[00:40] <bspencer> someone have a link to the hardy PPA?
[00:44] <StevenK> In terms of what?
[00:45] <bspencer> hey StevenK 
[00:45] <bspencer> if I want to browse the hardy PPA, what's the link?
[00:45] <bspencer> https://ppa.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile  
[00:45] <bspencer> ?
[00:45] <StevenK> Hey. The link is https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/+archive
[00:46] <bspencer> th
[00:46] <bspencer> x
[00:46]  * bspencer bookmarks
[00:47] <bspencer> StevenK, I see you updated marquee-plugins
[00:48] <StevenK> I think Bill did too
[00:48] <bspencer> I just built  ahardy image and was trying it.  The screen is all white.  
[00:48] <bspencer> but the marquee-plugins that got installed were v0.21, not v0.22 (latest from you)
[00:48] <StevenK> Were you pulling from the PPA or a mirror of the PPA?
[00:49] <bspencer> good Q
[00:49] <bspencer>  http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports hardy main 
[00:50] <bspencer> btw, are these changes back in the moblin version, or if I re-push a new version will it be broken again?
[00:56] <StevenK> That's not the PPA, that's Hardy
[01:03] <StevenK> bspencer: You have to be pulling from the PPA - marquee-plugins is 0.4 in Hardy, but 0.22 in the PPA
[01:03] <StevenK> (Was 0.21 until I uploaded it)
[01:04] <bspencer> StevenK, ok.  Where is the location of the PPA stored ?  /etc/apt/...?
[01:04] <StevenK> bspencer: It's probably /etc/apt/sources.list.d/um-ppa.list ?
[01:04] <bspencer> so I can answer the Q of whethre I'm using a PPA or a mirror of the PPA?
[01:05] <bspencer> ok.  perhaps I just built the target before you made the updates.
[01:05] <StevenK> Yeah. Bill also made some updates to the PPA, so I'd suggest a new target
[01:09] <bspencer> ok
[01:12] <bspencer> StevenK, if you make changes to marquee-plugins, did you send me those changes?
[01:12] <bspencer> or am I supposed to monitor those apps in the PPA and figure out what is going on?
[01:16] <StevenK> bspencer: I can send you a patch
[01:17] <bspencer> StevenK, cool.  I was going to update marquee-plugins and mobile-basic-flash, but now I can't because my version seems to be broken per your changes.
[01:20] <StevenK> bspencer: There's a marquee-plugins.patch in my home directory on moblin.org. You'll need to use patch -p3 to apply it
[01:22] <bspencer> StevenK, ok
[01:22] <bspencer> is this hardy-specific?
[01:22] <bspencer> Use Type=default rather than Type=link in the .desktop files.
[01:22] <StevenK> I suspect it is
[02:00] <bspencer> asac, ping
[06:33] <dholbach> good morning
[14:23] <bjakob> .
[15:22] <bjakob> hello?
[15:38] <Thecks> Hi.
[16:50] <kyleN> rusty_out: question on moblin-media. can't launch it now from command line or moblin home UI. "Error: application is disabled while in docking mode". Do you know anything about this? 
[16:58] <patm> kyleN, they are all at the open source conference
[16:58] <kyleN> ah
[16:58] <GrueMaster> so there's no meeting today?
[16:59] <kyleN> (hope springs eternal ; )
[16:59] <GrueMaster> heh
[16:59] <patm> there is a meeting planned, not sure who is attending yet
[16:59] <agoliveira> GrueMaster: We do have it AFAIK.
[17:00] <GrueMaster> well, until then...  patm, still seeing slow issues with webcam capture?
[17:02] <lool> (davidm is coming)
[17:02] <davidm> #startmeeting
[17:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 17:02. The chair is davidm.
[17:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[17:02] <davidm> Sorry in different TZ
[17:02] <ToddBrandt> oy
[17:03] <davidm> OK here we go
[17:03] <davidm> ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB. (carryover)
[17:03] <davidm> [Topic] ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB. (carryover)
[17:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB. (carryover) 
[17:03] <davidm> ChickenCutlass, any status?
[17:04] <patm> he's coming
[17:04] <davidm> OK
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> sorry
[17:04] <davidm> NP
[17:04] <ChickenCutlass> no -- I was on vacation and have not gotten to it yet
[17:04] <davidm> OK, I'll carry over until next week
[17:04] <davidm> [action]   ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB. (carryover) 
[17:04] <MootBot> ACTION received:    ChickenCutlass to to produce boot charts for squashfs vs ext3 for hardy CB. (carryover)  
[17:05] <davidm> [topic] cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results
[17:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  cwong1, attempt to create an lang pack to report back next week with results 
[17:05] <cwong1_> I was able to patched the firefox chinese lang pack and made it work with midbrowser. All I had to do was to add midbrowser's guid and version number to the install.rdf.  So creating a debian install package for the lang. pack should be fairly straight forward.
[17:05] <davidm> great news
[17:05] <cwong1_> btw, most of us are in a confierence
[17:06] <cwong1_> and has limited internet access
[17:06] <lool> cwong1_: For the whole of this meeting?
[17:06] <davidm> lool, I think they are off site.
[17:06] <cwong1_> y
[17:06] <patm> cwong1_, is bspencer available?
[17:06] <lool> cwong1_: The two people I see in the list of actions from last week would also be ToddBrandt and mawhalen
[17:07] <ToddBrandt> lool: I'm here
[17:07] <lool> Cool
[17:07] <cwong1_> I dont thnk mawhalen or bspecer wil be online.
[17:07] <davidm> [topic] asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week.
[17:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week. 
[17:07] <lool> cwong1_: Please wave hello to them and suggest that read the meeting notes then
[17:07] <lool> cwong1_: (and have fun!)
[17:07] <kyleN> davidm: can you please carry over mawhalen's action then? 
[17:07] <cwong1_> ok
[17:08] <davidm> kyleN, I will
[17:08] <davidm> asac, you about?
[17:08] <davidm> Looks like I'll have to carry that forward
[17:09] <davidm> [action] davidm to contact asac and get status of asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this.
[17:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm to contact asac and get status of asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this. 
[17:09] <davidm> [action] asac report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week. (carry over)
[17:09] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week. (carry over) 
[17:09] <davidm> [topic] kyleN will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting.
[17:09] <lool> asac: Are you around?
[17:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  kyleN will sum the executive steps for i18n for GMA and lool to review them before posting. 
[17:10] <kyleN> lool and I independently wrote up wiki pages on i18n code for Mobile. There are some differences in content and some overlap. Mine is somewhat broader scope; lool's has additional programming details, such as setting up configure.in/.ac and Makefile.am. Where the technical content overlaps, defer to lool. I hope to merge them when/if I get the chance. For now, here are the two URLs...
[17:10] <kyleN> mine: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode
[17:10] <lool> NB: these are temporary URLs
[17:10] <kyleN> lool's: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nQuickstart
[17:10] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode
[17:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nMobileCode 
[17:10] <lool> We'll merge them in one page
[17:10] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nQuickstart
[17:10] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/I18nQuickstart 
[17:10] <davidm> OK
[17:11] <davidm> [topic] ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week.
[17:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  ToddBrandt to continue building i18n infrastucture to match the gnome-control-center one by next week. 
[17:11] <davidm> ToddBrandt, I saw your email looks like this has happened?
[17:11] <ToddBrandt> davidm: moblin-applets 0.41 has the same level of internationalization as gnome-control-center now
[17:11] <ToddBrandt> yea
[17:11] <asac> davidm: sorry ... i am here
[17:11] <lool> I pulled moblin-applets from git and reviewed the intltool integration; it looks way better and ToddBrandt reported success anyway :)
[17:11] <ToddBrandt> it just has a few strings that aren't translated
[17:11] <davidm> OK
[17:12] <lool> ToddBrandt: I sent a few hints on your issues to the mailing list in reply to your report
[17:12] <davidm> asac, wait one please and I'll reopen your topic
[17:12] <asac> davidm: thx
[17:12] <ToddBrandt> lool: ok thanks, I'll take a look
[17:12] <lool> ToddBrandt: I think only technical details are remaining; the bulk is done
[17:13] <lool> You even cd po; intltool-update -p on build, so technically your package is ready for Launchpad imports
[17:13] <kyleN> yahoo!
[17:13] <ToddBrandt> lool: yea, IO just haven't been able to test it, that's my biggest hurdle
[17:13] <lool> ToddBrandt: You can now be official i18n counselor for moblin folks :)
[17:13] <ToddBrandt> :)
[17:14] <davidm> We OK to move on?
[17:14]  * lool is ok
[17:14] <davidm> [topic] asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week.
[17:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  asac) report on code to create XPI from LP exports or look around for help to complete this and report back next week. 
[17:14] <asac> ok the discussion looked good and i think we figured a viable way to get this for hardy
[17:15] <asac> if possible i would like to get help from someone writing some tiny piece of software
[17:15] <asac> that basically converts .po files to xpi structures. i have an algorithm for that in mind.  so its just a matter of parsing
[17:15] <asac> sedding and testing
[17:15] <lool> asac: We need a similar piece of software for the rest of the mobile langpack strategy
[17:16] <lool> asac: In fact Hildon + OpenOffice.org + Firefox should all be handled by langpack-o-matics hooks, and I had the same discussion as yours with pitti
[17:16] <asac> i expect that the work needed for this script that produces xpis from .po about 1-2 days development up front and then another day or two for bug fixes
[17:16] <lool> asac: The only part I'm not confortable with is the actual XPI format reading/writing
[17:16] <asac> and shaking out any issues
[17:17] <asac> yes, all mozilla translations will be hooked into langpack-o-matic
[17:17] <lool> asac: Do you think pitti can help with this or are you looking for help in the mobile team?
[17:17] <asac> i talked to pitti about that
[17:17] <asac> he will provides the hooks
[17:17] <agoliveira> I would like to help but I reallysuck at things good for parsing and regular expressions
[17:17] <lool> the hook support I guess, but not the actual hooks?
[17:17] <asac> launchpad teams makes the required changes to the xpi import/po export
[17:17] <asac> lool: depends on how you define it
[17:18] <asac> we should provide a script that can transform .po files to xpi directories
[17:18] <lool> He's going to change lang-o-matic to call into code we have to write or that he writes?
[17:18] <lool> Right
[17:18] <lool> We have to write :)
[17:18] <asac> and might need to adjust what arguments that script gets
[17:18] <asac> pitti will than hook that in
[17:18] <asac> well ... its simple
[17:18] <asac> i just need someone to code what i say ;)
[17:18] <asac> 1-2 days development i think PLUS another day for fixes later
[17:18] <lool> Ok; is anyone willing to take this?
[17:19] <lool> Probably involves python or at least perl I'd guess
[17:19] <asac> you just need some shell scripting experience or perl or python
[17:19] <asac> doesn't matter much i guess
[17:19] <davidm> asac, just script (bash) or does it have to be python?
[17:19] <agoliveira> lool: As I said, I would love to but this is really my weak spot.
[17:19] <lool> (Not at it couldn't be done in shell or something else, but langpack-o-matic is in python and I'd guess perl is available)
[17:19] <asac> davidm: its really straight foward. even bash should be enough
[17:19] <davidm> I can help if in bash, not python
[17:20] <davidm> lets take it off line in email, and we will get it covered somehow.
[17:20] <lool> davidm: So you want to put the 1/2 days of dev + 1 day of fixes?
[17:20] <asac> ok ... i can write the general algorithm down and provide you with example input files
[17:20] <davidm> Yea, no one else has time
[17:20] <davidm> asac, OK
[17:20] <agoliveira> I volunteer to do it, just don't know how yet :)
[17:20] <asac> davidm: agoliveira ok ... just say who :)
[17:21] <lool> [action for second week of march?]
[17:21] <davidm> [action] asac to proivide the general algorithm down and provide you with example input files to mobile list email
[17:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to proivide the general algorithm down and provide you with example input files to mobile list email 
[17:21] <asac> thanks
[17:21] <lool> cool
[17:21] <asac> one more point. this will likely work for all mozilla packages
[17:21] <asac> no idea about hildon
[17:21] <lool> asac: Next topics might interest you as they are about the same issue
[17:21] <asac> lool: we should probably talk to that later
[17:21] <davidm> [action] davidm & agoliveira to look at same and get script written by next week
[17:21] <asac> ok
[17:21] <MootBot> ACTION received:  davidm & agoliveira to look at same and get script written by next week 
[17:21] <agoliveira> asac: Who can be me, how it's the problem :)
[17:22] <agoliveira> I guess this is my clue force myself to learn python
[17:23] <agoliveira> s/clue/clue to
[17:23] <asac> :)
[17:23] <davidm> agoliveira, bash :-) no python 
[17:23]  * ToddBrandt wonders why everything can't just be in C
[17:23] <asac> ToddBrandt: you volunteer?
[17:23] <asac> :)
[17:23] <agoliveira> ToddBrandt: I rather chew glass to parse stuff in C.
[17:23]  * lool wonders whether ToddBrandt would like his airbag segfaulting
[17:23] <davidm> [topic] lool to reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki. 
[17:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool to reformat detailed notes user interface string changes post freeze and post to Ubuntu wiki.  
[17:24] <lool> (assembly for the win)
[17:24] <GrueMaster> ToddBrandt:  I agree
[17:24]  * ToddBrandt apparantly wonders alone
[17:24] <lool> So, I actually did my two actions in a single shot!  :-P
[17:24] <lool> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
[17:24] <agoliveira> I can do it in Pascal very quickly ;)
[17:24] <lool> The story is that we want langpacks if we want to use launchpad translations on that scale anyway
[17:24] <lool> So, I documented known issues and TODOs to implement langpacks
[17:25] <davidm> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
[17:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack 
[17:25] <lool> And also how to continue working with launchpad after the freezes
[17:25] <kyleN> way to go lool!
[17:25] <davidm> OK next
[17:26] <davidm> [topic] lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules.
[17:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  lool kyleN to research if need to configure the seed into the LP Ubuntu export to get tarballs for the mobile seed, then update the rules. 
[17:27] <lool> So I discussed this with misc people and documented how to achieve this on the same wiki page
[17:27] <lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack
[17:27] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/MobileLangpack 
[17:27] <davidm> Great
[17:27] <kyleN> when will we decide whether we will use mobile lang packs?
[17:27] <lool> There's a lot of work to do for langpacks
[17:27] <lool> I also documented the space savings which I asked Arne
[17:28] <lool> He says we would win in the 10 MBs on the installed system
[17:28] <lool> (But you have to take compression into account)
[17:28] <kyleN> lool, was that space savings just for one language?
[17:28] <kyleN> german
[17:28] <lool> kyleN: I don't understand
[17:29] <lool> Oh, yes, for one language
[17:29] <lool> Less if you want multiple languages obviously
[17:29] <lool> One big issue we discovered is that Hildon misses many po/pot files in our archive because these are split weirdly upstream
[17:29] <kyleN> if the choice is put all languages on board vs use lang packs to download, tehn teh space savings is more
[17:29] <kyleN> maybe 10M per language
[17:29] <lool> So there are many TODOs at the bottom of the wiki page to build maps of where to find pot, and we then have to package or merge these sources
[17:30] <lool> kyleN: I don't think so; I think it's 10 MB uncompressed if you install german alone for our apps instead of german for gnome langpack + common langpack
[17:31] <patm> so if I have an install with two languages, I save 20MBs
[17:31] <lool> So it's 10 MB less than using the standard langpacks, but it's not compared to how much it would use to not use langpacks at all
[17:31] <patm> thats not a lot of disk
[17:31] <lool> patm: Depends what you compare to; but if you compare to the common + gnome langpacks, yes
[17:32] <lool> langpacks are a huge effort because of Hildon
[17:32] <patm> lool, what other comparison is there to consider?
[17:32] <lool> patm: Well we could for example ship all translations of cheese in cheese itself if it's in universe or in our ppa
[17:33] <lool> patm: Is 10 / 20 MB worthwhile to fight for?
[17:33] <lool> Or even 30 MB in the best case
[17:33] <patm> lool I am thinking not
[17:33] <lool> We still have to do the work as Hildon is in main and will be langpacked
[17:34] <lool> But the part of the work requiring to change l-o-m to use seeds or to have a special "copy" behavior for mobile could be skipped
[17:34] <lool> saving some 1.5 days of Martin Pitt
[17:35] <lool> Ok; so there's a long list of TODOs; the consensus is that we might not need to spend time creating mobile specific langpacks
[17:35]  * agoliveira agrees
[17:35] <lool> The other TODOs to have Hildon langpackable are still open; do we have to assign them now, or is the research enough for our current state?
[17:36] <lool> Who has some resources to build e.g. the Hildon module => needed gettext domains map?
[17:36] <lool> Or to package the remaining hildon modules carrying translations?
[17:36] <lool> Or to write the scripts similar to the XPI ones which will convert Hildon pots into normal pots?
[17:36] <bfiller> lool: maybe needs to get added to the other remaining hildon tasks (next topic)
[17:37] <davidm> makes sense
[17:37] <lool> Hmm
[17:37] <kyleN> i can find and list the domains used by current hildon packages we use
[17:37] <lool> Mithrandir: What do you think?  Should we assign the Hildon langpacks action I prepared to the same people as Hildon 2.0 modules?
[17:38] <lool> kyleN: cool
[17:38] <lool> davidm: Can you action kyleN to prepare a mapping of hildon source packages to gettext domains?
[17:38] <lool> kyleN: Oh and can you please list where the gettext domains are in maemo too?
[17:38] <kyleN> I'll try ;)
[17:39] <davidm> [action]  kyleN to prepare a mapping of hildon source packages to gettext domains, and list where the gettext domains are in maemo.
[17:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:   kyleN to prepare a mapping of hildon source packages to gettext domains, and list where the gettext domains are in maemo. 
[17:39] <davidm> [topic] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover)
[17:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover) 
[17:39] <lool> Let's discuss the other actions here
[17:40] <bfiller> Mithrandir: you around?
[17:42] <lool> giving a phone call
[17:42] <davidm> lool, is phoning him.  Today is a phone day....
[17:42] <bfiller> davidm: doesn't look like the wiki page with the hildon task list has been updated
[17:42] <agoliveira> davidm: Not really, my is mute now despite my adsl is ok. Go figure.
[17:42] <bfiller> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Hildon2.0
[17:42] <mjg59> Tollef was feeling unwell earlier
[17:42] <lool> No reponse, and can't leave a message
[17:42] <agoliveira> s/my/mine
[17:43] <lool> mjg59: Oh indeed, I completely forgot
[17:43] <lool> He mentionned feeling half sick
[17:43] <lool> So, I propose we carry on and reassign to me next week if we fail again?
[17:43] <davidm> OK, will do
[17:44] <bfiller> lool: the clock is ticking and it's been over two weeks now..
[17:44] <bfiller> just concernered there is a lot of work to do and we need to start
[17:44] <davidm> [action] Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover address this wek in email)
[17:44] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Mithrandir to split up remaining Hildon packages that need to be upgraded amongst everybody except people who claim they are busy with other things. (carryover address this wek in email) 
[17:44] <lool> Ok, reassign to me; I might defer til monday though, I'll try catching Tollef tomorrow or do it tomorrow/monday
[17:44] <lool> davidm: I'll try to do it nevertheless
[17:45] <lool> Ok, next topic
[17:45] <davidm> lool, geeo enough
[17:45] <bfiller> lool: thanks, I'll help with some if needed and I believe moblin guys will too
[17:45] <davidm> [action] lool to follow up and take over for Mithrandir if necessary.
[17:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to follow up and take over for Mithrandir if necessary. 
[17:45]  * agoliveira too if necessary.
[17:45] <davidm> OK next topic
[17:46] <davidm> [topic] mawhalen to followup on when theme tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with sabotage (Shane Bryan)
[17:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  mawhalen to followup on when theme tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with sabotage (Shane Bryan) 
[17:46] <davidm> carryonver
[17:46] <davidm> [action] carryover mawhalen to followup on when theme tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with sabotage (Shane Bryan)
[17:46] <MootBot> ACTION received:  carryover mawhalen to followup on when theme tools are updated, and then gen a new theme using the tools with sabotage (Shane Bryan) 
[17:46] <davidm> [topic] bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems.
[17:46] <MootBot> New Topic:  bfiller to file bug on gutsy/hardy dbus problems. 
[17:47] <bfiller> done LP: 196280
[17:47] <davidm> any action so far?
[17:48] <bfiller> davidm: not yet, but I didn't have a chance to file it until yesterday. I assigned to moblin-image-creator, but not sure if this is the right package
[17:48] <davidm> OK, thanks
[17:48] <lool> bfiller: Against MIC?
[17:48] <bfiller> lool: yes
[17:48] <lool> Why not, but we might want to poke dbus people
[17:49] <bfiller> lool: who are the dbus people exactly?
[17:49] <lool> Done
[17:49] <lool> bfiller: I know some Debian folks and pitti for Ubuntu
[17:49] <lool> Dunno who else
[17:49] <lool> (At least down to the dbus message issues level)
[17:50] <lool> Otherwise, desktop people know about general dbus packaging and usage
[17:50] <davidm> lool, will you poke the dbus folks then?
[17:50] <lool> I just did
[17:50] <lool> I added the dbus package
[17:50] <davidm> ah :-)
[17:50] <bfiller> lool: thanks
[17:50] <davidm> Thanks
[17:50] <lool> Discussion to continue in the bug
[17:50] <davidm> OK that is all the old business, now on to new
[17:51] <davidm> [topic] (lool) Cebit attendance
[17:51] <MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) Cebit attendance 
[17:51] <lool> So, some informed person reminded us that Cebit is approaching fast
[17:51] <lool> Is anyone from community or Canonical attending?
[17:51] <lool> I know a non-mobile Canonical person is going unofficially
[17:52] <davidm> We can check the canonical internal wiki to see who if any are attending 
[17:52] <lool> We might have some demoes of images derived from UME Community Edition (or whatever we call it)
[17:52] <bfiller> patm: does Fenario have plans to go?
[17:52] <patm> no, I am not aware of any official canonical presence
[17:53] <davidm> Looks like Matt Barker is attending
[17:53] <lool> Ok; topic closed for me
[17:53] <GrueMaster> on a similar note.
[17:53] <davidm> [topic] (lool) version numbers in the ppa
[17:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) version numbers in the ppa 
[17:53] <GrueMaster> LinuxFest NW is coming in April
[17:54] <lool> So, please please please don't use Debian/main Ubuntu version numbers for ppa uploads
[17:54] <lool> We should have ONE version number for ONE source tree
[17:54] <lool> If there's any chance that someone else uses the same version number, don't use it! :)
[17:55] <lool> One recent example in the ppa were the grub uploads
[17:55] <agoliveira> lool: Maybe will be clearer if you provide an example.
[17:55] <davidm> GrueMaster, can you send the info to the mailing list please, I don't know about that show.
[17:55] <GrueMaster> roger that.
[17:55] <lool> The problem with bumping version numbers with -2, -3 etc. in the ppa is that if someone uploads a high urgency fix to hardy with -1ubuntu2, -1ubuntu3 etc as expected, we wont get it
[17:56] <lool> I'll try to document this properly on our wiki or look for existing doc
[17:56] <lool> If you have a doubt, append "um1" to the version
[17:56] <lool> or "+um1", it's the same
[17:56] <lool> The only case where you should use um1 is when backporting between dists (hardy sources into gutsy)
[17:57] <lool> Where you should use ~; that's the only case, at the moment appending "um1" and incrementing should work!
[17:57] <lool> Thanks for your attention
[17:57] <lool> I can get an action for the doc part
[17:57] <bfiller> lool: does this apply to moblin packages as well? i.s. should marquee-plugins_24 be marquee-plugins-24um1?
[17:57] <lool> Technically, we shouldn't use native versionning for Ubuntu uploads
[17:57] <davidm> [action] lool to document versioning in the ppa into wiki
[17:57] <MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to document versioning in the ppa into wiki 
[17:58] <lool> But at the moment, moblin apps are not really "released"
[17:58] <lool> So we can't really distinguish between Ubuntu versions and upstream versions because moblin/upstream folks upload one upstream version to Ubuntu
[17:58] <lool> But Ubuntu folks can't always do this, so it's a bit of a problem
[17:58] <bfiller> are all of the moblin packages going into universe or main for Hardy?
[17:58] <bfiller> or just staying in PPA?
[17:58] <lool> We should try to push most I guess
[17:59] <lool> But this requires MOTUs or core devs which we have little of
[17:59] <davidm> I believe all going into mail were possible
[17:59] <agoliveira> bfiller: PPA is just temporary and test AFAIK.
[17:59] <lool> StevenK and I can do both
[17:59] <davidm> OK next topic?
[17:59] <lool> Yes
[17:59] <lool> Which is closely related :)
[17:59] <bfiller> thanks for clarification
[17:59] <davidm> [topic] (lool) overwriting changes in ppa packages
[17:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  (lool) overwriting changes in ppa packages 
[18:00] <lool> (We would have to discuss proper releases with moblin, but for now I guess we'll have to live on with moblin native versions in the ppa)
[18:00] <lool> So, when uploading changes to the ppa, please make sure you don't regress the packages by simply overwriting with whatever you want to upload
[18:00] <lool> Usually, we want to merge the changes in the ppa with the new upstream release
[18:01] <lool> Say, StevenK did some fixes to a package in the ppa, don't just push your source over it, you should check what's in the ppa and merge with your upload
[18:01] <lool> This is again a bit problematic because if StevenK has a fix, he might not be able to commit it to the upstream source tree for moblin modules
[18:01] <davidm> very true
[18:01] <bfiller> lool: I just ran into this problem
[18:01] <lool> For non-moblin modules, it should be pretty straightforward though: grab the source from the ppa, do your changes, and upload
[18:02] <bfiller> lool: I grabbed source from PPA, made changes, uploaded, and sent moblin the patches
[18:02] <lool> For moblin projects, we need to fix it one way or the other: either we all commit to the autoritative git (but then we would need access)
[18:02] <lool> Or we all push to the ppa and moblin keeps moblin commit right, but moblin folks need to carefully merge the ppa changes with their new upstreams
[18:02] <bfiller> would be great if we could get commit priveleges
[18:03] <davidm> I think we need to have this conversation next week with more of Intel here too.
[18:03] <lool> So would there be foo 2.0-0ubuntu2 in the ppa, they would have to fetch it, merge it into 2.1-0ubuntu1, and upload this instead of pushing 2.1-1
[18:03] <lool> davidm: definitely
[18:03] <davidm> [action] revisit this topic next week with Intel developers present.
[18:03] <MootBot> ACTION received:  revisit this topic next week with Intel developers present. 
[18:03] <lool> We need to decide what's the autoritative place for moblin modules (git or ppa) and everybody uses that
[18:04] <davidm> OK are we safe to move on.
[18:04] <davidm> ?
[18:04] <lool> Yes
[18:04] <agoliveira> If at least a few of us have comit access there, would be a bit of PITA but at elast would end the confusuon
[18:04] <GrueMaster> One problem you will run into is there are two moblin source trees.
[18:04] <davidm> [topic] (bfiller) testing packages on Hardy before promoting to PPA
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  (bfiller) testing packages on Hardy before promoting to PPA 
[18:04] <GrueMaster> One internal and one external.
[18:05] <bfiller> folks need to make sure they test against Hardy (not GUTSY) before pushing to the PPA
[18:05] <davidm> That is an issue that we need to solve next week for sure.  GrueMaster thanks
[18:05] <lool> GrueMaster: Ah, that's interesting; if you can think of a solution, could you expose it next week when more Intel people are around?
[18:06] <lool> GrueMaster: As an insider, you might have a clearer idea of what needs fixing here
[18:06] <davidm> bfiller, I plan on bringing this up on my call with Intel later today.
[18:06] <GrueMaster> I think the solution was already hit upon.  Patch the PPA and send the patch to the moblin mailing list.
[18:06] <bfiller> moblin guys pushed packages that broke the image (mobile-basic-flash, marquee-plugins). Clearing didn't test first
[18:06] <bfiller> davidm: great, thanks
[18:06] <agoliveira> Gutsy for us is dead meat a long time agoa lready.
[18:06] <GrueMaster> but I'll bring it up next week.
[18:06] <davidm> GrueMaster, thanks
[18:06] <lool> GrueMaster: Thanks
[18:06] <ToddBrandt> bfiller: which of these is the correct platform for building a target and testing? mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy or mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa
[18:07] <davidm> Ok we are out of new topics and over time. so......
[18:07] <lool> bfiller: Thanks for bringing this up
[18:07] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: not sure actually, I'll have to check out nightly build scripts. Anyone else know?
[18:07] <lool> bfiller: This all comes up to the same best practices to follow topic
[18:07] <ToddBrandt> I've been using the latter: mccaslin-lpia-ubuntu-hardy-ppa
[18:08] <lool> ToddBrandt: I think the second one, it includes the ppa where most people push
[18:08] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: I think that is correct, Hardy + PPA
[18:08] <ToddBrandt> I hope my push of mobil-basic-flash didn't break the image :(
[18:08] <bfiller> ToddBrandt: nope, wasn't yours. bspencer :)
[18:08] <ToddBrandt> cool ;)
[18:08] <GrueMaster> I do a daily build for menlow-lpia-ubuntu-ppa, and smoke test it weekly.  I have noticed this problem for quite a while.
[18:08] <ToddBrandt> I'll make fun of him later
[18:09] <lool> ToddBrandt: If it pushes him to test his packages, please do :)
[18:09] <davidm> The upload of last week broke stuff
[18:09] <agoliveira> May I bring in a dunce hat?
[18:09] <davidm> It was tested against gutsy and not hardy
[18:10] <davidm> Ok bringing the meeting to a close.   Going once.......
[18:10] <ToddBrandt> you should make a list of packages that break the build, then bring it up in the meeting, that'll improve testing guaranteed
[18:10] <davidm> OK
[18:10] <lool> Salary indexed on critical bugs count
[18:10] <davidm> Ok bringing the meeting to a close.   Going twice.....
[18:11] <davidm> #closemeeting
[18:11] <davidm> #endmeeting
[18:11] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:11.
[18:13] <lool> davidm: Thanks
[18:13] <davidm> lool, thank you for the call
[18:13] <GrueMaster> patm:  Back to my question prior to the meeting, are you still seeing issues with video capture via webcam in cheese?
[18:13] <patm> GrueMaster, hey, no, with the latest graphics drivers things seem ok
[18:14] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, do you know where bugs for the kernel in Ubuntu Mobile would go?
[18:14] <GrueMaster> cool
[18:14] <patm> GrueMaster, different question...
[18:14] <GrueMaster> Last chance I had to do any research on it was early January.
[18:14] <GrueMaster> shoot
[18:14] <patm> GrueMaster, in the latest Flash for Linux it supports hw acceleration....
[18:14] <GrueMaster> Does it?
[18:14] <patm> is this in any way supported under menlow
[18:14] <patm> acc to adobe
[18:15] <patm> http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/
[18:15] <GrueMaster> I'll check into it.  You may need the 3D drivers installed, which AFAIK aren't released for general consumption yet.
[18:16] <GrueMaster> I do know that you need the 3d drivers for Helix support.
[18:16] <patm> Well we have those
[18:16] <GrueMaster> which release?
[18:16] <patm> GrueMaster, appreciate it if you can find anything out
[18:17] <patm> beta 6?
[18:17] <GrueMaster> ok.  Beta 7 "should" be out soon (I think).  I've tested it here, but didn't see any major changes to Beta 6.  I think it was more for D0 support.
[18:19] <GrueMaster> As to the flash HW acceleration, I think it will only help for movies and streaming video, not the flash animations that some GUI environments do.
[18:20] <GrueMaster> But I'll check it out here this week.
[18:20] <patm> GrueMaster, thanks
[18:21] <patm> GrueMaster, as far as beta 7, I was hoping for an update later today, but do you know what was fixed? We have some flaky D0's right now
[18:21] <GrueMaster> No, I don't.
[18:21] <GrueMaster> I just get them and build them.
[18:21] <patm> ok
[18:22] <GrueMaster> Who do you usually get them from, Don Johnson or Chris Watkins?  Or someone else?
[18:23] <patm> yes, via ARMs
[18:24] <patm> GrueMaster, or packaged from moblin guys
[18:24] <patm> but not the proprietary parts
[18:24] <GrueMaster> I'll ping them and let them know the packages are available.  There may be other holdups that are out of my control.
[18:25] <patm> GrueMaster, again, thanks
[18:25] <GrueMaster> Remember, I'm just a lowly peon here (who just happens to have a brain).
[18:25] <GrueMaster> :P
[21:25] <atlas95> hello
[21:25] <atlas95> How to test ubuntu mobile? I have a nokia n810 , is it possible to install UM on it in the future?
[21:26] <GrueMaster> UM is geared towards Intel 32bit architecture currently.  In the future, other platforms may be included, but for now, no.
[21:26] <agoliveira> atlas95: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ
[21:26] <atlas95> yes ok
[21:26] <atlas95> I have just find it scuse :(
[21:27] <atlas95> What can I buy for install UM on it in the futur
[21:27] <atlas95> I will sell my n810 i think :(
[21:33] <atlas95> Samsung Q1 Ultra is very expensive :(
[21:35] <GrueMaster> You could check out the Asus Eee.  $399 at best buy online.  It has a different flavor of Linux, but this will run on it.  New platforms will be out later this year that UM will take full advantage of.
[21:52] <atlas95> ho cool