Hobbseeintrepid ibex, hey?00:16
infinityYeah, my suggestion of Incontinent Imbecile was rejected.00:17
Hobbseeoops, caps00:18
* lamont kicks /etc/event.d.00:41
lamonthow do I get the system to reconize changes there?00:41
lamontshort of reboot, that is00:41
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ChipzzScottK: errr, yes it (maintaining a mixed system) IS documented; it's called pinning and is documented in man apt_preferences02:58
ion_FSVO documented02:59
Chipzzalthough I should poorly documented :P02:59
Chipzzion_: ;)02:59
ScottKNot supported though02:59
Chipzzion_: I found that manpage to be really confusing ;)02:59
ChipzzScottK: yeah but the guy was asking about documentation ;)02:59
Chipzzs/confusing/complex and lacking examples/03:00
ScottKK.  I took it more as I did this really odd thing to my system, I want to do something odder, and want it to work.  Please help.03:01
Chipzzquestion of interpretation I guess ;)03:01
=== herb changed the topic of #ubuntu-devel to: Archive: Feature freeze, Alpha 5 freeze | Development of Ubuntu (not support, not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty/gutsy, #ubuntu+1 for hardy | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs
Chipzzthe one thing I did try to achieve with apt/preferences, I failed at :P03:08
Chipzzwhich was trying to convince apt that packages recompiled locally and installed with dpkg -i should take precedence03:08
Chipzzbut then, I don't even know if that's possible (or if apt/preferences is the right way to do that)03:11
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superm1slangasek, still going to have time to look over the changes to cdimage with me?04:31
choudesh_Anyone around?04:55
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choudeshheh. ;-)04:55
choudeshIs the 8.04 kernel compiled with the HIGHMEM flag?04:55
emgentheya Hobbsee :)05:03
Hobbseehey emgent!05:03
_MMA_choudesh: I believe it is for 32-bit.05:15
slangaseksuperm1: is there a branch I can look at?  I think I can squeeze in looking at the changes, but only asynchronously05:58
superm1slangasek, yeah there is.05:58
superm1slangasek, let me get you a url05:58
slangaseksuperm1: thanks, pulling for later05:59
superm1slangasek, thanks.  let me know if you have any questions or concerns.  i'll be up for 1-2 more hours, otherwise i'll answer in the morning06:00
slangasekyah, I don't think I'll get to it until tomorrow anyway, I'm a bit sleep-deprived ATM06:01
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pittiGood morning07:08
warp10Hi all!07:11
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tjaaltonpitti, slangasek: the latest xorg-server upload is not built yet?07:25
tjaalton-intel needs that07:25
pittitjaalton: built everywhere07:26
dholbachgood morning07:26
pittihey dholbach07:26
dholbachhey pitti07:27
tjaaltonpitti: but not published? -1ubuntu4 is the one07:27
slangasektjaalton: published too.  there've been some mirror pulse issues, I know; perhaps your local mirror is lagged as a result of that07:30
tjaaltonslangasek: ah ok, I'm using archive.u.c ;)07:31
pittitjaalton: ah, just wanted to say the same07:31
tjaaltonslangasek: I uploaded a new -intel which build-deps on the latest xserver-xorg-dev, and drops the patch which forces XAA on !96507:32
slangasektjaalton: perhaps archive.u.c is lagged as a result of that ;-P07:32
tjaaltonhope it's ok..07:32
tjaaltonwe discussed these with bryce07:32
slangasektjaalton: is that a new new -intel, or the new -intel that I know about already from talking to bryce ~24h ago?07:33
brycesame -intel07:33
slangasekthat one's built & published, but perhaps not published as far as we'd like07:33
tjaaltonslangasek: it's the same, but with the latest patch disabled since it turns out that compiz has issues with XAA&Xv at least on some i9xx in addition to 96507:34
tjaaltonit's published, but doesn't do what we'd like it to do :)07:35
tjaaltonie. force greedy EXA07:35
bryceyeah users are reporting that our fix for 965 also works great on other intel chips07:35
slangasekso what you're saying is that you want a -2ubuntu7?07:36
slangasekthe current behavior isn't a regression, right?07:37
bryceit's not a regression from gutsy (we had been running XAA there)07:38
slangasekso no urgent reason to try to squeeze it into alpha5..?07:39
brycebut for alpha3 and 4 we'd turned EXA on for everyone, which we assumed worked no differently than XAA07:39
tjaaltonexa has been there since 2.2.0 was uploaded..07:40
brycehowever users are saying they had been finding EXA fixed things for them, they just hadn't really told us until this patch to put them back to XAA went in07:40
slangasekheh. :)  ok, go ahead and upload 7 and I'll try to see that it gets squeezed onto the ISOs07:40
FujitsuIs XAA actually meant to work with Xv? It never has for me.07:40
bryceok cool07:41
bryceFujitsu: I only knew that it didn't work with 965.07:41
bryce(but then, on my 945 where I play video regularly, compiz had been crashing left and right anyway)07:42
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tjaaltonslangasek: already did, I assumed that you'd put it on hold if not acceptable for a5 :)07:45
Pete_Bcan anyone please tell me the dependencies of the lamp-server virtual package? (I'm not running Ubuntu so can't check myself)07:58
sladenpeter_b:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/lamp-server  except that doesn't return any results, did it get renamed?08:10
sladenpete_b: grep -A8 lamp-server /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc08:19
pittiinfinity: gcc-3.3 upload> ... but it already was in universe before?08:22
\shasac: ff3 + flash + usb headset (in this case a sennheiser) doesn't work...I wonder if it's a regression of gnome/ff3+flash or something else08:28
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sorenpitti: Now that the gcc issue is taken care of in kvm, everything is fine, right?08:45
pittisoren: yes, it is; I'll get to review/promoting it soon08:46
sorenpitti: Cool. Thanks.08:46
sorenJust wanted to make sure it wasn't blocking on me somehow.08:47
davmor2Do we have stable images across the board now, for testing purposes?08:52
mvohey sladen! will you be at fosdem?08:52
sladenmvo: a bit late if I do turn up.  Ferry to Rostock left 22:00 last night and I was too busy watching the fresh snow to watch it08:53
sladens/watch/catch the ferry/08:54
mvosladen: heh :) ok08:54
slytherinDoes a MIR bug need to be marked confirmed?08:54
sladensilly Deutsch Bahn site is suggesting I go via St. Petersburg.  meh germany technology.08:57
seb128do we have anybody looking to fuse in ubuntu?08:58
davmor2sladen: it's a long bike ride any way you look at it ;)08:58
seb128looks like the rmdir behaviour on ntfs fuse mounts is not correct08:58
seb128I would like to know if that's a known issue08:58
pittiseb128: you mean ntfs-3g or fuse proper?08:59
seb128pitti: no idea, whatever we use to mount ntfs partitions08:59
seb128ntfs-3g likely08:59
seb128rmdir gives a  = -1 EEXIST (File exists)08:59
seb128instead of a = -1 ENOTEMPTY (Directory not empty)08:59
seb128when used on a non empty directory09:00
seb128that breaks gvfs09:00
slytherinAnd I thought only I was having this problem09:00
seb128slytherin: ?09:00
slytherinntfs-3g here (default install)09:01
slytherinseb128: I get error when trying to delete folders with files inside09:01
seb128slytherin: you are the one who opened the bug?09:01
slytherinseb128: No. I didn't09:02
pittiseb128: yep, ntfs-3g likely09:04
pittiseb128: there is a new upstream version allegedly, which we should update anyway09:04
pitti(not for alpha5, though)09:04
pittiseb128: aside from that it seems easy enough to fix; can you subscribe me to the bug #?09:05
pittiI'm happy to take a look09:05
carlospitti: hi, should I accept translations for x264 package? it's in multiverse09:06
pitticarlos: good question; why not?09:06
carlospitti: it's not a package in main, so I just wanted to check it ;-)09:07
seb128pitti: bug #186569, I've subscribed you09:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186569 in ntfs-3g "cannot delete files off of an Fuse mounted NTFS partition in nautilus" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18656909:07
pitticarlos: you are afraid of violating LP's usage policy or so?09:07
carlospitti: no, there is no problem in Launchpad side09:07
pittiseb128: taking09:07
carlospitti: I was more worried in the fact that the translations will be installed in language packs09:07
carloswhich are in main09:08
pitticarlos: no, that shouldn't happen09:08
pittiI thought LP would import universe translations, but not export them to langpacks?09:08
carloswe ignore those imports to prevent translation effort lose09:08
carlosuntil we implement a way to deploy it09:08
asac\sh: hard to tell.09:12
\shasac: i test it a bit later with loudspeakers attached to the default soundcard, so i can trace this problem09:16
pitticarlos: ok, then we better ignore it09:27
gesergood morning09:30
pittihi geser09:38
geserHi pitti09:53
Hobbseeguten tag pitti09:54
* pitti hugs Hobbsee09:55
* Hobbsee hugs pitti back!09:56
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loolpitti: elisa dep changes applied with | python >= 2.5 (as also mentionned by pochu); thanks10:55
pittilool: great, thanks; I'm not fussed about python2.5 or python (>= 2.5)10:55
pittithe latter is better for forwards compatibility, right10:56
loolWell elisa runs with the default python ATM, so these are only optional if it's >= 2.510:56
pittiStevenK: oh, the joys of de-yada-ifying (just did it for ossp-uuid)10:57
pittisoren: I wonder whether kvm-source should better stay in universe? I take it on hardy release kvm-source and l-u-m should ideally be synchronized?11:11
sorenpitti: Well, not l-u-m, but yes.11:12
sorenAnd that is currently the case.11:12
pittiright, it's in linux proper11:12
pittiok, done11:12
sorenFeel free to leave kvm-source in universe.11:12
* soren hugs pitti11:12
pittisoren: can you please get it seeded?11:12
davmor2Can anyone tell me please if the Ubuntu cd's are safe for testing?11:30
dredgdepends what you mean by safe. there's always the chance a cd could shatter and cut you11:32
Hobbseedavmor2: slangasek should be able to answer you11:32
sorendredg: I hate that :(11:34
cjwatsonmvo: 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop' installs recommends from the metapackage. 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^' does not.11:56
cjwatsonmvo: this feels like an apt bug to me?11:56
cjwatsonmvo: this happens even if I set APT::Install-Recommends=true. I think perhaps MarkInstall never gets called with AutoInst==true?12:07
cjwatsonmvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4824/ seems to fix it, but I'm not entirely certain what other effects it would have?12:15
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cjwatsonmvo: (this is alpha-5-critical, by the way; we're only running into it as a consequence of other problems, but those seem a lot harder to address)12:17
ogra_cmpccjwatson, oh, you pushed kdeedu completely into desktop-kde ... if i add it to desktop-addon now that will pull in the deps i guess ?12:31
sabdflRiddell: help re displayconfig12:32
sabdflRiddell: is there a known issue with the display configuration in Hardy?12:33
sabdflcomplaining about being unable to find libpython2.5.so, iirc12:33
cjwatsonogra_cmpc: I don't think I made any changes as far as the position of kdeedu is concerned12:33
cjwatsonogra_cmpc: yes, seed dependency resolution works as normal12:34
ogra_cmpccjwatson, no, that change was made before aolready (it was in live and the old addon seed)12:34
ogra_cmpcwe did that for gutsy12:34
ogra_cmpchmm, unpredictable growth then, i'll keep it for after alpha then12:35
ogra_cmpcthe desktop install works fine from g-a-i now :)12:35
davmor2The new ubiquity doesn't set the country and keyboard defaults after the world map anymore.  Is this known?12:36
ogra_cmpchaving .desktop files for -desktop metapackages seems worth to have for all of them imho12:37
ogra_cmpcwe should discuss that at UDS12:37
cjwatsondavmor2: #ubuntu-installer12:37
davmor2cjwatson: ta12:37
Riddellsabdfl: yes, that's a known issue, it's on my todo for fixing12:39
Riddellsabdfl: but it has larger problems too due to changes in xorg.conf files so it may disappear altogether12:39
Riddellsabdfl: you can install python2.5-dev to work around that issue12:40
__keybukasac: default firefox launcher is broken, known?12:41
mvocjwatson: thanks, sorry I was at lunch, checking it now12:42
asac__keybuk: yes we will go back to firefox.desktop in next upload12:43
asac(if that is what you mean)12:43
mvoRiddell: what are your plans re> displayconfig? is there someone working on fixing it?12:43
DktrKranzpitti, it seems SRU candidate in bug 41491 is not sufficient, what's the procedure in these cases?12:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 41491 in wzdftpd "Dapper: Broken dependencies for some wzdftpd modules" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/4149112:45
Riddellmvo: there is not12:45
Riddellmvo: bryce wants to replace it with improved xrandr tools12:45
pittiDktrKranz: upload a fixed one12:46
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mvoRiddell: yes, I have seen that (and think that its the right way) - is there a kde version for this in the works too?12:46
pittiDktrKranz: we can kill the version in -proposed if it is worse than the one in -release12:47
Riddellmvo: not that I know of12:47
pitticjwatson: yay, I just wrote "msgequal" to weed out msgid == msgstr12:47
cjwatsonmvo: the two commands I gave are enough to reproduce in a clean debootstrap12:47
DktrKranzpitti, it's not worse, because now there's only one packae which has unmetdeps (against three than -release)12:47
cjwatsonpitti: ooh, neat12:47
pitticjwatson: /usr/include/gettext-po.h FTW :)12:48
mvocjwatson: thanks, doing that now12:48
pochudoko: are you aware of bzrtools 1.2.0-1ubuntu1 failing to upgrade with latest pycentral? I get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4826/plain/12:53
ogra_cmpcwow, virtualbox through ssh -X works really well :)12:55
dokopochu: yes, we (mvo and me) don't yet understand why the preinst is not run. this only happens for upgrades from 1.2.0-1build1. you can work around by using apt-get --reinstall install bzrtools12:59
edsiperis *jemalloc* going to be integrated in ubuntu 8.04 ?13:00
pochudoko: ok, nice that you are aware of it. do you want me to submit it to lp (via apport) ?13:02
mvocjwatson: I can reproduce the different behavior here, I looked closer and it seems that the Task: in the Packages file is incorrect (or not in sync with the metapackages). if you look at e.g. landscape-client, that one is part of ubuntu-desktop as a recommends but in my chroot apt-cache show landscape-client does not list ubuntu-desktop as a task13:07
mvocjwatson: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ is really just using the task information from the packages file13:07
cjwatsonmvo: yes, that is a bug (harder to fix), and is triggering the bug in apt; but I think it is nevertheless a bug in apt13:07
cjwatsonmvo: the ubuntu-desktop metapackage is part of the ubuntu-desktop task, and as such apt should honour Install-Recommends-Sections and install Recommends from the ubuntu-desktop metapackage13:08
cjwatsoneven if they aren't in the task13:08
davmor2Ubiquity is frozen at 94% on ubuntu 32 bit and 64 bit13:08
cjwatsonmvo: I wrote an analysis of the bug you describe to #ubuntu-release; it's going to take some seed changes and a Launchpad change to fix13:08
mvocjwatson: thanks, I see. let me look a bit closer at the code so that I can get a better idea why it is run this way13:09
cjwatson12:28 <cjwatson> the underlying problem here is that the seed_map stuff in *-meta/update.cfg is only there, and not in the seeds, so Launchpad is unable to make use of it for generating Task fields13:10
cjwatson12:29 <cjwatson> it's actually not a new problem - note the lack of Task field in base-files which strictly speaking should have Task: ubuntu-minimal13:10
cjwatson12:29 <cjwatson> err, Task: minimal I mean13:10
cjwatson12:30 <cjwatson> but in order to fix it we'll need a Launchpad change, and if we can work around it by fixing the apt bug it appears to be triggering, I'd prefer that to having to ask for a cherry-pick13:10
cjwatsonthis is in turn triggered by the seed reorganisation which split part of the desktop seed out into desktop-common (and desktop-kubuntu-common for kubuntu/kubuntu-kde4)13:10
mvocjwatson: thanks for the background. I think I wrote the code under the assumption that the task header would be present on the packages, your change is fine if that assumption is incorrect. I can do a upload with that fix13:18
cjwatsonmvo: I think the best way to describe it is "incorrect for the time being" :-)13:22
cjwatsonmvo: I'll definitely try to get the systemic and Launchpad bugs fixed. Thanks!13:22
mvocjwatson: ok .) let me do a final test and then I do the upload13:24
mvocjwatson: hrm, your fix helps, but its not perfect, there is still a delta between the task install and the meta-package (also smaller) - I look a bit deeper13:41
cjwatsonmvo: hmm, ok13:42
cjwatsonI admit I didn't do a proper comparison, I was just looking for ones I knew were left out by mistake13:42
ogra_cmpcmvo, do we have *any* GL checks left in compiz (read: is there still a blacklist where we could add xephyr) ?13:43
ogra_cmpcseems the desktop crashes in xephyr sessions with a message about texture_from_pixmap (which i belive comes from compiz)13:44
mvocjwatson: wdiff with fix compared to metapkg http://paste.ubuntu.com/4827/13:45
mvoogra_cmpc: yes and yes13:46
mvoogra_cmpc: it crashes?13:46
ogra_cmpcwait a sec13:46
mvoogra_cmpc: no fallback to metacity?13:46
ogra_cmpcapparently no fallback13:46
ogra_cmpcjohnny is the guy who works on sabayon atm13:46
johnnyone of the guys..13:47
ogra_cmpcwhich is supposed to switch to xephyr at some point13:47
mvoogra_cmpc: strange, it should fall back13:47
johnnywe hope..13:47
ogra_cmpcjohnny, *the* guy in ubuntu :)13:47
johnnyim a guy in ubuntu?13:47
johnnynot officially at least13:48
johnnymy main OS is gentoo, i just happen to use ubuntu all over the place elsewhere :)13:48
ogra_cmpcmvo, can we blacklist it (likely post alpja stuff though)13:48
johnnyis this a place where you guys talking about issues you have with specific apps in hardy?13:49
johnnyi'm still having troubles with 2.22 and sabayon that i have replicated with hardy13:49
cjwatsonjohnny: no, this is the Ubuntu developer coordination channel13:49
johnnybut i don't know anybody familiar with gvfs to know what should happen13:49
ogra_cmpccjwatson, he cares for our sabayon package a lot13:50
johnnygot some patches merged in13:50
johnnyhmm.. need to find the guy who maintains the current sabayon dev, gotta tell him that i removed gnomesu from the desktop file13:51
cjwatsonmvo: odd, fontconfig depends on fontconfig-config; why would the latter ever not be installed?13:51
johnnynow you can add gksu or not.. depending on the setup13:51
mvoogra_cmpc: sure13:51
mvocjwatson: I have no idea at the moment, I'm looking at it, sorry13:52
cjwatsonmvo: fontconfig-config is installed in both cases for me13:52
mvocjwatson: with -o APT::Install-Recommends=true or without?13:53
cjwatsonmvo: without13:54
cjwatsonjust with the default install-recommends-sections stuff13:54
cjwatsonmvo: the only difference for me with my patch is mousetweaks, which was a recent addition and I think the metapackage just hasn't been updated yet13:55
cjwatsonmvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4829/13:55
mvocjwatson: thanks, maybe something odd in my chroot13:56
* mvo investigates13:56
mvocjwatson: right, my bad. the fix is fine13:58
ogra_cmpcjohnny, btw, could you try setting /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current and /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default to metacity and see if it doesnt crash with that ?13:59
ogra_cmpc(in gconf-editor)13:59
johnnyit crashes before i get a chance14:00
johnnyi'm just going to put at-properties in /etc/xdg/autostart14:00
ogra_cmpcit uses your default desktiop14:00
johnnywith autostart disabled14:00
johnnyoh.. that's a seperate thing14:02
johnnyi was thinking of something else14:02
johnnywhat uses my default desktop?14:02
cjwatsonmvo: ok, cool14:02
ogra_cmpcjohnny, sabayon should use your default desktop14:03
ogra_cmpcas starting point14:03
mvocjwatson: preparing the upload now14:03
johnnyit says that key has been deprecated?14:03
ogra_cmpcif you switch the default to metacity it shouldnt choke on compiz14:03
ogra_cmpcjohnny, thats an upstream comment ... its still used regardless14:04
pittiArneGoetje, cjwatson: I rolled out the langpack-o-matic fix to eliminate msgid==msgstr translations, FYI14:04
ogra_cmpc(we should probably fix teh text for final release)14:04
johnnysame diff14:06
johnnyit says it aborts and uses metacity, but that is too late14:07
cjwatsonpitti: nice14:08
pitticjwatson: ah, thanks for devscripts14:10
mvoogra_cmpc: just tested it with Xepyhr and compiz, the fallback works ok for me14:26
ograhmm, then it must be the way sabayon calls it i guess14:27
mvoogra: if you can give me instructions how to reproduce I'm happy to have a look14:28
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emgent`workpackages.ubuntu.com is down ?16:30
cjwatsonnot run by us, the same guy who runs packages.debian.org runs it16:30
dholbachUbuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom16:30
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selckinreally sucks ubuntu.org isn't what i think it is every time i type it in16:33
infinitypitti: gcc-3.3 was moved to universe without anyone realising that libgcc1 builds from gcc-3.3 on hppa.  We ended up with override mismatches, DAK exploded, I cried.16:36
pittiinfinity: oh, erk; thanks16:36
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slangasektjaalton: eh... soft freeze, so I wouldn't have had any way to put it on hold if we needed to roll new CDs17:06
mario_limonciellslangasek, is there currently any intention of DVDs with this release?17:06
mario_limonciell<this alpha>17:06
slangasekmario_limonciell: no, that would get me yelled at about disk space17:07
Chipzz(sorry for the off-topic question; but does anyone know if there's a channel where the opers hang out?)17:10
Chipzz(#opers appears to be a no-go)17:11
PiciChipzz: If you need to speak to freenode staff, #freenode is the place, for Ubuntu operators, you can try #ubuntu-irc or #ubuntu-ops. (depending on the type of issue, see the channel topics)17:18
ChipzzPici: thx!17:23
Chipzz(I needed #freenode ;))17:23
pranithhello, which channel do i join for the developer week irc's?17:42
praniththe bughelper session in particular?17:42
Mithrandir17:30 < dholbach> Ubuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom17:42
praniththank you17:43
Mithrandirdo we yet have any way to modify pam configs when packages get installed?18:21
MithrandirI'd like libpam-ck-connector.so to be added, either programatically or to the default config18:21
slangasekthere's auth-client-config18:24
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slangasekfor intrepid I'm hoping for a reworked pam config framework18:25
slangasekbut that didn't come along quickly enough for hardy18:25
Mithrandirthis is for mobile, so I'd rather not install too much stuff like auth-client-config18:27
Mithrandir(and is that supposed to be driven from maintainer scripts?)18:27
slangasekdunno.  that's all that exists today, though; the proper in-pam solution is still a cycle away18:29
Riddellevand, cjwatson: I've got a patch to add proxy support to ubiquity's qt side, is now a suitable time to commit it?18:33
evandRiddell: should be.  I've already uploaded the fixed ubiquity for bug 19398618:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193986 in ubiquity "Ubiquity is locking up at 94% Configuring Hardware" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19398618:34
Riddellevand: committed, hugs to nixternal18:35
davmor2evand does that mean we'll have a new cd in a bit :)18:36
evandthanks Riddell and nixternal18:37
evanddavmor2: eventually.  ubiquity needs to build and the cd build system needs time to get the update and then make new images.18:37
davmor2cool :)18:37
brycecjwatson: you about?  perhaps this would be a good time to talk with tjaalton about input-hotplug?18:40
evandbryce: I believe he left around :1518:40
tjaaltonslangasek: uh ok, will remember it the next time ((=won't happen again)18:41
evandnot sure when he'll be back though18:41
bryceoh, ok, too bad18:41
tjaaltonbryce: my gprs-connection is busy downloading a java-plugin for FF, so it's quite laggy atm :)18:41
bryceboo java ;-)18:42
brycetjaalton: anyway, with input-hotplug the question is how to get to a stable point - would it be easier to revert back to having input stuff specified in xorg.conf, or to complete the work for making input-hotplug function properly?18:43
tjaaltonbryce: it would be easier to revert back18:44
brycetjaalton: given that we may not know what bugs may appear even after turning input-hotplug on, maybe that would be the safest thing to do?18:45
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tjaaltonbryce: indeed18:48
brycetjaalton: what is your opinion?18:48
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tjaaltonbryce: I'm leaning towards status quo, and bringing back the synaptics entries to dexconf18:51
tjaaltonsince hal upstream is not helping18:51
* bryce nods18:52
brycetjaalton: I think I agree; last I talked with cjwatson he was of similar mind18:52
tjaaltonmaybe we could ship a script which generates an fdi-file from xkb configuration so people can start using it if they like18:54
brycethat's a good idea18:55
brycetjaalton: also expectations are going to be that with input-hotplug that things work at least as well as in gutsy, but since things are still not fully matured upstream with this, it's hard to guarantee18:58
brycealso, I'm a bit worried about that we don't have config utilities yet, so even with input-hotplug working, people will find it difficult to customize beyond the defaults18:59
tjaaltonyeah, and because upstream input maintainers hate every single component that is related... even the evdev driver deserves a rewrite :P18:59
bryceok sounds like a decent plan - do you want to do the dexconf reverts, or would you like my help with that?19:00
tjaaltoneither works, although I'm away most of this week so it would have to wait until Monday19:01
bryceI think Monday would be soon enough19:02
bryceI'll go ahead and outline this plan to cjwatson and on the bug report19:02
tjaaltonok cool19:03
jdonghey while I have you two here.... I'm having an intriguing xorg-video-intel bug19:04
jdongseems like if I use xvideo,  suspend and resume then use xvideo again, X hangs and only lets me move the mouse19:04
jdongI can't click anything, keyboard totally locked, power button doesn't respond either19:04
jdong(Compiz, EXA, greedy migration). Any clues?19:05
tjaaltonjdong: doesn't sound familiar.. filed a bug yet?19:09
jdongtjaalton: not yet, I'll reconfirm a few times and then file a bug if it's reproducible19:10
jdongtjaalton: actually, the problem is more trivial than that to reproduce19:18
jdongtjaalton: xv+compiz seems to randomly19:18
jdongdestroy the display19:18
brycejdong, check through the bugs against -input; xvideo issues after suspend/resume sounds vaguely familiar19:22
brycejdong: I've not looked into that issue myself yet, but it is likely an acpi and/or kernel issue (and so probably highly chipset-specific)19:24
jdongbryce / tjaalton after today's updates it seems like compiz+xvideo = hardlock on my macbook19:24
jdongit wasn't like this a few days ago19:24
brycejdong: well the only change we've put in recently is the greedy patch stuff19:24
brycewhich only affects 96519:24
jdongbryce: hmm just rolled back to -video-intel 2ubuntu6 and that worked fine19:28
jdonglemme apply the upgrade again and see what happens19:28
brycejdong, hmm also try out 2ubuntu5.  iirc 2ubuntu7 merely reverted the patch in 2ubuntu619:30
jdongnope 6 and 7 both happen19:36
jdongbut it's all pretty random19:36
bryceok, so it still happens with both 2ubuntu6 and 2ubuntu7?19:42
bryce2ubuntu2 would probably be the next to try - 3 and 4 were mainly quirk releases iirc19:43
brycejdong, ok anyway, please file a bug with as much info as you can gather (I'll probably forget our discussion here, so please summarize), and I'll take a look into it when I get a chance19:44
jdongbryce: indeed, I'll have to find some time to look into this more thoroughly19:49
jdongbryce: the combination core 1ubuntu3 and intel ubuntu6 seems to work20:02
jdongbut core 1ubuntu4 with all intel versions seems to fail20:02
jdongI'll test this for the rest of the afternoon and let you know if this is wrong20:03
brycecool thanks20:03
bryceso it is starting to sound like the issue may be that greedy fails on your hardware..... something I worried about20:04
bryceyou might also try setting your migration heuristic to "always" (see man exa)20:05
brycejdong: what does your `lspci | grep VGA` say?20:06
=== ember_ is now known as ember
alex-weejdebugging network-manager via my mum on the phone is not even funny20:34
mrsnoalex-weej :) i was doing tech support via sms the other day, /sys/bus/pci/drivers/ipw3945/0000:02:01.0 is not easy to type :<20:36
Ellywhich package do the man pages for the pthreads functions (e.g.: pthread_create) live in?20:37
ChipzzElly: off-hand, without checking, I would say manpages-dev20:41
ChipzzElly: but this is not the right channel blablabla :), use http://packages.ubuntu.com/ ;)20:42
EllyChipzz: I have manpages-dev installed already :P I just noticed there are no man pages for pthreads only - I have manpages for all the system calls and stuff, just pthreads docs appear to be missing20:53
ChipzzI betcha I can find it with one google search and one lookup on p.u.c :P20:54
Chipzzso, so should you :P20:54
Ellythanks :)20:55
davmor2slangasek: You'll be glad to hear that Ubuntu Alt's aren't too bad.  Firefox applet is missing and bluetooth applet has vanished.20:56
TheMusoDo we have CDs tat need testing?21:01
slangasekTheMuso: more testing wouldn't hurt; I'm about to reroll all the images and the liveCDs are currently uninstallable, but more feedback on the current alternates could still be useful21:03
slangasekotherwise, give it a couple of hours and we'll have a whole new set21:03
TheMusoslangasek: I can wait, thanks for the heads up.21:03
NthDegreeGot a technical question:  Is there any plans to add more proactive security to future compiles of Ubuntu? (Sorry if this is OT, but neither the wiki or the support channels really seem to know)21:03
slangasekdavmor2: hopefully the changes that cjwatson_ made fix that problem for Ubuntu as well as Kubuntu21:03
NthDegreeby proactive security I mean fortify_source and other such compiler features21:04
davmor2slangasek: we shall see in a bit I'm sure :)21:04
ScottK2NthDegree: Try in #ubuntu-hardened21:05
dokoMithrandir: thanks for the brightness fix!21:10
Mithrandirdoko: it helps you too?21:10
dokoMithrandir: package is not yet available, but currently the screen is dimmed after about 5sec of inactivity and doesn't come back to full brightness after pressing a key21:11
Mithrandirugh, ok.  I'm not sure it'll fix that.21:12
slangaseknew kubuntu alternate CDs are up for testing, now with a properly-sized amd64 ISO21:18
slangasekdavmor2: ^^ if you're keen to test whether the task issue is resolved for kubuntu alternate21:19
* Treenaks pokes >5 of his own bugs (does that count? :))21:19
RussellGeeHi huys21:19
slangasekTheMuso: for 5-a-day? yes... :)21:19
Treenaksslangasek: whoo :)21:19
Treenaksslangasek: the other t<tab> :)21:19
slangasekTheMuso: sorry, that was for Treenaks21:19
davmor2cool I'll check it out in a second21:19
GeeHi guys21:21
GeeWhen will alpha 5 be released now ?21:21
GeeAnyone ?21:23
TreenaksGee: well.. I guess when people get around to it21:23
NthDegreeScottK2: what's the development status of hardy like for a user interested in KDE 3.5.x?21:23
ScottK2NthDegree: --> #kubuntu-devel21:24
ScottK2NthDegree: If you join in #kubuntu-devel we can discuss there.21:25
slangasekGee: tomorrow, as noted at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-February/000381.html21:25
persiaslangasek: It's already "tomorrow" for some of us :p21:26
* persia isn't advocating early release, just global timezones21:26
Treenakspersia: those people just need some adjustment to proper time zones ;)21:26
slangasekpersia: yes, but not in Ubuntu Temps Coordonné21:27
GeeWeird, Im on the mailing list but i never got the announcement21:27
GeeOk, thanks21:27
Treenaksthe mailinglist is slow somehow21:27
TreenaksI got sabdfl's "intrepid" announcement this morning21:27
persiaslangasek: Fair, but I thought releases happened in -9 or something these days anyway :)21:27
slangasekpersia: -8, yes... :)21:28
slangasekTreenaks: sabdfl's mail to u-d-a was delayed because it hadn't been moderated; I moderate my own mails to u-d-a so that's not related21:28
Treenaksslangasek: US/West?21:28
slangasekTreenaks: US/Pacific, yes21:28
Treenaksslangasek: sabdfl's mail to u-d-a was in the archives >12hrs before I received it21:29
Treenaksslangasek: but I admit I might have to spank my postfix, because it does weird things (like giving spurious 4xx statuses) sometimes21:30
davmor2slangasek: do you know if the images are on the rsync server?21:32
slangasekdavmor2: well, you should be able to find out quickly enough if you use the date serial (20080221.1) in your rsync command21:37
slangasekit's either there or it's not :)21:37
Treenaksslangasek: ooh.. suspense! :)21:37
slangasekmr_pouit, somerville32: any plans to fix the size problems on xubuntu alternate for alpha-5?21:39
=== mako is now known as posingasblogging
=== posingasblogging is now known as mako
Nafalloemgent: hiya21:53
jdongbryce: just an update, it's neither -core nor intel causing the problem, I experienced a freeze on a subsequent reboot using the setup I detailed above. Looks like on some reboots though the system works like a dream while on others just starting up mplayer hardlocks the system21:56
jdongbryce: so yeah, I'll try setting migration heuristics to Always when I get a chance to and report back21:56
bryceweird, ok21:56
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
jdongyeah this is really strange, because before everything worked fine21:57
jdongI did apply the keyboard firmware and "video update" from OS X this morning21:57
jdongthe former sounds irrelevant, the latter sounds fishy21:58
jdongthough I understood it as an OS X driver update that should not do anything to the hardware21:58
* jdong cries a bit21:58
TheMusoDoes anybody knw why -es langpacks are broken?22:11
* TheMuso is looking at UbuntuStudio's disk report.22:11
slangasekTheMuso: which package, specifically?22:17
TheMusolanguage-support, language-support-translations language-support-writing, mozilla locales, and thunderbird locales, all the -es stuff.22:19
=== ember_ is now known as ember
geserTheMuso: LP ate ispanish22:20
geser(and some other ispell dicts)22:21
TheMusogeser: THanks, I'll just yank that langpack for now.22:21
geserTheMuso: I see now that it should be back22:23
geserit has a published record again22:23
slangasekgeser: hrm, still missing from the Packages file though22:25
TheMusoMeh, I'll just yank it for now, we can do without it for an alpha.22:26
geserhmm, when I look at the dates at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/ispanish/+index for the first entry, I'm not sure it should be there or not22:26
Keybukwe don't put users in the users group?22:26
geser"Published  on 2008-02-14" and "Removed from disk  on 2008-02-16"22:27
NafalloKeybuk: defaults to their own group AFAIK.22:28
NafalloKeybuk: I usually change that first thing on servers though ;-)22:28
gesercprov: do you know how the current status of ispanish is? should it appear on a.u.c. again?22:28
cprovgeser: what does LP say ?22:29
geserthe status column says published but when I expand the entry and look at the dates I'm not sure anymore22:30
gesercprov: because of "Published  on 2008-02-14" and "Removed from disk  on 2008-02-16"22:30
cprovgeser: it was badly rescued by me, let me fix it.22:31
cprovgeser: I will fix it later LPDB is down and I have to go. What matters  is the date published ... it should be in the a.u.c, it looks like a mirroring issues22:34
gesercprov: thanks, I see that idutch has a date for "removal request" after the date of "published". Could it make a problem it the future? it is currently on a.u.c22:36
cprovgeser: yes, it's very confusing I will make it pending again (with empty dates) so we can be sure it will end up in the archive pool22:38
gesercprov: icatalan and ilithuanian are in the same situation as idutch (with ispell that are the four package I could find which were affected)22:40
cprovgeser: sure, the ones that I've changes before.22:40
gesercprov: thanks for fixing it22:41
cprovgeser: the files will be published correctly in the next publishing cycle, they should reach the mirror in 1 hour or so.22:53
=== cprov is now known as cprov-out
slangasekoh argh, now why do I have an oversized amd64 liveCD where it wasn't before?23:14
* Nafallo is not sure he will even try to answer that one ;-)23:15
=== gouki_ is now known as gouki
Keybukpitti: not around I guess?23:49

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