=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: TriLoCo-Midwest Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council
Palintheus@schedule cst02:29
Palintheus@schedule chicago02:30
ubotuSchedule for America/Chicago: 20 Feb 13:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 08:00: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 14:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 06:00: Education Team02:30
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 19:00 UTC: Platform Team | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
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acidburnhello there04:18
acidburnnoones talking... so boring....04:18
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cjwatsongood morning06:55
cjwatsonthe fridge calendar is wrong, apparently; I've poked them about it06:55
calcgood morning06:55
ArneGoetjegood $timeofday06:56
brycegood morning (well, almost)06:56
TheMusoI've not forgotten, just come back from an hour away from the keyboard after my stint today.06:57
bryceTheMuso: perfect timing06:58
TheMusoHey evand.06:58
* asac waves 06:58
TheMusoevand: WHen you have a minute, we need to talk re dmraid. I just read your report.06:58
evandhi TheMuso, good evening to you.06:58
evandTheMuso: sure06:58
cjwatsonok, so first things first, I've noticed that I'm taking a while to get the meeting notes out06:59
cjwatsonwould anyone like to volunteer as a secretary?06:59
cjwatsonit's not particularly hard, I just find it tends to get pushed out of the way by other stuff06:59
TheMusoI'll do it if nobody else has a desire to... (Knowing that his essentially commits me to doing them, but oh well.)07:00
TheMusoI have done a few MOTU meeting minutes, so I know its not hard.07:00
cjwatsonmore than one volunteer means you get to alternate ;-)07:00
TheMusoThere is that yes.07:01
Hobbseeor use mootbot?07:01
cjwatsonmootbot might help but won't suffice; we want something human-edited07:02
TheMusoI don't think mootbot is applicable for these meetings.07:02
TheMusoNo real need.07:02
cjwatsonBTW, though I haven't historically got round to it, the notes should go up on the wiki somewhere as well as being posted to distro-team07:02
cjwatsonTheMuso: ok, thanks for offering, and in that case please go ahead07:03
TheMusocjwatson: Ok. What wiki URL format do we want to use?07:03
TheMusoI.e do we want the minutes udner a particular area in the wiki?07:04
cjwatsondesktop is DesktopTeam/Meeting/YYYYMMDD07:04
cjwatsonso PlatformTeam/Meeting/YYYYMMDD sounds good to me07:04
TheMusofair enough07:04
cjwatson * Actions from last week:07:05
cjwatson  * Arne to consult with Martin and Michael regarding07:05
cjwatson    langpack-o-matic/language-selector work07:05
cjwatsonArneGoetje: I understand Martin's side is done; how is Michael's side going?07:05
ArneGoetjemvo will do it, I guess he was to busy yesterday, but it is on his agenda for these days07:06
cjwatsonok, as long as it hasn't fallen off07:06
cjwatson  * Chris to check whether en_GB strings where msgid == msgstr have07:06
cjwatson    been stripped out of the English langpacks07:06
ArneGoetjenope, it hasn't. I'll keep you posted07:06
cjwatsoncalc: you mentioned something about this last night; any further progress?07:07
calccjwatson: hadn't had a chance to talk to doko about it yet, been beating on the xulrunner stuff most of the day07:07
calccjwatson: i emailed him but i don't know if he read it yet07:07
calcdoko_: i seem to recall you mentioning before if we strip out messages it causes problems with OOo is that the case for cjwatson is talking about here?07:08
cjwatsondoko_: are you in fact here?07:11
cjwatsonok, I think doko is present in body but not in spirit07:11
cjwatsonlet's move on and we can come back to that if he appears07:12
cjwatson * LTS point release team07:12
calcok, well i think he had said before that it causes crashes, but i may be misrembering and i'll try to find out for certain asap07:12
cjwatsoncalc: indeed, this ought to be subject to experimental verification once you get a chance07:12
cjwatsonso, as I think has been mentioned, we're going to be doing point releases of 8.04, as an LTS07:13
cjwatsonand we would like to put enough resources into that to make it pretty respectable, without burning people out who are already focusing on 8.10 development07:14
asacmost likely in the middle of the server support cycle? (e.g. 2.5 years?)07:14
cjwatsonasac: more frequently than that; the first point release is likely to be a few months out from 8.04 itself07:14
cjwatsonI don't want to go into an exact schedule since this is a public channel and we haven't settled on it yet, and rumours do tend to spread :-)07:15
TheMusocjwatson: Will it be similar to 6.06.2, where it will only be for servers, and not desktops? Or does that depend on what has been fixed?07:15
asaccjwatson: ok07:15
cjwatsonTheMuso: in this case it'll be both07:15
cjwatson6.06.2 was just servers because desktops were starting to look not worth the effort given the support lifetime07:16
TheMusoYeah I thought thatwas the case.07:16
cjwatsonbut, in this case, it's a question of keeping a few desktop guys focused on 8.04 when they would ordinarily have switched over07:16
asaclike catching up on features that didn't make the real release?07:16
cjwatsonthe current agreement is for Steve to lead this effort, and have a virtual team of a few platform, a few desktop, a few server, a few QA07:17
cjwatsonasac: I think catching up on bug-fixing is more likely07:17
cjwatsonthis is, essentially, a stabilisation effort07:17
evandare we really large enough to lose that many people to such an effort without feature development in the next release seriously suffering?07:17
cjwatsonfeature development in 8.10 will likely take some kind of a hit, yes07:18
cjwatsonalthough I don't think it will be a critical one07:18
cjwatsonthis is sort of similar in some ways to what we did with the 6.06 delay and its effect on 6.10, but hopefully a bit less severe07:19
cjwatsonwhile 6.10 didn't open until June, 8.10 will open in April or early May as usual, and everyone who isn't still focused on 8.04 will be able to get it up and running07:19
cjwatson8.04 is more important in many ways, though, and there is growing consensus that we need to be able to deliver stable and timely point releases of LTSes, rather than it being a side effort07:20
cjwatsonso what I want to do here is both explain what's happening and answer questions on it, and also look for the right people to take part in this from this group07:21
cjwatsonmy feeling is that it should be the people who would be most snowed under with SRU work anyway07:22
cjwatsonand also people with a capacity to field general platformish bugs from all over, which QA will be hunting down07:23
cjwatsondeafening silence :-)07:24
Hobbseeyou scared them all off!07:25
ArneGoetjewell, I don't fit the criteria... :)07:26
cjwatsonbryce: I suspect we may need somebody able to field X problems, for instance07:26
brycecjwatson: sure thing07:26
cjwatsonok, I think I will select people over the next week or two and talk with you about it07:26
cjwatsonbut if you feel you are particularly appropriate or inappropriate for the task, please shout07:27
cjwatson * Routines post-FF07:27
TheMusoI think I'd probably be inappropriate only because there is a lot of a11y stuff happening next cycle, and we need to keep on top of it, however, if I'm asked, I'll consider it.07:28
cjwatsonTheMuso: *nod*, thanks07:28
cjwatsonthis is perhaps obvious to old-timers, but I just wanted to sketch out the routine from here to 8.04 so that everyone is clear on what we're expected to be doing from here on07:29
cjwatsonwith the exception of a few ... exceptions, features should be complete, although I expect that many of them may still need to have their bugs shaken out07:29
cjwatsonfor anything non-trivial, please go to special effort to gather explicit testing, and fill out the testing plan section on the wiki specification07:30
cjwatsonother than that, we should be in full steam for fixing as many bugs as we can for hardy, and making it a great stable release07:30
cjwatsonLeann has prepared a qa-hardy bug list just for us, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/platform-buglist.html07:31
* TheMuso bookmarks07:31
cjwatsonif you have things on that, please either talk to me or her about untagging them (there's at least one infeasible grub bug I need to get untagged), or fix them at your earliest convenience07:32
cjwatsonplease also make sure you are adequately kept informed of new bugs coming in, and make sure to be responsive to them07:33
asacthe firefox bugs don't make much sense ;) ... we should untag them all07:33
cjwatsoneven those you can't fix should get an update and forwarded upstream where appropriate07:33
asaci will talk with lean to figure the real bugs07:33
cjwatsonasac: thanks07:33
brycecjwatson: regarding feature exceptions, I'd like to talk with you about the xrandr configuration gui - RedHat is working on a tool which will be going upstream, and I'd like your direction about adopting and polishing that.  Or perhaps since we're past FF, other options I should take.07:34
cjwatsonasac: looks like she was trying to gather the most-duplicates crash reports07:34
cjwatsonbryce: yep, was going to come to that shortly07:34
bryceok cool07:34
cjwatsonin order to be kept informed of new bugs and new comments on existing bugs, Launchpad really isn't quite up to providing the sort of feed-type information you'd need to do this entirely with the web UI yet, and so it's important that you become friends with bugmail if you aren't already07:35
cjwatsonpitti wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFilter which may be helpful in dealing with the flood07:35
TheMusoX-Launchpad-Message-Rationale is a useful filter.07:36
* TheMuso uses that for all bugmail that doesn't go to an ML.07:36
cjwatsonbryce: ok07:39
cjwatsonbryce: my concern on your question is that I thought you were already some way into your UI, and were nearing feature-completion07:39
brycethe UI is pretty well done, and I have been working on the application of the xrandr changes.07:40
bryceI estimate being about a week from having it feature complete, however the redhat tool is more likely to be accepted upstream07:42
cjwatsonwhat's the current state of the RH tool?07:42
bryceit is functional and feature complete except for a couple minor things, but needs integration / packaging work done to it, and the UI needs a few tweaks07:43
bryceI dug through it and experimented with it a bit over the weekend, and it looks pretty well thought out.  It does need polish though.07:43
cjwatsonI assume you only became aware of it over the last week? :-)07:44
brycecorrect; I learned about it wednesday07:44
cjwatsonis the reason that RH's tool is more likely to go upstream that it is being written by existing core X developers?07:45
bryceit came to light after I proposed what I was working on to the gnome-control-center list (whose archives I'd dug through before starting my effort)07:45
bryceThe RH person working on it has been involved in gnome-control-center in the past, and I gather had discussed this with some of the gnome folks at a conference a while ago07:46
cjwatsonhard choice07:48
cjwatsonit sounds like the best plan is to grab desktop team folks and talk about the best way to get the RH work integrated ASAP; if possible, perhaps even for alpha 507:49
cjwatson(though that's very close now)07:49
bryceother options I've thought about include just setting it aside for now, and fixing up displayconfig-gtk best we can, or even just dropping gui config and sticking with the command line solutions07:49
cjwatsonbut keep your existing work around in case we need to fall back to that07:49
* bryce nods07:49
cjwatsonwe'd already decided against displayconfig-gtk, I thought, and I don't think a command-line solution is good enough07:50
cjwatsonit is unfortunate that it's one more thing that the /. crowd can complain came from RH rather than Canonical ... but so it goes07:50
bryceyep, I was really looking forward to putting something from canonical upstream but I really get the sense it's not going to be an option here.07:52
cjwatsonbryce: definitely grab seb128 and talk through it with him07:52
brycegreat, thanks, will do.07:52
cjwatsonany other business?07:52
asacmaybe can take care that the previous meeting minutes go to wiki/public as well?07:53
cjwatsonI can do that over time, though I will have to check that I didn't put anything confidential in them07:54
evand * What's the status of the pycentral issue?  We haven't had a new live07:54
evandfilesystem since the 9th.07:54
asaccjwatson: ok07:54
cjwatsonpycentral only came up yesterday; I thought Michael fixed it yesterday too?07:54
ograevand, fixed07:54
ogramy dist-upgrade just went through like a breeze07:55
TheMusoI updated during today to find it fixed.07:55
cjwatsonbug 192992 is still Confirmed07:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192992 in python-central "[hardy] pycentral crashed with ValueError in parse_versions()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19299207:55
slangasekis it fixed?  the bug is listed as open07:55
ograi dont think mvo added any LP entries to his changelog07:55
evandah, we still seem to have trouble with the following though:07:55
ograso need to be closed manually07:55
evand ssl-cert07:55
evand cupsys07:55
evand cupsys-driver-gutenprint07:55
evand hal-cups-utils07:55
evand ubuntu-desktop07:55
evandnot saying that's related to pycentral though07:55
evandfrom: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/hardy/ubuntu/20080220/livecd-20080220-amd64.out07:55
ogracupsys is likely java related07:55
evand(that's from an hour or two ago)07:56
ograand desktop is because of cupsys indeed07:56
slangasekogra: ok; it was fixed in a python-central upload though, right?07:56
ograslangasek, yep07:56
ogramvo isnt around yet i think thats the reason he didnt close it yet (wanting feedback first)07:56
cjwatsonogra: cupsys fails because it depends on ssl-cert which fails07:57
cjwatson(read the log :-))07:57
ograwell, i was guessing :)07:57
slangasekok, good to hear it's fixed then, that means I'll be able to get to sleep sooner tonight :)07:57
cjwatsonssl-cert looks like it's failing because hostname says "Unknown host"07:57
slangasekoh ugh, that'd be my bug then07:57
ograyeah, seems the network connection on the buildds sucks ... :) i just learned that with edubuntu-addon-meta :)07:57
slangasekcjwatson: the only change is hostname -> hostname -f; why does the one work and the other fail in the livefs build env?07:57
slangasek(hmm, we can take that out of the meeting)07:58
cjwatsonwe do need to get new live filesystems today, but that's obvious :)07:58
cjwatsonok, if that's all, then we'll adjourn07:58
cjwatsonthanks all07:58
calcgoodnight everyone :-)07:58
TheMusoNp, minutes may either be tongiht my time, but certainly tomorrow.07:58
TheMusomy time07:59
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=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 20:00 UTC: Education Team | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 27 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
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ubuntuwestbengalis there anyone here from the community council?17:26
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* ogasawara waves18:59
* stgraber waves19:00
henohey everyone!19:01
henolet's start19:01
MootBotMeeting started at 19:01. The chair is heno.19:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]19:01
henoagenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings19:01
heno[TOPIC] qa-hardy-list promotion19:02
MootBotNew Topic:  qa-hardy-list promotion19:02
henoogasawara: thanks for splitting that up. I've emailed various lists about it and will attend IRC meetings to follow up19:03
henoI don't think that needs discussion19:03
heno[TOPIC] QA poll site beta testing19:03
MootBotNew Topic:  QA poll site beta testing19:03
nandhi! sorry, a bit late19:03
henonand: just getting to your topic19:04
bdmurrayheno: Do you promotion in terms of advertising?19:04
nandperfect timing :)19:04
nandheno: some news on the subdomains?19:04
henobdmurray: yes19:04
henonand: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ ...19:04
nandit's up?19:05
henobdmurray: any further ides on that?19:05
henonand: yes19:05
bdmurrayheno: no, I was thinking of promotion as "escalation" not promoting19:05
henobut I guess it needs some drupal magic19:05
stgraberhmm, cookie seems broken on brainstorm.ubuntu.com19:05
stgrabernand: the cookie thing I told you about ^^19:06
bdmurrayI'm all set now though19:06
henook, cool19:06
nandnice! Tomorrow, we'll update the htaccess and sql updates19:06
nandstgraber: yes, I guess we will have to do with it19:06
nandThat will give us a short time to test19:07
henoshould we devise a test plan for the site? (everyone here add 3 ideas and 3 bugs or something)19:07
stgrabernand: well, as it's now I just can't login on brainstorm.u.c, so I'll have to update the cookie part of the config file to fix that19:07
henojust asking 'please test' doesn't seem to be working19:07
stgraberindeed :)19:08
nandyes, let's ask everyone to add a few bugs/ideas, at least to have some pagination19:08
henook, hands up all who volunteer to add 3 items to each site and do some voting and poking around19:09
nandwhat a crowd today :)19:10
heno[... silence ...]19:10
nandok, I'll flood it myself...19:10
ogasawaraI'll try to do some testing19:10
davmor2I can o/19:10
henoit should take about 7 minutes :)19:10
nandheno: do you want to know right now the planned release date, to coordinate and such?19:11
stgrabernand: did you switch to GET instead of POST for the ajax stuff in your next commit ? (I'm not sure it'll fix my PROXY bug but it's worth a try and shouldn't cause any regression)19:11
henodoes everyone have access to the beta?19:11
stgraberif everyone means people speaking in this chan, then yes19:11
nandstgraber: not yet. I'll try tonight19:12
henook, cool19:12
stgraberI was thinking of Thursday the 28th as a release date19:12
pedro_stgraber: I've logged in and it doesn't work here, I've got a cute 403 again19:12
stgraberpedro_: use qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas and qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs instead19:13
davmor2stgraber: I can't log in either as above19:13
stgraberpedro_: brainstorm.u.c doesn't work yet19:13
stgraberdavmor2: same as pedro_19:13
nandwait for tomorrow's update19:13
davmor2stgraber: yes19:13
pedro_ok ok19:13
nand28th : we can try for it19:13
nandmonday we reset everything, remove the restriction19:14
nandthat means everything must be ok friday19:14
davmor2stgraber: ping me when it's safe to test19:14
stgraberI'll be on holiday next week so I should have time to fix last minute stuff for the release19:14
stgraberdavmor2: you can use qa.ubuntu.com, it'll be the same module but with a different URL19:15
henoyeah I just noticed that too. brainstorm.u.c won't work just yet i guess19:15
davmor2stgraber: yes I mean the brainstorm19:15
henobdmurray, ogasawara: please have a quick poke at the bugs part at least http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs/19:15
stgrabernand: IIRC the site config which contains the cookie definition is a php file, so we probably can update the cookie field depending on the URL19:15
stgrabernand: the user will have to login twice anyway19:16
ogasawaraheno: will do19:16
bdmurrayheno: okay19:16
stgraberdavmor2: brainstorm.ubuntu.com will be an alias for http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas19:16
henoabout launch date: I'm happy for nand and stgraber to decide on that19:17
davmor2stgraber: that works :) so you just want a bunch of ideas dropping in there to test it?19:17
stgraberdavmor2: yep19:17
davmor2stgraber: np19:17
* heno looks at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule19:17
henonothing bit happening just after Alpha 519:18
stgraber28th will be the UI/artwork freeze19:18
bdmurrayIsn't it a bit late for ideas since we are past feature freeze?19:18
nandheno: How many days before the release do you want to be warned, for coordination and stuff?19:19
henobdmurray: these would be seed ideas for the next UDS19:19
nandbdmurray: of course, it's ideas for hardy+1 :)19:19
davmor2bdmurray: it can be like the one I am currently writing an on going idea :)19:19
bdmurrayOkay, they doesn't seem to be conveyed at qapoll/ideas/19:20
stgraberbdmurray: well, just report those as usability bug then :)19:20
henonand: a day or two is fine for me personally19:20
henoI do want to write some docs explaining the purpose of each site19:21
henocan we have an About link on each?19:21
bdmurrayI think managing people's expectations is important and should happen right at the site.19:21
davmor2stgraber: seems to work fine :)19:21
nandyes, we should. And with some contacts too19:21
henobdmurray: agreed19:22
stgrabernand: I did a quick demo of QA-Poll to one of my teachers this morning and something that was hard to understand/use was the duplicate UI19:22
nandI think instead of the "Ubuntu website" link, we could put a "About" box19:22
nandstgraber: what was confusing?19:23
stgrabernand: IIRC, you can't just select two ideas in the idea list and mark those as duplicates and the link on the idea page was hard to find19:23
henosounds good19:23
henolet's continue the details of that in #u-testing or so19:23
heno[TOPIC] Kernel bug list migration. see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration19:24
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel bug list migration. see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration19:24
nandok, please continue!19:24
henoogasawara and I have been looking at this with the LP folks19:24
henoit's a sensitive issue; automatically modifying lots of bugs19:25
henothe transition to a new package name is a good time to do it though19:25
henopedro_: have you been doing the gaim -> pidgin migration? any fall-out from that?19:26
ogasawaraheno:  I think as long as we are clear to our bug reporters that we are not closing their bugs but rather making sure we're carrying them forward we won't have too much backlash19:26
bdmurrayogasawara: I check with markus regarding adding a task19:26
pedro_heno: it was just for the upstream project and there's like 20 bugs or so, so changing that wouldn't be hard19:27
henoso are we agreed on the approach? add a 'linux' task set to incomplete and set the others to 'Won'f fix'?19:28
pedro_at point 4 of the process which metadata you loss if you change the task from linux-source-something to linux?19:29
pedro_the name of the package?19:29
pedro_can that be resolved with a tag?19:29
henoyeah, what meta data is lost?19:29
bdmurrayI'm concerned about "Won't fix"ing some that may be sru worthy19:30
pedro_because for me it seems that the option 4 is the best one19:30
ogasawarai was concerned about losing the history of a bug being open across multiple releases19:30
henobdmurray: are you worried that they will slip off our radar as well (the won't fix can be changed again)19:30
bdmurrayI seem to recall talking about Ben about that and that is something he didn't want to lose.19:31
bdmurrayheno: I think that 2.6.15 or 2.6.22 bugs that are high or critical should be manually inspected.19:32
henobdmurray: agreed, I assume we can black list those in the script19:32
henoor ust looked at first19:33
henowhen should we move forward with this? do we need a dry run of some kind?19:33
bdmurrayright, either way.19:34
ogasawarawe'll need to investigate the adding new tasks functionality with plb19:34
henook, let's add a todo list to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration19:36
ogasawaraI'll add it19:37
heno* new task functionality, * manually clean up some categories of bugs, * dry run, * live run19:37
henoor so19:37
henook, cool. net topic19:37
henoah, my typing sux today :(19:38
heno[TOPIC] malone buglist - tagging these so they are viewable in Launchpad. see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/malone-buglist.html19:38
MootBotNew Topic:  malone buglist - tagging these so they are viewable in Launchpad. see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/malone-buglist.html19:38
davmor2heno: my typing sucks everyday :)19:38
ogasawaraso mpt was inquiring why we don't just tag the bugs lists here and then use lp to display them19:39
henoI assume we are looking for volunteers here? ;)19:39
ogasawaraI have a script to tag bugs19:39
henoogasawara: right, that's what bjorn wants as well19:39
* heno cheers ogasawara19:39
ogasawaraso can we agree on a tag name?19:39
henolet's JUST DO IT19:39
henosounds good, that lets other teams use ubuntu-desktop etc.19:40
bdmurrayHow could we convey the importance of the bug to us?19:41
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henowe don't do it ATM, apart from the comment column19:43
ogasawarawe could easily just have it as part of the tag for ex - ubuntu-qa-high19:43
henoadding a separate tag or changing it to ubuntu-qa-high both seem like cludgy19:43
bdmurrayActually, I'm not certain how useful that is.19:43
henoogasawara: yeah, but then you have to search on 3 tags19:44
bdmurrayI mean its no different than someone saying I have to have this piece of hardy working.19:44
pedro_does lp allow you to search for more than one tag?19:44
ogasawarapedro_: yup19:44
bdmurraywow, bad typing is contagious.  I meant this piece of hardware19:44
davmor2bdmurray: does this list not pertain to bugs already listed if so wouldn't the bug itself have a rating?19:44
henoperhaps we should just pick out our top 10 and email the list to bjorn19:44
heno... once a week :)19:45
bdmurrayheno: heh19:45
ogasawaradoes the Importance that's already set in the report not properly reflect the priority we think it should be?19:45
henoogasawara: often not; as that's LP's own take on the priority19:46
davmor2ogasawara: That's my point I think.  Just put better :)19:46
henoUbuntu is only one of many users of LP (though by far the biggest ATM)19:46
henocan we use ubuntu-qa + ubuntu-high?19:47
ogasawaraso will us marking our own priority actually get them to resolve it faster?19:47
bdmurrayThinking about it some more I've never seen a definition of how the Launchpad team uses bug Status, but it is probably not the same as we, the Ubuntu distro, use them.19:47
henothat way you avoid the permutations at least19:47
henoand you can get a full ubuntu-qa list easily19:48
bdmurrayI think by shoehorning our priority in there we are setting a bad precedent.19:48
henothat's true19:49
ogasawaraI think we should be no different than any other lp users19:49
ogasawarawe see reports all the time where bug reporters feel their bugs are top priority19:49
henoI think intel do this on some bugs19:49
henowith an intel-high tag19:49
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Education Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 20 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 27 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
ogasawaraheno:  right, they do19:50
henoshall we proceed with just the ubuntu-qa tag and look at social forms of communicating priority first?19:50
henoemail and bug comments19:50
bdmurraythat sounds best to me19:50
ogasawarasounds good19:50
henogood, next topic19:51
heno[TOPIC] yesterday's bugs formatting discussion draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewBugs/2008021919:51
MootBotNew Topic:  yesterday's bugs formatting discussion draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewBugs/2008021919:51
henoare we getting a wiki page for each day?19:52
bdmurraynot yet, I wanted opinions on its utility / formatting19:52
henocould be useful for 5-a-day work19:53
bdmurrayI was thinking having a column for the sourcepackage might be more useful than the Status/Importance19:53
henosomeone might chose to focus on those pages19:53
bdmurrayheno: right, I also though it would be useful in "staying on top" of New bug reports19:53
henoyep Status/Importance is a bit pointless here19:54
bdmurrayof the 170 new yesterday 123 are still New19:54
bdmurraythat's very approximate19:54
ogasawaraI think it'd be helpful to see the package name19:55
henobut some are fix released :)19:55
henohow often is it updated? ever?19:55
ogasawaraI think that's why there is the disclaimer at the top no?19:55
henoit would be very cool to look at a page like this from a month ago19:56
bdmurrayIt isn't updated and the query took about 140 minutes19:56
henowith updated statuses19:56
liw140 minutes? uh...19:57
bdmurrayThere might be a way to optimize how I'm doing it though19:57
pedro_with the new brach? ouch19:57
henobdmurray: that's on your home machine?19:57
henoor in the DC?19:57
bdmurraynope, that's on rookery19:57
henocan we justify running that every day?19:58
bdmurrayOkay, so the answer is it seems quite useful but needs to be faster then.19:58
henobdmurray: let's raise this with kiko; he might have some ideas on that19:59
henowith that we are out of time. there is another meeting after us19:59
MootBotMeeting finished at 20:00.20:00
henothanks all!20:00
* ogra_cmpc is impressed20:01
henoI'll write a summary -- the agenda was a bit late :)20:01
ogra_cmpcon the minute ....20:01
ogra_cmpcare you guys sure youre not german somehow ?20:02
pedro_well i like beer20:02
henoogra_cmpc: just quality-oriented20:02
* RichEd is getting coffee ... and invites mr grawert to drive the meeting tonight20:02
ogra_cmpcwell, lets get started with tech then20:03
ogra_cmpcthe addon cd is there (yay)20:03
ogra_cmpcthere are not many changes to the content yet and it might currently list apps in gnome-app-install that arent there20:04
ogra_cmpci also noticed that we still ship the winfoss software20:04
ogra_cmpc(which currently takes about 200M)20:04
ogra_cmpcwe also have tons of langpacks we dont need on it20:05
ogra_cmpcif we drop all that the actual size left should be around 200 to 250M20:05
ogra_cmpcso plenty space to fill in the future20:06
ogra_cmpcand we didnt actually lose any functionallity20:06
ogra_cmpci didnt do much in ltsp land last week ... digging through some bugs and trying to confirm them ...20:07
ogra_cmpcwe're down to 38 bugs for ltsp atm20:07
ogra_cmpci hope to get the majority cleaned out by release20:08
ogra_cmpcsince ltsp is gone into ubuntu and edubuntu-server doesnt have any other dependencies atm i decided to not build a separate edubuntu-content-server package but to use edubuntu-server for that20:09
ogra_cmpcwell, beyond that, italc and pangosdl still arent in main, that should happen asap20:10
ogra_cmpci hope to have the time for the paperwork during the rest of the week20:11
ogra_cmpcalpha5 is due end of the week, indeed i'd like to see some testing of the new cd20:12
ogra_cmpcwell, thats it so far with reports from my side ....20:12
ogra_cmpcquestions ?20:12
stgraberwell, less bug and a add-on CD what else do you want ? :)20:13
ogra_cmpcmore time :)20:13
stgraberwell, 48h days are something you should spec about :)20:13
ogra_cmpcand hardy out the door so we can actually play with crack again20:13
ogra_cmpcits hard to stay calm ... there is so much cool stuff out there that wants to be developed20:14
ogra_cmpcdamned LTSes20:14
stgraberabout Alpha-5, anything that needs extensive testing ?20:14
stgraberis LTSP in Alternate's boot menu ?20:14
ogra_cmpcnot yet20:14
ogra_cmpcpoping up g-a-i and listing edubuntu-desktop is the main point for alternate20:15
stgraberok, so we'll probably just check that the images aren't broken20:15
ogra_cmpcoh and indeed e-d installability20:15
ogra_cmpcbut i.ll test that tomorrow during the cleanup20:15
ogra_cmpcfor now basic functiuonallity is the most important20:16
ogra_cmpcno, no menu entry yet20:16
ogra_cmpccolin wants me to work into gfboot and do the changes myself so i get familiar with it ...20:16
ogra_cmpcbut gfxboot is a mean beast i'm slightly slow grasping it20:17
stgrabergood luck :) (I once had to add a keyboard in it so I have an idea of how evil is that thing)20:17
ogra_cmpcwell, the addon should have a shiny gfxboot screen telling you in friendly words that you need the main cd first20:17
ogra_cmpcso thats another open issue20:18
stgraberabout iTalc, I haven't received any test result except from Francis (who found a couple of remaining bugs)20:19
stgrabershould we ask for testing on edubuntu-user/-devel ?20:19
ogra_cmpcwe shou.d start a wider call20:19
* ogra_cmpc doesnt see any other tech questions20:22
ogra_cmpc(actually i dont see any other attendees :P)20:23
ogra_cmpcRichEd, your turn ?20:23
RichEdnot much from my side ... just a tired & fried brain :)20:23
RichEdstill working on education web content for the ubuntu web site20:24
RichEdand have also been tasked to do an edubuntu wiki page explaining the name migration20:24
RichEd(calling for comments & opinion)20:24
ogra_cmpcoh, right20:24
RichEd... that's about it20:24
ogra_cmpctell me the final names during the week please20:25
ogra_cmpci'll adjust the iso pages20:25
ogra_cmpcit currently only says "addon"20:25
RichEdwill do so ... the CD naming people need finality by Fri20:25
ogra_cmpcthe iso name will just be hardy-addon-${arch}.iso20:26
ogra_cmpci see no reason to change the filename here20:26
ogra_cmpci was talking about the page headers on releases.u.c and cdimage.u.c20:26
* RichEd nods20:27
ogra_cmpcthe thing the before said "classroom server cd" and "educational addon cd"20:27
ogra_cmpcwell, anyway, sonds like ther is not much more20:28
ogra_cmpcany other business ?20:28
stgraberas I said on #ubuntu-devel, I'll update the QA-Website by Alpha-6 (move the LTSP testcase to Ubuntu Alternate and update the filenames)20:28
RichEdjust one quick comment about the naming ... and opinions from you guys20:28
ogra_cmpcstgraber, thanks a lot20:28
RichEdchris put the word "school" into the mix ...20:28
RichEdi said that that sounded very limited to me compared to education ...20:29
ogra_cmpcto me too20:29
RichEdso his reply was that school to him implied any learning, not just kids20:29
ogra_cmpcthat would have fitted better with the classroom server cd when we had it20:29
RichEdbut in my background / culture we speak of school, or college or varsity20:30
ogra_cmpcnow as an ubuntu addon i dont think we should call it school-something20:30
ogra_cmpcwell, we also speak about software media20:30
RichEdso can i tell him that we, the people, feel that education is preferred over school ?20:30
ogra_cmpcfor me thats true20:30
RichEdso that's ogra for education20:31
RichEdstgraber > same for you ?20:31
RichEdanyone else yay or nay ?20:31
ogra_cmpcschool simply doesnt include university20:31
RichEdso then it is unanimous for "education" and not "school" in the final naming20:32
ogra_cmpcand many areas more where edu software is used20:32
RichEdogra_cmpc: for me i agree ... in some countries, even big people say i'm, off to school20:32
ogra_cmpc\even though i still dont get the reason why oreferably edu software is used in governments/municipalities20:33
stgraberwell, it's probably something that comes from french but "education" looks more like an official/global term than "school"20:33
RichEdIn SA, we definately differentiate the different levels, even in casual conversation20:33
ogra_cmpcthey are enterprise offices ....20:33
RichEdthanks ... i'm done then for tonight20:33
* RichEd looks around to see if anyone else has any matters pending or arising20:34
ogra_cmpcgoing once ?20:34
* ogra_cmpc looks around20:34
ogra_cmpcgoing twice .....20:34
ogra_cmpcthanks "all"20:34
RichEdthanks ogra , stgraber20:37
RichEdand g'night20:37
sommerhey zul20:59
mathiazhello everyone21:00
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 27 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team
mathiazlet's get started for today's meeting !21:00
* Koon lurks in the background21:01
jdstrandhi mathiaz!21:01
jdstrandhi ivoks!21:01
MootBotMeeting started at 21:01. The chair is mathiaz.21:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:01
* nealmcb waves21:01
* nijaba waves21:01
mathiazToday's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting21:01
* ogra_cmpc lurks a bit21:02
mathiaz[TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.21:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.21:02
mathiazPrevious meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/2008021321:02
mathiazI think most of the actions listed have been done or will discussed later in the meeting.21:03
mathiaz[TOPIC] Reporting / role of the meeting21:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Reporting / role of the meeting21:04
mathiazI've noticed that the last two meetings were long21:05
mathiazmore than 1 hour.21:05
mathiazI'd like to keep the meeting under an hour.21:05
mathiazLooking through the logs, I think we're spending a lot of time giving status reports21:05
mathiazThe reason why I'm leading the meeting in that direction is to get reports from everyone21:06
mathiazto know what's been done in the server team21:06
mathiazso that we have something to put in the monthly report21:06
mathiazIt's also a way to keep track of which features have been implemented so that we can put them in the release notes.21:07
mathiazIIRC the IRC meeting of ubuntu-dev ran into the same problem once the team started to grow.21:08
mathiazso I'd like to change how we keep track of what we're doing.21:08
mathiazI'm thinking about sending the agenda whith the reminder of the meeting21:09
sorenYou usually send that out on Tuesdays, right?21:10
mathiazwhith a list of points requiring a status report21:10
mathiazsoren: yes - one day before the meeting21:10
sommer I was just thinking that maybe instead of doing reports at the meeting we could reply to your meetings notes email when action items are complete/updated21:10
sommeror meeting minutes email rather21:11
ivokswe should do that before the meeting, cause issues could arise that would need more heads21:11
nealmcbthe monthly reports show up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports21:11
mathiazsommer: right - but I'd rather take a more proactive approache and ask people about what they're doing.21:12
nijabaI think we could start the meeting with a quick post of the completed action, and see why the ones outstanding are still there...21:12
sommermathiaz: sure, just my thought21:13
mathiazivoks: agreed. I think that having the agenda in the meeting announcement would help.21:13
ivoksbut only reports21:14
mathiazAnother option is to ask people to put their status report in the agenda wiki page before the meeting21:14
ivoksand if someone want to disscuss it, reply to the mail with a request for disscussion21:14
mathiazthis is how the ubuntu dev team was doing21:14
ivoksit would be bad if mailing list turns into the meeting21:14
mathiazivoks: correct.21:15
ivoksmathiaz: i think that would be much better approach21:15
ivokswith the wiki21:15
sommeryep, wiki is a better idea :)21:15
mathiazivoks: that's what the ubuntu dev team used for some time (until it didn't scale any more)21:16
nijabanot there yet, I guess...21:16
mathiaznijaba: for the server team, not there.21:16
sorenubuntu-dev managed until we reached about 30..21:16
sorenSo some day, maybe :)21:17
mathiaznijaba: but we've already reach the point where doing a round table for status report during a meeting isn't practicle anymore21:17
nijabamathiaz: agreed21:17
nijabaand +1 for the wiki proposal21:17
mathiazSo - I'll change the meeting annoucement asking people to update a wiki page with the status of their task21:18
nijabawe just need to find a volunteer to update the wiki with actions from the previous week21:18
mathiazI'll take care of updating the wiki page and nagging people to give a status update.21:19
nijabamathiaz: \o/21:19
mathiazACTION: mathiaz to coordinate status reporting via a wiki page.21:20
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to coordinate status reporting via a wiki page.21:20
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to coordinate status reporting via a wiki page.21:20
* soren hugs mathiaz 21:20
* nijaba hugs mathiaz too21:20
mathiaz[TOPIC] Mentoring program21:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Mentoring program21:20
mathiazSo I've been thinking about the mentoring program again.21:21
mathiazI've got another proposal - I'd like a really lightweight program.21:21
mathiazTo restate, the target population is people that want to contribute to ubuntu but don't know how.21:21
nealmcbor don't know how much fun it is :-)21:22
mathiazSo I'm throwing the idea of having a guidance counselor rather than having a real mentoring program21:22
mathiazthe idea being that potential contributor would get in touch with a member of the ubuntu-server team, they'd figure out how he could help the server team21:23
mathiazaccording to the user's interests, a simple task would be assigned21:23
nealmcbhow about sending ambassadors/recruiters to the loco team meetings on irc?21:24
mathiazand once the task has been completed the prospectiv user is out of the guidance program.21:24
mathiaznealmcb: sure - that's another approach.21:24
mathiaznealmcb: I'd put that in the recruiting effort task.21:24
sorennealmcb: There's a *lot* of LoCo's.21:25
mathiaznealmcb: but I'd rather setup a program to help them getting on board.21:25
nealmcbyup - it precedes what you're sketching out21:25
ivoksok, so... one simple task with guidance21:26
mathiaznealmcb: precedes in terms of workflow, but follows in terms of building the program21:26
ivoksand after that?21:26
mathiazivoks: well - it's up to the user to keep contributing.21:26
mathiazivoks: by the end of the task he should have been in contact with the rest of the team21:26
nealmcbmathiaz: yes - having a structure to help new recruits should precede getting recruits.  soren: yeah.  we could start with locos we have some connections with.  E.g. I've made the pitch at my loco21:27
nealmcbmathiaz: yes21:27
mathiazivoks: and should know where to asks questions.21:27
ivoksi see your point21:27
mathiazSo any thought on this ?21:28
mathiazWhat could be a good name for the program ?21:28
sorennealmcb: I guess that works.21:28
ivoks'Make your self at home'21:28
soren'Make yourself@home' :(21:28
nealmcbivoks: yes - a sense of connection and comfort about asking questions is very helpful21:28
ivokssoren: make21:29
mathiazI thought of Guidance Counselor21:29
nealmcbsoren: it that the singularity approaching nearer?21:29
sorenivoks: :)21:29
nijabamathiaz: sounds like Woopy role in Star Treck TNG21:29
sorennealmcb: :S21:29
sorennijaba: Haha!21:30
sommermathiaz: shouldn't "server" be in there somewhere?21:30
mathiazok. So I'll send an email to ubuntu-server with this new proposal to get some feedback.21:30
nealmcbsoren: looks like an alien/evolved smile to me....21:30
mathiazsommer: yes.21:30
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 27 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team | 27 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team
sommerserver woopy?21:30
mathiaz[ACTION] mathiaz to send a proposal to ubuntu-server about the mentoring program21:31
MootBotACTION received:  mathiaz to send a proposal to ubuntu-server about the mentoring program21:31
mathiazok - that's all from me about the way the server team works and could grow :)21:31
mathiaz[TOPIC] bacula status21:31
MootBotNew Topic:  bacula status21:31
* ivoks steps out, in front of the crew, with tears in his eyes...21:31
sorennealmcb: That's what I was trying to do, so great! :)21:31
ivoksi'm sorry, it took to long, i had to work on some other things in life21:32
mathiazivoks: are you still working on it ?21:32
nijabaivoks: we know you did your best21:32
ivoksbut big part is done and i promise new bacula will be uploaded in 3-4 days21:32
mathiazivoks: we could always to get FF exception21:32
ivokslet's say 99% is done21:32
ivoksi just wanted to clear this sqlite dilema21:33
nealmcbivoks: you've earned some slack many times over :-)21:33
sorenI forget... What's the sqlite problem?21:33
nijabaivoks: that should not be a pb for much longer21:33
ivokssoren: sqlite binary isn't in main, and -sqlite version depends on it21:33
nijabasoren: but I have been talking with doko about it21:34
nijabaand it should not be a real pb21:34
mathiazivoks: before uploading a new bacula in universe, you may wanna get in touch with the MOTU release team21:34
ivoksi've stripped everything else, dbconfig, wxwidgets, qt, libjconv...21:34
sorenivoks: What does bacula need anything but the library for?21:35
nijabasince the only thing missing is the CLI21:35
mathiazivoks: to make sure that the changes you're about to do are ok for FF or get a FF exception.21:35
ivokssoren: it populates sqlite db with binary21:35
ivoksmathiaz: ack21:35
sorenivoks: Ah.21:35
ivokssoren: or upgrades db21:36
ivoksso, any plans to move sqlite to main? :)21:37
mathiaz[ACTION] ivoks will get in touch with the MOTU release team to get an FF exception before uploading bacula to universe21:37
MootBotACTION received:  ivoks will get in touch with the MOTU release team to get an FF exception before uploading bacula to universe21:37
mathiazivoks: it's already done.21:37
mathiazivoks: or will be within a few days.21:37
mathiaz[TOPIC] Server Survey21:37
MootBotNew Topic:  Server Survey21:37
nijabamathiaz: well, should, once a good look has been given to it21:37
sorenThe source is already in main, so it's usually not a problem to move the binary.21:38
mathiaznijaba: could give a quick update the server survey and this lemon thiggy ?21:38
nijabaOk, so Faulkes and I have been working on this survey21:38
nijabathere is a first version running in LimeSurvey21:38
nijabaI need volunteers to test it21:38
zulremind me again whats LimeSurvey?21:39
mathiaznijaba: what is LimeSurver ?21:39
nijabaI already found one bug in Limesurvey on some condition testing21:39
nijabaa tool to produce and conduct survey21:39
nijabaphp based, won the Trophee du Libre this year, enterprise category21:40
mathiaznijaba: is this a web service ?21:40
nijabait is a web app21:40
mathiaznijaba: or an application you need a server to run on ?21:40
mathiaznijaba: where will you host the web app ?21:40
nijabait is on www.nijaba.info21:41
nijababut I do not want to open it to public there21:41
nijabaso I have to issue accounts to volunteers21:41
mathiaznijaba: ok. So where will you host it when doing the "real" survey ?21:41
nijabadiscussing this with newz2000 ATM21:42
nealmcbI'm a little unclear on the audience for the survey and what it is intended to accomplish21:42
mathiaznijaba: it may be interesting to use this tool in the Ubuntu community as a whole.21:42
nijabanealmcb: the goal is to gather as much feedback as possible from or user comunity in order to know what they are expecting from us21:43
nijabamathiaz: agreed21:43
nealmcband e.g. will the results be generally available, or just to the team, or what21:43
nijabanealmcb: I was thinking to follow the same path as alfresco did, but needs to be discussed a bit21:43
nijabanealmcb: not sure if all answers should be made public21:44
nijabanealmcb: http://www.alfresco.com/community/barometer/21:44
nealmcband how to get a good sampling of likely respondents21:44
nijabathat will need some publicity...21:45
nijabaI mean posting in forum, ml, etc...21:45
nealmcbinteresting link - thanks21:45
mathiaznijaba: right.21:45
nealmcbe.g. covering both home/individual users, nonprofits, enterprises, etc21:46
mathiazSo once you've setup a test instance you need to some volunteers to test the survey21:46
mathiazand the web app21:46
nijabait is already up21:46
nijabaI am just waiting for 1 bug fix ATM21:46
mathiaznijaba: so you're just looking for volunteers ?21:47
nijaba(actually trying to fix it myself)21:47
nijabamathiaz: pretty much21:47
* sommer volunteers for survey testing21:47
mathiaznijaba: they should contact via email ?21:47
nijabathat would be the best way21:47
mathiaznijaba: ok.21:47
mathiazLet's move on.21:47
mathiaz[TOPIC] Forums activity21:48
MootBotNew Topic:  Forums activity21:48
mathiazfaulkes- is not available to join the meeting.21:48
mathiazHe sent me an email stating that the sticky post in the Server Forum has been posted.21:48
mathiazAnd he is working with nijaba on the survey.21:49
mathiaz[TOPIC] Documentation21:49
MootBotNew Topic:  Documentation21:49
mathiazsommer: I've seen some discussion on the server guide.21:49
MootBotLINK received:  http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=721:50
sommeryep, mostly my misunderstanding about which directory we're developing in going forward21:50
mathiazI haven't answered on the thread, but it'd make sense to only have one branch to maintain the server guide21:50
nijabamathiaz: yes, it would.21:50
sommermathiaz: agreed21:50
nijabaThe MOTD feature request is surfacing again as well21:51
sommerwas there any decision on that?21:51
mathiazyes - The other problem is to install the serverguide on an ubuntu-server21:52
sommerI think the instruction on viewing the docs from console is the right approach21:52
mathiazthere isn't any ubuntu-server seed at the moment.21:52
mathiazsommer: agreed. but we need to install the serverguide on ubuntu-server21:52
sommermathiaz: sure, is it a size issue?21:52
mathiazsommer: more a seed issue I think.21:53
nijabaso we should ask for a server-install and server-supported seeds21:53
nijabaserver-install for default install21:53
nijabaserver-supported to sort which package in supported are there because of server and supported for 5y21:54
mathiaznijaba: right - server-supported is server-ship I think.21:54
nijabamathiaz: not in cjwatson point of view, AFAIK21:54
mathiazthe default install for ubuntu-server is the ubuntu-standard seed.21:54
nealmcbInteresting sticky server post from last year about the ubuntu "mindset" for server security (vs the "windows mindset"), might inspire some documentation (or be worth improving on - I haven't read it yet): http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51081221:54
mathiaznijaba: it may worth to review the seed state then. I think he started to reorganize them.21:55
nijabamathiaz: I think so too21:55
sommernealmcb: cool, I'll take a look21:55
mathiazSo to keep things moving - I won't do the Roadmap review.21:56
nealmcbsommer: :-)21:56
mathiaz[TOPIC] Any Other Business21:56
MootBotNew Topic:  Any Other Business21:56
sommerebox status?21:57
nealmcbany more ebox updates?21:57
zuljust one eBox is looking better for Universe21:57
mathiazThere is the Ubuntu Developer Week going on the whole week.21:57
nealmcbzul: I.e. "only for universe"? or "nearly ready to push to universe"?21:58
nijabaGreat session by Soren yesterday21:58
* nealmcb missed it - oops! busy life....21:58
zulnealmcb: almost ready to push to universe have to get a second pair of eyes to look at it first21:58
nealmcbzul: great - thanks!21:58
nijabazul: you'll have plenty of eyes next week I guess :)21:59
zuloh I will, I can corner them as well :)21:59
mathiaz[TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.21:59
MootBotNew Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.21:59
mathiazsame time, same place ?21:59
* nijaba thinks that sommer tries to cheat22:00
mathiazOk - granted. Thanks all for coming.22:01
sommerit's my happy pose22:01
ogra_cmpcnijaba, he's clapping hands22:01
MootBotMeeting finished at 22:01.22:01
ivoksanother one longer than 1 hour :D22:01
nijabathanks *22:01
sommerlater all22:02
nxvl_workoh i'm late again22:02
nealmcbsommer: no - it is the backslash that you need two of:  \\o22:02
sommernealmcb: heh... but I'm right handed22:02
nealmcband I'm lookng at you and that is your right hand :-)22:02
nealmcbsmiles - always fun.  later!22:03
ivokssee you22:05
cjwatsonnijaba,mathiaz: the reason why it doesn't work to just say that server-ship == server support is that it simply isn't true. There's server-type stuff in supported that we don't put on the CD. Likewise there's desktop-type stuff in supported that we don't put on the desktop or alternate CDs. The problem at the moment is that there is no straightforward way for us to divide the stuff up that's in supported but in neither deskto22:10
sorencjwatson: You got cut off at "in neither deskt"22:11
nijabacjwatson: thanks for clarifying this22:11
cjwatsonin neither desktop nor server.22:11
cjwatsonbut yes it may be an issue that the default server install is identical to standard. perhaps ... I'd like you guys to think hard before changing that and not do it just 'cos, but we're happy to change that if instructed22:12
cjwatsonif it's just for documentation, an alternative is to unpack that documentation on the CD somewhere22:12
mathiazcjwatson: the idea is to also the serveguide package installed by default during a server installaion.22:13
nijabacjwatson: 2 issues: add packages on CD that would be installed by default is one22:13
nijabacjwatson: second is too be able to sort supported packages that are not on CD between server and desktop22:13
nijabahence my proposal to have server-supported22:14
nijabacjwatson: I can also start working on the sorting of supported if that would help22:14
cjwatsonmathiaz: if it's just that documentation package, I think it might be better off just unpacked on the CD. If it's more than that, that's where I'm asking that you guys think hard because I know traditionally the rationale was that a server install should be pretty minimal by default.22:18
cjwatsonnijaba: it is not yet obvious to me whether server ought to be defined inclusively or exclusively22:18
cjwatsonnijaba: that is, it may be that it is easier to work on a desktop-supported and say that server is everything else22:18
cjwatsonwe clearly have to have one of them be "everything else"22:18
nijabacjwatson: might be22:18
mathiazcjwatson: the only package that we'd like to get installed by default is the serverguide documentation.22:19
nijabacjwatson: but if it help for me to look at what server needs out of supported, let me know22:19
mathiazcjwatson: if this can be done by unpacking it on the CD it'd be great.22:20
mathiazcjwatson: adding a seed just for one package doesn't make sense.22:20
cjwatsonmathiaz: by which I mean, leave the CD in and browse it with w3m22:20
cjwatsonor equivalent22:20
cjwatsonwe do that for the installation guide, although admittedly there's a better and more obvious rationale there22:20
nijabacjwatson: not that easy, lots of server deployed without physocal CD22:20
mathiazcjwatson: ah... It'd be combined with a motd pointing to the server guide22:21
cjwatsonyeah, my concern is a seed and supporting infrastructure for a single package22:21
nijabawhat about a task that's selected by default?22:21
cjwatsonnijaba: the mechanism is not a problem. I know how to do it.22:22
cjwatson(I implemented 90% of this infrastructure)22:22
mathiazOTOH installing the serverguide would contradict the principle of having a minimal install22:22
cjwatson(actually that's probably not fair, Scott did a chunk of it before me, but still :-) )22:22
cjwatsonso I just want to make sure that you guys have thought about it22:23
mathiazI can see server administrator complaining that this a waste of space and having the serverguide on a web server in a production environment doesn't make sense.22:23
cjwatsonif it's what you want, then we can do it22:23
mathiazcjwatson: right. I'm still not 100% convinced that we should do this (see my comment above). But at least we know we can do it technically.22:24
nijabaI'd vote for default tasksel, so one can avoid installing in automated deployments22:24
cjwatsonnijaba: (FYI it's not currently possible to have a task that's selected by default and still have the question asked; however this is a bug that we should fix for other reasons too)22:24
mathiazcjwatson: thanks for the input.22:24
cjwatson(at least not by preseeding; standard is hacked in explicitly)22:24
cjwatsonif you decide you want it done, file a bug on the ubuntu-cdimage project and we'll make it happen22:25
nijabacjwatson: is tis bug teacked somewhere?22:25
nijabaI meant *Tracked22:25
cjwatsonnijaba: I think it may only be in my head, though I thought the ubuntustudio guys had a bug about it somewhere22:26
nijabamathiaz: I think we should discuss and propose a solution during sprint next week22:26
mathiaznijaba: yes.22:26
cjwatsonbut, that's not really your problem, it's an implementation detail22:27
nijabacjwatson: more on this next week.  Thanks a lot for your input22:27
cjwatsonno problem22:27
=== ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 27 Feb 07:00 UTC: Platform Team | 27 Feb 12:00 UTC: Education Team | 27 Feb 21:00 UTC: Server Team | 28 Feb 14:00 UTC: Desktop Team
Riddellare people here for a meeting?23:02
nosrednaekimis there anything to meet about?23:02
coreymon77oh come on23:02
Riddellnothing up on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings23:02
coreymon77i finally make it and then there is nothing?23:02
Riddellexcept nosrednaekim membership23:02
coreymon77i just cant win can i?23:03
Riddellcoreymon77: got any agenda items?23:03
coreymon77not really23:03
Riddellseele: is that an agenda item?23:03
coreymon77the reason i wanted to come is because i wanted to know what we talk about23:03
nosrednaekimha... i'll remove myself from the agenda item23:04
seeleRiddell: no.. i was answering "here" for a meeting :)23:04
coreymon77man, i really just cant win23:05
Riddelloh, anyone want to write the team report?23:05
* nosrednaekim thinks up a topic real fast...... are we putting Koffice2 instead of Open office on the kde4 CD?23:05
Riddellnosrednaekim: Koffice2 won't be ready in time23:06
Riddellthey don't want alphas or betas going into general use I believe23:06
nosrednaekimah.. ok23:06
coreymon77anyone know when kde4 konv will be ready, im waiting for it so that it can be ported to mac23:06
nosrednaekimcoreymon77 » uhh I'm not sure if anyone is even working on it23:07
coreymon77wow, this is gonna take a while23:07
seeleRiddell: is koffice2 still schedules for July for 4.1?23:07
Riddellseele: april or may time I believe23:07
coreymon77oh well, i guess ill have to stick with x11.app23:07
Riddellso we could include it if we did a KDE 4.1 Kubuntu release23:08
coreymon77havent we already done so?23:08
coreymon77oh no23:08
coreymon77thats 4.0.1 isnt it?23:08
Riddellcoreymon77: only kexi and krita, and that's when we have spce23:08
coreymon77one thing should be worked on23:09
coreymon77kde4's ability on lower resolution monitors23:09
coreymon77i can barely do anything on my dell box23:09
Riddellmeaning interfaces which don't fit?23:09
coreymon77everything is squished23:10
coreymon77taskbar is tiny, desktop holds nothing23:10
Riddellthat's an upstream issue essentially.  it is important though, especially with olpc/eeepc machines coming out23:10
coreymon77and this is with a 1024x768 monitor23:10
coreymon77nothing fits23:10
Riddellthat's what I use23:10
Riddellworks for me23:10
coreymon77doesnt seem to for mine23:11
coreymon77and with anything smaller that that23:11
coreymon77than that*23:11
coreymon77i cant imagine23:11
nosrednaekimyeah, its not too bad on my 800 tall monitor.23:11
coreymon77not too bad is not good enough23:11
coreymon77this is kde4, this is what everyone has been waiting for23:11
apachelogger_correction, this is KDE 4.0.x23:12
nosrednaekimRiddell » we are in feature freeze? does that mean if I wanted to add a feature to the compiz-configurator, I couldn't?23:12
coreymon77and with small and light computers/lappys gaining popularity23:12
coreymon77thats a problem23:12
Riddellnosrednaekim: it would need an exception from the release team.  which includes me23:12
Riddellnosrednaekim: oh, did you add a .desktop file and a main inclusion report?23:12
nosrednaekimRiddell » neither.... what is a main inclusion report? a description?23:13
Riddellnosrednaekim: it needs a main inclusion report to get into main23:13
Riddellnosrednaekim: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue23:13
Riddellnosrednaekim: and it needs a .desktop file to get into the menu23:14
nosrednaekimyeah I can do that. i'll just copy some other apps' :)23:14
coreymon77so ya, the poor lower resolution compatability is a slight problem23:14
Riddellcoreymon77: my heart is with you but you need to complain/fix it upstream23:15
coreymon77so, what else?23:16
Riddellnoone volunteered to write the team report :)23:17
Riddelltesters needed for alpha candidates (but probably right now)23:17
coreymon77i think its dinner time for me now23:17
iRonRiddell: could i join kubuntu-members team?23:17
nosrednaekimI can write the team report I guess23:17
coreymon77seems we do have a agenda topic23:18
coreymon77Riddell: iRon wants membership23:18
RiddelliRon: do you have a wiki page?23:18
RiddelliRon: I don't think we have any other council members here just now but they can read the logs and vote later23:19
nosrednaekimRiddell » is there a template for team reports?23:19
coreymon77anyways, dinner time23:19
coreymon77ill be back later23:19
apachelogger_coreymon77: enjoy23:19
Riddellnosrednaekim: just bullet points on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/TeamReports/February200823:20
RiddelliRon: you forgot kaffeine codec install on the wiki page23:20
RiddelliRon: why do you like Kubuntu?23:21
iRonRiddell: kaffeine is not my23:21
Riddellhmm, it was Sergey says the changelog, my mistake23:22
RiddelliRon: was it the tutorial day that brought you our way?23:23
iRonI've used Kubuntu before.. but tutorial day pushed me to contribution in kubuntu23:24
Hobbseeoh, meeting?23:24
RiddellHobbsee: seems so, got questions for iRon?23:25
RiddelliRon: why do you like Kubuntu?23:25
iRonI love KDE.. and Kubuntu is the best KDE distro with great community23:26
* Hobbsee stomps on putty23:26
yuriyhi. meeting/no meeting?23:26
Riddellseems to be one23:27
apachelogger_not very much talking going on though ;-)23:27
* seele loves Riddell sarcasm23:27
nosrednaekimah.... wish I had a passport :)23:28
Riddellapachelogger_: think of something to ask iRon!23:28
neversfeldeRiddell: what testing with the alpha CDs is needed?23:28
apachelogger_iRon: what, in your opion, best qualifies you to become a kubuntu memeber?23:29
iRonapachelogger_: I'm a very good programmer.. ;) so I could contribute alot of features in distro23:30
RiddelliRon: there is an advert on tv here which claims that Ukranians eat pig fat in chocolate, is this true or is it a slur on your good nation by silly English people?23:30
* apachelogger_ likes good programmers23:30
Riddellthat must mean it is true!23:31
seeleoh ew23:31
iRonRiddell: yes we have a "bacon in cholocate"23:31
* yuriy tries to remember what it's called23:31
* nosrednaekim does not think pig-fat eating people should become members...23:31
apachelogger_iRon: whom would you bug to a) get a patch as soon as possible in main package and b) get a patch as soon as possible in a universe package?23:32
nosrednaekimRiddell » reading the main inclusion request page...... seems alot of them are packaging related23:33
iRonapachelogger_: a) LP b) upstream ?23:34
apachelogger_iRon: any specific persons you would poke to make things faster?23:34
Riddellnosrednaekim: it's entirely packaging related.  you are requesting to have the package moved to main (after a review of the source)23:35
apachelogger_iRon: imagine it's a patch for a uber major security issue23:35
iRonapachelogger_: then i could email to original app developer23:35
nosrednaekimRiddell » but I know nothing about packaging..... guess I'll learn :)23:36
Riddellapachelogger_: to be fair, iRon hasn't done any packaging23:36
Riddellbut enough grilling23:37
RiddellI vote +1 for top code contributions23:37
apachelogger_that question was more about general understanding of the contirubtion process :)23:37
apachelogger_I say get him in :D23:37
Hobbsee+1 for the neat work23:38
* apachelogger_ is totally looking foward to PolicyKit23:38
nosrednaekimuhh have to go do some stuff, I'll talk to later about that stuff Riddell23:38
neversfeldeif there are no other agenda points, is it possible that I candidate for kubuntu membership, too?23:38
apachelogger_neversfelde: do you have a wiki page?23:39
RiddelliRon: we'll need to wait for another council member to come along and read the logs but it's looking promising, thanks for applying23:39
iRonRiddell: thanks!23:39
neversfeldeyes, but it is a little bit out of date23:39
neversfeldei did not plan to go for membership this day, but I saw there is a meeting23:40
* emonkey had the same thought as neversfelde just in the same second but it don't need to be today. :)23:40
apachelogger_Riddell: I think we can grill neversfelde as well23:40
Riddellapachelogger_: lets23:40
Riddellneversfelde: what is jurisprudence?23:40
apachelogger_emonkey: got a wiki page?23:41
neversfeldeI am a trainee lawyer, isn't jurisprudence the right word for that23:41
emonkeyapachelogger_, of course: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Emonkey23:41
yuriyto be recognized as a kubuntu contributor, you need to be given a vocabulary test!23:41
apachelogger_that is really the worst about it23:41
neversfeldeSchool is far away ;)23:42
apachelogger_neversfelde: can you please explain "some basic packaging"23:42
Riddellneversfelde: could well be, it's just a word from only the legal field23:42
neversfeldeRiddell: It is hard to explain what I am doing23:42
Riddellneversfelde: do you know if anyone from Kubuntu is going to Chemnitzer Linux-Tage?23:42
neversfeldeI got the first exam, but I have to pass a practical one in July this year23:42
neversfeldeafter that I could be a judge or a full lawyer in germay, if I want to be23:43
apachelogger_hm partical exam = win a case?23:43
nixternalumm, did I miss something here or what?23:43
seeleneversfelde: what's your specialty (if you have one)23:43
apachelogger_nixternal: we are meeting23:43
nixternalnobody invited me :(23:44
Riddellnixternal: read the logs for iRon and vote23:44
* yuriy forgot "meeting" was a verb for a second23:44
nixternalwill do Riddell23:44
emonkeyRiddell, there will be 4 kubuntu-de.org guys in Chemnitz23:44
apachelogger_try #223:44
apachelogger_neversfelde: can you please explain "some basic packaging"23:44
Riddellemonkey: excellent23:44
neversfeldeseele: not yet, but I do have an affinity to IT law23:44
neversfeldeof course23:44
neversfeldeapachelogger_: no practical case in exam, I have to do several before and in exam there are several written tests23:45
* apachelogger_ shudders23:46
neversfeldeapachelogger_: I learned some basics, when I backported some packgages for czessis repo23:46
neversfeldebut I must confess it is very basic, I'd love to learn more, when I do have mor time again23:46
Riddellneversfelde: does Czessi still have a repo?  and can those packages not go into ubuntu?23:47
apachelogger_neversfelde: so, you are planing on package contributions?23:47
nixternaliRon and Riddell: I will only give a +1 if iRon sends me some of that "bacon in chocolate"....thinking about it makes me fat!23:47
nixternalRiddell and iRon: +1 from me :)23:47
RiddelliRon: congratulations!23:47
apachelogger_Riddell: it's pretty dead these days, I try to get everything into universe rather than czessi's repo23:47
nixternalcongrats iRon! welcome to the team23:47
neversfeldeRiddell: He does, but there seems to be not enough time alongside his several other contributions23:48
apachelogger_iRon: congrats23:48
seelesigh, what an awful thing to do to chocolate :P23:48
neversfeldeand it is always planned to get packages in ubuntu, as far as I know23:48
iRonThanks everybody!23:48
neversfeldeapachelogger_: yes, but I am not a programmer23:48
neversfeldemy focus is on support, especially in the german speaking forum23:49
Riddellneversfelde: how busy are the german forums?23:49
nixternalRiddell: did you get my patch for Ubiquity? and if so, does it look OK to you?23:49
Riddellnixternal: yes thanks, not looked at it yet23:49
nixternalooh, speaking of kubuntu-de, we (I) need to get working on release notes ahead of time so other teams can translate23:49
RiddellHobbsee: any questions for neversfelde?23:50
neversfeldeRiddell: not bad, depends on the time after an ubuntu release23:50
neversfeldeI think round about 30 posts average a day23:51
apachelogger_neversfelde: do you think it is important for kubuntu to support kubuntu focused LoCos better? or is it just as good to have them as part of an ubuntu LoCo?23:51
nixternaloh man, another lawyer-in-training?23:51
* nixternal thinks Ubuntu is gearing up to sue the world with all of the lawyers around here :p23:51
emonkey50 posts says the stat23:51
apachelogger_nixternal: ain't a bad thing, is it? :P23:51
emonkey7000 hits per day23:51
nixternalneversfelde: I take it you are going for membership right now?23:51
apachelogger_nixternal: yes23:51
* nixternal looks for a wiki and lp page23:52
apachelogger_nixternal: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ChristianMangold23:52
apachelogger_lp is linked23:52
neversfeldeapachelogger_: nice topic :). I think there should be Kubuntu Locos beneath Ubuntu Locos, ofcourse they should work together as much as possible. I think we practice this in germany on events very well.23:52
neversfeldenixternal: another?23:52
yuriyclever question apachelogger_23:52
Riddellany germans able to advocate neversfelde?23:53
apachelogger_neversfelde: same question as for iRon - what, in your opion, best qualifies you to become a kubuntu memeber?23:53
nixternalneversfelde: are the Ubuntu and Kubuntu teams in Germany separated?23:53
neversfeldeapachelogger_: my work in support for kubuntu, especially in the forum.23:54
neversfeldenixternal: they are23:54
nixternalhrmm, why is that? why not just a generalize Ubuntu LoCo team that supports everything *buntu?23:54
emonkeynixternal, yes but we're looking for cooperation if it's make sense23:55
nixternalgnome people don't cooperate :p23:55
nixternaljust kidding people! :)23:55
neversfeldeI do not know if this is good or bad, I want to give my best for Ubuntu and especially for KDE and so my first home was kubuntu.de.23:55
apachelogger_Riddell: neversfelde arbeitet wie ein wahnsinniger, und weiß dabei auch noch was er macht, IMHO trägt er als teil von kubuntu-de stark zur präsenz von kubuntu in deutschland bei :P23:55
Riddellnixternal: their handling of the kubuntu-de.org domain did not endear me to them :(23:55
emonkeyapachelogger_, riddel does not understand german afaik ;)23:56
Riddellapachelogger_: pardon?23:56
apachelogger_[00:53] <Riddell> any germans able to advocate neversfelde?23:56
apachelogger_I just thought you want it in german as well :P23:56
Riddellah :)23:56
nixternalRiddell: ahhh, I knew there was something...honestly, I like the fact of Germany having a Kubuntu team, I would like to see Kubuntu LoCos, because I have witnessed LoCo teams in the US pushing Ubuntu and Ubuntu only23:56
neversfeldenixternal: I cannot explain that in a few words, especially in english. I think we should work together as good as possible and look what the future brings.23:57
nixternalneversfelde: if you could work in any one area of Kubuntu right now, what area would that be? which do you find the most intriguing?23:57
Riddell"<apachelogger_> Riddell: neversfelde works as a  Mad, and also still knows what he does23:57
Riddellthat sounds good23:57
apachelogger_Advocate: neversfelde isn't avoiding work, and for some reason he actually also knows what he is doing, IMHO is he, as part of kubuntu-de, responsible for the really strong presence of Kubuntu in Germany23:58
neversfeldenixternal: I want to learn packaging next, but I do not want to leave the support, so I have to see, how long it takes23:58
apachelogger_+1 for his support and promotion work23:58
Riddellneversfelde: do you have the kubuntu exhibition poster stand?23:58
emonkeyRiddell, I think it's still by Czessi ...23:58
nixternalif so, take a picture of it...I need to get one for an upcoming conference23:58
neversfeldeRiddell: yes it is23:59
Riddellnixternal: kwwii has the artwork23:59
nixternalI need a KDE one too...I am representing both actually23:59
Riddell+1 from me for top kubuntu-de contributions23:59
yuriynixternal: speaking of which, i'll probably be doing a kde4 presentation at our LoCo installfest this saturday, so i'm up for suggestions23:59
neversfeldeI talked to Czessi yesterday about sending it to UDS23:59
nixternal+1 here23:59
yuriynixternal: wrt LoCo's promoting kubuntu23:59

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