[00:29] <j1mc> nixternal: you still around?  would <ulink url="../../add-applications/C/add-applications.xml">adding applications</ulink> work?  would that cause probs with the translations?
[00:41] <nixternal> still here
[00:42] <nixternal> that is fine j1mc, no translation issues there
[00:56] <j1mc> thanks, nixternal
[01:01] <nixternal> no problemo
[02:18] <sleepster> how would I know which docs need to be updated?
[02:18] <sleepster> I want to write docs
[03:41] <USN1520> hello, joined the mailing list (rwainscott), registered at launchpad, now what?
[17:56] <j1mc> hi all... how would i do a ulink to a subsection of another document?  i'm trying to link to the musicvideosphotos.xml file, section <sect1 id="onlinemedia" status="complete">, subsection <sect2 id="onlinemedia-plugins" status="complete">
[17:56] <j1mc> is that possible?
[18:00] <mdke> yes, it's possible.
[18:01] <mdke> you do <ulink url="path">link text</ulink>
[18:02] <j1mc> i know how to link to a different document: <ulink url="../../add-applications/C/add-applications.xml">Add Applications</ulink>
[18:02] <mdke> right
[18:02] <j1mc> would i just add something like ... add-applications.xml#sectionname>
[18:02] <mdke> yep
[18:02] <j1mc> ok.  thanks.  i'll give that a try.
[18:02] <mdke> but that method you are using causes problems for translations
[18:03] <mdke> if you don't translate the documentation for xubuntu, it will be ok
[18:03] <j1mc> crap.  i asked in here about that yesterday.
[18:03] <j1mc> i was told no.
[18:03] <mdke> ah, I see it
[18:03] <mdke> yeah, that's wrong I'm afraid
[18:03] <j1mc> that it didn't cause translation probs.
[18:03] <mdke> because the url contains "C" so all translations will link to the English version, the url doesn't get translated
[18:04] <j1mc> right.
[18:04] <j1mc> any suggestions?
[18:04] <mdke> how is the documentation viewed in xubuntu?
[18:04] <j1mc> currently in firefox.
[18:04] <mdke> hmm. There isn't a solution
[18:05] <j1mc> if we did it in yelp, then it would work, correct?
[18:05] <mdke> if you ned translations you would probably have to use sed of something to correct the urls for each language
[18:05] <j1mc> there would be a fix, right?
[18:05] <mdke> yelp has a workaround yeah
[18:05] <j1mc> what is the yelp workaround?  an xref link of some sort... ? i think i've seen those.
[18:06] <mdke> documents are registered in /usr/share/gnome/help/documentname, and then links such as <ulink type="help" url="ghelp:documentname#section"> will work
[18:06] <mdke> xref is only for cross references withina  single document
[18:06] <mdke> kde has a similar trick to gnome
[18:07] <mdke> the only other technique would be to use some kind of entity in place of the "C", and define it for each language at the beginning of the document
[18:07] <mdke> we tried that for some time but it threw up all sorts of other problems so we had to jettison it
[18:07] <j1mc> ok...  i'll talk it over with the xubuntu team, and see what they think about the translation issues.  i'm not sure how much xubuntu docs are translated.
[18:08] <mdke> afaik, not much at the moment :)
[18:08] <mdke> at least, in gutsy there aren't any translations that I can see
[18:08] <j1mc> yeah.  i'd hate to have it completely broken for translators, though.  ok.
[18:09] <j1mc> but... getting docs to validate is good, too.  and the team has been resistant to more gnome-based apps.
[18:09] <mdke> what did you mean by the validate part of that?
[18:10] <j1mc> well, ./validate.sh xubuntu/internet/C/internet.xml is throwing up validation errors.
[18:10] <mdke> I think that's a separate issue to the issue of cross-document linking
[18:11] <j1mc> hrm, no... when i correct the cross-document linking, the errors go away.
[18:11] <j1mc> and the new links work in yelp
[18:12] <mdke> I'll explain better
[18:12] <mdke> the document isn't valid because there are broken links
[18:12] <mdke> you need to fix those regardless of what application you use, and regardless of how you fix them...
[18:12] <j1mc> correct
[18:12] <mdke> "linkend" is broken because it is supposed to refer to a section inside the same document as the link
[18:13] <mdke> in that case, there is no section in the internet document with that name
[18:13] <j1mc> right
[18:13] <j1mc> that is how the docs were for gutsy.  :)  i'm just trying to clean them up and get them working.
[18:13] <mdke> yeah
[18:14] <mdke> but it's not like if you leave them as they are, they work for translators
[18:14] <mdke> they are just broken for everyone ;)
[18:14] <mdke> so you might as well at least fix them for english
[18:15] <j1mc> right.  :)  i guess i'll go ahead with that for this release, and then talk with the team about other options for later releases.
[18:15] <mdke> yes
[18:15] <j1mc> we did have someone working on a doc browser similar to yelp... https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-documentation-browser/+branches
[18:16] <mdke> interesting
[18:16] <mdke> if xubuntu isn't going to be translated, we should remove the "pot" files, because they will result in the translators working away on rosetta
[18:16] <mdke> and then translations not getting imported
[18:16] <j1mc> hmmm...
[18:17] <mdke> but if there are going to be translations, I can't think of a solution to the link issue; except for not having links
[18:17] <mdke> or sed
[18:17] <j1mc> i think we were able to do translations before when we just had the desktop guide.
[18:18] <j1mc> it would be a shame to not have translations be possible if this version is going to be available for a longer time.
[18:18] <mdke> I agree.
[18:18] <mdke> well, it would be quite an easy thing to do with sed
[18:19] <j1mc> i could look into it, but i'm not very fluent with sed.
[18:19] <mdke> you build the html for each language, then replace each instance of "/C/" in a document with "/lang/"
[18:19] <j1mc> right
[18:19] <mdke> I am rubbish with sed, but I can help with that
[18:19] <j1mc> if i couldn't get it to work, i'm sure i could find someone to help... yeah.
[18:19] <mdke> we do something similar for help.ubuntu.com, to fix the "ghelp" links :)
[18:19] <j1mc> ah, cool.
[18:20] <mdke> for that, the ghelp links don't work so we need to convert them to regular links
[18:20] <mdke> so, either way, there is no perfect solution
[18:20] <j1mc> would the sed option allow us to keep the pot files (which i know i have to move, btw)
[18:21] <mdke> sure
[18:21] <mdke> I'll certainly help out with this stuff
[18:21] <j1mc> ok.  thanks.
[18:22] <j1mc> i'll continue with getting the links in order for now then... there are still a couple of docs that don't validate, so i want to get that fixed before i keep updating content.
[18:22] <mdke> great
[18:22] <mdke> nice to see xubuntu docs taking off
[18:22] <mdke> do you integrate xfce docs at all?
[18:23] <j1mc> no, we haven't integrated xfce docs, but i'd like to eventually.
[18:23]  * mdke nods
[18:23] <mdke> they are in html too iirc
[18:24] <j1mc> they are shipped with xubuntu.  i suppose that i could just link to them from our own docs.
[18:24] <mdke> if it fits
[18:24] <j1mc> as an additional resource.  they are kind of spotty, though.  and there isn't a single xfce repo for docs.  each app has its own repo.
[18:24] <j1mc> (for docs)
[18:24] <mdke> i see
[18:25] <mdke> is xubuntu pretty good? my computer isn't fast enough to handle ubuntu, I ought to transfer it
[18:25] <j1mc> i like it, yeah.  my computer is pretty new, but i just like how it's more simple.
[18:26] <mdke> I'll give it a go
[18:26] <j1mc> :)
[18:27] <j1mc> ok, well... thanks for your help.  i gotta get ready to head out.  have a good rest of your day.
[18:27] <mdke> u2