Hobbseeslangasek: what do you want with bugs that are a "please test if this is fixed in the next alpha"?00:40
* Hobbsee milestones, assigns to her, etc00:41
=== freeflyi1g is now known as freeflying
=== Pici` is now known as Pici
=== miguillo2 is now known as miguillo
superm1if any archive admins are about, can you see why https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mythtv/0.21.0~fixes16338-0ubuntu3/+build/530056 hasn't hit the archive yet?  It built like 8 hours ago.03:00
superm1and its not in NEW03:01
nosredna_ekimjcastro: ping.03:19
slangasekHobbsee: hmm, not sure what you mean; is the bug a serious one that needs milestoned in the first place, is the bug marked as 'fix released'...?03:52
Hobbseeslangasek: it's a "i could reproduce this originally, and it's not good for the final release if it's reproducable - it needs testing during our testing for t604:06
* Hobbsee can't seem to reproduce it now04:06
slangasekok; probably nominating/targetting it for hardy would be best I think04:07
Hobbseemhmm.  with the rest of them, that people say "affects hardy.  we hope it gets fixed sometime, but we have no fix in sight" ones04:08
Hobbsee(that's why i don't use affecting hardy04:08
superm1slangasek, would you mind checking why a build from about 8 hours didn't publish yet?04:09
Hobbseesuperm1: is probably soyuz bug :)04:09
slangasekHobbsee: well, I mean for the bugs that are targetted for hardy to actually be fixed for hardy in accordance with their severities :)04:09
slangaseksuperm1: sure, what do you have?04:09
Hobbseeslangasek: that's not what the others tend to use it for, but yeah04:10
superm1Hobbsee, now lets not be pessimistic or anything...04:10
Hobbseeoh damn, i didn't bring my laptop04:10
* Hobbsee could have rsynced.04:10
Hobbseesuperm1: of course not.  just aware of the way soyuz likes to work.04:10
Hobbseesuperm1: it's either in the new queue, or its' a bug, and soyuz has gotten hungry again.04:11
superm1its not in the new queue04:11
superm1nothing has changed with it that would have put it there, and i looked there a little bit ago to make sure04:11
superm1see and i dont even talk bad about soyuz, why would it want to eat my builds?04:11
superm1if anything it should eat yours :)04:11
* Hobbsee looks, blinks04:13
Hobbseesuperm1: erm.  what makes you think it's not published?04:14
slangaseksuperm1: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/mythtv/0.21.0~fixes16338-0ubuntu3/ shows it as 'done', yeah04:14
superm1Hobbsee, it hasn't shown up on archive.ubuntu.com or packages.ubuntu.com04:14
slangasekand drescher agrees that it's there...04:15
* Hobbsee points at mythtv-backends04:15
superm1look at mythtv-common04:15
superm1in archive.ubuntu.com04:15
superm1its missing04:15
Hobbseeoh, hmm04:15
Hobbseeso, some of the binaries are there04:16
superm1along with the rest of i38604:16
Hobbseesuperm1: mythtv-common is arch: all?04:16
Hobbseei thought it might be04:16
Hobbseesuperm1: it' ssitting on launchpad i fyou awnt to grab it from there04:17
Hobbseebut, uh, i suspect that's a soyuz bug :)04:17
superm1Hobbsee, its not a big deal for myself, but when the alternate disks go to build in 3 or 4 hours, they aren't going to like it04:18
slangasekthe CD builds pull directly from drescher, though04:19
slangasekso if there's an issue preventing it from being visible for archive.ubuntu.com, that won't affect the CD builds anyway04:20
Hobbseesuperm1: i think you'll need to poke cprov over that, and he doesnt' appear to be around.04:20
slangasekmythtv-common | 0.21.0~fixes16338-0ubuntu3 | hardy/multiverse | all04:20
slangasekthat's the one you're looking for?04:20
superm1well if the cd builds right from drescher not a big deal04:23
superm1that's the only thing that really matters to  get it in "tonight"04:23
superm1i'll wait for cprov tomorrow then for fixing it on a.u.c and p.u.c04:23
Hobbseehmm.  i need noise cancelling earphones, or to kick these giggling girls out of the lab.04:25
Hobbseeand then people complain about not that many females in IT.  Well, if they act like that, then no...04:26
HobbseeThere's a shopping centre ~10 mins away.  go there!04:26
TheMusoStevenK: supposed to be /aw04:40
TheMuso_MIf you have the ubuntustudio splah installed, you may also have to remove that.05:27
TheMusogah wrong channel05:27
brycewasabi: glad you like the gui - were my bug fix updates from today enough to get things sorted?05:35
slangaseksuperm1: yah, it doesn't build "right" from drescher, but the CD build servers all mirror directly from drescher05:39
brycewasabi: thanks, I've noted the feature requests.  Perhaps a hardy+1/+2 type thing05:44
brycewasabi: if you're ever interested in doing some cairo/gtk hacking, I'd be happy to point you at the code (it's not terribly complex) and explain it05:44
=== Fujitsu_ is now known as Fujitsu
=== Lutin_ is now known as Lutin
* Hobbsee smashes wget against a brick wall06:52
pittiGood morning07:12
* slangasek waves07:13
cody-somervilleHeya pitti07:13
slangasekogra_: artwork> which package does this refer to, precisely?07:26
ogra_ogra@ceron:~/devel/packages/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu-0.5.3$ dpkg -S /usr/share/backgrounds/simple-ubuntu.png07:27
ogra_ubuntu-wallpapers: /usr/share/backgrounds/simple-ubuntu.png07:27
ogra_wallpapers ...07:27
ogra_but i suspect other artwork packages might have grown as well ...07:28
TheMusoslangasek: I would need to check, but all the sounds for the sound scheme are at 44100Hz, 16 bit Stereo. At the least, I could resample them to 22050, and for a sound scheme, that wouldn't impact on their quality much for general use anyway.07:28
TheMusoslangasek: So, ubuntu-sounds being 2.3 currently, could be taken down to about 1.5/1.6 probably...07:28
slangasekogra_: yes, could be.  ubuntu-wallpapers hasn't changed since alpha-5, so it doesn't account for the size increase - but of course if we can slim it back down again, that would be welcome all the same07:29
ogra_TheMuso, do we still use .wav files ?07:29
TheMusoogra_: We do indeed, and thats all we can use, due to the audiofile library being used.07:29
ogra_slangasek, well, 3.5M is quite heavy for a wallpaper imho07:30
ogra_TheMuso, hrm ... we should really look into switching to ogg07:30
TheMusoogra_: files of many common formats (currently AIFF, AIFF-C, WAVE, NeXT/Sun, BICS, and raw data).07:30
ogra_to gain some compression07:30
TheMusoogra_: Willing to massively edit either the audiofile library, or GNOME code proper?07:30
ogra_TheMuso, lest talk about that after hardy is out :) i cant oredict my workload for interpid yet since so much changed in edubuntu land07:31
TheMusoogra_: Something like that needs doing upstrea.07:31
asacTheMuso: how do i test the scim thing?07:31
TheMusoogra_: I'm just saying its a lot of work.07:31
ogra_right, i'm aware :)07:32
TheMusoasac: I can't remember without looking it up./07:32
slangasekrather unfortunate that GNOME has this lovely gstreamer framework, but system sounds can only be .wav files :-P07:32
ogra_asac, open the scim gui, select de nodeadkeys, re-login is what i did07:32
TheMusoslangasek: Indeed.07:32
TheMusoslangasek: But it is an option, and I can do it if 1.3 or so MB is that critical.07:32
ogra_slangasek, there was a patch floating around that made the systeem sounds use gstreamer as well i think it was abandoned :(07:33
slangasekTheMuso: let me see what happens after the latest round of liveCD builds, and after I try to fix python2.5+db4.6 so we can kick db4.2 back off, and I'll see where we are; making changes to the fundamentals of GNOME sound handling is not a useful fix for alpha-6, and I'd rather not have to short us on sound quality either07:34
* cjwatson trims 50KB off the CD boot menu; every little helps07:35
TheMusoslangasek: Ok fair enough.07:35
* TheMuso should really do a new scheme one day...07:35
slangasekone place where I know we ought to be trimming for sure is the fact that we now have two distinct gtk2 engines being pulled in by human-theme on the Ubuntu CD07:36
slangasekbut I'm not sure which one needs to be gotten rid of yet07:36
cjwatsonslangasek: Ken didn't reply last night, I take it?07:37
Amaranthslangasek: Wasn't clearlooks already on the CD?07:37
ogra__it should be dropped if that is the case07:37
ogra__we default to murrine now07:38
slangasekcjwatson: nope, hoping he's a fairly early riser :)07:38
slangasekAmaranth: this is gtk2-engines-murrine vs. gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks07:38
Amaranthslangasek: oh, in that case i thought ubuntulooks was being dropped07:38
slangasekogra__: so -ubuntulooks isn't used and can be dropped without ill effect?07:38
Amaranththat was the point of redoing the themes using clearlooks and murrine07:38
slangasekAmaranth: makes sense, I just have no clue whether we're at the point where -ubuntulooks is ready to be dropped, do you?07:39
cjwatson-ubuntulooks is only 40KB though?07:39
ogra__slangasek, well, my installs all use murrine by default here, not sure kwwii wants to ship a fallback with Human, that would require clearlooks indeed07:39
cjwatsonpulls in a bunch of libraries, but I assume most of those are used by something else07:39
Amaranthslangasek: Well, I'd say no, the other two themes...need some work07:39
slangasekcjwatson: ah, argh07:39
slangasekcjwatson: alright, moving that to the "every little bit counts" pile07:40
slangasekcjwatson: yes, all the libs it pulls in are already there07:40
slangasekAmaranth: umm... are they "not happening for hardy" need some work, or "needs to get done by hardy" need some work?07:41
AmaranthI suspect the latter07:41
AmaranthProbably just need someone to spend a day with them polishing07:41
slangasekwhichever side they fall on, we should cut the other end off as long as it still leaves us with a functional desktop :-)07:41
=== doko_ is now known as doko
Amaranththey work fine, they just need some tweaking (tooltips aren't themed properly, etc)07:42
ogra__hmm, using pngcrush on the wallpaper actually gains zero ... thats really strange07:42
Amaranthogra__: someone crushed it already?07:43
ogra__Amaranth, but its stil 3.5M07:43
Amaranthwell, pngcrush just removes metadata07:44
ogra__it makes my classmate desktop unresponsive while it loads07:44
Amaranthit doesn't compress the image more or anything07:44
ogra__oh, i thought it does07:44
Amaranthoh, i guess it does07:45
Amaranthi was thinking of another tool07:45
Amaranthslangasek: drop gthumb ;)07:45
slangasekAmaranth: in favor of?07:46
ogra__slangasek, amd64 alternate is fine ... lets just resort to that one :P07:46
Amaranthslangasek: well, we have fspot already07:46
ogra__slangasek, we have f-spot in the default install07:46
Amaranthbut this debate has gone on for like 3 releases now07:46
superm1slangasek, unfortunately it still used the wrong packages for this build.  guess we'll have to wait until tomorrow for more luck :(07:47
ogra__but people will complain if you drom gthumb07:47
pittididn't we already drop gthumb?07:47
cjwatsoncan we not have the applications debate *again*07:47
pittiyes, we did; it even wants to go to universe, needs seeding07:47
slangasekpitti: yes07:47
Amaranthoh, yay07:47
Amaranthbut oh, still need rom07:47
* Amaranth uninstalls gthumb07:48
slangaseksuperm1: mmm, odd07:48
* pitti wonders what used up some 80 MB since alpha-407:48
Amaranthyeah, i thought alpha 4 was way under the limit07:49
Amaranthi can't think of anything that got added though07:49
pittisome 650 MB including some langpacks, yes07:49
slangasekthe manifest diff between alpha-5 and alpha-6 is short enough, but looking through for which packages have grown would take some doing07:49
Amaranthare those langpacks still on the disc?07:50
pittislangasek: for the alternates we could flip some large packages to lzma07:50
slangasekand none of the alpha-4 metadata is still around, sigh07:50
Amaranthmaybe just drop them again for now?07:50
pittiAmaranth: we did07:50
Amaranthoh, i missed that bit07:50
pittiAmaranth: that's where the other ~ 30 MB from my estimation (80 MB) come from07:50
Amaranthstupid splits :P07:50
slangasekpitti: alternates don't concern me nearly as much; as soon as OOo-l10n lands, I understand we'll already have more space there07:51
pittiah, right, lzma FTW07:51
ogra__is there a howto anywhere for switching packages to lzma ?07:51
* ogra__ would like to see how gcompris would behave with that07:52
cjwatsonit ought to be possible to take the manifest diff and feed it to something that downloads all the old packages from the librarian and compares sizes07:52
cjwatsonmight want to do that inside the DC, of course07:52
slangasekogra__: dh_builddeb -- -Zlzma; but calc already did the archive analysis on which packages benefit most, I think07:52
ogra__slangasek, ah, thanks07:53
cjwatsonogra__: dh_builddeb -- -Zlzma, pre-depends: dpkg (>= 1.14.12ubuntu3)07:53
ogra__well, gcompris is 60M source :)07:53
ogra__it should gain *something*07:53
slangasekogra__: there's a space/performance trade-off with lzma; the focus is (and IMHO should be) on deploying it first in the packages with the largest footprint07:54
ogra__gcompris is my largest package in edu land ...07:54
slangasekbloody hell, I was looking at the ship seed before, not the live CD; live still has a number of langpacks that can be unseeded if necessary :/07:55
ogra__the binaries take about 80M or so ... i dont have space constraints on the addon CD atm though07:55
cjwatsonslangasek: it may be that calc only looked at the Ubuntu CDs07:55
slangasekcjwatson: oh, possible, yes07:56
fabbioneSpads, Ng: ping?07:58
fabbioneoh wrong channel07:58
=== ogra__ is now known as ogra
tjaaltonwhere's openoffice.org-common for 2.4.0rc2?08:22
tjaaltonslangasek: mind if I upload oo.org-voikko for a rebuild?08:24
slangasektjaalton: go ahead, please08:25
tjaaltonslangasek: thanks08:25
slangasekopenoffice.org-common> what do you mean? I see it in the archive where it should be?08:25
tjaaltonslangasek: ok, maybe archive problems again? it's not on a.u.c08:25
slangasekyes, superm1 was mentioning mythtv wasn't making it to a.u.c either08:26
pittiOO.o not installable on amd64 for me either08:26
tjaaltonslangasek: hmm, there's also voikko 2.2-1 in unstable, which seems to add some additional support for OO.o 2.4. maybe sync that?08:32
tjaaltonnot too many changes08:32
slangasekare you asking me to sync it, or are you asking my opinion on whether a sync is appropriate?: )08:32
tjaaltonwell, both :)08:32
tjaaltonslangasek: I'll try a pbuilder run first08:34
=== seb128_ is now known as seb128
slangasek"Sorry, Gestor de actualizaciones closed unexpectedly"08:36
* slangasek twitch08:36
cjwatsonslangasek: BTW, while live filesystems do build straight from drescher, the archive mirror on antimony comes from syncproxy08:36
cjwatsonslangasek: and it looks like that's out of date08:36
tjaalton"Cannot install 'openoffice.org-dev'E: pbuilder-satisfydepends failed."08:37
tjaaltonso much for trying pbuilder08:37
cjwatsonI was expecting partman-ext3 49ubuntu2 to be there, which is timestamped 22:05 last night on drescher, but it isn't08:37
cjwatsonslangasek: have you poked IS about it yet?08:38
slangasekcjwatson: ah, I hadn't poked, no08:38
seb128pitti, slangasek: any opinion if we should switch evolution-data-server to use gnome-keyring in hardy? Currently passwords are stored in the user directory, keyring would be better but there is no migration which means users would have to re-enter their password on upgrade08:38
=== harrison1 is now known as harrisony
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
stgraberRiddell: around ?08:52
pittiseb128: I'm all for consolidating to gnome-keyring08:53
pittiseb128: it's much easier to do backups, put keys on USB stick, etc.08:54
seb128pitti: do you think having to re-enter the passwords is an issue we need to fix though?08:54
pittiseb128: hm, wrt. bug 196962, do you remember the decision about rb vs. sj for audio CDs?08:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196962 in gnome-volume-manager "Audio CD launches both Rhythmbox and Sound Juicer" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19696208:54
seb128pitti: launch rhythmbox08:54
pittiseb128: if we could fix that, the evo keyring would be badly protected :)08:54
pittiseb128: but it's just entering your password once for the hardy upgrade, right? that seems bearable to me08:55
pittiseb128: rb> ok, fixing in gvm then08:55
seb128pitti: well, evolution passwords are not protected right now, evolution could read those and store them in the keyring if they are not there08:55
seb128pitti: yes08:55
pittioh, one more reason to do that switch08:55
pittiseb128: so, IMHO it's  worth an upstream bug report to do that transition, but if it won't happen, I don't think that it bites too much08:56
seb128pitti: I though we stopped using gvm for mounting?08:56
pittiseb128: I'd like to see the evo keyring cleaned on upgrade, though08:56
seb128pitti: I talked to upstream about it, they will likely do something but maybe not before hardy08:56
seb128pitti: right08:56
pittiseb128: gvm> it still handles scanners, printers, and the like08:56
pittiand cameras08:57
seb128pitti: right, but audio CD should be nautilus08:57
pittiI agree08:57
pittijust wanted to confirm with you08:57
* pitti hugs seb12808:57
* seb128 hugs pitti08:57
=== asac_ is now known as asac
pittiseb128: btw, we already have the first complaints about that :)08:57
slangasekseb128: I'm never happy when users (particularly those named Steve) have to reenter information after upgrades.  Is gnome-keyring already supported by e-d-s upstream as an option, and is there any prospect of migration support in the future?08:57
seb128pitti: I'm not sure what you are fixing in gvm for rb then?08:57
seb128pitti: about what?08:58
pittiseb128: complaint> bug 19850508:58
ubotuLaunchpad bug 198505 in gnome-volume-manager "gnome-volume-manager does not mount devices any more in hardy" [Undecided,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19850508:58
pittiseb128: apparently gvm still launches sj08:58
pittiso I'll make it not do that08:58
=== soren_ is now known as soren
seb128slangasek: what I wrote to pitti before, keyring is supported and other distros use it now, there is no migration code but upstream agree that would be nice to do, somebody needs to write this code though08:59
slangasekmm right09:00
slangasekwell, I take the view that if it wasn't hurting users before now to have the passwords outside of gnome-keyring, leaving them there until a migration path is available is not a big deal and I'd rather have the user experience right09:02
seb128I tend to agree with that09:03
slangasekwhat's the likelihood the upstream bits would be ready in time for the hardy point release?09:03
seb128I would like to use the keyring though, I'll try to get somebody upstream helping getting that migration code before hardy beta09:03
seb128are daily cd images mirrored? cdimage.ubuntu.com is slow today09:17
slangasekthere are no mirrors of dailies, no09:17
seb128ok, thanks09:17
seb128slangasek: and for milestones?09:17
slangasekalphas, also no09:18
cjwatsonI have a really impressive metacity bug here; the window switcher (i.e. the pop-up when you use C-A-<cursor> to move between workspaces) has got stuck on, and won't (a) go away or (b) let me move out of the first row of workspaces09:21
cjwatsonI'm going to have to kill my X session once various stuff has finished running, but is there anything I can do in the meantime to diagnose this?09:21
cjwatsonit started while some pretty heavy disk I/O was going on09:22
seb128are other window manager things, moving, switching between tasks, etc still working?09:22
seb128cjwatson: why do you need to restart the session? restarting the wm should be enough no?09:23
cjwatsonI can move between workspaces, but not Alt-Tab, and the window switcher has keyboard focus so I can't do anything useful09:23
cjwatsonrestarting the window manager would probably be enough, true09:24
seb128no idea on what debug information would be useful09:24
seb128it doesn't seem to be stucked so a backtrace would likely be of no use09:24
seb128the most useful information would be a way to trigger the bug09:25
seb128I would say you can just restart it09:25
cjwatsonyeah, I've never seen it before - if I see it again I'll try to find common features09:26
ogra_cmpccjwatson, i had some similar things with my alt key the last days ... not actually metacity i guess but similar09:26
huatsmoring seb12809:26
ogra_cmpclike if i click on a window i can only move it (like with a stuck altkey)09:26
seb128hi huats09:27
seb128ogra_cmpc: there is a linux or xorg bug about key events being continuously generated sometimes09:27
cjwatsonogra_cmpc: I don't think it's that; setxkbmap normally clears that kind of thing for me and doesn't help in this case09:27
ogra_cmpcit didnt for me09:28
ogra_cmpcand given that it happened on the classmate it verz likely happened under heavy disk IO09:28
cjwatsonstracing metacity from a console says it's very busy, constantly reading/writing09:28
cjwatsonit could well be a stuck key event09:28
ogra_cmpcthats what i mean09:29
seb128cjwatson: xev?09:29
ogra_cmpci had that happening before always related to the alt key09:29
cjwatsonseb128: how do I get metacity's windowid from a console?09:29
cjwatsonah, xwininfo09:30
seb128I was going to suggest xprop but that should do it too09:30
cjwatsonhm, xev isn't saying anything09:30
Amaranthcjwatson: there are some bugs reported against xorg about keys getting stuck09:31
Amaranthmostly page down and such but i suppose alt could get stuck too09:31
Amaranthbug 19421409:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19421409:32
FujitsuI often get Tab, and something that doesn't seem to be real, stuck.09:32
ogra_cmpci've had that in feisty and gutsy happening as well at least once every release cycle09:32
FujitsuAmaranth: There's another very similar to that.09:32
ogra_cmpcand it always seemed related to IO09:32
Amaranthogra_cmpc: i believe the original reporter was scrolling in firefox when it happened, dunno if that'd hit the disk or not09:33
Amaranthcertainly spikes your CPU09:33
FujitsuThat fits with my tab key getting stuck, it was during 100% load.09:33
ogra_cmpci only have it happening on special key combos (alt+tab etc) and if there is actually lots of disk IO09:33
Fujitsu(CPU load)09:34
ogra_cmpchavent seen it in normal browser operation or so09:34
RAOFogra_cmpc: I'm not sure that it's related to CPU load; it also seems to correlate with mouse activity.09:35
ogra_cmpcmight be09:35
ogra_cmpcit usually went away with the next kernel upgrade for me ...09:35
FujitsuRAOF: Not for me.09:35
cjwatsondisk I/O> I was doing 'dd if=/dev/zero of=alt.img bs=1024 count=$((3*1024*1024))' and simultaneously rsyncing a CD image09:35
cjwatsonprobably not massive CPU load involved09:35
ogra_cmpcthe prob its that it occurs so randomly that you cant even reliably reproduce it09:36
RAOFogra_cmpc: *I* can.  It's nice and easy to reproduce.09:37
RAOFHold down a key, scroll madly in firefox.09:37
RAOFTada!  Key is stuck down.09:37
pwnguinive been having problems where enter gets stuck for a moment09:37
cjwatsonpwnguin: yes, also that09:37
pwnguinesp if i run something like apt-get upgrade09:37
RAOFAlso works in WoW, but you don't need to scroll madly.09:37
cjwatsoniwj conjectured that it might have something to do with the fact that my CPU is hyperthreaded09:38
cjwatsonor at least might be easier to reproduce given that09:38
pwnguinmine's dual core09:38
pwnguinall mine are09:38
ogra_cmpcwell, mine isnt,  neither here on the classmate nor on the laptop where i saw the issue in other releases09:38
RAOF*Definitely* not firefox related.  Hold down 'a', scroll madly in gedit.  'a' is no stuck down.09:39
RAOFAlso probably not CPU load related, my laptop's not doing _too_ much.  One core is ~50%, the other is idle.09:39
ogra_cmpcwhats the load average at ?09:40
dbmoodbhi is there a social contract for ubuntu like debians ?09:41
cjwatsonbug 124406 has a massive pile of key repeat reports09:41
ogra_cmpcdbmoodb, search for "code of conduct"09:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 124406 in ubuntu "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy) (dup-of: 194214)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12440609:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19421409:41
dbmoodbbut that is not a contract is it ?09:41
pwnguindbmoodb: there's a code of conduct, and a set of core beliefs, but not i dont think theres anything quite like debian's dfsg09:41
RAOF1.63.  Hm, tracker must be indexing.09:41
ogra_cmpcubuntu members have to sign it09:41
cjwatsonogra_cmpc: it's not the same thing09:41
ogra_cmpcright, but similar09:42
dbmoodb--- not dfsg -- social contract - 'debian will remain free' kind of thing09:42
pwnguinthere's the Ubuntu Promise09:42
dbmoodbis there a contract09:42
dbmoodba legally binding document09:42
pwnguindfsg is part of the social contract of debian09:42
pwnguinit defines what Free means09:42
cjwatsonthe Debian Social Contract is NOT legally binding09:42
dbmoodbit is09:42
cjwatsonthere is no consideration involved and therefore it cannot be09:42
pwnguinits more like a constitution09:43
cjwatsonin order for a contract to be binding it must involve consideration in both directions09:43
slangasekdbmoodb: no, it is not09:43
cjwatsondbmoodb: there isn't a single document that's like the Debian Social Contract, but there are a number of things that address different bits of it; the licensing policy, the code of conduct, the Ubuntu Promise09:43
dbmoodbit does09:43
cjwatsondbmoodb: slangasek and I are both Debian developers09:44
dbmoodbok so is ubuntu promised to remain "free"09:44
cjwatsondbmoodb: yes, it's right there on www.ubuntu.com09:44
cjwatsonfront page09:44
pwnguinif you're looking for guiding philosophies09:44
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
dbmoodb the promise ?09:44
cjwatson"Ubuntu will always remain free of charge" and "Ubuntu CDs contain only free software applications"09:44
cjwatsonand, as pwnguin says, the philosophy link for more detail09:45
ogra_cmpcheh, googling ubuntu promise brings up an intresting pile of scsi howtos :)09:45
dbmoodbok ... so how is it different to the dfsg ?09:45
cjwatsonwe are not going to compromise Ubuntu's freedom as stated on the philosophy and licensing pages09:45
cjwatsonthe differences between Ubuntu's licensing policy and the DFSG are quite small; in essence they amount to more liberal treatment of non-code works09:46
pwnguinwell number one, developers can't vote to change the policy as far as i can tell09:47
cjwatsonsee "Documentation, Firmware, and Drivers" on the licensing page09:47
cjwatsonother than that, the Ubuntu licensing policy is largely just a rephrasing of the DFSG09:47
cjwatsonand that should be pretty obvious from reading them side-by-side09:48
dbmoodb- yes i  got that that is why i was wondering09:49
dbmoodbif there was a social contract ")09:49
pwnguinits probably better off without one09:50
pwnguinlest an argument break out whether "a comma is a typo widely held belief"09:51
\shguys I'm really lost...and at the end of my knowledge somehow09:59
\shBuilding wine in pbuilder and on a clean chroot (which is used for sbuild, too) wine works like a charm...10:02
seb128carlos, pitti: any language pack update planned then?10:02
seb128carlos, pitti: would be nice to have a reflect of the GNOME current translations on current dailies10:03
pittican do, but it'll block the buildds quite a bit10:03
pittislangasek: ^ ok?10:03
\shbuilding wine as package, the binaries in the package are borked...and I don't see anything in my buildlogs what triggers it...(this is the cause why wine is not running in the moment...building it on our buildds or in any plain sbuild chroot bring us broken binaries)10:03
slangasekpitti: are the packages going to get bigger? :/10:03
pittislangasek: smaller, since it's a -base refreshment10:03
seb128carlos: btw did you get the list of packages not building a template?10:03
slangasekok, go ahead please10:04
carlosseb128: still working on that..10:05
pittioh, argh10:05
pittino, nevermind; unargh10:05
seb128carlos: any estimation on how long it'll take? I would like to start fixing those issues, just to know if I should wait or try building a list by some other way10:06
* seb128 hugs pitti10:06
pitticarlos: btw, we got new KDE l10n packages yesterday, so I guess next week we should do another -base refreshment?10:07
cjwatsonholy crap, I didn't expect to get that partman-auto change right first time10:09
sorencjwatson: Which one is that?10:12
cjwatsonthe first part of fixing bug 13495010:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134950 in partman-auto "auto-resize primary partition constraints are too strong" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13495010:13
Riddellpitti: those are kde 4, they're not in rosetta10:18
=== warp10 is now known as warp69
pittiRiddell: ok, not necessary then10:22
looldoko: Around?10:22
dokolool: yes10:23
looldoko: Someone uploaded a new python-twill a while ago which depends on python-mechanize (>= 0.1.7b-2)10:23
dokoand that one doesn't exist, correct?10:23
looldoko: Do you think it would be possible to solve this by updating python-mechanize?10:23
looldoko: It does, but is too old10:23
loolI mailed the uploader some 10 days ago to no luck10:23
loolMichele Angrisano10:24
dokoI would have to look, maybe email jinti (Brian Sutherland) if that version is ok for other packages (schooltool, zope)?10:24
loolslangasek: (Is it ok to push this to solve an uninstallability issue?)10:24
looldoko: Could you do it?  I don't know this guy and haven't played with zope things for a while10:25
slangaseklool: "this one" being python-twill?10:25
loolslangasek: Yes10:25
slangaseklool: it's in universe so not subject to alpha freeze, and it's a bugfix so not subject to feature freeze10:25
looldoko: python-twill is a dep of elisa, the media center10:25
loolAh right, for some reason I thought it was in main10:26
loolslangasek: Thanks10:26
looldoko: But if you're busy, I'll do it naturally10:29
* ogra_cmpc mumbles about -o ControlPath= not working in sftp10:45
sorenpitti: In https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dnsmasq/+bug/190905/comments/3 you ask me to LSBify the dnsmasq init script.. I'm curious what that means? There's already the Provides:, Required-start:, etc. headers at the top. What else does LSBification entail?10:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 190905 in dnsmasq "Main inclusion report." [High,Incomplete]10:52
tjaaltonslangasek: oo.o-voikko 2.2-1 build fine on a current pbuilder and works too10:52
pittisoren: using log_daemon_msg, log_end_msg, etc. instead of echo10:52
sorenpitti: Ah, of course.10:53
sorenpitti: Got it.10:53
pittiso that usplash, logging, etc. works10:53
sorenRight, right. Got it :)10:53
seb128mvo, slangasek: hum, usershare is not working correctly, smbclient gets a NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED when trying to browse the share in anonymous or NT_STATUS_LOGON_FAILURE when using my login and the samba log has a stat permission error10:54
slangasekseb128: hrm, strange :/10:55
slangasekseb128: oh, do you have smbpasswd set up?  There's no PAM integration there yet10:57
slangasek(was jdstrand taking care of that with auth-client-config??)10:58
pwnguinwell that was cute10:59
pwnguini was playing a game and w decided to stick on10:59
seb128slangasek: no, I though that one thing netshare was going to bring us what to avoid the need to use smbpasswd10:59
slangasekseb128: er, no10:59
seb128slangasek: I'm using "guest_ok=y" in this share11:00
slangaseknet usershare gets you easy setup of fileshares11:00
seb128shouldn't anonymous work?11:00
slangasekbut modern Windows clients will *not* negotiate authentication with servers that require cleartext passwords11:00
slangasekone would think anonymous would work then, yes; let me see11:00
sorenUsing log_*_msg, what's the canonical why to give additional info about why a daemon is failing to start?11:00
slangasek$ smbclient //localhost/moo -N11:01
slangasekAnonymous login successful11:01
slangasekDomain=[MSHOME] OS=[Unix] Server=[Samba 3.0.28]11:01
slangasektree connect failed: NT_STATUS_ACCESS_DENIED11:01
seb128slangasek: that's what I get too11:01
sorenlog_warning_msg perhaps?11:02
seb128slangasek: the /var/log/samba has a stat permission error on the corresponding usershares configuration11:02
* ogra_cmpc doesnt get why ssh -S /tmp/ssh_socket <ip> works, but sshfs -o ControlPath=/tmp/ssh_socket <IP>:<dir> ./mnt/ doesnt ... :(11:02
slangasekseb128: yes; so either there's an upstream samba bug, or there's a bug in how we've set up the /var/lib/samba/usershares dir in the samba package11:02
seb128slangasek: ok, I'll open a bug then, thanks11:03
sorenogra_cmpc: Maybe sshfs only passes a certain set of options on to ssh.11:04
sorenogra_cmpc: You could make an alias in $HOME/.ssh/config with the proper configuration?11:04
ogra_cmpcsoren, well, according to a lot of docs out there it should respect ControlPath from the confiog file11:04
sorenogra_cmpc: Yes, but you're not setting it from the config file, are you?11:05
ogra_cmpcbut i want the socket to be created dynamically and want to be able to connect to it on the fly11:05
ogra_cmpcmy original connection is manually with -M and -S11:05
sorenogra_cmpc: I found the bug :)11:06
ogra_cmpcthere is a bug ?11:06
* ogra_cmpc thought he only uses it wrongly11:07
sorensshfs-fuse-1.7/sshfs.c has a ssh_opts array.11:07
sorenIt doesn't mention ControlPath.11:07
sorenNo, forget that "er..".11:07
sorenIt's accurate.11:07
sorenYou just want to add that options and rebuild. Ok, go.11:08
ogra_cmpcweird, it seems to have nearly every other possible option11:08
sorenI suppose it's a symptom of something when you've gotten to the point where you tend to just skip by the documentation and read the code. :/11:09
sorenNot sure exactly of what it's a symptom.. I hope it's good!11:09
ogra_cmpcsoren, thanks i owe you a beer, i wouldnt have thought of looking at a parser inside sshfs11:09
ogra_cmpc(i wouldnt even expected such a thing exists, ssh should cover security here anyway)11:10
sorenogra_cmpc: Well, it needs to divide the stuff it gets passed as -o options into a few groups.. Stuff that is for sshfs itself, stuff that's for mount, stuff that's for fuse, stuff that's for ssh, and everything else. I suppose it's debatable if the last to groups should be joined (and just expect that unknown options are for ssh). *shrug*11:20
ogra_cmpcwell, i'd just add an extra option for ssh specific stuff11:20
ogra_cmpcit currently uses -o for eveything11:21
sorenogra_cmpc: I'm not sure if you can.11:22
sorenogra_cmpc: Unless you circumvent fuse's option parser thingie.11:23
HobbseeFujitsu: btw, have you had the dodgy key events since the hal upgrade?11:27
ogra_cmpcsoren, hmm, recompileed works but i get no file listing in the mount ... seems they had reasons to disable it11:28
soren*shrug* :)11:30
tkamppeterhi pitti11:41
pittihi tkamppeter11:42
FujitsuHobbsee: Yes.11:43
HobbseeFujitsu: pity11:43
FujitsuThree times tonight, but not in a while before that.11:43
Hobbseecjwatson: what dbmoodb was attempting to ask (and apologies for sending him here), is how his broadcom card worked after no internet connection, on a clean install11:45
cjwatsona most circumlocutory way to ask that question11:46
cjwatsonand I don't know either since we don't ship Broadcom firmware11:47
Hobbseecjwatson: well, exactly.11:47
mjg59Wireless or wired?11:47
Hobbseewireless, i think.  he's not around to ask now11:48
mjg59Because Debian strip the firmware from the tg3 driver11:48
mjg59And we don't, because that would be ridiculous11:48
Hobbseehardly any wired ports at uni, so very likely wireless11:48
mjg59The only way it could is if he's talking about wired11:48
AmaranthSo he was asking about the dfsg because he thought we were doing something non-free?11:49
Hobbseei'll bug him tomorrow about it.  or, if it's like normal, he'll bug *me* about it again.11:49
HobbseeAmaranth: yeah, pretty much11:49
Amaranthmake sure he doesn't look in restricted then :P11:49
Hobbseewanted to see if ubuntu was actually free, and then never appeared to get to the second question11:49
Hobbseeyeah, well.  becaues making non-free hardware work at all is bad.11:50
pwnguinHobbsee: you could just point him to gnewsense / gobuntu11:50
Hobbseepwnguin: he's a debian user, so i don't know why he cares11:51
* Hobbsee would say more, but won't, due to the logged nature of the channel11:51
pwnguinso thats why he was confused about the legal nature of the social contract11:51
Hobbseei suspect so11:51
* Mithrand1r tickles Hobbsee.11:52
* Hobbsee tickles Mithrand1r with a pile of 1's11:52
cjwatsonthe reason people get confused about the legal nature of the social contract is because it is misnamed11:52
=== Mithrand1r is now known as Mithrandir
ogra_cmpcdo you have to sign it in the NM process ?11:52
mjg59You have to state you agree to abide by it11:52
* ogra_cmpc stil didnt invest time in that ...11:53
mjg59There's no formal signature11:53
ogra_cmpcwell, then "contract" is indeed a bit much for it ...11:53
cjwatsonogra_cmpc: that wouldn't make it binding anyway; the contract is between Debian and the free software community, and the free software community never does anything to it11:54
cjwatsonlegal contracts are two-way11:55
ogra_cmpceven though every DD is part of that community11:56
=== mrpouit is now known as mr_pouit
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
ogra_cmpcsigh ... jockey is so evil on the classmate12:31
ogra_cmpcif we really want to start doing stuff for the subnotebook market some day i guess we need to rework our "python for everything" directive12:35
mvoogra_cmpc: what is the issue? speed? memory?12:41
ogra_cmpcmvo, both12:41
ogra_cmpcthe first caused by the latter12:41
jdonghow much RAM does the Classmate have?12:42
ogra_cmpcjdong, 25612:42
\shwine will work again...when you reset LDFLAGS= and the bugreport was closed upstream as invalid...12:42
jdonghmm and it runs that badly?12:42
ogra_cmpci recently wrote a little screenswitcher app that enables panning by cqalling xranrd -s 800x600 or 800x480 ... a simple switcher12:43
ogra_cmpcimplemented in python with egg trayicon as a 10-15 line script that thing eats about 30M with all interpreter stuff loaded etc12:43
ogra_cmpcthe same thing in C takes 5M12:44
mjg59ogra_cmpc: Is that really 30MB per-application?12:44
mjg59Or 30MB mostly shared with the rest of the python stack?12:44
ogra_cmpcmjg59, does that matter if you only run that one app ?12:44
mjg59ogra_cmpc: Is it really the only python app you're running?12:45
ogra_cmpcthe thing is that with the printer applet, update-notifier and jockey running the desktop takes around 20min to start12:45
mjg59The printer applet is python12:45
ogra_cmpceliminating all the python applets makes it slightly usable12:45
mjg59Eh. If "slightly usable" is what you get without python, then we've already lost12:46
jdongthat's ridiculous... I've ran Ubuntu on 256MB RAM in VM's and it wasn't that bad12:46
mjg59jdong: UMA systems12:46
jdongmjg59: what's the difference? slower CPU right?12:46
ogra_cmpcmjg59, well, i suspect there will be more subnotebook HW like this one in the future12:46
mjg59So if 3D is enabled, you've already lost 20MB or so12:46
ogra_cmpcjdong, the classmate has no L2 chache12:46
mjg59jdong: RAM used for video12:46
ogra_cmpcso IO sucks by design already12:46
ogra_cmpcthen you have no swap (would kill the flash)12:47
jdongand why should such things be expected to run GNOME?12:47
mjg59jdong: It shouldn't12:47
ogra_cmpcso 256M are already extremely tight for a gnome desktop12:47
mjg59Given the current state of gnome, anyway12:47
ogra_cmpcmjg59, :p tell that to our CTO12:48
mjg59Resource usage needs to be improved everywhere, rather than just worrying about python12:48
mjg59ogra_cmpc: Eh. Ubuntu is only marginally usable on a 256MB machine.12:48
ogra_cmpci have order to use gnome here12:48
mvoogra_cmpc: update-notifier is C12:48
ogra_cmpcso i cut down what i can ... its actually usable but crippled indeed12:48
jdonghow the heck is that thing ever going to run a web browser?12:48
mjg59If you have no swap, it's not going to be usable12:48
ogra_cmpcjdong, starting slowly ... but with all caches disabled it workws fine once its up12:49
jdongogra_cmpc: have you blacklisted all the restricted modules yet?12:49
jdongogra_cmpc: the 3 nvidia ones will chew up 30MB RAM fast12:49
ogra_cmpcmjg59, i agree that we need a dedicated subnotebook desktop but thats not the problem i can attack atm :)12:50
mjg59Oh, yeah, if l-r-m is installed then you lose instantly12:50
jdongindeed :)12:50
mjg59jdong: It's not a matter of blacklisting - they won't be autoloaded. It's the fact that they get linked in a tmpfs.12:50
mjg59That's fine if you've got swap, failure if you haven't12:50
lagawhy are they linked in a tmpfs?12:50
ogra_cmpcjdong, ah, thanks i had that ripped out in my image build script originally, seems its back ...12:50
jdongmjg59: blacklisted modules don't get loaded into tmpfs for me12:50
jdonglrm                   505M  1.3M  504M   1% /lib/modules/2.6.22-14-generic/volatile12:51
jdongthat's just with the 3 nvidia's and ath_hal12:51
ogra_cmpcthanks for the pointer, now i know why tadays image is slower than last weeks :p12:51
jdongblacklisted, that is12:51
* mvo hands ogra_cmpc a new CAPSLOCK key12:51
jdongogra_cmpc: shift and caps lock too scrunched? ;-)12:51
ogra_cmpcyeah, they are close together12:51
hungerOOo depends on OOo-writer2latex. Could somebody please add the later to the archive?12:51
* jdong writes ogra_cmpc a python daemon to detect simultaneous shift/capslock presses, then sets it for bootup12:52
ogra_cmpci can usually cope with the keyboard if i dont switch all the time12:52
sladenthe lrm could be culled if the PCI IDs aren't there12:52
mjg59jdong: Uh. Do you mean disabled in /etc/default/linux-restricted-modules-common ?12:52
jdongmjg59: yes12:52
jdongmjg59: sorry if blacklisting's not the correct term for doing that :)12:52
mjg59jdong: Right. blacklisting generally refers to the udev blacklisting.12:52
jdongyeah, realized that in hindsight :)12:53
hungerjdong: Just use xmodmap to map capslock to something more useful;-)12:53
jdonghunger: I take it you're an emacs user. ;-)12:54
ogra_cmpchmm, unmounting lrm on the fly doesnt free any ram ... intresting ... df reported 38M usage12:54
hungerjdong: Nope, but I have a thinkpad (no win key).12:55
jdonghunger: ah12:55
hungerogra_cmpc: tmpfs tends to get pushed into swap really soon and usually stays there.12:56
mjg59hunger: There is no swap12:56
jdonghunger: no swap12:56
jdongthat's half the problem :)12:56
ogra_cmpchunger, no swap12:56
hungerOh, sorry.12:56
jdongLRM is less of a problem when there is swap12:56
ogra_cmpcwell, thats not really a problem if you dont hit the edge12:56
ogra_cmpcif i run my cusomized devel desktop with pcmanfm, cairo-dock, devilspie and metacity it never hits the edge actually12:57
* hunger got swap mostly because of lrm.12:57
jdongyou sure you can't swap out the GNOME with XFCE or something....12:58
cjwatsonwe already disable the nvidia modules (and others) on the live CD for exactly the memory reasons mentioned above12:58
jdongthe default GNOME desktop is quite RAM hungry12:58
ogra_cmpcjdong, not for this image12:58
jdongcjwatson: would it be out of the question to use lrm-video to decide whether or not the nvidia modules should be loaded?12:58
ogra_cmpci plan to start a subnotebook desktop project in intrepid ...12:58
jdongogra_cmpc: I have a feeling even non-subnotebook users would be interested in a lightweight too :). That'll really take off12:59
ogra_cmpcseems bryce already started working on a lighter and better to use inkscape ...12:59
cjwatsonjdong: not if somebody submits a patch for that to casper, no12:59
mjg59jdong: Though the situation is unlikely, it's valid to hotplug PCI cards12:59
cjwatsonjdong: though I doubt it would be useful; surely xorg autoconfiguration will never pick the restricted drivers13:00
jdongmjg59: hmm sounds like it's time for a less static structure to lrm in that case13:00
ogra_cmpcjdong, well i thought about dedicated software that runs at the cut down resolution etc13:00
jdongcjwatson: yeah on the livecd it'd be less than useful13:00
cjwatsonjdong: so lrm-video will never select any of those drivers during live CD boot13:00
cjwatsonjdong: exactly, that's why :)13:00
ogra_cmpcnot only performance but also UI improvements13:00
cjwatsonjdong: oh, do you mean using lrm-video to decide whether they should be loaded on other systems?13:00
jdongcjwatson: jockey would also need some sort of ability to load13:00
jdongcjwatson: yeah my initial thought was for already installed systems13:00
jdongcjwatson: ogra_cmpc isn't the first time I've helped someone dramatically improve RAM problems by disalbing LRM13:01
cjwatsonjdong: sounds reasonable, though I'm not volunteering :)13:01
mjg59jdong: If you've got swap, l-r-m isn't really a problem. If you don't have swap, you're already running outside the standard setup :)13:02
ogra_cmpcjdong, well, i know about the issue (i think i was the first one to discover it in dapper with ltsp back then) ... i just didnt bother to look if the removal part of my image builder worked right :)13:02
ogra_cmpcsince it worked last time (a week ago) and didnt install lrm first place13:02
jdongogra_cmpc: yes, I trust that you'd know about the issue, but average new Ubuntu user with lightweight PC probably has no idea13:02
ogra_cmpcjdong, well, its our job to fix it for them ;)13:03
ogra_cmpcwhat would really be helpful for the low spec devices would be a module profiling mechanism that generates proper module lists for initramfs ...13:04
ogra_cmpcthe onews we have atm are still loading a ton of extra stuff i actuall dont need13:05
ogra_cmpcif i only load the 10 modules i actually need for booting, the classmate boots in about 20% of the time it uses for probing the whole module list13:06
* ogra_cmpc reboots13:07
ogra_cmpchmm, intresting ... according to htop i didnt earn a byte with removing lrm ...13:13
ogra_cmpcbut the system feels ten times more responsive13:13
=== cody-somerville is now known as somerville32
mvoRiddell: do you happen to know if we have kde-guidance on the super-mirror as a svn import?13:23
Riddellmvo: I don't think we do13:25
mvoRiddell: do you know if someone is working on it to make it crash less with our current xorg.conf ?13:26
Riddellmvo: ScottK has patches13:26
mvoaha, nice13:26
Riddellmvo: he even uploaded to the archive I think but reverted because of freeze13:27
ScottKmvo and Riddell: But I don't know how much help it'll be with the no xorg problems13:27
ScottKYes I did (urgh).  Thanks for reminding me13:27
Riddellmvo: here https://edge.launchpad.net/~kitterman/+archive13:27
ScottKIf someone could suggest a strategy for dealing with the no Xorg, I can probably implement it.13:28
ScottKSo far I've just patched stuff that I can reproduce locally or that I can see in the code how to catch with no regression risk.13:29
ScottKmvo: Point me in the right direction and I'll give it a shot.13:30
mvoScottK: its a while since I touched it last. I was thinking of a) making it more robust b) making it return stuff like "unknown" or "auto-detect" when there is no section in the xorg.conf file so that the GUI can deal with it. but I'm currently looking at the bugreport first to see what the most common problems are13:32
ScottKmvo: OK.  My python is reasonably robust, but my xorg knowledge is very shallow, so I'll need some hand holding, but can get it done with some guidance (pun intended).13:34
mjg59bryce: Uh. Why did you remoe the entries for wacom tablets in the default xorg.conf? Now people need to edit text files to get their hardware to work.13:35
mvoScottK: heh :) I come back to you when I have a slightly better idea, ok? do you have commit access to the upstream repository? I imagine we will want to put the changes upstream too13:35
ScottKmvo: No.  I've no involvement with upstream.  I figured to get some things sorted and then send patches.13:36
* mvo nods13:36
ScottKmvo: One of the bugs I was looking at seems to have a guidance component and a maybe hal/policykit component.  It's Bug #183656.  Is that something you could take a look at?13:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 183656 in kde-guidance "Cancel button in kde-guidance-powermanager doesn't do anything" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18365613:42
RiddellScottK: that's not really ScottK's area13:43
RiddellScottK: that's not really mvo's area13:43
tjaaltonmjg59: that was done already in gutsy13:43
tjaaltonmjg59: there were some issues with it too13:43
ScottKRiddell: OK.  Thanks.  WHo should I talk to about that?13:43
Riddellooh tjaalton, X has started working again on my r40e!13:43
tjaaltonRiddell: what happened?-)13:44
mjg59tjaalton: Yeah, but the bug only mentions an issue with gok that's never debugged13:44
RiddellScottK: possibly see if Lure has some time?13:45
ScottKRiddell: Thanks.  Will do.13:45
ScottKGuidance shouldn't crash in any case (which I can fix), but that won't make it work.13:45
tjaaltonmjg59: also kde-apps bug about missing input devices, although that's mostly cosmetic13:45
mjg59tjaalton: Yeah, that's easily fixable13:46
tjaaltonmjg59: and tbh, by now we should've had input-hotplug with wacom support, but the world doesn't like us :P13:46
mjg59tjaalton: It's an unfortunate regression over pre-gutsy releases13:47
tjaaltonmjg59: it is.. but could it be done in jockey or similar?13:47
=== cjwatson_ is now known as cjwatson
mjg59tjaalton: Unf. Conceivably.13:49
mvoScottK: I'm mostly interessted in the guidance-backend issues currently because they make both the kde and gnome frontends crash (stuff like #173762)13:55
mvoscottK, Riddell: how should I feed patches for guidance, should we have a shared bzr packaging repository so that we can easily work on it together?13:56
* ogra_cmpc dances around mvo ...13:57
ogra_cmpci got g-a-i working on the classmate in a usable speed :)13:57
mvoogra_cmpc: woah! how did you manage that :P ?13:58
Riddellmvo: can do13:58
ogra_cmpcmoving /var off the unionfs ;)13:58
saisposoren: ping ?13:58
mvoRiddell: do you currently use bzr for packaging?13:59
lagaogra_cmpc: does unionfs make things slower?13:59
ogra_cmpclaga, well, at least it makes db access slow it seems13:59
lagaogra_cmpc: i wonder if aufs would be faster13:59
Riddellmvo: not for guidance, some kde packages are in ~kubuntu-members13:59
ogra_cmpcwhich means apt, dpkg, g-a-i get extremly slow13:59
lagagiven that it's in lum, maybe you could try it :)13:59
ogra_cmpclaga, in intrepid14:00
lagaogra_cmpc: heh14:00
ogra_cmpci dont have time to waste on the classmate atm14:00
ogra_cmpchmm, i somehow trashed gdebi-gtk14:01
ogra_cmpcFATAL -> Failed to fork.14:01
* ogra_cmpc wonders what it forks ... gdebi, synaptic, apt and dpkg work fine ...14:02
mvoogra_cmpc: might be a memory issue14:03
sorensaispo: Wazzup?14:03
ogra_cmpcmvo, hmm, all the others work14:03
saisposoren: an error on xen gutsy kernel when i create lvm volume, have you seen this ?14:04
saispo(2.6.22-14-xen) have you seen this ?14:05
sorensaispo: No, but I've not tried either, so that's hardly surprising :)14:05
saispoi create a lot of lvm volume with a python script and after some, the kernels oops14:05
sorensaispo: You could try over in #ubuntu-xen14:06
zulor you could try hardy14:06
saispook thanks14:06
saispozul: not possible14:06
saispobut thanks for your advice ;)14:07
ogra_cmpcmvo, it doesnt hit the edge, i just monitored it. it eats a *lot* of ram though14:07
mvoogra_cmpc: it is (or should be) mostly mmaped stuff from the apt cache14:10
ogra_cmpcmvo, gdebi in a terminal seems to eat the same amount of ram and works, so i rule out ram here14:10
_r1_Is it known that gutsy alternate install CD make a kernel MD5SUM mismatch during an install ?14:11
=== asac__ is now known as asac
_r1_(and I have a second issue few time after force this step...)14:12
jdongI've installed at least 5 gutsy systems from the alternate CD and none of them have any sort of mismatch14:15
jdongI suspect a bad download or burn14:15
_r1_I test 2 differents images (kubuntu/xubuntu) with exactly same error14:15
_r1_and It's my first gutsy error14:16
_r1_I'm now trying to install without any network connection14:17
=== ubotu is now known as ubotu`
=== ubotu` is now known as ubotu
=== kyle___ is now known as kylem
TomaszDhi, an easy fix if some has a moment https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+bug/19876114:47
ubotuLaunchpad bug 198761 in wine "Please include Polish translation for .desktop files (diffs included)" [Undecided,New]14:47
cjwatson_r1_: if you're seeing it with multiple images, then consider cleaning your CD drive; that's a common culprit14:51
cjwatson_r1_: drive cleaning kits are fairly cheap, and can save a lot of annoyance14:51
tjaaltonstill no new oo.o-l10n packages in the archive, needs a push?14:53
\shbryce: bug #183922 ... shouldn't the status  "Triaged" until someone can debug X and send us the report?14:53
ubotuLaunchpad bug 183922 in wine "Xorg crashes after using Microsoft Word 2003 in Wine." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18392214:53
_r1_cjwatson: It's appear it's actually a hardware problem you're right (iso and cd MD5 are both good)14:56
_r1_sorry for that...14:56
=== warp69 is now known as warp10
tjaaltonmjg59: care to reply to bug 155937, I've given up ;)15:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155937 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "SHMConfig should be enabled by default, and gsynaptics should be installed by default on laptops" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15593715:12
mjg59tjaalton: Not really. SHMConfig can't be enabled by default. Ever.15:15
tjaaltonmjg59: I already closed it once as won'tfix15:15
mjg59tjaalton: Most of the features of gsynaptics aren't supported by the interface I added.15:15
mjg59tjaalton: I can't comment myself (don't have a launchpad account)15:15
tjaaltonmjg59: oh15:16
TomaszDpitti, hi, I'm one of ubuntu-l10n-pl admins. I've heard there's a ppa for daily langpacks for hardy, could you share the url (in private, if need be)15:19
pittiTomaszD: sure, it's not secret at all, to the contrary15:25
ogra_cmpcmjg59, you removed your LP account ?15:25
pittiTomaszD: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-langpack/+archive15:25
TomaszDok, thanks, I was googling "pitti ppa"15:25
TomaszDpitti, no hardy?15:25
pittiTomaszD: no, we upload updates straight to hardy (automatically twice a week)15:26
\shTomaszD: thx for the translation :)15:26
TomaszDpitti, oh ok :]15:26
TomaszD\sh, no problem, btw could someone look here https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/paprefs/+bug/191854 ? :]15:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 191854 in paprefs "Please include Polish translation for paprefs (translation attached)" [Undecided,New]15:27
TomaszDit's a universe package, upstream vendor doesn't respond15:27
=== Zic_ is now known as Zic
\shTomaszD: taking care of it15:37
TomaszD\sh, awesome, thank you!15:37
jdongwhat's the commandline way of starting up the "partial upgrader" thing?15:40
\shTomaszD: done15:41
=== ajax_ is now known as ajax
TomaszD\sh, you rule!15:48
* TomaszD hugs \sh15:48
\shTomaszD: na you rule...thanks for making ubuntu rock even harder :)15:49
=== kylem__ is now known as kylem
=== asac_ is now known as asac
ScottKpitti: Thank you for your comments on my DM application.16:21
pittiScottK: my pleasure16:48
LaserJockyeah, ScottK seems to be getting all the love ;-)16:53
ScottKYou just got a nice reply.16:54
LaserJockoh heah, I did!16:54
* LaserJock hugs azeem 16:54
=== cody-somerville is now known as somerville32
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
keescookpitti: say, the virtual interface patch you applied from me -- I think it's causing a bigger headache than it solves.  can you pull it out after the alpha?17:12
pittikeescook: hi17:13
pittikeescook: hm, can do; can you reply to the upstream bug with improvements/ask to close the bug?17:13
keescookpitti: well, I think it _is_ correct -- the problem is that the client applications suddenly need additional logic and fixing all of those before release seems like a bad idea.17:14
keescookpitti: but I will comment on the bug about the behavior it creates17:14
pittikeescook: ah, ok17:14
pittikeescook: done in bzr head17:16
pittikeescook: I'm still waiting for slangasek's ack for uploading it17:16
keescookpitti: okay, thanks.17:17
=== haggai_ is now known as haggai
=== ogra_cmpc is now known as ogra
EtienneGwondering about something, guys18:37
EtienneGI set a default boot option on an ext3 volume using tune2fs (as in, tune2fs -o acl /dev/...)18:38
EtienneGyet, the boot option is not used when mounting the volume18:38
EtienneGso either the tune2fs man page is incorrect in stating that it should, or the feature have been deprecated, or I am missing something18:39
EtienneGanybody have a clue on the subject?18:39
EtienneGforget above question, it just needs a reboot, and the option will not show up in the output of mount18:45
wasabibryce: Yup. Latest upload fixed it.19:02
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
slangase`pitti: sorry, waiting for my ack before uploading which?19:08
=== slangase` is now known as slangasek
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== dAndy_ is now known as dAndy
Tonio_am I the only one having problem with his @ubuntu.com email redirection today ?19:36
Tonio_not any email arrives to my mailbox.... the mailbox itself works19:36
Tonio_I can see that the mail is correctly sent to mx.canonical.com19:46
Tonio_then nothing...19:46
Amaranththat'd be bad, all of my mailing list mail goes through my @ubuntu.com mail19:48
mario_limonciellwell "bad" is a misnomer.  It may grant you a forced break from this stuff :)19:54
=== kuechengarten is now known as thekorn
bryce\sh: no, I set to Incomplete for bugs where more info is needed from the reporter in order to troubleshoot it20:25
\shbryce: ok...I just wanted to make sure, that we don't forget about this bug20:26
bryce\sh: since it's a crash when running a commercial app (MS Word 2003), we need someone with that app to gather an error message, backtrace, or etc.  Just knowing it crashes isn't enough to go on in this case.20:26
brycemjg59: the wacom entries were causing breakage for certain accessibility applications; I removed them at heno's direction.20:28
\shbryce: agreed..good that I don't run commercial apps.20:28
bryceogra_: the inkscape-lite stuff I did was really just a demo to stimulate thinking in that direction, but it's inspired a few people to do a more "proper" implementation for inkscape 0.47 or later20:30
bryce\sh: yeah we do re-review incomplete bugs periodically and reprioritize as info becomes available20:32
slangasekstgraber: You are here : QA Tracker -> ^Ubuntu \w* \w*$20:33
slangasek? :)20:33
stgraberslangasek: argh ... :)20:41
stgraberslangasek: it's the result of using some more regexp, will ask for a code sync tomorrow :)20:42
slangasekok :)20:43
slangasekmr_pouit: well, the OOo size fixes have brought xubuntu alternate down to size on amd64, but i386 is still oversized: 729M    xubuntu/daily/20080305.1/hardy-alternate-i386.iso20:45
slangasekmr_pouit: do you want to look at this so we can include xubuntu alternates in alpha-6?20:46
stgraberslangasek: btw, the tracker was updated so you now have Kubuntu-KDE4, the right Edubuntu images, Wubi and a now completely working download info window (I have entirely rewritten my cdimage.u.c parser)20:48
slangasekstgraber: saw that, thanks20:48
slangasekwell, the image fix-ups; didn't notice the download info window changes :)20:49
ScottKslangasek: It looks like the fix for the postfix backport (depwait due to dep in Universe) fix only took on i386.  The other archs are still depwait ...20:49
slangasekScottK: how... odd20:50
lamontScottK: iirc, I gave back i38620:50
slangasekoh, there's your answer :)20:50
ScottKlamont: Would you please give back all the other archs and all archs on Edgy?20:50
slangasekfor edgy-backports, I hadn't moved the package to universe; that's a prereq, right?20:51
ScottKAh.  Yes20:51
ScottKSorry.  I thought you'd done them both.20:51
slangaseknah, the output after I did the dapper one scared me enough that I stopped there to see what happened after the next publishing run20:52
ScottKOK.  Well it seems to have worked out fine for Dapper i386.20:53
lamontContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-120:54
lamontDate: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 15:50:30 -050020:54
slangasekright, edgy done now as well; I suppose it probably needs to wait a cycle before give-backs will work20:54
lamontwhat is wrong with that picture...???20:54
ScottKslangasek: I think this is something that ought to be fixed as it's just going to get more painful.20:54
lamontslangasek: what we want is --pretend-avail launchpad-style20:54
ScottKSlight bit of message ID missing there.20:54
slangaseklamont: --pretend-avail wouldn't fix the chroot's sources.list, though?20:54
slangaseklamont: wrong with that picture> the legacy charset!!20:55
lamontbut the package build-depends: libcdb-dev | tinycdb20:55
lamontnull msgid == all of their mail is a duplicate20:55
slangaseklamont: and which of those is in dapper/main?20:55
lamontuh... the dapper/i386 build worked....20:55
slangaseklamont: yes, because I moved the dapper backport to universe20:56
slangasekso maybe I'm confused about what you're saying should be fixed20:56
lamontso that just leaves the issue that the dapper package is dep-wait on a package that won't exist until edgy-backport20:56
lamontthe dapper-backport is d-w the wrong package...  yeah ored deps20:56
slangaseksurely the d-w was only set because *neither* package was available the first time it tried to build?20:57
slangasekso if it were given back now it should pick up tinycdb ok?20:57
ScottKThat's what the i386 one appears to have done.20:57
lamontthe d-w got set on the first package, since neither was available.20:58
lamontand the first package is the "right one for sid" :-)20:59
ScottKAll I know is the 2.4.5 backport was painless.  I don't think anything has changed in the package to make it harder since then.21:00
lamontScottK: it was painless because I did it, maybe?21:03
* lamont goes looking21:03
lamont... libcdb-dev | tinycdb21:04
lamontamusingly true for 2.4.5-3build1~dapper1 as well21:05
ScottKWithout any data to prove it, I suspect it's easier because Launchapd has been 'improved' since.21:06
emgentgood night people21:06
ScottKOf course that theory aligns well with my internal biases, so I may well be full of it.21:07
mjg59bryce: I'd rather have worked out what was causing the issues21:18
slangasektjaalton: you milestoned bug #178292, is this something you're working on?21:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 178292 in mesa "3D-Accelerated Games cause X to crash with Intel Driver" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/17829221:22
tjaaltonslangasek: oh yeah, assigning to myself21:33
mdketkamppeter_: around?21:33
slangasektjaalton: but I'm not thinking that you're still aiming to get it fixed for alpha-6? :)21:56
tjaaltonslangasek: no, I noticed that you pushed it for beta, which is fine :)22:00
\shbah..why are the virtualbox kernel modules not upgraded by default ? (for use with latest kernel?)22:01
\shsomething for tomorrow...22:02
\shgood night folks22:02
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== toresbe_ is now known as toresbe____
=== toresbe____ is now known as toresbe
=== seb128__ is now known as seb128
Tonio_Amaranth: do you also have that mail redirection failure ?22:17
AmaranthTonio_: i don't think so22:17
AmaranthNo, I'm definitely getting emails from mailing lists still22:17
Tonio_Amaranth: any idea who to contact for this problem ?22:18
Tonio_Amaranth: the strange thing is that I deleted my standard email from launchpad and added it again, and received the launchpad email confrmation in my mailbox22:18
Tonio_but still no redirection...... that's crazy22:18
Tonio_another option is that my isp rejects redirected emails, which is another option....22:19
Tonio_hard to know what happens in fact......22:19
Amaranththe redirection is not automatic22:19
Tonio_Amaranth: you mean ?22:19
Amaranthalthough perhaps you've broken it22:19
Amaranthit doesn't get turned on automatically22:19
Tonio_Amaranth: didn't touch anithing for month22:19
Amaranthsomeone goes and does it22:19
Amaranthalthough i think it's a script22:20
Amaranthno clue then22:20
Tonio_Amaranth: so it was broken on the ubuntu side....22:20
Tonio_Amaranth: I'll try to ping a few people at canonical....22:20
=== milli_ is now known as milli
jdonginfinity: looks like backports is no longer ignoring the main-universe split like it's supposed to....23:43
ScottKSee recent postfix depwaits in Dapper/Edgy and the soyuz foo slangesek had to use use make it work for an example.23:43
jdongScottK: I poked infinity, who was the last person who helped way back then23:44
jdongScottK: if that doesnt' work then I guess soyuz bug?23:44
ScottKjdong: I'd suggest file it.  I've given up on filing LP bugs.23:44

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!