time for Kubuntu, I have so many "debts"
[21:04] <buz> i was just ognna ask that
[21:05] <davmor2> buz:  either 8 characters is what it recommends so use 6 instead so it throws up the warning message
[21:05] <nareshov> jjesse: no, I used adept
[21:05] <buz> i get past the warning
[21:05] <buz> it formatting now
[21:05] <nixternal> is there any way in which to make bzr any faster? hell, I can check out kde trunk/ before I can check out ubiquity from bzr
[21:05] <ScottK> I quite updating my Hardy install when python-central went south.  Updating today has only 144 updated packages...
[21:05] <jpatrick> mhb: yeah, I have that too. but looking forward to Prague!
[21:06] <buz> davmor2: installing the base system ...
[21:06] <buz> no crash so far
[21:06] <davmor2> buz: right so it might just be a 64bit thing then :) thanks
[21:06] <nareshov> How do I reload KMenu?
[21:06] <nareshov> I uninstalled a bunch of apps and it still shows old entries >_>
[21:06] <buz> what do you mean
[21:06] <buz> mhh
[21:06] <buz> restart kicker?
[21:07]  * nareshov tries
[21:07] <nareshov> kicker isn't running
[21:07] <buz> kde4?
[21:07] <nareshov> ya
[21:07] <buz> mhh may want to restart plasma
[21:08] <nareshov> Good
[21:08] <nareshov> it worked
[21:08] <nareshov> crap, linuxdcpp lost its tray-icon
[21:09] <buz> sometimes kded craps out
[21:09] <buz> other times kde4d
[21:09] <nareshov> hmm
[21:15] <davmor2> Riddell: I got a plain blue background no image.......
[21:29] <davmor2> Riddell: Infact it looks like a default kde install rather than Kubuntu :/
[21:31] <davmor2> Riddell: good news 2 out of 3 worked for the encryption so not a bug
[21:49] <nareshov> How do I limit the number of simultaneous http connections in Konqueror ?
[23:00] <coreymon77> yay
[23:00] <coreymon77> i actually made it to a meeting!
[23:01] <Riddell> hmm?
[23:01] <coreymon77> theres a meeting now isnt there?
[23:02] <Riddell> if people want to meet I suppose there can be
[23:02] <coreymon77> 23:00 utc=6:00 pm est
[23:02] <coreymon77> it says so in the topic
[23:02] <Riddell> so it does