[00:16] <Hobbsee> intrepid ibex, hey?
[00:17] <infinity> Yeah, my suggestion of Incontinent Imbecile was rejected.
[00:17] <StevenK> Hah
[00:18] <Hobbsee> HAHA
[00:18] <Hobbsee> oops, caps
[00:41]  * lamont kicks /etc/event.d.
[00:41] <lamont> how do I get the system to reconize changes there?
[00:41] <lamont> short of reboot, that is
[02:58] <Chipzz> ScottK: errr, yes it (maintaining a mixed system) IS documented; it's called pinning and is documented in man apt_preferences
[02:59] <ion_> FSVO documented
[02:59] <Chipzz> although I should poorly documented :P
[02:59] <Chipzz> ion_: ;)
[02:59] <ScottK> Not supported though
[02:59] <Chipzz> ion_: I found that manpage to be really confusing ;)
[02:59] <Chipzz> ScottK: yeah but the guy was asking about documentation ;)
[03:00] <Chipzz> s/confusing/complex and lacking examples/
[03:01] <ScottK> K.  I took it more as I did this really odd thing to my system, I want to do something odder, and want it to work.  Please help.
[03:01] <Chipzz> question of interpretation I guess ;)
[03:08] <Chipzz> the one thing I did try to achieve with apt/preferences, I failed at :P
[03:08] <Chipzz> which was trying to convince apt that packages recompiled locally and installed with dpkg -i should take precedence
[03:11] <Chipzz> but then, I don't even know if that's possible (or if apt/preferences is the right way to do that)
[04:31] <superm1> slangasek, still going to have time to look over the changes to cdimage with me?
[04:55] <choudesh_> Anyone around?
[04:55] <Hobbsee> no
[04:55] <choudesh> heh. ;-)
[04:55] <choudesh> Is the 8.04 kernel compiled with the HIGHMEM flag?
[05:03] <emgent> heya Hobbsee :)
[05:03] <Hobbsee> hey emgent!
[05:15] <_MMA_> choudesh: I believe it is for 32-bit.
[05:58] <slangasek> superm1: is there a branch I can look at?  I think I can squeeze in looking at the changes, but only asynchronously
[05:58] <superm1> slangasek, yeah there is.
[05:58] <superm1> slangasek, let me get you a url
[05:59] <superm1> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/ubuntu-cdimage/mythbuntu-cdimage/
[05:59] <slangasek> superm1: thanks, pulling for later
[06:00] <superm1> slangasek, thanks.  let me know if you have any questions or concerns.  i'll be up for 1-2 more hours, otherwise i'll answer in the morning
[06:01] <slangasek> yah, I don't think I'll get to it until tomorrow anyway, I'm a bit sleep-deprived ATM
[07:08] <pitti> Good morning
[07:11] <warp10> Hi all!
[07:25] <tjaalton> pitti, slangasek: the latest xorg-server upload is not built yet?
[07:25] <tjaalton> -intel needs that
[07:26] <pitti> tjaalton: built everywhere
[07:26] <dholbach> good morning
[07:26] <pitti> hey dholbach
[07:27] <dholbach> hey pitti
[07:27] <tjaalton> pitti: but not published? -1ubuntu4 is the one
[07:30] <slangasek> tjaalton: published too.  there've been some mirror pulse issues, I know; perhaps your local mirror is lagged as a result of that
[07:31] <tjaalton> slangasek: ah ok, I'm using archive.u.c ;)
[07:31] <pitti> tjaalton: ah, just wanted to say the same
[07:32] <tjaalton> slangasek: I uploaded a new -intel which build-deps on the latest xserver-xorg-dev, and drops the patch which forces XAA on !965
[07:32] <slangasek> tjaalton: perhaps archive.u.c is lagged as a result of that ;-P
[07:32] <tjaalton> hope it's ok..
[07:32] <tjaalton> we discussed these with bryce
[07:33] <slangasek> tjaalton: is that a new new -intel, or the new -intel that I know about already from talking to bryce ~24h ago?
[07:33] <bryce> same -intel
[07:33] <slangasek> ok
[07:33] <slangasek> that one's built & published, but perhaps not published as far as we'd like
[07:34] <tjaalton> slangasek: it's the same, but with the latest patch disabled since it turns out that compiz has issues with XAA&Xv at least on some i9xx in addition to 965
[07:35] <tjaalton> it's published, but doesn't do what we'd like it to do :)
[07:35] <tjaalton> ie. force greedy EXA
[07:35] <bryce> yeah users are reporting that our fix for 965 also works great on other intel chips
[07:36] <slangasek> so what you're saying is that you want a -2ubuntu7?
[07:36] <tjaalton> exactly
[07:37] <slangasek> the current behavior isn't a regression, right?
[07:38] <bryce> it's not a regression from gutsy (we had been running XAA there)
[07:39] <slangasek> so no urgent reason to try to squeeze it into alpha5..?
[07:39] <bryce> but for alpha3 and 4 we'd turned EXA on for everyone, which we assumed worked no differently than XAA
[07:40] <tjaalton> exa has been there since 2.2.0 was uploaded..
[07:40] <slangasek> ah
[07:40] <bryce> however users are saying they had been finding EXA fixed things for them, they just hadn't really told us until this patch to put them back to XAA went in
[07:40] <slangasek> heh. :)  ok, go ahead and upload 7 and I'll try to see that it gets squeezed onto the ISOs
[07:40] <Fujitsu> Is XAA actually meant to work with Xv? It never has for me.
[07:41] <bryce> ok cool
[07:41] <bryce> Fujitsu: I only knew that it didn't work with 965.
[07:42] <bryce> (but then, on my 945 where I play video regularly, compiz had been crashing left and right anyway)
[07:45] <tjaalton> slangasek: already did, I assumed that you'd put it on hold if not acceptable for a5 :)
[07:58] <Pete_B> can anyone please tell me the dependencies of the lamp-server virtual package? (I'm not running Ubuntu so can't check myself)
[08:10] <sladen> peter_b:  http://packages.ubuntu.com/hardy/lamp-server  except that doesn't return any results, did it get renamed?
[08:19] <sladen> pete_b: grep -A8 lamp-server /usr/share/tasksel/ubuntu-tasks.desc
[08:22] <pitti> infinity: gcc-3.3 upload> ... but it already was in universe before?
[08:28] <\sh> asac: ff3 + flash + usb headset (in this case a sennheiser) doesn't work...I wonder if it's a regression of gnome/ff3+flash or something else
[08:45] <soren> pitti: Now that the gcc issue is taken care of in kvm, everything is fine, right?
[08:46] <pitti> soren: yes, it is; I'll get to review/promoting it soon
[08:46] <soren> pitti: Cool. Thanks.
[08:47] <soren> Just wanted to make sure it wasn't blocking on me somehow.
[08:52] <davmor2> Do we have stable images across the board now, for testing purposes?
[08:52] <mvo> hey sladen! will you be at fosdem?
[08:53] <sladen> mvo: a bit late if I do turn up.  Ferry to Rostock left 22:00 last night and I was too busy watching the fresh snow to watch it
[08:54] <sladen> s/watch/catch the ferry/
[08:54] <mvo> sladen: heh :) ok
[08:54] <slytherin> Does a MIR bug need to be marked confirmed?
[08:57] <sladen> silly Deutsch Bahn site is suggesting I go via St. Petersburg.  meh germany technology.
[08:58] <seb128> do we have anybody looking to fuse in ubuntu?
[08:58] <davmor2> sladen: it's a long bike ride any way you look at it ;)
[08:58] <seb128> looks like the rmdir behaviour on ntfs fuse mounts is not correct
[08:58] <seb128> I would like to know if that's a known issue
[08:59] <pitti> seb128: you mean ntfs-3g or fuse proper?
[08:59] <seb128> pitti: no idea, whatever we use to mount ntfs partitions
[08:59] <seb128> ntfs-3g likely
[08:59] <seb128> rmdir gives a  = -1 EEXIST (File exists)
[08:59] <seb128> instead of a = -1 ENOTEMPTY (Directory not empty)
[09:00] <seb128> when used on a non empty directory
[09:00] <seb128> that breaks gvfs
[09:00] <slytherin> And I thought only I was having this problem
[09:00] <seb128> slytherin: ?
[09:01] <slytherin> ntfs-3g here (default install)
[09:01] <slytherin> seb128: I get error when trying to delete folders with files inside
[09:01] <seb128> slytherin: you are the one who opened the bug?
[09:02] <slytherin> seb128: No. I didn't
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: yep, ntfs-3g likely
[09:04] <pitti> seb128: there is a new upstream version allegedly, which we should update anyway
[09:04] <pitti> (not for alpha5, though)
[09:05] <pitti> seb128: aside from that it seems easy enough to fix; can you subscribe me to the bug #?
[09:05] <pitti> I'm happy to take a look
[09:06] <carlos> pitti: hi, should I accept translations for x264 package? it's in multiverse
[09:06] <pitti> carlos: good question; why not?
[09:07] <carlos> pitti: it's not a package in main, so I just wanted to check it ;-)
[09:07] <seb128> pitti: bug #186569, I've subscribed you
[09:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 186569 in ntfs-3g "cannot delete files off of an Fuse mounted NTFS partition in nautilus" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/186569
[09:07] <pitti> carlos: you are afraid of violating LP's usage policy or so?
[09:07] <carlos> pitti: no, there is no problem in Launchpad side
[09:07] <pitti> seb128: taking
[09:07] <carlos> pitti: I was more worried in the fact that the translations will be installed in language packs
[09:08] <pitti> oh
[09:08] <carlos> which are in main
[09:08] <pitti> carlos: no, that shouldn't happen
[09:08] <pitti> I thought LP would import universe translations, but not export them to langpacks?
[09:08] <carlos> we ignore those imports to prevent translation effort lose
[09:08] <carlos> until we implement a way to deploy it
[09:12] <asac> \sh: hard to tell.
[09:16] <\sh> asac: i test it a bit later with loudspeakers attached to the default soundcard, so i can trace this problem
[09:27] <pitti> carlos: ok, then we better ignore it
[09:28] <carlos> ok
[09:30] <geser> good morning
[09:38] <pitti> hi geser
[09:53] <geser> Hi pitti
[09:54] <Hobbsee> guten tag pitti
[09:55]  * pitti hugs Hobbsee
[09:56]  * Hobbsee hugs pitti back!
[10:55] <lool> pitti: elisa dep changes applied with | python >= 2.5 (as also mentionned by pochu); thanks
[10:55] <pitti> lool: great, thanks; I'm not fussed about python2.5 or python (>= 2.5)
[10:56] <pitti> the latter is better for forwards compatibility, right
[10:56] <lool> Well elisa runs with the default python ATM, so these are only optional if it's >= 2.5
[10:57] <pitti> StevenK: oh, the joys of de-yada-ifying (just did it for ossp-uuid)
[10:57] <StevenK> Yay!
[11:11] <pitti> soren: I wonder whether kvm-source should better stay in universe? I take it on hardy release kvm-source and l-u-m should ideally be synchronized?
[11:12] <soren> pitti: Well, not l-u-m, but yes.
[11:12] <soren> And that is currently the case.
[11:12] <pitti> right, it's in linux proper
[11:12] <pitti> ok, done
[11:12] <soren> Feel free to leave kvm-source in universe.
[11:12]  * soren hugs pitti
[11:12] <pitti> soren: can you please get it seeded?
[11:12] <soren> Sure.
[11:30] <davmor2> Can anyone tell me please if the Ubuntu cd's are safe for testing?
[11:32] <dredg> depends what you mean by safe. there's always the chance a cd could shatter and cut you
[11:32] <Hobbsee> davmor2: slangasek should be able to answer you
[11:34] <soren> dredg: I hate that :(
[11:56] <cjwatson> mvo: 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop' installs recommends from the metapackage. 'apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^' does not.
[11:56] <cjwatson> mvo: this feels like an apt bug to me?
[12:07] <cjwatson> mvo: this happens even if I set APT::Install-Recommends=true. I think perhaps MarkInstall never gets called with AutoInst==true?
[12:15] <cjwatson> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4824/ seems to fix it, but I'm not entirely certain what other effects it would have?
[12:17] <cjwatson> mvo: (this is alpha-5-critical, by the way; we're only running into it as a consequence of other problems, but those seem a lot harder to address)
[12:31] <ogra_cmpc> cjwatson, oh, you pushed kdeedu completely into desktop-kde ... if i add it to desktop-addon now that will pull in the deps i guess ?
[12:32] <sabdfl> Riddell: help re displayconfig
[12:33] <sabdfl> Riddell: is there a known issue with the display configuration in Hardy?
[12:33] <sabdfl> complaining about being unable to find libpython2.5.so, iirc
[12:33] <cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: I don't think I made any changes as far as the position of kdeedu is concerned
[12:34] <cjwatson> ogra_cmpc: yes, seed dependency resolution works as normal
[12:34] <ogra_cmpc> cjwatson, no, that change was made before aolready (it was in live and the old addon seed)
[12:34] <ogra_cmpc> we did that for gutsy
[12:35] <ogra_cmpc> hmm, unpredictable growth then, i'll keep it for after alpha then
[12:35] <ogra_cmpc> the desktop install works fine from g-a-i now :)
[12:36] <cjwatson> excellent
[12:36] <davmor2> The new ubiquity doesn't set the country and keyboard defaults after the world map anymore.  Is this known?
[12:37] <ogra_cmpc> having .desktop files for -desktop metapackages seems worth to have for all of them imho
[12:37] <ogra_cmpc> we should discuss that at UDS
[12:37] <cjwatson> davmor2: #ubuntu-installer
[12:37] <davmor2> cjwatson: ta
[12:39] <Riddell> sabdfl: yes, that's a known issue, it's on my todo for fixing
[12:39] <Riddell> sabdfl: but it has larger problems too due to changes in xorg.conf files so it may disappear altogether
[12:40] <Riddell> sabdfl: you can install python2.5-dev to work around that issue
[12:41] <__keybuk> asac: default firefox launcher is broken, known?
[12:42] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, sorry I was at lunch, checking it now
[12:43] <asac> __keybuk: yes we will go back to firefox.desktop in next upload
[12:43] <asac> (if that is what you mean)
[12:43] <mvo> Riddell: what are your plans re> displayconfig? is there someone working on fixing it?
[12:45] <DktrKranz> pitti, it seems SRU candidate in bug 41491 is not sufficient, what's the procedure in these cases?
[12:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 41491 in wzdftpd "Dapper: Broken dependencies for some wzdftpd modules" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41491
[12:45] <Riddell> mvo: there is not
[12:45] <Riddell> mvo: bryce wants to replace it with improved xrandr tools
[12:46] <pitti> DktrKranz: upload a fixed one
[12:46] <mvo> Riddell: yes, I have seen that (and think that its the right way) - is there a kde version for this in the works too?
[12:47] <pitti> DktrKranz: we can kill the version in -proposed if it is worse than the one in -release
[12:47] <Riddell> mvo: not that I know of
[12:47] <pitti> cjwatson: yay, I just wrote "msgequal" to weed out msgid == msgstr
[12:47] <cjwatson> mvo: the two commands I gave are enough to reproduce in a clean debootstrap
[12:47] <DktrKranz> pitti, it's not worse, because now there's only one packae which has unmetdeps (against three than -release)
[12:47] <cjwatson> pitti: ooh, neat
[12:48] <pitti> cjwatson: /usr/include/gettext-po.h FTW :)
[12:48] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, doing that now
[12:53] <pochu> doko: are you aware of bzrtools 1.2.0-1ubuntu1 failing to upgrade with latest pycentral? I get this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4826/plain/
[12:55] <ogra_cmpc> wow, virtualbox through ssh -X works really well :)
[12:59] <doko> pochu: yes, we (mvo and me) don't yet understand why the preinst is not run. this only happens for upgrades from 1.2.0-1build1. you can work around by using apt-get --reinstall install bzrtools
[13:00] <edsiper> is *jemalloc* going to be integrated in ubuntu 8.04 ?
[13:02] <pochu> doko: ok, nice that you are aware of it. do you want me to submit it to lp (via apport) ?
[13:07] <mvo> cjwatson: I can reproduce the different behavior here, I looked closer and it seems that the Task: in the Packages file is incorrect (or not in sync with the metapackages). if you look at e.g. landscape-client, that one is part of ubuntu-desktop as a recommends but in my chroot apt-cache show landscape-client does not list ubuntu-desktop as a task
[13:07] <mvo> cjwatson: apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^ is really just using the task information from the packages file
[13:07] <cjwatson> mvo: yes, that is a bug (harder to fix), and is triggering the bug in apt; but I think it is nevertheless a bug in apt
[13:08] <cjwatson> mvo: the ubuntu-desktop metapackage is part of the ubuntu-desktop task, and as such apt should honour Install-Recommends-Sections and install Recommends from the ubuntu-desktop metapackage
[13:08] <cjwatson> even if they aren't in the task
[13:08] <davmor2> Ubiquity is frozen at 94% on ubuntu 32 bit and 64 bit
[13:08] <cjwatson> mvo: I wrote an analysis of the bug you describe to #ubuntu-release; it's going to take some seed changes and a Launchpad change to fix
[13:09] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, I see. let me look a bit closer at the code so that I can get a better idea why it is run this way
[13:10] <cjwatson> 12:28 <cjwatson> the underlying problem here is that the seed_map stuff in *-meta/update.cfg is only there, and not in the seeds, so Launchpad is unable to make use of it for generating Task fields
[13:10] <cjwatson> 12:29 <cjwatson> it's actually not a new problem - note the lack of Task field in base-files which strictly speaking should have Task: ubuntu-minimal
[13:10] <cjwatson> 12:29 <cjwatson> err, Task: minimal I mean
[13:10] <cjwatson> 12:30 <cjwatson> but in order to fix it we'll need a Launchpad change, and if we can work around it by fixing the apt bug it appears to be triggering, I'd prefer that to having to ask for a cherry-pick
[13:10] <cjwatson> this is in turn triggered by the seed reorganisation which split part of the desktop seed out into desktop-common (and desktop-kubuntu-common for kubuntu/kubuntu-kde4)
[13:18] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks for the background. I think I wrote the code under the assumption that the task header would be present on the packages, your change is fine if that assumption is incorrect. I can do a upload with that fix
[13:22] <cjwatson> mvo: I think the best way to describe it is "incorrect for the time being" :-)
[13:22] <cjwatson> mvo: I'll definitely try to get the systemic and Launchpad bugs fixed. Thanks!
[13:24] <mvo> cjwatson: ok .) let me do a final test and then I do the upload
[13:41] <mvo> cjwatson: hrm, your fix helps, but its not perfect, there is still a delta between the task install and the meta-package (also smaller) - I look a bit deeper
[13:42] <cjwatson> mvo: hmm, ok
[13:42] <cjwatson> I admit I didn't do a proper comparison, I was just looking for ones I knew were left out by mistake
[13:43] <ogra_cmpc> mvo, do we have *any* GL checks left in compiz (read: is there still a blacklist where we could add xephyr) ?
[13:44] <ogra_cmpc> seems the desktop crashes in xephyr sessions with a message about texture_from_pixmap (which i belive comes from compiz)
[13:45] <mvo> cjwatson: wdiff with fix compared to metapkg http://paste.ubuntu.com/4827/
[13:46] <mvo> ogra_cmpc: yes and yes
[13:46] <ogra_cmpc> ok
[13:46] <mvo> ogra_cmpc: it crashes?
[13:46] <ogra_cmpc> wait a sec
[13:46] <mvo> ogra_cmpc: no fallback to metacity?
[13:46] <ogra_cmpc> apparently no fallback
[13:46] <johnny> beep
[13:46] <ogra_cmpc> johnny is the guy who works on sabayon atm
[13:47] <johnny> one of the guys..
[13:47] <ogra_cmpc> which is supposed to switch to xephyr at some point
[13:47] <mvo> ogra_cmpc: strange, it should fall back
[13:47] <johnny> we hope..
[13:47] <ogra_cmpc> johnny, *the* guy in ubuntu :)
[13:47] <johnny> im a guy in ubuntu?
[13:47] <ogra_cmpc> :P
[13:48] <johnny> not officially at least
[13:48] <johnny> my main OS is gentoo, i just happen to use ubuntu all over the place elsewhere :)
[13:48] <ogra_cmpc> mvo, can we blacklist it (likely post alpja stuff though)
[13:48] <ogra_cmpc> *alpha
[13:49] <johnny> is this a place where you guys talking about issues you have with specific apps in hardy?
[13:49] <johnny> i'm still having troubles with 2.22 and sabayon that i have replicated with hardy
[13:49] <cjwatson> johnny: no, this is the Ubuntu developer coordination channel
[13:49] <johnny> but i don't know anybody familiar with gvfs to know what should happen
[13:50] <ogra_cmpc> cjwatson, he cares for our sabayon package a lot
[13:50] <johnny> got some patches merged in
[13:51] <johnny> hmm.. need to find the guy who maintains the current sabayon dev, gotta tell him that i removed gnomesu from the desktop file
[13:51] <cjwatson> mvo: odd, fontconfig depends on fontconfig-config; why would the latter ever not be installed?
[13:51] <johnny> now you can add gksu or not.. depending on the setup
[13:51] <mvo> ogra_cmpc: sure
[13:52] <ogra_cmpc> thanks
[13:52] <mvo> cjwatson: I have no idea at the moment, I'm looking at it, sorry
[13:52] <cjwatson> mvo: fontconfig-config is installed in both cases for me
[13:53] <mvo> cjwatson: with -o APT::Install-Recommends=true or without?
[13:54] <cjwatson> mvo: without
[13:54] <cjwatson> just with the default install-recommends-sections stuff
[13:55] <cjwatson> mvo: the only difference for me with my patch is mousetweaks, which was a recent addition and I think the metapackage just hasn't been updated yet
[13:55] <cjwatson> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/4829/
[13:56] <mvo> cjwatson: thanks, maybe something odd in my chroot
[13:56]  * mvo investigates
[13:58] <mvo> cjwatson: right, my bad. the fix is fine
[13:59] <ogra_cmpc> johnny, btw, could you try setting /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/current and /desktop/gnome/applications/window_manager/default to metacity and see if it doesnt crash with that ?
[13:59] <ogra_cmpc> (in gconf-editor)
[14:00] <johnny> it crashes before i get a chance
[14:00] <johnny> i'm just going to put at-properties in /etc/xdg/autostart
[14:00] <ogra_cmpc> it uses your default desktiop
[14:00] <johnny> with autostart disabled
[14:02] <johnny> oh.. that's a seperate thing
[14:02] <johnny> i was thinking of something else
[14:02] <johnny> oops
[14:02] <johnny> what uses my default desktop?
[14:02] <cjwatson> mvo: ok, cool
[14:03] <ogra_cmpc> johnny, sabayon should use your default desktop
[14:03] <ogra_cmpc> as starting point
[14:03] <mvo> cjwatson: preparing the upload now
[14:03] <johnny> it says that key has been deprecated?
[14:03] <ogra_cmpc> if you switch the default to metacity it shouldnt choke on compiz
[14:04] <ogra_cmpc> johnny, thats an upstream comment ... its still used regardless
[14:04] <johnny> ok
[14:04] <pitti> ArneGoetje, cjwatson: I rolled out the langpack-o-matic fix to eliminate msgid==msgstr translations, FYI
[14:04] <ogra_cmpc> (we should probably fix teh text for final release)
[14:06] <johnny> same diff
[14:07] <johnny> it says it aborts and uses metacity, but that is too late
[14:08] <cjwatson> pitti: nice
[14:10] <pitti> cjwatson: ah, thanks for devscripts
[14:26] <mvo> ogra_cmpc: just tested it with Xepyhr and compiz, the fallback works ok for me
[14:27] <ogra> hmm, then it must be the way sabayon calls it i guess
[14:28] <mvo> ogra: if you can give me instructions how to reproduce I'm happy to have a look
[16:30] <emgent`work> packages.ubuntu.com is down ?
[16:30] <cjwatson> not run by us, the same guy who runs packages.debian.org runs it
[16:30] <dholbach> Ubuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom
[16:33] <selckin> really sucks ubuntu.org isn't what i think it is every time i type it in
[16:36] <infinity> pitti: gcc-3.3 was moved to universe without anyone realising that libgcc1 builds from gcc-3.3 on hppa.  We ended up with override mismatches, DAK exploded, I cried.
[16:36] <pitti> infinity: oh, erk; thanks
[17:06] <slangasek> tjaalton: eh... soft freeze, so I wouldn't have had any way to put it on hold if we needed to roll new CDs
[17:06] <mario_limonciell> slangasek, is there currently any intention of DVDs with this release?
[17:06] <mario_limonciell> <this alpha>
[17:07] <slangasek> mario_limonciell: no, that would get me yelled at about disk space
[17:10] <Chipzz> (sorry for the off-topic question; but does anyone know if there's a channel where the opers hang out?)
[17:11] <Chipzz> (#opers appears to be a no-go)
[17:18] <Pici> Chipzz: If you need to speak to freenode staff, #freenode is the place, for Ubuntu operators, you can try #ubuntu-irc or #ubuntu-ops. (depending on the type of issue, see the channel topics)
[17:23] <Chipzz> Pici: thx!
[17:23] <Chipzz> (I needed #freenode ;))
[17:42] <pranith> hello, which channel do i join for the developer week irc's?
[17:42] <pranith> the bughelper session in particular?
[17:42] <Mithrandir> 17:30 < dholbach> Ubuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom
[17:43] <pranith> thank you
[18:21] <Mithrandir> do we yet have any way to modify pam configs when packages get installed?
[18:21] <Mithrandir> I'd like libpam-ck-connector.so to be added, either programatically or to the default config
[18:24] <slangasek> there's auth-client-config
[18:25] <slangasek> for intrepid I'm hoping for a reworked pam config framework
[18:25] <slangasek> but that didn't come along quickly enough for hardy
[18:27] <Mithrandir> this is for mobile, so I'd rather not install too much stuff like auth-client-config
[18:27] <Mithrandir> (and is that supposed to be driven from maintainer scripts?)
[18:29] <slangasek> dunno.  that's all that exists today, though; the proper in-pam solution is still a cycle away
[18:33] <Riddell> evand, cjwatson: I've got a patch to add proxy support to ubiquity's qt side, is now a suitable time to commit it?
[18:34] <evand> Riddell: should be.  I've already uploaded the fixed ubiquity for bug 193986
[18:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 193986 in ubiquity "Ubiquity is locking up at 94% Configuring Hardware" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193986
[18:35] <Riddell> evand: committed, hugs to nixternal
[18:36] <davmor2> yeah
[18:36] <davmor2> evand does that mean we'll have a new cd in a bit :)
[18:37] <evand> thanks Riddell and nixternal
[18:37] <evand> davmor2: eventually.  ubiquity needs to build and the cd build system needs time to get the update and then make new images.
[18:37] <davmor2> cool :)
[18:40] <bryce> cjwatson: you about?  perhaps this would be a good time to talk with tjaalton about input-hotplug?
[18:40] <evand> bryce: I believe he left around :15
[18:41] <tjaalton> slangasek: uh ok, will remember it the next time ((=won't happen again)
[18:41] <evand> not sure when he'll be back though
[18:41] <bryce> oh, ok, too bad
[18:41] <tjaalton> bryce: my gprs-connection is busy downloading a java-plugin for FF, so it's quite laggy atm :)
[18:42] <bryce> boo java ;-)
[18:43] <bryce> tjaalton: anyway, with input-hotplug the question is how to get to a stable point - would it be easier to revert back to having input stuff specified in xorg.conf, or to complete the work for making input-hotplug function properly?
[18:44] <tjaalton> bryce: it would be easier to revert back
[18:45] <bryce> tjaalton: given that we may not know what bugs may appear even after turning input-hotplug on, maybe that would be the safest thing to do?
[18:48] <tjaalton> bryce: indeed
[18:48] <bryce> tjaalton: what is your opinion?
[18:51] <tjaalton> bryce: I'm leaning towards status quo, and bringing back the synaptics entries to dexconf
[18:51] <tjaalton> since hal upstream is not helping
[18:52]  * bryce nods
[18:52] <bryce> tjaalton: I think I agree; last I talked with cjwatson he was of similar mind
[18:54] <tjaalton> maybe we could ship a script which generates an fdi-file from xkb configuration so people can start using it if they like
[18:55] <bryce> that's a good idea
[18:58] <bryce> tjaalton: also expectations are going to be that with input-hotplug that things work at least as well as in gutsy, but since things are still not fully matured upstream with this, it's hard to guarantee
[18:59] <bryce> also, I'm a bit worried about that we don't have config utilities yet, so even with input-hotplug working, people will find it difficult to customize beyond the defaults
[18:59] <tjaalton> yeah, and because upstream input maintainers hate every single component that is related... even the evdev driver deserves a rewrite :P
[19:00] <bryce> yup
[19:00] <bryce> ok sounds like a decent plan - do you want to do the dexconf reverts, or would you like my help with that?
[19:01] <tjaalton> either works, although I'm away most of this week so it would have to wait until Monday
[19:02] <bryce> I think Monday would be soon enough
[19:02] <tjaalton> yeah
[19:02] <bryce> I'll go ahead and outline this plan to cjwatson and on the bug report
[19:03] <tjaalton> ok cool
[19:04] <jdong> hey while I have you two here.... I'm having an intriguing xorg-video-intel bug
[19:04] <jdong> seems like if I use xvideo,  suspend and resume then use xvideo again, X hangs and only lets me move the mouse
[19:04] <jdong> I can't click anything, keyboard totally locked, power button doesn't respond either
[19:05] <jdong> (Compiz, EXA, greedy migration). Any clues?
[19:09] <tjaalton> jdong: doesn't sound familiar.. filed a bug yet?
[19:10] <jdong> tjaalton: not yet, I'll reconfirm a few times and then file a bug if it's reproducible
[19:11] <tjaalton> ok
[19:18] <jdong> tjaalton: actually, the problem is more trivial than that to reproduce
[19:18] <jdong> tjaalton: xv+compiz seems to randomly
[19:18] <jdong> destroy the display
[19:19] <jdong> ~.
[19:19] <jdong> ~.
[19:22] <bryce> jdong, check through the bugs against -input; xvideo issues after suspend/resume sounds vaguely familiar
[19:24] <bryce> jdong: I've not looked into that issue myself yet, but it is likely an acpi and/or kernel issue (and so probably highly chipset-specific)
[19:24] <jdong> bryce / tjaalton after today's updates it seems like compiz+xvideo = hardlock on my macbook
[19:24] <jdong> it wasn't like this a few days ago
[19:24] <bryce> jdong: well the only change we've put in recently is the greedy patch stuff
[19:24] <bryce> which only affects 965
[19:28] <jdong> bryce: hmm just rolled back to -video-intel 2ubuntu6 and that worked fine
[19:28] <jdong> lemme apply the upgrade again and see what happens
[19:30] <bryce> jdong, hmm also try out 2ubuntu5.  iirc 2ubuntu7 merely reverted the patch in 2ubuntu6
[19:36] <jdong> nope 6 and 7 both happen
[19:36] <jdong> but it's all pretty random
[19:41] <bryce> hrm
[19:42] <bryce> ok, so it still happens with both 2ubuntu6 and 2ubuntu7?
[19:43] <bryce> 2ubuntu2 would probably be the next to try - 3 and 4 were mainly quirk releases iirc
[19:44] <bryce> jdong, ok anyway, please file a bug with as much info as you can gather (I'll probably forget our discussion here, so please summarize), and I'll take a look into it when I get a chance
[19:49] <jdong> bryce: indeed, I'll have to find some time to look into this more thoroughly
[20:02] <jdong> bryce: the combination core 1ubuntu3 and intel ubuntu6 seems to work
[20:02] <jdong> but core 1ubuntu4 with all intel versions seems to fail
[20:03] <jdong> I'll test this for the rest of the afternoon and let you know if this is wrong
[20:03] <bryce> cool thanks
[20:04] <bryce> so it is starting to sound like the issue may be that greedy fails on your hardware..... something I worried about
[20:05] <bryce> you might also try setting your migration heuristic to "always" (see man exa)
[20:06] <bryce> jdong: what does your `lspci | grep VGA` say?
[20:34] <alex-weej> debugging network-manager via my mum on the phone is not even funny
[20:36] <mrsno> alex-weej :) i was doing tech support via sms the other day, /sys/bus/pci/drivers/ipw3945/0000:02:01.0 is not easy to type :<
[20:36] <alex-weej> hehe
[20:37] <Elly> which package do the man pages for the pthreads functions (e.g.: pthread_create) live in?
[20:41] <Chipzz> Elly: off-hand, without checking, I would say manpages-dev
[20:42] <Chipzz> Elly: but this is not the right channel blablabla :), use http://packages.ubuntu.com/ ;)
[20:53] <Elly> Chipzz: I have manpages-dev installed already :P I just noticed there are no man pages for pthreads only - I have manpages for all the system calls and stuff, just pthreads docs appear to be missing
[20:54] <Chipzz> I betcha I can find it with one google search and one lookup on p.u.c :P
[20:54] <Chipzz> so, so should you :P
[20:55] <Elly> aha
[20:55] <Elly> thanks :)
[20:56] <davmor2> slangasek: You'll be glad to hear that Ubuntu Alt's aren't too bad.  Firefox applet is missing and bluetooth applet has vanished.
[21:01] <TheMuso> Do we have CDs tat need testing?
[21:03] <slangasek> TheMuso: more testing wouldn't hurt; I'm about to reroll all the images and the liveCDs are currently uninstallable, but more feedback on the current alternates could still be useful
[21:03] <slangasek> otherwise, give it a couple of hours and we'll have a whole new set
[21:03] <TheMuso> slangasek: I can wait, thanks for the heads up.
[21:03] <NthDegree> Got a technical question:  Is there any plans to add more proactive security to future compiles of Ubuntu? (Sorry if this is OT, but neither the wiki or the support channels really seem to know)
[21:03] <slangasek> davmor2: hopefully the changes that cjwatson_ made fix that problem for Ubuntu as well as Kubuntu
[21:04] <NthDegree> by proactive security I mean fortify_source and other such compiler features
[21:04] <davmor2> slangasek: we shall see in a bit I'm sure :)
[21:05] <ScottK2> NthDegree: Try in #ubuntu-hardened
[21:10] <doko> Mithrandir: thanks for the brightness fix!
[21:10] <Mithrandir> doko: it helps you too?
[21:11] <doko> Mithrandir: package is not yet available, but currently the screen is dimmed after about 5sec of inactivity and doesn't come back to full brightness after pressing a key
[21:12] <Mithrandir> ugh, ok.  I'm not sure it'll fix that.
[21:18] <slangasek> new kubuntu alternate CDs are up for testing, now with a properly-sized amd64 ISO
[21:19] <slangasek> davmor2: ^^ if you're keen to test whether the task issue is resolved for kubuntu alternate
[21:19]  * Treenaks pokes >5 of his own bugs (does that count? :))
[21:19] <RussellGee> Hi huys
[21:19] <slangasek> TheMuso: for 5-a-day? yes... :)
[21:19] <slangasek> er
[21:19] <Treenaks> slangasek: whoo :)
[21:19] <Treenaks> slangasek: the other t<tab> :)
[21:19] <slangasek> TheMuso: sorry, that was for Treenaks
[21:19] <davmor2> cool I'll check it out in a second
[21:21] <Gee> Hi guys
[21:21] <Gee> When will alpha 5 be released now ?
[21:23] <Gee> Anyone ?
[21:23] <Treenaks> Gee: well.. I guess when people get around to it
[21:23] <NthDegree> ScottK2: what's the development status of hardy like for a user interested in KDE 3.5.x?
[21:24] <ScottK2> NthDegree: --> #kubuntu-devel
[21:25] <ScottK2> NthDegree: If you join in #kubuntu-devel we can discuss there.
[21:25] <slangasek> Gee: tomorrow, as noted at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-February/000381.html
[21:26] <persia> slangasek: It's already "tomorrow" for some of us :p
[21:26]  * persia isn't advocating early release, just global timezones
[21:26] <Treenaks> persia: those people just need some adjustment to proper time zones ;)
[21:27] <slangasek> persia: yes, but not in Ubuntu Temps Coordonné
[21:27] <Gee> Weird, Im on the mailing list but i never got the announcement
[21:27] <Gee> Ok, thanks
[21:27] <Treenaks> the mailinglist is slow somehow
[21:27] <Treenaks> I got sabdfl's "intrepid" announcement this morning
[21:27] <persia> slangasek: Fair, but I thought releases happened in -9 or something these days anyway :)
[21:28] <slangasek> persia: -8, yes... :)
[21:28] <slangasek> Treenaks: sabdfl's mail to u-d-a was delayed because it hadn't been moderated; I moderate my own mails to u-d-a so that's not related
[21:28] <Treenaks> slangasek: US/West?
[21:28] <slangasek> Treenaks: US/Pacific, yes
[21:29] <Treenaks> slangasek: sabdfl's mail to u-d-a was in the archives >12hrs before I received it
[21:30] <Treenaks> slangasek: but I admit I might have to spank my postfix, because it does weird things (like giving spurious 4xx statuses) sometimes
[21:32] <davmor2> slangasek: do you know if the images are on the rsync server?
[21:37] <slangasek> davmor2: well, you should be able to find out quickly enough if you use the date serial (20080221.1) in your rsync command
[21:37] <slangasek> it's either there or it's not :)
[21:37] <Treenaks> slangasek: ooh.. suspense! :)
[21:39] <slangasek> mr_pouit, somerville32: any plans to fix the size problems on xubuntu alternate for alpha-5?
[21:52] <emgent> heya
[21:53] <Nafallo> emgent: hiya
[21:56] <jdong> bryce: just an update, it's neither -core nor intel causing the problem, I experienced a freeze on a subsequent reboot using the setup I detailed above. Looks like on some reboots though the system works like a dream while on others just starting up mplayer hardlocks the system
[21:56] <jdong> bryce: so yeah, I'll try setting migration heuristics to Always when I get a chance to and report back
[21:56] <bryce> weird, ok
[21:57] <jdong> yeah this is really strange, because before everything worked fine
[21:57] <jdong> I did apply the keyboard firmware and "video update" from OS X this morning
[21:58] <jdong> the former sounds irrelevant, the latter sounds fishy
[21:58] <jdong> though I understood it as an OS X driver update that should not do anything to the hardware
[21:58]  * jdong cries a bit
[22:11] <TheMuso> Does anybody knw why -es langpacks are broken?
[22:11]  * TheMuso is looking at UbuntuStudio's disk report.
[22:17] <slangasek> TheMuso: which package, specifically?
[22:19] <TheMuso> language-support, language-support-translations language-support-writing, mozilla locales, and thunderbird locales, all the -es stuff.
[22:20] <geser> TheMuso: LP ate ispanish
[22:21] <geser> (and some other ispell dicts)
[22:21] <TheMuso> geser: THanks, I'll just yank that langpack for now.
[22:23] <geser> TheMuso: I see now that it should be back
[22:23] <geser> it has a published record again
[22:25] <slangasek> geser: hrm, still missing from the Packages file though
[22:26] <TheMuso> Meh, I'll just yank it for now, we can do without it for an alpha.
[22:26] <geser> hmm, when I look at the dates at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/i386/ispanish/+index for the first entry, I'm not sure it should be there or not
[22:26] <Keybuk> ?!
[22:26] <Keybuk> we don't put users in the users group?
[22:27] <geser> "Published  on 2008-02-14" and "Removed from disk  on 2008-02-16"
[22:28] <Nafallo> Keybuk: defaults to their own group AFAIK.
[22:28] <Nafallo> Keybuk: I usually change that first thing on servers though ;-)
[22:28] <geser> cprov: do you know how the current status of ispanish is? should it appear on a.u.c. again?
[22:29] <cprov> geser: what does LP say ?
[22:30] <geser> the status column says published but when I expand the entry and look at the dates I'm not sure anymore
[22:30] <geser> cprov: because of "Published  on 2008-02-14" and "Removed from disk  on 2008-02-16"
[22:31] <cprov> geser: it was badly rescued by me, let me fix it.
[22:34] <cprov> geser: I will fix it later LPDB is down and I have to go. What matters  is the date published ... it should be in the a.u.c, it looks like a mirroring issues
[22:36] <geser> cprov: thanks, I see that idutch has a date for "removal request" after the date of "published". Could it make a problem it the future? it is currently on a.u.c
[22:38] <cprov> geser: yes, it's very confusing I will make it pending again (with empty dates) so we can be sure it will end up in the archive pool
[22:40] <geser> cprov: icatalan and ilithuanian are in the same situation as idutch (with ispell that are the four package I could find which were affected)
[22:40] <cprov> geser: sure, the ones that I've changes before.
[22:40] <geser> s/ispell/ispanish/
[22:41] <geser> cprov: thanks for fixing it
[22:53] <cprov> geser: the files will be published correctly in the next publishing cycle, they should reach the mirror in 1 hour or so.
[23:14] <slangasek> oh argh, now why do I have an oversized amd64 liveCD where it wasn't before?
[23:15]  * Nafallo is not sure he will even try to answer that one ;-)
[23:49] <Keybuk> pitti: not around I guess?