* Hobbsee waves01:05
jdongHobbsee: hey you want to sponsor in Transmission before the freeze?01:23
* jdong adds a pretty please or two to that01:23
Hobbseenot from here, no :)01:24
Hobbseeremind me in ~10 hours01:24
TheMusojdong: What is being changed?01:35
jdongTheMuso: new upstream release, FFe granted01:38
jdongbug INSERTNUMBERHERE (lemme actually find it)01:38
jdongthat's bug 196138, dgettable dsc provided01:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196138 in transmission "Please update to 1.06" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19613801:39
TheMusojdong: Its building now, will upload after lunch.01:56
jdongTheMuso: sweet, thanks :)01:57
TheMusojdong: uploaded.02:42
jdongTheMuso: whee :) thanks02:42
RAOFjdong: You're trying to make me able to use mythtv:// urls in totem, right?02:42
* RAOF has experienced ECONFLATE error, and will now shut up.02:44
RAOFIt's actually superm1 I'm thinking of.02:44
* superm1 says hi02:44
RAOFsuperm1: _You_ are the one trying to make mythtv:// urls work in totem?02:45
superm1uh oh02:45
superm1whatd i do02:45
RAOFNothing?  I'd just quite like it to work, and it doesn't.02:45
superm1well that's not exactly how the plugin works..02:46
superm1there is a second piece to it still to make it "user friendly"02:46
superm1via upnp02:46
superm1but for now do this02:46
superm1open gconf-editor02:46
superm1and find the gmyth key02:46
superm1and set your DB02:46
superm1and user name and pass and stuff02:47
superm1then activate the plugin in totem, and it should be a drop down option on the side bar02:47
RAOFAh.  Right.02:47
superm1that reminds me i should send another email to gmyth-devel to straighten the licensing on gmyth-upnp02:48
superm1i sent one almost a week ago now02:48
RAOFI suggest infiltrating upstream and dumping license headers into VCS.02:49
superm1i should.02:50
superm1the weird thing is they were responsive within like 30 minutes before02:50
superm1so i'm not sure if they just fell off the side of the earth or what02:50
RAOFsuperm1: I don't suppose gmyth is going to stream DVB over the network anytime soon?02:56
superm1well it can, the only thing missing is the interface02:56
superm1it can do livetv urls02:56
RAOFRight.  So it should be possible to do livetv://2 or something?02:57
superm1i dont know the exact syntax for it02:57
superm1but it is quite possible to do02:57
Kanohi, why not adding bash-completion and enabling this by default? the new bash package does not have /etc/bash_completition included anymore, it is external03:58
Kanohi laga , did you update aufs for lum?03:58
=== bryce_ is now known as bryyce
=== kitterma is now known as ScottK2
=== lando_ is now known as lando
=== sourcode_ is now known as sourcode
warp10Good morning06:45
pittiGood morning06:48
Kanohi pitti, could you add bash-completion by default?07:20
pittiKano: technically yes, but this should be discussed on u-devel@ first; IIRC there were reasons for dropping it07:21
Kanowell it was "dropped" because bash package was updated and now it is split. before it was just in bash itself07:22
torkelKano: it wasn't turned on by default before, was it?07:44
Kanowell it should be turned on, as it is very nice to have07:45
tjaaltonhum, cron.daily/apt tries to run gconftool, but apt does not depend on it, so maybe it should check for it's existence before running it?07:51
Amaranthtjaalton: wow that was fast07:51
Amaranth3 minutes after i marked that dupe you corrected it :P07:52
tjaaltonAmaranth: hehe :)07:52
=== doko_ is now known as doko
=== carlos_ is now known as carlos
mdkepitti: just read your comment on bug 123963 - I don't know how to debdiff could have been broken08:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 123963 in ubuntu-docs "Ubuntu 7.04 and 7.10 documentation updates have not been done" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12396308:22
pittimdke: doesn't matter much anyway08:22
pittimdke: just tell me how to build a source package, or build it and put it somewhere, and I'll sponsor it08:22
mdkepitti: anyway you can grab the branch at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-doc/gutsy08:22
mdkefrom that you can just build it with debuild08:23
pittiah, nice08:23
mdkenothing else to do08:23
pitticarlos: do you know how bug 196106 could have happened?08:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196106 in language-pack-kde-de "context menu entry "Paste File" [and other dialogs] not translated into German (anymore)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19610608:24
mdkei'm slightly worried the debdiff broke though08:24
carlospitti: let me check....08:24
RAOFtjaalton: How's nouveau-in-experimental going?  (Man nouveau is so much faster than the blob at scrolling firefox)08:26
RAOFtjaalton: (That was you, right? I've not had a good time of names recently)08:26
carlospitti: without checking anything, I can only 'blame' a bad translator08:26
pitticarlos: like actively deleting a translation?08:26
carloskind of, yes. Let me do some checking to confirm/reject that idea08:28
pittiok, thanks08:29
pittisince I have no real idea about it,the POTs certainly didn't change?08:30
carlospitti: we got an updated at the end of January08:33
carlospitti: although I don't know whether it included a change or not08:33
* carlos is still looking into this problem08:33
tjaaltonRAOF: sorry, I bumped into issues that prevented that08:35
tjaaltonRAOF: but experimental will soon get new mesa&drm, so it should be easier then08:37
carlospitti: I found the problem, but I need to talk with danilo and jtv before I can provide you with a solution...08:58
pitticarlos: ah, great; shall I create a rosetta task for the bug for tracking?08:58
carlospitti: it's related with some data migration when we added native kde plural forms support08:58
carlospitti: yes, please08:58
carlospitti: it affects all KDE language packs, though, not just German ones08:59
carlosbut only messages with plural forms that are not manually fixed/retranslated08:59
pitticarlos: done09:01
james_wdoko: hi. We have a new result of bzr still not being installable, even after yesterday's rebuild. It's a different error though. https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/19784109:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 197841 in bzr "ppa bzr package 1.2~rc1-1build2 for Ubuntu Hardy fails to install" [Undecided,New]09:06
james_wdoko: would you take a look? I'll investigate tonight if not. Thanks.09:06
dokojames_w: looking ...09:06
james_wdoko: thanks.09:07
dokojames_w: please could you email me the /var/cache/apt/archives/bzr_1.2-1~bazaar1~hardy4_i386.deb package, or tell me where I can find it?09:09
james_wdoko: ah, it is the ppa, sorry, I got confused.09:09
james_wdoko: I'll fix it tonight then. Sorry to trouble you.09:10
pittimvo: good morning09:11
mvogood morning pitti09:11
pittimvo: seems the new compiz session management doesn't fix all things for us :(09:12
pittimvo: does it actually work for you?09:12
pittimvo: it seems to remember the correct workspace now, but placement and size of gnome terminals (and maybe other apps) is still not working09:12
mvopitti: is it not working at all for you? or just not as good as metacity?09:12
pittiin fact that got worse09:12
pittimvo: let's say it's by far not as good as gutsy's metacity09:12
* mvo nods09:12
pittihardy's metacity's session management regressed as well09:13
pittiseems it's converging in the wrong direction :/09:13
mvoyeah :/09:13
mvoI will check and talk to upstream about it - does it get all windows wrong or specific ones?09:13
pittimvo: the gnome-terminal with mutt inside was quite alright09:14
pittimvo: the 'plain' (shell) gnome-terminals were totally wrong09:14
=== cprov is now known as cprov-afk
pittiseb128: bonjour09:26
seb128guten tag pitti09:26
pittiseb128: hm, seems that my deskbar applet forgot about all plugins but the internet searches (e. g. devhelp or dictionary); do you have the same?09:27
seb128pitti: seems to be the case yes09:28
cjwatsonlaga: right now, there's no good way to exclude items from seeds like that09:32
cjwatsonlaga: "!" is the blacklist syntax, which is much stronger (it means "don't include this package in this seed, and prevent it being included in any of the seeds that inherit from me either"), and may not do a good job of dependencies09:33
cjwatsonjames_w: for the record I reassigned that CD menu bug you talked about to gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, which implements our CD boot menu09:33
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
cjwatsonpecisk: no, they aren't incorporated automatically, but semi-automatically (i.e. I have some scripts to update them that I run occasionally); I'm pulling in your Latvian translation now09:58
peciskoh, nice to hear that09:59
peciskwhen I can expect it in daily live cd?09:59
cjwatsonpecisk: tomorrow09:59
pecisknice, thanks :)09:59
seb128cjwatson, evand: is there any bug about translations not being used on the desktop daily images?10:02
cjwatsonpecisk: though I do need to change a few strings (for bug 66881), so a few parts will still end up untranslated, I'm afraid10:02
ubotuLaunchpad bug 66881 in debian-installer "Help text is misleading or inaccurate for boot methods" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6688110:02
cjwatsonseb128: in what context?10:02
seb128cjwatson: when selecting french and using the desktop testing option I get an english desktop, french language packs are installed but the environment is set to C and there is no /etc/default/locale10:04
cjwatsonseb128: so you mean in the live session, pre-install?10:04
seb128right, not the ubiquity option but the desktop one10:04
seb128cjwatson: sorry if I'm not clear, I use virt-manager10:06
seb128boot a daily iso10:06
seb128pick french10:07
seb128"Try Ubuntu without any change to your computer"10:07
seb128the desktop I get is an english one, environment is set to C and there is no /etc/default/locale configuration10:07
cjwatsonseb128: I can't find a bug about that, though of course it could be misfiled; it should go on casper10:08
sorendoko: Java is failing in firefox for me on amd64. While reading through some of the bug comments about this on Launchpad, someone suggested that rebuilding it yourself fixed it. I was skeptical, but tried it, and it actually does fix it. Maybe there's a build dependency missing that is commonly installed on people's systems?10:08
seb128cjwatson: ok, will open one on casper then, thanks10:08
sorendoko: Unfortunately I wasn't clever enough to keep build logs around :(10:08
fabbionesoren: you too?10:08
cjwatsonseb128: I suspect it's because there's no /etc/default/locale in the live squashfs so it decides to write it to /etc/environment instead10:08
sorenfabbione: What? Not being clever? :)10:08
cjwatsonseb128: or do you mean it's not set in /etc/environment either?10:09
cjwatsonseb128: please attach /var/log/casper.log to the bug10:09
fabbionesoren: java crashing.. dude.. :P10:09
seb128cjwatson: there is an environment where LANG is set, but you made me modify gdm to use /etc/default/locale ;-)10:09
sorenfabbione: :p  Yeah, it segfaults consistently.10:09
fabbionesoren: indeed10:09
sorenfabbione: Rebuilt it locally (in my regular system, not in an sbuild of course), and it works.10:10
sorenfabbione: I'll rebuild it again, saving the build logs. Maybe I'll be able to spot the difference between the build logs from LP and my local one.10:10
cjwatsonseb128: indeed :-)10:11
peciskcjwatson: about those installer help strings - but it will be possible to translate them till release?10:12
fabbionesoren: sounds like a good plan (that you do it...)10:12
cjwatsonpecisk: up to NonLanguagePackTranslationDeadline on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule10:13
sorenfabbione: It's already running..10:13
cjwatsonseb128: or I can just fix it now if you haven't filed the bug yet ...10:13
seb128cjwatson: I didn't, I was trying to figure how to copy the caspoer log out of the virtual machine which has no network set10:16
seb128cjwatson: thanks ;-)10:16
pittiseb128: FYI, I fixed the amd64 retracer chroot, retracer restarted now10:17
seb128pitti: what was wrong? I fixed the i386 ones on saturday, they were crasher on out of ressources and I had to update it manually it had issue with the fontconfig update10:19
pittiseb128: chroot was out of date due to some postinst failure10:19
seb128pitti: ok, might have been the same issue than the i386 one, but that was saturday and I didn't want to work too much so I didn't look at the amd64 one10:20
pittiseb128: hey, that wasn't meant as a blame in any way :) just keeping ourselves up to date10:21
* pitti hugs seb12810:21
* seb128 hugs pitti10:22
seb128thanks ;-)10:22
cjwatsonseb128: casper fixed (I think), thanks10:24
seb128cjwatson: thank you ;-)10:24
pittimvo: which package does the 'enable visual effects' tab come from? (for adding a bug task to bug 193978)10:25
ubotuLaunchpad bug 193978 in jockey "Jockey isn't used from Visual Effects tab" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19397810:25
pittimvo: does this selector still want/need to call jockey for --check-composite?10:26
emgentpitti heya10:26
pittimvo: is that gnome-control-center?10:26
pittihi emgent10:26
emgentpitti, have you time for main upload in hardy?10:27
emgentsecurity fix for openldap10:27
emgentmalone #19707710:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 197077 in openldap2.2 "6.06 LTS: CVE-2007-6698, CVE-2008-0658" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19707710:27
seb128pitti: gnome-control-center10:28
seb128pitti: I'll likely do an upload today, I'll fix that too10:28
dokosoren: known, I did want to delay that until I have icedtea6 working; it can be a build dependency, or the kernel running on the buildd. I don't know (promised elmo to do a build on ronne and see if a package built on that machine works or nor, but didn't do yet)10:30
pittiseb128: on the g-c-c side this should just be s/r-m/jockey-gtk/10:30
seb128pitti: ok10:30
pittiok, bug task added with a description10:31
emgentpitti, have you time for upload this ? :)10:32
pittiemgent: I'd rather leave this to the security team (jdstrand, keescook) TBH10:33
emgentnope it's for hardy10:33
pittiemgent: can you please send the debdiff to security@ubuntu.com? it's highly appreciated10:33
emgentthere isnt hardy-security now10:33
pittiemgent: ah, for hardy; yes, can do10:33
emgentpitti, thanks :P10:33
emgenti'm in motu-swat, know procedures eheheh, Thanks10:34
mvopitti: yes, g-c-c10:36
mvoseb128: thanks for looking into this, fix should be straightforward10:36
seb128mvo: no problem, that's just changing the command in the desktop effects patch10:37
* mvo hugs seb12810:37
* seb128 hugs mvo10:37
=== juliank0 is now known as juliank
emgentpitti, please open task too, i can only nominate ubuntu version affected. Thanks :P10:40
pittiemgent: already done10:40
emgentpitti, cool10:41
sorendoko: Ok, cool. I've got plenty of cpu cycles to spare right now, so I'll just let the build finish that I have running on my local system, and after that, I'll try in an up-to-date sbuild on my local system as well and see if that works.10:41
dokosoren: thanks, currently spending my cpu's for the v6 packages10:42
pittiemgent: uploaded, thanks10:43
emgentpitti, cool :P10:43
sorendoko: No worries. :)10:44
\shasac: if you have an usb headset, set your soundconfig in gnome to default to the headset and try to get some sound from flashplayer (adobe) on the headset...I tried that on different systems (amd64/i386) and I don't succeed...I tested it with gutsy and it works as expected...10:55
\shasac: I wonder if it's a regression using pulseaudio now or what...strangly I get the login sound of gnome when using newly connected headset also very late10:57
* \sh is going to reboot...10:58
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
ion_sigh, away nicks10:58
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
\shasac: bug #14435611:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 144356 in flashplugin-nonfree "Audio from Flash in Firefox does not go to correct sound device" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14435611:21
\shasac: but I think you are the wrong guy to bother...11:21
\shwho is responsible for pulseaudio? :)11:21
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
asacok ;)11:22
\shasac: but, one question, there was the possibility to set another soundcard for usage in FF somehow...I wonder if that works11:22
asacsoundcard? not that i know of ... you could set FIREFOX_DSP11:23
\shasac: which defaults to "none" regarding /etc/firefox-3.0/firefoxrc11:23
\shah..crimsun is the one to bug ;)11:25
\shcrimsun_: hehe :)11:25
\shcrimsun_: please read the bugreport I mentioned a few lines above..11:26
crimsun_just did11:26
\shcrimsun_: fun part: mic of headset works...soundoutput via headset -> no way, but built-in card sound's there11:26
crimsun_so with libflashsupport (and pulseaudio-esound-compat) installed, for GNOME, the configured "default" card via alsa-lib (using an asoundrc, e.g., with asoundconf set-default-card) does not function correctly or as anticipated?11:27
\shcrimsun_: right...headset is now default device (asoundconf set-default-card ...) restarted gnome, sound from gnome comes via headset...but flashplugin (nonfree) uses still the built-in card...11:28
crimsun_pulseaudio is configured to ignore a user's asoundrc, so that symptom is expected.11:28
\shcrimsun_: even gnome-sound-settings is set to the default (headset)11:28
crimsun_you can verify that it's pulseaudio<->libflashsupport by removing pulseaudio and libflashsupport11:29
crimsun_("it's"->"it's pulseaudio's/libflashsupport's fault")11:29
asac_12:26 < asac> \sh: i am not even sure that this is used anymore11:30
asac_12:28 < asac> \sh: it just started ffox with the given sound wrapper11:30
asac_12:28 < asac> so maybe try that by hand to see if it helps11:30
\shcrimsun_: apt-get remove pulseaudio libflashsupport ?11:31
\shargl...apt-get remove libflashsupport wants to remove flashplugin-nonfree11:31
crimsun_\sh: ah, right, it's now a dependency11:31
ogra_cmpccrimsun_, are you sure its needed on non networked pules ?11:31
crimsun_well, dpkg --force-depends -P libflashsupport11:32
crimsun_ogra_cmpc: where "it" refers to libflashsupport?11:32
ogra_cmpccrimsun_, right11:32
ogra_cmpci know my ltsp users never had probs locally, only with the networked connection11:33
crimsun_ogra_cmpc: I didn't make the change that makes flashplugin-nonfree Depend on libflashsupport, and no, I don't believe it's necessary11:33
* ogra_cmpc didnt make that either11:33
\shcrimsun_: I removed pulseaudio...let me restart gnome...one min11:33
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
\shcrimsun_: removing and stopping pulseaudio helped11:35
crimsun_Keybuk: is your 96_uinput_device_support.patch in Ubuntu's hal bzr intended for hardy?  (I'm unsure whether to number an intended patch 96 or 97, so I chose the latter for a proposed fix for 19405211:35
crimsun_Keybuk: ..and 194719)11:35
crimsun_\sh: post-removing libflashsupport?11:36
\shcrimsun_: nope...only killall -9 pulseaudio :)11:36
crimsun_\sh: with libflashsupport still installed?11:36
\shcrimsun_: jepp11:36
Keybukcrimsun_: yes11:37
crimsun_\sh: ok, thanks11:37
crimsun_Keybuk: thanks.11:37
\shcrimsun_: any theory? :)11:37
crimsun_seb128: several people have reported positive feedback that fixes the battery-reporting regressions by using the 97_fix_power_info_via_sysfs.patch I've added to my hal bzr branch, but I'm waiting for additional feedback11:38
crimsun_seb128: do you feel it's safer to revert the 01_proc_sys_batteries.patch or to merge 97_fix_power_info_via_sysfs?11:39
seb128crimsun_: question for pitti11:39
ogra\sh, try without libflashsupport but with pulse running11:40
seb128crimsun_: I think we need to address the dual battery issue in hardy anyway so might make sense to patch rather than revert11:40
crimsun_seb128: thanks.11:40
ogra\sh, i think the dependency is wrong here, that should be a recommends or suggests11:40
=== asac__ is now known as asac
crimsun_(will read scrollback tonight.)11:43
seb128crimsun_: where are your changes btw?11:43
Hobbseemvo: it's all your fault.  iv'e filed you a bug.11:55
\shcrimsun_: gimme a sec...11:55
hungerlibicu36-dev and libicu36 are marked as obsolete in aptitude here. That has been so for a while... Will libboost-regex get updated soon, so that those debs can get dropped for good?11:56
hungerOh, it is already fixed;-) aptitude just has not noticed that libicu-dev can replace libicu36-dev:-)11:59
\shogra: give me again your magic dpkg call?12:01
\shah..--force-all helps12:02
* \sh relogins12:02
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
\shcrimsun_: dpkg -r --force-all libflashsupport -> sound works (after relogin, pulseaudio running)12:04
\shcrimsun_: and flash doesn't use PA anymore...12:05
\shcrimsun_: according to padevchooser/manager12:05
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pittiseb128, crimsun_: hal> seems that Debian works on a git head checkout with loads of bug fixes, which includes this problem; seems upstream isn't too interested in releasing a 0.5.11, despite several requests12:09
\shcrimsun_: updated bug #14435612:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 144356 in flashplugin-nonfree "Audio from Flash in Firefox does not go to correct sound device" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/14435612:09
pitticrimsun_: 97_fix_power_info_via_sysfs sounds interesting, where is that?12:09
seb128crimsun_: look on his code.launchpad.net maybe?12:10
seb128pitti: ^12:10
pittiseb128: ok12:12
pittiseb128, crimsun_: found it12:13
pitticrimsun_: that's missing http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=hal.git;a=commitdiff;h=85390b2b5b45253f64867895204d95bf2e1dc357, I'll add that as well, ok?12:23
pittiseb128: yep, that fixes it instantly \o/12:31
* Hobbsee hugs pitti12:31
* pitti hugs Hobbsee back12:31
Hobbseeguten tag.  Wie gehts?12:32
pittiHobbsee: prima, danke!12:32
lagaif i was granted a free wish, i'd ask that an archive admin looks at mythbuntu-diskless-client-builder in the NEW queue so we can get our Mythbuntu alternate disks built.12:34
lagatoo bad there are no fairies :/12:34
Spadslaga: I'd wish for more wishes.12:35
Spads(Just saying)12:35
lagaSpads: true. just gotta avoid recursion12:36
Hobbseelaga: hint:  offer beer.12:37
lagaHobbsee: to the fairy?12:37
Hobbseelaga: to the archive admin.  would you trust a drunk fairy?12:38
lagaHobbsee: would i trust a drunk archive admin? well, he'd be more likely to miss problems in the package12:39
Hobbseelaga: the archive admins take a fair few beers to get them drunk.12:40
Mithrandirwe could also first review the package, then drink the beer12:41
lagayes, that'd makes sense.12:41
* laga offers virtual beer12:41
* soren once again has a process in Running state, using all of one of his cores, that won't be kill -9'ed :(12:42
Hobbseelaga: it's usually future-beer, payable at the next FOSS event you see them at12:43
superm1mmm future beer.  much better than old past beer.12:45
superm1everything tastes better in the future.12:46
emgentHobbsee, please can you open task to malone #19594912:49
ubotuLaunchpad bug 195949 in vlc "VLC Arbitrary memory overwrite in the MP4 demuxer" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19594912:49
emgenti can only nominate :(12:49
Hobbseeemgent: open task?12:50
emgentNominate for release12:51
seb128pitti: excellent, do you plan to upload that to hardy?12:51
emgenti'm not motu and i cant open task.12:51
emgentplease open for my nominate release :P12:51
pittiseb128: today, yes12:51
Hobbseeemgent: for which release?12:51
* seb128 hugs pitti12:52
seb128pitti: thanks12:52
emgent Nominated  for Dapper  by Emanuele Gentili12:52
emgentNominated for Edgy by Emanuele Gentili12:52
emgentNominated for Feisty by Emanuele Gentili12:52
emgentNominated for Gutsy by Emanuele Gentili12:52
emgentplease open task for this12:52
Hobbseethere you are12:53
seb128hey kagou12:55
emgentthanks Hobbsee13:01
=== pbn_ is now known as pbn
Hobbseeyou're welcome13:01
ograsigh, does anyone else have probs rsyncing from cdimage.u.c ?13:16
thegodfatherogra: yes13:26
sorenogra: Nope. Works fine.13:26
sorenhardy-desktop-amd64.iso 20.67M   2%    1.53MB/s    0:07:3613:26
thegodfatherogra: it's berillium that hangs from time to time13:26
thegodfathersoren: depends which one you get13:26
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
sorenAh. I'm using chromium.13:27
fabbionedidn't have time to ping #is for that13:27
fabbionei noticed this night because i found hanging sessions for weeks13:27
sorenberyllium works for me, too.13:28
fabbionesoren: it hangs from time to time.. probably it depends from the load13:28
soren$ rsync beryllium.canonical.com::13:29
sorencdimage        Ubuntu CD Images13:29
sorenAh, yes. That might be.13:29
fabbionesoren: download from it a big fat image13:29
fabbionenot just the index13:29
Mithrandirfabbione: fwiw, I can confirm it13:29
fabbionesoren: for me it was bailing out at 75% of transfer13:29
fabbioneSpads, Ng: ^^^ ping rsync13:29
Spadsfabbione: hmm, want to discuss it in #canonical-sysadmin?13:30
fabbioneSpads: sure.. one sec13:30
jdstrandemgent: I am working on fixes for openldap for stable releases13:34
jdstrandemgent: hi btw :)13:34
emgentheya jdstrand :P13:34
emgentjdstrand, please see malone #19707713:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 197077 in openldap2.2 "6.06 LTS: CVE-2007-6698, CVE-2008-0658" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19707713:35
emgentgutsy and feisty debdiff ready.13:35
emgenthardy uploaded.13:35
emgentthere is a little problem in dapper13:35
emgenti saw your changelog post, but is wrong13:35
emgentyou wrote debian/patches/CVE_* in changelog, but in dapper there isnt debian/patches directory13:36
=== asac_ is now known as asac
jdstrandemgent: yeah-- it's inline13:37
emgentyep, i saw that later, only changelog is wrong :P13:37
emgentanyway when you have time please consider my debdiff for openldap2.2 on #19707713:38
emgentsee also malone #19594913:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 195949 in vlc "VLC Arbitrary memory overwrite in the MP4 demuxer" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19594913:38
emgentand malone #19119613:39
jdstrandemgent: I shall.  thanks!13:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 191196 in gnatsweb "[gnatsweb] [CVE-2007-2808] cross-site scripting vulnerability" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19119613:39
emgentall debdiff ready :)13:39
emgentjdstrand, thanks to you :P13:39
emgentoh jdstrand some hour ago one user join to ubuntu-hardened, seems to security@ubuntu.com reject mail13:43
emgentkeescook mail too.13:43
emgentuser sent to me this mail, i will send to you now13:43
* jdstrand nods13:44
emgentjdstrand, done. sent to jamie@ubuntu.com13:45
ScottKemgent: FYI, since these channels are logged, email addresses posted here tend to get scraped by spammers.13:46
emgentScottK, right, sorry.13:46
* ScottK isn't who might need the apology. None of those addresses are mine ...13:47
emgentAddresses are also in wiki but it is your right is a way of thinking13:49
emgentsorry people.13:49
* Treenaks gave up, and just installed spam filters13:50
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pittiseb128: hal uploaded, it works for me; feedback from you appreciated, since you had a range of problems14:09
seb128pitti: thanks14:09
seb128pitti: I'll try ask soon as the update is available14:09
sorenpitti: Power management related changes, by any chance?14:09
pittisoren: yes, fixes reading battery info14:10
seb128soren: fix the battery charge being wrong, icon displayed on ac, etc14:10
pittii. e. THE battery bugs du jour14:10
sorenSounds great.14:10
seb128I guess I'll still have the timeout when changing backlight thing though14:10
pittihm, didn't try that one14:10
seb128I should try git and bug upstream if the bug is there too14:10
pittisjoerd: ^ btw, I saw that you gave up on 0.5.11 and started packaging 0.5.10+git head; great! I was this --><-- close to doing the same, and I'd still like to do it to clean up the package, get rid of so many more bugs, etc.14:11
seb128soren: do you have a bug about virt-manager breaking the network configuration?14:11
seb128soren: when using it my network switch from wireless to some wired network but I've no wired network14:11
pittisjoerd: do you have a release plan already? I'd like to share the orig.tar.gz with Debian14:11
emgentjdstrand, i go to my office, if you have some question about my debdiff please use query, Thanks :)14:12
emgentbye pople14:12
sorenseb128: There's some funny business going on. It's a bit involved.14:12
sjoerdpitti: Yeah, getting the sysfs stuff to work required like 16 patches from git.. Which was insane14:12
sorenkees changed hal to also report virtual interfaces, such as vlan's and bridges.14:12
pittisjoerd: right, and even the current stack of patches is insane enough :)14:12
sjoerdpitti: Several people tested it (i don't have an acpi laptop), everyone reported it was ok, so i'm planning to do an upload later today14:12
sorennetwork-manager knows nothing about these, so assumes they're wired interfaces, and IIRC it prefers those over wireless ones.14:12
pittisjoerd: oh, awesome! my primary concern is the shared orig.tar.gz, since I have to merge anyway14:13
sjoerdhttp://beast.luon.net/~sjoerd/hal/ has the orig.tar.gz14:13
pittisjoerd: oh, thanks14:13
pittiseb128: I'll do that merge and put it in a PPA14:14
* pitti hugs sjoerd14:14
sjoerdnp :)14:14
pittisjoerd: boggle, only four patches left? :)14:14
cody-somervilleWow. Who ever made changes to batteries in hardy, thanks. You've expanded my battery life to to 52 hours and 15 minutes :P14:14
* seb128 hugs pitti14:14
sjoerdpitti: Yeah, most of the stack came from git anyways and i pushed most of what we had into upstream git too :)14:15
sjoerdI should probably push 55_nonpolkit-mount-policy.patch too, the others are a bit debian specific14:15
pittisjoerd: ^ I already did that ages ago14:15
* seb128 curses avahi14:15
pittibut a little later they reverted it for some reason14:15
sjoerdpitti: hrm, oh14:15
sjoerdpitti: i thought we did indeed, but didn't see it in git14:16
sjoerdGuess, finding out the reason for the revertion needs to be added to my todo list then :)14:16
socsome time ago there was a blueprint about integarting/upgrading to grub2 ...14:20
soci think it was for feisty ... did anything happen in the mean time or was it just a lack of time/problems/etc?14:21
\shScottK: when I knew which wine version will work in the future before hardy release, I would be  happy14:21
\shgrmpf..wrong channel14:21
socthere is a grub2 package in the repos ... bt i don't know how integrated it is ...14:22
socwill it be recognized on kernel updates when writing the automagic kernel lists?14:22
socmaybe i better ask in +114:23
Mithrandirsoc: it never received much attention14:26
pittisjoerd: it was committed in http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=hal.git;a=commit;h=9d607e21cac65dddaf0c8cb2443865d9ae509393 and reverted in http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=hal.git;a=commit;h=42174283c756d377d2f1f2f346d32aec502d4769 without an explanation14:26
\shScottK: 4.2.3.x doesn't work (rebuild it today)14:27
\shScottK: and 3.4 I'll try now14:27
superm1soc, i added a few things to it to make upgrades a little nicer, but it needs more attention yet14:33
socsuperm1: a thanks14:34
socso just installing grub-pc isn't enough?14:34
superm1soc, well you'll get them if you do14:34
socor should it be in most cases enough?14:34
superm1it still chainloads from grub  to grub214:35
socah ok14:35
superm1you'll have to manuall grub-install to a hard drive if you want to go right into grub214:35
socsuperm1: how long will it take to abandon grub1?14:35
socah ok14:35
superm1soc, there was a discussion about it at the last UDS14:35
socsorry, i wasn't there,,,,14:35
superm1soc, and it was deferred14:35
superm1soc, I forget the exact basis for the decision14:36
socah ok...14:36
superm1soc, but it will do your basic stuff for you, add new kernels, use a UUID, turn on a bootsplash etc14:37
robertjwhat is the package name for Bryce Harrington's xrandr gui?14:38
socah ok14:38
socso install grub-pc and run grub-install manualy?14:38
seb128robertj: there is no such guy?14:38
seb128robertj: we decided to modify the existant capplet using the redhat changes14:38
superm1soc, yeah go ahead and give it a go.  at very least you can file some bugs about what doesn't work for you14:39
socok ...14:39
robertjseb128: is that in hardy or only in launchpad?14:39
soci only have gutsy around atm ...14:40
seb128robertj: what is your issue or question exactly?14:40
socany fixes between 1.95 and 196 which are critical?14:40
superm1soc, you won't see any of the customizations in gutsy.  when you upgrade to hardy you will.14:40
socah ok14:41
socthen i wait until my notebook comes homes again :-)14:41
robertjseb128: so is https://code.launchpad.net/~bryceharrington/gnome-control-center/ssp-xrandr the most current branch?14:42
seb128robertj: depending what you want, is that to write news, take screenshot, do you have a bug?14:42
robertjjust poke at it14:42
loolseb128, pitti: pitti probably knows about this all already, but sjoerd prepared a new git snapshot of hal in pkg-utopia which would fix the double batteries problem; I'm happy to report back when it reaches me; ATM I don't have double batteries, but I've had GPM eat 125% CPU upon resume14:42
seb128robertj: likely then14:42
pittilool: yes, I know14:43
pittilool: I already uploaded a new hal with those particular fixes14:43
seb128lool: read the log between pitti and sjoerd14:43
seb128lool: that was being discussed not too long ago ;-)14:43
pittilool: and I'm currently merging hal to that git checkout, and I'll put it in a PPA14:43
seb128lool: ah, dunno about the 125% cpu issue, seems to be a fun one ;-)14:43
seb128pitti, lool, sjoerd: any idea about this avahi one?14:44
seb128$ ps ax | grep avahi14:44
seb128 5527 ?        Ss     0:00 avahi-daemon: registering [seb128-desktop.local]14:44
seb128it doesn't move from registering14:44
loolseb128: Right, unfortunately I can't read the whole of the ubuntu-* chans; I could have checked before bringing this up though14:44
seb128avahi-browse works correctly and rhythmbox too14:44
pittilool: don't worry, thanks for bringing this up; better twice than never :)14:45
seb128but that breaks gvfs dns-sd14:45
seb128lool: that's alright, that was just in case you were interested in the discussion it was on the chan not too long ago, thanks for pointing it there ;-)14:45
* lool is interested in the fix! :)14:46
sjoerdseb128: as i said in #nautilus, that's a new one for me14:46
pittiseb128: hm, seems that nautilus+gvfs doesn't provide any option any more to change mount options, or even disable automounting14:47
seb128sjoerd: any hint on how to debug it or what information would be useful?14:47
seb128pitti: no, gnome-mount likely needs to be ported to gvfs14:48
sjoerdseb128: a tcpdump capturing multicast traffic might help14:48
sjoerdseb128: and information about your network (very busy  or...)14:48
pittiseb128: oh, disabling automount works, ok14:48
seb128sjoerd: what is weird is that restarting avahi make it work correctly14:48
seb128no, network is not busy14:48
seb128I've almost no local activity14:48
seb128and a dsl line where I'm mostly doing IRC at the moment14:48
pittiseb128: argh, no, it doesn't; it just disables opening a nautilus for the new media14:48
seb128pitti: is that an issue?14:49
pittiseb128: well, I wanted to set different mount options14:49
seb128sjoerd: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/11698414:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 116984 in avahi "Applications can't connect to avahi-daemon until avahi is restarted once." [Undecided,New]14:51
seb128sjoerd: maybe something similar to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/111834?14:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 111834 in avahi "Race between avahi-daemon startup by dbus and .local check in if-up.d" [Undecided,New]14:52
pittiah, seems we can drop the vfat 'usefree' option with current kernel14:52
seb128sjoerd: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/avahi/+bug/12431914:53
sjoerdseb128: neh, avahi-daemon itself doesn't care about the tags14:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 124319 in avahi "zeroconf browsing broken" [Undecided,New]14:53
seb128there is lot of people having a similar issue14:53
sjoerdHrmm, didn't get any reports in debian about it14:54
seb128sjoerd: doesn't mean it doesn't happen, debian get a lot less desktop bugs actually14:54
sjoerdThat's true14:54
sjoerdWhich version of avahi does ubuntu have currently?14:55
seb128current debian one14:56
seb128with a change to start cups before14:56
seb128rather the other way around14:56
seb128    - debian/rules, debian/avahi-daemon.postinst: Sta    - debian/rules, debian/avahi-daemon.postinst: Start the avahi-daemon before14:56
seb128      CUPS so that CUPS-shared printers appears in mDNS. (LP #173470)14:56
seb128rt the avahi-daemon before14:56
seb128      CUPS so that CUPS-shared printers appears in mDNS. (LP #173470)14:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 173470 in avahi "[Gutsy SRU Request] Bad interaction with avahi" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17347014:56
seb128ups, xorg bug14:56
sjoerdseb128: Are any of those bugs forwarded to avahi.org ?14:59
seb128sjoerd: doesn't seems to be, looking at the bug list avahi has no maintainer in ubuntu15:00
seb128sjoerd: and I just noticed the issue today while looking at gvfs15:00
seb128I can do it15:00
sjoerdplease do15:00
seb128I get no "Server startup complete" in syslog15:00
sjoerdLennart is really the best person to look at that kinda stuff15:00
seb128I do that when restarting avahi after boot though15:00
seb128is he on IRC?15:00
sjoerdHe doesn't have network at his new place15:01
sjoerdSo not so much15:01
seb128but he reads bug at work? ;-)15:01
sjoerdYeah from time to time15:01
sjoerdAnd tends to reply on mails on wednesday :)15:01
sjoerdSo probably filing a bug and maybe dropping a mail might work :)15:02
pittimjg59: in hal's 88_change_pm_quirk_policy.patch you changed = "true" to != "false"; that isn't upstream, what is the difference?15:04
\shpitti: what does the valgrind output of --3348-- Reading debug info from /lib32/libpthread-2.7.so...15:06
\sh--3348-- ... CRC mismatch (computed 74fb5800 wanted fdd5fd94)15:06
\shtell us?15:06
pitti\sh: hm, no idea TBH15:18
ograd-i doesnt like me on todays alternate15:24
cjwatsoncorrect, this morning's upload fixed that15:25
ograah, thanks15:25
pittisjoerd: do you have an idea why Debian's hal still disables MacBook/Pro support?15:38
sjoerdBecause i don't trust it in opening /dev/mem and poking bits directly15:39
sjoerdSomebody really should write a kernel driver for that15:40
=== dashua` is now known as dashua
pittisjoerd: ah, right, I remember now; thanks15:52
sjoerdI'm honestly surprised that people prefer hacks like these instead of going to the little bit of extra effort to write a proper driver15:55
=== asac__ is now known as asac
cjwatsonsjoerd: people get scared of the kernel :-/16:10
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pittiseb128: I still get the brightness popup corruption with hal git head; that looks like a real g-p-m/compiz bug, not a hal one?16:34
seb128pitti: does the dbus-send command I gave you the other day create a dbus error on the hald side?16:35
pittididn't check yet16:35
pittiseb128: still busy with sth else, can check later16:35
pittior, let me just upload to my PPA, for more testing16:35
seb128pitti: the corrupted popup is due to the GetBrightness not working16:35
loolHi folks, I pushed a couple of ubuntu.hardy seeds changes; anyone need something before the next meta upload?16:55
jdstrandsoren: have you had a change to look at vmware2libvirt?  if not, I was thinking I'd branch libvirt and have you pull from there17:14
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
sorenjdstrand: Don't bother. It's slowly bubbling towards the top of my todo fifo.17:20
jdstrandsoren: ok cool17:20
jdstrandsoren: once I have some time, I'll check on the vmmouse stuff we talked about17:21
jdstrandthen update the wiki17:21
sorenjdstrand: Cool!17:21
* jdstrand thinks it may be worthwhile to put the xorg.conf stuff in the manpage too-- but again, once I have some time :)17:22
* jdstrand seems to often mess up his pronouns when referring to himself in the 3rd person...17:22
loolCool, you can now simply use Bug:1234 in the wiki, and it links to a LP bug17:24
=== asac_ is now known as asac
cjwatsonslangasek: is bug 187883 in a language you can translate?18:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 187883 in debian-installer "Nepotvrzené překlady v debian-installer pro HH" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18788318:13
slangasekcjwatson: <sigh> yes :)18:13
cjwatsonta :-)18:14
cjwatsonI suspect it's "please update translations kthxbye" but wanted a double-check18:14
slangasekyeah, that's what it is18:16
slangasekI'll fire off a quick translation to the bug18:16
slangasekthere you go18:18
=== j_ack_ is now known as j_ack
emgentheya people18:38
=== pochu_ is now known as pochu
mvothekorn: heyho, is there a way to ask bughelper to show progress information?19:05
thekornmvo, short answer: no, sorry19:05
cbx33hey all19:05
cbx33whos handling GSoC19:06
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
pochumdke: I've just mailed ubuntu-doc for a UI change, but I'm moderated there. could you approve my post? thanks19:26
slangasekTonio_: you have the skim build failure in hand?19:48
=== cody-somerville_ is now known as somerville32
Tonio_slangasek: yep ;)20:09
slangasekTonio_: ok, cheers20:13
crimsun_pitti: thanks for merging!20:20
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
TheMusolool: Did you know that mousetweaks was already in the desktop seed?20:23
loolTheMuso: I did not20:35
loolTheMuso: pushed a reverted mousetweaks addition20:39
TheMusolool: Ok no problem, thanks.20:45
seb128hey TheMuso20:50
seb128TheMuso: could you move onboard not in a submenu?20:51
crimsun_seb128: Is http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12371481/gnome-power-manager_2.21.92-0ubuntu2.debdiff ok to apply & upload?21:03
seb128crimsun_: sure, thanks21:04
crimsun_seb128: done, thank you!21:06
TheMusoseb128: I'll have a look at it today, probably do the same thing as what we do with orca, i.e don't show it.21:23
theunixgeekAnyone have any experience with gtkmm? How does it compare to regular gtk+?21:32
=== cody-somerville_ is now known as somerville32
cjwatsontheunixgeek: I found it very difficult to work with (even allowing for the language), largely because it's so different from the C interface; when I later learnt the Python GTK bindings, I was struck by how much better they were as a translation of the C interface21:35
theunixgeekcjwatson: with python!? :O21:36
cjwatsontheunixgeek: I don't understand?21:37
theunixgeekcjwatson: isn't GTK, like, originally made for C?21:38
cjwatsonerr, I think you must have misunderstood me21:38
theunixgeekcjwatson: I probably did.21:38
cjwatsonof course GTK is natively C21:38
cjwatsonmy point is that, even allowing for the language differences, the Python GTK interface is a very faithful rendering of the C interface into Python, with mostly just a few regular changes (in fact, I've used the PyGTK documentation as a reference when working on C GTK programs, just because I had it handy and there wasn't a whole lot of difference)21:40
cjwatsonwhereas the C++ bindings are completely different21:40
cjwatsonand the changes, from what I remember, are quite irregular and hard to remember21:40
seb128jamiemcc_: are the tracker status count supposed to indicate how many things it has indexed and how much it has to do?21:52
seb128jamiemcc_: because the progressbar were always to 100% in the previous version and the new version counts are the same, that's not really useful21:53
jamiemcc_seb128: for files it shows folerds indexed/ folders total22:01
jamiemcc_for emails we cant reeally get a progress easily22:02
seb128jamiemcc_: the folder count is always to 100% too22:02
seb128jamiemcc_: maybe it would be better to not indicate a count if that's always 100% anyway?22:03
jamiemcc_seb128: well if your files are indexed it will show equal numbers for total and indexed22:03
jamiemcc_seb128: they have most meaning when you index from scratch22:04
seb128well, it's strange because it's indexing22:04
seb128but count is 100%22:05
jamiemcc_seb128: if you reindex you will see the progress. If you are adding new files we dont know in advance how many folders there are22:05
=== toresbe_ is now known as toresbe
mathiazslangasek: what do you think about the patch for bug 180493 ?22:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 180493 in samba "nmbd shuts down when network disconnected" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18049322:43
seb128_sjoerd: around you working on hal too? ;-)22:43
sjoerdseb128_: from time to time22:44
seb128_sjoerd: any idea on https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14797?22:44
ubotuFreedesktop bug 14797 in hald "GetBrightness broken on dell latitude since sysfs battery change" [Normal,New]22:44
sjoerdseb128_: brightness level and batteries are totally unrelated22:45
sjoerdProbably something else changed in his setup with the new kernel22:45
seb128_sjoerd: the setup is mine and no, build the package has the bug, reverting the git change mentionned, make and running hald works correctly, applying the patch, make it's broken again22:46
seb128_that is not clear22:46
seb128_but with and without the patch in the same build directory make it work or not22:47
sjoerdwhich specific patch is this ?22:47
seb128_the one to remove the duplicate battery22:47
seb128_that was the first one commited I think22:47
sjoerdall others were fixes for reading out the sysfs interface22:48
seb128_I guess it has a side effect somewhere22:48
seb128_I tried to diff hald logs with and without the patch22:48
seb128_but there is nothing obvious22:48
seb128_and logs are not really short22:48
seb128_pitti get the same issue on his dell laptop22:49
seb128_the dbus-send comment timeout22:49
sjoerdCould you put your lshal with and without this patch somewhere ?22:49
sjoerdOr just the diff ofcourse :)22:49
seb128_sjoerd: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/lshalchange22:52
seb128_sjoerd: that's diff buggy not-buggy22:53
seb128_buggy being the patched version22:53
sjoerdSo only the procfs batteries disappeared, like they should22:54
sjoerdthat's really strange22:57
sjoerdhrm.. the assertions fails because of the &err that is passed22:58
seb128_ooh? ;-)22:58
sjoerdYeah, found it23:00
sjoerdthe dell addon backend tries to check /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/acpi_AC23:00
sjoerdand uses the same error var for it, without actually checking if it was an error23:00
slangasekmathiaz: 180493> wouldn't it be better to fix this with an if-up.d hook?23:00
sjoerdwith sysfs the UDI name has changed23:00
seb128_sjoerd: ah, good catch23:00
seb128_sjoerd: you rock ;-)23:01
sjoerdthanks :)23:01
sjoerdStrange hardware that needs different backlight values to be read when on AC vs. when on battery23:02
seb128_sjoerd: will you comment on the bug upstream bug to say that or should I do it?23:02
sjoerdI was just on my way to bed, so if you could :)23:03
sjoerdIt's really bad for the addon to rely on other devices udi's23:03
sjoerdAs there are no guarantees about the naming whatsoever23:03
seb128_thanks for figuring what is wrong23:03
seb128_will comment on the bug23:03
keescookcrimsun_: any chance you've had time to document how to add hardening-wrapper to pbuilder?  I just added the sbuild details to Security/HardeningWrapper23:04
sjoerdseb128_: Thanks for preemptively finding a bug that will hit us in Debian too :p23:04
seb128_sjoerd: ;-)23:04
slangasekmathiaz: that's how I had always intended to fix that bug, at least, barring an upstream fix23:04
mathiazslangasek: right. How would this work with multiple interfaces ?23:06
slangasekmathiaz: idempotently; if nmbd is already running it does nothing, otherwise it starts it, and no corresponding if-down.d script23:06
sorennetwork-manager runs if-up.d scripts?23:07
slangasekhrm, good question23:07
slangasekgood, 'cause otherwise things would be quite a mess :)23:07
mathiazslangasek: you wouldn't put a ifdown.d script ?23:07
slangasekmathiaz: nope23:07
sorenOh. I didn't know.23:07
Keybuksoren: that's what NetworkManagerDispatcher does23:07
sorenmathiaz: It shuts down itself when the last interface disappears.23:07
mathiazsoren: ya23:08
sorenKeybuk: Ah. I didnt' realise.23:08
mathiazslangasek: ok - that an ifup.d script makes sense.23:09
jmghi all23:13
jmgcan someone riddle me why pulseaudio is useful? isnt everything it does handled by alsa now?23:13
RAOFjmg: Not transparent streaming to my server plugged into my stereo?23:14
RAOFjmg: Not sample-caching, for sound-servner usage.23:15
awalton__jmg, alsa's just a raw wire into the sound system. pulse-audio is like a giant mixer panel.23:15
jmgdidnt people learn from esd/arts that sound servers are not wanted?23:16
awalton__actually, they learned people don't want bad sound servers.23:16
awalton__pulse audio fixes quite a bit of what's wrong with all of the others, while retaining support for others.23:16
jmggive it another year23:16
jmgand people will be frazzing over it the same way they did arts23:17
mathiazzul: could update your samba merge taking into account my comment on bug 180493 ?23:17
ubotuLaunchpad bug 180493 in samba "nmbd shuts down when network disconnected" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18049323:17
jmgso does it block the sound device?23:18
=== jamesh_ is now known as jamesh
jmgie can i play quake 4 at the same time as listen or whatever?23:18
TheMusojmg: What ssound output does quake use?23:19
RAOFAs long as quake 4 doesn't use alsa in a broken way, yes.23:20
jmgq4 uses openal23:20
RAOFIt probably works then, with the pulseaudio alsa plugin.23:21
jmgthe whole idea of sound servers just makes my skin crawl23:21
jmgits like im back in 199823:22
* RAOF doesn't see why.23:22
* awalton__ doesn't either.23:22
TheMusoopenal seems to use OSS from looking at what it depends on.23:22
jmgdevelopers never do.23:22
jmgwhy do something in software that can be done in hardware23:23
awalton__because nobody does sound in hardware anymore.23:23
jmgsure, because the emu10k1 isnt widespread at all23:23
RAOFAnd the hardware doesn't do the same thing anyway.23:24
awalton__it's simple. if you don't like it, turn it off.23:24
TheMusoHrm ok, looks like openal must dynamically open the lib it needs, as for some weird reason it build-depends on libesd, libasound2, and libarts.23:25
awalton__and it doesn't depend on alsalib? that is weird.23:25
TheMusoIt only depends on libc6.23:26
TheMusoBut yes it does build-depend on the above.23:26
awalton__must do all kinds of fun run-time checks.23:27
TheMusoWow. You can even build it to either link at build time, or dynamically link at runtime.23:28
* TheMuso thinks about digging upstream to see if there is a pulseaudio plugin.23:28
jmgwont matter23:28
awalton__if it does ESD it does pulse at least.23:28
TheMusoYeah, but native pulse is better.23:29
jmgdont most apps that use openal ship with their own openal library23:29
jmgut, q4, et etc23:29
TheMusoThe only real problem I see with esd, is that if sample caching is used, there is only a maximum sample size of 2048000, as opposed to the original esound's dynamically allocated sample size.23:29
TheMusojmg: I don't know.23:29
jmg23:24 < awalton__> it's simple. if you don't like it, turn it off.23:30
jmg^ i really am back in 199823:30
jmgok, well ill give it a  go ( just got hardy), and report back23:31
awalton__yes, bash it to pieces before you even try it.23:31
awalton__that makes all kinds of sense.23:31
jmgi was attacking the soundserver idea, not the implementation23:32
jmgit's caused more problems than its fixed in the past23:32
jmgi remain open to the possiblity that pulse might have learned something from arts/esd/jack/coreaudio23:34
TheMusoHrm, I think I just might make openal default to esd, and fall back to alsa.23:36

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