[00:11] <kirkland> During this launchpad outage, are emailed bug updates to *@bugs.launchpad.net being queued such that those bugs will be updated accordingly when Launchpad comes back online?
[00:14] <Rinchen> kiko, they should be, yes
[00:14] <Rinchen> er
[00:14] <Rinchen> kirkland, ^^
[00:15] <Rinchen> habit :-)
[00:19] <kirkland> Rinchen: cool, thanks ;-)
[00:20] <kirkland> Rinchen: I'll step back out so that kiko gets his "ki" back ;-)
[00:20] <Rinchen> lol
[00:20] <kirkland> :-)  bye
[01:03] <bdmurray> The maintenance pages says "We plan to make new a Launchpad release on:" which reads funny to me
[01:06] <kthakore> is launch pad supposed to be down right now?
[01:06] <elmo> kthakore: yes, /topic
[01:06] <elmo> and http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance
[01:06] <kthakore> oh UTC
[01:06] <kthakore> sorry I had the time as 11:00
[01:07] <kthakore> PST
[01:07] <kthakore> my mistake
[01:11] <superm1> how come there was no warning all day when i was using it?
[01:11] <slangasek> there was a countdown for the last hour or so
[01:12] <superm1> oh, of course i haven't touched it in 3 hrs or so :)
[01:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[01:34] <mwhudson_> hello mpt
[01:34] <jamesh> mpt: we aren't launchpadding at the moment
[01:37] <mpt> We're not?
[01:37] <mpt> o i c
[01:40] <Hobbsee> heya mpt 
[01:41] <mpt> hiya Hobbsee 
[01:41] <mpt> I should take this time to figure out why the offline message isn't centered
[01:46] <mpt> aha
[01:46] <mpt> .offline {text-align: center; max-width: 30em; margin: 2em auto;}
[01:47] <mpt> the "margin: 2em auto;" isn't centering it like it's supposed to
[01:52] <Balaams_Miracle> Man, i wish there was some way i could check what time it is at LP HQ
[01:53] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: always UTC :-)
[01:54] <lifeless> thumper: except when its not :)
[01:55] <thumper> lifeless: whaddya mean?
[01:55] <Balaams_Miracle> Heh, but how do i know what time is UTC?
[01:55] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: it depends, where are you?
[01:56] <Balaams_Miracle> I mean, i'm in the Netherlands. 
[01:56] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: isn't it almost 3am there?
[01:56] <Balaams_Miracle> Yes, 2:56 it says
[01:56] <slangasek> by running 'date --utc' or such
[01:56] <thumper> Balaams_Miracle: you're UTC +1
[01:56] <thumper> so subtrace an hour
[01:56] <Balaams_Miracle> Ah, thanks. One more hour to go then...
[01:56] <thumper> subtract
[01:57]  * Balaams_Miracle is already getting withdrawal symptoms
[01:57] <Balaams_Miracle> Need... fix... Must... wait...
[02:01] <Nafallo> Balaams_Miracle: ntp.ubuntu.com
[02:02] <Balaams_Miracle> Nafallo: Yes, that's a time server. I don't know what you are getting at.
[02:03] <Nafallo> Balaams_Miracle: it is in the same location as the LP servers.
[02:03] <Balaams_Miracle> Nafallo: Yes, but my PC isn't.
[02:04] <Nafallo> that wasn't the point...
[02:04] <Nafallo> oh well.
[02:05] <lifeless> thumper: dst
[02:24] <dmb> hey, how much longer is launchpad down for?
[02:24] <dmb> i'm too lazy to convert timezones
[02:24] <elmo> dmb:  /topic 
[02:25] <dmb> elmo: i'm too lazy to convert timezones
[02:25] <lifeless> dmb: I'm too lazy to do it for you.
[02:25] <dmb> can you at least tell me if this was the hour that it started?
[02:25] <lifeless> its now 1325 AEDT
[02:26] <ScottK> I'm fairly certain he can.
[02:26] <dmb> ok, thanks
[02:26] <dmb> thats all i needed to know :D
[02:45] <ubotu> New bug: #193857 in launchpad-bazaar "cherrypy error on unmirrored branches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193857
[02:46] <ubotu> New bug: #193845 in malone ""Sort by importance" sorts "Unknown" (from external bug trackers) on top" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193845
[02:48] <ScottK> Am I reading the LP front page correctly... I'm now automatically subscribed to any bug I comment on?
[02:50] <RAOF> Woah.  The "Delete Cache" page action may want some renaming :)
[02:54] <RAOF> I suspect that hitting "add checked words to dictionary" is not meant to result in "An error occurred in a Python script"
[03:04] <mpt> ScottK, no, but you can subscribe to all the bug reports associated with a milestone/project/package/distribution
[03:05] <mpt> For example, you could subscribe to Ubuntu upstart and be notified of all bug reports about that package
[03:05] <ScottK> But I could do that before.
[03:06] <mpt> How?
[03:06] <ScottK> Make myself a bug contact for the package
[03:07] <ScottK> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav bug subscriptions as an example of one I've been subscribed to for a long time
[03:10] <jamesh> ScottK: the idea is to separate out the idea of being a "bug contact" (someone responsible for QA) and a "subscriber"
[03:11]  * mpt scratches his head at "For Ubuntu: There are no bug subscriptions"
[03:11] <mpt> That doesn't make sense
[03:11] <jamesh> ScottK: someone doing QA may be given permissions to e.g. alter bug importances (something a project may want to restrict), which a subscriber wouldn't be able to
[03:12] <jamesh> mpt: it just has a bug contact ...
[03:13] <mpt> I mean, it's not true
[03:13] <mpt> There are thousands of bug subscriptions in Ubuntu
[03:14] <mpt> I think it means "Nobody is subscribed to all of Ubuntu's bugs"
[03:14] <elmo> (which isn't true, there's a mailing list for them)
[03:16] <mpt> yeah
[03:18] <ScottK> I see.  Well I never ascribed any more to bug contact than I got sent a copy of the bug
[03:20] <ScottK> Signing up as bug contact doesn't give any extra powers, so I really don't understand the difference?
[03:23] <mpt> Maybe now the term can be changed to something more obvious
[03:23] <ScottK> Dunno.  AFAICT you've just invented a new feature functionally identical to the old one.
[03:24] <mpt> I don't know if it was possible to have multiple package bug contacts in the past
[03:24] <mpt> but it wasn't possible to have multiple people subscribed to all bugs for a distribution or project, unless a dummy team was created to put them in.
[03:24] <ScottK> The clamav example I showed a few minutes ago had three and has had for a long time.
[03:25] <mpt> So this might not be anything new for packages, but it's new for projects and distributions. And milestones.
[03:25] <ScottK> OK.  That I can see.  You might correct the description then.
[03:36] <mpt> "Subscribe to bugmail"?
[03:37] <mpt> oh, "bug mail"
[03:37] <jamesh> ScottK: there were no extra powers given to "bug contacts" previously because there were no restrictions on who could become a bug contact
[03:38] <jamesh> that'll change in future
[03:38] <ScottK> jamesh: Are there restrictions now?
[03:38] <ScottK> So are all the current bug contacts going to be automatically downgraded then?
[03:39] <jamesh> ScottK: all bug contacts were converted to subscriptions
[03:40] <jamesh> ScottK: and it isn't exactly a downgrade, since it is giving you the same features as before
[03:40] <ScottK> OK.
[03:40] <jamesh> but you can now also subscribe to projects
[03:40] <jamesh> and the subscription support can be extended to more than just bugs
[03:41] <ubotu> New bug: #193870 in malone "Source package page makes false claims about "Bug subscriptions"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193870
[03:41]  * ScottK didn't file that one.
[03:41] <ScottK> jamesh: None of which sounds like it's of any interest to Ubuntu developers, just other projects.
[03:42] <ScottK> BTW, I did read the feature announcement.  This is all very confusing.
[03:43] <jamesh> ScottK: it might not offer much benefit yet, but that will change in future
[03:43] <ScottK> "Launchpad automatically sends you emails whenever there's an update to a bug that you've reported, is assigned to you or that you've commented on." sounds to me like any bug I comment on I'll start getting bug mail on.
[03:43] <comperr> heh - I was here before - but I forgot who I was speaking too - who is the pastebinit creator again ?
[03:44] <jamesh> ScottK: one of the planned features is to allow more fine grained control over the notifications too
[03:45] <jamesh> ScottK: e.g. you might only care when bugs are created or fixed for a package, but not care about every single comment made to those bugs
[03:46] <ScottK> OK, but how does changing bug contacts to bug subscriptions help that?  So far you've just changed the name.
[03:47] <jamesh> just think of it as a new name for the old feature that more accurately describes its purpose, if that helps.
[03:47] <ScottK> Then don't announce it as a NEW feature.
[03:48] <jamesh> ... it _is_ a new feature
[03:48] <ScottK> Not for packages it's not.  It's got a new name with no functional differences
[03:49] <jamesh> e.g. you couldn't previously subscribe to all bugs targeted at ubuntu-8.04, for instance
[03:49] <ScottK> That's true, but unrelated to packages.
[03:50] <ScottK> I'm not saying that for milestones, projects, etc it's not new, but for packages it's not new.
[04:05] <ubotu> New bug: #193872 in malone "Can't subscribe to all something's bug reports from its Bugs page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193872
[04:05] <ubotu> New bug: #193873 in launchpad "Nobody wants to "Subscribe to bug mail"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193873
[04:30] <poolie> any ppa hackers around?
[04:33] <Hobbsee> poolie: devs?  users who know far too much about ppa?
[04:35] <poolie> devs, i guess
[04:36] <poolie> but i worked it out - packages with builddep problems
[04:36] <poolie> don't generate an error, or at least not for a very long time
[04:37] <jamesh> PPA does need improvements w.r.t. timely status updates
[04:37] <poolie> yes
[04:42] <Hobbsee> poolie: you don't get the generated mail?
[04:44] <RAOF> Hobbsee: There's no mail that I've noticed when your PPA package hits depwait.
[04:44] <Hobbsee> RAOF: oh, depwait, yeah
[04:44] <poolie> i think it would be nice if you got, say,
[04:45] <poolie> one mail if it can't immediately be built, or not within 5m
[04:45] <poolie> and another after say 7d, saying "Giving up"
[04:46] <RAOF> Or, rather, tell you immediately if the package it's waiting on isn't also in your PPA's build queue.
[04:46] <RAOF> Or, in fact, shedule the builds based on dependency information :)
[04:46] <Hobbsee> RAOF: you'd probably need the global builds stuff to do that, though.
[04:46] <poolie> well, something like that
[04:46] <poolie> the main point is, _say something_
[04:47] <RAOF> Hobbsee: Oh, I'm sure the reason it's not done like that already is that the infrastructure doesn't support it.
[04:47] <RAOF> It'd be nice if the infrastructure _did_ support it, though :)
[04:47] <lifeless> RAOF: build deps are NPC
[04:48]  * RAOF tries to parse as Not Pre Calculateable
[04:48] <lifeless> RAOF: npcomplete
[04:48] <lifeless> non polynomial 
[04:48] <RAOF> lifeless: Which doesn't mean that you can't solve it.
[04:48] <RAOF> Just that it scales insanely.
[04:49] <RAOF> For the record, I'd use NP-C for NP-complete ;)
[04:49] <lifeless> right; so like many things 'good' but not 'correct' answers are possible with better scaling
[04:49] <Hobbsee> RAOF: dream about it.  but really, don't expect it anytime soon.
[04:49] <lifeless> AIUI thats what happens here
[04:50] <RAOF> I wasn't actually after trawling the entire dependency chain.  Just 'I upload foo which depends on bar, and bar at the same time, please try to build bar first'.
[04:50] <jamesh> build deps are non-player characters
[04:51] <RAOF> Another valid parsing :)
[04:51] <poolie> in https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive, bzrtools 1.2.0-1~bazaar2~edgy1 seems to be a native package or something
[04:52] <poolie> at any rate it has just a .tar, not an orig and diff
[04:52] <poolie> i wonder why
[04:52] <Hobbsee> RAOF: reprio'ing ftw.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> RAOF: and uploading in order, with sufficient gaps, preferably with a script or something, ftw too.
[04:52] <poolie> another approach would be to give people a button saying "build this now"
[04:52] <poolie> or what Hobbsee said
[04:52] <RAOF> poolie: 
[04:52] <RAOF> poolie: That button exists.
[04:52] <Hobbsee> poolie: and how many people do you think *won't* hit that button?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> RAOF: sure, but few have access to it
[04:53] <poolie> really? where?
[04:53] <RAOF> Hobbsee: I'm talking about PPAs right now.  Isn't anyone else?
[04:53] <Hobbsee> you cant see it if you're not a buildd admin.
[04:53] <Hobbsee> you can't rescore for ppa, or ubuntu, unless you're a buildd admin
[04:53] <Hobbsee> am i misunderstanding you?
[04:54] <RAOF> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.  There _is_ a *re*build this now button.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> RAOF: afaik, everyone's talking about ppa's here
[04:54] <jamesh> poolie: "view build records", find the failed build and there is an item in the actions menu to retry it
[04:54] <Hobbsee> RAOF: oh sure.  after it's failed.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> RAOF: what i think poolie's asking for is "let me specify the build order of my packages *before* they go thru and fail"
[04:55] <Hobbsee> it still apperas to take a lot longer than it should for builds to fail, and then have to redo all the builds, in order
[04:55] <RAOF> Yeah.
[07:49] <carlos> morning
[07:50] <Hobbsee> guten morgen carlos!  Wie gehts?
[07:51] <carlos> Hobbsee: I understand the first part, I guess the second part is something like "How's going?", right?
[07:52] <carlos> Hobbsee: so, I'm fine, thanks :-P and you?
[07:52] <Hobbsee> yeah :)
[07:52]  * Hobbsee is doing OK.  dealing with email
[09:01] <philn__> hi
[09:11] <philn__> will #193656 be fixed for next code update?
[09:11] <Fujitsu> bug #193656
[09:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193656 in soyuz "Process-death-row procedure became very slow" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193656 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[09:12] <Fujitsu> As it's critical, it may be fixed within days. If it's not, it will be fixed in about a month.
[09:16] <philn__> Fujitsu: ok... until then i'm stuck, i want to upload a pkg to my PPA but it's always rejected because the old .orig.tag.gz remains on the pool :(
[09:21] <philn__> could someone remove the files from my pool please? ;)
[09:22] <Fujitsu> philn__: When did you delete them? That bug may not be your problem.
[09:22] <philn__> about 13 hours ago
[09:23] <Fujitsu> I suggest waiting a while longer, or incrementing the version number.
[09:24] <philn__> ah you mean the upstream version number
[09:25] <Kmos> https://edge.launchpad.net/ddclient -> how do I remove this?
[09:25] <Kmos> i've registered it
[09:28] <Fujitsu> Kmos: Why should it be removed?
[09:29] <Kmos> Fujitsu: because I support it, and I like to remove it
[09:29] <Fujitsu> It's a valid project, and has no reason to be removed.
[09:29] <Kmos> or else, give another person the register status
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Right, that's different.
[09:29] <Kmos> but it has my contact
[09:29] <Fujitsu> Assign it to registry.
[09:29] <Fujitsu> ~registry, that is.
[09:30] <Kmos> how to do it ?
[09:30] <Fujitsu> Change owner, or registrant, or whatever it is. There are three different terms used on the page for that one thing.
[09:32] <Kmos> i'll do it
[09:32] <Kmos> thanks
[09:32] <Kmos> "maintainer" is there too
[09:32] <Kmos> lol
[09:32] <Fujitsu> That's it, yes.
[09:33] <Kmos> There's no person/team named '~registry' in Launchpad.
[09:33] <Kmos> ups
[09:33] <Kmos> without the ~
[09:33] <Kmos> done
[09:34] <Kmos> Bug contact:  	 Marco Rodrigues
[09:34] <Kmos> Security contact: 	Marco Rodrigues
[09:34] <Kmos> still mine
[09:34] <Kmos> lol
[09:34] <Fujitsu> You need to remove yourself as both.
[09:36] <Kmos> that was before i change maintainer
[09:36] <Kmos> now i can't change anything
[09:36] <Kmos> :(
[09:36] <Fujitsu> Can one really not remove oneself from either of those positions!?
[09:36] <Kmos> i don't think so
[09:36] <Fujitsu> That's almost as crazy as Blueprint's assigning.
[09:37] <Kmos> the menu links to do that, have been disabled
[09:37] <Kmos> after i change maintainer
[09:37] <TankEnMate> is there a way on launchpad to get bzr repos using rsync?
[09:37] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: What's wrong with HTTP?
[09:37] <Kmos> Fujitsu: could you report i as bugg? :)
[09:37] <Kmos> *bug
[09:37] <TankEnMate> bzr initial checkouts are a big turn off
[09:37] <Fujitsu> Kmos: You'll need to poke an admin to remove you as them, then. I may well file a bug on that.
[09:37] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: If you own the branch, you can use bzr+ssh.
[09:38] <Kmos> Fujitsu: thanks
[09:38] <TankEnMate> i just did a bzr initial check out, it took over 5 minutes, used over 500M of RAM and blew away my file cache...
[09:38] <LarstiQ> Fujitsu: or in general have access to?
[09:38] <Fujitsu> LarstiQ: Only if you have write access, no?
[09:38] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: 500M RAM!?
[09:38] <LarstiQ> Fujitsu: that is what I meant indeed. (So membership of team owning it also works)
[09:38] <TankEnMate> I used bzr+ssh to check out.. it took ages, sucked everything into RAM and only _then_ wrote out..
[09:39] <Fujitsu> LarstiQ: Being a member of the team that owns it means you own it.
[09:39] <LarstiQ> Fujitsu: fair enough, I disagree on the terminology, but I understand you now :)
[09:39] <TankEnMate> If I didn't have to check this stuff out it would have turned my right off...
[09:39] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: How big is the branch?
[09:39] <TankEnMate> F: just a tick
[09:39] <Fujitsu> I have a branch or two that takes hours, but it's gigantic.
[09:39] <Fujitsu> Most take a few seconds.
[09:40] <TankEnMate> 489M    .
[09:40] <Fujitsu> 5 minutes for 489M isn't bad.
[09:40] <TankEnMate> F: why does it want to suck everything into RAM first?!? what a waste!
[09:41] <Fujitsu> TankEnMate: That'd be bzr's problem.
[09:41] <TankEnMate> A check out should really be nothing more than a straight copy of the head
[09:41] <Fujitsu> bzr co --lightweight
[09:41] <LarstiQ> TankEnMate: that would be a lightweight checkout, not a full one
[09:41] <TankEnMate> Yeah I know it is bzr's problem, then why use bzr, but thats a whole different kettle of fish..
[09:42] <Fujitsu> bzr works really well most of the time.
[09:42] <TankEnMate> Ahhh maybe for first timers checking out a tree you should inform them to do a lightweight checkout..
[09:42] <TankEnMate> F: I must admit I am used to git
[09:46] <TankEnMate> Hmm I'm going to email the ubuntu desktop course guys and get them to mention the lightweight checkout for first timers..
[09:46] <lifeless> TankEnMate: what version of bzr were you using?
[09:46] <lifeless> TankEnMate: and what format is the tree in, also does it have very large files? we generally flush stuff to disk as soon as each delta is verified
[09:46] <TankEnMate> 1.0-1~gutsy1 (/var/lib/apt/lists/gb.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_gutsy-backports_main_binary-i386_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)
[09:46] <lifeless> TankEnMate: you will find 1.2 to be better
[09:47] <TankEnMate> lifeless: ack
[09:47] <lifeless> TankEnMate: doing a lightweight checkout is probably not the right thing for first timers; lightweight checkouts have no local history, so it performs worse overall.
[09:47] <TankEnMate> lifeless: bzr 1.2 isn't in backports though..
[09:47] <lifeless> TankEnMate: its in the bzr team ppa
[09:47] <TankEnMate> lifeless: so how to do a quick clone then?
[09:48] <TankEnMate> lifeless: ack, I'm just trying to figure an easy way to make first time d/ls for large repos not have to have to jump through too many hoops
[09:49] <lifeless> TankEnMate: 'bzr branch' or 'bzr checkout' (depending on whether you want a new branch or commit access to an existing branch)
[09:49] <lifeless> TankEnMate: thats all thats needed.
[09:50] <TankEnMate> lifeless: yes, but it chews soo much memory..
[09:50] <TankEnMate> over 500M on my machine to check out..
[09:50] <lifeless> TankEnMate: in 1.0. Which has an older network protocol that is less efficient. 
[09:50] <TankEnMate> and it only starts writing out files once its all in RAM..
[09:50] <lifeless> TankEnMate: test with the current release; then discuss with bzr upstream.
[09:51] <TankEnMate> lifeless: would there be support for 1.2 to go into the official gutsy backports then?
[09:51] <Fujitsu> When it's in Hardy, it will most likely be backported.
[09:51] <lifeless> TankEnMate: you're wrong about the behaviour of bzr in general; whatever you saw is likely a result of backwards compatibility code kicking in.
[09:51] <Fujitsu> A FeatureFreeze exception has been granted for bzr 1.2
[09:51] <lifeless> TankEnMate: thats really unrelated, there is gutsy support in the bzr +ppa.
[09:51] <TankEnMate> lifeless: ahh
[09:51] <lifeless> later folk
[09:52] <TankEnMate> lifeless: I'm trying to get this to work for uneducated desktop users..
[09:52] <Fujitsu> Why do they need such a ridiculously massive tree?
[09:52] <TankEnMate> Fujitsu: its user documentation :)
[09:53] <TankEnMate> Fujitsu: I think I'll just have to set up a server that does nightly builds of the documentation and ships it out to the users...
[09:53] <TankEnMate> Fujitsu: it is for translators..
[09:54] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: they have good natural language skills, not so good computer skills..
[09:54] <Fujitsu> Why not just ship out a tarball of the branch once, and have them pull the branch regularly?
[09:54] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: thats what I was hoping to avoid.. but looks like I will have to do something similar..
[09:55] <Fujitsu> You only have to do it to each machine once.
[09:55] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: I'll probably wind up just burning stuff on to DVDs with a few scripts and send it to them in the post..
[09:56] <TankEnMate> That and bzr 1.2 debs
[09:57] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: can bzr do deltas on binary files? or will it just copy then new ones down in toto?
[09:58] <Fujitsu> It does binary deltas.
[09:58] <TankEnMate> w00t good stuff
[09:59] <TankEnMate> Fujistsu: Do you have the bzr +ppa URI handy?
[09:59] <Fujitsu> https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive, most likely.
[09:59] <TankEnMate> ack, thanks!
[10:01] <TankEnMate> how stable are ppa debs? Good enough to just push to j. random user?
[10:02] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooood evening Launchpadders!
[10:02] <Hobbsee> TankEnMate: surely that depends on how stable the source is?
[10:02] <TankEnMate> pick the Aussie :)
[10:03] <TankEnMate> Hobbsee: Thats kind of what I was asking..
[10:03]  * Fujitsu welcomes mpt back to a sane timezone.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> TankEnMate: right, so if you upload a stable source, then the binary will be stable.
[10:03] <Hobbsee> hte converse is also true
[10:04] <Fujitsu> The bzr devs are one of the only upstreams I trust to make their own packages.
[10:04] <TankEnMate> Hobbsee: not know what ppa stands for I don't have any feel for it..
[10:04] <TankEnMate> F: Thanks..
[10:04] <Hobbsee> TankEnMate: personal package archives?
[10:05] <TankEnMate> I am a Debian user origionally, i use sid myself, but in the past have given stable to clients..
[10:05] <TankEnMate> Hobbsee: thanks!
[10:05] <TankEnMate> I am moving to Ubuntu because it is more up to date for my clients..
[10:06] <mvo> danilos: hello! could you quickly help me with a rosetta export? I got a tarball that looks like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4820/ - why are some po files put into the toplevel dir and some under main/ ? (main is the name of the component)
[10:07] <danilos> mvo: the ones under 'main/' are probably existing translations, and the ones in toplevel are those which have been newly translated in Launchpad
[10:07] <danilos> mvo: I can try fixing it manually, though
[10:08] <mvo> danilos: aha! thanks
[10:08] <danilos> mvo: (i.e. on import, they were inside main/...)
[10:08] <mvo> danilos: right, so those were not touched since the import, but the other ones were?
[10:09] <danilos> mvo: well, it's not actually that useful information
[10:09] <danilos> mvo: it's only that those in main/ have existed in the package as well
[10:10] <danilos> mvo: and I can't actually fix them from the UI; carlos, do we have an existing bug for this (if you happen to know, since we had a similar complaint recently)?
[10:11] <carlos> danilos: yeah, we have a bug about it
[10:11] <carlos> let me look for it...
[10:11] <danilos> carlos: thanks
[10:11] <mvo> danilos, carlos: its not urgent, I was just curious about it
[10:14] <carlos> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+bug/148286
[10:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148286 in rosetta "multiple template export has wrong directory names" [High,Confirmed] 
[10:15] <TankEnMate> brb
[10:30] <ubotu> New bug: #193940 in rosetta "Import queue UI will link to inactive products" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193940
[11:12] <Hobbsee> poolie: good mail
[11:13]  * Fujitsu checks how far read-only-launchpad has been deferred.
[11:14] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: it doesn't matter how long it's been deferred currently.  they'll just keep redeferring it by a month, as they wish.
[11:18] <soren> So... How's the trolling business these days?
[11:19] <lifeless> Fujitsu: TankEnMate: I think you are reinventing the wheel if you ship a tar; bzr _should_ work fine. I repeat - try it with 1.2, if it doesn't do the right thing file bugs.
[11:21]  * Fujitsu only suggested that as an alternative to shipping lots of tarballs regularly.
[11:21] <Fujitsu> soren: My statement was relevant and quite valid.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> mine was probably trolling, but still quite valid none-the-less.
[11:22] <Hobbsee> still, we have delete now.  i can still continue celebrating that.
[11:23] <soren> Fujitsu: I was referring to Hobbsee.
[11:23] <Fujitsu> soren: I see.
[11:24] <Hobbsee> soren: if i actually had a trolling business...trust me, i'd do it better.
[11:24] <soren> mm hm.
[11:26]  * Hobbsee wonders if the rollout docs are finished yet, and if so, where they are
[11:29] <Hobbsee> soren: actually, i'll take my trolling back.  with this rollout, they haven't broken the scripts.
[11:33] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, rock on!  we should be able to get old sources now, too!
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Yep, that was cherrypicked a while back.
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Which also unbroke quite a number of other links.
[11:34] <Hobbsee> hadn't been done when i left, i didn't think
[11:34] <Hobbsee> the trouble of going on holidays :P
[12:14] <Fujitsu> Shouldn't launchpad's Code tab be disabled now that that page and its branches are now private?
[12:46] <cprov-out> Fujitsu: Hobbsee: have you uploaded anything to PPA after the rollout ?
[12:46] <Hobbsee> cprov-out: nope
[12:46] <Hobbsee> cprov-out: i can try if you like, though
[12:47] <cprov> Hobbsee: yes, I would like you to try. It's super-fast ;)
[12:47]  * Hobbsee uploads
[12:48] <Fujitsu> Build creation? Or something is even more super-fast?
[12:49]  * Hobbsee waits
[12:49] <cprov> Fujitsu: yes, build creation on upload-time.
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Yay!
[12:50] <Fujitsu> Very nice.
[12:50] <Hobbsee> \o/
[12:50] <Fujitsu> That is one of the most common questions of late.
[12:51] <cprov> Fujitsu: yes, but now it's *past* :)
[12:51] <Hobbsee> cprov: oh wow!
[12:51] <Hobbsee> build's already started, too!
[12:52] <Hobbsee> wlel done!
[12:52] <Fujitsu> ... wow.
[12:52] <Spads> well that strikes me as luck :)
[12:54] <Hobbsee> and now it says pending.
[12:54] <Fujitsu> Oh, building from accepted in PPA too?
[12:54] <cprov> Hobbsee: great, your moin binaries ETA was 5 minutes
[12:54] <Hobbsee> cprov: was?
[12:55] <Fujitsu> Ooh, changelog on +archive too.
[12:55] <seb128> hi
[12:55] <cprov> publisher is running (:00)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, bigjools did that a while ago
[12:55] <Fujitsu> And publishing stuff.... Very nice.
[12:55] <Hobbsee> hey seb128 
[12:55] <seb128> does anybody there has an idea why gdm launchpad bug comments are sent to their upstream mailinglist?
[12:56] <Hobbsee> cprov: so, are we supposed to be able to access teh binaries as soon as i'ts built?
[12:56] <Hobbsee> seb128: what's the address of the upstream mailing list?
[12:56] <Fujitsu> seb128: All of them!?
[12:56] <kiko> seb128, yes, jcastro and I were talking to the maintainers and they suggested that, but have since found it's not a great idea
[12:57] <seb128> Hobbsee: gdm-list@gnome.org
[12:57] <kiko> seb128, I think they've reverted that -- chat with jcastro 
[12:57] <seb128> ok
[12:57] <Hobbsee> kiko: did they give the reason for why?  i know amarok was doing the same thing
[12:57] <Hobbsee> at lesat for a while
[12:57] <cprov> Hobbsee: no, they have to reach the archive first (being published)
[12:57] <seb128> could you include the desktop team in the discussion where you are doing such changes?
[12:57] <kiko> Hobbsee, why they didn't like it?
[12:57] <Hobbsee> kiko: yes
[12:58] <kiko> Hobbsee, I guess it was a lot of traffic and they didn't prepare the list subscribers properly
[12:58] <kiko> seb128, talk to jcastro 
[12:58] <seb128> kiko: ok, will do, thanks
[12:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: right
[12:58] <kiko> Hobbsee, if you're subscribed and all of a sudden you get this deluge of bugmail..
[12:59] <Hobbsee> kiko: yeah, true.
[12:59] <Hobbsee> kiko: i have that fun every time a team i belong to suddenly gets subscribed to another thing in launchpad.
[12:59] <kiko> same here
[12:59] <Hobbsee> and i wonder "why the hell did launchpad spam me...again???"
[13:00] <Hobbsee> bonus points for the recent mailing list screwup.
[13:00] <kiko> what's that?
[13:00] <Spads> http://sourcefrog.net/weblog/random/angry-moron.html <-- Hobbsee 
[13:01]  * Fujitsu noted the mailing list spam.
[13:01] <Hobbsee> Spads: i got 1600+ mails in the week that i was away.  i really *don't* need more mail to deal with, especially random mail from untested screwups.  please :)
[13:01] <kiko> no idea what you are talking about
[13:02] <Fujitsu> Members of mailing-list-beta-testers get emails about people being accepted into the group.
[13:02] <Hobbsee> kiko: looks like all members of the LP beta testers got spammed with bits of teams being joined to a team, and then being removed from that team, for a while.
[13:02] <Fujitsu> Members are the teams that have mailing lists.
[13:02] <Fujitsu> So the mailing lists get spammed as new teams get permission to get mailing lists.
[13:02] <kiko> and not just admins?
[13:02] <Fujitsu> Apparently not.
[13:02] <Spads> Hobbsee: haha I know, it's just that I love the name "angry moron newsletter" for being subscribed to a list where all the posts are surprised members shouting "TAKE ME OFF THIS SPAM LIST *NOW* YOU CRIMINAL!"
[13:02] <kiko> weird.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> kiko: correct.
[13:03] <ScottK> Members of teams that are indirect members of teams that are in mailing-list-beta-testers get the mails too
[13:03] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Even better.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: oh, lovely.
[13:03] <ScottK> It's been on my list to file a bug, but I haven't gotten to it yet.
[13:03] <Hobbsee> ScottK: which is all of ubuntu-control and above, no?
[13:03] <Hobbsee> er,  ubuntu-buglords?  the old ubuntu-qa?
[13:04] <Fujitsu> ubuntu-bugcontrol, though I liked ubuntu-buglords better.
[13:04]  * Hobbsee wonders exactly how many people that spammed, then.
[13:04] <Hobbsee> Spads: haha :)
[13:04] <Fujitsu> Only those who subscribe. Which is probably not too many.
[13:04] <cprov> Hobbsee: all done for your moin upload, assuming no buildfarm load, source->build->binary will get done within one single  PPA publishing cycle (20 minutes)
[13:04] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: to m-l-b-t?
[13:04] <Hobbsee> cprov: wow!  nice!
[13:04] <Fujitsu> cprov: Very, very nice.
[13:04] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: To their team
[13:04] <Fujitsu> *team's mailing list.
[13:04] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  I get the mails because I'm ubunt-dev which is an indirect member of ubuntu-bug-control
[13:05] <Fujitsu> I think.
[13:05] <Fujitsu> Oh, I guess if a team doesn't have an ML, it will fall through to all members...
[13:05] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: which, in the case of some of the teams, still doesn't exist, so everyone gets an individual mail
[13:05] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Am I to presume that the ubuntu-bugcontrol email was the last you got?
[13:05] <Fujitsu> Once ubuntu-bugcontrol actually got a mailing list, emails to individual members should have stopped.
[13:06] <ScottK> No, I've gotten mails about people being unable to subscribe to the beta team
[13:06]  * ScottK will find and pastebin
[13:06] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: lp should never have been giving teams-added emails to non-admins anyway.
[13:06] <Fujitsu> I didn't think so.
[13:07] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i presume that bug got stomped on and fixed, before mass spam
[13:07] <Hobbsee> as in, only one lot of teams, not all of them
[13:07] <Fujitsu> Maybe it's different because they're teams, not normal people, so it was thought a good idea to mail everyone.
[13:07] <ScottK> Fujitsu: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56837/
[13:07] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: iz bug.  didn't happen normally.
[13:08] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Ah, I didn't notice that one as being personalised, but I guess it must have been.
[13:08] <Fujitsu> Somebody should probably file a bug.
[13:09] <Hobbsee> ScottK: that's not someone being unable to subscribe to the beta team?
[13:09] <ScottK> My spamcop workflow is a lot quicker than my LP bug filing work flow.  I figure eventually either will be effective.
[13:09] <Hobbsee> hah
[13:09] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I got one of those too.
[13:10] <Hobbsee> ScottK: just filter anything from bounces@launchpad.net.  problem solved.
[13:10] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Do you have any other path to m-l-b-t?
[13:10] <Hobbsee> there's no rationale in that mail.  interesting
[13:10] <ScottK> Not that I know of.
[13:10] <ScottK> Let me find another
[13:11] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Well, it's fairly obvious that it is because you're a member of the team, I think.
[13:11] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh, indeed.
[13:12] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: makes it kinad hard to filter though - they should all be having rationales
[13:12] <ScottK> Other and http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56838/ the only other one I've gotten was the one about joining mlbt.
[13:13] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i think that was the one that all people in -bugcontrol got
[13:13] <Hobbsee> as in, those two pastebinned ones
[13:13] <ScottK> Probably.
[13:13] <Fujitsu> Someone didn't set the contact address of -bugcontrol to the mailing list, which is why the world is getting spammed.
[13:14] <ScottK> I'd say as only an indirect member it's doubly wrong.
[13:14] <Hobbsee> oh, bugger.
[13:14] <Fujitsu> I don't see why indirect members should be treated any differently to direct members. But emailing everyone is wrong.
[13:14] <Hobbsee> can't actually *stop* the lp mail at all, without walking away from ubuntu.
[13:15] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: were there plans to allow any team to have their own mailing list?
[13:15] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: That's the point of the mailing list feature, I presume.
[13:15] <Hobbsee> emailing everyone is always wrong - in fact, i wonder if it officially counts as spam
[13:15] <Fujitsu> Any LP dev around here who might know why everyone is getting spammed, rather than just admins?
[13:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yeah, but what status is it?  vaporware, buggy-but-exists, or done-ready-for-production?
[13:16] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Beta testing. Hence the team.
[13:16] <ScottK> or renaming and existing feature and calling it something new.
[13:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: oh.  i've only skimmed that mail so far.  my bad.
[13:17] <ScottK> and/an
[13:17] <Hobbsee> i'ts got something to do with processing 1600+ email in the last 30 hours...
[13:17] <Fujitsu> ScottK: Which existing feature?
[13:18]  * Hobbsee wonders about being able to filter LP bugmail to start with
[13:18] <ScottK> Fujitsu: The ability to sign up as "Bug Contact" for a package is now some other name and a wonderful new feature.
[13:18] <Fujitsu> ScottK: That's actually a useful feature, as you can now subscribe to bugs for a distribution or project.
[13:18] <Fujitsu> Packages just happen to use the same unified mechanism now.
[13:19] <Hobbsee> ack
[13:21] <ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes, but it's not a new feature for packages and it's not correct to describe it as such.
[13:22] <Hobbsee> ScottK: they haven't described it, have they?  there's been no annoucement yet?
[13:22] <ScottK> It's on the LP features page
[13:22]  * Fujitsu hasn't seen one.
[13:22] <Fujitsu> Ah, on /
[13:22] <ScottK> Yes
[13:23] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.  The only notification Ubuntu developers have had about changes in this release is a blog post saying show up and see what's changed
[13:24] <Hobbsee> ScottK: hm, it's not on ubuntu-devel@ yet
[13:24] <ScottK> Hobbsee: No.  It was on planet
[13:24] <ScottK> That's it
[13:25] <Fujitsu> Hm, interesting, subscribing to milestones.
[13:25] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: yummy
[13:25] <ScottK> http://news.launchpad.net/notifications/offline-21-feb-0000-0300-utc
[13:25] <Fujitsu> I don't see it on Planet.
[13:25] <Hobbsee> that'll make release management, etc, easier
[13:25] <ScottK> It was there two days ago
[13:25] <Fujitsu> I see that, but not the usual announcement.
[13:26] <Fujitsu> w/ release notes, etc.
[13:26] <ubotu> New bug: #193983 in malone "Oops deactivating account when the account has a conjoined bugtask assigned to it" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193983
[13:26] <ScottK> Fujitsu: AFAIK there hasn't been one.
[13:29] <Hobbsee> hi statik 
[13:30] <Hobbsee> cprov: what was the rationale for not keeping previous versions of sources and binaries in a ppa?
[13:30] <Hobbsee> as in, on LP at all, not in the ppa archive?
[13:30]  * Fujitsu wonders if they're in librarian.
[13:31] <Hobbsee> likely
[13:31] <cprov> Hobbsee: uhm, they remain in librarian and in the primary archive UI
[13:31] <cprov> Hobbsee: they are only hidden in the PPA UI
[13:31] <Fujitsu> cprov: No files are published for this package.
[13:32] <Fujitsu> s/are //
[13:32] <cprov> Fujitsu: bug me ;)
[13:32]  * Hobbsee smells a gpl violation again.
[13:33]  * Fujitsu files a bug.
[13:33] <Hobbsee> and that's a strange form of delete!
[13:33] <cprov> Hobbsee: NO it isn't a gpl violation, binaries are already gone longer before the sources vanish from the UI.
[13:33] <Fujitsu> cprov: That's irrelevant, I believe.
[13:34] <Fujitsu> Hm, actually, not sure which clause it would be distributed under.
[13:35] <Fujitsu> Not 3a, I don't think it's 3c, so it is probably 3b.
[13:43]  * Hobbsee quietly dies over legalese
[13:47] <Hobbsee> cprov: i hope you're right...
[13:48] <cprov> Hobbsee: okay, it doesn't mean that we don't want to show your package files straight from librarian. Actually it would be nice if you can file a bug about it.
[13:48] <Fujitsu> ubotu is slow.
[13:48] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about is slow. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:49] <barry> hi folks, kiko mentioned that there was a discussion about mailing lists and the mailing-lists-beta-testers spam.  i'm here to answer any questions you might have
[13:49] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: arent you alreayd filing one?
[13:49] <kiko> barry, read backscroll? :)
[13:49] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Did so 9 minutes ago now.
[13:50] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: ah goody.  #?
[13:50]  * kiko lets Fujitsu and Hobbsee and ScottK take it out on barry  :)
[13:50] <Fujitsu> barry: Basically, we're all being emailed about some membership changes in m-l-b-t.
[13:50] <ubotu> New bug: #193996 in soyuz "PPA packages unavailable once deleted" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193996
[13:50] <Hobbsee> there we are
[13:50] <kiko> gpl violation, pffft
[13:50] <kiko> please
[13:50] <ScottK> emailed being the kind word to use for it.
[13:51] <barry> Fujitsu: that should be fixed now.  it wasn't really related to mailing lists, but it was caused by the way membership in mlbt is required, the fact that we didn't have a contact address on ~mlbt, and one of our guys hit the wrong button ;)
[13:51] <barry> Fujitsu: we solved this by adding a contact address to ~mlbt, so that can't happen again
[13:51] <Fujitsu> barry: Shouldn't only admins be emailed on membership changes anyway?
[13:52] <kiko> barry, one question I have is whether team /members/ should be emailed on membership changes.
[13:52] <barry> Fujitsu, Hobbsee and everyone: we're /really/ sorry about that!
[13:52] <Fujitsu> That's what seems to happen with mortal teams.
[13:52] <kiko> right
[13:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i didn't think so?
[13:52] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: I don't get emailed when new MOTU appear.
[13:52] <barry> Fujitsu, kiko that's a great question.  i actually don't think regular members /should/ be emailed on membership changes either
[13:52] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: exactly.  that's hwat i'm saying too.  i thin i'm misreading you then
[13:53] <Fujitsu> I haven't seen regular members be emailed like that before.
[13:53] <Fujitsu> Maybe it's because they're team membership changes.
[13:53] <barry> doesn't the contact address get membership changes?
[13:54] <Fujitsu> No.
[13:54] <Fujitsu> Oh, actually.
[13:54] <Hobbsee> barry: no.
[13:54] <Fujitsu> I forget what's a contact address for what, and what isn't... too many lists.
[13:54] <barry> hmm
[13:54] <Hobbsee> otherwise u-u-s would get them all, and i don't see them dumped in the mod queue, so, no.
[13:54] <kiko> barry, I'd like to understand exactly why the users got mailed, because it sounds really strange to me.
[13:55] <barry> kiko: ok, let's work it backwards, because i'm not sure i understand how they got emailed either
[13:56] <kiko> Hobbsee, can you forward barry a membership-change email with full headers?
[13:56] <barry> the other thing is: are people /still/ getting emailed about membership changes?  i did set up a contact address maybe 18 hours ago i think
[13:56] <Fujitsu> barry: I haven't seen any in a couple of days.
[13:56] <kiko> barry, is the contact email address set up getting membership changes?
[13:56] <Hobbsee> kiko: there were a couple of ones above from ScottK.
[13:56] <barry> kiko: i /think/ so, but i'm not sure
[13:56] <Hobbsee> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56837/ http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56838/
[13:57] <kiko> thanks sarah
[13:57] <Hobbsee> you're welcome.  i'm assuming those are the ones that you want
[13:57] <kiko> barry, ah, that's something else.
[13:57] <kiko> it's interesting.
[13:58] <kiko> are team members emailed when the team is added to another team? should they?
[13:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: when the team taht they're in is added to another?
[13:58] <ScottK> I'd think they shouldn't.  It's an administrative question.
[13:58] <Hobbsee> kiko: i can't see why they should be
[13:58] <barry> kiko: also, there have really been two types of membership changes in mlbt.  i don't think anybody ever got the rejection notices, but they got the erroneous acceptance notice
[13:58] <Fujitsu> barry: I got the acceptance and expiration.
[13:59] <barry> kiko: and remember that was mlbt getting joined to coriander, not the other way around
[13:59] <kiko> yes, yes
[13:59]  * ScottK too.  See the pastes above
[13:59] <barry> Fujitsu: i did too, but i'm not sure what that expiration notice was
[13:59] <kiko> barry, but I think that Hobbsee and ScottK have a point -- members shouldn't be emailed on this sort of change.
[13:59] <kiko> that it's a bug
[13:59] <kiko> only admins should.
[14:00] <barry> kiko: i totally agree
[14:00] <Fujitsu> It's a different sort of change to what I thought it was; I didn't read the entire email properly, so assumed it was the other way around... Oops.
[14:00] <ScottK> Currently the only way for me to avoid these types of emails is to deactivate myself as an ubuntu-dev.  A bit extreme
[14:00] <Hobbsee> ScottK: or blackhole the address in launchpad.
[14:00] <barry> kiko: do we have a bug open for this issue yet?
[14:00] <Hobbsee> ScottK: depends if you carea bout bugmail
[14:00] <kiko> barry, I doubt it.
[14:00] <ScottK> True
[14:01] <kiko> matsubara, salgado: agreed that it's a bug that team members get spammed if their team is added or removed/expired from another team?
[14:01]  * barry runs off to report the bug
[14:01] <Fujitsu> Some people would probably want to know when they implicitly become part of a new team, but probably not on such a large scale as this.. hmm...
[14:01] <ScottK> avoid/avoid it being sent to me.
[14:01] <kiko> matsubara, salgado: if so, does it already exist? help barry out :)
[14:01] <kiko> ScottK, Fujitsu, Hobbsee: just to be 1 million percent clear
[14:01] <kiko> ScottK, Fujitsu, Hobbsee: all the bits of "spam" you received had to do with this "Coriander" team.
[14:01] <kiko> ScottK, Fujitsu, Hobbsee: confirm?
[14:01] <Hobbsee> kiko: i think so, yes.
[14:01] <ScottK> For this issue, yes.  
[14:02] <ScottK> I'm not sure I need mails that a team I'm an indirect member of has been added to a team, but that's much less clear.
[14:02] <kiko> okay, thanks. 
[14:02] <Fujitsu> A lot of people seem to mis-approve things. This is one case, but I've seen other people do it too.
[14:02] <kiko> ScottK, isn't that exactly the bug barry's reporting? that team members (direct or indirect) shouldn't be notified of this sort of change?
[14:03] <barry> related: bug 113705
[14:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 113705 in launchpad "when team membership changes, team members get every other member's email address in To" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/113705 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[14:04] <Hobbsee> wow, launchpad ftw.
[14:04] <kiko> barry, pretty horrible one too
[14:04] <barry> and bug 44795
[14:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 44795 in malone/1.2 "Bug notifications include all subscribers in To: field when notifying a team with no contact email" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44795 - Assigned to Björn Tillenius (bjornt)
[14:04] <salgado> kiko, barry, I'm pretty sure there's no bug reported for this one
[14:04] <kiko> exarkun, are you around already?
[14:05] <barry> salgado: cool.  i will report it
[14:06] <kiko> salgado, do you agree it's a bug?
[14:06] <ScottK> kiko: One is another team being added to a team I'm a member of.  I clearly don't need that.  The other is a team I'm a (indirect) memeber of being added to another.  Less clear.
[14:07] <kiko> ScottK, I think in both cases only direct admins should be notified.
[14:07]  * ScottK agrees
[14:07] <Hobbsee> +1
[14:07] <kiko> they are in the best position to do something about it
[14:08]  * Fujitsu heads to bed.
[14:09] <Hobbsee> thumper: ping, continuing yesterday's discussions.
[14:09] <salgado> kiko, I'm not so sure.  since I'm being added as a member because of that team, I'd like to be notified.  just like I'd be notified if I were added to a team directly
[14:10] <barry> kiko, Hobbsee, ScottK bug 194003
[14:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194003 in launchpad "only team admins should be emailed about team membership changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194003
[14:10] <barry> can you check to make sure i captured the issue accurately?
[14:10] <Hobbsee> barry: those pastes will eventually lapse - you probably want to attach them to the bug, btw
[14:11] <barry> Hobbsee: good point
[14:11] <Hobbsee> barry: looks about right
[14:13] <ScottK> Seems right.
[14:13] <Hobbsee> curses, curses.
[14:13] <barry> attached.  thanks Hobbsee and ScottK 
[14:14] <Hobbsee> people, if you want ubuntu cds for *tuesday*, please don't email me on the previous *friday* asking for htem.
[14:14] <Fujitsu> `You are about to send an annoying approval notice to 754 people. Cancel/Allow'
[14:15] <ScottK> Maybe the solution is to set Mail From to the requestor so they get all the complaints.  
[14:15] <ScottK> Probably won't do it more than once.
[14:15] <barry> ;)
[14:15] <Hobbsee> haha :)
[14:15] <kiko> lol
[14:16] <barry> maybe you want a radio box that says: annoy team admins, annoy all 500 direct members, really piss off all 8 billion indirect members
[14:16] <Hobbsee> barry: with a warning that Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ™ torture may come their way if they do?
[14:16] <Hobbsee> and from others?
[14:17] <kiko> barry, how about "hide the fact that you're doing this change from everybody"?
[14:17] <Fujitsu> For teams that have a dozen subteams that nest 4 levels down, it seems a bit foolish to email everyone... but where to draw the line?
[14:17] <barry> Hobbsee: yes!  and at least 3 or 4 levels of "are you sure"  "are you really sure?" "are you really really sure?" "you know people will hate you right?" confirmation pages
[14:17] <Hobbsee> barry: yeah!
[14:17] <barry> kiko: that's not a bad idea
[14:20] <ubotu> New bug: #194003 in launchpad "only team admins should be emailed about team membership changes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194003
[14:20] <barry> thanks everyone, i've added some comments to the bug with your suggestions (except for Hobbsee's trademarked LPSoD suggestion :)
[14:20] <Hobbsee> hahaha
[14:31] <ubotu> New bug: #194012 in malone "Notify subscribers by a bug's old state" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194012
[14:31] <Hobbsee> kiko: you know, speaking of launchpad spam....is there any reason why i would want to know that another bug has been marked as a duplicate of mine?
[14:32] <kiko> Hobbsee, I'm sure you can contrive some. the question is whether there is reason enough to justify the spam.
[14:32] <kiko> s/any/sufficient maybe
[14:33] <Hobbsee> kiko: the only reason i've managed to contrive so far is so that i can get the address of a core dump, which LP has later gone and removed the links to, after the retrace
[14:33] <Hobbsee> but i'm not sure that $random_user should have access to other people's core dumps anyway, and i'm not sure if they can.
[14:34] <kiko> Hobbsee, well, there are softer but relevant reasons. there may be more information in the other bug. there might be a patch on the other bug. there might be a user with a workaround in the other bug. etc.
[14:34] <Hobbsee> this is true
[14:34] <kiko> so again
[14:34] <kiko> the question is s/any/sufficient
[14:34] <ScottK> OTOH, after about the 12th dupe, the fun factor on the bugmail goes way down.
[14:35] <kiko> ScottK, agreed. but how do we balance those things out without being arbitrary?
[14:35]  * Hobbsee used to filter dupemail, but somehow that died
[14:35] <Hobbsee> looks like my filters for apport have broken too
[14:35] <ScottK> kiko: I do think it would be useful to look at the recent python-central bug and go back and see how duplicate detection could be improved to have avoided people filing so many new bugs.
[14:37] <kiko> ScottK, so you're saying that if we had less dupes the problem would be much less?
[14:37] <Hobbsee> kiko: correct
[14:39]  * Hobbsee --> bed
[14:50] <exarkun> too. cold.
[14:51] <kiko> come on
[14:51] <kiko> there's heating up north
[14:52] <exarkun> problem is, it's never as warm out of bed as it is in bed
[14:53] <exarkun> kiko: so, what's up?
[14:55] <kiko> might be good news, might be bad!
[14:57] <kiko> exarkun, you shy of privmsgs?
[15:56] <ubotu> New bug: #194039 in malone "AttributeError updating mantis bugwatches" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194039
[16:00] <Rinchen> >> meeting time - #launchpad-meeting
[16:00] <kiko> Rinchen?
[16:01] <matsubara> what?
[16:01] <matsubara> topic says 1800 UTC
[16:01] <Rinchen> sure enough.
[16:01] <Rinchen> I'm goofed up again
[16:02] <bigjools> I wish it were 1600, 1800 is about the worst time possible for me
[17:59] <Rinchen> ok, now it's meeting time :-)
[18:05] <ubotu> New bug: #194067 in launchpad "Importd doesn't use RF configs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194067
[18:35] <gryc> So will there be a way to import old mailing list archives into launchpad's new mailinglists?
[18:37] <rzr> gryc: i guess yea
[18:37] <rzr> they say about this on the "tour"
[18:38] <gryc> really? 0.o
[18:38]  * gryc looks again
[18:41] <gryc> hrm, and any idea if there will be mailing lists for projects and not just teams?
[18:41] <kiko> gryc, just for teams -- but you can register a team and associate it to a project, even if it only has one member initially.
[18:42] <gryc> then am I correct in assuming that a user has to join the team to post to the mailing list?
[18:47] <kiko> gryc, well, there is whitelist moderation I believe (barry, help) but mostly yes
[18:48] <barry> gryc: currently, they have to join the team /and/ subscribe to the mailing list to post
[18:48] <barry> gryc: but there's an open bug to relaxing posting restrictions so that any team member can post
[18:49] <gryc> okay
[18:49] <barry> gryc: i'm heading out to lunch, but ping me later if you have more questions
[18:51] <rzr> i am planning to move a yahoogroup to LP , any suggestions ?
[18:56] <ScottK> kiko: Apparently I'm not alone thinking the fix for Bug #137448 didn't fully address the issue.  Would you prefer a new bug or I reopen this one?
[18:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137448 in malone "New UI is confusing and counter inuitive for changing affected package" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137448 - Assigned to Björn Tillenius (bjornt)
[18:57] <kiko> ScottK, I don't have time to invest in that discussion right now, as I find the issue completely unimportant :-(
[18:58] <ScottK> kiko: Glad to understand that.  Thanks.
[19:01]  * ScottK decides to give up on this.
[19:05] <Rinchen> date change on next mtg
[20:26] <ubotu> New bug: #194114 in soyuz "Only Virtual machines can be used" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194114
[20:50] <ubotu> New bug: #194120 in launchpad "Discarded posts should provide some feedback to sender" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194120
[20:55] <ubotu> New bug: #194126 in launchpad "Let people lurk on mailing lists" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194126
[22:06] <ubotu> New bug: #194143 in launchpad "Both "Swedish" and "Swedish (Finland)" listed as languages of Finland" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194143
[22:10] <jetsaredim>  if I have a code branch in my bzr area on launchpad - how can I get the thing built and into my ppa?
[22:19] <Ubulette> jetsaredim, you'd better "branch your branch", then in the new branch, append ~ppa1 to the version in debian/changelog and target hardy as the distribution, then build a source package (debuild -S), then dput the .changes file (but you need to 1st configure the dput target for ppa)
[22:22] <jetsaredim> i guess i was more looking for a pointer to a wiki doc or some thing :)
[22:23] <Ubulette> oh
[22:24] <Ubulette> there's one somewhere.. hmm, looking
[22:24] <Ubulette> https://help.launchpad.net/PPAQuickStart
[22:32] <Assid> heya
[22:32] <Assid> is the site having issues
[22:33] <Assid> ?
[22:38] <Assid> wonder if its cause of the database or http server is gone outta whack
[22:40] <exarkun> launchpad.net is responding quite well to my browser's requests
[22:40] <exarkun> that doesn't mean the site isn't having issues, of course, but it's a data point. :)
[22:42] <Assid> hrmm
[22:43] <kiko-afk> it's damned fast if you ask me
[22:43] <kiko-afk> wow
[22:46] <jsauer> Hey there! QUESTION: Can I branch a vcs-imports branch (eg. ~vcs-imports/evolution/head) fix a bug and then make a merge propose to commit this fix upstream?
[22:46] <Assid> weird
[22:48]  * Assid thinks the webserver is a bit outta whack?
[22:50] <exarkun> Assid: Sorry if this is obvious, but don't you think you should provide some details if you're trying to report a bug?
[22:51] <Assid> well it just sits there trying to connect oto the site. but doesnt do anything.. firefox says connecting to... but thats it
[22:52] <exarkun> Are you sure it's not a DNS problem?  (Can you resolve the hostname using another tool?)  Or maybe a Firefox memory corruption issue?  (Does it work if you restart Firefox?)
[22:53] <Assid> c
[22:54] <Assid> SSL error:no issuer was found-Continue? 
[22:54] <Assid> as per lynx
[22:54] <Assid> firefox still doesnt work tho
[22:55] <Assid> dont know what to say
[22:56] <Assid> okay started working on its own now
[22:56] <poolie> hello
[22:57] <Assid> slow.. but atleast the title to the page has loaded
[22:58] <Assid> okay started working.
[23:00] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[23:23] <steveire> Hi. Before it got backported I put libxine in my ppa. I'd intended that the ppa version would be overriden when the official version was backported. I named it 1.1.10-1ubuntu1~ppa1. However, that version name does not get overriden by the backported version. http://rafb.net/p/bN6WYA12.html. What should I have named it in this case and how can I anticipate the version of the backported package in the future?
[23:31] <stdin> steveire: ~ppa1 is higher than ~gutsy1 because 'p' is higher than 'g'
[23:31] <stdin> ~gutsy1~ppa1 is what I tend to use when building on non-development releases
[23:31] <steveire> stdin: You mean u is higer than g? How should I name things then?
[23:33] <stdin> ah, with libxine there is no ubuntu revision
[23:33] <steveire> The previous version in backports was 1.1.8-2ubuntu2~gutsy1. I'd assumed it would follow the same scheme.
[23:34] <steveire> Is there a way to build non-dev releases without second guessing what the backporter will name the package?
[23:35] <stdin> use <version>-0~gutsy1~ppa1 if there is no debian package (1.1.8-0~gutsy1~ppa1) or us the version from debian and add ~gutsy1~ppa1
[23:56] <ubotu> New bug: #194176 in blueprint "Superseded status is redundant with superseded link" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194176