[05:19] <TheMuso> Well well well. I got accessibility working from wubi, with a little command-line hackery. Need to try it without hackery first, to make sure it isn't a flook.! :)
[06:10] <evand> TheMuso: you managed to fix the command line getting truncated at 256 bytes bug?
[06:11] <TheMuso> evand: Not quite. I switched the access=* around with the --
[06:11] <TheMuso> The -- means nothing, so as long as access=* comes before that, we should be fine.,
[06:11] <evand> My understanding was that anything after the -- was carried over to the installed system.
[06:11] <TheMuso> Just confirmed it without touching a thing. Gets truncated at access=
[06:11] <evand> indeed, I haven't found a fix for that yet.
[06:12] <TheMuso> Hrm right.
[06:12] <TheMuso> Its probably an internal kernel thing I'm guessing.
[06:12] <evand> I believe it's grub4dos, as the problem does not exist outside of Wubi.
[06:13] <TheMuso> Alternatively, have you considered putting a lot of the stuff thats currently on the command line, into a file, instead of on the command-line? Stuff like locale, keyboard, etc.
[06:13] <TheMuso> Right.
[06:13] <evand> indeed grub4dos has the kernel command line statically set to 256 bytes, but we patched it to match regular grub.  The problem still exists however.
[06:13] <TheMuso> Yeah you said as much.
[06:13] <evand> TheMuso: I imagine those options are carried over from when Wubi used the alternate CD
[06:14] <evand> But that would be a nice temporary workaround.
[06:14] <TheMuso> evand: Right, because thats another option, and I think wubi should detect what CD is being used, and act accordingly///
[06:14] <evand> I don't believe it even uses the alternate CD anymore.
[06:14] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[06:15] <TheMuso> Makes sense.
[06:16] <evand> I'll mention the idea of moving the locale and keyboard into the preseed file to Ago tomorrow (er, later today :) )
[06:17] <TheMuso> Ok, because I think its our best bet, as they really don't need to be on the command-line, IMO.
[06:17] <evand> indeed, though I'd still like to fix that bug as it's eventually going to bite us again, I imagine.
[06:18] <TheMuso> Likely enough, yes.
[07:32] <superm1> cjwatson, could you tell me what part of d-i is causing this stub to come up? http://imagebin.org/14534
[07:32] <superm1> we don't need language support in our alternate disk (and languages are not in our seeds), so it'd be more ideal for that to not show
[08:34] <cjwatson> superm1: that's pkgsel; preseed pkgsel/install-language-support to true or false (I assume false) to get rid of it
[08:36] <cjwatson> 256 bytes> odd, the kernel has #define COMMAND_LINE_SIZE 2048
[09:20] <tjaalton> cjwatson: is there something missing that prevents using relatime by default? didn't we decide that it would be good to have?-)
[09:26] <cjwatson> mostly, a technical difficulty inside partman with regard to picking any default mount options
[09:27] <cjwatson> might be able to do something though
[09:31] <tjaalton> cjwatson: partman-base?
[09:32] <cjwatson> no, a mix of other partman-*
[09:32] <cjwatson> p.s. please don't reassign stuff to plain 'partman' - it doesn't exist
[09:33] <cjwatson> I'll have a look at it
[09:33] <tjaalton> yeah, there was some bug recently..
[09:34] <cjwatson> I know, I've got it here
[09:34] <tjaalton> ah so it was exactly this one :)
[09:34] <tjaalton> duh
[09:34]  * tjaalton handles too many bugs..
[09:36] <tjaalton> anyway, thanks for having a stab at it
[10:15] <CIA-24> user-setup: cjwatson * r99 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog functions.sh):
[10:15] <CIA-24> user-setup: * Make is_system_user always return false if OVERRIDE_SYSTEM_USER is set
[10:15] <CIA-24> user-setup:  (LP: #153310).
[10:19] <CIA-24> user-setup: cjwatson * r100 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.16ubuntu5
[10:25] <CIA-24> oem-config: cjwatson * r424 oem-config/ (debian/changelog scripts/user-setup-wrapper):
[10:25] <CIA-24> oem-config: * Allow user creation even if a non-system user already exists (thanks,
[10:25] <CIA-24> oem-config:  Torsten Spindler; LP: #153310).
[10:56]  * cjwatson blinks
[10:56] <cjwatson> 'EXT3-fs: Unrecognized mount option "relatime" or missing value'
[10:56] <cjwatson> I thought we had all the support we needed?
[10:57] <cjwatson> oh, maybe mount is supposed to translate it
[11:06] <xivulon> what this the max strlen for the kernel commandline options?
[11:10] <xivulon> seems to be 2048, but I still get a truncated string at 256, evand had a patch for grub4dos
[11:11] <xivulon> will need to recheck my testing rig
[11:13] <cjwatson> as far as the kernel itself goes I believe it is 2048; there are several places along the way it could be truncated though
[13:15] <CIA-24> partman-partitioning: cjwatson * r666 ubuntu/ (debian/changelog free_space/new/do_option):
[13:15] <CIA-24> partman-partitioning: * When creating a new filesystem, set the default mount options to the
[13:15] <CIA-24> partman-partitioning:  contents of /lib/partman/mountoptions/${fs}_defaults if it exists
[13:15] <CIA-24> partman-partitioning:  (LP: #160450).
[13:16] <CIA-24> partman-partitioning: cjwatson * r667 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 54ubuntu3
[13:32] <CIA-24> debian-installer: cjwatson * r892 ubuntu/debian/changelog: * No-change rebuild to pick up new components (busybox 1:1.1.3-5ubuntu12).
[13:34] <CIA-24> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r556 ubuntu/ (mountoptions/ext2_defaults debian/changelog): * Default to mounting ext2 with relatime (LP: #160450).
[14:06] <evand> the kernel itself is 4096 on x86, iirc.
[14:07] <CIA-24> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r557 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog partman-basicfilesystems.templates): * Add Choices-C entries for mount options.
[14:11] <xivulon> do you rekon it is better to try to fix the truncation or do a workaround to shorten the cmdline?
[14:12] <xivulon> I mean, of course the first option is better, but not sure what sort of work is involved (wrt "several places").
[14:13] <evand> I think we should go with the workaround anyway (as discussed in PM, we're not using the alternate CD), but continue to try and find the source of the bug.
[14:14] <evand> locale and layout can be preseeded in the preseed file on the desktop CD.  The accessibility stuff needs to remain on the kernel cmdline though.
[14:14] <evand> As it's part of casper.
[14:16] <xivulon> I'd need "initrd" preseeding, in the sense that the settings are read in casper-premount off hard disk
[14:17] <xivulon> Do not think that any question is really needed before casper-premount
[14:17] <xivulon> might even be possible to pass accessibility stuff in there
[14:18] <xivulon> Also in lupin, we might want shorter aliases for "iso-scan/filename" and "debian-installer/custom-installation"
[14:18] <xivulon> I'd suggest "isoscan" and "c-i"
[14:20] <evand> The accessibility stuff has to be on the kernel cmdline, aiui.  I don't think shorter aliases are necessary.  Moving the locale and layout preseeded questions to a file should be sufficient.
[14:21] <xivulon> In my case locale/layout/variant are also in preseed, the preseed file is copied to initrd / during casper-premount and the options are imported in casper-bottom (iirc)
[14:22] <xivulon> ithat basically should be +/- equivalent to initrd preseeding
[14:22] <cjwatson> casper could process the accessibility stuff when reading the preseed file
[14:22] <xivulon> yes, that is something I was thinking
[14:23] <cjwatson> putting the locale in the preseed file doesn't actually work right now, I think, but could be made to
[14:23] <xivulon> as mentioned the preseed file is first seen in casper-premount but processed in casper-bottom
[14:24] <cjwatson> I would definitely recommend finding the source of the truncation; that causes all kinds of irritating problems
[14:24] <evand> I'm confused, are you saying we modify casper to do such a thing?  Because the accessibility stuff isn't a debconf question.  Also, I thought the locale in the preseed file worked as we're using the desktop CD and the preseed file doesn't get read until very late anyway.
[14:24] <tjaalton> syslinux should allow at least 512 chars
[14:24] <cjwatson> evand: oh, good point
[14:24] <evand> indeed, I shared that thought last night.
[14:24] <cjwatson> (not in debconf)
[14:25] <evand> I know it will bite us eventually :)
[14:25] <xivulon> I could grep out the relevant values from the preseed or another file and set things separately in pre-mount
[14:26] <evand> As it stands we're only two characters shy of fitting the whole thing, I don't think drastic measures are needed.  Stripping out the debconf preseeds should be more than sufficient.
[14:26] <xivulon> cjwatson locale preseeding does not work, what about keyboard layout/variant?
[14:26] <xivulon> do I need commandline too for those
[14:27] <xivulon> evand I think we need a bit more than 2 chars, particularly if we want accessibility in there
[14:28] <xivulon> we now also have "noprompt" in there
[14:28] <evand> ah, I forgot about that.  Still, that's 11 bytes.  The debconf questions still cover that.
[14:29] <evand> the removal of them, that is.
[14:30] <xivulon> evand can you have a quick wubi run and let me know what things should be removed from commandline and what added to preseed?
[14:30] <evand> will do
[14:30] <xivulon> if you press esc at boot you also have options such as vebose mode ans safe graphic mode that may add a few bytes
[14:31] <xivulon> relevant files are /ubuntu/install/boot/grub/menu.lst and /ubuntu/install/custom-installation/preseed.cfg
[14:32] <evand> tjaalton: my suspicion is that it's grub4dos' fault.  syslinux works fine, but wubi doesn't make use of it.
[14:32] <xivulon> ah
[14:36] <evand> cjwatson: so you suggested that I was correct about the accessibility stuff, but is there a problem with preseeding locale in a file for ubiquity that I'm not seeing?
[14:37] <tjaalton> evand: ah, right
[14:38] <cjwatson> evand: locale is configured in 14locales; preseed file is read in 24preseed and doesn't duplicate the work
[14:38] <cjwatson> it will preseed it successfully for ubiquity, probably, but not for the running live system
[14:39] <evand> ah, hrm.
[14:47] <xivulon> will send an email to bean123/tinybit
[14:48] <tjaalton> hmm, partman-auto/purge_lvm_from_device doesn't seem to work anymore, what's the replacement?
[15:13] <evand> The longest option is 298 bytes.  Removing console-setup/layoutcode and console-setup/variant code brings us down to 243.
[15:20] <xivulon> will upload the changes tonight
[15:22] <evand> thanks
[15:26] <superm1> cjwatson, thanks.  would you mind merging that from the debian-cd branch at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mythbuntu/debian-cd/mythbuntu-debiancd/
[15:26] <superm1>  then?
[15:30] <evand> which reminds me, I need to dig for those instructions now that I have my IRC server back up and running.
[15:30] <cjwatson> superm1: done
[15:30] <superm1> thanks
[15:31] <superm1> i might have a few more task related questions, but we'll see how the next daily pans out now
[16:00] <evand> cjwatson: what are your thoughts on having a wubi download link on ubuntu.com?
[16:01] <evand> personally I like the idea
[16:01] <xivulon> as mentioned at UDS, I'd be glad to donate/redirect wubi-installer.org domain
[16:01] <evand> as does xivulon :)
[16:01] <xivulon> ...and xivulon wife (most importantly)...
[16:02] <evand> heh
[16:11] <CIA-24> oem-config: evand * r425 oem-config/ (debian/changelog lib/frontend/gtk_ui.py lib/zoommap.py): * Port zoommap fixes from ubiquity.
[16:18] <CIA-24> ubiquity: evand * r2537 ubiquity/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog debian/control):
[16:18] <CIA-24> ubiquity: * Automatic update of included source packages: choose-mirror
[16:18] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  2.19ubuntu2, console-setup 1.21ubuntu4, localechooser 1.42ubuntu2,
[16:18] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  partman-base 114ubuntu3, partman-basicmethods 38ubuntu1, partman-jfs
[16:18] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  25, partman-partitioning 54ubuntu3, partman-target 54ubuntu1, user-
[16:18] <CIA-24> ubiquity:  setup 1.16ubuntu5.
[16:42] <CIA-24> ubiquity: evand * r2538 ubiquity/debian/changelog: releasing version 1.7.15
[16:44] <CIA-24> ubiquity: evand * r2539 ubiquity/ (configure configure.ac): Bump to 1.7.16
[16:45] <evand> cjwatson: any objection to me putting out a new oem-config?
[16:45] <cjwatson> go ahead
[16:48] <evand> thanks, will do
[16:49] <CIA-24> oem-config: evand * r426 oem-config/ (d-i/manifest debian/changelog):
[16:49] <CIA-24> oem-config: * Automatic update of included source packages: console-setup
[16:49] <CIA-24> oem-config:  1.21ubuntu4, user-setup 1.16ubuntu5.
[17:03] <cr3> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg does not seem to prompt for the video driver anymore, is this a known change?
[17:04] <cjwatson> #ubuntu-x
[17:04] <cjwatson> that sort of thing is entirely up to the package's maintainer scripts
[17:06] <cr3> thanks, I thought it might've been a debconf thing because specifying -plow didn't change anything. actually, specifying -pfoo had the same effect and didn't give any errors
[17:09] <cjwatson> it's not a debconf problem
[17:09] <cjwatson> -plow doesn't invent questions that the maintainer scripts don't ask. :-)
[17:11] <CIA-24> oem-config: evand * r427 oem-config/ (configure configure.ac): Bump to 1.32
[17:11] <CIA-24> oem-config: evand * r428 oem-config/ (debian/changelog gui/glade/step_timezone.glade):
[17:11] <CIA-24> oem-config: * Use a GtkEventBox rather than a GtkScrolledWindow for the tzmap to
[17:11] <CIA-24> oem-config:  match ubiquity (LP: #198179)
[17:12] <evand> cjwatson: did you miss the question about a link to wubi on the ubuntu.com site, or is it something that you need to give some thought?
[17:26] <cjwatson> I don't feel strongly; newz2000 would be the one to ask
[17:30] <evand> indeed, had already planned on it, just wanted to run it by you first
[17:30] <evand> ok, thanks
[17:31] <evand> xivulon: if you could start a conversation with Matthew Nuzum for what you'd like to have done and CC me on it, I'd very much appreciate it.
[17:31] <xivulon> will do
[17:32] <evand> thanks
[20:10] <CIA-24> debian-installer: cjwatson * r893 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 20070308ubuntu32
[20:14] <TheMuso> I'd be happy to help change the accessibility code to read from the preceed file if that makes things any easier...
[20:16] <CIA-24> partman-basicfilesystems: cjwatson * r558 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 56ubuntu3
[20:20] <CIA-24> partman-ext3: cjwatson * r731 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog partman-ext3.templates): * Add Choices-C entries for mount options.
[20:20] <CIA-24> partman-ext3: cjwatson * r732 ubuntu/ (mountoptions/ext3_defaults debian/changelog): * Default to mounting ext3 with relatime (LP: #160450).
[20:20] <CIA-24> partman-ext3: cjwatson * r733 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 49ubuntu2
[20:21] <CIA-24> partman-jfs: cjwatson * r719 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog partman-jfs.templates): * Add Choices-C entries for mount options.
[20:21] <CIA-24> partman-jfs: cjwatson * r720 ubuntu/ (mountoptions/jfs_defaults debian/changelog): * Default to mounting jfs with relatime (LP: #160450).
[20:21] <CIA-24> partman-jfs: cjwatson * r721 ubuntu/debian/control: Ubuntu maintainer address
[20:22] <CIA-24> partman-jfs: cjwatson * r722 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 25ubuntu1
[20:22] <CIA-24> partman-reiserfs: cjwatson * r798 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog partman-reiserfs.templates): * Add Choices-C entries for mount options.
[20:22] <CIA-24> partman-reiserfs: cjwatson * r799 ubuntu/ (mountoptions/reiserfs_defaults debian/changelog): * Default to mounting reiserfs with relatime (LP: #160450).
[20:22] <CIA-24> partman-reiserfs: cjwatson * r800 ubuntu/debian/control: Ubuntu maintainer address
[20:23] <CIA-24> partman-reiserfs: cjwatson * r801 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 39ubuntu1
[20:23] <CIA-24> partman-xfs: cjwatson * r751 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog partman-xfs.templates): * Add Choices-C entries for mount options.
[20:23] <CIA-24> partman-xfs: cjwatson * r752 ubuntu/ (mountoptions/xfs_defaults debian/changelog): * Default to mounting xfs with relatime (LP: #160450).
[20:24] <CIA-24> partman-xfs: cjwatson * r753 ubuntu/debian/control: Ubuntu maintainer address
[20:25] <CIA-24> partman-xfs: cjwatson * r754 ubuntu/debian/changelog: releasing version 35ubuntu1
[20:30] <twb> I'm having trouble customizing the live system so it has both the correct time and the correct timezone.
[20:31] <twb> Simply fixing the /etc/localtime link within filesystem.squashfs and deleting the casper-bottom/02timezone script (and rebuilding the ramdisk) results in the correct timezone, but the wrong actual time -- until I run `ntpdate-debian -u' from the running live system.
[20:37] <evand> TheMuso: Thanks, but I don't think it will be necessary and I'd like to avoid making any large changes like that as part of the workaround.
[20:38] <TheMuso> evand: Fair enough, I'm of the same thought as well, but if there is no other options...
[20:45] <evand> TheMuso: indeed :)
[20:46] <TheMuso> evand: Had a chance to do any dmraid testing?
[20:47] <evand> TheMuso: thought you might ask.  That's my plan for all of this evening leading up to the meeting.  I only just got settled in and unpacked yesterday.
[20:48] <TheMuso> evand: Fair enough, I'll be around if you need me.
[20:48] <evand> great
[20:50] <TheMuso> As for getting it into hardy however, thats another story. The support folks don't feel that its something that they want to support, especially since it may give Ubuntu more of a bad rep t han anything. The example given was someone using fakeraid who has/gets a support contract with Canonical...
[20:54] <twb> Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely the OS just sees a normal disk when using fakeraid?
[20:55] <TheMuso> twb: No thats not the case at all.
[20:56] <TheMuso> twb: Fakeraid is made up with a BIOS that writes special metadata to the hard disks, and in Windows' case, drivers that read that metadata and transparently handle the RAID functionality.
[20:56] <cjwatson> if that were the case, it would be easy :-/
[20:56] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Exactly.
[20:58] <cjwatson> from everything that's been said, I'm coming round to deferring it
[20:58] <cjwatson> which is a shame, but we *did* start on it kind of late, and didn't promise anything
[21:00] <TheMuso> Yeah its a shame, as I do have a slight vested interest in it also. I am tracking upstream progress however, and will keep everybody posted, and will see what we can do for intrepid.
[21:01] <twb> Oh well.  Fakeraid is pretty silly when you had md.
[21:02] <TheMuso> twb: Yes, but just about every consumer/prosumer/low-end server board comes with it these days, and most people don't know any; better.
[21:02] <cjwatson> from the point of view of specifying a system, yes; from the point of view of having a fakeraid system already and trying to put Ubuntu on it ...
[21:03] <TheMuso> And yes, there is what cjwatson said regarding dual booting/installing Ubuntu onto an existing fakeraid.
[21:03] <cjwatson> I'll find the master bug about dmraid support and pass it over to you (remind me if I don't); it could do with an "official"-looking update on status
[21:03] <twb> So ubiquity supports md and lvm now?
[21:03] <TheMuso> cjwatson: Ok.
[21:07] <TheMuso> evand: Nevertheless, it would be interesting to see how those fakeraid BIOSs you have behave, as well as any Windows tools that may be available for them.
[21:07] <TheMuso> As we could at least mention something about different controllers.
[21:11] <cjwatson> twb: no
[21:12] <cjwatson> but nor was it planned for it to support dmraid in this cycle
[21:12] <cjwatson> (the discussion above was just for dmraid support at all, and in d-i)
[21:12] <twb> Fair enough.
[21:12] <cjwatson> it's on my list for the 8.10 UDS
[21:12] <evand> TheMuso: indeed, I still plan on investigating this.
[21:12] <twb> UDS?
[21:13] <cjwatson> Ubuntu Developer Summit
[21:13] <evand> LVM and RAID in ubiquity is?
[21:13] <cjwatson> dmraid is
[21:13] <evand> ah, indeed
[21:15] <twb> Well, I "fixed" my clock grief issue by running ntpdate-debian -s -u at the end of /etc/rc2.d.  That means something in rcS.d or rc2.d is doing something dumb w.r.t. the clock, and (bizarrely) ntpd -g isn't fixing it.
[21:24] <TheMuso> cjwatson: I'd be happy to help/draft a spec for dmraid if need be.
[21:26] <cjwatson> that would be good