[02:08] <band4life> I have returned after my 9 or 10 day expulsion.  May I please be allowed to join #ubuntu?
[02:08] <Seeker`> band4life: Who asked you to come back after 9 or 10 days?
[02:08] <band4life> I believe it was Nalioth.  not 100 percent though
[02:08] <nalioth> Seeker`: i did.
[02:08] <nalioth> band4life: you'll need to speak to LjL 
[02:09] <band4life> is ljl here?
[02:09] <Seeker`> I believe that LjL has gone to bed
[02:09] <band4life> does ljl frequent here in the sunshine hours?
[02:09] <band4life> tomorrow perhaps?
[02:10] <Seeker`> band4life: depends on what you count as the sunshine hours
[02:10] <nalioth> band4life: i'm sorry to disillusion you, but the world doesn't revolve around you
[02:10] <band4life> nalioth to i seem to be under some sort of spell?
[02:10] <band4life> do you take me for some ignorant fool?
[02:11] <band4life> nalioth farewell my fair weather friend
[02:13] <Seeker`> I get the feeling that he wont be unbanned any time soon
[06:05] <band4life> LjL?
[06:16] <band4life> am I booted from all of the rooms?  or just #ubuntu?
[06:16] <band4life> cuz i kinda get the feeling that im gettin shrugged
[09:33] <elkbuntu> nalioth, that's an interesting ident that band4life chap has
[09:34] <Seeker`> its an interesting spelling of banned too
[09:35] <elkbuntu> Seeker`, i think that's him trying to be clever
[09:35] <elkbuntu> as is his ident
[09:35] <Seeker`> "look at me, i'm so clever I cant spell banned"?
[09:35] <Seeker`> he probably chnaged it to try and get round the ban, and left it like that when it didn't work
[09:37] <elkbuntu> Seeker`, no probably about it
[09:38] <Seeker`> I get the impression that he probably wont be unbanned for a while
[09:43] <ubotu> ArthurArchnix called the ops in #ubuntu (Antkin | In the last two hours all he has done is greet people who enter the room. Then, he tells them to google it or go post on the forums. At least two people have left immediately after being told this before someone else could step in.)
[09:45] <ubotu> hwilde called the ops in #ubuntu ()
[10:01] <Seeker`> IRC really makes you question whether humans are really that clever
[10:08] <ubotu> Lynoure called the ops in #kubuntu ()
[10:09] <elkbuntu> Amaranth, are you monitoring antkin?
[10:10] <Amaranth> crap, i got sidetracked by an email
[10:11] <elkbuntu> just removed him for pastin
[10:11] <Amaranth> Yeah, if I would have seen I would have just booted him when he started saying hi to everyone that joined again
[10:12] <elkbuntu> i'm quite sporadically laggy atm
[10:14] <elkbuntu> Amaranth, he's back
[10:14] <Amaranth> alright, i'll see if he does anything for a couple minutes here
[10:17] <Amaranth> And that's the end of that
[10:17] <elkbuntu> total troll, imho
[10:22] <Amaranth> yep
[10:22] <Amaranth> either that or clueless guy
[10:22] <Amaranth> either way we don't want them
[10:32] <Tm_T> spammer on the loose: daba [n=daba@83-131-31-115.adsl.net.t-com.hr]
[10:33] <elkbuntu> Tm_T, dalnet?
[10:33] <Tm_T> elkbuntu: dalnet? dunno about dalnet but this guy hit #kubuntu and #kde-devel with spamflood already, dunno others
[10:34] <elkbuntu> ah ok. there's been a serial PM spammer on the loose on an off for the past few months spamming various linux channels on dalnet
[10:34] <Tm_T> no
[10:34] <Tm_T> 1231.51 < daba> http://tipovidaba.bloger.hr/
[11:30] <jussi01> GazzaK: wheres Gary?
[11:31] <jussi01> Oakbox: How can we help you?
[11:32] <Tm_T> jussi01: ^^
[11:33] <jussi01> Tm_T: gahh, forward that guy here if you want, complete pita, has no Idea how to act on irc. :(
[11:36] <Oakbox> ah sorry im actuly after someone who can help my with QT4 colours as my have been mucked up :(
[11:36] <Myrtti> /me hugs elkbuntu
[11:37] <Tm_T> Oakbox: sorry, this channel is not for support, #kubuntu-kde4 might be a good start, or #kde :))
[11:38] <Oakbox> Tm_T: ta :)
[11:38] <Tm_T> Oakbox: and good luck son :)
[11:43] <Gary> jussi01: hehe
[11:48] <jussi01> PriceChild: ping, when you have a moment. 
[11:48] <PriceChild> pong
[11:49] <jussi01> PriceChild: may I pm for a moment?
[11:50] <PriceChild> sure
[11:52] <Myrtti> I miss my phone :-<
[11:53]  * jussi01 huggles Myrtti 
[11:53] <Tm_T>  n=MeriChah@116.71.177.192 (freenode)
[11:53] <Tm_T> 1348.48 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with MeriChahat_
[11:53] <Tm_T> 1348.48 <MeriChahat_> ##Linux (with ##) on Dalnet needs some good company and good channel operators. type /server irc.dal.net (or /connect
[11:53] <Tm_T>                       irc.dal.net) and join ##Linux. More flexible, more firendly Be there for some time..
[11:53] <Tm_T> bahhhh
[11:53] <Tm_T> sorry for flooding
[11:53] <Myrtti> Tm_T: you hit the jackpot
[11:54] <Tm_T> Myrtti: I always do
[12:03] <Antkin> Hello
[12:05] <Antkin> I have been banned from Ubuntu Support IRC this morning can you help me?
[12:06] <jussi01> Antkin: you will need to wait for the operator who banned you
[12:07] <Antkin> OK how long will that take?
[12:07] <jussi01> Antkin: Im not sure. do you know who banned you?
[12:09] <Hobbsee> @btlogin
[12:09] <Antkin> No, I think I flooded the channel by accident and got banned by the BOT
[12:16] <Antkin> jussi01 are you still here?
[12:44] <Tm_T> Hobbsee: jussi01: he is "green", and bit jumpy pushy ;)
[12:44] <Hobbsee> right...
[12:45] <Tm_T> greeting everyone and then pointing them to forums, for example
[12:45] <jussi01> hrmmm
[12:48]  * jussi01 cries
[12:48] <Tm_T> funny son
[14:18] <jpatrick> LjL: does your client not allow you remove bans all at once?
[14:18] <LjL> jpatrick: only if i type them in manually
[14:18] <LjL> not by multiple selection
[14:18] <jpatrick> LjL: I usually do: /mode -b foo@bar -b whatever..
[14:18]  * Mez slaps LjL 
[14:19] <LjL> jpatrick: which would be /mode -bbbb a b c d, strictly speaking, although your version works.
[14:19] <LjL> but i'm lazy and prefer to go to the bans list, filter by "ljl", and click.
[14:19] <no0tic> LjL, /unban ## ## ## (where ##s stand for ban number)
[14:19] <Mez> LjL, your ctcp version is annoying, what client do you use?
[14:19] <LjL> no0tic: sorted by date, hopefully?
[14:20] <no0tic> LjL, good morning though
[14:20] <LjL> Mez: my VERSION reply is that way because i've too often been crippled by CTCP attacks... i'm on konversation
[14:20] <LjL> no0tic: thanks, but strangely i woke up hours ago today
[14:20] <Mez> LjL, no I know, which is why I just dont respond to one ;)
[14:21] <no0tic> LjL, uhm, sorted by "I don't know what"
[14:21] <LjL> Mez: unfortunately konversation is too stubborn to allow that
[14:21] <LjL> no0tic: sounds useful
[14:21] <Mez> LjL, I wouldnt know - for some reason, even as a KDE afficianado, I cannot stand it's messaging programs
[14:21] <LjL> Mez: still, an empty reply is less likely to result in an excess flood. i should solve this in a better way anyhow
[14:21] <LjL> which is why i should write a decent proxy
[14:21] <LjL> which is why i should use python as i mentioned in -ot
[14:22] <LjL> well no, the reason i should use python is because i want to interface it to my mobile, and there's only python on it
[14:22] <Seeker`> LjL: Did you seew hat Band4life was looking for you?
[14:22] <Mez> LjL, what about ctrl_proxy ? It's actually a rather good one
[14:22] <LjL> Seeker`: i saw i got a PM from him
[14:23] <no0tic> LjL, checked out, they are sorted by date & type
[14:23] <Seeker`> LjL: ah, cool
[14:24] <LjL> Mez: i think i've tried it but been put off by something. don't remember what exactly, since i've tried a few... i think i had "bip" in the queue to (re)try next. what i'm looking for is *good* logging (timestamps with seconds, for a start, and no "X has quit" being broadcast in *all* channels), auto-/away when i detach and /away off when i reattach, auto "i'm away" message when someone PMs me, and no surprises. but i also would like to write my own 
[14:24] <LjL> because of things like, well, handling CTCP floods, and interfacing with mobile
[14:24] <LjL> no0tic: type?
[14:25] <no0tic> LjL, yes, bans first, quiets last, each group sorted by date (newer first)
[14:25] <LjL> no0tic: strange that it knows about quiets
[14:25] <Mez> LjL, If you're interested in writing your own, I might join you, dependant on what language you wanna write it in - all the proxies I've tried have had some sort of failing, though ctrlproxy is working well for me atm
[14:25] <LjL> no0tic: still can you ask it to only show your own bans? :)
[14:26] <no0tic> LjL, yes, I think so 
[14:26] <LjL> Mez, i'd be very tempted to write it in PHP, since that's what i'm currently most used to, bots etc. but to work on the mobile, i need python, so i "should" write everything in python for a start, i guess
[14:27] <Mez> LjL, yeah, exactly goes for me, cept I dont know python
[14:27] <LjL> me neither
[14:27] <LjL> see -ot
[14:28] <LjL> PHP does make you write ugly code, but then it also has so many shortcuts appealing to someone who was used to C but now wants to write string handling code...
[14:29] <Antkin> hello
[14:30] <Seeker`> hi
[14:31] <Antkin> Seeker Can you help me to lift a ban?
[14:31] <LjL> what ban?
[14:31] <Seeker`> Antkin: You need to talk to the person that set the ban
[14:32] <Seeker`> LjL: Around 10am GMT in #ubuntu i believe
[14:32] <Antkin> this morning on Ubuntu support I don't know who banned me it all happened so fast
[14:32] <no0tic> Seeker`, perfect timing :)
[14:33] <Antkin> I was accussed of flooding I think the BOT banned me but not sure
[14:33] <Seeker`> The ban was set by Tm_t
[14:34] <Antkin> Tm_t? I have chatting to him/her today
[14:34] <jpatrick> Antkin: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/5235/
[14:36] <Antkin> 10:49:02#ubuntu: < ArthurArchnix> !ops | Antkin | In the last two hours all he has done is greet people who enter the room.
[14:36] <Antkin>                                   Then, he tells them to google it or go post on the forums. At least two people have left
[14:36] <Antkin>                                   immediately after being told this before someone else could step in
[14:36] <Antkin> So what is my next step?
[14:37] <jpatrick> Antkin: wait for tmt
[14:38] <Antkin> How long? Why did Tm_t not mention we could sort this out?
[14:39] <credible> because he's not the one that banned you
[14:39] <credible> 05:16 -!- mode/#ubuntu [+b *!*@77-100-133-163.cable.ubr06.brad.blueyonder.co.uk] by Amaranth
[14:39] <Seeker`> Sorry, made a mistake
[14:40] <Antkin> So who did ban me?
[14:40] <Seeker`> Tm_t removed, the elk.buntu removed, then amaranth banned  / removed
[14:41] <Jucato> oops.. forgot I wasn't here :)
[14:43] <Antkin> Is amaranth here?
[14:43] <Amaranth> Amaranth is currently working
[14:44] <Antkin> Did amaranth ban me?
[14:44] <Seeker`> Antkin: yes
[14:45] <Antkin> So i'm waiting for amaranth now?
[14:45] <Amaranth> No, someone else handle it
[14:46] <Antkin> Who will take up the case?
[14:48] <LjL> Antkin, how come you were pointed to your behavior several times but you kept on
[14:50] <Antkin> I am not aware that I kept on, I did not mean to offend anyone
[14:50] <Seeker`> Antkin: I believe you were asked several times to stop saying "hi" to everyone that joined, as it makes too much traffic
[14:51] <Antkin> I was asked to stop greeting people so I stopped that what is the issue?
[14:51] <LjL> Antkin, let me clear up a couple of things
[14:51] <Antkin> Please do
[14:55] <LjL> Antkin: #ubuntu is not a place where you should offer help to anyone who comes in, without them even asking. if we all did that, the channel would be flooded. you also don't need to greet people who come in - they'll quickly realize that they're simply expected to ask their question. also, while we've certainly nothing against the ubuntu forums (or for that matter google), just telling everyone to post to the forums is no use. if you don't know the answer 
[14:55] <LjL> to a question, don't answer. there are other people who can possibly answer the question. there is no harm in pointing someone to the forums *after* you have discussed with them and there doesn't seem to be anyone available who knows their answer, but just use common sense: again, blanket redirects are no good. also, if you're not too familiar with IRC commands, please follow your own advice and google ;) no need to paste channel topics into a channel, 
[14:55] <LjL> for instance.
[14:56] <LjL> i also advise that you check each of these factoids out
[14:56] <LjL> !etiquette > Antkin    (Antkin, see the private message from Ubotu)
[14:58] <Antkin> OK so thats a few points to take on board anything else?
[15:00] <LjL> Antkin, not anything specific, but generally speaking, keep in mind #ubuntu is a very high-traffic channel, and anything that decreases the signal to noise ratio is mostly not welcome.
[15:03] <Antkin> Are we more concerned about what decreases the signal to noise ratio is mostly not welcome. Or are we concerned about helping visitors out withe their problems. Do not try and confuse the issue with technical garbage
[15:04] <LjL> Antkin, greeting everyone and telling them to use the forums and stuff (each suggestion on a separate line, why not!) doesn't help anyone.
[15:05] <LjL> Antkin: support options are in the channel topic. most people will look at the channel topic when they join. you don't need to repeat the information to each of them unless they ask.
[15:06] <Antkin> I disagree most people ignore the channel topic, they just want help surely the is the primary objective of the channel 
[15:07] <Myrtti> erm, okay
[15:07] <Pici> *Most* people who have come to #ubuntu are aware that there are other support options out there, but they prefer the 'live' support that IRC gives them, rather than posting on a forum and waiting.
[15:08] <LjL> Antkin:
[15:08] <Antkin> Yes I'm still here
[15:08] <LjL> [10:31] <Antkin> Ububegin Have you posted your question on Ubuntu forums? [10:31] <lastman> Is there any chance to change the charset from utf-8 to iso-8859-15 ? [10:31] <Antkin> lastman Have you posted your question on Ubuntu forums? [10:32] <hwilde> dude enough with the forums [10:32] <lastman> not yet [10:32] <lastman> Antkin: but this is a simple question [10:33] <Antkin> lastman Please post there first then come back to IRC
[15:09] <LjL> this is just a snipped of your continued behavior, and the reactions to it
[15:09] <LjL> if you don't see why that's not a smart way to give help, then you probably want to help in some other place
[15:10] <Seeker`> Antkin: As you stated, help is the primary objective of the channel, not redirecting them to other places when there are >1000 people in the channel that may be able to answer them
[15:13] <Antkin> i have been on that channel for hours for the last three days, yes I know it has 1200-1400 visitors. Yet very few take part in the channel when I'm on at least a newbie gets a greating and an offer for help. I'm so fast at posting messages sometime people think I am a bot 
[15:14] <Myrtti> -_________-
[15:14] <Mez> Antkin, it's not an offer for help though, it's a "go away and ask somewhere else"
[15:15] <Seeker`> But with potentially hundreds of people joining an hour, sending each of them "hi" and "look at the forums" results in hundreds of lines of unneccesary traffic, neither of which actually help the person
[15:15] <Seeker`> Antkin: Why do you redirect them to the forums?
[15:15] <Antkin> People don't have to leave the channel to post on the forums the just open a browser all the time the channel is available to them do you understand the issue you are not losing customers
[15:16] <Antkin> I ask them if they have posted on the forum some have some have not
[15:16] <Myrtti> I *hate* the forums
[15:16] <Seeker`> But people assume that as you are telling them to ask on the forums that they wont getany help on IRC
[15:17] <Pici> Antkin: Thats because they want to get support *here* not on the forums.
[15:17] <LjL> Antkin, so what? there is no requirement that they should post to the forums before asking on IRC, contrary to what you have been telling them.
[15:17] <Seeker`> Myrtti: +1
[15:17] <Myrtti> I'm the moderator on too many forums to like them a bit
[15:17] <jpatrick> Myrtti: +1 (even if I am Kubuntu forums admin)
[15:17] <Antkin> Forums are good for the newbie they are a wealth of information, there are many guides there I have writen one myself
[15:18] <Myrtti> Antkin: the correct way of using the information there is the following:
[15:18] <LjL> Antkin, again, so what? IRC is "good for a newbie" too. do you see the forums advertizing IRC all the time in a blanket way?
[15:18] <Seeker`> Antkin: But what about th epeople that dont like the forums - with IRC you get an instant response, with the forums you may be waiting for hours
[15:18] <Myrtti> 1) try to help them on irc, if you can't help them EVEN by searching stuff from the forums *THEN* guide them there
[15:19] <Seeker`> Antkin: What would happen if the first response to every forum post was "Go and ask on IRC first"
[15:19] <Myrtti> 2) if they've already posted there, they certainly will give you the url to the thread
[15:19] <Seeker`> Antkin: People would just be bounced back and forth between the two
[15:19] <jdong> why is there this huge forum vs IRC backlog?
[15:19] <jdong> I'm guessing I should look away for personal health
[15:19] <Myrtti> jdong: I'm considering the same
[15:19] <Seeker`> jdong: huh?
[15:19] <Antkin> Ubuntu needs both forums and IRC they both help newbies
[15:20] <jussi01> jdong: go, while you can
[15:20] <Myrtti> Antkin: yes?
[15:20] <Mez> jdong, don't worry ;)
[15:20]  * Mez hugs jdong
[15:20] <LjL> jdong, this isn't a forums vs IRC argument, although i suspect "someone" really wants to steer it that way, at the end of the day.
[15:20] <Mez> Myrtti, I hate the forums too - but I have a valid and rational reason
[15:20]  * Jucato hugs jdong too
[15:20] <jdong> Mez: because I'm there.
[15:21]  * PriceChild looks in
[15:21] <Seeker`> Antkin: By redirecting people to the forums first, you are "depriving" them of the help from IRC. As was pointed out in the original ops call, at least 2 people quit IRC to go and ask on the forums on your advice
[15:21] <Mez> jdong, nope... cause I see forums for 40 hours a week...
[15:21] <LjL> Antkin, i've reviewed most of what you said in #ubuntu, and basically there is NO Ubuntu-specific help you've given. all you've done is "hi" "do you have a question?" "have you asked on the forums?" "ask on the forums first". that is simply ridiculous, and this debate is getting pointless.
[15:21] <Mez> all forums, all the time
[15:21] <Seeker`> lo PriceChild 
[15:21] <LjL> please abide by our view of how the channel should be used, if you want to use the channel.
[15:22] <jdong> for the record, after reading the backlog I think LjL just summed it up perfectly
[15:22] <jdong> and NOW... I'm gone.
[15:25] <Antkin> My case is very simple I do not encourage people to close their IRC program, I encourage them to open a browser and visit the forum one they have done the IRC is still available because they never left it the first place. Like I said your are not losing customer, have any off you ever done customer service or worked in business for yourself. If so you would value your visitor. At the end of...
[15:26] <Antkin> ...the day it a service. 
[15:26] <jdong> Antkin: I don't think it needs to be incessantly said to visit the forums or any other support medium. One should assume users are smart enough to seek out alternative forms of help
[15:26] <Mez> Antkin, I have worked in a business myself, I have done customer service.
[15:26] <LjL> Antkin, i disagree, and have explained why. i think it's time to drop this discussion.
[15:26] <jdong> all of which are clearly documented in the Firefox start page and System menu
[15:27] <Mez> Antkin, think of it this way, IRC is like a phone call... If a customer phones you, would you say - "have you sent us a letter"?
[15:27] <Antkin> Good then I hope you know exactly what I am talking about
[15:27] <Mez> Antkin, by joining the channel, they've expressed their wish to communicate and ask for help through IRC as a medium
[15:27] <jdong> Mez: isn't it "Have you opened an RT ticket?" :)
[15:28] <no0tic> jdong, :)
[15:28] <Mez> jdong, or that
[15:28] <Myrtti> if I call a customer service, they can all go to hell if they ask me have I sent a letter
[15:28] <Pici> In addition just because *you* prefer to ask on the forums before IRC doesnt mean that *everyone* feels the same way.
[15:28] <Antkin> Drop the discussion that is the easy way out the is here is are you going to lift the ban and give your visitor the service they expect?
[15:28] <jdong> the infamous CS bounce-around-transfer... everyone hates that treatment.
[15:28] <LjL> Antkin, the ban has been lifted a dozen of minutes ago.
[15:29] <Myrtti> Antkin: they are getting the service they expect as we speak
[15:29] <LjL> Antkin: however, you have been explained the behavior we expect from you. and no, i haven't changed my mind since. please act accordingly.
[15:29] <Pici> jdong: I spent all last week getting thrown through tech support phone mazes. Ugh.
[15:29] <PriceChild> We have something in the guidelines which is roughly 'no help is better than bad help' don't we?
[15:29] <LjL> PriceChild: i think we quite do.
[15:29] <Pici> PriceChild: I think so, and if we don't we have the 'listen to the ops' clause.
[15:30] <Myrtti> Canonical offers commercial support, and if people don't want to use it, they can freely choose to use IRC, forums, mailing lists, whatever
[15:30] <Pici> Usenet :p
[15:30] <PriceChild> !guidelines > Antkin 
[15:30] <PriceChild> Antkin: read the "When helping: be helpful" bit
[15:30] <Myrtti> if their problems aren't answered in IRC, then it is mostly in their own responsibility to find another way of getting help, not our duty to jam it down their throats
[15:31] <Antkin> At long last somebody has taken the time to say the ban was lifted. Yet do you understand I the customer was not informed by you Ubuntu. I only got the informatiomation by pressing you, even then it was 12 minutes late.
[15:31] <Myrtti> by US UBUNTU?!
[15:31] <LjL> !patience
[15:31] <ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[15:31] <PriceChild> Antkin: we are all just users.
[15:31] <Pici> Antkin: We're all volunteers
[15:31] <Myrtti> I want a RAISE!!!111oneone
[15:31] <Myrtti> an eeepc with xubuntu would be nice
[15:32] <PriceChild> !pony | Myrtti 
[15:32] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about pony - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[15:32] <PriceChild> :/
[15:32] <Myrtti> noooo I want a pooonyyy
[15:32] <Seeker`> Myrtti: I'm sure they will give you a 1000% payrise
[15:32] <PriceChild> !-pony
[15:32] <Myrtti> yay \o/
[15:32] <PriceChild> !search pony
[15:32] <ubotu> Found: pony*, pony-#ubuntu-offtopic
[15:32] <PriceChild> guess you can only not have a pony in -offtopic
[15:32] <jpatrick> !pony-#ubuntu-offtopic | Myrtti 
[15:32] <ubotu> Myrtti: No, you can't have a pony. And there is no yesterday.
[15:33] <Seeker`> !cake
[15:33] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about cake - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[15:33] <Seeker`> !search cake
[15:33] <ubotu> Found: cake-#ubuntu-offtopic
[15:33] <Myrtti> !opsnack
[15:33] <ubotu> Chocolate!  And Peanuts!
[15:33] <Seeker`> !cake-#ubuntu-offtopic
[15:33] <ubotu> The cake is a lie.
[15:33] <Antkin> I am a user myself and a volunteer IT tutor i teach computers to pensioners and understand their computer fears
[15:33] <Seeker`> yay!
[15:33] <Myrtti> Antkin: relax
[15:33]  * jpatrick _hates_ the !opsnack fact, as it triggers he's emergency hilights
[15:33] <LjL> jpatrick: same here
[15:34] <Pici> jpatrick: I was just going to say that too
[15:34] <Seeker`> jpatrick: why?
[15:34] <Pici> Seeker`: *!ops*nack
[15:34] <jpatrick> Seeker`: I have ! asdfhasdfj ops, on hilight
[15:34] <no0tic> emergency hilight for what, precisely?
[15:34] <PriceChild> Antkin: calling us volunteers, I was trying to infer we are not more than you. Its not a competition.
[15:34] <Mez> jpatrick, ^!ops($| .*)
[15:34] <Seeker`> why not do it as a regex
[15:34] <jpatrick> no0tic: in case ubotu fails
[15:34] <Seeker`> as !ops<whitespace>
[15:34] <no0tic> o my
[15:34] <jpatrick> Seeker`: grr...
[15:34] <no0tic> eheh
[15:34] <Mez> Seeker`, one step ahead of you ;)
[15:35] <Myrtti> *trööt*
[15:35] <Pici> Mez: I dont have that because some people don't know how to use the bot properly or get exicted when theres trouble and mistype
[15:35] <Seeker`> jpatrick: why do you grrr at me?
[15:35] <Antkin> Be the best you can
[15:35] <Myrtti> /me gives everyone a lollipop
[15:35] <Pici> ooh, lolly!
[15:35] <Antkin> If a job is woth doing it is worth doing well
[15:35] <jpatrick> Seeker`: you set off the trigger :)
[15:35] <Seeker`> jpatrick: et a better regex then :P
[15:35] <Seeker`> s/et/get/
[15:36] <Mez> Pici, *shrugs* I like it that way ;) it works better for me ... regex ftw
[15:36] <LjL> Antkin: do you have any further inquiries for us?
[15:36] <Myrtti> Antkin: doing it well means that you try to help them on irc first if on irc and if it fails, then direct the customer to another medium
[15:36] <jpatrick> Mez: that work?
[15:36] <Dave2> I do wish xchat's highlighting didn't suck.
[15:36] <Myrtti> case closed
[15:36] <Mez> jpatrick, did what work ?
[15:36] <Myrtti> /me licks her cherry lollipop
[15:36] <jpatrick> Mez: the ops($| .*) thing
[15:36] <Myrtti> IRSSI FTW
[15:36] <Myrtti> sorry :-<
[15:37] <Mez> jpatrick, yup...
[15:37] <Seeker`> Myrtti: What are you apologising for?
[15:37] <Mez> !caps | Myrtti :P
[15:37] <ubotu> Myrtti :P: PLEASE DON'T SHOUT! We can read lowercase too.
[15:37] <Amaranth> !staff
[15:37] <ubotu> Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary,  I could use a bit of your time :)
[15:37] <Amaranth> --- [Agenomotozg] (n=Agenomot@202.125.143.66) : Agenomotozg
[15:37] <Antkin> No I just want to get back to helping people and leave the Ubuntu dinosoar alone. 
[15:37] <Amaranth> that linux dalnet spammer
[15:37] <Myrtti> oh noes
[15:37] <Antkin> bye
[15:37] <PriceChild> Antkin: have fun
[15:37] <Myrtti> ta-ta
[15:38] <Pici> What is an Ubuntu Dinosaur?
[15:38] <LjL> where is my bot
[15:38] <Amaranth> floodbot flipped out
[15:38] <no0tic> LjL, he left you
[15:39] <Seeker`> Pici: I'm wondering what a dinosoar is
[15:39] <Mez> Pici, I think he might mean konqi ?
[15:39] <LjL> Amaranth, not that bot
[15:39] <Mez> http://www.kubuntu.org/images/konqis.png
[15:39] <Myrtti> *doing*
[15:39] <Pici> Mez: creepy
[15:39] <Seeker`> LjL: ?
[15:40] <LjL> bantracker trick.
[15:40] <LjL> ngg
[15:41] <Pici> Seeker`: It registers that there was a kick, and thus grabs some logs for the channel and sticks it on the bantracker.
[15:41] <Seeker`> ah, cool
[15:41] <Seeker`> you learn something new every day
[15:41] <Amaranth> Oh, I thought that URL was going to be the konq and konqi getting married at the KDE4 release event
[15:41] <Seeker`> sadly, my thing for the day was IRC related again :(
[15:41] <Amaranth> some furries in costumes
[15:42] <Pici> As opposed to furries not in costumes?
[15:42] <PriceChild> irc is a scary place
[15:42] <Amaranth> wtf, i enabled the vmware tools modules and my disk speed went down
[15:42] <Seeker`> Pici: They dont always have costumes on
[15:42]  * Pici closes his eyes in horror
[15:43] <Seeker`> Pici: :P I meant sometimes they wear normal clothes
[15:43] <Pici> oh.
[15:43] <Pici> Still.
[15:43] <PriceChild> i assume ot are talking about uncensored...
[15:44] <Pici> I'm not assuming anything until they ask specifically.
[15:44] <Amaranth> anyone know where i can download the vmware tools iso?
[15:44] <LjL> with emma idling?
[15:44] <Amaranth> mine is broken and open-vm-tools makes my VM slower
[15:44] <jpatrick> LjL: what was that it youtube video about?
[15:44] <jpatrick> LjL: he did the same link in #kde
[15:45] <LjL> jpatrick: i've no idea, but he did the same thing yesterday, in both #ubuntu and -ot
[15:45] <Pici> And in #defocus, and #freenode
[15:45] <jpatrick> mental
[15:45] <LjL> !staff | Lollo is spamming a Youtube link in several channels
[15:45] <Pici> Hes LjL's buddy
[15:45] <PriceChild> He's close to a kline
[15:45] <ubotu> Lollo is spamming a Youtube link in several channels: Hey nalioth, jenda, rob, SportChick, seanw, Dave2, Christel or Gary,  I could use a bit of your time :)
[15:46] <no0tic> LjL, also in #freenode
[15:47] <Amaranth> Lollo again?
[15:47] <Jack_Sparrow> And back at it again...
[15:47] <Amaranth> it's a stupid compiz video
[15:47] <Pici> I was expecting something more trollish.
[15:48] <Amaranth> me too
[15:48] <Amaranth> or at least a rickroll
[15:48] <Seeker`> rickroll?
[15:48] <Amaranth> Seeker`: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
[15:48] <Pici> Its stupid.
[15:48] <TheSheep> are you getting pm spam from Agenomotozg?
[15:49] <Amaranth> TheSheep: I already reported it
[15:49] <Pici> TheSheep: Yes, I pasted the ident@host in #freenode
[15:49] <TheSheep> Amaranth: ok, thanks
[15:50] <Amaranth> gah, firefox died downloading vmware server
[15:51] <jdong> Amaranth: why the hell did you use firefox to do it?
[15:51] <Seeker`> wget?
[15:51] <jdong> curl? (kidding)
[15:51] <Amaranth> jdong: i likes mah gooey
[15:53] <Seeker`> Amaranth: that video is shocking
[15:53] <jdong> Amaranth: that's what SHE said.
[15:54] <Amaranth> Seeker`: yes
[15:54] <Amaranth> cool, i was the first person to rickroll Seeker`
[15:54] <Jack_Sparrow> I'm off to bed for a bit..  Take care you guys.. and gals
[15:54] <Pici> What a stupid meme
[15:54] <Pici> Cya Jack
[15:55] <Amaranth> my aunt has started spring cleaning early
[15:55] <Seeker`> Amaranth: I demand compensation
[15:55] <Amaranth> i had to carry 4 old computers, an old printer, and a couple boxes out to the garage
[15:56] <Pici> Our trash pickup doesnt allow us to put computer parts on the curb anymore, we need to take them to a special disposal place.
[15:58]  * PriceChild wonders how to hilight an entire line in irssi
[15:58] <Pici> -line
[15:58] <PriceChild> aha!
[15:58] <PriceChild> eeeasy
[15:59] <no0tic> PriceChild, /hilight -line 
[15:59] <PriceChild> hmmm nope :/
[15:59] <no0tic> PriceChild, so the help says
[16:00] <PriceChild> :P
[16:00] <PriceChild> maybe this script is messing it up
[16:00] <no0tic> PriceChild, but it never worked for me
[16:00] <PriceChild> lol really?
[16:01] <Pici> Me either
[16:02] <no0tic> uhm nickcolor.pl? format_identify.pl? could they interfere?
[16:04] <PriceChild> i'm playing with the latter
[16:05] <LjL> let let antkin boil in his own oil
[16:05] <LjL> s/let/now/
[16:06] <Pici> Did anyone take a look at his website?
[16:06] <PriceChild> k
[16:06] <PriceChild> linky?
[16:06] <LjL> what website?
[16:06] <Pici> Antkin's. It was in the backlog. http://is4uk.co.uk/index.html
[16:07] <Mez> That's the worst example of SEO I've ever seen
[16:07] <Seeker`> there *seem* to be *a* lot of *quite* randomly *bolded* words
[16:08] <Mez> the random bolding isnt SEO
[16:08] <Mez> It covers
[16:08] <Mez> children family, Hotmail password, banking, computers, shopping, internet web sites, personal, internet, free, online, virus protection, computer,
[16:08] <Mez> anti virus, Firefox, UK, government, family, Mozilla Firefox, firewall and online shopping.
[16:09] <Mez> the bolded words looks like the's trying to test if there is a government spider keeping an eye on him :P 
[16:09] <Seeker`> There is even a "Pay" section, where you can pay for windows hardening tools, Mac advice
[16:09] <Seeker`> and a "members shout box"
[16:10] <nalioth> FUD, slightly
[16:11] <Mez> he paid for that design ????????!!?!?!?!?
[16:11] <Seeker`> Mez: You pay him for security "tips"
[16:12] <Mez> Seeker`, no, I mean, look at the bottom, it's a link for a design company
[16:13] <Seeker`> Mez: do a "whois aperkin.co.uk"
[16:13] <Pici> Mez: Check the name of the web design company versus the 'about me' page
[16:13] <Seeker`> and what do you think "AntKin" is a contraction of
[16:13] <Mez> ah...
[16:13]  * Mez wasnt thinking
[16:13] <Pici> Ant Kindling
[16:15] <no0tic> PriceChild, Pici, /hilight -line doesn't work on a brand new irssi either
[16:15] <Pici> I actually just got it to work, but I could swear it wasn't working before.
[16:15] <no0tic> Pici, how did you manage?
[16:16] <Pici> I just did /hilight -line AntKin actually :p
[16:16] <Pici> But it was too bright, so I scaled it back to the default.
[16:16] <Mez> Pici, I have no idea why or how I just managed to read your comment as "I just got lost on the way to work"
[16:16] <no0tic> Pici, I tried matching a word in a msg
[16:17] <Pici> Mez: o.O
[16:17] <Mez> Pici, I think my brain exploded yesterday
[16:17] <Mez> I'm just running on residual energy now
[16:19] <no0tic> Pici, well, it seems to work matching a nick, but if that nick is talking to you it hilights only his nick
[16:19] <Pici> hmm
[16:19] <LjL> !pidgin
[16:19] <ubotu> pidgin is the new name for Gaim forced by AOL's legal dept. It is available in Ubuntu 7.10 (Gutsy), but not previous versions. See http://www.pidgin.im/index.php for more info. To install Pidgin please see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InstallPidgin2.0
[16:19] <LjL> !no pidgin is <reply> Pidgin is Ubuntu's default instant messenger application. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GaimHowto for a short introduction. Older versions of Pidgin than the one included with !Gutsy were named Gaim.
[16:19] <ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
[16:19] <Pici> !im
[16:19] <ubotu> The Instant Messenger Client Pidgin (formerly Gaim) (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/GaimHowto) supports MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !kopete
[16:20]  * LjL kind of thinks https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Pidgin is pretty sad to have
[16:20] <LjL> !no pidgin iss <alias> im
[16:20] <LjL> !no pidgin is <alias> im
[16:20] <ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
[16:22] <Pici> !-im
[16:22] <ubotu> im is <alias> gaim - added by Seveas on 2006-06-18 17:40:54
[16:22]  * Pici just messes everything up
[16:23] <LjL> !-gaim
[16:23] <ubotu> gaim aliases: im, pidgin - added by Seveas on 2006-06-19 08:50:34
[16:23] <Daviey> -!- maduser [n=root@166.109.0.237] has left #kubuntu [] <--- I hope that is faked :)
[16:23] <LjL> !im-#kubuntu
[16:23] <ubotu> Instant Messenger Client Kopete (http://kopete.kde.org) is supporting MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !gaim
[16:23] <LjL> !no pidgin is <reply> The Instant Messenger Client Pidgin (formerly Gaim) (http://help.ubuntu.com/community/GaimHowto) supports MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !Kopete
[16:23] <ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
[16:23] <Pici> Daviey: Probably not. I've seen many people use irssi from the single user signon
[16:23] <LjL> !no gaim is <alias> pidgin
[16:23] <LjL> !no im is <alias> pidgin
[16:23] <ubotu> You are editing an alias. Please repeat the edit command within the next 10 seconds to confirm
[16:23] <LjL> !no im is <alias> pidgin
[16:24] <PriceChild> he coming back?
[16:24] <Pici> !-im-#kubuntu
[16:24] <ubotu> im-#kubuntu aliases: kopete - added by Tm_T on 2007-11-14 12:43:20
[16:24] <LjL> !no kopete is <reply> Instant Messenger Client Kopete (http://kopete.kde.org) is supporting MSN, Jabber, AIM, Gadu-Gadu, Novell Groupwise, ICQ and IRC. See also !Pidgin
[16:24] <ubotu> I'll remember that LjL
[16:24] <Daviey> Pici: looks like he's using gaim!
[16:24] <LjL> !no im-#kubuntu is <alias> kopete
[16:25] <Pici> Daviey: thats even worse
[16:25] <Pici> !rootirc | Daviey 
[16:25] <ubotu> Daviey: It's not technically our business, but we'd like to tell you that IRC'ing as root is a Very Bad Idea (tm). After all, doing anything as root when root is not needed is bad, and especially bad with software that connects to the Internet.
[16:27] <LjL> [17:26:45] <abrakadabra3> ##Linux (with ##) on Dalnet needs some good company and good channel operators. type /server irc.dal.net (or /connect irc.dalnd and join ##Linux. More flexible, more firendly Be there for some time.
[16:30] <ubotu> In ubotu, Pers3ux said: what is your name?
[16:30] <Pici> bot > Pers3ux
[16:30] <Pici> !bot > Pers3ux
[16:31] <Pici> I always forget the !, I keep thinking I'm in a query with ubotu 
[16:31] <no0tic> Pici, PriceChild /set hilight_nick_matches off did the job
[16:31] <PriceChild> no0tic: what's that do?
[16:32] <Pici> Pers3ux: Can we help you? 
[16:32] <no0tic> PriceChild, if turned off, it doesn't hilight only the talking nick if he's talking to you and you set -line
[16:33] <Pers3ux> no, thx. i only wanted to test ubotu intelligence. excuse for some bad words ;D
[16:33] <Pers3ux> ;D
[16:33] <PriceChild> no0tic: I'm just wondering what it normally does.... if there's any reason why it should be on :P
[16:34] <no0tic> PriceChild, normally it hilights every line in wich you are mentioned
[16:34] <Pici> Pers3ux: Just don't abuse the bot too much, hes been through a lot.
[16:34] <Pici> Pers3ux: Also see this channel's /topic please
[16:34] <Pers3ux> Pici: thx. apolegise again
[16:34] <Pici> :)
[16:35] <no0tic> PriceChild, "Tell irssi whether it should automatically highlight text that matches your nickname.
[16:35] <no0tic> PriceChild, from a guide I found
[16:36] <PriceChild> no0tic: Thanks :)
[16:47] <Myrtti> uh-oh
[16:48] <Pici> uh oh?
[16:48] <Myrtti> Antkin @ -ot
[16:48] <LjL> expected
[16:48] <Tm_T> Myrtti: paste it to me :)
[16:49] <Antkin> Hello
[16:49] <Tm_T> hello
[16:50] <Antkin> Banned this time for saying hello one on IRC
[16:50] <LjL> Antkin, we knew you were a troll since you started speaking, however i think it's now completely clear to anyone who'd care to read the logs. your ban won't be lifted for a considerable amount of time.
[16:51] <Antkin> What do you mean a troll? I only said Hello on the support IRC then got bootwed off
[16:52] <PriceChild> Antkin: remember what I said earlier in #ubuntu?
[16:52] <Pici> Antkin: You were specifically asked not to do that, and yet you seem to not get it.
[16:52] <Antkin> Yes I do
[16:52] <LjL> Antkin, when i say a troll, i mean the following.
[16:52] <LjL> i mean someone who i have no regret for when doing the following.
[16:53] <Pici> Hes going to go complain in -offtopic now.
[16:53] <LjL> Pici: which is exactly my plan
[16:53] <Seeker`> can I get rid of him if he does?
[16:54]  * PriceChild sighs
[16:55]  * Tm_T hugs PriceChild 
[16:55] <PriceChild> :/
[16:56] <Seeker`> does someone want to invite Antkin?
[16:56] <LjL> no
[16:56] <LjL> he can come here with his own feet
[16:56] <Pici> I'm going to boot them both out if they don't stop.
[16:58] <unagi> if asking a question in 3 channels is against the coc it should be IN the coc 
[16:58] <LjL> unagi: no.
[16:58] <LjL> definitely not.
[16:58] <LjL> the CoC is general and doesn't specifically pertain to IRC channels.
[16:58] <unagi> no?
[16:58] <LjL> we have the guidelines for that.
[16:58] <LjL> !guidelines
[16:58] <ubotu> The people here are volunteers, your attitude should reflect that. Answers are not always available. See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines
[16:58] <LjL> have you read them yet?
[16:58] <unagi> oh nice now im banned from the channel
[16:59] <unagi> this is getting extremely old
[16:59] <unagi> i have a paying customer here that i am trying to sell a computer to with linux on it
[16:59] <LjL> unagi: please stay on topic.
[16:59] <unagi> i am ON topic
[16:59] <LjL> no, because we don't care about your paying customers.
[16:59] <unagi> im sure you dont
[16:59] <unagi> you dont care about anything
[16:59] <LjL> does this channel's topic mention paying customers? no.
[17:00] <unagi> other than 'who can i ban now'
[17:00] <LjL> so say something relevant to this channel's topic, or leave.
[17:00] <Tm_T> unagi: sorry son but that isn't true
 if asking a question in 3 channels is against the coc it should be IN the coc 
[17:00] <LjL> unagi: i have explained why that is not true.
[17:00] <unagi> no you havent
[17:00] <Antkin> Hello
[17:00] <unagi> youve thrown factoids at me that have nothign to do with that
[17:01] <Tm_T> unagi: it does
[17:01] <Tm_T> hi Antkin 
[17:01] <LjL> [17:58:28] <LjL> the CoC is general and doesn't specifically pertain to IRC channels.
[17:01] <LjL> [17:58:32] <LjL> we have the guidelines for that.
[17:01] <LjL> [17:58:33] <LjL> !guidelines
[17:01] <LjL> have you read them yet?
[17:01] <Antkin> Help I been banned again this time for saying hello
[17:01] <unagi> yes
[17:01] <unagi> again
[17:01] <unagi> i have
[17:01] <unagi> there is nothing there about asking a question in different channels
[17:02] <unagi> someone in one channel that may not be in the other may know the answer
[17:02] <unagi> and regardless of if YOU think its relavent or not i needed an answer for a customer
[17:02] <LjL> unagi: "Recommendations from channel operators, including those stored in the channel bots, should be followed."
[17:02] <Antkin> Tm_T I'm getting clobbered hard today
[17:02] <PriceChild> Antkin: this was after you were asked not to correct?
[17:02] <LjL> unagi: do you somehow think i'm more sympathetic to spam if it's spam due to the need to answer a *paying* customer's request?
[17:02] <unagi> then put it in the coc if thats the way it should  be
[17:03] <Tm_T> Antkin: sorry son, but what I have seen, you keep doing things you have told not to
[17:03] <Seeker`> Antkin: To be fair, you aren't listening to what you are being told to do / not do
[17:03] <LjL> i'm rather not, to be honest, although that is irrelevant.
[17:03] <unagi> its not spam
[17:03] <unagi> but WHATEVER
[17:03] <unagi> its whatever YOU want it to be
[17:03] <Tm_T> unagi: no
[17:03] <LjL> unagi: <unagi> then put it in the coc if thats the way it should  be <--- have you listened to what i said? i think not.
[17:03] <unagi> as long as it means that i am wrong you will mold and create new rules so that i have broken them
[17:03] <unagi> i cant follow rules unless i know they are there
[17:04] <LjL> unagi: i've told you about it.
[17:04] <unagi> and since it is a rule from you, well gee i guess i couldnt have known
[17:04] <Antkin> I only said hello
[17:04] <unagi> after it had happened
[17:04] <Tm_T> Antkin: where?
[17:04] <unagi> this gestapo bullcrap is getting annoying it really is
[17:04] <Tm_T> Antkin: and, who banned?
[17:04] <Tm_T> unagi: no
[17:04] <LjL> unagi: so what? did i ban you? no, i just told you not to do it. (besides, it's completely common sense, but anyway)
[17:04] <LjL> !etiquette
[17:04] <ubotu> Unsure how you should behave on this channel? See (in a private message with the bot, /msg ubotu <keyword>): !AskTheBot, !CoC, !Guidelines, !Offtopic, !Language, !Attitude, !Repeat, !Enter, !Paste, !NickSpam, !PM, !English - And most importantly, use common sense...
[17:04] <Antkin> On the support IRC
[17:04] <unagi> obviously its not so common
[17:04] <PriceChild> Tm_T: no need.
[17:04] <unagi> i consider spam to be in one channel not in 3
[17:04] <PriceChild> Antkin: this was after you were asked not to correct?
[17:04] <LjL> Tm_T, nobody banned originally, i just said <LjL> unagi: why don't you spam your question in a couple more channels?
[17:05] <unagi> in a facetious manner
[17:05] <unagi> i guess its ok for ops to be facetious
[17:05] <Tm_T> PriceChild: danke
[17:05] <Antkin> I was never asked not to say hello
[17:05] <LjL> Antkin: yes, you were
[17:05] <PriceChild> Antkin: would you like me to pull up timestamps from the public logs at irclogs.ubuntu.com ?
[17:06] <Antkin> What would that prove?
[17:06] <LjL> Antkin: that you were asked.
[17:06] <unagi> Antkin: just know that ops are always right even if theyre not
[17:06] <Amaranth> I specifically asked you not to do so and explained why
[17:06] <PriceChild> unagi: Calm down.
[17:07] <Amaranth> also, live-helper running in a virtual machine is slow
[17:07] <Amaranth> stupid amd64 machine
[17:08] <Amaranth> oh jeez, this is fixed in live-helper in sid
[17:08] <Antkin> I was asked to stay on topic and given a final warning. Then I got booted off. The I went back on again and said Hello and was instantly banned and booted off again
[17:08] <PriceChild> ok one moment, let me find timestamp of mine and ljl's requests
[17:08] <Amaranth> gah, and it used an amd64 kernel in the x86 virtual machine too
[17:08]  * Amaranth stabs things
[17:09] <LjL> [17:34] <Antkin> federa Hi
[17:09] <LjL> [17:34] *** Antkin has left #ubuntu (requested by LjL: "Bye")
[17:09] <LjL> [17:36] <Antkin> Hello
[17:09] <LjL> [17:37] *** Antkin has left #ubuntu (requested by LjL: "Bye")
[17:09] <LjL> [17:37] <LjL> Antkin: just stop it with greetings.
[17:09] <LjL> [17:42] <Antkin> Hello all
[17:09] <LjL> [17:42] *** Antkin has left #ubuntu (requested by LjL: "You should have known better, bye")
[17:09] <PriceChild> 15:53LjLAntkin: that was a subtle hint to stop greeting every time you join. [16:49:00] <PriceChild> Antkin: to be polite... everyone sees your join message. There is no need to tell us you are back :)
[17:10] <PriceChild> (from http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2008/03/03/%23ubuntu.html )
[17:10] <LjL> Antkin: so, do you have anything else than blatant lies for us?
[17:11] <Antkin> I don't lie I want to get to the bottom of this once again
[17:11] <LjL> Antkin: how can you claim you haven't lied?
[17:11] <LjL> let me answer that for you, you can't.
[17:12] <Antkin> is saying Hi a lie is saying Hello a lie?
[17:12] <LjL> Antkin: non sequitur.
[17:12] <Myrtti> fcol
[17:12] <Amaranth> 09:47	Amaranth	Antkin: If you don't know the answer don't tell them to Google it, just don't say anything
[17:12] <Amaranth> 09:47	Amaranth	Antkin: And don't greet everyone as they come in, that's too much traffic
[17:12] <PriceChild> The above log excerpts prove you were asked not to greet the channel each time you joined... a really simple, polite request. You deny that? Please check the logs site I have given.
[17:12] <Antkin> LJL please speak in plain english
[17:12] <PriceChild> i can't spell
[17:13] <LjL> Antkin, see pricechild. anyway, you can easily google "non sequitur".
[17:13] <Antkin> I have not told anyone to google this afternoon so therefore I have not lied on that issue
[17:13] <LjL> Antkin: non sequitur.
[17:14] <Antkin> LjL I do not understand you please say it again in plain english 
[17:15] <Pici> You're comparing apples with oranges.
[17:15] <PriceChild> Antkin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur_(logic)
[17:15] <no0tic> Non sequitur (logic), logical fallacy
[17:15] <LjL> Antkin: what you're being accused of lying about is your claim that <Antkin> I was never asked not to say hello
[17:15] <Antkin> So you playing games with me now
[17:16] <LjL> Antkin: but PriceChild and I said that clearly enough already a number of times.
[17:16] <LjL> ah, no, not quite.
[17:16] <LjL> i'm pretty much convinced that you are playing games with us.
[17:16] <LjL> Antkin: so, review the logs, and please reply to my question: were you asked to stop greeting people on join?
[17:17] <Gary> wow, still feeding then
[17:18] <Antkin> Yes I was but did not understand that i could not say hello
[17:18] <Jack_Sparrow> Guys look at ubuntu for a sec.. oriana?
[17:18] <Pici> Jack_Sparrow: Probably just a mistype, I didnt see any drops because of it.
[17:18] <Jack_Sparrow> thanks.
[17:18] <LjL> Antkin: if you could not understand that after so many pretty obvious warnings, then i suggest you're not apt at helping or being helped in #ubuntu
[17:18] <Pici> Jack_Sparrow: I'd remove if they do it again though.
[17:18] <LjL> Antkin: i stand of my opinion that your ban won't be lifted for a considerable amount of time.
[17:18] <LjL> if you have no further questions, please leave this channel.
[17:19] <Jack_Sparrow> Ok..  
[17:19] <PriceChild> Jack_Sparrow: pm
[17:19] <Jack_Sparrow> Sure..
[17:19] <Jack_Sparrow> You need not ask me.
[17:20] <Antkin> So lets make it very clear. I am no longer allowed to say hello on the support channel
[17:20] <PriceChild> Antkin: correct.
[17:20] <LjL> PriceChild, well, that's only correct as a corollary
[17:20] <LjL> Antkin: you're no longer allowed to *enter* the support channel.
[17:21] <Antkin> Yes I know that I am banned
[17:21] <PriceChild> LjL: I would prefer we keep answers simple. :)
[17:21] <LjL> Antkin: yes, so as i said, do you have any further questions for us?
[17:21] <Antkin> Can we work this out?
[17:21] <Myrtti> sure, but not today
[17:22] <LjL> Antkin: we've had a chance to. you missed that chance.
[17:22] <Antkin> what chance? When did I miss it?
[17:22] <Myrtti> oh my
[17:22] <LjL> Antkin: when we talked earlier.
[17:22] <Myrtti> you *REALLY* aren't getting it
[17:23] <Myrtti> we need to resupply our alphabet blocks
[17:24] <Antkin> I want a result in my favour
[17:24] <Myrtti> seem to have used them all out while trying to spell things to peopled
[17:24] <Myrtti> -d
[17:25] <Myrtti> /me gives LjL an alphabet cookie
[17:25] <Amaranth> Everyone wants a result in their favour
[17:25] <Pici> Its too bad that he wants to help... 
[17:26] <Amaranth> wikipedia is weird
[17:26] <Amaranth> "In some areas, sexual abuse of individuals is prohibited by law and considered against the norms of society."
[17:26] <Amaranth> and do not ask how i ended up on the page that has that, i could not tell you
[17:27] <no0tic> oh my
[17:27] <Amaranth> it's talking world wide
[17:27] <Amaranth> so apparently not allowing sexual abuse is a minority thing
[17:28] <unagi> ...
[17:28] <Pici> Whats that for?
[17:29] <Amaranth> i have no idea
[17:29] <Amaranth> i was aimlessly clicking wikipedia links
[17:29] <Pici> Amaranth: Heh, I meant unagi's ellipses.
[17:29] <Myrtti> so unagi
[17:29] <Pici> I figured thats what you were doing.
[17:30] <no0tic> you know what? There are cultures out there for which sexual abuse isn't considered against anything.. but I think _they_ are a minority. Nevertheless that sentence is misleading...
[17:31] <unagi> so Myrtti
[17:31] <Myrtti> yo peeps, back to business!
[17:32] <Pici> 'yo peeps'.  yikes.
[17:32] <Myrtti> \,,/
[17:33]  * unagi stares at the screen
[17:33] <LjL> unagi, ok, so let's restart the reasoning from scratch
[17:34] <unagi> even when trying to adhere to the rules it seems that i break some abstract rule that i had no way of knowing
[17:34] <LjL> unagi: the CoC codifies general principles, it cannot and should not go into the details of specific contexts such as the forums, or IRC, etc
[17:34] <unagi> and i can understand that except i feel that my reason for asking in 3 channels is legit
[17:34] <Pici> unagi: Breaking stupid rules that you don't know about isn't the end of the world, its your attitude about it.
[17:34] <LjL> unagi: on IRC, we have the IRC guidelines. even those, obviously, can't cover every possible behavior that is disruptive to the channels, or they would take up more space than the Wiki server has.
[17:35] <unagi> understandable
[17:35] <LjL> unagi: so what happens is that operators use their own common sense, and inform you when you're being disruptive.
[17:35] <unagi> i wasnt trying to be disruptive or annoying by asking in 3 channels
[17:35] <LjL> unagi: it is hoped that your own common sense matches the operators', but when that doesn't happen, you are informed.
[17:35] <Myrtti> a small recap for me please, which were the channels? #ubuntu, #ubuntu-offtopic and...?
[17:36] <unagi> #kubuntu
[17:36] <Myrtti> ah
[17:36] <unagi> i suppose it just irritates me that even when i am trying to be good im not
[17:36] <LjL> unagi: well, i perceived it as disruptive, however. i'm sorry i've used sarcasm instead of just telling you in plain words - that attitude of mine might have been due to the fact that you were previously muted, and were evading the mute, and were also previously banned several times.
[17:36] <LjL> unagi: nevertheless, the fact remains that if operators do point out that your behavior is considered disruptive, you should take that as a guideline.
[17:37] <unagi> would it be percieved as ban evading if i loaded up one of 7 computers in this business running irc?
[17:37] <unagi> that in itsself is a gray area to me
[17:37] <unagi> are you banning my nick, my server, or me as a person
[17:37] <Myrtti> your behaviour
[17:37] <Myrtti> be it your person, nick or server
[17:37] <LjL> unagi, the ban is on yourself. why would we care about which computer you are on? (of course, we do have to care technically, but that's not the point of a ban)
[17:38] <unagi> i dont like being made out to be a complete moron, and when that is said in alternate words and nothing is said, that seems very hypocritical to me
[17:39] <unagi> referring of course to the mute
[17:39] <PriceChild> I don't follow?
[17:39] <LjL> PriceChild: he's talking about when i muted him the other day.
[17:39] <PriceChild> oh yes
[17:39] <PriceChild> I don't understand how that makes him out to be a moron though?
[17:40] <unagi> just this insignificant person the other day not able to listen to reason
[17:40] <unagi> it really wasnt a big deal
[17:40] <PriceChild> Someone was making you out to be a moron... you got muted?
[17:41] <unagi> because i got frustrated and pointed out the others ignorance using the word moron got me muted
[17:41] <PriceChild> You were made out to be a moron by being muted?
[17:41] <unagi> no
[17:41] <Antkin> Hello if I'm allowed to say that here
[17:41] <PriceChild> Antkin: enough with the cheek.
[17:41] <unagi> i was made out to be a moron by this other person, i was muted for voicing my opinion on the others stubborness and oblivion
[17:42] <unagi> i was supposedly /ignored and out came 'what a moron' from me
[17:42] <Antkin> That's not cheek I got botted off last time
[17:42] <unagi> im going to sit out until Antkin is done
[17:42] <PriceChild> unagi: I think that was more of 'a straw that broke the camel's back' although I can't be sure
[17:43] <unagi> oh i know it was PriceChild the thing is, that using other words the same was said about me to the other party but they arent and wont be banned
[17:43] <LjL> unagi, i already told you that you wouldn't have been muted if you didn't just push the CoC thing (just like you've done now, and been banned for it).
[17:43] <PriceChild> aha right I'm with you now
[17:43] <LjL> PriceChild: you can be sure - there's a paste attacked to the entry
[17:43] <Antkin> How do I lift a ban?
[17:43] <LjL> Antkin, you don't.
[17:44] <unagi> pretty much what im saying is that i am trying my hardest to adhere to the guidelines but that is proving to be very difficult
[17:44] <Antkin> how do you lift a ban?
[17:44] <PriceChild> unagi: I would suggest in future, if you believe someone is going against the CoC or guidelines, that you talk to an operator in pm or here rather than calling them a moron?
[17:44] <unagi> seeing as how the coc is a large general area
[17:44] <LjL> Antkin: using the /mode command.
[17:44] <unagi> understood, the discussion was over....which is why i said it wasnt a big deal
[17:44] <nalioth> Antkin: for technical information about managing channels, there are other channels more suited for your questions
[17:44] <nalioth> Antkin: if you are trying to ask when "your" ban will be removed, that is up to the banning operator
[17:45] <unagi> rephrased.........i was muted after the discussion was over
[17:45] <Antkin> Who is the banning operator this time?
[17:45] <LjL> unagi, one thing at a time though. first off, have you followed the reasoning i made when i said i'd "restart the reasoning from scratch"=
[17:45] <LjL> ?
[17:45] <LjL> Antkin: that would be me
[17:46] <unagi> im following you
[17:46] <PriceChild> Grr just hit alt+f4 instead of alt+4
[17:46] <unagi> i was banned for pushing changes to coc
[17:46] <LjL> unagi: no, not that reasoning
[17:46] <Antkin> Are you sure because last time on ops I was told it was somebody else
[17:46] <LjL> unagi: "the CoC codifies general principles, it cannot and should not go into the details of specific contexts such as the forums, or IRC, etc.  on IRC, we have the IRC guidelines. even those, obviously, can't cover every possible behavior that is disruptive to the channels, or they would take up more space than the Wiki server has.  so what happens is that operators use their own common sense, and inform you when you're being disruptive.  it is hoped 
[17:46] <LjL> that your own common sense matches the operators', but when that doesn't happen, you are informed."
[17:47] <LjL> this reasoning
[17:47] <LjL> Antkin: that's because you've been given another chance (by me) after your first ban, and then banned again.
[17:47] <unagi> yes
[17:47] <Antkin> How long will the ban last?
[17:47] <LjL> unagi: do you, uh, agree with it, if that's not too strong a word?
[17:48] <LjL> Antkin, a considerable amount of time.
[17:48] <unagi> yes
[17:48] <PriceChild> unagi: we aren't evil and power tripping, who love having discussions like this. We just want to keep the Ubuntu channels running smoothly.
[17:48] <Antkin> a week a month a year?
[17:48] <unagi> understandable, i really am trying to adhere
[17:48] <LjL> Antkin: i suggest you come back to discuss it again in a month.
[17:49] <LjL> unagi: ok, so, let's get to why you were banned *now* (then we can talk about the mute)
[17:49] <Antkin> Are you realy sure about that I think I'd be better off formatting four hard drives and removing Ubuntu from my systems
[17:49] <LjL> unagi: you were banned because you were repeatedly warned, by multiple people, to stop arguing or to move the arguing to this channel. even after it was clearly stated that you would be banned if you persisted - well, you persisted, and that got you banned.
[17:50] <LjL> Antkin: yes, i'm sure.
[17:50] <unagi> to tell you the truth, i hadnt seen that, that was suggested to me.........when i did i moved to this channel to which 5 seconds after i was promptly banned
[17:51] <LjL> unagi: now, one thing that's *very* useful on IRC is taking a deep breath and walking away for a couple of minutes at least, when you just can't keep yourself from arguing.
[17:51] <Antkin> I was a mandriva user and in all my time there I was never insulted or called a Troll
[17:51] <Amaranth> well that sucked
[17:51] <Amaranth> i'm almost never on the server that split
[17:52] <LjL> unagi, you would have seen it, i think, if you weren't enraged by it all.
[17:52] <LjL> unagi: that's part of the reason why walking away for a little while is useful.
[17:52] <Amaranth> I hope the floodbots don't start fighting again
[17:53] <LjL> Amaranth: good time for fixing them if they do, since i'm looking
[17:53] <Amaranth> well, they all agree on status for now
[17:53] <Amaranth> last time one of them realized the split was over and the other two didn't
[17:54] <Amaranth> they're somewhat out of sync now, i forsee bad things
[17:54] <Amaranth> also, PriceChild, don't press alt-f4 on my server again :P
[17:54] <LjL> unagi: anyway, even if you missed the very last line, you *were* told a number of times that pushing the issue would result in trouble. is that true? well, it depends... but if you push an issue when you're enraged about it, yes, it generally results in trouble.
[17:55] <unagi> if it were any other time i probably wouldnt have been enraged, it involved a paying customer
[17:56] <unagi> which blinded my judgement
[17:57] <LjL> unagi, ok, blinded judgement sometimes happen to everyone for one reason or another. i'm happy you at least understand that it's an issue of blinded judgement. now do we want to talk about the mute, or do you think you see what the leitmotif is here?
[17:57] <Amaranth> LjL: will the floodbots reop themselves?
[17:57] <Amaranth> they just spit out a warning about it
[17:57] <LjL> Amaranth: no, i've removed that feature because it wasn't really working. it's quite a nuisance.
[17:59] <unagi> if you feel a discussion is needed
[18:01] <LjL> unagi, that depends. i can tell you in advance that your ban won't be removed for a day or two, because we need to make a point after all, if i can be that plain. but thinking things over will likely allow something like this to not happen again - and if thinking things over doesn't work, then talking things over might.
[18:02] <unagi> i feel that a day or two ban is a bit overkill but im sure that my opinion wont matter
[18:03] <LjL> unagi, we generally feel that less than that is basically as good as nothing
[18:04] <unagi> im finding it increasingly more difficult to suggest switching from windows to linux because of mishaps like these
[18:04] <LjL> and unagi, you're back to the fallacy of "everyone is out to get me". you sounded reasonable a minute ago. i'm guessing that telling you that the ban will not be removed right away enraged you again a bit. so walk away another five minutes, and then tell me if you think discussing the mute or other matters further will help.
[18:05] <unagi> i have given no indication of any enragement and suggesting so is a bit presumptuous
[18:07] <Myrtti> I really dislike it when people start to hold a knife to their ubuntu desktop cd's and say "lift the ban or the cd will get it"
[18:07] <LjL> unagi, the indication was "but i'm sure that my opinion wont matter". but as i said, i'm *guessing* from that, i'm not "accusing you of being enraged"... if you're not enraged, then fine, you're not enraged, but i merely suggest that you check out the possibility that you are
[18:08] <LjL> unagi: so it's up to you whether you want to walk away for a couple of minutes again before continuing the discussion, and then deciding whether or not it's worth to discuss further
[18:09] <unagi> if youre decision is firm that a day or two ban is actually going to teach me a lesson on misunderstandings then i suppose there isnt anything more to discuss unless im missing something
[18:12] <LjL> unagi, yes, i think you could say it's what the ban is hoping to achieve. i don't know if you're missing something - that's what i'm asking *you*. if you think discussing the mute will help clearing things up in the long term, then let's discuss it, if you think it'd be counter-productive, then let's forget it.
[18:13] <unagi> if the ban and mute is only to be lifted in 1 or 2 days then i guess there is nothing further to discuss
[18:14] <LjL> unagi: yes, the ban stays for some time regardless of what we say here, at this point.
[18:23] <LjL> unagi, i should ask you to leave this channel now, and come back in a day or two
[18:24] <ompaul> unagi, I strongly suggest you do as LjL kindly hints at
[18:25] <unagi> i was away from my pc
[18:25] <ompaul> have it your way
[18:25] <unagi> i appologize for any inconvieniance
[18:26] <ompaul> !test
[18:26] <ubotu> Failed.
[18:26] <ompaul> !botsnack
[18:26] <ubotu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[18:27] <LjL> i think unagi should be unbanned if he comes back asking nicely enough.
[18:27] <LjL> he got relatively reasonable.
[18:27] <ompaul> hopefully he stays that way 
[18:28] <jdong> It blows my mind that one can dedicate so much time to quibbling... Don't people just stop and think "this is silly... I should either stop or leave"?
[18:28] <LjL> jdong, some of the people who can't make that stop-and-think thing eventually become channel operators.
[18:29] <ompaul> jdong, I hope that question was rhetorical
[18:29] <ompaul> LjL, care to rephrase
[18:29] <ompaul> maybe no
[18:29] <ompaul> ;-)
[18:29] <LjL> exactly
[18:29] <jdong> :)
[18:30] <LjL> i've spent all afternoon dealing with unagi and antkin :)
[18:32] <ompaul> antkin not known to me
[18:32] <Seeker`> ompaul: its probably best that way
[18:32] <jdong> ompaul: did you try asking on the forums?
[18:32] <jdong> *ducks*
[18:32] <ompaul> for them or me
[18:32] <Seeker`> ompaul: you
[18:32] <ompaul> ohh 
[18:33] <LjL> ompaul: code name is "serial greeter". you can check the lengthy backscrolls of several channels... in any case, don't unban :)
[18:43] <ompaul> LjL, ack
[18:43] <ompaul> nice but not
[18:44] <ompaul> hello I can troll with the word hell can't i 
[18:44] <ompaul> woops
[18:44] <LjL> hell yes
[18:44] <ompaul> I can troll with the word hello that is
[18:44] <ompaul> hello LjL ;-)
[18:44] <ompaul> ohh that is special
[18:45] <LjL> though the hello thing wasn't his primary aim
[18:45] <LjL> i bet his primary aim was putting us against the forums
[18:45] <ompaul> ahhhhhhhh
[18:45] <ompaul> so a divide and conquer 
[18:45] <ompaul> measure
[18:46] <ompaul> nice - sorry been there, done that, burnt the tee shirt
[18:46] <ompaul> etc
[18:57] <cmdbbq> i can't get into #ubuntu, it says i am banned, and i was wondering why
[18:57] <cmdbbq> it may be a result of my connection mthod
[18:58] <LjL> cmdbbq: indeed we don't let proxies and open shells join #ubuntu, due to abuse
[18:58] <cmdbbq> ah i see
[18:58] <cmdbbq> i am regrettably unable to connect directly from my university
[18:59] <LjL> cmdbbq: can't you connect straight from your ISP?
[18:59] <Pici> cmdbbq: freenode is open on port 8001 as well, if your university is blocking 6667.
[18:59] <cmdbbq> i am at school now and for some reason they block connections to irc servers
[19:00] <LjL> cmdbbq: try Pici's suggestion. « /server irc.freenode.net 8001 » with most clients.
[19:00] <cmdbbq> i would love to know how, but they block outgoing irc connections on all ports
[19:01] <Pici> Ah, packet shaping.
[19:01] <ompaul> well if it is gnu/linux they use iptables, and if BSD then pf
[19:01] <nalioth> cmdbbq: have you tried port 8000, 8001 or 8002 ?
[19:01] <cmdbbq> yeah i have never gotten a good answer as to why though
[19:01] <cmdbbq> yes
[19:01] <ompaul> cos it is a time sink and it gets admins grief 
[19:02] <cmdbbq> i think all the servers (except the VPN) are gnu/linux
[19:02] <cmdbbq> so yeah iptables
[19:02] <cmdbbq> cest la vie
[19:02] <nalioth> cmdbbq: see PM
[19:02] <cmdbbq> thanks for the suggestion
[19:06] <Daviey> cmdbbq: use a proxy?
[19:06] <ompaul> that last one was for reasons of previous trollage I refuse to take it as a serious question
[19:06] <ompaul> Daviey,  we ban proxies
[19:07] <Daviey> ompaul: i mean a socks proxy
[19:07] <Pici> Daviey: proxies are often abused.
[19:07] <ompaul> ack
[19:07] <Pici> syn
[19:08] <LjL> fin
[19:08] <ompaul> fin-wait
[19:08] <ompaul> no one cares :)
[19:09] <Daviey_> <-- via socks proxy
[19:16] <jussi01> nalioth: May I pm for a moment?
[19:16] <nalioth> jussi01: any time
[19:17] <PriceChild> ompaul: did you mean Slade then?
[19:17] <ompaul> PriceChild, he was told repeat and straight away said ok
[19:17] <ompaul> then hit the same question with more words
[19:17] <PriceChild> ompaul: sorry yes misread.
[19:18] <PriceChild> was reading the language guy by accident
[19:18] <ompaul> if he had not been so quick to repeat Iwould have answered
[19:33] <Pici> 'DoYouKnow' sounds familiar, although I may be confusing it with New Now Know How
[19:34] <Seeker`> Hello Pici. You tried looking on the forums for "DoYouKnow"? :P
[19:35] <Pici> Seeker`: I almost spit my soda out on my keyboard, thanks
[19:35] <Seeker`> hehe
[20:17] <Pici> !ping
[20:18] <jussi01> bot is dead :(
[20:18] <ubotu> ping yourself ;-) really the diodes all down my left side are sore
[20:18] <Pici> Just a bit lethargic.
[20:18] <jussi01> or just slow...
[20:18] <jussi01> just a little...lol
[20:20]  * Amaranth_ hugs ubotu
[20:21] <Amaranth_> aww, no love
[20:42] <Seveas> ubotu2 is visiting #ubuntu now
[20:42] <Seveas> no helpers are enabled, so it cannot say a word
[20:42] <Seveas> let's see how well it holds in there 
[20:47] <OKay> I can't join to the ubuntu channel
[20:49] <OKay> Could someone answer why is that?
[20:49] <Seveas> probaly someone can :)
[20:49] <OKay> yep
[20:50] <OKay> anyway, i'm starting with ubuntu and i have a problem, i can't play vmw files..
[20:50] <Seveas> OKay, this is no support channel
[20:50] <OKay> well, i hear the voice but can't see anything :)
[20:50] <OKay> ok
[20:50] <Pici> OKay: Give us a moment to check our logs.
[20:50] <OKay> clear
[20:50] <Seveas> Pici, can you please hurry on the new bantracker, the old one can't cope :)
[20:51] <Pici> Seveas: I'm working on it, work has consumed all my time lately :/
[20:51] <Seveas> heh, same here
[20:51] <Seveas> if ubotu2 holds up I'll help
[20:51] <Seeker`> pfft, work is overrated
[20:52] <Pici> @btlogin
[20:52] <band4life> LjL?
[20:53] <Seveas> band4life, get out while you can. If a staffer sees you he might k-line
[20:55] <okkay> now my nick, ident and realname arent rude
[20:55] <okkay> the ban was because of them
[20:55] <Seveas> okkay, yeah, I just found out in the logs
[20:55] <Seveas> seems fair to remove the ban now
[20:55] <okkay> i didn't know the rule
[20:56] <Seveas> okkay, ban has been removed
[20:56] <okkay> ty
[20:56] <band4life> seveas i was supposed to come here and talk to LjL
[20:56] <Seveas> band4life, from what I heard there's a bit more going on than that
[20:57] <band4life> so what am I supposed to do?  
[20:57] <band4life> never return?
[20:57] <Seveas> band4life, well that would be a solution ;)
[20:58] <okkay> ah, and idling here is not allowed either
[20:59] <okkay> bye and thank you for removing the ban :)
[20:59] <band4life> true,  but from what I gathered at other channels my banning is not unheard of.  Infact it is common.  So if I am going to continue to be mistreated, I am going to report some of the ops.  
[20:59] <band4life> thanks to those of you who were friendly
[21:03] <Seeker`> who does he think he will be reporting the ops to?
[21:03] <jussi01> Seeker`: there is a process
[21:05] <Amaranth> IRC Council then Community Council
[21:05] <Amaranth> Then I suppose freenode technically fits in there somewhere but they're pretty hands off about such things
[21:05] <jussi01> I dont think its ever gotten to the cc has it?
[21:06] <Amaranth> Well, we've had lots of things go to the CC before the IRC Council existed
[21:06] <Amaranth> That's how new ops got approved :P
[21:06] <jussi01> aye
[21:11] <ompaul> well if you want to call yourself band4life and a real name of evade - are you going to impress those to whom you are asking for access to their controlled zone?
[21:11] <ompaul> yes but not in the way you intend :)
[21:18] <Seveas> didn't last long before ubotu2 bugged out
[21:19] <Seveas> stupid me forgot to override __hash__ in the case insensitive subclass of unicode and then used it as dict index
[21:22] <waynrdude> i find it interesting that when ops talk about vista and microsoft it is ok
[21:22] <waynrdude> but the second i say something its not
[21:23] <waynrdude> unless im missing something.....
[21:25] <PriceChild> waynrdude: channel?
[21:25] <PriceChild> offtopic?
[21:25] <waynrdude> yesd
[21:26] <ompaul> I don't talk about them unless I want to disparage something
[21:26] <waynrdude> it was more than 1
[21:26] <waynrdude> 3 or 4 people in on a conversation about vista, no one had a problem with it until i was in on it
[21:27] <PriceChild> waynrdude: whether its allowed or not... I don't see ompaul or another op talking about it?
[21:27] <ompaul> no 
[21:27] <ompaul> waynrdude, no no no, now let me help you 
 meh, i'm sure it's ok as far as windows systems go. it's just new to me that it doesn't come with any applications like linux distros do :)
[21:27] <ompaul> I was out having dinner
[21:27] <waynrdude> Flare183 says Vista is a load of Crap!!!
[21:27] <ompaul> I came back 
[21:27] <PriceChild> waynrdude: neither of those are ops?
[21:27] <ompaul> and I saw it I said !windows
[21:28] <ompaul> then I directed it at you - when it failed to stop
[21:28] <waynrdude> but why just directed at me?
[21:28] <waynrdude> i wasnt the only one discussing it nor was i the one to initiate it
[21:28] <ompaul> waynrdude, cos when I said !windows
[21:28] <ompaul> you kept at it
[21:28] <PriceChild> waynrdude: is this a new complaint?
[21:29] <PriceChild> waynrdude: Stop, go away and grab a drink. Watch tv or read a book for 10 minutes, then if you are still annoyed, come back, review the logs, and decide what you don't like and would like changed.
[21:29] <ompaul> waynrdude, and if you need help with scroll back I can post it from when I came back to now
[21:29] <waynrdude> i dont like that it was only when i decided to join in on the discussion of vista and windows that it was directed at me to stop as if i started it
[21:30] <ompaul> waynrdude, read what I said
[21:30] <Seveas> waynrdude, don't be paranoid, that's a coincidence
[21:30] <ompaul> it was only directed at you - after you went again when I had done a !windows
[21:30] <ompaul> to the channel
[21:31] <ompaul> hey man it is not personal I have a thing about windows discussions and support in ubuntu-offtopic 
[21:31] <ompaul> I don't like it
[21:31] <ompaul> but that is just me
[21:31] <Seveas> neh
[21:31] <Seveas> not just you
[21:31] <waynrdude> id agree if anyone was asking for support
[21:31] <ompaul> true
[21:31] <ompaul> aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
[21:31] <ompaul> the discussion is offtopic
[21:31] <ompaul> in offtopic
[21:31] <Seveas> !o4o > waynrdude 
[21:31] <waynrdude> anyone else see the irony in that?
[21:31] <Seveas> EOD
[21:32] <Seveas> waynrdude, stop trolling now.
[21:32] <waynrdude> everyone to an op is a troll..............>EOD
[21:32] <PriceChild> waynrdude: *strongly* suggest you read and follow my advice above, then decide what you want to complain about
[21:32] <PriceChild> waynrdude: *strongly* suggest you read and follow my advice above, then decide what you want to complain about
[21:32] <waynrdude> fuck you dude
[21:32] <waynrdude> i merely joined in a conversation
[21:33] <ompaul> PriceChild, guess he didn't
[21:35] <PriceChild> If you're annoyed about something... fine. But don't come into a channel and claim something much worse.
[21:36] <ompaul> he wanted to be wound up
[21:36] <LjL> Seveas: +1
[21:37] <Seeker`> People enjoy complaining
[21:37] <Seveas> LjL, :)
[21:37] <Seeker`> almost as much as the british enjoy queuing
[21:38] <PriceChild> Can I kick him next?
[21:38] <PriceChild> oh wait...
[21:40] <ompaul> he ain't sayin much
[21:41] <PriceChild> he's in pm with m
[21:41] <PriceChild> e
[21:47] <ompaul> he
[21:47] <ompaul> h
[21:47] <ompaul> well give him the logs 
[21:47] <ompaul> I walked in to my client when I started off
[21:47] <ompaul> so he can take it or not
[21:47] <ompaul> but it is me he needs to talk with 
[22:00] <ompaul> PriceChild, is he still burning your ear?
[22:02] <PriceChild> no
[22:06] <ompaul> ack
[22:13] <ompaul> uangi is not to be unbanned waynrdude was him 
[22:13] <ompaul> idiot
[22:14]  * ompaul gets a little annoyed
[22:15] <LjL> for your information: the above "waynrdude" is again "unagi", ban evading one too many times. don't unban.
[22:20] <Seveas> ah, unagi again
[22:20] <Seveas> fun
[22:20] <LjL> Seveas: see PM
[23:50] <ompaul> you were asked nicely to do something 
[23:50] <ompaul> irc is not a democracy
[23:51] <ompaul> Stormx2`, have a cup of tea or something 
[23:52] <mneptok> Stormx2`: and next time you are asked nicely to follow channel rules, please do make an argument out of it.
[23:53] <Stormx2`> You know, you guys aren't _always_ right. And saying IRC isn't a democracy has no bearing on this. I didn't elect you, I don't want to, I trust that you've worked hard for your positions.
[23:53] <mneptok> err ... "do not"
[23:54] <TheSheep> actually, those positions are more of a punishment :)
[23:54] <Stormx2`> hehe.
[23:54] <LjL> Stormx2`, thing is, when an op asks you to [not] do something, comply, and if you don't agree, say it *here*, don't start a flamewar in the channel
[23:54] <PriceChild> (or pm)
[23:55] <PriceChild> (preferable pm first)
[23:55] <LjL> or that, yea
[23:55] <LjL> anyway point is, not in the channel
[23:55] <mneptok> Stormx2`: and if you want to debate the merit of an interpretation of the rules, do so. don't attack the person. "don't you have anything better to do" is not going to earn you many friends or much goodwill.
[23:56] <Stormx2`> "Please be considerate of everyone and keep all the #ubuntu channels family friendly", "When using any #ubuntu channel, please avoid the use of swearing..."
[23:56] <Stormx2`> Firstly, "sucks" isn't swearing.
[23:56] <Stormx2`> I can't even find a definition which says vulgar, expletive, etc.
[23:57] <Stormx2`> let alone a sane reference to it being swearing.
[23:57] <Stormx2`> As for family friendly, we really have had worse in that channel than "sucks".
[23:57] <mneptok> my objection was not to the word "sucks"
[23:57] <LjL> well having had worse hardly justifies anything
[23:58] <Stormx2`> LjL of course it doesn't, all i'm saying is it's right at the occult-end of the defintion of family friendly.
[23:58] <mneptok> except the word wasn't "sucks"
[23:58] <Stormx2`> Blows.
[23:58] <Stormx2`> Even.
[23:58] <Stormx2`> Tired.
[23:58] <Stormx2`> They're on the same level.
[23:58] <mneptok> it was people using "badass" and "blows" within 20 seconds of each other.
[23:59] <mneptok> let's stop the avalanche before it gathers bigger rocks.
[23:59] <mneptok> and let's be clear, you were NOT banned for language.
[23:59] <ompaul> Stormx2`, point is - conversation level was going in the wrong direction