/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/02/22/#ubuntu+1.txt

=== Dana1 is now known as DanaG
toresbe	anyone else having problems with proprietary nVidia on Hardy?	00:01
nblracer	hey is hardy 5 out?	00:02
toresbe	It simply seems to not work	00:03
nblracer	?	00:03
toresbe	the X.org logs are just ...business as usual, then "couldn't init card" or something like that	00:03
cwillu	toresbe, I'm running it fine, didn't do anything special	00:04
cwillu	toresbe, upgrade or fresh install?	00:04
toresbe	cwillu: upgrade	00:06
toresbe	it simply goes	00:06
cwillu	how did you have the nvidia driver installed before?	00:06
toresbe	(EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device!	00:06
cwillu	just through the restricted manager, or did you have to do anything more?	00:06
toresbe	cwillu: restricted, I think.	00:06
cwillu	try dpkg-reconfigure'ing x, set it to vesa, and then run the restricted drivers manager again from inside x	00:07
toresbe	OK	00:07
toresbe	nope	00:09
toresbe	won't work	00:09
toresbe	(EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device!	00:09
toresbe	oh wait, found the problem	00:10
toresbe	I'm running an older kernel.	00:10
toresbe	but I'm doing that because the newer one won't boot :(	00:10
cwillu	what happens that it won't boot?	00:10
toresbe	Waiting for root FS...	00:10
* cwillu feels like elisa some days		00:11
toresbe	something to that effect. Won't go past that.	00:11
cwillu	toresbe, what does you fstab look like?	00:11
toresbe	Why do you say that you feel like elisa some days?	00:11
cwillu	:p	00:11
cwillu	pastebin your fstab and your /boot/grub/menu.lst	00:11
toresbe	an UUID in the fstab	00:11
cwillu	what kernel version are you running?	00:11
toresbe	2.6.22-14-generic	00:11
cwillu	ext3?	00:12
toresbe	yes	00:12
toresbe	brb, rebooting with fstab saying /dev/sda1	00:12
cwillu	okay, sounds like grub isn't giving the kernel an accurate idea of what partition it's supposed to use (fstab line doesn't actually affect that)	00:12
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
DanaG	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/190934	00:18
ubotu	Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete]	00:18
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
ax1s	hey .. is css broken in hardy?	00:27
ax1s	my dvd playback quits	00:28
ax1s	or certain dvds	00:28
toresbe	cwillu: got it debugged.	00:38
toresbe	cwillu: the right modules simply aren't loaded at boot time.	00:38
toresbe	cwillu: after a while, /scripts/local give up and drop me to an initramfs shell. When I modprobe sd_mod and sata_nv and ^D, the system boots.	00:38
cwillu	weird	00:39
cwillu	might want to report it on launchpad	00:39
toresbe	sigh	00:41
toresbe	:)	00:41
toresbe	thanks.	00:41
toresbe	Also, the fscking index thing is annoying, too.	00:42
toresbe	what would I be filing a bug against? The kernel image?	00:42
cwillu	toresbe, either that or grub I'd think; they'll change the affected packages if they need to	00:48
toresbe	cwillu: I'm submitting it against the kernel, since it's the kernel that's failing to load the module.	00:51
toresbe	Terrasqu1: o/	00:52
cwillu	toresbe, there's supposed to be some love going towards the fsck problem	00:52
cwillu	toresbe, btw, don't use the fsck-on-shutdown hack from ubuntuforums, it's got some nice root escalation holes in it	00:53
toresbe	cwillu: "the fsck problem"?	00:53
toresbe	cwillu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/194196	00:53
ubotu	Launchpad bug 194196 in linux "Fails to insert nVidia SATA disk modules on boot causing boot fail" [Undecided,New]	00:53
cwillu	thought you were talking about the occasional long delay in booting due to fsck	00:54
toresbe	oh, heh. No. I meant "fscking" as a slightly geekier way of saying "fucking".	00:54
toresbe	:)	00:55
cwillu	:p	00:55
toresbe	The blinking exclamaation point in the top is annoyingly distracting.	00:55
cwillu	might not be the best choice of euphemism on a linux support channel :p	00:55
toresbe	cwillu: where else would it be a good choice? :)	00:55
cwillu	it'd probably work on #bsd :p	00:57
cwillu	actually	00:57
cwillu	maybe on osx?	00:57
toresbe	ugrgh. That blinking thing is FREAKING ANNOYING.	01:00
* toresbe submits another bug. :)		01:00
cwillu	which blinking thing?	01:00
toresbe	the tracker applet.	01:00
cwillu	ah, that	01:00
toresbe	libdeskbar-tracker I think	01:00
toresbe	oh it was actually having problems, and blinking for a reason	01:05
toresbe	it barfed on seeing the file "xmp:-"	01:05
toresbe	in my $HOME	01:05
sweetsinse	whats up with alpha 5 why the link 404	01:07
toresbe	this is STRANGE.	01:08
sweetsinse	where is alpha 5 release	01:09
toresbe	file changes to /home/toresbe/xmp:- is pausing tracker	01:11
toresbe	File /home/toresbe/xmp:- has finished changing	01:11
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
* heret1c yawns		01:29
heret1c	sheesh - 7 hr siesta 8)	01:30
heret1c	drwillis> how goes?	01:31
Dr_willis	Hmm?	01:32
Dr_willis	I work 3rd shift.	01:32
heret1c	oh.	01:32
heret1c	no rest for the wicked, eh?	01:33
heret1c	not even the extremely wicked. 8)	01:33
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
heret1c	drwillis> assid runs ide drives with no problems. showed some rather impressive -Tt results.	01:34
* heret1c wondrs if it's down to the chipset, ir what. lspci\|grep ata		01:35
Dr_willis	Given what ive read about the various ide problems over the years - its often an issue with the mb's ide chipset.	01:36
heret1c	: nods	01:36
Dr_willis	fixing a lot of these issues is one of the reasons for the rework of ata stuff in the kernel.	01:36
heret1c	Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Controller (rev 02)	01:39
heret1c	bog standard, afaik.	01:39
toresbe	hehe, I found the problem.	01:40
toresbe	Hehe. This is a fun bug in Ubuntu tracker/imagemagick.	01:40
toresbe	(imagemagick/convert is an image processing utility, tracker is a file alteration monitor (like spotlight and whatever the vista knockoff is called))	01:40
toresbe	So - picture this... tracker is searching along, and encounters a graphics file. It wants to thumbnail it, so it passes it along to convert. Convert creates a temporary file. Tracker notices that a file has been created. It notices it's an image file, so it wants to thumbnail it. It calls convert.	01:40
Dr_willis	One of the many reasons i always disable those tracker/indexing services	01:41
Dr_willis	I dont seem to have an issue keeping my stuff organized. :)	01:41
sweetsinse	whats up with alpha 5 why the link 404	01:44
Dr_willis	perhaps its not done yet? its waiting to get uploaded.	01:45
nblracer	i herd it was held back until tomorrow	01:45
nblracer	i dont know why though	01:45
Dr_willis	means there will be 1000 updates tomorow? :)	01:46
heret1c	https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HardyHeron/Alpha5	01:47
paulr	bah	01:49
Dr_willis	egads.. wubi is going to be on the cd....	01:51
* Dr_willis hides		01:51
heret1c	they are a bit early with the advertising/late with the release.	01:52
DanaG	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/190934	01:54
ubotu	Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete]	01:54
* DanaG wants the non-loop-but-still-starts-from-windows installer, instlux.		01:54
Mark_Milliman	If we are on alpha 4 will we automatically see alpha 5 through upgrade-manager or do we have to run it with "-d?"	01:54
cwillu	Mark_Milliman, updates will bring you to alpha5 (the alphas are just particular package versions)	01:56
Mark_Milliman	Thanks cwillu, I have always stayed with the released versions. This is the first time I have jumped on the bleeding edge of Ubuntu releases.	01:57
Mark_Milliman	I saw that it would solve some of the problems I was having with Gutsy	01:58
Mark_Milliman	I never noticed until now that there is not an option in Nautilus to restore from Trash!!!	02:00
Dr_willis	Mark_Milliman, heh - i noticed yesterday that You have to Shift-Delete to delete somthing, not move it to trash.	02:01
Dr_willis	My Thumbdrive was all full.. and it was empty! :0	02:01
DanaG	Try deleting stuff from trash.... it replicates!	02:01
Dr_willis	i wonder if there will be some updates/fix's to that - annoyance.	02:01
Dr_willis	DanaG, :)	02:01
Mark_Milliman	Hopefully GVFS will fix all of that in Alpha 5	02:02
RAOF	DanaG: Re bug 190934. I contend that you're seeing a bug in compiz, since I find it trivial to reproduce this under compiz but can't reproduce under metacity at all.	02:02
ubotu	Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190934	02:02
DanaG	But even after I kill compiz, it's still just as broken.	02:03
RAOF	True.	02:04
DanaG	And nothing should be able to make xev get the terminate_server keycode.	02:04
RAOF	I'm also not sure you're seeing the same bug; killing X fixes our bug, but the original poster seems to need to do other stuff.	02:07
RAOF	Anyway, I'll file a bug against compiz, and suggest that it's a likely dup of that bug.	02:08
RAOF	Damn. I've broken Do by reproducing the bug :/	02:08
DanaG	Do?	02:09
RAOF	!info gnome-do	02:09
ubotu	gnome-do (source: gnome-do): Quickly perform actions on your desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.3.2.1-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 50 kB, installed size 216 kB	02:09
RAOF	Kinda like gnome-launch-box and deskbar, but somewhat more direct/cooler.	02:10
DanaG	What's the hotkey?	02:18
RAOF	DanaG: Super-space. Yes, it would be nice to make that more obvious.	02:25
DanaG	Aah, I have deskbar assigned to that, for now.	02:25
DanaG	Aah, changed it.	02:26
RAOF	DanaG: I hope you have got the gnome-do-plugins (and especially gnome-do-plugin-rhythmbox) package installed. Do is now my primary interface to Rhythmbox.	02:26
DanaG	I use Exaile.	02:26
DanaG	Media keys are broken in Exaile. Argh.	02:26
RAOF	And banshee, too. Gnome-settings-daemon has changed the	02:27
RAOF	API again :)	02:27
heret1c	ouch.	02:32
Nubbie	is hardy alpha 5 live yet?	02:33
heret1c	nope.	02:34
Nubbie	damn.	02:35
Nubbie	lol.	02:35
Nubbie	i had a chance to test pulse audio before, and i'm very glad ubuntu has decided to include it ENABLED by default.	02:37
Nubbie	it's been long over due, imo.	02:38
sweetsinse	yeah ive been waiting all day for that alpha 5	02:39
sweetsinse	i gpt excited when the wiki was onine	02:39
DanaG	They need to install libasound2-plugins by default, too.	02:39
sweetsinse	whats that	02:39
DanaG	!alpha5	02:39
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha5 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	02:39
DanaG	libasound2-plugins has the alsa-to-pulse wrapper.	02:40
Nubbie	!alpha	02:42
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	02:42
Nubbie	:\|	02:42
Nubbie	ubotu, you're fired.	02:42
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about you're fired. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	02:42
Nubbie	damn artificial intelligence. this machine doesn't know when to stop talking back.	02:42
heret1c	ubotu anything	02:43
ubotu	So, you wanted to lure me into saying I don't know anything about anything? Yeah, that would be funny, of course. Now leave me alone.	02:43
underwatercow	anyone hear if Alpha 5 is on schedule?	02:43
heret1c	8)	02:43
Mark_Milliman	sounds like it is a little late	02:44
Mark_Milliman	the links to the ISO images are 404	02:44
underwatercow	Mark_Milliman: So is it looking like tomorrow then? :-p	02:44
Nubbie	there's still more than 5 hours left in this day in North America. it isn't late yet.	02:44
=== keffie_jayx is now known as effie_jayx
underwatercow	Nubbie: Hello again, lol... and I know... I'm just impatient... when they say the 21st... I want it at midnight. ;-D	02:45
Nubbie	don't we all. but then it would be a day early on the other side of the globe now wouldn't it :)	02:45
underwatercow	Nubbie: Who cares about them?	02:45
underwatercow	;-D	02:45
underwatercow	anyone know what time the debates are on?	02:47
underwatercow	:-D	02:47
Nubbie	ubuntu > politics.	02:48
underwatercow	lol	02:48
sweetsinse	yeah i hope i can start the DL for alpha 5 before i go to bed at least	02:57
Nubbie	i'm going to seed it all night.	02:57
Nubbie	spread that ubuntu love.	02:57
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
nblracer	:P	02:59
Nubbie	spread it all over.	03:00
Nubbie	:\|	03:00
nblracer	im new to alpha for ubuntu, are updates pushed out for pre-rlease?	03:01
nblracer	or do they need to be manualy installed?	03:01
Nubbie	nblracer: updates are handled through official repositories.	03:02
Nubbie	nblracer: official hardy (ALPHA!!!) repositories.	03:03
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Nubbie	mark shuttleworth should go to space again.	03:07
underwatercow	we still need to get that number 1 bug fixed Nubbie...	03:08
underwatercow	:-D	03:08
underwatercow	how do you check bugs anyway?	03:10
underwatercow	ubotu 1	03:10
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about 1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	03:10
underwatercow	ubotu bug 1	03:10
ubotu	Launchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1	03:10
ubotu	For discussion and help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubotu equivalents	03:10
underwatercow	excellent	03:10
Nubbie	:l	03:12
Nubbie	i think it's a good thing microsoft has a massive market share.	03:12
Nubbie	and here's why.	03:12
Nubbie	forces more innovation from the unix side.	03:12
DanaG	One good thing about Vista: it forces manufacturers to implement better ACPI controllers.	03:13
Nubbie	another good thing about vista: the market is now open for solid state disks.	03:13
Nubbie	what the hell do they call that thing...	03:13
sweetsinse	solid state is interesting	03:14
sweetsinse	ive been watching that for a few years now.. i remeber reading about a 'cube' that could hold 100's of gigs haha	03:14
Nubbie	sweetsinse: i saw a person at school with one of those eeepcs.. made me consider a solid state disk.	03:14
sweetsinse	same with macbook air	03:14
Nubbie	macbook air will be a paperweight.	03:14
Nubbie	i can see it now... cracked screens... bent hinges... overheating...	03:15
Nubbie	that and the battery is now screwed to the motherboard, the hard drive is buried, afaik there is no way to upgrade memory...	03:16
sweetsinse	still	03:17
sweetsinse	...sw33t	03:17
Nubbie	nah.	03:17
Nubbie	i considered a macbook, mainly for the opportunity to triple boot... but i realized i'd just be running linux 100% of the time anyways.	03:18
Nubbie	and for the money, there is far better hardware on which to run linux.	03:18
DanaG	If I wanted something light, I'd get an HP tablet, or something.	03:19
Nubbie	i don't understand how 4lbs is "heavy"	03:19
Nubbie	get a REGULAR laptop.	03:19
Nubbie	especially if you just want to run linux.	03:20
DanaG	My current notebook is 7.5 pounds.	03:20
DanaG	The next one I'm considering is 5.9.	03:20
Nubbie	if you actually have a vested requirement of OSX, then maybe it's viable. even then, why not get a regular macbook.	03:20
sweetsinse	i dont need osx, i dont even know how to get linux on the damn thing since it has no traditional bios.. i just thought the air was nice, and i didnt know of another solid state pc	03:21
DanaG	Other companies offer SSDs, too..	03:22
Nubbie	you can put a solid state disk in ANY computer.	03:22
Nubbie	just order a computer sans hard drive and install it yourself.	03:22
sweetsinse	interesting what the max capacity right now	03:22
cwillu	sweetsinse, eeepc is solid state	03:23
Nubbie	the macbook air isn't even solid state.	03:24
Nubbie	it uses a 1.8" hard drive.	03:24
RAOF	The solid state one is :)	03:24
Nubbie	the same one they put in the ipod.	03:24
Nubbie	oh i didn't realize they had a solid state option...	03:24
* Nubbie investigates		03:24
sweetsinse	hmm	03:25
sweetsinse	rally	03:25
uniscript	it costs the earth though, $1k for the drive IIRC	03:25
RAOF	Nubbie: I believe it's a USD1000 option, bug you also gain some CPU speed, too.	03:25
sweetsinse	dman	03:25
sweetsinse	damn	03:25
sweetsinse	whats the capacity on the 1000	03:25
Nubbie	wow. that's actually not bad for 32gb SSD	03:27
Nubbie	64gb****	03:27
Nubbie	:O	03:27
toresbe	it's a shitty, overpriced laptop	03:29
Nubbie	toresbe: correct.	03:29
Nubbie	toresbe: at the very least, it will bring down the production costs of SSD.	03:29
RAOF	toresbe: This of course depends on what you want to do with it :)	03:29
toresbe	RAOF: no, it doesn't... there are no redeeming features	03:31
toresbe	it's the standard apple "oh my god another mediocre product from apple" hype	03:31
uniscript	but pretty	03:31
RAOF	toresbe: It's extremely light, and extremely thin.	03:31
toresbe	RAOF: like a lot of cheaper better and higher-quality laptops	03:31
RAOF	toresbe: It's entirely possible that these aren't useful features for you (and they're not really for me), but they're certainly features.	03:32
toresbe	(which, OMG, have Ethernet ports! ETHERNET PORTS!)	03:32
RAOF	toresbe: Name two :)	03:32
Nubbie	lol.	03:32
uniscript	pretty, MacOS	03:32
Nubbie	RAOF: eeepc.	03:32
toresbe	RAOF: IBM X61, Asus Eee PC.	03:32
Nubbie	uniscript: what's so great about OSX?	03:32
uniscript	did I say it was great?	03:33
RAOF	Nubbie: Isn't the eepc really extremely small & also quite low powered. And has 4GB of storage?	03:33
Nubbie	uniscript: the macbook has OSX... so what's the point of the air?	03:33
uniscript	you asked for two features. I know a number of mac fans	03:33
DanaG	I've installed OS X on MY PC, and I still use Linux as my primary OS.	03:33
Nubbie	RAOF: that 4gb is upgradable. and about $1400 cheaper.	03:34
* DanaG will never buy a laptop without Gigabit Ethernet.		03:34
uniscript	OK it's pretty and it's light and it runs Mac OSX, and the feature is in the and function	03:34
RAOF	Nubbie: For about $1400 less computer, apparently :)	03:34
Nubbie	uniscript: if i WERE to buy a mac, i wouldn't be able to find many excuses to buy an air over a regular macbook.	03:34
wastrel	i installed chandler on my ubuntu hardy	03:34
uniscript	ah but you are an engineer	03:34
uniscript	the air isn't aimed at you and your interest in functionality	03:35
Nubbie	uniscript: i am a student.	03:35
Nubbie	uniscript: even as a student i couldn't justify it.	03:35
uniscript	no, but an executive might	03:35
uniscript	I'm not here to defend the thing. All I know is that Apple are not stupid and there must be a market for the thing	03:36
uniscript	Personally I wouldn't touch it either	03:36
Nubbie	uniscript: what they	03:36
RAOF	uniscript: Indeed. It doesn't do what _I_ want in a laptop, but I'm pretty sure that other people have different wants/needs.	03:36
Nubbie	uniscript: what they've done IS really cool and all, it just isn't targeted at ANY audience other than those looking for a "pretty" computer.	03:36
uniscript	we agree	03:37
Nubbie	dope.	03:37
Nubbie	now lets wait for hardy alpha 5.	03:37
DanaG	I wouldn't use the Air if you PAID me to use it.... or maybe, I'd take it, sell it, and use the money to buy something else.	03:37
Nubbie	i use it for sure if i didn't have to pay for it lol.	03:37
* DanaG points to existing rants about ethernet and USB and firewire, or lack thereof.		03:38
DanaG	A pointer to a rant is less annoying than the rant itself.	03:38
Nubbie	firewire is pointless. for the very small percentage of people who actually use it i think they should just offer an exprescard adapter for it.	03:39
DanaG	No expresscard slot.	03:39
Nubbie	lawl.	03:39
DanaG	Firewire does have one point: firewire CD drive. Firewire hard drive.	03:39
DanaG	Firewire network, since they don't have GbE.	03:39
Nubbie	DanaG: eSATA > firewire.	03:39
Nubbie	oh i forgot macs can network over firewire and usb and what not.	03:40
uniscript	I know this question is supposed to be out of bounds, but I'm wondering when to upgrade to hardy on my one machine. I'm not afraid to fix stuff	03:40
uniscript	dell d620 laptop	03:40
Nubbie	uniscript: run the alpha livecd.	03:40
Nubbie	:\|	03:40
uniscript	just that I'm going to be really busy around release date	03:41
uniscript	nubbie: good point, duh	03:41
Nubbie	if stuff is broken, beyond your knowledge of how to fix it, don't use it, and report the bugs.	03:41
uniscript	(that was duh towards me not you btw)	03:41
DanaG	No eSATA, either!	03:42
DanaG	So it's a moot point.	03:42
Nubbie	i realize that uniscript lol.	03:42
Nubbie	DanaG: i'm talking about computers in general but yes, i see the use of firewire on macs with no ethernet.	03:42
sweetsinse	RAWR i want hardy 5	03:42
DanaG	They could even use the 4-pin, if they don't want the bigger 6-pin.	03:43
* Nubbie awaits hardy alpha 5 over a bowl of icecream		03:44
DanaG	Two cool features in the notebook I'm considering next time:	03:44
DanaG	A. BIOS option for "Fan always on when on AC Power" -- different people like different ways.	03:45
DanaG	B. BIOS option for 'swap FN and Ctrl' -- how sweet is that? It's awesome.	03:45
sweetsinse	i want a custom bios that broadcasts its location when its stolen	03:45
Nubbie	lol that would be cool.	03:45
sweetsinse	bios driven not os	03:45
Nubbie	that would be sick. no way to thwart that.	03:46
DanaG	CompuJack has some embedded thingy, but I wouldn't believe it'd work.	03:46
sweetsinse	yeah	03:46
DanaG	Oh, and it has both touchpad and pointy-stick, each with three physical buttons.	03:46
sweetsinse	i have a fingerprint reader on my lappy	03:46
uniscript	could linux bios do that for you?	03:46
sweetsinse	i can log in with it	03:46
=== bmk789_ is now known as bmk789
uniscript	so fingerprint readers work ok in ubuntu?	03:47
Nubbie	3 buttons is dumb.	03:47
Nubbie	it's not hard to press both at the same time.	03:47
sweetsinse	it was kinda a bitch to get w3rking	03:47
sweetsinse	using think_finger	03:47
sweetsinse	but its in offical repos now i think	03:47
sweetsinse	this was back on feisty, i havent done it in gutsy	03:47
Nubbie	uniscript: i believe the fingerprint readers are recognized as video devices via v4l.	03:47
wastrel	i like 3 button	03:48
sweetsinse	yeah the take an image, mine is on usb bus	03:48
sweetsinse	they take*	03:48
DanaG	Can somebody post an image of what it captures?	03:48
Nubbie	so we can all agree that 1 button touch pads are retarded (or mentally deficient for our politically correct audience)	03:48
uniscript	even MacOS needs cmd+click	03:49
wastrel	somewhat mitigated by the multitouch thing nowadays	03:49
wastrel	two-finger tap	03:49
DanaG	But can't do three-finger tap in OS X.	03:49
Nubbie	yeah... but DAMN the patent mess surrounding it.	03:49
DanaG	Here's how I have my touchpad in Linux: 1 == nothing, 2 == middle, 3 == right.	03:49
DanaG	Can't do that in OS X or in the Windows synaptics drivers.	03:50
DanaG	Oddly, the "swipe three fingers to go back a page" has existed in the Synaptics Windows drivers for years --- but, it's always been hidden.	03:50
wastrel	i'm not fond of multitouch since i don't use touchpad much anyway	03:52
wastrel	but it's nice when i'm stuck on an apple laptop	03:52
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
DanaG	I prefer touchpad over mouse, actually -- especially under Linux.	03:57
Nubbie	DanaG: you obviously don't work with graphics then lol.	03:59
Nubbie	as a photographer i couldn't survive without a mouse.	03:59
DanaG	I don't work with graphics. The mouse I have is an MX700, and I find that using it (especially when it's cold) can lead to an "I'd better stop now or I'm going to get RSI" pain in my hand.	04:01
cwillu	Nubbie, you're obviously new on the whole digital photography thing, or you'd be using a trackball :p	04:02
wastrel	i use trackpoint	04:03
toresbe	I use a Teletype... idiots!	04:03
DanaG	I use MouseKeys...... not.	04:03
Nubbie	rofl	04:04
Nubbie	i want retina trackers. how sick would that be?	04:04
sweetsinse	haha no doubt man	04:04
sweetsinse	i saw a wii remote programed to a guys comp	04:04
sweetsinse	that was cool	04:05
Nubbie	i also saw that.	04:05
Nubbie	the wiimote is just a bluetooth device correct? and it uses the infrared points to calculate it's position in space.	04:05
sweetsinse	i mean not quite retinas but hey a step in the right dircetion. ive always believe in nintendo, haha from the beginning	04:05
sweetsinse	it uses the screen i think too like duckhunt just more precise	04:06
Nubbie	i must say i sold my gamecube for an xbox.	04:06
Nubbie	and i don't regret it.	04:06
sweetsinse	hell no	04:06
sweetsinse	ive modded like 150+ xboxes in meh day	04:06
Nubbie	sweetsinse: yeah that's what i did.	04:06
sweetsinse	haha i use to make ppl pay me	04:06
sweetsinse	why not	04:06
Nubbie	sweetsinse: XBMC is one incredible app. i'm surprised they didn't land a contract with microsoft for their efforts.	04:06
sweetsinse	i know	04:07
* Nubbie goes to serve up some ice cream.		04:07
sweetsinse	microsoft did talk to the team that made the 360 skin for xbmc, they just wanted the little 360 rotator thingy removed, other than that they said keep up the good w3rk	04:07
DanaG	How about un-drm'ing the xbox?	04:08
DanaG	Or letting people build an OS for the 360?	04:08
DanaG	Nope, too open.	04:08
Nubbie	DanaG: the original xbox has no elements of anything resembling a DRM scheme.	04:08
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Nubbie	DanaG: and there is an amazing linux community for the xbox too.	04:09
DanaG	oh, well, why do you need a modchip for xbmc?	04:09
DanaG	Or do you _not_ need one?	04:09
Nubbie	DanaG: you do NOT.	04:10
Nubbie	DanaG: it's just easiest if you do have one.	04:10
Nubbie	you can mod your xbox without even opening the case.	04:11
Nubbie	it's called soft modding, it's less technical, but as a result it's more of a hassle.	04:11
sweetsinse	yeah	04:14
sweetsinse	but there are all inclusive setups	04:14
* DanaG doesn't own one, anyway.		04:14
sweetsinse	i use a savegame from krayzie i think that sets up the softmod, backs up the C, created a shadow C, created shadow EEPROM, and installs evox	04:15
sweetsinse	makes it impossiblefor ppl to mess up their box	04:16
DanaG	Odd... compiz, or perhaps libwnck, is b0rked.	04:17
DanaG	It has 4 workspaces instead of one 4-sided workspace.... despite the fact that compiz-fusion is set to the latter.	04:18
DanaG	I have to manually go reset the number of workspaces to 2 and then back to 1 to fix it.	04:20
DanaG	Oh, and WTF? You can't change the number of workspaces from the pager applet.	04:21
sweetsinse	what is libwnck for	04:27
sweetsinse	ugh i just keep checking to see if alpha is out yet	04:27
DanaG	!info libwnck	04:31
ubotu	Package libwnck does not exist in hardy	04:31
DanaG	!info libwnck0	04:31
ubotu	Package libwnck0 does not exist in hardy	04:31
DanaG	!info libwnck-dev	04:31
ubotu	libwnck-dev (source: libwnck): Window Navigator Construction Kit - development files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.21.91-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 210 kB, installed size 1196 kB	04:31
DanaG	!info libwnck	04:31
sweetsinse	ahem	04:37
DanaG	Here's something odd about the new wallpaper: each color is actually darker than it looks. Try guessing the color (subjective, not RGB) of a section, and then using a color picker on it.	04:42
wastrel	hrm ff3 is b0rky	04:44
sweetsinse	reya276 dpkg configure is not suppoer to w3rk anymore on xorg	04:45
sweetsinse	they removed it	04:45
sweetsinse	and the serverlayout section	04:46
reya276	ok how can I fix my resolution	04:46
sweetsinse	what is the output of: xrandr : in therminalk	04:46
reya276	default connected 800x600+0+0 0mm x 0mm	04:47
sweetsinse	there are no resolution options?	04:47
reya276	no none, not even to select a different graphics card	04:48
reya276	well yes there is 640x480	04:48
sweetsinse	wha graphics card do you have	04:49
DanaG	Well, at least it'll stop people from recommending dpkg-reconfiguring Xorg as the universal solution to so many Xorg problems.	04:49
sweetsinse	yeah	04:50
reya276	it's an old ATI m64	04:50
sweetsinse	ugh nasty ati huh	04:50
reya276	well no the restricted drivers kicked in just fine	04:50
sweetsinse	the resticed driver manager doesnt w3rk i suppose	04:50
sweetsinse	so it says active?	04:51
sweetsinse	or enabled	04:51
RAOF	I didn't think fglrx still supported cards that old.	04:51
* DanaG has the Tetris title theme as his phone ring.		04:53
reya276	sweetsinse: oh actually the restricted drivers are only on for my wireless card not the graphics card, maybe this is the issue, I need the drivers	04:53
* DanaG wonders how many of the people here have been to Cal Poly, SLO.		04:53
Nubbie	cal poly....	04:56
Nubbie	what....	04:56
DanaG	!google	04:57
ubotu	Google is a very popular search engine: http://www.google.com - Google also has a Linux-specific search engine: http://google.com/linux	04:57
DanaG	!google cal poly	04:57
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about google cal poly - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	04:57
DanaG	dang, no google script.	04:57
sweetsinse	reya276 i know ati needs restricted	05:00
Nubbie	sweetsinse: that's not necessarily true. not all ati cards require restricted drivers.	05:02
sweetsinse	ok then	05:03
sweetsinse	haha	05:03
sweetsinse	everyone ive done needed it :)	05:03
* DanaG hopes fglrx or radeonhd (I don't care which) is good enough by summer for /me to jump ship from nvidia.		05:03
sweetsinse	i b back	05:03
DanaG	m64?	05:03
DanaG	mach 64?	05:03
DanaG	Radeon? Rage?	05:03
reya276	sweetsinse: yeah, I'm downloading the xorg-fglrx drivers now, hopefully this will fix the issue	05:03
reya276	radeon	05:04
cooldevices	DanaG lol do you really beleive they implement full 3d support from scratch by summer in radeonhd?	05:04
DanaG	No, but perhaps fglrx will have improved by then.	05:04
DanaG	I've never heard of a "Radeon M64" -- or is it a Mobility, and really a 7000 or 7500 or something?	05:05
Nubbie	cooldevices: AMD is running that ship now, they may force open source drivers.	05:05
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
cooldevices	DanaG: whats wrong with nvidia?	05:05
cooldevices	no open source?	05:06
Nubbie	intel graphics are superior to both ati and nvidia in terms of open source drivers.	05:06
DanaG	Freezing, lockups, screen blinking, no open source at all, and Windows drivers often suck.	05:06
cooldevices	Nubbie: too bad regnum online not work with intel :/	05:06
Nubbie	the only restricted driver i have enabled is for wireless. and even then, 99.9% of that code is open source.	05:07
cooldevices	DanaG: which videocard?	05:07
DanaG	GeForce Go 7600 (128MB).	05:08
reya276	is there anyway to reconfigure my display drivers	05:08
shadowblade	Can someone help me revert to Gusty? I'm having way too many problems with hardy heron alpha and I'd like to avoid wiping and starting over.	05:09
DanaG	reya276: one thing useful: man radeon	05:10
DanaG	Also look in the xorg log for errors about EDID and/or DDC, and such.	05:10
shadowblade	anyone?	05:12
reya276	DanaG: this is the card I have Radeon IGP 330M/340M/350M	05:12
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
cooldevices	end users don't care about open source, they not going to modify source. so it is more like faith.	05:14
cooldevices	nvidia driver work ok for me	05:14
DigitalNinja	Is there a release date for hardy?	05:14
cadefy	april	05:14
uniscript	24th iirc	05:15
DigitalNinja	sorry heron	05:15
DigitalNinja	April 24	05:15
DigitalNinja	Is there a website with the dates?	05:15
cooldevices	drivers are free anyway, even if they are proprietary	05:16
Nubbie	DigitalNinja: http://ubuntu.com/testing	05:16
shadowblade	anyone?	05:16
Nubbie	cooldevices: yeah, but you don't know what's going on behind the scenes. and if something goes wrong, nobody is able to fix it.	05:16
Nubbie	shadowblade: why did you upgrade to an alpha pre-release?	05:17
DanaG	It's possible to downgrade using apt pinning, but it's risky, and I don't remember offhand how to do it.	05:17
cooldevices	Nubbie: nobody is going to fix open source, if developers dont want it	05:17
Nubbie	cooldevices: if there's a security problem with a closed source program, how do you go about fixing it?	05:18
cooldevices	Nubbie: why me? nvidia has security problem once and fixed it itslef	05:19
shadowblade	Nubbie: I was having a problem with an application and I got from a google search that it worked ok with hardy, so I tired it on another machine and it didn't work, nevermind the application	05:19
cooldevices	itself	05:19
DigitalNinja	Nubbie: Thanks!	05:19
Nubbie	cooldevices: and if nvidia had budget problems and cut back support for their linux bug fixes...	05:20
cooldevices	Nubbie: are linux developers rich and have no budget problems? linux depend on donating	05:21
RAOF	cooldevices: The FSF is founded on "man, I wish I could fix this crap software".	05:22
Nubbie	cooldevices: no, if something's broke and somebody has an interest and the ability to fix something, they will.	05:22
RAOF	cooldevices: While proprietary drivers don't have to be worse quality than open-source drivers, you can't fix them.	05:23
Nubbie	i'd go out on a limb to say that 85% of all linux developers are unpaid.	05:23
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
cooldevices	RAOF: i like millions of potential linux user can't fix open source either, cuz i'm not programmer	05:23
cooldevices	*users	05:24
RAOF	cooldevices: But, similarly, you can't ask Ubuntu to fix it.	05:24
cooldevices	i can ask nvidia to fix it	05:24
RAOF	And there are also at least tens of thousands, if not millions, of linux users who can fix drivers.	05:24
RAOF	cooldevices: And if your problem isn't a priority, then you're left without recourse.	05:25
Nubbie	cooldevices: nvidia already has your money. linux devs fix things to keep users.	05:25
RAOF	Also, nvidia's bug tracker isn't.	05:25
shadowblade	So can anyone help me?	05:25
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
cooldevices	well i will choose another videocard which work, this is how business works	05:26
Nubbie	shadowblade: looks like you installed too early.	05:26
Amaranth	cooldevices: Why do they care? You aren't a business user	05:26
Nubbie	you were warned... many times, that by installing an ALPHA release, you were taking a risk.	05:27
Amaranth	cooldevices: They make Linux drivers for workstation graphics people, the desktop and laptop stuff is just so they get hype and Dell will ship their stuff in Ubuntu laptops	05:27
shadowblade	So is there a way to revert to my old install? It seems like I could just put in my Gusty disc and "update" like I did downloading the hardy files	05:27
Amaranth	shadowblade: Downgrades are not supported and likely to break	05:27
Nubbie	cooldevices: so every time something breaks, you're content in just buying a new one.	05:27
RAOF	shadowblade: There's no way of reverting to gutsy without possibly breaking your system more. It's a reinstall.	05:27
shadowblade	Ok, thanks	05:28
Amaranth	shadowblade: No one ever codes in a downgrade migration path so if something got migrated to a new setup on upgrade you're going to lose it on downgrade	05:28
Nubbie	shadowblade: better luck next time. stick to final releases.	05:28
Nubbie	shadowblade: i hate to sound brutal, but if you try to slog through the bugs, your system will correct itself....	05:28
Nubbie	bleagg..	05:28
Amaranth	cooldevices: For example, there are problems with nvidia and compiz that are very long lived and well known. They'll fix one (or make an attempt, anyway) only every so often when people start to get really upset and bad mouth them a lot.	05:29
Nubbie	i'd like to see ubuntu employ an automatic system to backup a previous release before upgrading.	05:29
cooldevices	RAOF: millions of linux "programmers" who know how to fix drivers... and no working open source video driver?.. hmmm	05:29
Nubbie	should save many newb's asses.	05:29
Amaranth	cooldevices: Actually we have an open source nvidia driver. For 2D it is even faster than nvidia's driver for some things	05:30
Amaranth	3D work is still in progress though	05:30
Nubbie	cooldevices: that's not the linux developers problems. the chip manufacturers won't release the SPECS on their hardware.	05:30
cooldevices	Amaranth: i have long lived bugs with ubuntu since 7.04 which was not fixed yet	05:30
Amaranth	cooldevices: But you didn't pay us ;)	05:30
RAOF	cooldevices: Also, _fixing_ a problem in a driver is much easier than writing one from scratch with no idea about how the hardware works.	05:30
DanaG	blink	05:30
DanaG	there's that bug. I hate that one.	05:31
DanaG	blink	05:31
Nubbie	cooldevices: all the work on the drivers you use is thanks to the hard work many reverse engineers have accomplished.	05:31
Amaranth	cooldevices: And you have the ability to fix your problems if you put in the effort	05:31
AnswerGuy	I'm trying remaster a hardy LiveCD and change the default wallpaper --- and I can't seem to get it working.	05:31
Amaranth	cooldevices: I could fix the nvidia/compiz problems if they would let me	05:31
RAOF	DanaG: Wouldn't it be nice if nvidia fixed that :)	05:31
Nubbie	AnswerGuy: it shouldn't be hard to locate the wallpaper file and to replace it with another file with an equal name...	05:31
AnswerGuy	If I overwrite /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final.png with my new graphic it works	05:32
DanaG	I actually haven't run into that one in a while.	05:32
AnswerGuy	But how can I find where that is configured (so I can pick the name)	05:32
Amaranth	AnswerGuy: Right, make a package that diverts that file and put your own copy in	05:32
Amaranth	This is how UbuntuStudio does it	05:32
Amaranth	Their artwork packages just move aside the Ubuntu files and put their own in because changing the configuration is too much work	05:33
AnswerGuy	It over-writes the file named warty-final.png?	05:33
Amaranth	It diverts it	05:33
TrustNoOne	where to obtain latest official beta of hardy?	05:33
Amaranth	basically a rename that dpkg can keep track of	05:33
AnswerGuy	That seems gravely inelegant.	05:33
Nubbie	TrustNoOne: Hardy is still ALPHA software.	05:33
AnswerGuy	Nice that dpkg keeps track of it; but yuck	05:33
Amaranth	AnswerGuy: Not really, it's a pretty clean, simple, and robust solution	05:33
Nubbie	TrustNoOne: do NOT install it on machines you need to rely on.	05:33
Amaranth	TrustNoOne: hardy is still alpha, no beta	05:34
TrustNoOne	Nubbie, i know its still alpha	05:34
Nubbie	TrustNoOne: that said... http://ubuntu.com/testing if it breaks, don't come complaining.	05:34
Amaranth	TrustNoOne: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing	05:34
cooldevices	Nubbie: isnt reverse enineering illegal?	05:34
Nubbie	TrustNoOne: there's your warning.	05:34
Amaranth	But alpha 5 will be out in a couple days	05:34
Nubbie	cooldevices: no.	05:34
AnswerGuy	Well, if I'm understanding it correctly the name warty-final.png is embedded somewhere in a binary ... that's ugly.	05:34
Nubbie	cooldevices: reverse engineering is absolutely legal.	05:34
TrustNoOne	reverse engineering is only illegal if you get caught ;)	05:34
RAOF	cooldevices: Depends on what you mean by "reverse engineering", and where you do it.	05:34
Amaranth	AnswerGuy: No, somewhere in gconf	05:34
AnswerGuy	It should at least be named something like: default-background.png	05:34
Nubbie	cooldevices: so long as all code as a result is of original content.	05:34
RAOF	cooldevices: For example, in Europe, it's pretty much fair game whatever you want to do (IIRC).	05:35
Amaranth	AnswerGuy: Well, the idea was hoary would have hoary-final.png, then breezy would have breezy-final.png, etc	05:35
Nubbie	cooldevices: the only instance of reverse engineering being illegal is if you try to circumvent encryption schemes or DRM. and even then, it's only illegal in the US and a handful of other states.	05:35
RAOF	cooldevices: However, in the USA you're not allowed to reverse engineer binaries. You're still welcome to do other reverse engineering.	05:35
Kalamansi	before i can connect internet. but after i installed skype, i cannot connect to the internet...	05:35
AnswerGuy	Yes, I guessed that.	05:35
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
Amaranth	AnswerGuy: But it is not easy to change the users configuration (and not a nice thing to do anyway) so to make sure they get the updated artwork the warty-final.png name was kept	05:35
Nubbie	Kalamansi: somebody else was in here with that problem.	05:36
Amaranth	if skype was open source I could fix that ;)	05:36
Nubbie	the best solution is to avoid all closed source software.	05:36
RAOF	Amaranth: If skype was open source I wouldn't have to endure the crappy statically linked 32bit evilness!	05:37
Kalamansi	Amaranth yes its opensource i guess. coz its debian? hehe not sure what im talking about hehehe	05:37
DanaG	I avoid skype. It doesn't play well with PulseAudio.	05:37
cooldevices	RAOF: who cares about laws in europe? they still have bears on the streets	05:37
Amaranth	Kalamansi: Skype is closed source	05:37
cooldevices	not RIAA or Microsoft	05:37
Amaranth	cooldevices: You do realize your audience here is people up late in the US and people up early in Europe, right?	05:37
RAOF	Or people during business hours in .AU!	05:38
Kalamansi	Amaranth it was working before..but when reinstalling ubuntu again it wont work	05:38
Kalamansi	i dont have internet now	05:38
Kalamansi	after installing skype	05:38
Nubbie	cooldevices: you'll open your eyes some day.	05:38
Amaranth	RAOF: People in Australia don't really exist, that's a liberal lie meant to scare young children	05:38
Nubbie	ROFL.	05:38
RAOF	We're all just vamprie ghosts, anyway.	05:38
cooldevices	Amaranth: what i mean is US companies not going to respect EU laws, if you reverse engineer windows or nvidia driver, where it leads?	05:38
Kalamansi	dhcp wont work too	05:39
Nubbie	cooldevices: it leads to new laws being created.	05:39
RAOF	cooldevices: If you do your reverse engineering in Europe, no where.	05:39
DanaG	It's 9:39 PM here -- Pacific Time.	05:39
Amaranth	cooldevices: Actually we have this cool UN treaty that means they do respect these laws	05:39
DanaG	DST? Beats me.	05:39
Amaranth	For copyrights and patents, anyway	05:39
Amaranth	Well, except for software patents	05:39
DanaG	What's this about vampires?	05:40
Nubbie	cooldevices: reverse engineering is essential. if the law should be upheld, the public should not be forced into proprietary monopolies.	05:40
Nubbie	cooldevices: the law will change.	05:40
Amaranth	And reverse engineering is allowed in the US too	05:40
RAOF	DanaG: Australia is populated by vampire ghosts. I thought everyone knew that.	05:40
Amaranth	But to be safe from legal issues you do clean room reverse engineering	05:40
cooldevices	Nubbie: not before US taked over whole world	05:40
Nubbie	one of the reasons Canada is still a safe place for the internet and technology in general.	05:40
Nubbie	cooldevices: that's childish.	05:40
Nubbie	cooldevices: where are you from?	05:41
Amaranth	Which is basically one group of people documenting "when you do this you get this output" and another group using that documentation to write a clone	05:41
DanaG	The only vampire I'd ever want to meet is one Evangeline A.K. McDowell.	05:41
RAOF	Whoops! There goes /var/log getting filled with debug spam again.	05:42
RAOF	Things break in surprising ways when you can't create files on /	05:42
DanaG	My /var/log is only 116M.	05:42
Amaranth	8.3M	05:43
RAOF	DanaG: mine is 470Mb, but that's just because that's all the free space I have on / :)	05:43
RAOF	s/have/had/	05:43
Nubbie	lol.	05:44
DanaG	Hmm, how big is the partition, and how big is the drive?	05:44
RAOF	I've had it grow to > 2 GB.	05:44
RAOF	The partition is 10G, which is usually plenty :)	05:44
DanaG	My partition is 20G.	05:44
RAOF	It used to be 5GB ;)	05:44
* TrustNoOne just enters conversation		05:45
TrustNoOne	whats goin on?	05:45
* DanaG has the Hitachi 7k200-200 in his notebook.		05:45
Nubbie	i usually keep my / partition around 15G... only because i install a lot of big games heheh.	05:45
TrustNoOne	games on linux?	05:45
RAOF	Oh, yeah. I suppose OpenArena took up a fair whallop.	05:45
Nubbie	TrustNoOne.....	05:45
RAOF	That'd be why.	05:45
Tronic	TrustNoOne: There are plenty.	05:45
Nubbie	openarena <3	05:45
Amaranth	most of my games are installed in ~/.wine/drive_c/	05:46
Nubbie	battle for wesnoth!	05:46
TrustNoOne	ya but not GREAT ones, just old ones	05:46
Tronic	(and I am NOT talking about Tuxracer or ID's old games)	05:46
Amaranth	TrustNoOne: Tremulous is awesome	05:46
Nubbie	Amaranth: blast your windows addiction.	05:46
TrustNoOne	ya like WoW and source...	05:46
TrustNoOne	not CoD4 :D	05:46
DanaG	Games don't like PulseAudio.	05:46
Tronic	TrustNoOne: Frets on Fire, UltraStarNG, TA Spring. All new and good.	05:46
Amaranth	Nubbie: It's portal, gotta have portal	05:46
Nubbie	zomg tremulous is my FAV open source game.	05:46
cooldevices	TrustNoOne: actually urban terror is as great as CS16 or COD, or even better	05:46
TrustNoOne	dont like frets :( like GH more	05:46
DanaG	And PulseAudio doesn't use the 'surround51' plugin with my Audigy.	05:46
Tronic	TrustNoOne: Better than their commercial counterparts, even.	05:46
TrustNoOne	"imitation" games	05:46
Amaranth	America's Army is a good one too	05:46
TrustNoOne	its like saying twonkies are as good as twinkies but they still taste different	05:47
Tronic	FoF runs better than GH3 on PC.	05:47
TrustNoOne	i know but its not as sexually appealing	05:47
TrustNoOne	just use ps3 for games instead and got yellow dog on there	05:47
cooldevices	TrustNoOne: actually i was dissapointed with most new windows games, old games was better, ID proving it by remarketing quake 3 as quake live	05:48
Amaranth	http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/001007.html	05:48
Tronic	Yes, the new FoF graphics are somewhat depressing, now that they try to imitate GH. The original 2D flame thing was much nicer.	05:48
Amaranth	Frets vs GH	05:48
TrustNoOne	well depends, i dont PC game much, more console gaming since it requires less config and my 62 inch HDTV supplements it better than a 19 inch monitor ;)	05:48
Nubbie	oooo urban terror looks good.	05:48
TrustNoOne	got GH3 on ps3, its great except the guitar is a PoS	05:49
DanaG	FoF?	05:49
Amaranth	TrustNoOne: But you're at most 2 feet from your 19" monitor and at least 10 feet from your TV so I think the TV is actually smaller	05:49
TrustNoOne	FoF = Frets on Fire	05:49
Tronic	DanaG: A Guitar Hero clone for PC.	05:49
* DanaG plays mostly only HL2-based games.		05:49
Amaranth	DanaG: The cake is a lie	05:49
TrustNoOne	rofl	05:49
Tronic	UltrastarNG is a Singstar clone for Linux and Mac.	05:50
TrustNoOne	the last level of portal was not good	05:50
TrustNoOne	it was creepy	05:50
Amaranth	Portal was _awesome_	05:50
cooldevices	i dont like orange box	05:50
Tronic	TA Spring is a Supreme Commander "clone", created before SC was.	05:50
TrustNoOne	fastest time to beat portal was 1 hour 14 minutes	05:50
DanaG	Oh, I know of Frets on Fire; I just didn't know the abbreviation.	05:50
Amaranth	the only part i didn't like was it was over too soon	05:50
RAOF	Amaranth: Which gave it the added charm of not wearing out its welcome.	05:50
DanaG	I don't like how it crashes if you use the portal gun on the wrong material in HL2 maps.	05:50
Amaranth	but then again if it was longer the story might have been more forced to fill in the time	05:50
* RAOF agrees with GDC: Game of the Year? Portal.		05:50
TrustNoOne	Amaranth, the ending fools you tho, you think its short like other levels but it takes like 20 minutes	05:50
DanaG	Oh, and if you spawn a barnacle under a portal and then feed it something, the game crashes.	05:51
Amaranth	heh, longer than that	05:51
twb	On both server and desktop alpha4 images, /etc/pam.d refers to pam_foreground.so, which isn't installed by default. This results in spurious garbage in /var/log/auth.log, and should probably be removed.	05:51
TrustNoOne	fastest time to beat portal?	05:51
TrustNoOne	1:14	05:51
Flannel	Hey guys, I've got a question as to how Dapper -> Hardy upgrades are working if there's no linux-image-686 transitional packages in hardy? (or at least, not on the alt CD or in packages.ubuntu.com)	05:51
RAOF	twb: Please file a bug.	05:51
Amaranth	TrustNoOne: I'm not interested in speed	05:51
DanaG	Yay, wine is segfaulting.	05:51
DanaG	winecfg	05:51
DanaG	Segmentation fault (core dumped)	05:51
Amaranth	DanaG: Yeah, it does that	05:51
RAOF	DanaG: Known problem.	05:51
DanaG	aah.	05:51
Amaranth	but it doesn't do it here :D	05:51
twb	RAOF: I'm not prepared to use launchpad.	05:51
Amaranth	twb: Why not?	05:51
TrustNoOne	Amaranth, thats the whole point of portal is speed	05:51
DanaG	I also haven't installed the new HAL because I've heard it breaks battery reporting.	05:52
RAOF	DanaG: The winehq gutsy package works fine. You can find out about aptitude forbid-version	05:52
sweetsinse	it does	05:52
TrustNoOne	Amaranth, didnt you do secondary missions where you have to beat it fast?	05:52
twb	Amaranth: because I cannot register without using a graphical browser	05:52
Amaranth	TrustNoOne: It's actually a pretty detailed environment	05:52
Amaranth	twb: oh?	05:52
sweetsinse	i have 2 battery indicators	05:52
RAOF	DanaG: Well, for me it actually fixes my "2 batteries reported" problem.	05:52
twb	Amaranth: that I have to register to file bugs at all demonstrates you don't want my help.	05:52
Amaranth	did they add a captcha?	05:52
TrustNoOne	G2G, watch supernatural :) wheee bbl	05:52
DanaG	That's been "fixed"..... by showing only ONE battery.... that doesn't update.	05:52
twb	Since I can't reproduce this bug under Debian, I'm not reporting it to Debian as I do for other Ubuntu bugs I find. But I thought I should at least mention it.	05:52
Amaranth	twb: If you plan to file bugs and not keep track of their status then no, we really don't want your bug reports	05:52
sweetsinse	you register becasue the bug reports cant be polluted with anonymous posters	05:53
twb	Amaranth: I can track Debian bug reports without having to prove that my email address belongs to me	05:53
RAOF	DanaG: Oooh. I'll need to check that (removes AC)	05:53
sweetsinse	you dont have to prove anything mon	05:53
Amaranth	twb: Your reports will just take time from triagers marking them as Incomplete when you inevitably forget some information then going back and marking them Invalid when you never come back to give said information	05:53
twb	Amaranth: nor do I need to use a web browser to "set up" the ability to report bugs to Debian -- I can just use reportbug(1) on a system that has a working MTA	05:53
Amaranth	twb: You could use Debian then?	05:54
Amaranth	Nothing stopping you.	05:54
twb	I do use Debian for my own projects.	05:54
twb	I am in the deplorable situation of being forced to use Ubuntu on customer systems because I can't convince them otherwise.	05:54
twb	It is, of course, preferable to putting RHEL on their systems.	05:54
Amaranth	yes well, we do good grassroots marketing :)	05:54
sweetsinse	hey man not everyone is ready to jump into linux head first	05:55
sweetsinse	ubuntu makes the hill a little shallower	05:55
RAOF	DanaG: My battery updates. And it's only showing one now.	05:55
Amaranth	sweetsinse: The difference between Debian and Ubuntu is a somewhat large bunch of patches and a default setup	05:55
sweetsinse	i have converted alot of ppl, and now they look into linux stuff themselves and branch from tere	05:56
twb	sweetsinse: that may be the case, but I KNOW how to drive Debian and being forced to use Ubuntu (which is less easy, for me) is annoying.	05:56
twb	forced in order to win the contract, I mean.	05:56
Amaranth	twb: They work almost the exact same way though	05:56
DanaG	Mine also shows one of the two as Product: Ignored Device	05:56
Amaranth	We try very hard to keep as little delta as possible	05:56
DanaG	And that's the one that doesn't update.	05:56
twb	Amaranth: apart from launchpad!	05:56
Amaranth	twb: You have to file bug reports using a tool regular users can figure out, yes.	05:57
twb	The lack of reportbug and bts support is probably what annoys me most about Ubuntu	05:57
Amaranth	Although there is a mail interface too	05:57
Amaranth	But you have to register before you can use it	05:57
twb	Amaranth: I'm not interested in the needs of "regular" users; I'm interested in the needs of me.	05:57
twb	I know all about the mail interface to launchpad	05:57
RAOF	And if you've set up your GPG keys it's as functional as the Debian BTS, too.	05:58
reya276	can anyone help fix some video driver issues	05:58
AnswerGuy	I despise gconf2	05:58
Amaranth	AnswerGuy: Just do the diversion, much easier	05:58
RAOF	AnswerGuy: Because?	05:58
twb	The launhpad mail interface needs me to login via the web interface to set up the GPG key -- which means I need a GUI browser at least once.	05:58
sweetsinse	i dont know ubuntu helped me into linux a couple years back, and it wasnt very easy at first and im a programmer/webdev/etc... average user is much less	05:58
Amaranth	twb: w3m?	05:58
twb	I find this sufficiently offensive that I refuse to use launchpad	05:58
twb	Amaranth: you cannot login to launchpad using w3m, lynx, links, elinks or links2.	05:58
DanaG	Argh, timidity is buggy.	05:59
tritium	There is nothing offensive about it.	05:59
twb	Amaranth: I think I also tried netrik	05:59
DanaG	Try pulseaudio wrapping it.	05:59
twb	tritium: that is your opinion.	05:59
sweetsinse	i helped a guy add arabic to gnome yesterday and hotkey toggle it	05:59
DanaG	It drops out sometimes, and then freezes.	05:59
RAOF	twb: Rather, we think you have a low 'offensiveness' threshold.	05:59
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Amaranth	twb: ah, cookie problems	06:00
Amaranth	they are very strict	06:00
twb	Amaranth: yes. The launchpad developers said they would not fix this issue.	06:00
tritium	this conversation is too trollfensive for me, then	06:00
twb	tritium: then by all means killfile me.	06:00
reya276	right now is defaulting to the Vesa driver instead of ATI or fglrx	06:01
RAOF	reya276: Can you pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?	06:01
Amaranth	twb: You mean to tell me you don't have a single machine that has X installed?	06:01
Amaranth	twb: And have no machine that can boot a LiveCD?	06:01
RAOF	reya276: And your /var/log/Xorg.0.log	06:01
reya276	sure'	06:01
twb	Amaranth: no. I mean to say that GUI browsers are very painful to use and forcing me to use one makes it too hard for me to report bugs to you.	06:02
DanaG	Painful? In what way? Is it an accessibility thing?	06:02
Amaranth	twb: Then we don't care to receive your bug reports, problem solved.	06:02
tritium	Wow, low skill level.	06:02
cooldevices	Amaranth: now this offensive	06:03
cooldevices	isnt ubuntu server comes without X?	06:03
twb	cooldevices: ubuntu server does not install X by default.	06:04
reya276	ok here is my xorg.0.log file http://www.pastebin.org/20699	06:04
Amaranth	cooldevices: You can boot a LiveCD that has X	06:04
twb	cooldevices: it's backed by the same repository as the rest of ubuntu, so you can install it later.	06:04
RAOF	And you only need to use a graphical browser once. After you've set it up, you can just use a mailer + GPG keys.	06:04
twb	RAOF: yes. hand-crafting bug reports, too.	06:05
DanaG	Why DO you say GUI browsers are painful? Frankly, I am curious.	06:05
reya276	and this is my xorg.conf file http://www.pastebin.org/20700	06:05
cooldevices	DanaG: i think he free to decide which browser to use	06:06
twb	DanaG: for example, they lack the ability to pipe the marked region into arbitrary shell commands.	06:06
twb	DanaG: they lack the ablitiy to grep over the region or the buffer	06:06
DanaG	Surely there must be some Firefox extension to do that, or something.	06:06
twb	DanaG: probably, but I'd prefer it to Just Work out of the box, like it does when browsing from Emacs.	06:07
RAOF	reya276: Try adding 'Driver "ati"' (without the ') to the Configured Video Device section.	06:08
sweetsinse	everyone wants it to 'just work'.. hence ubuntu	06:08
cooldevices	what if someone have X problem, so it cant use it to file bug?	06:08
cooldevices	he	06:08
sweetsinse	:( there is never going to be an alpha 5	06:10
reya276	RAOF: ok did that, do I reboot, restart xserver?	06:10
RAOF	reya276: Restart X server should do.	06:10
reya276	k	06:10
RAOF	reya276: And by that, I mean just log out.	06:10
cooldevices	and... why ubuntu server comes without X if it is required for support?	06:11
RAOF	Because it isn't.	06:11
RAOF	You need t	06:11
RAOF	You need to use a graphical browser once in order to set up a LP account. From then on, you can do everything you want with $TEXT_MODE_MAIL_CLIENT of choice.	06:11
twb	cooldevices: I think it's assumed that if you're going to be reporting bugs, you've got another box somewhere else with firefox on it.	06:11
tritium	cooldevices: support is offered in many forms, including IRC. X is not required for support.	06:12
twb	At least, as RAOF say, once.	06:12
cooldevices	tritium: IRC is not for filing bugs	06:12
RAOF	twb: Which, you have to admit, is not a high bar to set.	06:12
tritium	cooldevices: I didn't say it was.	06:12
tritium	when did I say support = filing bugs?	06:12
cooldevices	what are we discussin now?	06:13
cooldevices	problem with filing bugs, and this may be essential for getting support	06:13
twb	RAOF: it is inconvenient, as is having to remember the syntax accepted by the launchpad mail interface, as is collecting version and debconf data by hand.	06:13
tritium	cooldevices: I was replying to _your_ statement about X being required for support	06:13
tritium	Your choice of words, not mine.	06:13
cooldevices	11:13:30 AM) cooldevices: problem with filing bugs, and this may be essential for getting support	06:13
tritium	23:11 < cooldevices> and... why ubuntu server comes without X if it is required for support?	06:14
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
RAOF	twb: I think that Ubuntu's reportbug is primed for launchpad, but I'm not sure.	06:14
twb	RAOF: it's not	06:14
twb	RAOF: it sends it to ubuntu-users, which is a subscribed-only list	06:14
RAOF	twb: Patches welcome? :)	06:14
twb	Yeah, I haven't got around to it.	06:15
RAOF	You might be interested in the python-launchpad-bugs package.	06:16
RAOF	If you'd like to write your bug report from a python console it may be useful for you without modification :)	06:16
twb	Not especially.	06:17
sweetsinse	hi.	06:18
RAOF	DanaG: Oh, no. You're right. The battery updates exactly once.	06:25
cooldevices	twb: isnt servers ussualy have no DVD drives... to run livecd	06:30
twb	cooldevices: that depends largely on what you mean by `server'	06:30
DanaG	You could install a bare X server and a very simple window manager, such as a tiling WM.	06:30
cooldevices	and probably no monitors too, to run this X thingy	06:30
DanaG	Then try something like the 'netsurf' browser.	06:31
DanaG	Or install a "fake" x server for vnc.	06:31
twb	cooldevices: most of my servers are not physical machines, but emulated by a grunty rack-mounted machine. I interact with them via ssh.	06:31
twb	DanaG: xvnc isn't "fake".	06:31
twb	netsurf's form support is still unusable.	06:32
DanaG	Hmm, what are some other minimal browsers?	06:33
twb	Well, it might be good enough for stuff like the google front-page, as long as you don't need to type non-ASCII.	06:33
twb	DanaG: dillo.	06:33
twb	DanaG: libwebkitgdk0	06:33
twb	The latter also has form support issues in its proof-of-concept browser.	06:33
twb	I'm also a big fan of html2ps URL \| ps2pdf \| with-temp-file evince	06:34
DanaG	Well, if you already use evince, then you must have X..... right?	06:34
TrustNoOne	wow supernatural was awesome	06:35
twb	DanaG: yes.	06:36
twb	Although obviously not on the Ubuntu servers.	06:37
cooldevices	is firefox open source?	06:39
twb	Yes.	06:39
Tronic	Yes, but not quite free enough for some.	06:39
Tronic	Google for iceweasel and mozilla branding, if you want to know more.	06:40
twb	Firefox is open source and free software; the related TRADEMARKs are not DFSG-free.	06:40
twb	17:40 <dpkg> Why iceweasel? Debian cannot comply with the conditions necessary to distribute firefox and call it firefox, so we have changed the name to iceweasel. See http://bugs.debian.org/354622 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_conflict_between_Debian_and_Mozilla for more information.	06:40
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Nubbie	alpha 5....	06:46
Nubbie	is it live yet?	06:47
Nubbie	:\	06:47
cooldevices	games almost always crash when trying to change resolution, and desktop not return to normal resolution, and now my mouse was frozen, when trying to change resolution in frets on fire	06:53
cooldevices	but now game start with new resolution	06:53
mcquaid	has alpha 5 slipped?	06:54
mcquaid	ah nm i see delayed till 22	06:55
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
cooldevices	it IS 22 lol	07:00
corevette	what are the advantages of pulse audio over the old system?	07:00
RAOF	corevette: Per-stream audio policies, better network transparency, better latency characteristics.	07:01
cooldevices	many, like cross applications mixer (but i cant find it) like in VISTA	07:01
Nubbie	shit.	07:02
RAOF	!ohmy > Nubbie	07:02
Nubbie	:l	07:02
Nubbie	RAOF: you're disappointed the alpha got held back too, don't lie to yourself :)	07:02
twb	Pulseaudio is a replacement for alsa?	07:02
RAOF	twb: No, for ESD.	07:03
twb	Ah, that makes more sense.	07:03
cooldevices	where is new mixer?	07:03
RAOF	Although you can use an alsa plugin to get unmodified alsa apps to use pulse.	07:03
corevette	cooldevices: so you can control all application volume like in vista?	07:03
twb	Although it always seemed to me the main point of esd was to be able to play music and have GNOME go beep when you resize windows and things	07:03
RAOF	Pretty much, yes. Or, in fact, to let GNOME make any sound at all.	07:04
cooldevices	lol so it was not bug that i have no sound in openarena when playing mp3?	07:04
RAOF	pulseaudio cleans your dishes, too.	07:04
Nubbie	ESD was developed as a wrapper for the sound device so no one program controls the audio sink. ESD combines all sounds into one signal to be sent to the sink.	07:04
twb	Doesn't alsa do that now anyway?	07:05
RAOF	With dmix, yes.	07:05
Nubbie	twb: but pulse audio does it better.	07:05
twb	Shrug.	07:05
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Nubbie	much much better.	07:05
RAOF	Also, you get a real sound server too.	07:05
Nubbie	mmhrmm... ie. send this sound to another computer server heheh.	07:06
twb	You mean like NAS?	07:06
RAOF	Well, what I actually meant was "play login sound now".	07:06
Nubbie	i look forward to tuning in all my computers into a single audio server to play my music all over the house.	07:06
cooldevices	so now i will have sound in openareana when playing music in music player?	07:06
cooldevices	rhythmbox	07:06
RAOF	Nubbie: My laptop is, as I speak, piping rhythmbox through to my server connected to the stereo.	07:06
Nubbie	RAOF: i found pulseaudio intriguing when i used it last.	07:07
DanaG	PulseAudio can also do nifty stuff with multiple audio devices.	07:07
Nubbie	the GUI's could have used some polishing and love though.	07:07
RAOF	Yup, definitely.	07:07
Nubbie	i have a good idea for a new volume applet...	07:08
cooldevices	what gui?	07:08
Nubbie	it would function similarly to the current one.	07:08
Nubbie	a mouse scroll over the icon will change the master volume levels, while clicking it reveals a list of each application using the server with a volume bar next to each one.	07:08
Nubbie	kinda like a drop down list of volume bars heheh.	07:09
cooldevices	Nubbie: i have vlc and rhythbox each playing music, and i have only 1 volume bar with left-click	07:14
Nubbie	cooldevices: of course... that's because you aren't using my idea for a volume applet... because it's non-existent. it's just an idea.	07:17
cooldevices	(12:07:28 PM) Nubbie: the GUI's could have used some polishing and love though. ---- what gui?	07:18
Nubbie	cooldevices: the pulse audio ones. when i installed pulse audio it didn't integrate with my desktop to my liking.	07:18
cooldevices	how i can run pulse audio gui?	07:18
Nubbie	obviously the ubuntu devs are working on that now that it's going to be a major upgrade to the distribution.	07:19
Nubbie	afaik they didn't include the gui's in this alpha.	07:19
cooldevices	lol...	07:19
DanaG	padevchooser is one thing to install.	07:20
cooldevices	thanks	07:20
cooldevices	shows no playback streams	07:24
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
DanaG	Are you playing anything?	07:26
cooldevices	yes	07:26
DanaG	Hmm, perhaps it's not using pulseaudio.	07:27
Nubbie	:l	07:27
DanaG	Look in system->preferences->sound	07:27
Assid	anyone know if the flash no sound issue is solved?	07:29
cooldevices	DanaG: yeah now it works... but i required also choose pulse audio in players... may it just force itself as default device?	07:31
DanaG	Sure. Install libasound2-plugins and then do 'asoundconf set-pulseaudio'	07:32
DanaG	but be aware that some apps break badly with it.	07:32
DanaG	Example: Skype.	07:32
Assid	err.. is pulseaudio responsible for my flash videos not having sound?	07:32
cooldevices	btw i cant control balance, it is same for both channels....	07:32
cooldevices	oh nvm i found it	07:33
Assid	oh wait.. i see a bug similar to what i have	07:33
cooldevices	lol now openarena refuses to start	07:35
cooldevices	but forcing work for vlc	07:35
DanaG	Oh, for flash: libflashsupport	07:37
Assid	if i unmount drives before i logout/shutdown why does it munt up automatically when i login	07:37
Nubbie	Assid: because by default ubuntu mounts everything attached to your computer.	07:38
cooldevices	lol now pulse audio frozened with badly "loop" sound	07:38
Assid	yeah but the internal drives.. it really should remember the "state" right ?	07:39
Nubbie	Assid: why is that? if you don't want it mounting automatically, remove it from your fstab.	07:39
Nubbie	assid: or don't remove it, just add the 'noauto' attribute.	07:40
prg3	Just ran across something interesting.. "apt-get remove nano" tries to pull out ubuntu-base..	07:41
Nubbie	nano is an essential editing tool.	07:42
Assid	Nubbie: it isnt in my fstab	07:42
Nubbie	Assid: if it's an internal drive, it must be in your fstab.	07:43
cooldevices	i cant disable "tracker search" (btw one more feature from vista lol), i disable checkboxes "indexing" and "watching", and its still running, animating, "status: indexing in progress" etc.	07:43
Nubbie	cooldevices: are you kidding? ubuntu's had desktop search tools long before windows.	07:43
Amaranth	actually we've had search tools like this longer than both OS X and Windows	07:43
Assid	Nubbie: no i disabled it the time i installed ubuntu	07:43
Amaranth	I'd like to believe Spotlight was inspired by Dashboard/Beagle	07:44
prg3	Nubbie: I've never used it :)	07:44
Amaranth	cooldevices: What other features do you think we got from Vista?	07:44
cooldevices	actually places->search for files tool was not able for find files for me in 7.10	07:44
Nubbie	Amaranth: steve jobs would like to believe he invented UNIX.	07:44
DanaG	That little blinky icon is so irritating.	07:44
DanaG	The indexing itself is fine, but I hate the animatedness.	07:45
Nubbie	cooldevices: if you want to turn off tracker, turn it off in the services dialogue.	07:45
Amaranth	cooldevices: Just because we've had the tools doesn't mean they've been ready for mass use or installed and integrated by default into distros	07:45
cooldevices	Amaranth: well sorry about that vista thing	07:45
DanaG	Naah, I just want to un-animate the **** icon.	07:45
Amaranth	cooldevices: No, seriously, I want to know	07:45
Nubbie	cooldevices: it's fanboyism, and it's totally not needed.	07:45
cooldevices	Nubbie: what exactly fanboism?	07:46
cooldevices	runnin ubuntu is fanboism? i agree	07:46
cooldevices	i just have no money to buy os	07:46
* DanaG wants to have the Heron wallpaper made into a case skin.		07:46
cooldevices	but used to love ubuntu now	07:46
DanaG	That'd be awesome.	07:46
Nubbie	cooldevices: if you can't afford windows, steal it.	07:47
Nubbie	cooldevices: obviously you're still married to it.	07:47
cooldevices	well... i kind of dont need it anymore	07:47
Assid	okay this is odd	07:47
Amaranth	cooldevices: Seriously, I'm not 'mad' or anything, what features do you think we have that come from Vista?	07:47
Assid	mount doesnt show my swap	07:47
Amaranth	cooldevices: Maybe you're right, maybe I can show you where they really come from (probably OS X :)	07:48
DanaG	The other day, I found my swap partition had randomly become not a swap partition.	07:48
Nubbie	Assid: because swap isn't mounted.	07:48
Amaranth	DanaG: Filed to hibernate?	07:48
Nubbie	Assid: swap isn't really even a file system.	07:48
Amaranth	err, failed	07:48
DanaG	I'm not sure.	07:48
DanaG	I've tried suspend-to-disk, and it suspends fine, but often doesn't even bother TRYing to resume.	07:48
Amaranth	hibernating destroys your swap partition then regenerates it on resume	07:48
cooldevices	Amaranth: to be exact, i'm not saying they are from vista... i'm aware of features like that in MacOSX etc, it is just look for me this way... what another features look this way? let me think...	07:49
Amaranth	DanaG: need to add a resume= option in your grub kernel line	07:49
Amaranth	DanaG: resume=/dev/sda5 or whatever	07:49
Assid	how do i know what the uuid of a paritition is ?	07:49
Nubbie	Amaranth: nah, hibernation just freezes ram and throws it all to swap.	07:49
DanaG	vol_id -u	07:49
Amaranth	Assid: volid	07:49
Amaranth	Nubbie: It's a bit more complicated than that	07:49
Amaranth	Nubbie: But it doesn't dump it to swap, it basically dd's it over the swap partition	07:50
Amaranth	Which destroys it	07:50
Nubbie	Amaranth: yeah like the L1 and L2 caches right?	07:50
Nubbie	oh i didn't know that. so if resuming fails, the swap partition isn't recreated	07:50
Amaranth	no, we don't care about caches	07:50
Amaranth	we throw all of those away	07:50
Nubbie	isn't dd somewhat dangerous a tool to use?	07:50
Amaranth	Nubbie: Right, you have to remake it with swapon	07:50
Amaranth	It's not literally dd	07:50
Assid	oh wait.. i want to know about resume/hibernating	07:50
Assid	Amaranth: shouldnt the hibernate automatically suspend to disk ?	07:51
DanaG	Odd, it didn't hibernate. It popped back to desktop.	07:52
Assid	the one from the logout options	07:52
Amaranth	Assid: hibernate means suspend-to-disk so i certainly hope so	07:52
cooldevices	Amaranth: actually new between-app mixer look like from vista too, and that feature is not "long before vista", it was implemented in vista 1 year ago, and not in ubuntu	07:52
Amaranth	DanaG: Something inhibiting suspend?	07:52
Assid	okay lemme try it	07:52
Assid	brb	07:52
Amaranth	cooldevices: But pulseaudio has been around for years	07:52
Nubbie	a kernel update sometime after feisty's release finally got sleep/hibernation working for me.	07:52
Amaranth	and pulseaudio is what gives that feature	07:52
Assid	Amaranth: do i need to add resume=... to the grub line ?	07:53
cooldevices	Amaranth: maybe, why it is not in ubuntu then?	07:53
Assid	or will it know what to do	07:53
Nubbie	cooldevices: you should do more research before preaching in here.	07:53
Amaranth	Assid: If your problem is that you can hibernate but resume just does a fresh boot then yes	07:53
Amaranth	cooldevices: Because it was not considered 1) done and 2) worth having	07:53
DanaG	!google pulpaudio.	07:53
Assid	last time around (2 weeks back) was when i tried hibernating.. it just sat there with the cursor on the first line	07:54
DanaG	s/polp/polyp	07:54
DanaG	the old name.	07:54
Assid	the system didnt go to hibernation mode (power normally blinks). But this time was constantly on	07:54
Nubbie	cooldevices: nearly every single new feature in vista was ripped off linux, or OSX. the only vaguely unique ideas are using free space on flash drives as swap, and the "hybrid" drive usage.	07:54
cooldevices	Nubbie: lol	07:54
Assid	nevertheless let me try again	07:54
Amaranth	Everyone rips off everyone	07:55
Assid	brb	07:55
Nubbie	cooldevices: it's absolutely true.	07:55
Amaranth	But almost all of the "exciting new features" in Vista come from somewhere else	07:55
Nubbie	cooldevices: give me one "new" feature from vista, and i will disprove it's originality for you.	07:55
cooldevices	.NET anyone? bright future of GNOME	07:55
Amaranth	cooldevices: and?	07:55
Nubbie	cooldevices: .NET is not a new feature.	07:55
cooldevices	NET3 is	07:55
DanaG	OOooooh, 40 to 50 megabytes per second.	07:55
Nubbie	cooldevices: is that a new version of an old idea?	07:56
* DanaG loves having a 7k200-200.		07:56
Amaranth	cooldevices: It is an alternative to Python for applications, it will not be used for core parts of the system or key libraries, just like Python isn't	07:56
Amaranth	DanaG: My laptop gets 42	07:56
cooldevices	Amaranth: d-bus?	07:56
DanaG	This is about 2/3 of the way through the disk, starting at the front.	07:56
Nubbie	cooldevices: dbus is a new feature of windows eh...	07:57
Amaranth	cooldevices: DBus is a more featureful and cross-desktop implementation of dcop from KDE	07:57
Amaranth	It replaces CORBA in GNOME	07:57
cooldevices	i know	07:57
cooldevices	and it is rewritten in mono	07:57
Amaranth	Err, no	07:57
DanaG	Nifty thingy:	07:58
Nubbie	cooldevices: the only reason it was rewritten in mono was to port some linux applications to windows.	07:58
DanaG	!info wmhdplop	07:58
ubotu	wmhdplop (source: wmhdplop): A hard drive activity monitor dockapp. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.9-1 (hardy), package size 28 kB, installed size 124 kB	07:58
Amaranth	There is a C# version of libdbus, which is used for clients, not the dbus server	07:58
cooldevices	Nubbie: wrong	07:58
Nubbie	cooldevices: ie porting banshee to windows.	07:58
Amaranth	Nubbie: Nope	07:58
Amaranth	dbus is C	07:58
Amaranth	The ndesk thing is a rewrite of libdbus in C# because regular libdbus bindings are tricky to use in C# apps	07:59
cooldevices	you should do more research before preaching in here.	07:59
cooldevices	about dbus	07:59
Amaranth	Only C# apps use this	07:59
Nubbie	cooldevices: so how is dbus a windows vista feature?	07:59
cooldevices	it was said to Nubbie:	07:59
Amaranth	Everyone else still uses libdbus, the C version	07:59
cooldevices	Nubbie: NET is windows feature lol	07:59
Amaranth	The dbus server is still written in C	07:59
Amaranth	.NET is an open standard created by microsoft	07:59
Nubbie	cooldevices: read, the server is NOT written in NET.	07:59
Amaranth	But it's nothing special, really	08:00
cooldevices	actually gnome devs have long plans for useing mono... for rewriting other apps	08:00
Amaranth	cooldevices: Hi, I'm a GNOME dev. You're misinformed	08:00
Amaranth	cooldevices: No one is rewriting working apps in C# just for the sake of doing it	08:01
cooldevices	well nice to meet one lol)	08:01
Nubbie	cooldevices: so we should be badgering windows for using C, a language written by some other software devs.	08:01
Amaranth	cooldevices: You can write evolution plugins in C#, iirc	08:01
Amaranth	and tomboy is written in C#	08:01
Nubbie	cooldevices: .NET is not a new feature in vista, get off that horse.	08:01
Amaranth	nothing else actually in GNOME has anything to do with C#	08:01
cooldevices	Nubbie: you horse	08:02
mshooshtar1	How's the Alpha5 going?	08:02
Nubbie	cooldevices: mono doesn't even ship with ubuntu if i recall.	08:02
Amaranth	Nubbie: It does	08:02
Amaranth	Nubbie: We have tomboy and f-spot	08:02
Amaranth	mshooshtar1: Ask again in 12 hours or so :)	08:02
Nubbie	Amaranth: ohh right. i'm still back in breezy days :P	08:02
Amaranth	mshooshtar1: Actually don't ask at all, just wait for the announcement	08:02
cooldevices	Nubbie: you should do more research before preaching in here.	08:02
Nubbie	cooldevices: dude, my mistakes have nothing to do with windows.	08:03
mshooshtar1	I should just be happy with gutsy for now	08:03
Amaranth	cooldevices: Calm	08:03
DanaG	Oooooooh, hibernate worked.	08:03
Assid	ok hibernation is messed up	08:03
Nubbie	rofl.	08:03
Amaranth	mshooshtar1: Yes, hardy is not ready for regular use	08:03
Assid	while going to hibernation i got something like usb 1-3 clear tt .....	08:03
Nubbie	Assid: apparently DanaG knows what he's doing :)	08:03
Amaranth	alpha 5 doesn't change that	08:03
Assid	and a whole page full of it	08:03
Nubbie	Assid: yeah those error messages don't mean much. it would be nice if they could clean those up though....	08:03
DanaG	I had to use /dev/sda5 rather than uuid, because uuid on swap seems to change.	08:03
Assid	Nubbie: didnt say DanaG didnt.	08:04
DanaG	I also had to do that with my fstab.	08:04
mshooshtar1	I love playing in the blood though.	08:04
Amaranth	DanaG: Yes, uuid changes when you format the partition :)	08:04
Nubbie	Assid: i mean, look to him for help ;)	08:04
Assid	also when i resumed.. i got back to x.. got stuck in a white screen.. didnt go anywhere :(	08:04
Amaranth	anything else you want to pick my brain about? :)	08:04
Amaranth	Assid: nvidia?	08:05
Assid	yep	08:05
mshooshtar1	meaning bleeding edge, not some sort of psychotic thing.	08:05
Amaranth	Assid: blindly type in your password, you're looking at gnome-screensaver	08:05
Assid	oh	08:05
DanaG	How do you change the UUID of an HFS+ partition?	08:05
Nubbie	mshooshtar1: good, i was worried for a minute lol.	08:05
DanaG	I have two partitions with the same UUID, and it thoroughly confuses gnome-volume-manager.	08:05
Nubbie	DanaG: HFS+ is the devil's child.	08:05
Assid	and the time it took to resume was the same amt of time to restart	08:05
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Amaranth	Assid: The problem is when you do a VT switch away from the X server the nvidia driver will no longer allocate memory for textures. Since you're using compiz every window is a texture, gnome-screensaver is a fullscreen one. Thus, fullscreen blank texture.	08:06
mshooshtar1	I suppose the thing I'm waiting most for is the new Xorg stuff being finished completely, it was late for Gutsy so was not implemented.	08:06
* DanaG has his PC as a hackintosh, but only boots OS X about once every 2 or 3 or more weeks.		08:06
Amaranth	mshooshtar1: What stuff in particular?	08:06
Assid	i see.. so if i punch in the password.. will the driver start re-allocating?	08:06
mshooshtar1	I was having problems with webex and desktop sharing and wanted to try that out with somebody.	08:06
Assid	DanaG: hackintosh didnt want to start installing on mine :\|	08:07
Amaranth	Assid: Yes, it is only windows created while X is not active that have problems	08:07
Amaranth	Assid: So only that gnome-screensaver window	08:07
* DanaG is lucky: I have TPM, I have HPET, I have ICH7-M southbridge, I have GeForce GO 7600.		08:07
DanaG	s/GO/Go/	08:07
Assid	Amaranth: fair enough .. will try again	08:07
mshooshtar1	If you give me a moment, I could probably find the specific thing with xorg that was getting complaints.	08:07
Amaranth	Any other windows that might have popped up in the short time before you hibernated can be minimized and restored to get their texture wiped and reallocated	08:07
Assid	Amaranth: any drop in performance otherwise ?	08:08
Nubbie	mshooshtar1: plug and play projector configuration....	08:08
Assid	Amaranth: i got one of those jmicron ich9	08:08
Amaranth	Assid: The OpenGL sync to vblank extension is completely hosed on resume from hibernate, can't remember if that is for running applications or new ones too. That is the reason we disable sync to vblank in compiz and why you cannot enable it and do suspend	08:08
Assid	ok	08:09
Amaranth	Assid: This means OpenGL applications will either be broken or work harder rendering frames that you don't even see but that is not a huge problem	08:09
Assid	my main issue atm is i can never logout of x	08:10
Nubbie	that is a bad problem	08:10
Amaranth	Ah yes, that is a fun one. Usually only happens with fglrx though	08:10
Assid	Amaranth: considering the amount of time it takes to resume and restart.. i think i might avoid hibernation	08:10
Amaranth	And of course when you logout X is restarted automatically so you can't even logout	08:10
Amaranth	Assid: You can install uswsusp, it'll compress the image as it writes it out to disk	08:11
Amaranth	Since the entire process is IO bound (your HD is much slower than your CPU) this means it'll go faster because it has less to write and less to read back	08:11
Assid	err no .. my problem is .. i cant logout/shufdown/ restart. X just gets hung . I have to actually CTRL ALT BKSPC for X to renice which then lets the processes such as reboot/logout/shutdown to take place	08:11
Amaranth	But yes, hibernation is almost completely worthless unless you _really_ need to save the current state of what you have running exactly	08:11
Assid	Amaranth: ^^^ - exactly.. gonna avoid it for now	08:12
Amaranth	suspend-to-ram is much more interesting	08:12
Amaranth	sleep	08:12
DanaG	What about alt-sysrq-k?	08:12
DanaG	It's more powerful than ctrl-alt-backspace.	08:12
Amaranth	heh	08:12
Assid	DanaG: point is.. im not supposed to do anything.. i click logout..it should logout	08:13
Amaranth	or alt-sysrq-r, vt switch, and killall Xorg	08:13
Assid	i shouldnt have to touch the keyboard at all	08:13
DanaG	Sometimes I try to resume from RAM and get a hang where even my toggle-wireless hotkey won't work.	08:13
DanaG	Is that a BIOS bug?	08:13
Assid	let me try sleep meanwhile	08:13
Assid	hold up	08:13
Amaranth	DanaG: Nope, just means it died somewhere in the kernel before it even got back to bringing userspace up	08:13
DanaG	The hotkey is BIOS-handled on my PC, though.	08:14
DanaG	I can toggle it when in GRUB.	08:14
Amaranth	not if your CPU is locked	08:14
Amaranth	you can toggle caps lock in grub too, can't when you get a kernel panic	08:14
Assid	yep sleep somewhat works	08:15
Assid	i pressed the power 2 times to finally get it up	08:15
Amaranth	sleep starting working perfectly for me in hardy thanks to 2.6.24	08:15
Amaranth	in gutsy i had to add a kernel option to make it report the OS as !Linux so I wouldn't hit the linux-specific code in my computer's acpi implementation	08:16
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
Amaranth	and it would still fail to resume about 10% of the time	08:16
Assid	so whats the difference between sleep eats very less power	08:16
Assid	anyone know how much less?	08:16
Amaranth	enough to stay suspending for a month or so on a full battery, iirc	08:16
Amaranth	well, obviously depending on how well we managed to make your system sleep and how big your battery is	08:16
Assid	sweet.. i should start suspending when i go to bed then	08:17
Amaranth	oh, you're running a desktop?	08:17
Assid	yep]	08:17
Amaranth	i'm surprised it worked then, suspend in general on desktops tends to suck	08:17
Amaranth	in windows too, because no one cares about it	08:18
Amaranth	I guess they started caring	08:18
Assid	worked fine here.. except i had to press the power button a few times to get it to power up	08:18
Assid	okay what about my X not killing itself	08:18
Amaranth	driver bug	08:18
Amaranth	no fix possible	08:18
Assid	:(	08:18
Amaranth	http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Fri/mel8-139.ogg <--Suspend to Disk: Why does it hurt so?	08:19
mshooshtar1	Hmm, here's one, Firefox3 and java plugins, it's prompting for a plugin even though the plugin is installed.	08:19
Amaranth	that's a talk by the only guy i know of who really cares about suspend issues on linux	08:20
Assid	i need more bandwith	08:20
Amaranth	java applets? i don't even think i have that plugin installed	08:20
Assid	mshooshtar1: you using sun-java6 ?	08:21
mshooshtar1	I get the prompt to install the plugin, the plugin finder service starts up then I pick the plugins	08:21
Amaranth	haven't had a reason to since i stopped using IBM's java-based dumb client emulator for some mainframe i can't remember the name of	08:21
mshooshtar1	I've installed the java 5 plugin	08:21
Assid	use icedtea instead	08:21
Assid	blackhawk !?	08:21
mshooshtar1	let me try that one.	08:21
Assid	Amaranth: no audio on that link	08:21
mshooshtar1	I've tried 5, 6 so far	08:22
capiira	alpha 5 is still not out right ?	08:22
Amaranth	Assid: works fine here, get a better player :)	08:22
Amaranth	capiira: Every time someone asks the release is delayed 1 hour :)	08:22
Assid	totem :(	08:22
* Amaranth goes to the store to get a soda		08:22
Amaranth	Assid: That's what I'm using, works just fine	08:22
capiira	lol	08:22
Assid	Amaranth: same issue yday.. now my flash audio wont work	08:22
Wander_w	Amaranth: So when is it coming out? :P	08:23
Assid	yeah audio is messed up	08:23
Amaranth	Assid: It's just theora/vorbis in an ogg container, this is stuff totem supports in the default install	08:23
Amaranth	Assid: ah you have pulseaudio running but don't have gstreamer set to use it	08:23
Amaranth	so it tries alsa, fails, and you get no sound	08:23
Assid	umm.. ok?!	08:23
Assid	so apt-get install gstreamer ?	08:23
Amaranth	no, run gstreamer-properties	08:24
mshooshtar1	so installing icedtea java 7 and the plugin, let's see what happens.	08:24
Amaranth	set the audio sink to pulseaudio	08:24
* Amaranth goes to the store to get a soda		08:24
Assid	err nothing happens	08:25
mshooshtar1	Yay, Java installed :)	08:26
Assid	pulseaudio .. my device goes unsupported	08:26
Assid	mshooshtar1: icedtea?	08:26
mshooshtar1	icedtea	08:26
Assid	good	08:26
mshooshtar1	Is that going to be turned on as the default java for install?	08:26
Assid	Amaranth: noppe.. doesnt work	08:27
Assid	great i have no audio	08:28
DanaG	Is Pulseaudio daemon even running?	08:29
Assid	yes	08:29
Assid	i trried restarting it	08:29
Assid	still didnt help	08:29
DanaG	how about 'pulseaudio -v' ?	08:30
DanaG	Oh, and make sure to do asoundconf.	08:30
Assid	asoundconf set-pulseaudio	08:31
Assid	nothing happened	08:31
Assid	still no sound	08:31
DanaG	Hmm, try aplay /usr/share/sounds/login.wav	08:31
Assid	http://assid.pastebin.com/d6ca407d	08:32
DanaG	AAh, missing library!	08:35
Assid	loaded that	08:35
DanaG	!find libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so	08:35
ubotu	File libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so found in libasound2-plugins	08:36
Assid	yeah already loaded that	08:36
Assid	now i get it to run ther play command.. but nothing happens	08:36
DanaG	"loaded"?	08:36
DanaG	oh, installed.	08:36
DanaG	Hmm, also open the volume control app.	08:36
Assid	*** PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Timeout	08:37
Assid	ALSA snd_pcm_open error: Connection refused	08:37
Assid	play ao: Could not open default device: error 5	08:37
Assid	play soxio: Failed writing `default':	08:37
DanaG	Aah, server isn't running.	08:37
DanaG	Oh, handy hint: sudo adduser yourusername pulse-rt	08:37
DanaG	It'll let PulseAudio get better priority.	08:37
DanaG	Oh, go to a console and run pulseaudio -v if you want debug info.	08:37
Assid	http://assid.pastebin.com/d4d1b6afa	08:40
DanaG	Do you have the module-hal instaled?	08:40
DanaG	I installed every single pulseaudio-related package, just to get all of it.	08:41
Assid	dunno let me try to install	08:41
Assid	cant find module-hal	08:41
DanaG	!info pulseaudio-module-hal	08:41
ubotu	pulseaudio-module-hal (source: pulseaudio): HAL device detection module for PulseAudio sound server. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.9-1ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 14 kB, installed size 100 kB	08:41
Assid	pulseaudio-module-hal is already the newest version.	08:42
Assid	yeah installed	08:42
DanaG	Odd.	08:42
DanaG	Oh, don't 'sudo' pulseaudio.	08:43
Assid	say what?	08:43
Assid	oh yeha my vlc doesnt want to startt video now.. just hangs	08:44
DanaG	W: main.c: This program is not intended to be run as root (unless --system is specified).	08:44
Assid	my terminals are starting tocrash	08:45
Assid	for some weird reason	08:45
DanaG	Try paplay -v /usr/share/sounds/login.wav	08:46
DanaG	Oh, what sound card?	08:47
DanaG	It looks like it may need some funky customizations.	08:47
DanaG	It's not loading properly.	08:47
Assid	can i go back to alsa?	08:48
DanaG	Anyway, I'm going to go to bed soon, but for now, perhaps the best thing to do is to UNset pulseaudoo and choose ALSA in the gnome thingy.	08:48
Assid	i tried rthat.. didnt help earlier	08:48
DanaG	asoundconf unset-pulseaudio	08:48
Assid	let me reboot	08:49
Assid	brb	08:49
DanaG	And sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/pulseaudio (so it won't try to start).	08:49
Assid	err.. need to restart.. terminals are crashing here	08:49
Assid	brb	08:49
Assid	back	08:55
Assid	ok alsa work	08:56
DanaG	Is alsa working again?	08:59
Assid	yep	08:59
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Assid	err.. now vlc doesnt want to full screen	09:01
Assid	and now it works	09:01
DanaG	Good. Now it's time for me to go to bed. When c r i m s u n is on (spacing to avoid a ping, for politeness), perhaps he (I think... though you can't always assume, and I don't remember) will be able to help/	09:01
Assid	fair enuff	09:03
stefanv	hey all, has anyone had any problems with the compose key under Hardy?	09:20
Amaranth	Assid: Sounds like your "mostly working" hibernate run corrupted some kernel memory	09:37
Assid	Amaranth: with referance to terminals crashing? audio going haywire?	09:38
Amaranth	yeah	09:38
Assid	btw.. why would i want to use pulse over alsa ?	09:38
Amaranth	because you can do fun things with it	09:38
Assid	err.. like ?!	09:39
Amaranth	like control volume of applications separately, seemlessly transfer sound output to another machine over the network and then back again, etc	09:39
Assid	should i try and jump back to pulse?	09:39
Amaranth	well, it is supposed to be the default for hardy	09:40
Assid	okay seem to work now	09:41
Assid	err the audio/video syunchronization seems off	09:42
Assid	yep	09:42
Assid	takes a while for the audio stream to hit back	09:43
Amaranth	yep, vlc sucks	09:43
Assid	btw in gstreamer-properties.. i chose pulseaudio but the device dropdown shows unsupported	09:43
Assid	great now i got an audio in a loop.. why does vlc end up with this issue?	09:45
Amaranth	vlc's pulse support sucks	09:46
Amaranth	just make it use alsa	09:46
Amaranth	then it'll go through the alsa pulse bridge thing	09:46
Assid	make vlc use alsa.. or the system ?	09:46
Amaranth	vlc	09:46
Assid	err.. gotta restart x	09:47
Amaranth	you said you had it set to use pulse directly	09:47
Amaranth	oh actually it only has alsa	09:47
Amaranth	which is broken	09:47
Assid	that was in gstreamer	09:47
Amaranth	vlc does goofy things	09:47
Assid	hehe	09:47
Amaranth	just use totem, better anyway	09:47
Assid	err.. i prefer vlc.. has better deinterlacing and aspect ratio support	09:48
Assid	whjat do i do about this audio loop	09:48
Amaranth	restart pulseaudio	09:48
Assid	didnt help	09:48
Assid	terminals are crashing	09:48
Amaranth	ok...	09:48
Amaranth	you've got big problems	09:49
Assid	told you.. i can kill any box	09:49
Amaranth	sounds like a kernel bug or your memory is bad	09:49
Assid	memory is perfect.. checked it	09:49
Assid	and this only happens when ia m screwring with audio	09:49
Assid	brb gonna try restarting x	09:49
cooldevices	how to disable&uninstall pulseaudio? my games dont run or i have no sound after forcing it	09:51
Assid	Amaranth: had to restart :(	09:53
Assid	moved it back to alsa till pulse audio works better with vlc	09:54
Wander_w	use mplayer?	10:03
Assid	okay try this.. have compiz running, enable the scale plugin and bind it to a corner of the screen to show all windows (window picker). now alt tab	10:04
Assid	Wander_w: ?	10:04
Wander_w	never mind	10:04
sobersabre	hi guys	10:08
sobersabre	I am trying to use kubuntu on amd64	10:08
sobersabre	and I've opened up dolphin, and tried to "add a network folder"	10:09
sobersabre	then I get the error:	10:09
sobersabre	KDEInit could not launch '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach'.	10:09
sobersabre	I've tried to locate this file, and it's not there.	10:09
sobersabre	what package is this knetattach part of ?	10:10
sobersabre	I tried to apt-cache search for it, and ... no avail.	10:10
sobersabre	so, shall I have a bug report on missing file ?	10:12
sobersabre	or is it a known issue ?	10:12
Assid	!bugs	10:14
ubotu	If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu - Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots	10:14
void^	!find /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach	10:15
ubotu	Package/file /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach does not exist in hardy	10:16
sobersabre	void^: :)	10:16
sobersabre	it must be a part of base or network.	10:16
void^	!file /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach	10:16
void^	thought there was a way to search in packages..	10:17
HetaUma	is alpha 5 released?	10:17
Wander_w	not that i know	10:17
henkjan	its not on the mirrors yet	10:25
Amaranth	The only knetattach I have on my system is in kdebase-bin	10:26
sobersabre	Amaranth: do you think if I use kdebase-bin's netattach it would work ?	10:39
sobersabre	:)	10:39
Amaranth	almost certainly not	10:39
Assid	bah jabbers messing my brains on this other box	10:40
sobersabre	Amaranth: you were right.	10:50
Assid	hrmm my laptops brightness is still wonky	10:53
Assid	goes up and down like a yoyo	10:53
cooldevices	how to register on jabber.org? i can't find a "signup" button :/	10:54
utopia	join #n3rd.tv	10:54
Assid	saywhat ?	10:56
muszek	cooldevices: I think you register via a jabber client	10:59
cooldevices	...	11:00
muszek	cooldevices: yeah, I checked in pidgin just now	11:01
compwiz18_	cooldevices: go the pidgin account setup screen and there should be a register option of some sort	11:01
muszek	cooldevices: accounts -> add/edit -> add -> choose "xmpp" -> check "create this new account on the server"	11:02
cooldevices	yeah i found it thanks... kind of unnatural for me	11:02
muszek	I had exactly the same problem - been looking on jabber.org for a "sign up" page for couple minutes	11:02
Assid	kopete+compiz = evil!!	11:03
Assid	it crashes x	11:03
muszek	why was alpha 5 postponed?	11:04
cooldevices	almost all conference.jabber.org rooms are empty... and you cannot sort them by members count	11:10
cooldevices	it take about 30 seconds to retrieve info on user	11:14
muszek	you might have more luck raising these issues on jabber channels	11:15
cooldevices	ok	11:15
paulr	henkjan: is it available on some mirror?	11:35
shirish	does anybody how can I have a listing so it recursively goes to each folder & lists what's inside them as well.	11:44
Unksi	ls -r?	11:44
shirish	I tried "ll -rh" but that didn't get me anything.	11:44
shirish	Unksi: even that doesn't work.	11:45
Unksi	sorry, it was big R	11:45
Unksi	so ls -R	11:45
shirish	Unksi: its ls -r * that gives the desired output.	11:46
Unksi	ok	11:47
Wander_w	or find .	11:49
capiira	ohh still no A5 :)	11:54
Wander_w	no new toys to play with in the weekend :(	11:57
capiira	i hope they release it soon	11:58
capiira	maybe in few hours or so	11:58
Unksi	it is released	11:58
Unksi	when it is ready	11:58
Unksi	;)	11:58
capiira	buhhhh	11:58
capiira	but it comes through the synaptic update anyway or not ?	12:03
Wander_w	Unksi: Ah, the same time as DNF then?	12:04
* heret1c arrives		12:04
Unksi	Wander_w: yes ;)	12:05
Wander_w	great!	12:06
Wander_w	I'll tell hell to expect colder temperatures soon.	12:06
capiira	ok I can't wait anymore i'm going to dl A4, /me is impatient :D	12:08
* Unksi guesses that capiira notices that A5 is released when A4 is at 99%		12:11
Unksi	thats what usually happens to me if i happen to choose that path :D	12:12
capiira	:)	12:12
capiira	in 10 min ?	12:12
capiira	:D	12:12
Unksi	nice connection :)	12:12
capiira	heh normal dsl	12:13
capiira	anyway does ubuntu usually upgrade minor app versions like gnome 2.20.0 to 2.20.3 after release?	12:22
muszek	currently gutsy has 2.20.1	12:25
capiira	ah ok hmmmmmm	12:25
muszek	packages.ubuntu.com might be helpful	12:26
capiira	oh yeah thanks	12:26
capiira	actually i'm running ubuntus father :)	12:26
capiira	eeek gimp rc3 on gutsy	12:28
rsk	mark shuttleworth?	12:28
rsk	:)	12:28
capiira	:)	12:28
ConstyXIV	anyone else having trouble with WPA2 networks?	12:29
heret1c	'morning doc.	12:45
Assid	waddup	12:45
Dr_willis	Moo! :0	12:46
* heret1c reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/* with interest		12:46
* Assid goes back to trying to get ejabberd to work		12:46
heret1c	assid> sirian motherships galore? 8)	12:46
heret1c	is there any point to having laptop-mode-tools active when running on AC?	12:57
Dr_willis	less heat?	13:00
Pici	Less power consumption?	13:01
heret1c	h'm. whay is most wearing for a hd, hest of frequent spinup/downs?	13:01
heret1c	pici> power consumption isn't an issue. :)	13:02
heret1c	that is: heat or frequent...	13:02
* heret1c is aghast that the kde team haven't sorted out the "newly installed programs fail to show up in K-menu" issue/bug -YET.		13:05
Dr_willis	heret1c, from the forums i read.. i doubt if it matters much. :) its proberly best to reduce both.	13:05
heret1c	amateurish, imo.	13:05
Pici	File a bug	13:05
Dr_willis	better yet. submit a patch	13:05
Dr_willis	:)	13:05
heret1c	doc> zapped my hd (apparently)	13:06
reya276	quick question, how can I load the CLI instead of the GUI, because my video drivers are not working so I can't login to the system	13:06
Dr_willis	heret1c, ive seen hd takes years of abuse.. and seen new ones die in 3 days... :)	13:06
Dr_willis	reya276, disable th kdm/gdm service - or stop them from the console. is a fast way to get toit.	13:07
heret1c	doc> oh ah. probably true.	13:07
ConstyXIV	anyone else having trouble with WPA2 networks?	13:08
reya276	ok how do I do that, because my screen is just a mess I can't see nothing	13:08
reya276	is there a key combination or something	13:08
Dr_willis	heret1c, i had a PS blow and take out 4 hds once.. :(	13:08
heret1c	doc> doesn't imply that the sw should be as nice to the hw as possible. disabling dma puts much strain on the cpu, which _certainly_ produces heat.	13:09
Dr_willis	alt-ctrl-f1 to get to the console	13:09
Dr_willis	The whole heat/power thing is gotten tobe the main limit these days. :) Its amazing how much heat these pc's make	13:09
Dr_willis	My feet are nice and toasty from my current pc.	13:09
heret1c	reya> try ctrl-alt-backspace (but quit the proframs on the taskbar 1st)	13:10
heret1c	(ctb kills x)	13:11
reya276	I can't see nothing on my screen, so I can't quit anything or do anything, for some reason it did not install the correct ATI drivers for my graphics card	13:11
heret1c	ah. so you're on another comp?	13:11
reya276	yes	13:12
heret1c	ctrl-alt-backspace, then.	13:12
reya276	I'm on my desktop and my laptop has Hardy Alpha	13:12
reya276	did that, the whole thing is just frozen	13:12
heret1c	h'm	13:12
heret1c	checksum the cd?	13:12
heret1c	s/cd/iso	13:13
Q-FUNK	hello! I'm just curious how to get my gnome settings back for switching keymaps. previously,I had this configured as ctrl+ctrl, but this no longer seems to work.	13:14
cooldevices	Q-FUNK: its broken, just recheck settings	13:14
Q-FUNK	cooldevices: recheck what?	13:16
Q-FUNK	if you mean the control panel option, it's gone	13:16
cooldevices	keyboard layout options? "both ctrl keys together change layout" its here for me	13:18
cooldevices	try clean install of alpha5	13:18
cooldevices	when its up	13:19
reya276	oh re-installing	13:19
cooldevices	if no one will up with better idea like reconfiguring applet, or editing xorg for manual keyb switching	13:20
roman_	is the alpha5 released?	13:21
cooldevices	actually gnome applet not the only wait to setup keyboard	13:21
cooldevices	way	13:21
cooldevices	Q-FUNK: man setxkbmap	13:26
heret1c	oh ah	13:33
heret1c	sbdy remind me - will it be possible to upgrade to HH release 1 from the alpha/beta versions?	13:36
Dr_willis	You should always be able to upgrade that way - i think	13:37
Dr_willis	Thats part of the apeal of the apt-get packing system :)	13:37
heret1c	I only have one box - the dell lappy. can't afford the sort of hurdle I just experienced.	13:37
Dr_willis	I dont thinki could function with just 1 pc. :)	13:38
Pici	!final	13:38
ubotu	If you installed a Alpha/Beta/RC version of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and have been keeping it up to date, then you are already running the latest version of Hardy. To make sure, type « sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade » in a console.	13:38
heret1c	readng lauchpad, the problem has a) addected quite a few ppl ad b) been known for quite some time.	13:38
heret1c	affected, even.	13:39
Assid	a5 out?	13:41
heret1c	ubotu> alpha5	13:42
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about alpha5 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	13:42
heret1c	ubotu> doodlysquat	13:43
ubotu	Sorry, I don't know anything about doodlysquat - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi	13:43
heret1c	yay.	13:43
Pici	!botabuse \| heret1c	13:44
ubotu	heret1c: Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Don't use commands in the public channels if you don't know if they really exist. Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids.	13:44
* heret1c sits corrected. sort of.		13:46
Assid	ahahaha. check this out	13:48
Assid	https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-power-manager/+bug/194347	13:48
ubotu	Launchpad bug 194347 in gnome-power-manager "[Hardy a4] Default wallpaper ugly" [Undecided,New]	13:48
Assid	now thats called a bug	13:48
heret1c	pici> slities in times of little conversation/a lullhould be a subparagraph yielding room for whmsicalities when traffic is slow, dontcha think? :)	13:49
Pici	Why is that in GPM?	13:49
rsk	Binary package hint: gnome-power-manager	13:49
rsk	:D	13:49
heret1c	erk	13:49
Pici	heret1c: Not when I see it on every #ubuntu channel. Anyway, its OT.	13:49
heret1c	pici> ok.	13:50
Assid	hahaha.. anyone here using "gossip" ?	13:51
Assid	go to edit > personal details .. edit the birthday section	13:51
Assid	and see the buttons there "gtk-cancel gtk-ok"	13:51
cooldevices	Assid: rofl lmfao	14:00
cooldevices	about bug	14:01
slytherin	Does anyone know how to listen to FM radio in rhythmbox?	14:02
Dr_willis	You got a fm tuner card?	14:02
Dr_willis	or are you refering to fm internet stations?	14:02
slytherin	Dr_willis: tuner card	14:02
Dr_willis	I dont recall seeing of the media players supporting those. But i havent had a FM tuner card in years. :)	14:03
Dr_willis	!find radio	14:03
* heret1c reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/110636 and has a revelaton (the &%¤"# kernel %#%¤#s Æknew*.		14:03
ubotu	Found: gkrellm-radio, gnomeradio, gnomoradio, gradio, hamradiomenus (and 14 others)	14:03
ubotu	Launchpad bug 110636 in linux-source-2.6.22 "hdparm - cannot set dma on IDE hard drive that works via pata" [Medium,Incomplete]	14:03
heret1c	medium!!!!!!!!	14:03
* Dr_willis considers it low.		14:04
Dr_willis	:)	14:04
slytherin	Dr_willis: There is a plugin in rhythmbox. It is available by default. Only thing is that plugin doesn't have any UI. You have to manually edit rhythmdb.xml	14:04
Dr_willis	slytherin, that would make it a bit harder.	14:04
Dr_willis	I just recall my FM tuner - dident tune in worth a $@ :)	14:05
heret1c	doc> tell taht to those in "3rd world" countries with old hw. :/	14:05
Dr_willis	heret1c, i will.	14:05
Dr_willis	heret1c, actually i find withmy old hardware its not an issue.	14:05
Dr_willis	normally its the newer stuff that has the issues	14:05
slytherin	With linux, old hardware is not generally an issue	14:05
rsk	no, the kernel runs on aynthing	14:06
rsk	but gnome is heavy :)	14:07
heret1c	look up mr. thorvalds' reason to write linux in the 1st place. 286es!	14:07
Dr_willis	its highly likely its a kernel bug. that the ubuntu guys dont have the manpower to work on.	14:07
Dr_willis	z80 rules!	14:07
heret1c	abacusses!	14:07
* Dr_willis whips out his huge SlideRule!		14:08
ConstyXIV	is anyone using the atheros 5007 (eee wireless) madwifi driver in hardy?	14:09
slytherin	Dr_willis: http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2007/05/04/fm-radio-in-rhythmbox/	14:10
Dr_willis	i aint about to dig out my 10+ yr old fm tuner card to test it. :)	14:11
Wander_w	heret1c: 386es, he wanted to use the new 32bit capabilities of that processor	14:11
Dr_willis	heh heh.	14:11
heret1c	wander_w> righty. think my point is made.	14:12
slytherin	anyway, I will install the sweet little app called gnomeradio	14:12
Wander_w	But you'd have a _very_ hard time getting a recent kernel to run on a 386	14:13
* heret1c observes that a modern desktop background piccy would take 50% pf available RAM		14:13
Wander_w	(I know, I've tried!)	14:13
cooldevices	my driver dosnt detect radio device on my tv tuner	14:14
Wander_w	2 MB of RAM is just a bit of a squeeze for linux (it worked when I removed all the filesystems and all the IDE drivers... it was a bit useless in that state though..)	14:15
heret1c	arrrgh. the attitude displayed by developers in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/110636 is DESPICABLE. Roman-emperor-style modus operandi.	14:18
ubotu	Launchpad bug 110636 in linux-source-2.6.22 "hdparm - cannot set dma on IDE hard drive that works via pata" [Medium,Incomplete]	14:18
ccooke	heret1c: ... That's a good example of a bug with very confused reporters	14:34
ccooke	heret1c: I see one comment from a developer that was a bit short, which was apologised for and expanded later	14:34
ccooke	the rest of it seems to be people who don't understand the issue assuming that the bug affects them	14:35
heret1c	ccooke> think so? are the developers helpgul in asking for info they need? do they ALL have scsi-disks (the dev.s) so the problem is irrelevant to them?!	14:36
heret1c	< 4MB/s transferrate is nott an assumption. (!)	14:36
ccooke	heret1c: the devs stated exactly why it was too late to fix in feisty, said they wanted to fix it in gutsy and asked for the relevant data that would help them fix it.	14:37
ConstyXIV	is there some sort of RSS feed/mailing list for alpha/beta releases?	14:38
ccooke	(also: it's not EVERY pata disk, you know. I run two machines at home that have pata disks - one a media server - and they're fine on both gutsy and feisty.	14:38
heret1c	ccooke> I've a dell latitude D500 with a bof standard intel chipset.	14:39
ccooke	heret1c: After the dev request for gutsy data, you get people saying "here's some feisty data!" and "I'm affected to, my drive won't enable DMA <fx: includes paste of hdparm output showing that the drive is in udma2 mode>"	14:39
heret1c	hdparm -Tt is hdparm -Tt.	14:40
cooldevices	heret1c: youre talking about your issue for some days here, did you filed a bug?	14:41
heret1c	ccooke> mind u, I "upgraded" to HH alpha 4 yaking for granted the problem would be sorted out by then. result: fried HD.	14:41
fursund	hello	14:41
heret1c	cooldev> pointless.	14:42
ccooke	heret1c: you installed an alpha. That's an unfortunate but not surprising effect.	14:42
fursund	am I the only one experiencing problems with wine? it segfaults everytime I run an exe or even winecfg	14:42
ccooke	heret1c: more to the point... what's the output of hdparm -i /dev/sda (or whatever your drive is?)	14:42
heret1c	ccooke> look up. hd's toast/fubar.	14:43
ccooke	heret1c: hdparm -Tt tells you the speed of reading. No matter the results, it does NOT tell you that you have the bug as reported.	14:43
ccooke	... hardware failure?	14:43
ccooke	Okay, that won't be hardy.	14:43
ccooke	It's much, much more likely that your drive was already on the way out	14:43
nonnii	could someone who can log in to launchpad go and comment to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/48497 that they should not depend on both bitstream vera AND dejavu but one or the other. If you have to install dejavu, isn't it needless to install bitstream vera also?	14:44
ubotu	Launchpad bug 48497 in mplayer "using bitsream vera causes incorrect subtitles for many languages" [Medium,Fix released]	14:44
heret1c	not so. abysmally low transfer rates are caused by disabled dmain most cases.	14:44
cooldevices	(07:42:07 PM) heret1c: cooldev> pointless. --- do you think what you doing now here for some days have a more point than filing a bug?	14:45
ccooke	heret1c: what you're saying is: "My disk was slow, so there's no way that the fact that it later catastrophically failed could be rekated"	14:45
heret1c	cooldev> seeing umpteen ppl have reported it and nothing have been done - why should I waste my time with filing bug reports which will be ignored? hence; pointless.	14:46
heret1c	bbl. out to buy new hd.	14:47
ccooke	heret1c: now, I wasn't actually suggesting that slow disk IO was a sign of the disk dying - even though that IS a common side effect. However, I've not seen a Linux kernel actually destroy a hard disk in around ten years.	14:47
ccooke	heret1c: that bug report was not ignored	14:47
cooldevices	heret1c: bug is not closed yet, and as ccooke said it is becuase devs required data, YOU may provide this data	14:47
fursund	no one have the wine problem :(	14:48
fursund	?	14:48
* ccooke posts to the bug report to help clarify things		14:48
flipstar	fursund: you might try an older wine version ..	14:48
Wander_w	fursund: use plenty of water on the winestains	14:48
ccooke	... Drat. work firefox. Now I'll have to remember my password :-)	14:49
fursund	flipstar, how would I do that?	14:49
flipstar	just download it from winehq	14:49
flipstar	im using 0.9.52	14:49
cooldevices	!ot \| Wander_w	14:49
ubotu	Wander_w: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!	14:49
fursund	ok thanks!	14:50
Wander_w	cooldevices: ok ok; so when is Alpha 5 coming out?	14:52
cooldevices	today!	14:52
Wander_w	why not yesterday?	14:52
flipstar	was delayed	14:52
Wander_w	why?	14:52
Wander_w	(honest question, I want to know)	14:53
cooldevices	some problems should be fixed to make it nice alpha 5!	14:53
flipstar	"we anticipate that the Alpha 5 release will be delayed until Friday, February	14:54
flipstar	22 to allow time for the ISO images to be tested appropriately."	14:54
ccooke	quick check: I'm currently absolutely certain that the DMA bug heret1c is complaining of cannot be fixed for Gutsy - the information is too late.	14:54
Wander_w	where do the devs hang out then?	14:54
ccooke	Anyone want to correct me on that?	14:54
fursund	thanks flipstar it is working now	15:11
fursund	strangely it is working fine with the newest version from winehq	15:11
ConstyXIV	is WPA2 broken right now?	15:26
DanaG	Heh: PackageKit allows to perform simple software management tasks over a DBus interface: refreshing the cash, updating, installing and removing software packages. This software is still in an early development stage and should be considered experimental.	15:26
Pici	I wish someone would update my cash.	15:27
DanaG	You got what I was saying 'heh' about.	15:29
DanaG	Heh.	15:29
paulr	flipstar: where did you read that?	15:31
flipstar	mailing list	15:32
paulr	I chose 'yesterday' as a day to move from gentoo to ubuntu ;p	15:33
paulr	doh :)	15:33
paulr	when using the installer for a new server install, is it possible to choose packages at install time? (or just the overall 'tasks' then tweak later)	15:35
heret1c	back	15:42
* heret1c reads backlog		15:42
paulr	mm, if alpha5 were to get released today, what time would it normally hit mirrors? ;p	15:48
heret1c	cooldev> I'll provide the data if u pay for rmf-reading the hd.	15:48
=== hit is now known as h1t
flipstar	paulr: torrent is probably faster for the first time	15:49
paulr	I downloaded server cd of alpha 4 yesterday, having found it error'd during install and need to install again, i'm thinking about whether to just use the desktop cd ;p	15:51
paulr	feels kinda harsh on mirrors to download 2 cd's then download an upgrade in the space of 4 hours ;p	15:51
h3sp4wn_	They should provide xdelta's perhaps someone does	16:02
Assid	you guys using emerald bychance?	16:02
h3sp4wn_	I am not using anything other than cli atm - wondering if there is a sane method for using firefox 32 bit with ubuntu64 yet	16:03
emet	I'm worried about Firefox	16:03
h3sp4wn_	Why ?	16:03
emet	it looks like it will release an RC, Mid-March, does that mean the Firefox coming with Hardy will be an RC?	16:04
h3sp4wn_	Dunno they will be 300MB+ of updates within a month anyway	16:04
h3sp4wn_	(Or ideally they will extend the release to June)	16:04
emet	just for firefox? :o	16:05
h3sp4wn_	Dunno they did with dapper	16:05
* hydrogen has yet to understand the firefox hype		16:05
emet	yes that's because multiple systems in dapper weren't ready yet	16:05
emet	dapper was a huge update	16:05
emet	imo much bigger then hardy will be	16:05
h3sp4wn_	No but quality control is important	16:05
h3sp4wn_	(If an LTS wants to be on the same level as RHEL or Solaris)	16:06
emet	well they could release a 8.04 with firefox RC and an 8.04.1 with firefox final or something	16:06
ffm	any idea how I can check for incompatability with graphics cards? I cannot find the testing release notes...	16:06
h3sp4wn_	What is wrong with actually having a working release	16:06
emet	I don't think it's right to delay a release over one application	16:07
h3sp4wn_	I think 8 months is a more sane time limit for a higher quality release	16:07
Assid	hrmm thinking if i should start using emarald again	16:07
emet	true	16:07
emet	OOo 2.4 might be ready by then too	16:08
h3sp4wn_	But the latest and greatest of everything is not necessarily a road to stability	16:08
emet	imo releasing hardy with firefox 2 would be pretty lame	16:09
h3sp4wn_	It wouldn't bother me really - I use firefox but I think konqueror 4 is about the best	16:10
emet	I would rather they bundle Firefox 3 RC1 if they had to	16:10
h3sp4wn_	just don't like the messing with 2 releases - dunno why kde4 can not just conflict with kde3	16:10
emet	actually gutsy bundled The GIMP 2.4 RC	16:10
emet	and some update actually changed it to The GIMP 2.4 proper	16:10
emet	after release	16:10
h3sp4wn_	And what if that changed some interfaces	16:11
emet	an RC shouldn't do that	16:11
h3sp4wn_	That is exactly the stuff people shouldn't do with a stable release	16:11
emet	RC is near-final release	16:11
h3sp4wn_	Theoretically - should be manually updated without changing the version number	16:11
h3sp4wn_	and checking no interfaces change	16:11
emet	yes	16:13
Mark_Milliman	So what's the story with Alpha 5?	16:14
emet	suppose to come out today	16:15
h3sp4wn_	RHEL might not be as pleasant to use but the fact they still support RHEL3 (and fix stuff that is broken properly) is why people use it	16:15
emet	do they really? I thought they dropped support for RHEL3	16:15
ffm	Are there any testing release notes yet?	16:15
emet	yes	16:16
emet	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5	16:16
ffm	emet: thank you.	16:17
emet	the big feature this alpha is the windows installer	16:17
mrcheeks	Hello guys, I have a terrible issue with hardy I guess :p, I am unable to login. I think it's a bash issue	16:17
mrcheeks	After a sudo apt-get upgrade I started experiencing that error	16:18
h3sp4wn_	emet: 7 years per release (and it was released in 2003 so that is until 2010)	16:18
reya276	emet: windows installer?	16:18
reya276	huh	16:18
emet	reya276, yeah did you ever try to put in an ubuntu disc on a windows machine?	16:19
emet	reya276, now when you do it pops up a windows installer that lets you install ubuntu from within windows	16:20
paulr	btw, is LTSP install broken in alpha 4?	16:20
h3sp4wn_	So more importantly does the new unreal tournament game still have a Linux installer in the box ?	16:20
mrcheeks	Anyone experiencing the same issue I have? I can't log in from a terminal or gdm	16:21
reya276	ooh, that does not sound good, but I hope they get that to work well, I would never try it though, Why use windows if you are using Ubuntu	16:21
mikedep333	h3sp4wn_: no, I think they still haven't released it yet	16:22
mikedep333	or of they did, it's a separate download	16:23
ignus	hi, can anyone here tell me how to upgrade kubuntu to 8.04 alpha?	16:23
h3sp4wn_	mikedep333: Thats annoying - I bought all those games because they supported Linux properly	16:23
mikedep333	ignus: I think it is update-manager -d in regular ubuntu	16:23
mikedep333	maybe you can install the package update-manager or whatever	16:24
mikedep333	even though it is GTK	16:24
heret1c	ignus> from?	16:24
ignus	mikedep333: doesnt seem to work the same in kubuntu	16:24
ignus	heret1c: kubuntu 7.10	16:24
mikedep333	isn't there the dist-upgrade command or something?	16:24
ignus	yeah	16:24
mikedep333	h3sp4wn_: yeah, I know	16:24
ignus	i think so	16:24
ignus	donno what it is	16:24
h3sp4wn_	I would use aptitude	16:24
ignus	do you know what the command is?	16:25
h3sp4wn_	change sources.list first	16:25
mikedep333	yeah	16:25
h3sp4wn_	s/gutsy/hardy	16:25
ignus	just switch the word in all the lines?	16:25
h3sp4wn_	install aptitude from hardy	16:25
h3sp4wn_	ignus: yep	16:25
mikedep333	ignus: just making sure, but you know it is not a good idea to use hardy alpha as your primary OS, right?	16:26
h3sp4wn_	aptitude update && aptitude install aptitude && aptitude full-upgrade	16:26
ignus	is there a way to do that with sed? :P	16:26
h3sp4wn_	ignus: man sed (I have given you most of it)	16:26
ignus	mikedep333: tihs is just a test box :)	16:26
leon_pegg	is hardy going to have apt-torrent ?	16:26
mikedep333	ok, good :)	16:26
mikedep333	leon_pegg: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=apt-torrent&searchon=names&suite=hardy&section=all	16:27
mikedep333	doesn't look like it	16:28
leon_pegg	thanks mike	16:28
mikedep333	np	16:28
h3sp4wn_	ignus: sudo perl -pi.bak -e 's/gutsy/hardy/i' /etc/apt/sources.list	16:28
Assid	err.. whats this guy running on the right side ?http://gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/73210-2.jpg	16:28
h3sp4wn_	(I don't ever use sed)	16:28
ignus	that you all for your help!	16:29
mikedep333	np	16:29
ignus	kubuntu 8.04 still uses kde3 as its default yeah?	16:30
h3sp4wn_	Yep you can have kde4 though	16:30
h3sp4wn_	But it doesn't seem quite right yet for me yet	16:30
ignus	yeah	16:31
cooldevices	there is 2 kubuntu versions	16:31
leon_pegg	just noticed it does have debtorrent tho	16:31
ignus	250 megs to d/l!!!	16:31
h3sp4wn_	cooldevices: There has been that hackery before at one point	16:31
cooldevices	http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ here you can see kubuntu and kubuntu-kde4	16:33
h3sp4wn_	Interesting - I wonder if its less messed up if I use the kde4 cd	16:34
leon_pegg	h3sp no kde4 cd is just as bad	16:36
mikedep333	h3sp4wn_: yeah, KDE4 on gutsy is horrendous	16:36
mikedep333	whether you use the CD or the PPA repo	16:36
h3sp4wn_	Is there a distro with a reasonably decent kde4 then	16:37
h3sp4wn_	suse ? fedora ?	16:37
mikedep333	I doubt there is	16:38
cooldevices	its not distro problem lol	16:38
hydrogen	suse puts a lot of energy into it and theirs works fairly nicely	16:38
h3sp4wn_	Its pretty nice on my sparc	16:38
hydrogen	but you have to use suse...	16:38
hydrogen	eww	16:38
h3sp4wn_	(With solaris express)	16:38
hydrogen	it's working fine for me here	16:38
h3sp4wn_	and a boatload of patches - but there is no kde 3 to get in the way	16:38
hydrogen	but fine for me involves the random crash :)	16:38
cooldevices	i tried opensuse 11 a2 installer, it segfaults on start :/	16:39
cooldevices	(09:38:53 PM) hydrogen: but fine for me involves the random crash :) - LOL	16:40
mikedep333	it makes windows users feel at home	16:40
h3sp4wn_	Can I have a 32 bit firefox yet with ubunty 64	16:40
cooldevices	yes	16:40
h3sp4wn_	from the repos and no messing around	16:41
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
cooldevices	h3sp4wn_: tutorials look like hackage involved	16:48
ffm	will ubuntu hardy be kept in sync with the trunk FF builds?	16:48
ffm	until release?	16:48
cooldevices	it have now 3.0b3, and on fedora i seen 3.0b4pre week ago, does it answer your question?	16:49
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Laney	Erm, is anyone else having a problem with firefox having huge icons and text? http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/firefox-huge.png	17:12
manchicken	Is wine known to be crashing under Hardy?	17:13
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
flipstar	manchicken: yep i heard so	17:17
flipstar	manchicken: you could try to download an newer/older version of wine from wineh	17:17
flipstar	*winehq	17:17
Kuni	has anyone here tried the "install in windows" option?	17:20
Fritzel	has a package for wine 0.9.56 been released at this point in time?	17:24
Fritzel	I'd check myself but I'm in windows at the moment	17:24
Kuni	fritzel: not that I know of, but I'm not exactly an expert, so...	17:27
Fritzel	fair enough	17:28
Kuni	I did check proposed and backports, too, nothing there	17:28
manchicken	Kuni: What now? Install in Windows? I don't have Windows...	17:29
Fritzel	alright thank you, it's been released on wine's site I'm tempted to compile it but I don't know how that affects package management, as once it's released for ubuntu I would much prefer to work with the package	17:30
Kuni	Apparently the alpha 5 disc can install and in windows using wubi	17:30
Kuni	*and run in	17:30
Kuni	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5	17:30
Kuni	unfortunately the link to the iso is dead	17:30
Fritzel	4 was released?	17:30
Fritzel	5?	17:30
Kuni	today, supposedly	17:31
Fritzel	-nod- I'd be really curious how well that is handled as well	17:31
Kuni	I was hoping to try it, but like I said, isos are either not up or not visible.	17:31
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Kuni	also, does anyone know if the awn-core-applets are going to make it into the repos? I know awn itself has.	17:32
rockets	is alpha 5 actually coming today?	17:35
=== mphill_ is now known as mphill
Kuni	well, the page is up, and it was supposed to come yesterday.	17:35
Kuni	so far I haven't gotten any dramatic updates through update manager, though I don't know if that would be normal or if they come gradually (I'm on Alpha 4)?	17:36
mphill	well the did do the feature freeze so i think packages come in slower now	17:36
rockets	what page is up?	17:37
Kuni	rockets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5	17:37
rockets	Kuni,	17:37
rockets	ah	17:37
Kuni	:)	17:38
rockets	Kuni, ok, usually they update the HardyReleaseSchedule page with a link	17:38
rockets	but they didn't.	17:38
Kuni	ah	17:39
rockets	Kuni, the download links go nowhere.	17:39
rockets	guess ill have to wait.	17:39
Kuni	yeah, I know, sucks doesn't it?	17:39
Kuni	rockets, they do have the link on the main hardy page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/	17:39
rockets	Kuni, the download links go nowhere.	17:40
Kuni	yeah	17:40
Kuni	the directory isn't even there yet.	17:40
rockets	wait, theyre not actually going to leave firefox 3 beta 3 as the default browser are they?	17:41
rockets	tell me thats just for alpha 5	17:41
wastrel	i need to update my hardy	17:41
rockets	because its not like they havent done similar things in the past, e.g using gaim betas as the final version, or gimp release candidates as the final version for a release	17:41
Kuni	rockets: I hope so, I'm loving beta 3	17:41
rockets	Kuni, i love it too. but it breaks some things	17:41
wastrel	beta 3 is iffy	17:41
wastrel	yeah	17:41
rockets	firefox 3 is fantastic but its not ready yet	17:41
wastrel	also, the history search is breaky	17:42
Kuni	good point	17:42
rockets	e.g. my google reader broke randomly the other day	17:42
Kuni	well, I'm sure they'll decide by release candidate whether to include it or not.	17:42
rockets	also, in gmail, the contacts interface on the left side of the inbox looks funky	17:42
Kuni	personally, I hope firefox is ready by then.	17:42
rockets	Kuni, yeah	17:42
rockets	also windows live mail doesnt work in firefox beta 3, only the old interface works	17:42
Kuni	huh	17:43
rockets	windows live mail = new hotmail	17:43
Kuni	ms exchange works fine	17:43
rockets	dude	17:43
rockets	who said anything about exchange	17:43
rockets	windows live mail is microsofts web-based mail	17:43
Kuni	lol my school uses it.	17:43
Kuni	so is exchange	17:43
rockets	no it isnt . . .	17:43
h3sp4wn_	exchange is pretty good if you use outlook	17:43
rockets	exchange is their mail server which happens to have a web interface	17:43
rockets	im talking about web-based mail ANYBODY can use	17:44
rockets	like gmail or yahoo	17:44
h3sp4wn_	(for booking rooms and stuff like that)	17:44
Kuni	sorry	17:44
rockets	h3sp4wn_, exchange has great functionality, but poor reliability	17:44
h3sp4wn_	and seeing other peoples schedules	17:44
Kuni	yeah, my school does a poor job naming things	17:44
Kuni	I meant the outlook web access light client.	17:44
rockets	Kuni, i actually like the "heavy" client much better	17:44
rockets	the outlook light client looks like its from 1995	17:45
h3sp4wn_	rockets: If its managed properly it can be reliable dunno what that entails though never worked in that area	17:45
Kuni	well, the heavy client didn't work in firefox 2 (unless with tweaking)	17:45
rockets	h3sp4wn_, i have. and yes, if its managed properly, do you know HOW MUCH WORK that is?	17:45
Kuni	lol	17:45
rockets	ugh	17:45
wastrel	we need shared calendaring at my job	17:46
rockets	hardy alpha 5 comes with transmission	17:46
h3sp4wn_	rockets: I can guess probably less than me managing smtp and e-mail for a few million users	17:46
rockets	i wish it came with deluge, but i guess transmission is better for regular people	17:46
wastrel	no decent solution for oss.	17:46
Kuni	rockets: it's a far sight better than the gnome bittorrent client in gutsy.	17:46
h3sp4wn_	s/e-mail/pop	17:46
rockets	Kuni, yeah, well it allows multiple downloads. but i like deluge a lot more.	17:46
Kuni	rockets: so sudo apt-get install deluge	17:47
rockets	but ill agree that transmission is better for non-geeks then deluge is	17:47
Kuni	:)	17:47
Kuni	very true.	17:47
rockets	Kuni, i download it from their site actually :-P	17:47
rockets	they provide updated ubuntu packages	17:47
Kuni	cool	17:47
Kuni	well, either way then	17:47
rockets	honestly the one thing i cant wait to test	17:48
rockets	is b43	17:48
h3sp4wn_	Don't hold your breath	17:48
rockets	i have a broadcom wifi card, and ive used both ndiswrapper and bcm43xx	17:48
rockets	and both are total shit for broadcom	17:48
Kuni	I was happy to see the inclusion of transmission, since if you -want- to get technical with it, you can, but on the surface it's nice and simple for those who don't understand the torrent system.	17:48
rockets	Kuni, as I said I agree that transmission is the best choice, considering ubuntu's goal	17:49
h3sp4wn_	What is wrong with azureus	17:49
Kuni	rockets: I know, I'm not trying to disagree with you.	17:49
rockets	i just like deluge because its µTorrent-like	17:49
rockets	h3sp4wn_, its a peice of shit thats what.	17:49
h3sp4wn_	(I know it hammers system resources)	17:49
jussi01	!ohmy \| rockets	17:49
ubotu	rockets: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.	17:49
rockets	sorry	17:49
h3sp4wn_	But it just works	17:49
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: don't get me started. it's a memory hog, it's slow	17:49
rockets	h3sp4wn_, so does deluge. and it doesnt hammer system resources	17:49
rockets	so does transmission, and it doesnt hammer system resources	17:50
Kuni	so does transmission, ktorrent, deluge...but none of those are java-based and heavy.	17:50
h3sp4wn_	even with dht and all that jazz I don't use torrents ever really	17:50
h3sp4wn_	or very rarely and when I do I just use my etch xen vps	17:50
mphill	is java working in hardy yet?	17:50
rockets	h3sp4wn_, well sir, obviously you are not a pirate :-P	17:50
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: I will admit, the new azureus has a very nice looking interface. ;)	17:50
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: I used it for quite a while on windows, until I discovered uTorrent.	17:51
rockets	Kuni, h3sp4wn_ i did too. azureus actually was the most popular client for a long time	17:51
mhollisjr	what's the name of the automatic package updater?	17:51
rockets	mhollisjr, zomgnewpackages!	17:51
mhollisjr	><	17:51
rockets	lol	17:51
rockets	mhollisjr, update-manager	17:52
Kuni	mhollisjr: update-manager ?	17:52
mhollisjr	nevermind it kicked in on it's own	17:52
mhollisjr	ty	17:52
Kuni	lol	17:52
rockets	mhollisjr, you can aalways go to system -> i forget -> updates	17:52
rockets	or update manager	17:52
rockets	you guys know the bit-torrent protocol is being closed	17:53
Kuni	system > administration > update manager	17:53
mhollisjr	how do you close a protocol? >< expecially one like bit torrent	17:53
rockets	theyre going to start selling licenses to work with the new protocol	17:53
rockets	mhollisjr, updates to it will not be made public	17:53
Kuni	when? cause I know tpb is working on a new protocol, which would be backward compatible	17:53
rockets	the original protocol, yeah thats open	17:53
rockets	Kuni, i heard that too	17:53
h3sp4wn_	It doesn't matter though - Think of what napster once was and what it is now	17:53
rockets	huh?	17:54
rockets	now napster is a music-buying service	17:54
rockets	i dont get your point	17:54
mhollisjr	you can't kill p2p	17:54
rockets	ah	17:54
mhollisjr	once it's there, its there	17:54
rockets	indeed.	17:54
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: difference is that torrenting isn't centralized. You can't just shut it down like napster.	17:54
rockets	oh no no	17:54
rockets	i wasnt saying i thought it was going to stop torrenting	17:54
rockets	i just think its lame that they wont openly release the new features of the protocol	17:54
Kuni	oh.	17:55
rockets	if you ask me	17:55
rockets	the torrent protocol is pretty damn good already	17:55
Kuni	well, the company BitTorrent has been so crappy over the past several years that I don't really care.	17:55
h3sp4wn_	rockets: It doesn't matter what it is now (thats the only point)	17:55
rockets	even if the torrent protocol was never updated again, i think itd work pretty damn well	17:55
rockets	until we all switch over to ipv6	17:55
h3sp4wn_	No one will care about the new features etc	17:55
h3sp4wn_	Do you think that will ever happen ? I used ipv6 for a while in 2001	17:56
Kuni	rockets: true, but it's slow, pretty insecure, and could work a lot better. That's where tpb's new ".p2p" system will come into play. :)	17:56
mhollisjr	hmm ok that's odd	17:56
rockets	Kuni, its damn fast for me	17:56
rockets	h3sp4wn_, i think itll happen wwhen we actually run out of public IPs	17:57
rockets	we wont have a choice	17:57
mhollisjr	fusion-icon crashes X, so does compiz, worked yesterday though	17:57
h3sp4wn_	rockets: There could be an alternative that hasn't been considered yet - I like ipv6 I don't think alot of people do though	17:57
dholbach	MOTU Q&A Session in #ubuntu-classroom in a bit	17:58
h3sp4wn_	The mobile ipv6 is particularly interesting	17:58
rockets	h3sp4wn_, i hate the way the IP addresses are super complex	17:58
Kuni	rockets: well, if I'm getting my files from a good tracker or a really well-seeded torrent it's fast. Heck, I was averaging 24 megabits per second on a torrent last night (from supertorrents.org). But on less known or less seeded trackers and torrents, it can really be slow.	17:58
mhollisjr	MOTU? sorry I'm not familiar with that one	17:58
rockets	mhollisjr, MASTERS OF THE MO-FING UNIVERSE	17:58
rockets	and im not joking	17:58
mhollisjr	ahh ><	17:58
rockets	thats what it means.	17:58
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
Kuni	and I'm not even joking about that 24 megabits thing. My schools internet is friggin amazing.	18:01
rockets	Kuni, i was at a client the other day who had OOL-Boost	18:02
rockets	50 megabits down	18:02
mhollisjr	0.9.56 wine is published for gutsy, how compatible would that be with hardy?	18:02
rockets	mhollisjr, it never hurts to try something. oh wait . . .	18:03
mhollisjr	well that's why I asked ^^	18:03
Kuni	rockets: nice. my school's got a 10 gigabit down speed overall, actually, but since there're so many people on the network, we rarely clock over 25 mbps down	18:04
ffm	Kuni: I get 15mbits down at my residential.	18:04
Kuni	ffm: niiiiiiice	18:04
rockets	Kuni, damn you and your OC- connection	18:04
rockets	ffm, 50 megabits is on a residential cable modem actually, they just happend to use it for their business	18:05
Kuni	ffm: at home I'm lucky to get 768kbps down.	18:05
ffm	Kuni: FIOS.	18:05
rockets	Kuni, do you live in australia?	18:05
ffm	rockets: omg.	18:05
Kuni	rockets: nope. USA	18:05
rockets	ffm, optimum online boost man. its crazy	18:05
rockets	Kuni, where? rural area?	18:05
ffm	rockets: cable is a cabal in the USA.	18:05
Kuni	well	18:06
Kuni	no	18:06
Kuni	my home is actually in a mid-sized city (Grand Rapids, MI), but we've got 1 megabit dsl	18:06
rockets	Kuni, oh. so upgrade your dsl!	18:06
Kuni	rockets: $$$	18:07
rockets	$$$ . . .	18:07
rockets	verizon dsl is $30/m for 3 megabits	18:07
rockets	i have that at home and im plenty happy with it	18:07
Kuni	yeah, the one we have is like $12/m for the first three months and then like $20/m after that	18:08
Kuni	We used to use cable, which I loved.	18:08
rockets	Kuni, so . . .	18:08
Kuni	rockets: cable was like $40/m	18:09
Kuni	my family's living off of pastor-married-to-preschool-director wages. Not exactly a lot.	18:10
rockets	Kuni, heh	18:11
rockets	wait	18:11
rockets	pastor	18:11
rockets	cant you just take advantage of your church?	18:11
rockets	:-P	18:11
* ffm is eyeing the 25up/down plan of verizon, just 65USD/month.		18:11
ffm	s/65/78/	18:12
rockets	ffm, I wish. there's no fios in NYC yet, except for staten island	18:12
Kuni	rockets: "The Lord declares that your pastor needs better internet speed!" doesn't usually go over very well.	18:12
rockets	Kuni, who said anything about doing it honestly	18:13
Kuni	lol	18:13
Kuni	that's how we roll, or at least try to.	18:13
Kuni	:)	18:13
Kuni	Now televangelism, THAT's where the money's at.	18:14
rockets	do you feel sad?	18:14
rockets	do you feel lonely?	18:14
Kuni	"The Lord will heal your pain...as soon as that check clears!"	18:14
Kuni	xD	18:14
rockets	do you feel compelled to get up off that couch, GO TO THE PHONE and send me ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS?	18:14
Kuni	rofl	18:15
ethana2	wow	18:15
ethana2	Dude, just give your money to somebody else then ;) Like organizations that help poor people and jazz	18:15
ethana2	It's not like Microsoft or the IRS	18:16
Kuni	ethana2: I don't give money to televangelists. I do give money to my church, not only because it helps pay the salary of those who dedicate their lives to it, but also pays for our alms for the poor fund and things like that.	18:16
rockets	ugh	18:16
ethana2	ok	18:16
rockets	dont get me started on church.	18:16
Kuni	lol	18:16
ethana2	^_^	18:16
Kuni	ok, I won't	18:16
rockets	"Dedicate their lives to it" HAH	18:16
rockets	and thats all im saying.	18:16
ethana2	ok	18:16
ethana2	ooh	18:17
ethana2	new ati drivers	18:17
Kuni	rockets: in every field there is hypocrasy. My dad certainly isn't a hypocrit, that's all I'm saying.	18:17
ethana2	that is true..	18:17
rockets	Kuni, I don't want to get into this with you	18:17
* ethana2 checks Screens and Graphics		18:17
Kuni	lol, good.	18:17
rockets	whoa	18:18
rockets	check this out	18:18
rockets	http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/186887main_s118e07920_hires.jpg	18:18
rockets	its a hurricaine	18:18
rockets	viewed from space	18:18
ffm	ethana2: does it work yet?	18:18
ethana2	fail.	18:18
Kuni	lol	18:18
ethana2	but from now until release	18:18
ethana2	things will be unbreaking left and right	18:19
Kuni	ethana2: I noticed that earlier today. I was like, "I have an nVidia card. Why am I downloading these drivers?"	18:19
ethana2	also, art should start coming in	18:19
ethana2	oh, lol	18:19
paulr	why do I think that you aren't supposed to use ext3 for /boot?	18:19
ethana2	overkill?	18:19
ethana2	you could use FAT16 for /boot, couldn't you?	18:19
Kuni	ethana2: about unbreaking, I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but before updating alpha 4, the startup sound kept playing at random times. It was really funny.	18:20
paulr	you could probably use anything :)	18:20
ethana2	that does sound funny	18:20
paulr	i'm just thinking there was a logical reason to avoid ext3 and use ext2 for /boot , and if my memory is right, I can't remember why ;P	18:20
ethana2	ohhhh.. interesting	18:20
ethana2	i don't encrypt.. so i just have a /	18:21
Kuni	paulr: I can't see why. ext3 is just ext2 + journaling...	18:21
ethana2	..and swap, but i never use it	18:21
paulr	I think the point might have been either a) stability or b) speed - i.e. ext2+journal might take 2ms longer to read then ext2 or something ;/	18:23
Kuni	lol probably	18:23
ethana2	that is possible	18:23
paulr	bit like setting is it.. noatime?	18:24
ethana2	plus that's just not an FS you need journaling with, right?	18:24
paulr	hmm, so server install you can set flags on filesystems for quota's etc, dekstop install you can't? :)	18:24
Kuni	oh	18:25
Kuni	I figured they would implement that in both	18:25
Kuni	That's how the NT series does it, and I always thought they actually did that really well.	18:25
ethana2	ok, 9	18:26
paulr	NT series?	18:26
* ethana2 adds that to the list of things microsoft did right		18:26
Kuni	Windows NT series, i.e. NT 3.5, 4, Win2k, XP, Server 2k3, and Vista	18:26
paulr	you can set quotas etc on both server + desktop	18:27
Kuni	yup.	18:27
ethana2	can you set quotas on viruses?	18:27
Kuni	Dunno about the "home" versions	18:27
ethana2	^_^	18:27
paulr	ahh, think I misread what you meant first time	18:27
paulr	haha	18:27
paulr	250M boot, 19GB / and 700mb swap should do	18:28
Kuni	ethana2: sometimes, but that's only if they follow the "virus" group policy. Microsoft just doesn't seem to understand why they don't... ;)	18:28
ethana2	lol	18:28
paulr	750MB should be enough swap for a box with 512MB ram?	18:28
ethana2	i never use anywhere near that much	18:28
paulr	this is a how to move from gentoo to ubuntu : Ans: try an alpha ;p	18:29
Kuni	I'd assume so, paulr.	18:29
ethana2	'course, i have 768MB of RAM..	18:29
flipstar	paulr: debends on what you do..might not enough..	18:29
Kuni	I've got 2gigs, so I don't even bother with swap.	18:29
ethana2	i don't know, i always just throw 2 GB at it	18:29
ethana2	but hibernate?	18:29
paulr	flipstar: probably just type gcc lots :p	18:29
flipstar	kay then its enough ;)	18:30
Kuni	ethana2: meh. I don't bother. I'm so used to windows that the boot speeds of ubuntu seem like it's coming out of hibernate anyway.	18:30
Kuni	:)	18:30
paulr	reason for moving from gentoo: postgres 8.3 isn't in there main tree yet	18:30
ffm	!universe	18:31
ubotu	The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories	18:31
ffm	Whenever I start compiz, my entire background (everything under the mouse layer) is gon.	18:31
flipstar	ffm: --> #compiz-fusion	18:32
ffm	flipstar: this has to do with my graphics driver.	18:33
ffm	flipstar: and this is the hardy package.	18:33
ethana2	WINE is now at 0.9.56	18:35
ethana2	44 releases yet	18:35
ethana2	they can only drag this out for almost two years now before they hit 1.0.. should be enough time, right? ^_^	18:36
ethana2	i'm going to see if the latest ubuntu dell is available in the US yet..	18:37
ethana2	yes.	18:37
void^	why not have 0.9.100, 0.9.101,..? ;)	18:38
Kuni	void^: cause then they would've had to have 0.9.056 and such	18:38
ethana2	goodness gracious, don't give them ideas like that	18:39
Kuni	but what they can do is 0.9.9.001	18:39
void^	they don't have 2.6.09 with kernels	18:39
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
reya276	ok re-installed Hardy again, can anyone walk tell me how I can make my resolution bigger than 800x600 as I don't have any other choices in the screen resolution app	18:40
Kuni	system > administration > screens and graphics	18:41
=== afflux_ is now known as afflux
Kuni	you have the drivers for your card installed, right?	18:41
ethana2	Kuni, did you just point someone to Screens and Graphics on Hardy?	18:42
ethana2	I think you did.	18:42
ethana2	What am I missing?	18:43
Kuni	ethana2: what?	18:43
Kuni	it's there...	18:43
paulr	hmm, mountpoint dropdown list is empty ;/	18:43
Kuni	hah	18:44
paulr	(only when creating a new partition)	18:44
Kuni	it's also screwy.	18:44
ethana2	many things are.. but we are on the road to rock solid stability	18:44
ethana2	which will be very nice	18:45
Kuni	so what's -wrong- with screens and graphics?	18:45
Kuni	or do we not know	18:45
paulr	mm / needs to be at least 19GB?	18:45
Kuni	paulr: what? I certainly hope not. I've got hardy running on a 5gb partition.	18:45
ethana2	well kuni	18:46
ethana2	wait, you mean cause, not symptoms?	18:46
ethana2	it displays nothing when run from gnome	18:46
Kuni	right.	18:46
paulr	"Some of the partition you created are too small. Please make the following partitions at least this large ( in bytes): / 1928611328	18:46
* paulr hits continue and		18:46
nemo	paulr: are you resizing an XP partition?	18:46
nemo	or Vista	18:46
paulr	no, creating a new partiion on a 20gb hdd	18:47
Kuni	paulr: weird. it works fine for me.	18:47
nemo	well. that's odd	18:47
paulr	tbh, i've been fiddling so probably confused it	18:47
nemo	well. I suppose ubuntu has gotten larger	18:47
nemo	1.8GiB isn't that small anymore	18:47
nemo	perhaps you should be using xubuntu	18:48
paulr	18	18:48
paulr	not 1.8	18:48
nemo	um	18:48
nemo	1928611328	18:48
nemo	that's 1.8GiB	18:48
martalli	fluxbuntu is better for a small distro	18:48
paulr	hmm	18:48
paulr	i've confused it :)	18:48
Kuni	nemo is right!	18:48
nemo	paulr: I think you confused yourself :-p	18:48
paulr	as the same screen that says the min partition size also said 18885MB :)	18:48
* Kuni does a zoidberg impression		18:49
paulr	and i'm pretty sure 18,885MB is 118gb ;p	18:49
paulr	-1	18:49
nemo	heh	18:49
nemo	117? ;0	18:49
Kuni	yeah, I was gonna say	18:49
nemo	;)	18:49
Kuni	lol The Master Partition.	18:49
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
nemo	-100	18:49
nemo	are you sure it isn't saying the min partition size is 1885MiB ? :)	18:50
paulr	and now it's failed to create an ext3 paritition time to try again :)	18:50
Kuni	gosh...	18:50
reya276	Kuni: no I do not right now it's using the Vesa driver	18:50
mhollisjr	I just installed compiz on kubuntu hardy, and it seems attempting to switch to compiz causes X to restart, the hardware is very capable of running compiz, how would I diagnose this? or where would I go to find out? I already have the same question asked in #compiz-fusion	18:50
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Kuni	reya276: oh. hm. Open a terminal and do sudo apt-get install hwinfo, then do sudo hwinfo --framebuffer	18:51
flipstar	mhollisjr: glx is working ?	18:51
Kuni	flipstar: you killed him! ;)	18:51
flipstar	damn	18:52
Kuni	lol	18:52
mhollisjr	-cough- apparently not >< glxinfo \|grep direct = restart X	18:52
flipstar	then its definitive an driver issue	18:52
mhollisjr	it's odd though it broke from a reboot >< best way to fix that would be probably to reinstall the driver correct?	18:53
mhollisjr	alrigh	18:53
mhollisjr	t	18:53
flipstar	you could at least try that	18:53
mhollisjr	-nod- alright brb then	18:53
Kuni	so do we have a #ubuntu+2 for intrepid ibex?	18:55
stdin	no	18:55
reya276	Kuni: I did that now what?	18:55
Kuni	reya276: can you put the output from sudo hwinfo --framebuffer into the pastebin (http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/)	18:56
Kuni	did the driver reinstall work?	18:59
paulr	does the installer create a debug log somewhere?	18:59
s0u][ight	h igys	19:00
mhollisjr	ok that works I've got my eyecandy goodness again thank you	19:00
Kuni	mhollisjr: in kubuntu, how does one go about making the middle mouse activate desktop cube instead of bringing up a context menu?	19:00
Kuni	(something I've always wondered)	19:01
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M\|Away
mhollisjr	uh I forget it's probably in ccsm under bindings for rotate cube	19:01
h3sp4wn_	For small I like to just use grml running from a 1gb usb key	19:01
Kuni	cool	19:01
h3sp4wn_	(damn that was scrolled back to years ago)(	19:01
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: for small I like dsl running from a 64mb usb key.	19:02
Kuni	:)	19:02
flipstar	what time is it in america right now ?	19:03
Kuni	flipstar: on the east coast it's 2:03PM	19:03
Kuni	central it's 1:03PM, west coast is 11:03 am	19:03
s0u][ight	people where can i find the right firmware cutter for b43?	19:04
flipstar	hm just wondering where alpha5 remains	19:04
Kuni	yeah, I'm wondering, too.	19:04
s0u][ight	isn't it released yet?	19:04
flipstar	no	19:04
s0u][ight	:\|	19:04
Kuni	it's supposed to be, but it's not.	19:05
flipstar	delayed for today	19:05
s0u][ight	i thought it would be released yesterday	19:05
flipstar	it was delayed	19:05
s0u][ight	so i'm upgrading with a script :\|	19:05
flipstar	during iso testing as they said	19:05
s0u][ight	omg	19:05
paulr	ext3 file system creation in partition #3 failed ;/	19:06
s0u][ight	how come?	19:06
s0u][ight	is there an alternative for putty?	19:06
flipstar	paulr: using the new live installer ?	19:06
Kuni	paulr: dude you are having some serious issues...	19:06
reya276	Kuni: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56980/	19:06
paulr	in alpha 4	19:06
paulr	does the installer generate a log file somewhere?	19:08
s0u][ight	it should i think	19:08
s0u][ight	damn i got headache	19:09
paulr	ubiquity 1.7.6	19:09
* h3sp4wn_ wonders why people think the splash is so important when it always seems to end in a black screen		19:09
Kuni	k, reya276: do "sudo nano /boot/grub/menu.lst" find the line that starts # dfoptions, and at vga=0x0323 to the end of that line. ctrl+o to save. then try rebooting	19:09
paulr	I assume that's name/verison number of the isntaller	19:09
Kuni	reya276: actually, before rebooting, do "sudo update-grub"	19:10
flipstar	h3sp4wn_: when it is working it is a great thing :)	19:10
s0u][ight	damn some mirrors are quiet slow :\|	19:10
flipstar	use torrent :)	19:10
s0u][ight	too late :D	19:11
=== Mark_M\|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
flipstar	then maybe prozilla	19:11
h3sp4wn_	flipstar: Dunno what you gain other than hiding some errors maybe	19:11
flipstar	a nice startup without dealing with details ..	19:12
nblracer	wait is it out?	19:12
s0u][ight	i was discusting with my friend last time i told him that i wanted to use 2 drivers for my wireless card and he said it will make conflicts ( i mean one who works all the time and the other i can set up if i want to) is it possible?	19:12
h3sp4wn_	Just pretending something does not exist does not make it so	19:12
reya276	Kuni: rebooting	19:13
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: then how do you explain Apple's policy of complete silence about security issues until after they go away? ;)	19:14
flipstar	h3sp4wn_: no but there is no reason to look at the details instead of a nice screen for an normal startup&user	19:14
h3sp4wn_	Kuni: I don't know anything about apple I was going to get a macbook pro at one point but after breaking an ipod in 2 days (and people I know having similar quality issues) I won't find out	19:15
s0u][ight	people i got a question	19:16
* AnswerGuy looks at s0u][ight		19:16
s0u][ight	i was searching for a firmware cutter and just found b43-fwcutter.deb	19:16
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: lol. What is there to say about Apple except that they have some great products, but they're a terrible company.	19:16
h3sp4wn_	Kuni: But they do have ZFS and dtrace so maybe they are worth a look (and supported for most apps I use)	19:16
reya276	Kuni: nope that did not do anything	19:17
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: They -did- manage to make UNIX user friendly...	19:17
s0ullight_	but the weird thing is it says Utility for extracting Broadcom 43xx firmware	19:17
h3sp4wn_	Kuni: It always was user friendly	19:17
s0ullight_	while it should be for the b43 driver could it be misspelled?	19:18
Kuni	reya276: hm. I'm not very well versed on vesa, since I just use the nvidia drivers...what kind of card do you have?	19:18
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: no, I mean basic Mac-user friendly. You know, basically a shiny, high-level toy.	19:19
AnswerGuy	s0u][ight: I don't know for sure but I would guess that b43 and bcm43xx are different drivers for the same class of hardware (family of chipsets). And that the firmware (downloaded into the NIC) should be independent of the driver (linked into the kernel to call on hooks in the firmware to drive the card)	19:20
AnswerGuy	Nota bene: This is just a guess!	19:20
h3sp4wn_	Afaik you can get suitable firmware from the wl.o broadcom embedded firmware	19:20
s0ullight_	tnx	19:21
mhollisjr	if I compile wine myself, will that interfere with future packaging upgrades and installs for wine?	19:21
reya276	Kuni: I have an ATI card but I installed the Fglrx drivers and the ATI drivers but for some reason the card is not recognizing them, for some reason I think they should have kept that xorg.conf like it was before	19:22
Kuni	huh. sorry, I can't help you there, reya276.	19:24
flipstar	mhollisjr: you can set the package to hold	19:24
flipstar	so it wont be upgraded	19:24
flipstar	echo wine hold\|sudo dpkg --set-selections	19:25
mhollisjr	flipstar: well that's the thing when it becomes available on hardy I DO want it to upgrade	19:26
flipstar	then just release it	19:26
mhollisjr	flipstar: my question is, will it be a problem?	19:26
flipstar	no	19:26
mhollisjr	so if I have it installed from source, the package when it becomes available will upgrade properly?	19:27
mhollisjr	assuming default settings and locations?	19:27
flipstar	guess yes it will read the old config files like every app	19:27
mhollisjr	-nod- well I suppose worst case scenario, I back up my wine drive, and make uninstall	19:28
mhollisjr	then install it	19:28
h3sp4wn_	Is there something inherantly broken about using usplash with 1900x1200	19:29
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: heh. Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.	19:29
h3sp4wn_	I am not really that bothered -once I disable it then I will keep it that way	19:30
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: although the best option --framebuffer gives -me- for boot is either 1600x1200 or 1400x1050, neither look very good on my 1920x1200 screen.	19:30
h3sp4wn_	Kuni: Are you using a quadro 1600m also ?	19:30
Kuni	nope. Go 7900GS	19:31
mEck0	Hi folks! I was thinking about some things in Transmission, the "new" bt-client in 8.04. I would like a feature to set directory for both Unfinished downloads and Finished Downloads. AFAIK, you can only set a single download-dir now. Another thing which would be good is to see the amount of time remaining of a download (I mean, when not in minimal mode, alt+m). Sure you can see time left if you select the download and choose Details, bu	19:32
mEck0	t why not see it directly.	19:32
mEck0	And yeah, another thing I miss it the possibility to select a download and choose delete torrent, or delete torrent+data (as in ktorrent for instance). otherwise, I think Transmission is a good lightweight bt-client	19:33
AtomicSpark	:D is it out yet?	19:42
AtomicSpark	good it is.	19:43
AtomicSpark	release schedule page needs to be updated.	19:43
h3sp4wn_	Nice error message - irq 19: nobody cared	19:44
Unksi	:D	19:45
AtomicSpark	interesting. you can now install ubuntu as an application inside windows. that's scary.	19:45
Kalpik	AtomicSpark, link?	19:46
Kuni	news on alpha 5	19:46
s0u][ight	hi guys	19:46
AtomicSpark	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5	19:46
Kuni	they've got a bunch of bugs apparently	19:46
AtomicSpark	alpha5 is out	19:46
reya276	yeah I said the same thing before, which I don't get, should we not try to use windows at all	19:46
Unksi	AtomicSpark: isnt it like an installer that can install it from windows, and then you just reboot it?	19:46
Kuni	AtomicSpark: try downloading it, it's not yet.	19:46
Unksi	or have i got it wrong :P	19:46
AtomicSpark	lawl.	19:47
Kuni	Unski: no, actually you can now run Ubuntu in windows using Wubi	19:47
Unksi	oh ok	19:47
leon_pegg	debtorrent is included in the hardy repos this is good :D far better solution then apt-torrent	19:47
Kuni	see: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all	19:47
Unksi	hmm, wonder if i should use that at my school :P	19:47
Kuni	unski: it's tempting, right? ;)	19:48
AtomicSpark	Unksi: no.	19:50
Unksi	Kuni: sure ;)	19:51
Unksi	AtomicSpark: with usb stick, installed at home, of course	19:51
Kuni	I'm definitely going to be installing in Vista, just so that no matter what OS I boot to, I will always have linux.	19:52
Unksi	i probably couldnt do that there, as they have quite strict permissions set there; though i can run stuff from usb stick	19:52
Kuni	oh the joys of college.	19:53
AtomicSpark	Unksi: are you in college or highschool?	19:53
h3sp4wn_	Kuni: I do always have Linux (via - http://www.slicehost.com)	19:53
Kuni	although I do miss the familiarity I had with my schools system before I left.	19:53
h3sp4wn_	relies on nothing	19:54
getoo	after upgrading to hardy i got no sound .... :(	19:54
Kuni	h3sp4wn_: $$$	19:54
AtomicSpark	getoo: why did you upgrade? D:	19:54
Kuni	I'm a college student.	19:54
Kuni	;)	19:54
getoo	AtomicSpark: one reason .. wifi	19:55
h3sp4wn_	As am I (But I was a well paid sysadmin prior to that)	19:55
getoo	anyways you think u can help me a little AtomicSpark :P	19:55
AtomicSpark	Kuni: ah. i discovered the wonders of a laptop. :D I use it in a lot of my classes.	19:55
paulr	Kuni: worked it out ;p	19:55
AtomicSpark	getoo: No, sorry. I haven't even gotten an alpha installed yet. Ubuntu hates being a guest on KVM.	19:56
getoo	got it	19:56
Kuni	AtomicSpark: Never had a laptop in highschool. Love having it in college. It's a beast, too. 17.1-inch 1920x1200 screen.	19:56
getoo	thanx tho	19:56
Kuni	paulr: what was wrong?	19:56
paulr	Kuni: not being able to create an ext3 partition seems to be the installers way of going "your out of ram"	19:56
getoo	i might try the forums then	19:56
Unksi	AtomicSpark: at jyväskylä university of applied sciences	19:56
Kuni	paulr: lol did you try the alternate install cd then?	19:57
AtomicSpark	Kuni: Ah. Mine is 19" 1440x900 or whatever. I have 1920x1200 on my 24" desktop :P.	19:57
paulr	nah, used the server cd I burnt yesterday	19:57
Kuni	AtomicSpark: 19" laptop? that must be huge	19:58
paulr	(which has actually taken me less time then trying a nice graphical installer with less options )	19:58
=== marko-_-_ is now known as marko-_-
AtomicSpark	Kuni: maybe it's 17..	19:58
* AtomicSpark mesures		19:58
AtomicSpark	Kuni: ha, yup it's 17. :P close enough.	20:01
Kuni	lol	20:03
Kuni	So I wonder if we'll be seeing ANOTHER delay in the alpha	20:04
Kuni	(which sounds really retarded when you think about it: whiny about a two day delay on an alpha test version of an operating system due to come out in two months)	20:05
AtomicSpark	COPYPASTA: For those who have set up encrypted LVM, can you set it up via a live cd in partition manager? or can you only do it when installing ubuntu? What I did for my current install is partition with live cd, installed vista, then went back to live cd and installed ubuntu. Basically I made my partitions using ubuntu but still installed vista first (this prevents a lot of things). Can I do the same thing with encrypted LVM so that the	20:07
Kuni	mmmm copypasta. I was just getting hungry, too.	20:07
flipstar	the last alpha was released late on afternoon	20:07
Kuni	flipstar: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all	20:07
Kuni	they still have few bugs they're working on	20:08
AtomicSpark	lols. other room turned into a vista help desk.	20:13
s0u][ight	hello just made my b43 driver work	20:17
s0u][ight	but got an issue : can't change my interface's name	20:17
s0u][ight	can someone help me	20:17
Kuni	gah...I hate hardy's version of awn...	20:18
AtomicSpark	awn?	20:18
leon_pegg	avant window navigator	20:24
AtomicSpark	well instead of hating, you should suggest improvements!	20:26
leon_pegg	or help with development	20:26
leon_pegg	Kuni awn should be the same on gusty as hardy if your compiling from source	20:27
leon_pegg	Kuni awn should be the same on gusty as hardy if your compiling from source	20:27
Kuni	nope. It's in the repos for hardy, and I got it from a bzr precompiled repo for gutsy	20:28
Kuni	but yes, if I were compiling from source.	20:28
leon_pegg	Kuni is awn in hardy repos	20:28
Kuni	yup	20:29
Kuni	but no applets. :(	20:29
leon_pegg	Kuni its not hard just compile it from source	20:29
Kuni	yeah, that's what I'm going to try next.	20:29
leon_pegg	I have been writing patches for alot of apps i use so that murrine rgba transparency works in them	20:31
leon_pegg	one thing I'll be testing when I get chance is debtorrent with apt-transport-debtorrent	20:33
h3sp4wn_	Is the java 7 alpha usable yet for a plugin ?	20:35
Unksi	the plugin doesn't work here with firefox atm	20:35
bertvdp	hi, is alpha5 is coming out tomorrow, right ?	20:36
h3sp4wn_	I dunno why a version using the ia32-libs of firefox cannot be provided	20:36
Unksi	it was going to come out yesterday.. but we hope for tomorrow	20:36
bertvdp	Unksi, okey thanks	20:36
bertvdp	now that we've passed package freeze I hope to help a bit by doing some alpha testing	20:37
nblracer	any word on when hardy 5 will be finshed and released	20:56
flipstar	http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all	20:57
AtomicSpark	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule	20:57
mhollisjr	is there a program that I can use to simulate a boot off a device?	21:21
mhollisjr	like if I wanted to test booting off my USB stick without rebooting 25 times, since I probably need to make adjustments?	21:21
h3sp4wn_	Did you try qemu ?	21:21
mhollisjr	no but that's what I needed to know ^^ if it'll do that	21:22
mhollisjr	ty ^^	21:22
weedar	I'm trying to set file associations in firefox-3.0 but there doesn't seem to be an option for it..Does anyone know where I set it?	21:26
weedar	The "Applications"-tab in Preferences is empty and I can't seem to add any?	21:27
Kuni	odd...	21:34
Kuni	in ccsm, close and minimize (not on unminimize) fade before they finish...	21:35
Kuni	nevermind	21:36
Kuni	had to uncheck fading windows option	21:36
cyphase	dare i ask.. does anyone know when alpha 5 is coming?	21:43
Kuni	cyphase: we've been asking the same question all day.	21:44
Kuni	Devs contend that there are still bugs	21:44
=== ianc is now known as IanC
cyphase	i was going to ask last night (early morning Friday), but i thought it would be out by now	21:44
cyphase	i see	21:44
Kuni	here	21:44
Kuni	http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/	21:44
Kuni	or	21:46
Kuni	http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/all/all	21:46
SheeEttin	Anyone running Kubuntu Hardy in here?	21:48
flipstar	everyone i guess :)	21:49
Kuni	well, maybe everyone except me. :P	21:49
flipstar	except these that are running gnome of corse	21:49
wastrel	i have gnome	21:50
SheeEttin	flipstar: exactly why I asked about Kubuntu. I'm hesitant to try Hardy, because I tried KDE 4.0, and it didn't look too good...	21:50
mikedep333	as in it was buggy or it didn't have good features?	21:51
mikedep333	right now both are the case in my opinion	21:51
flipstar	SheeEttin: using hardy didnt mean to use kde4	21:51
Centaur5	I'm trying to find out if it's my problem or just the driver but does anybody know if the experimental intel driver is capable of running glx?	21:51
Kuni	no idea	21:52
SheeEttin	flipstar: good point.	21:52
SheeEttin	Which version of X is in the Hardy repos?	21:52
mikedep333	7.3	21:53
SheeEttin	Oh good.	21:54
SheeEttin	Well, I haven't got anything better to do, so I might as well upgrade... Gutsy is getting boring. :P	21:54
ubuntux	is there an easyway to change the mount path and name of an usb connected storage device like a usbdrive?	21:57
flipstar	you can change the label via e2label	21:58
flipstar	change the mount path with remount ..	21:59
ubuntux	k thx	22:00
ubuntux	well its still saying 400.1 gig media	22:02
flipstar	after labeling with e2label ?	22:03
ubuntux	yep	22:03
ubuntux	something to do with udev ?	22:03
flipstar	uhm you did the right device ? e2label device [ new-label ]	22:04
ubuntux	yep	22:04
ubuntux	first checked with fdisk -l	22:04
ubuntux	it is mounted in the path i want (/media/disk)	22:04
ubuntux	but nautilus still shows the 400.1gb drive thing	22:05
ubuntux	instead of disk	22:05
ubuntux	or whatever i like to call it	22:05
flipstar	'e2label device' should show you the new label	22:05
flipstar	maybe restart nautilus ? im using kde so i dont know about nautilus	22:06
ubuntux	ah okay, i will check that out later. thx!!	22:08
ubuntux	what kernel will the final hardy build get?	22:09
AtomicSpark	probably what it is on now.	22:10
ubuntux	ah ok	22:11
AtomicSpark	most of the freezes have taken place. of course there is always secuirty updates to the kernal. :P	22:11
ubuntux	i get kernel panics with wireless rt61pci module	22:11
AtomicSpark	that would be a minor kernal version issue not major. minors get released as an update.	22:11
luke1290	hey hey	22:11
AtomicSpark	but of course that could be a non-kernal issue. ;) i am not sure.	22:12
luke1290	im running Ubuntu LiveCD. But im confused, how can I install xchat and download files onto my desktop? I didnt think it can write to the CD	22:12
flipstar	ram	22:12
AtomicSpark	"A kernel panic is an action taken by an operating system upon detecting an internal fatal error from which it cannot safely recover; the term is largely specific to Unix and Unix-like systems."	22:12
ubuntux	well im not the only one with kernel panics and rt61pci combo :)	22:12
luke1290	i installed xchat and saved files onto my Desktop as im running the LiveCD Ubuntu. How is that possible? Where is it saving the files as it cannot write to the CD?	22:13
flipstar	ram	22:13
AtomicSpark	yes but it might have nothing to do with what version the kernel is. :P	22:13
luke1290	flipstar, but i installed xchat and downloaded heaps of files. and I only have 1 GB ram	22:13
ubuntux	well okay, but the module is coming from that kernel though, well lets hope it will be fixed some day	22:13
flipstar	luke1290: you downloaded more than 1gig to your desktop ?	22:14
AtomicSpark	could be a "oh shi-, this driver makes me break" kind of thing. yeah. must remember it is currently at alpha 4. people shouldn't expect it to work.	22:14
luke1290	flipstar, how much does Ubuntu LIVECD take?	22:14
ubuntux	well, its running pretty good here, im using it instead of gutsy now.. ofcousre i make enough backups in case of..	22:14
AtomicSpark	i haven't tried it yet unfortunately. might have it a go when alpha 5 gets released here soon.	22:15
luke1290	flipstar, does the Ubuntu LIVECD store any data on my HDD?	22:15
flipstar	no not if you dont say so	22:15
AtomicSpark	ubuntux: the kernal version in alpha 5 is 2.6.24-8.14 (2.6.24.2-based) if you were wondering.	22:19
flipstar	why dont they say 2.6.24.2 since it is that ?	22:20
flipstar	im confused of that is there a way to look up which kernel it really is ?	22:21
AtomicSpark	donno. just telling you what it says on the alpha 5 page.	22:21
AtomicSpark	if you have it running you can see what version it is. let me find the command.	22:21
h3sp4wn_	It really isn't anything because its patched	22:21
ubuntux	2.6.24-8-generic thats my kernel	22:21
Unksi	uname -r?	22:21
flipstar	yes but it is based on that	22:22
h3sp4wn_	other than the ubuntu name	22:22
PhantomNJ	hello all, anyone experience webcam constantly taking pictures while upgrading to Hardy from Gutsy?	22:22
AtomicSpark	flipstar: uname -r or uname -a in terminal.	22:22
h3sp4wn_	It doesn't mean anything though	22:22
flipstar	yes but 2.6.24-8 is the *ubuntu name for the kernel i want to find out the real kernel name here it is 2.6.24.2	22:22
flipstar	okay not kernel name but kernel base	22:23
h3sp4wn_	The whole thing is if somehting is patched to hell its different enough from 2.6.24.2 that it shouldn't be called that	22:23
ubuntux	truecrypt 5 is pretty neat	22:23
AtomicSpark	lol.	22:23
ubuntux	just like to mention that :)	22:24
ubuntux	someone using stuff like that?	22:24
Assid	a5 is releaseD?	22:25
=== emgent is now known as carlo__
AtomicSpark	i just downloaded the gusty version of transmission. checking out what it will be like in hardy. do you know if it allows encryption? i see it allows port mapping via upnp.	22:25
AtomicSpark	Assid: no. there were some bugs.	22:25
flipstar	ubuntu i used truecrypt 5 once but then i changed to luks	22:25
Assid	hrmm k	22:25
ubuntux	whats that?	22:25
=== carlo__ is now known as emgent
PhantomNJ	anyone have a webcam go active while upgrading to Hardy?	22:26
flipstar	upcoming standart for encryption on linux	22:26
ubuntux	ah okay	22:26
Assid	AtomicSpark: i thought they pushed it to today	22:26
ubuntux	what do you encrypt with it?	22:26
Assid	PhantomNJ: yeah mine works fine	22:26
flipstar	aes just like truecrypt	22:26
flipstar	but its way faster	22:26
Assid	i bought one thats known to support tho	22:26
PhantomNJ	Assid: was it taking pictures while you did the upgrade?	22:26
PhantomNJ	I don't know if it's testing or what, but the upgrade seems to have stalled while it's snapping pics and saving them to /tmp/motion	22:27
Assid	?	22:27
PhantomNJ	I'm wondering if I should disconnect it	22:27
Assid	nah	22:27
DoYouKnow	no Alpha 5 available for download?	22:28
AtomicSpark	Assid: the page is up but the download link is missing. it also says there are bugs with current iso.	22:28
AtomicSpark	DoYouKnow: not yet	22:28
ethana2	I like that the release page notes the delay	22:30
ethana2	As opposed to it just sitting there while things push it back day after day	22:30
flipstar	yep was clear since few days already	22:30
ethana2	wow, came so fast.. the trick is forgetting about it instead of waiting anxiously ;)	22:31
AtomicSpark	anyone know what file systems lvm supports?	22:31
Assid	wheres the announcement?	22:37
AtomicSpark	what announcement?	22:37
Assid	of the delay	22:38
AtomicSpark	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule	22:39
AtomicSpark	Alpha 5 (NOTE: Delayed until 22nd)	22:40
AtomicSpark	I'm thinking it will be delayed further. :P	22:40
Assid	just a note	22:40
flipstar	night is long ..	22:40
Assid	i think they wanna try and clear as many bugs as possible for this alpha release	22:40
AtomicSpark	yeah. some guy posted a link to the iso info about the bugs.	22:40
flipstar	that here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all	22:41
AtomicSpark	well there you go!	22:41
* Kuni is proud to be "some guy!"		22:44
Kuni	:D	22:44
flipstar	that site is great! i just bookmarked it :P	22:44
Kuni	yeah, the dev team was gracious enough to give it to me when I bugged them about how we here in +1 had no idea what was going on with alpha 5.	22:45
weltschmerz	every time my screensaver should come on, i instead get a black screen that will not "wake up", and i just see my mouse arrow and have to hit ctrl-alt-backspace and log back in.	22:45
weltschmerz	and if i try to open screensaver preferences it doesn't really load. everything in the window stays grey.	22:45
weltschmerz	no text appears or anything. it just seems frozen.	22:46
weltschmerz	this has not happened on my home machine also on hardy	22:46
Kuni	hm	22:46
Kuni	haven't had that problem yet...	22:46
=== Spec is now known as x-spec-t
Habbie	hello; why is openssh-server not on the hardy server iso?	23:06
Kuni	sorry Habbie, I don't have the answer	23:09
=== theAtom is now known as seeking1
Kuni	you could try #ubuntu-devel	23:09
Kuni	or maybe someone else here knows	23:09
Habbie	i'll hang around, see if an answer comes :)	23:09
Kuni	Habbie, from what I can tell from the dev chat, it sounds like they're hoping to have that fixed in Alpha 5 when it finally comes out	23:17
Habbie	ah, that's good to hear	23:18
Habbie	thanks	23:18
Kuni	np	23:18
Kuni	I could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like	23:18
swx_	No news of heron A5?	23:25
swx_	Maybe its delayed till tomorrow ?	23:25

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