=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
=== mwhudson__ is now known as mwhudson
Rinchenfoo spelled backwards?17:59
Rinchenwell, I show 18:0017:59
MootBotMeeting started at 18:00. The chair is Rinchen.18:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:00
=== danilo_ is now known as danilos
RinchenWelcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating Launchpad development.18:00
Rinchen[TOPIC] Roll Call18:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Roll Call18:00
Rinchenme :-)18:00
danilosRinchen: you turned the agenda around again? :)18:00
Rinchendanilos, just for you :-)18:01
Rinchenbigjools, cprov ?18:01
Rinchengmb, herb mthaddon ?18:01
Rinchensalgado, ?18:01
Rinchenstub, ?18:01
thumperabentley: ?18:01
danilosRinchen: I've pinged carlos and jtv18:01
Rinchendanilos, thanks18:02
BjornTintellectronica: ?18:02
danilosRinchen: ah right, jtv mentioned that he'll be travelling18:02
* bigjools is here for 5 minutes18:02
RinchenSteve and kiko are in another meeting so I'm going to press on...18:02
salgadomars, did you say me already?18:02
marssalgado, me?18:02
Rinchen[TOPIC] Agenda18:02
MootBotNew Topic:  Agenda18:02
Rinchen * Next meeting18:02
Rinchen * Actions from last meeting18:02
Rinchen * Oops report (Matsubara)18:02
Rinchen * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)18:02
Rinchen * Bug tags18:02
Rinchen * Operations report (mthaddon/herb)18:02
Rinchen * DBA report (stub)18:03
Rinchen * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)18:03
Rinchen * New packages required (salgado)18:03
Rinchen * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)18:03
Rinchen * Doc Team report (mrevell)18:03
Rinchen[TOPIC] Next meeting18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Next meeting18:03
RinchenI think we should be able to do next week's meeting.18:03
RinchenThe Team Leads will be together but that shouldn't stop us :-)18:03
RinchenSo that would be 6 March, same time, same place18:03
Rinchenany objections or known absences?18:03
Rinchen[AGREED] Next meeting 6 March, same time, same place18:04
MootBotAGREED received:  Next meeting 6 March, same time, same place18:04
Rinchen[TOPIC] Actions from last meeting18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Actions from last meeting18:04
Rinchenrepost: salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate18:04
Rinchenrepost: danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts18:04
Rinchenrepost: mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.18:05
salgadoRinchen, not done yet18:05
Rinchen[ACTION] repost: salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate18:05
MootBotACTION received:  repost: salgado to investigate adding turbogears for codebrowse and germinate18:05
danilosRinchen: still on it, got some pretty reports now, but not yet discussed with the team18:05
jtvme too18:05
mpt(Sorry, had Internet troubles)18:05
Rinchen[ACTION] repost: danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts18:05
MootBotACTION received:  repost: danilos to investigate profiling and Rosetta team to prepare proposal for next week to fix remaining timeouts18:05
Rinchenno worries and welcome18:05
mthaddonRinchen, on the agenda for the coming week18:05
Rinchen[ACTION] repost: mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.18:06
MootBotACTION received:  repost: mthaddon - discuss updating devpad rocketfuel archives to packs and do so if lifeless approved.18:06
Rinchengmb - investigate Bug 19398318:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193983 in malone "Oops deactivating account when the account has a conjoined bugtask assigned to it" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19398318:06
Rinchenkiko and cprov - discuss bug 19365618:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193656 in soyuz "Process-death-row procedure became very slow" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19365618:06
Rinchenthe rest are completed18:06
gmbRinchen: That bug has now had a fix comitted.18:06
Rinchengreat thanks gmb18:06
cprovRinchen: not done, sorry. I hope we will have time to discuss it together in London next week.18:06
Rinchencprov, ok, I'm going to raise that again quickly during the critical bugs :-)18:07
Rinchen[ACTION] repost: kiko and cprov - discuss bug 19365618:07
MootBotACTION received:  repost: kiko and cprov - discuss bug 19365618:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193656 in soyuz "Process-death-row procedure became very slow" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19365618:07
cprovRinchen: okay, cool18:07
Rinchen[TOPIC] Oops report (Matsubara)18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Oops report (Matsubara)18:07
matsubaraToday's oops report is about bugs 196253, 196661, 196669, OOPS-788EB21, OOPS-788EC518:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196253 in launchpad "OOPS importing pgp key" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19625318:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196661 in launchpad-answers "Email reply triggered a ProgrammingError" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19666118:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196669 in launchpad "Change mirror owner to someone who doesn't have a preferred email set crashes the +review form" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19666918:07
matsubarabout OOPS-788EB21, carlos is on it already. I'll file a bug and assign to him.18:07
matsubaraACTION: matsubara to file a place holder bug for OOPS-788EB21 and assign it to carlos w18:07
matsubaraho is already investigating it.18:07
matsubaraAny volunteers to fix 196253?18:08
matsubarasalgado, 196669 is for you me thinks.18:08
Rinchen[ACTION] ACTION: matsubara to file a place holder bug for OOPS-788EB21 and assign it to carlos who is already investigating it.18:08
MootBotACTION received:  ACTION: matsubara to file a place holder bug for OOPS-788EB21 and assign it to carlos who is already investigating it.18:08
matsubaraflacoste, can you take a look at the oops in 196661 and check if it was fixed by 191074? If yes, I'll set the status to Invalid.18:08
salgadomatsubara, that sounds like a low priority one to me18:08
matsubaraI need to investigate OOPS-788EC5, it seems related to bug 19580918:09
ubotuBug 195809 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/195809 is private18:09
matsubaraACTION: matsubara to investigate OOPS-788EC5 and confirm if it's related to 195809, if not file a new bug.18:09
Rinchen[ACTION]  matsubara to investigate OOPS-788EC5 and confirm if it's related to 195809, if not file a new bug.18:09
MootBotACTION received:   matsubara to investigate OOPS-788EC5 and confirm if it's related to 195809, if not file a new bug.18:09
matsubarasalgado: please set the status and add a rationale. thanks!18:09
Rinchenmatsubara, flacoste isn't around at the moment. Perhaps an email to him?18:10
salgadomatsubara, as you wish. ;)18:10
matsubaraRinchen: ok. I'm done then. thanks18:10
salgadomatsubara, btw, you dupper!18:11
Rinchen[ACTION] matsubara to email flacoste about oops in 196661  and check if it was fixed by 19107418:11
MootBotACTION received:  matsubara to email flacoste about oops in 196661  and check if it was fixed by 19107418:11
* salgado always wanted to say that18:11
Rinchen[TOPIC] Critical Bugs (Rinchen)18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Critical Bugs (Rinchen)18:11
Rinchen[LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/19271318:11
Rinchenbigjooles, how is this going?18:11
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/19271318:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 192713 in soyuz "PPA packages fail to upload but build successfully" [Critical,In progress]18:11
Rinchener bigjools :-)18:11
RinchenI'm thinking about the electricity of the moment there18:11
Rinchen[LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/19365618:12
Rinchencprov, there's been no action on this for a week.18:12
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/19365618:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193656 in soyuz "Process-death-row procedure became very slow" [Critical,Triaged]18:12
cprovRinchen: I will assume it, we need another apt backport , this time in gutsy18:12
matsubarasalgado: is it a dupe?18:12
Rinchencprov, expecting the backport this week or next?18:12
salgadomatsubara, it is, with a single p18:12
cprovRinchen: yes, I know, that's my fault.18:12
matsubarasalgado: I mean, the distro mirror one?18:12
Rinchen[LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/19612518:12
Rinchenbjornt, how is this going?18:12
MootBotLINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/19612518:12
cprovRinchen: ASAP, mvo has it working in his PPA it's just a matter of copying it to gutsy and update lp-dep18:13
BjornTRinchen: i think it's considered a non-issue. i'll clarify with stub and update the bug report.18:13
Rinchencprov, ok, thank you18:13
RinchenBjornT, great! I like not having critical bugs :-)18:13
Rinchen[TOPIC] Bug tags18:13
MootBotNew Topic:  Bug tags18:13
Rinchenthere are no proposed tags18:14
cprovRinchen: btw, do we recommend -backports to be enabled in our development environment ?18:14
Rinchencprov, I'm not aware of any recommendation either way there18:14
stubYou will need it for PG 8.3, so yes18:14
Rinchencprov, however I do use backports18:14
cprovsalgado: do you know ?18:14
cprovsalgado: or is it better to copy it from -backports to our lpdebs archive ?18:15
Rinchencprov, salgado - why don't we cover that in salgado's section18:15
salgadocprov, well, we don't recommend it, but if we need anything from backports then we'll have to force people to do so18:15
Rinchen[TOPIC] Operations report (mthaddon/herb)18:16
MootBotNew Topic:  Operations report (mthaddon/herb)18:16
mthaddonHave migrated to new DB server(s) for production/demo18:16
mthaddonStaging migration still in progress, expected complete tomorrow18:16
mthaddonWill be updating documentation to match18:16
mthaddonExpecting to work on packs updating on devpad this week18:16
mthaddonThat's it from me unless there are any questions18:16
thumperyay packs18:16
Rinchenmthaddon, packs tomorrow then?18:16
RinchenI also see that herb has the caching for bac due tomorrow. Is that still on schedule?18:17
mthaddonRinchen, I don't know if it'll be that quick, but sometime before next week's meeting18:17
RinchenI'll ask about that again in the RT section.18:18
Rinchen[TOPIC] DBA report (stub)18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  DBA report (stub)18:18
stubNew hardware appears to be running happily. Timeouts have dropped, but please don't get lazy :-)18:18
stubMy PostgreSQL 8.3 support branch has landed, so people wanting to can play with Launchpad on PostgreSQL 8.3. DatabaseSetup has been updated.18:18
stubMigration of Launchpad to PostgreSQL 8.3 goes:18:18
stub1) Developers running PostgreSQL 8.318:18
stub2) Staging running PostgreSQL 8.318:18
stub3) PQM running PostgreSQL 8.318:18
stub4) Launchpad production database running PostgreSQL 8.318:18
stubThere are no fixed or vague timeframes yet. We want to minimize the time taken to complete steps 2-4, whilst giving staging enough time to show up any issues, to avoid PG version specific code to slip through.18:18
stubThis means I don't think we should start step 2 until we have a version of PG 8.3 we are confortable trusting on production. In the past this has been the first or second point release.18:18
stubThat is all.18:18
Rinchenstub, do we have a rough date for the future point releases?18:19
stubNot really - it depends on how quicky bugs get fixed, and if there are any high priority ones that need doing sooner rather than later.18:19
stubI would expect before hardy though, which is a natural point to make the switch over.18:20
Rinchenhmm. Well, please do keep us informed. Thanks.18:20
stub(as it avoids the need to get dapper backports)18:20
Rinchen[TOPIC] Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)18:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)18:20
Rinchenmthaddon, herb - RT 29897 - caching for bac18:20
mthaddonthx, noted18:21
Rinchenit was needed a week ago or so and currently has tomorrow as a new due date. It's blocking my closure of 1.2.218:21
Rinchen Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent?18:21
RinchenI take that as a good sign :-)18:22
Rinchen[TOPIC] New packages required (salgado)18:22
MootBotNew Topic:  New packages required (salgado)18:22
salgadoif any of the branches you're working on right now  depends on any library which is not part of the launchpad-dependencies package, come talk to me18:22
salgadostub, shall I make new packages depending po pg8.3?18:22
salgadofor hardy, that is18:23
salgadothat way we may be able to get some people testing. :)18:23
stubsalgado: PG 8.3 is available on gutsy too. It might be premature though to load up everyones boxes - opinions?18:23
cprovsalgado: okay, I'd rather add the new python-apt package in lpdebs repo and require the specific version in the lp-dep package18:23
cprovsalgado: it will be only required while we are using gutsy, hardy's version is good to go.18:24
salgadocprov, can you give some background on this?18:24
salgadostub, yeah, I also think it's too early to do that18:24
Rinchenstub, I would not want to have technology risk our milestone goals for the next few cycles. Avoiding any issues there would help us meet our objectives.18:24
cprovsalgado: yes, python-apt version in gutsy has a memory leak in debExtract() method we use in upload-processor18:24
salgadocprov, okay, let's talk about this later, then. I don't think this should be discussed in the meeting18:25
cprovsalgado: sure18:25
schwukwe're having problems with python-apt under hardy in the hardware testing client as well18:25
schwukin fact we've stopped using it18:25
Rinchen[ACTION] cprov and salgado to discus python-apt packaging in lpdebs18:26
MootBotACTION received:  cprov and salgado to discus python-apt packaging in lpdebs18:26
Rinchensalgado, done?18:26
cprovschwuk: seriously ? let's chat about it later, okay ?18:26
Rinchen[TOPIC] A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)18:26
MootBotNew Topic:  A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)18:26
mrevellCouple of things have cropped up this week.18:26
mrevell1. We've had what appears to be an unusually high number of people who, it seems, don't understand that they are subscribed to the launchpad-users list.18:27
schwukcprov: cr3 has been doing the work - he's your best bet18:27
mrevellThe launchpad-users sign up page is quite explicit in telling people that it's not for ShipIt requests etc, thanks to Kiko's big warning. Any suggestions for what else we could do to warn people that they're signing up to a mailing list will be gratefully received :)18:27
mrevell2. You've probably noticed the thread on launchpad-users about the use of real names in the Launchpad Beta Testers team. This has stirred some passions amongst a small but vocal number of the beta test team. The real names issue will, I believe, come up next week.18:27
mrevellthat's all from me, unless anyone wants to talk about these18:27
* Rinchen has emailed SteveA and Kiko about the real names item.18:27
mptDo ShipIt user tests on people who don't have English as their first language18:27
mptThat would find the problem fairly quickly, I think :-)18:28
mrevellmpt: Think we could do this in Prague?18:28
mrevellalthough UDS people are unlikely to be ShipIt users18:28
mptYes, we might need to pull people off the street18:28
intellectronicampt: are you certain that these people are coming to the list from shipit?18:28
LarstiQmrevell: got a link to more info on the real names issue?18:28
mptintellectronica, not certain, one of them this morning didn't know what "Ubuntu" was18:28
mrevellintellectronica: Some of them we can say certainly are, as they mention. others just seem a little lost and, as mpt says, one person didn't even know what Ubuntu was18:29
mrevellLarstiQ: I'll dig it out18:29
mptLarstiQ, in this month's archive it's all the "RE: [Fwd: hggdh2 deactivated by matthew.revell]" messages18:29
intellectronicait may be worth following up on a few of the cases. find someone that can talk to them in their language and understand how and why they found themselves on the list18:29
Rinchenpoolie has mentioned that it might be to the beta test item on the front page I added this cycle18:29
mrevellLarstiQ: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2008-February/003234.html18:30
Rinchenhowever I have some doubts about that because if you can read the instructions on how and why to signup, it should be obvious to follow the unsub instructions in the emails18:30
mrevellRinchen: There isn't a link to the mailing list in the help page that links to though. Interesting idea, though.18:31
RinchenI wonder if a LoCo has encouraged folks to sign-up18:31
mrevellI'll certainly mail some of the people to see if we can find out what's going on.18:31
intellectronicaRinchen: exactly. i find it a bit suspicious. could it be that someone is subscribing them and they just click the link in the confirmation email, for example?18:31
Rinchenmrevell, if you have time, you might email a few of them asking how they got on the list.18:31
mrevellRinchen: Yeah, I'd love to know what's going on.18:31
RinchenI can't help relating -users recent activity to a social networking list.  "Go signup and get karma"18:32
Rinchenanyway, thanks mrevell18:32
mrevellthanks all18:32
Rinchenand new for this week...18:32
Rinchen[TOPIC] Doc Team report (mrevell)18:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Doc Team report (mrevell)18:32
mrevellTwo opportunities to stun you into silence with my whit18:33
mrevellerr. wit18:33
Rinchenand charm :-)18:33
mrevellHello, welcome to the first doc team report!18:33
mrevellThe Launchpad Documentation Team now has 19 direct members and I'm planning to hold the first team meeting in week 2 of the 1.2.3 cycle. During that, I plan to find out what everyone wants from the team and how we can move forward.18:33
* thumper claps18:33
* mrevell bows18:33
mrevellAdditionally, this week I've been working on the new Launchpad user guide. You can see drafts of the "Your account" section at:18:33
mrevellI'll be posting a new Teams section for review to the list shortly.18:33
mrevellAs always, I'm very grateful for any feedback. Even from mpt ;-)18:33
mrevellNext up on my list are the Projects and Bug Tracker sections of the documentation. I'll also be working on a new draft of the 2008 LP tour and working on an initial summer 2008 marketing plan with Gerry Carr while I'm in London next week.18:34
gmbDamned with faint praise there, mpt.18:34
Rinchenmpt gets that a lot, you notice?18:34
mrevellDamn, joke backfired.18:34
mrevellAh, I'm safe18:34
mpt_Another thing that might help with #1 is to remember the Referer: for each person who turns up at the launchpad-users@ subscription page, and goes on to subscribe18:34
mrevellRight, anyway, so if there are any help or docs issues that you have, please ping or mail me! Or grab me next week.18:34
mpt_Then if they (even weeks later) post to launchpad-users@ showing that they don't want to be there, we could go back and look to see where they came from18:34
intellectronicampt_: we should already have this in our logs18:35
Rinchenthanks mrevell for the doc report. I'm excited to see how the doc team progresses.18:35
mrevellmpt_: That would be really cool. barry can we get that info out mailman easily? Or is it at the web server level?18:35
mrevellThanks for your ears.18:35
carlosintellectronica: I don't think is easy to map apache logs with user subscriptions...18:35
flacostei suck18:36
intellectronicacarlos: no, but we can see how people arrive at the page18:36
flacostecompletely forgot about this meeting18:36
carlosintellectronica: sure, but that would be a huge list18:36
Rinchen[IDEA] use referrer on -users to see where the subscriptions are coming from18:36
MootBotIDEA received:  use referrer on -users to see where the subscriptions are coming from18:36
stubintellectronica: If that is all you want, then we probably already have it with the apache log reports.18:36
intellectronicastub: that was exactly what i said :)18:37
stubawstats or whatever we use atm18:37
mpt_Possibly it would involve altering the subscription form to contain a hidden input field equal to the Referer18:37
mrevellDo we have a stats programme running on the mailman web interface?18:37
intellectronicacarlos: i doubt that it would be a long list. there will be a few common sources. webalizer or awstats will even make nice graphics showing which ones18:37
carlosintellectronica: my point is that you cannot get from where did a user reach the mailing list18:37
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
carlosjust a list from where all users come18:38
intellectronicacarlos: no, not specific users. to do that we'll have to record the information, you're right18:38
stubmrevell: Don't know as I can't remember the URL to the stats pages, but it is easy enough for the admins to add if it isn't there already.18:39
mrevellstub: Cool, I'll ask one of the IS chaps.18:39
Rinchenmrevell, done?18:39
mrevellyup, thanks18:40
Rinchen[TOPIC] Blockers18:40
MootBotNew Topic:  Blockers18:40
Rinchen[AGREED] Releases Team: mpt blocked on foundations. Email discussion in progress.18:40
MootBotAGREED received:  Releases Team: mpt blocked on foundations. Email discussion in progress.18:40
thumperCode team: not blocked18:40
jtvTranslations: Not blocked.18:40
cprovSoyuz team: not blocked18:40
flacosteFoundations: Not blocked18:41
adeuringhwdb: not blocked18:41
BjornTBugs Team: a bit blocked on getting feedback about requirements from kiko18:41
Rinchen[AGREED] Bugs Team: a bit blocked on getting feedback about requirements from kiko18:41
MootBotAGREED received:  Bugs Team: a bit blocked on getting feedback about requirements from kiko18:41
bacCommercialization team: not blocked18:41
Rinchenthe agreed makes it stand out in the summary18:41
Rinchenand thus ends another on-time meeting18:42
mrevellthanks all!18:42
RinchenThank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Developer Meeting. See the channel topic for the location of the logs.18:42
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:42.18:42
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-dinner
jtvRinchen: thank you18:42
intellectronicathanks, Rinchen for a great meeting18:42
thumperRinchen: thanks18:42
schwukthank Rinchen18:42
=== stub is now known as stub-bedtime
* sinzui notes that one should not use the can spray glue next to the can of air to fix a sticky keyboard.18:42
Rinchenintellectronica, yeah I only made one goof  :-)18:42
intellectronicaRinchen: that's not goofing. that's what we call "personal style"18:43
Rinchenintellectronica, ah I see!18:43
* mwhudson off to make coffee18:43
* gmb off to eat food18:44
danilosRinchen: my guess would be that most shipit users are coming from loginservice-email-sent.pt (i.e. after they have created an account, launchpad-users list is mentioned there)18:44
adeuring</quit leaving18:44
cprovsalgado: let's have a phone call to talk about the python-apt dependency ?18:44
jtvdanilos: we could at least check if those people have accounts...18:45
jtvif they don't, something really weird is going on.18:45
jtvlike spammers filling out the form hoping it'll send their messages to people.18:45
danilosjtv: well, they might not be activated yet, because that page specifically advises them to read their email and then activate their accounts18:46
Rinchendanilos, interesting....18:46
jtvdanilos: but those in-progress accounts would still show up somewhere, right?  It'd give us even more information.18:46
danilosjtv: yeah, but I don't want to discuss too much details, then somebody will ask me to do it :)18:46
* jtv shuts up18:47
=== thumper is now known as thumper-afk
salgadocprov, can it be tomorrow?18:49
cprovsalgado: okay, np, I will ping you tomorrow.18:50
salgadocprov, you might want to subscribe to bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/meta-lp-deps/+bug/193324, btw18:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193324 in meta-lp-deps "Require dpkg and lzma dependencies on launchpad-dependencies pacakge" [Undecided,New]18:51
cprovsalgado: right, thanks18:52
=== thumper-afk is now known as thumper
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk
=== cprov is now known as cprov-out

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