[06:57] <calc> hello
[06:57]  * ArneGoetje waves
[06:57]  * slangasek waves
[06:57]  * Hobbsee waves, and hands out obligatory coffee
[06:58] <Hobbsee> (the drips, not the cup variety)
[06:59] <cjwatson> morning
[06:59] <doko> good morning
[06:59] <cjwatson> I've just gone for the cup, I'm afraid
[06:59]  * slangasek percolates
[06:59]  * TheMuso waves.
[06:59]  * ogra fumbles for matches to keep eyes open ... to even find the coffee on the table
[06:59] <cjwatson> bryce was ill yesterday, which is still today for him, so I don't expect to see him
[06:59] <evand> hi
[06:59]  * TheMuso goes for the water, unless its very cold, then he goes for the cup.
[07:00] <cjwatson> so just waiting for asac
[07:02] <cjwatson> will wait one more minute
[07:02] <ogra> cjwatson, sorry, no report yet, i was smart enough to dd something to /dev/sda instead of /dev/sdd yesterday afternoon ... :( sda is a member of my raid1 while sdd is my usb stick ....
[07:02] <cjwatson> oops!
[07:02] <ogra> at least i had a week old backup about 4am i had it played back ....
[07:03]  * ogra votes for distinct names for usb sticks in the future
[07:03] <cjwatson> I found my fingers typing 'dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda' rather than 'dd if=/dev/zero of=alt.img' yesterday and was glad that (a) I didn't press Enter (b) I hadn't put sudo on the front
[07:03] <ogra> heh, i did both
[07:03] <cjwatson> ok, let's start, asac can catch up when he arrives
[07:03] <ogra> no big damage done though just took lots of time
[07:03] <cjwatson>  * Actions from last week
[07:03] <cjwatson>   * scim-bridge testing results?
[07:03] <calc> i've done rm -rf ~ (hit enter before completing the path), that was painful
[07:04] <cjwatson> that was asac and ogra IIRC
[07:04] <TheMuso> ogra: I *think* its called lack of sleep. :p
[07:04] <ogra> TheMuso, no, thats how i'm feeling right now after 3h of sleep this night :P
[07:04] <slangasek> ogra: clearly it should be corporate policy to not give Canonical employees root on their systems, to avoid such mishaps
[07:04] <ogra> lol
[07:05] <cjwatson> ogra: did you get a chance to test scim-bridge for dead-key support last week?
[07:06] <ArneGoetje> I didn't receive any feedback for dead-key support under scim-bridge... but some users' feedback in some LP bugs suggest that it works for them... so I decided to go for scim-bridge anyways.
[07:06] <ogra> i tried it once and didnt find any difference to the normal behavior ... but note that i still have an xorg.conf from the gutsy that was installed, not sure that has any influence
[07:07] <cjwatson> keyboard handling is one of the few things that has not changed much in xorg.conf
[07:07] <cjwatson> so that sounds ok
[07:07] <ogra> yeah, but i dont know if scim changed :)
[07:07] <ogra> so i mentioned it
[07:07] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: I mentioned something related in /msg, but I think you may have missed it
[07:08] <cjwatson> 08:49 <cjwatson> installing im-switch at the moment will cause scim to be started for everyone, AFAICS
[07:08] <cjwatson> 08:49 <cjwatson> even those not in a CJK locale
[07:08] <ArneGoetje> correct.
[07:08] <cjwatson> perhaps im-switch should put 'default' below 'none' for all_ALL?
[07:08] <cjwatson> it sounds like it won't break anything (from the testing above), but also seems inefficient?
[07:09] <cjwatson> (but if there's a good reason not to do that, I'll back down)
[07:09] <ArneGoetje> 'default' seems to disable scim, because the envirenment variables are empty in that configuration.
[07:10] <ogra> i wonder if scim by default couldnt solve our kbd issues with x
[07:10] <ogra> afaik thats one of the reasons we still keep an xorg.conf for
[07:10] <ArneGoetje> ogra: which kbd issues?
[07:10] <ogra> it seems to handle non CJK setups just fine
[07:10] <slangasek> (well, I know one problem it doesn't solve is oversized CDs... :)
[07:10] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: oh. I apologise, I was looking at my local configuration and assuming it's the default
[07:11] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: common mistake ;)
[07:11] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: in fact the im-switch setup is not as straight forward as it could be...
[07:11] <ogra> ArneGoetje, Xorg can wonderfully work without xorg.conf nowadays ... we keep a config file because we have no sane way of handling keymaps and mice yet
[07:11] <cjwatson> ogra: input hotplug needs some more work than that, I think
[07:12] <cjwatson> Timo tried the obvious hal approach and it broke for him
[07:12] <ogra> but scim seems o be there already
[07:12] <ogra> *to
[07:12] <ogra> (i dont talk about hardy :) )
[07:12] <cjwatson> scim doesn't do generalised keyboard layout handling, just specialised CJK-type things
[07:13] <cjwatson> ok, I'll add im-switch to desktop at the next opportunity on Arne's behalf, then; it's tiny
[07:13] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[07:13] <cjwatson>  * Alpha-6 status
[07:13] <ArneGoetje> question remains:
[07:13] <cjwatson> ... I gather size may be relevant here ...
[07:14] <ArneGoetje> should scim be enabled or disabled by default for all_ALL?
[07:14] <cjwatson> my vote is for disabled
[07:14] <ArneGoetje> currently it's enabled
[07:15] <ogra> can you select by locale ?
[07:15] <cjwatson> ArneGoetje: but as you said above all_ALL points to 'default' by default, which doesn't start scim
[07:15] <cjwatson> ogra: that is the default
[07:16]  * asac appears
[07:17] <ArneGoetje> cjwatson: I'll have to do some checks on im-switch... fact is that scim-bridge now has highest priority... where the actual link to enable scim is set, I'll need to find out.
[07:19] <cjwatson> slangasek: ^-- alpha-6 status?
[07:20] <ogra_> alternate looks good from what i tested (beyond being oversized)
[07:20] <calc> ooo has now built with lzma on all archs but powerpc (some weird buildd error there afaict)
[07:20] <slangasek> in terms of installability and bug count, we're looking pretty good for alpha-6; thanks to everyone for their diligence at squashing those milestoned bugs
[07:20] <ogra_> edubuntu-addon as well (works without net connection now, yay)
[07:20] <cjwatson> I was impressed with the alpha-6 bug list when I glanced at it yesterday
[07:20] <calc> ooo-l10n is currently building with lzma as well
[07:21] <slangasek> there are still a few bugs listed on https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/hardy-alpha-6 that could use some attention; most of the remaining bugs are not actually blockers for alpha-6 so I'll be moving them around later this evening, but everything there is at least high-priority for release
[07:22] <cjwatson> it's probably time to start gardening the targeted-to-hardy bug list too
[07:23] <slangasek> as ogra notes, there are some size issues currently with the images - we have about half a dozen packages newly seeded on the Ubuntu liveCD since alpha-5, for instance, and between that and the death-of-a-thousand-cuts growth of individual packages, we're hurting to get the images down to size
[07:23] <slangasek> because we've already pruned almost all of the language packs in earlier alphas, leaving us with almost nothing left to prune in that department right now(!)
[07:24] <slangasek> mvo has already helped out with this last night by shrinking one of the new packages for me, but if anyone can think of changes they've made since alpha-5 that are costing us space and that we might be able to squeeze more space out of, that would be helpful
[07:24] <slangasek> otherwise I'm going to see what I can do with the langpacks still
[07:24] <ogra_> slangasek, artwork ?
[07:24] <ogra_> my new wallpaper says its 3.5M big
[07:24] <TheMuso> Mousetweaks has been added, but I think its small. I shall investigate however...
[07:24] <slangasek> and yes, at this point the targeted-to-hardy bug list also includes a number of bugs we should be working on in parallel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+bugs
[07:25] <ogra_> (compared to 900k or so with the defaults we had before)
[07:26] <slangasek> ogra_: I don't mean to take up the meeting with brainstorming; I'm around for several hours after the meeting, we can take this up out-of-band
[07:26] <ogra_> indeed
[07:26] <slangasek> cjwatson: that's it for my report
[07:27] <cjwatson> sounds like today is going to be a weight-watchers day for Ubuntu
[07:27] <cjwatson> ok, thanks Steve
[07:27] <cjwatson> any other business?
[07:27] <TheMuso> I've had another idea that could give us 1.2MB of space back.
[07:27] <slangasek> (more like Slim-Fast, I think :)
[07:27]  * TheMuso will take to devel
[07:30] <slangasek> no other business for me
[07:32] <calc> sorry my router ate itself
[07:34] <calc> i can't see anything, is the meeting still going on?
[07:34] <evand> calc: yes, we're on AOB
[07:36] <cjwatson> we're on "Colin had thought it was done and wasn't paying attention" :-)
[07:36] <slangasek> heh :)
[07:36] <cjwatson> adjourned, thanks all
[07:36] <slangasek> thanks :)
[07:36] <evand> haha
[07:36] <evand> thanks
[07:36] <ArneGoetje> thanks
[07:37] <TheMuso> thanks folks.
[07:37] <calc> goodnight everyone
[07:37] <asac> thx
[11:12] <Ziroday> @schedule Singapore
[19:00] <nand> hi!
[19:00]  * ogasawara waves
[19:00] <heno> hey
[19:00]  * stgraber waves
[19:00] <Iulian> Hi
[19:01] <liw> yo
[19:01] <bdmurray> greetings
[19:03] <heno> ok, let's start
[19:03] <heno> #startmeeting
[19:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 19:03. The chair is heno.
[19:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:03] <heno> agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[19:04] <heno> First, welcome all :)
[19:04] <heno> [TOPIC] Kernel bug migration update (bug day tomorrow)
[19:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel bug migration update (bug day tomorrow)
[19:04] <davmor2> lo
[19:05] <ogasawara> I've been going through the High/Critical bugs for the older kernels
[19:05] <heno> I put that on the agenda so ogasawara would have a target for the high/critical migration
[19:05] <heno> :)
[19:05] <heno> how is it going?
[19:05] <ogasawara> I've got maybe 50 or so left to look at so I imagine I'll have it all wrapped up by end of the week
[19:05] <heno> cool!
[19:06] <heno> I see the plan is prepared for tomorrow
[19:06] <ogasawara> yup, so we should get extra help from the hug day tomorrow too
[19:07] <heno> ogasawara: anything else on that topic?
[19:07] <ogasawara> heno:  nope, I think we're good
[19:07] <heno> [TOPIC] Past week's bug day summary: g-s-t and HAL
[19:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Past week's bug day summary: g-s-t and HAL
[19:07] <heno> the g-s-t bug day ran out of bugs it looks like :)
[19:08] <heno> and I guess pitti has been running a 1-man HAL bug day today
[19:10] <heno> ok, next
[19:10] <heno> [TOPIC] Desktop testing KVM images - instructions for download and use - liw
[19:10] <MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop testing KVM images - instructions for download and use - liw
[19:11] <liw> I've made some packages of the automated desktop testing stuff, and a KVM/qemu image that can be used to run them
[19:11] <liw> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/KVM and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Automation/Desktop have some further details
[19:11] <liw> I'd be grateful if a couple of people could check that those things work for them
[19:12] <liw> there's only one set of tests right now, but now that all the packaging infrastructure is there, I can easily add more, and will be doing that in the near future
[19:12] <stgraber> I'm downloading at the moment
[19:12] <nand> liw: I'll test this WE
[19:12] <heno> liw: the pages look very good, thanks
[19:12]  * heno downloads as well
[19:13] <stgraber> people.u.c seems overloaded :) downloading at only 300k/s
[19:13] <heno> liw: how shall we report feedback? email, or will you set up bugtracking on LP?
[19:13] <davmor2> I'll have a look latter when all the images have re-downloaded again :)
[19:13] <liw> feedback to me via e-mail to start with
[19:13] <heno> ok
[19:14] <liw> lars@ubuntu.com that is
[19:14] <heno> [TOPIC] Alpha 6 ISO testing
[19:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 6 ISO testing
[19:15] <heno> davmor2, stgraber: anything scary so far?
[19:15] <stgraber> I haven't started testing yet
[19:15] <stgraber> we had a broken OOo
[19:15] <heno> yeah
[19:15] <stgraber> I have updated the tracker with a fixed download info box
[19:15] <heno> kde4 seems to work, which is cool
[19:15] <stgraber> and updated the testcases
[19:15] <stgraber> adding Kubuntu-KDE4, Wubi and modifying Edubuntu
[19:16] <heno> some of the testcases will need some updating too
[19:16] <davmor2> OO.o screwed up testing having to re-download now.  On the whole Kubuntu has been okay couple of minor things but that's it
[19:16] <bdmurray> did the wubi test cases get written?
[19:16] <heno> bdmurray: sort of
[19:16] <stgraber> bdmurray: yes by heno and xivulon
[19:16] <heno> there is room for improvement ...
[19:16] <stgraber> xivulon updated it a bit this morning IIRC
[19:17] <heno> davmor2 and i will look more at test cases on Saturday I guess
[19:17] <heno> (at the Oxford testing mini sprint)
[19:17] <davmor2> Indeed :)
[19:18] <bdmurray> One thing I was thinking about was the importance of capturing the right files when people are testing
[19:18] <heno> ooh, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/Wubi actually looks decent now!
[19:18] <heno> yay xivulon!
[19:18] <bdmurray> I mean getting the complete information right away
[19:20] <heno> bdmurray: a script that just vacuums up a bunch of could-be-useful log files perhaps?
[19:20] <heno> with dedicated test installs I don't think we have to worry too much about privacy
[19:21] <bdmurray> heno: maybe, I don't have an answer was just thinking about.  do we have documentation about how to get files off a live cd?
[19:21] <heno> so we could put 'wget script; script' on a wiki page and ask people to use that
[19:21] <heno> just for ubiquity AFAIK
[19:22] <heno> you mean in case of missing network and so on?
[19:22] <stgraber> we can use pastebin and my pastebinit package if the files aren't too long (as pastebins are usually limited)
[19:23] <heno> or tgz and attach it to a wiki page
[19:23] <bdmurray> heno: right, the process of getting the files off.  its easy if you are at the desktop but the other ways might not be well documented
[19:23] <heno> indeed, I don't think they are
[19:23] <heno> lots of info in individual bug comments
[19:24] <heno> getting files from busybox, photographing the screen, etc
[19:24] <bdmurray> right, that's what I was thinking of
[19:25] <heno> ok, let's add some info here as we think of different techniques https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/CollectingLogs
[19:26] <heno> so ISO testing for a6 continues ...
[19:26] <heno> [TOPIC] Brainstorm status - fixing bugs, writing use documentation, seeking dev and moderator participation
[19:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Brainstorm status - fixing bugs, writing use documentation, seeking dev and moderator participation
[19:27] <nand> well, for now I'm pleased with the website
[19:27] <heno> The launch seems to have gone extremely well!
[19:27] <nand> good idea turnout
[19:27] <stgraber> 3389 ideas and 11234 users !!!
[19:27] <nand> the new front page ordering seems very efficient
[19:27] <heno> we also have 10-12 moderators signed up and some developers
[19:28] <nand> Now the next target is the handling of duplicates
[19:28] <nand> especially preventing them
[19:28] <heno> stgraber: any idea on how many active ideas? (non-deleted, non-dupes)
[19:28] <nand> with a ajax system like ubuntuforums.org && LP
[19:28] <nand> Yep, I should also add a stat page soon :)
[19:29] <heno> nand: that strikes me as a big task
[19:29] <nand> heno: Noo, I can do it in one day
[19:29] <stgraber> heno: I have a fresh DB dump here so I probably can tell you that with a bit of SQL
[19:29] <nand> The architecture behind QAPoll is pretty clean :)
[19:29] <heno> great
[19:30] <heno> also, please help improve https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brainstorm
[19:30] <bapoumba> may I have a question about duplicates handeling ?
[19:30] <heno> it's now linked from the front page
[19:30] <nand> bapoumba: yes?
[19:30] <bapoumba> how to deal with duplicates of duplicates ?
[19:30] <nand> heno: I've seen, yes, nice howto!
[19:31] <nand> bapoumba: the main idea cumulates the votes of all its duplicate. And by cumulate, I mean smartly cumulate
[19:31] <bapoumba> say A is reported as dup of B which is already a dup of C
[19:31] <nand> i.e. if one user vote +1 for two dups, only one +1 will be counted
[19:32] <nand> bapoumba: I'll add soon a list of all the duplicate at any level (dup, dup of dupe) on the idea page
[19:32] <bapoumba> okay :)
[19:32] <heno> I think the dup system should not block on bug or spec links
[19:33] <heno> they should be carried forward also when duping
[19:33] <nand> A problem I have noticed:
[19:33] <heno> we are losing some links ATM
[19:33] <nand> it's no so easy
[19:33] <nand> because often bad bugreport or bad spec are linked
[19:33] <nand> old, non revelant
[19:33] <nand> and thus it influences baldy on the status
[19:34] <stgraber> nand: What's the 'status' for deleted ideas ?
[19:34] <heno> yes, this may need a documentation-solution
[19:34] <nand> E.g. an idea is marked as "worked in progress" whereas it is not
[19:34] <nand> stgraber: the SQL number?
[19:34] <stgraber> nand: yep
[19:34] <nand> check qapoll.install, it's documented
[19:34] <nand> -2 IIRC
[19:34] <heno> ie. the moderators need to move some links around
[19:35] <nand> Personaly I often check and update the attachments, and this should be asked to the moderators too
[19:35] <stgraber> qawebsite=> SELECT count(id) FROM qapoll_choice WHERE duplicatenumber='-1' AND status!='-2';
[19:35] <stgraber>  count
[19:35] <stgraber> -------
[19:35] <stgraber> heno: ^
[19:35] <stgraber>   2245
[19:35] <stgraber> (1 row)
[19:35] <nand> sot that's the number of non-deleted and non-dup ideas
[19:35] <nand> stgraber: the nb of dup please?
[19:36] <stgraber> 578
[19:36] <stgraber> 326 deleted
[19:36] <heno> that seems like roughly sensible numbers
[19:36] <nand> oh, well pleased with the nb of dups
[19:36] <heno> most of that was Jose's spam
[19:37] <heno> any other topics?
[19:37] <bdmurray> I've made some progress with markus's help on yesterday's bugs
[19:37] <bdmurray> http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/yesterday/
[19:37] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~brian/reports/yesterday/
[19:39] <bdmurray> The report shows all the new bugs reported yesterday
[19:39] <bdmurray> My thought was we'd try to drive it to 0
[19:39] <bdmurray> I've added the sourcepackge like we discussed earlier and it is phenomenally faster
[19:40] <heno> sounds very good
[19:40] <heno> it would be cool to have a graph of the number over time
[19:40] <heno> yesterdays bugs three days ago, etc :)
[19:40] <bdmurray> heno: with the number "resetting" every day?
[19:41] <heno> btw, 130085 is likely now from yesterday
[19:41] <heno> bdmurray: how exactly do you define yesterday?
[19:41] <heno> just the previous date from when the script runs?
[19:42] <bdmurray> yes
[19:42] <heno> ok
[19:42] <bdmurray> so at 00:00 UTC it'll be 0 I think
[19:43] <heno> ok, how often does it update?
[19:43] <heno> it should run at 23.50 then really
[19:43] <bdmurray> er, that's not true it'll be whatever the total reported on the 5th was
[19:43] <bdmurray> it runs every 10 minutes at the moment
[19:43] <heno> assuming it runs once a day - ah, ok
[19:44] <heno> so you want to drive it to 0 in real time each day?
[19:44] <bdmurray> so if we go triage some of those the report will be shorter in ~10 minutes
[19:44] <bdmurray> right
[19:44] <heno> I get it now, cool
[19:44] <heno> sounds like a powerful tool
[19:45] <heno> can we do a bug day with it to introduce it to people?
[19:45] <heno> seems suitable for 5-a-day also
[19:46] <heno> bdmurray: ^ bug day?
[19:47] <bdmurray> bug day: probably - one concern I have is covering such a wide variety of packages though.  I feel the same way about apport-bug tagged bugs, but we could try it and see what happens
[19:47] <stgraber> liw: is your screen 1600x1200 ? :)
[19:47] <bdmurray> 5-a-day: right, just another entry point for finding "fresh" bugs
[19:47] <heno> and Finnish tz :)
[19:47] <liw> stgraber, 1680x1050 actually... the kvm image uses a too-big screen?
[19:48] <liw> heno, and Finnish keyboard, too, actually
[19:48] <liw> not sure how to solve that one
[19:48] <stgraber> liw: well, I have a 1680x1050 screen too but qemu started with 1600x1200 for usplash
[19:48] <heno> I'll send you a UK keyboard :)
[19:48] <liw> stgraber, yeah, it does that
[19:49] <liw> stgraber, I've no idea why
[19:49] <heno> we can take this to #ubuntu-testing
[19:49] <heno> I think we are done
[19:49] <heno> 3
[19:49] <nand> oh my.. And i have 1024x768...
[19:50] <heno> 2
[19:50] <heno> 1
[19:50] <nand> boom!
[19:50] <heno> #endmeeting
[19:50] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:50.
[19:50] <heno> thanks everyone!
[19:50] <heno> oh, anyone care to do a summary? :-D
[19:51] <heno> I still suck at that :(
[19:52] <heno> nope, ok. I'll take it
[20:01] <RichEd> who's here for the edubuntu meeting ?
[20:06] <LaserJock> anybody around for Edubuntu meeting?
[20:23] <pygi> LaserJock, me me
[20:26] <LaserJock> so, this is like the most exciting meeting ever ;-)
[20:26] <stgraber> yes :)
[20:26] <stgraber> anyone actually has something to say/ask ? :)
[20:27] <stgraber> only note from my side : iTalc has been promoted to Main !!!
[20:27] <pygi> oh noes!
[20:27] <pygi> the windows app in main!
[20:28] <stgraber> well, I and upstream have no problem with you rewriting the UI in GTK :)
[20:28] <stgraber> some parts are already moving to a separate lib
[20:29] <LaserJock> stgraber: what is it written in?
[20:30] <stgraber> C++
[20:36] <pygi> stgraber, you mean I should rewrite entire app? xD
[20:41] <stgraber> pygi: well, yeah :)
[20:41] <pygi> stgraber, you're no fun at all!
[20:58] <zul> afternoon
[20:58] <mathiaz> hello !
[20:58] <faulkes-> that it is
[20:58] <sommer> what up all
[20:58] <dendrobates> \o/
[20:58]  * jdstrand waves
[20:59] <kirkland> howdy
[20:59] <soren> o/
[20:59] <faulkes-> I think we are good to go
[21:00] <mathiaz> so - let's get started !
[21:00] <mathiaz> #startmeeting
[21:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 21:00. The chair is mathiaz.
[21:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:01] <faulkes-> lead away mathiaz
[21:01] <mathiaz> Today's agenda can be found online: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[21:02] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting.
[21:02] <mathiaz> Previous meeting: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20080227
[21:03] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] forum reporting
[21:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  forum reporting
[21:03] <faulkes-> ok then
[21:03] <mathiaz> anything to add or disscuss on the forum front faulkes- ?
[21:03] <faulkes-> yes
[21:03] <mathiaz> I think you've published the code on LP
[21:04] <faulkes-> I did a complete rewrite of the code and published it to LP
[21:04] <faulkes-> https://launchpad.net/forumstats/
[21:04] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great - do you have some documentation somewhere ?
[21:04] <faulkes-> it is much more exact in the nature of how it selects and adds stuff
[21:05] <faulkes-> there is a README file supplied with the source
[21:05] <faulkes-> and I have documented the source as well, it's only about 120 lines long
[21:05] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great. So what's the next step ?
[21:05] <mathiaz> faulkes-: do you want to add more features to it ?
[21:06] <faulkes-> the next step is linking the individual graphs and categories, to being able to see the individual posts
[21:06] <mathiaz> faulkes-: or should we think about what we can do with the outcome ?
[21:06] <faulkes-> which should be fairly easy to do, I have been very busy the last week with pm course exams and taking on a new FT position
[21:07] <faulkes-> the outcome, is more a time based situation, I will also add in the ability to select by date
[21:07] <mathiaz> faulkes-: ok. Seems great.
[21:07] <faulkes-> because the posts affecting something from time X to time Y, may be unrelated due to version from time Z to time L
[21:08] <owh> faulkes-: Is there a way to host the current branch so it can display results?
[21:08] <owh> As in, be "live"
[21:08] <faulkes-> that may be possible but it would require access to my database
[21:08] <faulkes-> if you want to host one yourself, you can run the code completely independent of me
[21:09] <faulkes-> and allow it to gather stats
[21:09] <faulkes-> the requirements are listed in the README for running it
[21:09] <owh> Does the code have a means to generate a database as well?
[21:09] <faulkes-> there is sql files included in the LP branch
[21:09] <owh> Cool.
[21:10] <faulkes-> the README has instructions regarding them
[21:10] <owh> Excellent, documentation that actually helps :)
[21:10] <mathiaz> How is the classification of post done ?
[21:10] <mathiaz> faulkes-: I think this is the trickiest part
[21:11] <faulkes-> classification is done via a dictionary
[21:11] <faulkes-> unfortunately, that means building the dictionary
[21:11] <faulkes-> I have included the one which is currently used
[21:11] <mathiaz> faulkes-: ok - is there a way to reassign posts to a different category if they've been misclassifed ?
[21:11] <faulkes-> so, if you wanted to use the code to monitor say, Desktop forum, you would need to build your own
[21:12] <faulkes-> mathiaz: currently no, that would be an admin feature I guess, but wouldn't be hard to build in
[21:12] <faulkes-> as well as add additional categories, terms, etc..
[21:12] <owh> Going that route would then require a sort of "meta" individual, that seems like a lot of work.
[21:12] <faulkes-> right now, it is by hand, mostly for lack of time on my part to build that in but it would be a fairly straight forward excersize
[21:13] <mathiaz> faulkes-: These are more features. Let's try to get something done first and see how can extract information from that.
[21:13] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[21:13] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Server survey
[21:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server survey
[21:13] <owh> That would be me.
[21:13] <faulkes-> me again I guess as nijaba is away or do you want to handle it mathiaz?
[21:14] <mathiaz> nijaba is not around.
[21:14] <faulkes-> I can go from his action email, that you updated
[21:14] <mathiaz> I've updated the ReportingPage with a status he sent me.
[21:14] <mathiaz> Anything else to add ?
[21:14] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
[21:15] <faulkes-> sec
[21:15] <owh> While faulkes- is looking...
[21:15] <owh> I created https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch which has as many contacts in it as possible, but suggestions are welcome. The intent is to use the body text as the email text.
[21:15] <owh> I tried coming up with actual press contacts where relevant, but I don't have any actual Canonical press contact.
[21:15] <owh> I'm not sure how we best ask Server Team Members to blog about the survey so it shows up on Planet Ubuntu.
[21:15] <mathiaz> It seems that the survey is too long to take.
[21:16] <owh> Yes, I'd agree with that.
[21:16] <faulkes-> well, we've only had a small sampling so far
[21:16] <faulkes-> however
[21:16] <faulkes-> we should be always reporting feature/bug requests to LP, I don't generally check the page itself
[21:16] <faulkes-> so there is some stuff there that I can work on
[21:17] <faulkes-> as for shortening the survey, I think we can do that effectively
[21:17] <kirkland> mathiaz: I've communicated with Jonathan Corbet of LWN before, I can send him a note asking if it would be possible to publicize on LWN.net
[21:17] <kirkland> no promises--he only sometimes responds to my email :-)
[21:17] <faulkes-> I will look at tuning the questions so it is faster
[21:17] <owh> kirkland: Add it to the wiki page, you don't need to give the email address if you're not comfortable with it.
[21:18] <mathiaz> kirkland: seems great - could you add that to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ServerSurveyLaunch ?
[21:18] <owh> kirkland: That way we don't hit LWN multiple times.
[21:18] <owh> faulkes-: I wonder if the survey length is a function of a poorly defined audience/spec. I'm not saying it is, I'm just wondering.
[21:19] <mathiaz> [ACTION] faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
[21:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  faulkes- to work on tuning the questions to make the survey shorter
[21:19] <owh> faulkes-: It seems to be sprawling all over the place.
[21:19] <mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: could you coordinate with nijaba ?
[21:19] <owh> Yup
[21:19] <faulkes-> there is some logical order which needs to be done on the questions
[21:19] <faulkes-> mathiaz: yes, I will speak to nijaba
[21:19] <kirkland> mathiaz: owh: done.
[21:20] <mathiaz> owh: faulkes-: thanks -
[21:20] <mathiaz> Let's move on.
[21:20] <owh> Perhaps we can catch up afterwards faulkes- and have a chat about it.
[21:20] <faulkes-> certainly
[21:20] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] ServerTestingTeam
[21:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  ServerTestingTeam
[21:21] <mathiaz> So I spent some time to revamp the ServerTestingTeam wiki pages.
[21:21] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTestingTeam
[21:21] <mathiaz> The idea is to increase hardware testing for hardy.
[21:22] <mathiaz> Reporting the results is done in the wiki.
[21:22] <faulkes-> interesting, ok, I may be able to add some to that
[21:22] <mathiaz> I'll also send an email to the previous people involved in the team and ask if they can still contribute.
[21:23] <mathiaz> Anyone that has some server hardware is welcome to participate.
[21:23] <faulkes-> for those unaware of my current status, I've moved from being a consultant to a FTE job, I will be converting the current environment to -server
[21:23] <mathiaz> The idea is to download an iso and make sure the installation is successfll
[21:24] <mathiaz> Yet another way to contribute to the Server Team :)
[21:24] <faulkes-> mathiaz: I should have extra hardware resources now available to put to it
[21:24] <mathiaz> faulkes-: great ! I've updated the wiki page to streamline the reporting process
[21:25] <owh> mathiaz: That's looking great. Do you think it would be useful to add that link to the Survey Announcement to encourage more helpers, or might that be counter productive?
[21:25] <mathiaz> owh: I'll make a separate announcement
[21:25] <faulkes-> mathiaz: will ServerTestingTeam be a subset of the ServerTeam for membership purposes or?
[21:25] <owh> Given that we're targeting -server users.
[21:25] <mathiaz> faulkes-: for now, there isn't any LP team or membership
[21:26] <mathiaz> It may be usefull at some point.
[21:26] <faulkes-> owh: well, I think the survey is geared more to established environments rather than test ones
[21:26] <mathiaz> faulkes-: correct - this is targeted at development versions.
[21:26] <owh> Sure, but they're the same audience I would have thought.
[21:26] <faulkes-> however, I see the reverse of that, in which we could bring in more people who have to support -server
[21:26]  * faulkes- nods
[21:27] <owh> Hence my query :)
[21:27] <mathiaz> I'll send an email to -server to bring more people on board for the ServerTestingTeam
[21:27] <faulkes-> I think for now, we should leave it seperate and let mathiaz start
[21:28] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
[21:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send an email about the ServerTestingTeam
[21:28] <mathiaz> Let's move on and Review Roadmap and ReportingPage.
[21:28] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
[21:28] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReportingPage
[21:29] <mathiaz> So I'd like to go through the items that are on the Roadmap but haven't any status on the ReportingPage
[21:30] <owh> Is there a way to combine the two pages so it becomes more obvious?
[21:30] <owh> Or is that counter productive?
[21:30] <mathiaz> owh: well - I'm still trying to figure out how we can do that correctly
[21:30] <mathiaz> so I'm still experimenting with this
[21:31] <mathiaz> The ReportingPage is something new
[21:31] <owh> We could make a template that "encourages" correct editing.
[21:31] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] iscsi support
[21:31] <MootBot> New Topic:  iscsi support
[21:31] <mathiaz> soren: any news on that ?
[21:32] <soren> YEah.
[21:32] <soren> Um... It seems that there are a few use cases that I had not taken into account when I implemented it.
[21:32] <soren> Booting off of the network and having your root filesystem on iscsi for instance.
[21:33] <soren> So.. That's still work that probably needs to be done.
[21:33] <mathiaz> soren: would this be for hardy ?
[21:33] <mathiaz> soren: isn't that a new feature ?
[21:33] <soren> mathiaz: Yes. Yes, it is.
[21:34] <soren> mathiaz: WEll, from certain users' perspective it's a bug.
[21:34] <soren> I'll have to take it up with dendrobates and slangasek.
[21:35] <owh> mathiaz: Isn't it only a bug if someone looses functionality, aren't we talking about *new* iscsi support?
[21:35] <mathiaz> [ACTION] soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
[21:35] <MootBot> ACTION received:  soren to talk with dendrobates and slangasek about iscsi support for root fs
[21:35] <owh> I mean, at present it's just "not yet supported".
[21:35] <mathiaz> owh: correct - this is why it needs to be discussed with the release team.
[21:36] <soren> owh: It's a grey area.
[21:36] <owh> Ah.
[21:36]  * owh shuts up.
[21:36] <mathiaz> owh: we could try to get a FFexception.
[21:36] <soren> Just because something has never worked doesn't mean it's a feature.
[21:36] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
[21:36] <MootBot> New Topic:  Fix bugs marked by the QATeam
[21:36] <soren> Er... crap, that came out wrong.
[21:36] <owh> I understand, I just figured we're better off making sure that what there is is working.
[21:37] <mathiaz> The qa team has put up a list of bug for hardy
[21:37] <mathiaz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=qa-hardy-server
[21:37] <mathiaz> kirkland: did you fix the nfs bug ?
[21:37] <faulkes-> at least from my experience, booting from san for root fs has been around quite awhile, especially via pxe
[21:37] <kirkland> mathiaz: affirmative, with the help of kees, and inifinity
[21:38] <kirkland> mathiaz: no longer in that list ;-)  woohoo
[21:38] <mathiaz> kirkland: great !
[21:38] <mathiaz> there is an ntp bug left now
[21:39] <owh> Isn't that just a case of changing the init.d order for ntp?
[21:39] <kirkland> mathiaz: I was thinking that it could be solved by similar locking
[21:39] <mathiaz> owh: I don't think so.
[21:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: i think it has to do with NetworkManager
[21:40] <mathiaz> kirkland: are the two bugs caused by the same problem
[21:40] <mathiaz> kirkland: yes - that's what I think too.
[21:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: only distantly...
[21:40] <kirkland> mathiaz: both have upstart implications
[21:40] <mathiaz> so it's an ifup/down script problem may be.
[21:40] <mathiaz> ntp hasn't been designed to run on a laptop/desktop.
[21:41] <owh> It seems to be related to DHCP rather than NetworkManager per se, that is, the ifup/down script.
[21:42] <mathiaz> anyone wants to have a look at the bug ?
[21:42] <zul> not me
[21:42] <faulkes-> I wont likely be able to touch it either
[21:42]  * soren looks up in the air
[21:43] <owh> Fine.
[21:43]  * faulkes- whistles innocently, hands behind his back
[21:43] <owh> I'll have a squiz.
[21:43] <owh> Sigh.
[21:43] <owh> :)
[21:43] <kirkland> mathiaz: I don't think it's ifup/ifdown so much
[21:43] <kirkland> but perhaps...
[21:43] <kirkland> mathiaz: should I tackle that bug?
[21:43] <kirkland> (I hadn't been concentrating on it)
[21:43] <mathiaz> [ACTION] owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
[21:43] <MootBot> ACTION received:  owh to look into the ntp bug on the qa-server tag list
[21:44] <owh> Damn, too slow :)
[21:44] <mathiaz> kirkland: too late ;) - but you can still help out owh
[21:44]  * owh accepts any help:)
[21:44] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Virtualization
[21:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Virtualization
[21:44] <kirkland> ;-)  ping me owh
[21:44] <mathiaz> soren: any news ?
[21:45] <soren> Yes.
[21:45] <soren> kvm 62 was uploaded.
[21:45] <soren> I've just now (within the last 47 seconds) discovered an issie with virtio_net in it which I'm working on.
[21:46] <soren> I've sent the corresponding updates to the kernel to the kernel team.
[21:46] <soren> It'll be pulled after the alpha releases.
[21:46] <soren> I'm also looking into some last minute virtio fun to include in the guest kernel.
[21:46] <soren> The paravirt clock, to be exact.
[21:47] <zul> sounds scarey
[21:47] <soren> Other htan that, I'm going into mad bug fixing mode.
[21:47] <soren> zul: I pretty much hooks up your guest clock to the host's ditto. And that's the end of sucky timing issues in virtual machines.
[21:47] <mathiaz> soren: great
[21:47] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Windows authentication integration
[21:47] <MootBot> New Topic:  Windows authentication integration
[21:48] <zul> soren: how well tested is it? does it report clock drifts and the like?
[21:48] <mathiaz> dendrobates: is there a new version likewise-open ready to be tested ?
[21:48] <soren> zul: That's the sort of stuff I need to check up on first.
[21:48] <zul> soren: yah :)
[21:48] <mathiaz> people started to test what's in hardy and reported bugs.
[21:49] <dendrobates> mathiaz: not yet.  waiting on upstream.
[21:49] <dendrobates> mathiaz: was supposed to be today.
[21:50] <mathiaz> Ok - I think that's all for the Roadmap.
[21:50] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Any other business
[21:50] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business
[21:50] <mathiaz> anyone wants to add something ?
[21:50] <zul> ebox had a ffe filed today
[21:50] <zul> but nothing from me
[21:51] <mathiaz> nealmcb: could you add an factoid for servergui ?
[21:51] <mathiaz> nealmcb: I've added an item about it on the Roadmap
[21:51] <sommer> ivoks mentioned that he's been sick for the last 10 days, but should be back soon
[21:52] <sommer> to work on bacula, etc
[21:53] <owh> Does this mean we have a meeting that actually finishes in less than an hour?
[21:53] <mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
[21:53] <MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
[21:53] <mathiaz> same time, same place, next week ?
[21:53] <owh> Yup
[21:53] <kirkland> +1
[21:53] <sommer> o//
[21:54] <owh> These early mornings are going to kill me one day :)
[21:54] <mathiaz> alright then. See ya next week
[21:55] <mathiaz> thanks all for being here.
[21:55] <mathiaz> And happy alpha6 testing ! :)
[21:55] <sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
[21:55] <owh> Thanks mathiaz
[21:55] <mathiaz> #endmeeting
[21:55] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 21:55.