[00:03] <WorkingOnWise> is the kernel 2.6.24-11-generic a 32 bit kernel?
[00:03] <RAOF> Insufficient data.
[00:03] <WorkingOnWise> what else do u need to know?
[00:04] <RAOF> The i386 -generic kernel is a 32bit kernel, the AMD64 -generic kkernel is a 64bit kernel :)
[00:05] <WorkingOnWise> in a console, there is mention of x86_64
[00:06] <twb> You can't apt-get install the "wrong" architecture kernel, AFAIK
[00:07] <WorkingOnWise> The cd I instaled from was the x86 iso, but now I see debs with AMD64 in the package name flying by as apt-get updates things....
[00:08] <twb> Are you sure you installed from i386?
[00:08] <twb> Switch to vt2 and run `uname -a' to find out.
[00:10] <WorkingOnWise> the last part of the text string that is output is x86_64 GNU/Linux, but the cd is definitly i386. I just double checked
[00:12] <cwillu> Weird.  ff3 is displaying very huge
[00:13] <twb> He's wrong.
[00:13] <cwillu> I am not :p
[00:13] <twb> cwillu: not you, the other guy who thinks he's running an i386 install
[00:13] <cwillu> twb, I know, just felt like telling myself a joke ;p
[00:21] <Lasivian> I'm curious if anyone knows anything about the Hermes I wireless chipset and if it's been added into Hardy
[00:21] <Lasivian> thanks
[00:23] <twb> Lasivian: what's the package name?
[00:26] <Lasivian> hrrm, it's not a current package
[00:27] <Lasivian> the Orinoco driver works with it, but has no monitor mode. The monitor mode driver is third-party, but hasen't been made current for the 2.6.22 kernel so it can't be compiled
[00:27] <Amaranth> then it almost certainly is not in hardy
[00:27] <Amaranth> which has 2.6.24
[00:27] <Lasivian> i'm a total newbie, pardon my lack of knowing exactly what i'm talking about :)
[00:27] <Amaranth> so the driver is unmaintained and falling behind kernel releases badly, from the sound of it
[00:27] <Lasivian> is it possible to request it's addition?
[00:28] <Amaranth> probably not
[00:28] <Lasivian> damn
[00:28] <Amaranth> sounds like there is no upstream
[00:28] <Amaranth> dead project
[00:28] <Lasivian> it's still a widely used card
[00:28] <Amaranth> We try to remove dead projects from Ubuntu, not add them :P
[00:28] <Lasivian> ok, do you know where I might be able to hire someone to update it for me?
[00:28] <Amaranth> Then again those kernel guys are weird
[00:29] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[00:29] <Amaranth> what is the name of the driver?
[00:29] <Lasivian> not precisely sure, here is the thread regarding it: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=583426
[00:31] <Amaranth> Oh, this drivers seems to need a port to the new wireless driver interface
[00:31] <Amaranth> That should be...fun
[00:36] <Lasivian> I sense sarcasm
[00:37] <Hydrogoner> WUTS SSARCASM
[00:37] <Eragon> doh
[00:37] <Eragon> someone owns this name :(
[00:37] <Allthegoodonesrt> come on
[00:39] <Instabin> !upgrade
[00:39] <ubotu> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes
[00:40] <Instabin> how stable is 8.04 right now?
[00:41] <Instabin> Also is the synergy package made for the distro yet
[00:41] <joomlaNEWBIE> anyone know if I can put hardy on a flashdive to isntall it
[00:41] <joomlaNEWBIE> since I don't wanna waist a cd
[00:42] <Instabin> !flash
[00:42] <ubotu> To install Flash see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash (for !Dapper and !Edgy, a recent version is available in !backports) - See also !Restricted and !Gnash
[00:42] <joomlaNEWBIE> yea I now but it says for dapper and edgy
[00:42] <pwnguin> strange
[00:42] <joomlaNEWBIE> I want to do it with the new 8.04
[00:43] <pwnguin> acpid clearly notices that i have pressed the power button
[00:43] <joomlaNEWBIE> aplha
[00:43] <pwnguin> but GNOME doesn't bring up the menu i request
[00:44] <Instabin> joomlaNEWBIE: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/FromUSBStick
[00:46] <Instabin> joomlaNEWBIE: You will have to modify it for 8.04
[00:47] <joomlaNEWBIE> Instabin: how?
[00:48] <hischild> is there a specific reason as to why hardy will only find a single core on my pc?
[00:54] <joomlaNEWBIE> Instabin: how do I modify it
[00:54] <joomlaNEWBIE> so it works with 8.04
[00:56] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ooo 2.4 uses really large font
[00:58] <joomlaNEWBIE> could I just upgrade from 7.10?
[00:58] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> joomlaNEWBIE, yes
[00:58] <joomlaNEWBIE> ah
[00:58] <joomlaNEWBIE> how?
[00:59] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> hardy is still alpha, u really want to take the risk?
[00:59] <joomlaNEWBIE> yep..
[00:59] <joomlaNEWBIE> I got 7.10 in alpha also... I love to test
[00:59] <joomlaNEWBIE> even though I am not very technical..
[00:59] <joomlaNEWBIE> anyhow... where is the place to upgrade
[01:00] <joomlaNEWBIE> can't find the hardy page on the site
[01:00] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> sudo update-manager -c -d
[01:01] <joomlaNEWBIE> ah
[01:01] <joomlaNEWBIE> thanks..
[01:01] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> google it
[01:01] <joomlaNEWBIE> sorry
[01:01] <joomlaNEWBIE> also can someone explain me sudo iwlist scan I get what it does
[01:01] <joomlaNEWBIE> but what does iwlist mean?
[01:01] <joomlaNEWBIE> I am just trying to understand the command
[01:02] <Jordan_U> joomlaNEWBIE, Sudo is not required with that command, it scans for wireless networks
[01:03] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> interface wireless list?
[01:04] <Jordan_U> There is also iwevent, iwconfig etc
[01:05] <pwnguin> there's a manpage..
[01:05] <pwnguin> man iwlist
[01:08] <hischild> is there a specific reason as to why hardy will only find a single core on my pc? and how can i remove/disable the indexing thing?
[01:09] <joomlaNEWBIE> I know it scans for wireless networks..
[01:09] <joomlaNEWBIE> but I was wonder what iwlist means
[01:09] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> it's just a name
[01:09] <joomlaNEWBIE> ah
[01:09] <joomlaNEWBIE> ok
[01:11] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> !tracker
[01:11] <ubotu> Services to index files for fast searching include: Beagle (front-ends: beagle, catfish, gnome-main-menu, mozilla-beagle for !GNOME; kerry, kio-beagle for !KDE; beaglefs for !CLI) - Tracker (tracker-search-tool, libdeskbar-tracker for GNOME; tracker-utils for CLI) - Strigi (strigi-applet, strigi-client for KDE, strigi-utils for CLI) - Kat (for KDE) - Pinot (and pinot-applet for GNOME) - Doodle (for CLI)
[01:11] <hischild> yeah ... but which one should i remove to get rid of the right top thing?
[01:12] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> hischild, that's just an applet
[01:12] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> remove it won't stop the indexing
[01:12] <hischild> yeah ... i know ... yet i dont know the applets name ... and it wont go away
[01:13] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> gnome-session-properties
[01:13] <hischild> [Hardy]TuTUXG, doesnt have to stop indexing ... sorry should have been more clear ... the thing just has to go, :-)
[01:13] <cwillu> hischild, have you updated and restarted the session today?  there was some updates that affect that I think
[01:13] <hischild> cwillu, i isntalled it about half an hour or so agi
[01:13] <hischild> no wait, make that 1,5 hours
[01:13] <cwillu> aka, applet preferences | animate icon when indexing, and hide icon might be what you want
[01:13] <cwillu> hischild, and did you relog?
[01:14] <hischild> it didnt save it :( iĺl retry
[01:14] <cwillu> okay, then it's a matter of waiting till they fix it :p
[01:14] <hischild> cwillu, after the update? ofcourse
[01:14] <hischild> cwillu, hence why i want to remove it ;-) but iĺl see what i can find in gnome-session-properties
[01:15] <hischild> that should do it
[01:15] <cwillu> hischild, it's a status bar thingy (not just an applet), as long as the tracker daemon is running it'll show up there;  you could just get rid of the tracker gui completely, but that's not really useful from a testing standpoint
[01:16] <hischild> cwillu, true ... yet it was merely annoying me
[01:16] <hischild> i hate things that annoy me :p
[01:16] <cwillu> hischild, you should see what firefox looks like on my machine :p
[01:16] <hischild> cwillu, pics
[01:16] <cwillu> one sec :p
[01:17] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, what does it look like?
[01:17] <cwillu> one sec
[01:18] <cwillu> http://nokia.cwillu.com/giant%20firefox.png
[01:19] <hischild> that looks like a _huge_ font size
[01:19] <cwillu> everything else is normal though (other apps, look to the right)
[01:19] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> nice
[01:19] <cwillu> ff theme is standard
[01:19] <hischild> yeah
[01:19] <cwillu> deleted out .mozilla, all the .gonf/etc folders
[01:20] <cwillu> so it's kinda baffling me
[01:20] <naught102> anyone know how to get kooka to find SANE in hardy?
[01:20] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, cant u just set the font size?
[01:20] <cwillu> [Hardy]TuTUXG, you're looking at the url bar, etc, not just the page, right?
[01:21] <cwillu> look at the size of the menu bar compared to the terminal's
[01:21] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, u...
[01:21] <cwillu> the zoom of the page is reset, it only zooms out one more setting, which is still bigger than normal
[01:22] <cwillu> (me realizes that the placing of the full user name in the status bar is something of a privacy issue for screen grabs...)
[01:22] <cwillu> [Hardy]TuTUXG, ?
[01:23] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, nah..
[01:23] <cwillu> it's definately the full-page zooming thing going on, but I don't understand where it's getting it from
[01:24] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> wired
[01:24] <cwillu> weird even
[01:25] <SeveredCross> Has anyone else had rendering issues with FF3?
[01:25] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, how about disable the icons
[01:25] <SeveredCross> Just generally misrendered images, pages, etc.
[01:25] <SeveredCross> I can't tell if it's Firefox 3 or fglrx causing the issues, because Firefox 2, Opera, Epiphany and Konqueror all work fine.
[01:25] <cwillu> [Hardy]TuTUXG, i.e., for gnome in general?
[01:26] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, for ff
[01:26] <cwillu> I don't follow
[01:26] <hischild> allright im out for the night ... c you all later =)
[01:26] <cwillu> oh, okay
[01:26] <hischild> and tnx
[01:27] <hischild> !helpercookie | all
[01:27] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about helpercookie - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[01:27] <hischild> =,=
[01:27] <cwillu> ya, it's still weird, the text is just in a too huge bar, and the page text is still way bigger than it should be
[01:27] <hischild> stupid bot
[01:27] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, for the manu bar and the bookmark toolbar
[01:27] <cwillu> ya, I did
[01:28] <cwillu> it's still weird (note the page is displaying wrong too, at default sizes etc)
[01:28] <cwillu> font size is set to 10 points in appearance as well in firefox
[01:29] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> cwillu, out of idea
[01:29]  * cwillu wonders if it's xrandr related
[01:29] <twb> cwillu: sounds like the DPI s 100 instead of 75
[01:29] <cwillu> only other thing i can think of
[01:29] <cwillu> twb, no, already checked
[01:30] <twb> cwillu: note that both xrandr and gnome try to change the DPI on the fly
[01:30] <cwillu> twb, everything else in the session displays fine (I'll post another screenshot to show)
[01:30] <twb> Even *new* clients?
[01:30] <crimsun> that network-manager upload completely hosed my connection
[01:30] <cwillu> twb, everything
[01:31] <twb> OK.
[01:31] <cwillu> I can open up anything and everything except firefox
[01:31] <cwillu> at least, I haven't found anything else that displays wrong
[01:31] <maccam94> idk if this is the place to mention this, but will hardy handle 6G ipods automatically? and if it doesn't already, it should be made to. (this depends on rhythmbox and libgpod)
[01:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> maccam94, 6G is those on with video?
[01:33] <cwillu> I'm just gonna disable the second head and see if it works better
[01:34] <cwillu> hmm, that fixed it
[01:34] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> ha
[01:34] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: the iPod Classic
[01:34] <maccam94> 80GB and 160GB models
[01:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> maccam94, newest one?
[01:35] <maccam94> yeah
[01:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> no idea
[01:35] <cwillu> that's odd
[01:35] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> maccam94, if they use the same firmware...
[01:35] <bazhang> libgpod is version 0.6.0 currently can handle newer iPods maccam94 (in Hardy that is)
[01:35] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: i have one right now, and getting it to work in Gutsy and in gentoo is a royal PITA
[01:36] <maccam94> bazhang: correct, but when i've done it you need to manually run a command
[01:36] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: the problem is that the music database is now encrypted, and it needs to be decrypted by a tool that's part of libgpod
[01:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> maccam94, try medibuntu?
[01:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> !medibuntu
[01:37] <ubotu> medibuntu is a repository of packages that cannot be included into the Ubuntu distribution for legal reasons - See http://www.medibuntu.org
[01:37] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: the problem isn't codecs
[01:37] <Bambi_BOFH> whats the best way to start debuging a system hard lock? tail syslog/messages?
[01:37] <SeveredCross> No, because those'll get overwritten when you reboot the system.
[01:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> maccam94, they have newer libs too
[01:37] <SeveredCross> At least I think so.
[01:37] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> afaik
[01:37] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: there is a tool that is part of libgpod 0.6, but it needs to be run manually afaik
[01:38] <maccam94> i'm just saying in terms of getting new users, it's something that should be addressed for Hardy
[01:38] <Bambi_BOFH> SeveredCross: was that to me?
[01:38] <bazhang> maccam94: to get them working in gutsy you can install the Hardy version of libgpod--very risky imo though
[01:38] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> put it on ubuntu brainstorm
[01:38] <SeveredCross> Bambi_BOFH: Yes.
[01:38] <maccam94> bazhang: well i just compiled from source
[01:39] <maccam94> [Hardy]TuTUXG: good idea!
[01:39] <Bambi_BOFH> SeveredCross: syslog is rotated daily, its not a per-boot thing. i was thinking of tailing live though, not after the reboot
[01:39] <SeveredCross> Ah, it's not?
[01:39]  * [Hardy]TuTUXG luvs ubuntu brainstorm
[01:39] <SeveredCross> I thought it was rotated at every reboot. Learn something new every day.
[01:39] <SeveredCross> Tailing live might work if the crash is reproducible.
[01:40] <Bambi_BOFH> its more a hard lock - it could even be heat related, but i dont know hyet
[01:40] <Bambi_BOFH> *yet
[01:40] <SeveredCross> Crash, hard lock, same thing, you got the point. :)
[01:40] <Bambi_BOFH> :)
[01:40] <bazhang> maccam94: no need to compile, though you can if you wish
[01:41] <Bambi_BOFH> afk a bit, testing $stuff
[01:41] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> crimsun, how broken?
[01:44] <biggahed> hello there. Ive got a notebook which has a hotkey to disable/enable bluetooth/wireless and id like to know how to manually setup those, as theyre not working. kern log even shows that the event is captured, by enabling the wireless. The problem is that it only enables it, every keypress. Any clues?
[01:44] <crimsun> [Hardy]TuTUXG: nm-supplicant.c
[01:44] <crimsun> [Hardy]TuTUXG: was broken.
[01:45] <crimsun> [Hardy]TuTUXG: that broke wireless.
[01:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> crimsun, i c
[01:48] <cwillu> crimsun, yay, so I didn't brick my router :p
[01:49] <naught102> !kooka
[01:49] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about kooka - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[01:51] <biggahed> wrong place to ask? :)
[01:53] <maccam94> biggahed: which version of ubuntu are you using?
[01:54] <biggahed> hardy
[01:59] <biggahed> its a lenovo notebook. has a keyboard almost like the thinkpads. in thinkwiki theres a method to make this work, but involves messing with /proc/acpi/ibm/blue* , which is not available for me in the acpi dir
[02:27] <SeveredCross> Is NetworkManager broken for anyone else?
[02:27] <maccam94> SeveredCross: /topic
[02:27] <SeveredCross> Oh hey.
[02:27]  * SeveredCross missed that.
[02:27] <SeveredCross> I really should learn to read the topic(s).
[02:27] <maccam94> :-)
[02:27] <crimsun> for shame.  I even put it at the beginning.
[02:27] <bazhang> haha
[02:27] <dohboy> thats a long topic and my client scrolls it to the end :)
[02:28] <maccam94> mine cuts off after the beginning :-P
[02:28] <secretlondon> xchat gives you it all
[02:29] <ethana2> whoever got scim working in firefox3..
[02:29] <maccam94> in pidgin if you doubleclick the topic it lets you see the whole thing
[02:29] <ethana2> i owe you
[02:29] <maccam94> what exactly does SCIM do?
[02:29] <maccam94> i've seen it somewhere before...
[02:30] <secretlondon> input methods for chinese etc
[02:30] <maccam94> ahhh
[02:32] <dohboy> is anyone else using a linksys wpc300N wireless pcmcia adapter with hardy?  Ive been using ndiswrapper to get it online lately.. just curious if theres a better way
[02:33] <dohboy> of course now isnt the time to screw with it since network-manager is broken today :)
[02:33] <maccam94> haha
[02:35] <DanaG> Hmm, I didn't install the NetworkManager update, because there were no changelogs.
[02:35] <DanaG> Thus, it's not broken for me.
[02:35] <crimsun> -0ubuntu1 is broken; -0ubuntu3 is fixed.
[02:35] <crimsun> and wired Ethernet connections are fine.
[02:36]  * desrt tickles the dohboy
[02:36] <dohboy> hehe
[03:00] <twb> Within the busybox recovery shell, host(1) is installed but cannot run because liblwres.so.30 is not present.
[03:00] <twb> This is an initramfs-tools bug.
[03:01] <twb> Similarly ping(1) has no libresolv.so.2
[03:01] <twb> Oh, I'm sorry.
[03:01] <twb> Something has added /root to $PATH; I must be running things that aren't in the initrd at all.
[03:03] <DanaG> I'm on 0.6.5-0ubuntu17 for network-manager.
[03:05] <vlowther> DanaG: don;t upgrade then. :)
[03:07] <SeveredCross> 0.6.6~rc2-0ubuntu2 I think.
[03:07] <SeveredCross> ubuntu1, sorry.
[03:16] <Cpudan80> Hello all
[03:16] <secretlondon> hi
[03:16] <Cpudan80> Has the artwork for hardy been decided on yet?
[03:17] <SeveredCross> I think so, yeah.
[03:17] <SeveredCross> I really like the new default background.
[03:17] <Cpudan80> Any screenshots you know of?
[03:17] <Cpudan80> I hope they got rid of the brown
[03:18] <Cpudan80> I'm not a fan of the orange/brown
[03:18] <secretlondon> they won't - that's the 'house style'
[03:18] <secretlondon> you either love it or hate it
[03:18] <SeveredCross> I would do shots of my install but it's got Compiz customizations and crap, and I'm too lazy to turn it all off.
[03:18] <Cpudan80> lol np
[03:19] <Cpudan80> secretlondon: Well maybe not get rid of it completely, just kinda give it a face lift
[03:19] <secretlondon> nothing stopping you making yours dull and blue though ;)
[03:19] <secretlondon> well the new wallpaper is interesting and a face lift :)
[03:19] <Cpudan80> I switched to clearlooks - but I didn't really like that
[03:20] <pwnguin> the color theme is important
[03:20] <pwnguin> it's sort of a branding thing
[03:21] <pwnguin> its pretty easy to spot when someone's using ubuntu for screenshots etc
[03:21] <secretlondon> yes
[03:21] <maccam94> lol indeed
[03:22] <pwnguin> i liked the elephant skin
[03:23] <maccam94> moi aussi
[03:23] <J-_> I'm trying to configure my wireless internet, and I'm just wonder if there are any problems with wpa2 and hardy?
[03:23] <secretlondon> see the topic
[03:23] <maccam94> J-_: network manager is broken today
[03:24] <pwnguin> is it?
[03:24] <secretlondon> yes
[03:24] <pwnguin> i hadnt noticed
[03:24] <secretlondon> wifi only
[03:24] <pwnguin> seems to work for me
[03:24] <J-_> Darn, I had it working earlier on roaming connected to my unsecured network
[03:25] <J-_> then, I enabled wpa2, it kept going back to wpa
[03:25] <J-_> now it's not doing anything =P
[03:25] <J-_> and I haven't updated today
[03:26] <pwnguin> guess i'll hold off on the nm upgrade then ;)
[03:26] <J-_> is wpa easy to crack now?
[03:26]  * J-_ sees if he can use wpa instead
[03:27] <pwnguin> i havent seen anything quite like the WEP hacks
[03:27] <crimsun> well, WEP is far more broken than WPA
[03:27] <pwnguin> indeed
[03:28] <pwnguin> or at least, we know that wep is really quite broken
[03:31] <pwnguin> man
[03:31] <pwnguin> nouveau is really snappy with ff3
[03:31] <pwnguin> scrolling i mean
[03:34] <J-_> darn no wpa usage either
[03:34] <J-_> hmmm
[03:36] <atrus> grr. gnome-power-manager doesn't notice that the ac is plugged into my laptop sometimes, so if i leave it alone, it'll suspend itself to save batteries, even though suspend is configured "off" when the ac is plugged in
[03:40] <pwnguin> is it just me or does the splash screen fail at hiding the text?
[03:40] <pwnguin> bootsplash i mean
[03:42]  * DanaG uses wpa2 -- viva la dd-wrt!
[03:43] <DanaG> I really like the new Heron wallpaper, but the background itself (not the heron) made my mom think of baby puke.
[03:43] <DanaG> I'd love to see the Heron become part of the default wallpaper -- then I could get it as a case skin for the lid of my laptop, and use it show off that I use Ubuntu, without it being blatantly branded.
[03:44] <J-_> I just bought the darn wrt54gs hoping to have wireless tonight =(
[03:45] <DanaG> Use dd-wrt if it's not the cheapo weak version with little memory and flash.
[03:46] <J-_> it was like $90
[03:46] <J-_> the dude it's the same as the wrt54g just with a speed boost
[03:47] <J-_> the dude said*
[03:47] <J-_> I just hope my network is secure. =|
[03:47] <J-_> the gf was 10 bucks more the the g
[03:48] <J-_> I wanted to get the wrt54gl but they didn't have em
[03:48] <pwnguin> do they publish gimp versions of the background?
[03:48] <DanaG> There are SVG versions.
[03:49] <J-_> than the g*
[03:49] <pwnguin> also, someone should probably go about adding image support to brainstorm
[03:49] <pwnguin> for themes etc
[03:51] <tonyyarusso> bother, I just lost my wireless card in Hardy
[03:51] <secretlondon> yes
[03:52] <J-_> tonyyarusso: I did too
[03:52] <J-_> was working for about 5 minutes. bought the router tonight then network manager borked
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> J-_: Intel 2915 A/B/G here - you?
[03:53] <secretlondon> tonyyarusso : its everyone see topic
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> This is the first time I've had to boot into Gutsy for a few months actually
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> secretlondon: Ah, doh.
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> I really need to find out how to make irssi handle topics properly on channel join.
[03:54] <J-_> I have an Intel PRO wireless, and something else. I don't really know. But I just thought of something. there's a button slide thing that turns off wireless. I wonder if I turned it off...
[03:54] <J-_> on mistake that is
[03:54]  * J-_ checks
[03:55] <tonyyarusso> nah, apparently it's n-m itself.
[03:55] <tonyyarusso> (yeah, I thought to check my radio too)
[03:56] <pwnguin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Fela_Kuti
[04:01] <pwnguin> which one's the broken version?
[04:02] <DanaG> I posted a screenshot of what I have as my theme now:  www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png
[04:03]  * J-_ doesn't really know what hardware is enabled. I thought when I got this new lappy they gave me wireless cards. But, it may only have the Intel Wireless PRO in it.
[04:03] <pwnguin> ive been trying to find a satisfactory ubnutu palletted version of http://people.cis.ksu.edu/~jld5445/dualism-versus.png
[04:04] <pwnguin> i wish i'd saved that config though
[04:04] <DanaG> I like my theme.
[04:04] <pwnguin> your screenshot's a 404
[04:04] <J-_> so it's fixed now? (network-manager)
[04:04] <DanaG> ... statement of the obvious.
[04:04] <J-_> ...
[04:04]  * J-_ zings
[04:04] <DanaG> I mean, "I like my theme" is obvious.
[04:05] <DanaG> Okay, try again.
[04:05] <DanaG> wtf?
[04:05] <DanaG> Server seems to be case-sensitive.
[04:05] <pwnguin> heh
[04:05] <DanaG> Filename starts with a capital letter.
[04:06] <pwnguin> what's the black region?
[04:06] <DanaG> Oh, and I revised the colors in my system monitor applet (I really should file a bug about that.... "nice" load should be less prominent, not brighter.)
[04:06] <DanaG> That is a glitch of some sort.
[04:06] <DanaG> I used Gnome to take the screenshot, under compiz.\
[04:07] <pwnguin> while you're filling that bug
[04:07] <pwnguin> ask to make iowait visible ;)
[04:07] <pwnguin> now that hard drives are quiet
[04:08] <pwnguin> its hard to know why my desktop's unresponsive without checking top for the usual suspects
[04:08] <DanaG> And Cache should be made less bright, too.
[04:08] <pwnguin> setting iowait to yellow or something helps distinguish it from normal states
[04:09]  * DanaG still has that load cycle issue.
[04:09] <frank23> can anyone get gmail to show in konqueror (kde3)? I just get Loading...
[04:12] <J-_> is the fixed network-manager in teh repos?
[04:12] <J-_> I just updated, updated some security stuff
[04:12] <J-_> that's about it
[04:13] <secretlondon> different mirrors can be slower than others
[04:13] <J-_> yay 29 updates, wth!?
[04:14]  * DanaG wonders how to change the UUID of an HFS+ partition.
[04:14] <atrus> so this new totem version is supposed to be able to work with a mythtv backend. any pointers how to use that?
[04:15] <DanaG> I have two partitions with the same UUID (one a clone of the other, on a different device), so it thoroughly confuses gnome volume manager.
[04:18] <Caesar> Is there a hardy backports repository?
[04:18] <Caesar> Although this is more of a forward port...
[04:18] <Caesar> I'm going to have to build a python2.2 package for hardy for internal use, I figure I might as well put in backports or something...
[04:19] <secretlondon> i've just been offered n-m 0ubuntu1 after updating
[04:20] <secretlondon> 0ubuntu3 is supposed to be the fixed one
[04:20] <secretlondon> so I'm guessing the gb mirror has just broken ;)
[04:20] <frank23> Caesar: you could put it in a ppa
[04:21] <Caesar> frank23: I guess I could
[04:31] <J-_> 7 minutes to go onteh update. holy shmokes
[04:31] <J-_> on the*
[04:32] <J-_> hopefully no one is stealing my webernetz
[04:33] <NickPresta> Andre_Gondim_, are you around?
[04:34] <Andre_Gondim_> NickPresta, yeah
[04:35] <NickPresta> I just finished reading your latest blog post and perhaps I'm missing something but the latest links for Hardy Alpha 6 are 404's. Is this an issue with the site not uploading the images yet so have I missed something?
[04:36] <Andre_Gondim> NickPresta, will be in 6th
[04:36] <danage> hi! i am having problems enabling 3d effects on a mobility radeon 7500 (uses radeon drivers, i believe). anybody know how to troubleshoot? running compiz on command line gives me Checking for Xgl: not present.
[04:36] <NickPresta> Andre_Gondim, ah cheers. I am eagerly awaiting :)
[04:36] <Andre_Gondim> =]
[04:39] <frank23> can anyone get gmail to show in konqueror (kde3)? I just get Loading...
[04:47] <DanaG> DAMNIT, my keyboard got stuck again!
[04:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> what did u do?
[04:47] <DanaG> Held the arrow key to scroll in a document.
[04:47] <J-_> is there a way to reconfigure network-manager?
[04:47] <DanaG> Great, now my mouse thinks my ctrl key is stuck down!
[04:48] <DanaG> And ctrl-alt-backspace isn't working -- Xorg isn't catching the "terminate_server" keycode!
[04:48] <DanaG> Time to magic-sysrq the damn thing.
[04:49] <naught101> I just rebooted hardy, and now I have no access to X
[04:49] <naught101> anybody feel like giing me some pointers?
[04:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> naught101, kernel update?
[04:50] <naught101> apart from upgrading, I think the only thing I did to the system was add a scanner firmware
[04:50] <DanaG> Heh, "New restricted drivers in use" .... unless something magically swapped my Intel WiFi card for a Broadcom, I shouldn't have anything new!
[04:50] <naught101> [Hardy]TuTUXG: I have the latest in the repos
[04:51] <naught101> When I log in to a terminal, I get LOTS of permission denied to /dev/null/ errors
[04:53] <DanaG> bug 124406
[04:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124406 in ubuntu "Keyboard keys get stuck and repeat (Feisty, Gutsy) (dup-of: 194214)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124406
[04:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194214
[04:55] <naught101> would anyone know if not having permission to use /dev/null would break Xorg?
[04:57] <naught101> everytime I press <TAB> in bash I get a /dev/null/: permission denied error!
[04:59] <naught101> arrgh1
[05:01] <twb> Why don't the initrd scripts print any debugging information when I boot without quiet?
[05:02] <yuriy> hmm hardy not booting today
[05:02] <naught101> yuriy: what problem?
[05:03] <yuriy> naught101: it mostly starts up, i think maybe even X starts up actually, but then it hangs on a black screen
[05:03] <yuriy> sometimes if i then hard reboot it it boots but that doesn't seem to be working anymore
[05:04] <naught101> what happens when you log in to bash?
[05:04] <yuriy> might be an nvidia issue, haven't tried anything to stop it from starting X yet
[05:04] <naught101> I don't use nvidia, and I can't get into X either
[05:05] <naught101> anyone know what packages were updated today?
[05:06] <yuriy> ooh worked this time, i'll see if there are more updates or something
[05:06] <naught101> I updated ~147 packages, perhaps it was one of them, but I have no idea what they were :S
[05:11] <naught101> anybody know what packages were updated today that may have broken X?
[05:13] <naught101> please?
[05:20] <DanaG> naught101: if /dev/null isn't writable, that itself may break stuff.
[05:20] <DanaG> I don't know how to fix stuff, though.
[05:20] <DanaG> I mean, how to fix that.
[05:21] <Hydrogen> why in the world would it not be writable..
[05:23] <macogw> naught101: just a moment. i havent updated yet, so i can probably tell you what's in the list
[05:24] <desrt> /dev/null isn't writable by default at bootup
[05:24] <desrt> it's because the copy of it in /lib/udev/devices (the directory that seeds /dev) is accessible only to root
[05:24] <desrt> that doesn't change until udev trigger occurs
[05:25] <macogw> naught101: no X packages updated today for me....
[05:26] <macogw> there's some OOo brokenness waiting to be resolved before i can update though
[05:27] <naught101> Hydrogen: says it's not world writable.. would that be screwing stuff up?
[05:28] <naught101> desrt: any idea why udev would create /dev/null with crw-rw---- ?
[05:29] <Hydrogen> naught101: grep null /etc/udev/rules.d/40-permissions.rules
[05:31] <naught101> Hydrogen: Kernel=="NULL" MODE="0666"
[05:32] <Hydrogen> hmm
[05:32] <naught101> is there a better command line IRC client than tinyIRC? this sucks...
[05:32] <Hydrogen> thats interesting..
[05:32] <yuriy> naught101: irssi
[05:32] <naught101> how about I change it manually and try to start x
[05:33] <naught101> well, that stopped the /dev/null errors, but didn't fix X. it still won't start
[05:34] <naught101> GARTinit was unable to open /dev/agppart (no such file/dir)
[05:35] <naught101> it can't find any devices in /dev/dri/card**
[05:36] <naught101> (reading from x log with no copy paste)
[05:37] <twb> This line is wrong, it should use su, not sudo, because root is not necessarily in sudoers:
[05:37] <twb>  /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/30accessibility:        chroot /root sudo -u "$USERNAME" gconftool-2 "$@"
[05:40] <naught101> blah
[05:40] <naught101> did I miss anything?
[05:41] <J_-> network manager is still borked for me =S
[05:41] <J_-> wonder if there are any updagtes
[05:42] <naught101> were there any Xorg related upgrades in the last two days? ie. in the last ~170 updates?
[05:43] <twb> naught101: ask /var/log/dpkg
[05:43] <J_-> newp no more network-manager update for me this time around. hmm
[05:45] <J_-> can't even connect to my unsecured network. hehe tried both secured, and unsecured
[05:47] <J_-> maybe I'll reformat again, see if that works
[05:47] <J_-> OR is there a way to reconfigure network manager?
[05:48] <naught101> twb: thanks. now I'm even more confused :)
[05:55] <naught101> sigh... reboot time
[05:59] <naught101> bugger
[06:01] <kayce_> i know this channel is for hardy, but i cant get any answers anywhere else (either there is no one present or no one knows)
[06:01] <kayce_> is there anyone here that knows anything about gusty x server errors?
[06:02] <vinegaroon> what's the error?
[06:03] <kayce_> well, When i try to use "Login in a Window", i get the error "The x server failed. Perhaps it is not configured well."
[06:04] <vinegaroon> what's login in a window?
[06:04] <kayce_> ive tried 2 methods, and niether work, "sudo dpkg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg" and "xandr --auto"
[06:04] <kayce_> xrandr*
[06:05] <kayce_> its a window with a second login, such as so you dont have to log out of your user account and use root at same time
[06:05] <vinegaroon> ah
[06:05] <vinegaroon> I don't know anything about it
[06:06] <kayce_> ahh.. ok, thank you
[06:10] <naught101> why would my xorg.conf not include a driver for my videocard?
[06:10] <naught101> after I just dpkg-reconfigured it?
[06:11] <naught101> and/or is there a way to dpkg-reconfigure with more options than -plow?
[06:13] <RAOF> naught101: Because Xorg doesn't need xorg.conf.  As such, dpkg-reconfigure no longer has all the driver/screen/display/milk logic in it.
[06:14] <naught101> ROAF, so is it somewhere else?
[06:15] <naught101> my X isn't working at all, I'm trying to find out why
[06:15] <RAOF> naught101: The quickest way for us to help you is for you to pastebin /var/log/Xorg.0.log.
[06:15] <RAOF> That *should* contain enough info to help you.
[06:16] <naught101> RAOF: I can't... I'm in a terminal
[06:16] <RAOF> !info pastebinit
[06:16] <ubotu> pastebinit (source: pastebinit): command-line pastebin client. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.9-0ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 8 kB, installed size 84 kB
[06:16] <naught101> ok
[06:16] <RAOF> naught101: Tada!  Commandline pastebin access!
[06:17] <naught101> sweet
[06:17] <naught101> BTW, how does one follow links in manpages with man?
[06:20] <naught101> ROAF: http://pastebin.com/f35ece454
[06:22] <naught101> did it come through alright?
[06:24] <RAOF> Sorry;  I'm more likely to see it if you spell my nick correctly :)
[06:24] <RAOF> R_A_O_F :)
[06:24] <naught101> hehe, very sorry
[06:25] <RAOF> naught101: You appear to have only 7Mb of RAM dedicated to graphics.  Is this deliberate?
[06:26] <naught101> no, I haven't changed anything related to X since I installed just before alpha 5
[06:26] <RAOF> This would be a BIOS setting, most likely.
[06:26] <RAOF> Either that, or you've hit a bug.
[06:26] <naught101> I haven't touched the BIOS for months
[06:26] <naught101> I booted into X fine this morning
[06:26] <RAOF> I'd have a check, anyway, but that makes it more likely that you've hit a bug.
[06:27] <naught101> then I updated the last ~150 updates and rebooted
[06:27] <naught101> ok, I'll check the BIOS, back in a bit
[06:30] <danage> anybody else notice the network manager daemon package is broken?
[06:33] <naught101> RAOF: 8MB for video, I assume more shared, because it can't be changed in BIOS
[06:33] <RAOF> Oh.  Interesting.
[06:34] <naught101> this is a dell d410, with a p4m cpu..
[06:34] <naught101> and ~1300Mb RAM
[06:34] <RAOF> I'd file a bug.  Xorg is thinking that 7mb is all it has to play with; this clearly isn't going to support what you want, and it really wants an offscreen buffer, and...
[06:35] <RAOF> naught101: Bah!  I'm silly.
[06:35] <naught101> Can I manually set more memory?
[06:35] <naught101> huh?
[06:35] <RAOF> Probably the better thing to ask would be: why is /dev/agpgart missing? :)
[06:36] <naught101> yeah, I asked that in here before, but no-one answered
[06:36] <RAOF> Also; why is the DRI module not loading.
[06:36] <naught101> I assumed DRI wasn't loading because there was no card** in /dev/dri
[06:37] <naught101> and that that was because of the /dev/agppart missing
[06:37] <RAOF> Maybe; I'm not certain.
[06:37] <naught101> can I manually set up /dev/agpart?
[06:37] <naught101> agppart
[06:38] <naught101> gart..
[06:38] <RAOF> You could try "sudo modprobe -vvv agpgart".
[06:38] <RAOF> Also, pastebinning dmesg is likely to be useful.
[06:39] <naught101> ok
[06:39] <GhotiPhud> hey guys
[06:39] <GhotiPhud> having a couple issues after the updates today
[06:40] <naught101> also interestin was that my /home didn't mount manually with the UUID, I had to change it to /dev/sdb3. think that could be related?
[06:40] <GhotiPhud> this SCIM thing won't go away
[06:40] <twb> After enabling LDAP in /etc/pam.d and nsswitch.conf, sudo and su both hang on this Hardy a5 client.
[06:41] <RAOF> GhotiPhud: Join the scim-haters club.
[06:41] <GhotiPhud> also, I'm running the ati radeon driver and it won't let me enable desktop effects anymore
[06:41] <GhotiPhud> haha, at least it's not just me with the SCIM
[06:41] <naught101> RAOF: http://pastebin.com/f6a1cdc93
[06:42] <GhotiPhud> every time I try to run the desktop effects, it tells me to install fglrx driver
[06:43] <GhotiPhud> I can still run compiz --replace and everything works fine
[06:43] <naught101> agpgart is already listed in lsmod, RAOF
[06:45] <RAOF> naught101: Right.  That's not very informative, ut it shows agpgart being naughty.  File a bug, against the linux package, attaching dmesg.  Check out the kernel debugging guide, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies
[06:45] <danage> GhotiPhud: i have the same problem. what card?
[06:45] <naught101> damn
[06:46] <twb> GhotiPhud: did you ensure that your tainted driver is compiled against the current kernel and loaded?
[06:46] <twb> Actually I don't remember -- do tainted drivers need a kernel part, or do they just use a generic DRI kernel module?
[06:47] <RAOF> twb: They don't need to taint the kernel if they just use a DRI interface :)
[06:47] <danage> twb: how to tell which driver is loaded?
[06:47] <twb> RAOF: fair enough, but they're still tainted of themselves.
[06:47] <GhotiPhud> I have an X300 mobile
[06:47] <danage> GhotiPhud: me too
[06:47] <GhotiPhud> tainted driver?
[06:47] <twb> GhotiPhud: you need to check /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[06:47] <RAOF> twb: Absolutely.  But there's no need for them to taint the kernel :)
[06:47] <twb> The non-Free drivers "taint" your system.
[06:48] <GhotiPhud> haha
[06:48] <GhotiPhud> I'm running Radeon driver
[06:48] <danage> GhotiPhud: there's plenty of bugs related to that one. i think it's on the blacklist of fglrx
[06:48] <GhotiPhud> open source
[06:48] <twb> apt-get install vrms
[06:48] <danage> twb: no more xorg.conf in new x server
[06:48] <twb> danage: er, I sure have one.
[06:48] <danage> auto-detect
[06:48] <GhotiPhud> haha, xorg.conf is still needed
[06:48] <GhotiPhud> just less
[06:48] <danage> twb: i have one almost empty
[06:48] <danage> no gfx driver inside
[06:48] <danage> still, i got x running :)
[06:48] <twb> danage: so compare lspci PCI IDs to /usr/something/something/pci/*.ids
[06:49] <danage> ehh ok
[06:50] <danage> whats something and something in this
[06:50] <J-_laptop> http://pastebin.ca/930048 Can anyone take a look at that and see if there is anything wrong?
[06:50] <GhotiPhud> http://pastebin.com/m174af498
[06:50] <GhotiPhud> here's my xorg.conf
[06:50] <twb> danage: also obviously you can look at /var/log/Xorg.0.log where 0 is from DISPLAY=:0
[06:50] <danage> will put pastebin
[06:51] <twb> GhotiPhud: you're using the Free driver
[06:51] <GhotiPhud> yep
[06:51] <danage> my xorg.conf has no driver section
[06:51] <GhotiPhud> I know that
[06:51] <danage> http://pastebin.ca/930049
[06:52] <danage> however: radeon driver is loaded
[06:52] <RAOF> danage: Indeed.  Hotplug.
[06:52] <GhotiPhud> that's why it's weird that the Appearance menu is asking me to install fglrx
[06:52] <twb> GhotiPhud: the Free drivers probably don't support 3d acceleration in the newer (r3xx and up) GPUs
[06:52] <GhotiPhud> they do
[06:52] <twb> What, ati auto-selects the r300 driver now?
[06:52] <GhotiPhud> if I run compiz --replace everything works
[06:53] <GhotiPhud> it's just the appearance menu got screwed up after the update
[06:53] <danage> yeah so why does compiz not work
[06:53] <danage> i dont get it
[06:53] <danage> it tells me glx not loaded when i run it
[06:53] <danage> but aiglx is loaded
[06:53] <twb> danage: what does glxinfo | grep direct.rendering say?
[06:53] <danage> dri enabled
[06:53] <RAOF> GhotiPhud: It's probably either a bug in the desktop-effects thingy, or we're saving you from crazy radeon bugs on x300 cards.
[06:53] <danage> YES
[06:53] <danage> it says YES
[06:53] <twb> OK.
[06:54] <J-_laptop> =\
[06:54] <danage> :(
[06:54] <danage> i am sure i read the X300 was blacklisted in the fglrx driver
[06:54] <GhotiPhud> well, I've been running on my card for like a year or two
[06:54] <GhotiPhud> with 3D
[06:55] <GhotiPhud> so I don't know why it changed all of a sudden
[06:55] <GhotiPhud> i've never gotten the error
[06:55] <danage> yeah
[06:55] <danage> well you are using radeon anyways
[06:55] <twb> Yeah, you should be using Matrox
[06:55] <twb> They don't fuck up, nossir
[06:56] <danage> i read somewhere in a bug report it might be the order in which the drivers get loaded
[06:56] <danage> you could try that
[06:56] <GhotiPhud> where would I modify that?
[06:56] <danage> sec
[06:56] <twb> ARGH
[06:56] <twb> Why does sudo not want to work
[06:57] <danage> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22/+bug/144077/comments/20
[06:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144077 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[gutsy] Regression - "Desktop effects could not be enabled" on ATI Mobility Radeon" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[06:57] <danage> cool
[06:57] <danage> twb: i had the same problem yesterday, what does it do for you?
[06:57] <danage> turns out my user wasnt in the admin group
[06:58] <GhotiPhud> very odd
[06:58] <twb> danage: waits forever
[06:58] <twb> danage: you had this when using flat passwords?
[06:58] <GhotiPhud> I've never had a bit of trouble on gutsy
[06:59] <danage> nope, mine went back to the shell without doing anything
[06:59] <danage> must be another issue
[06:59] <twb> danage: oh, you just weren't in the sudoers file
[06:59] <twb> Totally different
[06:59] <danage> yeah
[06:59] <danage> twb: but do you know what my problem with 3dfx could be?
[06:59] <twb> Nope
[06:59] <twb> I don't buy from ATI or Nvidia, they are enemies of my Freedom
[07:00] <danage> buy intel instead!
[07:00] <RAOF> ATI are much better now.
[07:00] <twb> RAOF: no, they aren't.
[07:00] <twb> RAOF: they released *2d* documentation for an *obsolete* chipset.
[07:00] <vinegaroon> twb: they have released much more now
[07:00] <twb> vinegaroon: what, in the last two weeks?
[07:00] <GhotiPhud> yes
[07:01] <GhotiPhud> check out phoronix.con
[07:01] <GhotiPhud> phoronix.com
[07:01] <vinegaroon> yeah
[07:01] <GhotiPhud> they've been covering it all
[07:01] <vinegaroon> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=fosdem_08_bridgman&num=1
[07:01] <GhotiPhud> one of the amd developers frequents the forums there
[07:01] <vinegaroon> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=amd_tcore_release&num=1
[07:02] <twb> GhotiPhud: "catalyst driver" is Free software?
[07:02] <GhotiPhud> no
[07:02] <twb> So they *haven't* become better.
[07:02] <GhotiPhud> they're developing a new open driver from scratch
[07:02] <danage> help me please
[07:02] <danage> :)
[07:02] <twb> Oh, I see you were referring to a different article to the one that's currently at the top of the front page.
[07:02] <vinegaroon> my links is just some of the info on phoronix regarding amd's open source stuff
[07:03] <GhotiPhud> yeah
[07:03] <RAOF> twb: On the other hand, r500 3d specs, and r600 3d specs "soon".
[07:03] <twb> RAOF: yeah, it's when "soon" becomes "today" that I will start thinking about caring
[07:03] <RAOF> twb: Certianly, not as good as Intel, but much, much better than nvidia.
[07:03] <GhotiPhud> after the release of the new specs, textured video got added to the radeon drivers
[07:03] <GhotiPhud> still isn't used by default though
[07:04] <GhotiPhud> but it takes time
[07:04] <GhotiPhud> just recently the open drivers got all the features that I've been wanting, so I made the switch
[07:05] <GhotiPhud> it was really just Tv-out I was waiting for
[07:06] <vinegaroon> I have and nvidia card.. I would use nv or nouveau but I like neverball and a few other 3d games..
[07:06] <vinegaroon> an*
[07:06] <GhotiPhud> I've found that those run pretty well with the open source driver
[07:07] <GhotiPhud> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NjM2Mw
[07:07] <naught101> RAOF: can you check bug #199034 for me?
[07:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199034 in linux "X server will not start (agpgart)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199034
[07:07] <naught101> make sure it all came through properly
[07:07] <vinegaroon> I'm talking 'bout nvidia
[07:09] <GhotiPhud> I think nvidia's open drivers are a little behind since Amd started releasing specs
[07:11] <vinegaroon> very
[07:11] <vinegaroon> that's why I use the blob
[07:12] <GhotiPhud> if Ati's blob was as good as Nvidia's I might consider
[07:13] <twb> nvidia's Free drivers have been worse than ATI's Free drivers for a long time.
[07:13] <vinegaroon> If I had and AMD/ATI card I would run an open driver.
[07:13] <twb> Because nvidia's non-Free drivers mostly worked, so nobody worked on the Free alternatives.
[07:13] <savvas> what's blob?
[07:13] <twb> savvas: http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html
[07:14] <twb> Specifically, http://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#39
[07:15] <savvas> lyrics?!
[07:15] <savvas> nice :P
[07:15] <naught101> does ubuntu have any other GUIs apart from xorg?
[07:15] <twb> Xorg isn't a GUI, it's a windowing system.
[07:15] <naught101> twb, thanks, that's what I was looking for:
[07:15] <twb> You could argue that GNU Screen provides much of the same functionality.
[07:16] <naught101> does ubuntu have any windowing systems apart from xorg?
[07:16] <naught101> is it available in the repos?
[07:16] <twb> apt-get install scren.
[07:16] <twb> *screen
[07:16] <hydrogen> err
[07:16] <hydrogen> screen and xorg
[07:16] <hydrogen> are kind of complete opposites
[07:16] <hydrogen> screen is definatly not a gui
[07:16] <twb> It's a GUI
[07:16] <hydrogen> no
[07:16] <hydrogen> its not
[07:17] <twb> It's a *character cell* gui rather than a *raster* GUI.
[07:17] <hydrogen> it's missing the whole "graphical" part
[07:17] <hydrogen> it's a TUI maybe
[07:17] <naught101> hehe
[07:17] <hydrogen> textual user interface
[07:17] <naught101> can one use a mouse in it?
[07:17] <twb> TUI is a retroactive term used to denigrate portable and fast GUIs
[07:17] <twb> naught101: yep.
[07:17] <hydrogen> yes
[07:17] <hydrogen> but one can't  use pictures
[07:17] <naught101> right, that's probably good enough for me
[07:17] <twb> hydrogen: actually, w3m-img works fine through screen.
[07:18] <naught101> I don't need pictures, I just need a mouse
[07:18] <hydrogen> or you know.. any advances ones seen in computing in the last twenty years
[07:18] <twb> hydrogen: where "advanced" means "has buttons with gradients"
[07:19] <hydrogen> I'm not sure if ubuntu/debian packages it
[07:19] <hydrogen> but there used to be a Y windowing server
[07:19] <twb> Yeah, it's pretty much dead.
[07:19] <hydrogen> I don't think it ever got that far though
[07:19] <savvas> is it possible to install a language using the menu system -> administration -> language support?
[07:19] <twb> People stopped caring about it, like the framebuffer.
[07:19] <hydrogen> they have the "Y Sound Server" still packaged, not sure if thats related
[07:19] <naught101> huh... screen won't run 'cause it can't find any "PTYs"
[07:20] <twb> naught101: that's probably because you're still root, but your tty is owned by you.
[07:20] <naught101> nope
[07:20] <naught101> I am me
[07:20] <twb> Then it's because /dev/pts isn't mounted or something equally horrific.
[07:20] <naught101> grrr
[07:21] <naught101> Xserver problems really suck
[07:21] <twb> You can always use vesa
[07:21] <naught101> pts is mounted
[07:21] <naught101> twb what's vesa?
[07:22] <twb> VESA is a standard interface for GPUs
[07:22] <twb> Everything since about 2000 supports VESA, and modern cards will "Just Work" with it.
[07:22] <naught101> go on..
[07:22] <naught101> how do I use it?
[07:22] <twb> Change the Driver line in the Device stanza of your xorg.conf
[07:22] <twb> Note that VESA offers NO 2d or 3d acceleration.
[07:23] <naught101> hrrm...
[07:23] <twb> When you say "xserver sucks" you really mean "the hideous 3d-accelerated driver"
[07:23] <naught101> Driver "vesa" ?
[07:24] <naught101> I didn't say xserver sucks
[07:24]  * DanaG wonders how good or bad ATI (open or closed, doesn't matter too much to me) will be by June.
[07:24]  * DanaG thinks nvidia is lame for not offering native-res framebuffer.
[07:25] <naught101> vesa didn't work... no valid modes
[07:25] <twb> DanaG: it doesn't matter to you *now*.
[07:25] <DanaG> I'm currently on nvidia.
[07:25] <twb> I suggest you read RMS' _The Right to Read_ to see an example of the ramifications of accepting non-Free software
[07:26] <naught101> apocalyse now
[07:27] <DanaG> But at least I'd be getting a blob from somebody who's now making an effort to un-blobify.
[07:27] <GhotiPhud> I have a pretty dated ATI card, but under the free drivers everything mostly works
[07:27] <GhotiPhud> if you're not looking for the latest and greatest card, then ATI might be good
[07:28] <GhotiPhud> Nvidia's probably a safer bet right now
[07:28] <naught101> RAOF: you there?
[07:28] <GhotiPhud> poke around Phoronix in June
[07:29] <DanaG> I currently have a 128MB GeForce Go 7600.  For the next thing, I'll want something not weaker for its generation than mine was for that generation.
[07:30] <DanaG> Oh, and if that Heron is accepted as default, I am soooooo getting a laptop-lid skin of it.
[07:31] <GhotiPhud> how old is this current laptop?
[07:31] <GhotiPhud> cause that doesn't seem like a "weak" card at all
[07:31] <GhotiPhud> probably blows mine out of the water
[07:31] <DanaG> By not weaker, I'm being a bit silly.  I won't want to go from a 7600 to an 8400, for example.
[07:32] <GhotiPhud> yeah
[07:32] <DanaG> EVen if 8400 was as good as the 7600, it'd be weaker for its time than 7600 was for that time.
[07:32] <GhotiPhud> so upper middle class of the graphics card
[07:32] <GhotiPhud> lol
[07:33] <DanaG> Yeah.
[07:33] <twb> Bah.
[07:33] <twb> What do you need a GPU for at all, except games?
[07:33] <GhotiPhud> as far as ATI vs Nvidia, whatever works at the time, all the ati stuff is up in the air right now
[07:34] <GhotiPhud> games
[07:34] <twb> And all the "I need a fast GPU" games don't run on GNU/Linux anyway
[07:34] <GhotiPhud> dual boot
[07:35] <DanaG> Fine, I'll boot Windows for them.
[07:35] <GhotiPhud> that's what I do
[07:35] <DanaG> Besides, Wine + PulseAudio == ... well, it doesn't work.
[07:35] <twb> So why not just use the onboard GPU while running Linux?
[07:35] <GhotiPhud> I enjoy the linux experience more for the desktop though
[07:36] <DanaG> Mine doesn't have an onboard.
[07:36] <GhotiPhud> why pay for the card if you only get to use it every once in a while?
[07:36] <twb> Bleh.
[07:36] <twb> GhotiPhud: well, precisely.
[07:36] <DanaG> At least, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.  Gateway M685, also known as NX860 series.
[07:36] <GhotiPhud> haha
[07:36] <GhotiPhud> wine is improving quite nicely also
[07:37] <twb> It seems to me that if I were a gamer weenie, I'd buy a game console rather than dual boot, because then at least I'd have a few years of not having to buy hardware upgrades just to run new games
[07:37] <DanaG> I could try booting without the MXM card, though.
[07:37] <GhotiPhud> I can play Command and Conquer Generals on it now
[07:37] <GhotiPhud> new games?
[07:37] <GhotiPhud> what are those
[07:37] <twb> GhotiPhud: eh, the only thing I've EVER got wine to run is evidence tracking software
[07:37] <GhotiPhud> I shop in the bargain bin
[07:37] <DanaG> I haven't used any recent games.  I tried Crysis and amused myself at how slideshow-ey it was.
[07:38] <twb> GhotiPhud: "new" means "since Windows stopped being a DOS shell"
[07:38] <DanaG> s/ey/ish/
[07:38] <GhotiPhud> haha, okay maybe a bit more recent than that
[07:39] <GhotiPhud> I actually had to make a windows 98 VM just to play a game I found in my attic
[07:41] <twb> Honestly, I can't be bothered jumping through all the hoops necessary to babysit a Windows system (and all the ridiculously overspecced hardware) if the only benefit is that I get to play 3d games.
[07:41] <DanaG> SimCopter..... DirectX 3  (yes, 3!) game.
[07:42] <GhotiPhud> awesome
[07:42] <GhotiPhud> Starship Titanic
[07:42] <DanaG> And crappy graphics even for its time!
[07:42] <GhotiPhud> haha
[07:42] <GhotiPhud> Starship Titanic was written by Douglas Adams
[07:42] <GhotiPhud> same guy who wrote Hitchhiker's Guide
[07:43] <twb> No, it was written by Terry Gillam
[07:43] <twb> Adams worked on the computer game
[07:43] <twb> Argh, getent group hangs
[07:44] <DanaG> heh, dd from /dev/zero to /dev/null with bs 1M: 5.4GB/sec
[07:44] <Sebastian> Why do I suddenly have SCIM in my systray (and cannot disable it)?
[07:44] <GhotiPhud> join the club
[07:44] <twb> DanaG: why would you do that?
[07:45] <pwuertz> hi... I would like to test a fixed version of python-scipy... someone wrote an answer to the bug-report: "A fixed version is now being tested in my PPA."
[07:45] <pwuertz> how to find these packages?
[07:45] <DanaG> Curiosity, that's why.  And randomness.
[07:45] <pwuertz> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/python-scipy/+bug/187004
[07:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 187004 in python-scipy "python-scipy uninstallable (needs gfortran transition)" [High,In progress]
[07:46] <GhotiPhud> interesting facts there twb
[07:46] <GhotiPhud> have you played it?
[07:47] <twb> GhotiPhud: hmm?
[07:47] <DanaG> Is Wine un-broken yet?  I'm currently using the Gutsy version.
[07:47] <GhotiPhud> you were saying that Starship Titanic was written by Terry Gillam
[07:47] <twb> Is anyone else here using LDAP?
[07:48] <DanaG> Hardy one in repos is 0.9.56-0ubuntu1
[07:48] <twb> I am having Grief
[07:50] <DanaG> DAGFLABBIT, damn keyboard got stuck again!
[07:51] <DanaG> bug 194214
[07:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194214 in xorg-server "Keys get "stuck" down" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194214
[07:52] <DanaG> My current theme: www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot.png
[07:55] <twb> I have come to the conclusion that themes are just a way to make people waste countless otherwise-productive hours tweaking chrome
[07:56] <DanaG> Actually, this is one I've been using for a while, and haven't felt a need to change.
[07:56] <twb> I suppose so.
[07:56] <DanaG> And it's much more cheerful than a cloudy, dark-blue one based on the same GTK engine with the Nodoka windeco.
[07:57] <twb> OTOH, I spent like two weeks trying to work out how to get a usable #000-backgrounded gtkrc-2.0
[07:59] <J-_> How can I see what my laptop mac address is? my router isn't picking it up. It did before, but it isn't now.
[07:59] <Unksi> ifconfig
[07:59] <twb> Routers don't "pick up" IP addresses.
[07:59] <twb> They either assign them to DHCP clients or are told in advance what to expect (static routing).
[08:00] <J-_> I said mac.
[08:00] <twb> Oops, MAC address.
[08:00] <J-_> yup
[08:00]  * twb needs more coffee.
[08:00] <twb> If you're using DHCP, the MAC is included in the DHCPEQUEST
[08:00] <twb> *DHCPREQUEST
[08:01] <DanaG> Oh heck, I'll set my thing back to the blue theme, momentarily, and screenshot it.
[08:03] <DanaG> Odd.... my metacity theme doesn't change with my other parts of my theme.
[08:05] <savvas> you broke it!
[08:05] <savvas> :P
[08:06] <DanaG> www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-dark.png
[08:07] <DanaG> Looks nice, but it was severely affecting my mood.  I changed to the orange one, and my mood changed literally instantly.
[08:07] <DanaG> Not gradually.  Instantly!
[08:08] <DanaG> Unfortunately, the Nodoka theme engine and windeco really don't look as good in orange.
[08:09] <DanaG> EEh, gtk is fine, windeco is not.
[08:11] <zniavre> :o)à
[08:13] <DanaG> huh?
[08:14] <RAOF> DanaG: I find it (gtk) looks quite good with a sortof slightly-tanned-flesh main & maroon highlights.
[08:14] <DanaG> The Nodoka one?
[08:14] <RAOF> Yah.
[08:14] <DanaG> Heh, whenever I say that name, I can't help but think of the character from the Negima series (multiple mangas and multiple animes).
[08:15] <DanaG> Hmm, do you have a screenshot somewhere?
[08:15] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I just checked out the latest murrine-human.  Looks pretty good now; last time I tried it (2 days or so ago) it was ugly.
[08:16] <DanaG> In fact, the progress bars remind me of candy, for some odd reason.
[08:17] <RAOF> DanaG: http://cooperteam.net/Nodoka.png
[08:18] <DanaG> Hmm, interesting combination.
[08:18] <RAOF> Teh awn bar is ugly; I'm playing with it currently.
[08:19] <savvas> DanaG: http://img111.imageshack.us/my.php?image=savvasblackrs8.png
[08:19] <savvas> :)
[08:19] <DanaG> OOh, nifty.  If that Heron becomes the default wallpaper, I am soooooo getting a case skin of it.
[08:19] <RAOF> In fact, the awn bar might just die completely.
[08:19] <savvas> the heron wallpaper made it in alpha 5
[08:19] <naught101> RAOF: can you check bug #199034 for me?
[08:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199034 in linux "X server will not start (agpgart)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199034
[08:19] <DanaG> I've never found any dock apps for Windows or Linux I've liked.
[08:19] <savvas> it was default in live cd, but orange :\
[08:20] <DanaG> I'm using the not-bloody version now.
[08:20] <DanaG> WHenever I see the name Nodoka, I think of this:  http://avetremaevrin.deviantart.com/art/Cuddle-Time-72504785  -- especially the blue color.
[08:21] <RAOF> naught101: You obviously didn't read the kernel bug reporting guidelines I linked :(
[08:21] <DanaG> Here's the exact orange I set:  #E48A34
[08:22] <DanaG> I'm also using the Tropic windeco with the red-close-button line disabled.
[08:22] <RAOF> naught101: Given that you haven't added the output of lspci, uname -a, etc.
[08:23] <RAOF> naught101: Once more, with feeling: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeamBugPolicies <- The top 4 lines, particularly.
[08:25] <RAOF> DanaG: Scim has a _latex_ mode?
[08:25] <RAOF> WTH?
[08:25] <DanaG> Yup.
[08:25] <DanaG> It does things like this:
[08:25] <RAOF> With what porpoise?
[08:25] <savvas> is anyone using nvidia pci express card?
[08:26] <RAOF> savvas: Yo.
[08:26] <DanaG> I R
[08:26] <savvas> RAOF: post your xorg.conf in pastebin.ca please
[08:26] <DanaG> argh, it's not working.
[08:26] <savvas> or anywhere
[08:26] <DanaG> X ≹ Y
[08:27] <DanaG> Trigger it with backslash.
[08:27] <savvas> what's that ugly looking sign? :P
[08:27] <DanaG> Not greater than or less than.
[08:27] <naught101> RAOF: ok, must have missed that. thanks
[08:27] <RAOF> Not greater than or less than.
[08:27] <RAOF> Not to be confused with "equal too".
[08:27]  * DanaG is ∃
[08:27] <DanaG> Is "there exists"
[08:27] <savvas> you belong in a group? :p
[08:28] <savvas> ah
[08:28] <naught101> what's the difference between that and equals?
[08:28] <RAOF> naught101: X may be incomparable with Y.
[08:28] <savvas> naught101: it means they can be equal or not comparable :)
[08:28] <RAOF> (We may be in a lattice, rather than a totally ordered set)
[08:28] <DanaG> Z = jωL
[08:28] <DanaG> Handy for typing up stuff like that.
[08:28] <savvas> haven't used math symbols in  years :)
[08:28] <RAOF> DanaG: That's kinda cool.  Easy to set up?
[08:29] <savvas> never required anything in med school :p
[08:29] <DanaG> Just set it to Latex mode, and hit backslash.
[08:29] <DanaG> Then start typing stuff to explore.
[08:29] <RAOF> I may reinstall scim to check this out.
[08:29] <DanaG> X ⋛ Y
[08:29] <savvas> is anyone going to upload their /etc/X11/xorg.conf ? :(
[08:29] <DanaG> What's THAT one for?
[08:30] <DanaG> Greater than, equal, or less than.
[08:31] <savvas> ∓ ±
[08:31] <savvas> :p
[08:31] <RAOF> savvas: http://pastebin.com/f448b857d
[08:31]  * DanaG goes to abuse the US International (AltGr Deadkeys) layout, with unicode numpad:
[08:31] <RAOF> I don't think it'll do you much good, though.  That's the output of "sudo nvidia-xconfig --twinview"
[08:31] <savvas> ty :)
[08:31] <DanaG> ←↖↑↗→↘↓↙
[08:33] <DanaG> Oh, and right-to-left is fun to abuse, but remember to insert "pop directional formatting" characters or you'll royally screw up your IM app's logs.
[08:33] <DanaG> ‮‏Backwards!‬‬
[08:34] <RAOF> DanaG: No, it isn't :P
[08:34] <DanaG> Not using Pidgin, I assume?
[08:34] <RAOF> At least, not in my irssi terminal.
[08:34] <DanaG> Aah.
[08:34] <DanaG> Here's what I see (retyped, not copied and pasted):
[08:34] <RAOF> DanaG: You're using pidgin for irc?
[08:34] <DanaG>                                                                                                                                     !sdrawkcaB :DanaG (12:33:46 AM)
[08:35] <savvas> △ABC ≅ △DEF
[08:35] <savvas> :)
[08:35] <DanaG> Yup, it consolidates all my chat stuff to one app.
[08:35] <Unksi> DanaG: i user irssi+bitlbee for the same :)
[08:35] <Unksi> *use
[08:36] <savvas> DanaG ∉ Ubuntu
[08:36] <savvas> :p
[08:36] <naught101> pity it can't do voice
[08:36] <DanaG> I don't remember that symbol.  I know I used it in my CSC141 ("Discrete Structures") class.
[08:37] <DanaG> Not within a set?
[08:38] <RAOF> Yup.
[08:38] <RAOF> "Not contained in"
[08:38] <RAOF> Or rather "not a member of"
[08:38] <DanaG> Aah.
[08:38] <savvas> DanaG: is not an element of :)
[08:39] <savvas> i mixed it up before with the inversed E
[08:39] <DanaG> Oh, hint for SCIM: vertical lookup table with hint.
[08:40] <DanaG> Or horizontal.
[08:42] <cwillu> anybody else running into wireless issues (other than the library issue that was fixed a few hours ago?)
[08:42] <savvas> RAOF: you're using hardy? were all those settings automatically set up in xorg.conf?
[08:42]  * DanaG throws a(n) ✈ at somebody.
[08:44] <RAOF> savvas: Using hardy, yes.  I manually added the synaptics thing, 'cause it broke some time in the past.
[08:44] <RAOF> savvas: All the nvidia-specific stuff was got by running "sudo nvidia-xconfig --twinview"
[08:45] <DanaG> I posted my xorg.conf at my csc web space.  www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/xorg.conf  (I use only one screen.)
[08:45] <DanaG> I love using my touchpad -- in fact, if I had to get a desktop, I'd probably get a keyboard with a touchpad!
[08:45] <DanaG> No RSI from it, even if I use it way too much.
[08:46] <cwillu> weird
[08:46] <cwillu> wlan0_rename: auth with ap...
[08:46] <cwillu> followed by a timeout
[08:46] <cwillu> followed by a auth frame received, but not in auth state, ignored
[08:46] <cwillu> http://cwillu.com:8080/dmesg/
[08:46] <DanaG> two-finger scrolling, two- and three-finger tapping without 1-finger doing anything.  Middle button emulation.
[08:47] <savvas> thanks RAOF
[08:47] <DanaG> What's "MultisampleCompatibility"?
[08:48] <DanaG> Oh yeah, is there a way to tell the nvidia driver to ALWAYS assume any connected CRT can do at least 1024x768x60, without overriding the max also?
[08:48] <DanaG> Some projectors at my school have Pin 9 missing.
[08:49] <DanaG> So... nvidia assumes they can only do 800x600.
[08:49] <cwillu> DanaG, add a mode and disable validation?
[08:50] <DanaG> Oh yeah, I figured out something interesting about suspend with nvidia: it works better if you have the video card in 3D mode before suspend.  Even a 'DISPLAY=:0 glxinfo" will do it, I think.
[08:50] <cwillu> should be able to play around with xrandr and see what works
[08:52] <DanaG> Oh yeah, Pin 9 is EDID pin, though you probably already knew that.
[08:52] <DanaG> s/EDID/DDC/
[08:53] <cwillu> radeon driver has 'ignoreEDID', which doesn't help you
[08:53] <cwillu>  --custom-edid=CUSTOM-EDID, --no-custom-edid may help
[08:54] <cwillu> man nvidia-xconfig
[08:55] <DanaG> Oh, that's an idea: dump the EDID of a better monitor, and override the CRT output with it.
[08:56] <cwillu> there's a disable-edid option there too
[08:56] <cwillu> which might be more what you want
[08:57] <cwillu> it'll still autodetect, but it won't override what you specifiy iirc
[08:57] <Raspberry> Ok -- there's a new problem with Brightness settings on my laptop since Alpha5 :)
[08:58] <Raspberry> when adjusting the brightness on the appletor with the function keys on the keyboard -- it shows that the brightness is being moved up and down, but the screen doesn't get brighter or darker
[08:59] <Raspberry> This worked fine until last Thursday or Friday ... the exact same time that the display turning back on when resuming from suspend started working :)
[09:02]  * DanaG just recently had a brightness issue FIXED:  bug 121833  (yes, I've memorized the number.)
[09:02] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121833 in linux "LCD backlight turns off when between discrete levels, both from hotkeys and from dim-on-idle." [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/121833
[09:28] <Raspberry> This new SCIMthing is stupid
[09:28] <Raspberry> it's hot key is SHIFT+SPACEBAR
[09:29] <Raspberry> WTF... so while I'm typing and trying to capitalize things it shifts my keyboard layout to RAW
[09:29] <Raspberry> it's some new standard package as far as Ican tell
[09:30] <RAOF> Raspberry: Yes.  This is being disucssed in #ubuntu-devel as we speak.  Welcome to Hardy.
[09:30] <Raspberry> I'm not pissed that it's in there
[09:30] <Raspberry> I'm just letting you know -- it seems to be pretty impractical
[09:30] <RAOF> Indeed.
[09:31] <RAOF> As such, the discussion is "why has it suddenly been turned on for everyone, and what can we do about it?"
[09:31] <Raspberry> :P
[09:32] <Raspberry> I just quit SCIM  and it killed all my KDE apps :P
[09:32]  * Raspberry is using Konversation
[09:52] <loa> Can someone explain why Update manager request partial update.
[09:52] <loa> What is it?
[09:52] <loa> It request for example firefox, but i didn't have this package!
[09:55] <Raspberry> It's because it's updating the whole system with changes to the naming / structure of packages
[09:55] <Raspberry> Hardy is still in Alpha and there are things changing
[09:56] <loa> wow)
[09:56] <loa> next alpha you mean this?
[09:59] <cwillu> loa, no, just big enough changes (bigger than you'd get in a released ubuntu) that the normal update behaviour isn't enough to fix it
[10:00] <zeno> hi a kernel update just downloaded (guessing that did it) and now sudo modprobe ndiswrapper gives the error: FATAL: Module ndiswrapper not found.  any ideas how to fix?
[10:02] <loa> sudo apt-cache search ndiswrapper
[10:02] <loa> and install
[10:07] <zeno> loa: it says it is installed
[10:08] <savvas> grrr
[10:08] <savvas> (wrong window)
[10:16] <mrtimdog> What's the X command to change the keymap on a running X server?
[10:24] <muszek> hi
[10:25] <muszek> anyone else got problems with upgrading open office (yesterday's update)
[10:25] <muszek> openoffice.org: Depends: openoffice.org-writer2latex  but it is not installable
[10:26] <muszek> it's not in repos: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=openoffice.org-writer2latex&searchon=names&suite=hardy&section=all
[10:41] <Raspberry> muszek: install everything but the openoffice.org package
[10:41] <muszek> Raspberry: ok, thanks.
[10:41] <Raspberry> muszek: go into the synaptic package manager and install the openoffice.org-base base-core write calc .... so on and so forth
[10:41] <Raspberry> that package is still missing I think
[10:43] <muszek> I market every other package to update and synaptic wants to _remove_ package openoffice.org
[10:45] <Raspberry> that's fine
[10:45] <Raspberry> it's not a valid package right now
[10:46] <Raspberry> I am a bit confused though because OpenOffice is still branded as 2.3 but if you go to About it says it's 2.4
[10:48] <Ng> Raspberry: it's a pre-reease of 2.4 atm
[10:48] <Ng> "pre-release" rather
[10:48] <cwillu> muszek, it probably asked for a partial upgrade before?
[10:48] <muszek> cwillu: yeah, it did
[10:48] <cwillu> muszek, that'd be why
[10:48] <Raspberry> well let me go into gimp and make them a new splash screen :p
[10:49] <muszek> cwillu: so I shouldn't touch it?
[10:49] <cwillu> muszek, restart the update manager, and do the partial upgrade
[10:49] <muszek> cwillu: and leave OO.o stuff not updated, right?
[10:50] <cwillu> muszek, no, tell it to do the partial upgrade, it won't give you any further choices, other than removing obsolete packages after its done
[10:50] <cwillu> I don't mean 'update with things unchecked'
[10:51] <cwillu> you should get a mini version of the dialog you get when you do a full upgrade between releases
[10:51] <muszek> what's this "partial upgrade" thing anyway?  I don't recall seeing it before (been using pre-release versions since after I dist-upgraded from hoary).
[10:52] <cwillu> muszek, it's been common for a few releases now, although alot of people  just let aptitude or apt-get muck around instead :p
[10:52] <muszek> but I never dist-upgraded that early, maybe that's why
[10:53] <J-_laptop> I have a bug, well not really a bug. But, while adding a location to the time applet for gnome-panel, I add it as my home location, and set the weather, and 12h format, when there's a mouse-over it still shows 24h format.
[10:53] <J-_laptop> not sure if it was intended to be like that
[10:53] <cwillu> J-_laptop, post it on launchpad, see what they say
[10:54] <muszek> J-_laptop: God gave us 24h format for a reason :)
[10:54] <cwillu> amusement?
[10:54] <J-_laptop> actually sorry, its "sunrise/ sunset" time
[10:54] <J-_laptop> =P
[10:56] <J-_laptop> oh noes, 25 minutes til my battery runs out and im comfy =(
[10:57] <J-_laptop> oh yeah, I also fixed my wireless issue. it was really a fix, but a stupid doing on my part.
[10:57] <J-_laptop> wasn't*
[10:58] <cwillu> which?
[10:59] <J-_laptop> it pretty much came down to booting hardy live, and see if it was a driver error, or something broken as a last resort, and thankfully it worked and figured out what Idid wrong. I was putting my routers password into the passphrase or key password when trying to connect. lol
[10:59] <cwillu> fooey, that doesn't help me with why mine doesn't work :p
[10:59] <cwillu> ah well, bed time :p
[10:59] <J-_laptop> =) have a good one
[11:00] <J-_laptop> im laying in bed =D
[11:08] <J-_laptop> nice! xmoto plays awesome in hardy with compiz on
[11:10] <naught101> is there any way to downgrade linux-image-generic with the standard repos?
[11:15] <Stonekeeper> hi. Can anyone confirm that 8.04 will come with a stable openvz kernel? thanks.
[11:16] <astan> hi. is there a guide for temporarily substituting a kernel driver module with a version from upstream git (linus' tree)? i need to temporarily test the arcmsr (RAID controller) driver from git to see if a bug has been fixed. i'm running hardy.
[11:16] <astan> it should compile well with the 2.6.25 ubuntu kernel i'm running.
[11:17] <astan> e.g. what to i need to aptitude install first to be able to build the driver, and is it then just a matter of backing up the current one and install the new one? or do i need to run some command after the new driver is installed?
[11:20] <naught101> RAOF: you know how you said that I should file the bug under 'linux'?
[11:21] <naught101> I just tried using older kernels that are lying around on my machine, and the same thing happened
[11:22] <naught101> back in a bit
[11:23] <mesilliac> does anyone have a working wacom drawing tablet in hardy?
[11:23] <naught101> mesilliac: i did have, a bamboo, but now xorg isn't working, so no, I don't
[11:26] <mesilliac> ahh... gone... was going to ask if it's possible to get it working without installing the new wacom X driver manually.
[11:35] <naught101> hrrm..
[11:35] <Zic> Alpha 6, we are waiting you :}
[11:40] <mesilliac> naught101: did you have to manually install the newest wacom X driver to get your tablet to work? or was it possible with the driver in hardy?
[11:41]  * naught101 goes off to see if linux-386 is any different to linux-generic
[11:41] <naught101> mesilliac: pretty sure it worked straight up
[11:41] <naught101> what tablet do you have?
[11:42] <mesilliac> okay thanks. guess i'll mess around a bit. It's a graphire bluetooth, so it shouldn't work, but I managed to piece together some hacks for gutsy which got it working. Was harder to make it work in hardy though :(
[11:42] <naught101> yeah, mine worked slightly better in gutsy I think
[11:43] <naught101> I haven't used it much in hardy
[11:43] <naught101> actually... come to think of it, maybe I haven't used it in hardy at all...
[11:43] <mesilliac> I had trouble getting X to load the wacom driver for it. It kept defaulting to using it as a normal pointer (without pressure sensitivity etc)
[11:56] <AutoMatriX> hello ubuworld
[12:03] <naught101> is there any way I can find out which package installs the agpgart module?
[12:04] <void^> naught101: the kernel package
[12:05] <naught101> void^: that's what I thought
[12:06] <naught101> if I was running fine on 2.6.24-7>10-generic, then installed -11-, and things with modules started stuffing up, would it normally fix it to go back to a previous kernel?
[12:07] <void^> you can always boot the previous kernel, unless you actually uninstalled it
[12:07] <naught101> void^: right, but I booted the previous kernel, and the problem remained
[12:08] <naught101> does that point to the problem NOT being with the kernel?
[12:08] <naught101> but with something else that was updated?
[12:12] <void^> just read the backlog a little. i think this suggests the problem is in the X driver.
[12:12] <naught101> backlog/
[12:12] <naught101> ?
[12:13] <naught101> I've tried with intel and vesa
[12:14] <Turski> hi
[12:14] <Turski> having a problem
[12:14] <Turski> getting this when trying to start FF3:
[12:14] <Turski> Inconsistency detected by ld.so: ../sysdeps/i386/dl-machine.h: 550: elf_machine_rel_relative: Assertion `((reloc->r_info) & 0xff) == 8' failed!
[12:17] <void^> naught101: did you figure out what messed up your /dev/null permissions? perhaps some other device node permissions are also wrong..
[12:18] <naught101> void^: no, I haven't. I noted that in my bug report, but it's odd, because udev seems to set it correctly
[12:19] <naught101> or at least, the udev rule is correct
[12:19] <void^> and X fails to start with vesa driver?
[12:20] <naught101> correct
[12:20] <naught101> perhaps I should try with i810
[12:21] <void^> did you pastebin the Xorg.log with vesa somewhere?
[12:21] <naught101> WHOA!
[12:22] <naught101> I got a mouse with i810
[12:22] <naught101> void^: check bug #199034 for the xorg.log
[12:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199034 in linux "X server will not start (agpgart)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199034
[12:24] <void^> probably an udev issue altogether
[12:25] <naught101> I tried dpkg-reconfigure udev, no luck
[12:26] <void^> does 'udevtrigger && udevsettle' create /dev/agpgart?
[12:31] <naught101> void^: nope
[12:31] <naught101> just getting the package list together for the upgrade
[12:32] <void^> naught101: and there's no agpgart in /sys/bus/pci/drivers?
[12:34] <naught101> void^: correct, there isn't.
[12:44] <naught101> ping
[12:44] <naught101> whoops
[12:46] <naught101> void^: doing that udevtrigger+settle DID reset /dev/null to 0660, instead of 0666
[12:49] <naught101> I uploaded all my updates that may have caused the problem to the bug
[12:50] <void^> well, that doesn't make sense at all if you udev rules say 0666 :/
[12:51] <naught101> mmmmm
[12:52] <naught101> do you think I should add udev(linux) to the affectslist for the bug?
[12:52] <naught101> udev(ubuntu) I mean
[12:54] <Turski> can someone help me with that firefox's error?
[12:56] <naught101> Turski: don't know how, sorry. have you submitted a bug?
[12:57] <Turski> no
[12:57] <Turski> but isn't that something else than firefox-s bug?
[12:58] <naught101> no idea. searched for it on the 'net?
[12:59] <Turski> yeh
[13:02] <naught101> I'd submit it as a firefox bug, then someone there will be able to tell you whether it is realted to something else or not
[13:02] <naught101> related
[13:03] <Turski> fist i'm trying the windows-way to fix problem :P
[13:03] <Turski> reboot -->
[13:05] <muszek> I though that Windows way was "reinstall the OS" :)
[13:06] <Turski> haha, wtf :D
[13:06] <Turski> it worked :D
[13:07] <zniavre> hello
[13:07] <zniavre> do you know how to activate the agp fast write on hardy ?
[13:07] <zniavre> the gutsy way does not work
[13:21]  * naught101 is going to bed...
[13:25] <GijsK> hello all. I'm trying to update 7.10 to Hardy. I ran update-manager -d in gnome terminal, but it seems to hang when trying to verify the gpg signature of the tar.gz it downloaded.
[13:25] <GijsK> when I manually try to verify it, gpg complains that it doesn't have the public key
[13:25] <DanglyBits> when will alpha 6 be avialable?
[13:25] <GijsK> what should I be doing to fix this? I've tried googling around, but I haven't found anything that seemed useful...
[13:26] <savvas> if you have any alpha, DanglyBits just update
[13:29] <dejv_ntb> hello
[13:30] <Zampaktu> hi fellow ubuntu users, i am starting to test the hardy herron release, but i would like to learn a little more about interpreting trace files from utilities such as strace or truss. does anybody have some documentation that could help? thanks
[13:35] <savvas> GijsK: sudo apt-key list
[13:35] <savvas> pub   1024D/437D05B5 2004-09-12
[13:35] <savvas> uid                  Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com>
[13:36] <savvas> sub   2048g/79164387 2004-09-12
[13:36] <savvas> do you have this one?
[13:37] <GijsK> savvas: yes.
[13:38] <savvas> same numbers in pub and sub GijsK ?
[13:38] <GijsK> yup, exactly the same.
[13:38] <GijsK> would it matter that I start update-manager from a sudo -s terminal?
[13:39] <savvas> weird, maybe the apt mirrors are missing some keys? :P
[13:39] <savvas> there was another one that complained a couple of days ago about it
[13:39] <GijsK> hmm.
[13:42] <GijsK> ah, but looks like apt-key has a different key list from gpg
[13:42] <GijsK> which is, well, a little bit lame.
[13:42] <GijsK> (gpg --list-keys is empty)
[13:43] <savvas> sudo apt-key export ftpmaster@ubuntu.com >> ~/Desktop/ubuntu.key
[13:43] <savvas> :)
[13:43] <GijsK> sweet, was poking about for exactly that :)
[13:43] <savvas> gpg --import ~/Desktop/ubuntu.key
[13:44] <savvas> let's see if that solves the problem
[13:44] <GijsK> hohum
[13:45] <GijsK> hrmpf, this is in a vm so copy/paste is hard
[13:45] <GijsK> but gpg complains it doesn't find any GPG data in the key file
[13:45] <savvas> hm..
[13:45] <savvas> do you have seahorse?
[13:45] <GijsK> "no valid OpenPGP data found"
[13:46] <GijsK> uh, no idea what that is.
[13:46] <GijsK> that means the answer is probably "no", unless it is the name of another one of the mozilla clones by debian et al. :)
[13:46] <savvas> sudo apt-get install seahorse
[13:46] <savvas> gui for gpg
[13:46] <savvas> applications -> accessories -> passwords and encryption
[13:47] <GijsK> ah, cool. Let me kill update-manager first, though (apt-get is not happy with the locks)
[13:51] <GijsK> savvas: ok, the import button on that claims the file is in an invalid file format
[13:51] <GijsK> :(
[13:51] <savvas> GijsK: try find a remote key
[13:52] <savvas> ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
[13:52] <GijsK> mm, was trying that :)
[13:53] <savvas> (1)	Ubuntu Archive Master Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com> 4096 bit RSA key 3F272F5B, created: 2007-11-09
[13:53] <savvas> hm.. looks like there are new keys :P
[13:54] <savvas> gpg --search-keys ftpmaster@ubuntu.com
[13:54] <savvas> 4)	Ubuntu Archive Automatic Signing Key <ftpmaster@ubuntu.com> 1024 bit DSA key 437D05B5, created: 2004-09-12
[13:54] <savvas> try this one
[13:57] <GijsK> hrm.
[14:00] <savvas> nothing? :\
[14:00] <GijsK> nah, just very slow :)
[14:01] <savvas> ah ok
[14:01] <GijsK> ok, at least gpg is happy now
[14:02] <savvas> let's see if update-manager will be too :P
[14:04] <GijsK> doesn't look like it. :(
[14:04]  * GijsK wonders if he's misdiagnosing the problem
[14:05] <GijsK> the one other clue I have is that it warns, at startup, that it can't initiate dbus
[14:05] <GijsK> other than that, the terminal output gets to "authenticating /tmp/blah/hardy.tar.gz with /same/path/hardy.tar.gz.pgp" and then stops
[14:05] <GijsK> the UI is "checking update manager" and then hangs
[14:05] <GijsK> (and stops repainting)
[14:06] <Daveeey> hi there!
[14:06] <GijsK> er, excuse me, I meant "package manager" rather than "update manager"
[14:06] <Daveeey> anyone got alpha 6 yet?
[14:06] <donald_> how bad is Hardy now?
[14:06] <savvas> GijsK: try reload in update manager
[14:06] <Daveeey> dont know :P but today the last alpha would be released
[14:07] <Daveeey> but cant find it :\
[14:07] <GijsK> savvas: you mean "Check" ?
[14:07] <GijsK> (the button thing)
[14:07] <GijsK> or am I missing something?
[14:07] <savvas> yes
[14:07] <savvas> sorry :)
[14:09] <GijsK> savvas: that doesn't seem to help, either. :(
[14:10] <savvas> try this in terminal: do-release-upgrade
[14:11] <GijsK> that says "no new release found"
[14:12] <GijsK> the update manager it does list that I could upgrade gnome-orca, under a "distribution upgrade" header, but (1) it's greyed out and I can't select it, and (2) I have a custom-built orca trunk version installed.
[14:12] <savvas> um..
[14:12] <GijsK> (which is actually the reason I want hardy in the first place - current orca trunk wants gnome 2.21)
[14:13] <savvas> sudo apt-get update -o Acquire::http::No-Cache=True
[14:14] <savvas> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[14:15] <GijsK> still the same output, but complains it kept back gnome-orca
[14:15]  * GijsK force-installs that, and tries again
[14:15] <GijsK> hrm, doesn't help
[14:16] <savvas> sudo do-release-upgrade --devel-release
[14:16] <GijsK> ah :)
[14:16] <savvas> and i hope this works ;p
[14:16] <GijsK> yeah, that looks like its happier! :)
[14:16] <GijsK> *it's
[14:17] <GijsK> savvas: thanks a lot, also for the patience! :)
[14:17] <GijsK> oh, huh. :s
[14:17] <savvas> GijsK: everything's ok? it's upgrading
[14:17] <savvas> ?
[14:17] <GijsK> hrm.
[14:18] <savvas> :P i don't like that humming
[14:20] <savvas> GijsK: if it's not working, upload /etc/apt/sources.list at http://pastebin.ca or someplace
[14:21] <GijsK> yeah, it's not working
[14:21] <GijsK> I'm going to upload the output instead
[14:23] <GijsK> savvas: http://pastebin.ca/930315
[14:24] <GijsK> savvas: I have no idea why it's still unhappy though. It just seems to say "Aborting" without describing why...
[14:24] <savvas> us.archive.ubuntu.com ?
[14:25] <savvas> try switchin to archive.ubuntu.com
[14:25] <GijsK> by editing etc apt sources.list? :)
[14:25] <savvas> yessir
[14:25] <savvas> or by system -> admin -> soft sources
[14:26] <savvas> download from: main server
[14:26] <GijsK> it's being slower downloading updates now, so I guess that might be a good thing. :P
[14:27]  * savvas crosses fingers
[14:27] <savvas> :)
[14:28] <GijsK> hrmpf, still aborting! :(
[14:28] <savvas> try with  update-manager -d first, maybe it's solved
[14:28] <savvas> press check
[14:28] <savvas> and then upgrade
[14:28] <Milos_SD> did someone manage to do the update for OpenOffice?
[14:28] <Q-FUNK> howdy!
[14:28] <Milos_SD> :)
[14:28] <Q-FUNK> would anyone happen to know where the weather report that is now integrated in the clock applet gets configured?
[14:29] <Milos_SD> Q-FUNK, right click on clock, Preferences -> Weather
[14:29] <Milos_SD> :)
[14:29] <Milos_SD> and Location
[14:29] <savvas> Q-FUNK: click on the clock applet -> locations -> edit
[14:29] <savvas> :P
[14:29] <Q-FUNK> Milos_SD: it doesn't show me anything to input the location it should show by default.
[14:30] <Milos_SD> Go to Add
[14:30] <Q-FUNK> the home location that appears right besides the time itself.
[14:30]  * GijsK waits for his vm to stop sucking :\
[14:30] <Milos_SD> And find your location
[14:31] <savvas> GijsK: try report a bug about it
[14:31] <savvas> http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[14:32] <Q-FUNK> Milos_SD: ok, but now I pointlessly get my home location in two places:  besides the time and in the locations list.
[14:32] <savvas> a screenshot would help
[14:33] <Q-FUNK> hm
[14:33] <Q-FUNK> very strange way to configure things.
[14:34] <Q-FUNK> but, ok.  thanks!
[14:41] <GijsK> savvas: yeah, it doesn't seem to be any better at the moment. :(
[14:41] <GijsK> savvas: I'm in class, and supposed to solve this cryptogram using kerckhoff's superposition - so I'll file the bug when I get home in a few hours. Anything in particular I should keep in mind to get it attention?
[14:42] <savvas> um.. no idea
[14:43] <savvas> you could try gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
[14:43] <savvas> change gutsy to hardy
[14:43] <savvas> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[14:43] <savvas> Kerckhoffs' principle ? :)
[14:47] <a1fa> did anyone notice how slow hardy is?
[14:48] <a1fa> 7.04 release was flying for me
[14:48] <a1fa> 8.04 is so slow for some reason
[14:48] <Gil> a1fa which version? 64 or 32?
[14:49] <bazhang> heh Hardy smokes here ;]
[14:50] <a1fa> 32
[14:50] <a1fa> bazhang : smokes like crack?
[14:50] <a1fa> hehe
[14:50] <a1fa> 1gb of ram, 1gb of swap
[14:50] <bazhang> plus I got suspend and hibernate for the first time ever a1fa
[14:50] <a1fa> 2 cpus
[14:50] <a1fa> sweet
[14:51] <bazhang> this is since dapper
[14:51] <a1fa> also screen resolution does not work
[14:51] <a1fa> you cant change it
[14:51] <savvas> a1fa: same here, i get my desktop/login in less than a minute
[14:51] <a1fa> through preference
[14:51] <a1fa> savvas : smokin?
[14:51] <a1fa> thats fast for me to
[14:51] <savvas> well.. it's fast
[14:51] <a1fa> but like effects, menus, etc
[14:52] <a1fa> mouse movement is choppy
[14:52] <a1fa> etc
[14:52] <a1fa> copy and paste dont work either
[14:52] <savvas> then it's your graphics driver
[14:52] <savvas> system -> administration -> hard drivers
[14:52] <a1fa> hard-drives?
[14:52] <savvas> hardware drivers
[14:53] <savvas> i'm bored to type it all
[14:53] <a1fa> i dont have that
[14:53] <a1fa> i have restricted drivers
[14:53] <savvas> uh..
[14:53] <savvas> is this hardy or gutsy ?!
[14:54] <a1fa> hardy i hope
[14:54] <savvas> in a terminal do: gksu /usr/bin/jockey-gtk
[14:54] <a1fa> lsb-release
[14:54] <bazhang> i hope classic
[14:54] <a1fa> 8.04 hardy
[14:54] <a1fa> i dont have jockey-gtk
[14:55] <savvas> sudo apt-get install -f --reinstall ubuntu-desktop jockey-gtk
[14:56] <savvas> you upgraded using update-manager -d ?
[14:56] <a1fa> no
[14:56] <a1fa> apt-get dist-upgrade
[14:56] <a1fa> i had to manually edit my sources
[14:56] <a1fa> update-manage -d did not work for me
[14:56] <savvas> badsig errors ?
[14:56] <a1fa> nope
[14:56] <a1fa> it just told me no updates available
[14:57] <savvas> have to ask, did you click the check button?
[14:57] <a1fa> compiz.real crashed
[14:57] <a1fa> wtf
[14:58] <savvas> 15:55:31 < savvas> sudo apt-get install -f --reinstall ubuntu-desktop jockey-gtk
[14:58] <a1fa> did that
[14:58] <savvas> updating?
[14:58] <a1fa> its done
[14:58] <savvas> ok now try run gksu /usr/bin/jockey-gtk
[14:58] <a1fa> ok
[14:58] <a1fa> no drivers
[14:59] <a1fa> no proprietary drivers
[14:59] <savvas> what's your graphics card? intel?
[14:59] <a1fa> yes
[14:59] <a1fa> every time i log in and log out
[14:59] <a1fa> it does not save the resolution i want
[15:00] <savvas> in screens and graphics?
[15:00] <a1fa> yes
[15:00] <a1fa> default screen is checked
[15:01] <savvas> how about system -> preferences -> screen resolution ?
[15:01] <a1fa> that doesnt work
[15:01] <savvas> can you upload your /etc/X11/xorg.conf to http://pastebin.ca ?
[15:02] <savvas> i have 5 minutes to spare :P
[15:02] <a1fa> 930344
[15:02] <GijsK> hmmm.
[15:02] <a1fa> pastebin.ca/930344
[15:03] <GijsK> savvas: 941 upgraded, 174 installed, 68 removed ('to be')
[15:03] <GijsK> sounds good!
[15:03]  * GijsK hits enter
[15:03] <savvas> a1fa: gksu gedit /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[15:03] <a1fa> aigh
[15:04] <savvas> a1fa: see the Modes"1024x768@85" line?
[15:04] <savvas> what resolution would you like?
[15:04] <savvas> say "1280x1024@60"
[15:04] <savvas> add it in front of "1024x768@85"
[15:05] <savvas> the line would be Modes "1280x1024@60" "1024x768@85" etc etc.........
[15:05] <savvas> save close gedit
[15:05] <a1fa> right
[15:05] <savvas> log out, hit ctrl-alt-backspace and log back in
[15:05] <a1fa> i want 1024x768@85
[15:05] <savvas> oh
[15:06] <Daveeey> do you have ati or nvidia?
[15:06] <a1fa> intel
[15:06] <savvas> intel Daveeey
[15:06] <savvas> run gnome-display-properties
[15:06] <savvas> choose a lower resolution and hit apply
[15:06] <Daveeey> doesnt intel have a config utility? like nvidia has?
[15:07] <a1fa> gnome-display-properties doesnt work
[15:07] <savvas> what does it say?
[15:07] <a1fa> nothing
[15:07] <a1fa> nothing happens
[15:07] <a1fa> console output: sending client message
[15:08] <savvas> a1fa: sudo apt-get install -f --reinstall ubuntu-minimal ubuntu-standard
[15:08] <savvas> then: sudo apt-get install -f
[15:09] <savvas> something is definitely installed in a wrong way here
[15:09] <a1fa> :P
[15:09] <savvas> sudo apt-get install -f --reinstall gnome-display-properties
[15:10] <savvas> ah wait.. forgot its package
[15:11] <savvas> sudo apt-get install -f --reinstall gnome-control-center
[15:11] <a1fa> done
[15:12] <savvas> run again gnome-display-properties
[15:12] <allquixotic> how can I turn off scim?
[15:12] <a1fa> not working
[15:12] <a1fa> still
[15:12] <a1fa> not even help works
[15:12] <a1fa> the help button doesnt even work
[15:13] <a1fa> i am going to remove it and purge it
[15:13] <a1fa> whats the purge button?
[15:13] <savvas> next to resolution, you see no resolutions?
[15:14] <savvas> ah crap, they changed the screen resolution app waaaaaah
[15:14] <savvas> oops, pardon
[15:15] <savvas> a1fa: try a system reboot, see if that helps in anything
[15:15] <a1fa> nope
[15:15] <a1fa> ;P
[15:15] <savvas> I'll have to go
[15:15] <a1fa> i just hosed gnome
[15:15] <a1fa> :P
[15:15] <a1fa> but its sitll there
[15:15] <savvas> well.. stay there with a broken gui :P
[15:15] <savvas> laters
[15:18] <a1fa> tasksel: aptitude failed (100)
[15:18] <a1fa> lol
[15:18] <a1fa> anyway to remove all packages
[15:19] <a1fa> and start from minimal without reinstalling?
[15:26] <b4l74z4r> any news on x-fi in ubuntu?
[15:38] <a1fa> ok
[15:38] <a1fa> so i am reinstalling
[15:38] <a1fa> back to 7.10
[15:38] <glance> have anyone succeded to get update-grub working after fai-install with hardy?
[16:11] <muszek> hi... I've just installed KDE4.  Logged into it, ran synaptic and tried to install yakuake-kde4 (while having old yakuake already installed).  Now apt window that pops up in synaptic when you click on "apply" is frozen @ "setting up yakuake-kde4 (2.9.0-ubuntu1)...".  What should I do now?
[16:14] <muszek> I just killed it... going back to Gnome. bye
[16:27] <Aeroraptor-M> yay!
[16:27] <Aeroraptor-M> I'm upgraded to a6 now :D
[16:28] <kyklone> it didnt released yet... at least not isos
[16:28] <Zic> Aeroraptor-M: not realy released yet, but it is the same
[16:28] <Aeroraptor-M> oh? I thought I was. I just got a huge fleet of updates.
[16:28] <Aeroraptor-M> and seeing as OO.o now works....
[16:28] <Aeroraptor-M> it didn't work for me pre-updates
[16:52] <MFen> after last night's round of updates, wpa with wifi is broken.  is there a fix available yet?
[16:52] <MFen> oh, is that the topic?
[16:52] <MFen> i guess i'll go look for the newest network-manager package
[16:55] <makaveli8> hey guys
[16:55] <makaveli8> i heard alpha 6 was released today
[16:55] <makaveli8> but the link seems to be dead
[16:55] <makaveli8> anyone have an active link?
[16:56] <Amaranth> makaveli8: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/hardy/alpha6 says 404 so i'm going to say no
[16:56] <makaveli8> yea, thats the link i checked too
[16:56] <Amaranth> it is not out
[16:56] <makaveli8> k thnx
[16:57] <makaveli8> appreciate it
[16:57] <Amaranth> makaveli8: probably 24-48 hours from now
[16:57] <makaveli8> heres a question
[16:58] <Amaranth> ?
[16:58] <makaveli8> a buddy of mine has alpha 5
[16:58] <makaveli8> live cd
[16:58] <makaveli8> now should i jus borrow that? do the updates and changes come out on updates for alpha 5 users?
[16:58] <makaveli8> or should i jus say screw it and get a fresh copy of alpha 6 when it comes out
[16:59] <Amaranth> yeah, it'll update you automatically
[16:59] <makaveli8> oh ok :)
[16:59] <Amaranth> I know people that have had the same install since 4.10, you never need to reinstall
[16:59] <makaveli8> so no point in downloadin 700 megs if i can get my hand on alpha 5
[16:59] <makaveli8> k perfect
[17:00] <Amaranth> well, the upgrade to alpha 6 might be kinda large
[17:00] <Amaranth> but if you don't have to download alpha 5 that should be alright, the upgrade will probably be less to download than the full iso
[17:00] <makaveli8> yea
[17:00] <makaveli8> as long as the end result is the same
[17:05] <DanaG> That's odd: the SCIM toolbar shrinks when you press the 'ctrl' key.
[17:05] <DanaG> It's quite distracting.
[17:06] <pbbd> hey i am trying to install ubuntu 7.1 on my computer and am having an issue
[17:07] <pbbd> I get to the part "prepare partitions" and i have an external HD that i have three partitions in it (each of 40GB) and i try to install it on one of the partitions and it says "No root file system is defined. "Please correct this from the partitioning menu.", can anyone help?
[17:13] <savvas> pbbd: you're trying to do it manually?
[17:14] <savvas> the release is 7.10  by the way, and if it's about that release you should've asked it in #ubuntu
[17:27] <Lasivian> any recommendations where I should go if I need an old unsupported driver updated to the current kernel?
[17:27] <MFen> ok, seriously, who broke my wifi
[17:28] <MFen> i have the latest network-manager installed (and i even reinstalled all of its dependencies which include wpasupplicant) and i still can't access a wpa network
[17:28] <MFen> is there a fix?
[17:29] <MFen> does anyone at least know which package is broken, so i can downgrade something?
[17:29] <Zambezi> Which is the kernel after latest upgrade? I have reboot since like a week.
[17:30] <MFen> -11 is what i have
[17:33] <Zambezi> 2.6.24-10-generic
[17:33] <Zambezi> Is the one I use now.
[17:42] <savvas> Zambezi: 2.6.24.11.11
[17:54] <dasKreech> is X busted?
[17:55] <MFen> X wfm
[17:55] <MFen> wpa wifi is borken though
[17:55] <MFen> afaict. nobody seems to know anything about it.
[17:56] <dasKreech> I can't change my ersolution
[17:58] <frank_> MFen: did wpa break today?
[18:02] <dasKreech> MFen: sudo dpokg-reconfigure -phigh xserver-xorg doesn't seem to help
[18:07] <scristian> is there any reason why a distupgrade wants 90Mb on /boot ?
[18:12] <mohbana> how can i remove a package without its dependencies?
[18:14] <frank_> mohbana: like I said. that's not the right question if I understand you correctly
[18:22] <MFen> frank_: yes, wpa broke today
[18:22] <MFen> frank_: i've tried asking on #madwifi if anyone knows anything about it, no response yet
[18:22] <MFen> i doin't even know what package is broken
[18:22] <frank_> MFen: I guess I won't upgrade for a while them
[18:22] <frank_> then*
[18:23] <MFen> topic says network-manager was "fixed" as of 10am yesterday, but the fix broke things because it was all working before i upgraded and not after..
[18:25] <strabes> alpha 6 is coming out right now right?
[18:25] <strabes> today*
[18:31] <ethana2> hiyarr
[18:31] <makaveli8> yea strabes
[18:31] <ethana2> people are voting my ideas down
[18:31] <ethana2> ...but i feel they're good ones
[18:31] <ethana2> you know, in brainstorm
[18:31] <strabes> it might be because they're not as urgent as other ideas
[18:31] <strabes> like fixing suspend & hibernate
[18:33] <ethana2> perhaps
[18:33] <makaveli8> havent installed ubuntu in awhile
[18:33] <makaveli8> but hve they fixed the 'keyring' pop up at startup?
[18:33] <makaveli8> cause i searched and searched and coudlnt find a solution
[18:34] <ethana2> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3583/ http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/3581/  (if anyone wants to give them a look)
[18:34] <ethana2> i think we've really been moving a lot of password stuff around
[18:34] <ethana2> ...so i'd by default expect to not have that problem anymore
[18:40] <strabes> makaveli8: there is no keyring popup anymore. you're talking about for wireless passwords, etc?
[18:40] <strabes> i remember something like that from edgy or feisty; i can't remember which
[18:40] <strabes> but it's no longer present
[18:42] <makaveli8> yes
[18:42] <makaveli8> oh ok :)
[18:44] <wastrel> beep
[18:44] <dasKreech> Is X havnig issues changing resolution curerntly?
[19:04] <baastrup> hey there, im having some problems with my network in hardy, is there anyway reset the network devices, looks like the show wrong op under ifconfig, it shows ups as wmaster 0 a vnet0 hmm strange
[19:04] <baastrup> I have tryed to reinstall udev
[19:09] <baastrup> # PCI device 0x14e4:0x1673 (tg3)
[19:09] <baastrup> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:1c:23:1a:1b:66", ATTR{type}=="1", NAME="eth0"
[19:09] <baastrup> # PCI device 0x8086:0x4222 (iwl3945)
[19:09] <baastrup> SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="00:1c:bf:51:4a:03", ATTR{type}=="1", NAME="wlan0"
[19:09] <baastrup> strange
[19:16] <h3sp4wn> Does anyone know which of the machines that run ubuntu mobile are actually for sale
[19:16] <h3sp4wn> (similar price to eepc or so)
[19:24] <h3sp4wn> I guess ^ is probably not wonder why they want to get that running on expensive machines that mostly run vista - doubt it will have alot of users
 UMPC? what is that? who buying it?..
[19:27] <hdevalence> ultramobile
[19:27] <hdevalence> pc
[19:27] <kyklone> pc? nice, can i play urban terror with it?
[19:28] <hdevalence> I'd just install vanilla (k)ubuntu on an eeepc but that's me
[19:33] <h3sp4wn> kyklone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded
[19:34] <h3sp4wn> kyklone: The list is all of stuff released before the eepc so as far as I can see its all silly expensive
[19:34] <h3sp4wn> (and all you have to pay for vista)
[19:35] <h3sp4wn> Supposed to be a gigabyte menlow in june but thats a few months away yet
[19:39] <h3sp4wn> hdevalence: I think I would probably use Freebsd with it (Or maybe Netbsd if wireless works with it)
[19:39] <kyklone> M528 with "Battery life in the 3-4 hours range" ? :/
[19:41] <kyklone> gigabyte m528
[19:42] <h3sp4wn> Its all speculation as well as they all say coming in June
[19:43] <kyklone> well if you see current specs for "UMPC" guess 3 hours is a fact... or not?
[19:44] <hdevalence> h3sp4wn: i'm lazy and want everything to 'just work'... I've had good experiences with Kubuntu in that regard
[19:45] <h3sp4wn> hdevalence: well you will have to at least patch madwifi for working wireless with an ee
[19:45] <paulo-falcao> no sound after upgrade to hardy, can anyone help ?
[19:45] <hdevalence> I don't have one myself, so it's not really an issue
[19:46] <abstrak> Anybody know when the "alsa update breaks kernel ABI" bug will be resolved ?
[19:47] <paulo-falcao> no sound after upgrade to hardy, can anyone help ?
[19:47] <h3sp4wn> kyklone: Not sure dunno if I need more than 3 hours
[19:50] <paulo-falcao> no sound after upgrade to hardy, can anyone help ?
[19:51] <h3sp4wn> not without more information
[19:51] <paulo-falcao> what information?
[19:51] <abstrak> paulo : maybe this  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+bug/192559
[19:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192559 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "alsa update breaks kernel ABI" [Critical,In progress]
[19:53] <kyklone> does Urban Terror run on EeePC?
[19:53] <paulo-falcao> ok, tjks
[19:53] <paulo-falcao> tks
[19:58] <abstrak> A bug like #192559 take 1 week, 1 month ... how many time this will be resolved ?
[19:59] <h3sp4wn> ASAP
[19:59] <h3sp4wn> Its marked Critical (highest severity level)
[19:59] <abstrak> ...
[19:59] <abstrak> A work around for now ?
[20:00] <h3sp4wn> Use oss
[20:00] <h3sp4wn> http://www.opensound.com/
[20:00] <h3sp4wn> (whether you think its worth it is upto you)
[20:00] <cwillu> abstrak, if you _need_ things to work, then you shouldn't be using hardy.
[20:01] <abstrak> yep
[20:01] <abstrak> how to simply downfrade my install ?
[20:01] <h3sp4wn> It depends on what you actually need
[20:01] <h3sp4wn> I need zsh and a compiler and emacs
[20:01] <hdevalence> I need xorg 7.3
[20:01] <h3sp4wn> and one of matlab or octave
[20:02] <cwillu> abstrak, you can't really (you can, but you really have to figure it out yourself)
[20:02] <savvas> abstrak: simple, format your root / partition, keep your /home in a separate partition and don't format it :) then do a manual partitioning while installing an older ubuntu release
[20:02] <h3sp4wn> I don't really need X (I should get XiG working again though)
[20:02] <cwillu> abstrak, in principle, you'd changes your sources back to gutsy, set the prefs to strongly prefer gutsy versions, and run aptitude full-upgrade + dpkg-reconfiure -all over and over
[20:03] <savvas> eh, my way is easier :P
[20:03] <h3sp4wn> 1001 forces a downgrade
[20:03] <cwillu> your way isn't downgrading an install :p
[20:04] <abstrak> i use hardy to get the latest for a media center ... not a good choice ?
[20:04] <savvas> call it what you like, it's doing an installation of an older release :P
[20:04] <h3sp4wn> I think if I had to do it now I would use a spare partition
[20:04] <h3sp4wn> and the installed package list and apt-get dselect-upgrade
[20:04] <savvas> abstrak: you might wanna try mythbuntu
[20:04] <cwillu> abstrak, hardy isn't finished.  It's not close to being finished.  It's still in alpha, aka, full-on development that breaks arbitrary things on a daily basis
[20:05] <h3sp4wn> (I have done the full downgrade with aptitude though but its not nice)
[20:05] <savvas> abstrak: http://www.mythbuntu.org/
[20:05] <cwillu> abstrak, once it's in beta, then you'll get some sympathy when it breaks.  until then, you just get to keep the pieces :p
[20:05] <h3sp4wn> My media player runs Solaris Express Community edition works fine
[20:06] <abstrak> i know mythbutun ...
[20:06] <abstrak> i use this computer to develop too... i want to contribute...
[20:06] <cwillu> abstrak, a virtual machine would be more appropriate for that
[20:07] <h3sp4wn> No laptop or desktop ?
[20:07] <abstrak> desktop
[20:07] <h3sp4wn> Developing in a virtual machine is not good
[20:07] <cwillu> ?
[20:07] <cwillu> lol
[20:07] <h3sp4wn> if you are not using your own stuff then why should anyone else
[20:07] <cwillu> that's what vm's are for
[20:07] <oliver_g2> hi
[20:08] <oliver_g2> so how do I get rid of that &%(&%&( SCIM stuff?
[20:08] <cwillu> I'm running hardy, but I have 4 machines on my desk
[20:08] <cwillu> case in point, oliver_g2 :p
[20:08] <h3sp4wn> cwillu: maybe if its very early in development but as soon as you are publishing it anywhere
[20:08] <oliver_g2> I was just typing, and suddenly it won't let me :-((
[20:08] <oliver_g2> not funny
[20:08] <h3sp4wn> (expecting others to have and use it then you should live / die by your own sword etc)
[20:08] <cwillu> !motd
[20:08] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about motd - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[20:09] <h3sp4wn> Sun Engineers are forced to run there own stuff
[20:09] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, how do you mean?  hardy is still alpha
[20:09] <h3sp4wn> s/there/their
[20:09] <oliver_g2> cwillu: luckily Hardy is confined to Virtualbox, but it sucks anyway
[20:09] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: that's how sw develop is supposed to be
[20:09] <cwillu> oliver_g2, thank you for being smart about it :)
[20:10]  * cwillu goes stark raving mad
[20:10] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: though I hope the canonical employees are not forced to run Hardy Alpha, cause then they wouldn't really get things done#
[20:11] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: What do you mean ? Its not alpha in the traditional sense of the word
[20:11] <cwillu> oliver_g2, nah, that'd be appropriate:  people responsible for the release, it makes sense;  they have the resources, the knowledge, etc, to fix things as they break
[20:11] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, it's very much in the traditional sense of the word:  it's broken in arbitrary ways, on any given day
[20:11] <oliver_g2> cwillu: btw. is doesn't really matter for me whether SCIM is enabled, but my mom is currently using Gutsy and is supposed to use Hardy, and this SCIM **** is bound to give some phone calls :-(
[20:12] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: IMHO it's still too buggy to use
[20:12] <cwillu> oliver_g2, the keyboard icon in the task manager, you can disable the keyboard shortcuts from there
[20:12] <h3sp4wn> cwillu: Its using mostly upstream software defined as stable
[20:12] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: I have it on 2 boxes and have had for Months for what I need its been fine all along
[20:12] <oliver_g2> cwillu: I have hidden the SCIM panel icon yesterday...
[20:12] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, integration is easily a third of the work
[20:12] <h3sp4wn> (other than for 1/2 day I had a broken gtk)
[20:12] <hdevalence> there's no way to get xorg 7.3 w/o upgrading to hardy right?
[20:12] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, yes, but you know how to fix things that break :)
[20:13] <cwillu> I've been running hardy for months as well, firefox 3 trunk builds for a year now, etc
[20:13] <oliver_g2> cwillu: do you know a way to completely disable SCIM? I don't see that I need it at all
[20:13] <cwillu> oliver_g2, when you hit shift+space, does it pop up a tiny window in the bottom right?
[20:13] <cwillu> right click on that, you can get into the prefs
[20:14] <h3sp4wn> cwillu: Ever run Freebsd -CURRENT ?
[20:14] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, I'm just saying
[20:14] <oliver_g2> cwillu: oh, so the shift+space was what started the **** ... I somehow mistyped, and then the little icon appeared, text was underlined, and some keys were disabled :-/
[20:14] <cwillu> half a day where gtk was broken == things that happen in uncooked distributions
[20:15] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, no I haven't
[20:15] <oliver_g2> cwillu: right, the prefs are a HIG nightmare it seems...
[20:15] <filthpig> hi, I'm considering an upgrade to Hardy these days, are there anything serious I should beware of at this time? I'm used to running betas and rc's, so I have a pretty good idea what to expect on a general basis :)
[20:15] <cwillu> filthpig, don't
[20:15] <cwillu> just don't
[20:15] <cwillu> wait till it's a beta :p
[20:15] <macogw> hey anyone using network-manager-vpnc?
[20:16] <filthpig> hm, I thought it was betatime now :p When is the beta due?
[20:16]  * oliver_g2 wonders why oh why somebody integrates something unfinished-looking and intrusive like that SCIM thing NOW?
[20:16] <h3sp4wn> cwillu: Thats alpha to me or what sid used to be like 3/4 years ago
[20:16] <cwillu> oliver_g2, apparently they were just discussing that in #...-dev this morning, it wasn't supposed to have been enabled yet
[20:16] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, aren't we still in alpha?
[20:16] <macogw> filthpig: alpha 6 will be out soon
[20:16] <oliver_g2> cwillu: "not have been enabled yet"? so it rather should have been enabled in the final? ;)
[20:17] <cwillu> oliver_g2, it wasn't cooked yet, I just remember somebody saying that they weren't sure what happened
[20:17] <h3sp4wn> cwillu: theoretically
[20:18] <filthpig> (slightly OT, but Alpha 6 reminds me of some 70's/80's band?)
[20:18] <cwillu> :)
[20:18] <cwillu> h3sp4wn, I don't see what's theoretical about it:  network manager was broken yesterday, wine was broken for weeks, tracker was causing issues last week, etc
[20:19] <oliver_g2> anyway, what setting would you recommend to set to completely disable SCIM? I'm still not sure
[20:19] <macogw> my touchpad not scrolling is the grand total of my breakage
[20:19] <macogw> well no i lied
[20:19] <cwillu> oliver_g2, I just disabled all the shortcuts, not sure if there's a better way right now
[20:19] <mjphilli_> tracker was being a disk I/O whore.
[20:19] <macogw> cuz i was just going to ask about nm's vpnc support
[20:19] <macogw> thats the grand total.  2 very small issues.
[20:20] <macogw> oh i disabled tracker first thing....cant quite figure out how to stop it completely. its not in my gnome sessions startup thing, but trackerd is *still* running
[20:20] <cwillu> macogw, I know there were changes re synaptics, might check if the new config dialog is on, and if there's some setting you can tweak now
[20:20] <cwillu> macogw, it's in init.d
[20:20] <cwillu> I think
[20:20] <macogw> i thought i looked there...
[20:20] <oliver_g2> gah... the deeper I delve into the scim settings dialog, the nightmarisher it gets :-((
[20:20] <macogw> cwillu: nothing with a t in init.d/
[20:20] <h3sp4wn> Just remove it for it
[20:21] <h3sp4wn> *Remove it for a bit
[20:21] <cwillu> /etc/xdg/autostart/trackerd.desktop
[20:21] <mjphilli_> macogw, I had the same problem, killing trackerd didn't help.  Its respawning from somewhere.
[20:21] <cwillu> oliver_g2, :)
[20:21] <macogw> is anyone else using network-manager-vpnc?  my traffic doesn't forward through it, and it *should*.  vpnc only works from the command line for me.  can anyone reproduce?
[20:22] <h3sp4wn> macogw: No but someone said the same thing about the openvpn network manager plugin
[20:22] <macogw> cwillu: i dont thinkthat has an effect
[20:22] <mjphilli_> what is xdg?
[20:22] <h3sp4wn> and there is a generic bug relating to that (maybe against just network manager)
[20:22] <macogw> cwillu: i think that's just what goes in in the session startup by default until the user changes it
[20:24] <jorgp> will alpha 6 be released today?
[20:25] <macogw> someone on planet said yes but it was empty when i looked
[20:25] <h3sp4wn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24/+bug/192559
[20:25] <savvas> jorgp: is it that urgent?
[20:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192559 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "alsa update breaks kernel ABI" [Critical,In progress]
[20:25] <jorgp> savvas: not really
[20:25] <h3sp4wn> They wouldn't release an alpha with that
[20:25] <savvas> jorgp: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ pre-releases
[20:26] <savvas> hehe
[20:26] <savvas> good that I use OSS :p
[20:27] <jorgp> savvas: thanks friend
[20:27] <h3sp4wn> savvas: Yeah I do also (on the box connected to my good speaker)
[20:27] <savvas> n/p :)
[20:28] <h3sp4wn> actually I need to update to the new oss 4.1 build
[20:28]  * savvas releases h3sp4wn to the alpha-females
[20:28] <macogw> h3sp4wn: funny thing about that bug is that it was reported last july, when network manager handled vpnc correctly for me, but didnt save my password.  now that it saves my password on hardy, traffic doesnt go through the vpn.
[20:29] <savvas> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_female <-
[20:29] <savvas> :p
[20:37] <cwillu> macogw, what do the routing tables look like (I'm familiar with openvpn, but not the other)
[20:37] <spideylinux> lastelement0: what brand of wireless card do you have?
[20:38] <macogw> cwillu: dunno im currently connected through the command line one because i cant reach the tubes through the gui one
[20:39] <cwillu> macogw, forgive my ignorance:  does it use its own interface when connected?
[20:40] <macogw> no, tun0
[20:41]  * GijsK mutters as his VM does not agree with hardy, and now he's stuck with a 640x480 display resolution for it :|
[20:42] <oliver_g2> GijsK: what kind of VM?
[20:42] <h3sp4wn> using kvm ?
[20:42] <GijsK> virtualbox
[20:42] <h3sp4wn> yuk
[20:42] <oliver_g2> GijsK: same here
[20:42] <GijsK> the hardy guest additions also don't actually work, which is sad. :(
[20:43] <GijsK> (modprobes are failing, so the kernel module is prolly broken somehow)
[20:43] <oliver_g2> GijsK: VB itself works fine at 1024x786, but didn't install guest tools
[20:43] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: no yuk, virtualbox is great
[20:43] <GijsK> oliver_g2: to be clear, I'm actually running VB in Mac OS X (this is a macbook, please don't kill me!), and hardy is in the VM
[20:44] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: What makes it better than xen ?
[20:44] <h3sp4wn> (or kvm for quick tests)
[20:44] <GijsK> and at first it was 800x600, which was not very good already, but now it's 640x480, which is just plain archaic
[20:44] <oliver_g2> GijsK: ok, won't kill you :-) but I'm not sure that the host system makes such a difference to VB
[20:44] <GijsK> h3sp4wn: for me, the fact that it works on Mac OS is a pretty big boon... :P
[20:44] <oliver_g2> GijsK: yes, 640 is too small for Gnome :-/
[20:44] <GijsK> aye.
[20:45] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: doesn't xen require an appropriate CPU, with VT?
[20:45] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: No
[20:45] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: oh, didn't know that
[20:45] <h3sp4wn> For it to work at its best you need a paravirtualised kernel
[20:46] <h3sp4wn> (it can use vt but its not optimum)
[20:46] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: so, I can install it on my running Debian without any reboot or whatever, and start installing Hardy in it?
[20:46] <oliver_g2> (because with VB, I can do that)
[20:46] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: Its a different kernel you need to run the xen kernel
[20:47] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: well then it's pretty much out... I don't really want to reboot my machine
[20:47] <h3sp4wn> Hardy is a bit of messing around to install under Xen but thats the fault of Debian / Ubuntu
[20:47] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: besides, what advantages does xen have over VB, if not running on VT hardware? Is it still faster?
[20:47] <h3sp4wn> I can easily install Fedora / Centos / NetBSD onto my xen box that's running Solaris
[20:47] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: paravirtualisation is faster
[20:48]  * GijsK doesn't need fast, just working.
[20:48] <h3sp4wn> oliver_g2: Can you have hardware accelerated Opengl with virtualbox ?
[20:48] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: no :-(
[20:48] <h3sp4wn> you can with xen
[20:48] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: does xen offer that?
[20:48] <h3sp4wn> (or kvm)
[20:48] <oliver_g2> nice
[20:48] <GijsK> does xen do clipboard sharing, mouse/kbd integration, folder sharing?
[20:48] <oliver_g2> maybe then I really have to try it
[20:49] <GijsK> soooo... messing with xorg.conf without too much care was apparently not the best idea. :\
[20:49] <zzats> is there any information around on x.o 7.3 and peripheral devices? I'm looking for a solution on my non-functional multibutton mouse
[20:49]  * GijsK kills self and proceeds to attempt to repair the damange
[20:50] <oliver_g2> GijsK: can't you try to completely restore xorg.conf?
[20:50] <prodigel> Hi. I'm trying to compile a rt2561 wifi chipset driver for 2.6.24 kernel (ubuntu 8.04) and I get some errors. the first one is : "error: implicit declaration of function ‘SET_MODULE_OWNER’".
[20:50] <oliver_g2> GijsK: what did you want to change there anyway?
[20:50] <GijsK> oliver_g2: probably, but I just edited two lines.
[20:50] <GijsK> the resolution list for the virtual screen :)
[20:50] <oliver_g2> GijsK: 1024 was still too small? :-)
[20:50] <GijsK> which I did, per instructions, but I didn't leave the old one, and I bet there's a selected value around that I didn't update and that's why it's confused
[20:50] <GijsK> oliver_g2: 640x480 was too small
[20:51] <h3sp4wn> GijsK: Dunno about that with Linux Dom-0 but it all pretty much just works with a Solaris Dom0
[20:51] <oliver_g2> GijsK: I had to edit xorg.conf so the "screens and graphics" dialog would work with it, and then I selected a 1024x786 monitor in that dialog, and that was it
[20:52] <h3sp4wn> GijsK: choice of nfs or iscsi for getting the folders
[20:52] <oliver_g2> h3sp4wn: well I certainly don't want to start messing around with a Solaris now (at least, I would do that only in VB :)
[20:52] <GijsK> h3sp4wn: I don't care about that either, I just want it to work. I don't care what imaginary filesystem it thinks it has ;)
[20:53] <GijsK> oliver_g2: yeah, I just screwed up and missed a line, I think.
[20:53] <h3sp4wn> Its not imaginary its real implimentations
[20:53] <h3sp4wn> You can use either over the network as well
[20:53] <GijsK> h3sp4wn: I don't need to :)
[20:54] <h3sp4wn> Its worth the small amount of extra learning
[20:54] <h3sp4wn> (and you have everything upstart was supposed to be)
[20:54] <macogw> zzats: oooh yeah theres tons
[20:54] <h3sp4wn> and zfs / dtrace
[20:54] <GijsK> why, though? Things work for me as they are... :)
[20:54] <macogw> zzats: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ManyButtonsMouseHowto
[20:54] <zzats> macogw: thank you.
[20:55] <macogw> zzats: oh wait 7.3....meh its probably similar...i guess
[20:55] <macogw> zzats: i didnt pay attentionto which channel this was when i said tons
[20:55] <zzats> macogw :)
[20:55] <macogw> so i thought it was normal #ubuntu
[20:55] <h3sp4wn> GijsK: Are you using zfs already with the Mac ?
[20:55] <zzats> macogw: well, for normal that would've been useful.
[20:56] <h3sp4wn> If so having somewhere on another box to send backups etc also with zfs is nice
[20:56] <GijsK> h3sp4wn: I have no idea. I'm using whatever the default was.
[20:56] <GijsK> I can check though, if you care a lot! :)
[20:57] <h3sp4wn> I don't care that much
[20:57] <oliver_g2> GijsK: btw. here's my xorg.conf, which should work in VB: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/58672/
[20:57] <GijsK> oliver_g2: sweet, thanks!
[20:58] <deepjoy> anybody know what happened to alpha 6?
[20:58] <jorgp> deepjoy: I think a bug or 2 caused its delay
[21:05] <GijsK> oliver_g2: nice, that wfm. What's the default resolution though - 1280x1024 or something?
[21:06] <oliver_g2> GijsK: what default resolution? It depends on the gues system I suppose, and Ubuntu will probably stay with 640 when it doesn't recognize the hardware (like under VB)
[21:06] <oliver_g2> *guest
[21:06] <deepjoy> I can't seem to find a view in launchpad that will give me a decent view of items pending for 8.04 or alpha 6 for that matter
[21:06] <deepjoy> :-(
[21:07] <jorgp> deepjoy: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[21:07] <GijsK> oliver_g2: ok, it was using 1024x768 now. Now that I've managed that, though, I'm keen to make it use something more happy for my widescreen laptop :)
[21:08] <GijsK> (it's never really good enough :) )
[21:08] <oliver_g2> GijsK: oh well... do I hear some kind of hybris there? ;-)
[21:08] <deepjoy> jorgp: thanks
[21:08] <GijsK> oliver_g2: only a little bit :)
[21:08] <jorgp> deepjoy: np
[21:09] <oliver_g2> The gods are right now looking down sadly at you, shaking their heads at your insatiable resolution greed ;)
[21:09] <hpham> good afternoon everyone
[21:09] <oliver_g2> but you wanted it so...
[21:09] <jorgp> hello hpham
[21:11] <oliver_g2> GijsK: I'm just trying to set it higher here, but just get a garbled screen :-( maybe have to configure more video memory in VB
[21:11] <GijsK> oliver_g2: uh, actually, something a bit more acute - your keyboard settings are different.
[21:11] <oliver_g2> GijsK: oh, right... suppose so :-(
[21:11]  * GijsK goes to look for the right bits to copy from his old conf (I saved it :) )
[21:11] <oliver_g2> heh
[21:11] <oliver_g2> or you could go buy a german keyboard ;)
[21:12] <GijsK> ugh... where is the colon key. Now I can't quit vim :(
[21:13] <oliver_g2> :-D
[21:13] <oliver_g2> try the key net to L ?
[21:13] <oliver_g2> or the key two besides M ?
[21:14] <macogw> haha
[21:15] <oliver_g2> eh, it should be the key two keys right to the M, but with Shift...
[21:15] <oliver_g2> Shift+.
[21:15] <GijsK> oliver_g2: don't bother, I solved by ctrl+shift+t in gnome terminal, followed by killall vim
[21:15] <GijsK> very effective
[21:16] <GijsK> :P
[21:16] <oliver_g2> :-D
[21:16] <GijsK> (and then I used nano <3)
[21:16] <oliver_g2> well who uses vim anyway?
[21:16] <oliver_g2> when there is nano?
[21:16] <oliver_g2> and gedit?
[21:16] <jorgp> I use vim all the time
[21:16] <delhage> ed is the standard...
[21:16]  * delhage hides
[21:17] <jorgp> actually vim is the standard
[21:17] <oliver_g2> text editor
[21:17] <daveux> Hey, what's with this scim applet in my notification center that I can't seem to disable? It keeps changing my input to egyptian. Is this happening to others?
[21:17]  * GijsK suggests you all join #holywars
[21:17] <GijsK> ;)
[21:17]  * oliver_g2 has a skewed view on vi* since he had/has to use some crippled unusable vi-something on some old Solaris box at work :-/
[21:17] <jorgp> heh, I think the holy war is vim vs emacs
[21:18] <delhage> http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html
[21:18] <macogw> oliver_g2: thats probably real vi
[21:18]  * oliver_g2 admits to hence not being fair against vi*, but still likes kate and gedit better
[21:18] <macogw> oliver_g2: you could compile vim for it. i did that on one of the school's servers
[21:18]  * GijsK does too, but cmdline editors are useful to know how to get around with
[21:19] <jorgp> I like kate much better then gedit
[21:19] <oliver_g2> delhage: right, hence: ed the standard. text editor.
[21:19] <GijsK> so I learned vim a little bit.
[21:19] <macogw> daveux: Standard Chinese Input Method
[21:19] <oliver_g2> macogw: that was at work, and I wasn't allowed to do that
[21:19] <macogw> daveux: stop hitting shift+space or ctrl+space
[21:19] <MFen> so am i still the only one who has seen the wpa network problem?
[21:19] <daveux> macogw, I can't help it - that's how I type. How can I turn it off?
[21:19] <oliver_g2> macogw: instead, I fled the solaris boxes as soon as possible and went back to the snugly Linux desktop :)
[21:20] <GijsK> anyway, I have the keyboard thing fixed now. Using the UI, even (though it only worked after a restart, and yes, I know possibly login/logout would have done it...)
[21:20] <oliver_g2> ugh... now I have tried to set 1280x960 in virtualbox, and the screen is garbled :-( where's bulletproof-x _now_?
[21:21] <oliver_g2> is there some magic key combo to press in login screen to force bulletproof x?
[21:21] <macogw> daveux: go into its settings (right click it maybe?) and turn off all the triggers
[21:22] <daveux> macogw, someone needs to alert someone about this. It's a huge problem.
[21:22]  * oliver_g2 just discovered that pressing Esc in gdm login screen for some seconds gives a nice drum concert
[21:22] <macogw> daveux: er...i think its your setup
[21:22] <macogw> daveux: scim doesnt do anything by default, as far as i know
[21:23] <macogw> i have to go through a 15-step process to install japanese support in it
[21:23] <daveux> I just upgraded to hardy alpha 6, and now I ቻንን ባረልይ ትይpe
[21:23] <daveux> *can barely type
[21:23]  * GijsK blinks
[21:23] <jorgp> daveux: what was that? last part was garbaled?
[21:23] <daveux> yes, exactly jorgp
[21:23] <jorgp> lol
[21:24] <jorgp> daveux: how is alpha 6?
[21:24] <jorgp> still alpha
[21:24] <daveux> Well, my resolution broke and I keep typing in weird character sets.
[21:24] <daveux> I say stay away.
[21:25] <naught101> still no Xorg...
[21:25] <daveux> Also, I can't kill scim. I kill -9 every scim process, and they just respawn.
[21:25] <jorgp> naught101: alpha 6 has no xorg?
[21:26] <naught101> jorgp: I currently have no Xorg... bug in AGPgart
[21:26] <jorgp> daveux: upgrade or fresh install?
[21:26] <daveux> upgrade
[21:26] <oliver_g2> wheeeee!!
[21:26] <oliver_g2> Ubuntu recovery mode RICKS!
[21:26] <jorgp> naught101: upgrade or fresh install?
[21:26] <oliver_g2> eh
[21:26] <oliver_g2> *ROCKS
[21:27] <oliver_g2> :)
[21:27] <naught101> jorgp: upgrade from pre alpha5
[21:27] <oliver_g2> GijsK: that's what you should have done from the start
[21:27] <jorgp> I was about to install a today snapshot iso
[21:27] <naught101> stopped working yesterday after an upgrade
[21:28] <jorgp> so maybe I should wait
[21:30] <naught101> I dunno, no-one else seems to have my bug
[21:31] <naught101> #199034
[21:31] <naught101> bug #199034
[21:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 199034 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "X server will not start (agpgart)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/199034
[21:31] <jorgp> I have an older nvidia card
[21:31] <jorgp> gefore mx 420
[21:32] <jorgp> geforce
[22:04] <frank23> does wpa work right now?
[22:05] <Do``> hey
[22:06] <willis_> hmm
[22:06] <Do``> i just noticed a new effect in ubuntu - at first i thought it was a compiz fusion effect - when i click on icons on the gnome panel, i can see them kinda explode and also fade away
[22:06] <Do``> does anybody know where i can find it's config.. and what it is called? :D
[22:08] <mjphilli_> maybe in the gconf-editor ?
[22:08] <mjphilli_> under apps/metacity then look for composite
[22:10] <Kamus_H_Zwisch> oO
[22:10] <Do``> mjphilli_: i don't think metacity is running here
[22:10] <cyphase> Oo
[22:10] <Amaranth> metacity has a very basic compositor
[22:10] <Do``> my window manager is compiz-fusion
[22:10] <jorgp> how is everyone liking gnome 2.22?
[22:11] <Kamus_H_Zwisch> my debian sounds like a elefant
[22:11] <Kamus_H_Zwisch> or something like this
[22:11] <Kamus_H_Zwisch> the net is too slow
[22:11] <Amaranth> but the explode thing is just gnome-panel taking advantage of having a compositor running
[22:11] <mjphilli_> jorgp, when I click on the time / weather applet everything crashes
[22:11] <cyphase> jorgp: it's nice, but i'm running hardy in a VM, so i don't get the full effects, etc
[22:11] <Amaranth> expect more apps to do such things as time goes on
[22:11] <Do``> Amaranth: ye but what's it called? i want to show a video of it to someone but i can't find a video on youtube without a name? :))
[22:11] <Kamus_H_Zwisch> 4435B/s 39min52s, and i have a 2MB link
[22:11] <Amaranth> Do``: it doesn't have a name
[22:11] <Amaranth> Do``: and i doubt there is a video of it
[22:12] <Do``> blurgh :(
[22:12] <Kamus_H_Zwisch> down to 806 :(
[22:12] <jorgp> mjphilli_: not good
[22:12] <Amaranth> Do``: it's just a little thing in gnome-panel, no compiz plugin or anything involved
[22:12]  * cyphase ups the power on his DoS against Kamus_H_Zwisch
[22:13] <Do``> jorgp: i like it very much, although i disable most of it, i only see the improvements in nautilus when copying multiple stuff over samba and the new worldclock applet \o/
[22:13] <Do``> Amaranth: i'll try to take a video of it with istanbul then :)
[22:13]  * cyphase likes the new weather feature in the clock
[22:14] <cyphase> no more need for a separate weather applet (not that it takes up any significant amount of resources)
[22:14] <Gil> Hi all - I'm having an issue with my monitor refresh rate in Hardy - it keeps defaulting to 1600 x 1200 at 50 Hz. However, when I switch back to 1280 x 1024 it won't let me bump the refresh rate any higher than 65hz. I'm using non-free Nvidia drivers, and if I go into nvidia-settings then I *can* access 85hz at 1280 x 1024, but I can't save my settings as it crashes when I try to do that! - so does anyone have any clue what ma
[22:14] <Gil> y be going on?
[22:16] <RAOF> Gil: At least one part of what's going on is that the nvidia drivers lie about the refresh rate (by default).
[22:16]  * cyphase curses at proprietary drivers
[22:17] <RAOF> The refresh rate they report is actually made up, so that they can shoehorn twinview in.
[22:17] <cyphase> Intel and ATI have open source graphics drivers.. nVidia needs to get with the program
[22:18] <Gil> RAOF right. In that case, I suppose my first port of call is to remove non-free and see what happens then....
[22:19] <h3sp4wn> I don't think it needs to get with the program
[22:19] <RAOF> Gil: You'll lose 3D accel, and it's likely that performance will drop quite a lot.
[22:19] <h3sp4wn> (Still nothing comparible for any remotely complicated opengl)
[22:19] <Gil> RAOF yeah - I mean just temporarily so I can see what parts of my issue are related to non-free :)
[22:20] <RAOF> Right :)
[22:20] <h3sp4wn> Is the xserver-xorg-nv driver deobfusicated yet ?
[22:20] <Gil> I mean, ultimately, I can always go and directly edit xorg.conf, but I want to at least see if this is a bug first of all
[22:21] <RAOF> h3sp4wn: No, and it's not going to be.  That'd be nouveau :P
[22:21] <RAOF> h3sp4wn: In fact, nouveau sprung originally from the rejection of deobfuscation patches against nv.
[22:21] <Amaranth> RAOF: http://gould.cx/ted/presentations/scale6x/slides/62_drivers.svg.png
[22:22] <Amaranth> "nvidia is the monkey on our back"
[22:22] <RAOF> Yay!  Monkeys!
[22:22] <mjphilli_> nvidia mostly just works though
[22:22] <Amaranth> RAOF: did you see than LWN article?
[22:23] <mjphilli_> ATI has the white screen of death and is a bitch to get compiz working with it
[22:23] <RAOF> Amaranth: The first part of the nouveau update?
[22:23] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Would you like me to go through the list of problems that make me want to throw my nvidia laptop out the window?
[22:23] <Amaranth> nvidia has a "white screen of death" too
[22:23] <Amaranth> try user switcher
[22:23] <mjphilli_> Amaranth what driver do you use?
[22:23] <mjphilli_> from the repo or the website?
[22:24] <Amaranth> repo
[22:24] <mjphilli_> ok
[22:24] <Amaranth> website is no different
[22:24] <mjphilli_> umm
[22:24] <mjphilli_> i disagree, do you want to try to fix your problem?
[22:24] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: You are talking to the wrong person
[22:24] <RAOF> HEh.
[22:24] <mjphilli_> I will walk to through what i feel a pretty fail safe way, its easy
[22:25] <Amaranth> I used to maintain a l-r-m package with up-to-date nvidia drivers when they first got texture_from_pixmap support.
[22:25] <Amaranth> And my hatred of nvidia comes almost entirely from crap I run into while working on compiz
[22:26] <RAOF> mjphilli_: Incidentally, the 'white screen of death' is user error + Xgl, generally.
[22:26] <mjphilli_> i remove the restricted driver manager, blacklist nv in the restricted modules and install using the driver from the website
[22:26] <mjphilli_> works 100% of the time.
[22:26] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Magic fairy dust reinstalls will not fix my bugs
[22:26] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Because my bugs are deadlocks in the DDX and broken features.
[22:26] <Amaranth> Oh, and some awesome ACPI corruption
[22:26] <Amaranth> Oh, and some fun blinking
[22:27] <mjphilli_> that sucks
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> Fast user switching works for me
[22:27] <RAOF> And some frikkin screen update freezes between blinks!
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> (or at least doesn't crash anything)
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> dunno exactly how its supposed to work though
[22:27] <h3sp4wn> (on nvidia)
[22:27] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: If compiz is running you'll come back to a white screen.
[22:28] <h3sp4wn> Ah I don't bother with that
[22:28] <Amaranth> Because when the X server is not the active VT new textures don't get memory so they come up blank. Fullscreen gnome-screensaver == white screen
[22:28] <Amaranth> Type your password blindly and hope gnome-screensaver really is running
[22:28] <RAOF> h3sp4wn: Yeah.  If you don't use compiz, nvidia is much less annoying :P
[22:29] <Amaranth> Although many of these bugs can be triggered with games too
[22:29] <Amaranth> Just not as often and not as likely
[22:29] <mjphilli_> compiz gives me hard locks up from time to time so i just use composite in metacity
[22:29] <h3sp4wn> When compiz cooperates properly with cadence then maybe I will try it
[22:29] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: Yes, those are nvidia bugs.
[22:30] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: As a compiz dev you have no idea how frustrating that is
[22:30] <void^> nvidia drivers generally give me hardlocks every 2 to 4 days even when not using any 3d features
[22:30] <Amaranth> Even when compiz seems to be at fault (using 100% CPU and not updating the screen) if you pull up gdb to see what it is doing it always seems to be spinning somewhere inside libGL
[22:30] <Amaranth> So, again, nvidia
[22:30] <mjphilli_> Amaranth, so do you recommend ATI?
[22:31] <Amaranth> Maybe in a year
[22:31] <Amaranth> Then again in a year nouveau will probably be good to use
[22:31] <Amaranth> mjphilli_: http://gould.cx/ted/presentations/scale6x/slides/62_drivers.svg.png
[22:31] <h3sp4wn> I doubt nouveau will ever have the same performance
[22:32] <mjphilli_> unless nvidia provides documentation
[22:32] <h3sp4wn> (Unless somehow they get the specs)
[22:32] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: ha
[22:32] <Amaranth> They can already do Xvideo as fast or faster than the blob
[22:32] <RAOF> They've managed better performance on 2d than the blob (but that's presumably much easier).
[22:32] <Amaranth> And better looking too
[22:32] <Amaranth> oh, and better 2d performance
[22:32] <Amaranth> and with gallium we have the most advanced shader compiler in existence
[22:33] <h3sp4wn> One more thing quadro == tested
[22:33] <h3sp4wn> they don't care about the others as far as I can tell
[22:33] <Amaranth> quadro == geforce card they didn't disable things on
[22:33] <h3sp4wn> But they test the driver on it prior to release
[22:33] <RAOF> Yeah.  Gallium would be a big advantage for nouveau.
[22:33] <cyphase> Where's this new screen configuration tool that's mentioned in the alpha6 release notes?
[22:34] <RAOF> cyphase: Sys->Prefs->Screen Resolution
[22:34] <gil> Hmm I've just removed Nv non-free drivers, and restarted X, and now I only have one resolution option in Preferences/Screen Resolution :-\    Still defaulting to 1600 x 1200 - I'm wondering if this is maybe related to the fact that my 8600GT has twin outputs, and maybe two screens are running here somehow?
[22:34] <RAOF> Same as the old one, but shinier.
[22:34] <cyphase> ooooooh
[22:34] <RAOF> And, of course, doesn't work on nvidia.  Because randr12 is for pansies.
[22:34] <cyphase> RAOF: i was looking for a new button
[22:35]  * cyphase has an nVidia card :(
[22:35] <RAOF> cyphase: Works with nouveau :)
[22:35] <RAOF> Or nv, if you've got a nv5x.
[22:35] <cyphase> so i won't be able to change my resolution if i have an nvidia card?
[22:36] <macogw> RAOF: does nouveau do 3D yet?
[22:36] <gil> ....and I'm not sure if this is a hardy thing, but administration/screns and graphics is coming up with every option blank, and crashing hard the moment you try to do anything with it :-\
[22:36] <h3sp4wn> RAOF: Can I set the default screen with randr 1.2 properly yet ?
[22:36] <macogw> gil: we all know
[22:36] <Amaranth> macogw: experimental gallium driver for NV4x
[22:36] <macogw> tilthats on all hardy
[22:36] <macogw> wrong one
[22:36] <macogw> gil: thats on all hardy
[22:36] <gil> macogw according to the status page, nouveau does not do 3D yet
[22:36] <gil> macogw thanks
[22:37] <RAOF> gil, macogw: The status page lies.  Nouveau does OpenArena on my lappy.
[22:37] <Amaranth> gil: That's just to scare off people who won't be useful for testing ;)
[22:37] <RAOF> Or did, until they broke it.
[22:37] <macogw> gil: thing is, the new screen resolution thing has a nicer interface for marking which screen is left and right and all that, so i wouldnt be surprised if it replaces screens & graphics
[22:37] <Amaranth> Screen Resolution says "Unknown" for me
[22:37] <Amaranth> thanks a lot nvidia
[22:37] <gil> macogw it looks great - I just can't get it to set anything for me :)
[22:37] <macogw> well ill stick with Intel until Nouveau's in good shape
[22:37] <cyphase> Screens and Graphics doesn't even do anything right now in hardy
[22:37] <s3phiroth> is wine broken on hardy ?
[22:37] <macogw> gil: oh well um thats a problem
[22:38] <Amaranth> i have two monitors setup, it just has one big Unknown sized 2592x900
[22:38] <gil> macogw also, rather worringly, it gives me the option to set my resolution to "off" - that can't be right? :p
[22:38] <cyphase> it doesn't even show that any screens exist
[22:38] <macogw> cyphase: i thought they just merged one that did stuff?
[22:38] <h3sp4wn> Can it just scale nicely (Like e17 does)
[22:38] <Amaranth> Screen Resolution is a randr12 frontend
[22:38] <RAOF> Amaranth: Yeah, me too.
[22:38] <Amaranth> nvidia _still_ does not do randr12
[22:38] <Amaranth> so you can't use it
[22:38] <macogw> gil: you can only do one screen at a time while configuring
[22:38] <s3phiroth> i'm getting a Segmentation Fault everytime i try to run wine. is this happening to everyone ?
[22:38] <cyphase> macogw: i don't know about that..
[22:38] <Amaranth> s3phiroth: 55?
[22:38] <gil> RAOF / Amaranth - is the 3D support for the 8x series or just the earlier models?
[22:38] <Amaranth> s3phiroth: you need 0.9.56
[22:38] <macogw> gil: so you turn off the left screen while setting the right's resolution, then turn on left's and right's off and set left's resolution, then turn them both on
[22:38] <h3sp4wn> Amaranth: Do you think it ever will ? (or at least until either RHEL or Sun wants it badly enough)
[22:38] <Amaranth> gil: they don't even have 2D acceleration on the NV5x
[22:39] <RAOF> gil: nouveau isn't really working on nv5x.
[22:39] <s3phiroth> Amaranth: yes, 55, hardy's latest
[22:39] <RAOF> s3phiroth: Update your apt lists; 56 has been out for at least a day :)
[22:39] <Amaranth> s3phiroth: 0.9.56 is either building right now or on hold until after the alpha 6 release
[22:39] <Amaranth> oh, is it out?
[22:39] <Amaranth> i have a custom build so mine is pinned
[22:39] <s3phiroth> RAOF: oh...
[22:39] <s3phiroth> let me check
[22:39]  * RAOF used aptitude forbid-version, so it automatically updated to the not-broken version.
[22:40] <s3phiroth> oh, yes it is. let me upgrade it then.
[22:40] <macogw> cyphase: i saw something about it on planet the other day...lemme look for it
[22:41] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: nvidia will never do randr12, they refuse
[22:41] <Amaranth> h3sp4wn: supposedly they'd do randr13, whenever that gets done
[22:41] <gil> macogw - thing is, I'm only running one screen - I think something got confused somehow. I tried disabling twinview manually in the devices section of xorg.conf, but still no joy :-\
[22:41] <s3phiroth> by the way, is anyone around here using an ati mobility x2300 on hardy ?
[22:41] <macogw> cyphase: http://bryceharrington.org/drupal/display-config-1
[22:41] <cyphase> macogw: i think i saw that already..
[22:41] <gil> Amaranth / RAOF kk was just checking that part of the status was up to date, or set to scare people off also :)
[22:41] <macogw> gil: there's not supposed to be much of anything in xorg.conf in hardy
[22:41] <cyphase> yea, i did
[22:42] <RAOF> gil: You'd be wanting to disable "dynamic twinview", which will make nvidia report the actual refresh rate.
[22:42] <cyphase> macogw: that's the thing that replaces System -> Preferences -> Screen Resolution
[22:42] <macogw> cyphase: yeah
[22:42] <cyphase> macogw: not Screens and Graphics
[22:42] <RAOF> gil: I'd suggest checking out nvidia-xconfig --advanced-help.  I don't manually edit xorg.conf :)
[22:42] <s3phiroth> oh wow ! wine is running :)
[22:42] <macogw> cyphase: well that *is* the screen resolution thing...uh but what doesnt it do that screens & graphics does?  set the driver.  that's it.
[22:43] <cyphase> s3phiroth: you must be really drunk if your alcohol is running from you
[22:43] <gil> RAOF so you don't think "dynamictwinview" "false" is a good route to go?
[22:43] <s3phiroth> cyphase: hah !
[22:43] <s3phiroth> it...grew legs !
[22:44] <s3phiroth> the fonts are a bit weirdish but at least it's running
[22:44] <cyphase> anyone know when alpha6 is coming?
[22:44] <RAOF> gil: Oh, that's probably what nvidia-xconfig will stick in your xorg.conf.  I'm just not sure where it needs to be.
[22:44] <s3phiroth> and on my new laptop it's blazing fast
[22:44] <gil> RAOF I tried putting it under devices, but it seemed to ignore it - I'm going to vanish for 5 minutes and try and reinstall non-free and try adding it through nvidia-xconfig this time :)
[22:46] <macogw> OOo still isnt fixed
[22:46] <macogw> still cant install updates
[22:46] <macogw> grrr
[22:50] <Amaranth> macogw: I have no idea what you're talking about
[22:50] <Amaranth> I'm fulling up-to-date
[22:50] <Amaranth> err, fully
[22:51] <macogw> Amaranth: The following packages have unmet dependencies: openoffice.org: Depends: openoffice.org-writer2latex which is a virtual package.
[22:51] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[22:51] <Amaranth> you got issues
[22:52] <macogw> and it wants to remove openoffice.org, openclipart-openoffice.org, and leave openoffice.org-writer's dependence on openoffice.org-writer2latex unresolved
[22:52] <h3sp4wn> Thats a recommend
[22:52] <h3sp4wn> (I got that but aptitude did the sane thing)
[22:52] <macogw> that IS aptitude
[22:52] <macogw> it wants to remove openoffice.org though
[22:53] <macogw> which i guess might be a virtualpackage....
[22:53] <h3sp4wn> just do a safe-upgrade
[22:53] <h3sp4wn> or change aptitude to not treat recommends as dependencies
[22:53] <gil> RAOF Success :)  nvidia-xconfig --disable-dynamic-twinview worked like a charm
[22:53] <willis_> thats weird. I did a update & upgrade, then when i logged in, restricted-manager tool THEN decided to let me upgrade the nvidia drivers.
[22:53] <RAOF> gil: Woho!
[22:54] <willis_> I would of thought it would of auto-upgrade them.. since i was allready using them
[22:54] <willis_> using twinview here also. :)
[22:54] <willis_> what does dynamic do? never used that optiun
[22:54] <gil> RAOF so now, in Screen Resolution, it is able to detect all the refresh rates my monitor is capable of - it doesn't want to change resolution though, but at least I solved half of my problem :)
[22:54] <h3sp4wn> willis_: same sort of thing xrandr 1.2 does
[22:55] <willis_> I just got an issue with KDM/GDM appearing on the wrong screen. :)
[22:55] <willis_> but thats fixable in kdm/gdm configs
[22:57] <willis_> Heh. NOW it wants a reboot.. :) go figure.. couldent of tole me that 10 min ago..
[22:59] <Amaranth> that's fixable in gdm config?
[22:59] <Amaranth> i thought that was because nvidia was stupid and setting my external monitor as the primary
[22:59] <willis_> yes. :) you have to manually edit the config file
[22:59] <strabes> what's the story with alpha 6?
[22:59] <strabes> isn't it supposed to come out today?
[22:59] <macogw> strabes: not out yet
[22:59] <Amaranth> because obviously the one physically attached to my laptop is not the main screen
[23:00] <Amaranth> willis_: change what?
[23:00] <strabes> oh, bummer
[23:00] <macogw> something about a bug thats too bad to release with
[23:00] <willis_> Amaranth,   I though the problem was with X being stupud. :) but I am on a desktop, so which one is the primary. :)
[23:00] <willis_> Amaranth,  theres some default screen to start gdm on, setting in the gdmrc
[23:00] <Amaranth> i don't do multiscreen though
[23:00] <Amaranth> i have twinview
[23:00] <willis_> I nogiced the nvidia-xconfig tool had a check box for primary monitor also.
[23:00] <Amaranth> one screen stretched over two monitors
[23:00] <willis_> Amaranth,  yes. but gdm still sort of sees it as 2 screens
[23:01] <Amaranth> that nvidia-settings checkbox does something that breaks nvidia's emulation of xinerama
[23:01] <Amaranth> so panels blow over both monitors and alt-f2 dialog is half-and-half and etc
[23:01] <willis_> twinview is doing some tweaking., twinview normally REpLACES xinerama  - i dont think you want to enable ximerama and twinviewq both
[23:01] <Amaranth> no no
[23:01] <Amaranth> randr12 and twinview both pretend to be xinerama
[23:02] <Amaranth> they set the "xinerama hints" so applications know what is going on and don't "center" themselves half on one monitor and half on the other
[23:02] <willis_> From what ive seen If i enable xinerama - i get those problems you mentioned.  I enble twinviww, disable xinerama, and have no idea on randr12 :) never used that befior
[23:02] <willis_> even with twinview ive seen some dumb apps still go in the middle.
[23:02] <Amaranth> right, because they don't read the xinerama hints
[23:03] <willis_> that makes vmware a real pain that they dont do that. :) it may be fixed in vmware however.
[23:04] <macogw> the new intel wireless isnt in l-r-m, right?
[23:04] <macogw> its unrestricted, right? it doesnt show in the restricted manager
[23:05] <willis_> well time to reboot this puppy and see what the new kernel offers. :)
[23:07] <Amaranth> macogw: right, it's included in 2.6.24 and has no control daemon
[23:07] <Amaranth> it's just driver and firmware
[23:08] <Amaranth> the firmware is in linux-ubuntu-modules
[23:08] <cyphase> does anyone else find it annoying that if the system "thumbnails" a video before installing codecs, after you install the codecs, it doesn't re-thumbail the files?
[23:08] <cyphase> i know i can just delete the ~/.thumbnail directory..
[23:09] <cyphase> but that's not a really good solution
[23:10] <macogw> Amaranth: so why do i have l-r-m?
[23:10] <Amaranth> because it's pulled in automatically
[23:10] <Amaranth> better to have the driver and not need it than need it and not have it, i guess
[23:12] <macogw> if i purge them will they go away from my vrms?
[23:12] <macogw> or will they keep messing up my score?
[23:13] <Amaranth> vrms? are you serious?
[23:13] <macogw> oh purge does work
[23:13] <macogw> mythtv sent it to heck anyway
[23:13]  * RAOF wonders what vrms is, and how it has a "score".
[23:13] <macogw> RAOF: Virtual Richard M Stallman
[23:14] <macogw> counts what % of your packages are non-free
[23:14] <RAOF> Right.  That was what I was thinking.
[23:14] <macogw> 1.6% now that i got rid of l-r-m
[23:14] <macogw> why are the ubuntu human icons non-free though?
[23:14] <macogw> i dont get it
[23:14] <Amaranth>   9 non-free packages, 0.6% of 1611 installed packages.
[23:14] <cyphase> anyone know what package that would fall under? that tumbnail bug..
[23:14] <macogw> i tango is because its CC not GPL
[23:14] <Amaranth> macogw: they're creative commons
[23:14] <macogw> oh ok
[23:14] <cyphase> thumbnail*
[23:15] <Amaranth> macogw: CC licenses are not DFSG-Free
[23:15] <macogw> i dont really get why CC is considered non-free
[23:15] <Amaranth> cyphase: nautilus
[23:15] <macogw> huh?
[23:15] <Amaranth> macogw: Debian Free Software Guidelines
[23:15] <macogw> CC-SA is pretty much identical to the GPL
[23:15] <macogw> oh
[23:15] <Amaranth> Nope, not legally
[23:15]  * hydrogen giggles
[23:15] <hydrogen> omg ITS NOT FREE ENOUGH
[23:15] <macogw> whats the difference? it says if you use it you have to use the same license that says "share!"
[23:16] <hydrogen> My virtual rms is better endowed than your virtual rms!
[23:16] <Amaranth> DFSG is stricter than FSF, according to the DFSG the GFDL is non-Free
[23:16] <askand> Anyone knows anything about alpha 6?
[23:16] <macogw> well i cant purge myth til my school project is done
[23:16] <Amaranth> GFDL is from the FSF :P
[23:16] <macogw> askand: held up by a bug
[23:16] <macogw> Amaranth: i know
[23:16] <hydrogen> mostly because debian users need a way to feel like they are better than everyone else
[23:16] <Amaranth> linux-generic             Complete Generic Linux kernel
[23:16] <Amaranth> wth
[23:16] <Amaranth> oh, it pulls in linux-restricted-modules
[23:16] <Amaranth> which i need, nvidia
[23:17] <askand> macogw: ok thanks
[23:17] <macogw> mine's all mythtv, human icons, tangerine icons, and spim (MIPS emulator for school)
[23:18] <Amaranth> vrms is not very precise though, gnewsense has stripped individual files out of the kernel because they aren't free enough
[23:18] <macogw> i think flash should be on the list too, but it came along when i copied my ~/.mozilla or something so vrms doesnt know about it
[23:18] <macogw> i really wish more media was available as oggs :(
[23:18] <Amaranth> so according to gnewsense the pristine upstream kernel tree is apparently not free enough :P
[23:19] <macogw> wow
[23:19] <Amaranth> yeah
[23:19] <Amaranth> apparently there are some files that they say are just non-Free firmware converted into mostly unreadable C code
[23:20] <macogw> oh like the NV drivers?
[23:20] <macogw> super-duper-obfuscated crap?
[23:20] <Amaranth> something like that
[23:20] <Amaranth> they probably don't ship nv either
[23:34] <cyphase> Alpha 6 is coming down..
[23:38] <h3sp4wn> The gnewsense take seems a little extreme to me when they support running with a non-free bios
[23:39] <naught101> have there been any updates in the last few hours?
[23:40] <h3sp4wn> And they don't even support ppc - pegasos open desktop workstation is the only machine I know with fully open everything
[23:42] <cyphase> Alpha 6 is here!
[23:42] <cyphase> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-6/
[23:58] <NoelJB> Ah, I love the smell of alpha code in the evening ... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/releases/hardy/alpha-6/
[23:59] <pwnguin> why do people come in here and advertise new alphas?