ogra_cmpcevand, eventually, yes ... i cant tell if that means hardy though, thats a RichEed decision, afaik he wants something to demo an edu desktop00:48
evandogra_cmpc: ok, thanks00:49
=== ogra_cmpc_ is now known as ogra_cmpc
* ogra_cmpc just learned that the lenovo page kills classmates 01:04
LaserJockogra_cmpc: yucky01:06
ogra_cmpcand i didnt even get to see any pics of the new lappie ...01:08
bobwhoopsjoin #gsoc01:48
=== fabbione is now known as thegodfather
superm1slangasek, did you ever manage to get those changes merged into cdimage?02:44
slangaseksuperm1: now I have... :)03:22
superm1slangasek, yay :)03:23
superm1slangasek, so with space being a commodity, would it be feasible to only ever keep one image of ours at a given time?03:23
superm1slangasek, or will we have to wait until cdimage gains more hard drives?03:24
slangaseksuperm1: currently the etc/purge-days script has a single rule for all daily alternate images; I've made a policy change already that gives us a little more space though, so mythbuntu should fit in ok03:25
superm1slangasek, wonderful :)03:25
superm1slangasek, we're not going to explore doing the livecd via livecd-rootfs for some time, to that will work great03:26
TheMusosuperm1: You guys are getting images done via cdimage for mythbuntu? Awesome!03:34
superm1TheMuso, at least for an alternate disk (which we have needed for ages) :)03:34
TheMusosuperm1: Again, awesome!03:35
Hobbseeiwlwifi fixes!04:33
TheMusoHobbsee: I can only guess that they benefit you.04:33
RAOFHobbsee: As in: "please don't fill up /var/log with gigabytes of debug spam"!04:33
RAOFThings get really wierd when there's 0 bytes free on /, /tmp and /var :)04:34
ScottK2Hmmm. Spam.04:34
=== _Apollo_2 is now known as _Apollo_
HobbseeRAOF: yeah, that too.  the led, in particular04:35
RAOFHobbsee: My LED has been working?04:36
Hobbseeipw or iwl?04:36
RAOFipw doesn't work anymore, right?  I don't have the non-free daemon anymore, certainly.04:38
RAOFOr whatever it was keeping ipw in -restricted.04:38
RAOFI suppose it depends on what you mean by "working".  My LED is _on_.  It doesn't seem to turn off when I hit the killswitch, though :)04:39
RAOFI've just never noticed this, because I treat the killswitch as basically a way to accidentally break my networking.04:40
StevenK"accidentally" ? :-)04:40
RAOFIt's in a place where I *can* accidentally brush against it.  Or removing the laptop from a bag, or...04:40
HobbseeRAOF: ah right.  mine's always off, killswitch or not04:40
RAOFHobbsee: Yay for crazy non-standard laptops.  Standards are for _pussies_!04:41
pwnguinits a bit sad though04:49
pwnguiniwl is a much bigger powertop offender than ipw04:49
RAOFpwnguin: I haven't noticed that, but then the nvidia driver is a big powertop offender, too.04:50
pwnguini turned off the nvidia driver04:51
pwnguinbut check out the top offender04:51
pwnguin59.1% (148.6)      <kernel IPI> : Rescheduling interrupts04:52
RAOFI like compiz, when I'm not using nouveau.04:52
pwnguinis nouveau usable for 2d?04:52
pwnguini just use nv04:52
RAOFpwnguin: Nouveau is *extremely* usable for 2d.04:53
RAOFIt's basically as fast or faster than the blob for 2d, at least on my chip.04:53
RAOF(Also, has better dual head support).04:53
pwnguindouble neat04:53
pwnguinthe twenty thousand dollar question: xrandr rotations04:54
RAOFand 90, and 270.04:54
RAOFAs far as I can tell.04:54
pwnguinhave you tried 180?04:54
RAOFNo, I don't think so.04:54
RAOFOh, actually, yes I have.04:54
RAOFProbably.  I played around with "mirror x", "mirror y", "mirror xy" at one point.04:55
RAOFSomewhere in that playing I probably managed a 180 rotation :)04:55
pwnguinnot quite the same04:56
RAOFTry it yourself, then :)04:56
pwnguinim considering it04:56
RAOFI can even play OpenArena on nouveau :)04:57
pwnguini'd be more interested in the crack attacks and gunroars04:57
* StevenK remembers submitting debugging information about his card to the nouveau guys on RAOF's insistance04:57
pwnguinRAOF: does your ppa still have nouveau up for testing?04:58
RAOFI should work out the module-assistant magic required to make this useful for Debian and push it into experimental.04:58
RAOFStevenK: And in return, the randr12 code probably properly handles your chip :)05:01
StevenKRAOF: Heh. Come back to me when Nouveau is in Ubuntu and handles WoW, and I'll switch :-)05:02
RAOFStevenK: I've tried, it doesn't quite yet :P05:02
StevenKRAOF: It doesn't run, or it looks wierd?05:04
RAOFIt won't be in Ubuntu until DRI2 is stable, probably.05:04
RAOFStevenK: Doesn't run.  There's still a bunch of unimplemented stuff in gallium, would you believe it? :)05:04
RAOFAlthough I also had to fight with my additional 32bits, so it's possible (but unlikely) that an i386 install would have better luck.05:06
pwnguinwow is overrated05:07
TheMusopwnguin: Watch out!05:07
* RAOF hopes DRI2 will make Ibex. DRI2 not only brings back kittens killed by god, it also procs world peace (5% chance).05:09
pwnguinso did ati actually release 3d docs?05:12
toresbeIs that the one after Heron?05:14
TheMusotoresbe: Yes.05:14
toresbeI think there's a painkiller in Norway named Ibex05:14
toresbeno, that's Ibux, probably.05:15
toresbehttp://www.ibextours.com/ though.05:15
StevenKtoresbe: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2008-February/000383.html05:16
=== lando_ is now known as lando
dholbachgood morning07:03
asacmorning dholbach07:04
dholbachhey asac07:05
warp10Good morning!07:08
pittiGood morning07:09
thekornhi dholbach, where can a file bugs/suggestions related to this 5-a-day tool?07:22
thekornhttps://edge.launchpad.net/five-a-day/+filebug seems to be disabled07:23
dholbachthekorn: should work now - thanks for letting me know07:25
thekorndholbach, yes, works, thanks07:25
dholbachasac: http://daniel.holba.ch/ubuntu/ic/ does not load up in hardy, but does in gutsy07:35
pittilool: WDYT about the updated packages in bug 186647 ?07:37
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186647 in pigment "promote to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18664707:37
asacdholbach: didn't i look at that once?07:38
asacdholbach: i think it was illegal html ;)07:38
dholbach"illegal html"07:39
dholbachEXPECT THE POLICE! :)07:40
asacdholbach: close the script elements properly07:44
asacor use XHTML DTD :)07:44
asace.g <script type='text/javascript'></script>07:46
dholbachasac: OK, seems to be the script tag :)07:48
Mithrandirasac: it doesn't handle <script type='text/javascript' /> correct either, even with doctype = XHTML07:50
asacMithrandir: is |'| legal in xml?07:50
Mithrandirasac: well, it was "", iirc.  I don't have that bit of code in front of me here.07:51
Mithrandirasac: I ran it through a validator and it didn't complain, at least.07:51
asacMithrandir: scary. you didn't file a bug, did you?07:52
Mithrandirasac: no, but I could.07:52
pittislangasek: WDYT about bug 193265 ?07:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193265 in sane-backends "FF exception request: update sane-backends to 1.0.19 final" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19326507:52
asacMithrandir: please do you if you can reproduce with latest ffox 3 ... and attach the testcase07:53
Mithrandirasac: 'k07:53
asacMithrandir: we are still pretty good at forwarding bugs upstream and getting things fixed07:54
asac ... though time runs low07:54
slangasekpitti: wanted to finish reading through the upstream changelog, which I don't think I'll get through tonight07:54
asacMithrandir: package "xulrunner-1.9" most likely07:55
pittislangasek: ok, no problem; just wanted to check if it's on your list, thanks07:56
slangasekpitti: yep, definitely; I should be able to catch up on the list of FFe requests tomorrow (Tuesday)... and sooner if other members of ubuntu-release were to help ;)07:57
pittislangasek: I obviously can't approve my own request, but if you need help I can look at others07:57
slangasekI'd appreciate it if you had the time07:58
pittiok, noted07:59
* Hobbsee headbashes quietly08:01
* Mithrandir puts a pillow between Hobbsee's head and the wall08:01
Hobbseehey there Mithrandir!08:03
cjwatsontoresbe: FWIW, if we're going to use a single word to describe the release, we normally use the adjective, not the noun08:30
cjwatsonRAOF: ^-- err, I guess that was really for you08:31
=== rraphink is now known as raphink
pwnguinwhat was the i? idyllic?08:38
cjwatsonpwnguin: please see ubuntu-devel-announce08:39
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
loolpitti: I've poked philn to please commit his elisa/pigment packaging changes for the new upstream release/svn snapshot he mentions; if it takes too long, I'll do them; if you like, I can do a quick upload with only the python 2.5 packaging fixes, but it wont solve the issue you were seeing09:11
ArneGoetjeRiddell: If you use "System Default" as antialiasing setting in KDE, it will probably fall back to fontconfig. However, hinting and antialiasing is not enabled by default in fontconfig.09:23
ArneGoetjeRiddell: the Gnome desktop uses Greyscale (rgba none) and medium hinting as default settings. Question is if we should enable this setting in fontconfig globally... then KDE should get the same settings...09:25
=== hunger_t_ is now known as hunger
pittilool: right; when we do an Ubutu upload, it shuold make the package actually working09:27
pittilool: we can wait a few days, but for the MIR it would be good to get it working ASAP09:28
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
pittiMithrandir: since you seem to work on bluetooth, do you have an idea about bug 72033? what would need to happen to make this work OOTB?09:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 72033 in ubuntu-meta "Install gnome-bluetooth by default to enable receiving files via bluetooth" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7203309:58
loolpitti: Not sure we want to have an obex server listening on bluetooth 100% of the time10:01
lool(No open port policy?)10:01
pittiah, right10:01
pittiso the bug is merely about making it much easier, not making it totally automatic?10:02
loolI guess so10:02
mjj29installed, but not enabled by default is probably reasonable10:02
mjj29so enableable from the gnome menus10:02
loolpitti: The bug seems to be about having it installed by default10:02
loolSomeone proposes installing it when a bluetooth device is present/inserted10:03
loolI'd say we should install on mobile devices like laptops; I'm not sure it's easy to see the bluetooth adapter if it's off10:03
lool(ISTR it's an USB device appearing on the USB bus on my thinkpad)10:03
loolpitti: Also, I don't think there's an easy way to launch the obex server from the bluetooth adapter icon when it's visible10:05
geserpitti: Hi, please give-back: libwnck. Thanks.10:09
pittihi geser; kicked10:11
RiddellArneGoet1e: why would we ever not want antialiasing by default?10:18
Keybukpitti: are ddebs not being generated automatically any more?10:29
seb128Keybuk: they are, what package is that about?10:29
pittiKeybuk: they are supposed to10:29
Keybukpitti: there's nothing in gutsy-security10:29
seb128ah, pockets is an another story10:29
pittiKeybuk: right, it seems that the sbuild hack is not applied to the security buildds10:30
seb128I think it's a buildd thing10:30
pittiseb128: for bug 186569, TBH I'd prefer to fix nautilus for conforming to the SuSv3 spec rather than changing ntfs3g; do you object?10:36
ubotuLaunchpad bug 186569 in ntfs-3g "cannot delete files off of an Fuse mounted NTFS partition in nautilus" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18656910:36
pittiseb128: I'll do it and forward it to upstream, just asking for your opinion10:36
seb128pitti: let me ask alex, we discuss bugs on IRC usually10:36
* pitti hugs seb128, merci10:36
seb128pitti: but are you sure it's not a ntfs3g issue?10:37
seb128pitti: man rmdir on hardy doesn't list EEXIST as a valid codecase10:37
pittiseb128: well, you can argue that ntfs3g should throw the errno as described in the Linux manpage of rmdir10:37
pittiseb128: but since the unix spec says otherwise, I see the point of ntfs3g doing it otherwise10:37
=== ArneGoet1e is now known as ArneGoetje
seb128why should we trust the unix specs rather than the ubuntu rmdir one?10:38
pitti"NTFS-3G uses EEXIST because more software handle the relevant error scenario better that way. Seemingly that doesn't include Nautilus." -> I can't really validate this, but it should be considered at least10:39
pittiseb128: well, rmdir() on ext3 just returns ENOTEMPTY exclusively, no doubt10:40
pittibut it doesn't actively say "rmdir must not return anything else"?10:40
ArneGoetjeRiddell: in that case, the fontconfig package needs to be patched.10:40
RiddellArneGoetje: doesn't sound too hard10:41
seb128pitti: well, if you can't trust the manpage ...10:41
pittiseb128: I don't have a strong opinion on doing either, but in the principle of being tolerant with inputs and strict with outputs I tend to fix nautilus10:41
seb128well, I'll discuss it with alex10:42
seb128but I'm not fan to use workarounds for broken code10:42
pittiseb128: I'll file a bug against the rmdir manpage in Debian10:42
ArneGoetjeRiddell: yep, will do.10:45
=== thom_ is now known as thom
pittiseb128: done10:47
seb128pitti: thanks10:47
Hobbseepitti: i didn't know MIR's could get done without going thru universe.  that's kinda neat.10:49
pittiHobbsee: how do you mean? they should usually go through universe first10:49
Hobbseepitti: the hwdb stuff10:50
pittioh, right, that should get ~motu-release subscribed10:50
Hobbseepitti: no point now - youv'e already given the ack...10:51
pittiwe should consider it, though, hwdb-client is horrible10:51
pittiHobbsee: no, I didn't?10:51
ogra_cmpcpitti, i was told hwdb2 is ready for hardy10:51
Hobbseewell, put it on the MIR list is the same as "you have an exception for this, if it's OK", isn't it?10:51
Hobbseeit's a good way for getting important stuff thru REVU10:51
Hobbseeer, with avoiding REVU10:52
pittiHobbsee: no, not at all; I didn't approve anything yet, I asked to get it into universe first10:53
pittiogra_cmpc: hwdb2?10:53
Hobbseepitti: i thought your comment after reverted that, saying it was in a ppa, so that was OK10:53
cjwatsonseb128: if SUSv3 documents things that aren't mentioned in the Ubuntu rmdir manual page, you should trust SUSv3 rather than the manual page because many more people were involved in reviewing SUSv3 and it applies to more operating systems. If the manual page explicitly mentioned a deviation from SUSv3 then that might be a different matter, but it doesn't10:53
ogra_cmpcpitti, the thing liw and cr3 work on10:54
ogra_cmpc(they didnt change the gui much though)10:54
cjwatsonseb128: besides, the Linux manpages package only really documents what the Linux kernel does10:54
Hobbseewell, for MIR review10:54
seb128cjwatson: ok, I don't know what SUSv3 is and didn't know that was a reference on the topic10:54
pittiogra_cmpc: right, isn't that what hwtest is?10:54
ogra_cmpcthats the replacement10:54
cjwatsonseb128: SUSv3 == POSIX10:54
ogra_cmpcpitti, once you see its gui you understand :)10:55
ogra_cmpcit looks pretty miuch identical10:55
pitticjwatson: my thought as well, that's why I filed a bug against manpages-dev (not in the BTS yet)10:55
ogra_cmpcjust the insane backend is gone10:55
cjwatsonseb128: definitely the applicable standard :)10:55
seb128cjwatson: ok, good to know, thanks ;-)10:55
seb128speaking about fuse, could we add desktop users to the fuse group on hardy?10:58
seb128what would be the right place to discuss that? irc? mailing list? launchpad?10:58
* ogra_cmpc wouldnt mind10:59
ogra_cmpcwould make things easier in ltsp land as well ...10:59
seb128gvfs does fuse mounts transparently when accessing a network location which means applications not using vfs can access network shares transparently10:59
ogra_cmpcseb128, do you plan gvfs-fuse in the desktop as well ? i heard there are some massive probs with sabayon10:59
seb128ogra_cmpc: no idea about sabayon, we got no bug on launchpad and it's not in the default installation11:00
ogra_cmpcseb128, i was planning to pull it into e-dsktop11:00
seb128ogra_cmpc: I don't think it's a desktop user application11:01
ogra_cmpc(thats why we had so many sessions about it in boston :))11:01
seb128and yes having gvfs-fuse in the desktop installation would be nice11:01
ogra_cmpcseb128, well, then edubuntu-server in any case it will end up on the edubuntu cd11:01
pittiseb128, cjwatson: FYI, Debian bug 46755211:01
ubotuDebian bug 467552 in manpages-dev "rmdir(2) can return EEXISTS, too" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/46755211:01
ogra_cmpcseb128, ok, thats all i wanted to know :)11:02
cjwatsonseb128,ogra_cmpc: we discussed this 20 days ago in this channel and the agreed output was not to add all users by default, and for Oliver to add a notification to fuse-utils. However, I'll make the user-setup change now to add the default user to the group11:04
=== pedro__ is now known as pedro_
cjwatsonseb128: see http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/02/06/%23ubuntu-devel.txt for the log11:05
seb128cjwatson: right, I know we discussed it but I didn't open a bug or anything and no change was made that's why I was asking again11:06
seb128cjwatson: thanks ;-)11:06
ogra_cmpci'll do the fuse change today ...11:07
cjwatsonuser-setup> will do it once we've fixed a bit of bzr desync11:10
seb128pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51881611:20
ubotuGnome bug 518816 in general "should handle rmdir returning EEXIST correctly" [Normal,Unconfirmed]11:20
pittiseb128: cool, thanks; did alex agree?11:20
hackeron_hey, it seems hardy is ignoring my xorg.conf -- I have Modes           "800x480" - yet hardy starts X with "800x600" -- Is there anyway to force hardy to use my required resolution?11:21
pittiRiddell: does anything in Kubuntu still use cupsys' enable_{browsing,sharing}?12:05
Ngis sun-java6-plugin supposed to be empty apart from directories?12:06
Riddellpitti: no12:12
=== Yvonne_ is now known as Yvonne
seb128pitti: the gvfs fix has been commited to svn and uploaded to hardy now12:19
cjwatsonmjg59: are you planning to push that vt font restoration patch to the hardy kernel?12:21
pittiseb128: wow, that was fast12:21
mjg59cjwatson: Can do12:33
=== ember_ is now known as ember
=== lionel_ is now known as lionel
seb128carlos, pitti: any idea of why seahorse.mo is not in the hardy language packs?13:10
pittihm, according to the build logs they were stripped13:12
pittiseb128: from what I can see it's probably stuck in the LP translations moderation queue?13:13
seb128pitti: no idea, that's why I was asking13:13
seb128is carlos on holidays this week?13:13
seb128right, he's not working today, ok will ask him tomorrow13:15
pittisorry, I tried to find it out using the webui, but it's not really searchable enough13:15
seb128that's alright13:16
ScottKpitti: I was looking into recent Debian changes in cyrus-sasl and it looks like there are some fixes worth a merge to get.  I'm a little uncertain how to proceed since when Debian incorporated your lidbd4.6 migration patch they did it slightly differently.  Would you please take a look at it and advise me if their patch is appropriate?13:16
pittiScottK: looking13:17
pittiScottK: meh, our Ubuntun diff is horrible, 2.6 MB13:18
pittiand only because someone autoreconf'ed with a wildly different version13:18
pittiScottK: can you please clean this up during the merge?13:19
ScottKpitti: I can try.13:19
ScottKpitti: I'm not certain this is one I'll be sufficiently confident to do on my own, but I'm going to give it a shot and see how it goes.13:19
pittiScottK: confirmed that the Debian patch for db migration is fine13:22
ScottKpitti: Thanks.  I'll add that back to my TODO then.13:23
cjwatsontjaalton: ooh. I figured out the console-setup 'any' keysym bug13:57
cjwatson-               && ($symbol !~ /^nosymbol$/i13:57
cjwatson+               && ($symbol !~ /^(?:nosymbol|any)$/i13:57
cjwatsonall that over a one-liner ;-)13:57
\shslangasek: thx again for your help yesterday night :) I found the error actually...and it has nothing to do with ubuntu or anything from the system14:20
=== rproenca_ is now known as cypherbios
ograseb128, hmm, with gvfs my ltspfs patches seem not to work anymore, i suddenly have unmount options for ltspfs devices in nautilus14:22
seb128ogra: sure, gvfs has no ltsp patch yet14:23
ograright, seems i need to look into that14:23
seb128you are welcome to do the patch porting14:23
ograi have to look at gvfs first :)14:24
seb128I will have a look otherwise but that was not a priority on my list before getting gvfs uploaded14:24
ograright, understood14:24
ograi just noticed it after upgrading my ltsp server14:24
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
tjaaltoncjwatson: yay :)14:46
cjwatsonRiddell: please push your ubiquity 1.7.12 release to bzr14:51
Mithrandirpitti: 72033 is fixed with the new bluez-gnome14:51
pittiah, neat14:51
cjwatsonRiddell: also if you could try to avoid the tab characters in debian/changelog that make vim display them in red as errors, that'd be good ;)14:51
Riddellhmm, I'm sure I did14:59
Riddellright, I missed the final commit15:00
cjwatson'bzr bind' is your friend :)15:01
ograhttp://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57470/ any comments from native english speakers ?15:02
ogra(thast supposed to become teh fuse-utils notification)15:03
jdongogra: awfully wordy for a simple concept IMO15:04
ograjdong, i'm open for everything, suggest a better text15:04
ograit shouldnt scare my mom on upgrades please :)15:04
jdongogra: "Please add users to the 'fuse' group to grant permission to use fuse filesystems" would be a good paraphrase15:05
jdongprobably not optimal either, but I don't see a reason why it can't be said in a sentence15:06
jdongif you choose to go with the original, s/base/basis/15:06
ograwell, i thought some slightly more explaining text of teh why/how might be good15:06
jdongogra: "For security reasons, only members of the 'fuse' group are permitted to use fuse filesystems. Please use the Users and Groups administration tool to grant users this priviledge"15:09
ogranow *that* sounds good :)15:10
cjwatson(it's spelled "privilege")15:10
jdongoops thanks cjwatson :)15:10
cjwatsoncan we also ban the text "For security reasons"?15:10
cjwatsonwe aren't an airport :)15:10
ogradont leave your files unattnded :)15:11
jdongPlease keep your tarballs in 3kb or smaller containers in a quart sized ziploc bag15:11
ograok, i'll go with the above then, minus the security warning and typo15:11
ograwhat about the title ?15:12
ograName: Filesystem in userspace access info15:12
cjwatson"Only members of the 'fuse' group are permitted to use userspace file systems, since this is a powerful facility that has not been completely audited for safety."15:12
cjwatsonsomething like that?15:12
cjwatsonI think the installer goes for "file system" rather than "filesystem" consistently15:13
ograuh, that implies its insecure15:13
cjwatsonso does "for security reasons"15:13
pittiBenC: are you fine with bug 188806?15:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 188806 in git-core "Please sync git-core 1: (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18880615:13
cjwatsonthe discussion the other day was that we weren't confident enough in it to grant access to it to all users15:13
cjwatsonwhich is pretty much what the above is saying15:13
BenCpitti: yeah15:13
pittiBenC: i. e. do you know whether the new version introduces any behaviour changes, and have you used it?15:13
pittiBenC: ok, thanks15:13
cjwatsonogra: title> "Using userspace file systems"15:14
ograthanks ...15:14
cjwatsonalthough "userspace" is still jargon; I'm not sure how far we can go given that the whole thing is fundamentally jargon15:14
ograi'd really rather formulate it positive ... like "to gain you conntrol over access of ..." or so15:14
cjwatsonactually, the obvious flaw in all of this is that if you don't know what fuse is then you have no idea what it grants you access to15:15
ograinstead of implying its not safe15:15
jdongcjwatson: well presumably someone who's just installed fuse-utils should know what it is?15:15
cjwatsonso it needs some examples, like NTFS, sshfs, etc.15:15
jdongah, examples would be nice :)15:15
cjwatsonjdong: not given that it's installed by default, no15:15
jdongoh I totally forgot about ntfs-3g by default15:15
ograjdong, you will get the note on upgrades15:15
cjwatsonogra: perhaps drop the bit about auditing but still include "powerful" in the text, which gives users a hint why it's not available across the board15:16
jdongogra: should we instead make the fuse frontends display this message?15:16
ograjdong, every single one ? that would get annoying if you have multiple ones installed15:17
ograi.e. i have ltspfs here, sshfs, through the default install i get ntfs3g ....15:18
cjwatson"FUSE is a powerful facility that allows users to create virtual file systems. It can be used for applications ranging from digital cameras through online photo-sharing to compatibility with Microsoft Windows file systems."15:18
pittiScottK, mathiaz: could one of you please have a look at bug 79371 while you touch cyrus-sasl? seems to be an easy fix15:18
cjwatsonsomething like that?15:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 79371 in cyrus-sasl2 "saslauthd init script does not allow movement of PID" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/7937115:18
ogra"By default access to it is only granted to the first user of the system to gain the system administrator full control over access. Please add users to teh fuse group to your liking"15:20
ograthe repititive "access" isnt good though15:20
cjwatsonit also needs more punctuation15:20
ograyeah, i suck at that15:20
ograbut something in that spirit combined with your explanation15:21
cjwatson"By default, only the first user is allowed to work with virtual file systems. To grant access to other users, add them to the 'fuse' group."15:21
cjwatsonor something along those lines15:21
mjg59I think "virtual file systems" is potentially confusing15:22
mjg59As well as being inaccurate :)15:22
cjwatsonas it happens, I was quoting 'apt-cache show fuse-utils'15:22
ogramjg59, userspace filesystems instead ?15:26
mjg59Yeah, though I'm not sure that's terribly meaningful for most people15:27
mjg59I can't think of anything better off-hand, though15:27
ograthats my final text now: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57475/+15:29
cjwatsonand I think the second and third paragraphs should be merged into one paragraph15:30
ograok, done http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57476/15:31
cjwatsongood enough for me15:33
CyberSnooP"create userspace file systems" or "use userspace file systems"?15:35
cjwatsonCyberSnooP: "mount", really, except that's more jargon. You can use a fuse filesystem mounted by another user without needing to be in the fuse group yourself.15:40
CyberSnooPyeah, the whole thing is leaning toward jargon anyway so I guess there is no easy way to get it right.15:41
Keybukthat's ok compiz ...15:46
KeybukI didn't need window management anymore15:46
geserKeybuk: isn't a terminal on each side of the cube enough?15:48
keescookKeybuk: can you take a look at the most recent patch to 45842?  We were unable to reproduce the "does not mount" bug, but this fixes documentation, possible races, and the mtab bug for network fs's16:15
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
Keybukkeescook: err, so it's not an ifup script anymore?16:22
Keybukoh, sorry, I didn't see the + at the end16:22
keescook*ctrl-u* yawp16:23
KeybukI'm not sure the extra call is needed, but otherwise I see where you're going16:23
keescookKeybuk: also, if it uses watershed, should we explicitly add udev as a Depend16:23
keescookokay, we'll get that fixed16:23
keescookthe extra is kind of a "it doesn't hurt and may fix future problems or issues that are hard to reproduce"16:24
KeybukI have a natural distaste for "just in case" coding ;)16:25
Keybukbut that's just a personal issue <g>16:25
keescookKeybuk: yeah, I figured that'd be the oddest part for you.  I'm taking the angle of "for Hardy, this seems more stable".  I'd be happy to rip it out for intrepid16:26
Keybuksure :)16:27
Keybukimagine my displeasure at discovering that the reason we call sync before reboot is "just in case"16:27
keescookokay, so I'll take this as a +1 from you then, and get it fixed and upload.  :)16:27
keescooksync> hehe16:27
KeybukI like to think that the kernel is not silly enough to discard writes when it feels like it16:27
Keybukbut I'm odd like that16:28
keescookI'd tend to agree.  :)16:28
Keybukhad an interesting experience the other day along those lines actually16:30
Keybukhad copied lots of stuff onto USB storage device16:30
Keybukand shutdown the machine16:30
Keybukand as it was going down thought "hey, I wonder whether it's actually going to finish writing and unmount that"16:30
Keybukhappily it stopped at "Will now halt..." sufficiently long that usplash timed out16:30
Keybuk(it amuses me that halt() appears to not actually stop processes)16:31
Keybukand after a short while, powered off16:31
Keybukso it must have been writing out to the disk still16:31
keescookso it correctly sync'd then?16:31
mjg59Yes, filesystems are synced before the machine is halted16:31
keescookkernel ftw16:32
Keybukmjg59: it seems they mostly are16:37
Keybukwe think we found a couple of cases where they may not have been16:37
Keybukbut didn't follow them up yet16:37
mjg59device_shutdown() isn't called until after that, to the best of my knowledge16:37
KeybukI'm pretty sure one of them involved the ide subsystem, so was irrelevant16:37
mjg59That was cache flushing, no?16:38
Keybukerr, can't remember; you could possibly be right16:38
mjg59The filesystem stuff is at the VFS and block device level16:39
mjg59Hardware subsystems then need to make sure that writes have actually hit the disk16:39
* mjg59 goes out16:39
Keybukah, you're absolutely right16:39
ogracjwatson, hmm, did you ever notice the " #!/bin/bash -e" at the top of the fuse-utils.postinst ?16:42
* ogra doesnt see any bashisms in there that would justify it 16:43
cjwatsonogra: I don't see any bashisms either. I imagine it was there before I touched it and I never bothered changing it16:47
ograi'll try with plain /bin/sh16:48
ograif it works i'll change it16:48
cjwatsonRiddell: ubiquity 1.7.12 final commit is still missing from bzr16:49
cjwatsonRiddell: please push it so that we don't have to merge16:50
Riddellcjwatson: sorry, done that now16:52
cjwatsonRiddell: thanks. FWIW I find 'debcommit --release' to be a useful habit (and it tags too, if your bzr branch format is new enough)16:52
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
netzmeisterpitti:  ping17:27
netzmeistercrimsun_:  did you know how can i contact Colin Watson?17:28
cjwatsonnetzmeister: hello17:29
netzmeistercjwatson:  hello..17:32
netzmeistercjwatson:  i need some info about that bug...17:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 22220 in grub "Correct modules for I2O-based raid are not loaded" [High,Fix released]17:32
netzmeister? nice feature here.. :-)17:32
cjwatsonnetzmeister: should be fixed in 6.06.217:33
netzmeistercjwatson:  the latest ISO's on ubuntu.com?17:33
netzmeisterif it is 6.06.2 the bug isn't fixed..17:34
cjwatsonnetzmeister: if there's still a problem, please update the bug with all relevant detail17:35
cjwatsonit is entirely possible it is a specific problem with your hardware rather than a recurrence of the general problem, for instance17:35
netzmeistercjwatson:  jep there is still a problem..17:36
netzmeisteri don't understand, because the installer works perfectly.17:40
nosrednaekimpitti: ping17:42
=== XSource_ is now known as XSource
shayaanyone use bzr on feisty?  the package seems broken to me18:12
nosrednaekimshaya: if you are try to use it with launchpad, I think you need to use the latest version18:13
shayanosrednaekim: just trying to run it18:15
shayaerrors out w/ python error18:15
shayacan't find bzrlib18:15
shayavery default feisty installation18:15
nosrednaekimshaya: oh... whats the error?18:15
shayaImportError: No module named bzrlib18:18
shayaPlease check bzrlib is on your PYTHONPATH....18:18
shayacould it be a python problem? (updating python now, but download is slow, only 120kB/s)18:19
nosrednaekimshaya: did the package install correctly? and did you install bzr-common (I think there is apckage called that)18:19
shayano bzr-common in fesity18:19
shayabzr, bzrtools18:19
shayaworks on my debian testing box w/o a proble18:21
pochuis ubuntu-minimal installed in buildds?18:23
pochuor does anyone know why gnome-build fails to build in the buildds but builds in my pbuilder and in debian? http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12236635/buildlog_ubuntu-hardy-i386.gnome-build_0.2.3-1ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz18:24
pochuthis is the new configure check: http://pastebin.com/f65e1711a18:24
cjwatsonthe buildd chroot does not install ubuntu-minimal18:25
cjwatsonstart with 'debootstrap --variant=buildd' if you want to reproduce it18:25
shayaok, seemed like a python bug18:26
shayaupdated python fixed it18:26
pochucjwatson: thanks. seb128 suggested it could be liblocale-gettext-perl, which is priority required in debian, but I've noticed ubuntu-minimal depends on it (indirectly)18:26
cjwatsonit's actually priority required in Ubuntu too (due to adduser), so I'm not entirely sure why it isn't installed, but no matter, you should have a build-dependency on it anyway18:27
=== heno_ is now known as heno
emgentpitti, ping18:56
Riddellslangasek: how come you didn't remove xen-unstable in bug 195453 ?19:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 195453 in xen-source "Please remove xen-{source,unstable} from hardy" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19545319:38
slangasekRiddell: I was checking with geser whether it needed blacklisting; it's blacklisted now, you can do the xen-unstable removal or I can19:40
Riddellslangasek: thanks, I'll do it19:40
=== rproenca is now known as cypherbios
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
=== slangase` is now known as slangasek
luisbgis there a problem with the bzr package in gutsy?21:41
luisbgtwo friends already asked they are having trouble and they are running an old version21:41
luisbgbut up to date to the repo21:41
TheMusoluisbg: They could still be bitten by the python-central issues that were around a week or so ago./21:43
luisbgTheMuso, ouch! that's true21:44
geserTheMuso: they affect also gutsy? I thought they affected only hardy21:44
TheMusooh sorry, right.21:44
somerville32Where are the global gtkrc-2.0 settings kept?22:56
seb128somerville32: what do you want to know exactly?22:57
seb128somerville32: there is no global configuration, each theme has its own gtkrc22:57
somerville32Ok, I think you've answered my question thanks.22:59
seb128you are welcome22:59
=== mdomsch is now known as mdomsch_BOS
zyx386we are as Kurdish users of ubuntu, have we ubuntu on our language however mussen we manuel after that installation kurdish fonts the package to add. it would better be if beside many fonts packages kurdish fonts also in usr/shre/fonts its.23:11
zyx386can anyone answer me!?23:12
zyx386that is very very important for us.23:13
somerville32zyx386: You should file a bug report.23:14
zyx386somerville32, that is not bug!23:14
slangasekzyx386: the solution is to identify the missing font packages and have them added to a language-support-fonts-ku package, depended on by language-support-ku23:14
slangasekzyx386: of course it's a bug.23:14
zyx386ok who can report bug?23:15
somerville32zyx386: You can :)23:15
somerville32zyx386: http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug23:15
zyx386yes thanx23:16
slangasekrather, http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/language-support-ku/+filebug23:17
ScottKzyx386: I think I know of a font that might work reasonably well that's already packaged for Ubuntu.  I need a moment to check.23:17
zyx386her is some report about my Q23:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 33981 in djvulibre "No font for Kurdish in Arabic script" [Medium,Fix released]23:19
zyx386uboto no, is not fixed23:20
ScottKhttps://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ttf-sil-scheherazade is a font that is said to support Kurdish.23:21
ogra_cmpcaccording to that bug above the kurdish characters are in the DejaVu Sans font23:21
slangasekuh.  how did a font bug get filed against djvulibre?23:22
zyx386ScottK, i mean kurdish in arabic script, if inot add the font paket manuel. can't see any website in kurdish (sorani)23:22
ScottKzyx386: ttf-sil-scheherazade is an arabic font.23:23
zyx386but not kurdish23:23
zyx386arabisch fonts are not utf-823:23
slangasekthat's not true23:24
ScottKzyx386: http://www.wazu.jp/gallery/views/View_Scheherazade.html is does have Kurdish23:24
slangasekwhether a font is unicode has nothing to do with whether it's arabic23:24
zyx386ScottK, that is kurdisch fonts Sorani23:25
ScottKzyx386: Scheherazade is one of the fonts listed on that page.23:26
zyx386ScottK, this page are not complet correct kurdisch fonts, sschehrezade fonts is arabisch fonts but is edited to kurdisch and have arabic encoding23:28
zyx386i mean 44 kurdish fonts Unkurd Fonts(unicode fonts)23:28
ScottKzyx386: Would Scheherazade be better than what you have now?23:29
zyx386no schehrezade is not Unikurd fonts23:29
zyx386the unikode font begin with Uni###23:30
zyx386that is correct list from unikurd fonts23:30
slangasekzyx386: can you please explain again why the scheherazade font is not suitable for this purpose?  It's already in the archive, so if there are bugs with it that we can fix, that would be a shorter path to a solution23:32
ogra_cmpcso scheherazade wouldnt display your webpages correctly ? do you have a page that shows wrong font behavior with the fonts missing ?23:32
zyx386slangasek, i try to explain you, sorry for my bad englisch. i can german to23:33
zyx386also Sherhrezad fonts is arabic fonts under encoding arabich23:34
slangasekwhat do you mean by "encoding arabisch" (arabic encoding)?23:34
slangasekare the glyphs needed by Kurdish present in the font?23:34
zyx386but the Unkurd font under encoding UTF-8, and is standard in all kurdish webpage23:35
zyx386the 99% kurdish website used this fonts as standard23:35
zyx386Unikurd Web23:35
slangasekthe encoding for a webpage, and the encoding for a font, do not have to be the same in order for them to be used compatibly23:36
slangasekit's only required that the system *know* the encoding of each, and know how to map between the encodings23:36
ScottKhttp://www.omniglot.com/writing/kurdish.htm seems to show that standard Arabic fonts should be adequate.23:37
zyx386schehrezad font is unknown, the standard fonts is Unikurd Web23:37
slangasekwhen I visit http://kurditgroup.org/download/fonts from Ubuntu, I see text in Kurdish.  I of course don't know if it's correct, or if there are characters missing, because I don't speak Kurdish; but the text displays23:37
zyx386for exapmle23:37
slangasekso I don't see any encoding problem23:38
zyx386slangasek, can you tke screen shot23:38
zyx386for expample show all CSS page23:39
zyx386Unikurd Web is  standard23:39
zyx386or Tahoma23:39
slangasekzyx386: http://people.ubuntu.com/~vorlon/Screenshot-kurditgroup.png23:40
zyx386i test with ubuntu!!23:40
zyx386but have ubuntu or debian, because of debian is ok23:41
ScottKWorks fine with Kubuntu too.23:41
zyx386ScottK, just 1min23:41
somerville32Works fine with Xubuntu too23:41
slangasekthis screenshot is with Ubuntu; it's hardy, the upcoming release, so I don't know for sure if it works the same in Ubuntu 7.1023:41
ScottKslangasek: It displays fine on my Dapper Kubuntu in Firefox, so I suspect all the ones in between work too.23:42
zyx386slangasek, of 7.10 not worked fine23:42
zyx386in Faist fawn and dapper have no problem23:42
zyx386i remove the kurdish font paket and take screenshot ok23:43
ScottK2I'm on Gutsy Kubuntu now and it looks like slangasek's screen shot.23:43
zyx386i find it23:45
zyx386the problem is firefox23:45
zyx386because of galeon have no prblemo23:45
ScottK2Works fine for me with both Firefox and Konqueror.23:45
zyx386ScottK, test this website please and take screenshot23:47
zyx386i think the problem is CSS atribude23:47
slangasekzyx386: can you show us a screenshot of the wrong behavior, instead?23:47
cjwatsonthat looks like lack of proper Arabic shaping to me ...23:49
cjwatson(by which I mean Arabic and related scripts)23:49
* ScottK2 needs to go eat dinner.23:49
cjwatsonseems to display much better in Firefox 3 in Hardy; it may simply be that Firefox 2's Arabic shaping support was poor23:50
zyx386cjwatson, correct23:50
zyx386ok i found my annswer, and thank you Ubuntu23:51
zyx386thanx all23:51
cjwatson(not that I would know for sure, I can just see that characters are joined up better; and I have to go to bed ;-) )23:51
ogra_cmpc_probably a good ised23:52
=== ogra_cmpc_ is now known as ogra_cmpc
zyx386have nice time all23:53
TheMusoHrm. Are there any known issues with python and apps not being able to import module _bsddb?23:55

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