lifelessjelmer: can you document what you need from the hook? I can likely do the bzr side trivially00:00
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186422 in bzr "Ability to modify the tree from a pre-commit hook" [Wishlist,Triaged]00:01
lifelessis in-python sufficient00:02
jelmerthe summary should probably be changed to "Add a start-commit hook"00:02
jelmerlifeless: yes00:02
lucasvoI'm having issues with bzr. It doesn't want to work if locales isn't set correctly...00:10
lucasvosee: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57277/00:10
lifelessthats correct; you can set LANG=C etc if you have really broken locales on your machine00:10
lifelessbut to get the correct i18n filename we need locale information00:11
jelmershouldn't it be "locale en_US.UTF-8" rather than "locale enUS.UTF-8" ?00:11
lucasvolifeless: I am using gnome terminal with an ssh session00:11
lucasvoif I set  encoding to western in gnome terminal it works00:12
lucasvoI usually have it on utf-800:12
lifelessjelmer: yeah, I think so00:12
lifelesslucasvo: as long as its set to a valid locale bzr will work fine00:12
lucasvoso that is not a bug.00:12
lifelesslucasvo: we have to recreate the files you commit, with their names, on different operating systems00:13
lifelesslucasvo: some (mac os X) require unicode paths.00:13
lifelesslucasvo: so we have to know the actual unicode path of each file we read from disk00:13
LaserJockwould it be possible to get bzr-svn in the bzr LP PPA?00:14
lifelesslucasvo: and to do that we need to know if you are using 8859-{1,3,...} or utf8 or utf16 or utf7 or whatever00:14
jelmerLaserJock: it's already there00:14
lifelesslucasvo: so yes, it is a _requirement_ that your locale be set up accurately for bzr to work. if its complaining, you have a bug in your locale setup.00:15
LaserJockjelmer: you sure? I don't have it here00:15
jelmera traceback shouldn't be necessary for this error though00:15
LaserJockjelmer: ah, I see the problem, there is a version in -backports that overrides the one in the PPA00:16
jelmerLaserJock: Yes, it's only in feistry, gutsy and hardy though00:16
lifelessjelmer: its being thrown from python's core00:16
lifelessjelmer: we could catch and pretty it up I guess00:17
LaserJockjelmer: gutsy-packports has 0.4.7-1~gutsy1 and the PPA has 0.4.6-1~bazaar1~gutsy100:17
lucasvook, well, I gotta move over to the ubuntu channel and try my luck there. Thanks for the help guys.00:17
LaserJockdang, even if you put in 0.4.7 it'd be a lower version than -backports :/00:18
jelmerLaserJock: what exactly is so problematic about that? in the end, you have the latest version00:20
jelmerlifeless: yeah, that would make sen00:20
LaserJockumm, because I either can't upgrade bzr or I have to remove bzr-svn00:20
LaserJocknot sure why bzr-svn has such a tight dependency, but I'm assuming the maintainer knew what they were doing00:21
jelmerLaserJock: bzr-svn gets very easily broken by bzr API changes00:21
LaserJockso right now I'm not updating bzr/bzr-tools so I don't remove bzr-svn00:21
jelmerLaserJock: ah, that bit is unrelated to the packaging00:22
jelmerI simply haven't released bzr-svn 0.4.8 compatible with bzr 1.2 yet00:22
lifelesstsk tsk00:22
* LaserJock tries to resist a "that's why git is nice" comment ;-)00:23
LaserJockbut instead I'll wait patiently00:23
LaserJockalthough, I'm using bzr-svn because it seems a lot better than git-svn00:29
LaserJockso I should just hold my tongue00:30
jelmerSorry for not being quicker with this00:38
jelmerAlthough I don't see why it would be an immediate problem00:38
jelmerLaserJock: git-svn doesn't have the same level of integration that bzr-svn has so it doesn't use the same range of the API00:40
jelmerLaserJock: if we would make the dependencies of bzr-svn less tight bzr-svn would probably break every other upgrade of bzr00:41
LaserJockjelmer: right, I figured it must be something similar00:42
LaserJockI just wondered if it was a known thing as I've been unable to upgrade bzr for something like a week or so00:42
LaserJockbut it seems that really gutsy-backports is more to blame00:42
jelmerLaserJock: why?00:43
LaserJockbecause -backports has 0.4.700:44
LaserJockI was thinking that the bzr PPA didn't have bzr-svn in it00:44
jelmeryes, but what's problematic about backports having 0.4.7?00:44
lifelessis 0.4.7 released ?00:44
jelmer0.4.7 is compatible with bzr 1.100:45
lifelessLaserJock: actually I think aptitude is to blame; if bzr's ppa has a matching bzr-svn, aptitude should be able to resolve to install that over backports; unless you've got pinning set00:45
jelmerlifeless: ppa doesn't have a more recent version than backports00:45
lifelessjelmer: I know that00:45
LaserJockjelmer: it's just that it means I'm getting bzr from bzr PPA but not bzr-svn00:45
lifelessjelmer: I didn't say more recent; I said matching.00:46
jelmerlifeless: There is no matching bzr-svn for the latest bzr in PPA00:46
lifelessjelmer: there we go :)00:46
lifelessLaserJock: so its really just that bzr-svn has not recently this week yet00:46
jelmerlifeless: Right, but I fail to see how LaserJock is blaming that on backports rather than on me :-)00:47
LaserJockwell, I'm just saying it's nice to get the whole set from the same repo00:47
LaserJockrather than bits from one and bits from another00:47
LaserJockbut of course, in this case, I guess I'd be in the same situation even if I didn't have -backports00:48
jelmerthe version of bzr-svn in backports is newer00:51
jelmer~bzr comes after ~backports00:51
jelmerhmm, no that's not right..00:52
* jelmer gets some sleep before he says more stupid things00:52
LaserJock-backports uses ~gutsy00:52
LaserJockwasn't stupid00:52
LaserJockversioning sucks ;-)00:52
* lifeless waits for 11K unit tests.01:03
lifelesspoolie: if you are touching logging again; I would like to remove logging to disk entirely for tests. Its pointless to write a log when we can introspect it in python; less disk io is good.01:03
ubotuNew bug: #195282 in bzr-loom "new revision spec needed - below:" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19528202:10
lifelessbob2: ping02:13
lifelesshows your nicer-error patch coming? I just got forcibly reminded of it :)02:15
poolielifeless: i'm not at present but will try to remember that02:26
poolielifeless: quick call sometime02:31
* igc food02:31
lifelesspoolie: sure; now ?02:31
lifelessplease find my house phone for me02:32
lifelessdamn charge02:33
fullermdHoly crud.02:35
fullermdI just watched that talk Bryan Cantrill did at Google about dtrace.  That's insane how deep it gets its fingers into python.02:35
keirso, is loom headed for core? seems like incredibly useful functionality, and is something the other systems don't do as well.02:43
lifelesskeir: well, I think it will get smoothly integrated; I don't know that it belongs in core03:12
lifelessbob2: hows your nicer-error patch coming? I just got forcibly reminded of it :)03:12
pooliethumper: hi?03:12
bob2lifeless: updating tests.blackbox atm03:16
lifelessbob2: cool03:17
bob2lifeless: ooi, is the arg ordering of assertEqual('literal', var) deliberate?03:18
lifelessbob2: our convention is expected, actual03:18
lifelessso 'literal' is what we want.03:18
bob2lifeless: right03:18
thumperpoolie: hi03:35
lifelessbbiab, late lunch time05:17
lifelessspiv: ping06:59
lifelessspiv: is urlutils.escape(user_supplied_url) the right way to get a ascii url ?07:00
jmldid 1.2 change things about when Branches let go of http connections?07:09
lifelessit shouldn't have; why ?07:11
lifelessyou may be seeing pycurl vs non pycurl ?07:11
jmlthere's no pycurl in the stack07:13
lifelesswhat are you seeing happen ?07:13
jmllifeless: the test suite is complaining about how there are sockets in the garbage after certain of our tests that do stuff with http07:14
lifelessyou may have found a bug I guess?07:14
jmlspecifically, a socket._fileobject07:14
lifelessI'd need to look closely in the log; you can do that:O - look for stuff from vila07:14
jmlit's possible that we're holding on to a reference too long or that the gc is doing something stupid07:22
lifelesstry a gc collect?07:22
jmlor both07:23
jmlmy money's on both07:23
jmls/the gc/the calls to the gc/07:23
lifelessone thing that is likely is that persistent connections are better07:23
lifelessthat is, that we won't drop them after every call, I'm sure vila was working on that07:23
lifeless du -sh ../thallow/07:28
lifeless72K     ../thallow/07:28
lifelessthats a shallow branch07:30
lifelesswow slow though07:40
lifeless1m24 to create over sftp07:40
* igc dinner08:31
lifelessok, bzr push is whackily slow ; that or too much data.08:33
lifelessah link fuggage08:46
ubotuNew bug: #195360 in bzr "bzrtools 1.2 in feisty ppa: broken depends on bzr" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19536009:01
lifelessmuhahaha it works: ~/source/baz/shallow-branch/bzr log -r -1 http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/test-shallow/309:26
lifelessusing http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/shallow-branch09:26
* bob2 branches09:29
=== weigon_ is now known as weigon
bob2oh that's what all the stackable thing was about09:39
jrydberg_hi guys09:39
lifelessbob2: extremely small branches09:49
lifelesshttp://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/test-shallow/4 has a commit in it09:54
lifelesstotal repo size - 56K09:54
lifeless du -sh public_html/test-shallow/4/.bzr/repository09:54
lifeless56K     public_html/test-shallow/4/.bzr/repository09:54
lifelessbob2: ^09:55
bob2that's quite cool10:18
ProdocGood mornin'10:18
ProdocI'm trying to install the Bazaar Eclipse plugin using the following instructions: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrEclipse/Installation10:19
ProdocAfter selecting the latest version it will try to download the plugin but I get an error that an exception occurred downloading the .jar file10:21
bob2lifeless: is that bluesky or 1.3 material?10:21
Prodocit's only after a couple of retry's that it appears to work10:21
Prodocis this a known issue?10:21
lifelessbob2: 1.3 I hope10:23
mrflipHello, I am just moving over to bzr.  Here is my question.  I'm working on a website, and the project is the main dir site/ with subdirectories srcassets/ (original copies of graphics, etc), meta/ (design notes), utils/ (tools), web/ (the actual site).10:36
mrflipWhen I deploy, I want to only push site/web/ to the server, which was easy with svn10:36
mrfliphow do I do this with bzr?10:36
bob2bzr split would let you split that dir into it's own branch10:40
bob2or you could just not import the others into bzr10:40
bob2but bzr doesn't generally work like svn, where each dir is a nested checkout10:40
mrflip(reading about bzr split now)...  I definitely need all of those dirs versioned... and I need to have (somehow or another) site/* on my dev machine and only web/ on the server.10:43
mrflipso I think I have to move web/ into its own repos, which I can live with... it's tiny compared to srcassets, which I can't afford to pull each time I deploy.10:57
mrflipThanks for the help bob210:57
bob2doesn't have to be it's own repository, just branch10:58
bob2well, depending on how you do it I guess10:58
ubotuNew bug: #195397 in bzr "Bazaar does not follow the Freedesktop XDG Base Directory Specification" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19539711:25
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== CardinalFang is now known as cmiller
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
adwi2jelmer: Could the ability of bzr to use a SVN repository be used to create a branch that used a SVN repository that one could push back into another SVN repository with bzr-svn?13:59
=== adwi2 is now known as awilkins
jelmerawilkins: Yes14:04
jelmerit wouldn't create a copy of the original svn branch in the other svn repository though14:04
jelmerat least, it won't look like a copy to svn14:05
jelmerit will look like one to bzr14:05
awilkinsjelmer: What I essentially want is what SVK does but using bzr, I suppose14:05
awilkinsI have an Eclipse ticket plugin that syncs to SVN14:06
awilkinsBut I'm rapidly leaning toward BZR for the other version control aspects of this project because the branch / merge requirements are rigourous and I'm probably going to end up re-inventing merge tracking if I stick to SVN14:06
awilkinsAlas, the ticket plugin is closed-source (what a dumbass I was to recommend that one...)_14:07
awilkinsAnd doesn't use the geenric Eclipse team sync, as far as I can tell.14:07
awilkinsAh, I shall just have to experiment.14:08
awilkinsI shall be using BZR for dev and testing just because it's so much faster than SVN :-)14:08
awilkinsIt'll save me more time tha it'll take to re-roll things in SVN if I have to.14:08
=== fullermd_ is now known as fullermd
jelmerawilkins: yes, bzr-svn is usable in a svk-like style14:43
jelmerthat's what it was originally designed for14:44
xifis branching and merging with Bazaar less of a headache than it is with Subversion?14:49
edreamleoHello All, this is Edward Ream from the Leo editor14:50
Pengxif: Yes.14:51
Pengxif: Any modern VCS, including bzr, tracks which revisions have already been merged.14:52
Pengxif: Of course, that makes cherrypicking a pain in most of them...14:52
edreamleoIs this the place to ask total newbie questions?14:53
jdongedreamleo: any bzr related question :)14:53
Pengedreamleo: Sure.14:53
jdongor any question you'd want a bzr related answer to :D14:53
edreamleoFirst, let me say I'm excited about moving Leo to bzr.14:53
edreamleoIt will enable much closer cooperation between Leo and IPython.14:54
edreamleoI have been able to get bzr working on XP...14:54
edreamleoBut am having trouble connecting on Linux14:54
xifPeng: if I plan to do lots of branching and merging, would you recommend Bazaar or anything else?14:54
edreamleoI suspect the problem is easily fixed, but I have no idea how to fix it.14:55
jdongxif: I'd definitely recommend some distributed VCS with a 3-way merge algorithm. bzr's defnitely nice for it but it's not the only one14:55
jdongedreamleo: can you describe more what kind of trouble you're having when connecting?14:55
Pengxif: Sure, I'd recommend bzr or anything else that's not cvs or svn. :P14:56
edreamleoI have pull defined as a bzr alias. One moment while I look it up...14:56
xifjdong: yeah, I'm still contemplating whether I want hg, darcs, or bzr14:56
jdongxif: well I think between those 3, the answer all of us in #bzr will give you is obvious ;-)14:57
xiffrom what I've seen, hg has better performance, bzr has more features14:57
jdongxif: I don't think that's entirely true anymore14:57
xif("seen" = "read in online reviews" :-)14:57
jdongxif: recent versions of bzr come quite close in performance, storage size, etc14:57
jdongxif: it is true that older versions of bzr have horrendous performance compared to hg14:57
xifright, before you rewrote some of the Python modules in Pyrex14:58
xifyeah, I think I'll check bzr out first14:58
PengAnd made other improvements.14:58
xifPeng: such as?14:58
jdongxif: and changed on-disk storage format, etc14:58
xifoh, right.14:58
Pengxif: General improvement of the code?14:58
xifnow your storage format is git-like I hear.14:58
PengSorta, yeah.14:58
jdongxif: there's far too many performance tweaks for us to list one by one short of reproducing the changelogs14:59
PengFor me, it's really a toss-up between bzr and hg, but I haven't used anything else (other than svn).14:59
xifnot sure how darcs fits in the comparison, doesn't look like it can compete with hg or bzr on either performance or features.14:59
jdongyeah, my unbiased toss-up would be between bzr, hg, and git15:00
PengI haven't looked into git much.15:00
xifPeng: aren't there features you miss on hg vs. bzr or vice-versa?15:00
edreamleoOoops.  pull is not an alias15:00
Pengxif: Yeah.15:00
jdongxif: bzr's vast array of plugins... seems like there's more of them than for hg15:00
xifI prefer hg and bzr (or even darcs) because Python and Haskell are nice languages.15:00
jdongxif: also, hg is horrible without its smart server IMO15:01
jdongxif: which is a problem if you don't have the access to install hg on the remote system15:01
jdongbzr's non-smart-server performance is quite good with packs15:01
xifjdong: so if I want to stay lightweight (e.g. using the VCS to manage my own project) bzr might be a better choice?15:02
PengAnd even if the performance was poorer, at least it supports dumb servers fully.15:02
edreamleoOk, now I remember, I did a bzr co, not a bzr pull15:02
Peng(Well, it is poor*er*, just not that much worse.)15:02
edreamleoco *is* an alias15:02
PengIf I was smarter, I'd work on SFTP support for hg...15:02
jdongxif: I'd believe so.15:02
jdongPeng: last time I tried dumb HTTP, it didn't work well either15:03
xifOK, thanks.15:03
jdongPeng: and the response I got upstream was "well it's outdated, set up a CGI"15:03
Pengjdong: Heh.15:03
Pengjdong: I didn't know it was outdated.15:03
Pengjdong: I don't know how good it is now.15:03
Pengjdong: I've always had the impression that it doesn't get quite enough love, but I don't know whether it's still good enough.15:04
jdongPeng: well apparently thy are considering oldhttp to be obsolete15:04
edreamleoco is defined as co=checkout bzr+ssh://edreamleo@bazaar.launchpad/~edreamleo/leo-editor/main15:04
edreamleonow when I do a bzr co I get a Python traceback15:04
LeoNerdWho keeps highlighting me? :P15:04
jdongPeng: but I was surprised that they do not support SFTP15:04
Pengedreamleo: "co" is a builtin alias.15:05
Pengedreamleo: (for "checkout")15:05
Pengjdong: I asked once, and mpm mentioned that he wouldn't want to add a dependency on Paramiko or whatever.15:05
edreamleoRight, that's what I was trying to do :-)15:05
edreamleoTrust a newbie to find the ways to crash a program.15:06
edreamleoOk, let me pick another name for co and see what happens...15:06
Pengedreamleo: Are you using bzr 1.2? If not, upgrade; if so, file a bug.15:06
Pengedreamleo: You shouldn't need to co the same branch so often that you need an alias for it...15:06
jdongedreamleo: also, why is the alias necessary? Do you really checkout that branch enough times that you don't want to type it out?15:07
jdongPeng: we're trampling over each other :D15:07
edreamleoI'm using bzr 0.90.015:07
jdongedreamleo: I highly recommend upgrading to the latest15:08
edreamleoIirc I used apt-get (or maybe the synaptic package manage) to get the latest version15:08
jdongedreamleo: what distribution?15:08
edreamleoUbuntu, Gutsy Gibbon15:08
jdongedreamleo: you can either (1) enable backports, or (2) use the bzr PPA15:09
jdongalthough I'm the maintainer of backports, I recommend #215:09
edreamleoWhat's the bzr PPA?15:09
jdongI've got hundreds of requests for updates and I can't keep backports as up to date as fast as the bzr PPA15:09
Pengedreamleo: Bzr's official apt repo thingamabob. https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive15:09
jdongedreamleo: it's an APT repository maintained by the bzr developers15:09
Peng(Though they do have a habit of screwing up bzrtools's dependencies... :P )15:10
jdongedreamleo: it contains the latest bzr packages, plus minus a few days ;-)15:10
jdongPeng: hehe well I'm guilty of doing the same15:10
PengI'm hungry.15:10
jdongbackports is currently on bzr 1.1, though I do intend on updating to bzr 1.2 once Hardy's entire stack is ready15:10
jdongbut backports gives you other cool new packages too ;-)15:11
edreamleoOk, I see bzr-1.2.-1~bazaar2~gutsy1 at the url you gave.15:12
edreamleoAre there installation instructions?15:12
jdongedreamleo: the page should have such instructions15:12
jdongedreamleo: pick Gutsy from the dropdown....15:13
jdongedreamleo: add the "deb" line to Software Sources Manager in system->admin15:13
jdongthe deb-src line is optional15:13
edreamleoI did system->admin->software soucrces...15:17
edreamleoNow I see a dialog, with 5 tabs...15:18
edreamleoWhat's the "deb" line?15:18
jdongelmo: click Third Party Software, then Add15:18
jdonggrr wrong person15:19
jdonghe doesn't need to know how to add sources lines... :)15:19
edreamleoHeh, heh,15:19
jdongin the dialog that pops up, type deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/bzr/ubuntu gutsy main15:19
edreamleodjong: ok, that seemed to work.15:22
edreamleoDo I do an apt-get now?  If so, what would I do exactly?15:22
edreamleoNever mind, the latest version now shows up in the package manager.  Doing an update now.15:24
jdongedreamleo: you can pop up update manager or synaptic, check and apply for new updates15:24
edreamleoOk, we have progress...15:29
edreamleoNow we have bzr 1.2.015:29
edreamleoAnd now bzr co (still with the confusing co alias) doesn't crash, it says...15:30
jdongedreamleo: run bzr reconcile and bzr upgrade on your existing branches to bring them to the new faster packs format15:30
edreamleossh: connect to host bazaar.launchpad prt 22: connection refused15:30
edreamleoOk.  bzr reconcile and bzr upgrade made what seem like happy sounds.15:31
jdongedreamleo: bazaar.launchpad.net15:32
jdongunless you're one of those lucky people on the .net domain :D15:32
edreamle1Drat: something weird happened to gaim.15:34
edreamle1gdong: I'll check the url and change the co alias to something else...15:36
jdongedreamleo: yeah the URL is the only problem I see15:36
PengAlso, again, why are you checking out the same thing so often that you need an alias?15:41
datoPeng: bzr provides the alias15:42
edreamle1Peng: my memory isn't the best, so I like to leave bread crumbs around wherever possible.15:43
edreamle1Success: the bad url was the problem15:43
jdongedreamleo: you'd probably want to alias your branch location as a branch15:43
jdongrather than alias the entire co command to one branch15:43
edreamle1Btw, bzr co worked just fine, even with co as an alias15:43
jdongedreamleo: after the initial checkout, you never have to type the branch URL again15:43
jdongjust "bzr up, bzr commit, bzr log" all work inside the branch15:43
jdongso I don't see the point of making the co=checkout branch alias.15:44
edreamle1jdong: you must be right :-)15:44
edreamle1jdong: but what if I wanted to check out another sandbox?  Wouldn't I need to know the url?15:45
PengIs it possbile to checkout or branch a checkout?15:46
jdongPeng: yes15:47
jdongedreamle1: indeed, but you can branch from your existing checkout15:47
jdongedreamle1: or type "bzr info" inside the branch to figure out what URL it was from15:47
edreamle1jdong: Thanks for these tips.15:47
edreamle1Clearly, I don't understand bzr branches yet...15:47
edreamle1Anyway, many thanks for your help.  I'm unstuck.15:49
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-bbl
=== BasicOSX is now known as Basic
Odd_BlokeDoes anyone know anything about http://article.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel/89117 ?18:00
PengOdd_Bloke: No. It's been confirmed as true, but there's still no information.18:02
PengOdd_Bloke: Ask Mark Shuttleworth or poolie?18:03
* Peng shrugs.18:03
Odd_BlokeOK, it's the confirmation that I was looking for.18:03
Odd_BlokePeng: Thanks. :)18:04
PengThe confirmation isn't very useful when I have no idea what it *means*.18:04
PengRMS is replacing poolie as lead developer? Mark Shuttleworth paid them $10,000 to get "GNU" stamped on bzr?18:05
PengOf course, I could do research and see what exactly it usually means, but I'm busy reading about Star Trek.18:05
abentleyPeng: It means nothing in terms of personnel.  It means that GNU will endorse bzr, use it for their own projects, and update Savannah to support it.18:06
PengRight. It's just marketing.18:07
PengI forgot.18:07
abentleyIt does mean that there are certain rules we must follow.  I forget the details at the moment.18:07
Toksyuryelyay bzr ^_^18:07
PengYou said that earlier. :P18:07
ToksyuryelWhat does it mean with regards to launchpad?18:08
abentleyWell, if you're gonna get snotty, I don't have to say anything...18:08
johnnyToksyuryel, nothing afaics18:08
Odd_BlokeThe list of things that have to be complied with is at http://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/18:09
PengI'm only being a tiny bit snotty.18:09
PengAnd that's non-sarcastic.18:09
PengI completely forgot that you explained it earlier.18:09
PengOdd_Bloke: Yikes, 100K of ASCII?18:10
dioclesOdd_Bloke: There's also the GNU Coding Standards, and maybe a few other documents.18:10
Toksyuryelit's not really fair to call it "just marketing", I think that bzr being endorsed by GNU is a pretty damn big deal18:11
* Toksyuryel thinks that it shows just how good bzr is, that they would choose it over other things out there :) it also grants a lot of additional credibility to the project18:13
dioclesPeng: http://www.gnu.org/help/evaluation.html#whatmeans would seem to answer your questions, but I realise Star Trek is important.18:13
ToksyuryelStargate is better~ *hides*18:15
PengToksyuryel: What about Firefly?18:15
johnnythey're all dumb :)18:15
abentleyI'm not aware of any direct effects on Launchpad, though it does turn Savannah into a Launchpad competitor.18:15
johnnythat should solve it..18:15
johnnya very very poor one18:15
ToksyuryelI never watched firefly, I heard good things about it though18:15
Toksyuryelabentley: my concern is more related to the issue of the fact it's not a free/open project (yet)18:16
PengToksyuryel: Same here. I'm afraid that whenever I do finally watch it, it won't live up to my expectations thanks to the hype. :\18:16
johnnyToksyuryel, has no effect on bzr18:16
Pengdiocles: Thanks. I have 550 tabs open!18:16
johnnylaunchpad is the only reason i'm considering using bzr seriously18:17
johnnywhich is upsetting, since it's not free18:17
Toksyuryelthere's a lot of great things about bzr completely unrelated to launchpad...18:17
dioclesjohnny: What are you comparing bzr with?18:18
* Toksyuryel personally considers it to be the best vcs of them all, period ^_^18:18
PengThe GNU documents mentions using an @gnu.org address for bugs, and hosting on gnu.org. What is bzr going to do?18:18
johnnyi mean above and beyond git,mtn,hg18:18
johnnyPeng, the docs mention that18:18
johnnythere's notice you put on there18:18
Toksyuryelbzr is way way better than git and hg. not sure what mtn is but bzr is probably better than that too :)18:19
johnnyhow so?18:19
johnnyhow is it better than git or hg?18:19
johnnyother than being much easier to use than git :)18:19
PengToksyuryel: Monotone.18:19
johnnyhg is not really in my consideration tho18:19
Toksyuryelthere are documents on the website that do a way better job explaining than I ever could18:19
PengToksyuryel: Kinda inspired git and hg, but not very popular. Slow.18:19
johnnyi've read them Toksyuryel18:19
Toksyuryeleww, ok, bzr is definitely better than that XD18:19
PengToksyuryel: Gaim/Pidgin used it, last I checked.18:20
johnnyand i wasn't convinced18:20
Toksyuryelwell I was18:20
Pengjohnny: Why not hg?18:20
johnnybzr has launchpad, hg doesn't bzr has the potential to be tested across 1000s of projects18:20
* Toksyuryel is even considering using it to version his entire system, but thinks he may need a bigger hard drive for that18:20
johnnyhg has a few, and moz..18:20
johnnybut bzr will always have the edge due to launchpad18:21
PengToksyuryel: Don't do that.18:21
johnnysince it mirrors everything in bzr18:21
PengToksyuryel: I do; it sucks.18:21
johnnyToksyuryel, bzr doesn't handle privs18:21
johnnyat least not last i heard..18:21
Toksyuryelyeah that could be tricky...18:21
PengOh, that's true.18:21
johnnyyou need seperate sfotware18:22
dioclesjohnny: The other advantage over git might be Windows support. But that never bothered me.18:22
james_wjohnny: there will hopefully be a plugin to handle that at some point.18:22
PengNone of the popular VCSes handle more than the exec bit.18:22
PengI don't version my whole system, just my homedir.18:22
johnnyPe is correct18:22
PengAnd I'm reducing that today.18:22
james_wfor now you can check out etckeeper, which there is a bzr plugin for.18:22
johnnyerr Peng is correct18:22
* Toksyuryel has never considered windows support to be a feature, rather finds it to distract people from the features that matter18:22
johnnyi'm concerned about windows support18:23
johnnybut git is mostly used by the hardc0re18:23
johnnyand the speedsfreaks18:23
PengToksyuryel: (Especially since Windows support is a rough spot in both bzr and hg; at least case-insensitive file system stuff. Cough.)18:23
dioclesI use git.18:23
Toksyuryeldon't the benchmarks say bzr is faster than git?18:23
johnnytry mirring the kernel and proving it18:23
johnnywith full changes18:23
Toksyuryeldependant on the size of the project of course; they are working on that part :)18:23
johnnyor moz for that matter18:23
* diocles tries to work out whether he's "hardc0re" or a "speedsfreak".18:24
johnnyToksyuryel, i know what they are working on :)18:24
johnnyi really really like in mtn how revisions are not dependent on a branch18:24
johnnya branch is just a cert on a revision18:24
ToksyuryelPeng: I find windows support to be a waste of time and resources that could better be spent improving the software =/18:24
johnnyToksyuryel, you're wrong18:24
johnnymore devs come because of windows18:24
johnnyand even more users come18:25
Toksyuryelthey should switch to a real OS =/18:25
johnnyand that is?18:25
johnnydoes it run autocad? or photoshop? :)18:25
johnnythis is sad for me to have to say this :(18:25
johnnybut it's true18:25
Toksyuryelthat's not the fault of the OS18:25
johnnysure, but the OS doesn't mean much if it can't run apps18:26
Toksyuryeland photoshop is easily replaced besides18:26
johnnyno it isn't18:26
jdongToksyuryel: no it's not...18:26
johnnygoogle is spending alot of money on wine support now tho18:26
ToksyuryelGIMP, inkscape, probably some other stuff out there too18:26
johnnythey are all weak18:26
jdongToksyuryel: you've got to be kidding18:26
Odd_BlokeGuys, arguing about why people should switch from Windows in #bzr is kinda OT...18:26
* Toksyuryel stops then18:26
jdongToksyuryel: that's like saying gwbasic roughly replaces C18:26
jdongbut at any rate, if you don't care about Windows, then windows support is not something to look at in your VCS of choice :)18:27
johnnyi've used linux only on the desktop for 5 years now Toksyuryel .. and even i can't say those apps have proper replacements :)18:27
jdonglikewise. I've used Linux for a few years and developed on it for a few less than that18:28
jdongI can say FOR ME I've found Linux replacements18:28
jdongbut I can't say for every application there is a Linux replacement18:29
dioclesTut, tut, it's GNU/Linux. Don't you know bzr is a GNU project now?18:29
jdongthat's completely nonsense18:29
jdongdiocles: no it's not, I use a BSD userland ;-)18:29
PengWho needs Photoshop; I can write JPEG by hand. With a magnet, up hill in the snow all three ways.18:29
dioclesjdong: I bet you don't. :)18:29
jdongdiocles: how do you know? :)18:29
johnnyit is possible tho18:29
johnnyor the opposite ..18:30
dioclesjdong: Because Ubuntu doesn't have a BSD port.18:30
jdongdiocles: and that's where you start assuming :)18:30
jdongbut ANYWAY, still OT :)18:31
johnnyunless bzr won't run on that combination.. :)18:31
jdongjohnny: A few of us here have independently got bzr running on IronPython18:31
Toksyuryelbzr ought to run on any POSIX-compliant system... I think18:31
jdongToksyuryel: more than that :)18:32
* jdong feels sorry for all the bzr devs who will be reading this scrollback18:32
johnnyjdong, but then the boycottnovell guys will come after you !18:33
abentleyjohnny: Bzr handles only the execute bit, not other privs.18:34
johnnyabentley, i know :)18:34
abentleyOh, I thought you didn't because of how you phrased it.18:34
johnnysupporting windows is difficult for sure :(18:35
Toksyuryelhmmm... The requested URL /bzr.1.2/en/release-notes/NEWS.html was not found on this server.18:35
abentleyjohnny: In most DVCses, branches link to revisions, and the revisions themselves are not tied to any particular branch.18:37
johnnymaybe it's not as exposed in bzr in the docs then18:38
johnnyi read over the user guide , and that other one18:38
james_wToksyuryel: there is a missing symlink, someone reported it to the list already, but it doesn't seem to have been added yet18:40
VadiI'm trying to 'push' a branch online, but I get an 'Not a branch:' error. Is there some specific setup I need to have on my local folder or something?19:07
Odd_BlokeVadi: What cmmand are you running?19:08
Vadi"bzr push bzr+ssh://vperetokin@bazaar.launchpad.net/~vperetokin/vadi-mapper/main"19:09
Odd_BlokeVadi: That suggests that you're not in the branch when running the command.19:10
VadiAhah. Now what exactly does that mean? I'm in a folder on my laptop, that I want to upload the contents of on the branch (new to this)19:10
Odd_BlokeVadi: OK, you'll need to use 'bzr init' to create an initially empty branch.19:12
Odd_BlokeThen you'll want to use 'bzr add' to add all of the files in the directory to the branch.19:12
Odd_Blokes/branch/working tree/19:12
Odd_BlokeThen you'll want to commit the changes in your working tree (i.e. everything) to a revision of the branch, using 'bzr commit -m "Initial import."'19:13
Odd_BlokeThe part in "s is the commit message, which will show up in the log of the branch.19:14
VadiWhere do I specify the branch I want to commit to?19:16
VadiI got the bzr init'd and add'd19:16
VadiAhah, okay. I think I got it.19:19
VadiI got a exceptions.AssertionError :(19:20
abentleyVadi: please copy the traceback into a pastebin19:23
abentleyubotu: paste19:23
ubotupastebin is a service to post multiple-lines texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic)19:23
Vadiabentley - here you go: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57363/19:24
VadiI might have screwed up my ssh key, I'm not entirely sure.19:24
abentleyI was just about to suggest doing sftp manually.19:25
abentleyJust to make sure it's set up properly.19:25
abentleyAlso, you might consider upgrading to 1.219:25
VadiHow? To both suggestions..19:26
VadiI'm on Ubuntu 7.10.19:26
jdong# Implementation. Implement your chosen code design in Java. You might find that you want to make changes to your design. You are free to do this, but should record the changes so it is clear what the original design was and what changes you made to it.19:28
jdong# --> Test. Run the staff test suite using the test framework provided. If your program fails any of the tests, correct the problem, and rerun the test suite. Create at least three additional test cases of your own, that demonstrate the robustness of your Multipart implementation.19:28
jdongstupid paste button19:28
=== andrea-bs is now known as andrea-bs_
=== andrea-bs_ is now known as andrea-bs
jdongI meant to paste https://launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive19:29
abentleyVadi: for the first: "$ sftp vperetokin@bazaar.launchpad.net"19:35
abentleyFor the second, http://bazaar-vcs.org/DistroDownloads19:36
awilkinsRandom offtopic question : recommend a home office colour laser (scanner optional)20:27
lifelessno idea20:36
ubotuNew bug: #195560 in bzr "version-info {clean} doesn't work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19556020:41
blueyedwow... "bzr revert" after "bzr add" deletes files?? 8/21:18
LaserJockrevert says "go back" so yeah21:20
blueyedwell.. "only" the symlinks..21:20
blueyedLaserJock: nah.. I wanted to undo the add.. not delete files that were already there...21:20
mwhudsonthere should be backup files .~1~ or whatever21:21
blueyedbug 8754821:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 87548 in bzr "bzr add and revert on symlink deletes symlink" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8754821:21
blueyedmwhudson: nope.. /etc/alternatives is now nearly empty..21:21
mwhudsonLaserJock: i finally started the openbabel import btw21:21
mwhudsonblueyed: oops!21:21
lifelessblueyed: this is the difference between 'undo' and 'revert' - undo needs to know exactly what sequence of things has occured21:22
LaserJockmwhudson: awesome, thanks21:22
lifelessblueyed: revert just puts them back the way they were21:22
lifelessyou undo an action, and revert to a state21:22
blueyedlifeless: the way they were? e.g. /etc/rc?.d/ wasn't empty before "add". but it's after "revert".21:23
blueyedI just did "bzr init; bzr add;", thought "well, add some ignores first", so "bzr revert" and oooops..21:23
blueyedlifeless: there's no "good" undo, is there?21:24
lifelessblueyed: no we don't have an undo, I'm not aware of a vcs that has one - its actually quite unwieldy. Anyhow, that said - I think its a bug that we didn't make backup files called .~1~ of each symlink21:26
lifelessblueyed: (unless we did ?)21:26
blueyedlifeless: no.. also not for empty directories like ".common/vim/.svn/props/"21:27
blueyedso, where's my backup of "/etc"? :/21:27
datolifeless: uh, if `bzr add regularfile; bzr revert` does not remove/rename regularfile, why would it not behave the same for symlinks?21:28
blueyeddato: exactly my thinking.. (including empty dirs)21:28
Vad1abentley: Hiya21:28
abentleyVad1: Hi.21:30
* abentley is inclined to fix revert so that it always deletes files, thus not leading people down the garden path.21:31
shagbaglifeless, I'm running the command: bzr co http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~awn-extras/awn-extras/trunk awn-extras-bzr -r 34721:31
shagbagand it's taking a LONG time to 'transfer'21:31
Vad1abentley: I'm still having that error with bzr. Do you know if there's a .deb of the 1.2 version? I'm running 0.9 right now.21:32
abentleyYes, there is.  Did you see the link I posted?21:33
Vad1No, but it somehow was opened in firefox already. I was wondering if I was dilusional21:33
Vad1(how did you do that though?)21:34
datoabentley: so how does one undo an add before commit? rm?21:36
Vad1A bit better this time, but still not quite there: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57373/21:36
abentleydato: Yes.21:36
lifelessblueyed: there isn't one, because revert was doing what it is designed to do. That said,  I think we can provide more of a safety net21:37
abentleyAlthough, I call it "remove", because it's not the same thing as rm.21:37
blueyedabentley: and how would you undo an "add"?21:37
lifelessabentley: we can define merge-hashes for links and dirs too21:37
abentleyblueyed: see above.21:37
lifelessshagbag: its in knit format, knit format is slow.21:37
abentleylifeless: Not for dirs.21:37
Vad1I did paste the public ssh key in my ubuntu profile. Not sure what can be wrong - but then again, I couldn't find clear instructions on how to do all of this either.21:37
lifelessblueyed: 'bzr rm --keep --new'21:38
blueyedah.. I see..21:38
lifelessabentley: yes, we can - sha1('\x00'.join(sort(child.name for child in dir._children)))21:38
blueyedbut I expect "rm" to be more bad to my data than "revert"..21:39
ryanakcaIs it possible to commit in someone's name (other than going sudo -u jsmith bzr commit -m "ponies") ?21:39
abentleyblueyed: So call it "remove" instead.  both work.21:39
lifelessryanakca: sure, long as they are not expecting gpg signed commits ;)21:39
lifelessryanakca: also see --author IIRC21:39
blueyedfor me, the previous state is "unknown" for those symlinks, empty dirs (and files) in general.21:40
ryanakcalifeless: okies, thanks :)21:40
lifelessyes, --author21:40
lifelessto commit21:40
abentleylifeless: I don't think that's a clear indicator of whether the directory was automatically created.21:40
lifelessabentley: merge-hashes records the hash value of a file that we write to disk, IIRC ?21:41
lifelessabentley: so if we create a directory with 'foo' 'bar' and 'baz', we can look at disk and see that it actually has 'foo', 'bar', 'baz', 'baz.pyc' and conclude that its been altered since.21:42
abentleyTechnically, yes.  But the connotation is that the content was generated automatically, not subject to user info.  For example, even though shelf rewrites files, it doesn't update merge-hashes.21:43
blueyedlifeless: so it's at least a bug that there are no ~1~ files, yes?21:43
lifelessblueyed: I think its arguable that that is the case.21:44
lifelessabentley: got you21:44
Vad1What does a "Permission denied (publickey)." in bazaar mean? It21:45
Vad1It's not exactly unique, so google doesn't help21:45
lifelessVad1: thats being reported by ssh, not bzr21:46
TFKyleVad1: if it's while pushing/pulling to sftp it's likely that the other end requires ssh public key authentication and bzr/your ssh client didn't provide any (or you didn't get your passphrase right possibly)21:46
shagbaglifeless: thanks.  the command worked tonight (unlike last night).  I'm trying the21:46
shagbaglifeless: thanks, it's downloaded (unlike last night) and compiling now.21:47
Vad1TFKyle: Okay, how can I do it without the keys?21:47
Vad1TFKyle: I can't find clear instructions that work anywhere for uploading. The ones I'm going by right now are here (http://ddaa.net/blog/launchpad/bzr-hosting)21:47
lifelessshagbag: contact the branch owner and get them to upgrade with bzr 1.0 or newer21:48
TFKyleVad1: you'd have to configure the server to accept things other than public keys, with openssh have a look at /etc/ssh/ssshd_config21:48
lifelessshagbag: it will massively improve performance21:48
Odd_BlokeVad1: If you're trying to upload to Lauchpad, you need to have an SSH key set up.21:48
TFKylebut yeah, with lp you need a public key21:49
Vad1Okay, I do have one in my profile in launchpad21:49
Vad1Do I need one on my laptop too or?21:49
Odd_BlokeVad1: When you create a public key, it generates a private key and a public key.  You should have uploaded the public key.21:49
Odd_BlokeVad1: If you haven't created one on your laptop yet, then yes.21:50
Vad1Right, I uploaded the public key21:50
Vad1What to do with the private one?21:50
LaserJockit should be in ~/.ssh/21:50
Odd_BlokeVad1: It should have been generated in the correct place, IIRC.21:50
Vad1Any specific file name?21:50
Vad1I did it on my server :/21:51
LaserJockI have a id_dsa in ~/.ssh/21:51
LaserJockif you have that you can scp that over21:51
blueyedWouldn't it be possible to detect a "revert" before any commit, so that no files would get deleted? (I've read in bug 193980 that the problem only is too less information to have "proper" "undo")21:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193980 in bzr "revert after add destroy my working tree" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19398021:53
ubotuNew bug: #195578 in bzr ""bzr revert" does not backup symlinks and empty directories" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19557822:00
lifelessabentley: ping22:35
abentleylifeless: pong22:35
lifelesswhats a good test to crib from that works with public locations?22:35
lifelessI want bzr push --shallow to default to looking for the parent branches public location22:36
abentleyMaybe a merge directive test?22:36
lifelessk I'll look thanks22:37
igclifeless: I'm wondering whether we ought to put an upper bound on the auto-repacking22:40
lifelessigc: we should fix the bugs marked 'pack'22:40
igcin my OOo import, the repack of 10 10,000 packs has been going for 14 hours now22:40
igcand in still stage 2/522:41
lifelessigc: you are at 100K revisions?22:41
igcthere's 300,000+ just in trunk22:41
igcthe full rpeo is closer to 500,00022:41
igcI wondering whether 10,000 packs is big enough and beyond that we should only manually pack22:42
lifelessso, thats very slow. We should fix it being slow22:44
lifelessigc: with 10 packs you have 10 times the latency problem of 1 pack.22:44
lifelessigc: please get a lsprof of it.22:45
lifelessigc: hint: you can cp -a the repository while pack is active22:45
lifelessigc: then you can break lock and run 'pack' manually to lsprof it22:45
lifelessigc: so I don't think number of things to rearrange is the issue; because - its exponential backoff22:46
lifelessigc: the new pack this 10x10K operation creates will not be altered again at all by bzr during your import22:46
lifelessigc: clearly though we have a performance problem in the pack logic and we should fix that22:47
igcand memory pressure as well22:48
igcI think it's lack of memory (4G) that is causing the issue22:48
igcbut 4G isn't 'lack of memory'22:48
lifelesspack streams data22:48
lifelessit holds two things: the index, and an individual delta in memory at a time22:49
lifelessit uses a readv interface; a bug there would cause very high memory pressure22:49
lifelessand it buffers writes crudely; a bug there could lead to high memory pressure if you have many big deltas22:50
lifeless(but many small deltas will be fine)22:50
lifelessit could be the index builder22:50
igcthanks for the info22:51
lifelessit could be the memory pressure of the index22:51
igcI'll go digging later today22:51
lifelessso yeah - backup the repo before it completes so that we can reproduce it22:51
igcshall do so now22:51
lifelessand get a basic handle on whats wrong and I'll help fix that22:51
foomdoes bzr write out profile data even if you interrupt an operation, these days?22:52
lifelessfor instance we may need to start tape-sorting the index we are creating incrementally with very large index sizes22:52
lifelessfoom: maybe; ctrl-\ + a little prodding will let you finish early though :)22:52
lifelessis there a way to do optional strings on an option?23:07
lifeless --reference=bar, with --reference when given defaulting to something e.g. auto:// ?23:07
lifelessI'd like to not have two options (--shallow and --reference=url)23:08
poolielifeless: i see your point but i think it's bad style23:12
spivlifeless: hmm, I don't think so.  How would that disambiguate between "--reference unrelated_argument" and "--reference bar"?23:12
poolieconfusing when people say --option SOMETHING23:12
pooliewot he said23:13
lifelessthis has already occured to me23:13
lifelessbut I still thought I'd ask23:13
ProdocI accidentally added some folders I didn't want to track using 'bzr add' (windows xp), now when I try to remove those folders using 'bzr remove <folder name>' I get an error message: 'bzr: ERROR: Can't safely remove modified or unknown files:', can someone explain what's going on here? Is this a bug or should I exclude the folders in a different way?23:41
lifelessbzr rm --new --keep23:44
lifelessbzr help rm23:47
Prodocheh, of course, thank. I'm ashamed to admit that I'm too much used to GUI's :-$23:48
Prodocit worked, cheers lifeless23:49
lifelesspoolie: np23:57

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