=== Dana1 is now known as DanaG
toresbeanyone else having problems with proprietary nVidia on Hardy?00:01
nblracerhey is hardy 5 out?00:02
toresbeIt simply seems to not work00:03
toresbethe X.org logs are just ...business as usual, then "couldn't init card" or something like that00:03
cwillutoresbe, I'm running it fine, didn't do anything special00:04
cwillutoresbe, upgrade or fresh install?00:04
toresbecwillu: upgrade00:06
toresbeit simply goes00:06
cwilluhow did you have the nvidia driver installed before?00:06
toresbe(EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device!00:06
cwillujust through the restricted manager, or did you have to do anything more?00:06
toresbecwillu: restricted, I think.00:06
cwillutry dpkg-reconfigure'ing x, set it to vesa, and then run the restricted drivers manager again from inside x00:07
toresbewon't work00:09
toresbe(EE) NVIDIA(0): Failed to initialize the NVIDIA graphics device!00:09
toresbeoh wait, found the problem00:10
toresbeI'm running an older kernel.00:10
toresbebut I'm doing that because the newer one won't boot :(00:10
cwilluwhat happens that it won't boot?00:10
toresbeWaiting for root FS...00:10
* cwillu feels like elisa some days00:11
toresbesomething to that effect. Won't go past that.00:11
cwillutoresbe, what does you fstab look like?00:11
toresbeWhy do you say that you feel like elisa some days?00:11
cwillupastebin your fstab and your /boot/grub/menu.lst00:11
toresbean UUID in the fstab00:11
cwilluwhat kernel version are you running?00:11
toresbebrb, rebooting with fstab saying /dev/sda100:12
cwilluokay, sounds like grub isn't giving the kernel an accurate idea of what partition it's supposed to use (fstab line doesn't actually affect that)00:12
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
ubotuLaunchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete]00:18
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
ax1shey .. is css broken in hardy?00:27
ax1smy dvd playback quits00:28
ax1sor certain dvds00:28
toresbecwillu: got it debugged.00:38
toresbecwillu: the right modules simply aren't loaded at boot time.00:38
toresbecwillu: after a while, /scripts/local give up and drop me to an initramfs shell. When I modprobe sd_mod and sata_nv and ^D, the system boots.00:38
cwillumight want to report it on launchpad00:39
toresbeAlso, the fscking index thing is annoying, too.00:42
toresbewhat would I be filing a bug against? The kernel image?00:42
cwillutoresbe, either that or grub I'd think;  they'll change the affected packages if they need to00:48
toresbecwillu: I'm submitting it against the kernel, since it's the kernel that's failing to load the module.00:51
toresbeTerrasqu1: o/00:52
cwillutoresbe, there's supposed to be some love going towards the fsck problem00:52
cwillutoresbe, btw, don't use the fsck-on-shutdown hack from ubuntuforums, it's got some nice root escalation holes in it00:53
toresbecwillu: "the fsck problem"?00:53
toresbecwillu: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/19419600:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 194196 in linux "Fails to insert nVidia SATA disk modules on boot causing boot fail" [Undecided,New]00:53
cwilluthought you were talking about the occasional long delay in booting due to fsck00:54
toresbeoh, heh. No. I meant "fscking" as a slightly geekier way of saying "fucking".00:54
toresbeThe blinking exclamaation point in the top is annoyingly distracting.00:55
cwillumight not be the best choice of euphemism on a linux support channel :p00:55
toresbecwillu: where else would it be a good choice? :)00:55
cwilluit'd probably work on #bsd :p00:57
cwillumaybe on osx?00:57
toresbeugrgh. That blinking thing is FREAKING ANNOYING.01:00
* toresbe submits another bug. :)01:00
cwilluwhich blinking thing?01:00
toresbethe tracker applet.01:00
cwilluah, that01:00
toresbelibdeskbar-tracker I think01:00
toresbeoh it was actually having problems, and blinking for a reason01:05
toresbeit barfed on seeing the file "xmp:-"01:05
toresbein my $HOME01:05
sweetsinsewhats up with alpha 5 why the link 40401:07
toresbethis is STRANGE.01:08
sweetsinsewhere is alpha 5 release01:09
toresbefile changes to /home/toresbe/xmp:- is pausing tracker01:11
toresbeFile /home/toresbe/xmp:- has finished changing01:11
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
* heret1c yawns01:29
heret1csheesh - 7 hr siesta 8)01:30
heret1cdrwillis> how goes?01:31
Dr_willisI work 3rd shift.01:32
heret1cno rest for the wicked, eh?01:33
heret1cnot even the extremely wicked. 8)01:33
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
heret1cdrwillis> assid runs ide drives with no problems. showed some rather impressive -Tt results.01:34
* heret1c wondrs if it's down to the chipset, ir what. lspci|grep ata01:35
Dr_willisGiven what ive read about the various ide problems over the years - its often an issue with the mb's ide chipset.01:36
heret1c: nods01:36
Dr_willisfixing a lot of these issues is one of the reasons for the rework of  ata  stuff in the kernel.01:36
heret1cHost bridge: Intel Corporation 82852/82855 GM/GME/PM/GMV Processor to I/O Controller (rev 02)01:39
heret1cbog standard, afaik.01:39
toresbehehe, I found the problem.01:40
toresbeHehe. This is a fun bug in Ubuntu tracker/imagemagick.01:40
toresbe(imagemagick/convert is an image processing utility, tracker is a file alteration monitor (like spotlight and whatever the vista knockoff is called))01:40
toresbeSo - picture this... tracker is searching along, and encounters a graphics file. It wants to thumbnail it, so it passes it along to convert. Convert creates a temporary file. Tracker notices that a file has been created. It notices it's an image file, so it wants to thumbnail it. It calls convert.01:40
Dr_willisOne of the many reasons i always disable those tracker/indexing services01:41
Dr_willisI dont seem to have an issue keeping my stuff organized. :)01:41
sweetsinsewhats up with alpha 5 why the link 40401:44
Dr_willisperhaps its not done yet?  its waiting to get uploaded.01:45
nblraceri herd it was held back until tomorrow01:45
nblraceri dont know why though01:45
Dr_willismeans there will be 1000 updates tomorow? :)01:46
Dr_willisegads.. wubi is going to be on the cd....01:51
* Dr_willis hides01:51
heret1cthey are a bit early with the advertising/late with the release.01:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete]01:54
* DanaG wants the non-loop-but-still-starts-from-windows installer, instlux.01:54
Mark_MillimanIf we are on alpha 4 will we automatically see alpha 5 through upgrade-manager or do we have to run it with "-d?"01:54
cwilluMark_Milliman, updates will bring you to alpha5 (the alphas are just particular package versions)01:56
Mark_MillimanThanks cwillu, I have always stayed with the released versions.  This is the first time I have jumped on the bleeding edge of Ubuntu releases.01:57
Mark_MillimanI saw that it would solve some of the problems I was having with Gutsy01:58
Mark_MillimanI never noticed until now that there is not an option in Nautilus to restore from Trash!!!02:00
Dr_willisMark_Milliman,  heh - i noticed yesterday that  You have to Shift-Delete to delete somthing, not move it to trash.02:01
Dr_willisMy Thumbdrive was all full.. and it was empty! :002:01
DanaGTry deleting stuff from trash.... it replicates!02:01
Dr_willisi wonder if there will be some updates/fix's to that  - annoyance.02:01
Dr_willisDanaG,  :)02:01
Mark_MillimanHopefully GVFS will fix all of that in Alpha 502:02
RAOFDanaG: Re bug 190934.  I contend that you're seeing a bug in compiz, since I find it trivial to reproduce this under compiz but can't reproduce under metacity at all.02:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19093402:02
DanaGBut even after I kill compiz, it's still just as broken.02:03
DanaGAnd nothing should be able to make xev get the terminate_server keycode.02:04
RAOFI'm also not sure you're seeing the same bug; killing X fixes our bug, but the original poster seems to need to do other stuff.02:07
RAOFAnyway, I'll file a bug against compiz, and suggest that it's a likely dup of that bug.02:08
RAOFDamn.  I've broken Do by reproducing the bug :/02:08
RAOF!info gnome-do02:09
ubotugnome-do (source: gnome-do): Quickly perform actions on your desktop. In component universe, is optional. Version (hardy), package size 50 kB, installed size 216 kB02:09
RAOFKinda like gnome-launch-box and deskbar, but somewhat more direct/cooler.02:10
DanaGWhat's the hotkey?02:18
RAOFDanaG: Super-space.  Yes, it would be nice to make that more obvious.02:25
DanaGAah, I have deskbar assigned to that, for now.02:25
DanaGAah, changed it.02:26
RAOFDanaG: I hope you have got the gnome-do-plugins (and especially gnome-do-plugin-rhythmbox) package installed.  Do is now my primary interface to Rhythmbox.02:26
DanaGI use Exaile.02:26
DanaGMedia keys are broken in Exaile.  Argh.02:26
RAOFAnd banshee, too.  Gnome-settings-daemon has changed the02:27
RAOFAPI again :)02:27
Nubbieis hardy alpha 5 live yet?02:33
Nubbiei had a chance to test pulse audio before, and i'm very glad ubuntu has decided to include it ENABLED by default.02:37
Nubbieit's been long over due, imo.02:38
sweetsinseyeah ive been waiting all day for that alpha 502:39
sweetsinsei gpt excited when the wiki was onine02:39
DanaGThey need to install libasound2-plugins by default, too.02:39
sweetsinsewhats that02:39
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about alpha5 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi02:39
DanaGlibasound2-plugins has the alsa-to-pulse wrapper.02:40
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about alpha - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi02:42
Nubbieubotu, you're fired.02:42
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about you're fired. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi02:42
Nubbiedamn artificial intelligence. this machine doesn't know when to stop talking back.02:42
heret1cubotu anything02:43
ubotuSo, you wanted to lure me into saying I don't know anything about anything? Yeah, that would be funny, of course. Now leave me alone.02:43
underwatercowanyone hear if Alpha 5 is on schedule?02:43
Mark_Millimansounds like it is a little late02:44
Mark_Millimanthe links to the ISO images are 40402:44
underwatercowMark_Milliman: So is it looking like tomorrow then? :-p02:44
Nubbiethere's still more than 5 hours left in this day in North America. it isn't late yet.02:44
=== keffie_jayx is now known as effie_jayx
underwatercowNubbie: Hello again, lol... and I know... I'm just impatient... when they say the 21st... I want it at midnight. ;-D02:45
Nubbiedon't we all. but then it would be a day early on the other side of the globe now wouldn't it :)02:45
underwatercowNubbie: Who cares about them?02:45
underwatercowanyone know what time the debates are on?02:47
Nubbieubuntu > politics.02:48
sweetsinseyeah i hope i can start the DL for alpha 5 before i go to bed at least02:57
Nubbiei'm going to seed it all night.02:57
Nubbiespread that ubuntu love.02:57
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
Nubbiespread it all over.03:00
nblracerim new to alpha for ubuntu, are updates pushed out for pre-rlease?03:01
nblraceror do they need to be manualy installed?03:01
Nubbienblracer: updates are handled through official repositories.03:02
Nubbienblracer: official hardy (ALPHA!!!) repositories.03:03
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Nubbiemark shuttleworth should go to space again.03:07
underwatercowwe still need to get that number 1 bug fixed Nubbie...03:08
underwatercowhow do you check bugs anyway?03:10
underwatercowubotu 103:10
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about 1 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi03:10
underwatercowubotu bug 103:10
ubotuLaunchpad bug 1 in ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/103:10
ubotuFor discussion and help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and /msg ubotu equivalents03:10
Nubbiei think it's a good thing microsoft has a massive market share.03:12
Nubbieand here's why.03:12
Nubbieforces more innovation from the unix side.03:12
DanaGOne good thing about Vista: it forces manufacturers to implement better ACPI controllers.03:13
Nubbieanother good thing about vista: the market is now open for solid state disks.03:13
Nubbiewhat the hell do they call that thing...03:13
sweetsinsesolid state is interesting03:14
sweetsinseive been watching that for a few years now.. i remeber reading about a 'cube' that could hold 100's of gigs haha03:14
Nubbiesweetsinse: i saw a person at school with one of those eeepcs.. made me consider a solid state disk.03:14
sweetsinsesame with macbook air03:14
Nubbiemacbook air will be a paperweight.03:14
Nubbiei can see it now... cracked screens... bent hinges... overheating...03:15
Nubbiethat and the battery is now screwed to the motherboard, the hard drive is buried, afaik there is no way to upgrade memory...03:16
Nubbiei considered a macbook, mainly for the opportunity to triple boot... but i realized i'd just be running linux 100% of the time anyways.03:18
Nubbieand for the money, there is far better hardware on which to run linux.03:18
DanaGIf I wanted something light, I'd get an HP tablet, or something.03:19
Nubbiei don't understand how 4lbs is "heavy"03:19
Nubbieget a REGULAR laptop.03:19
Nubbieespecially if you just want to run linux.03:20
DanaGMy current notebook is 7.5 pounds.03:20
DanaGThe next one I'm considering is 5.9.03:20
Nubbieif you actually have a vested requirement of OSX, then maybe it's viable. even then, why not get a regular macbook.03:20
sweetsinsei dont need osx, i dont even know how to get linux on the damn thing since it has no traditional bios..  i just thought the air was nice, and i didnt know of another solid state pc03:21
DanaGOther companies offer SSDs, too..03:22
Nubbieyou can put a solid state disk in ANY computer.03:22
Nubbiejust order a computer sans hard drive and install it yourself.03:22
sweetsinseinteresting what the max capacity right now03:22
cwillusweetsinse, eeepc is solid state03:23
Nubbiethe macbook air isn't even solid state.03:24
Nubbieit uses a 1.8" hard drive.03:24
RAOFThe solid state one is :)03:24
Nubbiethe same one they put in the ipod.03:24
Nubbieoh i didn't realize they had a solid state option...03:24
* Nubbie investigates03:24
uniscriptit costs the earth though, $1k for the drive IIRC03:25
RAOFNubbie: I believe it's a USD1000 option, bug you also gain some CPU speed, too.03:25
sweetsinsewhats the capacity on the 100003:25
Nubbiewow. that's actually not bad for 32gb SSD03:27
toresbeit's a shitty, overpriced laptop03:29
Nubbietoresbe: correct.03:29
Nubbietoresbe: at the very least, it will bring down the production costs of SSD.03:29
RAOFtoresbe: This of course depends on what you want to do with it :)03:29
toresbeRAOF: no, it doesn't... there are no redeeming features03:31
toresbeit's the standard apple "oh my god another mediocre product from apple" hype03:31
uniscriptbut pretty03:31
RAOFtoresbe: It's extremely light, and extremely thin.03:31
toresbeRAOF: like a lot of cheaper better and higher-quality laptops03:31
RAOFtoresbe: It's entirely possible that these aren't useful features *for you* (and they're not really for me), but they're certainly features.03:32
toresbe(which, OMG, have Ethernet ports! ETHERNET PORTS!)03:32
RAOFtoresbe: Name two :)03:32
uniscriptpretty, MacOS03:32
NubbieRAOF: eeepc.03:32
toresbeRAOF: IBM X61, Asus Eee PC.03:32
Nubbieuniscript: what's so great about OSX?03:32
uniscriptdid I say it was great?03:33
RAOFNubbie: Isn't the eepc really extremely small & also quite low powered.  And has 4GB of storage?03:33
Nubbieuniscript: the macbook has OSX... so what's the point of the air?03:33
uniscriptyou asked for two features. I know a number of mac fans03:33
DanaGI've installed OS X on MY PC, and I still use Linux as my primary OS.03:33
NubbieRAOF: that 4gb is upgradable. and about $1400 cheaper.03:34
* DanaG will never buy a laptop without Gigabit Ethernet.03:34
uniscriptOK it's pretty *and* it's light *and* it runs Mac OSX, and the feature is in the and function03:34
RAOFNubbie: For about $1400 less computer, apparently :)03:34
Nubbieuniscript: if i WERE to buy a mac, i wouldn't be able to find many excuses to buy an air over a regular macbook.03:34
wastreli installed chandler on my ubuntu hardy03:34
uniscriptah but you are an engineer03:34
uniscriptthe air isn't aimed at you and your interest in functionality03:35
Nubbieuniscript: i am a student.03:35
Nubbieuniscript: even as a student i couldn't justify it.03:35
uniscriptno, but an executive might03:35
uniscriptI'm not here to defend the thing. All I know is that Apple are not stupid and there must be a market for the thing03:36
uniscriptPersonally I wouldn't touch it either03:36
Nubbieuniscript: what they03:36
RAOFuniscript: Indeed.  It doesn't do what _I_ want in a laptop, but I'm pretty sure that other people have different wants/needs.03:36
Nubbieuniscript: what they've done IS really cool and all, it just isn't targeted at ANY audience other than those looking for a "pretty" computer.03:36
uniscriptwe agree03:37
Nubbienow lets wait for hardy alpha 5.03:37
DanaGI wouldn't use the Air if you PAID me to use it.... or maybe, I'd take it, sell it, and use the money to buy something else.03:37
Nubbiei use it for sure if i didn't have to pay for it lol.03:37
* DanaG points to existing rants about ethernet and USB and firewire, or lack thereof.03:38
DanaGA pointer to a rant is less annoying than the rant itself.03:38
Nubbiefirewire is pointless. for the very small percentage of people who actually use it i think they should just offer an exprescard adapter for it.03:39
DanaGNo expresscard slot.03:39
DanaGFirewire does have one point: firewire CD drive.  Firewire hard drive.03:39
DanaGFirewire network, since they don't have GbE.03:39
NubbieDanaG: eSATA > firewire.03:39
Nubbieoh i forgot macs can network over firewire and usb and what not.03:40
uniscriptI know this question is supposed to be out of bounds, but I'm wondering when to upgrade to hardy on my one machine. I'm not afraid to fix stuff03:40
uniscriptdell d620 laptop03:40
Nubbieuniscript: run the alpha livecd.03:40
uniscriptjust that I'm going to be *really* busy around release date03:41
uniscriptnubbie: good point, duh03:41
Nubbieif stuff is broken, beyond your knowledge of how to fix it, don't use it, and report the bugs.03:41
uniscript(that was duh towards me not you btw)03:41
DanaGNo eSATA, either!03:42
DanaGSo it's a moot point.03:42
Nubbiei realize that uniscript lol.03:42
NubbieDanaG: i'm talking about computers *in general* but yes, i see the use of firewire on macs with no ethernet.03:42
sweetsinseRAWR i want hardy 503:42
DanaGThey could even use the 4-pin, if they don't want the bigger 6-pin.03:43
* Nubbie awaits hardy alpha 5 over a bowl of icecream03:44
DanaGTwo cool features in the notebook I'm considering next time:03:44
DanaGA.  BIOS option for "Fan always on when on AC Power" -- different people like different ways.03:45
DanaGB.  BIOS option for 'swap FN and Ctrl' -- how sweet is that?  It's awesome.03:45
sweetsinsei want a custom bios that broadcasts its location when its stolen03:45
Nubbielol that would be cool.03:45
sweetsinsebios driven not os03:45
Nubbiethat would be sick. no way to thwart that.03:46
DanaGCompuJack has some embedded thingy, but I wouldn't believe it'd work.03:46
DanaGOh, and it has both touchpad and pointy-stick, each with three physical buttons.03:46
sweetsinsei have a fingerprint reader on my lappy03:46
uniscriptcould linux bios do that for you?03:46
sweetsinsei can log in with it03:46
=== bmk789_ is now known as bmk789
uniscriptso fingerprint readers work ok in ubuntu?03:47
Nubbie3 buttons is dumb.03:47
Nubbieit's not hard to press both at the same time.03:47
sweetsinseit was kinda a bitch to get w3rking03:47
sweetsinseusing think_finger03:47
sweetsinsebut its in offical repos now i think03:47
sweetsinsethis was back on feisty, i havent done it in gutsy03:47
Nubbieuniscript: i believe the fingerprint readers are recognized as video devices via v4l.03:47
wastreli like 3 button03:48
sweetsinseyeah the take an image, mine is on usb bus03:48
sweetsinsethey take*03:48
DanaGCan somebody post an image of what it captures?03:48
Nubbieso we can all agree that 1 button touch pads are retarded (or mentally deficient for our politically correct audience)03:48
uniscripteven MacOS needs cmd+click03:49
wastrelsomewhat mitigated by the multitouch thing nowadays03:49
wastreltwo-finger tap03:49
DanaGBut can't do three-finger tap in OS X.03:49
Nubbieyeah... but DAMN the patent mess surrounding it.03:49
DanaGHere's how I have my touchpad in Linux:  1 == nothing, 2 == middle, 3 == right.03:49
DanaGCan't do that in OS X or in the Windows synaptics drivers.03:50
DanaGOddly, the "swipe three fingers to go back a page" has existed in the Synaptics Windows drivers for years --- but, it's always been hidden.03:50
wastreli'm not fond of multitouch since i don't use touchpad much anyway03:52
wastrelbut it's nice when i'm stuck on an apple laptop03:52
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
DanaGI prefer touchpad over mouse, actually -- especially under Linux.03:57
NubbieDanaG: you obviously don't work with graphics then lol.03:59
Nubbieas a photographer i couldn't survive without a mouse.03:59
DanaGI don't work with graphics.  The mouse I have is an MX700, and I find that using it (especially when it's cold) can lead to an "I'd better stop now or I'm going to get RSI" pain in my hand.04:01
cwilluNubbie, you're obviously new on the whole digital photography thing, or you'd be using a trackball :p04:02
wastreli use trackpoint04:03
toresbeI use a Teletype... idiots!04:03
DanaGI use MouseKeys...... not.04:03
Nubbiei want retina trackers. how sick would that be?04:04
sweetsinsehaha no doubt man04:04
sweetsinsei saw a wii remote programed to a guys comp04:04
sweetsinsethat was cool04:05
Nubbiei also saw that.04:05
Nubbiethe wiimote is just a bluetooth device correct? and it uses the infrared points to calculate it's position in space.04:05
sweetsinsei mean not quite retinas but hey a step in the right dircetion.  ive always believe in nintendo, haha from the beginning04:05
sweetsinseit uses the screen i think too like duckhunt just more precise04:06
Nubbiei must say i sold my gamecube for an xbox.04:06
Nubbieand i don't regret it.04:06
sweetsinsehell no04:06
sweetsinseive modded like 150+ xboxes in meh day04:06
Nubbiesweetsinse: yeah that's what i did.04:06
sweetsinsehaha i use to make ppl pay me04:06
sweetsinsewhy not04:06
Nubbiesweetsinse: XBMC is one incredible app. i'm surprised they didn't land a contract with microsoft for their efforts.04:06
sweetsinsei know04:07
* Nubbie goes to serve up some ice cream.04:07
sweetsinsemicrosoft did talk to the team that made the 360 skin for xbmc, they just wanted the little 360 rotator thingy removed, other than that they said keep up the good w3rk04:07
DanaGHow about un-drm'ing the xbox?04:08
DanaGOr letting people build an OS for the 360?04:08
DanaGNope, too open.04:08
NubbieDanaG: the original xbox has no elements of anything resembling a DRM scheme.04:08
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
NubbieDanaG: and there is an amazing linux community for the xbox too.04:09
DanaGoh, well, why do you need a modchip for xbmc?04:09
DanaGOr do you _not_ need one?04:09
NubbieDanaG: you do NOT.04:10
NubbieDanaG: it's just easiest if you do have one.04:10
Nubbieyou can mod your xbox without even opening the case.04:11
Nubbieit's called soft modding, it's less technical, but as a result it's more of a hassle.04:11
sweetsinsebut there are all inclusive setups04:14
* DanaG doesn't own one, anyway.04:14
sweetsinsei use a savegame from krayzie i think that sets up the softmod, backs up the C, created a shadow C, created shadow EEPROM, and installs evox04:15
sweetsinsemakes it impossiblefor ppl to mess up their box04:16
DanaGOdd... compiz, or perhaps libwnck, is b0rked.04:17
DanaGIt has 4 workspaces instead of one 4-sided workspace.... despite the fact that compiz-fusion is set to the latter.04:18
DanaGI have to manually go reset the number of workspaces to 2 and then back to 1 to fix it.04:20
DanaGOh, and WTF?  You can't change the number of workspaces from the pager applet.04:21
sweetsinsewhat is libwnck for04:27
sweetsinseugh i just keep checking to see if alpha is out yet04:27
DanaG!info libwnck04:31
ubotuPackage libwnck does not exist in hardy04:31
DanaG!info libwnck004:31
ubotuPackage libwnck0 does not exist in hardy04:31
DanaG!info libwnck-dev04:31
ubotulibwnck-dev (source: libwnck): Window Navigator Construction Kit - development files. In component main, is optional. Version 2.21.91-0ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 210 kB, installed size 1196 kB04:31
DanaG!info libwnck04:31
DanaGHere's something odd about the new wallpaper: each color is actually darker than it looks.  Try guessing the color (subjective, not RGB) of a section, and then using a color picker on it.04:42
wastrelhrm ff3 is b0rky04:44
sweetsinsereya276 dpkg configure is not suppoer to w3rk anymore on xorg04:45
sweetsinsethey removed it04:45
sweetsinseand the serverlayout section04:46
reya276ok how can I fix my resolution04:46
sweetsinsewhat is the output of:   xrandr   : in therminalk04:46
reya276default connected 800x600+0+0 0mm x 0mm04:47
sweetsinsethere are no resolution options?04:47
reya276no none, not even to select a different graphics card04:48
reya276well yes there is 640x48004:48
sweetsinsewha graphics card do you have04:49
DanaGWell, at least it'll stop people from recommending dpkg-reconfiguring Xorg as the universal solution to so many Xorg problems.04:49
reya276it's an old ATI m6404:50
sweetsinseugh nasty ati huh04:50
reya276well no the restricted drivers kicked in just fine04:50
sweetsinsethe resticed driver manager doesnt w3rk i suppose04:50
sweetsinseso it says active?04:51
sweetsinseor enabled04:51
RAOFI didn't think fglrx still supported cards that old.04:51
* DanaG has the Tetris title theme as his phone ring.04:53
reya276sweetsinse: oh actually the restricted drivers are only on for my wireless card not the graphics card, maybe this is the issue, I need the drivers04:53
* DanaG wonders how many of the people here have been to Cal Poly, SLO.04:53
Nubbiecal poly....04:56
ubotuGoogle is a very popular search engine: http://www.google.com  -  Google also has a Linux-specific search engine: http://google.com/linux04:57
DanaG!google cal poly04:57
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about google cal poly - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi04:57
DanaGdang, no google script.04:57
sweetsinsereya276 i know ati needs restricted05:00
Nubbiesweetsinse: that's not necessarily true. not all ati cards require restricted drivers.05:02
sweetsinseok then05:03
sweetsinseeveryone ive done needed it :)05:03
* DanaG hopes fglrx or radeonhd (I don't care which) is good enough by summer for /me to jump ship from nvidia.05:03
sweetsinsei b back05:03
DanaGmach 64?05:03
DanaGRadeon?  Rage?05:03
reya276sweetsinse: yeah, I'm downloading the xorg-fglrx drivers now, hopefully this will fix the issue05:03
cooldevicesDanaG lol do you really beleive they implement full 3d support from scratch by summer in radeonhd?05:04
DanaGNo, but perhaps fglrx will have improved by then.05:04
DanaGI've never heard of a "Radeon M64" -- or is it a Mobility, and really a 7000 or 7500 or something?05:05
Nubbiecooldevices: AMD is running that ship now, they may force open source drivers.05:05
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
cooldevicesDanaG: whats wrong with nvidia?05:05
cooldevicesno open source?05:06
Nubbieintel graphics are superior to both ati and nvidia in terms of open source drivers.05:06
DanaGFreezing, lockups, screen blinking, no open source at all, and Windows drivers often suck.05:06
cooldevicesNubbie: too bad regnum online not work with intel :/05:06
Nubbiethe only restricted driver i have enabled is for wireless. and even then, 99.9% of that code is open source.05:07
cooldevicesDanaG: which videocard?05:07
DanaGGeForce Go 7600 (128MB).05:08
reya276is there anyway to reconfigure my display drivers05:08
shadowbladeCan someone help me revert to Gusty? I'm having way too many problems with hardy heron alpha and I'd like to avoid wiping and starting over.05:09
DanaGreya276: one thing useful: man radeon05:10
DanaGAlso look in the xorg log for errors about EDID and/or DDC, and such.05:10
reya276DanaG: this is the card I have Radeon IGP 330M/340M/350M05:12
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
cooldevicesend users don't care about open source, they not going to modify source. so it is more like faith.05:14
cooldevicesnvidia driver work ok for me05:14
DigitalNinjaIs there a release date for hardy?05:14
uniscript24th iirc05:15
DigitalNinjasorry heron05:15
DigitalNinjaApril 2405:15
DigitalNinjaIs there a website with the dates?05:15
cooldevicesdrivers are free anyway, even if they are proprietary05:16
NubbieDigitalNinja: http://ubuntu.com/testing05:16
Nubbiecooldevices: yeah, but you don't know what's going on  behind the scenes. and if something goes wrong, nobody is able to fix it.05:16
Nubbieshadowblade: why did you upgrade to an alpha pre-release?05:17
DanaGIt's possible to downgrade using apt pinning, but it's risky, and I don't remember offhand how to do it.05:17
cooldevicesNubbie: nobody is going to fix open source, if developers dont want it05:17
Nubbiecooldevices: if there's a security problem with a closed source program, how do you go about fixing it?05:18
cooldevicesNubbie: why me? nvidia has security problem once and fixed it itslef05:19
shadowbladeNubbie: I was having a problem with an application and I got from a google search that it worked ok with hardy, so I tired it on another machine and it didn't work, nevermind the application05:19
DigitalNinjaNubbie: Thanks!05:19
Nubbiecooldevices: and if nvidia had budget problems and cut back support for their linux bug fixes...05:20
cooldevicesNubbie: are linux developers rich and have no budget problems? linux depend on donating05:21
RAOFcooldevices: The FSF is *founded* on "man, I wish I could fix this crap software".05:22
Nubbiecooldevices: no, if something's broke and somebody has an interest and the ability to fix something, they will.05:22
RAOFcooldevices: While proprietary drivers don't have to be worse quality than open-source drivers, you can't fix them.05:23
Nubbiei'd go out on a limb to say that 85% of all linux developers are unpaid.05:23
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
cooldevicesRAOF: i like millions of potential linux user can't fix open source either, cuz i'm not programmer05:23
RAOFcooldevices: But, similarly, you can't ask *Ubuntu* to fix it.05:24
cooldevicesi can ask nvidia to fix it05:24
RAOFAnd there are also at least tens of thousands, if not millions, of linux users who *can* fix drivers.05:24
RAOFcooldevices: And if your problem isn't a priority, then you're left without recourse.05:25
Nubbiecooldevices: nvidia already has your money. linux devs fix things to keep users.05:25
RAOFAlso, nvidia's bug tracker isn't.05:25
shadowbladeSo can anyone help me?05:25
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
cooldeviceswell i will choose another videocard which work, this is how business works05:26
Nubbieshadowblade: looks like you installed too early.05:26
Amaranthcooldevices: Why do they care? You aren't a business user05:26
Nubbieyou were warned... many times, that by installing an ALPHA release, you were taking a risk.05:27
Amaranthcooldevices: They make Linux drivers for workstation graphics people, the desktop and laptop stuff is just so they get hype and Dell will ship their stuff in Ubuntu laptops05:27
shadowbladeSo is there a way to revert to my old install? It seems like I could just put in my Gusty disc and "update" like I did downloading the hardy files05:27
Amaranthshadowblade: Downgrades are not supported and likely to break05:27
Nubbiecooldevices: so every time something breaks, you're content in just buying a new one.05:27
RAOFshadowblade: There's no way of reverting to gutsy without possibly breaking your system more.  It's a reinstall.05:27
shadowbladeOk, thanks05:28
Amaranthshadowblade: No one ever codes in a downgrade migration path so if something got migrated to a new setup on upgrade you're going to lose it on downgrade05:28
Nubbieshadowblade: better luck next time. stick to final releases.05:28
Nubbieshadowblade: i hate to sound brutal, but if you try to slog through the bugs, your system will correct itself....05:28
Amaranthcooldevices: For example, there are problems with nvidia and compiz that are very long lived and well known. They'll fix one (or make an attempt, anyway) only every so often when people start to get really upset and bad mouth them a lot.05:29
Nubbiei'd like to see ubuntu employ an automatic system to backup a previous release before upgrading.05:29
cooldevicesRAOF: millions of linux "programmers" who know how to fix drivers... and no working open source video driver?.. hmmm05:29
Nubbieshould save many newb's asses.05:29
Amaranthcooldevices: Actually we have an open source nvidia driver. For 2D it is even faster than nvidia's driver for some things05:30
Amaranth3D work is still in progress though05:30
Nubbiecooldevices: that's not the linux developers problems. the chip manufacturers won't release the SPECS on their hardware.05:30
cooldevicesAmaranth: i have long lived bugs with ubuntu since 7.04 which was not fixed yet05:30
Amaranthcooldevices: But you didn't pay us ;)05:30
RAOFcooldevices: Also, _fixing_ a problem in a driver is much easier than writing one from scratch with no idea about how the hardware works.05:30
DanaGthere's that bug.  I hate that one.05:31
Nubbiecooldevices: all the work on the drivers you use is thanks to the hard work many reverse engineers have accomplished.05:31
Amaranthcooldevices: And you have the ability to fix your problems if you put in the effort05:31
AnswerGuyI'm trying remaster a hardy LiveCD and change the default wallpaper --- and I can't seem to get it working.05:31
Amaranthcooldevices: I could fix the nvidia/compiz problems if they would let me05:31
RAOFDanaG: Wouldn't it be nice if nvidia fixed *that* :)05:31
NubbieAnswerGuy: it shouldn't be hard to locate the wallpaper file and to replace it with another file with an equal name...05:31
AnswerGuyIf I overwrite /usr/share/backgrounds/warty-final.png with my new graphic it works05:32
DanaGI actually haven't run into that one in a while.05:32
AnswerGuyBut how can I find where that is configured (so I can pick the name)05:32
AmaranthAnswerGuy: Right, make a package that diverts that file and put your own copy in05:32
AmaranthThis is how UbuntuStudio does it05:32
AmaranthTheir artwork packages just move aside the Ubuntu files and put their own in because changing the configuration is too much work05:33
AnswerGuyIt over-writes the file named warty-final.png?05:33
AmaranthIt diverts it05:33
TrustNoOnewhere to obtain latest official beta of hardy?05:33
Amaranthbasically a rename that dpkg can keep track of05:33
AnswerGuyThat seems gravely inelegant.05:33
NubbieTrustNoOne: Hardy is still ALPHA software.05:33
AnswerGuyNice that dpkg keeps track of it; but yuck05:33
AmaranthAnswerGuy: Not really, it's a pretty clean, simple, and robust solution05:33
NubbieTrustNoOne: do NOT install it on machines you need to rely on.05:33
AmaranthTrustNoOne: hardy is still alpha, no beta05:34
TrustNoOneNubbie, i know its still alpha05:34
NubbieTrustNoOne: that said... http://ubuntu.com/testing if it breaks, don't come complaining.05:34
AmaranthTrustNoOne: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing05:34
cooldevicesNubbie: isnt reverse enineering illegal?05:34
NubbieTrustNoOne: there's your warning.05:34
AmaranthBut alpha 5 will be out in a couple days05:34
Nubbiecooldevices: no.05:34
AnswerGuyWell, if I'm understanding it correctly the name warty-final.png is embedded somewhere in a binary ... that's ugly.05:34
Nubbiecooldevices: reverse engineering is absolutely legal.05:34
TrustNoOnereverse engineering is only illegal if you get caught ;)05:34
RAOFcooldevices: Depends on what you mean by "reverse engineering", and where you do it.05:34
AmaranthAnswerGuy: No, somewhere in gconf05:34
AnswerGuyIt should at least be named something like: default-background.png05:34
Nubbiecooldevices: so long as all code as a result is of original content.05:34
RAOFcooldevices: For example, in Europe, it's pretty much fair game whatever you want to do (IIRC).05:35
AmaranthAnswerGuy: Well, the idea was hoary would have hoary-final.png, then breezy would have breezy-final.png, etc05:35
Nubbiecooldevices: the only instance of reverse engineering being illegal is if you try to circumvent encryption schemes or DRM. and even then, it's only illegal in the US and a handful of other states.05:35
RAOFcooldevices: However, in the USA you're not allowed to reverse engineer binaries.  You're still welcome to do other reverse engineering.05:35
Kalamansibefore i can connect internet. but after i installed skype, i cannot connect to the internet...05:35
AnswerGuyYes, I guessed that.05:35
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
AmaranthAnswerGuy: But it is not easy to change the users configuration (and not a nice thing to do anyway) so to make sure they get the updated artwork the warty-final.png name was kept05:35
NubbieKalamansi: somebody else was in here with that problem.05:36
Amaranthif skype was open source I could fix that ;)05:36
Nubbiethe best solution is to avoid all closed source software.05:36
RAOFAmaranth: If skype was open source I wouldn't have to endure the crappy statically linked 32bit evilness!05:37
KalamansiAmaranth yes its opensource i guess. coz its debian? hehe not sure what im talking about hehehe05:37
DanaGI avoid skype.  It doesn't play well with PulseAudio.05:37
cooldevicesRAOF: who cares about laws in europe? they still have bears on the streets05:37
AmaranthKalamansi: Skype is closed source05:37
cooldevicesnot RIAA or Microsoft05:37
Amaranthcooldevices: You do realize your audience here is people up late in the US and people up early in Europe, right?05:37
RAOFOr people during business hours in .AU!05:38
KalamansiAmaranth it was working before..but when reinstalling ubuntu again it wont work05:38
Kalamansii dont have internet now05:38
Kalamansiafter installing skype05:38
Nubbiecooldevices: you'll open your eyes some day.05:38
AmaranthRAOF: People in Australia don't really exist, that's a liberal lie meant to scare young children05:38
RAOFWe're all just vamprie ghosts, anyway.05:38
cooldevicesAmaranth: what i mean is US companies not going to respect EU laws, if you reverse engineer windows or nvidia driver, where it leads?05:38
Kalamansidhcp wont work too05:39
Nubbiecooldevices: it leads to new laws being created.05:39
RAOFcooldevices: If you do your reverse engineering in Europe, no where.05:39
DanaGIt's 9:39 PM here -- Pacific Time.05:39
Amaranthcooldevices: Actually we have this cool UN treaty that means they do respect these laws05:39
DanaGDST?  Beats me.05:39
AmaranthFor copyrights and patents, anyway05:39
AmaranthWell, except for software patents05:39
DanaGWhat's this about vampires?05:40
Nubbiecooldevices: reverse engineering is essential. if the law should be upheld, the public should not be forced into proprietary monopolies.05:40
Nubbiecooldevices: the law will change.05:40
AmaranthAnd reverse engineering is allowed in the US too05:40
RAOFDanaG: Australia is populated by vampire ghosts.  I thought everyone knew that.05:40
AmaranthBut to be safe from legal issues you do clean room reverse engineering05:40
cooldevicesNubbie: not before US taked over whole world05:40
Nubbieone of the reasons Canada is still a safe place for the internet and technology in general.05:40
Nubbiecooldevices: that's childish.05:40
Nubbiecooldevices: where are you from?05:41
AmaranthWhich is basically one group of people documenting "when you do this you get this output" and another group using that documentation to write a clone05:41
DanaGThe only vampire I'd ever want to meet is one Evangeline A.K. McDowell.05:41
RAOFWhoops!  There goes /var/log getting filled with debug spam again.05:42
RAOFThings break in surprising ways when you can't create files on /05:42
DanaGMy /var/log is only 116M.05:42
RAOFDanaG: mine is 470Mb, but that's just because that's all the free space I have on / :)05:43
DanaGHmm, how big is the partition, and how big is the drive?05:44
RAOFI've had it grow to > 2 GB.05:44
RAOFThe partition is 10G, which is usually plenty :)05:44
DanaGMy partition is 20G.05:44
RAOFIt used to be 5GB ;)05:44
* TrustNoOne just enters conversation05:45
TrustNoOnewhats goin on?05:45
* DanaG has the Hitachi 7k200-200 in his notebook.05:45
Nubbiei usually keep my / partition around 15G... only because i install a lot of big games heheh.05:45
TrustNoOnegames on linux?05:45
RAOFOh, yeah.  I suppose OpenArena took up a fair whallop.05:45
RAOFThat'd be why.05:45
TronicTrustNoOne: There are plenty.05:45
Nubbieopenarena <305:45
Amaranthmost of my games are installed in ~/.wine/drive_c/05:46
Nubbiebattle for wesnoth!05:46
TrustNoOneya but not GREAT ones, just old ones05:46
Tronic(and I am NOT talking about Tuxracer or ID's old games)05:46
AmaranthTrustNoOne: Tremulous is awesome05:46
NubbieAmaranth: blast your windows addiction.05:46
TrustNoOneya like WoW and source...05:46
TrustNoOnenot CoD4 :D05:46
DanaGGames don't like PulseAudio.05:46
TronicTrustNoOne: Frets on Fire, UltraStarNG, TA Spring. All new and good.05:46
AmaranthNubbie: It's portal, gotta have portal05:46
Nubbiezomg tremulous is my FAV open source game.05:46
cooldevicesTrustNoOne: actually urban terror is as great as CS16 or COD, or even better05:46
TrustNoOnedont like frets :( like GH more05:46
DanaGAnd PulseAudio doesn't use the 'surround51' plugin with my Audigy.05:46
TronicTrustNoOne: Better than their commercial counterparts, even.05:46
TrustNoOne"imitation" games05:46
AmaranthAmerica's Army is a good one too05:46
TrustNoOneits like saying twonkies are as good as twinkies but they still taste different05:47
TronicFoF runs better than GH3 on PC.05:47
TrustNoOnei know but its not as sexually appealing05:47
TrustNoOnejust use ps3 for games instead  and got yellow dog on there05:47
cooldevicesTrustNoOne: actually i was dissapointed with most new windows games, old games was better, ID proving it by remarketing quake 3 as quake live05:48
TronicYes, the new FoF graphics are somewhat depressing, now that they try to imitate GH. The original 2D flame thing was much nicer.05:48
AmaranthFrets vs GH05:48
TrustNoOnewell depends, i dont PC game much, more console gaming since it requires less config and my 62 inch HDTV supplements it better than a 19 inch monitor ;)05:48
Nubbieoooo urban terror looks good.05:48
TrustNoOnegot GH3 on ps3, its great except the guitar is a PoS05:49
AmaranthTrustNoOne: But you're at most 2 feet from your 19" monitor and at least 10 feet from your TV so I think the TV is actually smaller05:49
TrustNoOneFoF = Frets on Fire05:49
TronicDanaG: A Guitar Hero clone for PC.05:49
* DanaG plays mostly only HL2-based games.05:49
AmaranthDanaG: The cake is a lie05:49
TronicUltrastarNG is a Singstar clone for Linux and Mac.05:50
TrustNoOnethe last level of portal was not good05:50
TrustNoOneit was creepy05:50
AmaranthPortal was _awesome_05:50
cooldevicesi dont like orange box05:50
TronicTA Spring is a Supreme Commander "clone", created before SC was.05:50
TrustNoOnefastest time to beat portal was 1 hour 14 minutes05:50
DanaGOh, I know of Frets on Fire; I just didn't know the abbreviation.05:50
Amaranththe only part i didn't like was it was over too soon05:50
RAOFAmaranth: Which gave it the added charm of not wearing out its welcome.05:50
DanaGI don't like how it crashes if you use the portal gun on the wrong material in HL2 maps.05:50
Amaranthbut then again if it was longer the story might have been more forced to fill in the time05:50
* RAOF agrees with GDC: Game of the Year? Portal.05:50
TrustNoOneAmaranth, the ending fools you tho, you think its short like other levels but it takes like 20 minutes05:50
DanaGOh, and if you spawn a barnacle under a portal and then feed it something, the game crashes.05:51
Amaranthheh, longer than that05:51
twbOn both server and desktop alpha4 images, /etc/pam.d refers to pam_foreground.so, which isn't installed by default.  This results in spurious garbage in /var/log/auth.log, and should probably be removed.05:51
TrustNoOnefastest time to beat portal?05:51
FlannelHey guys, I've got a question as to how Dapper -> Hardy upgrades are working if there's no linux-image-686 transitional packages in hardy? (or at least, not on the alt CD or in packages.ubuntu.com)05:51
RAOFtwb: Please file a bug.05:51
AmaranthTrustNoOne: I'm not interested in speed05:51
DanaGYay, wine is segfaulting.05:51
DanaGSegmentation fault (core dumped)05:51
AmaranthDanaG: Yeah, it does that05:51
RAOFDanaG: Known problem.05:51
Amaranthbut it doesn't do it here :D05:51
twbRAOF: I'm not prepared to use launchpad.05:51
Amaranthtwb: Why not?05:51
TrustNoOneAmaranth, thats the whole point of portal is speed05:51
DanaGI also haven't installed the new HAL because I've heard it breaks battery reporting.05:52
RAOFDanaG: The winehq gutsy package works fine.  You can find out about aptitude forbid-version05:52
sweetsinseit does05:52
TrustNoOneAmaranth, didnt you do secondary missions where you have to beat it fast?05:52
twbAmaranth: because I cannot register without using a graphical browser05:52
AmaranthTrustNoOne: It's actually a pretty detailed environment05:52
Amaranthtwb: oh?05:52
sweetsinsei have 2 battery indicators05:52
RAOFDanaG: Well, for me it actually fixes my "2 batteries reported" problem.05:52
twbAmaranth: that I have to register to file bugs at all demonstrates you don't want my help.05:52
Amaranthdid they add a captcha?05:52
TrustNoOneG2G, watch supernatural :) wheee bbl05:52
DanaGThat's been "fixed"..... by showing only ONE battery.... that doesn't update.05:52
twbSince I can't reproduce this bug under Debian, I'm not reporting it to Debian as I do for other Ubuntu bugs I find.  But I thought I should at least mention it.05:52
Amaranthtwb: If you plan to file bugs and not keep track of their status then no, we really don't want your bug reports05:52
sweetsinseyou register becasue the bug reports cant be polluted with anonymous posters05:53
twbAmaranth: I can track Debian bug reports without having to prove that my email address belongs to me05:53
RAOFDanaG: Oooh.  I'll need to check that (removes AC)05:53
sweetsinseyou dont have to prove anything mon05:53
Amaranthtwb: Your reports will just take time from triagers marking them as Incomplete when you inevitably forget some information then going back and marking them Invalid when you never come back to give said information05:53
twbAmaranth: nor do I need to use a web browser to "set up" the ability to report bugs to Debian -- I can just use reportbug(1) on a system that has a working MTA05:53
Amaranthtwb: You could use Debian then?05:54
AmaranthNothing stopping you.05:54
twbI do use Debian for my own projects.05:54
twbI am in the deplorable situation of being forced to use Ubuntu on customer systems because I can't convince them otherwise.05:54
twbIt is, of course, preferable to putting RHEL on their systems.05:54
Amaranthyes well, we do good grassroots marketing :)05:54
sweetsinsehey man not everyone is ready to jump into linux head first05:55
sweetsinseubuntu makes the hill a little shallower05:55
RAOFDanaG: My battery updates.  And it's only showing one now.05:55
Amaranthsweetsinse: The difference between Debian and Ubuntu is a somewhat large bunch of patches and a default setup05:55
sweetsinsei have converted alot of ppl, and now they look into linux stuff themselves and branch from tere05:56
twbsweetsinse: that may be the case, but I *KNOW* how to drive Debian and being forced to use Ubuntu (which is less easy, for me) is annoying.05:56
twbforced in order to win the contract, I mean.05:56
Amaranthtwb: They work almost the exact same way though05:56
DanaGMine also shows one of the two as Product: Ignored Device05:56
AmaranthWe try very hard to keep as little delta as possible05:56
DanaGAnd that's the one that doesn't update.05:56
twbAmaranth: apart from launchpad!05:56
Amaranthtwb: You have to file bug reports using a tool regular users can figure out, yes.05:57
twbThe lack of reportbug and bts support is probably what annoys me most about Ubuntu05:57
AmaranthAlthough there is a mail interface too05:57
AmaranthBut you have to register before you can use it05:57
twbAmaranth: I'm not interested in the needs of "regular" users; I'm interested in the needs of *me*.05:57
twbI know all about the mail interface to launchpad05:57
RAOFAnd if you've set up your GPG keys it's as functional as the Debian BTS, too.05:58
reya276can anyone help fix some video driver issues05:58
AnswerGuyI despise gconf205:58
AmaranthAnswerGuy: Just do the diversion, much easier05:58
RAOFAnswerGuy: Because?05:58
twbThe launhpad mail interface needs me to login via the web interface to set up the GPG key -- which means I need a GUI browser at least once.05:58
sweetsinsei dont know ubuntu helped me into linux a couple years back, and it wasnt very easy at first and im a programmer/webdev/etc...  average user is much less05:58
Amaranthtwb: w3m?05:58
twbI find this sufficiently offensive that I refuse to use launchpad05:58
twbAmaranth: you cannot login to launchpad using w3m, lynx, links, elinks or links2.05:58
DanaGArgh, timidity is buggy.05:59
tritiumThere is nothing offensive about it.05:59
twbAmaranth: I think I also tried netrik05:59
DanaGTry pulseaudio wrapping it.05:59
twbtritium: that is your opinion.05:59
sweetsinsei helped a guy add arabic to gnome yesterday and hotkey toggle it05:59
DanaGIt drops out sometimes, and then freezes.05:59
RAOFtwb: Rather, we think you have a low 'offensiveness' threshold.05:59
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Amaranthtwb: ah, cookie problems06:00
Amaranththey are very strict06:00
twbAmaranth: yes.  The launchpad developers said they would not fix this issue.06:00
tritiumthis conversation is too trollfensive for me, then06:00
twbtritium: then by all means killfile me.06:00
reya276right now is defaulting to the Vesa driver instead of ATI or fglrx06:01
RAOFreya276: Can you pastebin your /etc/X11/xorg.conf file?06:01
Amaranthtwb: You mean to tell me you don't have a single machine that has X installed?06:01
Amaranthtwb: And have no machine that can boot a LiveCD?06:01
RAOFreya276: And your /var/log/Xorg.0.log06:01
twbAmaranth: no.  I mean to say that GUI browsers are very painful to use and forcing me to use one makes it too hard for me to report bugs to you.06:02
DanaGPainful?  In what way?  Is it an accessibility thing?06:02
Amaranthtwb: Then we don't care to receive your bug reports, problem solved.06:02
tritiumWow, low skill level.06:02
cooldevicesAmaranth: now this offensive06:03
cooldevicesisnt ubuntu server comes without X?06:03
twbcooldevices: ubuntu server does not install X by default.06:04
reya276ok here is my xorg.0.log file http://www.pastebin.org/2069906:04
Amaranthcooldevices: You can boot a LiveCD that has X06:04
twbcooldevices: it's backed by the same repository as the rest of ubuntu, so you can install it later.06:04
RAOFAnd you only need to use a graphical browser *once*.  After you've set it up, you *can* just use a mailer + GPG keys.06:04
twbRAOF: yes.  hand-crafting bug reports, too.06:05
DanaGWhy DO you say GUI browsers are painful?  Frankly, I am curious.06:05
reya276and this is my xorg.conf file http://www.pastebin.org/2070006:05
cooldevicesDanaG: i think he free to decide which browser to use06:06
twbDanaG: for example, they lack the ability to pipe the marked region into arbitrary shell commands.06:06
twbDanaG: they lack the ablitiy to grep over the region or the buffer06:06
DanaGSurely there must be some Firefox extension to do that, or something.06:06
twbDanaG: probably, but I'd prefer it to Just Work out of the box, like it does when browsing from Emacs.06:07
RAOFreya276: Try adding 'Driver "ati"' (without the ') to the Configured Video Device section.06:08
sweetsinseeveryone wants it to 'just work'.. hence ubuntu06:08
cooldeviceswhat if someone have X problem, so it cant use it to file bug?06:08
sweetsinse:( there is never going to be an alpha 506:10
reya276RAOF: ok did that, do I reboot, restart xserver?06:10
RAOFreya276: Restart X server should do.06:10
RAOFreya276: And by that, I mean just log out.06:10
cooldevicesand... why ubuntu server comes without X if it is required for support?06:11
RAOFBecause it isn't.06:11
RAOFYou need t06:11
RAOFYou need to use a graphical browser once in order to set up a LP account.  From then on, you can do everything you want with $TEXT_MODE_MAIL_CLIENT of choice.06:11
twbcooldevices: I think it's assumed that if you're going to be reporting bugs, you've got another box somewhere else with firefox on it.06:11
tritiumcooldevices: support is offered in many forms, including IRC.  X is not required for support.06:12
twbAt least, as RAOF say, once.06:12
cooldevicestritium: IRC is not for filing bugs06:12
RAOFtwb: Which, you have to admit, is not a high bar to set.06:12
tritiumcooldevices: I didn't say it was.06:12
tritiumwhen did I say support = filing bugs?06:12
cooldeviceswhat are we discussin now?06:13
cooldevicesproblem with filing bugs, and this may be essential for getting support06:13
twbRAOF: it is inconvenient, as is having to remember the syntax accepted by the launchpad mail interface, as is collecting version and debconf data by hand.06:13
tritiumcooldevices: I was replying to _your_ statement about X being required for *support*06:13
tritiumYour choice of words, not mine.06:13
cooldevices11:13:30 AM) cooldevices: problem with filing bugs, and this may be essential for getting support06:13
tritium23:11 < cooldevices> and... why ubuntu server comes without X if it is required  for support?06:14
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RAOFtwb: I *think* that Ubuntu's reportbug is primed for launchpad, but I'm not sure.06:14
twbRAOF: it's not06:14
twbRAOF: it sends it to ubuntu-users, which is a subscribed-only list06:14
RAOFtwb: Patches welcome? :)06:14
twbYeah, I haven't got around to it.06:15
RAOFYou might be interested in the python-launchpad-bugs package.06:16
RAOFIf you'd like to write your bug report from a python console it may be useful for you without modification :)06:16
twbNot especially.06:17
RAOFDanaG: Oh, no.  You're right.  The battery updates exactly once.06:25
cooldevices twb: isnt servers ussualy have no DVD drives... to run livecd06:30
twbcooldevices: that depends largely on what you mean by `server'06:30
DanaGYou could install a bare X server and a very simple window manager, such as a tiling WM.06:30
cooldevicesand probably no monitors too, to run this X thingy06:30
DanaGThen try something like the 'netsurf' browser.06:31
DanaGOr install a "fake" x server for vnc.06:31
twbcooldevices: most of my servers are not physical machines, but emulated by a grunty rack-mounted machine.  I interact with them via ssh.06:31
twbDanaG: xvnc isn't "fake".06:31
twbnetsurf's form support is still unusable.06:32
DanaGHmm, what are some other minimal browsers?06:33
twbWell, it might be good enough for stuff like the google front-page, as long as you don't need to type non-ASCII.06:33
twbDanaG: dillo.06:33
twbDanaG: libwebkitgdk006:33
twbThe latter also has form support issues in its proof-of-concept browser.06:33
twbI'm also a big fan of html2ps URL | ps2pdf | with-temp-file evince06:34
DanaGWell, if you already use evince, then you must have X..... right?06:34
TrustNoOnewow supernatural was awesome06:35
twbDanaG: yes.06:36
twbAlthough obviously not on the Ubuntu servers.06:37
cooldevicesis firefox open source?06:39
TronicYes, but not quite free enough for some.06:39
TronicGoogle for iceweasel and mozilla branding, if you want to know more.06:40
twbFirefox is open source and free software; the related TRADEMARKs are not DFSG-free.06:40
twb17:40 <dpkg> Why iceweasel? Debian cannot comply with the conditions necessary to distribute firefox and call it firefox, so we have changed the name to iceweasel. See http://bugs.debian.org/354622 or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naming_conflict_between_Debian_and_Mozilla for more information.06:40
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Nubbiealpha 5....06:46
Nubbieis it live yet?06:47
cooldevicesgames almost always crash when trying to change resolution, and desktop not return to normal resolution, and now my mouse was frozen, when trying to change resolution in frets on fire06:53
cooldevicesbut now game start with new resolution06:53
mcquaidhas alpha 5 slipped?06:54
mcquaidah nm i see delayed till 2206:55
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cooldevicesit IS 22 lol07:00
corevettewhat are the advantages of pulse audio over the old system?07:00
RAOFcorevette: Per-stream audio policies, better network transparency, better latency characteristics.07:01
cooldevicesmany, like cross applications mixer (but i cant find it) like in VISTA07:01
RAOF!ohmy > Nubbie07:02
NubbieRAOF: you're disappointed the alpha got held back too, don't lie to yourself :)07:02
twbPulseaudio is a replacement for alsa?07:02
RAOFtwb: No, for ESD.07:03
twbAh, that makes more sense.07:03
cooldeviceswhere is new mixer?07:03
RAOFAlthough you can use an alsa plugin to get unmodified alsa apps to use pulse.07:03
corevettecooldevices: so you can control all application volume like in vista?07:03
twbAlthough it always seemed to me the main point of esd was to be able to play music and have GNOME go beep when you resize windows and things07:03
RAOFPretty much, yes.  Or, in fact, to let GNOME make any sound at all.07:04
cooldeviceslol so it was not bug that i have no sound in openarena when playing mp3?07:04
RAOFpulseaudio cleans your dishes, too.07:04
NubbieESD was developed as a wrapper for the sound device so no one program controls the audio sink. ESD combines all sounds into one signal to be sent to the sink.07:04
twbDoesn't alsa do that now anyway?07:05
RAOFWith dmix, yes.07:05
Nubbietwb: but pulse audio does it better.07:05
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Nubbiemuch much better.07:05
RAOFAlso, you get a real sound server too.07:05
Nubbiemmhrmm... ie. send this sound to another computer server heheh.07:06
twbYou mean like NAS?07:06
RAOFWell, what I actually meant was "play login sound now".07:06
Nubbiei look forward to tuning in all my computers into a single audio server to play my music all over the house.07:06
cooldevicesso now i will have sound in openareana when playing music in music player?07:06
RAOFNubbie: My laptop is, as I speak, piping rhythmbox through to my server connected to the stereo.07:06
NubbieRAOF: i found pulseaudio intriguing when i used it last.07:07
DanaGPulseAudio can also do nifty stuff with multiple audio devices.07:07
Nubbiethe GUI's could have used some polishing and love though.07:07
RAOFYup, definitely.07:07
Nubbiei have a good idea for a new volume applet...07:08
cooldeviceswhat gui?07:08
Nubbieit would function similarly to the current one.07:08
Nubbiea mouse scroll over the icon will change the master volume levels, while clicking it reveals a list of each application using the server with a volume bar next to each one.07:08
Nubbiekinda like a drop down list of volume bars heheh.07:09
cooldevices Nubbie: i have vlc and rhythbox each playing music, and i have only 1 volume bar with left-click07:14
Nubbiecooldevices: of course... that's because you aren't using my idea for a volume applet... because it's non-existent. it's just an idea.07:17
cooldevices(12:07:28 PM) Nubbie: the GUI's could have used some polishing and love though.  ---- what gui?07:18
Nubbiecooldevices: the pulse audio ones. when i installed pulse audio it didn't integrate with my desktop to my liking.07:18
cooldeviceshow i can run pulse audio gui?07:18
Nubbieobviously the ubuntu devs are working on that now that it's going to be a major upgrade to the distribution.07:19
Nubbieafaik they didn't include the gui's in this alpha.07:19
DanaGpadevchooser is one thing to install.07:20
cooldevicesshows no playback streams07:24
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DanaGAre you playing anything?07:26
DanaGHmm, perhaps it's not using pulseaudio.07:27
DanaGLook in system->preferences->sound07:27
Assidanyone know if the flash no sound issue is solved?07:29
cooldevicesDanaG: yeah now it works... but i required also choose pulse audio in players... may it just force itself as default device?07:31
DanaGSure.  Install libasound2-plugins and then do 'asoundconf set-pulseaudio'07:32
DanaGbut be aware that some apps break badly with it.07:32
DanaGExample: Skype.07:32
Assiderr.. is pulseaudio responsible for my flash videos not having sound?07:32
cooldevicesbtw i cant control balance, it is same for both channels....07:32
cooldevicesoh nvm i found it07:33
Assidoh wait.. i see a bug similar to what i have07:33
cooldeviceslol now openarena refuses to start07:35
cooldevicesbut forcing work for vlc07:35
DanaGOh, for flash: libflashsupport07:37
Assidif i unmount drives before i logout/shutdown why does it munt up automatically when i login07:37
NubbieAssid: because by default ubuntu mounts everything attached to your computer.07:38
cooldeviceslol now pulse audio frozened with badly "loop" sound07:38
Assidyeah but the internal drives.. it really should remember the "state" right ?07:39
NubbieAssid: why is that? if you don't want it mounting automatically, remove it from your fstab.07:39
Nubbieassid: or don't remove it, just add the 'noauto' attribute.07:40
prg3Just ran across something interesting.. "apt-get remove nano" tries to pull out ubuntu-base..07:41
Nubbienano is an essential editing tool.07:42
AssidNubbie: it isnt in my fstab07:42
NubbieAssid: if it's an internal drive, it must be in your fstab.07:43
cooldevicesi cant disable "tracker search" (btw one more feature from vista lol), i disable checkboxes "indexing" and "watching", and its still running, animating, "status: indexing in progress" etc.07:43
Nubbiecooldevices: are you kidding? ubuntu's had desktop search tools long before windows.07:43
Amaranthactually we've had search tools like this longer than both OS X and Windows07:43
AssidNubbie: no i disabled it the time i installed ubuntu07:43
AmaranthI'd like to believe Spotlight was inspired by Dashboard/Beagle07:44
prg3Nubbie: I've never used it :)07:44
Amaranthcooldevices: What other features do you think we got from Vista?07:44
cooldevicesactually places->search for files tool was not able for find files for me in 7.1007:44
NubbieAmaranth: steve jobs would like to believe he invented UNIX.07:44
DanaGThat little blinky icon is so irritating.07:44
DanaGThe indexing itself is fine, but I hate the animatedness.07:45
Nubbiecooldevices: if you want to turn off tracker, turn it off in the services dialogue.07:45
Amaranthcooldevices: Just because we've had the tools doesn't mean they've been ready for mass use or installed and integrated by default into distros07:45
cooldevicesAmaranth: well sorry about that vista thing07:45
DanaGNaah, I just want to un-animate the **** icon.07:45
Amaranthcooldevices: No, seriously, I want to know07:45
Nubbiecooldevices: it's fanboyism, and it's totally not needed.07:45
cooldevicesNubbie: what exactly fanboism?07:46
cooldevicesrunnin ubuntu is fanboism? i agree07:46
cooldevicesi just have no money to buy os07:46
* DanaG wants to have the Heron wallpaper made into a case skin.07:46
cooldevicesbut used to love ubuntu now07:46
DanaGThat'd be awesome.07:46
Nubbiecooldevices: if you can't afford windows, steal it.07:47
Nubbiecooldevices: obviously you're still married to it.07:47
cooldeviceswell... i kind of dont need it anymore07:47
Assidokay this is odd07:47
Amaranthcooldevices: Seriously, I'm not 'mad' or anything, what features do you think we have that come from Vista?07:47
Assidmount doesnt show my swap07:47
Amaranthcooldevices: Maybe you're right, maybe I can show you where they really come from (probably OS X :)07:48
DanaGThe other day, I found my swap partition had randomly become not a swap partition.07:48
NubbieAssid: because swap isn't mounted.07:48
AmaranthDanaG: Filed to hibernate?07:48
NubbieAssid: swap isn't really even a file system.07:48
Amarantherr, failed07:48
DanaGI'm not sure.07:48
DanaGI've tried suspend-to-disk, and it suspends fine, but often doesn't even bother TRYing to resume.07:48
Amaranthhibernating destroys your swap partition then regenerates it on resume07:48
cooldevicesAmaranth: to be exact, i'm not saying they are from vista... i'm aware of features like that in MacOSX etc, it is just look for me this way... what another features look this way? let me think...07:49
AmaranthDanaG: need to add a resume= option in your grub kernel line07:49
AmaranthDanaG: resume=/dev/sda5 or whatever07:49
Assidhow do i know what the uuid of a paritition is ?07:49
NubbieAmaranth: nah, hibernation just freezes ram and throws it all to swap.07:49
DanaGvol_id -u07:49
AmaranthAssid: volid07:49
AmaranthNubbie: It's a bit more complicated than that07:49
AmaranthNubbie: But it doesn't dump it to swap, it basically dd's it over the swap partition07:50
AmaranthWhich destroys it07:50
NubbieAmaranth: yeah like the L1 and L2 caches right?07:50
Nubbieoh i didn't know that. so if resuming fails, the swap partition isn't recreated07:50
Amaranthno, we don't care about caches07:50
Amaranthwe throw all of those away07:50
Nubbieisn't dd somewhat dangerous a tool to use?07:50
AmaranthNubbie: Right, you have to remake it with swapon07:50
AmaranthIt's not literally dd07:50
Assidoh wait.. i want to know about resume/hibernating07:50
AssidAmaranth: shouldnt the hibernate automatically suspend to disk ?07:51
DanaGOdd, it didn't hibernate.  It popped back to desktop.07:52
Assidthe one from the logout options07:52
AmaranthAssid: hibernate means suspend-to-disk so i certainly hope so07:52
cooldevicesAmaranth: actually new between-app mixer look like from vista too, and that feature is not "long before vista", it was implemented in vista 1 year ago, and not in ubuntu07:52
AmaranthDanaG: Something inhibiting suspend?07:52
Assidokay lemme try it07:52
Amaranthcooldevices: But pulseaudio has been around for years07:52
Nubbiea kernel update sometime after feisty's release finally got sleep/hibernation working for me.07:52
Amaranthand pulseaudio is what gives that feature07:52
AssidAmaranth: do i need to add resume=... to the grub line ?07:53
cooldevicesAmaranth: maybe, why it is not in ubuntu then?07:53
Assidor will it know what to do07:53
Nubbiecooldevices: you should do more research before preaching in here.07:53
AmaranthAssid: If your problem is that you can hibernate but resume just does a fresh boot then yes07:53
Amaranthcooldevices: Because it was not considered 1) done and 2) worth having07:53
DanaG!google pulpaudio.07:53
Assidlast time around (2 weeks back) was when i tried hibernating.. it just sat there with the cursor on the first line07:54
DanaGthe old name.07:54
Assidthe system didnt go to hibernation mode (power normally blinks). But this time was constantly on07:54
Nubbiecooldevices: nearly every single new feature in vista was ripped off linux, or OSX. the only vaguely unique ideas are using free space on flash drives as swap, and the "hybrid" drive usage.07:54
cooldevicesNubbie: lol07:54
Assidnevertheless let me try again07:54
AmaranthEveryone rips off everyone07:55
Nubbiecooldevices: it's absolutely true.07:55
AmaranthBut almost all of the "exciting new features" in Vista come from somewhere else07:55
Nubbiecooldevices: give me one "new" feature from vista, and i will disprove it's originality for you.07:55
cooldevices.NET anyone? bright future of GNOME07:55
Amaranthcooldevices: and?07:55
Nubbiecooldevices: .NET is not a new feature.07:55
cooldevicesNET3 is07:55
DanaGOOooooh, 40 to 50 megabytes per second.07:55
Nubbiecooldevices: is that a new version of an old idea?07:56
* DanaG loves having a 7k200-200.07:56
Amaranthcooldevices: It is an alternative to Python for applications, it will not be used for core parts of the system or key libraries, just like Python isn't07:56
AmaranthDanaG: My laptop gets 4207:56
cooldevicesAmaranth: d-bus?07:56
DanaGThis is about 2/3 of the way through the disk, starting at the front.07:56
Nubbiecooldevices: dbus is a new feature of windows eh...07:57
Amaranthcooldevices: DBus is a more featureful and cross-desktop implementation of dcop from KDE07:57
AmaranthIt replaces CORBA in GNOME07:57
cooldevicesi know07:57
cooldevicesand it is rewritten in mono07:57
AmaranthErr, no07:57
DanaGNifty thingy:07:58
Nubbiecooldevices: the only reason it was rewritten in mono was to port some linux applications to windows.07:58
DanaG!info wmhdplop07:58
ubotuwmhdplop (source: wmhdplop): A hard drive activity monitor dockapp. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.9-1 (hardy), package size 28 kB, installed size 124 kB07:58
AmaranthThere is a C# version of libdbus, which is used for clients, not the dbus server07:58
cooldevicesNubbie: wrong07:58
Nubbiecooldevices: ie porting banshee to windows.07:58
AmaranthNubbie: Nope07:58
Amaranthdbus is C07:58
AmaranthThe ndesk thing is a rewrite of libdbus in C# because regular libdbus bindings are tricky to use in C# apps07:59
cooldevicesyou should do more research before preaching in here.07:59
cooldevicesabout dbus07:59
AmaranthOnly C# apps use this07:59
Nubbiecooldevices: so how is dbus a windows vista feature?07:59
cooldevicesit was said to  Nubbie:07:59
AmaranthEveryone else still uses libdbus, the C version07:59
cooldevicesNubbie: NET is windows feature lol07:59
AmaranthThe dbus server is still written in C07:59
Amaranth.NET is an open standard created by microsoft07:59
Nubbiecooldevices: read, the server is NOT written in NET.07:59
AmaranthBut it's nothing special, really08:00
cooldevicesactually gnome devs have long plans for useing mono... for rewriting other apps08:00
Amaranthcooldevices: Hi, I'm a GNOME dev. You're misinformed08:00
Amaranthcooldevices: No one is rewriting working apps in C# just for the sake of doing it08:01
cooldeviceswell nice to meet one lol)08:01
Nubbiecooldevices: so we should be badgering windows for using C, a language written by some other software devs.08:01
Amaranthcooldevices: You can write evolution plugins in C#, iirc08:01
Amaranthand tomboy is written in C#08:01
Nubbiecooldevices: .NET is not a new feature in vista, get off that horse.08:01
Amaranthnothing else actually in GNOME has anything to do with C#08:01
cooldevicesNubbie: you horse08:02
mshooshtar1How's the Alpha5 going?08:02
Nubbiecooldevices: mono doesn't even ship with ubuntu if i recall.08:02
AmaranthNubbie: It does08:02
AmaranthNubbie: We have tomboy and f-spot08:02
Amaranthmshooshtar1: Ask again in 12 hours or so :)08:02
NubbieAmaranth: ohh right. i'm still back in breezy days :P08:02
Amaranthmshooshtar1: Actually don't ask at all, just wait for the announcement08:02
cooldevicesNubbie: you should do more research before preaching in here.08:02
Nubbiecooldevices: dude, my mistakes have nothing to do with windows.08:03
mshooshtar1I should just be happy with gutsy for now08:03
Amaranthcooldevices: Calm08:03
DanaGOooooooh, hibernate worked.08:03
Assidok hibernation is messed up08:03
Amaranthmshooshtar1: Yes, hardy is not ready for regular use08:03
Assidwhile going to hibernation i got something like usb 1-3 clear tt  .....08:03
NubbieAssid: apparently DanaG knows what he's doing :)08:03
Amaranthalpha 5 doesn't change that08:03
Assidand a whole page full of it08:03
NubbieAssid: yeah those error messages don't mean much. it would be nice if they could clean those up though....08:03
DanaGI had to use /dev/sda5 rather than uuid, because uuid on swap seems to change.08:03
AssidNubbie: didnt say DanaG didnt.08:04
DanaGI also had to do that with my fstab.08:04
mshooshtar1I love playing in the blood though.08:04
AmaranthDanaG: Yes, uuid changes when you format the partition :)08:04
NubbieAssid: i mean, look to him for help ;)08:04
Assidalso when i resumed.. i got back to x.. got stuck in a white screen.. didnt go anywhere :(08:04
Amaranthanything else you want to pick my brain about? :)08:04
AmaranthAssid: nvidia?08:05
mshooshtar1meaning bleeding edge, not some sort of psychotic thing.08:05
AmaranthAssid: blindly type in your password, you're looking at gnome-screensaver08:05
DanaGHow do you change the UUID of an HFS+ partition?08:05
Nubbiemshooshtar1: good, i was worried for a minute lol.08:05
DanaGI have two partitions with the same UUID, and it thoroughly confuses gnome-volume-manager.08:05
NubbieDanaG: HFS+ is the devil's child.08:05
Assidand the time it took to resume was the same amt of time to restart08:05
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AmaranthAssid: The problem is when you do a VT switch away from the X server the nvidia driver will no longer allocate memory for textures. Since you're using compiz every window is a texture, gnome-screensaver is a fullscreen one. Thus, fullscreen blank texture.08:06
mshooshtar1I suppose the thing I'm waiting most for is the new Xorg stuff being finished completely, it was late for Gutsy so was not implemented.08:06
* DanaG has his PC as a hackintosh, but only boots OS X about once every 2 or 3 or more weeks.08:06
Amaranthmshooshtar1: What stuff in particular?08:06
Assidi see.. so if i punch in the password.. will the driver start re-allocating?08:06
mshooshtar1I was having problems with webex and desktop sharing and wanted to try that out with somebody.08:06
AssidDanaG: hackintosh didnt want to start installing on mine :|08:07
AmaranthAssid: Yes, it is only windows created while X is not active that have problems08:07
AmaranthAssid: So only that gnome-screensaver window08:07
* DanaG is lucky: I have TPM, I have HPET, I have ICH7-M southbridge, I have GeForce GO 7600.08:07
AssidAmaranth: fair enough .. will try again08:07
mshooshtar1If you give me a moment, I could probably find the specific thing with xorg that was getting complaints.08:07
AmaranthAny other windows that might have popped up in the short time before you hibernated can be minimized and restored to get their texture wiped and reallocated08:07
AssidAmaranth: any drop in performance  otherwise ?08:08
Nubbiemshooshtar1: plug and play projector configuration....08:08
AssidAmaranth:  i got one of those jmicron ich908:08
AmaranthAssid: The OpenGL sync to vblank extension is completely hosed on resume from hibernate, can't remember if that is for running applications or new ones too. That is the reason we disable sync to vblank in compiz and why you cannot enable it and do suspend08:08
AmaranthAssid: This means OpenGL applications will either be broken or work harder rendering frames that you don't even see but that is not a huge problem08:09
Assidmy main issue atm is i can never logout of x08:10
Nubbiethat is a bad problem08:10
AmaranthAh yes, that is a fun one. Usually only happens with fglrx though08:10
AssidAmaranth: considering the amount of time it takes to resume and restart.. i think i might avoid hibernation08:10
AmaranthAnd of course when you logout X is restarted automatically so you can't even logout08:10
AmaranthAssid: You can install uswsusp, it'll compress the image as it writes it out to disk08:11
AmaranthSince the entire process is IO bound (your HD is much slower than your CPU) this means it'll go faster because it has less to write and less to read back08:11
Assiderr no .. my problem is .. i cant logout/shufdown/ restart. X just gets hung . I have to actually CTRL ALT BKSPC for X to renice which then lets the processes such as reboot/logout/shutdown to take place08:11
AmaranthBut yes, hibernation is almost completely worthless unless you _really_ need to save the current state of what you have running exactly08:11
AssidAmaranth:  ^^^ - exactly.. gonna avoid it for now08:12
Amaranthsuspend-to-ram is much more interesting08:12
DanaGWhat about alt-sysrq-k?08:12
DanaGIt's more powerful than ctrl-alt-backspace.08:12
AssidDanaG: point is.. im not supposed to do anything.. i click logout..it should logout08:13
Amaranthor alt-sysrq-r, vt switch, and killall Xorg08:13
Assidi shouldnt have to touch the keyboard at all08:13
DanaGSometimes I try to resume from RAM and get a hang where even my toggle-wireless hotkey won't work.08:13
DanaGIs that a BIOS bug?08:13
Assidlet me try sleep meanwhile08:13
Assidhold up08:13
AmaranthDanaG: Nope, just means it died somewhere in the kernel before it even got back to bringing userspace up08:13
DanaGThe hotkey is BIOS-handled on my PC, though.08:14
DanaGI can toggle it when in GRUB.08:14
Amaranthnot if your CPU is locked08:14
Amaranthyou can toggle caps lock in grub too, can't when you get a kernel panic08:14
Assidyep sleep somewhat works08:15
Assidi pressed the power 2 times to finally get it up08:15
Amaranthsleep starting working perfectly for me in hardy thanks to 2.6.2408:15
Amaranthin gutsy i had to add a kernel option to make it report the OS as !Linux so I wouldn't hit the linux-specific code in my computer's acpi implementation08:16
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
Amaranthand it would still fail to resume about 10% of the time08:16
Assidso whats the difference between sleep eats very less power08:16
Assidanyone know how much less?08:16
Amaranthenough to stay suspending for a month or so on a full battery, iirc08:16
Amaranthwell, obviously depending on how well we managed to make your system sleep and how big your battery is08:16
Assidsweet.. i should start suspending when i go to bed then08:17
Amaranthoh, you're running a desktop?08:17
Amaranthi'm surprised it worked then, suspend in general on desktops tends to suck08:17
Amaranthin windows too, because no one cares about it08:18
AmaranthI guess they started caring08:18
Assidworked fine here.. except i had to press the power button a few times to get it to power up08:18
Assidokay what about my X not killing itself08:18
Amaranthdriver bug08:18
Amaranthno fix possible08:18
Amaranthhttp://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2008/Fri/mel8-139.ogg <--Suspend to Disk: Why does it hurt so?08:19
mshooshtar1Hmm, here's one, Firefox3 and java plugins, it's prompting for a plugin even though the  plugin is installed.08:19
Amaranththat's a talk by the only guy i know of who really cares about suspend issues on linux08:20
Assidi need more bandwith08:20
Amaranthjava applets? i don't even think i have that plugin installed08:20
Assidmshooshtar1: you using sun-java6 ?08:21
mshooshtar1I get the prompt to install the plugin, the plugin finder service  starts up then I pick the plugins08:21
Amaranthhaven't had a reason to since i stopped using IBM's java-based dumb client emulator for some mainframe i can't remember the name of08:21
mshooshtar1I've installed the java 5 plugin08:21
Assiduse icedtea instead08:21
Assidblackhawk !?08:21
mshooshtar1let me try that one.08:21
AssidAmaranth: no audio on that link08:21
mshooshtar1I've tried 5, 6 so far08:22
capiiraalpha 5 is still not out right ?08:22
AmaranthAssid: works fine here, get a better player :)08:22
Amaranthcapiira: Every time someone asks the release is delayed 1 hour :)08:22
Assidtotem :(08:22
* Amaranth goes to the store to get a soda08:22
AmaranthAssid: That's what I'm using, works just fine08:22
AssidAmaranth: same issue yday.. now my flash audio wont work08:22
Wander_wAmaranth: So when is it coming out? :P08:23
Assidyeah audio is messed up08:23
AmaranthAssid: It's just theora/vorbis in an ogg container, this is stuff totem supports in the default install08:23
AmaranthAssid: ah you have pulseaudio running but don't have gstreamer set to use it08:23
Amaranthso it tries alsa, fails, and you get no sound08:23
Assidumm.. ok?!08:23
Assidso apt-get install gstreamer ?08:23
Amaranthno, run gstreamer-properties08:24
mshooshtar1so installing icedtea java 7 and the plugin, let's see what happens.08:24
Amaranthset the audio sink to pulseaudio08:24
* Amaranth goes to the store to get a soda08:24
Assiderr nothing happens08:25
mshooshtar1Yay, Java installed :)08:26
Assidpulseaudio .. my device goes unsupported08:26
Assidmshooshtar1: icedtea?08:26
mshooshtar1Is that going to be turned on as the default java for install?08:26
AssidAmaranth: noppe.. doesnt work08:27
Assidgreat i have no audio08:28
DanaGIs Pulseaudio daemon even running?08:29
Assidi trried restarting it08:29
Assidstill didnt help08:29
DanaGhow about 'pulseaudio -v' ?08:30
DanaGOh, and make sure to do asoundconf.08:30
Assidasoundconf set-pulseaudio08:31
Assidnothing happened08:31
Assidstill no sound08:31
DanaGHmm, try aplay /usr/share/sounds/login.wav08:31
DanaGAAh, missing library!08:35
Assidloaded that08:35
DanaG!find libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so08:35
ubotuFile libasound_module_pcm_pulse.so found in libasound2-plugins08:36
Assidyeah already loaded that08:36
Assidnow i get it to run ther play command.. but nothing happens08:36
DanaGoh, installed.08:36
DanaGHmm, also open the volume control app.08:36
Assid*** PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Timeout08:37
AssidALSA snd_pcm_open error: Connection refused08:37
Assidplay ao: Could not open default device: error 508:37
Assidplay soxio: Failed writing `default':08:37
DanaGAah, server isn't running.08:37
DanaGOh, handy hint: sudo adduser yourusername pulse-rt08:37
DanaGIt'll let PulseAudio get better priority.08:37
DanaGOh, go to a console and run pulseaudio -v    if you want debug info.08:37
DanaGDo you have the module-hal instaled?08:40
DanaGI installed every single pulseaudio-related package, just to get all of it.08:41
Assiddunno let me try to install08:41
Assidcant find module-hal08:41
DanaG!info pulseaudio-module-hal08:41
ubotupulseaudio-module-hal (source: pulseaudio): HAL device detection module for PulseAudio sound server. In component main, is optional. Version 0.9.9-1ubuntu2 (hardy), package size 14 kB, installed size 100 kB08:41
Assidpulseaudio-module-hal is already the newest version.08:42
Assidyeah installed08:42
DanaGOh, don't 'sudo' pulseaudio.08:43
Assidsay what?08:43
Assidoh yeha my vlc doesnt want to startt video now.. just hangs08:44
DanaG W: main.c: This program is not intended to be run as root (unless --system is specified).08:44
Assidmy terminals are starting tocrash08:45
Assidfor some weird reason08:45
DanaGTry paplay -v /usr/share/sounds/login.wav08:46
DanaGOh, what sound card?08:47
DanaGIt looks like it may need some funky customizations.08:47
DanaGIt's not loading properly.08:47
Assidcan i go back to alsa?08:48
DanaGAnyway, I'm going to go to bed soon, but for now, perhaps the best thing to do is to UNset pulseaudoo and choose ALSA in the gnome thingy.08:48
Assidi tried rthat.. didnt help earlier08:48
DanaGasoundconf unset-pulseaudio08:48
Assidlet me reboot08:49
DanaGAnd sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/pulseaudio (so it won't try to start).08:49
Assiderr.. need to restart.. terminals are crashing here08:49
Assidok alsa work08:56
DanaGIs alsa working again?08:59
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Assiderr.. now vlc doesnt want to full screen09:01
Assidand now it works09:01
DanaGGood.  Now it's time for me to go to bed.  When c r i m s u n   is on (spacing to avoid a ping, for politeness), perhaps he (I think... though you can't always assume, and I don't remember) will be able to help/09:01
Assidfair enuff09:03
stefanvhey all, has anyone had any problems with the compose key under Hardy?09:20
AmaranthAssid: Sounds like your "mostly working" hibernate run corrupted some kernel memory09:37
AssidAmaranth: with referance to terminals crashing? audio going haywire?09:38
Assidbtw.. why would i want to use pulse over alsa ?09:38
Amaranthbecause you can do fun things with it09:38
Assiderr.. like ?!09:39
Amaranthlike control volume of applications separately, seemlessly transfer sound output to another machine over the network and then back again, etc09:39
Assidshould i try and jump back to pulse?09:39
Amaranthwell, it is supposed to be the default for hardy09:40
Assidokay seem to work now09:41
Assiderr the audio/video syunchronization seems off09:42
Assidtakes a while for the audio stream to hit back09:43
Amaranthyep, vlc sucks09:43
Assidbtw in gstreamer-properties.. i chose  pulseaudio but the device dropdown shows unsupported09:43
Assidgreat now i got an audio in a loop.. why does vlc end up with this issue?09:45
Amaranthvlc's pulse support sucks09:46
Amaranthjust make it use alsa09:46
Amaranththen it'll go through the alsa pulse bridge thing09:46
Assidmake vlc use alsa.. or the system ?09:46
Assiderr.. gotta restart x09:47
Amaranthyou said you had it set to use pulse directly09:47
Amaranthoh actually it only has alsa09:47
Amaranthwhich is broken09:47
Assidthat was in gstreamer09:47
Amaranthvlc does goofy things09:47
Amaranthjust use totem, better anyway09:47
Assiderr.. i prefer vlc.. has better deinterlacing and aspect ratio support09:48
Assidwhjat do i do about this audio loop09:48
Amaranthrestart pulseaudio09:48
Assiddidnt help09:48
Assidterminals are crashing09:48
Amaranthyou've got big problems09:49
Assidtold you.. i can kill any box09:49
Amaranthsounds like a kernel bug or your memory is bad09:49
Assidmemory is perfect.. checked it09:49
Assidand this only happens when ia m screwring with audio09:49
Assidbrb gonna try restarting x09:49
cooldeviceshow to disable&uninstall pulseaudio? my games dont run or i have no sound after forcing it09:51
AssidAmaranth: had to restart :(09:53
Assidmoved it back to alsa till pulse audio works better with vlc09:54
Wander_wuse mplayer?10:03
Assidokay try this.. have compiz running, enable the scale plugin and bind it to a corner of the screen to show all windows (window picker).  now alt tab10:04
AssidWander_w: ?10:04
Wander_wnever mind10:04
sobersabrehi guys10:08
sobersabreI am trying to use kubuntu on amd6410:08
sobersabreand I've opened up dolphin, and tried to "add a network folder"10:09
sobersabrethen I get the error:10:09
sobersabreKDEInit could not launch '/usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach'.10:09
sobersabreI've tried to locate this file, and it's not there.10:09
sobersabrewhat package is this knetattach part of ?10:10
sobersabreI tried to apt-cache search for it, and ... no avail.10:10
sobersabreso, shall I have a bug report on missing file ?10:12
sobersabreor is it a known issue ?10:12
ubotuIf you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots10:14
void^!find /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach10:15
ubotuPackage/file /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach does not exist in hardy10:16
sobersabrevoid^: :)10:16
sobersabreit must be a part of base or network.10:16
void^!file /usr/lib/kde4/bin/knetattach10:16
void^thought there was a way to search in packages..10:17
HetaUmais alpha 5 released?10:17
Wander_wnot that i know10:17
henkjanits not on the mirrors yet10:25
AmaranthThe only knetattach I have on my system is in kdebase-bin10:26
sobersabreAmaranth: do you think if I use kdebase-bin's netattach it would work ?10:39
Amaranthalmost certainly not10:39
Assidbah jabbers messing my brains on this other box10:40
sobersabreAmaranth: you were right.10:50
Assidhrmm my laptops brightness is still wonky10:53
Assidgoes up and down like a yoyo10:53
cooldeviceshow to register on jabber.org? i can't find a "signup" button :/10:54
utopiajoin #n3rd.tv10:54
Assidsaywhat ?10:56
muszekcooldevices: I think you register via a jabber client10:59
muszekcooldevices: yeah, I checked in pidgin just now11:01
compwiz18_cooldevices: go the pidgin account setup screen and there should be a register option of some sort11:01
muszekcooldevices: accounts -> add/edit -> add -> choose "xmpp" -> check "create this new account on the server"11:02
cooldevicesyeah i found it thanks... kind of unnatural for me11:02
muszekI had exactly the same problem - been looking on jabber.org for a "sign up" page for couple minutes11:02
Assidkopete+compiz = evil!!11:03
Assidit crashes x11:03
muszekwhy was alpha 5 postponed?11:04
cooldevicesalmost all conference.jabber.org rooms are empty... and you cannot sort them by members count11:10
cooldevicesit take about 30 seconds to retrieve info on user11:14
muszekyou might have more luck raising these issues on jabber channels11:15
paulrhenkjan: is it available on some mirror?11:35
shirishdoes anybody how can I have a listing so it recursively goes to each folder & lists what's inside them as well.11:44
Unksils -r?11:44
shirishI tried "ll -rh" but that didn't get me anything.11:44
shirishUnksi: even that doesn't work.11:45
Unksisorry, it was big R11:45
Unksiso ls -R11:45
shirishUnksi: its ls -r  * that gives the desired output.11:46
Wander_wor find .11:49
capiiraohh still no A5 :)11:54
Wander_wno new toys to play with in the weekend :(11:57
capiirai hope they release it soon11:58
capiiramaybe in few hours or so11:58
Unksiit is released11:58
Unksiwhen it is ready11:58
capiirabut it comes through the synaptic update anyway or not ?12:03
Wander_wUnksi: Ah, the same time as DNF then?12:04
* heret1c arrives12:04
UnksiWander_w: yes ;)12:05
Wander_wI'll tell hell to expect colder temperatures soon.12:06
capiiraok I can't wait anymore i'm going to dl A4, /me is impatient :D12:08
* Unksi guesses that capiira notices that A5 is released when A4 is at 99%12:11
Unksithats what usually happens to me if i happen to choose that path :D12:12
capiirain 10 min ?12:12
Unksinice connection :)12:12
capiiraheh normal dsl12:13
capiiraanyway does ubuntu usually upgrade minor app versions like gnome 2.20.0 to 2.20.3 after release?12:22
muszekcurrently gutsy has 2.20.112:25
capiiraah ok hmmmmmm12:25
muszekpackages.ubuntu.com might be helpful12:26
capiiraoh yeah thanks12:26
capiiraactually i'm running ubuntus father :)12:26
capiiraeeek gimp rc3 on gutsy12:28
rskmark shuttleworth?12:28
ConstyXIVanyone else having trouble with WPA2 networks?12:29
heret1c'morning doc.12:45
Dr_willisMoo! :012:46
* heret1c reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/* with interest12:46
* Assid goes back to trying to get ejabberd to work12:46
heret1cassid> sirian motherships galore? 8)12:46
heret1cis there any point to having laptop-mode-tools active when running on AC?12:57
Dr_willisless heat?13:00
PiciLess power consumption?13:01
heret1ch'm. whay is most wearing for a hd, hest of frequent spinup/downs?13:01
heret1cpici> power consumption isn't an issue. :)13:02
heret1cthat is: heat or frequent...13:02
* heret1c is aghast that the kde team haven't sorted out the "newly installed programs fail to show up in K-menu" issue/bug -YET.13:05
Dr_willisheret1c,  from the forums i read.. i doubt if it matters much. :) its proberly best to reduce both.13:05
heret1camateurish, imo.13:05
PiciFile a bug13:05
Dr_willisbetter yet. submit a patch13:05
heret1cdoc> zapped my hd (apparently)13:06
reya276quick question, how can I load the CLI instead of the GUI, because my video drivers are not working so I can't login to the system13:06
Dr_willisheret1c,  ive seen hd takes years of abuse.. and seen new ones die in 3 days...  :)13:06
Dr_willisreya276,  disable th kdm/gdm service - or stop them from the console. is a fast way to get toit.13:07
heret1cdoc> oh ah. probably true.13:07
ConstyXIVanyone else having trouble with WPA2 networks?13:08
reya276ok how do I do that, because my screen is just a mess I can't see nothing13:08
reya276is there a key combination or something13:08
Dr_willisheret1c,  i had a PS blow and take out 4 hds once.. :(13:08
heret1cdoc> doesn't imply that the sw should be as nice to the hw as possible. disabling dma puts much strain on the cpu, which _certainly_ produces heat.13:09
Dr_willisalt-ctrl-f1 to get to the console13:09
Dr_willisThe whole heat/power thing is  gotten tobe the main limit these days. :)   Its amazing how much heat these pc's make13:09
Dr_willisMy feet are nice and toasty from my current pc.13:09
heret1creya> try ctrl-alt-backspace (but quit the proframs on the taskbar 1st)13:10
heret1c(ctb kills x)13:11
reya276I can't see nothing on my screen, so I can't quit anything or do anything, for some reason it did not install the correct ATI drivers for my graphics card13:11
heret1cah. so you're on another comp?13:11
heret1cctrl-alt-backspace, then.13:12
reya276I'm on my desktop and my laptop has Hardy Alpha13:12
reya276did that, the whole thing is just frozen13:12
heret1cchecksum the cd?13:12
Q-FUNKhello! I'm just curious how to get my gnome settings back for switching keymaps.  previously,I had this configured as ctrl+ctrl, but this no longer seems to work.13:14
cooldevicesQ-FUNK: its broken, just recheck settings13:14
Q-FUNKcooldevices: recheck what?13:16
Q-FUNKif you mean the control panel option, it's gone13:16
cooldeviceskeyboard layout options? "both ctrl keys together change layout" its here for me13:18
cooldevicestry clean install of alpha513:18
cooldeviceswhen its up13:19
reya276oh re-installing13:19
cooldevicesif no one will up with better idea like reconfiguring applet, or editing xorg for manual keyb switching13:20
roman_is the alpha5 released?13:21
cooldevicesactually gnome applet not the only wait to setup keyboard13:21
cooldevicesQ-FUNK: man setxkbmap13:26
heret1coh ah13:33
heret1csbdy remind me - will it be possible to upgrade to HH release 1 from the alpha/beta versions?13:36
Dr_willisYou should always be able to upgrade  that way - i think13:37
Dr_willisThats part of the apeal of the apt-get packing system :)13:37
heret1cI only have one box - the dell lappy. can't afford the sort of hurdle I just experienced.13:37
Dr_willisI dont thinki could function with just 1 pc. :)13:38
ubotuIf you installed a Alpha/Beta/RC version of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and have been keeping it up to date, then you are already running the latest version of Hardy. To make sure, type « sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade » in a console.13:38
heret1creadng lauchpad, the problem has a) addected quite a few ppl ad b) been known for quite some time.13:38
heret1caffected, even.13:39
Assida5 out?13:41
heret1cubotu> alpha513:42
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about alpha5 - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi13:42
heret1cubotu> doodlysquat13:43
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about doodlysquat - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi13:43
Pici!botabuse | heret1c13:44
ubotuheret1c: Please investigate with me only in /msg or in #ubuntu-bots (type also /msg ubotu Bot). Don't use commands in the public channels if you don't know if they really exist. Also avoid adding joke/useless factoids.13:44
* heret1c sits corrected. sort of.13:46
Assidahahaha. check this out13:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 194347 in gnome-power-manager "[Hardy a4] Default wallpaper ugly" [Undecided,New]13:48
Assidnow thats called a bug13:48
heret1cpici> slities in times of little conversation/a lullhould be a subparagraph yielding room for whmsicalities when traffic is slow, dontcha think? :)13:49
PiciWhy is that in GPM?13:49
rskBinary package hint: gnome-power-manager13:49
Piciheret1c: Not when I see it on every #ubuntu channel. Anyway, its OT.13:49
heret1cpici> ok.13:50
Assidhahaha.. anyone here using "gossip" ?13:51
Assidgo to edit > personal details .. edit the birthday section13:51
Assidand see the buttons there "gtk-cancel gtk-ok"13:51
cooldevicesAssid: rofl lmfao14:00
cooldevicesabout bug14:01
slytherinDoes anyone know how to listen to FM radio in rhythmbox?14:02
Dr_willisYou got a fm tuner card?14:02
Dr_willisor are you refering to fm internet stations?14:02
slytherinDr_willis: tuner card14:02
Dr_willisI dont recall seeing of the media players supporting those. But i havent had a FM tuner card in years. :)14:03
Dr_willis!find radio14:03
* heret1c reads https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/110636 and has a revelaton (the &%¤"# kernel %#%¤#s Æknew*.14:03
ubotuFound: gkrellm-radio, gnomeradio, gnomoradio, gradio, hamradiomenus (and 14 others)14:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 110636 in linux-source-2.6.22 "hdparm - cannot set dma on IDE hard drive that works via pata" [Medium,Incomplete]14:03
* Dr_willis considers it low.14:04
slytherinDr_willis: There is a plugin in rhythmbox. It is available by default. Only thing is that plugin doesn't have any UI. You have to manually edit rhythmdb.xml14:04
Dr_willisslytherin,  that would make it a bit harder.14:04
Dr_willisI just recall my FM tuner - dident tune in  worth a *$*@ :)14:05
heret1cdoc> tell taht to those in "3rd world" countries with old hw. :/14:05
Dr_willisheret1c,  i will.14:05
Dr_willisheret1c,  actually i find withmy old hardware its not an issue.14:05
Dr_willisnormally its the newer stuff that has the issues14:05
slytherinWith linux, old hardware is not generally an issue14:05
rskno, the kernel runs on aynthing14:06
rskbut gnome is heavy :)14:07
heret1clook up mr. thorvalds' reason to write linux in the 1st place. 286es!14:07
Dr_willisits highly likely its a kernel bug. that the ubuntu guys dont have  the manpower to work on.14:07
Dr_willisz80 rules!14:07
* Dr_willis whips out his huge SlideRule!14:08
ConstyXIVis anyone using the atheros 5007 (eee wireless) madwifi driver in hardy?14:09
slytherinDr_willis: http://blogs.gnome.org/jamesh/2007/05/04/fm-radio-in-rhythmbox/14:10
Dr_willisi aint about to dig out my 10+ yr old fm tuner card to test it. :)14:11
Wander_wheret1c: 386es, he wanted to use the new 32bit capabilities of that processor14:11
Dr_willisheh heh.14:11
heret1cwander_w> righty. think my point is made.14:12
slytherinanyway, I will install the sweet little app called gnomeradio14:12
Wander_wBut you'd have a _very_ hard time getting a recent kernel to run on a 38614:13
* heret1c observes that a modern desktop background piccy would take 50% pf available RAM14:13
Wander_w(I know, I've tried!)14:13
cooldevicesmy driver dosnt detect radio device on my tv tuner14:14
Wander_w2 MB of RAM is just a *bit* of a squeeze for linux (it worked when I removed all the filesystems and all the IDE drivers... it was a bit useless in that state though..)14:15
heret1carrrgh. the attitude displayed by developers in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/110636 is DESPICABLE. Roman-emperor-style modus operandi.14:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 110636 in linux-source-2.6.22 "hdparm - cannot set dma on IDE hard drive that works via pata" [Medium,Incomplete]14:18
ccookeheret1c: ... That's a good example of a bug with very confused *reporters*14:34
ccookeheret1c: I see one comment from a developer that was a bit short, which was apologised for and expanded later14:34
ccookethe rest of it seems to be people who don't understand the issue assuming that the bug affects them14:35
heret1cccooke> think so? are the developers helpgul in asking for info they need? do they ALL have scsi-disks (the dev.s) so the problem is irrelevant to them?!14:36
heret1c < 4MB/s transferrate is nott an assumption. (!)14:36
ccookeheret1c: the devs stated exactly why it was too late to fix in feisty, said they *wanted* to fix it in gutsy and asked for the relevant data that would *help* them fix it.14:37
ConstyXIVis there some sort of RSS feed/mailing list for alpha/beta releases?14:38
ccooke(also: it's not *EVERY* pata disk, you know. I run two machines at home that have pata disks - one a media server - and they're fine on both gutsy and feisty.14:38
heret1cccooke> I've a dell latitude D500 with a bof standard intel chipset.14:39
ccookeheret1c: After the dev request for *gutsy* data, you get people saying "here's some feisty data!" and "I'm affected to, my drive won't enable DMA <fx: includes paste of hdparm output showing that the drive is in udma2 mode>"14:39
heret1chdparm -Tt is hdparm -Tt.14:40
cooldevicesheret1c: youre talking about your issue for some days here, did you filed a bug?14:41
heret1cccooke> mind u, I "upgraded" to HH alpha 4 yaking for granted the problem would be sorted out by then. result: fried HD.14:41
heret1ccooldev> pointless.14:42
ccookeheret1c: you installed an alpha. That's an unfortunate but not surprising effect.14:42
fursundam I the only one experiencing problems with wine? it segfaults everytime I run an exe or even winecfg14:42
ccookeheret1c: more to the point... what's the output of hdparm -i /dev/sda (or whatever your drive is?)14:42
heret1cccooke> look up. hd's toast/fubar.14:43
ccookeheret1c: hdparm -Tt tells you the *speed* of reading. No matter the results, it does *NOT* tell you that you have the bug as reported.14:43
ccooke... *hardware* failure?14:43
ccookeOkay, that won't be hardy.14:43
ccookeIt's much, *much* more likely that your drive was already on the way out14:43
nonniicould someone who can log in to launchpad go and comment to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mplayer/+bug/48497 that they should not depend on both bitstream vera AND dejavu but one or the other. If you have to install dejavu, isn't it needless to install bitstream vera also?14:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 48497 in mplayer "using bitsream vera causes incorrect subtitles for many languages" [Medium,Fix released]14:44
heret1cnot so. abysmally low transfer rates are caused by disabled dmain most cases.14:44
cooldevices(07:42:07 PM) heret1c: cooldev> pointless. --- do you think what you doing now here for some days have a more point than filing a bug?14:45
ccookeheret1c: what you're saying is: "My disk was slow, so there's no *way* that the fact that it later *catastrophically failed* could be rekated"14:45
heret1ccooldev> seeing umpteen ppl have reported it and nothing have been done - why should I waste my time with filing bug reports which will be ignored? hence; pointless.14:46
heret1cbbl. out to buy new hd.14:47
ccookeheret1c: now, I wasn't actually suggesting that slow disk IO was a sign of the disk dying - even though that *IS* a common side effect. However, I've not seen a Linux kernel actually destroy a hard disk in around ten *years*.14:47
ccookeheret1c: that bug report was *not* ignored14:47
cooldevicesheret1c: bug is not closed yet, and as ccooke said it is becuase devs required data, YOU may provide this data14:47
fursundno one have the wine problem :(14:48
* ccooke posts to the bug report to help clarify things14:48
flipstarfursund: you might try an older wine version ..14:48
Wander_wfursund: use plenty of water on the winestains14:48
ccooke... Drat. work firefox. Now I'll have to remember my password :-)14:49
fursundflipstar, how would I do that?14:49
flipstarjust download it from winehq14:49
flipstarim using 0.9.5214:49
cooldevices!ot | Wander_w14:49
ubotuWander_w: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!14:49
fursundok thanks!14:50
Wander_wcooldevices: ok ok; so when is Alpha 5 coming out?14:52
Wander_wwhy not yesterday?14:52
flipstarwas delayed14:52
Wander_w(honest question, I want to know)14:53
cooldevicessome problems should be fixed to make it nice alpha 5!14:53
flipstar"we anticipate that the Alpha 5 release will be delayed until Friday, February14:54
flipstar22 to allow time for the ISO images to be tested appropriately."14:54
ccookequick check: I'm currently absolutely certain that the DMA bug heret1c is complaining of cannot be fixed for Gutsy - the information is too late.14:54
Wander_wwhere do the devs hang out then?14:54
ccookeAnyone want to correct me on that?14:54
fursundthanks flipstar it is working now15:11
fursundstrangely it is working fine with the newest version from winehq15:11
ConstyXIVis WPA2 broken right now?15:26
DanaGHeh:   PackageKit allows to perform simple software management tasks over a DBus interface: refreshing the cash, updating, installing and removing software packages. This software is still in an early development stage and should be considered experimental.15:26
PiciI wish someone would update my cash.15:27
DanaGYou got what I was saying 'heh' about.15:29
paulrflipstar: where did you read that?15:31
flipstarmailing list15:32
paulrI chose 'yesterday' as a day to move from gentoo to ubuntu ;p15:33
paulrdoh :)15:33
paulrwhen using the installer for a new server install, is it possible to choose packages at install time? (or just the overall 'tasks' then tweak later)15:35
* heret1c reads backlog15:42
paulrmm, if alpha5 were to get released today, what time would it normally hit mirrors? ;p15:48
heret1ccooldev> I'll provide the data if u pay for rmf-reading the hd.15:48
=== hit is now known as h1t
flipstarpaulr: torrent is probably faster for the first time15:49
paulrI downloaded server cd of alpha 4 yesterday, having found it error'd during install and need to install again, i'm thinking about whether to just use the desktop cd ;p15:51
paulrfeels kinda harsh on mirrors to download 2 cd's then download an upgrade in the space of 4 hours ;p15:51
h3sp4wn_They should provide xdelta's perhaps someone does16:02
Assidyou guys using emerald bychance?16:02
h3sp4wn_I am not using anything other than cli atm - wondering if there is a sane method for using firefox 32 bit with ubuntu64 yet16:03
emetI'm worried about Firefox16:03
h3sp4wn_Why ?16:03
emetit looks like it will release an RC, Mid-March, does that mean the Firefox coming with Hardy will be an RC?16:04
h3sp4wn_Dunno they will be 300MB+ of updates within a month anyway16:04
h3sp4wn_(Or ideally they will extend the release to June)16:04
emetjust for firefox? :o16:05
h3sp4wn_Dunno they did with dapper16:05
* hydrogen has yet to understand the firefox hype16:05
emetyes that's because multiple systems in dapper weren't ready yet16:05
emetdapper was a huge update16:05
emetimo much bigger then hardy will be16:05
h3sp4wn_No but quality control is important16:05
h3sp4wn_(If an LTS wants to be on the same level as RHEL or Solaris)16:06
emetwell they could release a 8.04 with firefox RC and an 8.04.1 with firefox final or something16:06
ffmany idea how I can check for incompatability with graphics cards? I cannot find the testing release notes...16:06
h3sp4wn_What is wrong with actually having a working release16:06
emetI don't think it's right to delay a release over one application16:07
h3sp4wn_I think 8 months is a more sane time limit for a higher quality release16:07
Assidhrmm thinking if i should start using emarald again16:07
emetOOo 2.4 might be ready by then too16:08
h3sp4wn_But the latest and greatest of everything is not necessarily a road to stability16:08
emetimo releasing hardy with firefox 2 would be pretty lame16:09
h3sp4wn_It wouldn't bother me really - I use firefox but I think konqueror 4 is about the best16:10
emetI would rather they bundle Firefox 3 RC1 if they had to16:10
h3sp4wn_just don't like the messing with 2 releases - dunno why kde4 can not just conflict with kde316:10
emetactually gutsy bundled The GIMP 2.4 RC16:10
emetand some update actually changed it to The GIMP 2.4 proper16:10
emetafter release16:10
h3sp4wn_And what if that changed some interfaces16:11
emetan RC shouldn't do that16:11
h3sp4wn_That is exactly the stuff people shouldn't do with a stable release16:11
emetRC is near-final release16:11
h3sp4wn_Theoretically - should be manually updated without changing the version number16:11
h3sp4wn_and checking no interfaces change16:11
Mark_MillimanSo what's the story with Alpha 5?16:14
emetsuppose to come out today16:15
h3sp4wn_RHEL might not be as pleasant to use but the fact they still support RHEL3 (and fix stuff that is broken properly) is why people use it16:15
emetdo they really? I thought they dropped support for RHEL316:15
ffmAre there any testing release notes yet?16:15
ffmemet: thank you.16:17
emetthe big feature this alpha is the windows installer16:17
mrcheeksHello guys, I have a terrible issue with hardy I guess :p, I am unable to login. I think it's a bash issue16:17
mrcheeksAfter a sudo apt-get upgrade I started experiencing that error16:18
h3sp4wn_emet: 7 years per release (and it was released in 2003 so that is until 2010)16:18
reya276emet: windows installer?16:18
emetreya276, yeah did you ever try to put in an ubuntu disc on a windows machine?16:19
emetreya276, now when you do it pops up a windows installer that lets you install ubuntu from within windows16:20
paulrbtw, is LTSP install broken in alpha 4?16:20
h3sp4wn_So more importantly does the new unreal tournament game still have a Linux installer in the box ?16:20
mrcheeksAnyone experiencing the same issue I have? I can't log in from a terminal or gdm16:21
reya276ooh, that does not sound good, but I hope they get that to work well, I would never try it though, Why use windows if you are using Ubuntu16:21
mikedep333h3sp4wn_: no, I think they still haven't released it yet16:22
mikedep333or of they did, it's a separate download16:23
ignushi, can anyone here tell me how to upgrade kubuntu to 8.04 alpha?16:23
h3sp4wn_mikedep333: Thats annoying - I bought all those games because they supported Linux properly16:23
mikedep333ignus: I think it is update-manager -d in regular ubuntu16:23
mikedep333maybe you can install the package update-manager or whatever16:24
mikedep333even though it is GTK16:24
heret1cignus> from?16:24
ignusmikedep333: doesnt seem to work the same in kubuntu16:24
ignusheret1c: kubuntu 7.1016:24
mikedep333isn't there the dist-upgrade command or something?16:24
mikedep333h3sp4wn_: yeah, I know16:24
ignusi think so16:24
ignusdonno what it is16:24
h3sp4wn_I would use aptitude16:24
ignusdo you know what the command is?16:25
h3sp4wn_change sources.list first16:25
ignusjust switch the word in all the lines?16:25
h3sp4wn_install aptitude from hardy16:25
h3sp4wn_ignus: yep16:25
mikedep333ignus: just making sure, but you know it is not a good idea to use hardy alpha as your primary OS, right?16:26
h3sp4wn_aptitude update && aptitude install aptitude && aptitude full-upgrade16:26
ignusis there a way to do that with sed? :P16:26
h3sp4wn_ignus: man sed (I have given you most of it)16:26
ignusmikedep333: tihs is just a test box :)16:26
leon_peggis hardy going to have apt-torrent ?16:26
mikedep333ok, good :)16:26
mikedep333leon_pegg: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=apt-torrent&searchon=names&suite=hardy&section=all16:27
mikedep333doesn't look like it16:28
leon_peggthanks mike16:28
h3sp4wn_ignus: sudo perl -pi.bak -e 's/gutsy/hardy/i' /etc/apt/sources.list16:28
Assiderr.. whats this guy running on the right side ?http://gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/73210-2.jpg16:28
h3sp4wn_(I don't ever use sed)16:28
ignusthat you all for your help!16:29
ignuskubuntu 8.04 still uses kde3 as its default yeah?16:30
h3sp4wn_Yep you can have kde4 though16:30
h3sp4wn_But it doesn't seem quite right yet for me yet16:30
cooldevicesthere is 2 kubuntu versions16:31
leon_peggjust noticed it does have debtorrent tho16:31
ignus250 megs to d/l!!!16:31
h3sp4wn_cooldevices: There has been that hackery before at one point16:31
cooldeviceshttp://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ here you can see kubuntu and kubuntu-kde416:33
h3sp4wn_Interesting - I wonder if its less messed up if I use the kde4 cd16:34
leon_peggh3sp no kde4 cd is just as bad16:36
mikedep333h3sp4wn_: yeah, KDE4 on gutsy is horrendous16:36
mikedep333whether you use the CD or the PPA repo16:36
h3sp4wn_Is there a distro with a reasonably decent kde4 then16:37
h3sp4wn_suse ? fedora ?16:37
mikedep333I doubt there is16:38
cooldevicesits not distro problem lol16:38
hydrogensuse puts a lot of energy into it and theirs works fairly nicely16:38
h3sp4wn_Its pretty nice on my sparc16:38
hydrogenbut you have to use suse...16:38
h3sp4wn_(With solaris express)16:38
hydrogenit's working fine for me here16:38
h3sp4wn_and a boatload of patches -  but there is no kde 3 to get in the way16:38
hydrogenbut fine for me involves the random crash :)16:38
cooldevicesi tried opensuse 11 a2 installer, it segfaults on start :/16:39
cooldevices(09:38:53 PM) hydrogen: but fine for me involves the random crash :) - LOL16:40
mikedep333it makes windows users feel at home16:40
h3sp4wn_Can I have a 32 bit firefox yet with ubunty 6416:40
h3sp4wn_from the repos and no messing around16:41
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
cooldevicesh3sp4wn_: tutorials look like hackage involved16:48
ffmwill ubuntu hardy be kept in sync with the trunk FF builds?16:48
ffmuntil release?16:48
cooldevicesit have now 3.0b3, and on fedora i seen 3.0b4pre week ago, does it answer your question?16:49
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
LaneyErm, is anyone else having a problem with firefox having huge icons and text? http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/firefox-huge.png17:12
manchickenIs wine known to be crashing under Hardy?17:13
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
flipstarmanchicken: yep i heard so17:17
flipstarmanchicken: you could try to download an newer/older version of wine from wineh17:17
Kunihas anyone here tried the "install in windows" option?17:20
Fritzelhas a package for wine 0.9.56 been released at this point in time?17:24
FritzelI'd check myself but I'm in windows at the moment17:24
Kunifritzel: not that I know of, but I'm not exactly an expert, so...17:27
Fritzelfair enough17:28
KuniI did check proposed and backports, too, nothing there17:28
manchickenKuni: What now?  Install in Windows?  I don't have Windows...17:29
Fritzelalright thank you, it's been released on wine's site I'm tempted to compile it but I don't know how that affects package management, as once it's released for ubuntu I would much prefer to work with the package17:30
KuniApparently the alpha 5 disc can install and in windows using wubi17:30
Kuni*and run in17:30
Kuniunfortunately the link to the iso is dead17:30
Fritzel4 was released?17:30
Kunitoday, supposedly17:31
Fritzel-nod- I'd be really curious how well that is handled as well17:31
KuniI was hoping to try it, but like I said, isos are either not up or not visible.17:31
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Kunialso, does anyone know if the awn-core-applets are going to make it into the repos? I know awn itself has.17:32
rocketsis alpha 5 actually coming today?17:35
=== mphill_ is now known as mphill
Kuniwell, the page is up, and it was supposed to come yesterday.17:35
Kuniso far I haven't gotten any dramatic updates through update manager, though I don't know if that would be normal or if they come gradually (I'm on Alpha 4)?17:36
mphillwell the did do the feature freeze so i think packages come in slower now17:36
rocketswhat page is up?17:37
Kunirockets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha517:37
rocketsKuni, ok, usually they update the HardyReleaseSchedule page with a link17:38
rocketsbut they didn't.17:38
rocketsKuni, the download links go nowhere.17:39
rocketsguess ill have to wait.17:39
Kuniyeah, I know, sucks doesn't it?17:39
Kunirockets, they do have the link on the main hardy page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/17:39
rocketsKuni, the download links go nowhere.17:40
Kunithe directory isn't even there yet.17:40
rocketswait, theyre not actually going to leave firefox 3 beta 3 as the default browser are they?17:41
rocketstell me thats just for alpha 517:41
wastreli need to update my hardy17:41
rocketsbecause its not like they havent done similar things in the past, e.g using gaim betas as the final version, or gimp release candidates as the final version for a release17:41
Kunirockets: I hope so, I'm loving beta 317:41
rocketsKuni, i love it too. but it breaks some things17:41
wastrelbeta 3 is iffy17:41
rocketsfirefox 3 is fantastic but its not ready yet17:41
wastrelalso, the history search is breaky17:42
Kunigood point17:42
rocketse.g. my google reader broke randomly the other day17:42
Kuniwell, I'm sure they'll decide by release candidate whether to include it or not.17:42
rocketsalso, in gmail, the contacts interface on the left side of the inbox looks funky17:42
Kunipersonally, I hope firefox is ready by then.17:42
rocketsKuni, yeah17:42
rocketsalso windows live mail doesnt work in firefox beta 3, only the old interface works17:42
rocketswindows live mail = new hotmail17:43
Kunims exchange works fine17:43
rocketswho said anything about exchange17:43
rocketswindows live mail is microsofts web-based mail17:43
Kunilol my school uses it.17:43
Kuniso is exchange17:43
rocketsno it isnt . . .17:43
h3sp4wn_exchange is pretty good if you use outlook17:43
rocketsexchange is their mail server which happens to have a web interface17:43
rocketsim talking about web-based mail ANYBODY can use17:44
rocketslike gmail or yahoo17:44
h3sp4wn_(for booking rooms and stuff like that)17:44
rocketsh3sp4wn_, exchange has great functionality, but poor reliability17:44
h3sp4wn_and seeing other peoples schedules17:44
Kuniyeah, my school does a poor job naming things17:44
KuniI meant the outlook web access light client.17:44
rocketsKuni, i actually like the "heavy" client much better17:44
rocketsthe outlook light client looks like its from 199517:45
h3sp4wn_rockets: If its managed properly it can be reliable dunno what that entails though never worked in that area17:45
Kuniwell, the heavy client didn't work in firefox 2 (unless with tweaking)17:45
rocketsh3sp4wn_, i have. and yes, if its managed properly, do you know HOW MUCH WORK that is?17:45
wastrelwe need shared calendaring at my job17:46
rocketshardy alpha 5 comes with transmission17:46
h3sp4wn_rockets: I can guess probably less than me managing smtp and e-mail for a few million users17:46
rocketsi wish it came with deluge, but i guess transmission is better for regular people17:46
wastrelno decent solution for oss.17:46
Kunirockets: it's a far sight better than the gnome bittorrent client in gutsy.17:46
rocketsKuni, yeah, well it allows multiple downloads. but i like deluge a lot more.17:46
Kunirockets: so sudo apt-get install deluge17:47
rocketsbut ill agree that transmission is better for non-geeks then deluge is17:47
Kunivery true.17:47
rocketsKuni, i download it from their site actually :-P17:47
rocketsthey provide updated ubuntu packages17:47
Kuniwell, either way then17:47
rocketshonestly the one thing i cant wait to test17:48
rocketsis b4317:48
h3sp4wn_Don't hold your breath17:48
rocketsi have a broadcom wifi card, and ive used both ndiswrapper and bcm43xx17:48
rocketsand both are total shit for broadcom17:48
KuniI was happy to see the inclusion of transmission, since if you -want- to get technical with it, you can, but on the surface it's nice and simple for those who don't understand the torrent system.17:48
rocketsKuni, as I said I agree that transmission is the best choice, considering ubuntu's goal17:49
h3sp4wn_What is wrong with azureus17:49
Kunirockets: I know, I'm not trying to disagree with you.17:49
rocketsi just like deluge because its µTorrent-like17:49
rocketsh3sp4wn_, its a peice of shit thats what.17:49
h3sp4wn_(I know it hammers system resources)17:49
jussi01!ohmy | rockets17:49
uboturockets: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.17:49
h3sp4wn_But it just works17:49
Kunih3sp4wn_: don't get me started. it's a memory hog, it's slow17:49
rocketsh3sp4wn_, so does deluge. and it doesnt hammer system resources17:49
rocketsso does transmission, and it doesnt hammer system resources17:50
Kuniso does transmission, ktorrent, deluge...but none of those are java-based and heavy.17:50
h3sp4wn_even with dht and all that jazz I don't use torrents ever really17:50
h3sp4wn_or very rarely and when I do I just use my etch xen vps17:50
mphillis java working in hardy yet?17:50
rocketsh3sp4wn_, well sir, obviously you are not a pirate :-P17:50
Kunih3sp4wn_: I will admit, the new azureus has a very nice looking interface. ;)17:50
Kunih3sp4wn_: I used it for quite a while on windows, until I discovered uTorrent.17:51
rocketsKuni, h3sp4wn_ i did too. azureus actually was the most popular client for a long time17:51
mhollisjrwhat's the name of the automatic package updater?17:51
rocketsmhollisjr, zomgnewpackages!17:51
rocketsmhollisjr, update-manager17:52
Kunimhollisjr: update-manager ?17:52
mhollisjrnevermind it kicked in on it's own17:52
rocketsmhollisjr, you can aalways go to system -> i forget -> updates17:52
rocketsor update manager17:52
rocketsyou guys know the bit-torrent protocol is being closed17:53
Kunisystem > administration > update manager17:53
mhollisjrhow do you close a protocol? >< expecially one like bit torrent17:53
rocketstheyre going to start selling licenses to work with the new protocol17:53
rocketsmhollisjr, updates to it will not be made public17:53
Kuniwhen? cause I know tpb is working on a new protocol, which would be backward compatible17:53
rocketsthe original protocol, yeah thats open17:53
rocketsKuni, i heard that too17:53
h3sp4wn_It doesn't matter though - Think of what napster once was and what it is now17:53
rocketsnow napster is a music-buying service17:54
rocketsi dont get your point17:54
mhollisjryou can't kill p2p17:54
mhollisjronce it's there, its there17:54
Kunih3sp4wn_: difference is that torrenting isn't centralized. You can't just shut it down like napster.17:54
rocketsoh no no17:54
rocketsi wasnt saying i thought it was going to stop torrenting17:54
rocketsi just think its lame that they wont openly release the new features of the protocol17:54
rocketsif you ask me17:55
rocketsthe torrent protocol is pretty damn good already17:55
Kuniwell, the company BitTorrent has been so crappy over the past several years that I don't really care.17:55
h3sp4wn_rockets: It doesn't matter what it is now (thats the only point)17:55
rocketseven if the torrent protocol was never updated again, i think itd work pretty damn well17:55
rocketsuntil we all switch over to ipv617:55
h3sp4wn_No one will care about the new features etc17:55
h3sp4wn_Do you think that will ever happen ? I used ipv6 for a while in 200117:56
Kunirockets: true, but it's slow, pretty insecure, and could work a lot better. That's where tpb's new ".p2p" system will come into play. :)17:56
mhollisjrhmm ok that's odd17:56
rocketsKuni, its damn fast for me17:56
rocketsh3sp4wn_, i think itll happen wwhen we actually run out of public IPs17:57
rocketswe wont have a choice17:57
mhollisjrfusion-icon crashes X, so does compiz, worked yesterday though17:57
h3sp4wn_rockets: There could be an alternative that hasn't been considered yet - I like ipv6 I don't think alot of people do though17:57
dholbachMOTU Q&A Session in #ubuntu-classroom in a bit17:58
h3sp4wn_The mobile ipv6 is particularly interesting17:58
rocketsh3sp4wn_, i hate the way the IP addresses are super complex17:58
Kunirockets: well, if I'm getting my files from a good tracker or a really well-seeded torrent it's fast. Heck, I was averaging 24 megabits per second on a torrent last night (from supertorrents.org). But on less known or less seeded trackers and torrents, it can really be slow.17:58
mhollisjrMOTU? sorry I'm not familiar with that one17:58
rocketsmhollisjr, MASTERS OF THE MO-FING UNIVERSE17:58
rocketsand im not joking17:58
mhollisjrahh ><17:58
rocketsthats what it means.17:58
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
Kuniand I'm not even joking about that 24 megabits thing. My schools internet is friggin amazing.18:01
rocketsKuni, i was at a client the other day who had OOL-Boost18:02
rockets50 megabits down18:02
mhollisjr0.9.56 wine is published for gutsy, how compatible would that be with hardy?18:02
rocketsmhollisjr, it never hurts to try something. oh wait . . .18:03
mhollisjrwell that's why I asked ^^18:03
Kunirockets: nice. my school's got a 10 gigabit down speed overall, actually, but since there're so many people on the network, we rarely clock over 25 mbps down18:04
ffmKuni: I get 15mbits down at my residential.18:04
Kuniffm: niiiiiiice18:04
rocketsKuni, damn you and your OC- connection18:04
rocketsffm, 50 megabits is on a residential cable modem actually, they just happend to use it for their business18:05
Kuniffm: at home I'm lucky to get 768kbps down.18:05
ffmKuni: FIOS.18:05
rocketsKuni, do you live in australia?18:05
ffmrockets: omg.18:05
Kunirockets: nope. USA18:05
rocketsffm, optimum online boost man. its crazy18:05
rocketsKuni, where? rural area?18:05
ffmrockets: cable is a cabal in the USA.18:05
Kunimy home is actually in a mid-sized city (Grand Rapids, MI), but we've got 1 megabit dsl18:06
rocketsKuni, oh. so upgrade your dsl!18:06
Kunirockets: $$$18:07
rockets$$$ . . .18:07
rocketsverizon dsl is $30/m for 3 megabits18:07
rocketsi have that at home and im plenty happy with it18:07
Kuniyeah, the one we have is like $12/m for the first three months and then like $20/m after that18:08
KuniWe used to use cable, which I loved.18:08
rocketsKuni, so . . .18:08
Kunirockets: cable was like $40/m18:09
Kunimy family's living off of pastor-married-to-preschool-director wages. Not exactly a lot.18:10
rocketsKuni, heh18:11
rocketscant you just take advantage of your church?18:11
* ffm is eyeing the 25up/down plan of verizon, just 65USD/month.18:11
rocketsffm, I wish. there's no fios in NYC yet, except for staten island18:12
Kunirockets: "The Lord declares that your pastor needs better internet speed!" doesn't usually go over very well.18:12
rocketsKuni, who said anything about doing it honestly18:13
Kunithat's how we roll, or at least try to.18:13
KuniNow televangelism, THAT's where the money's at.18:14
rocketsdo you feel sad?18:14
rocketsdo you feel lonely?18:14
Kuni"The Lord will heal your pain...as soon as that check clears!"18:14
rocketsdo you feel compelled to get up off that couch, GO TO THE PHONE and send me ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS?18:14
ethana2Dude, just give your money to somebody else then ;)  Like organizations that help poor people and jazz18:15
ethana2It's not like Microsoft or the IRS18:16
Kuniethana2: I don't give money to televangelists. I do give money to my church, not only because it helps pay the salary of those who dedicate their lives to it, but also pays for our alms for the poor fund and things like that.18:16
rocketsdont get me started on church.18:16
Kuniok, I won't18:16
rockets"Dedicate their lives to it" HAH18:16
rocketsand thats all im saying.18:16
ethana2new ati drivers18:17
Kunirockets: in every field there is hypocrasy. My dad certainly isn't a hypocrit, that's all I'm saying.18:17
ethana2that is true..18:17
rocketsKuni, I don't want to get into this with you18:17
* ethana2 checks Screens and Graphics18:17
Kunilol, good.18:17
rocketscheck this out18:18
rocketsits a hurricaine18:18
rocketsviewed from space18:18
ffmethana2: does it work yet?18:18
ethana2but from now until release18:18
ethana2things will be unbreaking left and right18:19
Kuniethana2: I noticed that earlier today. I was like, "I have an nVidia card. Why am I downloading these drivers?"18:19
ethana2also, art should start coming in18:19
ethana2oh, lol18:19
paulrwhy do I think that you aren't supposed to use ext3 for /boot?18:19
ethana2you could use FAT16 for /boot, couldn't you?18:19
Kuniethana2: about unbreaking, I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but before updating alpha 4, the startup sound kept playing at random times. It was really funny.18:20
paulryou could probably use anything :)18:20
ethana2that does sound funny18:20
paulri'm just thinking there was a logical reason to avoid ext3 and use ext2 for /boot , and if my memory is right, I can't remember why ;P18:20
ethana2ohhhh..  interesting18:20
ethana2i don't encrypt.. so i just have a /18:21
Kunipaulr: I can't see why. ext3 is just ext2 + journaling...18:21
ethana2..and swap, but i never use it18:21
paulrI think the point *might* have been either a) stability or b) speed - i.e. ext2+journal might take 2ms longer to read then ext2 or something ;/18:23
Kunilol probably18:23
ethana2that is possible18:23
paulrbit like setting is it.. noatime?18:24
ethana2plus that's just not an FS you need journaling with, right?18:24
paulrhmm, so server install you can set flags on filesystems for quota's etc, dekstop install you can't? :)18:24
KuniI figured they would implement that in both18:25
KuniThat's how the NT series does it, and I always thought they actually did that really well.18:25
ethana2ok, 918:26
paulrNT series?18:26
* ethana2 adds that to the list of things microsoft did right18:26
KuniWindows NT series, i.e. NT 3.5, 4, Win2k, XP, Server 2k3, and Vista18:26
paulryou can set quotas etc on both server + desktop18:27
ethana2can you set quotas on viruses?18:27
KuniDunno about the "home" versions18:27
paulrahh, think I misread what you meant first time18:27
paulr250M boot, 19GB / and 700mb swap should do18:28
Kuniethana2: sometimes, but that's only if they follow the "virus" group policy. Microsoft just doesn't seem to understand why they don't... ;)18:28
paulr750MB should be enough swap for a box with 512MB ram?18:28
ethana2i never use anywhere near that much18:28
paulrthis is a how to move from gentoo to ubuntu : Ans: try an alpha ;p18:29
KuniI'd assume so, paulr.18:29
ethana2'course, i have 768MB of RAM..18:29
flipstarpaulr: debends on what you do..might not enough..18:29
KuniI've got 2gigs, so I don't even bother with swap.18:29
ethana2i don't know, i always just throw 2 GB at it18:29
ethana2but hibernate?18:29
paulrflipstar: probably just type gcc lots :p18:29
flipstarkay then its enough ;)18:30
Kuniethana2: meh. I don't bother. I'm so used to windows that the boot speeds of ubuntu seem like it's coming out of hibernate anyway.18:30
paulrreason for moving from gentoo: postgres 8.3 isn't in there main tree yet18:30
ubotuThe packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories18:31
ffmWhenever I start compiz, my entire background (everything under the mouse layer) is gon.18:31
flipstarffm: --> #compiz-fusion18:32
ffmflipstar: this has to do with my graphics driver.18:33
ffmflipstar: and this is the hardy package.18:33
ethana2WINE is now at 0.9.5618:35
ethana244 releases yet18:35
ethana2they can only drag this out for almost two years now before they hit 1.0.. should be enough time, right?  ^_^18:36
ethana2i'm going to see if the latest ubuntu dell is available in the US yet..18:37
void^why not have 0.9.100, 0.9.101,..? ;)18:38
Kunivoid^: cause then they would've had to have 0.9.056 and such18:38
ethana2goodness gracious, don't give them ideas like that18:39
Kunibut what they can do is
void^they don't have 2.6.09 with kernels18:39
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
reya276ok re-installed Hardy again, can anyone walk tell me how I can make my resolution bigger than 800x600 as I don't have any other choices in the screen resolution app18:40
Kunisystem > administration > screens and graphics18:41
=== afflux_ is now known as afflux
Kuniyou have the drivers for your card installed, right?18:41
ethana2Kuni, did you just point someone to Screens and Graphics on Hardy?18:42
ethana2I think you did.18:42
ethana2What am I missing?18:43
Kuniethana2: what?18:43
Kuniit's there...18:43
paulrhmm, mountpoint dropdown list is empty ;/18:43
paulr(only when creating a new partition)18:44
Kuniit's also screwy.18:44
ethana2many things are..  but we are on the road to rock solid stability18:44
ethana2which will be very nice18:45
Kuniso what's -wrong- with screens and graphics?18:45
Kunior do we not know18:45
paulrmm / needs to be at least 19GB?18:45
Kunipaulr: what? I certainly hope not. I've got hardy running on a 5gb partition.18:45
ethana2well kuni18:46
ethana2wait, you mean cause, not symptoms?18:46
ethana2it displays nothing when run from gnome18:46
paulr"Some of the partition you created are too small. Please make the following partitions at least this large ( in bytes): / 192861132818:46
* paulr hits continue and18:46
nemopaulr: are you resizing an XP partition?18:46
nemoor Vista18:46
paulrno, creating a new partiion on a 20gb hdd18:47
Kunipaulr: weird. it works fine for me.18:47
nemowell. that's odd18:47
paulrtbh, i've been fiddling so probably confused it18:47
nemowell. I suppose ubuntu has gotten larger18:47
nemo1.8GiB isn't that small anymore18:47
nemoperhaps you should be using xubuntu18:48
paulrnot 1.818:48
nemothat's 1.8GiB18:48
martallifluxbuntu is better for a small distro18:48
paulri've confused it :)18:48
Kuninemo is right!18:48
nemopaulr: I think you confused yourself :-p18:48
paulras the same screen that says  the min partition size also said 18885MB :)18:48
* Kuni does a zoidberg impression18:49
paulrand i'm pretty sure 18,885MB is 118gb ;p18:49
nemo117? ;018:49
Kuniyeah, I was gonna say18:49
Kunilol The Master Partition.18:49
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
nemoare you sure it isn't saying the min partition size is 1885MiB ?  :)18:50
paulrand now it's failed to create an ext3 paritition time to try again :)18:50
reya276Kuni: no I do not right now it's using the Vesa driver18:50
mhollisjrI just installed compiz on kubuntu hardy, and it seems attempting to switch to compiz causes X to restart, the hardware is very capable of running compiz, how would I diagnose this? or where would I go to find out? I already have the same question asked in #compiz-fusion18:50
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
Kunireya276: oh. hm. Open a terminal and do sudo apt-get install hwinfo, then do sudo hwinfo --framebuffer18:51
flipstarmhollisjr: glx is working ?18:51
Kuniflipstar: you killed him! ;)18:51
mhollisjr-cough- apparently not >< glxinfo |grep direct = restart X18:52
flipstarthen its definitive an driver issue18:52
mhollisjrit's odd though it broke from a reboot >< best way to fix that would be probably to reinstall the driver correct?18:53
flipstaryou could at least try that18:53
mhollisjr-nod- alright brb then18:53
Kuniso do we have a #ubuntu+2 for intrepid ibex?18:55
reya276Kuni: I did that now what?18:55
Kunireya276: can you put the output from sudo hwinfo --framebuffer into the pastebin (http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/)18:56
Kunidid the driver reinstall work?18:59
paulrdoes the installer create a debug log somewhere?18:59
s0u][ighth igys19:00
mhollisjrok that works I've got my eyecandy goodness again thank you19:00
Kunimhollisjr: in kubuntu, how does one go about making the middle mouse activate desktop cube instead of bringing up a context menu?19:00
Kuni(something I've always wondered)19:01
=== Mark_Milliman is now known as Mark_M|Away
mhollisjruh I forget it's probably in ccsm under bindings for rotate cube19:01
h3sp4wn_For small I like to just use grml running from a 1gb usb key19:01
h3sp4wn_(damn that was scrolled back to years ago)(19:01
Kunih3sp4wn_: for small I like dsl running from a 64mb usb key.19:02
flipstarwhat time is it in america right now ?19:03
Kuniflipstar: on the east coast it's 2:03PM19:03
Kunicentral it's 1:03PM, west coast is 11:03 am19:03
s0u][ightpeople where can i find the right firmware cutter for b43?19:04
flipstarhm just wondering where alpha5 remains19:04
Kuniyeah, I'm wondering, too.19:04
s0u][ightisn't it released yet?19:04
Kuniit's supposed to be, but it's not.19:05
flipstardelayed for today19:05
s0u][ighti thought it would be released yesterday19:05
flipstarit was delayed19:05
s0u][ightso i'm upgrading with a script :|19:05
flipstarduring iso testing as they said19:05
paulrext3 file system creation in partition #3 failed ;/19:06
s0u][ighthow come?19:06
s0u][ightis there an alternative for putty?19:06
flipstarpaulr: using the new live installer ?19:06
Kunipaulr: dude you are having some serious issues...19:06
reya276Kuni: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/56980/19:06
paulrin alpha 419:06
paulrdoes the installer generate a log file somewhere?19:08
s0u][ightit should i think19:08
s0u][ightdamn i got headache19:09
paulrubiquity 1.7.619:09
* h3sp4wn_ wonders why people think the splash is so important when it always seems to end in a black screen19:09
Kunik, reya276: do "sudo nano /boot/grub/menu.lst" find the line that starts # dfoptions, and at vga=0x0323 to the end of that line. ctrl+o to save. then try rebooting19:09
paulrI assume that's name/verison number of the isntaller19:09
Kunireya276: actually, before rebooting, do "sudo update-grub"19:10
flipstarh3sp4wn_: when it is working it is a great thing :)19:10
s0u][ightdamn some mirrors are quiet slow :|19:10
flipstaruse torrent :)19:10
s0u][ighttoo late :D19:11
=== Mark_M|Away is now known as Mark_Milliman
flipstarthen maybe prozilla19:11
h3sp4wn_flipstar: Dunno what you gain other than hiding some errors maybe19:11
flipstara nice startup without dealing with details ..19:12
nblracerwait is it out?19:12
s0u][ighti was discusting with my friend last time i told him that i wanted to use 2 drivers for my wireless card and he said it will make conflicts ( i mean one who works all the time and the other i can set up if i want to) is it possible?19:12
h3sp4wn_Just pretending something does not exist does not make it so19:12
reya276Kuni: rebooting19:13
Kunih3sp4wn_: then how do you explain Apple's policy of complete silence about security issues until after they go away? ;)19:14
flipstarh3sp4wn_: no but there is no reason to look at the details instead of a nice screen for an normal startup&user19:14
h3sp4wn_Kuni: I don't know anything about apple I was going to get a macbook pro at one point but after breaking an ipod in 2 days (and people I know having similar quality issues) I won't find out19:15
s0u][ightpeople i got a question19:16
* AnswerGuy looks at s0u][ight 19:16
s0u][ighti was searching for a firmware cutter and just found b43-fwcutter.deb19:16
Kunih3sp4wn_: lol. What is there to say about Apple except that they have some great products, but they're a terrible company.19:16
h3sp4wn_Kuni: But they do have ZFS and dtrace so maybe they are worth a look (and supported for most apps I use)19:16
reya276Kuni: nope that did not do anything19:17
Kunih3sp4wn_: They -did- manage to make UNIX user friendly...19:17
s0ullight_but the weird thing is it says Utility for extracting Broadcom 43xx firmware19:17
h3sp4wn_Kuni: It always was user friendly19:17
s0ullight_while it should be for the b43 driver could it be misspelled?19:18
Kunireya276: hm. I'm not very well versed on vesa, since I just use the nvidia drivers...what kind of card do you have?19:18
Kunih3sp4wn_: no, I mean basic Mac-user friendly. You know, basically a shiny, high-level toy.19:19
AnswerGuys0u][ight: I don't know for sure but I would guess that b43 and bcm43xx are different drivers for the same class of hardware (family of chipsets).  And that the firmware (downloaded into the NIC) should be independent of the driver (linked into the kernel to call on hooks in the firmware to drive the card)19:20
AnswerGuyNota bene:  This is just a guess!19:20
h3sp4wn_Afaik you can get suitable firmware from the wl.o broadcom embedded firmware19:20
mhollisjrif I compile wine myself, will that interfere with future packaging upgrades and installs for wine?19:21
reya276Kuni: I have an ATI card but I installed the Fglrx drivers and the ATI drivers but for some reason the card is not recognizing them, for some reason I think they should have kept that xorg.conf like it was before19:22
Kunihuh. sorry, I can't help you there, reya276.19:24
flipstarmhollisjr: you can set the package to hold19:24
flipstarso it wont be upgraded19:24
flipstarecho wine hold|sudo dpkg --set-selections19:25
mhollisjrflipstar:  well that's the thing when it becomes available on hardy I DO want it to upgrade19:26
flipstarthen just release it19:26
mhollisjrflipstar: my question is, will it be a problem?19:26
mhollisjrso if I have it installed from source, the package when it becomes available will upgrade properly?19:27
mhollisjrassuming default settings and locations?19:27
flipstarguess yes it will read the old config files like every app19:27
mhollisjr-nod- well I suppose worst case scenario, I back up my wine drive, and make uninstall19:28
mhollisjrthen install it19:28
h3sp4wn_Is there something inherantly broken about using usplash with 1900x120019:29
Kunih3sp4wn_: heh. Yeah, I was wondering the same thing.19:29
h3sp4wn_I am not really that bothered -once I disable it then I will keep it that way19:30
Kunih3sp4wn_: although the best option --framebuffer gives -me- for boot is either 1600x1200 or 1400x1050, neither look very good on my 1920x1200 screen.19:30
h3sp4wn_Kuni: Are you using a quadro 1600m also ?19:30
Kuninope. Go 7900GS19:31
mEck0Hi folks! I was thinking about some things in Transmission, the "new" bt-client in 8.04. I would like a feature to set directory for both Unfinished downloads and Finished Downloads. AFAIK, you can only set a single download-dir now. Another thing which would be good is to see the amount of time remaining of a download (I mean, when not in minimal mode, alt+m). Sure you can see time left if you select the download and choose Details, bu19:32
mEck0t why not see it directly.19:32
mEck0And yeah, another thing I miss it the possibility to select a download and choose delete torrent, or delete torrent+data (as in ktorrent for instance). otherwise, I think Transmission is a good lightweight bt-client19:33
AtomicSpark:D is it out yet?19:42
AtomicSparkgood it is.19:43
AtomicSparkrelease schedule page needs to be updated.19:43
h3sp4wn_Nice error message - irq 19: nobody cared19:44
AtomicSparkinteresting. you can now install ubuntu as an application inside windows. that's scary.19:45
KalpikAtomicSpark, link?19:46
Kuninews on alpha 519:46
s0u][ighthi guys19:46
Kunithey've got  a bunch of bugs apparently19:46
AtomicSparkalpha5 is out19:46
reya276yeah I said the same thing before, which I don't get, should we not try to use windows at all19:46
UnksiAtomicSpark: isnt it like an installer that can install it from windows, and then you just reboot it?19:46
KuniAtomicSpark: try downloading it, it's not yet.19:46
Unksior have i got it wrong :P19:46
KuniUnski: no, actually you can now run Ubuntu in windows using Wubi19:47
Unksioh ok19:47
leon_peggdebtorrent is included in the hardy repos this is good :D far better solution then apt-torrent19:47
Kunisee: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all19:47
Unksihmm, wonder if i should use that at my school :P19:47
Kuniunski: it's tempting, right? ;)19:48
AtomicSparkUnksi: no.19:50
UnksiKuni: sure ;)19:51
UnksiAtomicSpark: with usb stick, installed at home, of course19:51
KuniI'm definitely going to be installing in Vista, just so that no matter what OS I boot to, I will always have linux.19:52
Unksii probably couldnt do that there, as they have quite strict permissions set there; though i can run stuff from usb stick19:52
Kunioh the joys of college.19:53
AtomicSparkUnksi: are you in college or highschool?19:53
h3sp4wn_Kuni: I do always have Linux (via - http://www.slicehost.com)19:53
Kunialthough I do miss the familiarity I had with my schools system before I left.19:53
h3sp4wn_relies on nothing19:54
getooafter upgrading to hardy i got no sound .... :(19:54
Kunih3sp4wn_: $$$19:54
AtomicSparkgetoo: why did you upgrade? D:19:54
KuniI'm a college student.19:54
getooAtomicSpark: one reason .. wifi19:55
h3sp4wn_As am I (But I was a well paid sysadmin prior to that)19:55
getooanyways you think u can help me a little AtomicSpark  :P19:55
AtomicSparkKuni: ah. i discovered the wonders of a laptop. :D I use it in a lot of my classes.19:55
paulrKuni: worked it out ;p19:55
AtomicSparkgetoo: No, sorry. I haven't even gotten an alpha installed yet. Ubuntu hates being a guest on KVM.19:56
getoogot it19:56
KuniAtomicSpark: Never had a laptop in highschool. Love having it in college. It's a beast, too. 17.1-inch 1920x1200 screen.19:56
getoothanx tho19:56
Kunipaulr: what was wrong?19:56
paulrKuni: not being able to create an ext3 partition seems to be the installers way of going "your out of ram"19:56
getooi might try the forums then19:56
UnksiAtomicSpark: at jyväskylä university of applied sciences19:56
Kunipaulr: lol did you try the alternate install cd then?19:57
AtomicSparkKuni: Ah. Mine is 19" 1440x900 or whatever. I have 1920x1200 on my 24" desktop :P.19:57
paulrnah, used the server cd I burnt yesterday19:57
KuniAtomicSpark: 19" laptop? that must be huge19:58
paulr(which has actually taken me less time then trying a nice graphical installer with less options )19:58
=== marko-_-_ is now known as marko-_-
AtomicSparkKuni: maybe it's 17..19:58
* AtomicSpark mesures19:58
AtomicSparkKuni: ha, yup it's 17. :P close enough.20:01
KuniSo I wonder if we'll be seeing ANOTHER delay in the alpha20:04
Kuni(which sounds really retarded when you think about it: whiny about a two day delay on an alpha test version of an operating system due to come out in two months)20:05
AtomicSparkCOPYPASTA: For those who have set up encrypted LVM, can you set it up via a live cd in partition manager? or can you only do it when installing ubuntu? What I did for my current install is partition with live cd, installed vista, then went back to live cd and installed ubuntu. Basically I made my partitions using ubuntu but still installed vista first (this prevents a lot of things). Can I do the same thing with encrypted LVM so that the20:07
Kunimmmm copypasta. I was just getting hungry, too.20:07
flipstarthe last alpha was released late on afternoon20:07
Kuniflipstar: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all20:07
Kunithey still have  few bugs they're working on20:08
AtomicSparklols. other room turned into a vista help desk.20:13
s0u][ighthello just made my b43 driver work20:17
s0u][ightbut got an issue : can't change my interface's name20:17
s0u][ightcan someone help me20:17
Kunigah...I hate hardy's version of awn...20:18
leon_peggavant window navigator20:24
AtomicSparkwell instead of hating, you should suggest improvements!20:26
leon_peggor help with development20:26
leon_peggKuni awn should be the same on gusty as hardy if your compiling from source20:27
leon_peggKuni awn should be the same on gusty as hardy if your compiling from source20:27
Kuninope. It's in the repos for hardy, and I got it from a bzr precompiled repo for gutsy20:28
Kunibut yes, if I were compiling from source.20:28
leon_peggKuni is awn in hardy repos20:28
Kunibut no applets. :(20:29
leon_peggKuni its not hard just compile it from source20:29
Kuniyeah, that's what I'm going to try next.20:29
leon_peggI have been writing patches for alot of apps i use so that murrine rgba transparency works in them20:31
leon_peggone thing I'll be testing when I get chance is debtorrent with apt-transport-debtorrent20:33
h3sp4wn_Is the java 7 alpha usable yet for a plugin ?20:35
Unksithe plugin doesn't work here with firefox atm20:35
bertvdphi, is alpha5 is coming out tomorrow, right ?20:36
h3sp4wn_I dunno why a version using the ia32-libs of firefox cannot be provided20:36
Unksiit was going to come out yesterday.. but we hope for tomorrow20:36
bertvdpUnksi, okey thanks20:36
bertvdpnow that we've passed package freeze I hope to help a bit by doing some alpha testing20:37
nblracerany word on when hardy 5 will be finshed and released20:56
mhollisjris there a program that I can use to simulate a boot off a device?21:21
mhollisjrlike if I wanted to test booting off my USB stick without rebooting 25 times, since I probably need to make adjustments?21:21
h3sp4wn_Did you try qemu ?21:21
mhollisjrno but that's what I needed to know ^^ if it'll do that21:22
mhollisjrty ^^21:22
weedarI'm trying to set file associations in firefox-3.0 but there doesn't seem to be an option for it..Does anyone know where I set it?21:26
weedarThe "Applications"-tab in Preferences is empty and I can't seem to add any?21:27
Kuniin ccsm, close and minimize (not on unminimize) fade before they finish...21:35
Kunihad to uncheck fading windows option21:36
cyphasedare i ask.. does anyone know when alpha 5 is coming?21:43
Kunicyphase: we've been asking the same question all day.21:44
KuniDevs contend that there are still bugs21:44
=== ianc is now known as IanC
cyphasei was going to ask last night (early morning Friday), but i thought it would be out by now21:44
cyphasei see21:44
SheeEttinAnyone running Kubuntu Hardy in here?21:48
flipstareveryone i guess :)21:49
Kuniwell, maybe everyone except me. :P21:49
flipstarexcept these that are running gnome of corse21:49
wastreli have gnome21:50
SheeEttinflipstar: exactly why I asked about Kubuntu. I'm hesitant to try Hardy, because I tried KDE 4.0, and it didn't look too good...21:50
mikedep333as in it was buggy or it didn't have good features?21:51
mikedep333right now both are the case in my opinion21:51
flipstarSheeEttin: using hardy didnt mean to use kde421:51
Centaur5I'm trying to find out if it's my problem or just the driver but does anybody know if the experimental intel driver is capable of running glx?21:51
Kunino idea21:52
SheeEttinflipstar: good point.21:52
SheeEttinWhich version of X is in the Hardy repos?21:52
SheeEttinOh good.21:54
SheeEttinWell, I haven't got anything better to do, so I might as well upgrade... Gutsy is getting boring. :P21:54
ubuntuxis there an easyway to change the mount path and name of an usb connected storage device like a usbdrive?21:57
flipstaryou can change the label via e2label21:58
flipstarchange the mount path with remount ..21:59
ubuntuxk thx22:00
ubuntuxwell its still saying 400.1 gig media22:02
flipstarafter labeling with e2label ?22:03
ubuntuxsomething to do with udev ?22:03
flipstaruhm you did the right device ? e2label device [ new-label ]22:04
ubuntuxfirst checked with fdisk -l22:04
ubuntuxit is mounted in the path i want (/media/disk)22:04
ubuntuxbut nautilus still shows the 400.1gb drive thing22:05
ubuntuxinstead of disk22:05
ubuntuxor whatever i like to call it22:05
flipstar'e2label device' should show you the new label22:05
flipstarmaybe restart nautilus ? im using kde so i dont know about nautilus22:06
ubuntuxah okay, i will check that out later. thx!!22:08
ubuntuxwhat kernel will the final hardy build get?22:09
AtomicSparkprobably what it is on now.22:10
ubuntuxah ok22:11
AtomicSparkmost of the freezes have taken place. of course there is always secuirty updates to the kernal. :P22:11
ubuntuxi get kernel panics with wireless rt61pci module22:11
AtomicSparkthat would be a minor kernal version issue not major. minors get released as an update.22:11
luke1290hey hey22:11
AtomicSparkbut of course that could be a non-kernal issue. ;) i am not sure.22:12
luke1290im running Ubuntu LiveCD. But im confused, how can I install xchat and download files onto my desktop?  I didnt think it can write to the CD22:12
AtomicSpark"A kernel panic is an action taken by an operating system upon detecting an internal fatal error from which it cannot safely recover; the term is largely specific to Unix and Unix-like systems."22:12
ubuntuxwell im not the only one with kernel panics and rt61pci combo :)22:12
luke1290i installed xchat and saved files onto my Desktop as im running the LiveCD Ubuntu.  How is that possible?  Where is it saving the files as it cannot write to the CD?22:13
AtomicSparkyes but it might have nothing to do with what version the kernel is. :P22:13
luke1290flipstar, but i installed xchat and downloaded heaps of files. and I only have 1 GB ram22:13
ubuntuxwell okay, but the module is coming from that kernel though, well lets hope it will be fixed some day22:13
flipstarluke1290: you downloaded more than 1gig to your desktop ?22:14
AtomicSparkcould be a "oh shi-, this driver makes me break" kind of thing. yeah. must remember it is currently at alpha 4. people shouldn't expect it to work.22:14
luke1290flipstar, how much does Ubuntu LIVECD take?22:14
ubuntuxwell, its running pretty good here, im using it instead of gutsy now.. ofcousre i make enough backups in case of..22:14
AtomicSparki haven't tried it yet unfortunately. might have it a go when alpha 5 gets released here soon.22:15
luke1290flipstar, does the Ubuntu LIVECD store any data on my HDD?22:15
flipstarno not if you dont say so22:15
AtomicSparkubuntux: the kernal version in alpha 5 is 2.6.24-8.14 ( if you were wondering.22:19
flipstarwhy dont they say since it is that ?22:20
flipstarim confused of that is there a way to look up which kernel it really is ?22:21
AtomicSparkdonno. just telling you what it says on the alpha 5 page.22:21
AtomicSparkif you have it running you can see what version it is. let me find the command.22:21
h3sp4wn_It really isn't anything because its patched22:21
ubuntux 2.6.24-8-generic thats my kernel22:21
Unksiuname -r?22:21
flipstaryes but it is based on that22:22
h3sp4wn_other than the ubuntu name22:22
PhantomNJhello all, anyone experience webcam constantly taking pictures while upgrading to Hardy from Gutsy?22:22
AtomicSparkflipstar: uname -r or uname -a in terminal.22:22
h3sp4wn_It doesn't mean anything though22:22
flipstaryes but 2.6.24-8 is the *ubuntu name for the kernel i want to find out the real kernel name here it is
flipstarokay not kernel name but kernel base22:23
h3sp4wn_The whole thing is if somehting is patched to hell its different enough from that it shouldn't be called that22:23
ubuntuxtruecrypt 5 is pretty neat22:23
ubuntuxjust like to mention that :)22:24
ubuntuxsomeone using stuff like that?22:24
Assida5 is releaseD?22:25
=== emgent is now known as carlo__
AtomicSparki just downloaded the gusty version of transmission. checking out what it will be like in hardy. do you know if it allows encryption? i see it allows port mapping via upnp.22:25
AtomicSparkAssid: no. there were some bugs.22:25
flipstarubuntu i used truecrypt 5 once but then i changed to luks22:25
Assidhrmm k22:25
ubuntuxwhats that?22:25
=== carlo__ is now known as emgent
PhantomNJanyone have a webcam go active while upgrading to Hardy?22:26
flipstarupcoming standart for encryption on linux22:26
ubuntuxah okay22:26
AssidAtomicSpark: i thought they pushed it to today22:26
ubuntuxwhat do you encrypt with it?22:26
AssidPhantomNJ:  yeah mine works fine22:26
flipstaraes just like truecrypt22:26
flipstarbut its way faster22:26
Assidi bought one thats known to support tho22:26
PhantomNJAssid: was it taking pictures while you did the upgrade?22:26
PhantomNJI don't know if it's testing or what, but the upgrade seems to have stalled while it's snapping pics and saving them to /tmp/motion22:27
PhantomNJI'm wondering if I should disconnect it22:27
DoYouKnowno Alpha 5 available for download?22:28
AtomicSparkAssid: the page is up but the download link is missing. it also says there are bugs with current iso.22:28
AtomicSparkDoYouKnow: not yet22:28
ethana2I like that the release page notes the delay22:30
ethana2As opposed to it just sitting there while things push it back day after day22:30
flipstaryep was clear since few days already22:30
ethana2wow, came so fast.. the trick is forgetting about it instead of waiting anxiously ;)22:31
AtomicSparkanyone know what file systems lvm supports?22:31
Assidwheres the announcement?22:37
AtomicSparkwhat announcement?22:37
Assidof the delay22:38
AtomicSparkAlpha 5 (NOTE: Delayed until 22nd)22:40
AtomicSparkI'm thinking it will be delayed further. :P22:40
Assidjust a note22:40
flipstarnight is long ..22:40
Assidi think they wanna try and clear as many bugs as possible for this alpha release22:40
AtomicSparkyeah. some guy posted a link to the iso info about the bugs.22:40
flipstarthat here http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all22:41
AtomicSparkwell there you go!22:41
* Kuni is proud to be "some guy!"22:44
flipstarthat site is great! i just bookmarked it :P22:44
Kuniyeah, the dev team was gracious enough to give it to me when I bugged them about how we here in +1 had no idea what was going on with alpha 5.22:45
weltschmerzevery time my screensaver should come on, i instead get a black screen that will not "wake up", and i just see my mouse arrow and have to hit ctrl-alt-backspace and log back in.22:45
weltschmerzand if i try to open screensaver preferences it doesn't really load.  everything in the window stays grey.22:45
weltschmerzno text appears or anything.  it just seems frozen.22:46
weltschmerzthis has not happened on my home machine also on hardy22:46
Kunihaven't had that problem yet...22:46
=== Spec is now known as x-spec-t
Habbiehello; why is openssh-server not on the hardy server iso?23:06
Kunisorry Habbie, I don't have the answer23:09
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Kuniyou could try #ubuntu-devel23:09
Kunior maybe someone else here knows23:09
Habbiei'll hang around, see if an answer comes :)23:09
KuniHabbie, from what I can tell from the dev chat, it sounds like they're hoping to have that fixed in Alpha 5 when it finally comes out23:17
Habbieah, that's good to hear23:18
KuniI could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like23:18
swx_No news of heron A5?23:25
swx_Maybe its delayed till tomorrow ?23:25

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