=== astro76_ is now known as astro76
=== doko_ is now known as doko
dholbachgood morning07:26
slytherincrevette: Good work on MIR. :-)08:11
* crevette needs to prepare its backpack for FOSDEM08:11
crevetteslytherin: a I'll be away from computer for one week, could you manage to ask upload of gnome-bluetooth 0.11 ?08:13
slytherincrevette: First we need to get obex-data-sever in main and bluez-gnome 0.21 in. :-)08:14
crevetteperhaps all will be done in less than 2 days, who knowns ?08:15
slytherincrevette: I will try to handle it in your absense.08:15
loolcrevette: Ah you're going to FOSDEM, perhaps we'll come across09:07
crevetteyoup I hope, do you know what I look alike ?09:08
loolI don't09:15
slytherincrevette: Looks like we were bit late with all the process. Alpha 5 is scheduled on 21st so those changes won't bee accepted as of now.09:22
Fenarioamanda and sg: are you planning on calling me now?12:37
=== cprov-out is now known as cprov
loolI was blinking at « In an interview with LinuxDevices, MontaVista's new president and CEO Russell "Rusty" Harris said the company ... »13:34
repeteAnyone know the login credentials for the Intel wiki?13:41
repetewrong window....13:41
* repete kicks xchat13:42
agoliveiralool: Rusty is now Montavista's CEO? That's cool :)14:00
bigontfheen: hi could you add the telepathy team to the bug bugcontact of telepathy-glib and telepathy-haze package14:10
Mithrandirbigon: you should talk to me, not tfheen. :-)14:29
bigonoh https://edge.launchpad.net/~telepathy says thath tfheen is the team owner14:30
agoliveiraMithrandir: Are you going tell him about your personas? :P14:32
loolbigon: (/whois Mithrandir :)14:32
bigondamm :p14:33
Mithrandirbigon: yes, tfheen is my other IRC client.  (Look at the away message. :-)14:34
suihkulokkipeople here going to FOSDEM?14:36
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
loolsuihkulokki: I am14:39
=== asac_ is now known as asac
Mithrandirbigon: anyway, added.14:43
agoliveirasuihkulokki: I can only dream about it :(14:46
slytherinMithrandir: Can you please look at FFE for bluez-gnome 0.21 and let me know if you have any questions?14:47
Mithrandirslytherin: isn't that blocked on obex-data-server in main first?14:48
slytherinMithrandir: yes, I just wanted to have a review of .diff.gz. :-) And yes there is also a bug for MIR for obex-data-server.14:49
Mithrandirslytherin: oh, I'll be happy to review the diff, but I can't approve the exception before we have o-d-s in main14:50
Mithrandirslytherin: bug #?14:50
bigonMithrandir: could you also see the FFE for tp-glib?14:51
slytherinbug 190405 for FFE and bug 193816 for MIR.14:51
bigonbug #193979 for tp-glib14:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193979 in telepathy-glib "Please sync telepathy-glib 0.7.3-1 (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19397914:52
slytherinbug #190405 for FFE, bug #193816 for MIR.14:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 190405 in bluez-gnome "[FFE] please upgrade bluez-gnome to 0.21" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19040514:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193816 in obex-data-server "Main Inclusion Request" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19381614:52
Mithrandirhm, I think we want 0.2 of o-d-s too, don't we?14:53
Mithrandirslytherin: there's a bug in how prep_mv_conffile is being called, it's being called without a package name14:55
Mithrandir(in the preinst)14:56
Mithrandirslytherin: also, doesn't browsing work now?  If so, why is it disabled?14:57
slytherinMithrandir: Browsing doesn't work as of now. The backend is not finished in gvfs, AFAIK.14:57
Mithrandirhm, not even with o-d-s?14:58
agoliveiraasac: Hi. Are you aware if the changes you've done in firefox are breaking openoffice builds? At least my builds on PPA are looking for firefox-xpcom and can't find it anymore.14:58
slytherinMithrandir: With o-d-s it is not browsing, it is usual ftp transfers.14:58
Mithrandirslytherin: ah14:58
Mithrandirslytherin: why does it still depend on gnome-vfs-obexftp then?14:59
slytherinMithrandir: In the hope that it will be fixed soon, considering that a obex patch is present for gvfs in gnome bugzilla. :-)15:00
Mithrandirapart from that, it looks fine to me15:01
slytherinMithrandir: Any more questions? :-)15:01
Mithrandirslytherin: nope15:02
Mithrandirbigon: looks fine to me, though sispoty seems to want a diff of the symbol file15:03
slytherinMithrandir: There have been some api changes in o-d-s 0.2 and I am not sure if bluez-gnome 0.21 has accomodated those changes. So I want to wait first to get o-d-s in main and FFE for bluez-gnome. Then we can think of upgrades.15:04
Mithrandirslytherin: ok15:06
MithrandirI thought it needed 0.2, but I haven't tested it myself15:06
bigonMithrandir: I've added the diff for exported symbols15:09
slytherinMithrandir: By the way, does the MIR bug need to marked confirmed?15:10
Mithrandirslytherin: what does the wiki page documenting the process say?15:12
asacagoliveira: right ... calc is working on that and afaik he already has a patch for this specific issue.15:12
agoliveiraasac: Ah, great. I'll poke him again later when he shows up. Thanks.15:13
asacbut i think he didn't upload yet, because he wanted to get other things done first. maybe ping him15:13
slytherinMithrandir: Doesn't say anything about confirming. I will leave it as it15:13
agoliveiraasac: Yep. Just checked out the latest source and it's the same I already have. I'll flush-ping him later :)15:18
asacagoliveira: whip him hard :-D15:19
agoliveiraasac: bad, bad, calc!15:20
smagounamitk: Can I use apt-get source to get the exact kernel installed on a given machine? I'm using Hardy+PPA, 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-8-lpia' pulls the source for 2.6.24-9.15.15:47
smagounamitk: 'apt-get source linux-image-2.6.24-8-lpia=2.6.24-8.14' claims source isn't available15:47
smagounamitk: and the latest linux-source package is 2.6.24-8.815:48
amitksmagoun: something like this will get you the exact source: dget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/restricted/l/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24_2.6.24.7-7.17.dsc;15:48
amitkadapt for kernel version, url, etc.15:49
amitkAbove command followed by 'dpkg-source -x *.dsc'15:49
smagounamitk: Thanks, I'll take that approach. I have to script a source download, I was hoping apt-get source could save me some time. 15:51
loolamitk: dget -x to extract after get ;)16:01
loolsmagoun: I have an ugly "list-debs" thingy to list .dsc URLs for me; it's especially useful when I'm under Ubuntu looking for Debian packages or vice-versa16:02
amitklool: ummm.. right :)16:02
loolsmagoun: It's really ugly, throw a nicer one at me if you write one ;) http://people.dooz.org/~lool/debian/list-debs16:03
amitklool: man page for dget says that it runs dpkg-source -x16:04
smagounlool: thanks, I'll take a look.16:06
smagounamitk: why isn't the linux-source package updated (automatically?) at the same time as the kernel?16:07
amitksmagoun: The package name isn't linux-source anymore - that was in gutsy, it is linux-<vers> now IIRC16:09
loolamitk: Yes, I just wanted you to save the dpkg-source -x call16:09
amitkand it should be automatically updated, this is all handled internally by the debian build and archive system16:09
amitklool: I saved one fork() or spawn() :-p16:10
loolBut how many keyboard interrupts, hmm?16:10
smagounamitk: ah, ok. There's a linux-source and a linux-source-<ver>. I only saw the metapackage16:11
dholbachUbuntu Developer Week is going on, join #ubuntu-classroom16:30
* rustyl starts creating a fresh hardy-ppa target16:52
* lool fears16:52
* GrueMaster hears a dog barking in the lonely distance....16:53
davidmAbout to start meeting16:59
MootBotMeeting started at 16:59. The chair is davidm.16:59
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:59
davidmGood day everyone, 16:59
davidmAgenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/2008022117:00
davidm[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/2008022117:01
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20080221 17:01
davidmHas anyone seen ChickenCutlass?17:01
bfillerstill on holiday17:02
davidmOK I'll postpone his action until next week then17:02
davidm[topic] cwong1 to to look into languages pack differences between midbrowser and firefox and report back.17:02
MootBotNew Topic:  cwong1 to to look into languages pack differences between midbrowser and firefox and report back. 17:02
cwong1Here is what I find out:17:03
cwong1Firefox lang pack is installed as an extension.17:03
cwong1We need to modify the install.rdf file in order for it to be able to install17:04
cwong1also, we have to add more stuff to the package.17:04
cwong1We need to translate the strings used by the Grabanddrag extension and add to the package.17:04
cwong1So the bottom line is we can just use the fireox's lang pack asis.17:05
cwong1I will attempt to create a lang pack and try it and see if it works.  17:06
kyleNit might be helpful is someone who really knows the ubuntu lang pack mechanisms, including those used with Moz, could help figure out a solution here.  17:07
kyleNs /is/if/17:07
davidmcwong1, will you have time to test this by next week?17:07
davidmcwong1, can you take an action to report back next week with results then?17:08
cwong1ok 17:08
cwong1kyleN: is Asac responsible for the ubuntu lang pack?17:09
kyleNcwong1: I am not sure, but I believe at least he is knowledgable17:09
davidm[action] cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results.17:09
MootBotACTION received:  cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results. 17:09
asaccwong1: i am certainly not responsible to translate them ;)17:09
kyleNcwong1: right, we need a solution that enables translation too17:09
kyleNvia luanchpad, like everything else17:10
asacbad news: launchpad team gave me heads up 2 days ago, that we won't have xpi export for hardy17:10
Mithrandirwell, firefox isn't translated through LP, so that's blocked on LP supporting that.17:10
asaci will still try to get something going, but i cannot tell how likely this is to succeed17:10
loolasac: Oh I just talked with Danilo about it and he said it was almost finished but not finished yet17:11
loolI thought it would be done for hardy :-(17:11
=== bspencer_ is now known as bspencer
asaclool: me too ... but 2 days ago things went different. i am now looking if i can hack something that allows us to map .po files to firefox translations 17:12
asacas launchpad supports import of .xpi, but no export17:12
asacbut i cannot tell yet if that will work.17:12
loolasac: That's what I was told to do for hildon msgids17:12
kyleNasac. we may face the same issue with hildon17:12
asacmaye someone can help out on eventual coding required to do this?17:13
loolasac: I'd suggest asking calc or looking at oo.o17:13
asaci would figure out the procedure (if possible at all), but help in code would be appreciated17:13
loolasac: As I was told it's doing this already17:13
asaclool: for the concept yes. but coding, testing all cases et al would require a bunch of work, i am not sure i can handle alone for hardy17:14
loolasac: Because of the XPI format itself?17:14
asacyes ... its definitly not trivial. i will give heads up next week. have to talk to launchpad folks (and calc) and so on17:14
kyleNdavidm: since translating hildon  seems like a requirement for mobile, can you and patm talk about resources to help with this coding?17:15
loolasac: Let's give you action to report your success or call for help for next week then?17:15
asacyes please17:15
loolkyleN: It's different with Hildon, it's PO17:15
kyleNI though hildon also uses XPI17:15
kyleNsome sort of po/xpi hybrid17:15
asacthat would be news ;)17:15
lool[action] (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this17:15
asaclool: thanks17:16
davidm[action] (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week.17:16
MootBotACTION received:  (asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week. 17:16
asacwell ... i hoped that some lead wold look around for help :)17:16
asacdavidm: thanks. we can look for help if i figured the theory17:16
loolkyleN: Hildon uses string ids, but XPIs?!17:16
* asac over and out17:16
loolkyleN: Perhaps we can discuss this after the meeting17:16
davidmasac, that works, lets take that off line then.17:16
kyleNi lool, I could be wrong, but someone mentioned that along the way17:16
davidmOK next topic?17:17
loolkyleN: Bring it up with me after the meeting then, please :)17:17
davidm[topic] kyleN to follow up with ToddBrandt offline on control panel i18n status.17:17
MootBotNew Topic:  kyleN to follow up with ToddBrandt offline on control panel i18n status. 17:17
kyleNToddBrandt said cotrol panels implement gettext but it is "not switched on"17:17
kyleNnot sue what that means really, but can it be "switched on"?17:18
loolToddBrandt: Are you by chance around to immediately comment?17:18
davidmanyone at Intel near when ToddBrandt is?17:19
rustylwell, adding a mo file with fake translations to the right local directory will test this real quick17:19
davidmmawhalen, thanks.17:19
loolI see _() calls all around the place, but no po/17:20
rustyli know that no translations have been created17:20
loolNo POT either17:20
rustylhmm... the applets run inside the hildon-desktop process17:21
rustylso if hildon-desktop is not properly initially gettext (setting local and all that jazz), then the gettext calls will not pick anything up17:22
rustylmaybe that is what ToddBrandt is talking about?17:22
loolI could get some pot file generated by inserting intltoo m4 macros and intltoolizing + intlool-updating --port17:22
loolrustyl: That would be a good explanation; did you discuss options around this already?17:23
loolIs it reasonnable to assign to ToddBrandt to generate proper templates in moblin-applets and perhaps tell us how he thinks we should handle gettext domain setting?17:23
rustyli haven't thought about it... just thinking on my feet right now17:23
rustylare the template files normally checked into the source tree?17:24
loolIs ToddBrandt around this week to give us more info on what's need to be done or to do it?17:24
rustyli normally just create them myself17:24
rustylyes, he is around17:24
kyleNI would like to gently suggest that Moblin needs to take an action to manage proper i18n implementations in all their code, to completion.17:25
loolrustyl: Usually there are proper releases with tarballs where we have these; po files are usually commited, I dont' think pot are17:25
davidmWe have a lot to cover and we are kind of stuck here without ToddBrand, can we assign ToddBrandt an action to look into this?17:25
rustyllool, that's what i thought... and a po file is a translation which we will not be doing17:26
agoliveiradavidm: Of course, he's not here to deny :P17:26
loolrustyl: But is there anything in place yet to just build templates?17:26
rustyllool, beyond the inttool stuff?  17:26
loolrustyl: ATM, you can't run intltool-update --pot; I had to hack intltool in quickly17:26
loolEven if the file isn't committed because it's "generated", the rules to build it must be checked in17:27
rustylok, you mean Makefile rules?17:27
loolYes, and configure.in checks etc.17:27
loolrustyl: For example, running intltoolize in autogen.sh, adding IT_PROG_INTLTOOL to configure.in, creating a po/ etc.17:28
rustylwhat would be nice is a very clear definition on what Ubuntu expects for a properly internationalized (but not localized) application17:28
kyleNrustyl: absolutely. that would help17:28
loolPerhaps we can defer to the GNOME definition since we're building on Hildon which builds on GMAE17:29
rustylif we can get that definition, then we can log a bug for each moblin project and just manage the bug database to fix all the projects17:29
rustylfor example... what magic do i need to do in my package so that launchpad is able to handle translations?17:30
loolAIUI, call intlool-update from po/ during the build17:30
loolThis requires a PO-based/gettext-based package17:30
loolBut I think this is a bit far reaching for the meeting17:30
loolrustyl: Would this help? http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool17:31
* rustyl looks at the page17:31
loolThere are many resources at http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject17:31
davidm[link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize17:31
MootBotLINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize 17:31
bspencer_"This page does not exist.."?17:31
davidm[link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize17:31
MootBotLINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize 17:31
bspencer_http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines    17:32
MootBotLINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines     17:32
loolYou need the rest + using gettext and intltool17:32
kyleNyes, these links have lots of info. but can it be boiled down for Moblin and others to the five or so things you need to do?17:32
lool[link] http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool17:32
MootBotLINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize using gettext and intltool 17:32
loolkyleN: Perhaps someone can volunteer to sum the executive steps17:33
MootBotLINK received:  http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject/DevGuidelines/Localize%20using%20gettext%20and%20intltool 17:34
loolI think it's easy enough for people writing modules to look how other modules in the GMAE stack (not the Hildon one) are doing it17:34
loolbspencer_: Thanks; I was too lazy to fix the spaces :)17:34
bspencer_lool, I'm less confused :)17:35
loolrustyl: So would this be enough resources to look into other GNOME modules and at the GNOME wiki to complete the i18n support in moblin-applets?17:35
ToddBrandtdavidm: I'm here, sorry17:35
loolToddBrandt: Cool; we were discussing what's missing from the moblin-applets source to complete i18n infrastructure17:36
ToddBrandtoh ok17:36
rustylwhat i worry about is if all the links describe a range of many many things that could be done,  but there is some subset that is "required" in order for this team to not be disapointed17:36
kyleNlool, I will sum the executive steps if you will review them before I post them17:36
davidmkyleN, excellent, lool this OK with you?17:37
loolkyleN: SOunds like a deal17:37
kyleNand perhaps assist me with your oceanic knowledge as I pull this together17:37
rustylBTW, we still have an issue with moblin-applets and the mobile-basic-flash17:37
loolrustyl, ToddBrandt: ok with you?17:38
kyleNlool, can we then meet soon, szy tomorrow, to discuss/kick this off?17:38
ToddBrandtlool: The gnome-control-center source (which mobli-applets is essentially a fork of) had complete internationalization support. I pulled some of it out but I can pull it back over again17:38
davidm[action] kyleN  will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting.17:38
MootBotACTION received:  kyleN  will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting. 17:38
ToddBrandtsounds good17:38
loolkyleN: Yes, but not too late as I'm leaving for FOSDEM in my afternoon; rather after the meeting would be bestr17:38
loolToddBrandt: That would be nice; please on your side continue i18nizing until we can actually import a pot into launchpad; is that possible?17:39
rustyllool, kyleN, ToddBrandt: don't forget... moblin-applets is executing inside the hildon-desktop17:39
rustyland hildon-desktop has it's own wacky way of doing translations, right?17:39
kyleNrustyl: I am not sure what the consequences are of that fact17:39
loolrustyl: Even if it does, we need the infrastructure to translate its strings; this will involve pot / po files17:40
kyleNhildon uses po files, but non-english message ids, which is weird. there may be other weirdnesses17:40
Mithrandirrustyl: that shouldn't matter, it only complicates translations.17:40
kyleNi wonder whether hildon itself should just be made fully gettext compliant17:40
ToddBrandtlool: yes, I'll bring it all back in will rearrange the info to align with the text from the very latest moblin-applets17:40
rustylok, so hildon-desktop is doing the right thing... no problem then17:40
davidmToddBrandt, how long do you think that will take?17:41
loolGood; davidm will [action] this and we can move on17:41
kyleNafterall, hildon is now in gnome and gnome is gettext17:41
ToddBrandtdavidm: if I make it top priority, I'll have it ready by end of day tomorrow17:41
davidmToddBrandt, so an action for next week is OK then?17:42
ToddBrandtdavidm: yes17:42
davidm[action] ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week.17:42
MootBotACTION received:  ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week. 17:42
davidmOK I think we can move on now.17:42
davidm[topic] Mithrandir and lool to determine what is the best solution for "the probability that there will be significant user interface string changes post freeze that will need to be translated"17:42
MootBotNew Topic:  Mithrandir and lool to determine what is the best solution for "the probability that there will be significant user interface string changes post freeze that will need to be translated" 17:42
Mithrandirlool: feel like explaining it all to people?17:43
loolI discussed this with Rosetta people and Tollef; most technical bits are clearer now, and if we really want to, we can setup a new Launchpad project to have our own translation imports and exports17:43
loolIt would involve a lot of manual work as we would need to upload source for each package, translate, and then upload the resulting translations17:43
loolI understand we would be able to upload one big translation pack with all our translated strings from our forked source packages17:44
loolWe can't easily get a similar setup for PPA uploads as for Ubuntu uploads17:44
loolIn general, it's best to continue using regular infrastructure until the string/ui freeze (we've almost reached it unfortunately)17:44
loolSo the best thing to do is to keep the number of string changes to an absolute minimum17:45
loolA very minimalistic solution which we could use instead is to ship translations in the packages themselves (as GNOME does) for the packages where we change strings17:45
loolThe first solution requires writing glue and doing many uploads17:45
loolI've sent detailed notes on this topic to Kyle; it depends a lot on the amount of changes we target17:46
kyleNmy guess is the minimilistic solution, but I wonder if for Ibex release we might fix this?17:46
loolIs any of the above unclear?17:46
loolkyleN: To "fix" it the best thing to do is to align with the Ubuntu release schedule17:46
davidmCan we post the  detailed notes on the ubuntu wiki?17:47
looldavidm: It's from an email exchange, but I can reformat it for the wiki17:47
kyleNlool, do you think standard lang packs are good for mobile, or are they too big?17:47
lool(I'll also check if anything is confidential, but I don't think so)17:47
davidmhopefully with the next go around we can do more planning at the UDS so we come closer to the Ibex release schedule.17:47
loolkyleN: We need lang packs for our seed I think17:48
davidmlool, thanks17:48
kyleNlool, so that's the kind of "fix" I was talking about17:48
loolkyleN: I didn't understand this is what we had to look up17:49
bfillerlool: so we don't currently have language packs specific for the mobile build?17:49
davidm[lool] to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.17:49
davidm[action] lool to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.17:49
MootBotACTION received:  lool to  reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki. 17:49
loolI don't think so17:49
kyleNlool, there are a lot of issues here, and lang pack size/mobile specific lang packs is one of them17:49
loolJust like there's no Xfce lang pack17:49
loolBut there's a KDE one17:50
bfillerlool: what kind of work is involved with making mobile specific packs?17:50
loolI don't know; I suspect there's a big script running on the tarballs generated from LP17:50
kyleNlangpack-o-matic script, I think17:51
davidmFolks we are runnig out of time here can we take this conversation to email?17:51
loolI would suspect we need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules17:51
bfillerlool: thanks, that makes sense17:51
loolDo I need to do research on this as well?17:51
lool(Which naturally eats my time not doing something else ;-)17:51
davidmlool, I think someone needs to do it.  does it have to be you?17:52
bfillerlool: would be appreciated. kyleN can you help out as well?17:52
kyleNI can help out17:52
loolI gained most knowledge about language packs recently, so I'm not deeply competent, but it could be me17:52
davidm[action] lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules17:52
MootBotACTION received:  lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules 17:52
loolLet's assign it to me + kyleN here as well then17:52
davidmOK next topic17:53
davidm[topic] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things.17:53
MootBotNew Topic:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. 17:53
davidmMithrandir, ?17:53
MithrandirI've failed to do that; Somebody said lool had a page of all the components and their statuses, but he wasn't around when I asked him so it fell through.17:54
Mithrandirlool: do you have that URL?17:54
loolhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0 ?17:54
bfillerMithrandir: I posted it to the email list. It's on the wiki:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.017:54
Mithrandirah, thanks.17:54
Mithrandirdavidm: please just give me the action item again and I'll get it done before the next meeting.17:55
davidmOK 17:55
davidm[action] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover)17:55
MootBotACTION received:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover) 17:55
davidm[topic] Mithrandir to nag about the import; we have it set up already but it's just in testing.17:55
MootBotNew Topic:  Mithrandir to nag about the import; we have it set up already but it's just in testing. 17:55
Mithrandirthat's set up17:56
Mithrandirhttps://code.edge.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/libmokoui2/trunk has an import now, so Frank should be able to work from that import using bzr.17:56
loolCan someone relay this to Frank?17:57
loolbspencer_: ^^^ ?17:57
rustylFYI: since I went ahead and uploaded the latest moko package from moblin to unblock my uploading of other moblin packages17:57
Mithrandirprobably good if StevenK does it, as he's been helping out already.17:57
bspencer_lool, es17:57
rustyl /since//17:57
loolbspencer_: Thanks17:57
davidmnew topic?17:58
bspencer_davidm, hold17:58
bspencer_is StevenK here?17:58
davidmNo, he is not currently17:58
agoliveirabspencer_: I doubt it :)17:58
bspencer_smagoun, you noted rusty's comment?17:58
rustyli have a new topic17:58
davidmrustyl, please add it to the wiki page17:58
smagounbspencer_: I'm 'smagoun', not 'StevenK' :)17:58
kyleNrustyl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/2008022117:59
bspencer_smagoun, yes, just noting since you were the one who rolled back mobile-media before17:59
bspencer_should work now, but we have our own moko in the PPA, not the one Mithrandir mentioned17:59
bspencer_ok, that's all.17:59
bspencer_davidm, unhold17:59
davidmOK, next topic 17:59
smagounbspencer_: ah, gotcha. As long as I can build a working image from the PPA I'm happy18:00
rustyli just want to ask about the status of fixing the dbus session while running a hardy ppa target in Xephyr18:00
davidm[topic] (lool) UDS Prague attendance (FOSSCamp in particular)18:00
MootBotNew Topic:  (lool) UDS Prague attendance (FOSSCamp in particular) 18:00
rustyldo i need to update the wiki for that?18:00
davidmrustyl, yes18:00
rustylok, what section?18:00
loolI was wondering who was planning to attend UDS (and FOSSCamp)18:00
bspencer_rustyl,  end of Current Items18:00
davidmat the bottom of Current Items18:01
davidmOn the Intel side do you have plans yet?18:01
loolAt the moment, I'm planning to only attend UDS; if folks on this chan or Intel folks in particular know they will come, could they please build a list?18:01
davidmOn our side Mobile team is attending UDS, Stevenk and I FOSSCamp18:02
davidmI don't know about the MBU team yet18:02
loolAs always, the more people can come, the more things we can discuss in a fast and constructive way, and the more things we can get done!  :-)18:02
bfillerlool: the MID team status is uncertain depending on customer commitments18:02
bfillerlool: we all want to attend18:02
loolbfiller: Excellent news :)18:02
davidmbfiller, it will make our list of things to do shorter if you don't come ;-)18:03
bfillerlool: excellent if we can come :)18:03
bspencer_Intel hasn't discussed this yet, or costs.18:03
bfillerdavidm: that is for sure!18:03
davidmOk next topic18:03
loolSo this was just to bring the subject up; in general Canonical people know how this works, if people at Intel know of someone outside of Intel who should come please tell us!18:03
loolbspencer_: (Would be nice to discuss on your side!)18:03
davidm[topic] (lool) Status reports on the public mailing list18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  (lool) Status reports on the public mailing list 18:03
bspencer_mawhalen, note:  discuss UDS attendance :)18:04
loolI think that's obvious from my status report18:04
loolI stopped sending status reports for a while (publicly) which is wrong (tm)18:04
davidmbspencer_, I've sent a request to Intel for some specific people to attend18:04
loolI think we should resume sending them18:04
loolIntel folks were better behaved than me here18:05
davidmlool, I agree we need to keep them on the public lists when possible.18:05
davidmOK next topic OK?18:05
loolI personally copy paste my internal activity reports into a public one filtered from confidential issues18:05
lool(ok for next topic)18:05
agoliveiralool: You're right. I missed that too.18:05
davidm[topic] (kyleN) Moblin theme inconsistency with Hildon Theme tools to be fixed by updating layout.txt and template.png? (Mentioned in Shane Bryan's Moblin Theme Guide)18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  (kyleN) Moblin theme inconsistency with Hildon Theme tools to be fixed by updating layout.txt and template.png? (Mentioned in Shane Bryan's Moblin Theme Guide) 18:05
GrueMasterQuestion on status reports:  Do we (Intel) want to put benchmark info on system steppings in the public forum?18:06
kyleNso we will need to make some 'themes". and Shane's good writeup points out the Intel has not updated their theme to supprot the theme tools18:06
loolGrueMaster: If you can, any info is good18:06
davidmGrueMaster, I think  not18:06
HappyCamp_laptopGrueMaster: very doubtful18:06
GrueMasterThat's what I thought.18:06
kyleNbspencer_: do you have anything to say to this point?18:06
davidmIntel Canonical Wiki I think is the place for those18:06
* lool notes18:07
bspencer_sabotage, ping18:07
GrueMasterI just noticed some of that in a recent email post.18:07
loolkyleN: Which writeup is this?18:07
bspencer_kyleN, yes, we need to make sure the tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools18:07
kyleNlool, mentioned in Topic18:07
bspencer_and sabotage (Shane Bryan) has this assignment18:07
loolbspencer_: Is it doable for next week?18:08
kyleNbspencer_: does he need an action?18:08
bspencer_kyleN, he needs to attend first :)18:08
bspencer_lool,  I don't know.   It would be a stretch18:08
kyleNthen do you need one, bspencer_ ? ;)18:08
bspencer_lool, we should bring it up with mawhalen and sabotage 18:08
bfillerbspencer_: related question is when will sabotage "release" his document to the public?18:08
loolbspencer_: Ok, let's action our two to get this scheduled18:09
mawhalenbspencer_: I'll follow up on that one18:09
loolSo action on mawhalen to plan the theme update?18:09
bspencer_bfiller, soon.  We have just to review again and legal-proof it.  Nothing extraordinary.  That can be done by next week :)18:09
davidm[action] mawhalen to followup on when theme  tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with  sabotage (Shane Bryan) 18:10
MootBotACTION received:  mawhalen to followup on when theme  tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with  sabotage (Shane Bryan)  18:10
bfillerbspencer_: thanks18:10
davidmnext topic18:10
sabotagesorry folks...on another call...18:10
bspencer_sabotage, the Q is 3 parts18:11
bspencer_1) doc18:11
bspencer_2) theme tools18:11
loolrustyl: What about we add some MIC code to properly do this as it starts a terminal with proper mounts?18:11
bspencer_3) theme from tools18:11
sabotageTheme guide has been reviewed by editor, I have been adding updates and proper attributions, and it will need at least one more tech ed review and a legal review before publishing18:11
sabotageno action yet on the tools18:11
rustyllool... are talking about the dbus session issue?18:11
davidmsabotage, do you have any timeframes for this18:12
loolrustyl: Sorry, I'm anticipating18:12
davidmrustyl, not yet18:12
bfillerkyleN: can you and sabotage offline the specific issues you are having with themes?18:12
sabotageactually, I was hoping for more feedback from kyleN bfiller and others I sent it to before we start changing the tools18:12
davidmrustyl, almost, it's the next topic18:12
kyleNbfiller: yes, but it's an intel issue to bring their images into theme compliance18:12
sabotagedavidm: timeframe for what?18:12
davidmitems bspencer_ outlined above 1 - 3?18:13
bfillersabotage: I think kyleN has some specifics on the doc. I have reviewed it only briefly (looks great..)18:13
bfillerkyleN: agreed18:13
kyleNsabotage: you know what I am referring to, correct?18:13
bspencer_davidm, mawhalen, sabotage  and I will need to review the schedule, per your previous action.18:13
sabotagekyleN: bfiller I agree it's an intel issue, but I want to ensure our path is in line with community norms/desires18:13
davidmOK then lets move on one last topic18:13
davidm[topic]  (rustyl) What is the status for finding a resolution for enabling a Hardy PPA target image to run inside Xephyr. This is the issue where the session dbus is not being started, causing massive breakage on many levels.18:14
MootBotNew Topic:   (rustyl) What is the status for finding a resolution for enabling a Hardy PPA target image to run inside Xephyr. This is the issue where the session dbus is not being started, causing massive breakage on many levels. 18:14
sabotagekyleN: no18:14
davidmrustyl, topic is up now.18:14
loolrustyl: What about we add some MIC code to properly do this as it starts a terminal with proper mounts?18:14
rustyli don't know how it's supposed to work18:14
loolAIUI, it's mounting filesystems and setting things up to enter and leave the chroot already18:14
bfillersabotage: me, you and kyleN should plan on talking next week18:14
rustylit worked with the old version of X18:14
loolIt could as well do an invoke-rc.d dbus start18:14
bfillerrustyl: I think the problem is related to running a Hardy image in a Gutsy chroot18:15
rustyldbus is starting18:15
HappyCamp_laptoplool: I thought our ume-xephry-start script did that18:15
sabotagebfiller: kyleN: sure, lets talk...Wed/Thur I'm OOP18:15
loolHappyCamp_laptop: Then I don't understanst the issue we're discussing; I thought it was to help with this18:15
kyleNoffline guys18:15
bfillerrustyl: have you or anyone else tried it on a Hardy box?18:15
HappyCamp_laptopnot me18:16
rustylno, but i don't see how that could be it... xephr is run from inside the chroot18:16
rustylall the code is execting inside a hardy chroot18:16
bfillerrustyl: not everything18:16
loolrustyl: Perhaps we should investigate in a bug report rather than in the meeting?18:17
rustylwhat do you think is escaping the chroot that could cause this?18:17
rustylare people seeing this 'just work' on their hardy systems?18:17
bfillerbfiller: possible a dbus conflict, or some security related issue as many things have changed btwn hardy and gutys18:17
loolrustyl: Perhaps dbus checks whether another dbus process is running or whether it's being started from within a chroot?18:17
loolrustyl: Yes, hardy under hardy works18:18
bfillerrustyl: I am seeing the same problem as you. Xephry does not work with hardy image running on gutsy18:18
rustyllool, ok, so some people are using Xephr18:18
rustyli thought everyone was broke, and nobody was saying anything18:18
agoliveirarustyl: nope, runs fine here (hardy/hardy)18:19
loolSo perhaps you could investigate together with a hardy and a gutsy box to compare?18:19
agoliveiraOr just use hardy? ;)18:19
bfillerrustyl: rephrase - many apps and control panels do not work correctly in Xephry, but it does launch:)18:19
rustylon my main developerment machine... not a chance18:19
bfillerrustyl: I agree. Lets file a bug and get this assigned to someone18:20
rustylbfiller, the real test would be open a terminal, and type "dbus-monitor --session"18:20
looldavidm: Any last minute topic?18:20
davidmNope this is the last topic18:21
* HappyCamp_laptop cheers!18:21
davidmso is this going to a bug report?18:21
davidmif so who is doing so?18:21
bspencer_davidm, bfiller wanted to do it.  He's not very busy these days18:21
bfillerbspencer_: I'll do it :)18:21
bfiller(file the bug that is)18:22
bfillerIs it a MIC bug?18:22
rustyli don't think so18:22
bspencer_I expected the next line to be :  ACTION bspencer to file a bug :)18:22
bspencer_but MIC or the ume-xephyr-start script may be able to remedy it if it is simple.18:22
rustylbut the resolution could result in a change to mic18:22
davidm[action]  bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems?18:22
MootBotACTION received:   bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems? 18:22
davidmThat describe it well enough?18:23
agoliveiraAn action if form of a question? :)18:23
bfillerdavidm: good enough, I know what you mean18:23
davidmOK then 18:23
davidmtime to end going once ................................................18:23
bspencer_agoliveira, 2s after meeting?18:24
agoliveirabspencer_: Sure.18:24
davidmending meeting going twice..........................................................................................................18:24
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:24.18:24
bspencer_agoliveira, I see you uploaded a galculator to hardy PPA.  Where is the source repository for that?  Is there one in bzr with the Hildon patches already?18:24
kyleNlool, you see my private hat with you on i18n?18:25
loolkyleN: I don't; are you registered?18:25
bspencer_and if I want to make small changes, should I upload them to debian/patches in that bzr repo, or just make changes directly to a hardy branch?18:25
agoliveirabspencer_: The source is aways the one in hardy. This one on PPA is quite old IIRC.18:25
kyleNhmmm, i believe I am my nick is... maybe it isnt18:25
kyleNcan you create a room then and invite me?18:26
loolkyleN: 19:25 -NickServ(NickServ@services.)-           Last Seen: 10 weeks 2 days (22h  38m 3s) ago18:26
bspencer_agoliveira, I'd like to know where we plan to keep the source repo so i can make my changes there and then gen the PPA source from there.18:26
loolkyleN: You need to identify on reconnects18:26
kyleNlool wow18:26
bspencer_we had it on moblin but took it off at the sprint18:26
bspencer_now it is homeless.18:26
kyleNI see18:26
loolkyleN: We can discuss non confidential issues here and confidential ones on our internal IRC18:26
agoliveirabspencer_: Ah, sorry. Now I remember. We had a period a few days ago where galculator won't build for lpia due some missing hildon dependencies so I uploaded that one to ppa.18:27
kyleNlool, hang on I want to talk about i18n...18:27
kyleNok, lool, I believe to i18n C code you do the following18:27
loolkyleN: Yes, I'm hanging on; but as the meeting slipped, we're getting close to my dinner18:27
kyleNinclude libintl.h18:27
agoliveirabspencer_: You can aways use the PPA and once done we can upload to the main repos.18:27
kyleNdefine macros for _( substitution18:27
kyleNmodify code to use _( for strings exposed in UI18:27
bspencer_agoliveira, I can replace yours with the one we have on moblin with our patches, but again the source repo is undefined18:27
kyleNthen to build18:28
kyleNyou need a po/ dir18:28
kyleNit has to contain POTFILES.IN18:28
agoliveirabspencer_: The source repo is aways hardy. We don't have 2.18:28
kyleNand Mavevars18:28
kyleNsomehow, the build has to call intltool-update -p18:28
agoliveirabspencer_: apt-get source galculator18:28
* bspencer_ tries to find it on launchpad...18:28
kyleNis that all for C?18:28
bspencer_agoliveira, but that has no HILDON changes for lpia, or does it?18:28
rustylagoliveira, that's not a source repository18:28
agoliveirabspencer_: Should have.18:29
loolkyleN: Usually, translators do it when they work on an updated po18:29
agoliveirarustyl: Because you don't have versioning?18:29
loolkyleN: Our packages also do it via CDBS magic for example18:29
kyleNlool, you mean call intltool-update -po?18:29
rustylagoliveira, at the sprint we agreed that a bzr repo would be created for each project we colaberate on18:29
loolkyleN: Concerning the #includes, it's a bit simplistic; you also need to setup intltool in your configure.in and intltoolize to add proper rules to the po/18:30
tremoluxbspencer_: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/galculator18:30
bspencer_agoliveira, something on:  https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/18:30
loolkyleN: grep intltool-update -r /usr/share/cdbs18:30
kyleNwhat is inltoolizwe, is that a script?18:30
agoliveirarustyl: I'm not telling you that use the bzr is wrong, just that the authoritative source is the one on hardy.18:30
tremoluxbspencer_: it does have the hildon changes, but not some important changes after that (osso stuff, other things)18:30
loolkyleN: This is included in GNOME packages18:31
agoliveirarustyl: You can use bzr and after you're done ask for upload.18:31
rustyli think tremolux has pointed us to what we are asking for18:31
agoliveirathe diff I mean18:31
bspencer_tremolux, ok.  18:31
loolkyleN: intltoolize is bundled with intltool to copy over distribution files for intltoolized packages18:31
bspencer_do I have write access to the hardy branch?  Who do I send my patches too?18:31
kyleNlool, ok, is that it then?18:31
loolkyleN: For example intltool-update.in, intltool-merge.in etc. are copied by intltoolize as well as po/Makefile.in.in18:31
kyleN(lool, they are calling me for another meeting, darnit, i hvae to go...)18:31
agoliveirabspencer_: Make the changes and open a bug on launchpad.18:32
loolkyleN: Well that's mostly it; perhaps you can try to create a hello world GNOME app which would have a ./configure, a main.c and po/ files18:32
bspencer_agoliveira, ok.  I have what I need.  I'll make patches against this source and send them to...you or tremolux 18:32
bspencer_and upload to the PPA in the meantime 18:32
loolkyleN: Below http://live.gnome.org/TranslationProject there's plenty of guides; "For maintainers and developers" is what you should focus on18:32
tremoluxbspencer_: awesome, thanks18:32
kyleNok. cheers lool.18:32
bspencer_tremolux, who are you? :)18:32
agoliveirabspencer_: We don't have more access than you so I'll have to open a bug the same way :)18:32
tremoluxbspencer_: hehe Gary Lasker18:33
bspencer_ah, Gary.  sorry.18:33
tremoluxbspencer_: :)18:33
bspencer_tremolux doesn't look like "Gary" :)18:33
bspencer_but then again Mithrandir doesn't resemble "lool" either18:33
agoliveirabspencer_: I sugessted SpongeBobsPet but he didn't like it :)18:33
tremoluxbspencer_:  [:) 18:33
loolkyleN: If something is unclear, ping me or send me an email18:34
loolkyleN: Also, one good thing to try is to build GNOME modules from SVN and from tarball18:34
Mithrandirbspencer_: I've been using Mithrandir as my IRC nick for about 12 years, it's hard to change. :-)18:34
loolkyleN: Take one small module, for example hmm zenity18:34
loolkyleN: zenity is a wrapper around gtk+ widgets for the shell18:34
tremoluxbspencer_, agoliveira I gotta run to an engineering meeting, thanks for the galculator18:34
loolkyleN: You can checkout the SVN, see what the "autogen" does (it calls intltoolize) how configure.in has intltool hooks etc.18:35
agoliveirabspencer_: Anyway, send me the debdiff against Hardy's galculator and I'll see to upload it.18:35
loolkyleN: Then you can try to create your own zenity tarball with make dist and/or look at the official tarballs; you should see the files shipped in releases18:35
bspencer_agoliveira, thx.18:36
loolkyleN: This should be all you need to get started; there isn't much, but it's best to try out the process from a maintainer and translator perspective to get the big picture :)18:36
agoliveirabspencer_: No problem.18:36
* lool dinner &18:37
bspencer_agoliveira, does the upstream galculator already have the concept of building for lpia and hildon?18:57
bspencer_have they made those changes to the configure.ac, or equivalent?18:57
agoliveirabspencer_: I don't knwo about upstream, sorry.18:58
agoliveirabspencer_: The source from hardy, does.18:58
bspencer_bfiller, what do you guys use for a soft keyboard?19:07
bspencer_are you using mobile-matchbox-keyboard?19:07
bfillerbspencer_: yes, just using the stuff you guys provide19:07
* bspencer_ checks PPa19:07
th89hey guys, i developed a new mobile application for windows mobile 6. u can check it out at http://thetechturf.com/?page_id=22420:12
th89its Google2GO!20:12
agoliveirath89: Nice but useless for us.20:24
th89agoliveira, yeah21:09
th89agoliveira, but still getting the word out....21:09
StevenKbspencer_: Hi, who can I grab to talk about Helix?22:02
bspencer_StevenK, probably rustyl  or the guy in PRC is halley -- starts work in about 3hrs.22:10
rustylStevenK, what's up?22:11
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