jdongthe new theme looks pretty cool00:01
* jdong backports it00:01
StevenKBecause running Hardy is pointless if you can just backport the lot?00:02
jdongStevenK: not nearly enough is backported to draw that comparison :)00:02
StevenKjdong: Heh.00:04
_MMA_jdong: I wouldnt backport it yet as it still needs some work.00:28
jdong_MMA_: only personally for now00:29
jdongI just wanted it on my gutsy machine00:29
jdongcall it greed00:29
* StevenK is content to wait.00:29
zyx386and what is about my bug report?00:36
zyx386well be fix it?00:36
=== jelmer_ is now known as jelmer
blueyedShould a package remove obsolete config files when it get's upgraded? They seem to stay in /etc and get listed as "obsolete" in "dpkg -s".01:17
blueyedoops.. I've meant to ask in #ubuntu-motu..01:18
=== greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
* Hobbsee waves03:30
ionstormcan some admin ban the spammers at http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/search?ordering=new03:30
ionstormthey are screwing up the site03:30
RAOFHeya Hobbsee!03:31
Hobbseehey RAOF!03:31
ScottK2Heya Hobbsee03:31
* Hobbsee deals with gio.03:31
* TheMuso waves to RAOF and Hobbsee.03:31
RAOFWith a hammer?03:31
RAOFAnd a howdie to you too, TheMuso.03:32
ScottK2Hmmm.  Spammers messing up a site where users come up with work they think we should do...  Bug or feature?03:32
RAOFI was thinking a bit about that.03:33
TheMusoIt should have been tied to Launchpad User IDs.03:33
ScottK2Oddly enough Ubuntu is the distro where I have to agree to play nice and Debian is the distro where I have to agree to care about the users.03:33
Hobbseehi TheMuso03:37
FujitsuTheMuso: I was advised that it will be soon.03:37
HobbseeRAOF: no, not really.  trouble is, i have conflicting dates on when my rego was *actually* cancelled.03:37
Hobbseeso they want a fax, etc, etc, etc.  nyah nyah nyah.03:38
RAOFHobbsee: Aaaah.  gio, not gio :)03:39
HobbseeRAOF: which were you thinking of?03:39
RAOFGIO, the new gnome IO subsystem.03:39
* Fujitsu initially thought of the GVFS-related GIO.03:39
FujitsuThat one.03:39
RAOFSince we are, after all, in #ubuntu-devel :)03:39
RAOFNot #cars-are-expensive03:40
HobbseeRAOF: oh.03:40
Hobbseeno, this is #Hobbsee-hates-making-phone-calls-that-are-overdue03:40
Hobbseewas about to say - i shouldnt' be timing out from there04:07
Hobbseehurrah.  done my 5 today.04:08
* mpt applauds04:08
Hobbseeshould have got the spangly new code to do with it, though04:08
HobbseeScottK: nuked one of yours (can't reproduce)04:13
ScottKHmmm.  Looks for bugmail.04:16
HobbseeScottK: get-build-deps on !bash04:17
ScottKI think he fixed that one.04:17
ScottKIt's OK.  I filed 10 bugs on ubuntu-dev-tools in one day.  Even if one falls out, I'm still well over 5.04:18
StevenKI thought it was fix 5, not file 504:18
Hobbseeif you file 5, you have to fix 10.04:19
ScottK2If people would stop uploading without thinking, I'd be fixing, not filing.04:19
Hobbseebah.  bzr curled up it's toes and died.04:19
Hobbseebzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(lp--1217675668:///~5-a-day/5-a-day-data/main/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport04:19
Hobbseebzr failed with error code 76804:19
StevenKDelete the checkout and re-checkout, I think04:19
RAOFHobbsee: That looks like you're trying to push to an http branch?04:19
ScottK2My favorite ubuntu-dev-tools bug was that the AUTHORS file was executable.04:20
HobbseeRAOF: no idea. i'm just using whta's in haryd04:20
StevenKScottK2: What did it do when you executed it? :-P04:20
ScottK2It wouldn't have done anything much, but I didn't execute it.04:20
ScottK2It's just symptomatic of a lack of care.04:20
ScottK2How does that happen?04:20
RAOFI often chmod +x random files.  Surely you do too? :?04:21
ScottK2I'm on a different tack now anyway.  I'm going to see how well I survive without ever logging into LP.04:22
RAOFI should learn the mail-based LP interface, yeah.04:22
ScottK2Well I'm seriously looking at Lenny right now.  I've pretty well had it up to my eyeballs with LP for a while.04:23
Hobbseeoh, meh.  it doesn't create ~/.5-a-day-data, so dies04:24
Hobbseeand then still dies04:24
HobbseeScottK2: so be producive, and find ways of diong ubuntu without LP04:25
ScottK2Hobbsee: I'm planning on it.  I've been looking into actually teaching bughelper to report Ubuntu bugs instead of just whining to a mailing list.04:26
LaserJockthat'd be handy04:26
ScottK2I think all the relevant bits of code exist, it's just a matter of pulling them together.04:27
ScottK2The other thing is that Lenny with KDE 3.5.9 may be a better desktop for my than the Ibex.04:30
ScottK2I'm still waiting for a reassuring answer to my comment on kubuntu-devel ML about us being over a year away from a stable/reliable kde4pim.04:31
* ScottK2 goes back to filing klamav bugs with upstream.04:31
RAOFWow, over a year?  How does that happen?04:33
ScottK2It's like this...04:33
ScottK2KDE4.0 - No kdepim for kde4.04:33
ScottK2KDE4.1 - Initial kdepim port to qt404:33
Hobbseekubuntu will carry kde 3.5.904:33
ScottK2KDE4.2 - Initial integration with the new Akdondi data engine back end04:34
ScottK2KDE4.3 - I figure this is the first shot at a stable/reliable one.04:34
ScottK2Releases happen every 6 months.04:34
ScottK2Hobbsee: True, but how much attention is it going to get?04:35
ScottK2Unless the Debian KDE people pull a miracle out of their hats Lenny will release with 3.5.9 and KDE4 will stay in experimental.04:35
LaserJockbut don't we get whatever work Debian does?04:36
ScottK2Probably.  Assuming someone does the merges.04:37
ScottK2I'm not saying which way I'm going.  I've not decided.  It's just that I'm looking into it.04:37
slangasekspeaking of KDE, any kubuntu folks want to rebuild kdebase-workspace for libxklavier12?04:39
HobbseeScottK2: how much is gnome going to get?04:39
ScottK2What is from my perspective declining usability in our main tool set and developers that don't care is my main concern.04:39
Hobbseeslangasek: i;ll do it04:39
ScottK2Hobbsee: I've no idea.04:39
slangasekHobbsee: cheers; fyi, there's a dep and a build-dep that each need changed04:40
Hobbseecome on, pull faster tahn 700 kbps.04:41
Hobbseeer, kBps04:41
ScottK2The straw that broke the camel's back today was finding out after a long disucssion about a bug that it was known before the last LP release and neither documented nor fixed.04:41
Hobbseethat happesn for a lot of bugs.04:42
Hobbseejust watch a few that get marked for critical cherry picking, after sitting there for 3 months.  i find that sadly amusing.04:42
ScottK2You would think if being able to include attachments in new email bug reports was being announced as a major feature it would actually work (or at least have it's limitations documented)04:42
Hobbseenot really.  i'm afraid i've seen a little too much of launchpad to expect such things.04:43
Hobbseeespecially after seeing ppa release without a delete function, for months.04:43
ScottK2Everyone over there claims it's getting better, but I don't see it.04:43
Hobbseeit is.  it's getting more code, more features, and more bugs.04:44
ScottK2I'm also seeing more and more replies along the lines of "we know it's not ideal, but that's what sabdfl said he wanted.  nothing to do about it."04:44
* Hobbsee suspects a lot of companies operate around "it's because the boss said so"04:45
pwnguinis a ubuntu qa password different than lp or the wiki?04:45
Hobbseethat being said, with all their time, and all their features, and all their new people, i would have hoped for better QA - which, at least for some parts, hasn't happened.04:45
ScottK2Hobbsee: But very few FOSS projects do.04:45
HobbseeScottK2: and launchpad is not FOSS.04:45
ScottK2So I'm not going to play free QA for them any more.04:46
Hobbseei'm actually not sure how much their "free QA", as it were, is helping them, seeing as they appear to get important bugs filed, then either ignore, or not understand the importance to people in the real world (or class them as not important)04:47
Hobbseeand yet do very little with them04:47
pwnguinHobbsee: actually, im not certain a delete feature is a good idea. technically the gpl requires you to provide the source code to people for some number of months after distribution, upon request04:48
ScottK2Yes.  Even more encouragement to quit.04:48
Hobbseepwnguin: ah yes - now i'm waiting for that bug to hit critical status, but it doesn't mention that it's violating the gpl, and kiko has already said "oh please...", so i'm guessing it will take a few more months, and a few more people going "uh...."04:49
Hobbseepwnguin: feel free to comment about the violation on the bug.04:49
LaserJockHobbsee: I'm not sure that's a very fair assessment04:49
Hobbseepwnguin: but it's nice to actually have control over the binaries that are ther.e04:49
LaserJockthere's certainly a lot of improvements that need to be made04:49
LaserJockbut there are a lot of bugs getting fixed04:49
LaserJockand we certainly don't do much better with our bugs04:50
HobbseeLaserJock: how do you disagree?  i'll freely admit, iv'e seen more improvements in some areas than others, and i suspect i'm seeing some of the worse ends of LP, as most outside people don't see them04:50
Hobbseeyeah well.  i have various things to say about that too.04:50
ionstormhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/196859 <-- please notify admin asap, site is under spam attack04:50
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196859 in ubuntu "Brainstorm is susceptible to spam" [Undecided,Invalid]04:50
LaserJockLP has a lot of functionality and is quite usable, not perfect, but it gets the job done04:50
Hobbseeionstorm: they're not awake.04:51
ScottK2LaserJock: But it's getting worse not better.04:51
LaserJockScottK2: I wouldn't say that04:51
Hobbseeionstorm: oh, that admin04:51
LaserJockthere are some regressions here and there for sure04:52
ionstormHobbsee, we need to wake them04:52
LaserJockno doubt04:52
ionstormview http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/search?ordering=new04:52
ScottK2Personally I think the web site U/I peaked just before the beta and it's been getting more complex and less usable since.04:52
Hobbseeionstorm: good luck in finding people who work for canonical at this time of day04:52
LaserJockbut they've also made progress04:52
ionstormthey are massively spam attacking them04:52
HobbseeStevenK: can you call someone?04:52
ionstormwell canonical needs to be on irc04:52
ScottK2LaserJock: Sure.  It's some good and some bad.  IMO the balance is to the bad.04:52
Hobbseestgraber: ping?04:53
Hobbseeionstorm: someone needs to not sleep, yeah04:53
Hobbseehrm.  i wonder if i can delete thru here04:53
Hobbseeno, i can only edit04:54
Hobbseehow useful04:54
Hobbseeyes!  it's even worse than LP, in that you can't clear a dupe!04:56
Hobbseeionstorm: you'll need someone on https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-qa-website-devel04:57
* mpt works for Canonical04:57
Fujitsumpt: But you live on a sane side of the world at the moment.04:58
Hobbseempt: oh, i forgot to specify "who could do something about it"04:58
FujitsuSo you're not someone that we're looking for, as they're logically going to be in the wrong timezone when you need them.04:58
mptMy side of the world is *always* sane :-P04:58
Hobbseeunless you'r eoffering calling04:58
mptCall someone about what?04:59
HobbseeFujitsu: you mean everyone doesn't operate on UK time?04:59
Hobbseempt: recent backscroll is your friend :)04:59
FujitsuHobbsee: What? Impossible!04:59
Hobbseeand it relaly helps if i actually increment the changelog04:59
mptoh, hee hee04:59
* ScottK2 finds it help if I upload to Hardy instead of Gutsy (last night anyway).05:00
FujitsuOh that bastard.05:00
Hobbseeyeah, that too.  i got that one right htough05:00
FujitsuErm, sorry.05:00
FujitsuBut, the spammer rejecting the bug.05:00
ScottK2Bug was invalid against Ubuntu anyway.05:00
mptI can't access the bug report, I get an offline message05:01
FujitsuHm, edge looks dead.05:01
FujitsuSo do I.05:01
FujitsuTry !ege.05:01
FujitsuIt worked for me a couple of minutes ago :(05:01
Fujitsu!edge must work, as it redirects me...05:01
mptThis is an example of why I don't think edge should be a separate hostname05:02
FujitsuDoesn't the code update run around now?05:02
FujitsuIt's back now.05:02
FujitsuThat must have been it.05:02
ScottK2BTW, I do find mpt is an exception to my broad generalizations I was making a few minutes ago.05:02
mptWell, I confirmed the bug report, but there's not much more I can do at this time of day05:03
mptWe have yet to learn the lesson of planning for spam before releasing something publicly05:05
mptHopefully this will be an object lesson05:05
LaserJockit's too bad it didn't even make it like more than 1 day05:05
FujitsuHaving some kind of coverage of multiple timezones would be good too.05:05
FujitsuHaving admins sitting on one side of the world is ++ungood.05:05
ScottK2Fujitsu: It's not that.  It's the combination of sitting on one side of the world AND letting them sleep that's the problem.05:06
FujitsuLaserJock: Slashdot and Digg do that to websites.05:06
FujitsuScottK2: Good point. Canonical needs to sponsor caffeine IVs.05:06
Hobbseempt: i live in hope.05:06
mptHobbsee, I live in a settlement that is actually called Hope05:06
Hobbseempt: it does actually have admins in most timezones, so it is getting better.05:07
Hobbseempt: nevertheless, with a GUI for delete, and a gui for 'mark as spam', that's not overly helpful05:07
* Fujitsu stabs repeatedly.05:07
FujitsuHe rejected it.05:08
* Fujitsu kills.05:08
Hobbseenow now Fujitsu.  you can't kill people, otherwise people inside and otuside of canonical will whinge about you being heavy handed.05:08
ScottK2Apparently this is after "months  of planning and development" what was come up with (reading planet).05:08
mptScottK, Launchpad has its problems, but if you say that the pre-1.0 UI was better than the post-1.0 UI, people may have difficulty taking your other issues seriously05:08
FujitsuEven Launchpad has beta test phases, whereas this came from nowhere!05:09
ScottK2mpt: That's how I find it, but I'm old and I like text.05:09
ScottK2The old U/I also worked via my smartphone.  New one doesn't.05:09
* Hobbsee shudders05:09
ScottK2I also clicked on the wrong thing a lot less before.05:09
HobbseeScottK2: you ran launchpad over your *smartphone*????05:09
ScottK2I agree the newer one is prettier.05:10
ScottK2Hobbsee: I have an all you can use data plan.05:10
Hobbseeyou really are a masochist.  how long did the pageloads take?05:10
ScottK2Long time.05:10
Hobbseei'll bet05:10
FujitsuThere aren't any LP admins on this side of the world either, are there?05:10
ScottK2They take a lot longer now and I can't change stuff, so I quit doing it.05:10
FujitsuYay for status wars.05:10
HobbseeFujitsu: nope05:11
ScottK2Fujitsu: You could try to get his account cancelled, but you'll have to warn him, take him in front of some council somewhere, warn him again, and then maybe.05:11
FujitsuScottK2: And that requires an admin.05:11
FujitsuHe's just done it for the third time.05:12
ScottK2Fujitsu: By the time you get the other stuff done, the admin will be awake.05:12
HobbseeScottK2: no you don't.05:12
HobbseeScottK2: for actual spam, they'll nuke it.  sometimes they'll try an email first.05:12
* ScottK2 confesses to engaging in hyperbole and sarcasm.05:13
ScottK2The part about thinkin LP is getting less and less usable was dead serious though.05:14
FujitsuWe need a system to vote users out, damnit!05:15
LaserJock"Survivor: Ubuntu Edition"05:16
mptScottK, does your phone browser try to do Launchpad's multi-column CSS layout?05:20
ScottK2mpt: Yes.05:20
ScottK2I think05:20
ScottK2Let me try it.05:20
mptnon-Opera/iPhone browsers are often execrably bad at CSS05:21
ScottK2It's a Palm Treo 600, so it's not precisely obscure.05:21
ScottK2Wouldn't suprise me.05:21
mptbut a phone that ignores CSS altogether should be much happier with post-1.0 Launchpad than with the <table>-ridden pre-1.0 Launchpad.05:21
ScottK2Their included mail client qualifies as excerable.05:21
ScottK2The thing that got me was the switch to the current approach for the status/importance/etc section.  The old one worked.05:22
Hobbseehurrah.  finally made all the phonecalls for the day.05:23
FujitsuScottK2: This is what the mail interface is for.05:23
ScottK2Fujitsu: This is true.  There is an alternative, but it's still a regression from my perspective.05:24
mptScottK, if you can send me a screenshot, that might help a lot05:25
ScottK2mpt: I'll see if I can figure out how to get a decent one.05:25
ScottK2Actually it's gotten a lot worse than the last time I tried it.  On a package page I just get the 'table' of releases.  I don't even get the tabs to go to the bugs page.05:27
FujitsuScottK2: Oh, people use the tabs?05:28
ScottK2Fujitsu: I don't usually.  I usually type in the urls on my computers, but on the phone it's a bit harder.05:28
FujitsuAh, true.05:28
* lamont uses the tabs05:29
lamontmuch easier that remembering the magic hidden URLs for stuff05:29
ScottK2Fujitsu: Alternative answer is: No.  That's why clicking on the package name in the status section of a bug now takes to you the package page instead of giving you the chance to change the affected package.05:29
lamontso I don't even bother trying to remember even the simple ones05:29
ScottK2And it can't be changed.05:29
* Hobbsee has aliases05:29
* ScottK2 doesn't remember them either. The browser knows where I've been before.05:30
lamontHobbsee: I have an alias for getting to a source package (which still has /distros in it, iirc), and maybe an lpbug alias05:30
Hobbseelamont: pity the url's aren't always shown on the gui05:30
LaserJockI just type the urls by hand mostly05:31
* ScottK2 needs to get to bed. Good night all.05:31
* Fujitsu does the same as LaserJock.05:31
FujitsuNight ScottK2.05:31
* StevenK has an alias for source package, person and bug05:32
Hobbseehrm.  how do i get firefox-2 to work?06:34
Hobbseeloading that, i appear to get firefox3, as usual06:38
LaserJockis there a separate .desktop?06:39
Hobbseei was using the terminal06:39
Hobbseeie, sarah@saturn:~% /usr/bin/firefox-2                                       5:39PM06:39
pittiGood morning06:48
StevenKMorning pitti06:49
pittijdstrand: nut bzr> thanks06:50
Hobbseemorning pitti06:54
warp10Good morning06:54
pittihey Hobbsee!06:54
pittimoin StevenK06:54
pittibon giorno warp1006:55
warp10morgen pitti!06:55
LaserJockhiya pitti06:55
superm1slangasek, according to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/mythbuntu/hardy/daily-20080229.log the ISO generated, but it looks like some error with the md5sum template that may be out of my control?07:22
superm1oh nvm, just took a sec to show up on cdimages.ubuntu.com07:25
slangasekok :)07:26
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
thegodfathersuperm1: ping?08:10
thegodfather(nothing urgent)08:10
mdkepitti: you remember we do that thing in ubuntu-docs where translations that are less than 40% don't get included? I'm just working on updating translations in the gutsy package; can I drop that a bit now that iso space is no longer a consideration?08:12
kagouhello seb12808:18
seb128hi kagou08:18
seb128hey dholbach08:19
dholbachgood morning08:19
dholbachhi seb12808:19
Hobbseemorning seb12808:19
kagouhey dholbach08:20
Hobbseedholbach: your shiny is borken :(08:20
seb128hey Hobbsee08:20
dholbachhi kagou, hi Hobbsee08:20
Hobbseedholbach: http://pastebin.ca/92300108:20
mdkemorning dholbach08:20
dholbachhi mdke08:20
dholbachHobbsee: seems we need to transition it from "all commit to one branch" to "everybody commits to their own branch"08:21
mdkedholbach: i'm just doing some updates for the gutsy package of ubuntu-docs, with updated translations. Is it appropriate for me to remove the packaging guide from that, or do we just do that in hardy and going forward?08:21
pittimdke: it'll make it still quite ugly to read, and CDs are still full, as always08:21
dholbachthat'll make statistics a bit hairy, but it'll fix the issues08:21
Hobbseedholbach: what's the problem with all committing to one branch?08:21
dholbachmdke: I'd just do it in hardy and keep the changes to gutsy as small as possible08:21
mdkepitti: are CDs still being regenerated for gutsy?08:21
Hobbseealso, it doesnt' seem to create the ~/.5-a-day-data08:21
mdkedholbach: fine, thanks08:21
dholbachHobbsee: it should run       bzr checkout <branch>08:22
dholbachat least it did for a lot of other people :)08:22
Hobbseedholbach: this is a stock install of it.  no changes.08:22
dholbachcan you move .5-a-day-data away and try to run       add-5-a-day 194631 190050 150577 140612 178903 196786       again?08:23
dholbachand paste the output?08:23
Hobbseedholbach: http://rafb.net/p/6xkuJL96.html08:26
dholbachreadonly transport?08:27
dholbachdo you have the right SSH key in LP?08:27
* Hobbsee only has one ssh key.08:27
RAOFHave you run "bzr launchpad-login hobbsee"?08:28
HobbseeRAOF: nope08:28
* RAOF presumes that's your lp id.08:28
Hobbseedholbach: i get promped for a ssh p/w, and put that in...08:28
HobbseeRAOF: same problem after doing so08:29
RAOFThere goes my guess :)08:29
dholbachHobbsee: where's the 'hobbsee' file?08:31
dholbachis it in ~/.5-a-day-data/?08:31
seb128pitti: steve gave his ack to the dbus update ;-)08:31
pittiseb128: oh? didn't see it by mail08:31
Hobbseesarah@saturn:~/.5-a-day-data% ls -la hobbsee                             7:32PM08:32
Hobbsee-rw-r--r-- 1 sarah sarah 204 2008-02-29 19:28 hobbsee08:32
Hobbseedholbach: so, yes08:32
seb128pitti: he added a comment on the bug some hours ago08:32
dholbachHobbsee: but the branch seems to be in ~/.5-a-day-data/main ?08:32
pittiseb128: ah, indeed! /me uploads08:32
seb128pitti: danke08:33
dholbachah no, nevermind08:34
dholbachHobbsee: what happens if you run        cd ~/.5-a-day-data; bzr update; bzr commit -m "updated log for 'hobbsee'"     ?08:34
dholbachif that makes it work,we should look into splitting up the branch quickly :)08:35
Hobbseedholbach: same problem on that commit08:35
Hobbseedholbach: you mean bzr doesn't handle big things?08:35
dholbachHobbsee: no, if lots of people hammer the same branch, you can always get out of sync in a few seconds :)08:36
Hobbseedholbach: right, but this has happened multiple times today?  :)08:36
glatzormorning pitti, seb128, dholbach and Hobbsee08:37
dholbachhi glatzor08:37
seb128hi glatzor08:37
Hobbseemorning glatzor!08:38
pittihi glatzor08:41
dholbachHobbsee: can you pastebin     bzr info -v          somewhere?08:47
Hobbseedholbach: http://rafb.net/p/LKucRO74.html08:48
dholbachHobbsee: <spiv> dholbach: as a workaround, hobbsee should be able to "bzr switch sftp://hobbsee@bazaar.launchpad.net/%7E5-a-day/5-a-day-data/main/"08:53
dholbachHobbsee: https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad-bazaar/+bug/19691308:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196913 in launchpad-bazaar "Cannot lock LockDir(lp--1218658708:///~5-a-day/5-a-day-data/main/.bzr/branchlock): Transport operation not possible: readonly transport" [Undecided,New]08:54
dholbachhey mvo08:55
mvohey dholbach!08:55
seb128hello mvo!08:55
seb128mvo: back to germany?08:55
pittihey mvo, welcome back08:56
mvopitti: yeah, thanks :)08:56
mvoseb128: yes, arrived last night (later, flight was slightly delayed)08:56
* seb128 hugs mvo08:56
pittidholbach: btw, suggestion: could update-signature do a 'bzr update ~/.5-a-day-data/'?08:56
pittidholbach: so that I can call it on all my machines08:57
* mvo hugs seb128 dholbach pitti08:57
seb128dholbach: could you namespace update-signate btw? 5aday-update-signature or something?08:57
dholbachpitti: bug 19691408:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196914 in five-a-day "<pitti> dholbach: btw, suggestion: could update-signature do a 'bzr update ~/.5-a-day-data/'?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19691408:58
pittidholbach: wow, do you have an irc2lpbug script? :)08:59
dholbachseb128: bug 19691508:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196915 in five-a-day "<seb128> dholbach: could you namespace update-signate btw? 5aday-update-signature or something?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19691508:59
* seb128 hugs dholbach08:59
dholbachpitti: no, I'm just quick today09:00
dholbachno time until end of next week to hack on 5-a-day stuff though09:00
seb128dholbach: that's like inbox handling, do it now and switch to something else? ;-)09:00
dholbachso if somebody else wants to get started on those bugs.... :)09:00
pittiseb128: ah, I know why I didn't get bug mail for the dbus FF request, ubuntu-release wasn't sub'ed09:00
seb128pitti: I did!09:01
pittiseb128: ah, so slangasek unsub'ed ubuntu-release after ack'ing apparently09:01
* dholbach -> dogwalk09:01
seb128that's annoying you don't get a bug in such cases09:01
seb128a mail rather09:01
seb128that's the same when somebody reassign a bug to an another package09:01
seb128you have mails about the bug09:02
seb128but nothing suggesting it has been moved on somebody's else plate09:02
* pitti hugs seb12809:17
pittiseb128: I just put my wife's new audio CD into the CD-ROM drive09:21
pittiseb128: RB popped up, offered me a button "copy into music collection"09:21
pittiand did all the rest09:21
slangasekpitti: yes, it's the only way I see to manage our queue of FFes09:22
seb128pitti: nice ;-)09:22
slangasek(unsubbing u-release, that is)09:22
pittithis is *sooo* mindbogglingly well integrated!!09:22
pittislangasek: right, I understand09:22
pittiseb128: I noticed that g-v-m also started sound-juicer; I think it should stop doing that then?09:23
pitti(and do we still need s-j at all?09:23
pittiKeybuk: ^ WDYT?09:23
seb128pitti: I though we dropped this tab, from gvm?09:23
pittiseb128: not for playing audio CDs, that's still s-j09:24
seb128pitti: oh, I though you used the fedora patch I pointed to you some time ago which masks the tab09:24
pittioh, did you? I just disabled the gconf keys09:24
pittiah, I remember09:25
pittiwe need to do that for upgrades, too09:25
seb128the fedora patch takes care of upgrades09:25
pittiseb128: shouldn't that happen upstream, too, with gvfs'/nautilus' recent progress?09:25
seb128pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50982309:25
ubotuGnome bug 509823 in general "remove autorun/automount options" [Normal,Unconfirmed]09:25
pittiseb128: IIRC it just completely disables the usage of them, right09:25
Keybukpitti: sounds like it doesn't need my opinion ;)09:25
seb128pitti: right, which is what we want09:26
seb128Keybuk: having s-j still does09:26
Keybukseb128: what do you think?09:26
seb128I think we should keep it, it has its users09:26
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
seb128the UI is clean and it's small09:26
Keybukrhythmbox can't play auto cds, right?09:26
seb128it does in hardy now09:26
Keybukoh, interesting09:27
seb128what do you call "auto cds"?09:27
pittiKeybuk: WFM09:27
seb128when started with a drive parameter it switches to the audio CD and start playing09:27
pittiseb128: ok, I agree we could keep it in main, it doesn't hurt; but for new installs, too?09:29
pittiKeybuk: oh, "WFM" under the assumption that s/auto/audio/ :)09:29
seb128pitti: it's part of the upstream desktop, not sure09:29
Keybukerr, I mean audio cds09:30
Keybukseb128: which do you think we should use by default for audio cds?09:31
seb128I'm not decided09:32
slomoPici: yay, dbus 1.1.20 :)09:32
seb128sound-juicer has clean interface and is easy to use09:33
seb128rhythmbox is nice but it might be too much to just play a CD09:33
seb128what do other people think?09:33
seb128we can still switch to rhythmbox by default now09:33
seb128and see feedback we get until beta09:33
* pitti ♥ RB, but I'm not claiming to be a representative user09:33
seb128and then decide on whether we use it or sound-juicer09:34
Keybukthat's a good idea09:34
pittisince it integrates better with your existing music collection09:35
pittiI think *if* you are using RB, then you want it for CD ripping, too09:35
pittibut if you *don't* use/like RB, then it's too heavy09:35
pitti(like users prefering banshee, or so)09:35
slomobut then you'd want to use banshee instead of sj most probably (i still prefer sj for ripping though ;) )09:37
seb128hey carlos09:38
carlosseb128: hi09:38
pittiseb128: so, I'll apply that g-v-m patch soon09:38
slomopitti: which takes us back to http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51061409:38
ubotuGnome bug 510614 in general "Allow more user friendly selection of applications to use" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]09:38
seb128pitti: thanks09:38
pittiseb128: so the application for new devcies is now selected in nautilus?09:38
seb128pitti: yes09:38
seb128pitti: the media tab in the preferences dialog09:39
pittislomo: IMHO that's solved much better now09:40
slomopitti: how?09:41
slomopitti: the extension to the .desktop files?09:41
pittislomo: look at nautilus -> preferences -> media09:41
pittislomo: there's a dropdown with all available apps now09:41
slomopitti: how is this list generated?09:42
pittislomo: not entirely sure, TBH; seb might know?09:42
=== geser_ is now known as geser
cjwatsonRB by default> sound-juicer doesn't do last.fm, does it? my wife uses RB for that10:07
seb128cjwatson: the question was about CD playing (when you insert an audio CD in the drive)10:11
seb128but it might make sense to start the music player so people can switch to listen something else easily10:12
cjwatsonseb128: I was talking about CD playing10:21
cjwatsonseb128: last.fm users like to notify last.fm when they play a CD so that it gets more information about their music preferences10:21
seb128ah, right10:21
cjwatsonthat's not on by default in RB, but it's a fairly easy to find checkbox10:23
seb128yes, the plugin is not activated by default and you need to configure an account but that's easy enough10:26
KeybukI dislike the fact that configuration for plugins is hidden inside the plugins10:39
tjaaltondoes RB do musicbrainz?10:40
tjaaltonwhen ripping10:40
tjaaltonapparently yes10:41
slomopitti: is dropping the xinit.d dbus-launch thing still required? was for gnome-keyring, right?10:44
asacArneGoetje: did you get in touch with thep yet (thai fonts)?10:44
pittislomo: right; maybe the newer version fixes it10:44
Keybuktjaalton: what's musicbrainz?10:49
pittimvo: hm, there's another update-manager upload in -proposed10:50
pittimvo: shouldn't we get the current one into -updates first? otherwise verification get even more hairy and dragged10:51
pittimvo: (bug 172609)10:51
tjaaltonKeybuk: cddb/freedb on steroids10:52
tjaaltonie. much better10:52
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
loolpitti: Did you get my remarks on the langpack stuff?11:00
loolpitti: BTW, new dbus uploaded; only change is a CVE id11:00
pittilool: ah, yay; I added the CVE to the Ubuntu changelog11:00
pittilool: langpacks> sorry, seems I missed them11:01
loolpitti: Concerning the langpack: we have to do the scripting and all to have hildon langpackable in all cases, but the planned savings (something like 10 MB per language so max 30 MB) are not highly interesting11:01
loolSo the part with new templates and copying translations into multiple langpacks are not too important for us11:02
pittilool: 10 MB per language? that sounds really much11:02
loolAnd hence seeds support11:02
mvopitti: yes, its not easy as it needs a hppa or ia64 box to test the 0.81.211:02
loolpitti: gnome and main langpacks are currently pulled11:02
pittimvo: lamont can't test this?11:02
pittimvo: also, I'm actually more interested in getting a normal amd64/i386 upgrade test11:02
pittimvo: i. e. to check for regressions11:03
pittilool: so we just need the categorization for mobile and create l-p-mobile-XX, depending on l-p-gnome?11:03
loolpitti: What we _need_ is only hook support, like for firefox, openoffice.org etc.11:04
mvopitti: for regressions? right, I think I can ask bdmurray for this11:04
loolThe rest is all optional to whether we want mobile langpacks, but it's a lot of work for little savings11:04
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
dholbachhum... is cdimages.u.c slow for somebody else too?11:25
Hobbseewould it be a stupid question to ask why my keycodes for my multimedia keys appear not to work?11:30
=== cprov-out is now known as cprov
TomaszDhi, if anyone has a moment, this is very simple fix https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+bug/196953 , Polish users would appreciate this fix :]11:46
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196953 in firefox-3.0 "Add Polish translation to firefox.desktop (diff included)" [Undecided,New]11:46
TomaszD*this is a11:46
mjg59Do we have anything in the distribution right now that can parse GtkBuilder files?13:17
mjg59Our glade-3 doesn't seem enthusiastic, and gazpacho fails on startup13:17
Hobbseefeed it some red cordial.13:18
mjg59Hm. Yeah, need gazpacho 0.7.2...13:21
seb128hey mjg5913:21
seb128mjg59: did you read my comments about the dbus-send call and the backlight issue yesterday?13:22
mjg59seb128: Yeah. No clue what's going on there. As I said, dell-addon-backlight is an entirely separate chunk of code13:22
mjg59It's run as a separate process13:22
=== allee_ is now known as allee
seb128I'll try if that's happening using the git version13:23
seb128and open a bug upstream if that's the case13:23
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChild
mjg59lool: Any chance you could update gazpacho? We seem to have been on 0.7.1 since April :)13:25
Hobbseemjg59: *stab in the dark* - where would i start looking for why my multimedia keys have stopped showing up in xev, but used to all work fine?13:28
Hobbseeall but one seem to come up in the dbus stuff13:28
mjg59Hobbsee: Erm. No clue. X keymap change?13:29
mjg59No, that shouldn't affect it13:29
Hobbseemjg59: don't think so13:29
mjg59Are you using evdev?13:29
Hobbseemjg59: how do i check?13:30
mjg59lool: Eh. 0.7.2 fails in the same way for me13:31
mjg59AttributeError: GazpachoObjectBuilder instance has no attribute '_version'13:31
Hobbseemjg59: any idea about who i should bug about where to start looking?13:32
mjg59Hobbsee: I genuinely have no idea what could be causing that. If they're showing up in dbus, then the only thing I can think of is that it's an X problem13:33
mjg59Because they're clearly being generated by the kernel13:33
seb128pitti: would should we do with bug #196740?13:33
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196740 in gnome-utils "There are no debugging symbols for gnome-utils available" [Wishlist,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19674013:33
Hobbseemjg59: any idea why one of them isn't showing up in dbus then?13:34
mjg59Which one?13:34
Hobbseenext track13:34
Hobbseeprevious track does13:34
Hobbseebut next track is broken.13:35
mjg59Is it getting mapped?13:35
Hobbseehow do i check?13:35
mjg59See what it generates on the console with showkeys13:35
NgHobbsee: are they acpi event producing keys?13:35
NgI ask only because my blue thinkpad button has stopped sending events to xev, but acpid sees it13:36
loolmjg59: I never uploaded or used gazpacho *cough* ;)13:36
mjg59lool: packages.qa seems to have you in uploaders13:36
loolmjg59: I'm just an uploader as a result of pkg-gnome scripts13:36
mjg59lool: Ah13:36
mjg59Hobbsee: Erm.13:36
* lool slaps Hobbsee 13:36
KeybukHobbsee: are you ok?13:37
pittisomeone pleas stop Hobbsee13:37
loolSeems over13:37
mjg59Keyboard bugs are fun13:37
loolmjg59: But I can still have a look13:37
pittiseb128: no idea other than 'wait for new upload', I'm afraid13:37
mjg59lool: How on earth do you do any gtkbuilder work? We don't seem to have anything in the archive that actually works13:37
pittihm, libsvg wants to go to universe? that's surprising13:37
loolmjg59: I ... don't lalala13:38
KeybukHobbsee: /msg me when it's fixed and i'll unmute you13:38
loolmjg59: You work on the old glade file and convert it to gtkbuilder haha13:38
Keybuk(just in case +q - no offence intended)13:38
mjg59lool: Fail.13:38
seb128mjg59: work on a glade source and convert it to gtkui13:38
mjg59gazpacho is supposed to do this, but is broken13:38
Keybukdoes GtkBuilder fix the fact that your custom window cannot be derived from GtkWindow but has to be an instance of that class?13:39
loolseb128: Sound server isn't started anymore with the new gnome-session13:39
loolI'll try again13:39
ogra_cmpclool, isnt that started by an initscript ?13:41
emgentheya people13:41
seb128lool: do you have the gnome-settings-daemon update uploaded yesterday?13:41
loolseb128: Ah I might not13:41
Hobbseewell, that was interesting.13:41
seb128lool: you need it, it's the one starting the sound server now13:42
* lool tries that now13:42
cjwatson13:41 -!- mode/#ubuntu-devel [-b %*!n=hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] by Keybuk, Hobbsee13:42
Hobbseemjg59, Keybuk, pitti, lool, etc:  my apologies.  keyboard was on crack.13:42
cjwatsondon't believe I've ever seen that happen before13:42
loolseb128: I didn't; will pull it now13:42
KeybukHobbsee: no apology necessary13:42
pittiHobbsee: itz gtk bug13:42
Hobbseeit appears that it was sending the enter keypress every few miliseconds or so :P13:42
loolHobbsee: e13:43
looljust kidding ;)13:43
Keybukcjwatson: yours reports -b too, how weird13:43
Keybuk(the mode change was -q)13:43
Hobbseecjwatson: chanserv sometimes gets confused.  i've actually found a bug in it, too13:43
HobbseeKeybuk: yes, but it has a % which means a quiet.13:43
loolI get plenty of 404s from http://archive.ubuntu.com hmmm13:44
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
cjwatsonKeybuk: it reported the +q as +b too13:45
lool(Same here)13:45
Hobbseecjwatson: that's normal.  wish it didn't though, it keeps confusing users.13:45
Hobbsee+q == +b %13:45
loolBah my squid is on crack again13:46
pittiRiddell: kdepim-kde4 Depends: kdebase-runtime-bin, which is NBS13:51
emgentdholbach, ping (query)13:53
Hobbseeemgent: he's dog walking13:53
dholbachemgent: I saw the query but was too busy up until now and was just about to take my dog for a walk - sorry13:53
dholbachemgent: please be patient and wait for an email on the list, I did not forget about it13:54
emgentHobbsee, lol :)13:54
emgentkeescook, ping13:54
emgentok thanks dholbach :)13:54
Hobbseecalc: oops, you broke it.13:57
HobbseeE: /var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us_2.3.1-1_all.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation13:57
pittisuperm1: ubuntustudio-audio depends on rosegarden4, which is NBS; can you please fix the dependency?13:59
pittisuperm1: (oh, NBS == not built from source, thus it'll go away by the final release)13:59
_MMA_pitti: superm1 does Mythbuntu. Ill get one of our guys to fix it.14:02
persiaI thought we fixed that a while back?  Does it need a merge?14:03
_MMA_persia: I thought so. Though, Im a little fuzzy as to what changed.14:04
tonioseb128: hey ! I'm packaging a gnome app yet, and I wondered if there is a metapackage for gnome dev files like kdelibs4-dev14:10
tonioseb128: atm I have something like 20 -dev packages..... I'm sure there is a way to do better no ?14:10
seb128tonio: gnome-devel14:11
jdong anjuta (>= 1.2.0), bluefish,14:12
jdongseb128: are you *sure* that's the one he wants?14:12
jdonggnome-core-devel looks more appropriate14:13
seb128jdong: dunno, he took a example I don't know about14:13
seb128I'm not using KDE14:13
jdongseb128: I believe he just wanted a metapackage for common build-deps associated with gnome14:14
jdongrather than listing like 30 packages for the simplest of GNOME apps14:14
seb128jdong: feel free to reply to him, he asked on a public chan14:14
jdongtonio: ^^ see if gnome-core-devel fits the bill14:14
jdongseb128: I wasn't entirely sure of the answer myself14:14
seb128I've other things to do than discussing if my reply is what he wants ;-)14:14
tonioseb128: thanks, jdong, same14:16
* Hobbsee looks for a large brick14:16
* jdong hands Hobbsee a macbook pro14:16
Hobbseehrm.  do you want that back, in working order?14:16
jdongHobbsee: it worked to begin with?14:17
jdongone of my buds bought one to work with Linux. An interesting idea.14:17
Hobbseeyeah, good point14:17
jdongof course 3 hours later he opened it up and swapped out the broadcom wifi card14:17
jdongI'm quite sure that's not how Apple intended it to be used ;-)14:17
lifelessthe macbook air is _sweet_14:18
jdongnow it runs Linux great but doesn't run OS X at all14:18
thomlifeless: for values of sweet approaching sour14:18
Hobbseemjg59: bitter at the kernel team much?  :)14:22
* Hobbsee uses jdong's macbook, and knocks herself out. night all.14:29
lifelessthom: oh, you don't like14:38
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
* soren kicks /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-premount/resume15:01
jdongFailed to fetch http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/libg/libgweather/libgweather0_2.21.92-0ubuntu1_i386.deb  404 Not Found [IP: 80]15:04
jdongone of the archive.ubuntu.com servers seems to be 404'ing like mad15:04
thomlifeless: no, played with one, unimpressed15:05
=== DktrKranz2 is now known as DktrKranz
loolseb128: Even with latest updates, logon sound is still borkne for me15:08
loolpulseaudio is started, but I don't hear the logon sound15:08
seb128lool: ok, same for me, I'll try without the debian gsd startup patch and with the svn change version15:10
superm1lool, did you see my email wrg to ekiga?15:13
loolsuperm1: Yes15:14
loolsuperm1: I'm not particular tightened to ekiga, but will have a look15:14
seb128lool: doesn't work better15:15
superm1lool, okay well you had just done the last merge from what it looked, so rtg said to speak with you.  Thanks15:15
loolsuperm1: Yeah, that's what I guessed15:17
sorenKeybuk: It seems there's a race in the resume code in our initramfs.. Do you have a few minutes?15:22
Keybuksoren: sure15:23
sorenKeybuk: For reasons that will go unmentioned, I had to nuke my swap lv at some point and have now recreated it. This has reordered my lvm layout so that swap_1's /dev/disk/by-uuid link gets created a bit too late for the resume stuff to be able to see it.15:23
sorenAdding a tiny sleep or a call to udevsettle will fix it, but I'm sure you have a better idea. :)15:23
sorenWell, udevadm settle, but ykwim.15:24
sorenI could make a wait_for_resume_device loop akin to the one that waits for the root, but I'm not too hot on that either.15:25
Keybukresume is run from local-premount, no?15:26
Keybukso it's run after the wait-for-root loop?15:26
Keybukso shouldn't the swap device be there too?15:27
sorenI can see what you're getting at..15:27
sorenbut it's not.15:27
sorenThe thing is..15:27
Keybukit's on the same disk?15:27
sorenDue to the fact that I removed the lv and then created it again, it's now discovered as the last lv rather than one of the very first ones.15:28
sorenWell... I assume that's the reason.15:28
sorenIt worked just fine before then, and now, if I break=bottom, and manually do the resume /dev/disk/by-uiid/blahblahbl, it resumes just finne.15:28
sistpoty|workHobbsee | Riddell: can one of you two give a hint about the FFe for new package keurocalc? (bug #196123) thanks15:29
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196123 in ubuntu "[FFe] keurocalc port to kde4" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19612315:29
sorenI put a few "ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid/" into the resume script with a "sleep 1" in between. In the first one, it shows all the lv's up until and including the root, in the last one, it also has my swap.15:29
Keybukwhat does $RESUME contain when you do break=bottom ?15:29
sorenOh, that stuff is all fine.15:29
Keybukyeah, simple race then15:30
sorenThe path reference is just fine.15:30
Keybukto fix it properly15:30
KeybukI'd move the $RESUME -> $resume code from the resume script into init itself15:30
Keybukand then adjust the loop inside local to check for $ROOT and $resume existing15:31
sorenThat would work.15:31
sorenSort of.15:31
sorenThe problem is that it shouldn't fail if the resume device never shows up.15:31
pittiseb128: g-v-m with that patch uploaded; I had to fix the second upstream patch, took a little longer15:32
lifelessthom: I thought it was better than my d430 - lighter, less volume15:32
sorenKeybuk: I'm thinking about adding a second loop that times out after something as low as 5 seconds.15:33
seb128pitti: ok, thanks15:33
KeybukI *hate* never fail if never shows up problems15:33
seb128pitti: do you think we should revert the dual battery hal change?15:33
sorenKeybuk: ?!?15:33
Keybuksoren: racing $ROOT and $RESUME15:34
sorenKeybuk: I can't parse that sentence.15:34
Keybukin an ideal world, you'd just mount the root filesystem on the event for it being available15:34
pittiseb128: back to double batteries?15:34
Keybukand you'd resume from swap on the event for it being available15:34
pittiseb128: AFAICS we should rather change it to only consider /proc?15:34
sorenKeybuk: Right.15:34
Keybukbut you can't do that, because you have to wait for both to determine which you need to do15:34
sorenKeybuk: Exactly.15:34
Keybuk(see also: why we're not taking advantage of Upstart yet)15:34
Keybukit's worse, since depending on circumstance, one or the other may not show up at all15:35
sorenKeybuk: One could make the argument that hibernation and subsequent resuming from hibernation is somethat that will only reasonable take place on systems that don't need to wait several minutes for the resume partition to show up.15:35
pittiseb128: I don't know whether it's the right solution (i. e. whether the kernel puts wrong stuff in /sys or hal just reads it wrongly), but since batteries in /proc are known to work, we should maybe just go with that in hardy15:35
Keybukif you have $ROOT, how long do you wait before assuming $RESUME isn't going to show up15:35
seb128pitti: dunno if you read it yesterday but crimsun_ got some git changes fixing the battery notifications15:35
Keybukyou can always guarantee someone will file a bug, because their $RESUME shows up one second after whatever you pick15:35
pittiseb128: no, I didn't reat id15:36
sorenKeybuk: I realise.15:36
sorenKeybuk: Just as is the case for the current loop that waits for the root.15:36
pitticarlos: any idea about this translation regression? bug 19610615:36
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196106 in language-pack-kde-de "context menu entry "Paste File" [and other dialogs] not translated into German (anymore)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19610615:36
Keybukyou'd end up with15:37
cjwatsonKeybuk: could we put a marker in the root filesystem to say that you should wait for resume?15:37
Keybuk  on filesystem-available $ROOT and (filesystem-available $RESUME or 5s after filesystem-available $ROOT)15:37
Keybuktype things15:37
cjwatsonhmm, I suppose it would have to be on the device such that you didn't need to mount the filesystem to get at it15:37
Keybukcjwatson: doesn't protect you from corrupt swap partitions :-(15:38
Keybukor partial hibernation, etc.15:38
mjg59You can't partially hibernate15:38
Keybukmjg59: what happens if the power goes out while it's writing to swap?15:38
mjg59Oh, sorry, I see what you mean15:38
Keybukor (and I have seen this) some idiot using md as their swap partition15:39
Keybukcjwatson: of course, we could always use swap files on the root partition ;)15:40
* soren twitches15:40
cjwatsonI think we have to support swap partitions regardless of the default15:40
Keybukor mandate that the resume partition has to be on the same physical disk as the root15:40
sorenThat is the case here.15:40
cjwatsonwhich presumably still doesn't guarantee that they show up simultaneously15:40
cjwatsonjust quite close together15:41
sorenYet, it still races (and loses).15:41
Keybuknot when md, lvm, devmapper are involved - no15:41
cjwatsoneven without any of that, it can't create both devices at the same time15:41
sorenEr... lvm is involved.15:41
sorenAnd it races.15:41
Keybukcjwatson: I mean that it's easy to force waiting for the rest of the partitions on the same disk to all exist15:42
Keybukbut it's hard when you're actually waiting for a resultant block device15:42
Keybukudev may have seen the partitions, but it now has to go and run lvm, mdadm, etc.15:42
sorenWell, the block device is there.15:42
Keybukand those things use watershed15:42
sorenudev just hasn't quite gotten around to creating the uuid symlink.15:42
=== greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco
Keybuksoren: honestly, the best quick fix solution is just to copy the busy-loop out of local into resume15:43
Keybukand reduce it from 180 to 515:43
sorenKeybuk: That works.15:44
sorenKeybuk: Ok, I'll work something to that effect out when I get off the phone again. Thanks.15:47
=== j_ack__ is now known as j_ack
TomaszDexcuse me, does anyone know where can I find the _Unlock button for translation in gnome-system-tools admin applets? It's not in g-s-t, it's not in policykit-gnome...16:00
TomaszDforget it, my bad16:04
cjwatsondoko_: please commit your oem-config changes to bzr, preferably as a branch from the revision at which 1.28 was released which you then merge with evand's un-uploaded changes16:10
doko_cjwatson: ok, same for ubiquity?16:11
cjwatsonyou uploaded ubiquity? eek16:11
cjwatsonyes, absolutely16:11
doko_down to one build dependency on python-xml ...16:12
cjwatsonerm, but ubiquity is awkward because you aren't in the ubuntu-installer team16:12
cjwatsonplease publish a branch that we can merge16:12
cjwatsondoko_: also please don't use ubuntu1 versioning for packages maintained in Ubuntu as native packages16:14
cjwatsonoh, actually, you didn't, it was just the tarball ...16:14
doko_yep, noticed, but forgot to rename16:14
cjwatsondoko_: localechooser should be done in bzr too, if you were planning to do that16:15
pittiseb128: I just updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates16:15
pittiseb128: the procedure is *much* easier to read now IMHO; comments?16:16
cjwatsondoko_: if you haven't uploaded ubiquity yet, please don't, as evand is preparing an upload too16:18
* Keybuk tries to remember if you can match string literals in the C preprocessor #if16:18
seb128pitti: much nicer indeed16:18
seb128pitti: the procedure description is clear now16:19
doko_cjwatson: sorry, already done. or remove if from the queue?16:19
cjwatsontoo late :-(16:19
evanduh oh16:19
cjwatsonthe publisher is already munching on it16:19
sistpoty|workKeybuk: what do you want to achieve?16:19
evandI imagine I should cancel this then16:19
cjwatsonevand: you'll have to16:19
Keybuksistpoty|work:  #if SBINDIR == "/usr/sbin"16:19
doko_evand: I looked for you on the distro channel, but didn't find you there. forgot to look here16:20
cjwatsonuntil doko gives us a branch to merge so that you can punt this to 1.7.1416:20
cjwatsonthere were vcs-bzr headers in both packages, I believe16:20
evanddoko_, sorry, I'm somewhat in flux today and don't have xchat set up for Canonical IRC16:21
* seb128 hugs pitti, good work, I think it's great now ;-)16:21
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
* pitti hugs seb12816:21
doko_evand: patch is here, http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/tmp/ubiquity.diff my connection to the data center seems to be dead slow16:24
cjwatsondoko_: choose-mirror needs to go to bzr too (and again, there was a small unuploaded change; branch from r580)16:24
doko_cjwatson: I'll take care of that16:24
evanddoko_, thanks16:25
sistpoty|workKeybuk: seems like you can't: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/If.html#If16:25
Keybuksistpoty|work: yeah, reading C99 doesn't help either16:26
Keybukit doesn't really go into detail about what you can put there16:26
Keybukother than saying it has to be a constant expression16:26
sistpoty|workonly characters, but you cannot index a variable as well, so :(16:26
sistpoty|work(apart from integers of course)16:27
sistpoty|workKeybuk: if it uses autoconf, you could just set a definition to s.th. if sbindir is /usr/bin?16:28
Keybukwell, *yes* :p16:28
cjwatsonKeybuk: C99 6.4.5 para 6 "It is unspecified whether these arrays are distinct provided their elements have the appropriate values" which I think means you can't rely on pointer equality16:29
KeybukI wanted value equality though :)16:29
cjwatsonwell the preprocessor will only give you pointer equality16:30
cjwatsonerr, not even that actually, hmm16:30
Keybukthe preprocessor just gives me an error16:30
Keybukwhich pretty much answers the question no matter what the standard says ;)16:30
cjwatsonyeah, C99 says you can't do that16:30
cjwatson6.10.1 para 1 "shall be an integer constant expression"; 6.6 para 6 lists the operands that may be in an integer constant expression none of which include string literals16:31
* Keybuk returns C99 to its job of being a bookmark in Stevens APUE16:31
Keybuk(I'm not the only one who uses books as bookmarks for other books, right? :p)16:33
lifelessKeybuk: folding them closed around each other?16:33
Keybuklifeless: yeah, or leaving one open with the other on top of it to keep my place16:34
lifelessyah, I fo the dormer16:34
Keybukhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/0470845732/ -- best buy ever16:36
doko_bzr: ERROR: bzrlib.errors.UnlockableTransport: Cannot lock: transport is read only: <bzrlib.transport.http._urllib.HttpTransport_urllib url=http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-core-dev/localechooser/ubuntu/.bzr/repository/>16:46
* doko_ grumbles16:47
bddebianpitti: You around by any chance? (about clanbomber)16:47
LaserJockpitti: I feel so rejected ;-)16:49
ogra_cmpcLaserJock, what, did he not approve the MIR for squeak ? :016:50
Keybuksistpoty|work: the problem is that in autoconf, sbindir isn't fully evaluated yet17:02
evanddoko_, I've merged your changes in and uploaded a new ubiquity that reverted them.  It looks like you're already fixing this in localechooser and choose-mirror, though, so they'll go back in as soon as we release another ubiquity.17:11
evandassuming that the new localechooser and choose-mirror are in the archive at that point17:12
doko_evand: localechooser is17:12
doko_but not choose-mirror17:12
sistpoty|workKeybuk: oh... can't it work with some m4 that's getting evaluated once configure is called (assuming that you know autoconf much than I do *g*)?17:13
Keybuksistpoty|work: yes, but it's icky :p17:13
cjwatsondoko_: yeah, if you ever find yourself touching anything inside d-i/source/ in ubiquity or oem-config, please read d-i/README which tells you not to ;-)17:13
=== alleeHol is now known as allee
KeybukPumpernickle: do you mean to have so many clones?17:20
jpatrickKeybuk: he's host reminds me of a network troll I've had problems with..17:21
Keybukjpatrick: the nick is known to me17:21
Keybukso it's likely just network problems on his end and an unattended reconnecting IRC client17:22
Keybuk(giving him the benefit of the doubt - and in no way looking at the fact the numbers joined out of order <g>)17:22
jpatrickforwarding him to ##fix_your_connection would be best17:23
calcHobbsee: for whatever reason it was biting me before the update, so i requested the update hoping it might fix it, since it didn't i'm going to have to update the packaging as well :-\17:23
Keybukjpatrick: how do I do that?17:23
jpatrickKeybuk: /mode +b *!*@CPE0014d13c957e-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com!##fix_your_connection17:23
jpatrickKeybuk: and remove the last ban17:24
Keybukjpatrick: it won't let me add that as a ban17:25
jpatrickKeybuk: you could /op me a sec17:25
Keybuk MODE +b redirection channel: :That channel doesn't exist17:25
jpatrickKeybuk: whops, forgot: /mode #ubuntu-devel +b *!*@CPE0014d13c957e-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com!##fix_your_connection17:26
Keybukit's the fix_your_connection thing it's complaining about17:26
jpatrickhmm, the channel does exist and Pumper* is in there..17:27
Keybukno idea then17:27
Keybuksilly network17:27
jpatrickKeybuk: hmm, curious guy17:29
Keybukjpatrick: hmm?17:29
jpatrick /mode #ubuntu-devel +b *!*@CPE0014d13c957e-CM0012c9a9a6dc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com17:29
KeybukI've always wondered whether those still work if the host is cloaked :)17:30
jpatrickKeybuk: it does17:30
Keybukbored now, anyway17:30
Keybukhe's clearly either got a major problem, or trying to cause one17:30
=== doko_ is now known as doko
coastGNUcjwatson: Hi Colin. Is there a list for oem-config discussion/development?17:54
cjwatsoncoastGNU: ubuntu-installer@ will do17:55
coastGNUcjwatson: Ok, thanks. Next question, do you plan to handle persistent-net and persistent-cdrom via oem-config or is it up to the oem to place needed hook files for this?17:57
henoTo #ubuntu-devel: "Thank you for ubuntu!" -- from http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/151417:59
cjwatsoncoastGNU: hmm, good question, I hadn't particularly thought of that17:59
cjwatsoncoastGNU: could you file a bug for that? comes under the general category of reconfiguration for specific hardware18:00
coastGNUcjwatson: I'm writing an Article for freeX magazine and there are quite a lot question marks which came up in my mind over the last weks.18:01
coastGNUcjwatson: s/wek/week/18:01
stgraberheno: :)18:01
cjwatsoncoastGNU: oem-config development is basically whenever people ask for stuff :)18:02
coastGNUcjwatson: Hhhm, if you would ak me oem-config is the most promising tool to fix bug #1, isn't it18:11
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
cjwatsoncoastGNU: I'm not sure I'd go that far :-), but it's certainly useful18:27
terrexHi. Do you know how can I use internet inside PPA chroot? My package (maven) requires download pom and jar files from internet in order to build maven itself.18:55
cjwatsonyou can't; you need to put any necessary files in the source package itself18:56
cjwatson(this is intentional)18:56
terrexok, i'll try again but... there is a limit on the size of .orig.tar.gz ?18:56
cjwatsonterrex: no, aside from the usual PPA size limits18:57
terrexok, thanks!18:57
nicolahwill http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/ influence your work, developers ?19:06
stgrabernicolah: too late for Hardy, but AFAIK it'll be taken into account for the UDS to come (Intrepid Ibex)19:09
nicolahthanks for the answer stgraber I won't bother you anymore19:10
sorenslangasek: Any chance you could apply some love to bug 196868?  If I have to redo the kernel merge, kittens will die.19:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196868 in kvm "[ffe] Upgrade kvm from vers. 60 to 62" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19686819:19
sorenThat's meant as a threat, not a prophecy. I have a bag full of kittens and a sharp knife, and I'm ready to go.19:20
sorenWill someone *please* think of the kittens?19:21
_MMA_For shame. Laughing at the thought of dying kittens. ;)19:25
=== afflux_ is now known as afflux
slangaseksoren: I doesn't negoshurait wif terrists19:30
slangaseksoren: yeah, I'll be looking at that one today, but not for a few hours yet19:30
sorenZOMG! i haz bin lolcatzetzed.19:33
kavithi I was wondering if the kernel module firmware_class has been removed from the gutsy kernel or it has been compiled into it?19:34
kahrytanDoes anyone know if Hardy will use cx18 beta driver for ivtv?19:36
keescookslangasek: http://outflux.net/kittens.png19:39
slangasekkeescook: aieee19:41
jpatrickkeescook: that guy looks like my old maths teacher...19:49
\shjpatrick: that guy is himself ... the master in security ,-)19:50
soren\sh: Er.. No. It's slangasek. Not kees.19:51
keescookthat pictures is not of me.  :)19:51
\shs/security/release managing/ ,-)19:51
\shsorry ;) but the website is yours...19:51
keescookheh, yawp19:52
\shbut this smile on the face...I guess he hacked something before ;)19:54
slangasektjaalton: is there going to be any sort of final resolution of bug #133192?  it's been release-noted for quite a few alphas in a row now...19:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133192 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "Blank screen or distorted image because of wrong default AGPMode value" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13319219:55
\shI had such a smile yesterday, when I stresstestbroke our servers19:55
\shso time to leave for today...20:00
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
tjaaltonslangasek: oops, sorry.. it's fixed now20:06
tjaalton6.8.0-1 reverted the behaviour20:06
tjaaltonslangasek: I don't remember the gory details, but there is no silver bullet to the problem, there will be setups where the only resort is to play with BIOS settings20:10
slangasekso the current status is that the behavior matches the behavior from previous releases?20:12
slangasekok, that's probably good enough to take it out of the release notes then20:12
tjaaltonwe should make a MASTER bug about this..20:13
cjwatsondoko: I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't remove the details from the "Automatic update" changelog message21:02
cjwatsonthey are useful for tracking down bugs later on21:03
dokocjwatson: err, I didn't ...21:03
cjwatsondoko: did you not run 'debian/rules update'?21:03
doko  [ Matthias Klose ]21:04
doko  * Automatic update of included source packages.21:04
dokothat was included21:04
cjwatsonsomething must have gone wrong if it didn't include any details21:04
cjwatsonI would like to handle the next upload21:04
cjwatsona little worried something's out of sync somewhere subtle21:04
cjwatsonbut thanks for the merge/upload21:04
lagacjwatson: hello. cdimage.ubuntu.com is now building mythbuntu alternate disks. do i have to talk to you if i want to add preseeds?22:27
RichWhow does https://translations.launchpad.net read translations from projects?22:27
EnderTheThirdAnyone having troube with X.org taking 90+ % of CPU usage with Hardy Alpha 5?22:28
mbtEnderTheThird: No, at least not with an NVIDIA driver and Compiz.  Are you using VESA or something along those lines?22:31
EnderTheThirdmbt:  no.  intel22:32
mbtEnderTheThird: Strange.  Sounds like a bug to me.22:33
EnderTheThirdDell GX260.  No powerhouse by any stretch of the imagination, but it should at least be able to do 2D.  (no Compiz)22:33
EnderTheThirdyeah, it's unbearably slow.22:34
mbtWell, maybe try switching to the VESA driver and see if that speeds things up.  At least that would likely pinpoint the cause as being the Intel driver.22:35
EnderTheThirdI'll give it a whirl.  brb22:37
EnderTheThirdmuch better with vesa.  It's still not as responsive as I'd think it should be, but it's usable.22:39
mbtYeah, the vesa driver is very not optimized.  But, I think that probably just gave you enough information to report the problem22:39
EnderTheThirdmoving windows is awful, heh22:40
mbtlol yeah, though you can tweak some settings in gconf to do wire-frames and the like22:40
EnderTheThirdGutsy performance wasn't too great either.  Weird thing is that I remember it running better with 6.06 and 6.10, even with Compiz/Beryl.22:41
EnderTheThirdnevermind.  it's not just with the Intel driver22:44
EnderTheThirdIt seems to be jumping around with Vesa too.22:44
mbtIt will.22:44
mbtIt's doing most everything with the host CPU instead of with the GPU when using the VESA driver.22:44
mbtBut CPU use shouldn't stay consistently high unless you've got a lot of screen updates.22:45
EnderTheThirdI'm going to try downgrading to 6.06 after the d/l completes.  I remember it being much faster on 6.06.  We'll see if it's just my crappy memory, heh.22:46
EnderTheThirdThanks for the help.22:48
mbtNo problem.22:49
EnderTheThirdAnd also for being the only one active in this channel, ha22:49
mbtlol I idle a lot too22:50
EnderTheThirdYeah, but 233 idlers, that's just ridiculous22:52
RichWshould be a idlerpg competition in here22:53
EnderTheThirdMy god man, you just might be onto something!22:53
RichWthere is a #idlerpg22:53
EnderTheThirdThat is terrifying.22:53
RichWUser: Joe_Berelum   Total time idled: 1501 days, 18:47:3922:55
jdongwouldn't your freenode registration expire?22:56
jdongbecause he hasn't identified to nickserv for 120 days or whatever?22:56
EnderTheThirdanyone else find it funny that talking about being idle is bringing idle people out of their idle slumber?22:57
jdongI was never in idle slumber :)22:58
EnderTheThirdor bringing them back from the toilet...  ;)22:58
mathiazmvo: how can I do an upgrade from dapper to hardy on a server ?23:06
mathiazmvo: is there a do-release-upgrade command ?23:06
mvomathiaz: yes - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HardyUpgrades#head-e7f287c730b93116f89de7ea7e05efbe95fa6dd123:07
* sistpoty still believes that apt-get dist-upgrade should just work for people not installing 3rd party stuff23:07
mathiazmvo: ok - thanks.23:07
mvosistpoty: for dapper->hardy? it will not, you will have to upgrade apt and dpkg first if you do it manually, the problem is the new "Breaks" field23:08
sistpotymvo: than that's wrong and should be fixed imho *g*... but I must admit that I upgrade my gf's laptop with dist-upgrade, and it was just too smooth to be real ;)23:09
sistpotynot with dist-upgrade, but with the updater python thingy you wrote23:09
mvosistpoty: from dapper?23:10
sistpotymvo: from feisty to gutsy23:10
mvosistpoty: nice, good to hear :)23:10
mvosistpoty: the fix for this would be to not use breaks until the next lts got released in order to maintain compatiblity. that is a bit drastic IMO - or to backport it to dapper, but that is quite a change as well23:11
mdkethe first fix wouldn't work surely, because you'd just have the same problem with lts+2, no?23:11
mdkebut I can see sistpoty's point, I would have thought a lot of server admins will try dist-upgrade from dapper to hardy23:13
sistpotymvo: right, I guess even having s.th. getting upgraded first (e.g. libc) pre-depend on the new apt wouldn't work, due to the circular nature23:14
mvomdke: I agree that this is not a ideal situation - but I can not see what we can do (except for backporting)  - the solution we have is the release-upgrader that does some additional checks and shouldn't get in the way of any admin in server mode23:15
mdkemvo: yeah. The only thing we can do is try and get the message to as many people as possible that dist-upgrade won't work23:15
mvosistpoty: yeah, even if we could make it work somehow it would be rather messy23:15
sistpotythat's true, and I guess it would open a can of worms trying to fix it23:16
mvomdke: we discussed issuing a update to dappers apt that will give a big warning on dist-upgrade (if any of the upgraded-to packages are hardy)23:16
mvosistpoty: *nod*23:16
mdkemvo: sounds like a plan23:17
mvomathiaz: please let me know how well the upgrade worked for you - in case of problems, please send me the logs in /var/log/dist-ugprade23:19
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
jdongIs there any way in pbuilder to set make -j NUM_CPUs?23:56
persiajdong: Add a hook that sets MAKEFLAGS before calling dpkg-buildpackage?23:58
jdongpersia: is that the proper way to do it (i.e. what the buildds would do)?23:58
persiajdong: I'm not sure.  Maybe setting parallel=n in DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS?  From past traffic in debian-devel, it seems to generate more FTBFS issues.23:59

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