[02:08] I have returned after my 9 or 10 day expulsion. May I please be allowed to join #ubuntu? [02:08] band4life: Who asked you to come back after 9 or 10 days? [02:08] I believe it was Nalioth. not 100 percent though [02:08] Seeker`: i did. [02:08] band4life: you'll need to speak to LjL [02:09] is ljl here? [02:09] I believe that LjL has gone to bed [02:09] does ljl frequent here in the sunshine hours? [02:09] tomorrow perhaps? [02:10] band4life: depends on what you count as the sunshine hours [02:10] band4life: i'm sorry to disillusion you, but the world doesn't revolve around you [02:10] nalioth to i seem to be under some sort of spell? [02:10] do you take me for some ignorant fool? [02:11] nalioth farewell my fair weather friend [02:13] I get the feeling that he wont be unbanned any time soon [06:05] LjL? [06:16] am I booted from all of the rooms? or just #ubuntu? [06:16] cuz i kinda get the feeling that im gettin shrugged [09:33] nalioth, that's an interesting ident that band4life chap has [09:34] its an interesting spelling of banned too [09:35] Seeker`, i think that's him trying to be clever [09:35] as is his ident [09:35] "look at me, i'm so clever I cant spell banned"? [09:35] he probably chnaged it to try and get round the ban, and left it like that when it didn't work [09:37] Seeker`, no probably about it [09:38] I get the impression that he probably wont be unbanned for a while [09:43] ArthurArchnix called the ops in #ubuntu (Antkin | In the last two hours all he has done is greet people who enter the room. Then, he tells them to google it or go post on the forums. At least two people have left immediately after being told this before someone else could step in.) [09:45] hwilde called the ops in #ubuntu () [10:01] IRC really makes you question whether humans are really that clever [10:08] Lynoure called the ops in #kubuntu () [10:09] Amaranth, are you monitoring antkin? [10:10] crap, i got sidetracked by an email [10:11] just removed him for pastin [10:11] Yeah, if I would have seen I would have just booted him when he started saying hi to everyone that joined again [10:12] i'm quite sporadically laggy atm [10:14] Amaranth, he's back [10:14] alright, i'll see if he does anything for a couple minutes here [10:17] And that's the end of that [10:17] total troll, imho [10:22] yep [10:22] either that or clueless guy [10:22] either way we don't want them [10:32] spammer on the loose: daba [n=daba@83-131-31-115.adsl.net.t-com.hr] [10:33] Tm_T, dalnet? [10:33] elkbuntu: dalnet? dunno about dalnet but this guy hit #kubuntu and #kde-devel with spamflood already, dunno others [10:34] ah ok. there's been a serial PM spammer on the loose on an off for the past few months spamming various linux channels on dalnet [10:34] no [10:34] 1231.51 < daba> http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/ [11:30] GazzaK: wheres Gary? [11:31] Oakbox: How can we help you? [11:32] jussi01: ^^ [11:33] Tm_T: gahh, forward that guy here if you want, complete pita, has no Idea how to act on irc. :( [11:36] ah sorry im actuly after someone who can help my with QT4 colours as my have been mucked up :( [11:36] /me hugs elkbuntu [11:37] Oakbox: sorry, this channel is not for support, #kubuntu-kde4 might be a good start, or #kde :)) [11:38] Tm_T: ta :) [11:38] Oakbox: and good luck son :) === GazzaK is now known as Gary [11:43] jussi01: hehe [11:48] PriceChild: ping, when you have a moment. [11:48] pong [11:49] PriceChild: may I pm for a moment? [11:50] sure [11:52] I miss my phone :-< [11:53] * jussi01 huggles Myrtti [11:53] n=MeriChah@116.71.177.192 (freenode) [11:53] 1348.48 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with MeriChahat_ [11:53] 1348.48 ##Linux (with ##) on Dalnet needs some good company and good channel operators. type /server irc.dal.net (or /connect [11:53] irc.dal.net) and join ##Linux. More flexible, more firendly Be there for some time.. [11:53] bahhhh [11:53] sorry for flooding [11:53] Tm_T: you hit the jackpot [11:54] Myrtti: I always do [12:03] Hello [12:05] I have been banned from Ubuntu Support IRC this morning can you help me? [12:06] Antkin: you will need to wait for the operator who banned you [12:07] OK how long will that take? [12:07] Antkin: Im not sure. do you know who banned you? [12:09] @btlogin [12:09] No, I think I flooded the channel by accident and got banned by the BOT [12:16] jussi01 are you still here? [12:44] Hobbsee: jussi01: he is "green", and bit jumpy pushy ;) [12:44] right... [12:45] greeting everyone and then pointing them to forums, for example [12:45] hrmmm [12:48] * jussi01 cries [12:48] funny son [14:18] LjL: does your client not allow you remove bans all at once? [14:18] jpatrick: only if i type them in manually [14:18] not by multiple selection [14:18] LjL: I usually do: /mode -b foo@bar -b whatever.. [14:18] * Mez slaps LjL [14:19] jpatrick: which would be /mode -bbbb a b c d, strictly speaking, although your version works. [14:19] but i'm lazy and prefer to go to the bans list, filter by "ljl", and click. [14:19] LjL, /unban ## ## ## (where ##s stand for ban number) [14:19] LjL, your ctcp version is annoying, what client do you use? [14:19] no0tic: sorted by date, hopefully? [14:20] LjL, good morning though [14:20] Mez: my VERSION reply is that way because i've too often been crippled by CTCP attacks... i'm on konversation [14:20] no0tic: thanks, but strangely i woke up hours ago today [14:20] LjL, no I know, which is why I just dont respond to one ;) [14:21] LjL, uhm, sorted by "I don't know what" [14:21] Mez: unfortunately konversation is too stubborn to allow that [14:21] no0tic: sounds useful [14:21] LjL, I wouldnt know - for some reason, even as a KDE afficianado, I cannot stand it's messaging programs [14:21] Mez: still, an empty reply is less likely to result in an excess flood. i should solve this in a better way anyhow [14:21] which is why i should write a decent proxy [14:21] which is why i should use python as i mentioned in -ot [14:22] well no, the reason i should use python is because i want to interface it to my mobile, and there's only python on it [14:22] LjL: Did you seew hat Band4life was looking for you? [14:22] LjL, what about ctrl_proxy ? It's actually a rather good one [14:22] Seeker`: i saw i got a PM from him [14:23] LjL, checked out, they are sorted by date & type [14:23] LjL: ah, cool [14:24] Mez: i think i've tried it but been put off by something. don't remember what exactly, since i've tried a few... i think i had "bip" in the queue to (re)try next. what i'm looking for is *good* logging (timestamps with seconds, for a start, and no "X has quit" being broadcast in *all* channels), auto-/away when i detach and /away off when i reattach, auto "i'm away" message when someone PMs me, and no surprises. but i also would like to write my own [14:24] because of things like, well, handling CTCP floods, and interfacing with mobile [14:24] no0tic: type? [14:25] LjL, yes, bans first, quiets last, each group sorted by date (newer first) [14:25] no0tic: strange that it knows about quiets [14:25] LjL, If you're interested in writing your own, I might join you, dependant on what language you wanna write it in - all the proxies I've tried have had some sort of failing, though ctrlproxy is working well for me atm [14:25] no0tic: still can you ask it to only show your own bans? :) [14:26] LjL, yes, I think so [14:26] Mez, i'd be very tempted to write it in PHP, since that's what i'm currently most used to, bots etc. but to work on the mobile, i need python, so i "should" write everything in python for a start, i guess [14:27] LjL, yeah, exactly goes for me, cept I dont know python [14:27] me neither [14:27] see -ot [14:28] PHP does make you write ugly code, but then it also has so many shortcuts appealing to someone who was used to C but now wants to write string handling code... [14:29] hello [14:30] hi [14:31] Seeker Can you help me to lift a ban? [14:31] what ban? [14:31] Antkin: You need to talk to the person that set the ban [14:32] LjL: Around 10am GMT in #ubuntu i believe [14:32] this morning on Ubuntu support I don't know who banned me it all happened so fast [14:32] Seeker`, perfect timing :) [14:33] I was accussed of flooding I think the BOT banned me but not sure [14:33] The ban was set by Tm_t [14:34] Tm_t? I have chatting to him/her today [14:34] Antkin: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5235/ [14:36] 10:49:02#ubuntu: < ArthurArchnix> !ops | Antkin | In the last two hours all he has done is greet people who enter the room. [14:36] Then, he tells them to google it or go post on the forums. At least two people have left [14:36] immediately after being told this before someone else could step in [14:36] So what is my next step? [14:37] Antkin: wait for tmt [14:38] How long? Why did Tm_t not mention we could sort this out? [14:39] because he's not the one that banned you [14:39] 05:16 -!- mode/#ubuntu [+b *!*@77-100-133-163.cable.ubr06.brad.blueyonder.co.uk] by Amaranth [14:39] Sorry, made a mistake [14:40] So who did ban me? [14:40] Tm_t removed, the elk.buntu removed, then amaranth banned / removed [14:41] oops.. forgot I wasn't here :) [14:43] Is amaranth here? [14:43] Amaranth is currently working [14:44] Did amaranth ban me? [14:44] Antkin: yes [14:45] So i'm waiting for amaranth now? [14:45] No, someone else handle it [14:46] Who will take up the case? [14:48] Antkin, how come you were pointed to your behavior several times but you kept on [14:50] I am not aware that I kept on, I did not mean to offend anyone [14:50] Antkin: I believe you were asked several times to stop saying "hi" to everyone that joined, as it makes too much traffic [14:51] I was asked to stop greeting people so I stopped that what is the issue? [14:51] Antkin, let me clear up a couple of things [14:51] Please do [14:55] Antkin: #ubuntu is not a place where you should offer help to anyone who comes in, without them even asking. if we all did that, the channel would be flooded. you also don't need to greet people who come in - they'll quickly realize that they're simply expected to ask their question. also, while we've certainly nothing against the ubuntu forums (or for that matter google), just telling everyone to post to the forums is no use. if you don't know the answer [14:55] to a question, don't answer. there are other people who can possibly answer the question. there is no harm in pointing someone to the forums *after* you have discussed with them and there doesn't seem to be anyone available who knows their answer, but just use common sense: again, blanket redirects are no good. also, if you're not too familiar with IRC commands, please follow your own advice and google ;) no need to paste channel topics into a channel, [14:55] for instance. [14:56] i also advise that you check each of these factoids out [14:56] !etiquette > Antkin (Antkin, see the private message from Ubotu) [14:58] OK so thats a few points to take on board anything else? [15:00] Antkin, not anything specific, but generally speaking, keep in mind #ubuntu is a very high-traffic channel, and anything that decreases the signal to noise ratio is mostly not welcome. [15:03] Are we more concerned about what decreases the signal to noise ratio is mostly not welcome. Or are we concerned about helping visitors out withe their problems. Do not try and confuse the issue with technical garbage [15:04] Antkin, greeting everyone and telling them to use the forums and stuff (each suggestion on a separate line, why not!) doesn't help anyone. [15:05] Antkin: support options are in the channel topic. most people will look at the channel topic when they join. you don't need to repeat the information to each of them unless they ask. [15:06] I disagree most people ignore the channel topic, they just want help surely the is the primary objective of the channel [15:07] erm, okay [15:07] *Most* people who have come to #ubuntu are aware that there are other support options out there, but they prefer the 'live' support that IRC gives them, rather than posting on a forum and waiting. [15:08] Antkin: [15:08] Yes I'm still here [15:08] [10:31] Ububegin Have you posted your question on Ubuntu forums? [10:31] Is there any chance to change the charset from utf-8 to iso-8859-15 ? [10:31] lastman Have you posted your question on Ubuntu forums? [10:32] dude enough with the forums [10:32] not yet [10:32] Antkin: but this is a simple question [10:33] lastman Please post there first then come back to IRC [15:09] this is just a snipped of your continued behavior, and the reactions to it [15:09] if you don't see why that's not a smart way to give help, then you probably want to help in some other place [15:10] Antkin: As you stated, help is the primary objective of the channel, not redirecting them to other places when there are >1000 people in the channel that may be able to answer them [15:13] i have been on that channel for hours for the last three days, yes I know it has 1200-1400 visitors. Yet very few take part in the channel when I'm on at least a newbie gets a greating and an offer for help. I'm so fast at posting messages sometime people think I am a bot [15:14] -_________- [15:14] Antkin, it's not an offer for help though, it's a "go away and ask somewhere else" [15:15] But with potentially hundreds of people joining an hour, sending each of them "hi" and "look at the forums" results in hundreds of lines of unneccesary traffic, neither of which actually help the person [15:15] Antkin: Why do you redirect them to the forums? [15:15] People don't have to leave the channel to post on the forums the just open a browser all the time the channel is available to them do you understand the issue you are not losing customers [15:16] I ask them if they have posted on the forum some have some have not [15:16] I *hate* the forums [15:16] But people assume that as you are telling them to ask on the forums that they wont getany help on IRC [15:17] Antkin: Thats because they want to get support *here* not on the forums. [15:17] Antkin, so what? there is no requirement that they should post to the forums before asking on IRC, contrary to what you have been telling them. [15:17] Myrtti: +1 [15:17] I'm the moderator on too many forums to like them a bit [15:17] Myrtti: +1 (even if I am Kubuntu forums admin) [15:17] Forums are good for the newbie they are a wealth of information, there are many guides there I have writen one myself [15:18] Antkin: the correct way of using the information there is the following: [15:18] Antkin, again, so what? IRC is "good for a newbie" too. do you see the forums advertizing IRC all the time in a blanket way? [15:18] Antkin: But what about th epeople that dont like the forums - with IRC you get an instant response, with the forums you may be waiting for hours [15:18] 1) try to help them on irc, if you can't help them EVEN by searching stuff from the forums *THEN* guide them there [15:19] Antkin: What would happen if the first response to every forum post was "Go and ask on IRC first" [15:19] 2) if they've already posted there, they certainly will give you the url to the thread [15:19] Antkin: People would just be bounced back and forth between the two [15:19] why is there this huge forum vs IRC backlog? [15:19] I'm guessing I should look away for personal health [15:19] jdong: I'm considering the same [15:19] jdong: huh? [15:19] Ubuntu needs both forums and IRC they both help newbies [15:20] jdong: go, while you can [15:20] Antkin: yes? [15:20] jdong, don't worry ;) [15:20] * Mez hugs jdong [15:20] jdong, this isn't a forums vs IRC argument, although i suspect "someone" really wants to steer it that way, at the end of the day. [15:20] Myrtti, I hate the forums too - but I have a valid and rational reason [15:20] * Jucato hugs jdong too [15:20] Mez: because I'm there. [15:21] * PriceChild looks in [15:21] Antkin: By redirecting people to the forums first, you are "depriving" them of the help from IRC. As was pointed out in the original ops call, at least 2 people quit IRC to go and ask on the forums on your advice [15:21] jdong, nope... cause I see forums for 40 hours a week... [15:21] Antkin, i've reviewed most of what you said in #ubuntu, and basically there is NO Ubuntu-specific help you've given. all you've done is "hi" "do you have a question?" "have you asked on the forums?" "ask on the forums first". that is simply ridiculous, and this debate is getting pointless. [15:21] all forums, all the time [15:21] lo PriceChild [15:21] please abide by our view of how the channel should be used, if you want to use the channel. [15:22] for the record, after reading the backlog I think LjL just summed it up perfectly [15:22] and NOW... I'm gone. [15:25] My case is very simple I do not encourage people to close their IRC program, I encourage them to open a browser and visit the forum one they have done the IRC is still available because they never left it the first place. Like I said your are not losing customer, have any off you ever done customer service or worked in business for yourself. If so you would value your visitor. At the end of... [15:26] ...the day it a service. [15:26] Antkin: I don't think it needs to be incessantly said to visit the forums or any other support medium. One should assume users are smart enough to seek out alternative forms of help [15:26] Antkin, I have worked in a business myself, I have done customer service. [15:26] Antkin, i disagree, and have explained why. i think it's time to drop this discussion. [15:26] all of which are clearly documented in the Firefox start page and System menu [15:27] Antkin, think of it this way, IRC is like a phone call... If a customer phones you, would you say - "have you sent us a letter"? [15:27] Good then I hope you know exactly what I am talking about [15:27] Antkin, by joining the channel, they've expressed their wish to communicate and ask for help through IRC as a medium [15:27] Mez: isn't it "Have you opened an RT ticket?" :) [15:28] jdong, :) [15:28] jdong, or that [15:28] if I call a customer service, they can all go to hell if they ask me have I sent a letter [15:28] In addition just because *you* prefer to ask on the forums before IRC doesnt mean that *everyone* feels the same way. [15:28] Drop the discussion that is the easy way out the is here is are you going to lift the ban and give your visitor the service they expect? [15:28] the infamous CS bounce-around-transfer... everyone hates that treatment. [15:28] Antkin, the ban has been lifted a dozen of minutes ago. [15:29] Antkin: they are getting the service they expect as we speak [15:29] Antkin: however, you have been explained the behavior we expect from you. and no, i haven't changed my mind since. please act accordingly. [15:29] jdong: I spent all last week getting thrown through tech support phone mazes. Ugh. [15:29] We have something in the guidelines which is roughly 'no help is better than bad help' don't we? [15:29] PriceChild: i think we quite do. [15:29] PriceChild: I think so, and if we don't we have the 'listen to the ops' clause. [15:30] Canonical offers commercial support, and if people don't want to use it, they can freely choose to use IRC, forums, mailing lists, whatever [15:30] Usenet :p [15:30] !guidelines > Antkin [15:30] Antkin: read the "When helping: be helpful" bit [15:30] if their problems aren't answered in IRC, then it is mostly in their own responsibility to find another way of getting help, not our duty to jam it down their throats [15:31] At long last somebody has taken the time to say the ban was lifted. Yet do you understand I the customer was not informed by you Ubuntu. I only got the informatiomation by pressing you, even then it was 12 minutes late. [15:31] by US UBUNTU?! [15:31] !patience [15:31] The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines [15:31] Antkin: we are all just users. [15:31] Antkin: We're all volunteers [15:31] I want a RAISE!!!111oneone [15:31] an eeepc with xubuntu would be nice [15:32] !pony | Myrtti [15:32] Sorry, I don't know anything about pony - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [15:32] :/ [15:32] noooo I want a pooonyyy [15:32] Myrtti: I'm sure they will give you a 1000% payrise [15:32] !-pony [15:32] yay \o/ [15:32] !search pony [15:32] Found: pony*, pony-#ubuntu-offtopic [15:32] guess you can only not have a pony in -offtopic [15:32] !pony-#ubuntu-offtopic | Myrtti [15:32] Myrtti: No, you can't have a pony. And there is no yesterday. [15:33] !cake [15:33] Sorry, I don't know anything about cake - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [15:33] !search cake [15:33] Found: cake-#ubuntu-offtopic [15:33] !opsnack [15:33] Chocolate! And Peanuts! [15:33] !cake-#ubuntu-offtopic [15:33] The cake is a lie. [15:33] I am a user myself and a volunteer IT tutor i teach computers to pensioners and understand their computer fears [15:33] yay! [15:33] Antkin: relax [15:33] * jpatrick _hates_ the !opsnack fact, as it triggers he's emergency hilights [15:33] jpatrick: same here [15:34] jpatrick: I was just going to say that too [15:34] jpatrick: why? [15:34] Seeker`: *!ops*nack [15:34] Seeker`: I have ! asdfhasdfj ops, on hilight [15:34] emergency hilight for what, precisely? [15:34] Antkin: calling us volunteers, I was trying to infer we are not more than you. Its not a competition. [15:34] jpatrick, ^!ops($| .*) [15:34] why not do it as a regex [15:34] no0tic: in case ubotu fails [15:34] as !ops [15:34] o my [15:34] Seeker`: grr... [15:34] eheh [15:34] Seeker`, one step ahead of you ;) [15:35] *trööt* [15:35] Mez: I dont have that because some people don't know how to use the bot properly or get exicted when theres trouble and mistype [15:35] jpatrick: why do you grrr at me? [15:35] Be the best you can [15:35] /me gives everyone a lollipop [15:35] ooh, lolly! [15:35] If a job is woth doing it is worth doing well [15:35] Seeker`: you set off the trigger :) [15:35] jpatrick: et a better regex then :P [15:35] s/et/get/ [15:36] Pici, *shrugs* I like it that way ;) it works better for me ... regex ftw [15:36] Antkin: do you have any further inquiries for us? [15:36] Antkin: doing it well means that you try to help them on irc first if on irc and if it fails, then direct the customer to another medium [15:36] Mez: that work? [15:36] I do wish xchat's highlighting didn't suck. [15:36] case closed [15:36] jpatrick, did what work ? [15:36] /me licks her cherry lollipop [15:36] Mez: the ops($| .*) thing [15:36] IRSSI FTW [15:36] sorry :-< [15:37] jpatrick, yup... [15:37] Myrtti: What are you apologising for? [15:37] !caps | Myrtti :P [15:37] Myrtti :P: PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too. [15:37] !staff [15:37] Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary, I could use a bit of your time :) [15:37] --- [Agenomotozg] (n=Agenomot@202.125.143.66) : Agenomotozg [15:37] No I just want to get back to helping people and leave the Ubuntu dinosoar alone. [15:37] that linux dalnet spammer [15:37] oh noes [15:37] bye [15:37] Antkin: have fun [15:37] ta-ta [15:38] What is an Ubuntu Dinosaur? [15:38] where is my bot [15:38] floodbot flipped out [15:38] LjL, he left you [15:39] Pici: I'm wondering what a dinosoar is [15:39] Pici, I think he might mean konqi ? [15:39] Amaranth, not that bot [15:39] http://www.kubuntu.org/images/konqis.png [15:39] *doing* [15:39] Mez: creepy [15:39] LjL: ? [15:40] bantracker trick. [15:40] ngg [15:41] Seeker`: It registers that there was a kick, and thus grabs some logs for the channel and sticks it on the bantracker. [15:41] ah, cool [15:41] you learn something new every day [15:41] Oh, I thought that URL was going to be the konq and konqi getting married at the KDE4 release event [15:41] sadly, my thing for the day was IRC related again :( [15:41] some furries in costumes [15:42] As opposed to furries not in costumes? [15:42] irc is a scary place [15:42] wtf, i enabled the vmware tools modules and my disk speed went down [15:42] Pici: They dont always have costumes on [15:42] * Pici closes his eyes in horror [15:43] Pici: :P I meant sometimes they wear normal clothes [15:43] oh. [15:43] Still. [15:43] i assume ot are talking about uncensored... [15:44] I'm not assuming anything until they ask specifically. [15:44] anyone know where i can download the vmware tools iso? [15:44] with emma idling? [15:44] mine is broken and open-vm-tools makes my VM slower [15:44] LjL: what was that it youtube video about? [15:44] LjL: he did the same link in #kde [15:45] jpatrick: i've no idea, but he did the same thing yesterday, in both #ubuntu and -ot [15:45] And in #defocus, and #freenode [15:45] mental [15:45] !staff | Lollo is spamming a Youtube link in several channels [15:45] Hes LjL's buddy [15:45] He's close to a kline [15:45] Lollo is spamming a Youtube link in several channels: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary, I could use a bit of your time :) [15:46] LjL, also in #freenode [15:47] Lollo again? [15:47] And back at it again... [15:47] it's a stupid compiz video [15:47] I was expecting something more trollish. [15:48] me too [15:48] or at least a rickroll [15:48] rickroll? [15:48] Seeker`: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 [15:48] Its stupid. [15:48] are you getting pm spam from Agenomotozg? [15:49] TheSheep: I already reported it [15:49] TheSheep: Yes, I pasted the ident@host in #freenode [15:49] Amaranth: ok, thanks [15:50] gah, firefox died downloading vmware server [15:51] Amaranth: why the hell did you use firefox to do it? [15:51] wget? [15:51] curl? (kidding) [15:51] jdong: i likes mah gooey [15:53] Amaranth: that video is shocking [15:53] Amaranth: that's what SHE said. [15:54] Seeker`: yes [15:54] cool, i was the first person to rickroll Seeker` [15:54]