[00:00] what is the purpose of it? I am not an aspiring database person, at any level [00:00] which is why i'm not going to be a computer science major [00:00] heh [00:00] (partly) [00:00] I have created a ton of sql databases, and never once heard of this stuff [00:00] wonder if I have been doing it wrong forever :) [00:01] nixternal_: if you want I can check if I can still find the slides of that lecture - maybe it helps [00:01] this mibbit IRC stuff through the internet is kind of nice [00:01] Nightrose: if your lecture is better than these slides, I am all for it, but don't look to hard :) [00:01] hehe ok - checking [00:02] Datase Processing: Fundamentals, Design, and Implementation - David M. Kroenke [00:02] that is the book we are using [00:02] I got tired of bringing it to class, so I just leave it at home now [00:09] nixternal_: databases is required for you? [00:10] I guess...I don't know why [00:10] it was either this stupid class or access...I picked this stupid class [00:10] now I wish I would have went with access :) [00:10] nixternal_: bummer - they are in german - I thought that was one of our english lectures [00:11] i took it as an elective. i kind of hated doing the problems, but it seemed like actually useful and interesting stuff [00:11] Nightrose: heh, I think our slides are in German too, because I have no clue wth they say :p [00:11] *lol* === blueyed_ is now known as blueyed [00:20] nixternal_: normalisation is useful, the academic theory behind it I've never found to be anything other than confusing something that is mostly simple [00:21] well, normalisation is somewhat easy, it is remembering the different things that separate 1NF, 2NF, 3NF, 4NF, and BCNF [00:21] exactly [00:21] the funny thing I am finding out though, is all of the work asks for "my assumption"...which is great, because I can argue with the teacher and get a perfect score because that is my assumption :) [00:30] * Nightrose snoozes - nini :) [00:31] k'nite [00:40] Back when I was taking computer science classes we didn't learn about building databases. We learned about data structures and writing an optimal sorting algorithm. [00:42] ScottK2: we already did that stuff [00:43] but back when you took computer science classes, databases were still on paper :p [00:43] Yeah, well from there it was into circuit design and hardware. [00:43] Yeah. [00:44] How many people here have felt the pain of dropping a deck of punch cards and having to re-sort them into the correct order/direction? [00:44] * ScottK2 raises hand. [00:45] * ryanakca wishes they still had machines like those running... just for the historic experience... [00:48] * nixternal_ has [00:49] I didn't re-sort them though...I walked away and left them [00:49] * ScottK2 had an assignment due. [00:49] probably why I got fired from that job [00:49] That's only surpassed by realizing your entire COBOL deck has preform instead of perform in it. [00:50] Probalby [00:51] <1:1> and <1:N> and finally something I understand [00:52] preform instead of perform? [00:55] Yes, IIRC (It's been over 25 years since I touched COBOL) you perform . Preform is a syntax error and I had to retype about half the deck as I was consitently wrong throughout. [00:56] ah :) [00:57] Today it'd be trivial to fix with search and replace. In 1980 it was painful. [00:58] 1980 on big iron with punch cards. Micro computers did, in fact, exist at that point. [00:58] heh, punch cards... what were they punched with, surely some specialized machine and not a hole punch? :P [00:58] * txwikinger just had an earthquake [00:58] Yes. [00:59] txwikinger: In .de? [00:59] No England [01:00] Pretty unusual for there too, isn't it? [01:00] heh [01:00] yes... about the 2nd I had here in 6 years [01:00] * ryanakca wonders if they'll talk about it on BBC Radio 2's hourly news [01:01] ryanakca: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_card [01:01] ryanakca: must have been a very wide one [01:02] so far it was also in york, leeds and southport [01:02] * txwikinger is in Birmingham [01:03] Wos [01:03] Wow even [01:04] ryanakca: If you want even older: http://www.library.upenn.edu/exhibits/rbm/mauchly/jwm0-1.html [01:04] They still had bits of that lying around when I went there (but weren't using it anymore). [01:04] txwikinger: oh, Janice Long just mentioned it. Notingham, Duncaster, Lancasher, Bister, Hagly, Sheffield, Central London... etc (pardon the spelling) [01:04] Yes.. must have been all of south and middle England [01:05] ScottK2: interesting :) [01:05] see y'all in a bit...I am gonna head for some food and get my butt home, this class is boring tonight [01:05] wow.. 5.5 that is huge for England [01:05] http://geofon.gfz-potsdam.de/db/eqinfo.php [01:05] Night nixternal [01:05] hi nixternal [01:05] or night :) [01:06] * ScottK2 tries to smack some learning into these young whippersnappers. [01:06] Yeah. Wow. [01:08] Doesn't seem to be on the BBC web site yet. [01:08] BBC is sleeping [01:09] they don't even have it on 24news yet [01:09] how big was it? [01:09] lol, well, you can smack some more learning into me after I finish http://www.spoj.pl/problems/PALIN.pdf [01:09] txwikinger: switch to radio2 [01:10] ok.. BBC2 radio [01:28] Says 2.5 here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/manchester/6940546.stm [01:29] ScottK2: Last Updated: Friday, 10 August 2007, 13:05 GMT 14:05 UK [01:37] Ah [01:38] evening [01:39] aaaah, wtf. in I have compiz installed. Open konsole, python -> help() -> modules math [01:40] for some random reason I can't comprehend, compiz starts with the following message http://pastebin.ca/919882 === r0uzic_ is now known as r0uzic_ausente [01:41] txwikinger: 5 miles from Lincoln is the epicentre, 4.7 quake. [01:42] Yes Ryan [01:42] lol :D [01:42] where was the earthquake? [01:42] * ryanakca wasn't sure you were still listening ;) [01:42] #ubuntu-uk has changed topic to earthquake :) [01:43] jjesse: South/central england [01:43] jjesse: hear all about it from the BBC ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio2.shtml [01:44] wow crazy [01:45] just would like to state there is no cup of coffee that is worse then hotel instant coffee [01:45] don't even know if you can call it "coffee" [01:45] lol === MuNzE is now known as mi [01:46] does it have a kitchenette/stove element? [01:47] nope just a "packet" with "coffee" in it that you put in and put water and turn it on [01:48] jjesse: Try drinking coffee on a Navy ship underway. It's 3:30 AM (0330). You've had 2 hours of sleep that will have to last you the night. The coffee was made about 22 hours ago and has gradually been turning to sludge since. That's a worse cup of coffee, but you'd drink it anyway and be glad for it. [01:48] hrmm looks like c-130 airplanes are doing night time touch and goes [01:48] ScottK2: ok you have me beat [01:48] lol [01:50] nixternal would 2nd that perspective, I'm guessing. [01:51] * ryanakca pets the luxury that alt.coffee, homeroasted coffee and a Zassenhaus knee grinder grant him :) [01:52] sounds expensive and tasty [01:52] my wife and i order our coffee from Tully's in Seattle [01:52] so much better then starbucks coffeee [01:52] jjesse: nah, homeroasting coffee is about half the price of the preroasted stuff [01:52] half to three quarters... [02:02] After Navy coffee, any coffee I have now is good coffee. [02:10] i bet [02:13] wow i totally don't want to do any work this evening === krwk is now known as krawek [03:08] hrmm i wonder if i should take the plunge and upgrade my gutsy box to hardy [03:09] jjesse» BTW... I got an email back from google, who said that I may be eligible, and that I should ask during the student-sign-up week :) [03:09] SoC? [03:10] yeah [03:15] nosrednaekim: that's awesome news i'm glad you sent a note [03:15] its been nice so far this week i've had the opportunity to squish a lot of bugs assigned to the kubuntu team :) [03:52] Can I add a proxy to a machine via command line only? [03:52] I'm smelling iptables as the response .... [04:46] ScottK2: I actually enjoyed the Haze Grey Cafe [04:46] we would perculate coffee all day long, never removing the old grounds [04:46] come 2am, you would have to use paint thinner for creamer [04:55] Yeah, well that's where I learned to like coffee, so my perspective is slanted. === _czessi is now known as Czessi === david_a is now known as krawek [07:24] omg [07:24] suse is having a so much nicer CD menu appearance :| [07:26] CSS rocks [07:48] daSKreech: they also have some kind of splash [07:49] nice animation fading in 'welcome' in different languages === \sh_away is now known as \sh === hunger_t is now known as hunger [09:42] <_StefanS_> kwwii: ping? [09:46] erm, when _StefanS_ comes back someone tell him pong from me [09:46] lol [09:46] hi _StefanS_ [09:46] <_StefanS_> kwwii: hey [09:46] <_StefanS_> kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/hardy [09:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I got the remaining buttons in svg from nuno [09:47] _StefanS_: cool [09:47] <_StefanS_> kwwii: you think so ? :) [09:47] _StefanS_: I think that the panel looks a bit too light blue for my tastes [09:48] <_StefanS_> kwwii: two secs, I will update the screenshot [09:48] <_StefanS_> without the coloration of the kicker bar [09:49] I am not against coloring the panel - it just looks a bit too blue to me now [09:49] <_StefanS_> kwwii: well I think the entire thing look too glassy, but i dont want to change the theme too radically [09:50] <_StefanS_> kwwii: what about the wallpaper, should we do anything to it? and what about the buttons for the windeco, is the frame too dark? [09:50] <_StefanS_> I'm not really an artwork artist :) [09:51] _StefanS_: they seem too dark to me, at least the outline should be lighter [09:51] and to be honest, I think that the X and such on the old versions were better [09:51] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yep, maybe 50% lighter? [09:51] yeah [09:51] <_StefanS_> do you have that X i svg ? [09:51] <_StefanS_> cant remember if it were among those you sent me [09:52] <_StefanS_> anyway I will send you the svg nuno did with all the buttons, so that I'm not the only one that has them [09:55] <_StefanS_> kwwii: they're on their way [09:57] kwwii: got a quick question for you if you have a min? [09:58] kwwii: do you know of a easy way to make a mirror effect for an icon? ie. a reflection underneath? [10:00] jussi01: do you mean in code or in the actual pic? [10:01] kwwii: actual pic [10:01] <_StefanS_> kwwii: I found your original X button, doing it now [10:01] if you just want to make a simple reflection, copy the entire object, make it one shape, pull the top down below so that it is "mirrored" and give it a gradient fill going to transparent on the bottom [10:01] _StefanS_: cool [10:02] * _StefanS_ is far from an inkscape artist :D [10:02] kwwii: ahh, thank you [10:05] np [10:13] uh the bug tags page needs a toc, seriously [10:14] nixternal: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Tags - search for upstream, please make sure to use the tags when appropriate :) [10:15] _StefanS_: are the final/exported buttons partialy transparent? [10:17] <_StefanS_> kwwii: yes [10:21] <_StefanS_> kwwii: it helped with the 50%, I will post some screens in a moment [10:22] _StefanS_: cool, I might get a minute sometime later to play with them [10:22] * kwwii is in london in a packaging seminar :-/ [10:23] <_StefanS_> kwwii: http://enhance-it.dk/appearance.png [10:23] <_StefanS_> http://enhance-it.dk/hardy/appearance.png [10:24] cool === \sh is now known as \sh_away [10:30] kwwii: if you are not overly busy, could you let me know how to do the gradient in gimp? im feeling a little stupid atm... :( [10:31] <_StefanS_> jussi01: dont worry, I dont know either :D [10:32] :) [10:33] _StefanS_: I just cant seem to get a non colored gradient :( [10:35] jussi01: select the colors you want to use in the normal colors widget and then select the gradient tool [10:35] one of the gradients in the list will be foreground to background [10:35] or foreground to trasnparent [10:35] also, you can define a new gradient but that is more complex [10:37] kwwii: but I dont want any colour, i just want to fade out [10:38] <_StefanS_> kwwii: the deb for kwin-style-crystal is here: http://enhance-it.dk/hardy/kwin-style-crystal_1.0.5-0ubuntu3_i386.deb if you want to test it [10:38] then you want foreground to trasnparent [10:38] <_StefanS_> be back in 30min. [10:38] _StefanS_: cool, thanks [10:38] kwwii: yeah, but how do I choose a transparent colour for the foreground? [10:40] kwwii: a suitcase packaging seminar? [10:40] * apachelogger never gets that right :| [10:41] jussi01: if you click on the gradient itslef in the Blend part of the gradient tool you can then click in the bottom right to open a dialog in which you can edit the gradients by hand [10:42] apachelogger: lol, I am learning how to pack my bags for business trips :p [10:42] Nightrose: can we attend such a seminar as well? [10:43] apachelogger: sure - come by and I will teach you ;-) [10:43] I don't want to crumple my suit for cebit [10:43] oO suit? [10:43] damn it [10:43] folding shirts is my wife's job ;-) [10:43] * Nightrose needs to get her stuff cleaned then [10:44] * apachelogger needs to get Nightrose to fold his shirts [10:44] don't get that right either [10:44] hihi [10:44] no prob [10:44] yay [10:44] * apachelogger goes bug triaging again === \sh_away is now known as \sh [11:27] hi folks [11:27] hope everything is going well [11:28] heya mhb [11:28] I wish I had less school these days so I could hang out here with you... [11:28] mhb: :) [11:28] hey mhb :) how are you? [11:29] Nightrose: I'm doing well, but I'm not leaving school before 19:00 4 days a week [11:30] meh [11:30] these KDE 4 CDs are one problem after another [11:30] * jussi01 sighs... sad :( [11:31] Nightrose: meh? as a sign of "I don't care"? [11:31] Nightrose: I still don't grasp what "meh" really means [11:31] but I'm pretty sure that there's only one problem left, then make CDs, test and voila [11:31] meh as a sign of "bah that is bad" ;-) [11:32] Riddell: that's too bad [11:32] Riddell: please let me know if and when they come out :) [11:42] Riddell: tell me about it .... neon was due on saturday ;-) [11:49] -.- [11:50] I just br0ke my system to reproduce a bug [11:50] my all nu hardy installation [11:50] * apachelogger could start crying right away [11:50] * blizzzek passes apachelogger a hanky [11:50] * Nightrose hugs apachelogger [11:52] oh [11:52] ah [11:52] eh [11:52] omg [11:52] Oo [11:52] yay [11:52] bug 194814 [11:52] Launchpad bug 194814 in kdebase-kde4 "A lot of programms can't start because of KComponentData" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194814 [11:53] bug #194814 [11:53] haha :D [11:53] people br0ke their installations with Riddell's Qt 4.4 snapshot [11:53] * apachelogger marks this bug as 'super strange, but invalid' [11:58] apachelogger: Hey, I have that one too! And I did not even need Riddel's Qt4.4 snapshot;-) [12:00] hunger: right, you randomly break your system eitherway :P [12:00] apachelogger: Well, this time my system is fine... I just can not get kde 4.1 to work. [12:01] THe kde4 debs work fine... [12:01] and usually I get my system broken by you ubuntu guys. [12:01] sure :P [12:02] Nightrose: note hunger as possible test candidate for a possible global neon [12:02] hehe [12:02] k [12:02] Nightrose: I update usually once per 60min, so I'll test it whether you mark me out or not:-) [12:02] * apachelogger tries fixing his system again [12:03] hunger: *g* alright [12:03] you are on the list anyway [12:04] apachelogger: And by the way: I did not have any mayor issues since I started putting /etc under revision control. It helps a lot to have the old files around and to know which version of which deb was installed when things were still working;-) [12:04] Too bad that lp spec never got of the ground. [12:04] yeah, sounds reasonable [12:05] omg [12:05] -.- [12:05] network-manager got uninstalled [12:05] * apachelogger is connectionless [12:17] hi everybody! [12:17] heya serega [12:23] hey serega, jussi01 [12:23] gday Hobbsee [12:24] Hi, Hobbsee [13:06] is nixternal the only one working on kubuntu kickoff? [13:07] i havent checked out the latest live cd, but i noticed the menu selection highlight is full-width rather than variable (what the plasma team is pushing) [13:07] just so you know, i fully support full width selection so dont feel like you have to change the selection highlight size to whatever is in kde svn :P [13:11] seele: I don't think nixternal has done anything with it, apachelogger did add some patches [13:22] Riddell: ok [13:25] apachelogger: tags are stupid [13:27] seele: I took a look at the code base, and aaron was right, there are a couple of ways to go with getting the dark themes fixed [13:31] jeesh, the tag base has grown [13:32] is that a good thing? [13:32] nixternal: sent you an email last night [13:32] ya, just got it [13:33] cool [13:33] i'm also having problems commit the changes i made last night to the network.xml file, keeps saying no changes [13:34] after you made the changes and did 'bzr commit' it says no changes? [13:34] or when you try to push it [13:34] when i push it [13:34] try to push it [13:35] make a change :) [13:35] i did [13:35] interesting...move the network.xml out of the directory, do bzr up, and then move the network.xml back and give it another shot [13:35] and did a successfull bzr commit [13:35] ok i'll will when i have some time later today [13:45] all new kubuntu-kde4 CDs up for testing [13:45] these ones are going to work, I just know it [13:46] jussi01: [13:48] Riddell: hehe, did you see my message the other day about them? [13:48] nixternal: which one? [13:48] startkde script was broken, I've fixed that [13:48] about the LiveCD version not going to the desktop, but you could install, installed very slow, and yes the startkde script [13:48] is downloading updates for alpha 5 sufficient or do i have to get the latest live cd? [13:48] with startkde fixed that knocks out two issues [13:49] Riddell: nice:) Ill grab one soon :D [13:49] seele: it is a new LiveCD for just KDE 4 only [13:49] seele: I'm looking for CD testing just now [13:49] nixternal: the daily? or the hardy alpha 5? i found two places to download something [13:50] I will grab one after my conference call and happily remove this Ubuntu install :) [13:50] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-kde4/daily-live/20080227.2/ http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-kde4/daily/20080227.3/ [13:50] seele: kubuntu-kde4/ [13:50] there you go :) [13:50] kk thanks [13:50] hehe [13:53] nixternal: not when doing proper bug triaging :P [13:54] plus, some of those don't need upstream reports [13:55] nixternal: for example? [13:58] power possibly, the gtk icons one in the taskbar [13:58] those are the 2 at the top of my head [14:00] nixternal: easier to remove unncessary tags than to add them for 3bill existing reports [14:01] true [14:01] hahaha, 3 billion [14:01] 100 million dollars [14:04] the BBC, AP, Sky, or any news outlet has nothing on IRC [14:04] we knew of the earthquake 2 hours before it hit the news :p [14:04] lol [14:09] moin everyone :) [14:09] i just packaged the kde4 port for keurocalc [14:10] is it too late for hardy? or do you think this warrants an exception? [14:10] vorian: FFe need yeah [14:10] werd [14:11] thanks jpatrick :) [14:13] vorian: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2008-February/025128.html [14:14] jpatrick, I've done a couple ff exceptions for updates [14:15] vorian: just a little heads up that he'll be after your bllod if you get a new package in without his approval ;) [14:15] who wha? [14:15] :) [14:17] jpatrick, jr? [14:18] vorian: the motu-release team [14:18] ok [14:18] :) === jelmer_ is now known as jelmer [14:44] apachelogger: you about? [14:47] about what? [14:47] omg, I feel work [14:48] ScottK: about quassel which is in his ppa ;) [14:48] apachelogger: no, not really ;) [14:48] apachelogger: may I pm for a moment? [14:49] jussi01: only if you behave yourself ;-) [14:49] sure [15:00] hi all [15:00] what would be the best qt4 IDE? [15:01] someone said kdevelop [15:01] but are there any qt4 IDEs? [15:02] well, qt-designer makes it easy to make the GUI's [15:02] soussou: If you want to do qt only apps using qmake, then you might want to check qdevelep. [15:02] I know it does, I was just wondering how it stacks up against qdeveloper [15:02] qdevelop is in Hardy. [15:02] ..er [15:03] soussou: Otherwise kdevelop is nice, eclipse can be used as well, but does not really support Qt per se. [15:03] thanks guys [15:04] someone just said qdevelop is in hardy, I just tried a quick search, nothing came up [15:05] what repos is it in? [15:05] !info qdevelop hardy [15:05] qdevelop (source: qdevelop): A development environment entirely dedicated to Qt4. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.25.2-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 1294 kB, installed size 2744 kB [15:05] !info qdevelop (hardy) [15:05] nosrednaekim: .. [15:05] bleh :) [15:05] ubotu: what repos r u using? [15:05] !bot | soussou [15:05] soussou: I am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots [15:05] !ubotu [15:05] i'm slow today [15:06] LOL, i thought I was talking to some smart dude [15:11] soussou: you are [15:22] awooga, all the CDs work [15:24] Riddell: I'll see if I can find something to upload to fix that. [15:24] is anyone else testing them? seele, nixternal? [15:25] Riddell: i havent yet.. i was planning to at my next break [15:25] (in all day testing today) [15:26] thanks [15:26] jussi01? [15:26] Riddell: hi [15:26] hi serega [15:27] Riddell: could you look at my patch? [15:28] serega: where is it? [15:28] Riddell: I am going to test alternative now [15:28] Riddell: http://kubuntu.pastebin.ca/919149 [15:28] nixternal: great [15:33] Riddell: I can test later (in 2 hours or so) [15:33] serega: looks good [15:33] Nightrose: thanks [15:34] serega: recommends need commas between them otherwise I'll upload [15:35] Riddell: ah... I'll fix it in seconds. Could you suggest me a source of "LEGAL TEXT" to copy? [15:36] serega: legal text? I can add the commas, that's just as easy [15:37] Riddell: please do [15:37] Riddell: look at line 187 of the patch [15:37] Riddell: I tested alternate CD 27.3 i386, worked fine for me [15:37] Riddell: it meant to be a warning about libdvdcss legal status [15:39] neversfelde: fantastic, thanks! [15:40] serega: hmm [15:42] "This package allows you to watch encrypted DVD videos. This is illegal in some countries because it has not been authorised by the copyright holder. Do you want to install this package?" [15:42] Riddell: sounds very nice [15:43] there is a 27.3 now? [15:43] * seele redownloads [15:43] Riddell: could you add this to the patch too? [15:43] seele: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-kde4/daily-live/20080227.2/ [15:43] ok.. that's what i have [15:43] seele: alternates are .3, live/desktops are .2 [15:43] ah hah [15:44] since neversfelde has tested an alternate live/desktops could do with the testing [15:44] Riddell: mm... "This package" isn't good [15:44] * Nightrose will test live cd for i386 [15:44] Riddell: libdvdcss is not mentioned before this dialog [15:45] "LibDVDCSS is about to be installed. This package allows you to watch encrypted DVD videos. This is illegal in some countries because it has not been authorised by the copyright holder. Do you want to install this package?" [15:45] "LibDVDCSS is about to be installed, it allows you to watch encrypted DVD videos. This is illegal in some countries because it has not been authorised by the copyright holder. Do you want to install this package?" [15:46] Riddell: LibDVDCSS (http://link.to.homepage) [15:46] "LibDVDCSS (http://www.videolan.org/developers/libdvdcss.html) is about to be installed, it allows you to watch encrypted DVD videos. This is illegal in some countries which require decryption to be authorised by the copyright holder. Do you want to install this package?" [15:47] Riddell: it times nicer than my variants :) [15:47] thanks you [15:48] *thank === _czessi is now known as Czessi [15:51] serega: sorted, uploading [15:51] is there a tutorial on how to install qdevelop in gutsy? [15:51] I know that qdevelop was added to hardy, but I haven't moved to heron yet [15:52] soussou: there's no packages for it. you'd need to ask the qdevelop project for how to install manually [15:53] I see, but it was added to hardy, am I right? [15:53] soussou: yes [15:53] is there another decent qt4 IDE I can use in gutsy? [15:53] besides kdevelop [15:54] I need one that seamlessly integrates qtdesigner preferably [15:54] soussou: Emacs, vi. [15:54] lol [15:54] soussou: for c++ programming? or python? [15:54] soussou: Sorry, I counld not resist. [15:54] i should have expected that one [15:54] eric maybe [15:54] vim actually works better for me [15:54] c++ programming mainly [15:54] soussou: Designer tends to behave strange when embedded into other apps... I always use it stand alone. [15:55] hunger: ok then, maybe I ll just stick with codeblocks, and code the GUI separately [15:55] soussou: Well, maybe it did get better. I am using it standalone only for a couple of versions now;-) [15:56] soussou: this is good: http://www.vi-improved.org/tutorial.php [15:56] vim RULES, I don't need an editor though [15:56] I need a full fledged IDE [15:56] with debugging and version control, and all the hooplas [15:57] fdoving: I can lecture on vim for hours [15:57] but that'snot what I am after [15:57] So far I have not seen any IDE that is as good as specialized standalone apps and a couple of scripts. [15:58] ew, installer text isnt anti-aliased [15:58] seele: yeah, known problem [15:58] ok, qmake and .pro should do the job [15:58] thanks guys [15:58] ok [15:58]