[00:00] <spiv> I know it used to come up frequently, this is the first report I've seen in a while.
[00:02] <beuno> oh, could be
[00:02] <beuno> time is a very slippery thing lately
[00:47] <seydar> how does bazaar compare to git?
[00:47] <seydar> seriously, i have only used git, but bazaar has a cooler name
[00:47] <jdong> lol
[00:47] <fullermd> It's less salty, with more bite.
[00:47] <jdong> I find bzr's interface much easier to use, much more friendly
[00:47] <seydar> i want to name some project 'balthazaar'
[00:47] <jdong> it feels more high-level than git IMO
[00:48] <jdong> though the performance in my experience isn't as great
[00:48] <beuno> seydar, maybe something like this will help: http://bazaar-vcs.org/BzrVsGit
[00:48] <seydar> is there a sample session online?
[00:48] <seydar> ooh windows support. i'm not too fond of supporting windows ;-)
[00:48] <spiv> seydar: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/en/mini-tutorial/index.html
[00:48] <spiv> seydar: that's a tutorial called "Bazaar in five minutes"
[00:49] <jdong> I really disliked git's way of committing things before I expected it to commit
[00:49] <spiv> seydar: there's other documentation at http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/latest/
[00:49] <jdong> I've recently started using git for dealing with subversion... I've found its performance to be more acceptable when paired with svn versus bzr-svn
[00:49] <jdong> but at the same time, I grumble about git's UI every 5 minutes
[00:50] <seydar> does bazaar have a witty hat, like
[00:50] <seydar> 'git 'er done' from larry the cable guy?
[00:50] <jdong> I believe they do sell t-shirts like that :)
[00:51] <jdong> and what's up with git's refusal to acknowledge empty directories exist? :)
[00:51] <seydar> i saw linus torvalds in one
[00:51]  * beuno wonders if igc will take the bzr tshirts to the sprint
[00:51] <seydar> ok. so bazaar it is
[00:51] <fullermd> I think it's a side effect of refusing to acknowledge directories exist.
[00:52] <jdong> lol
[00:52] <jdong> as I said, I've been looking at git lately for my subversion interactions with large svn repos
[00:52] <fullermd> Actually, who DOES treat directories directly as entities?  bzr does, mtn does...  I don't think hg does...
[00:52] <bob2> also file identity
[00:52] <jdong> but only because I'm kinda forced to
[00:53] <seydar> balthazar is such a badass name
[00:53] <seydar> whats mtn?
[00:53] <igc> beuno: igc has no idea re tshirts sorry
[00:54] <jdong> monotone I believe
[00:54] <bob2> seydar: monotone (venge.net)
[00:54]  * fullermd nods.
[00:54] <jdong> seydar: btw, you do acknowledge the implications of asking #bzr whether to use bzr or git, right? :D
[00:55] <seydar> totally
[00:55] <jdong> but I really do think we're giving an objective opinion, if there is ever such a thing
[00:56] <fullermd> Which there isn't, on most things (especially UI), because they're inherently subjective.
[00:56] <fullermd> I mean, Tom Lord probably thinks arch has an easy and intuitive UI   ;)
[00:56] <jdong> haha
[00:56] <jdong> though I find that hard to believe!
[00:56] <fullermd> And he'd be right, for him.
[00:57] <fullermd> And most people would probably hate my GUI setup...  but it's perfect for me.
[00:58] <bob2> oh, and arch had directories as entities
[01:01] <seydar> thanks guys
[01:04] <beuno> igc, didn't you send an email a few months ago to send bzr tshirts for contributors?
[01:05] <fullermd> That was poolie I think.
[01:05] <igc> beuno: probably. If so, I did it on behalf of poolie
[01:05] <beuno> right, it was poolie.
[01:06] <beuno> not sure why I was convinced it was you
[01:06] <jelmer> it was poolie
[01:45] <Peng> Right, hg doesn't version directories.
[01:45]  * Peng wanders off.
[02:12] <awmcclain> What's the name of the other bzr GUI that isn't qbzr? wildfire or something?
[02:12] <spiv> wildcat, IIRC
[02:13] <beuno> awmcclain, or bzr-gtk?
[02:13] <awmcclain> wildcat!
[02:26]  * igc lunch
[03:31] <awmcclain> Hrm. I'm guessing wildcat doesn't work with 1.2.0... I get a "file not locked" exception when I try to diff.
[03:32] <beuno> awmcclain, I think it's a very alpha sort-of-thing at the moment
[03:40] <awmcclain> And bzr-gtk is x11, right?
[03:41] <Verterok> awmcclain: yes
[03:41] <spiv> awmcclain: it should work on any platform where pygtk works
[03:41] <spiv> Which includes win32 I believe.
[03:41] <awmcclain> I'm running os x but I'm not a huge fan of the x11 emulation. :)
[03:41] <spiv> (Although installing it might be a bit of a hassle)
[03:42] <awmcclain> So... it looks like i'll have to brave pyqt
[03:42] <RAOF> awmcclain: There's the native OS X gtk now, right?
[03:43] <awmcclain> RAOF: o really?
[03:43] <RAOF> If you don't mind less than fully tested code.  http://developer.imendio.com/projects/gtk-macosx/ is one google hit.
[03:44] <RAOF> I recently saw a blog post with native mac gtk screenshots, which is why I have any idea about this :).
[04:46] <carnage4ever> is there anyone around?
[04:50] <spiv> carnage4ever: yes
[05:03] <carnage4ever> spiv: trying to somehow get bzr to run a precommit shell script BEFORE commiting files...
[05:03] <carnage4ever> is that possible?
[05:07] <spiv> carnage4ever: it is, although you need a python plugin to do it.
[05:10] <spiv> carnage4ever: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/bazaar/2008q1/036955.html may help
[05:56] <ubotu> New bug: #196881 in bzr "Exception redirecting merge output to a file" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/196881
[08:33] <spiv> The protocol-v3 branch is ready for dogfooding.
[08:36] <lifeless> cool
[08:37] <dholbach> heya
[08:37] <dholbach> what answer is there to something like  http://pastebin.ca/923001 and http://rafb.net/p/6xkuJL96.html ?
[08:44] <spiv> dholbach: looks like a possible launchpad bug
[08:44] <dholbach> spiv: oh? how so?
[08:45] <spiv> dholbach: or maybe a bug in the launchpad plugin for the client
[08:46] <dholbach> is there any information I should try to get for it?
[08:46] <spiv> dholbach: but IIRC "lp--NNNN:..." URLs are a server-side implementation detail.
[08:46] <spiv> dholbach: "bzr info -v", and the actual bzr commands being run by that script
[08:47] <dholbach> bzr update; bzr commit -m "something" is what the script runs
[08:47] <dholbach> let me get the version
[08:48] <dholbach> spiv: http://rafb.net/p/LKucRO74.html
[08:51] <spiv> dholbach: yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a launchpad bug.  File it against launchpad-bazaar.
[08:52] <spiv> dholbach: as a workaround, hobbsee should be able to "bzr switch sftp://hobbsee@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7E5-a-day/5-a-day-data/main/"
[08:54] <dholbach> spiv: thanks a lot
[08:54] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/196913
[08:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 196913 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot lock LockDir(lp--1218658708:///~5-a-day/5-a-day-data/main/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport" [Undecided,New]
[08:54] <spiv> dholbach: thanks for the bug report
[08:54] <dholbach> de rien
[08:55] <spiv> dholbach: if you can get the particular bzr command that triggers the error in the bug report, that'd be good.
[08:56] <spiv> dholbach: or link to the add-5-a-day script
[08:57] <dholbach> done, thanks
[09:15] <lifeless> abentley: ping
[09:15] <lifeless> http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/request/<1203467195.15574.136.camel@lifeless-64>
[09:15] <lifeless> abentley: I think you had partially reviewed this
[09:16] <lifeless> dholbach: 5-a-day stuff should be faster now; we had some supermirror issues
[09:19] <dholbach> lifeless: rock and roll
[09:19] <dholbach> you guys kick ass
[09:22] <dholbach> lifeless (and others): do you think it's worth splitting up the branch into per-people-branches? (less possible locking issues)? we're at 53 committers now
[09:22] <lifeless> dholbach: are you having locking issues?
[09:23] <dholbach> lifeless: some people run into this every now and then (not that often yet, but I expect the project to grow)
[09:23] <lifeless> dholbach: bzr should handle it
[09:23] <dholbach> OK
[09:23] <lifeless> if it becomes a problem, then sure
[09:23] <dholbach> I'll keep you in the loop :)
[09:23] <lifeless> nag me to do 5 a day :)
[09:23] <dholbach> 5-a-day keeps the doctor away! :)
[09:24] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/5-A-Day#Log :)
[09:47] <dato> jelmer: hi. I've found the -r option for replay a tad confusing. its docs say "see help revisionspec", so I assumed it'd work as in merge, so that `replay -r 372..373` would replay just 373, but it replays both 372 and 373. -r 373 does what I want, but that's not how merge behaves. it does what -c 373 would do, but -c is not available in replay.
[09:47] <dato> jelmer: do you see what I mean?
[09:49] <lifeless> sounds cnfusing
[09:49] <lifeless> dato: send a patch :]
[09:56] <Peng> Hmm, looks like svn-import is up to something now.
[09:57]  * Peng wanders off, nervous of swapping to death suddenly.
[10:06]  * dato wonders if --overwrite will work well when pushing to svn.
[10:08]  * Peng wonders if converting 60k revisions with about 400 MB of free RAM is a good idea.
[10:09] <Peng> jelmer: Man, svn-import is way too verbose. It's averaging almost one line of output per day!
[10:18] <dato> revno: 371
[10:18] <dato> revision-id:dato@net.com.org.es-20080228115922-wi3npwo1rnfmilbg
[10:18] <dato> parent: dato@net.com.org.es-20080222115116-62obf3ebstr8l3lh
[10:18] <dato> a space has been lost after revision-id?
[10:19] <dato> jelmer: (also, any plans for a new bzr-svn in unstable? bzr can't migrate to testing without it)
[10:34] <jelmer> dato, this weekend
[10:35] <dato> ok
[10:35] <dato> jelmer: do you have a sec to tell me how/if I can solve this bzr-svn problem?
[10:37] <jelmer> dato: sure
[10:38] <dato> I had a bzr branch synced with a svn branch. my replay went bad (see above), and I replayed one more revision than desired. sadly, I pushed that to svn.
[10:39] <dato> so I replayed well in a copy of the bzr branch, and tried to push that (expecting to get the "branches have diverged" message), but it's just taking ages to do anything
[10:40] <dato> should I try with --overwrite directly, or... maybe svn rm, + svn cp -r $HEAD-2 ?
[10:41] <jelmer> dato: The argument to replay is a range of revisions and supporting -r272..273 to mean [272,273] makes sense to me
[10:41] <jelmer> dato: Patches for improvements are welcome though
[10:41] <jelmer> dato: It should just work
[10:41] <dato> what should work, sorry?
[10:43] <jelmer> dato: The push giving "Diverged Branches"
[10:43] <dato> and with --overwrite?
[10:46] <lifeless> jelmer: we use [from, to) for nearly everything else in bzrlib though
[10:46] <lifeless> jelmer: or (from, to] perhaps I should say
[10:46] <lifeless> jelmer: I think, that 'diff -r x..y' should show the aggreate changes that reply -r x..y will aply.
[10:48] <jelmer> lifeless: Yeah, consistency is also nice, indeed
[14:15] <asabil> is it normal that bzr-bookmarks doesn't work with bzr pull ?
[14:16] <lifeless> I don't know, what is bzr-bookmarks?
[14:18] <asabil> a bzr plugin
[14:18] <asabil> to have bookmarks
[14:18] <asabil> lifeless: also the launchpad plugin doesn't work with bzr pull
[14:18] <asabil> bzr pull lp:~easy-radio/easy-radio/bargraph
[14:18] <asabil> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/asabil/Devel/INSA/5IF/OT/easy-radio/trunk/lp:~easy-radio/easy-radio/bargraph/"
[14:41] <lifeless> asabil: you are missing the required dependencies for sftp for bzr
[14:42] <asabil> lifeless: ??? why ? I use the sftp transport all the time ?
[14:42] <asabil> python-paramiko is installed
[14:44] <lifeless> asabil: huh, interesting
[14:44] <lifeless> asabil: what does 'bzr plugins' list ?
[14:45] <asabil> svn, multiparent, launchpad, rebase, gtk, record, bzrtools, xmloutput, bookmarks
[14:48] <lifeless> asabil: this is very interesting. I think something is buggering up pull :)
[14:49] <asabil> let me disable xmloutput
[14:50] <asabil> no, that's not the cultpit
[14:51] <lifeless> bookmarks sounds like something inclined to diddle with pull
[14:52] <TFKyle> lifeless: there's a bug about it reported on lp iirc, pull doesn't like lp: uris
[14:53] <TFKyle> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/181945 if you havn't seen it yet
[14:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 181945 in bzr "bzr pull lp:upstart fails" [High,Confirmed]
[14:53] <asabil> lifeless: the bug was there before I installed bookmarks
[14:57] <lifeless> asabil: ah, interesting
[14:57] <lifeless> TFKyle: thanks
[14:58] <lifeless> seems to be pull not handling redirects
[14:59] <asabil> now it seems like lp's server is stalled or something :/
[15:00] <asabil> am unable to push
[15:01] <lifeless> asabil: checking
[15:02] <asabil> thanks
[15:04] <lifeless> asabil: yes, rogue process, fixing in a couple of minutes
[15:04] <lifeless> your lilnk may get bounced
[15:04] <asabil> oki
[15:04] <asabil> I interrupted already
[15:31] <lifeless> \asait should be faster now
[15:36] <Lo-lan-do> Hmmm.  "bzr pack" seems to make "bzr status" *slower*.
[15:37] <Lo-lan-do> Not much, but a bit.
[15:38] <poolie> Lo-lan-do: it may be forcing things out of memory?
[15:38] <Lo-lan-do> I ran it several times in a row :-)
[15:38] <Lo-lan-do> Both before and after the pack.
[15:39] <Lo-lan-do> It took about 0.58s before the pack, and it now takes 0.61s.
[15:40] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: pack and status use dufferent data; its almost certainly just measurement noise
[15:40] <lifeless> Lo-lan-do: specifically status won't read data from the repository
[15:40] <Lo-lan-do> Hm.  Okay :-)
[15:41] <mvo> bazaar.launchpad.net is refusing connections for me, does anyone else sees this too?
[15:41] <poolie> yes
[15:41] <poolie> we're working on it urgently
[15:42] <mvo> ok, thanks
[15:42] <poolie> bazaar.launchpad.net is down; it's being addressed urgently
[15:42] <poolie> sorry, paste error
[15:48] <lifeless> its back now
[15:59] <poolie> pqm.bazaar-vcs.org's invalid https cert looks worse under ff3
[16:03] <lifeless> poolie: yes it does :)
[17:16] <Verterok> awilkins: just to let you know, I pushed a BazaarClient with some fixes and command syntax updated to bzr-1.2
[18:02] <jdong> jelmer: have you considered upgrading or at least making available a packs version of bzr-svn's branch? :D
[18:02] <jdong> I'm in a low-patience branching mood today
[18:58] <poolie> night all
[18:58] <james_w> night poolie
[18:58] <james_w> have a safe journey
[19:03] <lifeless> night all
[19:03] <lifeless> james_w: we're in London now
[19:03] <james_w> ah, welcome.
[19:19] <thumper> what does: "899.934  not updating child fraction" in the .bzr.log file?
[19:34] <abentley> It's related to progress bars.  The details escape me.
[19:54] <jelmer> jdong: heh
[19:54] <jelmer> yeah, I guess it's about time to upgrade
[19:56] <jelmer> jdong: please note that it is *not* advised to use the 0.4 branch of bzr-svn atm
[20:17] <jdong> jelmer: ah, ok. Also, are there any known issues between bzr-svn and subversion 1.5.x/1.6.x?
[20:17] <jdong> jelmer: I recall trying it earlier and getting something along the lines of a mismatched # of arguments traceback
[20:17] <jelmer> jdong: I haven't tried 1.6.x, 1.5.x should work fine
[20:18] <jdong> jelmer: ok, just an FYI the ForeignBranches howto says to branch subversion trunk which is apparently "1.6.x" now
[20:18] <jelmer> jdong: Can you be more specific ? :-)
[20:18] <jdong> jelmer: *grumble* let me reproduce it ;-)
[20:20] <jdong>     return apply(_ra.svn_ra_do_update, args)
[20:20] <jdong> TypeError: add_nodes() takes exactly 2 arguments (4 given)
[20:21] <jdong> jelmer: ^^. Lemme know if that's totally wack. I did really mutilate the svn stack to get it to build in this RHEL4 env
[20:21] <jelmer> jdong: That looks like a python-subversion issue
[20:22] <jdong> jelmer: this is subversion branches/1.5.x IIRC....
[20:23] <jdong> jelmer: wait is bzr-svn 0.4.7 supposed to work against bzr 1.2.0?
[20:23] <jelmer> jdong: Something funky is happening at your side
[20:23] <jelmer> jdong: There is no symbol add_nodes in either bzr-svn or python-subversion
[20:24] <jdong> /mit/jdong/.local/lib/python2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/index.py:    def add_nodes(self, nodes):
[20:24] <jdong> it seems to be in bzrlib?
[20:24] <jelmer> any chance you can post the full backtrace somewhere?
[20:25] <jdong> O_O
[20:25] <jdong> oh
[20:25] <jdong> wow
[20:25] <jdong> lol that was confusing
[20:25] <jdong> so I post this traceback to Ubuntu pastebin...
[20:26] <jdong> and Ubuntu pastebin HAPPENED to spit back a CGI error in the form of a python traceback
[20:26] <jelmer> heh
[20:26] <jdong> and all I could think is "hey that's not the one I put in"
[20:26] <jdong> lol lemme find another pastebin
[20:26] <jelmer> (-:
[20:26] <jdong> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/57869/
[20:27] <piedoggie> the more I work with svn, the more I love bzr.  thanks folks for making bzr real.
[20:31] <jdong> WELL I guess the selftest segfaulting is a good sign that I did something idiotic compiling svn.
[20:43] <beuno> lifeless, ping
[20:49] <mdke> I'd like to merge changes from a branch into another one but only in relation to one file - can I do that?
[20:49] <mdke> "bzr merge branch filename" doesn't seem to work
[20:50] <jdong> jelmer: any hints on the backtrace?
[20:50] <jdong> mdke: the only way I know of is to merge the branch, then revert all but that one file
[20:50] <beuno> mdke, AFAIK, cherrypicking is not supported yet
[20:50] <jelmer> jdong: Whoops, sorry
[20:51] <mdke> jdong, beuno: ok, shame. Thanks
[20:51] <mdke> cp it is then :)
[20:51] <jdong> spoken almost like a git developer :)
[20:51] <beuno> mdke, old n' trusty  :p
[20:52] <jelmer> jdong: Doesn't make an awful lot of sense
[20:52] <mdke> yes, cp seems to work
[20:52] <fullermd> No, you can bzr merge /some/branch/some/file
[20:52] <jelmer> jdong: I guess the backtrace gets messed up by the python subversion bindings
[20:53] <mdke> fullermd: doesn't seem to work with a remote branch on launchpad at least
[20:53] <fullermd> (it doesn't record anything of course, just like cherrypicking revs, but it works)
[20:53] <beuno> ah I guess that would be bug #81758 then
[20:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 81758 in bzr "'bzr help merge' should describe merging a single file" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/81758
[20:53] <jdong> jelmer: well, I can tell these RHEL4 servers hate me
[20:53] <jelmer> it may actually be a core bzr bug
[20:53] <jelmer> but it's hard to tell without a proper traceback :-/
[20:54] <jdong> jelmer: confusing why a nearly identical setup on ubuntu doesn't err out
[20:54] <jelmer> jdong: Does "bzr selftest svn" pass?
[20:54] <jdong> jelmer: no, it.... segfaults....
[20:54] <jdong> which is another worrisome sign
[20:54] <jelmer> uhm, yes :-)
[20:55]  * jdong nukes his ~/.local and starts over
[20:55] <jdong> when in doubt..... wipe ito ut.
[20:55] <jdong> spoken in the true voice of American diplomacy.
[20:55] <jelmer> (-:
[20:57] <jdong> ok, let's try just installing bzr and running its selftest first...
[22:02] <benjaminpeterson> has anyone used bzr-lomb?
[22:08] <makko> hi, I'm running bzr on Mac (Leopard OS X) and I don't know why, but when I run a commit or branch, it just hangs... I've left it running overnight and it still doesn't finish. Any ideas/pointers?
[22:11] <beuno> makko, maybe take a look at ~/.bzr.log?
[22:11] <poolfoo1> Does any one know of a nice (aka TortousCVS) graphical interface to bazarr on OSX?
[22:12] <makko> beuno: I did. For example, I just wanted to get the latest bzr.dev (as in the user manual), and it just hangs. My bzr.log says: 396.636  creating branch <bzrlib.branch.BzrBranchFormat6 object at 0x1326d10> in file:///Users/normsu/root/bzr/bzr.dev/.bzr/ ...
[22:13] <beuno> makko, what version of bzr would that be?
[22:13] <makko> beuno: I got bzr from macports  (1.2.0) and I'm trying to fetch bzr.dev with "bzr branch -v http://bazaar-vcs.org/bzr/bzr.dev"
[22:14] <benjaminpeterson> poolfool: have you seen QBzr
[22:15] <beuno> makko, can you report a bug with the contents of your .bzr.log?
[22:16] <makko> beuno: OK, I just wasn't sure if this was an actual bug or something kooky with my own setup/environment.
[22:17] <beuno> makko, thanks. I'm sure someone else will help you debug it
[22:18] <makko> beuno: OK, thanks for your kind assistance I'll try your suggestion.
[22:18] <beuno> makko, np. good luck  :D
[22:34] <poolfoo1> benjaminpeterson: No ... sorry ... but I guess I was looking for something a little more tied into finder.
[22:35] <poolfoo1> I am kind of new to OSX (1 month new), and I mostly use the console ... but at work I use TortoiseCVS and it gets kind of addicting.
[22:35] <poolfoo1> benjaminpeterson: Quit a nick by the way ... hurts to type ... almost
[22:37] <benjaminpeterson> poolfool: Hmm, I don't actually know of any applications that interface with the MacOS finder. Is that possible? (Are their APIs?)
[22:38] <poolfoo1> benjaminpeterson: I would guess not ... Apple kind of sucks that way ... but I figured I would throw the question out any ways.
[22:39] <poolfoo1> bpeterson: Much easier ... are you a Mac OSX guy?
[22:40] <bpeterson> poolfool: I switch between KDE and Mac
[22:40] <bpeterson> poolfool: I agree that Apple should make this possible. Some cool things could be done...
[22:46] <jdong> maybe I'm crazy, nerdy, and so on... but am I the only one to prefer working with a textmode VCS?
[22:46] <jdong> I mean, I've used Subclipse, TortoiseSVN, bzr-gtk, etc all before, and find them more cumbersome than their command line counterparts
[22:47] <jdong> with the sole exception of  bzr visualize and similar tools
[22:47] <jdong> ancenstry is more clear in a GUI form
[22:48] <bpeterson> jdong: I love textmode
[22:49] <bpeterson> jdong: I typically use a simple editor with syntax highlighting and perform all my other operations with bash
[22:49] <poolfoo1> I like gui for the quick clues that a file may be out of date (icon overlay in Microsoft Windows with Tortoise), but commits, diff, log generation for reports are much easier text based.
[22:50] <bpeterson> bzr missing
[22:50] <poolfoo1> That said, I just seem to live via gui. That is kind of why I was looking for something that might tie into finder ... not yet another graphic program to learn.
[22:50] <jdong> poolfoo1: interesting... I find bzr diff, bzr log, bzr status easier by commandline
[22:51] <poolfoo1> jdong: sorry, maybe I didn't read/write that just write. I agree that diff, log and status are much easier from command line\text.
[22:52] <fullermd> A GUI is a way to get LOTS of command lines at once   :)
[22:53] <poolfoo1> What about web interface (bzrweb?) to revision control? I like the bonsai/ViewVC interface a lot for a while.
[22:53] <jdong> poolfoo1: seems like loggerhead is the preferred one nowadays
[22:54] <jdong> launchpad has a demo of it
[22:54] <jdong> poolfoo1: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/files
[22:54] <jdong> I still like bzr-serve or whatever that other older one is called
[22:54] <jdong> because you can start it on some arbitrary port on a single command
[22:54] <poolfoo1> loggerhead (the last time I played with it) was a whole suite of power tools just ready to rip an finger/arm/leg off. I like the small light weight ability of bzweb for small projects/groups or single use as a simple gui.
[22:55] <poolfoo1> loggerhead would be much better for something like launchpad/sorceforge/...
[22:55] <jdong> poolfoo1: yeah the older one was easier for personal use
[22:56] <bpeterson> i like to know what my computer is doing, so bash gives the most control and detail
[22:59] <jdong> I find commandline easiest for stuff I know how to do, and GUI's easier for, frankly, BS-ing my way along when I really don't know what I'm doing.
[22:59] <jdong> again, personal opinion.
[22:59] <bpeterson> it is more intuitive
[22:59] <poolfoo1> What is the craziest/coolest use of bazaar to date? I heard someone ( lifeless ) suggest using bzrlib for a wiki ... sounded pretty cool to me.
[22:59] <jdong> if you *know* what you want to do, it's much easier to express it in a CLI
[22:59] <jdong> poolfoo1: benjamin mako hill is doing a bzr wiki for his doctoral thesis
[23:00] <jdong> poolfoo1: I wrote a ruby+bzr TODO list program a few weeks ago
[23:00] <jdong> so I can operate disconnectedly
[23:00] <poolfoo1> jdong: do you have the link? ... but what about a revision controlled filesystem ... something more complex then the Linux COW patch.
[23:00] <jdong> poolfoo1: I also use bzr heavily while doing Ubuntu package development or packaging. It helps me keep track of my current changes a lot better
[23:00] <bpeterson> i suppose you can bumble around in GUI with out causing horrible damage
[23:00] <jdong> poolfoo1: I don't have a link handy, no
[23:01] <jdong> bpeterson: well a GUI's beter at answering "Hmm, what can I do?"
[23:01] <jdong> i.e. poking around a new program
[23:01] <jdong> I found git extremely bewildering on day one
[23:01] <jdong> IMO it's approaching arch fame :)
[23:01] <jdong> but once I kinda knew what I was doing, it was pretty easy to use
[23:01] <poolfoo1> jdong: when you use it for ubuntu you are using it as a RCS? ... how about using it somewhere that is revision control (wiki/apple time machine/... ) but you just don't realise or think of it that way.
[23:01] <bpeterson> jdong: when you don't want to look through the docs :)
[23:06] <bpeterson> jdong: is git really as fast as Linus says
[23:11] <ubotu> New bug: #197125 in bzr "bzr hangs on Mac OS X Leopard (10.5.2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/197125
[23:14] <mkanat> Is there any way to make bzr ignore permission changes on files, for a checkin?
[23:15] <jdong> bpeterson: git is fast indeed, impressively so
[23:16] <jdong> bpeterson: something like "git log > /dev/null" for 500,000 revisions happens nearly instantly
[23:16] <jdong> i.e. complete in 0.5 seconds
[23:16] <jdong> bpeterson: but personally I don't think most sized projects benefit from that speed
[23:17] <jdong> bpeterson: git has been much slower for me because in the time it takes me to answer "What the hell is git pull . refs:master/trunk?", bzr could've done the operation 10 times :)
[23:18] <poolfoo1> jdong: Have you tried git on Microsoft Windows recently? Is there a not cygwin version?
[23:19] <poolfoo1> My big selling point for bazaar is Win32 at work, Linux & MacOSX at home ... no problems to date ... <knock on wood>
[23:19] <jdong> poolfoo1: AFAIK all the git-on-windows implementations are either quirky or very slow
[23:19] <jdong> poolfoo1: bzr is definitely much much more portable
[23:20] <poolfoo1> Which would be my big selling point ....
[23:21] <jdong> poolfoo1: for me, that and (2) simplicity (3) outstanding support for dumb protocols
[23:22] <jdong> those two are things that most VCSes lack IMO
[23:23] <poolfoo1> jdong: you mean the fact that bzr can checkout over http/scp/ssh ?
[23:24] <jdong> poolfoo1: right. The fact that bzr works just fine over standard protocols like SFTP, HTTP, FTP and so on without the need for anything special on the remote end
[23:24] <jdong> Git can read over HTTP, but that's it
[23:24] <jdong> if you want to push, you can't do that over FTP. You can only do it over SSH if git were installed on the remote machine
[23:24] <poolfoo1> jdong: so the purpose of a dedicated bzr protocol and server? speed ... but I am just looking to get info.
[23:25] <jdong> poolfoo1: right, the smart server tends to be faster
[23:25] <jdong> poolfoo1: rather, has more potential to be faster
[23:25] <jdong> poolfoo1: though the recent "packs" storage format evened the playing field a lot
[23:25] <poolfoo1> jdong: potential ... yea .... about that ...
[23:25] <jdong> poolfoo1: branching a large packs-format repo over http maxes out my connection at 8MB/s
[23:25] <jdong> for the most part
[23:26] <jdong> which is as good performance as one can hope for, right? :)
[23:29] <poolfoo1> Wow ... 8MB/s ... that's a lot better then any connection I have had in a long while; at work Dual T1 with poor load balance right now and CrapCast (ComCast) at home.
[23:30] <jdong> poolfoo1: well I'm glad my $40,000 tuition allows MIT to buy me some pretty decent internet :)
[23:30] <mkanat> I've bursted almost that high on Comcast.
[23:30] <mkanat> jdong: Hahahaa, ahh, the days of school internet...
[23:30] <jdong> indeed :)
[23:30] <jdong> I'll miss my 18.0.0.0/8 subnet too
[23:30] <poolfoo1> Aaaahh yes ... the last time I had decent net speed I was at Colorado State University (CSU) .... the good old days.
[23:31] <jdong> where everything from the printer next to me to my iPod Touch has a public IP
[23:32] <mkanat> jdong: In a sense that's a little frightening, though. :-)
[23:32] <damageboy> can anyone explain how to write a pre-commit hook script with Bzr 1.2?
[23:32] <jdong> mkanat: :) access control should be strong enough to withstand that anyway :)
[23:33] <poolfoo1> damageboy: http://doc.bazaar-vcs.org/bzr.dev/en/user-reference/bzr_man.html#hooks
[23:35] <poolfoo1> Is there some place for good bzr scripts?
[23:36] <mkanat> jdong: I hope so! :-)
[23:36] <damageboy> Can I run a bash script that changes the files I'm about to commit (potentially even creates more changes...)?
[23:36] <damageboy> From the pre_commit hook that is...?
[23:44] <bpeterson> damageboy: I dont't believe so. Bazaar has already calculated the changes to commit.
[23:57] <awilkins> damageboy: I'm not sure, but I'd imaging that would work, unlike on SVN
[23:58] <awilkins> damageboy: I think I might want to try that myself, I have some reasons to do it in my present project :-)
[23:58] <awilkins> Anyway, time for bed.