james_wawmcclain: you mean the packaged version?00:00
james_wawmcclain: you could also try your /var/cache/apt00:00
awmcclainjames_w: i went from 1.0 to 1.200:00
james_wah, that wont work then.00:01
awmcclainjames_w: I figured out some of the problem... seems like bzr-trac balks when used with a shared repo without working trees00:01
james_wawmcclain: ah, well caught.00:02
awmcclainooh.. yesh00:05
awmcclainI'm getting bzr: ERROR: Repository KnitPackRepository('file:///shrepo/.bzr/repository/') is not compatible with repository SvnRepository('svn://localhost')00:05
awmcclainwhen i try to branch an svn directory into a shared repo with trees00:05
fullermdawmcclain: bzr-svn needs rick-root-packs format.00:06
awmcclainfullermd: Not sure I really understand. Is that an option i need to specify in bzr init-repo?00:06
fullermdOr maybe it's pack singular.  I'd have to check the help...00:07
awmcclainFor bzr-svn?00:07
awmcclainor bzr init-repo00:07
fullermdFor the init-repo00:07
awmcclainIs there a better (more native) way to convert from svn to bzr? I'm doing a one-way port00:07
fullermdThere are one or two other converters around, but I think bzr-svn is the canonical one.00:07
fullermdI think the only other way that's gotten any work lately is whatever that thing is that igc's working on, and that's probably not near as production-ready.00:08
awmcclainWon't specifying a different file format hurt performance?00:08
fullermdHurt performance relative to it not working at all?   ;)00:08
awmcclainOnce i get the repo into bzr, can i convert from rick-root-packs to knit?00:09
fullermdNo (you wouldn't want to go knit anyway; you'd want to go pack; but rich roots are a trapdoor)00:09
awmcclainIs there wiki page somewhere about all this?00:10
fullermdThere's probably something in the bzr-svn docs about it, but I've never look at 'em.00:10
awmcclainSo, bottom line is, if i'm converting a repo from svn, i'm stuck with an older file format.00:11
fullermdIt's not older.00:11
fullermdIn a sense, it's newer.00:11
awmcclainoh wait, i'm so confused.00:12
awmcclainThe state-of-the-art is using packs, right?00:13
fullermdrich-root-pack is a variant of pack-0.92 that supports rich roots (much like rich-root is a variant of knits that supports rich roots)00:13
awmcclainBut using bzr init-repo doesn't default to that? And bzr-svn is expeciting it.00:13
awmcclainrich-root-pack is a superset of pack?00:14
awmcclainIs there a performance difference?00:14
fullermdWell, I would assume there has to be one, since it does more.  But that diff is almost certainly unmeasurable.00:15
awmcclainThat's the magic word!00:15
fullermdIt may miss some optimizations that exist in the straight format; I'm not sure how much of the code is shared.00:16
fullermdBut I don't think it would be a large difference, if it's a meaningful one at all.00:16
tgunrThought I would try out bzr on macosx, on 1st attempt to use it with the whoami command I get Unable to load plugin 'qbzr'00:44
johnnyhmm..so.. do you guys talk about the bzrarchives proposal thingy here?00:45
beunotgunr, so you installed the qbzr plugin and it's failing for some reason00:46
beunoyou should remove it00:46
beunoand try again00:46
beunoVerterok, ^  :p00:47
tgunrjust delete that folder?00:47
tgunror plist or something?00:47
Verteroktgunr: the 10.4 installer?00:48
Verterokbeuno: thanks :)00:48
Verteroktgunr: I don't have 10.5, but in 10.4 it's installed inside python site-packages00:49
awmcclainIn a shared repository (with trees), is there anything different between mkdir foo; bzr add foo; bzr commit and bzr branch bar (where bar is an empty directory)?00:51
Verteroktgunr: I think it should be in: /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.5/lib/python2.5/site-packages00:51
* fullermd blinks.00:51
fullermdawmcclain: Either you're confused, or you confused me   :)00:51
awmcclainfullermd: I think both. :)00:52
awmcclainfullermd: Basically, is adding a directory using bzr the same as branching?00:52
awmcclainfullermd: I ask because I need to fiddle with my directory structure in my shared repository00:53
fullermdYou can't "add a directory" in a repository.00:54
fullermdThe concept has no meaning in bzr terms.00:54
awmcclainUsing bzr add?00:54
fullermdMaybe you're thinking svnish?00:54
awmcclainMaybe i'm garbling the advice that lifeless gave me yesterday00:54
fullermd(Or maybe you mean 'branch' when you're saying 'repository', but branch'ing inside a branch doesn't make sense either)00:54
awmcclainI creating my shared respository00:54
awmcclainWell, there is that whole "nested branch layout" under http://bazaar-vcs.org/SharedRepositoryLayouts. ;)00:55
awmcclainI want my repo to look like: repo/trunk/src  repo/bobby/featureX/src repo/sally/featureY/src00:56
awmcclain"repo" in the sense of "shared repository"00:57
awmcclainThe problem is that in my current SVN tree, I only have /src00:57
fullermdI think you're mixing too many things around...00:58
fullermdFor one thing, 'add' is a command that deals with a working tree.  A working tree is only related to a branch; it doesn't have anything to do with repositories.00:58
fullermdIt may be simpler to forget wholesale about the shared repo, at least mentally, for starters.00:59
fullermdThe existence (or non-) of the repo doesn't change anything, relative to just having standalone branches.  It just saves space/time.00:59
awmcclainI should do bzr branch svn://src01:00
awmcclainwhich will give me a /src branch + working directory, correct?01:00
awmcclainI need to change my tree to look like /trunk/src01:00
robeysince ppl are talking again: any word on bzr-git?01:01
awmcclainrobey: just that bzr-svn is broken for 1.2 too.01:01
* robey howls with pain01:01
fullermdrobey: I believe somebody (lifeless?) looked at it recently, but I'm not aware of any real movement.01:01
fullermd(where 'recently' is the past month or three)01:02
robeyi tried various branches from the launchpad project page for bzr-git, and they all failed in exactly the same way01:02
robeyit sucks cuz i really dont want to use git, but some stuff here is stored in git repos01:03
fullermdI don't think bzr-git is sufficiently present at its best to be useful for doing real work.  So it being broken doesn't necessarily lose you much   :)01:03
awmcclainfullermd: I'm just trying to set up my mainline server so that we can share feature branches, and I want to do it in such a way that encourages branching.01:03
awmcclainI guess another question would be: How would you change the root directory of a branch?01:05
fullermdYou mean the "move everything from / into /foo" thing?01:06
robeyif it was good enough to make a bzr branch from a git one, that would've probably been enough01:06
fullermdI don't think it was ever that good.01:06
robeyoh well, ok... thanks01:07
awmcclainif i have a branch /foo, i want to "reroot" it at /bar/foo01:08
fullermdawmcclain: Theoretically, with rich roots, one could pivot the root dir.  But there's no UI or other support for doing so.  So the real choice is pretty much as above; make a dir, and bzr mv everything into it.01:09
awmcclainfullermd: Exactly what I want to do.01:09
fullermdSee, that phrasing is unclear, which makes it tough to answer.01:09
awmcclainMy use of "reroot"01:09
fullermdIt could be read as "move the branch from /foo to /bar/foo", or it could be read as "move the contents of the branch which is located at /foo into the bar/ subdirectory inside the branch"01:09
awmcclainAh. Sorry. #101:10
fullermd(or alternately phrased; you could be talking about moving the _branch_, or you could be talking about moving stuff around _in the branch_.01:10
fullermdIf you want to move the branch, you just mv it.01:10
awmcclainbecause it's a directory?01:11
fullermdOr tar, or zip, or whatever other random mechanism you use for moving filesystem trees around.01:11
fullermdYah.  If it's a standalone branch, everything it needs is inside itself, so you can throw it around however you like.01:11
fullermd(if it's in a shared repo, a little more care is needed, since it doesn't have the repo included, but that's another matter)01:11
awmcclainWell, it's a branch inside a shared repo.01:11
awmcclainideally, i want to be able to say01:12
fullermdIf it's in a shared repo, as long as it stays under the repo, mv is still what you want.01:12
awmcclaini could do01:12
awmcclainbzr-init --trees repo; mkdir repo/trunk; bzr branch SOURCE_URL repo/trunk/src01:13
awmcclainand then from the client, bzr branch repo/trunk?01:13
awmcclainOK. That's what I want to do.01:13
fullermdYou can only branch a branch, which in this case would be "repo/trunk/src".  "repo/trunk" is nothing.01:13
fullermd(also, "bzr init-repo", not "bzr-init", but that's details)01:14
awmcclain(Sloppy typing sorry)01:14
fullermd'src' is a bad name for a branch.  You probably want 'repo/trunk' to be the branch.01:14
awmcclainthat's the problem01:14
fullermdEither that, or you want to have 'src' be a directory inside the branch.01:14
fullermd(possibly the only thing in the root of the branch)01:14
awmcclainThe problem is that right now, i have many project in my svn /trunk directory01:15
awmcclainso, in order for me to split things up01:15
awmcclaini can only do bzr branch svn://.../trunk/sub_proj01:15
fullermdMmm.  Let's assume proj1, proj2, and proj3.01:16
awmcclainBut, in bzr, i want to make /trunk/sub_proj the branch01:17
fullermdAnd we'll ignore the presence (or absence) of a share repo for the moment.01:17
awmcclainwell (/trunk)01:17
fullermdYou can arrange stuff two ways (an infinite number, of course, but 2 main ones)01:17
fullermdOne is01:17
fullermd/proj1/trunk, /proj2/trunk, /proj3/trunk01:17
fullermdThe other is /trunk/proj1, /trunk/proj2, /trunk/proj301:17
awmcclainSo, I want to have my bzr projects set up like choice A01:18
awmcclainBut my SVN is set up like choice B01:18
fullermdIn the former, other branches of each project would be under /projX, in the latter you'd have either /branchs/RANDOM, or /branches/proj1/RANDOM, /branched/proj2/RANDOM, etc.01:18
fullermdOK, that's no problem at all, since branches are independent.01:18
fullermdYou'll bzr branch svn://... once for each project, and you'll end up with N bzr branches, one for each project.01:18
fullermdThen you can arrange them however you like.01:19
fullermdIn svn, you're kinda stuck with them laid out however you did them initially.01:19
fullermdWith bzr, you can rearrange at will, because there's nothing quite like a svn repo; there's no higher level thing they're all explicitly pieces of.01:19
awmcclainSVN looks like this: /pandasite/trunk/panda /pandasite/trunk/artwork pandasite/trunk/notify01:20
awmcclainI want bzr to look like:01:20
awmcclain /pandasite/trunk/panda01:24
awmcclain /artwork/trunk01:25
awmcclain notify/trunk01:25
fullermdWas that first meant to be /panda/trunk?01:25
awmcclainSo, unfortunately, I can't branch the /pandasite/trunk into bzr, because that will give me two other projects01:25
awmcclainWe could call it /pandasite/trunk/src /pandasite/trunk/artwork01:26
awmcclainI have some "nested" directories in SVN that I want to fix when I move to bzr01:27
fullermdOK, well, let's forget about that, because it twists my brain into probably somewhat irrelevant side paths, and stick with the other two   :)01:27
awmcclainThat's the tricky one, though. :)01:27
awmcclainIm done witht eh other two01:27
fullermdWell, crud.01:27
awmcclainJust say you're given a branch that is /src01:28
awmcclainAnd you need to convert to a branch that is /trunk with a subdirectory /src01:28
fullermdI think you're confusing me because you're mixing up the branch, and what's in the branch, which doesn't happen in bzr.01:29
fullermdThe branch is /src.  It could as well be /, or /foo/bar/mybranch, or whatever?01:29
fullermdSo what you really want to do is "move the files/dirs in the root of the branch into a subdir".  I keep feeling like you mean more than that, because the solution to that seems so simple.01:31
awmcclainThat's what I want to do!01:31
fullermdWell, you want to make a dir in the branch, and move everything into it.  You do that by making a dir in the branch (technically, your working copy of the branch), and moving everything into it   :)01:32
awmcclainusing bzr mv01:33
awmcclaindo i need to bzr add the dir?01:33
fullermdI don't think you can actually 'bzr mv *' like you can with straight 'mv', since I dunno if it'll notice you trying to move a dir into itself and DTRT, but...01:33
awmcclaini was confused because I was equating "the directory at the root of the tree" with the definiation of the branch01:33
awmcclainDoes that make sense?01:34
fullermdAh.  Yeah, that could be a source of confusion.01:34
fullermdThere's a sharp line between "working on your project" (in which you essentially chroot into the root of the branch), and manipulating the branch from the outside.01:34
fullermd(in which case the branch is opaque)01:34
awmcclainand "working on your project" == "working within your working-tree"01:35
fullermdcd $BRANCH ; mkdir src ; bzr mv [A-Za-rt-z]* src ; {manually bzr mv s* files or dotfiles} ; bzr ci -m 'Move a bunch of crap'01:35
fullermdRight; your day to day "getting stuff done"01:35
awmcclainAh ha!01:36
fullermd(whoops, I missed the 'bzr add src' before the mv)01:36
* fullermd pours more coffee.01:37
awmcclainOk. Would another approach be to create a new branch (call it trunk)01:37
awmcclainthen somehow move the contents of $BRANCH2 into $TRUNK?01:37
awmcclain(without creating nested branches)01:37
fullermdWell, you could 'bzr branch src trunk' and do the work in trunk/ instead of src/ if you like.  No real reason to, though.01:38
fullermdOr just 'mv src trunk' (not 'bzr mv', since you're not working in a bzr tree).01:38
awmcclainbut mv src trunk would create nested branches, right?01:38
awmcclainyou have branch trunk01:38
awmcclainthen branch src inside trunk01:39
fullermdI meant with 'trunk' not existing; just renaming the directory.01:39
fullermdBranches aren't "called something"; they're just "located somewhere", so changing the "name" is just mv'ing the branch.01:39
awmcclainSo it wouldn't make senses to somehow move the working tree from branch src into a src directory in branch trunk01:41
awmcclain$SRC/*  ---> $TRUNK/src01:41
fullermdNot really.  Either way you have to move $BRANCH/* into $BRANCH/src/*.  It's just a question of whether you 'rename' the branch before or after, which affects nothing.01:42
awmcclainOh, just to be clear, I'm talking about moving working trees from two _separate_ branches, but I'm guessing you can't do that01:43
fullermdWell, you can merge the trees, then mv all the new files before commit.01:44
awmcclainok, let me just dive into this01:45
awmcclainIf I do all this branch work outside my shared repository, can I just push my branch into my shared repo?01:45
awmcclainCan I just cp it in?01:46
fullermdWell, yes and no.01:46
fullermdYou *can*.  But it'll still be a standalone branch, just one located inside a repo.01:46
awmcclainno, because it defaultst he purpsoe of the shared repo01:46
fullermdYou should consider too at what level you want the repo; whether all this goes in one, or you want one for each project.01:46
fullermdRight   :)01:47
awmcclainit's going to be01:47
awmcclain /repo (plain directory with a misleading name)01:47
awmcclain /artwork (branch)01:47
awmcclain /pandasite (shared repo)01:47
awmcclain /pandasite/trunk (branch)01:48
awmcclain /pandasite/andrew (dev branch)01:48
awmcclain everything from /artwork down lives in /repo01:48
* fullermd nods.01:48
awmcclain(/repo/artwork/) etc01:48
fullermdDon't need to handle multiple branches of artwork?01:49
fullermdWhat about notify?  Where does that fit?01:49
awmcclain /repo/notify (shared repo)01:52
awmcclain /repo/notify/trunk01:52
awmcclainSo, the same thing needs to happen for that01:52
awmcclainoh, no01:53
awmcclaini'll just do01:53
awmcclaincd repo; bzr init-repo --trees --rich-root-pack notify; cd notify; bzr branch svn://pandasite/trunk/notify trunk01:54
awmcclainbtw, thank you for taking the time to walk through this with me. As I've said before, the community and the docs are why I'm switching my team to bzr rather than hg.01:55
fullermdSounds like something remarkably like a plan to me.01:56
awmcclainOk, last thing... in order to push into the shared repo, I'll have to serve it on localhost, right?01:59
fullermdWell, on localhost, I'd just 'branch' instead of 'push'.  Comes out to the same thing, though.01:59
awmcclainSo, say my directory-fiddled branch ends up at ~/good-branch02:01
awmcclaini can just say, bzr branch ~/good-branch /repos/pandasite/good-branch02:02
awmcclainoh of course02:02
fullermdcd ~/good-branch ; bzr push /repos/pandasite/good-branch/ is _almost_ the same.  Either would work.  I'd just reflexively use 'branch'.02:03
awmcclainOk. Great!02:04
=== j_ack_ is now known as j_ack
etteyafedanyone know about a bzr plugin for netbeans?05:56
jml$ bzr branch bzr+ssh://myserver/home/jml/a/branch06:28
jmlbzr: ERROR: Generic bzr smart protocol error: bad protocol marker "error\x01Generic bzr smart protocol error: bad request 'bzr request 2'\n"06:28
jmlthat's not a fun error message06:28
awmcclainUg. One MORE error.08:28
awmcclainI can't checkout my branch from my mainline! Repository KnitPackRepository('file:///Users/andrew/clownfish/panda-mirror/.bzr/repository/') is not compatible with repository RemoteRepository(bzr+ssh://bamboo.fluther.com/repos/pandasite/.bzr/)08:29
awmcclainI inited my remote shared repo with --format=rich-root-pack so that I could import SVN branches into it.08:29
bob2you'll need to do the same for your local repository08:29
awmcclainah... I have to init a local repository in order to do a checkout from a shared repo?08:30
bob2what command gave you that error?08:31
awmcclainbzr checkout bzr+ssh://bamboo.fluther.com/repos/pandasite/trunk panda-mirror08:31
awmcclainI get no error if i do a branch08:32
bob2is clownfish or panda-mirror a repository root?08:32
bob2er, clownfish, that is08:33
awmcclainit is not08:33
awmcclainit is a vanillay directory08:33
bob2(and no, you don't need to init a local repository to do a checkout from a shared repo)08:34
awmcclaini don't get it then08:34
* bob2 tries a bzr+ssh checkout of a rich-root-pack branch08:34
bob2hah, same error08:34
awmcclainIs there any way to convert to KnitPack?08:35
awmcclainI have no need to communicate to SVN anymore... I just needed to port over from SVN08:35
bob2[09:55] <mwhudson> there's a bug where initial branches over bzr+ssh always create local branches in the default format08:36
bob2awmcclain: if you use sftp instead of bzr+ssh, it should work08:38
awmcclainAren't there weirdnesses with using sftp? Like losing some meta information or something?08:39
awmcclainOr... is there a way to convert rich-root-pack to knitpack?08:39
bob2awmcclain: the other workaround from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/12/13/%23launchpad.html is to use sftp for the first revision (-r1), then bzr up08:39
bob2I don't know of any weirdness from using sftp, aside from it maybe being slower08:40
awmcclainwhat does bzr up do?08:40
bob2if it's on a lan, it shouldn't matter08:41
awmcclainit's not08:41
awmcclainand speed is important08:41
bob2(bzr up would update you from rev1 to the current rev)08:43
awmcclainand in order to branch from SVN you _have_ to use rich-root-pack, right?08:43
awmcclainRight...makes sense08:43
bob2or rich-root, but the bug is that "co" always picks the current bzr default format, instead of the remote format08:44
bob2there is another confusing workaround08:47
bob2if you make a rich-root-pack repository on your local machine, then checkout into that, then it uses rich-root-pack for the check and thus works over bzr+ssh08:48
bob2thus making my intiial comment about not havbign to init a local repository quite wrong08:48
awmcclainAnd there's no command to remake the entire file repository, right?08:51
awmcclainbzr convert-file-format crappy-rich-root-format nice-knit-pack-format?08:52
awmcclainjust guess on the syntax. ;)08:52
bob2well, branches from svn require rich-root support, so no08:53
awmcclainright, but if i dont' need svn support anymore, can i convert them?08:53
bob2well, branches that didn't come from svn can be branched into a knit or pack repository08:54
bob2not sure if you mean "if I don't need to use branches that came from svn anymore" or "if I don't need my branches from svn to interact with svn anymore"08:55
awmcclainchoice B08:57
bob2not afaik, but I know little about bzr-svn08:58
awmcclaini'll try the workaround. thank you for your help!09:01
awmcclainbob2: still here?09:43
awmcclainIs there a better way of switching the source of my checkout from sftp:// to bzr+ssh:// than editing the branch.conf manually?09:44
bob2awmcclain: bzr switch bzr+ssh://...09:48
awmcclainthat's from inside the checkout, right?09:48
rysiek|plguys, where does bzr keep revno in branch/repo?10:17
luks_nowhere, they are calculated10:17
bob2("bzr revno" will figure it out)10:18
rysiek|plhmmm... ok, so what files should I watch (say, with inotify) to get a heads-up when a revno changes?10:18
rysiek|plbob2: yeah, I know, but I am trying to run something automagically when a revno changes10:18
luks_.bzr/branch/last-revision might work if you want only a single branch10:19
bob2surely a commit hook would be less hacky?10:19
luks_bob2: not if it's on a server and you want something like push hook10:20
rysiek|plluks_: I don't have anything named "last-revision" in there10:20
luks_revision-history for old branches10:21
luks_but you should upgrade them :)10:21
rysiek|pl$ find ./ -iname last* -> ./checkout/last-revision10:21
emilis_infoCan bzr checkout sourceforge svn on Ubuntu Gutsy? Fails on my machine.10:21
luks_oh, a checkout10:21
rysiek|plemilis_info: bzr != svn10:22
emilis_inforysiek|pl, I know10:22
bob2rysiek|pl: bzr-svn!10:22
emilis_infoI use the plugin10:22
luks_you said branch/repo, so I though you mean a branch10:22
rysiek|plluks_: ell, it is a branch10:22
luks_ls .bzr/branch10:22
emilis_info bzr selftest svn gives some output but ends in error: bzr: ERROR: Unable to import paramiko (required for sftp support): No module named paramiko10:22
rysiek|plluks_: yup. revision-history is her10:23
bob2emilis_info: you can install python-paramik to fix that10:23
bob2emilis_info: but can't imagine how that would affect svn support10:23
luks_yep, upgrading it would be a good idea, unless you have a reason to use the old format10:23
rysiek|plnope, just did a bzr upgrade (to 1.1) so it might be a good idea10:24
emilis_infobob2, I'll try now, thanks10:24
rysiek|plhope it won't mess my 2000+ revisions branch... ;)10:24
rysiek|plluks_: so, how can I upgrade a branch10:25
ubotuNew bug: #194675 in bzr "encoding problem with `bzr merge --preview | less`" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19467510:25
rysiek|plbzr upgrade10:25
* rysiek|pl is blind10:25
emilis_infodoh... got it working finally... seems I had to use https://...sourceforge.net/... instead of svn+https://...10:52
hsn_why are .bzr directories hidden on windows? this is confusing11:18
bob2because they're hiddon on unix11:18
hsn_but most programs in unix stills shows them, on windows practicaly nothing shows them11:20
AfCDo we ever use UDP in our bzr:// communications?11:42
=== maw is now known as mw
=== cprov is now known as cprov-out
ubotuNew bug: #194716 in bzr "bzr pull should support --local" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19471613:10
VSpikeI'm trying to do a bzr push by sftp on a lan and the command just goes away and does not return13:21
VSpikeHow can I figure out what the problem is?13:21
VSpikeI know I can ssh from one machine to the other succesfully, although it does normally require a password13:21
Odd_Blokejelmer: Hey, you around ATM?13:50
echo-are`was the format of the bzr.dev head updated again?13:55
echo-are`pulling remotely really takes long time again now13:55
bob2are you pulling into a rich root or knit repository?13:57
echo-are`how to see that?  sorry i'm a newbie13:59
bob2what command are you running, and where?14:00
echo-are`i'm running bzr pull14:01
echo-are`in the top level directory of my local version of bzr.dev14:01
bob2and that's just a branch you made, and not in a repository?14:02
hsn_is there simple way to convert checkout to lightweight checkout?14:02
echo-are`bob2: yes14:02
bob2hsn_: bzr reconfigure --lightweight-checkout should do it14:02
* echo-are` thinks he should not delay reading the bzr manual by other things now14:03
bob2afaik the format hasn't changed in a couple of months, and the only other thing I could suggest is that pulling packs into other format repositories is slow14:06
hsn_bob2: thanks, it worked14:07
echo-are`bob2: ok.  i recall that on nov 2007 the format was changed, and i did update my local format.  so perhaps this is because of the poor network i have.  thank you14:08
Odd_Blokeecho-are`: Does the output of 'bzr info' include 'pack' anywhere?14:08
bob2echo-are`: you can compare the output of "bzr info" and "bzr info http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev/"14:09
echo-are`Odd_Bloke: yes, it says "format: pack-0.92"14:09
Odd_Blokeecho-are`: In that case it's likely to be network.14:10
echo-are`bob2: Odd_Bloke: thanks.  i'll read the bzr manual right now :)14:11
=== maw is now known as mw
echo-are`bob2: when you mentioned "a repository", did you mean creating a repository with 'bzr init-repo' and executing 'bzr branch' etc in that repository?  thanks14:51
bob2yes, if you did that with a different repository format to that of bzr.dev, it could cause a slowdown14:53
echo-are`bob2: thanks :)15:22
awilkinsIs there any way to get bzr diff to just emit a list of paths that changed?15:35
awilkinsBah, never mind, I think bzr status is what I want15:36
james_wI'm trying to checkout a branch from launchpad using the smart server and Repository.get_parent_map() is taking a huge amount of time.15:39
awilkinsOk, next question, whats the easiest way to determine the common base revision of two given revisions?15:41
james_wawilkins: "bzr find-merge-base" can do it for two branches.15:45
awilkinsWould the algorithm there be something like "read back until they share a mainline revision id, then check all the merges to see which contiguos revisions they have in common"?15:47
* awilkins is more and more wishing he could use bzr instead of svn for this project....15:47
awilkinsMaybe I'll just try and use bzr-svn for it.15:48
james_wawilkins: I'm not sure what the algorithm is to be honest.15:48
awilkinsWell, I was just trying to work it out, but I'm glad there's an implementation already15:48
awilkinsIF I can't figure it out I'll have to do i9t for SVN (or integrate bzr-svn.... looking better and better....)15:49
awilkinsIf only the Eclipse plugins  for bzr were more mature./15:49
db-keenI have two bzr branches in a directory, can I just init-repo in that directory, or do I have to do something special?15:49
awilkinsdb-keen: init-repo another directory, and branch those two branches into it15:50
db-keenthen delete the original and rename the new one to the old one?15:50
awilkinsThat should work15:50
db-keenthanks, I'll do that15:51
Verterokawilkins: I'm working on making bzr-eclipse better :)15:59
awilkinsVerterok: Oh, much appreciated :-)15:59
Verterokawilkins: what are the key features you need in it?15:59
awilkinsVerterok: Difficult to say, I'm working on a project for rather-non-technical users16:00
Verterokmaybe I can push those first :)16:00
awilkinsI'll communicate with you as I go ... I'd quite like the bzr / Java binding that underlies it too.16:01
VerterokI just merged a improved 'new project wizard' (going to release it soon)16:01
awilkinsI thought the use of Jepp was prefereable to the "eats xml-output" approach, but that was mostly because xml-ouput was clashing with something at the time16:01
awilkinsVerterok: I might have a look at the wizard, I need a branch creation wizard that I can subclass to add functionality to mny users.16:02
Verterokawilkins: great, I'm currently working in the bindings, updating to 1.x syntax and implementing switch, merge and reconfigure16:02
awilkinsATM my project plan says "Subversion", but given their heavy and scary merge requirements I might persuade them otherwise16:03
Verterokawilkins: jepp is quite dificult to distribute, and Jython guys are targeting 2.5 :-D16:03
awilkinsOne downside being that the issue tracker I've settled on so far is integrated to a Subversion plugin16:03
* awilkins has no problems with Python 2.5, even though bzr officially targets 2.416:04
awilkinsThe issue tracker is a file based one, it shares little XML files around using a SVN repo16:04
Verterokawilkins: jython only supports 2.3 syntax, with 2.5 we can use bzrlib from jython :) (I already have jython integrated in eclipse)16:05
awilkinsI keep finding myself wanting a Mylyn tracker like that instead16:05
Verterokawilkins: did you look at bugs-everywhere? it's a similiar approach, but integrated with bzr16:06
awilkinsCan it do hook functions on workflow transitions?16:06
Verterokawilkins: sorry ┬┐hook functions?16:08
awilkinsI used a few brain cycles thinking about branched issue management the other day, merge the "issue fixed" along with the issues :-)16:08
awilkinsYeah, things like "before I allow the issue to make this transision, check this function returns "true"16:08
ltsamproshello ppl16:08
awilkinsSet field automatically, automatically commit + push on state transition, etc.16:08
Verteroki think, that can be done from a bzr hook and  bit of python glue16:09
Verterokawilkins: here is it: http://www.panoramicfeedback.com/opensource/index.html16:09
awilkinsI was thinking the same mysself..... is it integrated with Eclipse?16:09
* awilkins looks16:09
Verterokawilkins: I think is not16:10
awilkinsBut does it use dinky little XML files?16:10
awilkinsI could always write some integration, if it's easier than breaking my current appraoch (which really hasn't had too much work donwe to it)16:11
Verterokawilkins: I think it uses plain text files16:11
awilkinsWell, that's fine too16:11
ltsamprossorry for interrupting guys (i'm a very new user) , but let's say there is a repository like http://code.bitlbee.org/jelmer/win32/16:12
VerterokHi ltsampros16:12
ltsamprosaccording to the website, i'm told to create a local copy of the bitlbee-win32 branch using  bzr branch http://code.bitlbee.org/jelmer/win32 bitlbee-win3216:13
ltsamproswhich works of course16:13
Verterokawilkins: I'm sure abentley can help you with bug-everywhere integration with bazaar workflows16:13
Verterokltsampros: yep16:13
ltsamprosbut let's say i want to get a list of all published branches in that repository. is there a way to do so. a half hour googling didn't reveal anything16:13
Verterokltsampros: http://code.bitlbee.org/jelmer/win32 is one branch, not a repo in the svn/cvs-way16:14
awilkinsIf the web server lets you list the directory that'll workj :-)16:14
ltsamprosi see. thanks for the info16:15
Verterokltsampros: launchpad can help with that :) https://code.launchpad.net/bitlbee16:16
ltsamprosthanks for that too.16:17
ltsamprosintegration with launchpad seems nice16:17
awilkinsIntegration with launchpad will be veen incer when the source opens :-)16:44
ubotuNew bug: #194789 in bzr "Branches with symlinks can't be exported on Windows" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19478917:05
jelmerOdd_Bloke: hi!17:27
jelmerOdd_Bloke: still there?17:27
jelmerOdd_Bloke: Im in the debian room atm17:27
Odd_Blokejelmer: Cool.17:27
Odd_BlokeI attempted to get to that talk, but was too late to fit in. :p17:28
* jelmer is trying to get out atm, but I'm in the far back17:30
jelmerLarstiQ: ping17:31
seba__i try to run bzr fast-import17:40
seba__and get http://pastie.caboo.se/15632017:40
seba__any idea ?17:40
seba__python version prolly17:40
Verterokseba__: it seems that fast-import is using python-2.5 syntax17:45
Odd_Blokeseba__: Yeah, that's syntax that changed between 2.4 and 2.5.17:45
seba__yeah saw that17:45
seba__got this now:17:48
seba__$ bzr fast-import /del/dvcs-test/hg17:48
seba__bzr: ERROR: [Errno 21] Is a directory17:48
Odd_Blokeseba__: I believe that 'fast-import' is designed to import from a specific format.17:48
seba__I want to import from hg17:49
Odd_BlokeTo be able to import an hg branch, there needs to be Mercurial support for exporting to that format.17:49
seba__thing is i didn't really understand what is this front-end17:49
seba__ah ok17:50
seba__front-end | bzr fast-import -17:50
seba__I have to replace front-end by the one I chose17:50
hsn_can i upgrade remote repo to packs?17:58
awilkinsOnly via bzr+ssh, methinks17:58
Odd_Blokejelmer: I'm in the hacking room in the main building, BTW.18:00
seba__it seems as if it's mission impossible to hg -> bzr18:09
Odd_Blokeseba__: Yeah, unless you go via something that they both have decent conversion tools for.18:10
Odd_Blokejelmer: I'm being kicked out of the hacking room, so probably won't be on IRC for a while.18:11
Verterokseba__: maybe bzr-hg? http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrForeignBranches/Mercurial18:17
seba__Verterok, I tried this one18:20
seba__it's slow as hell18:20
awmcclainIf you have a local mirror branch with local feature branches, wouldn't it theoretically make branching faster to put them all in a local shared repository?18:20
Verterokseba__: the last option I'm aware is tailor, but never used it18:21
* Verterok lunch, bbl18:22
seba__Verterok, in fact i didn't try bzr-hg but http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~luks/+junk/bzr-hgimport18:22
seba__which was the slow one18:22
seba__but bzr-hg only allow mirroring18:22
seba__not direct export <-> import18:22
seba__and concerning tailor it was ~as slow as bzr-hgimport18:23
johnnyslow is a problem?18:23
johnnyit'll finish and you won't have to do it again?18:24
seba__yeah sure18:24
seba__i agree18:24
seba__but you know ppl are impatient :)18:24
johnnycalling it mission impossible is a big overstatement then18:24
johnnyunless it fails..18:24
seba__hg -> git was ~5h while hg -> bzr with bzr-hgimport would be 37h and with fast-import fails18:25
johnnygit is surely faster18:25
seba__and 37h when it doesn't fail in the middle for unknown reason...18:26
johnnygit makes more compromises tho in design18:26
seba__like ?18:26
johnnycompare monotone to git and you'll see18:26
seba__it's already hard job comparing hg, git, bzr18:27
bob2awmcclain: yes branching within a repository might be faster than not18:27
* awmcclain tests18:27
johnnyhg is out of the running for me, mainly due to the fact i think bzr will getmore use than hg18:28
johnnyand go farther, mostly due to launchpad if nothing else18:28
johnnyand git is still too cryptic to use18:28
johnnyespecially for vcs n00bs18:28
johnnyso for me, it is monotone vs bzr18:29
seba__fact is apart of Canonical partners bzr wasn't chosen by any big name so far...18:30
johnnythat's a big enough name, especially since launchpad mirrors so many repositories18:31
seba__and monotone isn't as popular as the 3 others18:31
johnnybut the design is amazing18:31
awmcclainseba__: I've used hg and bzr. I ended up choosing bzr for our team because a) the centralized features made sense for our webapp 2) the docs are much better IMHO 3) the eclipse plugin is _much_ better (and we're a partial eclipse shop18:31
johnnyseba__, you do know git got it's best ideas from monotone right?18:32
seba__what prevented you from having a central peer with hg ?18:32
seba__johnny, i do think it just got its ideas from BitKeeper instead...18:33
johnnyi'm sure they got some of the ideas18:33
johnnybut if you go back and read, you'll see that if mtn would have been faster at the time18:33
johnnywe might not even know what a "git" is18:33
seba__sure man18:33
awmcclainseba__: There aren't as many features to faciliate centralized workflows (i.e. checkouts to force lockstep development).18:33
seba__but that's the game...18:33
johnnyseba__, i was using bitkeeper around the time18:34
johnnyso i know about that whole situation, we had to switch too18:34
johnnywe were #3 on the bitkeeper list18:34
johnnyright behind the linux kernel and mysql18:34
seba__bzr lost many battle because of its crappy performance of the beginning18:34
seba__it's hard going back after such18:34
johnnywhen we chose, we didn't have a git to choose from :) and bzr barely exited18:35
awmcclainYup. I still think hg is a tad faster... but if you follow a workflow where you have local mirrors (which i think bzr does a better job promoting), then it's not really an issue18:35
johnnyoh..and when git did start.. there was definitely no win32 support18:35
awmcclainWoah! Big peedup!18:36
awmcclainAverage time branching without a shared repo... ~20sec18:36
awmcclainAverage time branching with a shared repo... ~3 sec18:37
awmcclainPlus, using a shared repo I can get around that rich-root-pack bug!18:37
* awmcclain cheers18:37
awmcclainOne question about http://bazaar-vcs.org/SharedRepositoryLayouts#simple-developer-naming-project-joe-foo-project-barry-bar18:53
awmcclainAre the developer names just folders in the repository? With branches inside them?18:54
abentleyawmcclain: yes19:04
ubotuNew bug: #177683 in trac-bzr "All revisions and changesets starts with a comma sign" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17768319:11
ubotuNew bug: #194831 in trac-bzr "Non-urlsafe characters are escaped in branch names" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19483119:21
db-keenI'm having trouble pulling an svn repo to branch into a repository20:38
db-keenbzr: ERROR: Repository KnitPackRepository('file:///[...]/.bzr/repository/') is not compatible with repository SvnRepository('http://[some_site]')20:38
db-keenit works fine if I branch outside the repository20:39
db-keencan I just bzr branch $SVNREPO $BRANCH;mv $BRANCH $LOCAL_BZR_REPO/20:41
james_wdb-keen: yes, bzr-svn requires something called 'rich-roots'. The default format does not support them.20:41
james_wYou can either create a "rich-root-pack" repository (bzr init-repo --rich-root-pack) for working with bzr-svn, or force bzr-svn to not use that repository, by using the workaround you suggest.20:42
james_w*providing that $BRANCH is not inside another shared repository*20:43
db-keenis there some reason I wouldn't use rich-roots?20:44
db-keenCan I convert an existing repo to use rich roots?20:45
james_wdb-keen: they are a watershed conversion, so once you switch to it all branches of that code you interact with must use it also.20:55
james_wThis is fine for bzr-svn based stuff, but for existing bzr projects it is harder.20:56
james_wFor new bzr projects then I suggest you use it.20:56
db-keenwhy is it harder?20:56
db-keenis it compatible with Launchpad?20:56
db-keenif I should use it for new projects and it works with svn when other formats don't, why isn't it the default?20:58
james_wyes, it is.20:58
james_wI'm not sure what the exact reason is really, but we want to transition soon.20:58
james_wone reason is that "bzr init-repo" would do the wrong thing to branch an existing project.20:59
db-keenI'm still not sure what you meant by "for existing bzr projects it is harder"21:00
awmcclaindb-keen: I *just* ran into this today21:20
awmcclainAlso note that as of 1.2.0, if' your client is using bzr+ssh:// you have to do a work around to check out SVN-based bzr branches as well.21:21
awmcclainSince the "smart server" transports create branches on the local machine in the default format, not the remote format21:22
db-keenwhat exactly do you mean svn-based?21:22
db-keenI'm still running bzr 1.1.021:23
awmcclainbzr branches that you import from SVN. I set up our machines to have a mainline on a central server (and I ported over our codebase from SVN), so when i made my shared repo i had to init with --format=rich-root-pack.21:24
awmcclain(in order to prevent that error that you're talking about)21:24
awmcclainThen, on my dev box, when I went to bzr co bzr+ssh://mainline local-mirror, it gives another error21:25
awmcclainIf you're not using a "smart" transport (bzr+ssh://, bzr://), you don't have to worry about that second bug.21:25
awmcclaindb-keen: Is the repository you're branching into on your local machine or a remote one?21:27
db-keenawmcclain: I'm trying to branch an svn repo on a remote machine into a bzr repo on the local machine21:28
awmcclainAnd you already have other, non-svn branches in your repo?21:28
db-keenI've been working with bzr without using repositories21:29
db-keenI'm still entirely sure what the advantage is, but people make it sound like a good idea for some reason...21:29
db-keenstill *not* entirely sure21:30
awmcclainAre your existing branches the same codebase as the svn branch?21:30
db-keenthey're related, I'm trying to merge code from another project (the svn) into my existing bzr project21:31
awmcclainHere's what I would do...21:32
johnnyi'm still trying to merge my understanding of what i'm used to working with. with bzr..21:32
johnnythus i have trouble with understanding the repository thing too21:33
awmcclainHere's how I think of bzr shared repositories21:33
awmcclain(as someone who just spent the last 3 days moving from SVN to bzr)21:33
johnnywell moving from svn to anything would be an improvement (except cvs)21:34
johnnyi avoided svn from the start.. so i dont'really have experience with that21:34
awmcclainNormally, when you make a self-contained branch, you have ALL of your version history in that branch, along with your working tree-- the "checkout" of that branch (to use SVN terms)21:35
awmcclainmeaning, the entire log is tucked away inside that directory21:36
johnnythe entire change graph21:36
awmcclainshared repositorities are basically special folders that hold the common histories of the branches inside them21:36
awmcclainjohnny: ye21:36
db-keenawmcclain: that seems like what I'm trying to do21:37
johnnysee.. i'm used to working with monotone, where that already happens by default21:37
awmcclainFor example:21:37
johnnyas long as you put your code in the same db21:37
awmcclainI have a mainline server21:37
awmcclainAnd I have a mirror on my local machine, and from that mirror i'll be making lots of little feature branches21:37
awmcclainWithout a shared repository (on my local machine), each time i branch i copy the ENTIRE history21:38
awmcclain(the entire graph)21:38
awmcclainbut, if my mirror and all my branches are in a repository21:38
awmcclainwhen I branch, I'm copying over (i think) just my working tree21:38
awmcclaindifference of 20 secs to branch vs 3 sec to branch21:38
awmcclainplus less disk space21:39
db-keenawmcclain: I keep all my projects in a single directory (~/Projects), should I just turn that directory into a repo?21:39
johnnyhmm. why do i feel that bzr is more complicated ..21:39
johnnydb-keen, not if they are unrelated it seems21:39
johnny~/projects/foo/ would be one21:39
db-keenthey are unrelated, but at the same time, I just might share code between them21:39
johnny~/projects/bar would be another21:39
awmcclainbecause you only really get a benefit of a shared repository when you have a signifcant common history21:39
johnnythen how are they related?21:40
johnnydb-keen, use case?21:40
awmcclaindb-keen: I'd say, if you're just cherry picking some change between them, don't worry about putting them all in a shared repo21:40
db-keenthat's what I thought, I just had to ask21:41
awmcclaindb-keen: Are projects/foo and projects/bar two different branches or two different projects?21:41
johnnyi meant projects when i used it as an example21:42
db-keenthe way I have it right now, subdirs of ~/projects are mostly branches, but I've been converting the larger ones into repos with nested branches21:43
awmcclaindb-keen: Can you give an example of the one of your repos?21:43
johnnyyou should go with ~/projects/random for random unassociated branches21:45
johnnyor something21:45
johnnyand then ~/projects/projectfoo for repos21:45
johnnyfor all branches of projectfood21:45
johnnyerr foo*21:45
lifelessjohnny: unrelated projects work fine in a reop21:46
lifelessjohnny: repos are _just_ storage optimisation.21:46
johnnyeither way... the actual shared ones can go together21:46
johnnyor should21:46
db-keenI have to go, but thanks for your help21:47
db-keenI might be back later...21:47
awmcclainWhat's the bzr command to show me what files have changed in a branch?22:30
luksbzr st?22:31
awmcclainThat's not recursive, though, right?22:32
luksit is22:32
luksit displays files for the whole branch by default22:32
awmcclainSorry, i was looking in the wrong branch. You're totally right. :)22:34
awilkinsThe bit about bzr I find more complicated is the multiple repo formats, and the no-fixed-central-point thing.23:25
johnnythe no fixed central point is at least par for the course among all the systems :)23:25
johnnyexcept svn and cvs that is23:25
johnnythe multiple repo formats is certainly an annoyance in bzr atm23:26
awilkinsAnd a lack of mature integrated GUI tools... I'm too used to being able to r-click on a file and get a diff in my favourite diff tool23:26
johnnysomething to deal with at some point23:26
johnnyonce again.. par for the course :)23:26
johnnythere are some tortoise type things iirc23:27
johnnyfor other systems23:27
awilkinsHandling win32 file locking semantics is another thing23:27
johnnydoes any system handle that well?23:27
johnnyit's been awhile since i've used anything on windows23:27
awilkinsTortoiseSVN is of course very good at it :-)23:28
johnnynasty windows23:28
johnnyi'm glad i only have to make small glances at worry about support with23:28
awilkinsIn some ways, I don't really trust the whole laxy unlinking thing23:28
johnnywith windows*23:29
johnnywindows file locking sucks.. i'm so glad i don't have to worry about..23:29
PengThe one good thing about the multiple formats is that at least it's handled pretty smoothly.23:31
* awilkins could name several bugs that contradict that theory23:31
Peng"pretty". :P23:32
johnnyi bet they relate to svn crap :)23:35
awilkinsTranslating between pack-092 and rich-root-pack are the ones I've bumped into :-)23:36
PengAh, yeah.23:36
PengIncompatible formats seem to be the main rough spot at the moment. :\23:37
lifelessawilkins: you can use a fixed central location i fyou want, by using 'checkout and commit' rather than 'branch and push'23:49

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