band4lifeI have returned after my 9 or 10 day expulsion.  May I please be allowed to join #ubuntu?02:08
Seeker`band4life: Who asked you to come back after 9 or 10 days?02:08
band4lifeI believe it was Nalioth.  not 100 percent though02:08
naliothSeeker`: i did.02:08
naliothband4life: you'll need to speak to LjL 02:08
band4lifeis ljl here?02:09
Seeker`I believe that LjL has gone to bed02:09
band4lifedoes ljl frequent here in the sunshine hours?02:09
band4lifetomorrow perhaps?02:09
Seeker`band4life: depends on what you count as the sunshine hours02:10
naliothband4life: i'm sorry to disillusion you, but the world doesn't revolve around you02:10
band4lifenalioth to i seem to be under some sort of spell?02:10
band4lifedo you take me for some ignorant fool?02:10
band4lifenalioth farewell my fair weather friend02:11
Seeker`I get the feeling that he wont be unbanned any time soon02:13
band4lifeam I booted from all of the rooms?  or just #ubuntu?06:16
band4lifecuz i kinda get the feeling that im gettin shrugged06:16
elkbuntunalioth, that's an interesting ident that band4life chap has09:33
Seeker`its an interesting spelling of banned too09:34
elkbuntuSeeker`, i think that's him trying to be clever09:35
elkbuntuas is his ident09:35
Seeker`"look at me, i'm so clever I cant spell banned"?09:35
Seeker`he probably chnaged it to try and get round the ban, and left it like that when it didn't work09:35
elkbuntuSeeker`, no probably about it09:37
Seeker`I get the impression that he probably wont be unbanned for a while09:38
ubotuArthurArchnix called the ops in #ubuntu (Antkin | In the last two hours all he has done is greet people who enter the room. Then, he tells them to google it or go post on the forums. At least two people have left immediately after being told this before someone else could step in.)09:43
ubotuhwilde called the ops in #ubuntu ()09:45
Seeker`IRC really makes you question whether humans are really that clever10:01
ubotuLynoure called the ops in #kubuntu ()10:08
elkbuntuAmaranth, are you monitoring antkin?10:09
Amaranthcrap, i got sidetracked by an email10:10
elkbuntujust removed him for pastin10:11
AmaranthYeah, if I would have seen I would have just booted him when he started saying hi to everyone that joined again10:11
elkbuntui'm quite sporadically laggy atm10:12
elkbuntuAmaranth, he's back10:14
Amaranthalright, i'll see if he does anything for a couple minutes here10:14
AmaranthAnd that's the end of that10:17
elkbuntutotal troll, imho10:17
Amarantheither that or clueless guy10:22
Amarantheither way we don't want them10:22
Tm_Tspammer on the loose: daba [n=daba@83-131-31-115.adsl.net.t-com.hr]10:32
elkbuntuTm_T, dalnet?10:33
Tm_Telkbuntu: dalnet? dunno about dalnet but this guy hit #kubuntu and #kde-devel with spamflood already, dunno others10:33
elkbuntuah ok. there's been a serial PM spammer on the loose on an off for the past few months spamming various linux channels on dalnet10:34
Tm_T1231.51 < daba> http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/10:34
jussi01GazzaK: wheres Gary?11:30
jussi01Oakbox: How can we help you?11:31
Tm_Tjussi01: ^^11:32
jussi01Tm_T: gahh, forward that guy here if you want, complete pita, has no Idea how to act on irc. :(11:33
Oakboxah sorry im actuly after someone who can help my with QT4 colours as my have been mucked up :(11:36
Myrtti/me hugs elkbuntu11:36
Tm_TOakbox: sorry, this channel is not for support, #kubuntu-kde4 might be a good start, or #kde :))11:37
OakboxTm_T: ta :)11:38
Tm_TOakbox: and good luck son :)11:38
=== GazzaK is now known as Gary
Garyjussi01: hehe11:43
jussi01PriceChild: ping, when you have a moment. 11:48
jussi01PriceChild: may I pm for a moment?11:49
MyrttiI miss my phone :-<11:52
* jussi01 huggles Myrtti 11:53
Tm_T n=MeriChah@ (freenode)11:53
Tm_T1348.48 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with MeriChahat_11:53
Tm_T1348.48 <MeriChahat_> ##Linux (with ##) on Dalnet needs some good company and good channel operators. type /server irc.dal.net (or /connect11:53
Tm_T                      irc.dal.net) and join ##Linux. More flexible, more firendly Be there for some time..11:53
Tm_Tsorry for flooding11:53
MyrttiTm_T: you hit the jackpot11:53
Tm_TMyrtti: I always do11:54
AntkinI have been banned from Ubuntu Support IRC this morning can you help me?12:05
jussi01Antkin: you will need to wait for the operator who banned you12:06
AntkinOK how long will that take?12:07
jussi01Antkin: Im not sure. do you know who banned you?12:07
AntkinNo, I think I flooded the channel by accident and got banned by the BOT12:09
Antkinjussi01 are you still here?12:16
Tm_THobbsee: jussi01: he is "green", and bit jumpy pushy ;)12:44
Tm_Tgreeting everyone and then pointing them to forums, for example12:45
* jussi01 cries12:48
Tm_Tfunny son12:48
jpatrickLjL: does your client not allow you remove bans all at once?14:18
LjLjpatrick: only if i type them in manually14:18
LjLnot by multiple selection14:18
jpatrickLjL: I usually do: /mode -b foo@bar -b whatever..14:18
* Mez slaps LjL 14:18
LjLjpatrick: which would be /mode -bbbb a b c d, strictly speaking, although your version works.14:19
LjLbut i'm lazy and prefer to go to the bans list, filter by "ljl", and click.14:19
no0ticLjL, /unban ## ## ## (where ##s stand for ban number)14:19
MezLjL, your ctcp version is annoying, what client do you use?14:19
LjLno0tic: sorted by date, hopefully?14:19
no0ticLjL, good morning though14:20
LjLMez: my VERSION reply is that way because i've too often been crippled by CTCP attacks... i'm on konversation14:20
LjLno0tic: thanks, but strangely i woke up hours ago today14:20
MezLjL, no I know, which is why I just dont respond to one ;)14:20
no0ticLjL, uhm, sorted by "I don't know what"14:21
LjLMez: unfortunately konversation is too stubborn to allow that14:21
LjLno0tic: sounds useful14:21
MezLjL, I wouldnt know - for some reason, even as a KDE afficianado, I cannot stand it's messaging programs14:21
LjLMez: still, an empty reply is less likely to result in an excess flood. i should solve this in a better way anyhow14:21
LjLwhich is why i should write a decent proxy14:21
LjLwhich is why i should use python as i mentioned in -ot14:21
LjLwell no, the reason i should use python is because i want to interface it to my mobile, and there's only python on it14:22
Seeker`LjL: Did you seew hat Band4life was looking for you?14:22
MezLjL, what about ctrl_proxy ? It's actually a rather good one14:22
LjLSeeker`: i saw i got a PM from him14:22
no0ticLjL, checked out, they are sorted by date & type14:23
Seeker`LjL: ah, cool14:23
LjLMez: i think i've tried it but been put off by something. don't remember what exactly, since i've tried a few... i think i had "bip" in the queue to (re)try next. what i'm looking for is *good* logging (timestamps with seconds, for a start, and no "X has quit" being broadcast in *all* channels), auto-/away when i detach and /away off when i reattach, auto "i'm away" message when someone PMs me, and no surprises. but i also would like to write my own 14:24
LjLbecause of things like, well, handling CTCP floods, and interfacing with mobile14:24
LjLno0tic: type?14:24
no0ticLjL, yes, bans first, quiets last, each group sorted by date (newer first)14:25
LjLno0tic: strange that it knows about quiets14:25
MezLjL, If you're interested in writing your own, I might join you, dependant on what language you wanna write it in - all the proxies I've tried have had some sort of failing, though ctrlproxy is working well for me atm14:25
LjLno0tic: still can you ask it to only show your own bans? :)14:25
no0ticLjL, yes, I think so 14:26
LjLMez, i'd be very tempted to write it in PHP, since that's what i'm currently most used to, bots etc. but to work on the mobile, i need python, so i "should" write everything in python for a start, i guess14:26
MezLjL, yeah, exactly goes for me, cept I dont know python14:27
LjLme neither14:27
LjLsee -ot14:27
LjLPHP does make you write ugly code, but then it also has so many shortcuts appealing to someone who was used to C but now wants to write string handling code...14:28
AntkinSeeker Can you help me to lift a ban?14:31
LjLwhat ban?14:31
Seeker`Antkin: You need to talk to the person that set the ban14:31
Seeker`LjL: Around 10am GMT in #ubuntu i believe14:32
Antkinthis morning on Ubuntu support I don't know who banned me it all happened so fast14:32
no0ticSeeker`, perfect timing :)14:32
AntkinI was accussed of flooding I think the BOT banned me but not sure14:33
Seeker`The ban was set by Tm_t14:33
AntkinTm_t? I have chatting to him/her today14:34
jpatrickAntkin: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5235/14:34
Antkin10:49:02#ubuntu: < ArthurArchnix> !ops | Antkin | In the last two hours all he has done is greet people who enter the room.14:36
Antkin                                  Then, he tells them to google it or go post on the forums. At least two people have left14:36
Antkin                                  immediately after being told this before someone else could step in14:36
AntkinSo what is my next step?14:36
jpatrickAntkin: wait for tmt14:37
AntkinHow long? Why did Tm_t not mention we could sort this out?14:38
crediblebecause he's not the one that banned you14:39
credible05:16 -!- mode/#ubuntu [+b *!*@77-100-133-163.cable.ubr06.brad.blueyonder.co.uk] by Amaranth14:39
Seeker`Sorry, made a mistake14:39
AntkinSo who did ban me?14:40
Seeker`Tm_t removed, the elk.buntu removed, then amaranth banned  / removed14:40
Jucatooops.. forgot I wasn't here :)14:41
AntkinIs amaranth here?14:43
AmaranthAmaranth is currently working14:43
AntkinDid amaranth ban me?14:44
Seeker`Antkin: yes14:44
AntkinSo i'm waiting for amaranth now?14:45
AmaranthNo, someone else handle it14:45
AntkinWho will take up the case?14:46
LjLAntkin, how come you were pointed to your behavior several times but you kept on14:48
AntkinI am not aware that I kept on, I did not mean to offend anyone14:50
Seeker`Antkin: I believe you were asked several times to stop saying "hi" to everyone that joined, as it makes too much traffic14:50
AntkinI was asked to stop greeting people so I stopped that what is the issue?14:51
LjLAntkin, let me clear up a couple of things14:51
AntkinPlease do14:51
LjLAntkin: #ubuntu is not a place where you should offer help to anyone who comes in, without them even asking. if we all did that, the channel would be flooded. you also don't need to greet people who come in - they'll quickly realize that they're simply expected to ask their question. also, while we've certainly nothing against the ubuntu forums (or for that matter google), just telling everyone to post to the forums is no use. if you don't know the answer 14:55
LjLto a question, don't answer. there are other people who can possibly answer the question. there is no harm in pointing someone to the forums *after* you have discussed with them and there doesn't seem to be anyone available who knows their answer, but just use common sense: again, blanket redirects are no good. also, if you're not too familiar with IRC commands, please follow your own advice and google ;) no need to paste channel topics into a channel, 14:55
LjLfor instance.14:55
LjLi also advise that you check each of these factoids out14:56
LjL!etiquette > Antkin    (Antkin, see the private message from Ubotu)14:56
AntkinOK so thats a few points to take on board anything else?14:58
LjLAntkin, not anything specific, but generally speaking, keep in mind #ubuntu is a very high-traffic channel, and anything that decreases the signal to noise ratio is mostly not welcome.15:00
AntkinAre we more concerned about what decreases the signal to noise ratio is mostly not welcome. Or are we concerned about helping visitors out withe their problems. Do not try and confuse the issue with technical garbage15:03
LjLAntkin, greeting everyone and telling them to use the forums and stuff (each suggestion on a separate line, why not!) doesn't help anyone.15:04
LjLAntkin: support options are in the channel topic. most people will look at the channel topic when they join. you don't need to repeat the information to each of them unless they ask.15:05
AntkinI disagree most people ignore the channel topic, they just want help surely the is the primary objective of the channel 15:06
Myrttierm, okay15:07
Pici*Most* people who have come to #ubuntu are aware that there are other support options out there, but they prefer the 'live' support that IRC gives them, rather than posting on a forum and waiting.15:07
AntkinYes I'm still here15:08
LjL[10:31] <Antkin> Ububegin Have you posted your question on Ubuntu forums? [10:31] <lastman> Is there any chance to change the charset from utf-8 to iso-8859-15 ? [10:31] <Antkin> lastman Have you posted your question on Ubuntu forums? [10:32] <hwilde> dude enough with the forums [10:32] <lastman> not yet [10:32] <lastman> Antkin: but this is a simple question [10:33] <Antkin> lastman Please post there first then come back to IRC15:08
LjLthis is just a snipped of your continued behavior, and the reactions to it15:09
LjLif you don't see why that's not a smart way to give help, then you probably want to help in some other place15:09
Seeker`Antkin: As you stated, help is the primary objective of the channel, not redirecting them to other places when there are >1000 people in the channel that may be able to answer them15:10
Antkini have been on that channel for hours for the last three days, yes I know it has 1200-1400 visitors. Yet very few take part in the channel when I'm on at least a newbie gets a greating and an offer for help. I'm so fast at posting messages sometime people think I am a bot 15:13
MezAntkin, it's not an offer for help though, it's a "go away and ask somewhere else"15:14
Seeker`But with potentially hundreds of people joining an hour, sending each of them "hi" and "look at the forums" results in hundreds of lines of unneccesary traffic, neither of which actually help the person15:15
Seeker`Antkin: Why do you redirect them to the forums?15:15
AntkinPeople don't have to leave the channel to post on the forums the just open a browser all the time the channel is available to them do you understand the issue you are not losing customers15:15
AntkinI ask them if they have posted on the forum some have some have not15:16
MyrttiI *hate* the forums15:16
Seeker`But people assume that as you are telling them to ask on the forums that they wont getany help on IRC15:16
PiciAntkin: Thats because they want to get support *here* not on the forums.15:17
LjLAntkin, so what? there is no requirement that they should post to the forums before asking on IRC, contrary to what you have been telling them.15:17
Seeker`Myrtti: +115:17
MyrttiI'm the moderator on too many forums to like them a bit15:17
jpatrickMyrtti: +1 (even if I am Kubuntu forums admin)15:17
AntkinForums are good for the newbie they are a wealth of information, there are many guides there I have writen one myself15:17
MyrttiAntkin: the correct way of using the information there is the following:15:18
LjLAntkin, again, so what? IRC is "good for a newbie" too. do you see the forums advertizing IRC all the time in a blanket way?15:18
Seeker`Antkin: But what about th epeople that dont like the forums - with IRC you get an instant response, with the forums you may be waiting for hours15:18
Myrtti1) try to help them on irc, if you can't help them EVEN by searching stuff from the forums *THEN* guide them there15:18
Seeker`Antkin: What would happen if the first response to every forum post was "Go and ask on IRC first"15:19
Myrtti2) if they've already posted there, they certainly will give you the url to the thread15:19
Seeker`Antkin: People would just be bounced back and forth between the two15:19
jdongwhy is there this huge forum vs IRC backlog?15:19
jdongI'm guessing I should look away for personal health15:19
Myrttijdong: I'm considering the same15:19
Seeker`jdong: huh?15:19
AntkinUbuntu needs both forums and IRC they both help newbies15:19
jussi01jdong: go, while you can15:20
MyrttiAntkin: yes?15:20
Mezjdong, don't worry ;)15:20
* Mez hugs jdong15:20
LjLjdong, this isn't a forums vs IRC argument, although i suspect "someone" really wants to steer it that way, at the end of the day.15:20
MezMyrtti, I hate the forums too - but I have a valid and rational reason15:20
* Jucato hugs jdong too15:20
jdongMez: because I'm there.15:20
* PriceChild looks in15:21
Seeker`Antkin: By redirecting people to the forums first, you are "depriving" them of the help from IRC. As was pointed out in the original ops call, at least 2 people quit IRC to go and ask on the forums on your advice15:21
Mezjdong, nope... cause I see forums for 40 hours a week...15:21
LjLAntkin, i've reviewed most of what you said in #ubuntu, and basically there is NO Ubuntu-specific help you've given. all you've done is "hi" "do you have a question?" "have you asked on the forums?" "ask on the forums first". that is simply ridiculous, and this debate is getting pointless.15:21
Mezall forums, all the time15:21
Seeker`lo PriceChild 15:21
LjLplease abide by our view of how the channel should be used, if you want to use the channel.15:21
jdongfor the record, after reading the backlog I think LjL just summed it up perfectly15:22
jdongand NOW... I'm gone.15:22
AntkinMy case is very simple I do not encourage people to close their IRC program, I encourage them to open a browser and visit the forum one they have done the IRC is still available because they never left it the first place. Like I said your are not losing customer, have any off you ever done customer service or worked in business for yourself. If so you would value your visitor. At the end of...15:25
Antkin...the day it a service. 15:26
jdongAntkin: I don't think it needs to be incessantly said to visit the forums or any other support medium. One should assume users are smart enough to seek out alternative forms of help15:26
MezAntkin, I have worked in a business myself, I have done customer service.15:26
LjLAntkin, i disagree, and have explained why. i think it's time to drop this discussion.15:26
jdongall of which are clearly documented in the Firefox start page and System menu15:26
MezAntkin, think of it this way, IRC is like a phone call... If a customer phones you, would you say - "have you sent us a letter"?15:27
AntkinGood then I hope you know exactly what I am talking about15:27
MezAntkin, by joining the channel, they've expressed their wish to communicate and ask for help through IRC as a medium15:27
jdongMez: isn't it "Have you opened an RT ticket?" :)15:27
no0ticjdong, :)15:28
Mezjdong, or that15:28
Myrttiif I call a customer service, they can all go to hell if they ask me have I sent a letter15:28
PiciIn addition just because *you* prefer to ask on the forums before IRC doesnt mean that *everyone* feels the same way.15:28
AntkinDrop the discussion that is the easy way out the is here is are you going to lift the ban and give your visitor the service they expect?15:28
jdongthe infamous CS bounce-around-transfer... everyone hates that treatment.15:28
LjLAntkin, the ban has been lifted a dozen of minutes ago.15:28
MyrttiAntkin: they are getting the service they expect as we speak15:29
LjLAntkin: however, you have been explained the behavior we expect from you. and no, i haven't changed my mind since. please act accordingly.15:29
Picijdong: I spent all last week getting thrown through tech support phone mazes. Ugh.15:29
PriceChildWe have something in the guidelines which is roughly 'no help is better than bad help' don't we?15:29
LjLPriceChild: i think we quite do.15:29
PiciPriceChild: I think so, and if we don't we have the 'listen to the ops' clause.15:29
MyrttiCanonical offers commercial support, and if people don't want to use it, they can freely choose to use IRC, forums, mailing lists, whatever15:30
PiciUsenet :p15:30
PriceChild!guidelines > Antkin 15:30
PriceChildAntkin: read the "When helping: be helpful" bit15:30
Myrttiif their problems aren't answered in IRC, then it is mostly in their own responsibility to find another way of getting help, not our duty to jam it down their throats15:30
AntkinAt long last somebody has taken the time to say the ban was lifted. Yet do you understand I the customer was not informed by you Ubuntu. I only got the informatiomation by pressing you, even then it was 12 minutes late.15:31
Myrttiby US UBUNTU?!15:31
ubotuThe people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines15:31
PriceChildAntkin: we are all just users.15:31
PiciAntkin: We're all volunteers15:31
MyrttiI want a RAISE!!!111oneone15:31
Myrttian eeepc with xubuntu would be nice15:31
PriceChild!pony | Myrtti 15:32
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about pony - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi15:32
Myrttinoooo I want a pooonyyy15:32
Seeker`Myrtti: I'm sure they will give you a 1000% payrise15:32
Myrttiyay \o/15:32
PriceChild!search pony15:32
ubotuFound: pony*, pony-#ubuntu-offtopic15:32
PriceChildguess you can only not have a pony in -offtopic15:32
jpatrick!pony-#ubuntu-offtopic | Myrtti 15:32
ubotuMyrtti: No, you can't have a pony. And there is no yesterday.15:32
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about cake - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi15:33
Seeker`!search cake15:33
ubotuFound: cake-#ubuntu-offtopic15:33
ubotuChocolate!  And Peanuts!15:33
ubotuThe cake is a lie.15:33
AntkinI am a user myself and a volunteer IT tutor i teach computers to pensioners and understand their computer fears15:33
MyrttiAntkin: relax15:33
* jpatrick _hates_ the !opsnack fact, as it triggers he's emergency hilights15:33
LjLjpatrick: same here15:33
Picijpatrick: I was just going to say that too15:34
Seeker`jpatrick: why?15:34
PiciSeeker`: *!ops*nack15:34
jpatrickSeeker`: I have ! asdfhasdfj ops, on hilight15:34
no0ticemergency hilight for what, precisely?15:34
PriceChildAntkin: calling us volunteers, I was trying to infer we are not more than you. Its not a competition.15:34
Mezjpatrick, ^!ops($| .*)15:34
Seeker`why not do it as a regex15:34
jpatrickno0tic: in case ubotu fails15:34
Seeker`as !ops<whitespace>15:34
no0tico my15:34
jpatrickSeeker`: grr...15:34
MezSeeker`, one step ahead of you ;)15:34
PiciMez: I dont have that because some people don't know how to use the bot properly or get exicted when theres trouble and mistype15:35
Seeker`jpatrick: why do you grrr at me?15:35
AntkinBe the best you can15:35
Myrtti/me gives everyone a lollipop15:35
Piciooh, lolly!15:35
AntkinIf a job is woth doing it is worth doing well15:35
jpatrickSeeker`: you set off the trigger :)15:35
Seeker`jpatrick: et a better regex then :P15:35
MezPici, *shrugs* I like it that way ;) it works better for me ... regex ftw15:36
LjLAntkin: do you have any further inquiries for us?15:36
MyrttiAntkin: doing it well means that you try to help them on irc first if on irc and if it fails, then direct the customer to another medium15:36
jpatrickMez: that work?15:36
Dave2I do wish xchat's highlighting didn't suck.15:36
Myrtticase closed15:36
Mezjpatrick, did what work ?15:36
Myrtti/me licks her cherry lollipop15:36
jpatrickMez: the ops($| .*) thing15:36
MyrttiIRSSI FTW15:36
Myrttisorry :-<15:36
Mezjpatrick, yup...15:37
Seeker`Myrtti: What are you apologising for?15:37
Mez!caps | Myrtti :P15:37
ubotuMyrtti :P: PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too.15:37
ubotuHey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary,  I could use a bit of your time :)15:37
Amaranth--- [Agenomotozg] (n=Agenomot@ : Agenomotozg15:37
AntkinNo I just want to get back to helping people and leave the Ubuntu dinosoar alone. 15:37
Amaranththat linux dalnet spammer15:37
Myrttioh noes15:37
PriceChildAntkin: have fun15:37
PiciWhat is an Ubuntu Dinosaur?15:38
LjLwhere is my bot15:38
Amaranthfloodbot flipped out15:38
no0ticLjL, he left you15:38
Seeker`Pici: I'm wondering what a dinosoar is15:39
MezPici, I think he might mean konqi ?15:39
LjLAmaranth, not that bot15:39
PiciMez: creepy15:39
Seeker`LjL: ?15:39
LjLbantracker trick.15:40
PiciSeeker`: It registers that there was a kick, and thus grabs some logs for the channel and sticks it on the bantracker.15:41
Seeker`ah, cool15:41
Seeker`you learn something new every day15:41
AmaranthOh, I thought that URL was going to be the konq and konqi getting married at the KDE4 release event15:41
Seeker`sadly, my thing for the day was IRC related again :(15:41
Amaranthsome furries in costumes15:41
PiciAs opposed to furries not in costumes?15:42
PriceChildirc is a scary place15:42
Amaranthwtf, i enabled the vmware tools modules and my disk speed went down15:42
Seeker`Pici: They dont always have costumes on15:42
* Pici closes his eyes in horror15:42
Seeker`Pici: :P I meant sometimes they wear normal clothes15:43
PriceChildi assume ot are talking about uncensored...15:43
PiciI'm not assuming anything until they ask specifically.15:44
Amaranthanyone know where i can download the vmware tools iso?15:44
LjLwith emma idling?15:44
Amaranthmine is broken and open-vm-tools makes my VM slower15:44
jpatrickLjL: what was that it youtube video about?15:44
jpatrickLjL: he did the same link in #kde15:44
LjLjpatrick: i've no idea, but he did the same thing yesterday, in both #ubuntu and -ot15:45
PiciAnd in #defocus, and #freenode15:45
LjL!staff | Lollo is spamming a Youtube link in several channels15:45
PiciHes LjL's buddy15:45
PriceChildHe's close to a kline15:45
ubotuLollo is spamming a Youtube link in several channels: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary,  I could use a bit of your time :)15:45
no0ticLjL, also in #freenode15:46
AmaranthLollo again?15:47
Jack_SparrowAnd back at it again...15:47
Amaranthit's a stupid compiz video15:47
PiciI was expecting something more trollish.15:47
Amaranthme too15:48
Amaranthor at least a rickroll15:48
AmaranthSeeker`: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA015:48
PiciIts stupid.15:48
TheSheepare you getting pm spam from Agenomotozg?15:48
AmaranthTheSheep: I already reported it15:49
PiciTheSheep: Yes, I pasted the ident@host in #freenode15:49
TheSheepAmaranth: ok, thanks15:49
Amaranthgah, firefox died downloading vmware server15:50
jdongAmaranth: why the hell did you use firefox to do it?15:51
jdongcurl? (kidding)15:51
Amaranthjdong: i likes mah gooey15:51
Seeker`Amaranth: that video is shocking15:53
jdongAmaranth: that's what SHE said.15:53
AmaranthSeeker`: yes15:54
Amaranthcool, i was the first person to rickroll Seeker`15:54
Jack_SparrowI'm off to bed for a bit..  Take care you guys.. and gals15:54
PiciWhat a stupid meme15:54
PiciCya Jack15:54
Amaranthmy aunt has started spring cleaning early15:55
Seeker`Amaranth: I demand compensation15:55
Amaranthi had to carry 4 old computers, an old printer, and a couple boxes out to the garage15:55
PiciOur trash pickup doesnt allow us to put computer parts on the curb anymore, we need to take them to a special disposal place.15:56
* PriceChild wonders how to hilight an entire line in irssi15:58
no0ticPriceChild, /hilight -line 15:59
PriceChildhmmm nope :/15:59
no0ticPriceChild, so the help says15:59
PriceChildmaybe this script is messing it up16:00
no0ticPriceChild, but it never worked for me16:00
PriceChildlol really?16:00
PiciMe either16:01
no0ticuhm nickcolor.pl? format_identify.pl? could they interfere?16:02
PriceChildi'm playing with the latter16:04
LjLlet let antkin boil in his own oil16:05
PiciDid anyone take a look at his website?16:06
LjLwhat website?16:06
PiciAntkin's. It was in the backlog. http://is4uk.co.uk/index.html16:06
MezThat's the worst example of SEO I've ever seen16:07
Seeker`there *seem* to be *a* lot of *quite* randomly *bolded* words16:07
Mezthe random bolding isnt SEO16:08
MezIt covers16:08
Mezchildren family, Hotmail password, banking, computers, shopping, internet web sites, personal, internet, free, online, virus protection, computer,16:08
Mezanti virus, Firefox, UK, government, family, Mozilla Firefox, firewall and online shopping.16:08
Mezthe bolded words looks like the's trying to test if there is a government spider keeping an eye on him :P 16:09
Seeker`There is even a "Pay" section, where you can pay for windows hardening tools, Mac advice16:09
Seeker`and a "members shout box"16:09
naliothFUD, slightly16:10
Mezhe paid for that design ????????!!?!?!?!?16:11
Seeker`Mez: You pay him for security "tips"16:11
MezSeeker`, no, I mean, look at the bottom, it's a link for a design company16:12
Seeker`Mez: do a "whois aperkin.co.uk"16:13
PiciMez: Check the name of the web design company versus the 'about me' page16:13
Seeker`and what do you think "AntKin" is a contraction of16:13
* Mez wasnt thinking16:13
PiciAnt Kindling16:13
no0ticPriceChild, Pici, /hilight -line doesn't work on a brand new irssi either16:15
PiciI actually just got it to work, but I could swear it wasn't working before.16:15
no0ticPici, how did you manage?16:15
PiciI just did /hilight -line AntKin actually :p16:16
PiciBut it was too bright, so I scaled it back to the default.16:16
MezPici, I have no idea why or how I just managed to read your comment as "I just got lost on the way to work"16:16
no0ticPici, I tried matching a word in a msg16:16
PiciMez: o.O16:17
MezPici, I think my brain exploded yesterday16:17
MezI'm just running on residual energy now16:17
no0ticPici, well, it seems to work matching a nick, but if that nick is talking to you it hilights only his nick16:19
ubotupidgin is the new name for Gaim forced by AOL's legal dept. It is available in Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), but not previous versions. See http://www.pidgin.im/index.php for more info. To install Pidgin please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallPidgin2.016:19
LjL!no pidgin is <reply> Pidgin is Ubuntu's default instant messenger application. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GaimHowto for a short introduction. Older versions of Pidgin than the one included with !Gutsy were named Gaim.16:19
ubotuI'll remember that LjL16:19
ubotuThe Instant Messenger Client Pidgin (formerly Gaim) (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/GaimHowto) supports MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !kopete16:19
* LjL kind of thinks https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pidgin is pretty sad to have16:20
LjL!no pidgin iss <alias> im16:20
LjL!no pidgin is <alias> im16:20
ubotuI'll remember that LjL16:20
ubotuim is <alias> gaim - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 17:40:5416:22
* Pici just messes everything up16:22
ubotugaim aliases: im, pidgin - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 08:50:3416:23
Daviey-!- maduser [n=root@] has left #kubuntu [] <--- I hope that is faked :)16:23
ubotuInstant Messenger Client Kopete (http://kopete.kde.org) is supporting MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !gaim16:23
LjL!no pidgin is <reply> The Instant Messenger Client Pidgin (formerly Gaim) (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/GaimHowto) supports MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !Kopete16:23
ubotuI'll remember that LjL16:23
PiciDaviey: Probably not. I've seen many people use irssi from the single user signon16:23
LjL!no gaim is <alias> pidgin16:23
LjL!no im is <alias> pidgin16:23
ubotuYou are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm16:23
LjL!no im is <alias> pidgin16:23
PriceChildhe coming back?16:24
ubotuim-#kubuntu aliases: kopete - added by Tm_T on 2007-11-14 12:43:2016:24
LjL!no kopete is <reply> Instant Messenger Client Kopete (http://kopete.kde.org) is supporting MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !Pidgin16:24
ubotuI'll remember that LjL16:24
DavieyPici: looks like he's using gaim!16:24
LjL!no im-#kubuntu is <alias> kopete16:24
PiciDaviey: thats even worse16:25
Pici!rootirc | Daviey 16:25
ubotuDaviey: It's not technically our business, but we'd like to tell you that IRC'ing as root is a Very Bad Idea (tm). After all, doing anything as root when root is not needed is bad, and especially bad with software that connects to the Internet.16:25
LjL[17:26:45] <abrakadabra3> ##Linux (with ##) on Dalnet needs some good company and good channel operators. type /server irc.dal.net (or /connect irc.dalnd and join ##Linux. More flexible, more firendly Be there for some time.16:27
ubotuIn ubotu, Pers3ux said: what is your name?16:30
Picibot > Pers3ux16:30
Pici!bot > Pers3ux16:30
PiciI always forget the !, I keep thinking I'm in a query with ubotu 16:31
no0ticPici, PriceChild /set hilight_nick_matches off did the job16:31
PriceChildno0tic: what's that do?16:31
PiciPers3ux: Can we help you? 16:32
no0ticPriceChild, if turned off, it doesn't hilight only the talking nick if he's talking to you and you set -line16:32
Pers3uxno, thx. i only wanted to test ubotu intelligence. excuse for some bad words ;D16:33
PriceChildno0tic: I'm just wondering what it normally does.... if there's any reason why it should be on :P16:33
no0ticPriceChild, normally it hilights every line in wich you are mentioned16:34
PiciPers3ux: Just don't abuse the bot too much, hes been through a lot.16:34
PiciPers3ux: Also see this channel's /topic please16:34
Pers3uxPici: thx. apolegise again16:34
no0ticPriceChild, "Tell irssi whether it should automatically highlight text that matches your nickname.16:35
no0ticPriceChild, from a guide I found16:35
PriceChildno0tic: Thanks :)16:36
Piciuh oh?16:48
MyrttiAntkin @ -ot16:48
Tm_TMyrtti: paste it to me :)16:48
AntkinBanned this time for saying hello one on IRC16:50
LjLAntkin, we knew you were a troll since you started speaking, however i think it's now completely clear to anyone who'd care to read the logs. your ban won't be lifted for a considerable amount of time.16:50
AntkinWhat do you mean a troll? I only said Hello on the support IRC then got bootwed off16:51
PriceChildAntkin: remember what I said earlier in #ubuntu?16:52
PiciAntkin: You were specifically asked not to do that, and yet you seem to not get it.16:52
AntkinYes I do16:52
LjLAntkin, when i say a troll, i mean the following.16:52
LjLi mean someone who i have no regret for when doing the following.16:52
PiciHes going to go complain in -offtopic now.16:53
LjLPici: which is exactly my plan16:53
Seeker`can I get rid of him if he does?16:53
* PriceChild sighs16:54
* Tm_T hugs PriceChild 16:55
Seeker`does someone want to invite Antkin?16:56
LjLhe can come here with his own feet16:56
PiciI'm going to boot them both out if they don't stop.16:56
unagiif asking a question in 3 channels is against the coc it should be IN the coc 16:58
LjLunagi: no.16:58
LjLdefinitely not.16:58
LjLthe CoC is general and doesn't specifically pertain to IRC channels.16:58
LjLwe have the guidelines for that.16:58
ubotuThe people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines16:58
LjLhave you read them yet?16:58
unagioh nice now im banned from the channel16:58
unagithis is getting extremely old16:59
unagii have a paying customer here that i am trying to sell a computer to with linux on it16:59
LjLunagi: please stay on topic.16:59
unagii am ON topic16:59
LjLno, because we don't care about your paying customers.16:59
unagiim sure you dont16:59
unagiyou dont care about anything16:59
LjLdoes this channel's topic mention paying customers? no.16:59
unagiother than 'who can i ban now'17:00
LjLso say something relevant to this channel's topic, or leave.17:00
Tm_Tunagi: sorry son but that isn't true17:00
unagi<unagi> if asking a question in 3 channels is against the coc it should be IN the coc 17:00
LjLunagi: i have explained why that is not true.17:00
unagino you havent17:00
unagiyouve thrown factoids at me that have nothign to do with that17:00
Tm_Tunagi: it does17:01
Tm_Thi Antkin 17:01
LjL[17:58:28] <LjL> the CoC is general and doesn't specifically pertain to IRC channels.17:01
LjL[17:58:32] <LjL> we have the guidelines for that.17:01
LjL[17:58:33] <LjL> !guidelines17:01
LjLhave you read them yet?17:01
AntkinHelp I been banned again this time for saying hello17:01
unagii have17:01
unagithere is nothing there about asking a question in different channels17:01
unagisomeone in one channel that may not be in the other may know the answer17:02
unagiand regardless of if YOU think its relavent or not i needed an answer for a customer17:02
LjLunagi: "Recommendations from channel operators, including those stored in the channel bots, should be followed."17:02
AntkinTm_T I'm getting clobbered hard today17:02
PriceChildAntkin: this was after you were asked not to correct?17:02
LjLunagi: do you somehow think i'm more sympathetic to spam if it's spam due to the need to answer a *paying* customer's request?17:02
unagithen put it in the coc if thats the way it should  be17:02
Tm_TAntkin: sorry son, but what I have seen, you keep doing things you have told not to17:03
Seeker`Antkin: To be fair, you aren't listening to what you are being told to do / not do17:03
LjLi'm rather not, to be honest, although that is irrelevant.17:03
unagiits not spam17:03
unagibut WHATEVER17:03
unagiits whatever YOU want it to be17:03
Tm_Tunagi: no17:03
LjLunagi: <unagi> then put it in the coc if thats the way it should  be <--- have you listened to what i said? i think not.17:03
unagias long as it means that i am wrong you will mold and create new rules so that i have broken them17:03
unagii cant follow rules unless i know they are there17:03
LjLunagi: i've told you about it.17:04
unagiand since it is a rule from you, well gee i guess i couldnt have known17:04
AntkinI only said hello17:04
unagiafter it had happened17:04
Tm_TAntkin: where?17:04
unagithis gestapo bullcrap is getting annoying it really is17:04
Tm_TAntkin: and, who banned?17:04
Tm_Tunagi: no17:04
LjLunagi: so what? did i ban you? no, i just told you not to do it. (besides, it's completely common sense, but anyway)17:04
ubotuUnsure how you should behave on this channel? See (in a private message with the bot, /msg ubotu <keyword>): !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam, !PM, !English - And most importantly, use common sense...17:04
AntkinOn the support IRC17:04
unagiobviously its not so common17:04
PriceChildTm_T: no need.17:04
unagii consider spam to be in one channel not in 317:04
PriceChildAntkin: this was after you were asked not to correct?17:04
LjLTm_T, nobody banned originally, i just said <LjL> unagi: why don't you spam your question in a couple more channels?17:04
unagiin a facetious manner17:05
unagii guess its ok for ops to be facetious17:05
Tm_TPriceChild: danke17:05
AntkinI was never asked not to say hello17:05
LjLAntkin: yes, you were17:05
PriceChildAntkin: would you like me to pull up timestamps from the public logs at irclogs.ubuntu.com ?17:05
AntkinWhat would that prove?17:06
LjLAntkin: that you were asked.17:06
unagiAntkin: just know that ops are always right even if theyre not17:06
AmaranthI specifically asked you not to do so and explained why17:06
PriceChildunagi: Calm down.17:06
Amaranthalso, live-helper running in a virtual machine is slow17:07
Amaranthstupid amd64 machine17:07
Amaranthoh jeez, this is fixed in live-helper in sid17:08
AntkinI was asked to stay on topic and given a final warning. Then I got booted off. The I went back on again and said Hello and was instantly banned and booted off again17:08
PriceChildok one moment, let me find timestamp of mine and ljl's requests17:08
Amaranthgah, and it used an amd64 kernel in the x86 virtual machine too17:08
* Amaranth stabs things17:08
LjL[17:34] <Antkin> federa Hi17:09
LjL[17:34] *** Antkin has left #ubuntu (requested by LjL: "Bye")17:09
LjL[17:36] <Antkin> Hello17:09
LjL[17:37] *** Antkin has left #ubuntu (requested by LjL: "Bye")17:09
LjL[17:37] <LjL> Antkin: just stop it with greetings.17:09
LjL[17:42] <Antkin> Hello all17:09
LjL[17:42] *** Antkin has left #ubuntu (requested by LjL: "You should have known better, bye")17:09
PriceChild15:53LjLAntkin: that was a subtle hint to stop greeting every time you join. [16:49:00] <PriceChild> Antkin: to be polite... everyone sees your join message. There is no need to tell us you are back :)17:09
PriceChild(from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/03/03/%23ubuntu.html )17:10
LjLAntkin: so, do you have anything else than blatant lies for us?17:10
AntkinI don't lie I want to get to the bottom of this once again17:11
LjLAntkin: how can you claim you haven't lied?17:11
LjLlet me answer that for you, you can't.17:11
Antkinis saying Hi a lie is saying Hello a lie?17:12
LjLAntkin: non sequitur.17:12
Amaranth09:47AmaranthAntkin: If you don't know the answer don't tell them to Google it, just don't say anything17:12
Amaranth09:47AmaranthAntkin: And don't greet everyone as they come in, that's too much traffic17:12
PriceChildThe above log excerpts prove you were asked not to greet the channel each time you joined... a really simple, polite request. You deny that? Please check the logs site I have given.17:12
AntkinLJL please speak in plain english17:12
PriceChildi can't spell17:12
LjLAntkin, see pricechild. anyway, you can easily google "non sequitur".17:13
AntkinI have not told anyone to google this afternoon so therefore I have not lied on that issue17:13
LjLAntkin: non sequitur.17:13
AntkinLjL I do not understand you please say it again in plain english 17:14
PiciYou're comparing apples with oranges.17:15
PriceChildAntkin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)17:15
no0ticNon sequitur (logic), logical fallacy17:15
LjLAntkin: what you're being accused of lying about is your claim that <Antkin> I was never asked not to say hello17:15
AntkinSo you playing games with me now17:15
LjLAntkin: but PriceChild and I said that clearly enough already a number of times.17:16
LjLah, no, not quite.17:16
LjLi'm pretty much convinced that you are playing games with us.17:16
LjLAntkin: so, review the logs, and please reply to my question: were you asked to stop greeting people on join?17:16
Garywow, still feeding then17:17
AntkinYes I was but did not understand that i could not say hello17:18
Jack_SparrowGuys look at ubuntu for a sec.. oriana?17:18
PiciJack_Sparrow: Probably just a mistype, I didnt see any drops because of it.17:18
LjLAntkin: if you could not understand that after so many pretty obvious warnings, then i suggest you're not apt at helping or being helped in #ubuntu17:18
PiciJack_Sparrow: I'd remove if they do it again though.17:18
LjLAntkin: i stand of my opinion that your ban won't be lifted for a considerable amount of time.17:18
LjLif you have no further questions, please leave this channel.17:18
Jack_SparrowOk..  17:19
PriceChildJack_Sparrow: pm17:19
Jack_SparrowYou need not ask me.17:19
AntkinSo lets make it very clear. I am no longer allowed to say hello on the support channel17:20
PriceChildAntkin: correct.17:20
LjLPriceChild, well, that's only correct as a corollary17:20
LjLAntkin: you're no longer allowed to *enter* the support channel.17:20
AntkinYes I know that I am banned17:21
PriceChildLjL: I would prefer we keep answers simple. :)17:21
LjLAntkin: yes, so as i said, do you have any further questions for us?17:21
AntkinCan we work this out?17:21
Myrttisure, but not today17:21
LjLAntkin: we've had a chance to. you missed that chance.17:22
Antkinwhat chance? When did I miss it?17:22
Myrttioh my17:22
LjLAntkin: when we talked earlier.17:22
Myrttiyou *REALLY* aren't getting it17:22
Myrttiwe need to resupply our alphabet blocks17:23
AntkinI want a result in my favour17:24
Myrttiseem to have used them all out while trying to spell things to peopled17:24
Myrtti/me gives LjL an alphabet cookie17:25
AmaranthEveryone wants a result in their favour17:25
PiciIts too bad that he wants to help... 17:25
Amaranthwikipedia is weird17:26
Amaranth"In some areas, sexual abuse of individuals is prohibited by law and considered against the norms of society."17:26
Amaranthand do not ask how i ended up on the page that has that, i could not tell you17:26
no0ticoh my17:27
Amaranthit's talking world wide17:27
Amaranthso apparently not allowing sexual abuse is a minority thing17:27
PiciWhats that for?17:28
Amaranthi have no idea17:29
Amaranthi was aimlessly clicking wikipedia links17:29
PiciAmaranth: Heh, I meant unagi's ellipses.17:29
Myrttiso unagi17:29
PiciI figured thats what you were doing.17:29
no0ticyou know what? There are cultures out there for which sexual abuse isn't considered against anything.. but I think _they_ are a minority. Nevertheless that sentence is misleading...17:30
unagiso Myrtti17:31
Myrttiyo peeps, back to business!17:31
Pici'yo peeps'.  yikes.17:32
* unagi stares at the screen17:33
LjLunagi, ok, so let's restart the reasoning from scratch17:33
unagieven when trying to adhere to the rules it seems that i break some abstract rule that i had no way of knowing17:34
LjLunagi: the CoC codifies general principles, it cannot and should not go into the details of specific contexts such as the forums, or IRC, etc17:34
unagiand i can understand that except i feel that my reason for asking in 3 channels is legit17:34
Piciunagi: Breaking stupid rules that you don't know about isn't the end of the world, its your attitude about it.17:34
LjLunagi: on IRC, we have the IRC guidelines. even those, obviously, can't cover every possible behavior that is disruptive to the channels, or they would take up more space than the Wiki server has.17:34
LjLunagi: so what happens is that operators use their own common sense, and inform you when you're being disruptive.17:35
unagii wasnt trying to be disruptive or annoying by asking in 3 channels17:35
LjLunagi: it is hoped that your own common sense matches the operators', but when that doesn't happen, you are informed.17:35
Myrttia small recap for me please, which were the channels? #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic and...?17:35
unagii suppose it just irritates me that even when i am trying to be good im not17:36
LjLunagi: well, i perceived it as disruptive, however. i'm sorry i've used sarcasm instead of just telling you in plain words - that attitude of mine might have been due to the fact that you were previously muted, and were evading the mute, and were also previously banned several times.17:36
LjLunagi: nevertheless, the fact remains that if operators do point out that your behavior is considered disruptive, you should take that as a guideline.17:36
unagiwould it be percieved as ban evading if i loaded up one of 7 computers in this business running irc?17:37
unagithat in itsself is a gray area to me17:37
unagiare you banning my nick, my server, or me as a person17:37
Myrttiyour behaviour17:37
Myrttibe it your person, nick or server17:37
LjLunagi, the ban is on yourself. why would we care about which computer you are on? (of course, we do have to care technically, but that's not the point of a ban)17:37
unagii dont like being made out to be a complete moron, and when that is said in alternate words and nothing is said, that seems very hypocritical to me17:38
unagireferring of course to the mute17:39
PriceChildI don't follow?17:39
LjLPriceChild: he's talking about when i muted him the other day.17:39
PriceChildoh yes17:39
PriceChildI don't understand how that makes him out to be a moron though?17:39
unagijust this insignificant person the other day not able to listen to reason17:40
unagiit really wasnt a big deal17:40
PriceChildSomeone was making you out to be a moron... you got muted?17:40
unagibecause i got frustrated and pointed out the others ignorance using the word moron got me muted17:41
PriceChildYou were made out to be a moron by being muted?17:41
AntkinHello if I'm allowed to say that here17:41
PriceChildAntkin: enough with the cheek.17:41
unagii was made out to be a moron by this other person, i was muted for voicing my opinion on the others stubborness and oblivion17:41
unagii was supposedly /ignored and out came 'what a moron' from me17:42
AntkinThat's not cheek I got botted off last time17:42
unagiim going to sit out until Antkin is done17:42
PriceChildunagi: I think that was more of 'a straw that broke the camel's back' although I can't be sure17:42
unagioh i know it was PriceChild the thing is, that using other words the same was said about me to the other party but they arent and wont be banned17:43
LjLunagi, i already told you that you wouldn't have been muted if you didn't just push the CoC thing (just like you've done now, and been banned for it).17:43
PriceChildaha right I'm with you now17:43
LjLPriceChild: you can be sure - there's a paste attacked to the entry17:43
AntkinHow do I lift a ban?17:43
LjLAntkin, you don't.17:43
unagipretty much what im saying is that i am trying my hardest to adhere to the guidelines but that is proving to be very difficult17:44
Antkinhow do you lift a ban?17:44
PriceChildunagi: I would suggest in future, if you believe someone is going against the CoC or guidelines, that you talk to an operator in pm or here rather than calling them a moron?17:44
unagiseeing as how the coc is a large general area17:44
LjLAntkin: using the /mode command.17:44
unagiunderstood, the discussion was over....which is why i said it wasnt a big deal17:44
naliothAntkin: for technical information about managing channels, there are other channels more suited for your questions17:44
naliothAntkin: if you are trying to ask when "your" ban will be removed, that is up to the banning operator17:44
unagirephrased.........i was muted after the discussion was over17:45
AntkinWho is the banning operator this time?17:45
LjLunagi, one thing at a time though. first off, have you followed the reasoning i made when i said i'd "restart the reasoning from scratch"=17:45
LjLAntkin: that would be me17:45
unagiim following you17:46
PriceChildGrr just hit alt+f4 instead of alt+417:46
unagii was banned for pushing changes to coc17:46
LjLunagi: no, not that reasoning17:46
AntkinAre you sure because last time on ops I was told it was somebody else17:46
LjLunagi: "the CoC codifies general principles, it cannot and should not go into the details of specific contexts such as the forums, or IRC, etc.  on IRC, we have the IRC guidelines. even those, obviously, can't cover every possible behavior that is disruptive to the channels, or they would take up more space than the Wiki server has.  so what happens is that operators use their own common sense, and inform you when you're being disruptive.  it is hoped 17:46
LjLthat your own common sense matches the operators', but when that doesn't happen, you are informed."17:46
LjLthis reasoning17:47
LjLAntkin: that's because you've been given another chance (by me) after your first ban, and then banned again.17:47
AntkinHow long will the ban last?17:47
LjLunagi: do you, uh, agree with it, if that's not too strong a word?17:47
LjLAntkin, a considerable amount of time.17:48
PriceChildunagi: we aren't evil and power tripping, who love having discussions like this. We just want to keep the Ubuntu channels running smoothly.17:48
Antkina week a month a year?17:48
unagiunderstandable, i really am trying to adhere17:48
LjLAntkin: i suggest you come back to discuss it again in a month.17:48
LjLunagi: ok, so, let's get to why you were banned *now* (then we can talk about the mute)17:49
AntkinAre you realy sure about that I think I'd be better off formatting four hard drives and removing Ubuntu from my systems17:49
LjLunagi: you were banned because you were repeatedly warned, by multiple people, to stop arguing or to move the arguing to this channel. even after it was clearly stated that you would be banned if you persisted - well, you persisted, and that got you banned.17:49
LjLAntkin: yes, i'm sure.17:50
unagito tell you the truth, i hadnt seen that, that was suggested to me.........when i did i moved to this channel to which 5 seconds after i was promptly banned17:50
LjLunagi: now, one thing that's *very* useful on IRC is taking a deep breath and walking away for a couple of minutes at least, when you just can't keep yourself from arguing.17:51
AntkinI was a mandriva user and in all my time there I was never insulted or called a Troll17:51
Amaranthwell that sucked17:51
Amaranthi'm almost never on the server that split17:51
LjLunagi, you would have seen it, i think, if you weren't enraged by it all.17:52
LjLunagi: that's part of the reason why walking away for a little while is useful.17:52
AmaranthI hope the floodbots don't start fighting again17:52
LjLAmaranth: good time for fixing them if they do, since i'm looking17:53
Amaranthwell, they all agree on status for now17:53
Amaranthlast time one of them realized the split was over and the other two didn't17:53
Amaranththey're somewhat out of sync now, i forsee bad things17:54
Amaranthalso, PriceChild, don't press alt-f4 on my server again :P17:54
LjLunagi: anyway, even if you missed the very last line, you *were* told a number of times that pushing the issue would result in trouble. is that true? well, it depends... but if you push an issue when you're enraged about it, yes, it generally results in trouble.17:54
unagiif it were any other time i probably wouldnt have been enraged, it involved a paying customer17:55
unagiwhich blinded my judgement17:56
LjLunagi, ok, blinded judgement sometimes happen to everyone for one reason or another. i'm happy you at least understand that it's an issue of blinded judgement. now do we want to talk about the mute, or do you think you see what the leitmotif is here?17:57
AmaranthLjL: will the floodbots reop themselves?17:57
Amaranththey just spit out a warning about it17:57
LjLAmaranth: no, i've removed that feature because it wasn't really working. it's quite a nuisance.17:57
unagiif you feel a discussion is needed17:59
LjLunagi, that depends. i can tell you in advance that your ban won't be removed for a day or two, because we need to make a point after all, if i can be that plain. but thinking things over will likely allow something like this to not happen again - and if thinking things over doesn't work, then talking things over might.18:01
unagii feel that a day or two ban is a bit overkill but im sure that my opinion wont matter18:02
LjLunagi, we generally feel that less than that is basically as good as nothing18:03
unagiim finding it increasingly more difficult to suggest switching from windows to linux because of mishaps like these18:04
LjLand unagi, you're back to the fallacy of "everyone is out to get me". you sounded reasonable a minute ago. i'm guessing that telling you that the ban will not be removed right away enraged you again a bit. so walk away another five minutes, and then tell me if you think discussing the mute or other matters further will help.18:04
unagii have given no indication of any enragement and suggesting so is a bit presumptuous18:05
MyrttiI really dislike it when people start to hold a knife to their ubuntu desktop cd's and say "lift the ban or the cd will get it"18:07
LjLunagi, the indication was "but i'm sure that my opinion wont matter". but as i said, i'm *guessing* from that, i'm not "accusing you of being enraged"... if you're not enraged, then fine, you're not enraged, but i merely suggest that you check out the possibility that you are18:07
LjLunagi: so it's up to you whether you want to walk away for a couple of minutes again before continuing the discussion, and then deciding whether or not it's worth to discuss further18:08
unagiif youre decision is firm that a day or two ban is actually going to teach me a lesson on misunderstandings then i suppose there isnt anything more to discuss unless im missing something18:09
LjLunagi, yes, i think you could say it's what the ban is hoping to achieve. i don't know if you're missing something - that's what i'm asking *you*. if you think discussing the mute will help clearing things up in the long term, then let's discuss it, if you think it'd be counter-productive, then let's forget it.18:12
unagiif the ban and mute is only to be lifted in 1 or 2 days then i guess there is nothing further to discuss18:13
LjLunagi: yes, the ban stays for some time regardless of what we say here, at this point.18:14
LjLunagi, i should ask you to leave this channel now, and come back in a day or two18:23
ompaulunagi, I strongly suggest you do as LjL kindly hints at18:24
unagii was away from my pc18:25
ompaulhave it your way18:25
unagii appologize for any inconvieniance18:25
ubotuYum! Err, I mean, APT!18:26
LjLi think unagi should be unbanned if he comes back asking nicely enough.18:27
LjLhe got relatively reasonable.18:27
ompaulhopefully he stays that way 18:27
jdongIt blows my mind that one can dedicate so much time to quibbling... Don't people just stop and think "this is silly... I should either stop or leave"?18:28
LjLjdong, some of the people who can't make that stop-and-think thing eventually become channel operators.18:28
ompauljdong, I hope that question was rhetorical18:29
ompaulLjL, care to rephrase18:29
ompaulmaybe no18:29
LjLi've spent all afternoon dealing with unagi and antkin :)18:30
ompaulantkin not known to me18:32
Seeker`ompaul: its probably best that way18:32
jdongompaul: did you try asking on the forums?18:32
ompaulfor them or me18:32
Seeker`ompaul: you18:32
ompaulohh 18:32
LjLompaul: code name is "serial greeter". you can check the lengthy backscrolls of several channels... in any case, don't unban :)18:33
ompaulLjL, ack18:43
ompaulnice but not18:43
ompaulhello I can troll with the word hell can't i 18:44
LjLhell yes18:44
ompaulI can troll with the word hello that is18:44
ompaulhello LjL ;-)18:44
ompaulohh that is special18:44
LjLthough the hello thing wasn't his primary aim18:45
LjLi bet his primary aim was putting us against the forums18:45
ompaulso a divide and conquer 18:45
ompaulnice - sorry been there, done that, burnt the tee shirt18:46
cmdbbqi can't get into #ubuntu, it says i am banned, and i was wondering why18:57
cmdbbqit may be a result of my connection mthod18:57
LjLcmdbbq: indeed we don't let proxies and open shells join #ubuntu, due to abuse18:58
cmdbbqah i see18:58
cmdbbqi am regrettably unable to connect directly from my university18:58
LjLcmdbbq: can't you connect straight from your ISP?18:59
Picicmdbbq: freenode is open on port 8001 as well, if your university is blocking 6667.18:59
cmdbbqi am at school now and for some reason they block connections to irc servers18:59
LjLcmdbbq: try Pici's suggestion. « /server irc.freenode.net 8001 » with most clients.19:00
cmdbbqi would love to know how, but they block outgoing irc connections on all ports19:00
PiciAh, packet shaping.19:01
ompaulwell if it is gnu/linux they use iptables, and if BSD then pf19:01
naliothcmdbbq: have you tried port 8000, 8001 or 8002 ?19:01
cmdbbqyeah i have never gotten a good answer as to why though19:01
ompaulcos it is a time sink and it gets admins grief 19:01
cmdbbqi think all the servers (except the VPN) are gnu/linux19:02
cmdbbqso yeah iptables19:02
cmdbbqcest la vie19:02
naliothcmdbbq: see PM19:02
cmdbbqthanks for the suggestion19:02
Davieycmdbbq: use a proxy?19:06
ompaulthat last one was for reasons of previous trollage I refuse to take it as a serious question19:06
ompaulDaviey,  we ban proxies19:06
Davieyompaul: i mean a socks proxy19:07
PiciDaviey: proxies are often abused.19:07
ompaulno one cares :)19:08
Daviey_<-- via socks proxy19:09
jussi01nalioth: May I pm for a moment?19:16
naliothjussi01: any time19:16
PriceChildompaul: did you mean Slade then?19:17
ompaulPriceChild, he was told repeat and straight away said ok19:17
ompaulthen hit the same question with more words19:17
PriceChildompaul: sorry yes misread.19:17
PriceChildwas reading the language guy by accident19:18
ompaulif he had not been so quick to repeat Iwould have answered19:18
=== profoX_ is now known as profoX`
Pici'DoYouKnow' sounds familiar, although I may be confusing it with New Now Know How19:33
Seeker`Hello Pici. You tried looking on the forums for "DoYouKnow"? :P19:34
PiciSeeker`: I almost spit my soda out on my keyboard, thanks19:35
=== profoX_ is now known as profoX
=== profoX is now known as profoX`
jussi01bot is dead :(20:18
ubotuping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore20:18
PiciJust a bit lethargic.20:18
jussi01or just slow...20:18
jussi01just a little...lol20:18
* Amaranth_ hugs ubotu20:20
Amaranth_aww, no love20:21
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
Seveasubotu2 is visiting #ubuntu now20:42
Seveasno helpers are enabled, so it cannot say a word20:42
Seveaslet's see how well it holds in there 20:42
OKayI can't join to the ubuntu channel20:47
OKayCould someone answer why is that?20:49
Seveasprobaly someone can :)20:49
OKayanyway, i'm starting with ubuntu and i have a problem, i can't play vmw files..20:50
SeveasOKay, this is no support channel20:50
OKaywell, i hear the voice but can't see anything :)20:50
PiciOKay: Give us a moment to check our logs.20:50
SeveasPici, can you please hurry on the new bantracker, the old one can't cope :)20:50
PiciSeveas: I'm working on it, work has consumed all my time lately :/20:51
Seveasheh, same here20:51
Seveasif ubotu2 holds up I'll help20:51
Seeker`pfft, work is overrated20:51
Seveasband4life, get out while you can. If a staffer sees you he might k-line20:53
okkaynow my nick, ident and realname arent rude20:55
okkaythe ban was because of them20:55
Seveasokkay, yeah, I just found out in the logs20:55
Seveasseems fair to remove the ban now20:55
okkayi didn't know the rule20:55
Seveasokkay, ban has been removed20:56
band4lifeseveas i was supposed to come here and talk to LjL20:56
Seveasband4life, from what I heard there's a bit more going on than that20:56
band4lifeso what am I supposed to do?  20:57
band4lifenever return?20:57
Seveasband4life, well that would be a solution ;)20:57
okkayah, and idling here is not allowed either20:58
okkaybye and thank you for removing the ban :)20:59
band4lifetrue,  but from what I gathered at other channels my banning is not unheard of.  Infact it is common.  So if I am going to continue to be mistreated, I am going to report some of the ops.  20:59
band4lifethanks to those of you who were friendly20:59
Seeker`who does he think he will be reporting the ops to?21:03
jussi01Seeker`: there is a process21:03
AmaranthIRC Council then Community Council21:05
AmaranthThen I suppose freenode technically fits in there somewhere but they're pretty hands off about such things21:05
jussi01I dont think its ever gotten to the cc has it?21:05
AmaranthWell, we've had lots of things go to the CC before the IRC Council existed21:06
AmaranthThat's how new ops got approved :P21:06
ompaulwell if you want to call yourself band4life and a real name of evade - are you going to impress those to whom you are asking for access to their controlled zone?21:11
ompaulyes but not in the way you intend :)21:11
Seveasdidn't last long before ubotu2 bugged out21:18
Seveasstupid me forgot to override __hash__ in the case insensitive subclass of unicode and then used it as dict index21:19
waynrdudei find it interesting that when ops talk about vista and microsoft it is ok21:22
waynrdudebut the second i say something its not21:22
waynrdudeunless im missing something.....21:23
PriceChildwaynrdude: channel?21:25
ompaulI don't talk about them unless I want to disparage something21:26
waynrdudeit was more than 121:26
waynrdude3 or 4 people in on a conversation about vista, no one had a problem with it until i was in on it21:26
PriceChildwaynrdude: whether its allowed or not... I don't see ompaul or another op talking about it?21:27
ompaulno 21:27
ompaulwaynrdude, no no no, now let me help you 21:27
waynrdude<topyli> meh, i'm sure it's ok as far as windows systems go. it's just new to me that it doesn't come with any applications like linux distros do :)21:27
ompaulI was out having dinner21:27
waynrdudeFlare183 says Vista is a load of Crap!!!21:27
ompaulI came back 21:27
PriceChildwaynrdude: neither of those are ops?21:27
ompauland I saw it I said !windows21:27
ompaulthen I directed it at you - when it failed to stop21:28
waynrdudebut why just directed at me?21:28
waynrdudei wasnt the only one discussing it nor was i the one to initiate it21:28
ompaulwaynrdude, cos when I said !windows21:28
ompaulyou kept at it21:28
PriceChildwaynrdude: is this a new complaint?21:28
PriceChildwaynrdude: Stop, go away and grab a drink. Watch tv or read a book for 10 minutes, then if you are still annoyed, come back, review the logs, and decide what you don't like and would like changed.21:29
ompaulwaynrdude, and if you need help with scroll back I can post it from when I came back to now21:29
waynrdudei dont like that it was only when i decided to join in on the discussion of vista and windows that it was directed at me to stop as if i started it21:29
ompaulwaynrdude, read what I said21:30
Seveaswaynrdude, don't be paranoid, that's a coincidence21:30
ompaulit was only directed at you - after you went again when I had done a !windows21:30
ompaulto the channel21:30
ompaulhey man it is not personal I have a thing about windows discussions and support in ubuntu-offtopic 21:31
ompaulI don't like it21:31
ompaulbut that is just me21:31
Seveasnot just you21:31
waynrdudeid agree if anyone was asking for support21:31
ompaulthe discussion is offtopic21:31
ompaulin offtopic21:31
Seveas!o4o > waynrdude 21:31
waynrdudeanyone else see the irony in that?21:31
Seveaswaynrdude, stop trolling now.21:32
waynrdudeeveryone to an op is a troll..............>EOD21:32
PriceChildwaynrdude: *strongly* suggest you read and follow my advice above, then decide what you want to complain about21:32
PriceChildwaynrdude: *strongly* suggest you read and follow my advice above, then decide what you want to complain about21:32
waynrdudefuck you dude21:32
waynrdudei merely joined in a conversation21:32
ompaulPriceChild, guess he didn't21:33
PriceChildIf you're annoyed about something... fine. But don't come into a channel and claim something much worse.21:35
ompaulhe wanted to be wound up21:36
LjLSeveas: +121:36
Seeker`People enjoy complaining21:37
SeveasLjL, :)21:37
Seeker`almost as much as the british enjoy queuing21:37
PriceChildCan I kick him next?21:38
PriceChildoh wait...21:38
ompaulhe ain't sayin much21:40
PriceChildhe's in pm with m21:41
ompaulwell give him the logs 21:47
ompaulI walked in to my client when I started off21:47
ompaulso he can take it or not21:47
ompaulbut it is me he needs to talk with 21:47
ompaulPriceChild, is he still burning your ear?22:00
ompauluangi is not to be unbanned waynrdude was him 22:13
* ompaul gets a little annoyed22:14
LjLfor your information: the above "waynrdude" is again "unagi", ban evading one too many times. don't unban.22:15
Seveasah, unagi again22:20
LjLSeveas: see PM22:20
ompaulyou were asked nicely to do something 23:50
ompaulirc is not a democracy23:50
ompaulStormx2`, have a cup of tea or something 23:51
mneptokStormx2`: and next time you are asked nicely to follow channel rules, please do make an argument out of it.23:52
Stormx2`You know, you guys aren't _always_ right. And saying IRC isn't a democracy has no bearing on this. I didn't elect you, I don't want to, I trust that you've worked hard for your positions.23:53
mneptokerr ... "do not"23:53
TheSheepactually, those positions are more of a punishment :)23:54
LjLStormx2`, thing is, when an op asks you to [not] do something, comply, and if you don't agree, say it *here*, don't start a flamewar in the channel23:54
PriceChild(or pm)23:54
PriceChild(preferable pm first)23:55
LjLor that, yea23:55
LjLanyway point is, not in the channel23:55
mneptokStormx2`: and if you want to debate the merit of an interpretation of the rules, do so. don't attack the person. "don't you have anything better to do" is not going to earn you many friends or much goodwill.23:55
Stormx2`"Please be considerate of everyone and keep all the #ubuntu channels family friendly", "When using any #ubuntu channel, please avoid the use of swearing..."23:56
Stormx2`Firstly, "sucks" isn't swearing.23:56
Stormx2`I can't even find a definition which says vulgar, expletive, etc.23:56
Stormx2`let alone a sane reference to it being swearing.23:57
Stormx2`As for family friendly, we really have had worse in that channel than "sucks".23:57
mneptokmy objection was not to the word "sucks"23:57
LjLwell having had worse hardly justifies anything23:57
Stormx2`LjL of course it doesn't, all i'm saying is it's right at the occult-end of the defintion of family friendly.23:58
mneptokexcept the word wasn't "sucks"23:58
Stormx2`They're on the same level.23:58
mneptokit was people using "badass" and "blows" within 20 seconds of each other.23:58
mneptoklet's stop the avalanche before it gathers bigger rocks.23:59
mneptokand let's be clear, you were NOT banned for language.23:59
ompaulStormx2`, point is - conversation level was going in the wrong direction 23:59

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