[02:29] <Palintheus> @schedule cst
[02:30] <Palintheus> @schedule chicago
[02:30] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 20 Feb 13:00: Platform Team | 20 Feb 14:00: Education Team | 20 Feb 15:00: Server Team | 21 Feb 08:00: Desktop Team | 21 Feb 14:00: Community Council | 27 Feb 06:00: Education Team
[04:08] <lokisan> hello
[04:18] <acidburn> hello there
[04:18] <acidburn> noones talking... so boring....
[06:55] <cjwatson> good morning
[06:55] <cjwatson> the fridge calendar is wrong, apparently; I've poked them about it
[06:55] <calc> good morning
[06:56] <ArneGoetje> good $timeofday
[06:56] <bryce> good morning (well, almost)
[06:57] <TheMuso> I've not forgotten, just come back from an hour away from the keyboard after my stint today.
[06:57] <evand> morning
[06:58] <bryce> TheMuso: perfect timing
[06:58] <TheMuso> Hey evand.
[06:58]  * asac waves 
[06:58] <ogra> yaaawn
[06:58] <ogra> morning
[06:58] <TheMuso> evand: WHen you have a minute, we need to talk re dmraid. I just read your report.
[06:58] <evand> hi TheMuso, good evening to you.
[06:58] <evand> TheMuso: sure
[06:59] <cjwatson> ok, so first things first, I've noticed that I'm taking a while to get the meeting notes out
[06:59] <cjwatson> would anyone like to volunteer as a secretary?
[06:59] <cjwatson> it's not particularly hard, I just find it tends to get pushed out of the way by other stuff
[07:00] <TheMuso> I'll do it if nobody else has a desire to... (Knowing that his essentially commits me to doing them, but oh well.)
[07:00] <TheMuso> I have done a few MOTU meeting minutes, so I know its not hard.
[07:00] <cjwatson> more than one volunteer means you get to alternate ;-)
[07:01] <TheMuso> There is that yes.
[07:01] <Hobbsee> or use mootbot?
[07:02] <cjwatson> mootbot might help but won't suffice; we want something human-edited
[07:02] <TheMuso> I don't think mootbot is applicable for these meetings.
[07:02] <TheMuso> No real need.
[07:02] <cjwatson> BTW, though I haven't historically got round to it, the notes should go up on the wiki somewhere as well as being posted to distro-team
[07:03] <cjwatson> TheMuso: ok, thanks for offering, and in that case please go ahead
[07:03] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Ok. What wiki URL format do we want to use?
[07:04] <TheMuso> I.e do we want the minutes udner a particular area in the wiki?
[07:04] <cjwatson> desktop is DesktopTeam/Meeting/YYYYMMDD
[07:04] <cjwatson> so PlatformTeam/Meeting/YYYYMMDD sounds good to me
[07:04] <TheMuso> fair enough
[07:05] <cjwatson>  * Actions from last week:
[07:05] <cjwatson>   * Arne to consult with Martin and Michael regarding
[07:05] <cjwatson>     langpack-o-matic/language-selector work
[07:05] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I understand Martin's side is done; how is Michael's side going?
[07:06] <ArneGoetje> mvo will do it, I guess he was to busy yesterday, but it is on his agenda for these days
[07:06] <cjwatson> ok, as long as it hasn't fallen off
[07:06] <cjwatson>   * Chris to check whether en_GB strings where msgid == msgstr have
[07:06] <cjwatson>     been stripped out of the English langpacks
[07:06] <ArneGoetje> nope, it hasn't. I'll keep you posted
[07:07] <cjwatson> calc: you mentioned something about this last night; any further progress?
[07:07] <calc> cjwatson: hadn't had a chance to talk to doko about it yet, been beating on the xulrunner stuff most of the day
[07:07] <calc> cjwatson: i emailed him but i don't know if he read it yet
[07:08] <calc> doko_: i seem to recall you mentioning before if we strip out messages it causes problems with OOo is that the case for cjwatson is talking about here?
[07:11] <cjwatson> doko_: are you in fact here?
[07:11] <cjwatson> ok, I think doko is present in body but not in spirit
[07:12] <cjwatson> let's move on and we can come back to that if he appears
[07:12] <cjwatson>  * LTS point release team
[07:12] <calc> ok, well i think he had said before that it causes crashes, but i may be misrembering and i'll try to find out for certain asap
[07:12] <cjwatson> calc: indeed, this ought to be subject to experimental verification once you get a chance
[07:12] <calc> ok
[07:13] <cjwatson> so, as I think has been mentioned, we're going to be doing point releases of 8.04, as an LTS
[07:14] <cjwatson> and we would like to put enough resources into that to make it pretty respectable, without burning people out who are already focusing on 8.10 development
[07:14] <asac> most likely in the middle of the server support cycle? (e.g. 2.5 years?)
[07:14] <cjwatson> asac: more frequently than that; the first point release is likely to be a few months out from 8.04 itself
[07:15] <cjwatson> I don't want to go into an exact schedule since this is a public channel and we haven't settled on it yet, and rumours do tend to spread :-)
[07:15] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Will it be similar to 6.06.2, where it will only be for servers, and not desktops? Or does that depend on what has been fixed?
[07:15] <asac> cjwatson: ok
[07:15] <cjwatson> TheMuso: in this case it'll be both
[07:16] <cjwatson> 6.06.2 was just servers because desktops were starting to look not worth the effort given the support lifetime
[07:16] <TheMuso> Yeah I thought thatwas the case.
[07:16] <cjwatson> but, in this case, it's a question of keeping a few desktop guys focused on 8.04 when they would ordinarily have switched over
[07:16] <asac> like catching up on features that didn't make the real release?
[07:17] <cjwatson> the current agreement is for Steve to lead this effort, and have a virtual team of a few platform, a few desktop, a few server, a few QA
[07:17] <cjwatson> asac: I think catching up on bug-fixing is more likely
[07:17] <asac> ok
[07:17] <cjwatson> this is, essentially, a stabilisation effort
[07:17] <evand> are we really large enough to lose that many people to such an effort without feature development in the next release seriously suffering?
[07:18] <cjwatson> feature development in 8.10 will likely take some kind of a hit, yes
[07:18] <cjwatson> although I don't think it will be a critical one
[07:19] <cjwatson> this is sort of similar in some ways to what we did with the 6.06 delay and its effect on 6.10, but hopefully a bit less severe
[07:19] <evand> ok
[07:19] <cjwatson> while 6.10 didn't open until June, 8.10 will open in April or early May as usual, and everyone who isn't still focused on 8.04 will be able to get it up and running
[07:20] <cjwatson> 8.04 is more important in many ways, though, and there is growing consensus that we need to be able to deliver stable and timely point releases of LTSes, rather than it being a side effort
[07:21] <cjwatson> so what I want to do here is both explain what's happening and answer questions on it, and also look for the right people to take part in this from this group
[07:22] <cjwatson> my feeling is that it should be the people who would be most snowed under with SRU work anyway
[07:23] <cjwatson> and also people with a capacity to field general platformish bugs from all over, which QA will be hunting down
[07:24] <cjwatson> deafening silence :-)
[07:25] <Hobbsee> you scared them all off!
[07:26] <ArneGoetje> well, I don't fit the criteria... :)
[07:26] <cjwatson> bryce: I suspect we may need somebody able to field X problems, for instance
[07:26] <bryce> cjwatson: sure thing
[07:26] <cjwatson> ok, I think I will select people over the next week or two and talk with you about it
[07:27] <cjwatson> but if you feel you are particularly appropriate or inappropriate for the task, please shout
[07:27] <cjwatson>  * Routines post-FF
[07:28] <TheMuso> I think I'd probably be inappropriate only because there is a lot of a11y stuff happening next cycle, and we need to keep on top of it, however, if I'm asked, I'll consider it.
[07:28] <cjwatson> TheMuso: *nod*, thanks
[07:29] <cjwatson> this is perhaps obvious to old-timers, but I just wanted to sketch out the routine from here to 8.04 so that everyone is clear on what we're expected to be doing from here on
[07:29] <cjwatson> with the exception of a few ... exceptions, features should be complete, although I expect that many of them may still need to have their bugs shaken out
[07:30] <cjwatson> for anything non-trivial, please go to special effort to gather explicit testing, and fill out the testing plan section on the wiki specification
[07:30] <cjwatson> other than that, we should be in full steam for fixing as many bugs as we can for hardy, and making it a great stable release
[07:31] <cjwatson> Leann has prepared a qa-hardy bug list just for us, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/qa-hardy-list-archive/sort-by-package/platform-buglist.html
[07:31] <TheMuso> Nice
[07:31]  * TheMuso bookmarks
[07:32] <cjwatson> if you have things on that, please either talk to me or her about untagging them (there's at least one infeasible grub bug I need to get untagged), or fix them at your earliest convenience
[07:33] <cjwatson> please also make sure you are adequately kept informed of new bugs coming in, and make sure to be responsive to them
[07:33] <asac> the firefox bugs don't make much sense ;) ... we should untag them all
[07:33] <cjwatson> even those you can't fix should get an update and forwarded upstream where appropriate
[07:33] <asac> i will talk with lean to figure the real bugs
[07:33] <cjwatson> asac: thanks
[07:34] <bryce> cjwatson: regarding feature exceptions, I'd like to talk with you about the xrandr configuration gui - RedHat is working on a tool which will be going upstream, and I'd like your direction about adopting and polishing that.  Or perhaps since we're past FF, other options I should take.
[07:34] <cjwatson> asac: looks like she was trying to gather the most-duplicates crash reports
[07:34] <cjwatson> bryce: yep, was going to come to that shortly
[07:34] <bryce> ok cool
[07:35] <cjwatson> in order to be kept informed of new bugs and new comments on existing bugs, Launchpad really isn't quite up to providing the sort of feed-type information you'd need to do this entirely with the web UI yet, and so it's important that you become friends with bugmail if you aren't already
[07:35] <cjwatson> pitti wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/HowToFilter which may be helpful in dealing with the flood
[07:36] <TheMuso> X-Launchpad-Message-Rationale is a useful filter.
[07:36]  * TheMuso uses that for all bugmail that doesn't go to an ML.
[07:39] <cjwatson> bryce: ok
[07:39] <cjwatson> bryce: my concern on your question is that I thought you were already some way into your UI, and were nearing feature-completion
[07:40] <bryce> the UI is pretty well done, and I have been working on the application of the xrandr changes.
[07:42] <bryce> I estimate being about a week from having it feature complete, however the redhat tool is more likely to be accepted upstream
[07:42] <cjwatson> what's the current state of the RH tool?
[07:43] <bryce> it is functional and feature complete except for a couple minor things, but needs integration / packaging work done to it, and the UI needs a few tweaks
[07:43] <bryce> I dug through it and experimented with it a bit over the weekend, and it looks pretty well thought out.  It does need polish though.
[07:44] <cjwatson> I assume you only became aware of it over the last week? :-)
[07:44] <bryce> correct; I learned about it wednesday
[07:45] <cjwatson> is the reason that RH's tool is more likely to go upstream that it is being written by existing core X developers?
[07:45] <bryce> it came to light after I proposed what I was working on to the gnome-control-center list (whose archives I'd dug through before starting my effort)
[07:46] <bryce> The RH person working on it has been involved in gnome-control-center in the past, and I gather had discussed this with some of the gnome folks at a conference a while ago
[07:48] <cjwatson> hard choice
[07:48] <bryce> yeah
[07:49] <cjwatson> it sounds like the best plan is to grab desktop team folks and talk about the best way to get the RH work integrated ASAP; if possible, perhaps even for alpha 5
[07:49] <cjwatson> (though that's very close now)
[07:49] <bryce> other options I've thought about include just setting it aside for now, and fixing up displayconfig-gtk best we can, or even just dropping gui config and sticking with the command line solutions
[07:49] <cjwatson> but keep your existing work around in case we need to fall back to that
[07:49]  * bryce nods
[07:50] <cjwatson> we'd already decided against displayconfig-gtk, I thought, and I don't think a command-line solution is good enough
[07:50] <bryce> yup
[07:50] <cjwatson> it is unfortunate that it's one more thing that the /. crowd can complain came from RH rather than Canonical ... but so it goes
[07:52] <bryce> yep, I was really looking forward to putting something from canonical upstream but I really get the sense it's not going to be an option here.
[07:52] <cjwatson> bryce: definitely grab seb128 and talk through it with him
[07:52] <bryce> great, thanks, will do.
[07:52] <cjwatson> any other business?
[07:53] <asac> maybe can take care that the previous meeting minutes go to wiki/public as well?
[07:54] <TheMuso> wiki/public?
[07:54] <cjwatson> I can do that over time, though I will have to check that I didn't put anything confidential in them
[07:54] <evand>  * What's the status of the pycentral issue?  We haven't had a new live
[07:54] <evand> filesystem since the 9th.
[07:54] <asac> cjwatson: ok
[07:54] <cjwatson> pycentral only came up yesterday; I thought Michael fixed it yesterday too?
[07:54] <ogra> evand, fixed
[07:55] <ogra> my dist-upgrade just went through like a breeze
[07:55] <TheMuso> I updated during today to find it fixed.
[07:55] <cjwatson> bug 192992 is still Confirmed
[07:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192992 in python-central "[hardy] pycentral crashed with ValueError in parse_versions()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192992
[07:55] <slangasek> is it fixed?  the bug is listed as open
[07:55] <ogra> i dont think mvo added any LP entries to his changelog
[07:55] <evand> ah, we still seem to have trouble with the following though:
[07:55] <ogra> so need to be closed manually
[07:55] <evand>  ssl-cert
[07:55] <evand>  cupsys
[07:55] <evand>  cupsys-driver-gutenprint
[07:55] <evand>  hal-cups-utils
[07:55] <evand>  ubuntu-desktop
[07:55] <evand> not saying that's related to pycentral though
[07:55] <evand> from: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/hardy/ubuntu/20080220/livecd-20080220-amd64.out
[07:55] <ogra> cupsys is likely java related
[07:56] <evand> (that's from an hour or two ago)
[07:56] <ogra> and desktop is because of cupsys indeed
[07:56] <slangasek> ogra: ok; it was fixed in a python-central upload though, right?
[07:56] <ogra> slangasek, yep
[07:56] <ogra> mvo isnt around yet i think thats the reason he didnt close it yet (wanting feedback first)
[07:57] <cjwatson> ogra: cupsys fails because it depends on ssl-cert which fails
[07:57] <cjwatson> (read the log :-))
[07:57] <ogra> well, i was guessing :)
[07:57] <slangasek> ok, good to hear it's fixed then, that means I'll be able to get to sleep sooner tonight :)
[07:57] <cjwatson> ssl-cert looks like it's failing because hostname says "Unknown host"
[07:57] <ogra> heh
[07:57] <slangasek> oh ugh, that'd be my bug then
[07:57] <ogra> yeah, seems the network connection on the buildds sucks ... :) i just learned that with edubuntu-addon-meta :)
[07:57] <slangasek> cjwatson: the only change is hostname -> hostname -f; why does the one work and the other fail in the livefs build env?
[07:58] <slangasek> (hmm, we can take that out of the meeting)
[07:58] <ogra> (joking)
[07:58] <cjwatson> we do need to get new live filesystems today, but that's obvious :)
[07:58] <cjwatson> ok, if that's all, then we'll adjourn
[07:58] <cjwatson> thanks all
[07:58] <calc> goodnight everyone :-)
[07:58] <evand> thanks!
[07:58] <bryce> thanks
[07:58] <asac> thank!
[07:58] <TheMuso> Np, minutes may either be tongiht my time, but certainly tomorrow.
[07:58] <slangasek> thanks
[07:59] <TheMuso> my time
[07:59] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[07:59] <ogra> thanks
[17:26] <ubuntuwestbengal> is there anyone here from the community council?
[17:34] <ubuntuwestbengal> anyone?
[18:43] <emgent> heya
[18:59] <pedro_> hello!
[18:59]  * ogasawara waves
[18:59] <heno> hi!
[19:00] <liw> hola
[19:00] <davmor2> hello
[19:00] <Iulian> Hi
[19:00]  * stgraber waves
[19:01] <heno> hey everyone!
[19:01] <heno> let's start
[19:01] <heno> #startmeeting
[19:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 19:01. The chair is heno.
[19:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:01] <heno> agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[19:02] <heno> [TOPIC] qa-hardy-list promotion
[19:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  qa-hardy-list promotion
[19:03] <heno> ogasawara: thanks for splitting that up. I've emailed various lists about it and will attend IRC meetings to follow up
[19:03] <heno> I don't think that needs discussion
[19:03] <heno> [TOPIC] QA poll site beta testing
[19:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA poll site beta testing
[19:03] <nand> hi! sorry, a bit late
[19:04] <heno> nand: just getting to your topic
[19:04] <bdmurray> heno: Do you promotion in terms of advertising?
[19:04] <nand> perfect timing :)
[19:04] <nand> heno: some news on the subdomains?
[19:04] <heno> bdmurray: yes
[19:04] <heno> nand: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ ...
[19:05] <nand> it's up?
[19:05] <heno> bdmurray: any further ides on that?
[19:05] <heno> nand: yes
[19:05] <bdmurray> heno: no, I was thinking of promotion as "escalation" not promoting
[19:05] <heno> but I guess it needs some drupal magic
[19:05] <stgraber> hmm, cookie seems broken on brainstorm.ubuntu.com
[19:06] <stgraber> nand: the cookie thing I told you about ^^
[19:06] <bdmurray> I'm all set now though
[19:06] <heno> ok, cool
[19:06] <nand> nice! Tomorrow, we'll update the htaccess and sql updates
[19:06] <nand> stgraber: yes, I guess we will have to do with it
[19:07] <nand> That will give us a short time to test
[19:07] <heno> should we devise a test plan for the site? (everyone here add 3 ideas and 3 bugs or something)
[19:07] <stgraber> nand: well, as it's now I just can't login on brainstorm.u.c, so I'll have to update the cookie part of the config file to fix that
[19:07] <heno> just asking 'please test' doesn't seem to be working
[19:08] <stgraber> indeed :)
[19:08] <nand> yes, let's ask everyone to add a few bugs/ideas, at least to have some pagination
[19:09] <heno> ok, hands up all who volunteer to add 3 items to each site and do some voting and poking around
[19:09] <heno> o/
[19:10] <nand> what a crowd today :)
[19:10] <heno> [... silence ...]
[19:10] <nand> ok, I'll flood it myself...
[19:10] <ogasawara> I'll try to do some testing
[19:10] <davmor2> I can o/
[19:10] <heno> it should take about 7 minutes :)
[19:11] <nand> heno: do you want to know right now the planned release date, to coordinate and such?
[19:11] <stgraber> nand: did you switch to GET instead of POST for the ajax stuff in your next commit ? (I'm not sure it'll fix my PROXY bug but it's worth a try and shouldn't cause any regression)
[19:11] <heno> does everyone have access to the beta?
[19:11] <stgraber> if everyone means people speaking in this chan, then yes
[19:12] <nand> stgraber: not yet. I'll try tonight
[19:12] <heno> ok, cool
[19:12] <stgraber> I was thinking of Thursday the 28th as a release date
[19:12] <pedro_> stgraber: I've logged in and it doesn't work here, I've got a cute 403 again
[19:13] <stgraber> pedro_: use qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas and qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs instead
[19:13] <davmor2> stgraber: I can't log in either as above
[19:13] <stgraber> pedro_: brainstorm.u.c doesn't work yet
[19:13] <stgraber> davmor2: same as pedro_
[19:13] <nand> wait for tomorrow's update
[19:13] <davmor2> stgraber: yes
[19:13] <pedro_> ok ok
[19:13] <nand> 28th : we can try for it
[19:14] <nand> monday we reset everything, remove the restriction
[19:14] <nand> that means everything must be ok friday
[19:14] <davmor2> stgraber: ping me when it's safe to test
[19:14] <stgraber> I'll be on holiday next week so I should have time to fix last minute stuff for the release
[19:14] <nand> nice
[19:15] <stgraber> davmor2: you can use qa.ubuntu.com, it'll be the same module but with a different URL
[19:15] <heno> yeah I just noticed that too. brainstorm.u.c won't work just yet i guess
[19:15] <davmor2> stgraber: yes I mean the brainstorm
[19:15] <heno> bdmurray, ogasawara: please have a quick poke at the bugs part at least http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/bugs/
[19:15] <stgraber> nand: IIRC the site config which contains the cookie definition is a php file, so we probably can update the cookie field depending on the URL
[19:16] <stgraber> nand: the user will have to login twice anyway
[19:16] <ogasawara> heno: will do
[19:16] <bdmurray> heno: okay
[19:16] <stgraber> davmor2: brainstorm.ubuntu.com will be an alias for http://qa.ubuntu.com/qapoll/ideas
[19:17] <heno> about launch date: I'm happy for nand and stgraber to decide on that
[19:17] <davmor2> stgraber: that works :) so you just want a bunch of ideas dropping in there to test it?
[19:17] <stgraber> davmor2: yep
[19:17] <davmor2> stgraber: np
[19:17]  * heno looks at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[19:18] <heno> nothing bit happening just after Alpha 5
[19:18] <stgraber> 28th will be the UI/artwork freeze
[19:18] <heno> *big
[19:18] <bdmurray> Isn't it a bit late for ideas since we are past feature freeze?
[19:19] <nand> heno: How many days before the release do you want to be warned, for coordination and stuff?
[19:19] <heno> bdmurray: these would be seed ideas for the next UDS
[19:19] <nand> bdmurray: of course, it's ideas for hardy+1 :)
[19:19] <davmor2> bdmurray: it can be like the one I am currently writing an on going idea :)
[19:20] <bdmurray> Okay, they doesn't seem to be conveyed at qapoll/ideas/
[19:20] <stgraber> bdmurray: well, just report those as usability bug then :)
[19:20] <heno> nand: a day or two is fine for me personally
[19:20] <nand> ok
[19:21] <heno> I do want to write some docs explaining the purpose of each site
[19:21] <heno> can we have an About link on each?
[19:21] <bdmurray> I think managing people's expectations is important and should happen right at the site.
[19:21] <davmor2> stgraber: seems to work fine :)
[19:21] <nand> yes, we should. And with some contacts too
[19:22] <heno> bdmurray: agreed
[19:22] <stgraber> nand: I did a quick demo of QA-Poll to one of my teachers this morning and something that was hard to understand/use was the duplicate UI
[19:22] <nand> I think instead of the "Ubuntu website" link, we could put a "About" box
[19:23] <nand> stgraber: what was confusing?
[19:23] <stgraber> nand: IIRC, you can't just select two ideas in the idea list and mark those as duplicates and the link on the idea page was hard to find
[19:23] <heno> sounds good
[19:23] <heno> let's continue the details of that in #u-testing or so
[19:24] <heno> [TOPIC] Kernel bug list migration. see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration
[19:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel bug list migration. see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration
[19:24] <nand> ok, please continue!
[19:24] <heno> ogasawara and I have been looking at this with the LP folks
[19:25] <heno> it's a sensitive issue; automatically modifying lots of bugs
[19:25] <heno> the transition to a new package name is a good time to do it though
[19:26] <heno> pedro_: have you been doing the gaim -> pidgin migration? any fall-out from that?
[19:26] <ogasawara> heno:  I think as long as we are clear to our bug reporters that we are not closing their bugs but rather making sure we're carrying them forward we won't have too much backlash
[19:26] <bdmurray> ogasawara: I check with markus regarding adding a task
[19:27] <pedro_> heno: it was just for the upstream project and there's like 20 bugs or so, so changing that wouldn't be hard
[19:28] <heno> so are we agreed on the approach? add a 'linux' task set to incomplete and set the others to 'Won'f fix'?
[19:29] <pedro_> at point 4 of the process which metadata you loss if you change the task from linux-source-something to linux?
[19:29] <pedro_> the name of the package?
[19:29] <pedro_> can that be resolved with a tag?
[19:29] <heno> yeah, what meta data is lost?
[19:30] <bdmurray> I'm concerned about "Won't fix"ing some that may be sru worthy
[19:30] <pedro_> because for me it seems that the option 4 is the best one
[19:30] <ogasawara> i was concerned about losing the history of a bug being open across multiple releases
[19:30] <heno> bdmurray: are you worried that they will slip off our radar as well (the won't fix can be changed again)
[19:31] <bdmurray> I seem to recall talking about Ben about that and that is something he didn't want to lose.
[19:32] <bdmurray> heno: I think that 2.6.15 or 2.6.22 bugs that are high or critical should be manually inspected.
[19:32] <heno> bdmurray: agreed, I assume we can black list those in the script
[19:33] <heno> or ust looked at first
[19:33] <heno> *just
[19:33] <heno> when should we move forward with this? do we need a dry run of some kind?
[19:34] <bdmurray> right, either way.
[19:34] <ogasawara> we'll need to investigate the adding new tasks functionality with plb
[19:36] <heno> ok, let's add a todo list to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/KernelBugMigration
[19:37] <ogasawara> I'll add it
[19:37] <heno> * new task functionality, * manually clean up some categories of bugs, * dry run, * live run
[19:37] <heno> or so
[19:37] <heno> ok, cool. net topic
[19:38] <heno> ah, my typing sux today :(
[19:38] <heno> [TOPIC] malone buglist - tagging these so they are viewable in Launchpad. see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/malone-buglist.html
[19:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  malone buglist - tagging these so they are viewable in Launchpad. see: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/malone-buglist.html
[19:38] <davmor2> heno: my typing sucks everyday :)
[19:39] <ogasawara> so mpt was inquiring why we don't just tag the bugs lists here and then use lp to display them
[19:39] <heno> I assume we are looking for volunteers here? ;)
[19:39] <ogasawara> I have a script to tag bugs
[19:39] <heno> ogasawara: right, that's what bjorn wants as well
[19:39]  * heno cheers ogasawara
[19:39] <ogasawara> so can we agree on a tag name?
[19:39] <heno> let's JUST DO IT
[19:39] <ogasawara> ubuntu-qa?
[19:40] <heno> sounds good, that lets other teams use ubuntu-desktop etc.
[19:41] <bdmurray> How could we convey the importance of the bug to us?
[19:43] <heno> we don't do it ATM, apart from the comment column
[19:43] <ogasawara> we could easily just have it as part of the tag for ex - ubuntu-qa-high
[19:43] <heno> adding a separate tag or changing it to ubuntu-qa-high both seem like cludgy
[19:43] <bdmurray> Actually, I'm not certain how useful that is.
[19:44] <heno> ogasawara: yeah, but then you have to search on 3 tags
[19:44] <bdmurray> I mean its no different than someone saying I have to have this piece of hardy working.
[19:44] <pedro_> does lp allow you to search for more than one tag?
[19:44] <pedro_> right...
[19:44] <ogasawara> pedro_: yup
[19:44] <bdmurray> wow, bad typing is contagious.  I meant this piece of hardware
[19:44] <davmor2> bdmurray: does this list not pertain to bugs already listed if so wouldn't the bug itself have a rating?
[19:44] <heno> perhaps we should just pick out our top 10 and email the list to bjorn
[19:45] <heno> ... once a week :)
[19:45] <bdmurray> heno: heh
[19:45] <ogasawara> does the Importance that's already set in the report not properly reflect the priority we think it should be?
[19:46] <heno> ogasawara: often not; as that's LP's own take on the priority
[19:46] <davmor2> ogasawara: That's my point I think.  Just put better :)
[19:46] <heno> Ubuntu is only one of many users of LP (though by far the biggest ATM)
[19:47] <heno> can we use ubuntu-qa + ubuntu-high?
[19:47] <ogasawara> so will us marking our own priority actually get them to resolve it faster?
[19:47] <bdmurray> Thinking about it some more I've never seen a definition of how the Launchpad team uses bug Status, but it is probably not the same as we, the Ubuntu distro, use them.
[19:47] <heno> that way you avoid the permutations at least
[19:48] <heno> and you can get a full ubuntu-qa list easily
[19:48] <bdmurray> I think by shoehorning our priority in there we are setting a bad precedent.
[19:49] <heno> that's true
[19:49] <ogasawara> I think we should be no different than any other lp users
[19:49] <ogasawara> we see reports all the time where bug reporters feel their bugs are top priority
[19:49] <heno> I think intel do this on some bugs
[19:49] <heno> with an intel-high tag
[19:50] <ogasawara> heno:  right, they do
[19:50] <heno> shall we proceed with just the ubuntu-qa tag and look at social forms of communicating priority first?
[19:50] <heno> email and bug comments
[19:50] <bdmurray> that sounds best to me
[19:50] <pedro_> agreed
[19:50] <ogasawara> sounds good
[19:51] <heno> good, next topic
[19:51] <heno> [TOPIC] yesterday's bugs formatting discussion draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewBugs/20080219
[19:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  yesterday's bugs formatting discussion draft at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NewBugs/20080219
[19:52] <heno> are we getting a wiki page for each day?
[19:52] <bdmurray> not yet, I wanted opinions on its utility / formatting
[19:53] <heno> could be useful for 5-a-day work
[19:53] <bdmurray> I was thinking having a column for the sourcepackage might be more useful than the Status/Importance
[19:53] <heno> someone might chose to focus on those pages
[19:53] <bdmurray> heno: right, I also though it would be useful in "staying on top" of New bug reports
[19:54] <heno> yep Status/Importance is a bit pointless here
[19:54] <bdmurray> of the 170 new yesterday 123 are still New
[19:54] <bdmurray> that's very approximate
[19:55] <ogasawara> I think it'd be helpful to see the package name
[19:55] <heno> but some are fix released :)
[19:55] <heno> how often is it updated? ever?
[19:55] <ogasawara> I think that's why there is the disclaimer at the top no?
[19:56] <heno> it would be very cool to look at a page like this from a month ago
[19:56] <bdmurray> It isn't updated and the query took about 140 minutes
[19:56] <heno> with updated statuses
[19:57] <heno> eeek
[19:57] <liw> 140 minutes? uh...
[19:57] <bdmurray> There might be a way to optimize how I'm doing it though
[19:57] <pedro_> with the new brach? ouch
[19:57] <heno> bdmurray: that's on your home machine?
[19:57] <heno> or in the DC?
[19:57] <bdmurray> nope, that's on rookery
[19:58] <heno> ooo
[19:58] <heno> can we justify running that every day?
[19:58] <bdmurray> Okay, so the answer is it seems quite useful but needs to be faster then.
[19:59] <heno> bdmurray: let's raise this with kiko; he might have some ideas on that
[19:59] <heno> with that we are out of time. there is another meeting after us
[20:00] <heno> #endmeeting
[20:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 20:00.
[20:00] <heno> thanks all!
[20:00] <davmor2> np
[20:00] <pedro_> thanks
[20:01] <ogra_cmpc> wow
[20:01]  * ogra_cmpc is impressed
[20:01] <heno> I'll write a summary -- the agenda was a bit late :)
[20:01] <ogra_cmpc> on the minute ....
[20:02] <ogra_cmpc> are you guys sure youre not german somehow ?
[20:02] <liw> jawohl
[20:02] <pedro_> well i like beer
[20:02] <heno> ogra_cmpc: just quality-oriented
[20:02]  * RichEd is getting coffee ... and invites mr grawert to drive the meeting tonight
[20:03] <ogra_cmpc> well, lets get started with tech then
[20:03] <ogra_cmpc> the addon cd is there (yay)
[20:04] <ogra_cmpc> there are not many changes to the content yet and it might currently list apps in gnome-app-install that arent there
[20:04] <ogra_cmpc> i also noticed that we still ship the winfoss software
[20:04] <ogra_cmpc> (which currently takes about 200M)
[20:05] <ogra_cmpc> we also have tons of langpacks we dont need on it
[20:05] <ogra_cmpc> if we drop all that the actual size left should be around 200 to 250M
[20:06] <ogra_cmpc> so plenty space to fill in the future
[20:06] <ogra_cmpc> and we didnt actually lose any functionallity
[20:07] <ogra_cmpc> i didnt do much in ltsp land last week ... digging through some bugs and trying to confirm them ...
[20:07] <ogra_cmpc> we're down to 38 bugs for ltsp atm
[20:08] <ogra_cmpc> i hope to get the majority cleaned out by release
[20:09] <ogra_cmpc> since ltsp is gone into ubuntu and edubuntu-server doesnt have any other dependencies atm i decided to not build a separate edubuntu-content-server package but to use edubuntu-server for that
[20:10] <ogra_cmpc> well, beyond that, italc and pangosdl still arent in main, that should happen asap
[20:11] <ogra_cmpc> i hope to have the time for the paperwork during the rest of the week
[20:12] <ogra_cmpc> alpha5 is due end of the week, indeed i'd like to see some testing of the new cd
[20:12] <ogra_cmpc> well, thats it so far with reports from my side ....
[20:12] <ogra_cmpc> questions ?
[20:13] <stgraber> well, less bug and a add-on CD what else do you want ? :)
[20:13] <ogra_cmpc> more time :)
[20:13] <stgraber> well, 48h days are something you should spec about :)
[20:13] <ogra_cmpc> and hardy out the door so we can actually play with crack again
[20:14] <ogra_cmpc> its hard to stay calm ... there is so much cool stuff out there that wants to be developed
[20:14] <ogra_cmpc> damned LTSes
[20:14] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[20:14] <stgraber> about Alpha-5, anything that needs extensive testing ?
[20:14] <stgraber> is LTSP in Alternate's boot menu ?
[20:14] <ogra_cmpc> not yet
[20:15] <ogra_cmpc> poping up g-a-i and listing edubuntu-desktop is the main point for alternate
[20:15] <stgraber> ok, so we'll probably just check that the images aren't broken
[20:15] <ogra_cmpc> oh and indeed e-d installability
[20:15] <ogra_cmpc> but i.ll test that tomorrow during the cleanup
[20:16] <ogra_cmpc> for now basic functiuonallity is the most important
[20:16] <ogra_cmpc> no, no menu entry yet
[20:16] <ogra_cmpc> colin wants me to work into gfboot and do the changes myself so i get familiar with it ...
[20:17] <ogra_cmpc> but gfxboot is a mean beast i'm slightly slow grasping it
[20:17] <stgraber> good luck :) (I once had to add a keyboard in it so I have an idea of how evil is that thing)
[20:17] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[20:17] <ogra_cmpc> well, the addon should have a shiny gfxboot screen telling you in friendly words that you need the main cd first
[20:18] <ogra_cmpc> so thats another open issue
[20:19] <stgraber> about iTalc, I haven't received any test result except from Francis (who found a couple of remaining bugs)
[20:19] <stgraber> should we ask for testing on edubuntu-user/-devel ?
[20:19] <ogra_cmpc> we shou.d start a wider call
[20:19] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[20:19] <ogra_cmpc> -user
[20:22]  * ogra_cmpc doesnt see any other tech questions
[20:23] <ogra_cmpc> (actually i dont see any other attendees :P)
[20:23] <stgraber> :)
[20:23] <ogra_cmpc> RichEd, your turn ?
[20:23] <RichEd> not much from my side ... just a tired & fried brain :)
[20:24] <RichEd> still working on education web content for the ubuntu web site
[20:24] <RichEd> and have also been tasked to do an edubuntu wiki page explaining the name migration
[20:24] <RichEd> (calling for comments & opinion)
[20:24] <ogra_cmpc> oh, right
[20:24] <RichEd> ... that's about it
[20:25] <ogra_cmpc> tell me the final names during the week please
[20:25] <ogra_cmpc> i'll adjust the iso pages
[20:25] <ogra_cmpc> it currently only says "addon"
[20:25] <RichEd> will do so ... the CD naming people need finality by Fri
[20:26] <ogra_cmpc> the iso name will just be hardy-addon-${arch}.iso
[20:26] <ogra_cmpc> i see no reason to change the filename here
[20:26] <ogra_cmpc> i was talking about the page headers on releases.u.c and cdimage.u.c
[20:27]  * RichEd nods
[20:27] <ogra_cmpc> the thing the before said "classroom server cd" and "educational addon cd"
[20:27] <ogra_cmpc> s/the/that/
[20:28] <ogra_cmpc> well, anyway, sonds like ther is not much more
[20:28] <ogra_cmpc> any other business ?
[20:28] <stgraber> as I said on #ubuntu-devel, I'll update the QA-Website by Alpha-6 (move the LTSP testcase to Ubuntu Alternate and update the filenames)
[20:28] <RichEd> just one quick comment about the naming ... and opinions from you guys
[20:28] <ogra_cmpc> stgraber, thanks a lot
[20:28] <RichEd> chris put the word "school" into the mix ...
[20:29] <ogra_cmpc> hmm
[20:29] <RichEd> i said that that sounded very limited to me compared to education ...
[20:29] <ogra_cmpc> yeah
[20:29] <ogra_cmpc> to me too
[20:29] <stgraber> +1
[20:29] <RichEd> so his reply was that school to him implied any learning, not just kids
[20:29] <ogra_cmpc> that would have fitted better with the classroom server cd when we had it
[20:30] <RichEd> but in my background / culture we speak of school, or college or varsity
[20:30] <ogra_cmpc> now as an ubuntu addon i dont think we should call it school-something
[20:30] <ogra_cmpc> well, we also speak about software media
[20:30] <RichEd> so can i tell him that we, the people, feel that education is preferred over school ?
[20:30] <ogra_cmpc> for me thats true
[20:31] <RichEd> so that's ogra for education
[20:31] <RichEd> stgraber > same for you ?
[20:31] <stgraber> yep
[20:31] <RichEd> anyone else yay or nay ?
[20:31] <ogra_cmpc> school simply doesnt include university
[20:32] <RichEd> so then it is unanimous for "education" and not "school" in the final naming
[20:32] <ogra_cmpc> and many areas more where edu software is used
[20:32] <RichEd> ogra_cmpc: for me i agree ... in some countries, even big people say i'm, off to school
[20:33] <ogra_cmpc> \even though i still dont get the reason why oreferably edu software is used in governments/municipalities
[20:33] <stgraber> well, it's probably something that comes from french but "education" looks more like an official/global term than "school"
[20:33] <RichEd> In SA, we definately differentiate the different levels, even in casual conversation
[20:33] <ogra_cmpc> they are enterprise offices ....
[20:33] <RichEd> thanks ... i'm done then for tonight
[20:34]  * RichEd looks around to see if anyone else has any matters pending or arising
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> going once ?
[20:34]  * ogra_cmpc looks around
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> going twice .....
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> .
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> .
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> .
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> adjourned
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> thanks "all"
[20:34] <ogra_cmpc> :)
[20:37] <RichEd> thanks ogra , stgraber
[20:37] <RichEd> and g'night
[20:58] <zul> hello
[20:59] <sommer> hey zul
[21:00] <soren> Hi!
[21:00] <kirkland> howdy
[21:00] <ivoks> hi
[21:00] <mathiaz> hello everyone
[21:00] <mathiaz> let's get started for today's meeting !
[21:01]  * Koon lurks in the background
[21:01] <jdstrand> hi mathiaz!
[21:01] <jdstrand> hi ivoks!
[21:01] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[21:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 21:01. The chair is mathiaz.
[21:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:01]  * nealmcb waves
[21:01]  * nijaba waves
[21:01] <mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[21:02]  * ogra_cmpc lurks a bit
[21:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:02] <mathiaz> Previous meeting logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080213
[21:03] <mathiaz> I think most of the actions listed have been done or will discussed later in the meeting.
[21:04] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Reporting / role of the meeting
[21:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Reporting / role of the meeting
[21:05] <mathiaz> I've noticed that the last two meetings were long
[21:05] <mathiaz> more than 1 hour.
[21:05] <mathiaz> I'd like to keep the meeting under an hour.
[21:05] <zul> agreed
[21:05] <mathiaz> Looking through the logs, I think we're spending a lot of time giving status reports
[21:06] <mathiaz> The reason why I'm leading the meeting in that direction is to get reports from everyone
[21:06] <mathiaz> to know what's been done in the server team
[21:06] <mathiaz> so that we have something to put in the monthly report
[21:07] <mathiaz> It's also a way to keep track of which features have been implemented so that we can put them in the release notes.
[21:08] <mathiaz> IIRC the IRC meeting of ubuntu-dev ran into the same problem once the team started to grow.
[21:08] <mathiaz> so I'd like to change how we keep track of what we're doing.
[21:09] <mathiaz> I'm thinking about sending the agenda whith the reminder of the meeting
[21:10] <soren> You usually send that out on Tuesdays, right?
[21:10] <mathiaz> whith a list of points requiring a status report
[21:10] <mathiaz> soren: yes - one day before the meeting
[21:10] <sommer>  I was just thinking that maybe instead of doing reports at the meeting we could reply to your meetings notes email when action items are complete/updated
[21:11] <sommer> or meeting minutes email rather
[21:11] <ivoks> we should do that before the meeting, cause issues could arise that would need more heads
[21:11] <nealmcb> the monthly reports show up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports
[21:12] <mathiaz> sommer: right - but I'd rather take a more proactive approache and ask people about what they're doing.
[21:12] <nijaba> I think we could start the meeting with a quick post of the completed action, and see why the ones outstanding are still there...
[21:13] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, just my thought
[21:13] <mathiaz> ivoks: agreed. I think that having the agenda in the meeting announcement would help.
[21:14] <ivoks> but only reports
[21:14] <mathiaz> Another option is to ask people to put their status report in the agenda wiki page before the meeting
[21:14] <ivoks> and if someone want to disscuss it, reply to the mail with a request for disscussion
[21:14] <mathiaz> this is how the ubuntu dev team was doing
[21:14] <ivoks> it would be bad if mailing list turns into the meeting
[21:15] <mathiaz> ivoks: correct.
[21:15] <ivoks> mathiaz: i think that would be much better approach
[21:15] <ivoks> with the wiki
[21:15] <sommer> yep, wiki is a better idea :)
[21:16] <mathiaz> ivoks: that's what the ubuntu dev team used for some time (until it didn't scale any more)
[21:16] <nijaba> not there yet, I guess...
[21:16] <mathiaz> nijaba: for the server team, not there.
[21:16] <soren> ubuntu-dev managed until we reached about 30..
[21:17] <soren> So some day, maybe :)
[21:17] <mathiaz> nijaba: but we've already reach the point where doing a round table for status report during a meeting isn't practicle anymore
[21:17] <nijaba> mathiaz: agreed
[21:17] <nijaba> and +1 for the wiki proposal
[21:18] <mathiaz> So - I'll change the meeting annoucement asking people to update a wiki page with the status of their task
[21:18] <nijaba> we just need to find a volunteer to update the wiki with actions from the previous week
[21:19] <mathiaz> I'll take care of updating the wiki page and nagging people to give a status update.
[21:19] <mathiaz> s/updating/coordinating/
[21:19] <nijaba> mathiaz: \o/
[21:20] <mathiaz> ACTION: mathiaz to coordinate status reporting via a wiki page.
[21:20] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to coordinate status reporting via a wiki page.
[21:20] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to coordinate status reporting via a wiki page.
[21:20]  * soren hugs mathiaz 
[21:20] <soren> Awesome!
[21:20]  * nijaba hugs mathiaz too
[21:20] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Mentoring program
[21:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mentoring program
[21:21] <mathiaz> So I've been thinking about the mentoring program again.
[21:21] <mathiaz> I've got another proposal - I'd like a really lightweight program.
[21:21] <mathiaz> To restate, the target population is people that want to contribute to ubuntu but don't know how.
[21:22] <nealmcb> or don't know how much fun it is :-)
[21:22] <mathiaz> So I'm throwing the idea of having a guidance counselor rather than having a real mentoring program
[21:23] <mathiaz> the idea being that potential contributor would get in touch with a member of the ubuntu-server team, they'd figure out how he could help the server team
[21:23] <mathiaz> according to the user's interests, a simple task would be assigned
[21:24] <nealmcb> how about sending ambassadors/recruiters to the loco team meetings on irc?
[21:24] <mathiaz> and once the task has been completed the prospectiv user is out of the guidance program.
[21:24] <mathiaz> nealmcb: sure - that's another approach.
[21:24] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I'd put that in the recruiting effort task.
[21:25] <soren> nealmcb: There's a *lot* of LoCo's.
[21:25] <mathiaz> nealmcb: but I'd rather setup a program to help them getting on board.
[21:25] <nealmcb> yup - it precedes what you're sketching out
[21:26] <ivoks> ok, so... one simple task with guidance
[21:26] <mathiaz> nealmcb: precedes in terms of workflow, but follows in terms of building the program
[21:26] <ivoks> and after that?
[21:26] <mathiaz> ivoks: well - it's up to the user to keep contributing.
[21:26] <mathiaz> ivoks: by the end of the task he should have been in contact with the rest of the team
[21:27] <nealmcb> mathiaz: yes - having a structure to help new recruits should precede getting recruits.  soren: yeah.  we could start with locos we have some connections with.  E.g. I've made the pitch at my loco
[21:27] <nealmcb> mathiaz: yes
[21:27] <mathiaz> ivoks: and should know where to asks questions.
[21:27] <ivoks> i see your point
[21:28] <mathiaz> So any thought on this ?
[21:28] <mathiaz> What could be a good name for the program ?
[21:28] <soren> nealmcb: I guess that works.
[21:28] <ivoks> 'Make your self at home'
[21:28] <soren> 'Make yourself@home' :(
[21:28] <nealmcb> ivoks: yes - a sense of connection and comfort about asking questions is very helpful
[21:29] <ivoks> soren: make
[21:29] <mathiaz> I thought of Guidance Counselor
[21:29] <nealmcb> soren: it that the singularity approaching nearer?
[21:29] <soren> ivoks: :)
[21:29] <nijaba> mathiaz: sounds like Woopy role in Star Treck TNG
[21:29] <soren> nealmcb: :S
[21:30] <soren> nijaba: Haha!
[21:30] <sommer> mathiaz: shouldn't "server" be in there somewhere?
[21:30] <mathiaz> ok. So I'll send an email to ubuntu-server with this new proposal to get some feedback.
[21:30] <nealmcb> soren: looks like an alien/evolved smile to me....
[21:30] <mathiaz> sommer: yes.
[21:30] <sommer> server woopy?
[21:31] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send a proposal to ubuntu-server about the mentoring program
[21:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send a proposal to ubuntu-server about the mentoring program
[21:31] <mathiaz> ok - that's all from me about the way the server team works and could grow :)
[21:31] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] bacula status
[21:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  bacula status
[21:31] <ivoks> eh...
[21:31]  * ivoks steps out, in front of the crew, with tears in his eyes...
[21:31] <soren> nealmcb: That's what I was trying to do, so great! :)
[21:32] <ivoks> i'm sorry, it took to long, i had to work on some other things in life
[21:32] <mathiaz> ivoks: are you still working on it ?
[21:32] <nijaba> ivoks: we know you did your best
[21:32] <ivoks> but big part is done and i promise new bacula will be uploaded in 3-4 days
[21:32] <mathiaz> ivoks: we could always to get FF exception
[21:32] <ivoks> let's say 99% is done
[21:33] <ivoks> i just wanted to clear this sqlite dilema
[21:33] <nealmcb> ivoks: you've earned some slack many times over :-)
[21:33] <soren> I forget... What's the sqlite problem?
[21:33] <nijaba> ivoks: that should not be a pb for much longer
[21:33] <ivoks> soren: sqlite binary isn't in main, and -sqlite version depends on it
[21:34] <zul> uh..fun
[21:34] <nijaba> soren: but I have been talking with doko about it
[21:34] <nijaba> and it should not be a real pb
[21:34] <mathiaz> ivoks: before uploading a new bacula in universe, you may wanna get in touch with the MOTU release team
[21:34] <ivoks> i've stripped everything else, dbconfig, wxwidgets, qt, libjconv...
[21:35] <soren> ivoks: What does bacula need anything but the library for?
[21:35] <nijaba> since the only thing missing is the CLI
[21:35] <mathiaz> ivoks: to make sure that the changes you're about to do are ok for FF or get a FF exception.
[21:35] <ivoks> soren: it populates sqlite db with binary
[21:35] <ivoks> mathiaz: ack
[21:35] <soren> ivoks: Ah.
[21:36] <ivoks> soren: or upgrades db
[21:37] <ivoks> so, any plans to move sqlite to main? :)
[21:37] <mathiaz> [ACTION] ivoks will get in touch with the MOTU release team to get an FF exception before uploading bacula to universe
[21:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ivoks will get in touch with the MOTU release team to get an FF exception before uploading bacula to universe
[21:37] <mathiaz> ivoks: it's already done.
[21:37] <mathiaz> ivoks: or will be within a few days.
[21:37] <ivoks> great
[21:37] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server Survey
[21:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Survey
[21:37] <nijaba> mathiaz: well, should, once a good look has been given to it
[21:38] <soren> The source is already in main, so it's usually not a problem to move the binary.
[21:38] <mathiaz> nijaba: could give a quick update the server survey and this lemon thiggy ?
[21:38] <nijaba> Ok, so Faulkes and I have been working on this survey
[21:38] <nijaba> there is a first version running in LimeSurvey
[21:38] <nijaba> I need volunteers to test it
[21:39] <zul> remind me again whats LimeSurvey?
[21:39] <mathiaz> nijaba: what is LimeSurver ?
[21:39] <nijaba> I already found one bug in Limesurvey on some condition testing
[21:39] <nijaba> limesurvey.org
[21:39] <nijaba> a tool to produce and conduct survey
[21:40] <nijaba> php based, won the Trophee du Libre this year, enterprise category
[21:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: is this a web service ?
[21:40] <nijaba> it is a web app
[21:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: or an application you need a server to run on ?
[21:40] <mathiaz> nijaba: where will you host the web app ?
[21:41] <nijaba> it is on www.nijaba.info
[21:41] <nijaba> but I do not want to open it to public there
[21:41] <nijaba> so I have to issue accounts to volunteers
[21:41] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok. So where will you host it when doing the "real" survey ?
[21:42] <nijaba> discussing this with newz2000 ATM
[21:42] <nealmcb> I'm a little unclear on the audience for the survey and what it is intended to accomplish
[21:42] <mathiaz> nijaba: it may be interesting to use this tool in the Ubuntu community as a whole.
[21:43] <nijaba> nealmcb: the goal is to gather as much feedback as possible from or user comunity in order to know what they are expecting from us
[21:43] <nijaba> mathiaz: agreed
[21:43] <nealmcb> and e.g. will the results be generally available, or just to the team, or what
[21:43] <nijaba> nealmcb: I was thinking to follow the same path as alfresco did, but needs to be discussed a bit
[21:44] <nijaba> nealmcb: not sure if all answers should be made public
[21:44] <nealmcb> alfresco?
[21:44] <nijaba> nealmcb: http://www.alfresco.com/community/barometer/
[21:44] <nealmcb> and how to get a good sampling of likely respondents
[21:45] <nijaba> that will need some publicity...
[21:45] <nijaba> I mean posting in forum, ml, etc...
[21:45] <nealmcb> interesting link - thanks
[21:45] <mathiaz> nijaba: right.
[21:46] <nealmcb> e.g. covering both home/individual users, nonprofits, enterprises, etc
[21:46] <mathiaz> So once you've setup a test instance you need to some volunteers to test the survey
[21:46] <mathiaz> and the web app
[21:46] <nijaba> it is already up
[21:46] <nijaba> I am just waiting for 1 bug fix ATM
[21:47] <mathiaz> nijaba: so you're just looking for volunteers ?
[21:47] <nijaba> (actually trying to fix it myself)
[21:47] <nijaba> mathiaz: pretty much
[21:47]  * sommer volunteers for survey testing
[21:47] <mathiaz> nijaba: they should contact via email ?
[21:47] <nijaba> that would be the best way
[21:47] <mathiaz> nijaba: ok.
[21:47] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[21:48] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Forums activity
[21:48] <MootBot> New Topic:  Forums activity
[21:48] <mathiaz> faulkes- is not available to join the meeting.
[21:48] <mathiaz> He sent me an email stating that the sticky post in the Server Forum has been posted.
[21:49] <mathiaz> And he is working with nijaba on the survey.
[21:49] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Documentation
[21:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Documentation
[21:49] <mathiaz> sommer: I've seen some discussion on the server guide.
[21:50] <nealmcb> http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7
[21:50] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=7
[21:50] <sommer> yep, mostly my misunderstanding about which directory we're developing in going forward
[21:50] <mathiaz> I haven't answered on the thread, but it'd make sense to only have one branch to maintain the server guide
[21:50] <nijaba> mathiaz: yes, it would.
[21:50] <sommer> mathiaz: agreed
[21:51] <nijaba> The MOTD feature request is surfacing again as well
[21:51] <sommer> was there any decision on that?
[21:52] <mathiaz> yes - The other problem is to install the serverguide on an ubuntu-server
[21:52] <sommer> I think the instruction on viewing the docs from console is the right approach
[21:52] <mathiaz> there isn't any ubuntu-server seed at the moment.
[21:52] <mathiaz> sommer: agreed. but we need to install the serverguide on ubuntu-server
[21:52] <sommer> mathiaz: sure, is it a size issue?
[21:53] <mathiaz> sommer: more a seed issue I think.
[21:53] <nijaba> so we should ask for a server-install and server-supported seeds
[21:53] <nijaba> server-install for default install
[21:54] <nijaba> server-supported to sort which package in supported are there because of server and supported for 5y
[21:54] <mathiaz> nijaba: right - server-supported is server-ship I think.
[21:54] <nijaba> mathiaz: not in cjwatson point of view, AFAIK
[21:54] <mathiaz> the default install for ubuntu-server is the ubuntu-standard seed.
[21:54] <nealmcb> Interesting sticky server post from last year about the ubuntu "mindset" for server security (vs the "windows mindset"), might inspire some documentation (or be worth improving on - I haven't read it yet): http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=510812
[21:55] <mathiaz> nijaba: it may worth to review the seed state then. I think he started to reorganize them.
[21:55] <nijaba> mathiaz: I think so too
[21:55] <sommer> nealmcb: cool, I'll take a look
[21:56] <mathiaz> So to keep things moving - I won't do the Roadmap review.
[21:56] <nealmcb> sommer: :-)
[21:56] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[21:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[21:57] <sommer> ebox status?
[21:57] <nealmcb> any more ebox updates?
[21:57] <zul> just one eBox is looking better for Universe
[21:57] <mathiaz> There is the Ubuntu Developer Week going on the whole week.
[21:57] <nealmcb> :-)
[21:57] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperWeek
[21:58] <nealmcb> zul: I.e. "only for universe"? or "nearly ready to push to universe"?
[21:58] <nijaba> Great session by Soren yesterday
[21:58] <soren> \o/
[21:58]  * nealmcb missed it - oops!  busy life....
[21:58] <zul> nealmcb: almost ready to push to universe have to get a second pair of eyes to look at it first
[21:58] <nealmcb> zul: great - thanks!
[21:59] <nijaba> zul: you'll have plenty of eyes next week I guess :)
[21:59] <zul> oh I will, I can corner them as well :)
[21:59] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[21:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
[21:59] <mathiaz> same time, same place ?
[22:00] <nijaba> o/
[22:00] <ivoks> ack
[22:00] <sommer> o//
[22:00] <ivoks> _o/
[22:00]  * nijaba thinks that sommer tries to cheat
[22:01] <mathiaz> Ok - granted. Thanks all for coming.
[22:01] <sommer> it's my happy pose
[22:01] <nijaba> :)
[22:01] <ogra_cmpc> nijaba, he's clapping hands
[22:01] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[22:01] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 22:01.
[22:01] <ivoks> another one longer than 1 hour :D
[22:01] <soren> \m/
[22:01] <nijaba> thanks *
[22:02] <sommer> later all
[22:02] <nxvl_work> oh i'm late again
[22:02] <nealmcb> sommer: no - it is the backslash that you need two of:  \\o
[22:02] <nealmcb> :-)
[22:02] <sommer> nealmcb: heh... but I'm right handed
[22:02] <nealmcb> and I'm lookng at you and that is your right hand :-)
[22:03] <sommer> :-)
[22:03] <nealmcb> smiles - always fun.  later!
[22:05] <isaac> .oart
[22:05] <ivoks> see you
[22:10] <cjwatson> nijaba,mathiaz: the reason why it doesn't work to just say that server-ship == server support is that it simply isn't true. There's server-type stuff in supported that we don't put on the CD. Likewise there's desktop-type stuff in supported that we don't put on the desktop or alternate CDs. The problem at the moment is that there is no straightforward way for us to divide the stuff up that's in supported but in neither deskto
[22:11] <soren> cjwatson: You got cut off at "in neither deskt"
[22:11] <nijaba> cjwatson: thanks for clarifying this
[22:11] <cjwatson> in neither desktop nor server.
[22:12] <cjwatson> but yes it may be an issue that the default server install is identical to standard. perhaps ... I'd like you guys to think hard before changing that and not do it just 'cos, but we're happy to change that if instructed
[22:12] <cjwatson> if it's just for documentation, an alternative is to unpack that documentation on the CD somewhere
[22:13] <mathiaz> cjwatson: the idea is to also the serveguide package installed by default during a server installaion.
[22:13] <nijaba> cjwatson: 2 issues: add packages on CD that would be installed by default is one
[22:13] <nijaba> cjwatson: second is too be able to sort supported packages that are not on CD between server and desktop
[22:14] <nijaba> hence my proposal to have server-supported
[22:14] <nijaba> cjwatson: I can also start working on the sorting of supported if that would help
[22:18] <cjwatson> mathiaz: if it's just that documentation package, I think it might be better off just unpacked on the CD. If it's more than that, that's where I'm asking that you guys think hard because I know traditionally the rationale was that a server install should be pretty minimal by default.
[22:18] <cjwatson> nijaba: it is not yet obvious to me whether server ought to be defined inclusively or exclusively
[22:18] <cjwatson> nijaba: that is, it may be that it is easier to work on a desktop-supported and say that server is everything else
[22:18] <cjwatson> we clearly have to have one of them be "everything else"
[22:18] <nijaba> cjwatson: might be
[22:19] <mathiaz> cjwatson: the only package that we'd like to get installed by default is the serverguide documentation.
[22:19] <nijaba> cjwatson: but if it help for me to look at what server needs out of supported, let me know
[22:20] <mathiaz> cjwatson: if this can be done by unpacking it on the CD it'd be great.
[22:20] <mathiaz> cjwatson: adding a seed just for one package doesn't make sense.
[22:20] <cjwatson> mathiaz: by which I mean, leave the CD in and browse it with w3m
[22:20] <cjwatson> or equivalent
[22:20] <cjwatson> we do that for the installation guide, although admittedly there's a better and more obvious rationale there
[22:20] <nijaba> cjwatson: not that easy, lots of server deployed without physocal CD
[22:21] <mathiaz> cjwatson: ah... It'd be combined with a motd pointing to the server guide
[22:21] <cjwatson> yeah, my concern is a seed and supporting infrastructure for a single package
[22:21] <nijaba> what about a task that's selected by default?
[22:22] <cjwatson> nijaba: the mechanism is not a problem. I know how to do it.
[22:22] <cjwatson> (I implemented 90% of this infrastructure)
[22:22] <mathiaz> OTOH installing the serverguide would contradict the principle of having a minimal install
[22:22] <cjwatson> (actually that's probably not fair, Scott did a chunk of it before me, but still :-) )
[22:23] <cjwatson> so I just want to make sure that you guys have thought about it
[22:23] <mathiaz> I can see server administrator complaining that this a waste of space and having the serverguide on a web server in a production environment doesn't make sense.
[22:23] <cjwatson> if it's what you want, then we can do it
[22:24] <mathiaz> cjwatson: right. I'm still not 100% convinced that we should do this (see my comment above). But at least we know we can do it technically.
[22:24] <nijaba> I'd vote for default tasksel, so one can avoid installing in automated deployments
[22:24] <cjwatson> nijaba: (FYI it's not currently possible to have a task that's selected by default and still have the question asked; however this is a bug that we should fix for other reasons too)
[22:24] <mathiaz> cjwatson: thanks for the input.
[22:24] <cjwatson> (at least not by preseeding; standard is hacked in explicitly)
[22:25] <cjwatson> if you decide you want it done, file a bug on the ubuntu-cdimage project and we'll make it happen
[22:25] <nijaba> cjwatson: is tis bug teacked somewhere?
[22:25] <nijaba> I meant *Tracked
[22:26] <cjwatson> nijaba: I think it may only be in my head, though I thought the ubuntustudio guys had a bug about it somewhere
[22:26] <nijaba> mathiaz: I think we should discuss and propose a solution during sprint next week
[22:26] <mathiaz> nijaba: yes.
[22:27] <cjwatson> but, that's not really your problem, it's an implementation detail
[22:27] <nijaba> cjwatson: more on this next week.  Thanks a lot for your input
[22:27] <cjwatson> no problem
[23:02] <Riddell> are people here for a meeting?
[23:02] <nosrednaekim> is there anything to meet about?
[23:02] <coreymon77> oh come on
[23:02] <Riddell> nothing up on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Meetings
[23:02] <coreymon77> i finally make it and then there is nothing?
[23:02] <Riddell> except nosrednaekim membership
[23:03] <seele> yepper
[23:03] <coreymon77> i just cant win can i?
[23:03] <Riddell> coreymon77: got any agenda items?
[23:03] <coreymon77> not really
[23:03] <Riddell> seele: is that an agenda item?
[23:03] <coreymon77> the reason i wanted to come is because i wanted to know what we talk about
[23:04] <nosrednaekim> ha... i'll remove myself from the agenda item
[23:04] <seele> Riddell: no.. i was answering "here" for a meeting :)
[23:05] <coreymon77> man, i really just cant win
[23:05] <coreymon77> :P
[23:05] <Riddell> oh, anyone want to write the team report?
[23:05]  * nosrednaekim thinks up a topic real fast...... are we putting Koffice2 instead of Open office on the kde4 CD?
[23:06] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: Koffice2 won't be ready in time
[23:06] <coreymon77> umm
[23:06] <Riddell> they don't want alphas or betas going into general use I believe
[23:06] <nosrednaekim> ah.. ok
[23:06] <coreymon77> anyone know when kde4 konv will be ready, im waiting for it so that it can be ported to mac
[23:07] <nosrednaekim> coreymon77 » uhh I'm not sure if anyone is even working on it
[23:07] <coreymon77> wow, this is gonna take a while
[23:07] <seele> Riddell: is koffice2 still schedules for July for 4.1?
[23:07] <Riddell> seele: april or may time I believe
[23:07] <coreymon77> oh well, i guess ill have to stick with x11.app
[23:08] <Riddell> so we could include it if we did a KDE 4.1 Kubuntu release
[23:08] <coreymon77> havent we already done so?
[23:08] <coreymon77> oh no
[23:08] <coreymon77> thats 4.0.1 isnt it?
[23:08] <Riddell> coreymon77: only kexi and krita, and that's when we have spce
[23:08] <Riddell> yes
[23:09] <coreymon77> hmm
[23:09] <coreymon77> one thing should be worked on
[23:09] <coreymon77> kde4's ability on lower resolution monitors
[23:09] <coreymon77> i can barely do anything on my dell box
[23:09] <Riddell> meaning interfaces which don't fit?
[23:09] <coreymon77> yup
[23:10] <coreymon77> everything is squished
[23:10] <coreymon77> taskbar is tiny, desktop holds nothing
[23:10] <coreymon77> etc
[23:10] <Riddell> that's an upstream issue essentially.  it is important though, especially with olpc/eeepc machines coming out
[23:10] <coreymon77> and this is with a 1024x768 monitor
[23:10] <coreymon77> nothing fits
[23:10] <Riddell> that's what I use
[23:10] <Riddell> works for me
[23:11] <coreymon77> doesnt seem to for mine
[23:11] <coreymon77> and with anything smaller that that
[23:11] <coreymon77> than that*
[23:11] <coreymon77> i cant imagine
[23:11] <nosrednaekim> yeah, its not too bad on my 800 tall monitor.
[23:11] <coreymon77> not too bad is not good enough
[23:11] <coreymon77> this is kde4, this is what everyone has been waiting for
[23:12] <apachelogger_> correction, this is KDE 4.0.x
[23:12] <nosrednaekim> Riddell » we are in feature freeze? does that mean if I wanted to add a feature to the compiz-configurator, I couldn't?
[23:12] <coreymon77> and with small and light computers/lappys gaining popularity
[23:12] <coreymon77> thats a problem
[23:12] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: it would need an exception from the release team.  which includes me
[23:12] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: oh, did you add a .desktop file and a main inclusion report?
[23:13] <nosrednaekim> Riddell » neither.... what is a main inclusion report? a description?
[23:13] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: it needs a main inclusion report to get into main
[23:13] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[23:13] <Riddell> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/MainInclusionProcess
[23:13] <nosrednaekim> ok
[23:14] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: and it needs a .desktop file to get into the menu
[23:14] <nosrednaekim> yeah I can do that. i'll just copy some other apps' :)
[23:14] <coreymon77> so ya, the poor lower resolution compatability is a slight problem
[23:15] <Riddell> coreymon77: my heart is with you but you need to complain/fix it upstream
[23:15] <coreymon77> okay
[23:16] <coreymon77> so, what else?
[23:17] <Riddell> noone volunteered to write the team report :)
[23:17] <Riddell> testers needed for alpha candidates (but probably right now)
[23:17] <coreymon77> i think its dinner time for me now
[23:17] <iRon> Riddell: could i join kubuntu-members team?
[23:17] <nosrednaekim> I can write the team report I guess
[23:17] <coreymon77> hmm
[23:18] <coreymon77> seems we do have a agenda topic
[23:18] <coreymon77> Riddell: iRon wants membership
[23:18] <Riddell> iRon: do you have a wiki page?
[23:18] <iRon> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/EugeneTretyak
[23:19] <Riddell> iRon: I don't think we have any other council members here just now but they can read the logs and vote later
[23:19] <nosrednaekim> Riddell » is there a template for team reports?
[23:19] <coreymon77> anyways, dinner time
[23:19] <coreymon77> ill be back later
[23:19] <apachelogger_> coreymon77: enjoy
[23:20] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: just bullet points on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/TeamReports/February2008
[23:20] <Riddell> iRon: you forgot kaffeine codec install on the wiki page
[23:21] <Riddell> iRon: why do you like Kubuntu?
[23:21] <iRon> Riddell: kaffeine is not my
[23:22] <Riddell> hmm, it was Sergey says the changelog, my mistake
[23:23] <Riddell> iRon: was it the tutorial day that brought you our way?
[23:24] <iRon> I've used Kubuntu before.. but tutorial day pushed me to contribution in kubuntu
[23:24] <Hobbsee> oh, meeting?
[23:25] <Riddell> Hobbsee: seems so, got questions for iRon?
[23:25] <Riddell> iRon: why do you like Kubuntu?
[23:26] <iRon> I love KDE.. and Kubuntu is the best KDE distro with great community
[23:26] <Hobbsee> wiki.kubuntu.org/EugeneTretyak
[23:26]  * Hobbsee stomps on putty
[23:26] <yuriy> hi. meeting/no meeting?
[23:27] <apachelogger_> meeting
[23:27] <Riddell> seems to be one
[23:27] <apachelogger_> not very much talking going on though ;-)
[23:27] <seele> lol
[23:27]  * seele loves Riddell sarcasm
[23:28] <nosrednaekim> ah.... wish I had a passport :)
[23:28] <Riddell> apachelogger_: think of something to ask iRon!
[23:28] <neversfelde> Riddell: what testing with the alpha CDs is needed?
[23:28] <apachelogger_> aye
[23:29] <apachelogger_> iRon: what, in your opion, best qualifies you to become a kubuntu memeber?
[23:30] <iRon> apachelogger_: I'm a very good programmer.. ;) so I could contribute alot of features in distro
[23:30] <Riddell> iRon: there is an advert on tv here which claims that Ukranians eat pig fat in chocolate, is this true or is it a slur on your good nation by silly English people?
[23:30]  * apachelogger_ likes good programmers
[23:30] <iRon> :))
[23:31] <Riddell> that must mean it is true!
[23:31] <seele> oh ew
[23:31] <iRon> Riddell: yes we have a "bacon in cholocate"
[23:31]  * yuriy tries to remember what it's called
[23:31]  * nosrednaekim does not think pig-fat eating people should become members...
[23:31] <nosrednaekim> ^_^
[23:32] <apachelogger_> iRon: whom would you bug to a) get a patch as soon as possible in main package and b) get a patch as soon as possible in a universe package?
[23:33] <nosrednaekim> Riddell » reading the main inclusion request page...... seems alot of them are packaging related
[23:34] <iRon> apachelogger_: a) LP b) upstream ?
[23:34] <apachelogger_> iRon: any specific persons you would poke to make things faster?
[23:35] <Riddell> nosrednaekim: it's entirely packaging related.  you are requesting to have the package moved to main (after a review of the source)
[23:35] <apachelogger_> iRon: imagine it's a patch for a uber major security issue
[23:35] <iRon> apachelogger_: then i could email to original app developer
[23:36] <nosrednaekim> Riddell » but I know nothing about packaging..... guess I'll learn :)
[23:36] <Riddell> apachelogger_: to be fair, iRon hasn't done any packaging
[23:37] <Riddell> but enough grilling
[23:37] <Riddell> I vote +1 for top code contributions
[23:37] <Riddell> Hobbsee?
[23:37] <apachelogger_> that question was more about general understanding of the contirubtion process :)
[23:37] <apachelogger_> I say get him in :D
[23:38] <Hobbsee> +1 for the neat work
[23:38]  * apachelogger_ is totally looking foward to PolicyKit
[23:38] <nosrednaekim> uhh have to go do some stuff, I'll talk to later about that stuff Riddell
[23:38] <neversfelde> if there are no other agenda points, is it possible that I candidate for kubuntu membership, too?
[23:39] <apachelogger_> neversfelde: do you have a wiki page?
[23:39] <Riddell> iRon: we'll need to wait for another council member to come along and read the logs but it's looking promising, thanks for applying
[23:39] <iRon> Riddell: thanks!
[23:39] <neversfelde> yes, but it is a little bit out of date
[23:39] <neversfelde> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ChristianMangold#preview
[23:40] <neversfelde> i did not plan to go for membership this day, but I saw there is a meeting
[23:40]  * emonkey had the same thought as neversfelde just in the same second but it don't need to be today. :)
[23:40] <apachelogger_> Riddell: I think we can grill neversfelde as well
[23:40] <Riddell> apachelogger_: lets
[23:40] <Riddell> neversfelde: what is jurisprudence?
[23:41] <apachelogger_> emonkey: got a wiki page?
[23:41] <neversfelde> I am a trainee lawyer, isn't jurisprudence the right word for that
[23:41] <emonkey> apachelogger_, of course: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Emonkey
[23:41] <yuriy> to be recognized as a kubuntu contributor, you need to be given a vocabulary test!
[23:41] <apachelogger_> yups
[23:41] <apachelogger_> that is really the worst about it
[23:42] <neversfelde> School is far away ;)
[23:42] <apachelogger_> neversfelde: can you please explain "some basic packaging"
[23:42] <Riddell> neversfelde: could well be, it's just a word from only the legal field
[23:42] <neversfelde> Riddell: It is hard to explain what I am doing
[23:42] <Riddell> neversfelde: do you know if anyone from Kubuntu is going to Chemnitzer Linux-Tage?
[23:42] <neversfelde> I got the first exam, but I have to pass a practical one in July this year
[23:43] <neversfelde> after that I could be a judge or a full lawyer in germay, if I want to be
[23:43] <apachelogger_> hm partical exam = win a case?
[23:43] <nixternal> umm, did I miss something here or what?
[23:43] <seele> neversfelde: what's your specialty (if you have one)
[23:43] <apachelogger_> nixternal: we are meeting
[23:44] <nixternal> nobody invited me :(
[23:44] <Riddell> nixternal: read the logs for iRon and vote
[23:44]  * yuriy forgot "meeting" was a verb for a second
[23:44] <nixternal> will do Riddell
[23:44] <emonkey> Riddell, there will be 4 kubuntu-de.org guys in Chemnitz
[23:44] <apachelogger_> try #2
[23:44] <apachelogger_> neversfelde: can you please explain "some basic packaging"
[23:44] <Riddell> emonkey: excellent
[23:44] <neversfelde> seele: not yet, but I do have an affinity to IT law
[23:44] <neversfelde> of course
[23:45] <seele> :)
[23:45] <neversfelde> apachelogger_: no practical case in exam, I have to do several before and in exam there are several written tests
[23:46]  * apachelogger_ shudders
[23:46] <neversfelde> apachelogger_: I learned some basics, when I backported some packgages for czessis repo
[23:46] <neversfelde> but I must confess it is very basic, I'd love to learn more, when I do have mor time again
[23:47] <Riddell> neversfelde: does Czessi still have a repo?  and can those packages not go into ubuntu?
[23:47] <apachelogger_> neversfelde: so, you are planing on package contributions?
[23:47] <nixternal> iRon and Riddell: I will only give a +1 if iRon sends me some of that "bacon in chocolate"....thinking about it makes me fat!
[23:47] <nixternal> Riddell and iRon: +1 from me :)
[23:47] <Riddell> iRon: congratulations!
[23:47] <apachelogger_> Riddell: it's pretty dead these days, I try to get everything into universe rather than czessi's repo
[23:47] <nixternal> congrats iRon! welcome to the team
[23:48] <neversfelde> Riddell: He does, but there seems to be not enough time alongside his several other contributions
[23:48] <apachelogger_> iRon: congrats
[23:48] <seele> sigh, what an awful thing to do to chocolate :P
[23:48] <apachelogger_> hehe
[23:48] <neversfelde> and it is always planned to get packages in ubuntu, as far as I know
[23:48] <iRon> Thanks everybody!
[23:48] <neversfelde> apachelogger_: yes, but I am not a programmer
[23:49] <neversfelde> my focus is on support, especially in the german speaking forum
[23:49] <Riddell> neversfelde: how busy are the german forums?
[23:49] <nixternal> Riddell: did you get my patch for Ubiquity? and if so, does it look OK to you?
[23:49] <Riddell> nixternal: yes thanks, not looked at it yet
[23:49] <nixternal> ooh, speaking of kubuntu-de, we (I) need to get working on release notes ahead of time so other teams can translate
[23:50] <Riddell> Hobbsee: any questions for neversfelde?
[23:50] <neversfelde> Riddell: not bad, depends on the time after an ubuntu release
[23:51] <neversfelde> I think round about 30 posts average a day
[23:51] <apachelogger_> neversfelde: do you think it is important for kubuntu to support kubuntu focused LoCos better? or is it just as good to have them as part of an ubuntu LoCo?
[23:51] <nixternal> oh man, another lawyer-in-training?
[23:51]  * nixternal thinks Ubuntu is gearing up to sue the world with all of the lawyers around here :p
[23:51] <emonkey> 50 posts says the stat
[23:51] <apachelogger_> nixternal: ain't a bad thing, is it? :P
[23:51] <emonkey> 7000 hits per day
[23:51] <nixternal> neversfelde: I take it you are going for membership right now?
[23:51] <apachelogger_> nixternal: yes
[23:52] <nixternal> groovy
[23:52]  * nixternal looks for a wiki and lp page
[23:52] <apachelogger_> nixternal: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ChristianMangold
[23:52] <apachelogger_> lp is linked
[23:52] <neversfelde> apachelogger_: nice topic :). I think there should be Kubuntu Locos beneath Ubuntu Locos, ofcourse they should work together as much as possible. I think we practice this in germany on events very well.
[23:52] <neversfelde> nixternal: another?
[23:52] <yuriy> clever question apachelogger_
[23:53] <Riddell> any germans able to advocate neversfelde?
[23:53] <apachelogger_> neversfelde: same question as for iRon - what, in your opion, best qualifies you to become a kubuntu memeber?
[23:53] <nixternal> neversfelde: are the Ubuntu and Kubuntu teams in Germany separated?
[23:54] <neversfelde> apachelogger_: my work in support for kubuntu, especially in the forum.
[23:54] <neversfelde> nixternal: they are
[23:54] <nixternal> hrmm, why is that? why not just a generalize Ubuntu LoCo team that supports everything *buntu?
[23:55] <emonkey> nixternal, yes but we're looking for cooperation if it's make sense
[23:55] <nixternal> gnome people don't cooperate :p
[23:55] <nixternal> just kidding people! :)
[23:55] <neversfelde> I do not know if this is good or bad, I want to give my best for Ubuntu and especially for KDE and so my first home was kubuntu.de.
[23:55] <apachelogger_> Riddell: neversfelde arbeitet wie ein wahnsinniger, und weiß dabei auch noch was er macht, IMHO trägt er als teil von kubuntu-de stark zur präsenz von kubuntu in deutschland bei :P
[23:55] <Riddell> nixternal: their handling of the kubuntu-de.org domain did not endear me to them :(
[23:56] <emonkey> apachelogger_, riddel does not understand german afaik ;)
[23:56] <Riddell> apachelogger_: pardon?
[23:56] <apachelogger_> [00:53] <Riddell> any germans able to advocate neversfelde?
[23:56] <apachelogger_> I just thought you want it in german as well :P
[23:56] <Riddell> ah :)
[23:56] <nixternal> Riddell: ahhh, I knew there was something...honestly, I like the fact of Germany having a Kubuntu team, I would like to see Kubuntu LoCos, because I have witnessed LoCo teams in the US pushing Ubuntu and Ubuntu only
[23:57] <neversfelde> nixternal: I cannot explain that in a few words, especially in english. I think we should work together as good as possible and look what the future brings.
[23:57] <nixternal> neversfelde: if you could work in any one area of Kubuntu right now, what area would that be? which do you find the most intriguing?
[23:57] <Riddell> "<apachelogger_> Riddell: neversfelde works as a  Mad, and also still knows what he does
[23:57] <Riddell> that sounds good
[23:57] <apachelogger_> :D
[23:58] <apachelogger_> Advocate: neversfelde isn't avoiding work, and for some reason he actually also knows what he is doing, IMHO is he, as part of kubuntu-de, responsible for the really strong presence of Kubuntu in Germany
[23:58] <neversfelde> nixternal: I want to learn packaging next, but I do not want to leave the support, so I have to see, how long it takes
[23:58] <apachelogger_> +1 for his support and promotion work
[23:58] <Riddell> neversfelde: do you have the kubuntu exhibition poster stand?
[23:58] <emonkey> Riddell, I think it's still by Czessi ...
[23:58] <nixternal> if so, take a picture of it...I need to get one for an upcoming conference
[23:59] <neversfelde> Riddell: yes it is
[23:59] <Riddell> nixternal: kwwii has the artwork
[23:59] <nixternal> groovy
[23:59] <nixternal> I need a KDE one too...I am representing both actually
[23:59] <Riddell> +1 from me for top kubuntu-de contributions
[23:59] <yuriy> nixternal: speaking of which, i'll probably be doing a kde4 presentation at our LoCo installfest this saturday, so i'm up for suggestions
[23:59] <Riddell> Hobbsee?
[23:59] <neversfelde> I talked to Czessi yesterday about sending it to UDS
[23:59] <nixternal> +1 here
[23:59] <yuriy> nixternal: wrt LoCo's promoting kubuntu
[23:59] <nixternal> k