[00:04] <swx_> helllooo
[00:05] <flipstar> hi
[00:05] <swx_> does anyone has news of alpha 5
[00:06] <flipstar> bugs in ubiquity .. needs to be fixxed..
[00:09] <flipstar> and few other bugs
[00:15] <Kuni> it's good to actually have answers when people come asking now, huh? :)
[00:16] <flipstar> hehe
[00:16] <Habbie> :)
[00:17] <flipstar> anyone here ever tried ubuntustudio ?
[00:17] <flipstar> im trying to find out what ubuntustudio has what *ubuntu have not ..
[00:17] <Kuni> never tried it, although I know it's theme is pretty
[00:18] <Kuni> :)
[00:18] <flipstar> the wallpaper seems so blurred..
[00:20] <flipstar> but theres no live cd for that..thats bad
[00:21] <Kuni> the dvd can't boot live?
[00:21] <Kuni> (it's a dvd, right?)
[00:22] <flipstar> no only an alternate cd
[00:22] <Kuni> weird
[00:24] <swx_> thks for the answer:)
[00:25] <Kuni> you can get all the stuff for Studio in gnome pretty easily I believe
[00:25] <swx_> but just tell me... it is delayed to tomorrow
[00:25] <swx_> ;)
[00:26] <Kuni> swx_: well, we really don't know
[00:26] <swx_> ok
[00:26] <swx_> ;)
[00:26] <flipstar> Kuni: yes..already guessed that :) btw i have kde
[00:26] <Kuni> the devs basically told me: "it will be released when it's ready"
[00:26] <swx_> pretty good answer
[00:26] <Kuni> flipstar: I know, that's why I said gnome. I don't know about KDE.
[00:27] <Kuni> flipster: although you can do sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop to get gnome, but I'm sure you know that.
[00:27] <dholbert> Anyone know when Hardy Alpha 5 is going to be available?  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule says today, but it's not up yet
[00:27] <flipstar> theres also an kde version ubuntustudio
[00:27] <flipstar> dholbert: day aint over yet :)
[00:27] <Kuni> dholbert: we don't have an actual release yet. the devs still have a few bugs to work out
[00:28] <Kuni> dholbert: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all
[00:28] <dholbert> Kuni / flipstar: K thanks. :)
[00:28] <Kuni> no problem
[00:30] <dholbert> Kuni: Is there anywhere I can download an almost-alpha5 iso, and then just get updates when those last few bugs are fixed? :)
[00:31] <dholbert> aside from downloading alpha 4
[00:31] <Kuni> well
[00:31] <Kuni> I suppose you could get the current test version from that site
[00:32] <dholbert> Ah, n/m - I was looking for but hadn't found the download link
[00:32] <dholbert> but now I see it
[00:32] <dholbert> thanks
[00:32] <Kuni> np
[00:33] <dholbert> If i install from that, will I get updates to bring me on par with the actual alpha5 release?
[00:33] <Kuni> *shrug*
[00:33] <dholbert> k :) I'll just wait then
[00:34] <Kuni> I suppose you could ask the devs at #ubuntu-devel
[00:34] <flipstar> dholbert: you dont even need that daily build for that
[00:34] <flipstar> you can also upgrade from alpha1 or so
[00:35] <dholbert> flipstar: Yeah, I know, I'm just imagining it'd be better to install from almost-alpha5 than to install from alphas 1-4
[00:35] <Kuni> or gutsy even. :)
[00:35] <crimsun_> dholbert: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ for the alternate; http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ for the desktop.
[00:35] <flipstar> no its the same thin
[00:35] <flipstar> g
[00:36] <flipstar> !final | dholbert
[00:36] <ubotu> dholbert: If you installed a Alpha/Beta/RC version of Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) and have been keeping it up to date, then you are already running the latest version of Hardy. To make sure, type « sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade » in a console.
[00:36] <Kuni> I'm waiting because I want to test wubi
[00:36] <dholbert> ah ok
[00:36] <dholbert> So flipstar, just to confirm, if i install today's daily build, I'll get automatic updates to make me match alpha5 + beyond?
[00:37] <flipstar> right but you dont even need that daily build for that
[00:37] <flipstar> daily build is for testing..
[00:38] <Duninho> Hello, i have a problem with instaling ubuntu (alternate) could anyone help me?
[00:38] <Kuni> you can just get alpha-4
[00:38] <Kuni> if we can certainly
[00:39] <Duninho> You want short or long description of bug? :)
[00:39] <dholbert> flipstar: K, thanks
[00:40] <dholbert> Haha -- alpha4 just disappeared off of http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/
[00:40] <Kuni> well, let's start with short
[00:40] <Kuni> really?
[00:40] <Duninho> Anyway shortly speaking, it dont fails at detecting my cdrom
[00:40] <dholbert> and now alpha-5 is there, though just with "source"
[00:40] <dholbert> yeah
[00:41] <Kuni> Duniho: it doesn't detect your cd-rom drive?
[00:41] <crimsun_> it's because the release manager just pressed "the plunger"
[00:41] <Kuni> Duniho: this is a known bug with hardy alpha-*
[00:41] <Duninho> Yes, and then it asks for drivers on floppy disc which i dont have
[00:42] <Duninho> It happens also on openSUSE
[00:42] <Kuni> Duniho: have you tried installing gutsy instead of hardy?
[00:42] <dholbert> Duninho: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5#head-e2e103d58e482a75134c06f268e9982e6c3bacde
[00:42] <dholbert> The kernel in Alpha 5 is unable to access CD-ROM devices in some configurations, [...]
[00:42] <Duninho> I tried them both + kubuntu and tommorow i'll try Fedore
[00:42] <dholbert> As a workaround, users can boot the installer with the additional "all_generic_ide" boot option. [WWW] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181561
[00:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181561 in linux "Hardy alpha 2/3/4 daily-live i386 don't boot" [Unknown,Confirmed]
[00:43] <Duninho> ow also i tried to boot it with both noscsi and noapic i'll try with all_generic_ide in few mins
[00:44] <flipstar> alternate of alpha5 is availible http://torrent.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-5/alternate/
[00:44] <cyphase> woot! alpha 5!
[00:44] <Kuni> hip hip
[00:44] <Kuni> hooray!
[00:44] <Duninho> ow sorry i tried alpha 4 :)
[00:45] <flipstar> uhm desktop also
[00:45]  * cyphase was using a notification program that was checking the page every minute :P
[00:45] <flipstar> for amd at least
[00:45] <Duninho> Kuni you think it will work with alpha 5?
[00:45] <Kuni> page is up at http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-5/
[00:46] <Kuni> Duninho: <dholbert> As a workaround, users can boot the installer with the additional "all_generic_ide" boot option. [WWW] https://launchpad.net/bugs/181561
[00:46] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181561 in linux "Hardy alpha 2/3/4 daily-live i386 don't boot" [Unknown,Confirmed]
[00:46] <dholbert> Kuni: thanks
[00:46] <flipstar> nicenicenice
[00:46] <Kuni> np
[00:47] <dholbert> isos don't seem to be there yet though
[00:47] <Kuni> isos are, I'm downloading PC Desktop Live
[00:47] <Duninho> Thanks Kuni i'll try that, and sorry if im making mess in here but its my first time on a irc, im a irc virgin :p
[00:48] <Kuni> lol np
[00:48] <dholbert> yay, isos are there now
[00:51] <cyphase> hmm, 1 seed on the torrent
[00:51] <cyphase> nvm, there's more now
[00:51] <flipstar> no one on kde ..
[00:52] <Duninho> ok im going off to try that, thx a lot for help :)
[00:52] <Amaranth> flipstar: There should at least be 1 seeder (the server)
[00:53]  * cyphase is downloading via http for now
[00:53] <Amaranth> Please use bittorrent
[00:53] <Amaranth> Even if it isn't faster for you you'll help to make it faster for others and reduce load on the server
[00:53] <Kuni> amaranth: would you prefer us to use bittorrent to http?
[00:53] <Amaranth> Kuni: Yes please
[00:54] <Kuni> k, will do
[00:54] <Amaranth> Or download with http then use that download to seed the torrent
[00:54] <flipstar> this is what i'll do
[00:54] <Amaranth> Just as long as you're sharing some bandwidth :)
[00:54] <Kuni> Amaranth: I was actually planning on the latter option, so good. :) Also, by the way, awesome name. Is it for the plant or the song? or some other reason?
[00:55] <Amaranth> "cool sounding word" in google long before that band ever existed :)
[00:55] <Amaranth> but I chose it because of the flower
[00:55] <Kuni> we must be thinking of a different song, cause I think Nightwish is older than Google.
[00:56] <Amaranth> "An imaginary flower supposed never to fade."
[00:56] <Amaranth> Kuni: Really? I thought they came about in 2002
[00:56]  * Gnine thought some D&D type of name that was
[00:56] <Kuni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightwish
[00:56] <Amaranth> ah, 1997
[00:56] <Kuni> :)
[00:56] <Amaranth> not older than google :)
[00:57] <Kuni> darnit
[00:57] <Amaranth> My firefox has a "Wikipedia" search engine
[00:57] <Amaranth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%s
[00:57] <Kuni> mine too
[00:57] <Gnine> my firefox is crap right now
[00:58] <Amaranth> anyway, i've had this name since at least 2002
[00:58] <Kuni> lol
[00:58] <Laney> Access denied to the release notes :(
[00:58] <Kuni> it's a good name
[00:58] <Kuni> Also a great song.
[00:58] <Amaranth> Everyone thinks its from the song, I don't like that band :)
[00:58] <Kuni> really? wow
[00:58] <Amaranth> Before they made that song they thought I made the "Amaranth" theme
[00:58] <Kuni> lol
[00:59] <Gnine> whoa! my firefox profile is .. back.. wth.. it was gone a day ago..
[00:59] <Amaranth> No one knows what that is anymore, it got removed from the default GNOME themes
[01:00] <Amaranth> so...
[01:00] <Gnine> all bookmarks and settings .. gone.. now it seems like they are back
[01:00] <Amaranth> We fixed Intel 965 with Compiz
[01:00] <flipstar> download complete
[01:00] <flipstar> md5..check
[01:00] <Amaranth> There is currently no video chip blacklisted by compiz, if compiz won't run your driver just doesn't support 3D acceleration or texture_from_pixmap (old nvidia drivers, via, etc)
[01:01]  * Amaranth cheers
[01:01] <Amaranth> That was a pain in the butt
[01:01] <Gnine> seahorse had lost my keys too.. they're there now too..
[01:01] <Gnine> what a hack
[01:01] <Amaranth> ?
[01:01] <flipstar> torrent sharing started :)
[01:01] <Amaranth> flipstar: Thanks!
[01:01] <Kuni> That's awesome. So can I finally run compiz in vmware?
[01:02] <Gnine> i got an ati update , i have nvidia.
[01:02] <Kuni> Gnine: yeah, me too.
[01:02] <Habbie> so
[01:02] <Amaranth> Kuni: No, you don't have 3D acceleration :)
[01:02] <Habbie> is openssh-server on the alpha5 hardy-server-i386.iso? :)
[01:02] <Amaranth> Gnine: I have nvidia and I have the intel and ati drivers installed :P
[01:03] <Gnine> so do i. but why...
[01:03] <Amaranth> Even though this is a laptop so there is no way I could ever use those
[01:03] <Gnine> exactly
[01:03] <Amaranth> Because they're pulling in by default
[01:03] <Kuni> Amaranth: darnit. stupid vmware. :)
[01:04] <Kuni> guess I'll just have to stick to one of my hd installs
[01:04] <Amaranth> Unlike Windows our drivers aren't 300MB per printer and other such crap so it's 'cheap' to just include every single driver for everything
[01:04] <Kuni> heehee
[01:04] <Gnine> i buy that.. still a little fishy though
[01:05] <Kuni> download speeds are fluctuating like crazy...I feel sorry for the poor servers
[01:05] <flipstar> yes they must have heavy bills :/
[01:06] <Gnine> bittorrent should be more aggresively 'marketed' to the ubuntu community imo
[01:06] <Kuni> Gnine: I agree. It's not the most obvious way to get the files, to say the very least.
[01:07]  * Gnine nods
[01:07] <flipstar> updates also
[01:07] <swx_> thks to the ubuntu dev team for A5
[01:07] <Kuni> dang...3.4 megaBYTES per second over http for a little while there
[01:08] <Gnine> thats better than debian's torrents which were unavailable from their very website
[01:09] <Gnine> at least that was it a day ago
[01:12] <Kuni> seeding
[01:12] <Kuni> (finally)
[01:13] <dueryte> I am having trouble with my graphics, monitor and display say (libraries libpython2.5.so) not found.
[01:14] <Kuni> ugh
[01:14] <Kuni> brb
[01:19] <dueryte>  I am having trouble with my graphics, monitor and display say (libraries libpython2.5.so) not found. It is not seeing my video card, and is there a way I can fix this?
[01:19] <crimsun_> do you have python2.5-dev installed?
[01:20] <dueryte> I guess not, it says its missing, it also is not found in adept
[01:20] <crimsun_>      2.5.1-6ubuntu1 0
[01:20] <crimsun_>         500 http://archive.ubuntu.com hardy/main Packages
[01:21] <dueryte> ok thank you for your time and help
[01:24] <NoelJB> Hardy Alpha 5 was posted just a little bit ago.  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing hasn't be updated, so go directly to http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-5/
[01:24] <Kuni> NoelJB: Yup
[01:25] <Kuni> NoelJB: Thanks
[01:25] <NoelJB> Welcome.
[01:36] <cyphase> 371 updates between Alpha 4 and Alpha 5
[01:42] <NoelJB> cyphase: how did you determine that (e.g., what command)?
[01:42] <ffm> are packages still accepted for universe for hardy?
[01:42] <cyphase> NoelJB: i have Alpha 4 installed in a VM, and i had taken a snapshot of a fresh Alpha 4 installation
[01:42] <cyphase> so i reverted back to that, and checked for updates
[01:42] <NoelJB> Ah  :-)
[01:44] <NoelJB> I'm running Hardy natively, and prefer to start each alpha with a reformat.
[01:45] <cyphase> NoelJB: if i was running hardy natively, i would too :)
[01:45] <cyphase> i reformat for every new version of ubuntu anyway
[01:50] <Flannel> !away > ajmorris|AFK
[01:57] <coz_> hey guys
[01:57] <Habbie> hi coz
[01:57] <coz_> Habbie, hey hello
[01:58] <coz_> so what is the current state of hardy
[01:58] <coz_> working?  tolerable? :)  broken ?
[01:58] <Habbie> works for me :)
[01:58] <coz_> cool
[01:58] <coz_> I am getting tired of fesity
[01:58]  * Habbie is off to bed
[01:58] <Habbie> have fun.
[02:00] <NoelJB> coz_: depends on what you want.  it is tolerable, but broken would be my view, but YMMV.
[02:01] <coz_> NoelJB, oh  well I am not expecting anything stable at this point
[02:01] <NoelJB> coz_: exactly.  for me, the regression from gutsy that causes hardy to freeze whenever you pull a drive from a hotswap bay is a serious flaw.
[02:02] <coz_> NoelJB, oooo    yeah that is a flaw for sure
[02:03] <coz_> NoelJB, I was running it last week or so and the nvidia driver problem I saw reported  not being able to boot back up hit me so i went back to fesity but still it is going to be nice when released as long as some of the things that work now still work after release which didnt happen with edgy or feisty after release
[02:08] <NoelJB> coz_: really?  I've not had a problem with nvidia and not being able to boot.
[02:09] <coz_> NoelJB, yeah I read one bug about it and it hit me at some point so I just went to feisty and also because the wacom tablet drivers were not there and java didnt work so it was no big deal
[02:24] <cyphase> that's cool.. the "Install Ubuntu" option..
[02:24] <Flannel> cyphase: you mean ubiquity-only?
[02:25] <cyphase> i suppose it is
[02:25] <Flannel> Where you don't have the live environment, just ubiquity?
[02:25] <cyphase> yea
[02:26] <Flannel> Yeah, thats available in gutsy too, just not advertised heavily
[02:26] <cyphase> ah
[02:27] <cyphase> well, still.. nice that it's more prominent now
[02:28] <wastrel> i have hardy
[02:29] <naught101> anyone else here using kubuntu hardy+ firefox?
[02:29] <naught101> if so, does it look crap?
[02:29] <flipstar> yep thats the old gtk thing
[02:29] <naught101> any way to fix it?
[02:30] <flipstar> yep
[02:30] <flipstar> try "ln -s ~/.gtkrc-2.0-kde ~/.gtkrc-2.0" and then run firefox
[02:30] <cyphase> hmm, the new timezone chooser is sort of rough around the edges
[02:31] <naught101> flipstar: I got a file exists error
[02:31] <flipstar> oh
[02:31] <naught101> probably left over from when I had gutsy
[02:31] <flipstar> then install firefox-themes-ubuntu
[02:31] <wastrel> woo 194 updates wish me luck
[02:32] <naught101> hrrm... tabbing in a terminal doesn't work with sudo anymore
[02:33] <naught101> flipstar: didn't change anything, any other ideas?
[02:34] <flipstar> extras->addons->themes(in firefox)
[02:35] <naught101> flipstar: ahhh... perhaps this isn't working because I'm using FF3
[02:36] <flipstar> naught101: you changed it ? then it should work now
[02:36] <naught101> what? no, nothing appeared in themes
[02:36] <lime4x4> slow transfer speeds to a samba share 1.6 mb per sec both pc's hardwired to a 10/100 router i assume this is still due to the gvs issue also using vnc is also slow on local network
[02:37] <flipstar> hm but you did install it ?
[02:37] <naught101> yep
[02:37] <naught101> perhaps it's only for FF2?
[02:37] <flipstar> no
[02:37] <naught101> wierd
[02:38] <flipstar> it should appeare there
[02:38] <flipstar> no it must!
[02:38] <flipstar> maybe restart firefox just for fun
[02:39] <naught101> I did, twice. all I have is firefox default theme, which is already on
[02:43] <naught101> when I say it looks crap, I'm refering specifically to the tabs, but also things in the preferences look the wrong size, as do radio buttons and dropdowns on webpages
[02:43] <wastrel> mmm firefox crashed
[02:43] <flipstar> this is not only in firefox also in other gtk apps
[02:44] <naught101> just a sec, I'll start gimp and see
[02:45] <flipstar> not all gtk apps..but some..like firestarter
[02:45] <naught101> nah, just FF3, gimp looks fine
[02:45] <naught101> I only use FF3, thunderbird, and GIMP, I think
[02:46] <flipstar> audacios also claims about brocken gtk-engine ..
[02:46] <naught101> the tabs look wierd in thunderbird 2 in preferences, but they always have
[02:46] <naught101> maybe I'll just try to download another theme
[02:47] <flipstar> yep you could try that.. ColorGnome for e.g.
[02:47] <flipstar> i personally like that one but doesnt have to mean any
[02:48] <naught101> what was the default for FF2?
[02:50] <naught101> there doesn't seem to be man for FF3 yet
[02:50] <naught101> know if it's safe to go back to 2, in terms of preferences? are they compatible?
[02:51] <flipstar> guess yes
[02:52] <cooldevices> mmm whats this about gtk? new bugs with new updates?
[02:53] <flipstar> no
[02:53] <flipstar> old bugs
[02:53] <wastrel> i have to reboot now
[02:54] <flipstar> gl
[02:54] <naught101> firefox 2 isn't available in hardy??
[02:54]  * burner is going to find out in about 3 hours after it finishes downloading
[02:58] <Flannel> naught101: correct.  burner: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=firefox&searchon=names&suite=hardy&section=all
[02:59] <naught101> ah well. have to suffer then :)
[03:05] <syke> hi!
[03:06] <syke> will eclipse (and cdt) finally be updated to the latest stable versions?
[03:07] <wastrel> i rebooted
[03:12] <cyphase> is displayconfig-gtk going to be fixed for hardy?
[03:14]  * burner would assume so cyphase
[03:14] <cyphase> i can't find anything about it.. it's like development just stopped
[03:15] <tonyyarusso> Anyone else noticed Hardy dimming their laptop display when it shouldn't?
[03:16]  * burner pictures tonyyarusso afro'd hackergotchi
[03:18] <wastrel> tonyyarusso: yes
[03:18] <burner> I'm about 2 hours from running hardy... is it a very bad idea to use hardy on files I care about?  is gvfs still sketchy?
[03:18] <cooldevices> cyphase: from what i see it is fixed already
[03:18] <tonyyarusso> wastrel: Do you know a bug number offhand, or shall I go searching?
[03:19] <wastrel> tonyyarusso: no i haven't looked into it yet
[03:20] <cyphase> burner: i believe the release notes say something to that effect
[03:21] <cyphase> under the Caveats section
[03:21] <cyphase> "Due to the switch to GVFS, which is not feature complete, the "Network" item in the Places menu doesn't work, and Nautilus can behave erratically, especially in trash operations. Refrain from operating on valuable files with this version. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/185756 "
[03:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 185756 in gvfs "Couldn't display "network:///" - Nautilus cannot handle network:locations" [Medium,Fix committed]
[03:22] <strabes> what's the deal with alpha 5?
[03:22] <cooldevices> dling
[03:22] <burner> i can handle not using network:// or trash://
[03:22] <burner> thanks cyphase
[03:22] <strabes> it's not out on the release schedule!!
[03:22] <cyphase> burner: you're welcome :)
[03:24] <cooldevices> network work if you use smb://
[03:24] <burner> cool... network:// is for lamers ;)
[03:30] <ethana2> hey guys, what distro should i use for a 100MHz PI with ~16MB of RAM and 850MB total HDD space?
[03:30] <ethana2> or rather, where should I ask?
[03:31] <stdin> ##linux maybe
[03:32] <ethana2> k
[03:32] <ethana2> thanks
[03:33] <burner> puppy or dsl come to mind
[03:33] <burner> but that might be too minimal for puppy or dsl
[03:36] <ethana2> dsl looks like it'll do
[03:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Yeah~ alpha 5!!
[03:40] <cooldevices> ethana2: http://www.minix3.org/
[03:40] <ethana2> ^_^
[03:40] <ethana2> cooldevices, monolithic kernels FTW!
[03:40] <ethana2> lol
[03:41] <cooldevices> ubuntu uses modular kernel
[03:49] <NoelJB> naught101: yes, ff3 looks like crap.  there are bugs opened against it in launchpad.
[03:50] <naught101> NoelJB: ahh, good.
[03:50] <strabes> is there a reason that hardy alpha 5 isn't listed on the release schedule wiki?
[03:50] <naught101> strabes: it is.
[03:50] <naught101> aor it was when I checked a couple of days ago
[03:50] <strabes> it still says "delayed until 22nd
[03:50] <cooldevices> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/8.04/
[03:50] <NoelJB> naught101: which video driver are you using?
[03:50] <naught101> NoelJB: intel. should that affect it?
[03:51] <strabes> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule it's not on tehre
[03:51] <strabes> or at least, it's not linked to
[03:51] <cooldevices> strabes: so what?
[03:51] <strabes> maybe it should be so that people know it's released
[03:51] <cooldevices> you need iso or what?
[03:51] <strabes> i'm downloading it right now
[03:51] <cooldevices> yeah
[03:51] <strabes> i'm just wondering, jeez
[03:52] <NoelJB> naught101: no, actually, that's a good thing because it further demonstrates that it isn't an nVidia specifc issue.  The anti-nVidia camp is constantly trying to shift the blame for everything to the nvidia driver.
[03:52] <naught101> hehe
[03:52] <NoelJB> And since nVidia is so common, we need non-nVidia folks to help confirm that there is a defect to be fixed.
[03:52]  * naught101 cant wait for proprietary drivers to become a thing of history
[03:53] <naught101> you want me to on launchpad?
[03:53]  * strabes agrees
[03:53] <cooldevices> naught101 proprietary hardware too?
[03:53] <naught101> cooldevices: indeed
[03:53]  * strabes can't wait for ati to release documentation or decent drivers
[03:53] <NoelJB> naught101: yes, but in the meantime we have real work to do, and Ubuntu with some non-Open code is far better than Vista with all closed code.
[03:53] <naught101> not to mention copyright, capitalism, and property in general
[03:53] <strabes> ?? i have no problem with capitalism and property
[03:54] <naught101> NoelJB: for sure
[03:54] <strabes> just software patents
[03:54] <naught101> why not? what's the difference? it's all power of the few over the many
[03:54] <NoelJB> strabes: +1 on that issue.  Should be eliminated.
[03:54] <strabes> :D
[03:55] <NoelJB> In any event, that's a discussion for a different channel.  naught101, yes, I can give you the bug # on launchpad if you want it.
[03:55] <naught101> NoelJB: i don't really care, but if you want an intel person to check it out, I can
[03:56] <NoelJB> see bug #191791
[03:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191791 in firefox-3.0 "Firefox-3.0 zoomed images and webpages" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/191791
[04:01] <maccam94> do file copies still trash hardy?
[04:02] <maccam94> tomorrow is an Ubuntu Massachusetts Team Installfest, and I'm wondering if i should bother trying to demo a Hardy installation
[04:02] <wastrel> file copies?
[04:03] <wastrel> trash how?
[04:03] <cooldevices> you even not trying it and sying it "trash" hardy? i dont know what this mean, but worked fine for me since beta4
[04:03] <cooldevices> alpha 4 i mean
[04:03] <maccam94> ok, gnome-vfs was being replaced as i recall
[04:03] <maccam94> something to do with gnome file operations having issues
[04:03] <cooldevices> yeah and they have warnings about that
[04:03] <wastrel> ah i don't use the gnome file manager typically
[04:04] <wastrel> haven't seen a problem with cp
[04:04] <wastrel> :]
[04:04] <maccam94> haha
[04:04] <cooldevices> i use
[04:05] <maccam94> cooldevices: so is it still dangerous or no? or is it in a "once in a while it has an issue" state
[04:05] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> there was issues to connect to network folder due to changing to gvfs
[04:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> dont know if it's still still there
[04:06] <gaminggeek> is hardy in beta yet?
[04:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> alpha 5
[04:06] <gaminggeek> ok
[04:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> and apha 6 and hopefully beta
[04:07] <cooldevices> maccam94: Refrain from operating on valuable files with this version. - this is what devs said
[04:07] <cooldevices> but i have no issues
[04:07] <cooldevices> think for yourself
[04:07] <maccam94> cooldevices: ok, but is it stable enough to run on a clean demo machine?
[04:08] <maccam94> and is there anything cool to show off vs. gutsy at the moment?
[04:08] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> copy files?
[04:08] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> kidding
[04:08] <cooldevices> maccam94:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5
[04:08] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ff3
[04:09] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: i only meant that if i left it up for people to play with, would that be a good or a bad idea
[04:09] <maccam94> lol
[04:09] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> maccam94, im using it all the time
[04:09] <maccam94> k
[04:10] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> so i guess it's pretty stable to play with ^^^
[04:23] <wobbo> Jeej! http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-5/
[04:29] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> is kde 4 working in hardy?
[04:30] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> get bored, wanna to try it
[04:30] <burner> kde4 was working in gutsy
[04:30] <burner> i'd assume it's working in hardy
[04:30] <Tuv0k> well try it, and tell your story
[04:30] <burner> 4.01 maybe?
[04:30] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ok
[04:31]  * burner wants a working mic so he can create screencasts with audio overlay
[04:31] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> i will be the gene pig
[04:31] <maccam94> guinea :-P
[04:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ya
[04:32] <maccam94> unless you want to be a pig made up of deoxyribonucleic acids :-P
[04:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> how to install it tho
[04:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> haha, very funny
[04:33] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> aptitude install kde4?
[04:35] <maccam94> yes
[04:35] <maccam94> there is a kde4 package
[04:35] <RoC_MasterMind> is there any way at all to use a pptp VPN while I have a static IP on my nic?
[04:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> should i use the kubuntu-members-kde4 repo?
[04:38]  * maccam94 has no idea, doesn't use KDE or hardy
[04:38] <maccam94> lol
[04:38] <burner> RoC_MasterMind: network-manager's pptp vpn plugin doesn't work?
[04:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> well, how about in gutsy?
[04:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> what the different it offers compare to ubuntu's pkg?
[04:38] <burner> [Hardy]TuTUXG: see kubuntu.org, it's on the front page i think
[04:39] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ok
[04:39] <RoC_MasterMind> no, and neither kvpnc.
[04:39] <RoC_MasterMind> No traffic passes.
[04:40] <burner> bummer, that worked in gutsy... things are installing, i'll be able to bughunt with you soon :)
[04:40] <RoC_MasterMind> worked at all, or worked with a static IP?
[04:41] <burner> worked at all
[04:41] <cooldevices> RoC_MasterMind: vpn with static ip requires network manager 0.7
[04:41] <burner> I have my ip set by the router based on my MAC address instead of by static ip
[04:41] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> burner, it says "in hardy just install kde4-core" but i guess it means hardy kubuntu?
[04:41] <RoC_MasterMind> what's the best way to get network manager 0.7?
[04:42] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> nvm, i will add the repo anyways
[04:42] <burner> [Hardy]TuTUXG: i don't get your question, but yeah, just install kde4-core
[04:42] <burner> no no
[04:42] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> no?
[04:42] <burner> kde4 packages are just in hardy
[04:42] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ok
[04:42] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> thx alot
[04:42] <cooldevices> RoC_MasterMind: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=4197818
[04:44] <cooldevices> but... isnt kvpnc support static ip with vpn?
[04:44] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> wat's new with nm 0.7?
[04:44] <RoC_MasterMind> don't think so.
[04:45] <RoC_MasterMind> I heard that, but when I try to dial up I get the same symptoms.
[04:45] <RoC_MasterMind> also, pptp goes 100% CPU with kvpnc
[04:45] <cooldevices> you may have a better luck with old-way of setting vpn
[04:46] <RoC_MasterMind> what's that?
[04:46] <cooldevices> editing configs, pptpconfig, etc
[04:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> burner, it removed my kdebase-bin-kde3
[04:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> will that break kde3?
[04:49]  * burner shrugs, maybe
[04:49] <burner> i don't use kde ;)
[04:49] <burner> #kubuntu maybe?
[04:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> um...
[04:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> nvm, i don't use kde neither ;P
[05:13] <syke> hi!
[05:14] <syke> I just updated to hardy, and everything is working great except my ndiswrapper
[05:14] <syke> it doesn't complain about loading, but the wireless doesn't work either
[05:14] <syke> was working great in gutsy just moments ago
[05:14] <burner_> any chance the card works without ndiswrapper?
[05:14] <syke> web search hasn't yielded much other than a suggestion to build ndiswrapper from scratch
[05:14] <syke> was wondering if there was a plan to update the ndiswrapper so it works OOTB
[05:15] <syke> burner: not decently, no
[05:15] <syke> unless b43 support wpa2 and 802.11g
[05:15] <syke> which it doesn't appear to
[05:15]  * burner_ is updating now to hardy and only on a desktop with no wireless... sorry i'm not much help
[05:15] <syke> the message boards also say that booting into 2.6.22 kernel fixes it
[05:15] <burner_> wpa2?  why not just use wpa or wep then?
[05:15] <syke> I'd be happy to test any fix to this issue
[05:16] <maccam94> syke: try reinstalling ndiswrapper?
[05:16] <maccam94> and reinstall the windows driver...
[05:16] <syke> burner: wep is crackable, we use wpa2 for some reason. but b43 and bcm43xx both don't play well with wpa
[05:16] <syke> (lots of invalid crypto errors in iwconfig)
[05:16] <syke> maccam94: that's my next step, but others in message baords said it doesn't make a difference
[05:17]  * burner_ runs an open network and thinks nothing of encryption
[05:17] <maccam94> ditto
[05:17] <maccam94> i'd worry if i lived in an apartment in a city
[05:17] <maccam94> but here in the suburbs...
[05:17] <syke> burner: I live in silicon valley where ppl jump onto open access points all the time to torrent god knows what
[05:18] <syke> yea ;)
[05:18] <syke> it looks like hardy's ndiswrapper is up to date..
[05:18] <syke> I'll try reisntalling the windows driver
[05:19] <DanaG> How can I prove the security of WPA2 to my parents?  My dad is a bit paranoid, because he (knows he) doesn't know anything about wireless security.
[05:20] <maccam94> syke: sudo rmmod ndiswrapper && sudo ndiswrapper -r drivername (i think)
[05:20] <maccam94> and then add it again
[05:20] <DanaG> Our passphrase is ************************* characters long, with words and underscores, and mixed case between (but not within) words, and two punctuation symbols.
[05:20] <maccam94> DanaG: what's being used now?
[05:20] <DanaG> WPA2.
[05:21] <DanaG> But he doesn't like me leaving the wireless on, so I can't use it.
[05:21] <DanaG> I usually use wired anyway, but sometimes I want to use two computers in my room at once (and I don't have enough cables or ports for both in my room.)
[05:21] <RoC_MasterMind> buy a switch
[05:22] <maccam94> http://www.wi-fi.org/knowledge_center/wpa2
[05:22] <syke> danag: unreasonable ppl generally can't be reasoned with ;)
[05:22] <syke> my dad used to also be ignorant about these things, unplugging the modem at night (and disrupting downloads, etc)
[05:23] <syke> my final response was "if you want to be ignorant, that's fine, but it's fairly irritating"
[05:23] <syke> he backed down shortly after ;)
[05:24] <DanaG> Well, at least he leaves stuff up.
[05:24] <DanaG> Wireless is more of a convenience than a need.
[05:24] <syke> true
[05:24] <syke> of course, every has computers these days
[05:24] <syke> everyone, rather
[05:27] <maccam94> DanaG: "How secure is Wi-Fi Protected Access? Wi-Fi Protected Access is a very strong wireless security enhancement. While no security solution can ever claim to be "absolutely secure", the protection that Wi-Fi Protected Access provides is significant. Many cryptographers are confident that Wi-Fi Protected Access addresses all the known attacks on WEP. It also adds strong user authentication, which was absent in WEP."
[05:34] <syke> yup, no dice
[05:34] <syke> reinstalling the driver doesn't help :( :( :(
[05:34] <syke> I'll try booting back into the old kernel and see what that gets me
[05:34] <syke> thanks for the help! :)
[05:36] <kavoor>  Hello, Is it true that Hardy will not feature a new theme and a new makeover is scheduled for Hardy +1 ??
[05:37] <dareii> anyone know how i can get my clock to show regular time instead of UTC
[05:50] <mEck0> Hi! I wonder if there is a app which works good with a Ipod Nano 3rd gen in 8.04?
[05:52] <burner_> mEck0: rhythmbox doesn't cut it?
[05:54] <mEck0> burner_, haven't tried any app in 8.04 yet. but some weeks ago I couldn't find any app which worked. and when I googled on it then, I realized that support for 3rd gen wasn't so good yet...
[05:55] <burner_> i'd try rhythmbox or banshee
[05:55] <burner_> better yet, i'd buy an mp3 player that's not all locked down ;)
[05:55] <dareii> what about exaile?
[05:58] <mEck0> dareii, haven't try. but will do that
[06:00] <dareii> exaile is best gnome media player for me - i don't like rythmbox
[06:02] <dareii> i can't my clock to show correct time
[06:02] <Lilacor> hello HH folks
[06:02] <dareii> it's showing utc instead of real time
[06:05] <DarkMageZ> mEck0, ipod support in most applications is dictated by libgpod. it'd be best to check the libgpod site to see if your ipod is supported
[06:05] <mEck0> DarkMageZ, aha, will do, thx
[06:08] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> kde 4 is fun1
[06:08] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> except it crashed on me when i try to change the fonts
[06:09] <mEck0> [Gutsy]TuTUXG, is it fully usable now? when I tried a beta of it, it wasn't possible to change properties for panel etc. does all these fundamental stuff works now?
[06:09] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> still not much stuff you can change as i can tell
[06:10] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> but i guess it's more stable than beta for sure
[06:10] <mEck0> oki, weird why they released it then :S I think it's better to move the deadline forward if isn't fully usable
[06:11] <DarkMageZ> mEck0, if you've ever used one of the alpha releases of vista? back when it was longhorn ッ that's kde4
[06:11] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> while it's usable
[06:11] <mEck0> oki, maybe I'll try it again
[06:11] <hydrogen> 4.0.2 has a lot of what you wiould expect
[06:11] <hydrogen> but it's not released yet
[06:11] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> just not customizable as gnome atm
[06:11] <mEck0> DarkMageZ, :D okay
[06:11] <hydrogen> wait for 4.0.2 :)
[06:11] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> ya, definitely got potentials
[06:12] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> if i am a mac lover, i could say they went to the right direction
[06:12] <mEck0> hydrogen, isn't released at all or is it available from a cvs/svn repo?
[06:12] <DarkMageZ> yeah. i'll admit there is potential. but seriously 4.0 should not have been called a release :P
[06:12] <mEck0> yeah, I saw that they have included some good features which mac os has
[06:12] <hydrogen> it's availible from svn
[06:13] <hydrogen> but you probably don't want to build it :)
[06:13] <hydrogen> 4.0 was completely usable for me
[06:13] <mEck0> hydrogen, hehe I don't think so, it's kind of a huge thing to build and fix all dependencies for :D
[06:13] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> gnome need to do some catch up i guess
[06:13] <hydrogen> what-will-be-4.1 is even more completely usable for me, but thats another story :)
[06:13] <mEck0> hydrogen, when will they release 4.02?
[06:14] <hydrogen> mEck0: sometime in march
[06:14] <hydrogen> early march I think
[06:14] <mEck0> [Gutsy]TuTUXG, I like gnome, though I think they need to work more with performance now. The system feels kind of slow sometimes. just take a thing like nautilus
[06:14] <mEck0> hydrogen, ok
[06:15] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> ya
[06:15] <hydrogen> mEck0: http://techbase.kde.org/index.php?title=Schedules/KDE4/4.0_Release_Schedule#Upcoming_Milestones
[06:15] <mEck0> hydrogen, I wonder, are the kde4 packages in the ubuntu repo up to date?
[06:15] <mEck0> hydrogen, thx
[06:15] <hydrogen> mEck0: they are of 4.0.1
[06:15] <mEck0> ok, good
[06:15] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> they are just a little bit afraid to change, imo
[06:15] <mEck0> you mean gnome ?
[06:15] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> ya
[06:15] <mEck0> can be so yeah
[06:16] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> they should introduce some new stuff to take place of the old ones
[06:16] <mEck0> [Gutsy]TuTUXG, yeah indeed
[06:17] <mEck0> which prog. language is most of gnome written in?
[06:17] <mEck0> c/c++?
[06:17] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> probly
[06:17] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> and python?
[06:17] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> more python would be nice i guess
[06:17] <DarkMageZ> c & python.
[06:17] <mEck0> DarkMageZ, okok
[06:18] <hydrogen> gnome is mostly written in c
[06:18] <mEck0> would be very funny to contribute with programming, though I have a lot of stuff to do now :(
[06:18] <hydrogen> and its really ugly because of it
[06:18] <mEck0> :D
[06:18] <hydrogen> looking at gnome code is asking for a migrane
[06:18] <mEck0> :/
[06:18] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> hydrogen, hahaha
[06:18] <hydrogen> most ubuntu programs are written in python, using the gtk bindings
[06:18] <mEck0> are they so poorly written?
[06:19] <DarkMageZ> gnome sucks anyway & gtk is an ugly pos...
[06:19] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> and that's y mr.linus doesnt like it
[06:20] <hydrogen> mEck0: not so much that as gtk has just grown in a whole lot of different directions by a whole lot of different people over a long period of time
[06:20] <hydrogen> gnome is kind of pushing more to using mono/c# from what I've read
[06:20] <hydrogen> which should be better in the long run..
[06:20] <mEck0> oki, yeah could be
[06:20] <DarkMageZ> that's because of novell's twisted medeling...
[06:20] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> y c# is better in the long run?
[06:21] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> more support?
[06:21] <DarkMageZ> i think gnome/gtk needs complete rewrite to compete with kde4
[06:21] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> instead of trying to fix stuff
[06:22] <hydrogen> c# is a much nicer language to develop in than c (in my opinion)
[06:23] <mEck0> hydrogen, haven't tried C#, is it very similar to C? like C++ is similar to C since it's developed from C.
[06:24] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> except c# is developed by ms
[06:24] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> c# is just a ripoff of java by ms
[06:24] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> imo
[06:24] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> and now they have j#
[06:24] <mEck0> [Gutsy]TuTUXG, ok, but if you develop something with mono, does it work on any platform (in theory)?
[06:24] <DarkMageZ> cept c# performs much faster than java.
[06:24] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> mEck0, yes i does
[06:25] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> it*
[06:25] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> ya, java is slow
[06:25] <mEck0> [Gutsy]TuTUXG, ok, then it should be a competent competitor to java
[06:26] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> mEck0, if ms wants it to be
[06:26] <mEck0> ok
[06:28] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> no offense to c#, i just think if c/c++ can be more standardize, it's still a nice language
[06:30] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> mEck0, from wikipedia: The reference .NET Microsoft implementation is only available on Windows, and its ties to this operating system is seen by some as a drawback[16][17]. There are other implementations on the works for running C# programs on Windows, Linux, BSD or Mac OS X, but they are not complete yet: Mono[18] and DotGNU[19]. In November of 2002 Microsoft released a 1.0 CLI implementation that worked on Free BSD and Ma
[06:30] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> c OS X 10.2, but the next versions were only made available on Windows.
[06:31] <mEck0> [Gutsy]TuTUXG, oki
[06:48] <cwillu> is there a way to configure dpkg to always run nice'd?
[07:00] <rohan> anyone here using hardy alpha 5 already?
[07:00] <rohan> i just wanted to check whether acer-acpi is included now in hardy by default
[07:02] <Assid> heya
[07:05] <rohan> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+bug/190677 ---> basically i want to check if this bug is solved in hardy alpha 5
[07:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190677 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "Backport acer-wmi to hardy 2.6.24 kernel" [Low,Fix committed]
[07:08] <Assid> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/amsn/+bug/190531
[07:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190531 in amsn "amsn crashes X when you try to change display picture with compiz enabled" [Undecided,New]
[07:08] <Assid> can someone confirm this
[07:15] <rohan> will ubuntu hardy have firefox 3 final?
[07:18] <Hewus> rohan: alpha 5 has beta 3, so I assume the plan is for release to have firefox 3 final
[07:19] <Andre_Gondim> where are the tab completation in Alpha 5?
[07:22] <Andre_Gondim> when I am in terminal the completation tab does not work so well
[07:24] <rohan> Hewus: lets hope ff3 final is out by that time :
[07:24] <rohan> )
[07:30] <Assid> err.. system monitor is a bit  psycho
[07:31] <Assid> the speed its reporting and the speed im getting while downloading are different
[07:44] <DarkMageZ> Assid, how different?
[07:44] <Assid> double the speeds
[07:44] <Assid> FATAL: Error inserting ds1621 (/lib/modules/2.6.24-8-generic/kernel/drivers/hwmon/ds1621.ko): Unknown symbol in module, or unknown parameter (see dmesg)
[07:44] <Assid> err?
[07:45] <DarkMageZ> hmm... 2x in overheads is seriously not right.
[07:45] <DarkMageZ> unless your download manager fails at design.
[07:46] <Assid> i think i knoiw why.. i have vbox using bridging to get it on the lan
[07:46] <Assid> that could be a factor
[07:47] <DarkMageZ> you're monitoring on the vbox or on your machine?
[07:47] <Assid> on the machine
[07:47] <DarkMageZ> then no, bridging is no excuse
[07:47] <Assid> hrmm trying to think
[07:48] <DarkMageZ> the only way that could work is if you were monitoring on the vbox and it was adding both interfaces together in the count ッ
[07:48] <Assid> vbox isnt on
[07:48] <Assid> or rather wasnt on while the dl took place
[07:50] <DarkMageZ> i'm having problems thinking of a good reason for it to be counting 2x. without it being some sort of software bug or user error...
[07:53] <Assid> used to work fine before.. dont remember when it started showing this
[07:53] <Assid> and i know my cap. there no way i can get 2x the speed
[07:54] <Assid> 0.0.0.0         192.168.0.1     0.0.0.0         UG    100    0        0 br0
[07:54] <Assid> 0.0.0.0         192.168.0.1     0.0.0.0         UG    100    0        0 eth0
[07:54] <Assid> there you go..
[07:54] <Assid> look like because it goes through br0 first and then eth0 .. it doubles it
[07:54] <DarkMageZ> it's counting both interfaces. poor design.
[07:54] <Assid> okay i may get cut off.. trying google earth.. known to crash with compiz
[07:55] <Assid> i didnt make it :(
[07:57] <DarkMageZ> who was accusing you of :P
[07:59] <Assid> one more thing
[08:00] <Assid> network monitor / netspeed applet
[08:00] <Assid> it doesnt let me change the device
[08:01] <Assid> waitgot that to work
[09:40] <AnRkey> when is alpha 5 gonna be out?
[09:41] <rsk> already out afaik
[09:43] <AnRkey> ok shweet thanks
[09:45] <AnRkey> I wanna start testing again
[09:45] <AnRkey> later
[10:10] <ethana2> hey, does alpha5 pack any new art?
[10:12] <rsk> no
[10:12] <rsk> ethana2: there will be no new theme for 8.04
[10:13] <gaminggeek> :(
[10:13] <gaminggeek> not even a new bg?
[10:13] <rsk> dont know about that
[10:14] <gaminggeek> I dont keep the default look of ubuntu anyway
[10:14] <gaminggeek> I wish ubuntu had a better look :|
[10:14] <ethana2> who does?
[10:14] <gaminggeek> infact I would like it better if they put in the default gnome look
[10:15] <gaminggeek> I mean thats what I change it to :)
[10:15] <gaminggeek> gnome icon theme
[10:15] <gaminggeek> and the gummy clearlooks
[10:15] <ethana2> they should ship with the linux mint, ubuntu studio, and fedora themes
[10:15] <ethana2> with their own default
[10:15] <ethana2> they're good themes
[10:15] <gaminggeek> linux mint looks pretty nifty
[10:15] <ethana2> and they already exist
[10:15] <ethana2> ;)
[10:17] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> ethana2, no new theme? seriously?
[10:17] <rsk> srsly
[10:18] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> well at least there is on new wp as i can tell
[10:40] <Sebastian> Is there a place to report successfull installs of Hardy Alpha 5?
[10:53] <bullgard4> Is the following statement true: "/proc/acpi  is being removed soon - it's  considered deprecated in 2.6.24."?
[10:56] <rsk> if you have to ask if it's true
[10:56] <rsk> then it's probably not
[11:00] <void^> a lot of things including /proc/acpi/* stuff is being moved to sysfs, but i'm pretty sure /proc/acpi will still be (optionally) available for a long time
[11:04] <P2502> omg shift+insert now work in terminal, linux rules
[11:05] <P2502> however keyb layout switching is not
[11:07] <h3sp4wn_> gaminggeek: The ubuntu studio look is usable did you look at that ? (I do admit the rest are not particularly nice(
[11:14] <gold44> alpha5
[11:19] <gaminggeek> h3sp4wn_: I dont want to change distro just because of the theme :)
[11:19] <gaminggeek> ubuntu studio has a nice theme though but I dont see what it does better than stock ubuntu for what I want
[11:22] <gold44> gaminggeek: me2
[11:26] <h3sp4wn_> gaminggeek: Me neither I am not that bothered (But noticed the ubuntustudio theme is in the repos)
[11:30] <gaminggeek> if I was doing audio stuff ubuntu studio would be nice because IIRC it has a tickless kernel  and all that nice stuff
[11:30] <gaminggeek> but I do graphics stuff and ubuntu does that just fine
[11:32] <gold44> h3sp4wn_: which theme should i get with apt-get?
[11:32]  * heret1c arrives
[11:33] <h3sp4wn_> gold44: ubuntustudio0theme
[11:33] <h3sp4wn_> gold44: ubuntustudio-theme
[11:34] <gold44> how about ubuntustudio-look?
[11:34] <h3sp4wn_> get that as well - there is one bit you don't get with the first package
[11:35] <gold44> actually u-look includes u-theme
[11:35] <gold44> nee reboot
[11:35] <h3sp4wn_> or you could get --without-recommends ubuntustudio-default-settings
[11:36] <gaminggeek> the appearnces takes longer than it should to start for me :/
[11:37] <gaminggeek> hmm
[11:38] <gaminggeek> I dont know if I like the ubuntu studio theme acctually
[11:38] <gaminggeek> its better than the default ubuntu one but it looks a little odd with windows with alot of white like banshee and pidgin
[11:39] <h3sp4wn_> have you got a black taskbar and whatever they call the top one
[11:39] <h3sp4wn_> (If they are still white its not properly installed)
[11:39] <gaminggeek> yep
[11:40] <gold44> da sound is diff
[11:40] <gold44> i got an elephant skin backg
[11:41] <gaminggeek> in hardy?
[11:41] <gold44> maybe is elephant's ass
[11:41] <gold44> i u-studio theme
[11:41] <gold44> i just apt-get
[11:41] <h3sp4wn_> There is a choice of wallpapers if that is what you mean
[11:42] <gold44> i choose elephant's ass
[11:43] <gold44> that brown piece of skin, or maybe dried dirt , or whatever it is, it look like elephat's ass
[11:44] <gold44> i m setting non-internet distro. i choose debian. 3 dvd iso + 1 dvd iso update
[11:47] <h3sp4wn_> Wise choice
[11:51] <gold44> haha
[11:52] <gold44> wget 1 dvd took 8 houts
[11:52] <nomasteryoda> its elephant in hardy
[11:52] <nomasteryoda> ouch
[11:52] <gold44> hm....4*8=32 =) for those who needs math lesson
[11:53] <gold44> my god. 1.5 days
[11:58] <nomasteryoda> so... 1.5*4= 6 days
[11:59] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> gold44, u can download them at the same time
[11:59] <nomasteryoda> bitorrent would be faster
[11:59] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> also bittorrent
[12:00] <nomasteryoda> since most sites have limited upload
[12:00] <gold44> no. 4 dvd, 8 hr each
[12:00] <rsk> every site has limited upload
[12:00] <gold44> nomasteryoda:
[12:01] <rsk> it's pure logic
[12:01] <rsk> :)
[12:01] <gold44> [Gutsy]TuTUXG: the server might only let me download one at a time.
[12:01] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> gold44, i don't think they have only one server
[12:01] <nomasteryoda> ah ok
[12:01] <gold44> one socket
[12:01] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> and have u tried to dl them together?
[12:02] <gold44> i m getting all from ome server
[12:02] <nomasteryoda> ya you can get from like ftp://ftp.oregonstate.edu/pub i believe
[12:02] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> gold44, and u have to do that becuz?
[12:02] <P2502> AMD opened specs for 3D modes of videocards... additionaly to general specs released earlier... now this is becoming interesting
[12:02] <gold44> no i did not try that
[12:02] <nomasteryoda> that's the beauty of mirrors
[12:03] <gold44> becuz, i don't care. no in rushy
[12:06] <gold44> [Gutsy]TuTUXG: lots of free website, where u get freebies, dont let u, download 2 files at once.  they sort of train me to think this way.
[12:07] <h3sp4wn_> As long as the connection is maxed out why does it matter
[12:07] <gold44> if i start to download 4 dvd iso the same time, it will total up to 1.5 days anway
[12:07] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> gold44, i know what u saying but it wont hurt to give it a try
[12:07] <h3sp4wn_> If it isn't then use another mirror
[12:07] <gold44> [Gutsy]TuTUXG: i am almost done anyway.
[12:07] <[Gutsy]TuTUXG> and u can choose 1. 4 different severs 2, bittorrent
[12:09] <gold44> what prevented me to try first place was, i never read the 'man screen'.  i only use one screen-mount a time.
[12:09] <h3sp4wn_> c-a c
[12:09] <h3sp4wn_> c-a w and c-a #
[12:09] <gold44> yeah, brings back memory haha
[12:10] <h3sp4wn_> (where # is a number) of the screen listd by c-a w
[12:11] <gold44> 'c-a w' new window?
[12:11]  * gold44 read man screen
[12:11] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: i just use   c-a n    c-a w
[12:11] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: i just use   c-a n    c-a p  even
[12:12] <gold44> when i "screen -r" which screen will i be at? or does it matter?
[12:12] <gold44> i click X to close my ssh windows
[12:12] <h3sp4wn_> enyc: I have for the most part have stuff in the same place
[12:13] <h3sp4wn_> so don't bother with listing them first
[12:13] <enyc> h3sp4wn_:  make sense
[12:13] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: i wonder how easy it would be to arrange for things like F1 F2 F3 etc. to be equivalent to c-a 0 c-a 1 c-a 2  ;-)....
[12:14] <h3sp4wn_> I go thru phases of using split etc
[12:14] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: (assuming xterm -> screen)
[12:15] <h3sp4wn_> Its hard enough to just get a status bar permenant (so no need for c-a w) I dunno
[12:15] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: darn
[12:15] <gold44> h3sp4wn_: there's a split in vim
[12:16] <h3sp4wn_> gold44: but why use that instead of screen's ? or does it provide a verticle split also ?
[12:16] <gold44> how to find out how-many screens i created? and how to tell which screen i a m at?
[12:16] <enyc> gold44: ctrl-a then w
[12:16] <enyc> gold44: you will see howe many of them (numbered)
[12:17] <enyc> gold44: you will see the * on the screen you are on
[12:17] <gold44> h3sp4wn_: i am just saying, vim has a split.  no vertical split in vim
[12:17] <h3sp4wn_> you can rename them with ctrl-a A
[12:17] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: heres what id really like to know ;-) -- how do I connect up multiple connections to the same screen mux?
[12:17] <h3sp4wn_> enyc: screen 0x
[12:17] <gold44> enyc: ah... thx
[12:18] <h3sp4wn_> screeb 0x
[12:18] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: like a "shared" session within the same conneciton
[12:18] <h3sp4wn_> screen -x
[12:18] <h3sp4wn_> probably that is not what you want though because they are not independant
[12:19] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: thats interesting i have them on diffecent window sizes which is interesting...
[12:19] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: like it resizes them depending whats connected etc.
[12:20] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: hey i ve got in the other way round now so its small window on 1 etc... blah... i get it ;-)
[12:20] <h3sp4wn_> Did you read the bit about multiuser sessions ?
[12:20] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: i only want it on 1 user
[12:20] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: which is fine for me
[12:20] <h3sp4wn_> I think with that you should be able to use it independant
[12:21] <h3sp4wn_> like one is connected to screen 2 - the other is on screen 1
[12:21] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: ok now I want to know..... ;-)  is it possible for me to setup screen -x on a certain window with TERM=wy60 on a /dev/ttyS device ;-)
[12:21] <gold44> hey.... i have vim Q.  :!pstree  will run the command. is there a way to get a terminal within vim? in mc, you can control-o, to get terminal
[12:21] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: i can see any of the windows on either connection to screen
[12:21] <h3sp4wn_> enyc: but changing one changes the other right ?:
[12:21] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: no i can flip windows independantly
[12:22] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: so ctrl
[12:22] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: so ctrl-a (number) is on per-instance
[12:22] <enyc> h3sp4wn_: i *can* have them both on the same or not etc.
[12:22] <h3sp4wn_> Ah that doesn't matter then its not something I use alot
[12:23] <h3sp4wn_> If I need to show someone something then I use gems
[12:25] <heret1c> yo doc.
[12:25]  * heret1c has got a new hd, which doesn't show up in /gev
[12:26] <heret1c> dev eben.
[12:26] <heret1c> ah. bbl
[12:26] <gold44> it will be nice if first screen is #1 instead of #0.  zero is all the way next to the 9-key
[12:27] <Dr_Willis> name the forst screen ~ :)
[12:27] <gold44> i keep have to switch between 1 and 0 .  1 and 2 will be easy to switch.  Dr_Willis ? ~ ??? let me try
[12:28] <Dr_Willis> i got no idwea what youa re even doing gold44  :)
[12:28] <gold44> oh... but i have to name it every time
[12:28] <gold44> gotcha
[12:30] <gold44> since ppl are so hot on screen topic.  how to set color for screen#1 green and screen#2 blue?
[12:31] <Dr_Willis> Hmm. I would say use of the ansi color codes. and  perhaps some fancy bash prompts
[12:33] <h3sp4wn_> Look at any complicated screenrc online
[12:33]  * gold44 reading man page
[12:33] <h3sp4wn_> and spend ages decyphering it bit by bit
[12:33] <h3sp4wn_> The nethack error messages are better
[12:34] <cwillu> wine working yet?
[12:35] <enyc> cwillu: was it not workingL
[12:35] <cwillu> segfaults on mine
[12:35] <cwillu> some people were saying the same yesterday
[12:36] <Dr_Willis> watching my updates scroll by.. :)
[12:36] <Dr_Willis> How can this thing update xchat,, while im running xchat anyway...
[12:36] <Dr_Willis> I always found that..  amazing. :)
[12:36] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, files aren't locked;  it'll be the new version when you restart it
[12:37] <h3sp4wn_> you can see I think with lsof
[12:37] <h3sp4wn_> kde doesn't like being updated while its running
[12:37] <Dr_Willis> cwillu,  yea guess so.   it just seems that with some 'other'os's out there. Ya have to shut down everything and stand on your head when yoyu update. :)
[12:38] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, there's ways around that too :p
[12:40] <cwillu> so, wine works on some people's machines?
[12:45] <P2502> try wine 0.9.56
[12:45] <cwillu> P2502, aka, the wine is hardy is currently broken?
[12:45] <P2502> 0.9.55 was broken for everyone
[12:46] <cwillu> P2502, seg fault broken?
[12:46] <P2502> yes
[12:46] <cwillu> okay, thx
[12:51] <P2502> i'll wait for 0.9.56 in repo
[12:53] <cwillu> anyone know of a config option'ish thing to make dpkg always run niced?
[12:56] <Dr_Willis>  wine Death\ Worm\ v1.4.exe
[12:56] <Dr_Willis> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[12:56] <Dr_Willis> :(
[12:56] <Dr_Willis> hehheh..
[12:57] <cwillu> Dr_Willis, I just downloaded  wget http://wine.budgetdedicated.com/archive/ubuntu/gutsy/wine_0.9.55~winehq0~ubuntu~7.10-1_i386.deb
[12:57] <cwillu> works fine
[12:58] <Dr_Willis> wonder what happened with the one in the repos then.
[13:02] <heret1c> cwillu> ran AIDA from a system rescue cd - wouldn't detect the hd.
[13:02] <cwillu> !package wine
[13:02] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about package wine - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[13:02] <cwillu> what's the syntax for that?
[13:03] <Dr_Willis> !info wine
[13:03] <ubotu> wine (source: wine): Microsoft Windows Compatibility Layer (Binary Emulator and Library). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.55-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 34871 kB, installed size 108000 kB
[13:03] <cwillu> heret1c, you didn't do something silly like disabling the ide controller in the bios did you? :p
[13:03] <cwillu> ah, thx
[13:04] <heret1c> >msg cwillu can't change BIOS - haven'tgot pwd.
[13:04] <heret1c> gr.
[13:04] <cwillu> :p
[13:05] <heret1c> must afk
[13:05] <cwillu> what mobo do you have?
[13:05] <P2502> mmm another os for 16 mb of ram and Pentium 1 http://www.thinstation.net/ and it is linux (1st one is minix3, but its not linux)
[13:05] <P2502> someone asked
[13:07] <Dr_Willis> Puppylinux is good for low end machines.
[13:07] <Dr_Willis> and/or DSL
[13:07] <s0u][ight> hello is the alpha 5 released?
[13:09] <s0u][ight> noone?
[13:09] <s0u][ight> :|
[13:10] <P2502> Puppy Linux has been run in a PC-100 Mhz 32 MB RAM machine with hard disk
[13:10] <P2502> dosnet count
[13:10] <P2502> question was about 16 mb of ram
[13:11] <P2502> "Memory requirement is at least 64 MB, which can be aided by a swap partition in hard disk if RAM is lacking."
[13:12] <P2502> man i wonder when epic released unreal tournament 3 for linux
[13:12] <s0u][ight> is the new hardy alpha 5 released?
[13:12] <P2502> yes
[13:13] <s0u][ight> where can i find info about it?
[13:14] <P2502> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha5
[13:14] <s0u][ight> tnx
[13:16] <s0u][ight> wow murat gunes it sounds like a turkish name :D
[13:16] <s0u][ight> can i contact those men from the credits thing?
[13:18] <afflux> s0u][ight: you can, but depending on what you want, they're probably the wrong people to contact
[13:18] <s0u][ight> hehe ur right but it's nice to know that people from different nationalities work on the same project ;]
[13:18] <afflux> yes, that's right
[13:19] <s0u][ight> i got a question is that b43 interface name issue fixed?
[13:19] <h3sp4wn_> what exactly is the issue
[13:19] <h3sp4wn_> I would guess if there is an issue its not with b43
[13:20] <s0u][ight> the interface name is weird
[13:20] <s0u][ight> i got for the same interface 2 names
[13:20] <s0u][ight> one is eth1
[13:20] <s0u][ight> and the other is wlan0_rename
[13:20] <h3sp4wn_> no wmaster0 ?
[13:20] <s0u][ight> no wlan0_rename
[13:21] <h3sp4wn_> usually if you have wlan0 you have with it wmaster0
[13:21] <s0u][ight> and i can connect to networks with it :s
[13:21] <h3sp4wn_> could be udev though that is breaking it
[13:21] <s0u][ight> i normally have eth1
[13:22] <h3sp4wn_> afaik all mac80211 drivers should be as i said above
[13:23] <h3sp4wn_> the wmaster is for handling multi ssid
[13:24] <h3sp4wn_> yeah my laptop has wlan0 + wmaster0 (and another ralink device I had also did)
[13:25] <h3sp4wn_> this is intel 4965 (never used it yet)
[13:25] <P2502> !bug 184976
[13:25] <afflux> will intrepid ibex' short name be intrepid or ibex?
[13:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 184976 in ubuntu "Hardy: b43 driver not working (Upgrade from Gutsy)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184976
[13:29] <sn0> a whopping 35K from cdimage today :) must be busy
[13:30] <P2502> try spreader.yandex.net
[13:34] <sn0> n1 P2502 , 10x quicker
[13:37] <Assid> hey
[13:37] <Assid> my systems acting realllly strange
[13:37] <Assid> for some reason.. the drives dont come on the desktop anymore
[13:37] <Assid> even like my usb storage etc
[13:46] <Assid> err whats the keyboard shortcut for pasting in terminal ?
[13:46] <sn0> ctrl+v / shift + insert
[13:46] <sn0> hardly a hardy question though Assid
[13:47] <Assid> hrmm
[13:47] <heret1c> h'm- my new hd doesn't register in /dev. may the controller be broken?
[13:47] <Assid> yeah i know.. my keyboards changed
[13:47] <sn0> please ask support questions in #ubuntu , this channel is for hardy.
[13:48] <Assid> trying to figure out what the old one was.. cause now i gotta see what im pressing till i get used to it
[13:48] <heret1c> sn0> hd went bing testing hardy alpha 4.
[13:48] <sn0> heret1c alpha 5 is out, could you try that please and see what happens?
[13:48] <Assid> err.. i run hardy.. just forgot what it was.. you know when you do something soo much that you have no idea what exactly you you do anymore
[13:48] <sn0> all the time Assid :)
[13:49] <Assid> hence the question
[13:49] <heret1c> sn0> bit tricky, not having a hd to put the iso on... 8)
[13:49] <Assid> try changing the keyboard to something where the insert key is in the same line as the Function keys all of a sudden
[13:49] <Assid> okay as of hardy issue.. my desktop doesnt show any of the mounts anymore
[13:49] <heret1c> bbl
[13:49] <scizzo-> Assid: runing KDE or GNOME version?
[13:50] <Assid> gnome
[13:50] <scizzo-> Assid: and the devices are mounted in df -h?
[13:50] <Assid> yeah i just accessed it from nauutilis
[13:50] <scizzo-> Assid: and they are showing in Nautilus normally?
[13:50] <Assid> yep
[13:50] <Assid> odd eh
[13:50] <Assid> was working till this morning.
[13:50] <scizzo-> Assid: what happens if you restart nautilus?
[13:51] <Assid> nothing.. same  its there in nautilis
[13:51] <scizzo-> Assid: that is killing the process running and restart it
[13:51] <scizzo-> Assid: and you are sure you haven't told nautilus not to show in the desktop?
[13:51] <Assid> nope
[13:52] <Assid> as a matter of fact.. right now when i booted.. i saw nautilis going all wonky on me
[13:52] <scizzo-> Assid: you have tried killing it and start it again?
[13:52] <Assid> hold.. let me explain
[13:52] <scizzo-> Assid: tried with a different user?
[13:52] <scizzo-> Assid: you see there is a lot to test.. ;)
[13:52] <Assid> when it starts,  i can see nautilis loading up (and showing in the avant dock). and trust me it went nuts opening a new one closing one. opening closing.. etc
[13:53] <Assid> finally i geta  desktop, and i see nothing
[13:53] <Assid> by which i mean no mounts
[13:53] <scizzo-> avant *twiches*
[13:53] <Assid> hehe
[13:53] <scizzo-> well can you test to start it normally without avant with a different user?
[13:54] <Assid> will be doing that.. first im trying to figure out if one of my debian boxes were compromised or what
[13:54] <Assid> i see alot of transfer in there
[13:54] <scizzo-> Assid: download iftop
[13:54] <scizzo-> Assid: check in /var/log/auth.log to see success logins
[13:55] <scizzo-> Assid: sorry you probably know all of it already
[13:55] <Paladine> I have come across a major issue you guys might be interested in
[13:55] <Assid> yeah.. iftop no.. didnt
[13:55] <Paladine> I understand hardy is planned to be released with pulseaudio as the default sound daemon?
[13:55] <scizzo-> Assid: iftop is mostly to see the transferrate and so on from the devices (eth0 etc)
[13:56] <Assid> aah.. i used to use iptraf
[13:56] <scizzo-> Paladine: seems like it yes
[13:56] <scizzo-> Paladine: why?
[13:56] <Assid> thing is.. i need to check my logs what went out so much
[13:56] <Paladine> well you might be interested to know that I can't get a single softphone to work with pulseaudio running despite using the workarounds in asound.conf
[13:56] <Paladine> I have tried kphone, ekiga and twinkle
[13:57] <scizzo-> Paladine: hmm sound wise...you are sure that you are using a duplex soundcard also?
[13:57] <Assid> okay well it definitely wasnt emails.. so no spammer attack
[13:57] <Paladine> yes they work fine with pulseaudio not running
[13:57] <scizzo-> Paladine: I think there is still problems with sound using 2 channels if the soundcard does not support it or something
[13:57] <Assid> pulseaudio + vlc = bad idea
[13:58] <h3sp4wn_> with pulseaudio running .asoundrc is not used
[13:58] <h3sp4wn_> as far as I can see
[13:59] <scizzo-> Paladine: since I have a old Live card set in my machine I have to disable the sound in the bios to actually getting it to work properly in Linux overall
[13:59] <scizzo-> Paladine: so it all depends on the channels AFAIK
[14:00] <Paladine> I am using a USB mic in my webcam
[14:00] <Assid> compiz + kopete = bye bye X
[14:00] <Paladine> works fine with pulseaudio disabled
[14:00] <Paladine> but none of the softphones can access the device with pulse running
[14:00] <scizzo-> Paladine: sounds like another soundserver is running
[14:00] <scizzo-> Paladine: to be honest
[14:00] <scizzo-> Paladine: ps -ef | grep asound
[14:01] <scizzo-> Paladine: if asound is running at the same time as pulseaudio that might be the cause of the problem
[14:01] <Paladine> sec have to restart pulse
[14:01] <scizzo-> Paladine: since they are 2 different sound servers
[14:02] <scizzo-> hmmmm I might be wrong here
[14:02] <h3sp4wn_> what is asound ?
[14:02] <h3sp4wn_> esd is really pulse emulating esd
[14:02] <scizzo-> h3sp4wn_: yeah
[14:02] <scizzo-> h3sp4wn_: like I said I might be wrong
[14:03] <h3sp4wn_> I really think using pulse audio is the wrong way to go about things anyway
[14:03] <Paladine> ps -ef | grep asound returns nothing at all
[14:03] <scizzo-> Paladine: yeah I know
[14:03] <h3sp4wn_> oss4 uses vmix and its kernel based and works really well
[14:03] <scizzo-> Paladine: what kind of soundcard do you have?
[14:04] <Paladine> I am using 2 cards
[14:04] <scizzo-> Paladine: whot?
[14:04] <Paladine> one for output and one for input
[14:04] <Paladine> sec
[14:04] <scizzo-> ummm then that is beyond me
[14:04] <Paladine> I will pastebin sec
[14:04] <scizzo-> 2 different cards sounds.....ummm strange
[14:05] <h3sp4wn_> My usb audio appears as 2 cards to the os
[14:05] <Paladine> http://www.pastebin.ca/915067
[14:05] <scizzo-> h3sp4wn_: haven't checked much with pulseaudio only thing I know is about the channels that cards need to support for multiple sounds or something like that
[14:05] <Paladine> ignore 3 it is a dummy
[14:06] <Paladine> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/25406
[14:06] <Paladine> you can find my default.pa and asound.conf in that launchpad answers thread
[14:06] <Assid> okay  i need help finding out what went out
[14:06] <h3sp4wn_> scizzo-: I don't know enough about it either - All i know is oss gives less hassle most of the time for anything non standard
[14:06] <scizzo-> h3sp4wn_: true
[14:07] <scizzo-> h3sp4wn_: alsa has worked good though
[14:07] <scizzo-> h3sp4wn_: but not sure how pulseaudio works towards alsa really
[14:07] <h3sp4wn_> dmix always gave poor quality output
[14:08] <scizzo-> Paladine: ummmm.....well not really 100% sure about how it all works here.....however I would maybe try to only use one source for doing in/out sound to see if that actually works
[14:08] <scizzo-> Assid: hard to know really.......syslog might have some info or messages?
[14:08] <Paladine> scizzo, it isn't possible to do one source for in/out my webcam has no speakers and my main sound card has no mic hehe
[14:08] <h3sp4wn_> but just adding more and more layers of stuff seems stupid to me
[14:08] <Assid> from what i "can" see.. its uploaded via http
[14:09] <Assid> my personal bandwith chart for http transfer is empty
[14:09] <Assid> dont know if its cause of the software going nuts.. or what
[14:09] <Paladine> scizzo, most people use the USB mic on their webcam I expect for VOIP
[14:10] <Paladine> those that are not using a VOIP phone
[14:12] <P2502> any reason for iftop to not work? its all zeroes here
[14:13] <scizzo-> Paladine: I am mostly interested if the selftest in ekiga or something like that goes through without problems using only one source...however IIRC ekiga should recognize 2 sources.....
[14:13] <Paladine> there is only 1 source
[14:13] <scizzo-> P2502: looking at the right device?
[14:14] <Paladine> source = input, I only have 1 input defined
[14:14] <Paladine> I have 2 cards defined, only one is source
[14:14] <P2502> scizzo-: ok it works with ppp0 but not with eth0 (which is ethernet card connected to ppp0 adsl modem)
[14:16] <scizzo-> Paladine: well the question is really if you hear anything or you can't say anything with the devices you have added....?
[14:16] <Paladine> no the software crashes as soon as it attempts to access the device
[14:16] <Paladine> whether in test mode or on an incoming call
[14:17] <Paladine> sec I am trying something with my default.pa
[14:17] <scizzo-> P2502: I am not really a expert of the iftop program....I only knows it is good to check what is going on
[14:17] <scizzo-> Paladine: hmmm
[14:17]  * Assid cant find it
[14:20] <P2502> i usually use netstat -punta to see what is connected
[14:20] <martijn81> where is alpha5?
[14:20] <h3sp4wn_> Would anyone say that Terminal (the link should link to the x-terminal-emulator alternative ?)
[14:21] <P2502> martijn81: where it should be
[14:21] <martijn81> P2502: it's not on the front page of kubuntu.org
[14:21] <mphill> www.ubuntu.com/testing/
[14:21] <P2502> martijn81: alphas not go to front page
[14:22] <scizzo-> martijn81: probably has not been fixed for kubuntu just yet....
[14:22] <jpatrick> P2502: they do
[14:22] <mphill> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/hardy/alpha-5/
[14:22] <martijn81> got it already, thanks guys :)
[14:23] <mphill> anyone know if automatix releases the source?
[14:24] <P2502> how to make monday 1st day of the week in gnome applet?
[14:24] <scizzo-> mphill: isnt medibuntu the new way to use for those things?
[14:25] <mphill> is that canonical sponsored?
[14:25] <P2502> and how to use local time? in the past i edited rcS file, but not i'm not sure gnome obey it
[14:25] <scizzo-> mphill: http://www.medibuntu.org/
[14:25] <P2502> its just uses UTC no metter what
[14:27] <mphill> scizzo-: thanks.
[14:31] <P2502> i wonder why PCLinuxOS always on 1st place on distrowatch.com
[14:32] <mphill> they cheat
[14:32] <mphill> in my opinion
[14:32] <h3sp4wn_> popular with people who change every 5 mins ?
[14:33] <mphill> they are never ranked on any independent polls
[14:34] <h3sp4wn_> they are pretty new user friendly
[14:34] <Paladine> I know no-one who uses PCLinuxOS
[14:35] <mphill> they are dropping fast on distrowatch too
[14:35] <Paladine> although I have to say, if someone told me they used it I would probably remove them from my roladex
[14:35] <mphill> which leads me to believe they stopped cheating
[14:35] <mphill> even if you go to their channel there are like 40 people
[14:36] <mphill> oh sorry, 33
[14:36] <mphill> including me!
[14:36] <P2502> lol
[14:36] <mphill> #ubuntu has over 1000 everyday!
[14:36] <mphill> debian has like 700 usually
[14:36] <h3sp4wn_> its a much more useful livd cd
[14:37] <Paladine> yeah but debian users are all called sid and I have heard they can be a little unstable ;)
[14:37] <mphill> i don't think thats an argument for their rank on distrowatch though
[14:37] <P2502> i dont like that openoffice is included in ubuntu livecd, waste
[14:37] <P2502> of space
[14:37] <mphill> P2502: that put all the fucking windows apps on too
[14:38] <mphill> talk about a disservice
[14:38] <h3sp4wn_> People mostly install from the alternative cd anyway though right ?
[14:39] <mphill> i don't think so
[14:39] <mphill> the default option is to get the live cd, so i think most regular users get that
[14:39] <P2502> xubuntu dont have openoffice, it have abiword and gnumeric
[14:39] <h3sp4wn_> hmmm when it was called the install cd I guess more people used it
[14:40] <h3sp4wn_> But xubuntu has to fit on a 640mb cd
[14:40] <mphill> people bitch about linux when the installer is not a  GUI, but for the record windows XP has that nasty blue installer they have had since windows 3.0
[14:40] <h3sp4wn_> thats only the first bit
[14:40] <mphill> still
[14:40] <h3sp4wn_> dunno about the vista installer
[14:41] <mphill> h3sp4wn_: its a full GUI
[14:41] <P2502> i never used openoffice, and never used MS Office, i wrote all my essays in DOS Navigator
[14:42] <P2502> too heavy
[14:42] <P2502> long startup
[14:42] <TheInfinity> essay -> latex ftw :)
[14:42] <h3sp4wn_> Staroffice makes Openoffice just work better
[14:42] <h3sp4wn_> (But its only free for solaris and windows)
[14:43] <h3sp4wn_> dunno what they provide extra though looks almost the same until you come to trying to read some ms crap
[14:45] <mphill> wine still segfaults :( I will make a 0.56 .deb and put it on my website
[14:47] <P2502> 0.9.56 segfaults?
[14:47] <mphill__> i didn't get 0.9.56 in the repos yet
[14:47] <mphill__> wine-0.9.55 is still on my box
[14:48] <P2502> i know, and you said "I will make a 0.56 .deb"
[14:48] <mphill__> yes
[14:48] <mphill__> once i compile it here in a few minutes
[14:49] <P2502> ah ok
[14:51] <mphill__> wine takes a little bit to compile
[14:51] <P2502> how you make debs? checkinstall?
[14:52] <mphill__> yep
[14:56] <h3sp4wn_> yuck - why not just make a tarball and rpath it so it can live in /opt statically linking when necessary
[14:59] <P2502> what software i may use to access DSLAM network?
[15:00] <h3sp4wn_> What do you mean ?
[15:00] <h3sp4wn_> Normally you admin such hardware with telnet or ssh
[15:00] <P2502> btw Test ATM OAM F5 segment ping: fail
[15:01] <dr-raku> hi; my intel integrated [laptop] wireless card doesn' work anymore; i just upgraded to hardy [alpha 5]; are there built modules for the new kernel [in hardy] for intel wlan cards? please help
[15:01] <h3sp4wn_> Or the answer could be an adsl terminal adapter
[15:01] <h3sp4wn_> strange question to ask ... Only the telco usually accesses the dslam directly
[15:02] <mphill__> h3sp4wn_: with wine is wine the only binary that make install moves?
[15:02] <P2502> h3sp4wn_: admin what? i want to access other computers services like smb or so in same DSLAM as me
[15:03] <P2502> is it possible or dslam is not lan?
[15:03] <h3sp4wn_> read what a dslam is
[15:03] <P2502> already did
[15:04] <P2502> well brief interlude
[15:04] <heret1c> does update-manager -d work for alpha4 -> alpha5?
[15:06] <dr-raku> my intel 3945abg wireless card doesn't work after upgraded to hardy alpha 5; it isn't listed in "restricted drivers" neither; what should i do?
[15:06] <h3sp4wn_> P2502: afaik you cannot do what you want -
[15:07] <P2502> h3sp4wn_: in my modem interface mentioned something called "DSL provider network", thats i want to have access to, not only internet
[15:07] <h3sp4wn_> You could with jumpered phone lines run baseband over them though
[15:07] <h3sp4wn_> Unless they have something setup wrong you shouldn't be able to get access to that
[15:08] <dr-raku> can anybody help with info on intel 3945abg in hardy alpha 5?
[15:09] <h3sp4wn_> what is wrong with it ? my 4965 works fine
[15:10] <dr-raku> h3sp4wn_, i just upgraded from 7.10 to 8.04 alpha 5 and my wireless card doesn't show anywhere
[15:11] <h3sp4wn_> Thats probably the issue (switching from the old driver with the daemon to the new mac80211 one)
[15:12] <P2502> !bug 185470
[15:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 185470 in linux "iwl3945 not functioning : microcode error" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/185470
[15:12] <dr-raku> h3sp4wn_, so it is a "no go" for me?
[15:13] <dr-raku> can i make it work again?
[15:13] <h3sp4wn_> Probably
[15:13] <dr-raku> can i have your advice on this? what should i do? reinstall?
[15:14] <schubiki> hello, how can i use german language in firefox 3?
[15:14] <h3sp4wn_> I would guess there is someone in this channel who has had and fixed the same issue (that person is not me though as I installed alpha4 onto this laptop blank)
[15:19] <schubiki> can nobody help me?
[15:19] <schubiki> is there no way of adding language support to firefox manually?
[15:25] <P2502> schubiki: well... it think language in FF should switch if you switch language of OS
[15:25] <P2502> did you tried that?
[15:25] <schubiki> allright, i just had to install http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases/3.0b3/win32/xpi/de.xpi
[15:28] <Mark_Milliman> So has Alpha 5 hit yet?
[15:28] <heret1c> y
[15:29] <Mark_Milliman> I haven't seen it through update manager.
[15:29] <Cubitus> Hi, I have some problems with encrypted file systems and the alternate cd of hardy. If i want to create a encrypted file system, he says something like:" Cannot create file system, because I cannot delete data on device". Can somebody help me?
[15:29] <heret1c> try adept
[15:30] <Mark_Milliman> unless the updates came incrementally from alpha 4
[15:30] <P2502> !release | Mark_Milliman
[15:30] <ubotu> Mark_Milliman: Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[15:30] <P2502> mmm wrong command
[15:30] <P2502> !update
[15:30] <ubotu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
[15:31] <Mark_Milliman> I'm already on alpha 4 and want to get to alpha 5
[15:31] <P2502> you already on alpha 5 congrats
[15:32] <Mark_Milliman> so it was upgraded incrementally
[15:32] <P2502> yes
[15:32] <Mark_Milliman> me dumb
[15:32] <Mark_Milliman> I have been using *nix for 20 years but the whole package management is new to me
[15:34] <dr-raku> h3sp4wn_, thanks anyway; i'll wait for a patch for wlan
[15:34]  * heret1c installs alpha 4 to his brand new hd
[15:35] <tulio> hello... ich have installed ubuntu hard in virtual box and want to change the graphic-diver an the resolution. the way i used by ubuntu 7.10 (reconfigure xserver-xorg) dont run... what can i do?
[15:35] <P2502> heret1c : is it beyond that point where it should die?
[15:35] <P2502> installation
[15:36] <P2502> nvm bad joke
[15:36] <heret1c> p2502> 75%
[15:37] <gnubie> Interesting, I installed kde on my gnome alpha 4 and I got KDE4. I d'ld,installed alpha5(gnome) and got kde 3.5 when I did a kde install
[15:38] <P2502> heret1c: what speed you get?
[15:39] <P2502> transfer rate
[15:39] <heret1c> installing system...
[15:39] <P2502> you may run test from livecd...
[15:39] <P2502> well before starting installation probably
[15:40] <heret1c> why?
[15:40] <heret1c> brand new hd.
[15:40] <P2502> to test if your problem with ide controller (?) fixed or not in hardy
[15:41] <heret1c> brb,must get beer before roo late
[15:41] <P2502> you said you was getting 3 mb/s
[15:41] <P2502> or so
[15:43] <P2502> tulio: to have advanced resolutions in guest OS in virtualbox you should install Add-on from virtualbox interface
[15:44] <P2502> mmm probably you done that?
[15:46] <tulio> i had installed the stuff after reboot there no changes
[15:47] <Laney> bash-completion isn't installed by default any more? Why's this?
[15:52] <P2502> tulio: is it your problem http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=3621 ?
[15:54] <Assid> err brb
[15:54] <tulio> no the additions are installed but how can i change the resolution... xorg is new and the old way isnt possible
[15:56] <P2502> tulio: i think xorg.conf still may be used for overrides, but you should see resolution in change resolution applet, you also may test if you using vbox videodriver or not
[15:56] <P2502> if its loaded lsmod
[15:57] <P2502> sudo modprobe vboxvideo
[15:57] <tulio> the applet fpr chabge the resoluion is empty...
[16:00] <Solarion> what is needed in order to see trackpad config options in the mouse capplet?
[16:01] <P2502> tulio: also you may find info in logs like dmesg, /var/log/Xorg.0.log ...
[16:01] <Assid> hrmm.. im gonna have to make a new account and try this.. it seems crazy
[16:06] <P2502> tulio:  also it is not clear what you mean: " (reconfigure xserver-xorg) dont run"
[16:07] <P2502> it probably should describe what error is
[16:07] <heret1c> wop
[16:07] <P2502> world of padman?
[16:08] <heret1c> /dev/sda:
[16:08] <heret1c>  Timing cached reads:   616 MB in  2.00 seconds = 307.78 MB/sec
[16:08] <heret1c>  Timing buffered disk reads:  148 MB in  3.06 seconds =  48.30 MB/sec
[16:08]  * heret1c grins
[16:08] <P2502> now use smartmontools to check load cycles
[16:10] <heret1c> mysr w8 - apt's busy.
[16:10] <Solarion> so, what triggers trackpad options in the mouse capplet"
[16:15] <JDahl> I am tempted to upgrade to Heron to get a newer kernel and fixes for my laptop,  but there are 3 packages that are critical to me:  openafs,  latex and acroread.  Can anyone here comment on the current status of those packages in Heron? (I know that acroread is 3rd party software)
[16:16] <P2502> you may check availabilty and version number at packages.ubuntu.com
[16:16] <virtuelv> are there any problems reported with logging in to Hardy?
[16:16] <virtuelv> a fresh install on a machine I have refuses to log users in, except in to failsafe gnome
[16:17] <JDahl> P2502, yes,  but especially with openafs I would like to hear first hand experiences,  since it oftens fails to compile with brand new kernels
[16:19] <Assid> hey
[16:20] <heret1c> wee
[16:20] <Assid> my profile somehow shows corrupted
[16:20] <heret1c>  <- new hd
[16:20] <Assid> i deleted all the .g* and still it doesnt work right
[16:20] <Assid> the new profile i loaded i get the mounts and stuff to load correctly
[16:21] <Assid> new profile as in new user
[16:21] <Assid> anyone have any suggestions?
[16:21] <heret1c> must restart, brb
[16:21] <Assid> heret1c: wait wait
[16:21] <Assid> :(
[16:21] <coz_> ah oh
[16:22] <Assid> i dont see the mounts on my desktop anymore. new user created gets it tho
[16:22] <bullgard4> Is the following statement true: "/proc/acpi  is being removed soon - it's  considered deprecated in 2.6.24."?
[16:22] <Assid> i even got rid of .nautilis
[16:24] <Assid> anyone ?
[16:24]  * Assid goes to try and fix this
[16:31] <Solarion> dir
[16:31] <Solarion> dnagit
[16:33] <Enselic> My Xorg is using ridicious amounts of the CPU for no appearent reason. Any clues why this might be?
[16:33] <MFen> i'm having problems with getting my network to come back to life after resume-from-suspend
[16:34] <MFen> i'm using madwifi-ng drivers from a recent nightly
[16:34] <MFen> i think i know the procedure that needs  to run.. but i don't know where to put it
[16:34] <MFen> i've been typing manually "rmmod mod1 mod2; sudo iwpriv ath0 bgscan 0; modprobe mod2" and that usually does the trick
[16:35] <MFen> but i don't want to have to *type* it .. i figure there must be some place to put hooks of this kind, any hints?
[16:35] <InsClusoe> Hi everyone... I am running hardy alpha 4 on a toshiba portege tablet pc. Does ubuntu have support for stylus? I would like to use stylus to draw in GIMP. Any ideas?
[16:36] <MFen> and in case anyone doesn't know that one, i'm having trouble with my mute key as well. sometimes mute decides to mute the alsa "Front" channel, and sometimes the "Master" channel.  when it mutes "Front", the only way to unmute is to manually run alsamixer. any hints there either?
[16:36] <MFen> Enselic: you're probably not using an accelerated driver. what's your video card?
[16:39] <Enselic> MFen: Intel, and this performance issue started recetnly, I've been using the same hardware without problems
[16:40] <Enselic> except that my bluetooth also has stopped working after having worked, also that for no appearent reason. that was a months or so ago though
[16:40] <MFen> Enselic: sure, but it's possible a recent change disabled your accelerated driver somehow :)
[16:40] <Enselic> MFen: hmm I guess, yeah
[16:40] <MFen> i don't know much about intels though
[16:41] <Enselic> Intel have good open source support
[16:41] <MFen> yeah, i figured
[16:41] <Enselic> WPA wirless works flawlessly
[16:41] <Enselic> (also Intel laptop stuff)
[16:41] <MFen> check /etc/X11/xorg.conf and make sure there's something in there that looks like an intel driver?
[16:44] <Assid> okay someone wanna help me please
[16:44] <Assid> i deleted all my .g* files .. and .config file to no effect
[16:45] <Assid> i cant get the mounts to launch up when i login (the way it used to). Also the startup has a few nautilis popping on and off
[16:45] <Enselic> MFen: yep, driver is "intel", and it was last changed 5 months ago anyway :)
[16:45] <Enselic> Assid: mounts are configured in /etc/fstab, not .g*
[16:46] <Assid> Enselic: not if they arent in the /etc/fstab
[16:46] <Assid> they are supposed to pop up on your desktop
[16:46] <Assid> even if you put in a dvd/cd .. its supposed to pop on your desktop
[16:47] <Assid> atm, none of that happens
[16:48] <heret1c> yay
[16:48] <P2502> Assid: i guess you should try fresh install of alpha 5
[16:48] <P2502> or at lease livecd
[16:48] <Assid> thats not the problem.. if i create a new user.. it works under that user fine
[16:49] <P2502> at least
[16:49] <moomo1> please add wine 0.9.56 to repostitory!!
[16:49] <heret1c> 225 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       48
[16:49] <Assid> so its not anything to do with alpha5/4
[16:50] <moomo1> please fix so mouse fx shizzle plugin for compiz works
[16:50] <P2502> Assid: i see
[16:50] <Assid> its a userprofile gone haywire
[16:50] <moomo1> when is alpha5 out?
[16:50] <heret1c> ages ago
[16:50] <Assid> heret1c: any idea on my issue ?
[16:50] <heret1c> at least 7 hrs.
[16:50] <Unksi> for about 18 hours already :P
[16:50] <InsClusoe> Hi everyone... I am trying out hardy alpha 4 on a toshiba portege tablet pc. Does ubuntu have support for stylus? I would like to use stylus to draw in GIMP. Any ideas?
[16:51] <heret1c> assid> botched account?
[16:51] <Assid> yeah
[16:51] <Assid> need to fix it
[16:51] <Assid> any idea what/hjow ?
[16:51] <Enselic> InsClusoe: Wacom tablets works nice afaik
[16:51] <moomo1> i need alpha5, but when i type 'update-manager -d' it dont come, why?
[16:51] <heret1c> what's wrong?
[16:51] <Enselic> moomo1: you alrady have alpha5 then
[16:51] <InsClusoe> Enselic: You mean, it works out of the box?
[16:51] <Assid> nautilis doesnt load up my drives and stuff onto the desktop
[16:51] <Unksi> moomo1: you only need to use normal apt-get dist-upgrade ;)
[16:51] <moomo1> Enselics, oh strange, i dont remember installing it
[16:52] <moomo1> unksi, oh
[16:52] <Assid> also when the system boots.. nautilis shows up 1/2 a dozen times (im guessing its mounting the drives there)
[16:52] <InsClusoe> Enselic: I am on live cd session now. Thought I will check everything's sorta ok before installing..
[16:52] <Enselic> InsClusoe: I would think you need some configuration, but it should be easy to find information for that
[16:52] <Unksi> if you use hardy, that is
[16:52] <Enselic> moomo1: if you just keep updating your system, you will get the latest stuff of the Ubuntu development
[16:52] <moomo1> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade -- 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[16:52] <moomo1> oh okie
[16:52] <Assid> and no i didnt change the settings to NOT show on desktop. it just went off on its own
[16:53] <moomo1> but the mouse fx thing in compiz dont work
[16:53] <moomo1> please fix it
[16:53] <InsClusoe> Enselic: Would be good if you can show me the direction. A link or two would be greatly appreciated.
[16:53] <Enselic> InsClusoe: google.com
[16:53] <Assid> heret1c: any idea?
[16:53] <Enselic> wacom gimp
[16:53] <Enselic> Assid: looked at settings in Nautilus?
[16:54] <InsClusoe> Enselic: Thanks. I found a howto on ubuntuforums tutorials and tips section. Hope it works.
[16:54] <heret1c> assid> I'm a kde  man - but I hazard it's a permissions issue.
[16:54] <Assid> Enselic: i didnt change anything
[16:54] <moomo1> hardy heron is a bit buggy, sometimes stuff crash
[16:55] <Assid> Enselic: nevertheless i dont see anythingf ro that
[16:55] <Assid> for that even
[16:55] <Enselic> moomo1: that's why it is called "alpha" and "development version"
[16:55] <Assid> heret1c: new user works perfect
[16:55] <Assid> i dont want to have ato backup  my homedir everytime something stupid like this takes place
[16:55] <heret1c> assid> erk. a groups issue then?
[16:56] <moomo1> enselic, ya my Wine dont work, and not the "show mouse" plugin for compiz either, and i cant put refresh rate to 85 or 100 hz, so now its only 50 hz :(
[16:56] <Assid> heret1c: nope why would this stop working on this user on its own
[16:57] <heret1c> assid> must confess ignorance. ask cwillu when he arrives.
[16:57] <P2502> ghost in the machine
[16:57] <moomo1> for ubuntu to succeed in the market place, it needs to better support porno
[16:58] <P2502> whats wrong with porno?
[16:58] <moomo1> P2502: the media players doesnt have so good quality
[16:58] <heret1c> p35> pauli syndrome? 8)
[16:58] <Assid> bah
[16:58] <moomo1> the playback is not so good, its not easy to skip in movies, and it doesnt always work
[16:58] <Assid> will backup my user account and move it back
[16:58] <moomo1> and quality isnt "smooth" it looks a big rough
[16:58] <P2502> moomo1: try vlc
[16:58] <moomo1> i have vlc
[16:59] <P2502> work ok for me
[16:59] <heret1c> moomoo1> what hdparm say?
[16:59] <moomo1> and the post-processing isnt enabled by default, so by default the porno looks horrible
[17:00] <Assid> i think i will just backup evertything and dump it back
[17:00] <nerdygirl_ellie> Hello.
[17:00]  * Assid needs to stop storing stuff in his homedir
[17:00]  * heret1c dips hat at ellie
[17:00] <QwertyM> Where else would one store stuff?
[17:00] <Assid> err is there a nice little gui to setup software raid ?
[17:00] <Assid> nerdygirl ?!!?
[17:00] <P2502> nerdygirl_ellie: hows in kanzas?
[17:01] <Assid> one in a million
[17:01] <moomo1> yeah we should make society rules and a school that produces nerdygirls, just like the muslims do
[17:01] <nerdygirl_ellie> Question::  I'm having issues with HH and Firefox, but I'm not sure who to bugticket.  It seems that I'm getting some display corruption if FF in random spots, which looks related to IMG tags resized by css.
[17:01] <heret1c> assid> have a sep partition for /home?
[17:02] <Assid> heret1c:  nah
[17:02] <Assid> i kinda screwed up
[17:02] <nerdygirl_ellie> The display corruption is an "echo" of the title bar and headers, and if FF isn't maximized, the windows underneath it.
[17:02] <Assid> but i want only 20GB partitions for my mails and projects..
[17:02] <heret1c> assid> sep home part is beneficial.
[17:02] <Assid> i can resize the partitions right?
[17:02]  * nerdygirl_ellie is in Tennessee.
[17:03]  * nerdygirl_ellie has a separate home partition.
[17:03] <Assid> heret1c: yeah i know.. but at present.. just want to raid mails and projects only
[17:03] <heret1c> attagirl.
[17:03]  * nerdygirl_ellie makes backups and isn't muslim. :)
[17:03] <nerdygirl_ellie> Ok, that catches me up, what's new?
[17:03] <P2502> nerdygirl_ellie: i has noticed white lines or dots or something when i start firefox, before firefox window show itself, but now its maybe gone
[17:03] <Assid> ntfs is soo damn slow :(
[17:04] <heret1c> ellie> a5?
[17:04] <nerdygirl_ellie> You have your /home on ntfs?
[17:04] <Assid> nope
[17:04] <nerdygirl_ellie> Good.  The permissions would be "wacky".  Or nonexistent.
[17:04] <Assid> backing up my profile/user dir onto a ntfs partition
[17:05] <Assid> my account seems kinda messed up atm
[17:05] <Assid> bbiab
[17:05] <Assid> if i can
[17:05] <nerdygirl_ellie> Assid: one sec.
[17:05] <moomo1> i was about to say "what idiot users ntfs for /home", but then i thought... hey thats a good idea, then i can access my files from windows
[17:06] <void^> there are ext2/ext3 drivers for windows, by the way
[17:06] <nerdygirl_ellie> ... except it's going to eat your permissions, and you won't be able to chmod anything in your home directory executable. which would drive me absofrickinlutely nuts.
[17:06]  * nerdygirl_ellie is a bash queen.
[17:06] <P2502> nerdygirl_ellie: do you have hurricanes in Tennessee?
[17:06] <nerdygirl_ellie> Yes.
[17:08] <nerdygirl_ellie> Apparently they don't like tornadoes.
[17:08] <nerdygirl_ellie> Whoops.
[17:08] <nerdygirl_ellie> P2502: Tornadoes, not hurricanes.
[17:08] <heret1c> >msg nerdygirl_ellie How's Ron Paul doing in T.? :)
[17:09] <heret1c> drat
[17:09] <moomo1> do anyone here use compiz and get pink dropshadow?
[17:09] <moomo1> heret1c, when you talk to girls, dont start talk about politics
[17:09] <nerdygirl_ellie> heret1c: afaik, he dropped out of the race.
[17:10] <P2502> nerdygirl_ellie: like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dszpics1.jpg
[17:11] <heret1c> moo> gooshnargh.
[17:11] <jpatrick> could we please take the offtopic talk to #ubuntu-offtopic
[17:12] <P2502>  jpatrick: ok sorry
[17:13] <moomo1> do anyone here use compiz and get pink dropshadow?
[17:13] <burner> can anyone help me set nautilus back as the default file manager?  somehow thunar took over when I upgraded to hardy
[17:13]  * nerdygirl_ellie causes people to slip ot. :)\
[17:18] <mellery_> hello! just updated to hardy the other day
[17:19] <moomo1> is tex broken in hardy?
[17:21] <moomo1> when i open "hardware drivers" (restrcited) it ask me for password, before i open it, even if i dont want change anything, just look
[17:21] <mellery_> Theres a transparent square in the lower middle of my screen that seems to appear randomly, i think its the screen brightness widget, how can i track down why its popping up, or make it stop?
[17:22] <sofiankrt> is this the random chatter channel?
[17:22] <moomo1> no
[17:22] <moomo1> that is #ubuntu-social
[17:22] <sofiankrt> which one is?
[17:22] <moomo1> i think
[17:22] <sofiankrt> ok, great
[17:22] <sofiankrt> thanks
[17:22] <jpatrick> !ot
[17:22] <sofiankrt> !ot
[17:22] <ubotu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[17:23] <sofiankrt> bye!
[17:32] <s0u][ight> hi guys
[17:37] <P2502> i would like to see comparison livecd vs dvd, what apps included in dvd
[17:38] <P2502> does dvd ship with both gnome and kde?
[17:38] <Kalpik> P2502, the DVD has extra packages from the repos.. so you dont have to download a lot
[17:38] <Kalpik> but the install is same for both DVD and CS
[17:38] <Kalpik> *CD
[17:39] <moomo1> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/countdown <-- when does countdown for 8.04 hardy start?
[17:40] <hath_thee_thou> can anybody tell me if there is a newer kde to be released in april or may 2008?
[17:40] <moomo1> ask #kde
[17:40] <moomo1> 3.5.9 is released and 4.0.1
[17:41] <hath_thee_thou> some one told me of a nwer onr that will have a 3 yr support, but its not on kde site.....
[17:41] <teprrr> hath_thee_thou, 3.5.9 was just released
[17:42] <teprrr> and 4.0.2 will be released next month, don't know the exact date though
[17:42] <hath_thee_thou> thats the one, can you link me please??
[17:42] <teprrr> and no, kde doesn't provide anything like 3-year support
[17:42] <teprrr> it's up to the distro to do that, if wanted so
[17:44] <hath_thee_thou> has the problem " libraries "libpython2.5so" not found in paths,     been resolved yet??
[17:49] <hath_thee_thou> can anyone tell me if this problem has been resolved yet??    -->>   Library files for "libpython2.5so" not found in paths
[17:50] <mellery__> are windows supposed to jump to maximized if i try dragging them in hardy?
[17:50] <s0u][ight> npoe
[17:50] <mellery__> hmmm
[17:51] <s0u][ight> what window decorator?
[17:51] <mellery__> just gnome
[17:51] <h3sp4wn_> I noticed that but didn't think it was a bad thing
[17:53] <h3sp4wn_> I still don't see the point in compiz if it means I have to switch to the performance governor to get it working smooth
[17:53] <mellery__> i'm also having problems with my cursor dragging tabs in gedit into their own windows, it gets stuck in drag mode it looks like, if its related
[17:53] <h3sp4wn_> (and hence have the fans on full pelt all the time)
[17:53] <s0u][ight> h3sp4wn_ i had no problems with compiz?
[17:54] <s0u][ight> but they should include the compizconfig-settings-manager
[17:54] <s0u][ight> u have to download it :|
[17:54] <DanglyBits> how do i install the latest nvidia drivers for hardy?
[17:55] <h3sp4wn_> s0u][ight: Its not as smooth as the normal window manager
[17:55] <h3sp4wn_> (I have an nvidia quadro 1600m with 512MB so it aint the video card)
[17:55] <s0u][ight> my intel doesn't show any bad things :s
[17:56] <RoC_MasterMind> !nvidia > DanglyBits
[17:56] <h3sp4wn_> Its fine if I stop powernowd
[17:57] <DanglyBits> nvidia
[17:57] <Andre_Gondim> when I use aptitude the tab completation does not works, there is something wrong?
[17:57] <DanglyBits> if i try restricted drivers it does not give high screen res option nor allows monitor selection
[17:58] <s0u][ight> i have bugs with my b43 driver (my interface has a weird name :| wlan0_rename ) i followed the hardy upgrade howto on the ubuntu forums but didn't help for the name
[18:02] <h3sp4wn_> Andre_Gondim: running as root ?
[18:03] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, with sudo
[18:03] <h3sp4wn_> Thats strange - are you using bash ?
[18:03] <h3sp4wn_> try manually source /etc/bash_completion
[18:05] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_,  source /etc/bash_completion.d/
[18:05] <Andre_Gondim> bash: source: /etc/bash_completion.d/: é um diretório
[18:06] <h3sp4wn_> no its the file in /etc/ you wnat to source
[18:06] <h3sp4wn_> ls -l /etc/bash_completion
[18:07] <h3sp4wn_> or just use zsh its completion is better anyway
[18:08] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, maybe source bash.bashrc, may i try?
[18:08] <h3sp4wn_> . /etc/bash_completion
[18:08] <h3sp4wn_> if that file doesn't exist the problem is the bash completion is not installed
[18:09] <h3sp4wn_> but it is supposed to be part of bash
[18:09] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, but only does not work with aptitude to completation others command work
[18:10] <h3sp4wn_> Its working for me here (with bash)
[18:10] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, let me reboot here..
[18:31] <moomo1> i get pink dropshadows
[18:31] <moomo1> in cmopiz
[18:31] <moomo1> why?
[18:32] <h3sp4wn_> installed some zomg ponies edition ?
[18:33] <moomo1> no
[18:36] <Paladine> magic pink maybe? issue with transparency
[18:36] <forsaken> yey, firefox and rhythmbox can share sound again! :)
[18:37] <h3sp4wn_> I have never had any sound from rhythmbox since installing hardy here
[18:38] <Paladine> I bet I know why ;)
[18:38] <h3sp4wn_> Because I use amarok anyway ?
[18:39] <Paladine> no because of the alsa-plugins bug I have been trying to fix for the better part of 20 hours which makes things break if pulseaudio is running
[18:39] <h3sp4wn_> I use oss4 on this box anyway
[18:39] <h3sp4wn_> without pulse
[18:39] <Paladine> in hardy?
[18:39] <Paladine> I thought pulse was the sound daemon in hardy?
[18:39] <h3sp4wn_> yep
[18:39] <Paladine> you disabled it?
[18:40] <h3sp4wn_> yep
[18:40] <burner> my mic broke ever since I installed pulse in gutsy... it sucks my balls right now
[18:40] <h3sp4wn_> don't need it with oss4
[18:40] <h3sp4wn_> vmix handles it all in the kernel
[18:40] <ffer> there should be a "watch this bug" or "I think this bug affects me too" option in launch pad =)
[18:41] <h3sp4wn_> I just don't worry about it anything is fine (salsa emulates alsa for flash)(
[18:41] <h3sp4wn_> there is a watch this bug isn't there
[18:42] <h3sp4wn_> I think I could use oss4 with pulse as well but its not built against oss4 so its too much effort
[18:42] <Paladine> burner, sounds like the same problem
[18:42] <Paladine> if you diable pulseaudio you should be ok
[18:43] <Paladine> disable too
[18:43] <burner> how do I disable it?
[18:43] <burner> uninstall it or just disable via some checkbox somewhere
[18:43] <h3sp4wn_> I just moved it to /usr/bin/pulseaudio-disabled
[18:44] <underwatercow> When I try running the 64bit live CD, it doesn't seem to want to display anything after the initial menu... anyone know why this is or what I can do to fix it?
[18:44] <h3sp4wn_> try removing splash and quiet
[18:45] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: will that help fix it? or just help identify the problem?
[18:46] <h3sp4wn_> underwatercow: My laptop won't work at all with usplash
[18:46] <h3sp4wn_> (it has a 1900x1200 screen that just goes black)
[18:46] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: alright, let me try that
[18:46] <Paladine> yeah same here
[18:46] <Paladine> usplash won't work on 1920x1200
[18:46] <h3sp4wn_> It could also tell you the answer (try  boot with noapic or irq=poll)
[18:47] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_, Paladine: why does the splash cause problems? I did try with noapic and irqpoll
[18:47] <h3sp4wn_> I still think the best one is "IRQ 19: nobody cared"
[18:47] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: what does that refer to?
[18:47] <h3sp4wn_> I think you need irqpoll in that case
[18:47] <Paladine> because it tries to resize the screen to 1280x1024 I think (iirc) and most 1920x1200 monitors only support 1920x1200 as their native res
[18:48] <h3sp4wn_> Its a hack if you are going to do stuff like this you shouldn't hardcode anything
[18:49] <underwatercow> What is the difference between the options "try without changing" and "install" on the livecd now?
[18:50] <underwatercow> and on the options, it ends with quiet splash --.... does the -- do anything?
[18:53] <h3sp4wn_> Don't think it makes a difference if its removed or not
[18:54] <mikedep333> I'm trying to figure out weather hardy is using nv or nvidia. What is the command to see your X info from a graphical session?
[18:55] <h3sp4wn_> mikedep333: does /proc/driver/nvidia/version exist ?
[18:55] <h3sp4wn_> (If it doesn't its definately nv if it does it may or may not be nv)
[18:56] <mikedep333> it doesn't exist, so it must be nv
[18:56] <h3sp4wn_> system administration -> hardware drivers should be able to enable it
[18:56] <mikedep333> I asked because restricted drivers manager is confused about whether I'm running nvidia or not
[18:57] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: removing quiet and splash fixed it... it brought up gnome settings daemon error, but other than that seems ifne...
[18:57] <mikedep333> ok, I loaded the package list off the server and now restricted drivers manager detects that it is not installed
[18:57] <mikedep333> thx
[18:57] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: what is the deal with the bird thing? is that the new artwork? I thought they went with the elephant skin...
[18:57] <h3sp4wn_> mikedep333: try sudo update-pciids
[18:58] <h3sp4wn_> underwatercow: No idea I use the ubuntustudio theme
[18:58] <mikedep333> it's installing nvidia-glx-new now
[18:58] <mikedep333> so I'll just let it go
[18:59] <mikedep333> what's with the new synaptic repos menu?
[18:59] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: ah... do you use ubuntu-studio? or just the theme?
[18:59] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: thanks for your help btw
[19:00] <h3sp4wn_> underwatercow: Just for the theme at the moment - too busy with other stuff
[19:00] <h3sp4wn_> getting jackd working is alot less of a pita than it used to be though
[19:02] <Duninho> Welcome everyone, yesterday someone here told me to boot instalation with all_generic_ide option so it will detect my cdrom, but it didnt again, a friend of mine told me to use the old drivers but i dont know whats the command for it, couse the problem is when it tries to use pata_sis
[19:02] <Paladine> so when is Canonical gonna do a deal with Intervideo to include LinDVD with Ubuntu (like Dell do)
[19:03] <h3sp4wn_> That won't happen will it if its a commercial product
[19:03] <Paladine> *cough* cups**restricted drivers**cough*
[19:04] <Paladine> LinDVD is not actually a commercial product
[19:04] <Paladine> it is a proprietary product but it is not available for sale
[19:04] <Paladine> only available under license to manufacturers
[19:04] <h3sp4wn_> Then ubuntu wouldn't be freely redistributable
[19:05] <h3sp4wn_> as you would have to have a license to redistribute lindvd
[19:05] <Paladine> thats debateable, Dell seem to have no problems with it
[19:05] <Paladine> you don't pay dell for ubuntu
[19:06] <h3sp4wn_> You pay dell money and they give you ubuntu + extras
[19:06] <Paladine> I didn't just build a 64bit .deb for lindvd about 12 hours ago either, thats just a nasty rumour *cough*
[19:06] <h3sp4wn_> You have the source ?
[19:06] <Paladine> no
[19:06] <Paladine> but rpm + alien is your friend
[19:06] <h3sp4wn_> I would rather have that sort of stuff in /opt
[19:07] <moomo1> im only one who use compiz and get pink shadows?
[19:07] <h3sp4wn_> I think the users of the ubuntu for women project may have them
[19:07] <Paladine> hahahaha
[19:07] <Paladine> dude that was so unCoC
[19:07] <moomo1> lol
[19:07] <Paladine> but still funny
[19:07] <underwatercow> moomo1: I remember something was funky with the shadows... but I think mine were red...  Iforget
[19:07] <moomo1> unCoC?
[19:08] <Paladine> CoC = Code of Conduct
[19:08] <moomo1> oh
[19:08] <h3sp4wn_> http://ilovetallwoman.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/captura_da_tela-3.jpg
[19:08] <h3sp4wn_> Its from a launchpad page so it does exist I think
[19:09] <Paladine> yeah it exists
[19:09] <Paladine> but I couldn't look at that all day
[19:09] <Paladine> nay not even 5 minutes
[19:10] <Paladine> I think even a blind person would have problems looking at that for more than 5 minutes
[19:11] <Paladine> seriously it sounds like an issue with transparency
[19:11] <h3sp4wn_> Does that satanic edition still exist ? I remember Mark shuttleworth commenting about it
[19:11] <moomo1> lol
[19:12] <moomo1> that was dumb, ubuntu christian edition lolz
[19:12] <Paladine> I think it became a full blown distro
[19:12] <Paladine> the satanic version
[19:12] <Paladine> started out as a joke and became really popular iirc
[19:12] <Assid> moomo1: you mean that backgorund lighting ?
[19:12] <moomo1> oh
[19:12] <Assid> yeahi get that as well
[19:12] <h3sp4wn_> http://ubuntusatanic.org/
[19:12] <Paladine> I remember jesux
[19:12] <Paladine> from waaay back in the 90s
[19:14] <Paladine> http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/4081/
[19:14] <h3sp4wn_> I was running freebsd for that period of time so I guess there was some devil influence
[19:15] <Paladine> bit of Linux cult history for you there :)
[19:15] <Paladine> it actually started out as a hoax, but if I remember correctly someone actually did build a source tree for it eventually
[19:15] <Paladine> that page is rather funny though :)
[19:16] <afflux> will hardy+1 shortname be intrepid or ibex?
[19:16] <moomo1> Assid: maybe
[19:16] <Assid> would like to get rid ofit frankly
[19:17] <moomo1> assid, you have pink shadows too?
[19:17] <Assid> yeha
[19:17] <Assid> comes with human i think
[19:18] <Paladine> chmod(1) accepts hexadecimal modes, such as 0x01B6  ;)
[19:19] <moomo1> oh finaly someone else who get it too!!
[19:19] <moomo1> assid, why are the shadows pink, shouldnt they be gray?
[19:19] <Assid> no clue
[19:19] <moomo1> assid, you can disable them in compizconfig settings manager, in "Window Decorator" plugin
[19:20] <Assid> well thats the thing.. its on by default. and fixes itself with compiz
[19:22] <Assid> err anyone know why the middle click of the mouse doesnt behave like an "auto scroll"
[19:22] <Assid> and how to enable it
[19:23] <moomo1> yeah, i wonder that too
[19:24] <moomo1> i guess its cuz they use middle-click for strange stuff like drag-and-drop, menus, copy&paste, etc
[19:24] <Assid> i had it.. beforei deleted my profile and made it again
[19:24] <moomo1> i came from windows, so i expect it to be auto-scroll
[19:24] <timing> 02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01)
[19:24] <timing> I have that card
[19:25] <timing> and the Hardware drivers is saying i have a proprietary driver loaded
[19:25] <moomo1> i have mouse with 5 buttons, 2 on side, i want them for browse forward/back like in windows, but linux they not like that :(
[19:25] <timing> but ifconfig -a doesn't show a wlan0, or any other device next to eth0 and lo
[19:26] <s0u][ight> timing, what driver are u using
[19:26] <s0u][ight> atheros chipsets need madwifi
[19:26] <timing> ohw
[19:26] <timing> what's that?
[19:26] <h3sp4wn_> yeah but whether you need trunk madwifi or not
[19:26] <timing> shouldn't that be used automatically  ?
[19:26] <s0u][ight> it a driver
[19:27] <s0u][ight> normally yes but it is possible that it is not in ur ccase :s
[19:27] <h3sp4wn_> Its not usual that ubuntu will use an svn version
[19:27] <h3sp4wn_> if something like madwifi
[19:27] <h3sp4wn_> s/if/of
[19:27] <timing> so apt-get install madwifi-tools?
[19:27] <timing> linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24-8-386 - Non-free Linux 2.6.24 modules on 386
[19:27] <timing> or that one?
[19:28] <s0u][ight> i have no clue perhaps ask in #madwifi
[19:28] <h3sp4wn_> look at dmesg and - try modprobe ath_pci
[19:28] <timing> okay, i'll go there
[19:28] <h3sp4wn_> don't ask there without reading the wiki
[19:29] <h3sp4wn_> and compiling the latest snapshot
[19:29] <timing> hah aokay
[19:29] <timing> thanks for the tip
[19:29] <h3sp4wn_> (unless you want to be flamed or ignored)
[19:29] <h3sp4wn_> Its not that difficult
[19:30] <h3sp4wn_> I think I would go for - http://snapshots.madwifi.org/madwifi-dfs-current.tar.gz
[19:30] <h3sp4wn_> dfs has some other fixes not merged into the trunk yet
[19:31] <emet> !info wine
[19:31] <ubotu> wine (source: wine): Microsoft Windows Compatibility Layer (Binary Emulator and Library). In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9.55-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 34871 kB, installed size 108000 kB
[19:31] <s0u][ight> wine is nice :D got wow under wine :D
[19:32] <h3sp4wn_> Can wine run pretty much anything these days ?
[19:32] <emet> no
[19:32] <Paladine> definitely no
[19:32] <emet> I was checking if .56 was uploaded
[19:32] <Paladine> most things requiring .net for a start
[19:32] <h3sp4wn_> I used crossover office a few years ago and that was pretty good for what it supported
[19:32] <h3sp4wn_> .net should work with mono though right ?
[19:33] <h3sp4wn_> (theoretically)
[19:33] <Paladine> if it doesn't need windows.forms
[19:33] <Paladine> which most .net stuff does
[19:33] <emet> Paladine, mono supports most of winodws forms
[19:33] <h3sp4wn_> yeah but wine shouldn't concentrate on that
[19:33] <moomo1> should i put 'Option "BackingStore" "True" in my xorg.conf ?
[19:33] <Paladine> naaah the mono implimentation is still pretty tatty
[19:33] <emet> you can also install wine for windows  under wine :o
[19:34] <emet> err
[19:34] <emet> mono for  windows
[19:34] <h3sp4wn_> And does that help any ?
[19:34] <h3sp4wn_> Can visual c++ express run under wine
[19:34] <h3sp4wn_> (and currently downloadable version)
[19:35] <h3sp4wn_> s/and/any
[19:35] <Paladine> I avoid windows carp as much as is humanly possible so i wouldn't know
[19:36] <s0u][ight> are there no linux alternatives?
[19:36] <h3sp4wn_> There is tons of Linux alternatives but it doesn't change the fact that my project has to compile under that junk
[19:36] <h3sp4wn_> (as that is what the person marking it uses)
[19:37] <Paladine> h3sp4wn_, I had to do some c# crap last summer and -had- to use sharpdevelop (not the linux version)
[19:37] <Paladine> man was a pissed
[19:37] <Paladine> s/a/I
[19:37] <h3sp4wn_> The annoying thing is this is C
[19:37] <s0u][ight> lmao
[19:37] <h3sp4wn_> (But he wants it to build under visual c++ and its no end of messing around)
[19:38] <Paladine> coding in c# in windows in virtualbox just makes the entire process even more intolerable than doing it in windows natively
[19:38] <Paladine> talk about -slow-
[19:39] <s0u][ight> coding in a vm?
[19:39] <Paladine> oh I had to do some prolog stuff also in a windows editor/pseudoIDE
[19:39] <Paladine> just as bad
[19:39] <Paladine> well yeah you think I am gonna install windows in anything other than a sandbox?
[19:39] <Paladine> puhleeese
[19:40] <s0u][ight> well i got a dual boot ;]
[19:40] <Paladine> dual booting is like being bisexual
[19:40] <Paladine> it is for people who can't make up their mind
[19:40]  * Paladine ducks
[19:40] <s0u][ight> naah i have a dualboot cuz of my father
[19:40] <s0u][ight> he refuses to use linux
[19:41] <Paladine> fortunately my father is dead, because if he was alived and tried to get me to install windows he would be soon be dead
[19:41] <s0u][ight> lmao
[19:41] <s0u][ight> well i'm 16 so my father is pretty young aswell
[19:42] <s0u][ight> i think he's 37 or 38
[19:42] <Paladine> I'm old
[19:42] <h3sp4wn_> That doesn't necessarily follow
[19:42] <s0u][ight> ur never too old for linux :D
[19:42] <h3sp4wn_> My grandfather uses slackware
[19:42] <Paladine> I been using Linux (and Unix before that) for almost 20 years
[19:42] <s0u][ight> omg respect
[19:42] <Paladine> so I feel old
[19:43] <s0u][ight> i have slackware installed in a vm
[19:43] <h3sp4wn_> I have used BSD/UNIX/Linux for ~ 10 years
[19:43] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, do you use aptitude?
[19:43] <h3sp4wn_> Andre_Gondim: always
[19:43] <Paladine> first system I ever used was vms
[19:43] <Paladine> man that was hell
[19:43] <Paladine> then sys v
[19:44] <s0u][ight> what's the difference between apt-get and aptitude?
[19:44] <Paladine> then sunOS (later known as solaris)
[19:44] <Paladine> then slackware
[19:44] <h3sp4wn_> First UNIX I ever used was IRIX
[19:44] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, I reinstalled Alpha 5, and the completation does not work =/
[19:44] <[CroX]> Does anyone else have a problem with FF3's rendering? I'm getting some really weird errors, where the toolbar repeats itself as the background of the site(s) I'm visiting.
[19:44] <s0u][ight> well i started easy ubuntu
[19:44] <Andre_Gondim> s0u][ight, aptitude is more smart
[19:44] <h3sp4wn_> Andre_Gondim: try switching to zsh
[19:44] <h3sp4wn_> It definately works with zsh
[19:44] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, how may I do this?
[19:44] <s0u][ight> then backtrack (based on slax ==> slackware)
[19:44] <h3sp4wn_> sudo aptitude install zsh
[19:45] <h3sp4wn_> chsh
[19:45] <h3sp4wn_> /bin/zsh
[19:45] <s0u][ight> gentoo and slackware etc. followed
[19:45] <mellery> i keep getting this box appearing on my screen, can anyone help? http://img170.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotit3.png
[19:45] <h3sp4wn_> then logout and backin and go thru the setup thing
[19:45] <Paladine> I would rather pull my teeth out with MS Branded pliers than use gentoo hehe
[19:45] <h3sp4wn_> You might want to install the zsh-lovers package
[19:46] <h3sp4wn_> If you use paludis gentoo is pretty ok
[19:57] <underwatercow> when I'm installing programs like kate now, am I supposed to install 'kate'? or 'kate-kde4'?
[19:57] <Andre_Gondim> h3sp4wn_, with zsh everything works, but I really like the bash, is there anything I can do?
[19:58] <h3sp4wn_> Dunno I don't use bash but you can with a little effort make zsh do anything you want
[19:59] <Andre_Gondim> ok
[19:59] <underwatercow> kate and kate-kde4 seem to be different versions...
[20:00] <h3sp4wn_> http://grml.org/zsh/zsh-lovers.html
[20:00] <h3sp4wn_> underwatercow: well the default is kde3 stil
[20:00] <h3sp4wn_> l
[20:00] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: so should I install kate? or kate-kde4? or does it matter?
[20:01] <h3sp4wn_> Doesn't matter
[20:01] <h3sp4wn_> Unless you are already using kde3 apps only
[20:02] <h3sp4wn_> (then maybe the kde3 one makes sense so you don't load all the kde4 stuff for just one app)
[20:02] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: I have a fresh install of ubuntu alpha 5
[20:02] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: will kde4 be default in 8.04?
[20:05] <h3sp4wn_> underwatercow: no
[20:16] <jussi01> Any updates that are broken at the moment? anything I should avoid?
[20:18] <Paladine> women with itchy loins?
[20:19] <jpatrick> ...
[20:19] <DanaG> Ugh, way off-topic, and inappropriate, too.
[20:19] <DanaG> Here's a valid issue I have:  bug 190934
[20:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 190934 in libgnomekbd "[hardy] keyboard modifiers randomly forgotten" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/190934
[20:20] <DanaG> It's a rather severe PITA (pain in ... ...).
[20:21] <jussi01> hmmm ouch
[20:22] <Paladine> softphones donut work either
[20:22] <Paladine> and several other apps which get broken by alsa's pulseaudio plugin
[20:23] <jussi01> Paladine: my skype is working fine atm
[20:24] <Paladine> skype is the exception
[20:24] <Paladine> but since I don't want to use a softphone which has a feds backdoor hardcoded into it, I don't use skype
[20:26] <h3sp4wn_> Can you not just get a softphone that plugs into the network
[20:26] <h3sp4wn_> and run asterisk somewhere and avoid the problem
[20:26] <DanaG> Odd: I keep finding a random "xmp:-" file on my desktop with random images.
[20:27] <Paladine> h3sp4wn_, nope not if you are using pulseaudio
[20:28] <h3sp4wn_> Why ? if the phone is a discrete piece of hardware
[20:28] <h3sp4wn_> (perhaps running embedded Linux)
[20:28] <h3sp4wn_> It means you don't need to care about your desktop/laptop
[20:29] <DanaG> Ekiga doesn't work?
[20:29] <DanaG> Wengo doesn't work?
[20:29] <Paladine> if it is standalone sure, but if it is just a usb softphone (basically USB audio) and you use a client (such as ekiga) you got no chance
[20:30] <Paladine> I have spent the last 20odd hours trying to get it to work with help from the pulseaudio and the ekiga guys
[20:30] <Paladine> its proper busted
[20:31] <h3sp4wn_> Yeah we have different definitions of softphone then (mine is anything that has a general purpose cpu)
[20:31] <h3sp4wn_> a mips or arm etc etc
[20:31] <Paladine> a softphone is simply any software or device capable of making/receiving sip calls
[20:32] <DanaG> None of my friends even use softphone apps.  :(
[20:32] <h3sp4wn_> I think you could have a device that could make sip calls in hardware
[20:33] <DanaG> DD-WRT router supports some sort of VoIP thingy (perhaps asterisk).  What's the purpose of that?
[20:34] <Paladine> DD-WRT is asterisk afaik (or a flavour of it)
[20:34] <h3sp4wn_> I think there is just about enough power to run an end point
[20:34] <mikedep333> I know there are routers with built-in vonage support
[20:34] <h3sp4wn_> But running the main server on that is suidide
[20:34] <mikedep333> you might need an optional phone port on that or whatever
[20:34] <h3sp4wn_> *suicide
[20:35] <mikedep333> it might also be to give priority to VoIP traffic over other traffic
[20:35] <Paladine> h3sp4wn_, single line asterisk server can use quite modest hardware
[20:35] <h3sp4wn_> Paladine: 16MB ram mips with 4mb of storage ?
[20:36] <h3sp4wn_> where exactly would the voicemail go
[20:36] <Paladine> the voicemail is stored on your voip suppliers server
[20:36] <Paladine> at least thats how most of them work
[20:36] <Paladine> skype/vonage/sipgate etc
[20:36] <Paladine> all store voicemail on their own servers
[20:37] <h3sp4wn_> You can run all of that yourself
[20:37] <Paladine> yes you can, but you don't have to
[20:39] <Paladine> I think the way things like BT's home hub etc work (vonage examples too) is they just have an FXS/FXO port to deal with the connection tfrom POTS and then forward to their own servers over braodband
[20:40] <DanaG> ekiga: pcm_params.c:2351: sndrv_pcm_hw_params: Assertion `err >= 0' failed.
[20:40] <DanaG> Aborted (core dumped)
[20:40] <Paladine> ding ding
[20:40] <Paladine> told ya :)
[20:41] <DanaG> Used to work in Gusty... or at least it didn't core dump.
[20:41] <Paladine> no do pkill pulseaudio
[20:41] <Paladine> and try again
[20:41] <Paladine> nope doesn't work in gutsy, thats what I am using atm
[20:41] <DanaG> I know I've pulse'd Ekiga one time, but I don't remember how.
[20:41] <Paladine> gutsy doesn't have pulseaudio as the default sound daemon
[20:42] <Paladine> so unless you have pulseaudio installed it works
[20:42] <Paladine> hardy on the other hand does have pulseaudio as the default sound daemon
[20:43] <Paladine> so most softphones (and lots of other things) = epic fail in default hardy setup
[20:43] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/alsa-plugins/+bug/112948
[20:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112948 in alsa-lib "Ekiga hangs when using pulseaudio" [Unknown,In progress]
[20:43] <Paladine> can you get aplay to work?
[20:43] <silent> The requested URL /releases/hardy/alpha-4/ was not found on this server.
[20:44] <h3sp4wn_> use alpha 5
[20:44] <DanaG> aplay works for me with pulse.
[20:44] <silent> cash
[20:44] <Paladine> just using aplay whatever.wav
[20:44] <Paladine> or do you have to use the +D arg?
[20:44] <Paladine> -D whatever
[20:44] <DanaG> I have done asoundconf set-pulseaudio
[20:44] <Paladine> aye so have I
[20:45] <Paladine> but aplay still donut work
[20:45] <Paladine> exactly the same error
[20:45] <Paladine> works when I kill pulse though :)
[20:45] <DanaG> Works fine for the login wav for me, though.
[20:45] <h3sp4wn_> Try oss4 with pulse
[20:45] <DanaG> Playing WAVE '/media/XP/DVD-Audio/03 -- Jeff Trott - No Substitute .wav' : Signed 24 bit Little Endian in 3bytes, Rate 96000 Hz, Channels 6
[20:45] <DanaG> aplay: set_params:901: Sample format non available
[20:46] <h3sp4wn_> http://developer.opensound.com/sources/
[20:46] <DanaG> I tried it, and PulseAudio wouldn't even use it.
[20:47] <DanaG> Plus, the mixer controls were severely confusticating (yes, misspelled on purpose).
[20:47] <h3sp4wn_> I think its simple to use you have to rebuild pulseaudio though
[20:47] <silent> does hardy have any really incredible new features?
[20:47] <h3sp4wn_> and make sure it uses the right soundcard.h
[20:47] <DanaG> "Right soundcard.h"?
[20:48] <h3sp4wn_> well there are multiple versions of soundcard.h
[20:48] <DanaG> Oh yeah, and I'd be using two cards with it: HDA and Audigy.
[20:48] <h3sp4wn_> from the old kernel oss implimentation and oss4
[20:48] <[CroX]> Pidgin requires something called "msgfmt" to be built. Anyone know what package I should install for that?
[20:48] <h3sp4wn_> hda is brilliant with it - I haven't used an audigy for a long time
[20:49] <h3sp4wn_> usb ones should work fine
[20:49] <h3sp4wn_> what is confusing ossmix or ossxmix
[20:50] <DanaG> ossxmix.
[20:50] <DanaG> I use two sound cards exactly for the purpose of using the awesomeness of pulseaudio.
[20:51] <Paladine> does oss4 run as a module or do I have to rebuild my kernel and reboot?
[20:51] <Paladine> I use pulseaudio cos I am too cheap to buy speakers for my media server
[20:52] <h3sp4wn_> I choose sound quality and being as transparant as possible
[20:52] <h3sp4wn_> over gimmicks
[20:52] <h3sp4wn_> Paladine: It runs as a module
[20:52] <[CroX]> Found it. It was "msgfmt", for reference.
[20:53] <DanaG> I'd hardly call sending different apps to different speakers a "gimmick".
[20:53] <DanaG> It lets me play music to offboard speakers, while leaving most stuff with onboard speakers.
[20:53] <DanaG> That way I can mute annoying things easily.
[20:53] <aguitel> how works hardy?
[20:53] <h3sp4wn_> I just have a visual bell
[20:54] <h3sp4wn_> and music going to the speakers and the onboard audio disabled
[20:54] <h3sp4wn_> well muted
[20:54] <Paladine> pulseaudio is more environmentally friendly
[20:54] <h3sp4wn_> Its a solution to a non existant problem
[20:55] <h3sp4wn_> and adds another layer
[20:55] <DanaG> I like using onboard audio.  My IM buddy notification sounds go there, too.
[20:55] <Paladine> 1 set of speakers <> near infinite number of systems
[20:55] <DanaG> And the "clone" thingy is useful for watching stuff with friends.
[20:55] <Paladine> speakers sue power
[20:55] <Paladine> ergo pulseaudio is more environmentally friendly
[20:55] <Paladine> s/sue/use
[20:56] <h3sp4wn_> You can send stuff to different speakers without pulseaudio
[20:56] <Paladine> over a network?
[20:56] <Paladine> with what?
[20:57] <h3sp4wn_> I can do that with NX
[20:57] <h3sp4wn_> But I ment just locally
[20:57] <Paladine> my media server is not "local"
[20:57] <Paladine> it is only 2 foot away from local but it still isn't local
[20:58] <h3sp4wn_> My NX server is a vps on another continent
[20:58] <Assid> err anyuoneknow any client for vpn connection over pptp ?
[20:58] <h3sp4wn_> poptop ?(or is that the server)
[20:58] <Paladine> its also horribly inefficient as a sound server
[20:58] <Paladine> NX is designed for x forwarding iirc?
[20:59] <Paladine> so thats a huge waste of bandwidth for just audio
[20:59] <h3sp4wn_> Its like citrix its pretty decent for both
[20:59] <Assid> h3sp4wn_: server
[21:00] <Paladine> assid, openvpn?
[21:01] <h3sp4wn_> Paladine: I don't use it for just audio but I guess I could
[21:01] <Assid> Paladine: pptp !
[21:01] <Paladine> assid, thats why I used a question mark
[21:01] <Adys> Is it hard to downgrade from ubuntu 8.04 back to 7.10?
[21:02] <Adys> I got a 7.10 install atm, and Im thinking about testing the 8.04, was waiting for the sound problems to be fixed
[21:02] <Assid> oh
[21:02] <Assid> well i need pptp
[21:03] <h3sp4wn_> what does apt-cache search pptp say
[21:04] <h3sp4wn_> looks like - networkmanager-pptp
[21:04] <h3sp4wn_> or pptp-linux
[21:05] <Jewfro-Macabbi> anyone else have gnome go wonky?
[21:07] <tino> wonky?
[21:07] <Jewfro-Macabbi> right click doesn't function properly
[21:07] <Jewfro-Macabbi> icons on the toolbar will not launch
[21:08] <Jewfro-Macabbi> log out doesn't work
[21:08] <h3sp4wn_> Sure its not a compiz issue not a gnome one
[21:08] <Jewfro-Macabbi> ah
[21:08] <tino> hmm, yes, more or less
[21:08] <hydrogen> probably because of your nickname.
[21:08] <Jewfro-Macabbi> what? my nickname? nor really relevant
[21:09] <Jewfro-Macabbi> is there a way to fix it - remove or disable compiz?
[21:10] <tino> i'm reinstalling to see what package upgrade caused it.
[21:10] <h3sp4wn_> You should be able to just select none form the appearance window thing
[21:11] <Jewfro-Macabbi> I already had - I don't care for the fancy effects
[21:11] <h3sp4wn_> Yeah well I don't think its a compiz issue then
[21:13] <Jewfro-Macabbi> that's right - I changed my graphics card - uninstalled/re-installed the nvidia driver
[21:13] <Jewfro-Macabbi> before the problem occured
[21:13] <tino> I had just done an apha5 install, and after the first upgrade, it showed problems
[21:13] <Jewfro-Macabbi> w/gnome?
[21:13] <Jewfro-Macabbi> it's only in gnome - I'm in fluxbox w/no issues
[21:14] <jsav> hey
[21:15] <Jewfro-Macabbi> shalom
[21:15] <jsav> woo, my dad's jewish. thats pretty cool
[21:16] <Jewfro-Macabbi> lol
[21:16] <jsav> lol
[21:16] <jsav> hey all, im interested in testing pre-release versions of ubuntu. do I have to run the beta versions from an actual hard drive, or can I boot from a flash drive?
[21:17] <h3sp4wn_> You can setup the livecd to boot of a flash drive
[21:17] <h3sp4wn_> I did that with alpha4 as I didn't have a cd drive to hand
[21:18] <Lukasz> hey people I need help upgrading to HardyHeron from Ubuntu
[21:18] <Assid> isnt sudoers more secure than just letting users su - ?
[21:18] <h3sp4wn_> Assid: No
[21:18] <Assid> no?!
[21:18] <Assid> why not
[21:18] <h3sp4wn_> Why would it be
[21:19] <jpatrick> !root
[21:19] <ubotu> Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth... there is no root password. Then you will see that it is 'sudo' that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[21:19] <Assid> right but in general
[21:19] <Assid> whats better/safer ?
[21:19] <Lukasz> I have problems On Ubuntu/Gutsy with fglrx freezing and people say that HardyHeron is fine with fglrx
[21:19] <h3sp4wn_> If they can get physical access then you are fscked anyway
[21:19] <h3sp4wn_> with su they need 2 passwords - sudo only one
[21:20] <Assid> hrmm
[21:20] <h3sp4wn_> There is advantages and disadvantages to each ...
[21:20] <Lukasz> I know that HardyHeron can like crash from time to time since its beta
[21:21] <Lukasz> So what should I do?
[21:21] <h3sp4wn_> What should anyone do ? whatever you want
[21:21] <Lukasz> I found upgrade thing
[21:21] <Lukasz> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades#head-e7f287c730b93116f89de7ea7e05efbe95fa6dd1
[21:21] <Lukasz> Its in the title topic :)
[21:23] <h3sp4wn_> +1
[21:24] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, it's still a bit buggy - but mostly useable
[21:25] <Lukasz> Jewfro-Macabbi Is it possible to play games and chat msn webcam?
[21:26] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, I've had no problems w/most games - I don't use a webcam though - but if kopete, or amsn is working It should also
[21:26] <Lukasz> thnx I only need like for games and webcam chat
[21:27] <Lukasz> Should I update server Jewfro-Macabbi? on hardyHeron?
[21:27] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, you mean point your sources.list to hardy? I used the upgrade cd - so not sure how that works
[21:28] <Lukasz> brb
[21:29] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Can't you also just apt-get dist-upgrade?
[21:31] <Lukasz> Im back Jewfro-Macabbi
[21:31] <Assid> err.. firefox 's gone nuts
[21:32] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, hey
[21:32] <Lukasz> Where can I get the download of HardyHeron Jewfro-Macabbi
[21:33] <h3sp4wn_> Is there satanic ubuntu isos for alpha 5
[21:34] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/
[21:34] <Lukasz> Thank You Jewfro-Macabbi :)
[21:35] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, you are welcome
[21:35] <Lukasz> Jewfro-Macabbi, I need a tutorial for Ati fglrx for HardyHeron
[21:35] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, you can find all the guides for installing particulars in the ubuntu wiki
[21:35] <Lukasz> I would like the Visual Effects to work as well Jewfro-Macabbi
[21:36] <Lukasz> ok thnx Jewfro-Macabbi
[21:36] <Lukasz> :)
[21:36] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, but I think now days you just click 'enable driver", and that's about it
[21:36] <Lukasz> In Ubuntu Gutsy viusla effects don't work that way
[21:36] <Lukasz> So is HardyHeron gonna be free Jewfro-Macabbi ?
[21:37] <Jewfro-Macabbi> that's just enabling the driver - the effects are in compiz
[21:37] <Jewfro-Macabbi> free?
[21:37] <Lukasz> I hope you won't have to buy HardyHeron
[21:37] <Jewfro-Macabbi> oh no no
[21:37] <Lukasz> Like no trail or something like that
[21:37] <Lukasz> ok :)
[21:38] <Lukasz> That saves me a lot of time knowing Visual effects work and fglrs ain't freezing
[21:38] <Jewfro-Macabbi> I'll warn you though - gnome is a bit buggy in hardy right now
[21:38] <Lukasz> ok hehe I live
[21:39] <Lukasz> Im getting the i386 one
[21:39] <Lukasz> Shoud be less buggy
[21:39] <Jewfro-Macabbi> oh that's what I'm running - it's still buggy :)
[21:39] <Lukasz> I have amd athlon by the way
[21:39] <Lukasz> When is it going to be released Jewfro-Macabbi ?
[21:39] <Jewfro-Macabbi> april I think
[21:40] <Lukasz> nice
[21:40] <Lukasz> Im gonna test it for sure
[21:40] <Lukasz> Where canI post bugs Jewfro-Macabbi ?
[21:40] <Jewfro-Macabbi> launchpad - but it comes w/bug report software - if something crashes it gives the option to send the crash report
[21:41] <Lukasz> Im having trouble finding fglrx Alpha 5
[21:42] <Jewfro-Macabbi> what - just fglxr is the ati driver - not the name of the upgrade cd
[21:43] <Jewfro-Macabbi> you install that after
[21:43] <Lukasz> yes Jewfro-Macabbi the fglrx is the driver
[21:43] <Lukasz> I also hope can use Control center for Ati Radeon 200 Intergrated/Motherboard Jewfro-Macabbi
[21:44] <Jewfro-Macabbi> I dunno about that - I don't think it's quite the same as the windows version
[21:44] <Lukasz> Ubuntu/Gutsy works that way
[21:44] <Lukasz> Linux edition
[21:44] <Jewfro-Macabbi> I still wouldn't know - I'm nvidia
[21:44] <Lukasz> oki
[21:45] <Lukasz> the link you gave me for HardyHeron is that alpha %?
[21:45] <Lukasz> the link you gave me for HardyHeron is that alpha 5?*
[21:46] <Jewfro-Macabbi> it's the latest build - so I guess
[21:46] <Lukasz> oki :)
[21:47] <Lukasz> Is there a better mirror Jewfro-Macabbi ?
[21:48] <J-_> Will the Intel GMA X3100 GL960 work in hardy?
[21:48] <Lukasz> I found this http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-5/
[21:49] <Jewfro-Macabbi> Lukasz, that looks good to - maybe that's what you want
[21:49] <Lukasz> Jewfro-Macabbi, I use the torrent link
[21:50] <Lukasz> Cause http is slow
[21:50] <Jewfro-Macabbi> either works - well I'm off - I've the flu I'm going back to bed - good luck
[21:50] <Lukasz> thnx Jewfro-Macabbi :)
[21:50] <Lukasz> I will work on it toomarow :)
[22:05] <nblracer> hey when will kubuntu hardy 5 with kde be relased
[22:06] <nblracer> i ment to say kde 4
[22:07] <nblracer> with
[22:07] <jpatrick> nblracer: there already is a KDE4 CD
[22:07] <nblracer> alpah 5?
[22:07] <jpatrick> nblracer: they're seperate CDs
[22:07] <nblracer> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-kde4/daily-live/
[22:08] <jpatrick> yeah that
[22:09] <nblracer> its not in there
[22:09] <nblracer> look at the struchture of kde 3, there is a release dir.
[22:09] <nblracer> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/hardy/alpha-5/
[22:11] <jpatrick> oh, right, there'll only dailys for KDE4
[22:12] <nblracer> so is that the same?
[22:12] <Rincewind> hi. I just installed hardy and now I can't use aptitude or apt-get. I am behind a proxy. I found a bug regarding this on launchpad but no infos how to solve this. Is there a known workaround?
[22:13] <nblracer> like what is the diffrence between hardy 5 releases of kubuntu 3 and a daily
[22:19] <underwatercow> Can someone please help me? I'm trying to get java working on web pages in 64 bit hardy and I don't seem to be having any luck
[22:20] <underwatercow> I installed the sun-java6-jre/jdk and icedtea-java7-jre/jdk, and the best I can get a gray box on a web site for java apps
[22:21] <h3sp4wn_> Broken for me here as well
[22:21] <h3sp4wn_> (And I think everyone I was told yesterday)
[22:22] <underwatercow> should the sun-java6-jdk and jre work in 64 bit?
[22:23] <Unksi> works at least in sid with netbeans, havent tested on hardy yet
[22:23] <h3sp4wn_> They do but there is no plugin
[22:23] <Unksi> though, java6 doesnt have plugin
[22:23] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_, Unksi: is there any way to fix that?
[22:24] <h3sp4wn_> I dunno I am going to just get a 32 bit firefox
[22:24] <underwatercow> h3sp4wn_: how hard is that to do?
[22:24] <h3sp4wn_> dunnno how I will handle needing a 32 bit gcc-3.3 base though
[22:24] <h3sp4wn_> Its documented but I dunno whether I would use those methods
[22:24] <underwatercow> Why is there no plugin?
[22:25] <Unksi> underwatercow: the gray box? icedtea has plugin, but no idea how to get it work
[22:25] <underwatercow> Unksi: I installed icedtea and that's when it gave me the gray box
[22:25] <h3sp4wn_> well sane operating systems (solaris) only use 64 bit where it matters (i.e not for the browser)
[22:25] <underwatercow> Unksi: think it has anytihng to do with firefox 3?
[22:25] <Unksi> no idea
[22:27] <Unksi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/icedtea-java7/+bug/177514
[22:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 177514 in icedtea-java7 "firefox 64-bit IcedTea java not working." [Medium,Confirmed]
[22:27] <Unksi> theres a bug report for that
[22:29] <h3sp4wn_> I usually get the java plugin working by default I dunno of anything I use that actually needs it though
[22:29] <h3sp4wn_> except the java ssh client I have
[22:30] <h3sp4wn_> (that runs from a webpage)
[22:30] <underwatercow> stupid bugs
[22:32] <underwatercow> looks like there might be a way to turn it into a deb and install it?
[22:33] <h3sp4wn_> I would just set it up in /opt its all statically linked so shouldn't matter
[22:34] <h3sp4wn_> the question is do I want firefox 3 or 2 or granparadiso 3.0b4 or trunk
[22:35] <hydrogen> opera.
[22:36] <h3sp4wn_> Could do I still need the 32 bit java though
[22:36] <h3sp4wn_> I guess I would need the static linked opera
[22:38] <Assid> err whats safer rsa/dsa?
[22:44] <nemo> *sigh* I miss having wine
[22:46] <h3sp4wn_> Assid: rsa
[22:53] <Amaranth> nemo: my wine works perfectly :)
[22:53] <Amaranth> not sure what the bug with the package is but i used that package to build my own patched version (needed for a game I play) and it works fine
[22:55] <underwatercow> My wine doesn't work wither
[22:55] <underwatercow> either*
[22:55] <underwatercow> :(
[23:07] <Kuni> So I've found an issue with Hardy. I have no way to describe, no logs of it, no information of what causes it, other than the symptoms. While annoying it doesn't bug me that much, but I thought I'd let y'all know about it. Every now and then, everything just stops. Period. It's a lot like what happens when linux runs out of RAM, except that my swap is untouched and my ram usage is always less than 50%. Like I said, I have no idea what cau
[23:07] <Kuni> ses it.
[23:07] <nemo> Amaranth: I don't really use it enough to bother with that.
[23:08] <nemo> Amaranth: I wish someone would push out a patched version...
[23:08] <Amaranth> nemo: Well, it's a weekend
[23:08] <ompaul> Kuni, did you try sshing in from a remote box?
[23:08] <nemo> Amaranth: has been about a week
[23:08] <nemo> Amaranth: actually maybe more. 2 ?
[23:08] <Kuni> ompaul: heh, nope. Never done that in my life.
[23:08] <Amaranth> No, I think it has only been a week
[23:08] <nemo> Kuni: do you use a virtual machine?
[23:08] <Kuni> nemo: nope.
[23:08] <nemo> Kuni: also, does the system respond to magic sysrq?
[23:09] <Kuni> magic sysrq?
[23:09] <nemo> hmmm.
[23:09] <Amaranth> Either way, we also just had the alpha 5 release so the repos was in a 'slushy' state
[23:09] <nemo> Kuni: look into it.
[23:09] <Amaranth> meaning mostly frozen :)
[23:09] <ompaul> Kuni, sudo apt-get install openssh-server  << do this and see if you can access it from another machine
[23:09] <nemo> Kuni: can you ssh into it?
[23:09] <Amaranth> and now it's a weekend
[23:09] <nemo> heh
[23:09] <nemo> Kuni: thing to isolate is, is X freezing, or is it a kernel panic
[23:09] <nemo> Kuni: and is it magic sysrq responsive if the latter. and can you get a dump and did anything get logged beforehand and what are your settings...
[23:10] <Amaranth> Kuni: nvidia?
[23:10] <Kuni> well, I don't think it's x. ctrl+alt+f(1-6) does nothing, nor does ctrl-alt-backspace
[23:10] <Kuni> Yes, nvidia
[23:10] <nemo> Kuni: you might want to also see if there is a report on your hardware that will force something like disabling ACPI or similar
[23:10] <Amaranth> Kuni: Aren't driver bugs awesome?
[23:10] <Kuni> heh, it's a driver bug?
[23:10] <nemo> Amaranth: ah. well. that's an easy one to test :)
[23:10] <nemo> stop using nvidia :)
[23:10] <Amaranth> You'll more than likely only see it when compiz is running
[23:11] <Amaranth> So of course compiz get blamed
[23:11] <Amaranth> What happens is compiz gets stuck in an infinite loop so your screen stops updating and your mouse and keyboard are locked
[23:11] <Kuni> that would explain it
[23:11] <Amaranth> But I've had this a couple times and it always gets stuck calling something in the X server or at some random point where it's not really possible for it to be stuck
[23:12] <Kuni> well at least it's already a known bug
[23:12] <nanonyme> tried ssh'ing in from another computer and killing X server, btw?
[23:12] <Amaranth> alt-sysrq-k will kill your X server
[23:12] <nanonyme> ah
[23:12] <Amaranth> assuming it's just X/compiz stuck and not the whole system
[23:13] <nanonyme> (so there *was* a better way. nice)
[23:13] <Kuni> problem with sshing is that I don't exactly have access to any other system (well, my roommate could help, but he went home for the weekend).
[23:13] <Amaranth> sometimes nvidia will take down the whole system either right then or when you kill the X server
[23:13] <Amaranth> this actually happened to me last night, when I killed the X server I ended up with most of my vista wallpaper on the screen and it died
[23:14] <Amaranth> my last boot into vista was a week and 3 restarts ago
[23:14] <Kuni> lol
[23:14] <Kuni> wtf?
[23:14] <Amaranth> i guess it was still in VRAM
[23:14] <Amaranth> this is a laptop and even though i have shut it down in that time once i never pulled the battery
[23:14] <Kuni> That's pretty impressive actually
[23:15] <h3sp4wn_> Not had one problem with this quadro (I guess you really do pay for the fact its tested)
[23:15] <Amaranth> there is another fun bug with nvidia 7xxx series cards (mobile and desktop) and dual core processors
[23:15] <Kuni> well that's me
[23:15] <Amaranth> 20,000 wakeups per second and sluggish 3D, completely randomly
[23:15] <Kuni> GeForce Go 7900GS and a Core 2 Duo
[23:16] <Amaranth> unless you lock your CPU into one speed (lowest or highest)
[23:16] <Amaranth> if you let it do freq scaling this bug happens
[23:16] <Amaranth> the fix is not to restart but completely power off the system
[23:16] <Amaranth> you could also turn one core off but then 3D is still jerky
[23:16] <Amaranth> and then there is the fun blinking
[23:17] <Kuni> oh I have another one (I don't know if I've seen it in hardy yet but it happened in gutsy alot)
[23:17] <Amaranth> which happens if you let the GPU do freq scaling
[23:17] <Amaranth> the fix for that is to switch to VT 1 then switch back to X
[23:17] <Kuni> video is all pink and full of lines. I know that's an nvidia bug, too. Dunno if there's a fix yet
[23:17] <Amaranth> pretty sure the 169 driver fixed that one
[23:17] <Kuni> good
[23:17] <Kuni> cause it was annoying in gutsy
[23:17] <Amaranth> yeah, although it was random
[23:18] <Amaranth> but once it happened you had to restart X
[23:18] <Kuni> not even that worked for me
[23:18] <Kuni> I had to reboot
[23:18] <Amaranth> but then sometimes when it got into the state restarting X would lock the system
[23:18] <Amaranth> I hope nouveau gets something I can run compiz on soon
[23:18] <Kuni> nouveau?
[23:18] <Amaranth> I can already play openarena with full 3d acceleration using nouveau but it is of course buggy
[23:19] <Amaranth> nouveau is an open source driver for nvidia cards
[23:19] <Kuni> heh
[23:19] <Amaranth> right now they have 2D acceleration for every card from NV04 to NV40 (7xxx series)
[23:19] <Amaranth> along with randr 1.2 support, etc
[23:19] <Kuni> we're lucky enough to have a company that makes drivers for linux, but we still need to make our own. :)
[23:19] <Amaranth> and experimental 3D acceleration for NV40 cards
[23:21] <Amaranth> we're making our own for ati too
[23:21] <Amaranth> but they're helping us there
[23:21] <Kuni> i know
[23:21] <Kuni> well,
[23:21] <Amaranth> apparently they assume we'll never reach the performance of fglrx
[23:21] <Kuni> they don't make their own for linux, do they?
[23:21] <Amaranth> they do
[23:21] <h3sp4wn_> And at the end of all that XiG's drivers will still be the best
[23:21] <Kuni> oh
[23:21] <h3sp4wn_> (More interesting to see what they do with the specs than anyone else imho)
[23:22] <Amaranth> XiG?
[23:22] <h3sp4wn_> They have had the best ati drivers for decades
[23:22] <h3sp4wn_> http://www.xig.com/
[23:22] <Amaranth> Those guys that bought a license to get access to the X Consortium then decided they had better start making money and closed off all their stuff?
[23:22] <h3sp4wn_> (but they won't do anything without specs)
[23:22] <Amaranth> ah, yep, that's then
[23:23] <Amaranth> They started out as guys working on open source stuff but in order to get the X Consortium to listen to them they had to buy into in as a company
[23:23] <h3sp4wn_> The fact still remains they make vastly better drivers than anyone else
[23:23] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn_: This I doubt
[23:23] <Amaranth> That'd be Intel
[23:23] <Kuni> hehehe
[23:23] <Kuni> Intel makes ATI drivers? :P
[23:24] <Amaranth> hahahha
[23:24] <Amaranth> The XiG guys only make drivers for the R100 and R200 cards
[23:24] <h3sp4wn_> Amaranth: Nah intel still uses xorg
[23:24] <Kuni> Cause I coulda sworn they hated AMD...
[23:24] <Amaranth> Which ATI gave us specs for long ago
[23:24] <h3sp4wn_> Yes but they wouldn't give specs to anyone for anything more recent
[23:24] <Amaranth> Yeah, I guarantee they don't do better than us there
[23:24] <Amaranth> Because if they don't do anything without specs then they don't have Hyper-Z support
[23:24] <h3sp4wn_> ?
[23:25] <h3sp4wn_> Have you compared the things its like completely different hardware
[23:25] <Amaranth> Hyper-Z is crucial to getting good performance out of those cards because they have such low bandwidth
[23:25] <nanonyme> i've been hearing rumours that the AMD cards they'll be at some point releasing would be open-spec'd though
[23:25] <Amaranth> and with gallium we're going to have drivers that blow everyone else out of the water
[23:26] <Amaranth> nvidia, amd, whatever intel does on vista
[23:26] <h3sp4wn_> Never happened before ever
[23:26] <Amaranth> won't stand a chance
[23:26] <h3sp4wn_> (for those ati cards with specs) - no reason to think its likely to happen now
[23:26] <Amaranth> gallium uses LLVM to optimize shaders on the fly
[23:26] <Amaranth> so you can write really crappy shaders and LLVM will still make them really fast
[23:27] <Kuni> I sure hope that happens. Because I'd love to say that gaming on a linux box has better graphics than windows.
[23:27] <Amaranth> and tuned specifically for your card
[23:27] <Amaranth> and, as i'm sure you know, basically everything is shaders these days
[23:27] <Kuni> "You say linux is bad for gaming? Take THIS"
[23:27] <h3sp4wn_> "everything ?"
[23:28] <h3sp4wn_> Most of what I care about is just opengl
[23:28] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn_: the R600 (Radeon HD) doesn't even had special 2D hardware
[23:28] <Kuni> h3sp4wn_: yup! even models and textures are really just shaders in disguise now.
[23:28] <Amaranth> it's all the 3D engine
[23:28] <Amaranth> Kuni: haha, you know what i mean
[23:28] <Amaranth> that's data
[23:28] <Kuni> I know I know
[23:28] <Kuni> I love being a smartass though.
[23:29] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn_: and afaik on the R600 the fixed function stuff (regular OpenGL commands) will have to be implemented using the shader engine
[23:30] <Amaranth> have you seen OpenGL 3?
[23:30] <Kuni> No, but I've seen the fiasco that was DX10.
[23:30] <Kuni> (so far)
[23:30] <tino> Found itah, it was xserver-xorg-video-ati version 1:6.8.0.1 that was giving
[23:30] <Amaranth> heh, same kind of thing
[23:30] <tino> troubles
[23:30] <tino> 1:6.7.197 is fine
[23:31] <h3sp4wn_> I am more interested in using this gpu as a co processor
[23:32] <h3sp4wn_> If such as cadence can offload stuff to that and make my simulations faster then its worthwhile
[23:36] <h3sp4wn_> underwatercow: you can just put firefox into /opt and java 32 bit (use the .bin) you need LIBXCB_ALLOW_SLOPPY_LOCK=1 in /etc/environment or java won't work