[00:00] <lime4x4> is is just me or is network places broken again
[01:16] <richard__> I have alpha 6 fever! :D
[01:16] <rsk> oooo
[01:16] <richard__> \o/
[01:17] <lime4x4> i take it places/network is broken again
[01:19] <Dr_willis> Ive not seen it work every...
[01:19] <Dr_willis> ever. :)
[01:19] <Dr_willis> i cant get the fusesmb thing working either.
[01:20] <lime4x4> it was working fine for me a few days ago then they had some nautilus and gvfs updates now it doesn't work again
[01:22] <ki4cgp> I deleted some of my older vmlinuz & initrd.img stuff from /boot. I wasn't paying attention and I deleted my newest version as well.  I have managed to get back initrd-image by uninstalling and reinstalling but which packages do I need to do to get the rest back?
[01:27] <lime4x4> is it worth the aggravation of install 64bit for a dual core duo?
[01:28] <RAOF> lime4x4: Sorry; the best answer I can give with the current information is "maybe".
[01:28] <lime4x4> sorry for got the rest
[01:28] <RAOF> Interesting context includes: how much RAM do you have?  How much heavy processing work do you do?  How much do you care about flash?
[01:29] <lime4x4> i do alot of video work converting avi's to dvd and graphic work
[01:29] <lime4x4> 4 gigs of ram
[01:29] <RAOF> 64bit.
[01:29] <RAOF> 4GB is the very limit of 32bit addressing, and you'll lose some to various memory-mapped devices.
[01:30] <lime4x4> flas would be nice i assume eventually it will be working
[01:30] <RAOF> Also, x86-64 has fewer stupid design limitations than IA32, which means that a fair set of code runs significantly faster under x86-64
[01:31] <RAOF> Flash can work - we have a 32bit compatibility layer, and a 32-to-64 bit firefox plugin loader.  But flash is less stable under 64bit, because of the extra layers.
[01:32] <lime4x4> okay maybe this weekend i'll have time to reinstall hardy 64 bit this weekend
[01:33] <ki4cgp> I deleted some of my older vmlinuz & initrd.img stuff from /boot. I wasn't paying attention and I deleted my newest version as well.  I have managed to get back initrd-image by uninstalling and reinstalling but which packages do I need to do to get the rest back?
[01:33] <lime4x4> one of the advantages of having /home on a seperate hard drive
[01:34] <danage> hi - does anybody else here run hardy alpha and get the problem that the root user doesn't work anymore. sudo just kicks me back to command prompt
[01:37] <scizzo-> danage: nope
[01:37] <Dr_willis> lime4x4,  makes it much easier to reinstall the os - keeping the user data safe
[01:37] <lime4x4> sudo works here just fine
[01:37] <danage> scizzo-: nope you dont run it or nope you dont have the problem
[01:37] <scizzo-> danage: probably not in the visudo file
[01:37] <Dr_willis> lime4x4,  i also find it faster. :) while running.
[01:38] <scizzo-> danage: nope as in no problem here with sudo
[01:38] <lime4x4> yeap just have to remember all the apps i had installed along with all the tweaks
[01:38] <danage> are you on the latest updates
[01:38] <Dr_willis> lime4x4,  for a lot of video work. You may even benifit from haveing a data drive just for video work.
[01:38] <scizzo-> danage: yes
[01:38] <lime4x4> i just updated 5 min ago
[01:38] <danage> darnit
[01:38] <danage> i cannot sudo -s, or su
[01:38] <danage> sudo will accept the pass, but kick me back to the shell without changing the user
[01:38] <danage> su will tell me authetication failed
[01:39] <scizzo-> you have more then one user on the system?
[01:39] <lime4x4> Drwillis i do i have a seperate 160 gig sata drive that i use as /tmp
[01:39] <danage> scizzo-: i have a user user and root, i suppose
[01:39] <crimsun_> danage: sanity-check: is the user in the admin group or explicitly given in sudoers?
[01:40] <danage> i suppose the user is not in the admin group, since i need to type in root passwd for update manager (this is where i initially found out the problem existed)
[01:40] <scizzo-> danage: but is this a new user?
[01:40] <danage> who? root or my user
[01:40] <scizzo-> danage: you can see what groups the user is in with: groups command
[01:40] <crimsun_> danage: no, you're misunderstanding.  Please ensure that your user is in the admin group.
[01:41] <danage> my user i have been using ever since i installed
[01:41] <danage> dennis@Computer:/etc$ groups
[01:41] <danage> dennis vboxusers
[01:41] <crimsun_> there you go.
[01:41] <scizzo-> right....its not a admin user
[01:41] <danage> ok.
[01:41] <scizzo-> like crimsun_ said...
[01:41] <danage> well, it never was
[01:41] <danage> is that a problem?
[01:42] <crimsun_> if it's an *ubuntu install, that will prevent you from executing sudo successfully.
[01:42] <scizzo-> danage: for doing admin tasks yes
[01:42] <scizzo-> danage: to be able to run sudo stuff...the user needs sudo access or adm group access depending on the task
[01:43] <scizzo-> !sudo
[01:43] <ubotu> sudo is a command to run programs with superuser privileges ("root"). Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo for more information.
[01:43] <danage> hm, please help me here
[01:43] <danage> why did it work before
[01:43] <danage> and not anymore
[01:43] <crimsun_> is this a new user that you created (possibly in a VM)?
[01:43] <scizzo-> danage: changed user, groups changed, the user was removed and added again..various reasons
[01:44] <danage> crimsun_: no but i added the vboxusers to his privileges
[01:44] <danage> i might have overwritten something?
[01:44] <crimsun_> danage: well, something or someone removed your user from quite a few groups.
[01:44] <scizzo-> danage: with: usermod -G group or something simular?
[01:44] <danage> yes
[01:44] <scizzo-> danage: man usermod
[01:44] <danage> dammit
[01:44] <danage> :)
[01:44] <scizzo-> danage: see what -G does
[01:44] <danage> dammit
[01:45] <scizzo-> danage: it overwrites _ALL_ existing groups for that user
[01:45] <danage> sh...........
[01:45] <danage> what do i need to restore?
[01:45] <scizzo-> danage: its a "Know what you are doing" tag... ;)
[01:45] <danage> i thought it would append
[01:45] <danage> oh well
[01:45] <scizzo-> danage: hmmmm you have more users with sudo priviliges?
[01:45] <danage> could you point me where i can read how to restore?
[01:45] <danage> scizzo-: nope
[01:46] <danage> oh oh
[01:46] <crimsun_> on a Debian-based system, please use adduser :)
[01:46] <crimsun_> adduser someuser somegroup
[01:46] <danage> does that mean i'm.... in trouble?
[01:46] <scizzo-> danage: I think you can run a recovery mode to change the groups
[01:46] <danage> dennis@Computer:/etc$ adduser dennis admin
[01:46] <danage> adduser: Only root may add a user or group to the system.
[01:46] <crimsun_> (yes, it requires superuser privileges)
[01:46] <scizzo-> danage: or run it in single-user mode
[01:47] <danage> d'oh
[01:47] <danage> ok so in gdm, i select recovery
[01:47] <danage> and then...
[01:47] <crimsun_> s#gdm#grub#
[01:48] <danage> in the bash?
[01:48] <scizzo-> danage: in the grub menu.....
[01:48] <scizzo-> danage: that is the kernel choice menu
[01:48] <scizzo-> danage: then try to change the group from the recovery mode
[01:49] <scizzo-> danage: long time since I did a single user mode access to be honest
[01:49] <scizzo-> crimsun_: you know the single-user mode thingy?
[01:49] <danage> ok
[01:50] <crimsun_> scizzo-: sure, what's up?
[01:50] <scizzo-> crimsun_: I mean how he can access it
[01:50] <crimsun_> sure, he needs to reboot and choose the recovery option in grub
[01:50] <danage> ok
[01:50] <crimsun_> (rather, the topmost recovery one if he has multiple)
[01:50] <danage> ok
[01:51] <danage> that will give me a regular console
[01:51] <danage> how do i restore the groups file?
[01:51] <crimsun_> you don't need to restore the groups file
[01:51] <crimsun_> just use: adduser dennis admin
[01:52] <crimsun_> then: logout
[01:52] <crimsun_> and it should continue booting normally
[01:52] <danage> ok
[01:52] <crimsun_> after that, you can log in and readd yourself to the default set of groups
[01:52] <danage> thanks
[01:52] <danage> will try
[01:53] <danage> i love hardy btw :)
[01:53] <knix> you give me a hardy
[01:53] <lunks> Not sure if it's a Hardy's faulty, but my usb mouse isn't working. It shows on dmesg, though.
[01:53] <Pici> !language | knix
[01:53] <ubotu> knix: Please watch your language and topic to help keep this channel family friendly.
[01:54] <danage> will try now, later!
[01:55] <knix> =(
[02:04] <gilster> i need some help. getting the gnome-settings-daemon error. how do i get this working?
[02:05] <gilster> any help?
[02:13] <lunks> Not sure if it's a Hardy's faulty, but my usb mouse isn't working. It shows on dmesg, though.
[02:14] <scizzo-> mouse not moving or something like that?
[02:22] <lunks> scizzo-, it's not moving the cursor at all. :P
[02:22] <lunks> scizzo-, i'm on a notebook, so I'm using a touchpad.
[02:22] <scizzo-> lunks: aaaa....so you want to be able to use 2 mice?
[02:22] <lunks> scizzo-, yeah
[02:23] <lunks> scizzo-, I've got 2 sections on my xorg.conf already, but probably I'm missing something
[02:23] <lunks> http://pastebin.ca/928423
[02:23] <lunks> my xorg.conf
[02:23] <lunks> But look like it doesn't miss anything now, but it still won't work.
[02:24] <AutoMatriX> hi folks
[02:24] <scizzo-> lunks: try to use another protocol on the configured mouse
[02:24] <scizzo-> lunks: like "ImPS/2"
[02:25] <AutoMatriX> I just tried to reinstall hardy 5 but my CD-rom player just broke down
[02:25] <scizzo-> lunks: oo wait
[02:25] <AutoMatriX> is there a possibility to do a 'direct' net install ?
[02:26] <lunks> AutoMatriX, have you tried unetbootin?
[02:26] <lunks> AutoMatriX, I dunno what version of hardy it'll install, though
[02:28] <scizzo-> lunks: it seems that most people are using /dev/psaux for the touchpad and /dev/input/mice for the configure mouse
[02:29] <DanaG> I'll netbootin U!  (joke.)
[02:29] <lunks> scizzo-, yeah, but would that work?
[02:29] <scizzo-> lunks: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=348115
[02:29] <scizzo-> lunks: looks like a good testing guide
[02:29] <DanaG> Or more like, net unetSPLITin. (bad joke.)
[02:30] <lunks> scizzo-, I'll try, thanks
[02:31] <lunks> scizzo-, looks good, indeed =D
[02:31] <scizzo-> lunks: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/188351
[02:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 188351 in xorg "[Hardy] External mouse on laptop will only double-click" [High,Incomplete]
[02:31] <scizzo-> lunks: check that also
[02:31] <lunks> I've checked, that would not be it
[02:31] <scizzo-> lunks: might give some ideas of what might be wrong
[02:31] <lunks> scizzo-, But that howto looks like a great guess... I've googled for it and didn't find it
[02:31] <lunks> Hang on, I'll try and reply you with the result
[02:32] <DanaG> Oh, another broken thing: udev.
[02:32] <DanaG> err, evdev.
[02:36] <AutoMatriX_> can one use the mini install.iso to install hardy ?
[02:42] <DanaG> Gaack, what's with the beep on lid open and close?
[02:45] <wastrel> ha
[02:45] <wastrel> yes i have that
[02:45] <DanaG> beep.  BEEP.  aagh.
[02:45] <Bambi_BOFH> any sugestions on debugging a system that freezes within a minute of booting to login console?
[02:46] <AutoMatriX_> is it possible to install hardy, getting the latest packets from the net, instead of installing the cd and doing upgrades afterwards ?
[02:46] <wastrel> you can upgrade from gusty
[02:46] <DanaG> here's what I did about the beep:   sudo chmod -v 000 /usr/share/gnome-power-manager/*lid*
[02:46] <DanaG> (makes it not readable or writable by anybody or anything).
[02:46] <wastrel> i usually have my sound turned off nayway
[02:47] <wastrel> it's a reminder : your sound is on!
[02:47] <AutoMatriX_> wastrel, I don't have gutsy on that machine, I tried a new installation bu tmy cd-dive just let me down
[02:48] <wastrel> iono then
[02:48] <AutoMatriX_> iono ?
[02:49] <Bambi_BOFH> or for that matter, a way to search on only relevent seeming bugs
[02:49] <lunks> scizzo-, didn't work =\ I even looked up on /dev/input what showed up when pluggin the usb mouse
[02:49] <lunks> And it didn't help either
[02:49] <wastrel> iono :  i don't know   but slangier/lazier
[02:49] <lunks> touchpad still works, usb mouse not moving =P
[02:50]  * kgoetz wonders if lunks uses ubuntu or debian
[02:50] <lunks> ubuntu =)
[02:50] <kgoetz> lunks: there should be a tool to control the touchpad, they often have a thing about using it and mice together
[02:50] <AutoMatriX_> wastrel, tx for upgrading my english vocabulary, at least I got some help here :D
[02:51] <wastrel> it's not english it's irc slang, horrible horrible irc slang
[02:51] <lunks> kgoetz, looked for the same help there, as ubuntu is debian based and I wasn't getting help on #ubuntu =D
[02:51] <wastrel> kgoetz: booting the rescue image work?
[02:51] <lunks> kgoetz, I can't seem to find this tool. :P
[02:53] <kgoetz> wastrel: i dont remember, i'll try it again to check. brb
[02:53] <scizzo-> lunks: hmm not sure then
[02:53] <scizzo-> lunks: need to sleep now anyways
[02:54] <lunks> scizzo-, k, I will keep trying here
[02:54] <lunks> thanks for the help =D
[02:55] <WorkingOnWise> with 32 bit Hardy, on a dual core AMD64 laptop, what is the more stable flash and java? from what is available in the repos.
[02:56] <lunks> brb
[02:57] <kgoetz> i find it somewhat bizare that on a server (without xorg) your given the option to repear it
[02:58] <lunks> Just dropped by to say it worked!
[02:59] <lunks> I had to set usb mouse to "CorePointer", on both device and layout sections, and sendcoreevents to touchpad.
[02:59] <lunks> On startup, touchpad didn't work, but after sometime it did.
[03:11]  * DanaG wishes there were a real touchpad config thingy that exposed ALL options.
[03:11] <DanaG> It'd be something like the Synaptics Windows control panel.
[03:25] <Andre_Gondim> what can I install to some java software works?
[03:25] <rhineheart_m> Is ebox already installed in hardy?
[03:31] <WorkingOnWise> what java plugin is most stable in 32 bit firefox on 32 bit ubuntu? same ??? for flash.
[03:35] <RAOF> WorkingOnWise: You'd be after the official Sun and Adobe plugins, respectively.  sun-java6-plugin or somesuch, and flashplugin-nonfree
[03:36] <WorkingOnWise> RAOF: thanks. kinda wha I thought. I have found myself in a position with my work that all of a sudden firefox with flash and java are the apps I use 90% now!
[03:37] <WorkingOnWise> but...I still want to be able to test and learn on Hardy, so I gotta run 32 bit for the greater stability....
[03:38]  * RAOF notes that it's still not recommended to run Hardy on any machine you might need to be working at any particular time in the future.
[03:44] <WorkingOnWise> lol...yeah..i figure it like this.... I ran MS stuff since 1992. Hardy is more stable that anything they got. Yeah, Gutsy is more so, and I would be more stable there, but Hardy has a few key aps that Gutsy is a little behind on...mainly Evolution. so..I take my chances, knowing that if I were like the 90, I'd be having more troubles and less fun with my laptop than on Hardy  :)
[03:44] <WorkingOnWise> oh...and I like blood
[03:44] <WorkingOnWise> hehe
[03:46] <jadacyrus> I upgraded to hardy, now I cant change my background in gnome. i click on the walpaper i want but it doesnt change until i ctrl+alt+backspace or reboot
[04:05] <cwillu> okay...
[04:05] <cwillu> _THAT_ is cool
[04:05] <cwillu> clicked a checkbox on my desktop, and another on the test machine
[04:05] <cwillu> and the test machine's sound started coming out of the speakers on my desktop :)
[04:06] <WorkingOnWise> what are u doing to pull that of?
[04:06] <cwillu> WorkingOnWise, absolutely nothing (I think)
[04:07] <cwillu> preferences | pulseaudio preferences
[04:07] <cwillu> turn on multicast receiver on the one side, and sender on the other
[04:07] <WorkingOnWise> ah...I gotta get up to speed on that...
[04:07] <WorkingOnWise> sweet
[04:11] <cwillu> now I just need to get dmx working, and I'm in nirvana
[04:13] <danage> crimsun, scizzo-, thanks for your help, it worked
[04:18] <rhineheart_m> Is hardy better comparing gutsy in server environment?
[04:23] <cwillu> rhineheart_m, that's one of those hard to answer questions
[04:23] <rhineheart_m> cwillu: what are you trying to say? gutsy is already stable and doing good in server ed?
[04:27] <cwillu> rhineheart_m, I'm trying to say that I don't know if it's possible to give an honest answer without knowing what you have in mind
[04:29] <Hobbsee> rhineheart_m: hardy will be better *after it releases*
[04:53] <pwnguin> does brainstorm support html markup?
[04:55] <ethana2> yarr
[04:55] <ethana2> VLC and PA
[04:55] <ethana2> what's the quickest way to remedy this?
[04:59] <RAOF> ethana2: sudo aptitude install libasound2-plugins && asoundconf set-pulseaudio
[05:01] <jadacyrus> I upgraded to hardy, now I cant change my background in gnome. i click on the walpaper i want but it doesnt change until i ctrl+alt+backspace or reboot
[05:13] <Raspberry> heh -- I broke openoffice :)
[05:13] <Raspberry> anybody here working on those packages?
[05:14] <Raspberry> 2.4 isn't 100% and 2.3 isn't happy ... I'm in a lurch
[05:18] <jadacyrus> im trying to change my wallpaper in gnome and it wont change
[05:22] <atrus> i've got a huge vfs.debug file in my home directory that's growing every second with no useful information i can see. is there a way to stop that?
[05:29] <J-_> Do you think it would be practical to install Hardy on a new Thinkpad, or should I wait?
[05:31] <RAOF> J-_: This depends on how much work you are expected to do on this new Thinkpad.
[05:32] <RAOF> J-_: If the thinkpad will ever be required to work at a specific time and place, I'd suggest not.  If it doesn't matter if things are broken for a couple of days, then maybe (and file bugs!)
[05:33] <atrus> it's still a little up and down on my lenovo 3000 n100.
[05:33] <J-_> RAOF: Well, it's not a production machine. And, yeah, bug reporting would be nice.
[05:33] <J-_> I juset bought a R61e
[05:33] <J-_> just*
[05:34] <J-_> I know it'll run nicely with my GM965 chipset, and open drivers.
[05:34] <J-_> Hopefully anyway
[05:35] <RAOF> J-_: If it's not your only machine, go for it.  Hardy is settling down somewhat.  As long as you're familiar with the apt package system (and carefully read what it's going to do when you update), Hardy should be fine.
[05:35] <J-_> Amaranth told me it would anyway. (sorry if you're busy, had to give you credit)
[05:35] <J-_> Cool
[05:36] <J-_> RAOF: What would I need to know? I'm quite familiar with apt. Been running Ubuntu for a few years now I think.
[05:36] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> banshee is written on c#?
[05:37] <RAOF> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Yes.
[05:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, shock
[05:38] <J-_> Which hardy CD should I download for a Core 2 Duo?
[05:38] <RAOF> J-_: Just a familiarity.  Probably updating with aptitude (and carefully checking that it's not going to be removing something critical) is good.
[05:38] <J-_> I've always used x86 cd
[05:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, i386
[05:38] <RAOF> x86 will work, as will x86-64.  Which you want depends on what you want from your machine.
[05:38] <J-_> Never had a core 2 duo before(just arrived today)
[05:38] <RAOF> Oh, and how much RAM you have.
[05:38] <J-_> 2gb
[05:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> x86, sorry
[05:39] <Hydrogen> banshee is written in bad.
[05:39] <RAOF> J-_: Well, that should be supported fine with either x86 or x86-64.
[05:40] <RAOF> x86-64 is faster for some things, but unless you're really hitting the CPU this is generally unnoticable.
[05:40]  * RAOF fails his will save
[05:40] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Hydrogen, no suprise
[05:40] <RAOF> Hydrogen: How so?
[05:40] <Hydrogen> RAOF: 1) it uses gtk 2) it uses mono 3) it tries to clone itunes
[05:41] <J-_> x86 or x86-64 means, PC(intel x86) desktop CD) or 64-bit PC (AMD64) desktop cd?
[05:41] <RAOF> J-_: x86-64 is less supported by annoying proprietary vendors (flash, java, mainly)
[05:41] <Hydrogen> I'm pretty sure that the sum of those three is something around absolute zero
[05:41] <RAOF> J-_: AMD64 is x86-64
[05:41] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, x86_64 is for both amd64 or intel_64
[05:41] <J-_> RAOF: K that clears it up =) Will I have to switch anything in bios if I use x86?
[05:42] <RAOF> No.
[05:42] <J-_> yay!
[05:42] <J-_> Thanks a lot
[05:43] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Hydrogen, lol
[05:43] <J-_> So, I guess I'll go with x86 for now, then switch to x86-64 after it is supported.
[05:44] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, i doubt that x86-64 will be well supported ever
[05:44] <J-_> K
[05:45] <J-_> Is there any difference in performance?
[05:45] <J-_> Will anything be not used in x86 than x86-64?
[05:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, if u have any applications built to take the advantage of 64 bits, yes
[05:46] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> no
[05:46] <J-_> ah okay, cool. Makes sense
[05:46] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> 4g of ram
[05:46] <RAOF> J-_: Not really.  You won't be able to run 64bit code, but you probably don't care.
[05:46] <J-_> RAOF: exactly =)
[05:47] <J-_> I just hope hardy doesn't break my lappy.
[05:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> i really wander how fast will it be with 4g of ram
[05:47] <J-_> I'll scream, possibly go insane a little.
[05:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, wat model is ur laggy?
[05:47] <RAOF> The x86-64 architecture relaxes some of the stupid limitations of IA32, so code built for x86-64 is generally a bit faster.  But you probably won't care.
[05:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lappy*
[05:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> lol
[05:47] <J-_> Thinkpad R61e
[05:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, hi mine is t61p
[05:48] <RAOF> [Hardy]TuTUXG: x86-64 is well supported right now.  Just not by closed-source annoyances :)
[05:48] <J-_> Core 2 Duo  @ 2Ghz, GM965 chipset, 2gb RAM, Intel PRO wireless.
[05:49] <RAOF> Which will probably change shortly, as the standard ram loadout exceeds the 32bit address space.
[05:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, i thought java is open source?
[05:49] <J-_> ...ohlawd
[05:49] <RAOF> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Kinda.
[05:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, sweet
[05:49] <J-_> I just hope it runs well.
[05:50] <J-_> 15.4"
[05:50] <RAOF> Some of java is open source, and the rest will be.  But you can't currently build a Sun java environment from open code.
[05:50] <RAOF> Which is why icedtea exists - it's a temporary open-source fork of OpenJDK.
[05:50] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, im learning java now and sun-java is terrible with 64bit
[05:50]  * J-_ wonders if the newer Transmission is in get deb
[05:50] <J-_> getdeb*
[05:50] <RAOF> J-_: Newer than 1.0.6, or whatever is in Hardy?
[05:51] <J-_> yes, newer than what is in Gutsy
[05:51] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> I thought hardy has the newest stable version
[05:51] <RAOF> I believe it does, yes.
[05:51] <J-_> 1.06 is there
[05:51] <RAOF> [Hardy]TuTUXG: What's wrong with 64bit java?  Apart from the lack of a browser plugin, of course.
[05:52] <RAOF> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Heh, maybe you should run it in the Mono VM with ikvm :P
[05:52] <J-_> RAOF: that would definitely suck. I watch a lot of youtube myself. =P
[05:52] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, browser plugin is big problem
[05:53] <RAOF> There is an icedtea plugin, but icedtea != Sun java.  It's still a bit incomplete.
[05:54] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> my university teaches sun java
[05:54] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> and we need to learn java-applet
[05:54] <RAOF> So did mine.
[05:54] <RAOF> Urgh.
[05:54] <RAOF> Well, they're pretty simple.  It's just Java without a main, inherited from an applet class.
[05:55] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> which means icedtea is probly not a good option
[05:55] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> the api is incomplete
[05:56] <RAOF> You should be able to use it.  I'd imagine you're unlikely to hit the incomplete areas as a part of introductory Java.
[05:57] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, i agree with u
[05:57] <J-_> Man, I can't wait til my wrt54gl tomorrow. =D Going to put Tomato firmware on it.
[05:57] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, im just dont wanna take the risk
[05:57] <RAOF> Fair enough.
[05:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, i dont want my windows classmates say that linux sucks ;P
[05:58] <J-_> haha
[05:58] <J-_> It doesn't though. >.>
[05:59] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> they r stupid
[05:59] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> that's the problem
[05:59]  * J-_ will hopefully be all primed up tomorrow for the LUG meeting and the new Lappy.
[05:59] <J-_> with Hardy on it of course.
[06:00] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, hardy is pretty stable right now on my box
[06:00] <J-_> Nice
[06:01] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, but it's still alpha, so be aware
[06:01] <J-_> [Hardy]TuTUXG: which chipset do you have on it?
[06:01] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, same as urs
[06:01] <J-_> ohhh excellent.
[06:01] <J-_> I'm happy already
[06:01] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, graphic card?
[06:01] <J-_> integrated.
[06:02] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, i heard that the intel driver is little bit buggy
[06:02] <J-_> Hrm
[06:02] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> dont know if they fixed it
[06:02] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> RAOF, any idea?
[06:02] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> going to eat, brb
[06:02] <J-_> Cool, I was talking to a dev a couple weeks ago, he said everything should work awesome
[06:03] <J-_> I just hope so =P
[06:03]  * J-_ wonders if putting Ubuntu on the lappy, if it'll void my warranty
[06:04] <J-_> :shrug:
[06:04] <DanaG> Just watch the load-cycle issue.
[06:05] <J-_> Can't stand Vista, will be glad to have Hardy on it. Took me 5 minutes to see what resolution I was using.
[06:05] <RAOF> [Hardy]TuTUXG: About the intel graphics drivers?  They're not particularly buggy.  They've got pretty much the best support going.
[06:05] <J-_> ohh nice
[06:05] <RAOF> They *do* suffer from the problem that the whole linux & X acceleration architecture is in the process of being redesigned, but that's neither here nor there :)
[06:06] <J-_> hmm
[06:06] <J-_> RAOF: Is that bad?
[06:06] <RAOF> Not really.  It's just that they're not the super-fast drivers that should be available in, say a year's time.
[06:07] <J-_> ah okay.
[06:07] <RAOF> EXA performance really _needs_ the TTM work that's being done; the intel gallium driver is apparrently substantially faster than the current DRI, and will fix redirected-direct-rendering, et.
[06:07] <RAOF> Basically, they'll be much more awesome in 6 months or so.
[06:08] <J-_> It's not like I play games or anything. Although, I'd like to install CS:S in wine sometime. But that's just meh. I'd rather learn something worth doing like code.
[06:08] <J-_> nice
[06:10] <J-_> 1h before I get to burn Hardy. =D
[06:10]  * DanaG can't use Wine as long as it clashes with PulseAudio..... and as long as it changes my screen resolution without asking, for some apps, even when they're not set to fullscreen.
[06:10] <J-_> Oh yeah. I hope the Graphic installation works just as good as the Alternate.
[06:11] <J-_> hrm, no Pulse support?
[06:11] <J-_> Ah well
[06:11] <J-_> It's not like I play it a lot. I haven't had it install for probably 2 years now.
[06:11] <J-_> installed even
[06:11] <RAOF> Heh.  I've only just fixed a bug which made wine & pulse coexist peasefully.
[06:12] <J-_> hmm
[06:12] <RAOF> DanaG: Is that with "asoundconf set-pulseaudio"?  Sucks.
[06:16] <DanaG> YOu might want to rephrase the previous sentence -- it seems to say the opposite of what you intend.
[06:18] <RAOF> DanaG: No, it says exactly what I intended.  alsa-driver wasn't providing mixers correctly, so pulseaudio wasn't claiming the soundcard.  Wine uses alsa in a broken way, so it wasn't fazed by the lack of mixers and went merrily along.
[06:18] <RAOF> By fixing ALSA, wine no longer plays nicely with pulseaudio :)
[06:20] <RAOF> (And by fixing this, I mean "using module-assistant to build alsa-source")
[06:22] <Hobbsee> RAOF: when will it be done?
[06:22] <Hobbsee> oh, 6 months
[06:23] <RAOF> Hobbsee: You mean TTM/gallium?  Yeah.  It might make Intrepid.
[06:23] <Hobbsee> RAOF: well, intel drivers working nicely
[06:23] <Hobbsee> under exa
[06:26] <DanaG> aah, so the thing about pulseaudio was s/made/incorrectly let/
[06:26] <RAOF> I want the nouveau guys to make a release, so Intrepid can have nouveau instead of/as well as nv.
[06:30] <J-_> Will my GM965 chipset be comparable to my fx5200 nvidia card in my desktop or be any better? Usage wise?
[06:34] <RAOF> J-_: The driver situation is pretty much better for the Intel chip.  As far as performance, the fx5200 will probably stomp all over the Intel card.
[06:34] <J-_> ah cool
[06:34] <J-_> :shrug: =)
[06:34] <Amaranth> The Intel chip is missing some key features but is much more stable
[06:35] <J-_> Amaranth: Sorry for the bother earlier. =)
[06:35] <Amaranth> ?
[06:35] <J-_> Ah, I highlighted you
[06:35] <J-_> Guess it didn't do anything.
[06:36] <J-_> =D
[06:36] <Amaranth> oh, i was asleep
[06:37] <Amaranth> it most likely beeped very loud as i had forgotten to turn my speakers down
[06:37] <J-_> =|
[06:37] <J-_> Won't do that anymore then.
[06:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, take a look at thinkwiki.org when u install ubuntu, pretty helpful
[06:38] <Amaranth> J-_: Unless you're trying to get someone's attention it's considered polite to mangle their name a bit
[06:38] <J-_> [Hardy]TuTUXG: K
[06:38] <Amaranth> like A.maranth
[06:38] <Amaranth> not that I care
[06:38] <J-_> K
[06:39] <Amaranth> If you're talking about me I'd prefer you used my name plainly that way I can find out what you said about me :P
[06:39] <J-_> Amaranth: I got the Lappy today. =)
[06:39] <J-_> Exactly, that's why I pretty much did it.
[06:39] <Amaranth> J-_: I know, I said "Put hardy on that sucker"
[06:39] <Amaranth> And you said you hadn't even turned it on yet
[06:39] <J-_> hmm
[06:41] <Amaranth> btw, while the 965 does work well the driver for it is rather...simple
[06:41] <J-_> nice
[06:41] <Amaranth> so you can expect it to run faster, better, and more efficiently as time goes on
[06:42] <Amaranth> they're still optimizing :)
[06:42] <J-_> I can't wait
[06:42] <J-_> 61% done downloading the x86 iso.
[06:43] <J-_> If I wasn't quite lacking I would have already downloaded the darn thing. lol
[06:43] <J-_> days ago
[06:44] <Amaranth> What one are you getting?
[06:45] <Amaranth> also, why x86?
[06:46] <Amaranth> you have java programs that are closed-source and don't work with icedtea?
[06:46] <J-_> Hmm, figured it would be better with software support as said earlier...?
[06:46] <Amaranth> eh, i guess x86 is slightly easier
[06:46] <J-_> After the final release, I'll probably switch to x86-64
[06:47] <Amaranth> and if you manage to fit more than 4GB of memory in there you're rewiring the mobo
[06:47] <J-_> ...
[06:47] <J-_> I have 2GB
[06:47] <Amaranth> laptops tend to max out at 4GB or less
[06:47] <J-_> That sounds partially bad. lol
[06:47] <Amaranth> so you can't get enough ram in there to need amd64
[06:48] <J-_> hmm
[06:48] <Amaranth> the extra registers and junk don't help much
[06:48] <J-_> Yeah I think this lappy supports upto 4GB
[06:48] <J-_> I think I'll be happy with 2gb though. I've always ran 512bm
[06:48] <J-_> mb*
[06:48] <Amaranth> and actually amd64 removed some instructions that are useful for virtual machines
[06:49] <J-_> 512mb on my desktop that is.
[06:49] <Amaranth> they had to remove a couple instructions to fit the extra registers
[06:49] <J-_> I see, I don't really understand that though.
[06:49] <Amaranth> well, they didn't _have_ to
[06:49] <Amaranth> but they're stupid
[06:49] <Amaranth> hehe, that's ok
[06:49] <J-_> Too far in zee realm.
[06:49] <J-_> =P
[06:50] <Amaranth> Just think "amd64 helps video encoding but hurts Java/.NET"
[06:50] <Amaranth> the pentium 4 was like that too but much much worse
[06:50] <J-_> hmm, I have a P4
[06:51] <Amaranth> netburst is a virtual machine writer's nightmare
[06:51] <J-_> Works pretty good right now, but dying. Or, maybe it's just my Gutsy Installation I don't know
[06:51] <Amaranth> Netburst being the name of the P4 architecture
[06:51] <J-_> neat
[06:51] <RAOF> Amaranth: The insane pipeline length?
[06:51] <Amaranth> RAOF: that's part of it
[06:51] <Amaranth> yay stalls
[06:53] <J-_> Can anyone suggest a router that I can hook up a external drive to? Or, would I need a network? I figured a ext. drive hooked up to a router would essentially be a network drive. But, I could be totally wrong.
[06:54] <RAOF> J-_: You need special hardware in the router.  Viz: some form of hard drive interface :)
[06:54] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> time capsule + airport extreme (kidding)
[06:55] <J-_> Ah okay. Then, I'll just figure out how to hook up my ext drive to my server, and SSH to it
[06:55] <J-_> Not sure of a way to do so, but if there's a will there's a way
[06:56] <Amaranth> I find it amusing that a 1Ghz Pentium 3 blows away a 2Ghz Pentium 4
[06:56] <J-_> hrm, my desktop in a P3 3.o Ghz
[06:56] <J-_> 3.0*
[06:56] <Amaranth> Well, no, once you get to 2Ghz the Pentium 4 starts to take the lead
[06:56] <J-_> p4 too
[06:57] <J-_> darn fingers.
[06:57] <Amaranth> but basically you have to have double the clock speed or better
[06:57] <Raspberry> I'm excited to say the MESA / OpenGL problem will be fixed soon :)
[06:57] <J-_> P4, 3Ghz
[06:57] <Amaranth> J-_: So a 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo will be faster than that :P
[06:57] <Amaranth> Even without using the second core, really
[06:58] <J-_> Amaranth: Nice, that's awesome as this one is a 2ghz.
[06:58] <J-_> =D
[06:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> T7100?
[06:58] <J-_> c2d @ 2GHz
[06:58] <Amaranth> right, so faster than your desktop
[06:58] <Raspberry> I'm running a 1.6Ghz Core 2 Duo (T7500)
[06:58] <J-_> =)
[06:58] <Raspberry> it's faster than my AMD64 AthlonX2 4800+
[06:58] <Amaranth> HD speed is probably close between the two as well, unless you have a really good one in the desktop or a really bad one in the laptop
[06:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Raspberry, ? my T7500 clocked at 2.2
[06:59] <Raspberry> sorry L7500
[06:59] <J-_> the HD is only 5400rpm. slow =(
[06:59] <J-_> In the Lappy that is
[06:59] <Amaranth> ouch
[06:59] <Raspberry> I did a lot of research on HDD 5400rpm isn't that much slower than a 7200rpm
[06:59] <J-_> Ah well, I can upgrade later.
[06:59] <Amaranth> i traded size for speed when i got mine
[06:59] <J-_> nice
[07:00] <Raspberry> save your money and upgrade to a SSD SATA HDD for your laptop :)
[07:00] <Amaranth> could have gotten a 200GB 4200rpm one but I got a 100GB 7200rpm one instead
[07:00] <Raspberry> they're lightning fast
[07:00] <Amaranth> Now they're up to 160GB 7200rpm drives
[07:00]  * DanaG has a 200GB 7200RPM drive.
[07:00] <Raspberry> and they use 15%-30% less battery
[07:00] <J-_> Amaranth: wow
[07:00] <Amaranth> DanaG: In a laptop?
[07:00] <J-_> Raspberry: really?
[07:00] <DanaG> Yup.  Hitachi 7k200-200.
[07:00] <Raspberry> yeah
[07:00] <DanaG> 7k200 is the (simplified) model, 200 is the capacity.
[07:00] <Raspberry> the hitachi's burn out after 3-5 years of use
[07:00] <Amaranth> Raspberry: SSD are slower for sequential reads/writes
[07:01] <J-_> Raspberry: Probably throw ya back a few bucks though. lol
[07:01] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, swap the optical drive to a ultra bay hd adapt and put a ssd on it
[07:01] <Amaranth> DanaG: ah, that's the successor to mine
[07:01] <DanaG> Got load cycles?  I have 80000 of them.
[07:01] <Raspberry> I haven't had a hitachi that's lasted longer than 5 years in a laptop ... with most of the burning out at 3 years of daily use
[07:01] <glance> anyone here that have successfully installed hardy with fai?
[07:01] <Amaranth> fastest drives you can get in a laptop
[07:01] <J-_> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Don't know what you mean at all. Hardware illiterate here.
[07:01] <DanaG> In 1240 hours.
[07:01] <glance> i have some stupid debconf problem with grub.
[07:01] <glance> it won't generate a menu.lst for mee.
[07:02] <Raspberry> J-_: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820609244
[07:02] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, u can swap ur optical drive to a ext battery or a hd
[07:02] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, which is called the ultra bay by ibm
[07:03] <Raspberry> I have the ThinkPad X61t model 776298U
[07:04] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Raspberry, sweet
[07:04] <J-_> Sounds neat.
[07:04] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> t61p 8891cto
[07:04] <J-_> that drive looks delicious. the review is even funnier.
[07:04] <Raspberry> it's faster than my desktop -- I have it plugged into a 24" Benq display and it works great at 1920x1200 (VGA) & 1400x1050 (LVDS)
[07:05] <Raspberry> 4gb of RAM running Hardy 64bit ... everything is great except that the MESA drivers for Ubuntu have been broken for almost 3 months now
[07:05] <Raspberry> so I can't do anything with OpenGL
[07:06] <J-_> If I don't have an optical drive, how the heck am I suppose to watch DVD's, or reinstall Ubuntu? =P
[07:06] <Raspberry> not over 2-3 fps anyway -- any opengl from WINE restarts X
[07:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> $1800 for a hd
[07:06] <Raspberry> J-_: rip the DVDs to 700mb AVI :)  or put a external DVD R/W on your desk like I do
[07:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> more expensive than my laptop
[07:07] <J-_> Raspberry: Makes sense. Good sense at that, but teh price is a bit overwhelming. But solid-state is goodness.
[07:07] <J-_> Yay, Hardy is downloaded.
[07:08] <J-_> Time to put on CD
[07:08] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> that's y macbook air is a joke
[07:08] <DanaG> HP makes a business 2" laptop with an optical drive.
[07:08] <RAOF> Raspberry: What card?
[07:08] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> and now we have x300 too
[07:08] <DanaG> 12".
[07:08] <DanaG> Lost a digit.
[07:09] <DanaG> HP 2510p.
[07:09] <J-_> [Hardy]TuTUXG: I think the new Lenovo will kick the air's arse. But I don't want to flame, or start a flameware.
[07:09] <RAOF> Raspberry: Mesa shouldn't be broken :)
[07:09] <J-_> =|
[07:09] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> J-_, the ssd price is a joke
[07:09] <J-_> indeed
[07:10] <J-_> a lot of cash
[07:10] <Raspberry> RAOF: The X3100
[07:11] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> wait max 1 year, when major hd vendors are able to deliver ssd, it gonna be cheaper than hdd
[07:11]  * RAOF skeptates.
[07:11] <Raspberry> RAOF: Intel X3100
[07:11] <RAOF> Raspberry: Can you give the bug number?  That card should be well supported, right?
[07:11] <Raspberry> the Ubuntu people blamed it on FreeDesktop and refused to fix it ... marking all the bugs INVALID.... so I did a bunch of digging on FreeDesktop and it turns out the issues with MESA were fixed almost 45 days ago... and the new MESA / Intel drivers hadn't been recompiled since then
[07:12] <Raspberry> after pointing that out -- they put it in the upstream with priority for release with Alpha 5
[07:12] <Raspberry> i'm looking up the bug #s
[07:12] <RAOF> Raspberry: I remember reading a bug in the freedesktop bugtracker about wine pushing an invalid fragment program to the driver, which promptly crashed.
[07:12] <RAOF> Is that it?
[07:12] <DanaG> Do take a look at notebookforums.com.
[07:12] <Amaranth> RAOF: Which, of course, is still the driver's fault
[07:12] <Raspberry> RAOF: part of it, but primarily, yes
[07:12] <J-_> I just hope I don't get affected by the bug as I have a x3100
[07:13] <Raspberry> all x3100 people are affected
[07:13] <Raspberry> we've been affected for months
[07:13] <Amaranth> RAOF: Everyone blames the programs when they manage to do something to kill the driver, the driver is supposed to protect against such things
[07:13] <Raspberry> hamstringing our 3d performance in Linux / X
[07:13] <Amaranth> Raspberry: I find this hard to believe, I know people happily running Compiz on their X3100
[07:13] <Raspberry> Amaranth: the driver was fixed in Early January
[07:13] <RAOF> Amaranth: Absolutely.  No application should crash X, ever.  It's always an X/driver bug.
[07:13] <Raspberry> Amaranth: I'm happily running it
[07:13] <J-_> I see, at least I hope I can run the stuff I do coherently.
[07:13] <Raspberry> but it's using DRI stuff not truely OpenGL
[07:14] <Amaranth> Raspberry: Compiz is OpenGL
[07:14] <Raspberry> they've moved it to Alpha6 now
[07:14] <Amaranth> there is no "DRI" stuff, you access the 3D hardware with OpenGL
[07:14] <Raspberry> here's the FreeDesktop bug: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13492
[07:14] <RAOF> Unless you're a driver implementing OpenGL, of course. :)
[07:14] <Raspberry> here's one of the many Ubuntu bugs on this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mesa/+bug/178292
[07:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 178292 in mesa "3D-Accelerated Games cause X to crash with Intel Driver" [Unknown,Fix released]
[07:15] <Amaranth> RAOF: well, duh :P
[07:15] <Raspberry> I would say this MESA driver issue has caused at least 20 separate bugs to open that I've seen and I can only imagine that there are/were dozens more --
[07:15] <J-_> Amaranth: Is that why you suggested Free drivers when you told me that my lappy is supported in Hardy?
[07:16] <Raspberry> J-_: the intel drivers are Free
[07:16] <RAOF> Raspberry: Yup, that was the bug I was thinking about.  It should only affect wine, since other programs are likely to not push invalid programs :)
[07:16] <J-_> Ah okay. =S
[07:16] <Raspberry> RAOF: it effected lots of other things :)  Like Enemy Territory
[07:16] <Raspberry> and TuxRacer
[07:16] <Raspberry> I was getting 2-3fps
[07:17] <J-_> I vaguely play games anyway, so I don't think it'll affect me. But, I do run minimal Compiz-fusion with Emerald.
[07:17] <Raspberry> I still only get 2.0 fps in Extreme Tux Racer with my X3100
[07:17] <Raspberry> Compiz works fine for the most part, although I only turn it on to show off ... because many of the effects are choppy
[07:18] <J-_> I think I will use this lappy more for research than anything. I like the mobility, and I can bring it anywhere I like. (first laptop ever. Only used a laptop twice before owning one)
[07:19] <Raspberry> I started testing 3d performance with TuxRacer because when I told people I was testing it with glxgears they laughed and said that wasn't a real test
[07:19] <RAOF> Raspberry: Tuxracer running slowly would have had exactly nothing to do with that bug.  Either it would've crashed X, or you were seeing another problem.
[07:20] <Raspberry> so how can I improve opengl performance with my X3100 card -- I should get better than 2.5fps in TuxRacer, since I get 25fps+ in World of Warcraft
[07:21] <pwnguin> via wine?
[07:21] <pwnguin> or via windows?
[07:21] <RAOF> No idea.
[07:21] <J-_> Was there a lot of fooling around to get this chipset working? Or, has it worked smoothly? I hope I made the right choice of downloading the live cd.
[07:21] <Raspberry> via Windows ... I get 8-15fps when I could run WoW in WINE
[07:21] <Raspberry> J-_: i just worked
[07:21] <J-_> K
[07:21] <Raspberry> J-_: IT just worked... just make sure you're using the "intel" chipset
[07:22] <J-_> Yeah it says on my receipt, "Intel GMA x3100 GM965"
[07:23] <Raspberry> no in X
[07:23] <pwnguin> i think you mean driver, not chipset
[07:23] <pwnguin> the chipsets the same whether you try to load vesa or intel ;)
[07:24] <Amaranth> did freenode just die for anyone else?
[07:24] <Amaranth> been trying to reconnect for 6 minutes, this is the third time i got connected
[07:24] <pwnguin> just a split
[07:24] <Amaranth> the other two i got disconnected before i even got through the MOTD
[07:24] <Raspberry> no
[07:24] <Raspberry> freenode is working
[07:24] <Amaranth> no, that's not a split
[07:24] <J-_> Amaranth: Netsplit, and I didn't die
[07:24] <stdin> I know card split
[07:25] <Amaranth> that's a server going down or something
[07:25] <pwnguin> im just saying, on my end, it says niven split
[07:25] <Amaranth> card didn't split, it died
[07:25] <pwnguin> presumably because it was under massive load
[07:25] <Amaranth> pwnguin: you're in niven
[07:25] <pwnguin> hmm
[07:25] <Amaranth> it doesn't say niven split, it says niven gave you that message
[07:25] <Amaranth> card hiccupped
[07:26] <pwnguin> oh, card's the name of another server
[07:26] <Raspberry> here's the specs on the laptop I have: http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cgi-bin/ssialias?infotype=AN&subtype=CA&htmlfid=897/ENUS107-640&appname=lenovous&language=en
[07:26] <J-_> wow. loading Ubuntu up on my lappy. Seems weird to see "ubuntu" on it.
[07:26]  * J-_ giggles
[07:26] <Raspberry> they just compiled new drivers on the 26th of February, but this problem still isn't fixed :P
[07:26] <pwnguin> confusing, when the discussion was about video cards ;)
[07:26] <Raspberry> they = ubuntu devs
[07:27] <J-_> Live CD taking a while to load. Still not loaded yet.
[07:27] <J-_> Checking out graphic mode first.
[07:27] <Raspberry> J-_: what laptop do you have?
[07:27] <J-_> R61e
[07:28] <J-_> she
[07:28] <J-_> She's booted, soonish now.
[07:28] <J-_> Yay
[07:29] <bazhang> Hardy is really nice on my R60e ;]
[07:29] <J-_> Wow, disk kind of sounds weird in there
[07:29] <pwnguin> also, it can be a bug in both mesa and X
[07:29] <pwnguin> x shouldn't crash
[07:30] <pwnguin> but just stopping x from crashing may not be enough
[07:30] <Raspberry> ?
[07:31] <J-_> Should I check out an unsecured wireless network? I guess I shouldn't, or shouldn't ask. I could be illegal.
[07:31] <J-_> it*
[07:31] <J-_> "questionable legal activity"
[07:31] <jussi01> o4o!!!!:P
[07:33] <J-_> =X
[07:39] <ethana2> Windows users are bad for my health.
[07:39] <ethana2> They raise my blood pressure.
[07:45] <J-_> jeebus man. I just can't believe the performance with this laptop. there's a huge noticeable difference on the live cd portion of the laptop. I'm sure it'll be a lot better once it's installed.
[07:45] <J-_> I mean, HUGE different between my desktop and laptop.
[07:45] <J-_> Way better on Lappy.
[07:46] <J-_> it's crazy
[07:46] <Amaranth> J-_: when i got my laptop it ran the livecd better than my mac mini ran an installed system :)
[07:47] <J-_> you guys are doing something right, Amaranth =)
[07:47] <Amaranth> i just make compiz go
[07:48] <DanaG> Laptop CD drives are slow, and Mac Mini CD drives are worse.
[07:48] <DanaG> Oh yeah, here's that HP ultralight.  http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3905
[07:49] <DanaG> Oh yeah, there ARE now 5400rpm 1.8" drives.
[07:50] <J-_> man, it really sounds like the laser in my lappy is going crazy when the cd is spinning. Is that normal?
[07:51] <Raspberry> yeah
[07:51] <Raspberry> sure
[07:51] <Raspberry> whatever
[08:00] <RAOF> pwnguin: Yeah.  There's the bug in wine that it's sending a broken frogment program.  there's the bug in the Intel driver that a broken fragment program takes down X :)
[08:01] <ethana2> gallium come quickly
[08:02] <J-_> should just use the whole drive on the lappy as Ubuntu? =P As I didn't install Ubuntu first. I have Vista on.
[08:03] <RAOF> Hm.  I wonder if nouveau's gallium is fixed...
[08:03] <J-_> screw it, I haven't used iwndows in a year.
[08:03] <RAOF> Wine is really quite good, now :)
[08:06]  * DanaG goes to bed now.  Good night.
[08:07] <DanaG> Oh hey, something random:  I put the following line in something in /etc/acpi/suspend.d, and it improved suspend reliablility:
[08:07] <DanaG> DISPLAY=:0 glxinfo
[08:08] <DanaG> I had noticed suspend being more reliable when on AC then when on battery, and then I realized that that's because I use compiz when on AC but not on battery.  I tried Metacity on AC and Compiz on Battery, and it turned out that Compiz was the deciding factor.  Thus, apparently it helps to kick the GPU into 3D mode before suspend.
[08:15] <Amaranth> RAOF: Hows that for ammunition in the "turn compiz off on battery" battle? :D
[08:16] <bazhang> well the open-office hypenation bug went away with the last update ;]
[08:16] <Amaranth> DanaG's laptop suspends more reliably when using compiz :D
[08:16] <Amaranth> RAOF: oh, that reminds me, nvidia fixed sync to vblank
[08:16] <Amaranth> Not that it matters, sync to vblank sucks power
[08:17] <J-_> 65% done installing =D
[08:18] <bazhang> and trackerd can now be turned off yeah! ;]
[08:19] <J-_> jeebus, screen went blank for a sec, scared teh crap out of me, but I guess that's normal lol
[08:19] <bazhang> haha
[08:19] <J-_> no use = screen turns off
[08:20] <J-_> bazhang: new lappy - installing hardy =P
[08:20] <bazhang> J-_: brave soul ;]
[08:20] <Amaranth> J-_: so was compiz working right away on the livecd too?
[08:21] <J-_> yes, default compiz
[08:21] <Amaranth> yay
[08:21] <Amaranth> RAOF: did you ever try static?
[08:21] <J-_> Amaranth: im guessing I don't have to install drivers, etc.? everything will be preinstalled as they are free drivers?
[08:22] <Amaranth> J-_: everything should just work
[08:22] <J-_> or will I get a warning like when I enable restricted?
[08:22] <Amaranth> no need to get drivers or anything
[08:22] <J-_> awesome
[08:22] <Amaranth> no restricted
[08:22] <J-_> used to nvidia =P
[08:22] <Amaranth> you probably won't even have to tweak anything to get suspend to work
[08:22] <J-_> nice =D
[08:23] <J-_> so when I close lappy, she'll go to sleep?
[08:23] <J-_> typing weird because laptop is infront of me and I'm hugging screen to type. lol
[08:23] <Amaranth> should
[08:23] <Amaranth> don't do it now though :P
[08:23] <J-_> neh sir!
[08:24] <darrend> Amaranth: are you saying suspend is more reliable in hardy than gutsy?
[08:24] <darrend> I have reliability issues in gutsy on several laptops
[08:24] <J-_> ubuntu's sound has went off 3 times while installing so far.
[08:24] <Amaranth> darrend: very much so
[08:24] <darrend> cool
[08:24] <Amaranth> darrend: mostly thanks to 2.6.24
[08:25] <darrend> I'm only running hardy on my desktop right now
[08:25] <Amaranth> but also since he has a thinkpad with all intel stuff inside
[08:25] <Amaranth> so it would probably suspend just fine in gutsy too
[08:26] <darrend> hmm.. my Asus is mostly intel - I geta single successful suspend/resume - after that it will never resume from successive suspends until a hard reboot
[08:26] <Amaranth> darrend: But on my laptop in gutsy 1 out of 10 times (at least) my laptop would fail to resume and I had to do a bunch of tweaks
[08:26] <J-_> i have to ask. on this thinkpad there's this weird slot on the left beside the one usb port. what is it? lol
[08:26] <Amaranth> With hardy I don't have those tweaks and suspend has yet to fail
[08:26] <Amaranth> J-_: firewire?
[08:26] <RAOF> Amaranth: No, I didn't.  I'll wait till it hits some form of VCS :P
[08:26] <Amaranth> RAOF: it's like 40 lines of code
[08:27] <J-_> dunno, the button I can press and it ejects long, and i can put it back in
[08:27] <Amaranth> J-_: oh, is the slot about the width of a credit card?
[08:27] <darrend> anyone know why several of my custom icon sets don't want to work in hardy?  The OSX set for one :(
[08:27] <J-_> yes
[08:27] <Amaranth> J-_: it's either pcmcia or expresscard
[08:28] <Amaranth> probably expresscard
[08:28] <bazhang> pcmcia
[08:28] <J-_> 303 updates!!!!!
[08:29] <J-_> Amaranth: cool, thanks
[08:29] <Amaranth> yeah, that's hardy for ya
[08:29] <J-_> =)
[08:29] <Amaranth> they're actually preparing the next alpha release right now :P
[08:29] <bazhang> oh my gosh Hardy supports hibernate!! this is unreal!
[08:29] <Amaranth> getting the CDs down to size then handing off to testers, i guess
[08:29] <bazhang> gave a little beep when I closed the lid and then again when I opened it ;]
[08:29] <Amaranth> ah, i only tried hibernate once
[08:29] <Amaranth> but it too worked
[08:30] <Amaranth> suspend beeps for me too, just like a thinkpad
[08:30] <bazhang> first time ever ;]
[08:30] <Amaranth> i think gnome-power-manager just wants to make me feel like i got a better laptop :P
[08:30] <bazhang> hehe
[08:30]  * Amaranth throws computer through window
[08:30] <Amaranth> STUPID THING INSTALL THE RIGHT SQUASHFS
[08:30]  * Amaranth goes crazy
[08:31] <J-_> MAN, UNREAL! whoops, 500 kbps. my nic on my desktop must be going
[08:31] <Raspberry> they changed the suspend beep sound
[08:31] <bazhang> Hardy is now the world leader of OSes ;]
[08:32] <Amaranth> 'for a38 and up you have to name the files *.chroot and not *.bootstrap.'
[08:32] <Amaranth> thanks a lot
[08:32] <Amaranth> stabbity stab
[08:33] <bazhang> this is weird--there is a small crescent moon on my thinkpad that blinks when it hibernates--never seen that before
[08:33] <Amaranth> bazhang: it had better not do it when you're hibernating
[08:34] <Amaranth> bazhang: hibernate == suspend to disk, zero power usage
[08:34] <bazhang> Amaranth: what does it signify?
[08:34] <Amaranth> as in, you can pull the battery out and leave it for a year
[08:34] <Amaranth> you're doing sleep
[08:34] <Amaranth> suspend to ram
[08:34] <Amaranth> don't pull the battery, it'll die :P
[08:34] <bazhang> thanks!
[08:35] <Amaranth> when you sleep basically everything except the RAM turns off so you need to keep power to the RAM
[08:35] <Amaranth> but on the other hand resume is almost instant
[08:35] <bazhang> so to get back just hit enter? Amaranth
[08:35] <Amaranth> hibernate writes out the contents of RAM to disk and turns off completely but it takes forever to resume
[08:35] <Amaranth> bazhang: sure, push any key on the thing
[08:36] <J-_> sweet
[08:36] <Amaranth> on my any key on the keyboard, the volume keys, and the power button will resume it
[08:36] <bazhang> nice thanks Amaranth
[08:36] <Amaranth> basically everything except the mouse
[08:39] <bazhang> need an op in #ubuntu
[08:44] <bazhang> wow resume took a long time ;]
[08:46] <J-_> hmm my battery status says it can't get data, and shows a plug...
[08:46] <J-_> just updating though
[08:46] <J-_> wasn't like that before
[08:49] <J-_> back to normal now =D
[08:57] <pwnguin> so ipw is gone
[08:59] <pwnguin> is anyone using iwl currently?
[09:17] <dencrypt> cd /media/
[09:17] <dencrypt> ugm
[09:18] <dencrypt> wrong tab ;)
[09:19] <RAOF> pwnguin: Yo, iwl here!
[09:20] <RAOF> Amaranth: So you didn't see mjg's LCA talk "Why hibernate doesn't work, never worked, and cannot work?" :)
[09:20] <RAOF> At least, I think that was mjg...
[09:20] <Amaranth> RAOF: Yeah, I saw it
[09:20] <Amaranth> it was him
[09:21] <Amaranth> you can tell by the sarcasm and hate of the title ;)
[09:21] <RAOF> :)
[09:23] <pwnguin> RAOF: im having difficulties with the wireless, and im not sure why
[09:24] <RAOF> My laptop leads a charmed life.
[09:24] <RAOF> I should probably be on the lookout for moving woods.
[09:25] <J-_> Amaranth is the man!
[09:25] <pwnguin> im upgrading a kernel right now, so if im lucky, it fixes itself
[09:25] <Amaranth> J-_: Did suspend work or something?
[09:26] <J-_> no, my fricken laptop works! you told me what to get and I got it. =P
[09:27] <J-_> well I don't know if suspend works yet
[09:27] <Amaranth> close the lid with the power cord removed :)
[09:28] <Amaranth> RAOF: I really hope someone implements his idea, it'll fix most of the annoying issues with sleep and hibernate
[09:28] <J-_laptop> why the hell is there tor? wtf!? this better not limit me
[09:28] <J-_laptop> I'll be creaming at my isp
[09:28] <J-_laptop> ...
[09:28] <J-_laptop> screaming*
[09:28] <pwnguin> why is there tor?
[09:28] <RAOF> Amaranth: Ah, mjg's "let's just kexec into a kernel that can do everything sensibly" idea?
[09:29] <RAOF> Yeah, that'd be awesome.
[09:29] <Amaranth> RAOF: after that hibernate should basically work all the time and it makes sleep simpler
[09:29] <J-_laptop> I don't know, really. My ISP included it in my hostmask.
[09:29] <pwnguin> heh
[09:29] <RAOF> Amaranth: And on !x86, too :)
[09:29] <J-_laptop> #ubuntu better not block me.
[09:29] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: you're not on tor
[09:29] <pwnguin> toronto duh
[09:29] <beast-feast> mmmm tor
[09:29] <zniavre> hello
[09:29] <J-_laptop> Amaranth: toronto, yeah. lol
[09:29] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: tor gets a special hostmask cloak that we have banned, you wouldn't have gotten into the channel
[09:29] <RAOF> Amaranth: static fails to build for me.
[09:30] <J-_laptop> Amaranth: okay, cool
[09:30] <Amaranth> RAOF: you need smspillaz's version
[09:30] <pwnguin> if you're on tor, it's doing a crappy job of hiding your ip
[09:30] <beast-feast> Amaranth, wrong, at least, regarding this channel
[09:30] <pwnguin> ;)
[09:30] <J-_laptop> kinda freaked me out a bit
[09:30] <Amaranth> RAOF: the original one is for 0.6
[09:30] <zniavre> i got strange behaviour of network-manager :each rebbot i must setup manualiy the network cause there is no ip usable
[09:30] <zniavre> is it known as bug?
[09:30] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: try suspend already :P
[09:30] <J-_laptop> okay okay, hold on. :closes lid:
[09:31] <J-_laptop> *prays*
[09:31] <J-_> hahaha it beeped.
[09:31] <pwnguin> did it fail?
[09:31] <J-_> crap I didn't remove power cord.
[09:31] <pwnguin> oh, heh, turned that off
[09:32] <J-_laptop> nice it worked despite the power cord.
[09:32] <J-_laptop> but, now I'm lagging.
[09:33]  * J-_laptop tries without powercord.
[09:34] <RAOF> Amaranth: Yes, it's approximately as cool as I expected.
[09:34] <J-_> the suspend light blinked, while the battery icon went off, now the suspend light is solid
[09:34] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: yeah, you just disconnected :P
[09:34] <Amaranth> so it has to catch up on everything while you were gone since you weren't gone long enough for it to drop the connection
[09:35] <J-_> that could be bad in a long instance of being on suspend....
[09:35] <pwnguin> na
[09:35] <Amaranth> no, because then you just get disconnected for real
[09:35] <Amaranth> and have to reconnect, same as if your network had died or something
[09:35] <pwnguin> eventually you get dropped, since you're no longer responding to the net anyways
[09:35] <J-_laptop> ah okay, sounds neat.
[09:37] <J-_laptop> Once I get my server going again, I should get screen going on that, and just log in from a session on there since it'll always run 24h like it did before
[09:37] <J-_laptop> If it can be done that is.
[09:39] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: do you use irssi now?
[09:39] <J-_laptop> yes, always have
[09:40] <Amaranth> ah, alright then
[09:40] <henkjan> irssi users?
[09:40] <Amaranth> screen works for you then
[09:40] <J-_laptop> =)
[09:40] <henkjan> /disco dance for nice colors :)
[09:40] <Amaranth> otherwise you can run irssi in screen and enable the irssi proxy plugin so you can connect to it from xchat too
[09:40] <Amaranth> so xchat when you can, ssh and screen when you can't
[09:41] <J-_laptop> neat, I've never used screen before. Just irssi. actually, I lie, I've used it but it was for a short time.
[09:41] <J-_laptop> neat
[09:42] <J-_laptop> I should ask an op in freenode to get me a hostmask for this nick. Don't want no hackage. <3
[09:43] <awalton_laptop> should probably do the same.
[09:43]  * Amaranth hugs his cloak
[09:43] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: so everything is working good?
[09:43]  * awalton_laptop notices J-_laptop and awalton_laptop match.
[09:44] <Amaranth> J-_laptop: just don't try windowed OpenGL applications, always run them fullscreen :)
[09:44] <Amaranth> that means no google earth
[09:44] <J-_laptop> Yes, so far. I lurve it. My fingers aren't working fine though, small keyboard, lol.
[09:56] <J-_laptop> Amaranth: that's alright, I never used that before anyway. But, now I must sell a Les Paul Custom to pay for this lappy and school that is due. =)
[09:56] <Amaranth> ouchie
[09:57] <J-_laptop> hehe, ah well. It's worth it. I have a few extra guitars. I wanted to get a martin before, but grabbed the laptop instead.
[09:58] <J-_laptop> hmmm try to play somafm, and exaile crashes.
[09:58] <AutoMatriX> zniavre, high there
[09:59] <J-_laptop> maybe it needs a codec I don't have
[09:59] <zniavre> AutoMatriX:   :o)  good morning
[10:00] <J-_laptop> arrgh, no ubotu
[10:03] <JDahl> I would like tracker to use thunderbird instead of Evolution.  If I go to Systems->Preferences->Search & Indexing->Email,  then there is a click-box to enable thunderbird,  but it cannot be selected (grayed out). Any way to enable it?
[10:06] <RAOF> JDahl: No; the thunderbird backend is experimental.
[10:07] <JDahl> ok, thanks
[10:22] <pwnguin> RAOF: you know, i recall setting up some custom rules for iwl. maybe its time to undo those
[10:27] <J-_laptop> damn it, now I'm not getting any sound.
[10:32] <J-_laptop> first crash, sending bug report =P
[10:32] <Gil> Anybody here using nonfree Nvidia drivers with Hardy?
[10:32] <savvas> oh crash report, good thing you reminded me
[10:33] <savvas> present!
[10:33] <savvas>   Installed: 169.09+2.6.24.9-10.28
[10:33] <savvas>   Candidate: 169.12+2.6.24.10-11.29
[10:33] <savvas> nvidia-glx-new
[10:34] <savvas> Gil: what's the problem?
[10:35] <Gil> savvas I get a crash using nvidia-settings
[10:36] <Gil> basically, Hardy doesn't think my monitor can do 85hz when it can
[10:36] <Gil> so by default I can only choose up to 60hz
[10:36] <Gil> so I did an apt-get install nvidia-settings
[10:36] <Gil> and changed to 85hz through that, which was great
[10:36] <Gil> however, when I tried to save settings to the X configuration file
[10:36] <Gil> the app crashes
[10:36] <Gil> just wanted to see if this was just me
[10:37] <savvas> Gil: gksu gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[10:37] <savvas> in section "Device" add this line:
[10:37] <savvas> Option         "DynamicTwinView" "False"
[10:37]  * Gil writes it down
[10:37] <savvas> save, close and log out
[10:37] <Gil> I'm at work :)
[10:37] <Gil> will do it when I get home, so writing it down!
[10:37] <savvas> ah
[10:38] <savvas> well... this fixes the bug for the correct hz :)
[10:38] <Gil> excellent! Is this a hardy bug?
[10:38] <savvas> i contacted nvidia about it, they said they'll set it to false by default probably
[10:39] <savvas> um.. nvidia-settings is nvidia's stuff i think
[10:39] <savvas> do a sudo nvidia-bug-report.sh
[10:39] <savvas> and send them an email about nvidia-settings
[10:39] <Gil> kk
[10:40] <Gil> apart from that, hardy's been working great for me so far
[10:40] <Gil> although for some really odd reason, I can't play doom3 unless I'm root
[10:40] <Gil> but meh
[10:40] <savvas> hm.. well i'm having problems updating/reporting crashes and doing other internet things at the same time
[10:40] <savvas> it looks like hardy doesn't control the internet flow
[10:41] <Gil> :-\
[10:45] <pwnguin> well hurray. iwl solved
[10:46] <pwnguin> would have been solved faster if id noticed i left the radio switch on off
[11:05] <RAOF> pwnguin: :P  I always do that :)
[11:07] <pwnguin> well, it was set correctly originally
[11:07] <pwnguin> but apparently i needed to remove a workaround that was breaking the udev script
[11:07] <RAOF> Mine has a tendency to be flipped as I take it out of the laptop bag.
[11:09] <J-_laptop> How much to laptop backpacks generally go for?
[11:09] <J-_laptop> Or should a regular backpack do?
[11:10]  * J-_laptop ponders
[11:10] <pwnguin> i just use a regular backpack; the more pretenious use soft cases from neoprene or something to avoid scratches
[11:11] <J-_laptop> hmm
[11:11] <pwnguin> made from
[11:11] <J-_laptop> I should get some sort of nice microfibre cloth from a fabric store and make a soft case
[11:11] <J-_laptop> that way I have a soft case that goes inside my backpack
[11:12] <J-_laptop> or something that I can use with no static.
[11:13] <RAOF> I use a backpack with a compartment to strap the lappy in.  In my other backpack it'd just rattle around and dig into my back.
[11:14] <J-_laptop> hmm
[11:14] <J-_laptop> I could make a strap type deal too
[11:15] <J-_laptop> darn! Laptop screen brightness doesn't work
[11:15] <J-_laptop> the keys
[11:15] <J-_laptop> Fn and Home/ End
[11:15] <J-_laptop> what the hell, the Fn and PgUp keys... what is that?
[11:16] <J-_laptop> a light?
[11:23] <Gil> J-_laptop I would advise getting a specific laptop case - I have a compaq evo n610c that I carred around in a standard shoulder courier bag for about a year and if it wasn't so well built, it'd be in pieces by now. It seriously took some abuse :)
[11:23] <J-_laptop> doing some research, it seems so(light)
[11:24] <Gil> Anyhow, you may want to check out www.aria.co.uk - I bought some parts from them last week, and noticed they had some pretty cheap laptop bags
[11:24] <J-_laptop> Gil: nice
[11:24] <J-_laptop> Thanks, I only wish I was in the UK though =P
[11:25] <Gil> I doubt the shipping will be too excessive - I saw bags for around £12 in their superdeals
[11:25] <Gil> j-_laptop : http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/42+degrees+sling+bag+for+Notebook+-+Black%2FOrange?productId=28388
[11:26] <J-_laptop> jeez man, these are cheap
[11:26] <Gil> Yup! Also: http://www.aria.co.uk/SuperSpecials/Other+products/ZIGNUM+backpack+for+15%27%27+Notebooks?productId=28374
[11:27] <pwnguin> does compiz stop gl apps from running fullscreen now?
[11:27] <Gil> pwnguin I ran doom3 fullscreen last night if it counts
[11:28] <pwnguin> with compiz running?
[11:28] <Gil> yeah
[11:28] <Gil> but I could only run doom3 as root
[11:28] <Gil> It was late, couldn't be bothered to figure out what was stopping me running it as user
[11:29] <Syntux> alpha 5 rocks, almost stable
[11:30] <pwnguin> so are the openGL OO.org slide transitions slated for 8.04?
[11:31] <pwnguin> hm
[11:31] <pwnguin> (WW) NVIDIA(0): No valid modes for "1024x768"; removing.
[11:31] <pwnguin> perhaps something related to that's the culprit
[11:32] <Gil> pwnguin this may be similar to the problem I had
[11:33] <Gil> savvas pointed this out to me earlier after I had a problem with refresh rates
[11:33] <Gil> Set "Dynamic Twin View" to "False"
[11:33] <Gil> in xorg.conf
[11:35] <pwnguin> im pretty sure my problem is compiz
[11:35] <pwnguin> i try running "titanion -fullscreen"
[11:35] <pwnguin> and it jumps back and forth
[11:39] <Gil> you'll have to excuse my ignorance - I've had about a two year absence from any linux distro - but compiz is the rendering of all the new fancy gnome effects?
[11:40] <Gil> things like the wobbly minimize/maximize etc
[11:40] <pwnguin> yes
[11:40] <Gil> okay I definately have those enable
[11:40] <Gil> d*
[11:40] <Gil> and managed to run doom3 full screen last night
[11:44] <pwnguin> well, if i turn off compiz, it suddenly works as intended
[11:45] <pwnguin> i donno if doom3 is specia
[11:45] <pwnguin> special
[11:45] <J-_laptop> Gil: that's pretty nice
[11:47] <pwnguin> Gil: mind sharing your xorg.conf via pastebin?
[11:51] <J-_laptop> wonder how well xmoto will run on this bad bitty
[11:52] <Gil> pwnguin I can email it you when I get home - I'm at work at the moment :-\
[11:52] <pwnguin> Gil: oh right
[11:53] <Gil> will you be around this evening?
[11:53] <mrtimdog> When I save a dia diagram on the desktop, the nautilus thumbnailer is starting up dia, which gets a little confusing as I've not asked for dia to start. Is there any way of disabling thumbnailing for specific file types?
[11:53] <pwnguin> <-- screen+irssi = omnipresence
[11:54] <Gil> pwnguin you're lucky - I'm locked down so tight here, I'm lucky to get a web irc chat past the corp firewall :)
[11:54] <pwnguin> heh
[11:54] <mrtimdog> Ah, got it. Found it in gconf-editor.
[11:56] <KrimZon> ah nice, the battery monitor works for me now :)
[11:58] <savvas> does anyone have 256k or 512k adsl connection?
[11:59] <savvas> try upload a file 4-5MB large and browse the internet at the same time, does it lag?
[12:00] <Gil> savvas I got a bit of lag last night uploading a bug report
[12:01] <void^> savvas: that's normal.
[12:01] <KrimZon> savvas: ive had that sort of thing - installing flightgear with synaptic basically blocked everything else from the web
[12:01] <savvas> void^: it wasn't normal in gutsy
[12:02] <savvas> void^: by lag i mean i can't open any internet page *at all*
[12:02] <KrimZon> during the time it was downloading, i tried pinging google.com and couldnt even resolve it
[12:02] <savvas> my irc ping is around 12 seconds as we speak
[12:02] <void^> savvas: well, that's not lag then
[12:04] <savvas> void^: how would you define it? I'll change the bug report in a few minutes, I thought it was apport, but it does the same thing when downloading/uploading/upgrading something
[12:05] <savvas> was there a software-wise internet flow control in gutsy or something? :\
[12:05] <void^> "can't open internet pages at all" is a good start, perhaps ping a site and see if there's packet loss and include that
[12:06] <savvas> void^: ping: unknown host google.com
[12:07] <savvas> when the uploading is done, everything's back to normal
[12:07] <void^> try ping 64.233.187.99
[12:08] <savvas> the ping keeps rising
[12:09] <void^> well, include a few lines of that, mention your network device and include iptables -L and tc qdisc show
[12:10] <J-_laptop> Man, this laptop light is fricken awesome.
[12:10] <J-_laptop> I can ruin my eyes forever now!
[12:12] <savvas> void^: ok thanks, any binary package hint?
[12:21] <pwnguin> god i hate scrollkeeper
[12:21] <pwnguin> afaict, its job is to consume cpu
[12:21] <pwnguin> and overheat cpu
[12:24] <savvas> um, how do we enable num lock by default?
[12:25] <savvas> !numlock
[12:25] <pwnguin> i used to use the numlockx package
[12:26] <savvas> hm.. it's enabled on boot, while not get the default value?
[12:26] <savvas> *while=why
[12:26] <Gil> are you using a laptop?
[12:26] <pwnguin> probably because laptops hate it
[12:26] <Gil> I think some distros override it and disable it by default for laptops
[12:26] <Gil> because it does whacky things :)
[12:26] <pwnguin> suddenly the right half of the keyboard is a numpad
[12:27] <pwnguin> instead of jkl;
[12:27] <savvas> Gil: desktop :)
[12:27] <Gil> I remember years ago trying a mandrake beta that just killed a laptop
[12:27] <Gil> all due to numlock being on
[12:27] <Gil> worse still, you couldn't turn numlock off :)
[12:27] <savvas> hm..
[12:27] <savvas> true :P
[12:28] <savvas> http://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/196439
[12:28] <savvas> the apport lag / at all thing
[12:30] <Gil> at least it's confirmed
[12:36] <savvas> aye
[12:38] <bazhang> suspend and hibernate in Hardy ;]
[13:08] <glaucous> hi
[13:09] <rsk> hi
[13:09] <glaucous> when I upgraded from gutsy the other day, it's making me use the -386 kernel.  If I try to boot the -generic, it plops me in initramfs or something like that.  Should I wait for updates, or...?
[13:10] <zoidberg_> so guys is there really anything new in hardy
[13:10] <zoidberg_> there doesn't seem to be anything truly exciting going on with the past few relaess other than beryl stuff
[13:11] <bazhang> tons zoidberg_
[13:11] <Pici> zoidberg_: Hardy is an LTS release, so the focus this time around is on stability.  But of course theres new stuff.
[13:11] <glaucous> also, my webcam doesn't work.  how can I diagnose the problem so it gets looked at?
[13:12] <savvas> zoidberg_: www.ubuntu.com/testing
[13:12] <zoidberg_> Pici, and bazhang, i know what u mean...i dunno maybe i'm reading the wrogn relasenotes or don't know enough..but wahts something really cool...functionaly speaking that hardy will have
[13:12] <zoidberg_> i know its only in alpha right now
[13:12] <savvas> glaucous: uname -r
[13:13] <glaucous> savvas: 2.6.24-11-386
[13:13] <bazhang> zoidberg_: this is not really the ubuntu marketing channel; there are tons of websites that list the new features
[13:13] <glaucous> I'm not sure why I'm using -386 but I can't use -generic, it's borked
[13:13] <savvas> glaucous: ah sorry, I haven't updated to that one yet
[13:13] <glaucous> I suggest you don't
[13:13] <bazhang> glaucous: why not install the right ones
[13:14] <glaucous> the right ones?
[13:14] <bazhang> generic if you are smp
[13:14] <glaucous> I just upgraded from gutsy and that's what I got
[13:14] <savvas> zoidberg_: the website i gave you contains what's new and what's not up to this point
[13:14] <bazhang> s/ones/one/
[13:15] <glaucous> bazhang: if I boot into -generic, I get dumped into an initramfs prompt and can't do anything from there
[13:16] <tortho> anyone running Virtualbox under Hardy?
[13:17] <bazhang> glaucous: that is odd, the generic is okay here; did you not have the generic under gutsy?
[13:17] <glaucous> bazhang: I think I did, but maybe not.  I'm pretty much just a dumb user, but I want to help somehow
[13:17] <bazhang> tortho: not yet (but planning on running vmware if that counts) ;]
[13:18] <glaucous> bazhang: I need my hand held quite a bit :(
[13:18] <bazhang> not to worry glaucous ;] this is still early days
[13:19] <tortho> bazhang: I have been using VirtualBox for a while and it just works perfect... upon upgrade to hardy I found that it needs the 386 kernel and not the generic one and... 386 kernel does not work properlly on my laptop...
[13:19] <bazhang> well the topic does say it all ;]
[13:22] <savvas> tortho: vbox works ok here
[13:22] <glaucous> bazhang, when the next updates come will it switch me to generic?
[13:22] <savvas> $ apt-cache policy virtualbox
[13:22] <savvas> virtualbox: Installed: 1.5.6-28266_Ubuntu_gutsy
[13:23] <tortho> savvas: yes, it works but is dependent of the 386 kernel package... is it supposed to be that? Cant see the need to install a 386 kernel if you are using the generic one... and especially when my computer can not run the 386 one...
[13:24] <bazhang> glaucous: no guarantees, but the latest updates fixed two big problems I had plus added sleep and hibernate which i have never had before on this laptop ;]
[13:24] <glaucous> sleep and hibernate have never worked on my laptop.  ever :(
[13:24] <savvas> tortho: apt-cache policy virtualbox && apt-cache depends virtualbox
[13:24] <glaucous> they still don't
[13:25] <savvas> tortho: paste it to http://pastebin.ca
[13:25] <bazhang> glaucous: same here until just now ;]
[13:25] <gribelu> tortho: what is the problem exactly? vbox doesn't install?
[13:26] <glaucous> how can I tell if I have a certain driver installed?
[13:26] <glaucous> I'd really like to get wifi working
[13:26] <bazhang> what card glaucous
[13:26] <glaucous> I hate being connected to the internet by a cable :)
[13:26] <glaucous> intel
[13:26] <bazhang> 4965?
[13:26] <gribelu> tortho: i'm running virtualbox on hardy .. ran it with both 386 and generic kernels
[13:27] <tortho> gribelu: it does install, but I don't really see the reason to install several kernels... When you choose to install virtualbox it also adds the 386 kernel.
[13:27] <glaucous> bazhang: 06:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection (rev 02)
[13:28] <bazhang> glaucous: network manager does not show wireless hotspots? what about ifconfig in the terminal?
[13:28] <gribelu> hmm that's weird
[13:29] <glaucous> no, no wireless in network manager
[13:29] <glaucous> ifconfig shows lo and eth0
[13:30] <bazhang> glaucous: have you done all the updates?
[13:30] <glaucous> I believe so, yes
[13:30] <glaucous> checking for more now
[13:31] <bazhang> I have that very same card and it shows the wireless hotspots
[13:31] <glaucous> :(
[13:31] <tortho> savvas: http://pastebin.ca/928973
[13:32] <glaucous> now I'm completely upgraded, bazhang
[13:32] <glaucous> but it was just scim stuff
[13:33] <savvas> tortho: where does it say that it depends on -386?
[13:33] <gribelu> tortho: virtualbox and virtualbox-ose aren't the same thing .. virtualbox is the one i'm running
[13:33]  * J-_laptop is scared to use hotspots.
[13:33] <savvas> that's right, i'm using virtualbox too, not the -ose version
[13:33] <bazhang> glaucous: just trying to remember what I did to get this working..
[13:34] <tortho> savvas: give me 2 sec and you will see.
[13:34] <savvas> ok
[13:34] <J-_laptop> How well does Emerald work?
[13:34] <glaucous> bazhang: it seems like I don't have the drivers for wireless and webcam, but I don't know how to check or install them
[13:34] <tortho> gribelu: I know.. but the difference is not thet big, and ose version is the only ne in the ubuntu repos.
[13:35] <gribelu> here's the dependencies for virtualbox http://pastebin.ca/928981
[13:35] <gribelu> recommends linux-headers
[13:35] <gribelu> doesn't seem to force -386
[13:37] <tortho> savvas: look at this one... here you have the 386 image.. http://imagebin.ca/view/Sa9PXUXA.html
[13:37] <gribelu> tortho: do you have linux-headers package installed?
[13:37] <J-_laptop> does the brightness options work for anyone? Fn+pageup or pagedown?
[13:37] <J-_laptop> err
[13:37] <J-_laptop> home or end I should say
[13:38] <J-_laptop> the applet comes up lagging, but the screen brightness doesn't change
[13:38] <tortho> gribelu: Yes I have.. and just to clarify. there is no problem at all to install or run, just that I dont want the 386 kernel added together with everything else..
[13:39] <bazhang> glaucous: I am thinking back, and I believe I installed a bunch of restricted stuff--let me check synaptic to see if that included the restricted modules
[13:39] <savvas> tortho: I'd report that as a bug :)
[13:40] <gribelu> tortho: i think it's a problem with the virtualbox-ose* packages
[13:40] <gribelu> it does try to pull in -386 kernel
[13:40] <J-_laptop> wow, hibernate kinda works
[13:40] <gribelu> virtualbox package doesn't tho
[13:41] <J-_laptop> Is Fn+F4 hibernate on a thinkpad?
[13:41] <J-_laptop> or is it suspend?
[13:41] <savvas> virtualbox-ose-modules |Depends: <virtualbox-ose-modules-386> |Depends: virtualbox-ose-modules-generic
[13:41] <tortho> savvas: good, I'll report it... that was what I was looking for.. Just wanted to have some other's view on it, as there is enough bugs already :-)
[13:41] <glaucous> bazhang: thanks.  I hope you find it
[13:41] <gribelu> tortho: using sudo apt-get install virtualbox-ose virtualbox-ose-modules-generic works
[13:42] <gribelu> as in it doesn't pull -386 stuff anymore
[13:42] <gribelu> someone should report this to the virtualbox people :)
[13:43] <bazhang> glaucous: I have all the restricted modules for my kernel installed as well as the restricted extras--though I would have to ask danag to give the final word on this--seems the new drivers are iwl and not the old 3945 restricted drivers
[13:43] <Pici> !bug
[13:43] <Pici> Log a bug at bugs.ubuntu.com
[13:43] <tortho> gribelu: I'll do, and put it on launchpad as well.
[13:44] <glaucous> bazhang: how can I tell if I have the iwl driver?
[13:45] <tortho> gribelu: your command line install also does add the 386 :-)
[13:45] <gribelu> not for me
[13:46] <gribelu> aaah
[13:46] <gribelu> tortho: i actualy used aptitude
[13:46] <gribelu> aptitude doesn't pull 386
[13:46] <bazhang> glaucous: I think it is kernel level now--if memory serves--I would suggest you get the restricted modules but you are not able to use that kernel so not sure what to advise here
[13:47] <tortho> gribelu: Thats correct :-)
[13:47]  * gribelu pets aptitude
[13:50] <glaucous> bazhang: it says linux-restricted-modules is already installed
[13:51] <bazhang> glaucous: just a wild guess here, but does your laptop have a hardware switch to turn on and off the wireless/bluetooth etc?
[13:52] <glaucous> bazhang: it does, but the light is on.  I just flipped it to see and was told bluetooth went off (and then back on)
[13:53] <glaucous> bazhang: I have an hp dv8230ea, if that helps
[13:58] <bazhang> lsmod |grep 3945 try that in the terminal glaucous
[13:59] <glaucous> bazhang: nothing
[13:59] <bazhang> iwl3945 is the driver glaucous just a sec let me check something
[14:00] <bazhang> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 is this installed glaucous?
[14:03] <glaucous> bazhang: ah ha.  the generic is installed, but the 386 is not
[14:03] <bazhang> glaucous: you can install them then? what about the modules two lines up?
[14:04] <bazhang> s/them/it/
[14:05] <glaucous> which modules two lines up
[14:05] <glaucous> installing now
[14:06] <bazhang> heh
[14:07]  * bazhang points to glaucous's scroll key
[14:07] <glaucous> ha ha, but I don't have anything like that because I did a search
[14:08] <glaucous> it didn't say I had to reboot but I stil have no wireless
[14:08] <bazhang> do a search for modules then and install them
[14:09] <bazhang> apt-cache search modules from the terminal
[14:09] <glaucous> I think I did
[14:10] <bazhang> double check ;]
[14:12] <glaucous> I installed linux-386
[14:13] <bazhang> should be linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24
[14:14] <glaucous> yeah it did that
[14:16] <glaucous> maybe I should just wait until alpha six and do a fresh install
[14:16] <glaucous> the upgrade apparently isn't ready
[14:16] <savvas> hm..
[14:16] <savvas> tortho: still here? can you do uname -a ?
[14:17] <savvas> The following extra packages will be installed: virtualbox-ose-modules virtualbox-ose-modules-2.6.24-11-generic virtualbox-ose-modules-generic
[14:17] <savvas> amd64 here, Linux ubuntu 2.6.24-10-generic #1 SMP Fri Feb 22 18:26:06 UTC 2008 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[14:20] <glaucous> thanks for your help, bazhang
[14:29] <bazhang> glaucous no worries ;]
[14:30] <savvas> bazhang: do you have i386 ubuntu?
[14:31] <bazhang> generic savvas ;]
[14:31] <savvas> i meant if you use x86_64 or i386 :P
[14:31] <bazhang> or did you mean x86 vs 64 bit then it is 32bit
[14:31] <savvas> yup
[14:33] <tortho> savvas: tortho@tortho-laptop:~$ uname -a
[14:33] <tortho> Linux tortho-laptop 2.6.24-11-generic #1 SMP Fri Feb 29 22:08:31 UTC 2008 i686 GNU/Linux
[14:33] <tortho> tortho@tortho-laptop:~$
[14:33] <savvas> bazhang: can you sudo apt-get install virtualbox-ose and paste me the "The following extra packages will be installed" line?
[14:33] <bazhang> hang on a sec savvas
[14:33] <savvas> it's a bit weird that it requested tortho to install the -386 linux kernel
[14:34] <savvas> ok
[14:35] <savvas> brb in a minute, going for a quick reboot
[14:35] <bazhang> all of it or the linux-image-etc-i386?
[14:37] <savvas> alrighty i'm back
[14:38] <savvas> bazhang: got the line?
[14:39] <bazhang> savvas:  all of it or the linux-image-etc-i386?
[14:39] <savvas> the line about the extra packages that will be installed
[14:40] <bazhang> thus my question
[14:41] <bazhang> libaudio2 libqt3-mt-mysql ,etc, etc, and then the linux image 2.6 etc i386
[14:42] <tortho> savvas: feel free to add comments.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/virtualbox-ose/+bug/198760
[14:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198760 in virtualbox-ose "Virtualbox-ose requires 386 kernel image" [Undecided,New]
[14:42] <bazhang> I get that too tortho
[14:43] <tortho> bazhang: good, then its not only me  as usual :-)
[14:44] <bazhang> tortho: haha savvas asked me check ;]
[14:44] <bazhang> err to check
[14:45] <savvas> tortho: apt-cache policy virtualbox-ose | grep archive
[14:46] <tortho> savvas: tortho@tortho-laptop:~$ apt-cache policy virtualbox-ose | grep archive
[14:46] <tortho>         500 http://no.archive.ubuntu.com hardy/universe Packages
[14:47] <hwilde_> does ubuntu do gratuitous arp, and if so can it be disabled?
[14:49] <savvas> tortho: ok, i'll add that screenshot you showed me before to your bug report :)
[14:50] <tortho> savvas: ok, I can do also if you dont have it avaliable..
[14:53] <hwilde_> does anybody even know what gratuitous arp is here?
[14:56] <savvas> http://wiki.wireshark.org/Gratuitous_ARP
[14:56] <savvas> :p
[14:56] <savvas> in other words, i have nooo idea
[14:57] <hwilde_> yeah me neither
[15:15] <qzio> hm, i did an upgrade and lost open office word ..?
[15:15] <qzio> is this a known bug?
[15:16] <qzio> er, openoffice.org-writer..
[15:17] <qzio> installed that package.. it's working now, so nm..
[15:18] <bazhang> savvas: you got the info you needed from me?
[16:11] <bod_> is hardy still alpha atm?
[16:12] <Pici> yes
[16:12] <savvas> bazhang: yeah, thanks
[16:13] <bazhang> no worries savvas ;]
[16:13] <bod_> are we likely to get a beta b4 the release date?
[16:13] <bod_> before
[16:14] <savvas> :)
[16:14] <savvas> bod_: everyone that uses hardy already, uses the latest alpha/beta/whatever with the latest updates :)
[16:14] <bazhang> beta b4 haha
[16:15] <bod_> savvas, ok, can u elaborate please,. that doesnt make sense to me
[16:15] <burner> hardy is getting sweet... whoever made ftp work in nautilus again, thank you! :)
[16:16] <bod_> is t still orange?
[16:16] <bod_> it*
[16:17] <bod_> ok, a serious question, how would i go about upgrading to hardy when its released?
[16:22] <bazhang> bod_: dont wait ;]
[16:23] <bod_> bazhang, what do you mean? upgrade now?
[16:24] <Pici> Please wait.
[16:24] <bod_> haha  ok mixed results, why do you say wait Pici?
[16:24] <Pici> bod_: Because theres nothing ensuring that the next update won't completely break it.
[16:25] <bod_> Pici, true, could i make a 10gig partition and have hardy on that to play with?
[16:25] <Pici> I had missing dependencies the last time I did an apt-get upgrade, and I dont think that everyone wants to deal with that.
[16:25] <Pici> bod_: sure
[16:26] <Milos_SD> when will the bug with keyboard layout switching by some key be fixed?፡)
[16:26] <bod_> Pici, oh, i just remembered my old windows disk has a broken instal, i could format then have hardy there,.,. can i download hardy live cd or summit like that?
[16:28] <bazhang> bod_: well you are only on irc and that works, so why not? ;]
[16:29] <bazhang> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha5
[16:29] <bod_> bazhang, im not sure what you mean?
[16:30] <bazhang> bod_: just a joke; probably best to listen to Pici and wait ;]
[16:31] <bod_> bazhang, i have an old disk im gonna use to play with hardy,.,.heheh,.,.
[16:32]  * bazhang backs away, saying 'not my fault'..
[16:32] <bod_> so, is there a hardy live cd,.,. or how would i install hardy on a disk with no os, would i have to put gutsy on it then dist-upgrade there?
[16:32] <bazhang> live cd bod_
[16:33] <bod_> bazhang, just checked the ubuntu site, cant find the hardy iso,,.can u link me please
[16:33] <bazhang> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha5 bod_
[16:34] <gj_schouten> Hey someone knows how to make my hp zd8000 laptop less noisy and less heating using ubuntu hardy???? suggestions for using APM instead of ACPI and maybe powersaved instead of apmd????
[16:36] <bod_> cheers bazhang,.,.
[16:36]  * bod_ twiddles thumbs while cursing at this slow 2mb download speed
[16:36] <bazhang> bod_: ;]
[16:36] <bazhang> get the torrent!
[16:37] <gj_schouten> Hey someone knows how to make my hp zd8000 laptop less noisy and less heating using ubuntu hardy???? suggestions for using APM instead of ACPI and maybe powersaved instead of apmd????
[16:37] <bod_> bazhang, why, my torrents are just as slow
[16:37] <bazhang> oh ;[
[16:39] <bod_> does hardy have its own repo's or is it using gutsy repo's?
[16:39] <bazhang> its own bod_
[16:40] <bod_> bazhang, cool, 1 other thing, kubuntu gutsy has a right click-->run as root   option so you dont have to use terminal to open pros with pivileges, does hardy ubuntu have something similar?
[16:41] <bazhang> let me check bod_
[16:41] <bod_> ty ;~)
[16:42] <bazhang> right click on the desktop bod_?
[16:42] <gj_schouten> anyone knows whats better when it comes to cpu overheating fan control using ubuntu on a hp zd8000 notebook??? acpi or apm and which daemons????
[16:43] <bod_> bazhang, what? does that work,.,. im using gutsy atm,.,.,.,.15% hardy download
[16:44] <bazhang> on the desktop bod_? then not that I can see..
[16:44] <hwilde_> bazhang, I think that is a nautilus install option...
[16:44] <bod_> bazhang, oh, do you mean a desktop edition -- yes
[16:44] <bazhang> hwilde_: you are likely right
[16:44] <hwilde_> apt-get install nautilus-gksu   I think
[16:44] <bazhang> there you go bod_
[16:45] <hwilde_> I always do that and   apt-get install nautilus-open-terminal
[16:45] <bod_> hwilde_, cool, cheers, just checked synaptic, its there
[16:45] <bod_> hwilde_, what does that one do?
[16:45] <hwilde_> right click, open terminal option
[16:45] <hwilde_> bazhang, sry if I had attitude earlier this arp thing is destroying my brain.
[16:46] <bod_> hwilde_, oh, ive got it on hotkey ctrl+alt+z   so thats quicker for me ;~)
[16:46] <bazhang> hwilde_: hehe no worries ;]
[16:46] <bod_> 20%
[16:46] <bod_> this could take some time brb
[16:49]  * bod_ tum tee tum
[16:51] <bod_> 30%
[16:52]  * bazhang gets some popcorn
[16:53]  * bod_ wonders whether bazhang has got sweet, salted or toffee popcorn.....
[16:53] <hwilde_> have you seen the new hot cheese popcorn from HErr's ?
[16:53] <Pici> !ot
[16:53] <hwilde_> its scarily curious
[16:53] <ubotu> #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, #ubuntu+1 supports the development version of Ubuntu and #ubuntu-offtopic is for random chatter. Welcome!
[16:54] <bod_> but you have to admit, its one of the funniest ot's ever
[16:54] <hwilde_> not like we're interrupting some serious discourse here lol
[16:54] <bod_> !lol
[16:54] <ubotu> Please don't use "LOL" and "OMG" and so forth on a regular basis. This is IRC, not IM, and using those lines on their own is not required, and it is rather annoying to the rest of the people in the channel; thanks.
[16:54] <bazhang> sorry Pici
[16:54] <bod_> apologies Pici
[16:56] <bod_> any idea what the codename for 8.10 is?
[16:56] <bod_> 40%
[16:56] <Pici> !8.10
[16:56] <ubotu> Intrepid Ibex is the code name for Ubuntu 8.10, due October 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IntrepidIbex
[16:56] <gj_schouten> anyone knows whats better when it comes to cpu overheating fan control using ubuntu on a hp zd8000 notebook??? acpi or apm and which daemons????
[16:57] <bod_> is that the latest codename or is there a 9.4 codename?
[16:57] <Pici> Thats the latest.
[16:57] <bod_> gj_schouten, you might have some luck in #ubuntu
[16:57] <bod_> Pici, what 8.10?
[16:57] <Pici> bod_: hes using Hardy.
[16:58] <bod_> Pici, yer, but the ubuntu guys may know in general what may cause overheating,.,. docs for fiesty work with gutsy -- that was my frame of thought
[16:58] <Pici> bod_: But those have both been released, Hardy has not.
[16:59] <Pici> Thats what this channel is for.
[16:59] <bod_> Pici, calm down,.,. was just a suggestion
[16:59] <bod_> i know, but he's not getting answers here
[16:59] <Pici> bod_: I'm not uncalm :), just clarifying.
[16:59] <bod_> Pici, ok,.,.;~)
[17:02] <bod_> 50%  haha,.,. im off to help in #ubuntu ,.
[17:07] <savvas> i got a weird firefox error
[17:07] <savvas> ASSERT: null node
[17:07] <savvas> Stack Trace:
[17:07] <savvas> 0:PU_nodeIsFolder(null)
[17:07] <savvas> 1:BT_onClick([object MouseEvent])
[17:07] <savvas> 2:onclick([object MouseEvent])
[17:11] <Do``> hey guys
[17:11] <Do``> did anyone experience problems with xorg?
[17:11] <Do``> it seems it doesn't save my settings and boots with default settings every time
[17:11] <Do``> i couldn't find anything related in launchpad though /:
[17:12] <Do``> doing a manual dpkg-reconfigure xorg-server didn't help either
[17:23] <bod_> 70%
[17:33] <emet_> is Firefox 3 to be the default browser in hardy?
[18:03] <Lasivian> greetings
[18:04] <Lasivian> I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the Hermes I wireless chipset and if it's been added into Hardy
[18:05] <Lasivian> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=583426 <-- the problem i'm talking about
[18:05] <Lasivian> it seems Hostap was written to handle the Prism II chipset, and the Hermes I was left unsupported
[18:07] <kekZpriester> danke
[18:12] <Kuni> so the inability to perform a partial upgrade...is that normal atm?
[18:14] <savvas> Kuni: what do you mean?
[18:15] <savvas> emet_: yes, firefox 3 beta 3 is the default browser for hardy heron, i don't know if it will stay that way though :)
[18:15] <Kuni> The upgrade manager tells me I can't upgrade, but can try a partial upgrade. I try that, it says "can't calculate partial upgrade"
[18:15] <Kuni> When I look at the upgrade packages, everything related to open office is unchecked.
[18:16] <savvas> you executed update-manager -d ?
[18:16] <macogw> Kuni: the hyphenation package might still be broken
[18:16] <Kuni> k
[18:16] <Kuni> savvas: yeah
[18:16] <bazhang> it was fixed here
[18:17] <macogw> savvas: why would they get rid of ff3?
[18:17] <macogw> ff2's going to lose support in a year or so....it wont be supported throughout the LTS
[18:17] <savvas> macogw: well I don't know if it will make it as stable until april :)
[18:17] <savvas> hm..
[18:17] <macogw> er....what's not stable about it?
[18:18] <Kuni> ah, heh, a re-check fixed this issue. No partial upgrade anymore
[18:18] <emet_> macogw, yeah it might be only an RC by April 24th
[18:18] <savvas> that's why they have a 8.04.1 planned in june/july
[18:18] <macogw> oh i didnt know that
[18:18] <savvas> I'm really not sure, I'm not a developer :)
[18:18] <emet_> no one is sure yet
[18:18] <macogw> well ive only got one problem on ff3, and that's the fault of the developer of firebug for abandoning the project after ff2
[18:18] <emet_> it might be final by the release date
[18:18] <macogw> no i meant i didnt know there'd be a 8.04.1
[18:18] <savvas> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
[18:19] <Kuni> tentative june 5th for 8.04.1
[18:20] <savvas> I guess it's meant for apps like firefox 3, in case they don't make it in the final release
[18:20] <macogw> with dapper the 6.06.1 was because the installer was broken for a big chunk of computers, right?
[18:23] <Derevko> anyway in universe there is firefox-2
[18:23] <savvas> aye
[18:23] <savvas> macogw: I read about that somewhere, not sure
[18:23] <frank_> macogw: I thought it was just dapper with all the updates released up to that point
[18:24] <macogw> frank_: i installed in july and it was 6.06.1...it was only released at the end of june
[18:24] <savvas> it was something about the partition manager used in ubiquity?
[18:24] <frank_> macogw: oh. I guess I was wrong then...
[18:24] <macogw> gparted/
[18:25] <macogw> *?
[18:26] <Amaranth> macogw: it was mainly just a grouping of all the updates currently available
[18:26] <Amaranth> was a good time to get those installer fixes in there though :)
[18:29] <Viaken> I'm getting odd behavior out of my nvidia card. When I try to drop to console, the screen stays black. When the screen is turned off by power management, it won't show a picture again until I ctrl-alt-f1, ctrl-alt-f7.
[18:33] <macogw> Amaranth: oh ok
[18:33] <macogw> Viaken: is framebuffer on?
[18:34] <macogw> Viaken: i know in gutsy with framebuffer the tty's dont work
[18:34] <macogw> maybe that bug's back
[18:35] <hwilde_> !webcam
[18:35] <Viaken> ...how do I check?
[18:35] <hwilde_> anybody seen ubotu ?
[18:35] <Viaken> No /dev/fb*
[18:37] <macogw> he quit a fw minutes ago
[18:37] <macogw> Viaken: when the tty was working, did you have little text or big ugly text?
[18:38] <Amaranth> ubotu is coming back in a minute
[18:38] <Amaranth> it is actually on now, just takes a while to get back in all the channels
[18:39] <macogw> what does OOo writer2latex do?
[18:39] <macogw> does it create LaTeX output of whatever you do WYSIWYG-style, like LyX does?
[18:41] <Lasivian> how do I request a driver be added to Hardy?
[18:41] <Viaken> macogw: When it was working? I've not seen it work yet... I suppose I could try bootlevel 2.
[18:41] <atrus> huh, my usb mass-storage mp3 player doesn't mount anymore
[18:42] <macogw> Viaken: this isnt red hat :
[18:42] <macogw> :p
[18:42] <macogw> 2-5 in Debian are the same
[18:42] <Viaken> ...oh
[18:42] <macogw> i actually think 2 is ubuntu's default
[18:42] <atrus> Unable to mount SanDisk Corp. Sansa E200 series: Error initializing camera: -1: Unspecified error
[18:42] <Viaken> I run Gentoo on most of my machines. :P Sorry...
[18:43] <macogw> do you have a vga=number in the boot parameters?
[18:43]  * Viaken goes to get his E280 to try it.
[18:43] <Viaken> Nope, macogw
[18:45] <macogw> Viaken: k then its probably not framebuffer.  dont know.  my mom's comp does that sometimes, but her graphics chip has been in its death throes for 3 years now
[18:45] <Viaken> Mine worked fine til Hardy
[18:45]  * Viaken shrugs
[18:45] <Amaranth> nvidia boog
[18:45] <Viaken> Not a huge deal, but an annoyance.
[18:45] <Amaranth> Someone like that is _always_ a driver bug (or bad hardware)
[18:46] <Amaranth> It might be a change in the kernel or X server that caused it but it is the driver's responsibility to deal with it
[18:46] <Viaken> atrus: Mine works fine. Yours in MTP mode?
[18:46] <atrus> usb storage
[18:46] <Viaken> Which one is it, specifically?
[18:46] <atrus> (i also use it as a usb key)
[18:46] <atrus> sansa e280
[18:46] <Viaken> Not that it should matter
[18:46] <Amaranth> atrus: Does it mount? Or does it just not show up in rhythmbox or something?
[18:47] <atrus> pops up that error message when it's plugged in now.
[18:47] <atrus> worked a couple weeks ago, suspect it's related to gvfs? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/198516
[18:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 198516 in gvfs "Cannot mount my Sansa E260" [Undecided,New]
[18:47]  * Viaken updates rockbox
[18:47] <atrus> nothing shows up in /dev/sdb either, which is annoying.
[18:48] <Amaranth> atrus: What is the error message?
[18:48] <Amaranth> launchpad is loading slow :P
 Unable to mount SanDisk Corp. Sansa E200 series: Error initializing camera: -1: Unspecified error
[18:48] <macogw> atrus: files wouldnt show in /dev/sdb though...itd just exist if it exists or it wont
[18:49] <Viaken> What's lsusb say?
[18:49] <atrus> Bus 005 Device 014: ID 0781:7421 SanDisk Corp. Sansa E200 series
[18:49] <atrus> bbiab
[18:49] <Amaranth> It is being detected as a camera?
[18:49] <Amaranth> That would be a hal problem
[18:49] <atrus> i dunno why it would be
[18:49] <Viaken> Does it mount on other systems?
[18:50] <Amaranth> Maybe a hal update setup a rule that started picking your device up as a camera accidentally
[18:51] <Amaranth> So then hal tells gio/gvfs "hey I have a camera here" and it falls over
[18:53] <abbie> can someone point me to installing new java for ff3
[18:53] <Viaken> I usually just install ubuntu-restricted-extras. XD
[18:55] <savvas> abbie: the java plugin for firefox?
[18:55] <savvas> i think ubuntu will use iced-tea from now on
[18:56] <savvas> (the application, not the drink :P)
[18:57] <abbie> java doesn't work on my firefox3
[18:58] <abbie> the install is for firefox2?
[18:58] <Amaranth> abbie: you have to use icedtea
[18:59] <abbie> thankyou very much
[18:59] <Lasivian> How can I check if a driver I need has been added to Hardy?
[19:01] <mooboo1> please make pidgin 2.4 in repo
[19:13] <savvas> mooboo1: try report a bug with a [wish] in the subject :)
[19:22] <Pici> !hardy
[19:22] <ubotu> Hardy Heron is the code name for the next release of Ubuntu (8.04-LTS), due April 2008 - For more info, see: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron - CONSIDER IT TO BE PRE BETA (ALPHA) SOFTWARE - Discussion and support in #ubuntu+1, NOT #ubuntu
[19:29] <user5> hello
[19:30] <user5> somoone some problem about amarok in hardy?
[19:30] <user5> after update of today?
[19:31] <user5> no going mp3 plugin in amarok
[19:31] <user5> news about this problem
[19:39] <mattik> Hello, I like to know how new vi have to work in Kubuntu Hardy. If I press i for insert and I move cursor by arrow buttons it write capital letters and I cannot end vi. I tried it command sudo visudo
[19:45] <mattik> yes normal vi works right but visudo not
[19:46] <TheArthur> i cant sudo unless im online
[19:47] <Viaken> err
[19:47] <Viaken> What error do you get?
[19:47] <TheArthur> cannot resole <my-hose-name>
[19:48] <TheArthur> i added 127.0.0.1 <hostname>
[19:48] <TheArthur> to etc/hosts and fixed
[19:48] <TheArthur> but had to find a wireless AP to fix it ;)
[20:15] <user5> hello
[20:16] <user5> sameone problem with amarok after update today?
[20:16] <rsk> hey
[20:16] <user5> on nhardy kubu 804
[20:18] <a1fa> hm
[20:18] <a1fa> hey
[20:18] <user5> hi
[20:18] <a1fa> pckg manager is pissing me off
[20:18] <a1fa> i want to manually add those sources
[20:19] <mooboo1> I have a dual-core CPU with 4gb RAM and 7200rpm SATA2 disk, yet it happens that my MP3 skips
[20:19] <donspaulding> hi all, with the upgrade to FF3, I've somehow lost the ability to login to basic-auth sites
[20:20] <donspaulding> anyone else seen this problem?
[20:20] <mooboo1> not tried
[20:20] <mooboo1> you tried http://user:pass@host/ ?
[20:20] <mooboo1> you can report on bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/ or bugzilla.mozilla.com
[20:21] <donspaulding> mooboo1: yeah, I didn't see any similar bugs on there the other day, I'll submit one.
[20:22] <user5> I have a little bug on amarok for plugin mp3 audio
[20:22] <donspaulding> mooboo1: weird, that worked
[20:22] <user5> don't it go afte up date today
[20:22] <mooboo1> i use ff3b3 and check my Gmail ATOM feeds with https://user:pass@mail.google.com/mail/feed/atom
[20:22] <mooboo1> if you have gmail, try if that works
[20:23] <mooboo1> if you dont have gmail, try it anyways :p
[20:23] <donspaulding> mooboo1: I do, and it did.
[20:24] <donspaulding> the moz irc folks pointed me here, I suppose I should open the bug at launchpad, not mozilla right?  I mean, it'll get forwarded upstream if it needs to?
[20:28] <mooboo1> not sure
[20:40] <gilster32> anyone here using compiz on an ATI X300 card. I have it working sem-smoothly on heron without xserver-xgl . was wandering if i should still be using that regardless
[20:40] <gilster32> anyone here using compiz on an ATI X300 card. I have it working sem-smoothly on heron without xserver-xgl . was wandering if i should still be using that regardless
[20:41] <savvas> we saw you the first time :)
[20:41] <savvas> it's not like in #ubuntu - you don't get much traffic here
[20:42] <gilster32> yes i know. i didnt see my full text here.
[20:47] <mooboo1> the font in firefox3 is strange
[20:47] <mooboo1> anyone notice?
[20:48] <mooboo1> like the font for the gui
[20:48] <mooboo1> its not the system font
[21:03] <gilster32> let me reword my question
[21:04] <gilster32> when i install xgl on my Heron, i get the nasty gnome-settings-daemon error.
[21:04] <gilster32> what is the way around this problem? anyone experience this?
[21:05] <mooboo1> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/12449331/Screenshot.png <-- look font in firefox menu & gnome menu is not same
[21:10] <mooboo1> 24939 packages in repository! We must make it 25000!
[21:14] <savvas> who said so?
[21:14] <savvas> mooboo1: ok i have one for you: make a gui for crash reports :)
[21:15] <savvas> (patent pending, tm, r, c, and copyleft) :P
[21:18] <Viaken> copyup?
[21:24] <gilster32> i have CF running now on the fgrlx ati drivers and it seems to work ok but not great. I do not have XGL installed. When installed it i get a gnome-settings-daemon error
[21:26] <gilster32> is anyone here using Compiz with an ATI x300 card?
[21:27] <gilster32> is there anybody out there!!!
[21:35] <panosru> hi when i insert an audio cd i get the error message: The playback of this movie requires a Audio CD source plugin which is not installed.
[21:49] <Q-FUNK> I know the freeze is on, but any chance we'd get pidgin upgraded to 2.4.0 before the release?
[21:50] <Q-FUNK> or is there any package made already for hardy+1 that I could process through pbuilder?
[21:50] <RAOF> Q-FUNK: Do the paperwork for the freeze-exception, and the chances are greater.
[21:51] <RAOF> There are no hardy+1 packages at this time.  Everyone's working on Hardy!
[21:51] <Q-FUNK> RAOF: ok, fair enough :)
[21:53]  * Q-FUNK files the sync request and produces the diffstat
[22:06] <Odd-rationale> Is there a list of new features for hardy? Thanks!
[22:06] <Flannel> Odd-rationale: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyHeron/Alpha5
[22:07] <Odd-rationale> Thanks!
[22:07] <RAOF> Aww, yeah!  Gnash 0.8.2!
[22:11] <RAOF> And NM 0.6.6
[22:17] <Odd-rationale> Hmm. I'm surprised that something like banshee or exaile is not replacing rhythmbox...
[22:17] <rbs-tito> Odd-rationale: Why?
[22:18] <rbs-tito> Odd-rationale: Rhythmbox is still the most HIG compliant, and is the best integrated into the GNOME desktop
[22:19] <Odd-rationale> Rhythmbox gets the job done well. Can't complain...
[22:20] <Odd-rationale> rbs-tito: Isn't banshee an gnome project?
[22:21] <rbs-tito> Odd-rationale: I'm not sure. It is definitely not as HIG compliant though, and it doesn't have the nice  soundjuicer integration going on
[22:23] <nemo> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/totem/+bug/191027
[22:23] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 191027 in totem ""Failed to connect stream: Invalid argument"" [Low,New]
[22:23] <nemo> anyone else running into this?
[22:23] <nemo> Odd-rationale: Audacious :-p
[22:24] <Odd-rationale> nemo: Audacious is not bad. (this is getting ot now...)
[22:28] <a1fa> how do you enable dapper-proposed deposatory?
[22:29] <Odd-rationale> Yay! Hardy will be able to restore files from trash! I missed this feature...
[22:34] <a1fa> lol
[22:34] <a1fa> anyone in here
[22:34] <nalioth> a1fa: dapper kind aold
[22:34] <nalioth> er
[22:34] <a1fa> sorru
[22:34] <a1fa> sorry
[22:34] <a1fa> i ment to say hardy
[22:35] <a1fa> when i run update-manager -d
[22:35] <a1fa> nothing happens
[22:35] <a1fa> so i cant upgrade to hardy
[22:36] <nemo> Say. What happens when Hardy stabilises. do all ubuntu testers automatically get bumped to Irascible Iguana or whatever comes next?
[22:36] <nemo> or do we stay on Hardy?
[22:36] <a1fa> so now i replaced my apt source to hardy
[22:36] <a1fa> :P
[22:36] <Pici> nemo: you stay on hardy
[22:36] <nemo> good
[22:36] <pwnguin> you stay on hardy
[22:36] <nemo> given I moved my mom to hardy rather reluctantly :)
[22:36] <pwnguin> brave
[22:37] <nemo> was forced on me :(
[22:37] <pwnguin> how so?
[22:38] <nemo> halfway through Gutsy soundsystem got screwed up.
[22:38] <nemo> So bad, that every single app that used sound was hanging or crashing
[22:38] <pwnguin> odd
[22:38] <nemo> yeah. that's one word for it :-p
[22:38] <pwnguin> my roommate cant install linux
[22:38] <pwnguin> not for a lack of trying
[22:38] <nemo> found a bug with similar behaviour, and was recommended Hardy
[22:39] <pwnguin> ah
[22:39] <pwnguin> well, the developers usually say
[22:39] <pwnguin> "does it work in hardy"
[22:39] <pwnguin> it's kind of a cop out
[22:39] <dencrypt> can anyone reach http://acid3.acidtests.org/ here?
[22:40] <pwnguin> because people reporting bugs in stable versions usually dont, wont and cant run development branch
[22:40] <Artimus> dencrypt: Blame Slashdot
[22:40] <nemo> pwnguin: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/145747 in case you're curious
[22:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145747 in ubuntu "Sound system locks up" [Undecided,Fix released]
[22:40] <pwnguin> what i really like though
[22:40] <pwnguin> is when i complain about my laptop's microphone jacksense
[22:40] <dencrypt> Artimus: yeah. Their all a bunch a let-y'all-know-all-people.
[22:40] <nemo> Artimus: acid3 hit /. ?
[22:41] <pwnguin> and being asked if it works in cvs
[22:41] <Artimus> nemo: Yes, just a little bit ago
[22:42] <nemo> so much for my testing acid2 in IE8 :-/
[22:44] <Hydrogen> yea.. because browsers that are acid-2 complaint are definatly the most useful browsers currently existing.
[22:45] <nemo> well, I suspect I'm going to have to alter my optimistic tests on my site
[22:45] <nemo> right now, I was whitelisting IE8 - treating it just like Opera or Firefox or Safari
[22:46] <nemo> that included assuming it handled <button> correctly, and knew what to do if a page had an <object> and could figure out what would happen if said object was, say, application/xhtml+xml or heck the page was
[22:46] <nemo> from some of what I've been hearing, hoping IE8 could pass the bar of last year may be a wee bit optimistic
[22:49] <Hydrogen> the real question
[22:49] <Hydrogen> is why the hell are you talking about it here?
[22:49] <Hydrogen> It has absolutely nothing to do with hardy heron
[22:50] <nemo> Hydrogen: I have no clue. pwnguin started it :-p
[22:50] <pwnguin> what?
[22:50] <nemo> Hydrogen: and hell. you kept it up
[22:51] <oliver_g1> hello
[22:51] <oliver_g1> any ubuntu-artwork ppl in here?
[22:51] <nemo> oops
[22:51] <nemo> pwnguin: sorry. dencrypt started it :)
[22:52] <oliver_g1> anyway... maybe you (=artwork ppl) could tweak the color of hyperlinks, like the links in the usual Gnome About dialogs?
[22:52] <oliver_g1> the links are currently in orange on grey, which is difficult to read
[22:53] <pwnguin> oliver_g1: perhaps a screenshot?
[22:54] <nemo> oliver_g1: adjust your contrast? :)
[22:54] <oliver_g1> pwnguin: screenshot coming in a minute :-)
[22:55] <oliver_g1> btw. do you know a better image hosting site than imageshack? Something like "image paste"?
[22:56] <oliver_g1> nemo: adjusting contrast might be an option, but having "contrast-full" colors from the start is nice as well :-)
[22:57] <nemo> oliver_g1: ubuntu does make some curious artsy decisions
[22:58] <twb> Has anybody successfully installed slapd on hardy?
[22:59] <oliver_g1> nemo: yup... orange-brown is a curious decision for itself...
[23:00] <oliver_g1> btw. I do like the new theme (so far), it's just irritating that it comes so close to the Hardy release, and there are so many minor glitches with it :-/
[23:00] <nemo> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/271191/Ubuntu_Hardy_Heron_1
[23:01] <nemo> oliver_g1: the ubuntu palletes are presumably intended to recall a kind of pallette of human skin tones?
[23:01] <nemo> just guessing
[23:01] <nemo> they have that kind of melanin feel
[23:01] <nemo> http://www.colourlovers.com/palette/271187/Ubuntu_Hardy_Heron
[23:01]  * oliver_g1 just blinks at the just-updated just-rebooted Hardy and wants to undo his comment about murrine glitches
[23:01] <pwnguin> oliver_g1: there's an entire channel for art, if you havent found it
[23:02] <oliver_g1> never mind... looks like many glitches have been fixed :-)
[23:02] <oliver_g1> pwnguin: a whole channel for what?
[23:02] <pwnguin> ubuntu-artwork
[23:02] <oliver_g1> oh
[23:02] <twb> Is there a TECHNICAL reason command-not-found-data can't just be an `apt-file update'?
[23:02] <pwnguin> well
[23:03] <pwnguin> there's the matter of apt-file not being installed by default ;)
[23:03] <pwnguin> and apt-file being in universe
[23:03] <oliver_g1> nemo: yes, it's probably a close-to-earth/nature feeling that shall be conveyed by the orange-brown...
[23:04] <twb> pwnguin: so build-depend on it
[23:04] <pwnguin> OGRE
[23:04] <twb> pwnguin: universe I can understand, although it annoys me.
[23:04] <twb> Er, s/build/pre/
[23:04]  * DanaG uses a bright-orange Aurora theme.
[23:04] <oliver_g1> here's the screenshot, but I will now better look in ubuntu-artwork channel for this: http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2595/hardymurrinelinkcolor1om5.png
[23:05] <pwnguin> man
[23:05] <pwnguin> i should reboot
[23:05] <twb> It looks like a server install doesn't result in console-* .postinst configure being done.
[23:05] <twb> Oh, maybe it's because I bumped debconf priority to "low" on this box.
[23:05] <pwnguin> cuz mine doesn't look like that
[23:06] <pwnguin> why would you do that?
[23:06] <oliver_g1> pwnguin: OMG lame yuo are not uptodate!!111!
[23:06] <twb> pwnguin: to whom are you speaking?
[23:06] <oliver_g1> ;)
[23:06] <pwnguin> twb: why would you set debconf to low?
[23:07] <twb> pwnguin: because slapd and krb assume that my machine only has one network, and picks the wrong domain if I'm not paying attention.
[23:07] <twb> Also because I was debugging slapd being broken
[23:09] <pwnguin> ok
[23:10] <oliver_g1> so, any idea why after the update and reboot I now have a little SCIM applet in the panel? I didn't ask for it :-)
[23:13] <DanaG> Hmm, new Murrine looks phunky.
[23:14] <DanaG> The squarish reflections are odd.
[23:15] <DanaG> I should post a screenshot of my theme.
[23:16] <DanaG> Can't do it right now, though -- I'm not at home.
[23:16] <twb> DanaG: ssh alice.danag.org env DISPLAY=:0 import -window root tmp.png
[23:17] <twb> Maybe using startx remotely first :-)
[23:17] <oliver_g1> twb: does that also work with MIT-MAGIC-FU-COOKIE-MONSTER and that stuff
[23:17] <oliver_g1> ?
[23:17] <twb> oliver_g1: you don't need it
[23:17] <twb> Unless you use gdm, I guess.  Then you need to work out what XAUTHORITY is set to
[23:18] <oliver_g1> twb: ok... nowadays you probably instead need a policy-kit token and have to connect to the sessions dbus first to invoke "import" >:-)
[23:18] <twb> My .Xclients does a little dance to make gdm put .Xauthority back in the traditional place, so I can access the (emphemeral) X server from persistent screen sessions and remote ssh and suchlike.
[23:18] <twb> oliver_g1: import(1) doesn't need dbus.
[23:19] <oliver_g1> twb: not yet ;)
[23:19] <twb> Don't scare me like that
[23:19] <twb> Even goddamn dnsmasq wants dbus these days :-/
[23:19] <oliver_g1> BWAHARHARHARRRR
[23:19] <twb> It's a conspiracy
[23:19] <oliver_g1> YOUR DESKTOP IS MIIIIINE!
[23:19] <twb> I'm more worried about the servers
[23:20]  * oliver_g1 is reminded of that .sig mentioning the mozilla-gnome-cabal...
[23:22] <oliver_g1> .. ah yes, here it is: http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=78492&cid=6962420
[23:23] <oliver_g1> and to make this more real and scary: some weeks ago I somebody in #ubuntu asked how to start the screensaver on the machine where he was logged in with ssh... Suffice to say, gnome-screensaver indeed requires DBUS, and without the session bus ID/whatever, it won't respond :-/
[23:23] <DanaG> I don't run an ssh server, actually; I also don't leave my laptop on when I'm not present.  Next time around, I'm getting a smaller notebook.
[23:24] <twb> XO-1!
[23:25] <DanaG> Hmm, if I got that, I'd still want another DTR-ish system.
[23:25] <twb> DTR?
[23:25] <twb> Oh.
[23:26] <J-_laptop> hmmm weird, computer failed to suspend but it did suspend all day which left me with 10% battery life
[23:26] <twb> Pfft.  I only use an eeePC now; I no longer have any other computer (except for rackmount stuff in colos).
[23:26] <Lasivian> How can I check if a driver I need has been added to Hardy?
[23:26] <DanaG> My current laptop is a Gateway M685 (also known as NX860 series).  17", 7.5 pounds.  Core Duo 1.83GHz, 1 gig RAM, 128MB Go 7600, Hitachi 7k200-200.
[23:27] <twb> Wow, only 128MB?
[23:27] <DanaG> The one thing that bugs me about the Eee: it could have probably something like TWICE the battery life if they'd used a Pentium M instead of a Celeron.
[23:27] <DanaG> Yeah, Gateway played it cheap.
[23:27] <twb> Even the XO-1 has 256, IIRC
[23:27] <DanaG> 1 gig RAM.  128 is VRAM.
[23:27] <twb> Oh.
[23:28] <twb> I'd feel bad about not using Geode on the eeePC if it weren't for the fact that i8x0 is so much less hassle than openchrome.
[23:33] <DanaG> I want my next notebook to be 14 or 15-inch, with nothing weaker-for-its-generation than the Go 7600 was for that generation.
[23:36] <Jordan_U> Is there a reason that update-manager is not offering to perform a dist-upgrade for openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us but apt-get dist-upgrade is willing to?
[23:39]  * LimCore dicovers another application that fails massivly to work
[23:40] <LimCore> can't OFFS guys get even half of popular programs at windows-world-like quality?
[23:40] <oliver_g1> LimCore: which specific app do you mean?
[23:40] <LimCore> oliver_g1: nessus (the client) crashes
[23:41] <oliver_g1> whats nessus?
[23:41] <LimCore> wait I will report it. as I do every day.
[23:41] <oliver_g1> !info nessus
[23:41] <ubotu> nessus (source: nessus-core): Remote network security auditor, the client. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2.9-2 (hardy), package size 222 kB, installed size 576 kB
[23:41] <oliver_g1> LimCore: if it crashes, didn't it offer to make send a backtrace etc.?
[23:41] <LimCore> no
[23:41] <LimCore> kde apps do that
[23:41]  * oliver_g1 loves the apport feature
[23:41] <LimCore> I run it in gdb though
[23:41] <oliver_g1> LimCore: well try running it normally
[23:42] <LimCore> it crashes as well
[23:42] <LimCore> why do you think I run it in gdb?
[23:42] <oliver_g1> LimCore: yes but then it will (should) bundle up all info and send it to Launchpad
[23:42] <LimCore> it didnt
[23:42] <oliver_g1> the crash reporter is really nice
[23:42] <LimCore> actually I never seen such thing
[23:42] <LimCore> how to enable it?
[23:42] <oliver_g1> unfortunately the crash reporter _also_ has bugs :-D
[23:43] <pwnguin> does apport run with kubuntu?
[23:43] <oliver_g1> oh
[23:43] <LimCore> free software: by bored devlopers for pennyless users \o/
[23:43] <oliver_g1> dunno if apport runs/is installed under kubuntu at all
[23:43] <LimCore> oliver_g1: so where it is installed?
[23:43] <pwnguin> i find it hilarious that a security researcher is complaining that windows is better
[23:44] <oliver_g1> LimCore: do you have the directory /var/crash/ ?
[23:44] <oliver_g1> LimCore: whats in it?
[23:44] <LimCore> pwnguin: more reading skills, you need.
[23:44] <oliver_g1> pwnguin: did I miss some news?
[23:44] <LimCore> oliver_g1: only _usr_bin_restricted-manager-kde.*.crash
[23:45] <Jordan_U> Is there a reason that update-manager is not offering to perform a dist-upgrade for openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us but apt-get dist-upgrade is willing to?
[23:45] <oliver_g1> LimCore: well that's not enough...
[23:45] <LimCore> oliver_g1: pwnguin missread my previous statement
[23:45] <pwnguin> is offs a specific entity and not a typo?
[23:45] <LimCore> pwnguin: windows programs != windows
[23:46] <LimCore> windows as system is far inferior to ubuntu in terms of security/stability etc, esp. vista
[23:46] <oliver_g1> LimCore: if you run nessus in gdb, does it actually crash with segv?
[23:46] <LimCore> windows programs are usually far superior to linux programs on the other hand
[23:46] <twb> LimCore: I disagree.
[23:46] <pwnguin> except when they're the same program
[23:46] <LimCore> twb: I can report monthly at least 30 serious bugs while using ubuntu
[23:47] <LimCore> twb: with windows it was like 1 per month
[23:47] <twb> LimCore: I meant, I disgree that Windows programs are generally superior to those for Linux.
[23:47] <LimCore> using typical popular windows, and typical popular ubuntu programs for everyday work etc
[23:47] <twb> With the exception of special domains (e.g. medical imaging) where there is no implementation for GNU/Linux.
[23:48] <LimCore> twb: ubuntu, and most distros (all probably) are INCREDIBLY buggy. It was rare to encounter serious bug in a popular windows application.. perhaps one bug pre month. not 30 per month!
[23:48] <twb> LimCore: so when you say "applications" you mean "desktop applications that I've used"?
[23:48] <LimCore> in 2 years using windows email client (thebat) I  0 time lost email,   0 times it crashed,
[23:48] <LimCore> kmail lost 4 my emails, and crashed 5 times this week
[23:48] <pwnguin> the beauty of open source is that theres several tools to get the job done. the tragic beauty is that you dont know which one is any good at it ;)
[23:49] <twb> All Software Sucks.  All Hardware Sucks.  QED
[23:49] <pwnguin> so, we're not going to mention outlook?
[23:49] <LimCore> pwnguin: I would prefer one _good_ tool.  evolution is next in line, if kmail continues to be a smoking pile of coredumps
[23:49] <twb> Evolution isn't exactly "good".
[23:50] <LimCore> pwnguin: typical windows programs are better, just avoid the ones by M$
[23:50] <pwnguin> heh
[23:50] <oliver_g1> twb: I use Linux at work and must admit that it's seriously buggy...
[23:50] <LimCore> twb: ok, so evolution is not good, kmail crashes like crazy, what then?!
[23:50] <twb> oliver_g1: you would prefer Mach?
[23:50]  * pwnguin uses linux and fixes it
[23:50] <twb> LimCore: well, I use mutt and gnus.
[23:50] <oliver_g1> twb: and it's buggier than the Windows and Windows apps in terminal server
[23:50] <LimCore> twb: nativeamrican, please
[23:50] <LimCore> twb: gui, advanced filters, openpgp
[23:50] <LimCore> +integration with address book
[23:51] <oliver_g1> twb: ok, you got me there :-) in fact, I use a Red Hat KDE desktop, and it and it's apps are seriously buggy
[23:51] <pwnguin> MINIX will solve everything
[23:51] <twb> Both mutt and gnus have a GUI and support GnuPG.
[23:51] <pwnguin> software will run like cars and set top boxes!
[23:51] <twb> For filters I'd use procmail.
[23:51] <LimCore> twb: can I drag&drop?
[23:51] <twb> I don't know.
[23:51] <twb> I don't use a mouse.
[23:51] <LimCore> can I fastly move emails between folders when I sort them?
[23:51] <twb> LimCore: sure.
[23:52] <LimCore> unicode, i/a-spell ?
[23:52] <twb> I don't know about spelling.  I know they both support CJK, Hebrew and Greek.
[23:52] <ethana2> ...man, i wish the system monitor would show me per-app resource usage graphically
[23:52] <LimCore> support for many identities with separeate language for each identity
[23:52] <twb> They will almost certainly have poor bidi support.
[23:53] <twb> I don't know about that; you might prefer Claws.
[23:53] <LimCore> twb: only kmail had all feautures I need... but its crashable
[23:53] <LimCore> I tried it as well, sucked
[23:53] <pwnguin> i hear good things about thunderbird
[23:53] <twb> For me, "not crashing" is a core feature.
[23:53] <LimCore> entire program hanged when downloading email, obviously developer of Claws didnt know threads
[23:53] <twb> Downloading mail is fetchmail's job.
[23:53] <Jordan_U> Is there a reason that update-manager is not offering to perform a dist-upgrade for openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us but apt-get dist-upgrade is willing to?
[23:54] <LimCore> pwnguin: thunderbird is breain dead about support for several accounts/identities
[23:54] <pwnguin> sounds like you want evolution then ;)
[23:54] <LimCore> evolution sucked with something
[23:54] <LimCore> I think it was lack of identities
[23:55] <LimCore> kmail is approaching windows-application-quality about feautures but it is incredibly unstable
[23:55] <pwnguin> it definately supports multiple inboxes and send as
[23:55] <LimCore> if they will fix kmail, then in mid 2008 linux will have allication as good as windows had in 2002, wtf.
[23:55] <pwnguin> psh
[23:55] <pwnguin> personally, i just use gmail
[23:55] <pwnguin> i love the threading stuff
[23:55] <LimCore> and when you work offline?
[23:55] <twb> You can use all these MUAs with gmail.
[23:56] <pwnguin> "offline"?
[23:56] <LimCore> I would really love for random people in usa to read my emails
[23:56] <pwnguin> fair enough
[23:56] <LimCore> pwnguin: offline - with no internet access, i.e. laptop in travel
[23:57] <pwnguin> then i dont write