nixternalevand: isn't adding Jockey to Gobuntu going against its purpose?00:31
TheMusonixternal: I think its due to the seed inherritance. Let me check the seeds to be sure.00:32
ion_AFAIU, it’s suitable for free third-party drivers as well.00:32
nixternalya, that could lead to very bad publicity00:33
TheMusoWell, I think its in the gobuntu seeds proper, as its not in the platform seeds. Pulling gobuntu seeds to have a better look.00:34
slangasekjockey is also supposed to be a general-purpose driver manager now00:35
slangasekbut unseeding it shouldn't hurt either00:36
nixternalslangasek: ahhhh, general-purpose is cool...I thought it was just going to be the new 'restricted-manager'00:36
slangaseknixternal: nah, it got renamed because the scope has expanded to include management of free drivers00:37
slangasekOTOH, I'm not sure there currently are any free drivers that it would suitably manage for gobuntu00:37
mguneshi all00:38
mgunesslangasek, how much time do I have to add to the alpha 6 release notes?00:38
slangasekmgunes: around 12 hours, if everything else goes according to plan00:38
mgunesslangasek, thanks, I'll see what I can do00:40
mathiazslangasek: can I add a section about windows integration (likewise-open) even if the package is in universe ?00:40
mathiazslangasek: to do the Alpha6 release notes00:40
slangasekmathiaz: sure; you're looking to get more testing feedback, I suppose?00:41
mathiazslangasek: yes !00:41
slangasekwe've pointed people at packages while they were still in universe before; e.g., ufw, ff-300:41
mathiazslangasek: ok - I'll update the Release Notes then00:42
mathiazslangasek: oh - and also a section about iscsi00:42
* Hobbsee waves00:44
ScottKIt's be cool if zul could upload ebox in time to make the release notes too.00:48
* Hobbsee gives irc +100:49
=== TheMuso__ is now known as TheMuso
Kanohi, is it possible to add a script to the image which is outside the compressed part and execute it on startup?00:59
Kanofor the live cds00:59
Kanoi would like to execute something before X starts01:00
TheMusoKano: Have you looked at the way casper works?01:00
Kanowell i looked but did not see it01:01
Kanodo you know more about casper01:02
TheMusoKano: For a start, there are the several scripts in scripts/casper-bottom that do a lot of stuff.01:02
Kanothats too early for me01:02
Kanoi need internet access01:03
mathiazslangasek: I've updated the ReleaseNotes for Alpha601:03
TheMusoKano: Then you probably have to modify the squashfs image.01:03
Kanobest would be after networking/network-manager and before x01:04
Kanoalso i see no option to stop network-manager from running01:04
Kanoyou could maybe delete the startup links for network-manager(-dispatcher) if a nodhcp option is used01:05
slangasekmathiaz: cheers01:05
TheMusoPerhaps, but it would need discussion, probably at the next UDS for example.01:06
TheMusoUbuntu Developer's Summit.01:07
Kanowhen is that01:07
TheMusoKano: I thought you had been around this community for long enough by now to know what that means.01:07
Kanoi am no ubuntu developer, i only use parts currently01:08
TheMusoIt is in May.01:08
Kanowhat are ubiquity-hooks?01:13
* Hobbsee suggests RTFMing01:14
Hobbseeor looking at the source01:15
Kanowhich manual for casper?01:15
* Hobbsee thought there only was one...01:17
Kanodo you call your installer ubiquity?01:18
Kanoa really logical name...01:22
=== amit is now known as amitk
Kanocould somebody remove patch 03* from syslinux? because of that the menu.c32 countdown is always 001:25
Kanousally 0 is never shown, 1 would be the last01:26
Kanoin that test i boot kubuntu via pxe with a modified pxelinux.cfg/default derived from isolinux.cfg01:27
Kanoif you drop patch 03 it counts down the 10 timeout i set01:28
* Hobbsee suggests bugs work better than irc, particularly during au day.01:32
TheMusoHobbsee: Not just particularly during au day, but any time.01:35
_MMA_Kano: After watching you over various Ubuntu IRC channels I wish you would start working *with* this community and its processes and not just take. You've been asked many times to file bugs on issues, on various channels. If you cant be bothered to do it, I wouldn't expect people to bother with you.01:56
Kano_MMA_: i filed already too many bugs01:57
slangasek"too many bugs"?01:57
Kanomost of em are against the kernel01:58
* cody-somerville pokes asac in the tummy.01:58
_MMA_I would also say being a part of various mailing lists are a good thing. -kernel, -devel, -devel-discuss, -motu01:58
Kanomailing lists are something what i absolutely hate01:59
crimsuncody-somerville: if it's WRT n-m, it's fixed in -0ubuntu3.02:00
_MMA_Kano: A sometimes unfortunate necessity. Patches with bugs also go a long way. And in the end, people might not agree with the patch and it doesn't go in. Just the way it goes sometimes.02:00
Kanoi have got already a fixed version. just a i do not create live cds based on ubuntu yet it is a bit difficult to change what i want02:02
slangasekcrimsun: um?  what's broken with n-m?02:02
crimsunslangasek: uninitialized priv struct in nm-supplicant.c02:03
Kanoto explain how that works with kanotix -> identify bug -> fix bug -> package updated02:03
slangasekcrimsun: should I be stopping this CD build I'm running specifically to pull in the n-m update, then?02:03
Kanono launchpad or something needed02:03
crimsunslangasek: very much so.  You want -0ubuntu3 on the CD build.02:03
* cody-somerville nods.02:04
crimsunslangasek: the effect being that all wireless broke02:04
slangasekand when will -0ubuntu3 be available?  I currently only see -0ubuntu1 in the archive02:04
slangasekheh, "published 38 seconds ago"02:04
slangasekok then02:04
TheMusoI was going to say, I saw it hit hardy-changes a few minutes ago.02:05
* ScottK would have avoided that bug by virtue of having lost the wireless card for his Hardy laptop.02:06
* cody-somerville is sitting on the floor by his router with a 15" ethernet cable :(02:07
TheMusocody-somerville: lol02:09
Kanocody-somerville: did you ever think of using a router with dd-wrt or similar in client bridge mode?02:09
* cody-somerville did not think of that, no.02:09
Kanoworks beautifully, no drivers needed for wlan cards, you can connect as many clients as you like to02:10
Kanofor 2-3 pc in the same room even cheaper than wlan cards02:10
Kanoi have got wlan cards, but use em only for driver testing02:12
* cody-somerville really hates the changes to the theme.02:18
Hobbseeah yes, the new theme02:20
Hobbseeblack text on dark shiny windeco really isn't a good combination02:20
slangasekcody-somerville: that reminds me; do you want to have a look at what needs to be done to get xubuntu i386 alternate down to size for alpha-6?02:20
cody-somervilleslangasek, Sure02:21
slangasekcody-somerville: a metapackage update would probably help some, I removed from fonts from the platform seed that ArneGoetje says aren't needed; but i386 is currently 29MB oversize, so more is needed02:22
* cody-somerville nods.02:22
slangaseks/from/some/ # need some rum02:23
cody-somervilleslangasek, I noticed in the manifest for the live cd, there are duplication applications02:26
cody-somervilleslangasek, I think xubuntu-meta needs to be regenerated and uploaded02:26
slangasekcody-somerville: hrrm, you're not MOTU?02:27
ScottKHobbsee: Would you please ack Bug #198160?02:28
ubotuLaunchpad bug 198160 in rails "Please sync package 'rails' 2.0.2-1 from debian sid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19816002:28
cody-somervilleslangasek, Not yet.02:28
ScottKNote that despite the title. it's a merge.02:28
ScottKThe reporter thought it would be a sync, but we got that worked out.02:28
slangasekcody-somerville: right; well, do you want to have a look at whether any other seed changes are needed?  then I can upload xubuntu-meta for you02:29
HobbseeScottK2: looks fine02:29
ScottKOK.  Are you going to mark it in LP or do you want me to?02:30
ScottKHobbsee: ^^02:30
slangasekHobbsee, ScottK: knetworkmanager seems to still need a rebuild against libnl1, now that n-m is (theoretically) working with it, do either of you want to check that a no-change rebuild will DTRT?02:30
slangasekTonio_: or you, if you're around ^^02:30
ScottKslangasek: Well see my earlier comment about lost the wireless card for the laptop I have Hardy on.02:31
cody-somervilleslangasek, I just got a phone call and I gotta jet now but off the top of my head, example-content can be removed.02:31
ScottKI can check for wired use, but I dunno if that'll help or not.02:31
Tonio_slangasek: I can do that on friday02:31
Tonio_slangasek: no time for this now...02:31
slangasekScottK: ah, right; as we've seen, wired-only testing of n-m does not give us good coverage ;)02:32
Hobbseeslangasek: not easily from here.  will probably be tomorrow as well02:32
slangasekTonio_: ok - I'll just leave the package alone for alpha-6 then02:32
Tonio_slangasek: no problem :)02:32
Tonio_3:30 am and I have to wake up at 7...... and I'm still not done with the job :/02:33
* Hobbsee ponders actually doing some work02:34
Hobbseedear 'doze, please stop munging the formatting.  if you have to do so, at least be consistent!02:38
ScottKslangasek: Due to the universe/main backport problem (db 4.6 this time) postfix backport in Gutsy also dep waits.  For that one I can trivially do a source backport to switch back to db4.3 (what the released postfix uses).  How about I do that instead of you messing with republishing it in Universe?03:02
Neon_lightsuhm, hi y'all. =] I'd just like to say thanks for all your work. <303:12
=== keescook_ is now known as keescook
Hobbseewow, quiet04:29
TheMusoHrm. I just got some weird keyboard behavior, after updating, restarting, and logging back into GNOME.04:53
TheMusoUsing gedit, after a while when typing text, I started typing characters that appeared to be for another language...04:53
Hobbseeit's the start of text-input-via-brainwaves.  Stop thinking in other languages.04:54
TheMusoHrm something appears to be broken, even on a fresh hardy install, using en_AU.UTF-8 locale, with a US layout.05:03
* TheMuso updates from a.u.c to be sure.05:03
RAOFTheMuso: Have you been accidentally hitting shift-space?  That brings up some scim dialog which then eats a keypress & switches languages.05:11
StevenKOne of my ex-workmates used to run SCIM on his machine so he could type Japanese, and the amount of times I'd accidently hit shift-space suprised me a lot.05:12
RAOFGo _away_, scim-bridge!05:12
ScottKGood night all.05:12
slangasekScottK: sounds fine to me... :)05:32
slangasekRiddell: hummm, you verified network-manager-kde still works before uploading it, right?  It's been rebuilt against the new upstream version of libnl now, and I'm in the midst of rerolling alpha-6 images06:59
asacslangasek: all fine now for nm?07:07
asac-gnome didn't need an update to still work ... why does -kde need it?07:07
slangasekasac: ah, I assume it's fine now, because no one's told me about (or milestoned) any bugs saying it's broken07:08
slangasekasac: -kde didn't need an update to work, it /got/ an update for something else and as a result picked up libnl107:08
asacslangasek: yeah. we shouldn't need it07:08
slangasekso I have no idea if the old -kde works ok with the new libnl07:09
asacslangasek: it should. i don't think it uses libnl on its own (at least i cannot see it in Depends: of my apt-cache)07:09
asacanyway, theoretical questions ;)07:10
slangasekit does depend on libnl07:10
slangasekPackage: network-manager-kde07:10
slangasekDepends: [...] libnl1-pre607:10
asacoh really. what a messy thing. it should interact with nm and not libnl07:10
asacif its fixed. fine07:11
warp10Good morning07:11
slangasek"theoretical questions" - these kind of questions are part of why you freeze before milestones...07:11
dholbachgood morning07:12
asaci ment theoretical because you said that it works now.07:12
slangasekI have no idea if network-manager-kde works07:12
slangasekI have no idea if it's been tested at all07:12
asacslangasek: wfm07:25
slangasekwell, images are posted then - now we just need to get people testing them... :)07:28
asacslangasek: where? its likely that i get a new notebook any minute. could use that to test ;)07:29
StevenKasac: Ooh. What's due?07:29
asacstandard lenovo thing 12''07:29
tjaaltonasac: X300?-)07:30
asacnot yet :(07:32
tjaaltondang :)07:34
slangasekasac: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all07:43
pittiGood morning07:46
asachi pitti07:47
pittislangasek: waiting for ack> the hal FF07:48
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
=== hunger_t is now known as hunger
pittiah, I think I know why my keyboard is all broken for a few days08:14
* pitti blames scim08:14
pittimartin   11958  0.0  0.0      0     0 ?        Z    08:40   0:00 [scim] <defunct>08:14
stgraberpitti: any idea why gnome-power-manager always show 100% (Current rate and Design rate stay at 0 :( ) ? I tried with the new hal, reseted my gnome-power-manager settings and gconf, ...08:15
stgrabermy next try will be to test with alpha-6's livecd (downloading now)08:15
pittiwhy do we install scim by default now for European languages?08:15
pittiseb128: ^ that might be one reason why the keyboard switch applet doesn't work any more?08:16
seb128pitti: I've no clue about scim so not sure08:16
slangasekstgraber: what kernel version?08:16
pittiArneGoetje: why do we install scim by default now for European languages?08:16
stgraberslangasek: 2.6.24-11-generic on amd64 (HP Compaq nx7400)08:17
slangasekstgraber: ok, no idea then :)08:18
slangasekI was having g-p-m issues before the last time I restarted; don't know if those were kernel or hal though08:19
stgraberthat's weird because it correctly detects manufacturer, technology and the charge rate but is unable to give me the charge status (stuck at 100% all time)08:20
ArneGoetjepitti: this is because of update-alternatives... it is called by scim to set the preferred modules.. and that one automatically enables scim for all_ALL08:29
ArneGoetjepitti: we need to call 'sudo im-switch -z all_ALL -s none' explicitely to disable it.08:30
slytherinHi all. I was wondering if we are planning to take advantage of the network manager's GSM capabilities (http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2008/03/02/networkmanager-your-gsm-mobile-and-you/) by adding appropriate information to .fdi files.08:34
cjwatsonArneGoetje: or we should change the alternative priorities in scim.postinst - update-alternatives is just doing what it's told :-)08:43
* seb128_ kicks network-manager dropping network on upgrade08:43
stgraberhehe, mine did that while I was connected to the net over VPN :)08:45
ArneGoetjecjwatson: exactly. but if we change the priority to none, scim will never work for non-cjk locales.08:46
ArneGoetjecjwatson: the way it should interact with language-selector is: to disable scim, call 'sudo im-switch -z all_ALL -s none', to enable scim call: 'sudo im-switch -z all_ALL -a' (this sets it to automatic, which will use the priorities as they have been defined.08:49
ArneGoetjecjwatson: if we want to disable scim by default for all_ALL, we need to call 'sudo im-switch -z all_ALL -s none' *after* scim _and_ im-switch have been installed.08:51
ArneGoetjethe reason why this behaviour has not been triggered before is simple: im-switch was not installed by default (which disabled scim altogether, not only for non-cjk locales).08:52
ArneGoetjeso, suggestion is: add im-switch to Pre-Depends in scim and call im-switch to disable it for all_ALL by default in scim.postinst after the priorities have been set.08:54
ArneGoetjeif this solution is acceptable, then I will change the scim package right away.08:55
=== Sp4rKy_ is now known as Sp4rKy
cjwatsonArneGoetje: is it desirable for scim to work for non-CJK locales?09:01
cjwatsonI suppose if you are in a German locale and writing Chinese09:02
ArneGoetjecjwatson: yes.09:02
davmor2is anyone else having issues with rsyncing the iso's from cdimages.ubuntu.com?  I keeps dying on me :(09:02
cjwatsonit just seems like a bit of an edge case, and caused confusion on #ubuntu-devel within hours of being activated09:02
cjwatsonI think it should be off by default09:02
cjwatsonand perhaps enableable in some GUI way09:03
ArneGoetjecjwatson: basically any overseas CJK speakers and CJK language learners would want it to work for their locale.09:03
ArneGoetjecjwatson: that's what language-selector is supposed to do.09:03
ArneGoetjebut this feature has not been properly implemented before. It was just not triggered, because im-switch only got installed when adding a CJK language pack.09:04
ArneGoetjeso, if my proposed solution is OK, I will change the scim package that way.09:05
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
ArneGoetjeso, comments please... I'm waiting :)09:10
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
mvoArneGoetje: I think the defaul for all_ALL should be to point to "none" in im-switch09:22
mvoArneGoetje: I think that is how it was back in ~dapper :)09:22
mvoArneGoetje: we then can use language-selector to turn it on. what do you think?09:23
ArneGoetjemvo: but this would be overwritten by scim.postinst, won't it?09:23
mvoArneGoetje: hm, wouldn't it be enough to remove the "ua_inst all_ALL scim 0" from the scim postinst ? or modify it to point to "none" instead of scim?09:25
=== bigon` is now known as bigon
ArneGoetjemvo: no. that would disable scim permanently for all_ALL. it would never work until you set another module with a higher priority for all_ALL09:26
* ogra doesnt understand, cant you start it on a per desktop/user base ? if so, why not use an /etc/xdg/autostart/ with a scrit wrapper that checks for a gconf key or so so the system wide stuff to globally enble the setup comes from postinst, but the .desktop file does the user related rest09:27
mvoArneGoetje: hm, my impression was that "im-switch -z all_ALL -s scim" overwrites that - we would use that in language-selector then to activate scim for all_ALL if the user wants it09:28
ArneGoetjemvo: no. wrong.09:28
ArneGoetjemvo: the command called by language-selector should be 'im-switch -z all_ALL -a'!09:29
ArneGoetjemvo: this switches it into 'auto' mode, means it uses that module with the highest priority in u-a.09:29
mvoArneGoetje: but that would mean that we have to leave scim enabled otherwise -a will not pick it up09:29
mvo(for all users, even those who are not interessted in it)09:30
ArneGoetjemvo: the priorities are set by scim.postinst (scim-bridge 60, scim 50, scim-immodule 0). and this is used when set to 'auto' mode.09:31
ogramvo, see my comment above .... let scim be started by an xdg file and check the lang selector value during login if there is nothing requiring scim it wont be started09:31
ArneGoetjemvo: to disable scim, use '-s none'. this forces scim to use 'none' instead of 'auto'09:31
mvoArneGoetje: if we do not want to have scim enabled for all_ALL  (that is what colin mentioned earlier), then were do we call '-s none'?09:33
ArneGoetjemvo: if you use '-s scim' to enable scim, you will force the 'scim' module instead of 'auto'. means if the user prefers to use scim-bridge for example, it will be overwritten by language-selector... and we don't want that.09:33
ArneGoetjemvo: if you uncheck the checkbox in language-selector, '-s none' should be called.09:34
mvoArneGoetje: I think we are talking past each other, the problem we want to solve is how to make all_ALL not enabled by default for everybody, right?09:34
mvo(even with im-switch installed by default)09:34
ArneGoetjemvo: I have proposed a solution a couple of pages up...09:34
mvoArneGoetje: "let language-selector" do it?09:35
ArneGoetje16:54 < ArneGoetje> so, suggestion is: add im-switch to Pre-Depends in scim and call im-switch to disable it for all_ALL by default in scim.postinst after the priorities have been set.09:35
mvoaha, I think your wrote that before I logged in, sorry09:36
ArneGoetjethis way the default for all_ALL would be '-s none'. if the user want's scim, he can enable the checkbox in language-selector, which would call '-a' to set it to 'auto', which in turn uses the module with the highest priority...09:37
ArneGoetjeI have uploaded a new scim package to rookery (~arne/scim/), with these changes. So, if anyone wants to take a look, please go ahead.09:38
ArneGoetjemvo: I have updated my l-s/arne branch last night. did you take a look already?09:39
mvomaking im-switch a pre-depend (its currently a recommends) sounds a bit drastic to me - I would prefer to make it the other way around (default none and explicitely enable it). but its your packages09:40
mvoArneGoetje: no, sorry. haven't looked at it yet09:40
ArneGoetjemvo: the im-switch package does not set any defaults.09:40
mvoright, I was thinking about changing them in scim09:41
ArneGoetjemvo: but to set any defaults in sim.postinst, im-switch must have been installed already, otherwise the 'none' file doesn't exist and the symlink would fail!09:42
mvowe also need to be sure that no tool runs "im-switch -a", otherwise we would get the (possible) unwanted side-effect of suddently having scim enabled for all users09:42
ArneGoetjemvo: currently no package call '-a'09:42
mvother eis currently a line:        ua_inst all_ALL scim  009:43
mvoin the scim.postinst09:43
mvoit dosn't need im-switch, it just sets up alternative in /etc/X11/xinit/xinput.d/09:43
ArneGoetjemvo: I suggest you do 'dpkg -L im-switch' and 'dpkg -L scim' and see which files get installed into /etc/X11/xinit/xinput.d/ by which package. I hope this makes it clear once and for all. :)09:45
=== doko_ is now known as doko
ArneGoetjemvo: further more, im-switch install /etc/X11/Xsession.d/80im-switch , which is needed to eanable the locale specific im-switch settings. Without it scim won't work at all, no matter what is set in u-a.09:47
cjwatsonArneGoetje: (pre-depends is only needed if you're doing something in the preinst, or need something to be in place before the package is unpacked; it isn't needed for use in the postinst)09:47
cjwatsonArneGoetje: (for the latter, plain depends is just fine)09:47
ArneGoetjecjwatson: ok, will change that... hang on.09:48
cjwatsonArneGoetje: it just seems weird to call im-switch explicitly when setting appropriate alternative priorities would have the same effect09:48
cjwatsonthe default should be identical to what you get when everything is in auto mode09:49
xhakercjwatson: scim doesn't ship the profile 'none'. if it did, he could just u-a on the .postinst09:49
pittimvo: does compiz session management work for you? how do you save your session?09:51
xhakerif i'm looking into this correctly. a solution would be to ship 'none' in scim, and remove it from im-switch09:51
mvopitti: yes, I had to modify gnome-session-properties to set it to "save session on logout"09:51
ArneGoetjecjwatson: the user can decide which moule he wants to use by default by adjusting the priorities in u-a. The priorities set by scim.postinst is just a suggestion (and in our case the default setting). if we hardcode a specific module as default by givig it a higher priority when enabling the checkbox in l-s, we will setup those users which have tweaked the settings to their liking.09:51
pittimvo: ah, using 'gnome-session-save' or the button 'save now' in g-s-props doesn't work?09:51
pittimvo: (usually I just want to save it once)09:52
mvopitti: that should work too09:52
mvopitti: is it not for you?09:52
pittihm, I used the button last time09:52
pittiwith no effect09:52
mvopitti: you saved it when the new compiz (with session plugin) was on the system already09:52
pittiyes, of course09:52
ArneGoetjecjwatson: that's why I suggest we don't touch the priorities for 'auto' mode and just toggle scim on/off by setting im-switch to -a (== on) or -s none (== off)09:53
pittimvo:how do I tell if the plugin is enabled?09:53
mvopitti: ccsm will tell you, I set it to enabled by default so if you haven't modified your plugins then it should be on09:53
mvopitti: its called "session" (surprise :) in ccsm09:53
* pitti boots laptop and installs ccsm09:54
cjwatsonArneGoetje: "the user can decide which moule he wants to use by default by adjusting the priorities in u-a." that's not the way update-alternatives works09:54
ArneGoetjecjwatson: then how should it work?09:54
cjwatsonArneGoetje: the package sets priorities, the highest of which is the default; the user may override by picking a single one manually, not by changing the priorities09:54
cjwatsonArneGoetje: the priorities should always be set by us to represent what we think should be the default09:55
mvoogra: about your suggestion, currently langauge-selector runs as root (yes :( and this is why we can't set per-user settings. something we should fix for hardy+109:55
cjwatsonArneGoetje: it doesn't make sense to have this complicated system of priorities and then have the package override it at the end09:55
ogramvo, i'm planning a spec to get rid of all unused background porcesses for prague09:55
ograwe waste a ton of ressources with crap we start but the user will never need, that should be fixed imho09:56
ArneGoetjecjwatson: then how would we enable scim by checking the checkbox in l-s? which module should be used by default? and why should we force to run 'im-switch -s $his_preferred_module' every time after he enabled the checkbox in l-s?09:56
ArneGoetjeforce the user...09:56
cjwatsonArneGoetje: checking the checkbox in l-s could select the next one down in priority order that isn't 'none' or 'default', I guess09:57
cjwatsoncertainly the user should not have to run some other command by hand as well as using l-s09:57
mvoogra: what are those?09:58
ArneGoetjecjwatson: that's the same bastardized usage of im-switch as I proposed just the other way round.09:58
cjwatsonArneGoetje: in a multi-user environment where multiple users may have different locales, we simply can't use im-switch in the postinst sanely09:58
pittimvo: ccsm> is that the simple-ccsm package?09:58
cjwatsonim-switch has to be a per-user thing09:58
mvopitti: if you install simple-ccsm it will get pulled in (as a dependency)09:59
ogramvo, example: enabling bluetooth even if we dont have the HW etc ... its jut silly, we have udev that can detect hotplugged bluetooth HW so we can switch it on the fly if needed and dont need to start a system service for it all the time09:59
ogra(if there is no such HW on boot)09:59
ogramany things could benefit from better automation here09:59
mvoogra: yeah, same for some hplip stuff I guess (not sure if this is still running)09:59
ArneGoetjecjwatson: in that case we wouldn'e be able to use l-s either, because that one changes the settings system wide.10:00
cjwatsonalthough I guess that using the -z switch to im-switch makes that less of a problem10:00
ograif i see the classmate dektop where i actually can get a workable gnome then i also see that 80% og the stuff i have runniong by default is useless in this HW10:00
ograand the wasted ram is not in a kilobyte range rather tens of MB10:01
ArneGoetjecjwatson: if im-switch is called in a user environment it will overwrite the system settings anyways.10:01
cjwatsonwhich is how it should be10:01
ArneGoetjecjwatson: we are talking about running im-switch as root10:01
cjwatsonI understand that, yes10:02
cjwatsoncertainly, language-selector is conflating system-wide configuration (installing packages) and user configuration (enabling input method support)10:02
cjwatsonso eventually it probably ought to use policykit to escalate privileges just for the system-wide bit10:02
mvocjwatson: yes, absolutely10:02
cjwatsonbut I doubt that'll happen for hardy now, unless mvo has a trick up his sleeve10:02
ArneGoetjecjwatson: yes. and that enabling input method support uses im-switch as root to set sane defaults.10:03
pittimvo: installed, called ccsm, it immediately crashes on me :/10:03
cjwatsonwhich is a mistake, because it means that me playing around with input methods forces them on my wife using the same computer10:03
mvocjwatson: its not too much work to port it so that it runs as the user, but there is little time :/10:03
mvopitti: what is the backtrace?10:03
pittimvo: "import ccm" -> 'No module named ccm'10:04
pittimvo: simple-ccsm, line 3110:04
ograArneGoetje, btw, do you have any insight how the new hal input methods will influence the scim stuff ? with intrepid we're likely to switch over to that10:05
mvopitti: *sigh* I thought that got fixed a couple of days ago, let me check. please install compizconfig-settings-manager10:05
ArneGoetjeogra: I have no idea about hal and I doubt that sci will support it.10:05
pittimvo: it's supposed to be 'import ccsm' by chance?10:05
ograArneGoetje, its likely that xorg will need it10:05
pittimvo: hm, no10:06
mvopitti: no, the library is provided by compizconfig-settings-manager, simple-ccsm makes use of it, its a missing dependency10:06
=== tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter
ograArneGoetje, it will switch to no config by default and rely on hal for everything (mice keyboards and layouts)10:06
pittimvo: ah, that did it10:06
cjwatsonogra: scim is at a higher level10:06
ograArneGoetje, so its likely to massively influence scim10:06
ogracjwatson, right10:06
pittimvo: I don't see anythign session-like there?10:06
cjwatsonogra: switching to hal shouldn't affect scim10:06
ArneGoetjeogra: then it will probably not be possible anymore to use scim.10:07
cjwatsonArneGoetje: I don't think that's true - it just changes how xkb is configured10:07
ograi think it changes other stuff as well10:07
* cjwatson puts up a big "DON'T PANIC" sign10:07
ArneGoetjecjwatson: ok, then it should not be an issue indeed10:07
ograanyway, nothing for hardy10:07
ograi just dont want us to have somjething in the LTS thats probably not supportable later anymore ... would be good to have an idea about it in advance10:08
cjwatsonArneGoetje: anyway, don't let the debate about u-a priorities vs. calling im-switch stop you fixing the basic problem - if you feel it has to be by calling im-switch then your call10:09
mvopitti: checking10:09
mvopitti: I have it here in 0.6.99+git20080228-0ubuntu1 (plugins-main) as libsession.so, is that available in your package too?10:12
ArneGoetjecjwatson: the point is that the priorities are set and modified by any IM package which supports im-switch, not only scim. For example, nabi and gcin also set priorities in u-a. So, IMHO the best way would be to leave the priorities alone and use 'none' as explicit default and 'auto' when the user enables the checkbox in l-s (which is a system wide setting by design). if the user runs im-switch in a console he will overwrite the whole thing 10:12
ArneGoetjecjwatson: so, on a multi-user system the best way would be to leave scim disabled in l-s and use the im-switch command on a per user base to set the preferred module or 'auto' if the defaults sound sane to the user.10:14
pittimvo: I mean, in simple-ccsm I only see  "info", animations, effects, workspaces, and a11y10:14
pittimvo: I do have libsession.so, yes10:15
mvopitti: aha, sorry. please run "ccsm" instead of "simple-ccsm"10:15
ArneGoetjeI re-uploaded the scim package to rookery BTW.10:16
pittimvo: ah, it's there and enabled10:16
pittimvo: 'save legacy apps' is off, but the plugin is on10:16
pittimvo: but gnome-terminal is hardly a legacy app?10:16
mvopitti: no, g-t is saved just fine for me10:16
pittimvo: trying with the 'save on quit' checkbox now10:18
mvopitti: thanks10:18
pittierk, WTH was that; the login sound was dramatically bouncing10:19
pittimvo: it looks differnetly disturbed, but still not correct10:19
pittimvo: the multi-tab terminal had the wrong size, and all terminals have wrong position10:20
mvopitti: so the apps are not restored at the right place?10:20
pittiat least the workspace is correct10:20
mvopitti: totally random or just a couple of pixels off?10:20
pitticouple of pixels10:20
pittimaybe 30 or 5010:20
pittimy terminal with mutt on 3rd workspace was sticking on the screen bottom instead of being at the top10:21
mvoArneGoetje: I think this discussion made it clear that language-selector should run as per-user, this would solve most of the problems as I understand it. I will have a look into the code now to see how much work it is10:21
* mvo considers the current behavior a bug10:21
ArneGoetjemvo: yes10:21
pittimvo: how do you install langpacks then?10:21
Nafallomake apt-get suexec *hides*10:22
mvopitti: hm, I wonder if it somehow confuses the decoration when it calculates the sizes10:22
ArneGoetjemvo: at least for the 'default system locale' and 'enable/disbale complex character input'. language packs and -support need to be instaled by root anyways10:22
mvopitti: it will run synaptic as backend with gksu, that should be fine10:22
pittimvo: the size of the 'no tabs' terminals was correct; the terminal size with two tabs was totally off10:22
ArneGoetjemvo: maybe two modes for these two settings. User and Admin... Admin sets system defaults.10:24
\shhow can I disable this damn scim module which is running now by default10:24
Sebastian\sh: Hey Stephan :)10:24
ogra\sh, apt-get remove scim10:24
mvoArneGoetje: not for hardy, if I port it, it will look exactly the same (UI freeze), it will just setup stuff like input methods per-user instead of system-wide10:25
ograor so10:25
ArneGoetje\sh: sudo im-switch -z all_ALL -s none10:25
ograbetter :)10:25
mvoArneGoetje: sorry for that, we can do better for hardy+110:25
ArneGoetjemvo: yeah10:25
\shSebastian: hey...what a surprise :) What gives us the pleasure of your Visit? Not zend-framework, right? :)10:26
Sebastian\sh: No :) Just started lurking here after I have been lurking for a couple of months in #ubuntu+1.10:26
Sebastian\sh: Maybe I should create eZ Components packages at some point.10:27
\shSebastian: That would be great :) Cool that you joined the Ubuntu Force :)10:29
Sebastian\sh: I'm still just a user. Although a very happy one.10:29
\shArneGoetje: thx :)10:29
\shArneGoetje: na that didn't work10:30
Sebastian\sh: It did for me.10:30
ArneGoetje\sh: need to re-login10:30
\shArneGoetje: ah that's the magic10:31
\shSebastian: still in siegburg area? :)10:31
Sebastian\sh: Yes. And today I am actually at home.10:31
Sebastian\sh: Been in Zurich and Munich the last week and leaving for Montreal tomorrow.10:31
Sebastian\sh: And after Montreal I will be near Berlin for a week.10:32
davmor2\sh: Wine works great thanks :)  I can do my course stuff now :)10:32
\shdavmor2: good to hear :)10:32
Sebastian\sh: You're with Webzooms now? I had a coaching/training gig there last year.10:33
\shSebastian: I heard about that :) And the people here were surprised, that I already knew you :)10:33
Sebastian\sh: hehe10:33
SebastianUh, the PHPUnit package is outdated. Maybe I should start by fixing that before getting into new packages.10:33
\shSebastian: I'm happy to sponsor :)10:34
SebastianAh, cool.10:34
\shSebastian: just join #ubuntu-motu :) the coolest crew in the world :)10:34
PecisDarbs_Where is hidden messages in gksu dialogs? I can't find which module I should translate11:20
xivulonmjg59, do you remember the suspend to ram issues in loopinstallations (fuse)? Well have 2 users reporting they can now suspend!11:28
xivulonnot sure what happened there but, I am very pleased11:28
xivulonI won't be able to test that myself until tonight though11:29
ogra_cmpcxivulon, whats the base device under the loop mount ?11:29
ogra_cmpcthe normal windows HD ?11:30
xivulonguess so, ntfs in both cases, will ask about disk specs11:30
* ogra_cmpc wonders if amitk already added the usb presistent patch 11:30
ogra_cmpcxivulon, ah, thats something different than what i am waiting for11:31
ogra_cmpci thought i missed a change11:31
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
xivulonwhat is your issue?11:31
ogra_cmpci have an usb jey as  bottom device ...11:31
ogra_cmpcthey get automatically powered down by the kernel on suspend11:32
xivulonin my case it was problems suspending when root was in a loopfile on top of an ntfs host (i.e. the host device was mounted using fuse)11:32
ogra_cmpcif you resume your device is gone11:32
xivulonlooks nasty11:32
ogra_cmpcit is11:32
xivulonby the way, I'd assume that hibernation does not work with swap on file, correct?11:33
ogra_cmpcbut the function is in the kernel, we just dont enable it ... i'm waiting for a commandlne option to be added to switch it on dynamically11:33
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
xivulonAlso did anyone follow up this story about loopdevice performance: http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/1/9/50 ?11:35
xivulonAny hope to see any of that in the kernel?11:36
amitkogra_cmpc: no patch, only configuration. But no, I haven't finished that task yet. SOON (tm) :)11:37
Bashtonicjwatson: That issue with installation on RAID still happens even with the new 'fixed' installer BTW (#198106)11:39
ogra_cmpcamitk, yeah, i'm monitoring the changelogs, was just wondering if i missed it whn i saw xivulon's comment11:39
cjwatsonBashtoni: please file a new bug with /var/log/syslog and /var/log/partman attached11:48
Bashtonicjwatson: Will do11:48
cjwatsonBashtoni: I'll fix the non-executable thing mentioned in the bug11:48
cjwatsonthat's probably a side-effect of a subversion import bug we fixed YEARS ago11:49
Bashtonicjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/partman-target/+bug/19909512:08
ubotuLaunchpad bug 199095 in partman-target "RAID1 installation fails" [Undecided,New]12:08
cjwatsonBashtoni: thanks; would you be able to do some interactive debugging with me?12:08
cjwatsonBashtoni: (give me a few minutes to prepare, though12:08
Bashtonicjwatson: Can do in a bit, say 2pm GMT?12:09
cjwatsonBashtoni: ok12:10
cjwatsonBashtoni: hop onto #ubuntu-installer when you're ready12:10
Bashtonicjwatson: OK, see you then12:10
slytherinHi all. Does anyone know why the CD images for 'ports' (powerpc, sparc etc) have not been built today?12:11
cjwatsonslytherin: all CD builds are disabled in preparation for alpha 612:17
pittislytherin: they are currently triggered manually; just hasn't been triggered for ports, I assume12:17
slytherinpitti: So whom should I bug for this? Because ports images are one day older than the officially supported architectures. And IMHO, latest GVFS and nautilus checkins call for latest CD.12:18
cjwatsonslytherin: Ubuntu ports building now12:23
cjwatsonthough they might be a bit broken due to partman pain12:24
slytherincjwatson: Thanks. :-) What partman pain by the way?12:24
cjwatsonnon-executable files due to an ancient svn->bzr import bug12:25
cjwatson(fixed years ago, but its effects linger)12:25
slytherincjwatson: Ok. by the way partman doesn't support HFS+ resizing. Is it know and is there any work going on for this?12:26
=== Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth
cjwatsonslytherin: should work if you disable the journal12:34
cjwatsonslytherin: just lack of support in parted, IIRC; I don't know if anyone's working on it12:35
slytherincjwatson: Not sure what that means exactly. But if I try to resize when using Alternative CD it simply says 'HFS+ resizing is not supported'12:35
slytherinI am assuming that the partition manager is 'partman' in alternate CD.12:36
cjwatsonslytherin: yes. partman uses parted.12:36
cjwatsonslytherin: google for 'hfs+ resize parted', first hit relevant12:36
slytherinOk. thanks.12:37
dholbachcan somebody moderate my mail to ubuntu-devel-announce?12:53
cjwatsondholbach: done12:54
dholbachcjwatson: gracias12:54
* ogra_ waits for the next iteration from dholbach ... really_fix_five_a_day :P13:00
* dholbach waits for ogra_ to join 5-a-day :)13:01
cjwatsonBashtoni: I think I've got it, actually13:02
Bashtonicjwatson: Just in time for me to return from lunch :)13:03
Bashtonicjwatson: Let me know if you want me to test13:03
cjwatsonBashtoni: sure, wouldn't hurt13:05
cjwatsonBashtoni: #ubuntu-installer?13:05
slytherinHow can I add upstream bug watch for vunagre?13:15
TomaszDseb128, hi, I've assigned you to a gvfs bug as I've noticed you do the heavylifting for gvfs in Ubuntu. This bug has been fixed in svn trunk and it would be really nice to have it synced https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/196770/13:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 196770 in gvfs "Nautilus with gvfs-obexftp breaks on colons" [Low,Confirmed]13:18
seb128TomaszD: please don't assign bugs, I'm subscribed to gvfs and look at those without that13:19
seb128TomaszD: I'll do a new svn snapshot when the freeze is over13:19
TomaszDseb128, ok, didn't know that.13:19
TomaszDseb128, thanks13:19
seb128you are welcome13:20
sivanghi all13:32
sivangI'm trying to figure how to set up usplash on a debian box, where would be the right channel to ask abou this?13:32
sivang(I'm using the debian etch package)13:33
lamontdear apt.  please accept 'udpate' as valid.  kthx.13:33
* ScottK has often needed dkpg13:34
sorendear apt. please provide and apt-ge alias for yourself and accept tinstall. kthx13:34
sorendear soren. please spell properly. kthx13:34
ion_% apt-ge tinstall13:35
ion_zsh: correct 'apt-ge' to 'apt-get' [nyae]? y13:35
ion_Unfortunately, it doesn’t correct tinstall.13:35
ogra_cmpcsoren, just remove the spacebar from your keyboard and improve tab completion13:35
ion_The tab completion already manages to do apt-get install without hitting the space bar.13:36
ogra_cmpcright, but you would surely waqnt other apps to do that as well without spacebar ;)13:37
sivangis there anyone here who knows a thing or two about usplash ? (hi again to all :) )13:45
sivangfeel free to privmsg me if you will, I would appreciate for some pinpointed help re using it without ramfs (it seems to be hard coded to use certain directories under the ramfs)13:46
pittisivang: no, you can run it under the normal system just fine13:46
* sivang hugs pitti13:47
sivangpitti: are you sure?13:47
sivangpitti: I'm getting chdir errors when executing usplash13:47
pittiusplash -c &13:47
sivangpitti: and the directories listed in usplash.h are not existent13:47
pittiusplash_write "TEXT-URGENT hello"; sleep 2; usplash_write QUIT13:47
* sivang tries13:47
sivangpitti: I'm not using a ramfs so I don't have the .initramfs entry under dev13:48
pittithat might be it13:48
sivangI think so :)13:48
pittiit uses /dev/.initramfs/usplash_outfifo for communication13:48
sivangright, can I just use any other dirs I like in the usplash.h file and rebuild with my setup ?13:48
pittibut you at least need usplash_fifo for usplash_write to work13:48
pittisivang: yes, as long as you also use the rebuilt usplash_write, that should work13:49
sivangpitti: okay, cool, I will try this dude, then is there something comprehensive that automatically sends all regular boot scripts output from stdout to the usplash fifo ?13:50
sivangpitti: or do I need to write something to do that myself if I want to get the init scripts output directed to the usplash screen ?13:51
pittisivang: yes, that's done in the usplash implementation of /lib/lsb/init-functions13:51
pitti(in /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh to be precise)13:52
pittithat turns lsb_daemon_msg et al into usplash_write13:52
sivangvery cool13:52
sivangso that's supposed to work out of the box once recompiled with the correct and existing directory entries13:53
slytherinhow can I add upstream bug watch for vinagre?13:57
seb128slytherin: add on the also affects project under the table13:59
slytherinseb128: It gives this message -  Please select the appropriate upstream project. This step can be avoided by updating the packaging information for vinagre (Ubuntu).14:01
seb128slytherin: you need to register a vinagre product if there is none in launchpad yet14:01
slytherinseb128: vinagre is hosted on gnome project. do I still have to add vinagre product on launchpad?14:03
seb128slytherin: yes14:04
seb128slytherin: that is annoying I agree, but launchpad needs to know what bug tracker, svn etc to use14:05
ScottKseb128: Which it used to be able to figure out from simply asking for a url.14:05
slytherinI thought It was possible to simply give the upstream bug url and it will fetch information14:05
ScottKIt used to be.14:06
ScottKIt's been improved.14:06
slytherinScottK: So how does it work now?14:06
* ScottK is not the guy to answer launchpad how to questions.14:06
* ScottK is unable to answer them without excessive editorialization that isn't always fully consistent with the CoC.14:07
* slytherin joins #launchpad14:07
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
davmor2cjwatson: ping14:14
cjwatsondavmor2: yes?14:21
davmor2cjwatson: on the wiki for alpha 6 Printing from Firefox 3 is now fixed.14:23
cjwatsondavmor2: how come the bug's only fix-committed?14:24
davmor2cjwatson: No idea I've been able to for a few days after the last big set of updates.14:25
cjwatsonasac: ^-- could you comment?14:25
davmor2cjwatson: all the images are being displayed properly too so I think that got fix at the same time :)14:26
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
xivulonRiddell: is there a different logo for Kubuntu-KDE4 vs KDE3.5?14:39
RiddellKubuntu-KDE4 and Kubuntu normal have the same logo14:39
xivulonwas asking in the umenu/wubi context, nothing to change then I assume14:40
tseliotRiddell: is there a way to detect whether a user is running kde4 or kde3 (with "ps" maybe)?14:47
Riddellxivulon: no just the one logo is fine thanks14:47
Riddelltseliot: you can check for plasma (KDE 4) against kdesktop (KDE 3) I guess14:48
Riddelltseliot: why?14:48
tseliotRiddell: I'm writing a pyQT4 interface for EnvyNG and I would like to launch it either with kdesudo or kdesudo-kde414:49
tseliotaccording to the environment14:50
tseliotRiddell: does my need make any sense to you?14:51
tseliotRiddell: or should I just use kdesudo (also on KDE 4)?14:52
Riddelltseliot: a kde 4 session will have $PATH set so it should just find the right kdesudo14:52
tseliotRiddell: ok, thanks. Things are a bit clearer now14:53
Riddelltseliot: remind me again what envyng is?14:53
tseliotRiddell: EnvyNG is a program which builds and installs the latest ATI and/or NVIDIA driver14:54
ChipzzRiddell: envy is a way of installing nvidia drivers14:55
ogra_cmpcRiddell, you clearly dont have enough spare time ...14:55
Chipzztotally broken idea IMO14:55
ogra_cmpcRiddell, info about envyng is hidden on planet.ubuntu.com ;)14:55
tseliotChipzz: it's no longer such14:55
Riddellogra_cmpc: can I have some of yours?14:55
seb128pitti: bug #116984 seems to be one of the avahi bug example14:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 116984 in avahi "Applications can't connect to avahi-daemon until avahi is restarted once." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11698414:56
Chipzztseliot: nvidia drivers should be installed using your package manager, not through some gross hack14:56
Chipzzbut that's just my opinion14:56
seb128pitti: the process is stucked on registering until avahi is restarted14:56
tseliotChipzz: have a look at this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnvyNG14:56
Amaranthyeah, envyng seems pretty sane now14:56
Amaranthwell, as sane as installing a new binary blob can be, they're always breaking something14:57
tseliotAmaranth: yes, I prefer free drivers too...14:57
Amaranthtseliot: I wouldn't mind these drivers if new versions didn't drop support for an older card or break something basically every release14:58
tseliotAmaranth: if the vendor decides to drop the support for your card there's nothing you can do (if the driver i proprietary)15:00
tseliotAmaranth: this is why I chose an Intel card for my laptop ;)15:01
AmaranthI am not complaining, I'm just saying EnvyNG can't be any safer than the driver it is installing15:01
asaccjwatson: davmor2: its fixed upstream; beta 4 will ship the fix15:01
cjwatsondavmor2: perhaps it worked for you by accident?15:01
tseliotAmaranth: you're right15:01
AmaranthWhich is why it can still be dangerous15:01
davmor2cjwatson: Ah okay.15:01
asacdavmor2: we have beta4pre builds in PPA if you want to test15:02
tseliotAmaranth: Ubuntu's l-r-m are always available15:02
davmor2asac: maybe latter try to get through the iso's at the moment :)15:02
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
=== kylem_ is now known as kylem
pittiseb128: re15:19
seb128pitti: wb ;-)15:19
pittiseb128: hm, as a first thing I'd attach grep avahi /var/log/daemon.log after this happens15:21
pittiseb128: and the ps aux|grep avahi output, too, I think (it mentions its state there)15:22
seb128pitti: that's where I get the registering15:22
seb128$ ps ax | grep avahi15:22
seb128 5587 ?        Ss     0:00 avahi-daemon: registering [seb128-desktop.local]15:22
pittimvo: tzdata is built everywhere, FYI (for bug 198129)15:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 198129 in tzdata "Chile delay in 3 weeks the daylight time transition" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19812915:22
pittiseb128: ah15:22
seb128pitti: what is the prefered media to file bugs for avahi? their tracker? or rather the mailing list?15:23
pittiseb128: not sure, but the tracker worked for me in the past15:23
pittiseb128: I pinged Lennart, he's not online yet, though15:24
seb128pitti: ok, let me know what he replies so I can file the bug with useful informations15:24
pittiseb128: I think you should add ps and daemon.log for now15:24
pittithen I'll hand him the URL15:25
seb128pitti: ok, will open a bug for those if I figure how the weird bug tracker is working15:25
pittiseb128: ah, talking to Lennart now15:27
pitti(with some troubles, pidgin otr makes his pidgin segfault)15:27
sivangpitti: hey again, it worked, ths time usplash is working as expected, however, now I get a theme related error "no usable theme for 1024x768"15:33
sivangpitti: any idea how I fix that?15:33
sivangpitti: (it was really a path problem and changing stuff in usplash.h solved it)15:34
pittiseb128: can you gdb attach to it and get a bt?15:35
pittiseb128: possibly with -dbgsym?15:35
=== dholbach_ is now known as dholbach
* sivang hugs dholbach15:36
pittiseb128: hm, do you have ubuntu-artwork installed?15:36
pittiseb128: also, can you change the init script to start the daemon with --debug? this would get it to the syslog15:37
seb128pitti: sure, doing that in a minute15:37
=== Pricey is now known as PriceChild
pittiseb128: can you /j #avahi?15:39
seb128pitti: sure15:40
seb128pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~seb128/avahi/ has a debug bt and the syslog not debug15:40
ogra_is my DNS setup wonky or did google just drop off the face of the earth ?15:45
affluxogra_: it's the deutsche telekom15:46
jeromegogra_: the second option is unlikely to be the good one ;)15:46
ogra_afflux, merci :)15:46
affluxogra_: and it doesn't seem to be only the dns, since connecting to the IP directly doesn't work either15:46
* ogra_ is on a business line, i would have thought thats handled through different routes15:47
ogra_silly telecom :)15:47
* dholbach hugs sivang back15:50
=== asac_ is now known as asac
lamont" Hmm.. this change is not backwardly compatible for 0.0001% of agetty users :-) Applied with small changes.:"16:30
seb128pitti: do you co maintain avahi somewhere or can I just do some changes to it?16:40
pittiseb128: I'm not a Debian uploader16:41
=== sourcode_ is now known as sourocde
pittiseb128: so I can do the change in Ubuntu, or you do it now if you want16:41
seb128pitti: ok, will do the change then, thanks for pinging upstream etc ;-)16:41
pittiyou're welcome16:46
Keybukso, err17:20
KeybukI have a laptop17:20
Keybukit won't let the external display use more than 1024x768 because that's all it knows17:21
Keybukif I add a 1600x1200 mode, it lists it in xrandr17:21
Keybukbut won't set it because the virtual screen size is too small17:21
Keybukxrandr -s 1600x1200 doesn't work, it says that the mode doesn't exist (?)17:21
AmaranthKeybuk: did you set your VirtualSize in xorg.conf?17:25
AmaranthYou need to preset the maximize size you'll need, X can't resize the framebuffer17:25
pittiseb128: re automount_enabled_hint, I do have that to 'false' on my internal hard disks; you don't?17:25
seb128pitti: I've it for the disks but not the partitions17:29
pittiseb128: that's correct17:29
seb128pitti: why?17:30
pittiseb128: ok, I'll look after fixing this, shall I?17:30
pittiseb128: well, that's how it is defined17:30
seb128pitti: are you looking at the gvfs issue?17:30
pittiseb128: yes, just checked the code17:30
pittiit does check volume.ignore, but not storage.automount_enabled_hint17:30
seb128pitti: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=520736 btw17:31
ubotuGnome bug 520736 in hal volume monitor "should not automount system partitions" [Normal,Unconfirmed]17:31
pittiseb128: ah, merci17:32
seb128de rien ;-)17:32
pittiah, it's because I once agreed to keep org.freedesktop.hal.storage.mount-fixed forever17:32
pittithat's why it doesn't ask me for my password any more17:32
KeybukAmaranth: can I do that live?17:33
Keybukmy own laptop has a different 1280x1280 max size17:33
AmaranthKeybuk: nope, have to restart X17:33
AmaranthIf you could do it live you wouldn't have to worry about it at all, it would just do it17:33
KeybukAmaranth: so where does what go?17:34
Amaranthin your Screen section, iirc17:35
AmaranthVirtualSize width height17:35
Keybukwidth height not widthxheight?17:35
AmaranthKeybuk: right17:37
Amaranthoh, wait17:38
AmaranthKeybuk: Section "Screen", Subsection "Display", the option is Virtual width height17:39
=== dAndy is now known as adelcambre
KeybukAmaranth: in hardy, without anything in xorg.conf ... it still seems to maximum limit to 1024x76817:54
Keybuk(one assumes the limit is panel size)17:54
Keybukthat's a bit silly17:54
Keybuksince we don't even have mode lines there17:54
Amaranthright, the default Virtual size is the starting resolution17:54
Amaranthto be able to get a larger resolution than the starting one you need to predefine it17:54
=== Mithrand1r is now known as Mithrandir
Keybukwhy can't it just pick the biggest possible size?17:55
AmaranthKeybuk: because X can't resize the framebuffer17:55
Amaranthyou think it should just make a 4096x4096 framebuffer for everyone whether you need it or not?17:55
Keybukotherwise when they plug in to their big TV, monitor or projector ... they're limited to 1024x76817:56
Keybukwithout xorg.conf surgery17:56
Amaranthtalk to bryce and/or tjaalton then :P17:56
Keybuktjaalton, bryce ^ :-)17:56
AmaranthI want no part in that hackery :P17:57
KeybukAmaranth: do you know think that limiting the external monitor size to the panel size, when the primary reason for *having* an external monitor is more resolution, is a bit ... wrong? :p18:01
AmaranthKeybuk: Oh, I agree it should be fixed18:02
AmaranthI just don't want Xorg people to come stab me18:02
Keybukwell, if they'd designed X right 40 years ago ... <g>18:03
tjaaltonKeybuk: there are hardware limitations too.. some intel chips can only do 2048x204818:08
tjaaltonbut I'm not sure what would be needed to make the max size default18:08
tjaaltonbryce is more uptodate with this stuff :)18:09
=== FreeNode is now known as herb
=== herb is now known as herb_
Keybuktjaalton: mine seems to only do 2048x204818:15
Keybukand even when plugged into a projector capable of 1600x1200 doesn't recognise that (even with Virtual 2048 2048)18:15
Keybukand has to have the modeline manually added with --newmode and --addmode before I can use it18:16
jdstrandhi pitti!18:17
tjaaltonKeybuk: yes, TTM et al should help getting past the limitations18:17
jdstrandpitti, keescook: is there a way to easily find what packages use a shared orig.tar.gz?18:17
* keescook ponders18:17
keescookjdstrand: I don't think so -- all my thoughts end up processing the Packages files with grep-dctrl and the like18:18
jdstrandkeescook: ok, np18:19
Keybukjdstrand: yeah, I hear that Apache 3.0 is blocked on TTM now too :-/18:19
=== miguillo2 is now known as miguillo
Amaranthtjaalton: but TTM will just make it possible to have a framebuffer per output, still can't have my wall-sized monitor :)18:20
jdstrandhmm... TTM...18:21
* jdstrand scratches his head18:21
tjaaltonAmaranth: hmm, ok could be that I'm just confused.. not the first time18:21
Amaranthtjaalton: it'll make it possible to have larger multi monitor setups18:22
Amaranthone framebuffer per monitor18:22
zdzichu_1intel i945 and lower have *3D* limitation to 2k x 2k18:22
Amaranthi was being funny :)18:22
tjaaltonAmaranth: oh right, that's what it was :)18:22
zdzichu_1i965 has 8k x 8x18:22
Amaranthzdzichu_1: I'm pretty sure the 965 is 4096x409618:22
Amaranthzdzichu_1: and that is framebuffer size too18:23
zdzichu_1sorry, I may be wrong, I have i94518:24
=== \sh_away is now known as \sh
zdzichu_1but still, it's 3D limitation only. 2D will work with appropiate sized "Virtual" in xorg.conf18:24
Keybukis there any sane reason why you'd never use the maximum size possible there?18:26
zdzichu_1memory constrain. buffer is preallocated18:27
zdzichu_1(still, if I understand correctly)18:27
Keybukyes, but any reason you wouldn't use the maximum size possible for your video memory?18:28
* Keybuk heads for the train18:28
tjaaltongah, shift-space seems to toggle scim18:30
\shtjaalton: sudo im-switch -z all_ALL -s none and relogin18:32
AmaranthI was typing in Amharic earlier thanks to that18:38
\shgrmpf...fighting with virtualbox and gutsy...somehow it stops at nic-firmware udeb18:40
\shhmm..acpi=off helped18:41
\shor didn't18:42
tjaalton\sh: hmm, thanks.. I'll see if I can live with it for awhile first :)18:42
tjaaltonAmaranth: yeah, nice default :)18:42
=== juliank0 is now known as juliank
=== ryu2 is now known as ryu
zulslangasek: ping does samba need a ffe when its a merge from debian?19:06
=== thegodfather is now known as fabbione
stgraber_MMA_: ping19:28
\shogra_cmpc: can you take care about bug #197261 ?:)19:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 197261 in xaos "please merge xaos 3.2-7 from Debian unstable main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/19726119:35
slangasekTheMuso, persia, joejaxx: looks like there are no ISO tests for Ubuntu Studio yet?19:36
slangasekzul: it needs a FFe whenever it includes significant changes that aren't bugfixes; I don't recall off-hand whether this is the case for the most recent Debian Samba upload19:37
zulslangasek: ok thanks19:37
stgraberogra_cmpc: I plan to install edubuntu-desktop and some other educational stuff from the add-on CD with internet turned off, anything else to be tested for Edubuntu add-on ?19:41
ogra_cmpc\sh, is the .desktop fix in debian ?19:41
ogra_cmpcstgraber, make sure you get a notification that you need to re-login for the new artwork defaults to take effect19:42
ogra_cmpcbeyond that i dont see anything special that needs testing19:42
\shogra_cmpc: I'll check19:44
ogra_cmpci think tormod would have noted that down on the bug19:45
\shogra_cmpc: reading the debian changelog, no19:45
ogra_cmpcthats what i'm waiting for (or a "no" from joey)19:45
ogra_cmpcas long as there are chances that we get it with all our changes merged into hardy i will wait19:46
\shogra_cmpc: but other fixes of tormod are in19:46
ogra_cmpcbut he's talking to joey afaik19:46
ogra_cmpcso chances are there that he gets that in as well before hardy19:47
\shogra_cmpc: just going up dholbachs list of bugs ;)19:47
ogra_cmpcits open in a tab on my desktop, i wont forget about it19:48
stgraberogra_cmpc: it tried to download ttf-sil-gentium from the net19:49
stgraberogra_cmpc: IIRC I saw that package removed from ubuntu-desktop seed19:49
ogra_cmpcwhen ?19:50
stgraberogra_cmpc: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek@ubuntu.com>  Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:37:53 -080019:50
ogra_cmpccrap, that has to move over then i guee that was due to space issues19:51
ogra_cmpcthanks for looking it up (no working browser here atm)19:51
stgraberogra_cmpc: how critical is that ? the font is probably small, but that means our add-on CD curently requires internet to install19:52
stgraberslangasek: ^19:52
ogra_cmpci wonder if that justifies a rebuild ...19:54
stgraberyes, me too ...19:54
keescookslangasek: IIUC, if I look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/*.hardy/all+extra.sources and don't see a given pkg listed, I'm safe to upload it, correct?19:55
keescook(I have a FFe already)19:56
stgraberogra: btw why do we have install/, doc/, isolinux/ and preseed/ on the CD ?19:56
_MMA_stgraber: Im here. (kinda)19:58
stgraber_MMA_: Ubuntu Studio isos need testing (no result on the tracker last time I checked)19:58
_MMA_stgraber: Alpha6?19:59
slangasekstgraber: what is looking for ttf-sil-gentium still?19:59
stgraber_MMA_: yes19:59
stgraberslangasek: edubuntu-desktop I guess19:59
slangasekok, then I think edubuntu-meta needs a reupload19:59
slangasekand yes, add-on CDs are cheap to rebuild, so I think we should go ahead with doing so in this case20:00
stgraberhmm, looking at its deps, it's not the one who's depending on ttf-sil-gentium :(20:00
_MMA_stgraber: 20080306 is to be Alpha6?20:00
slangasekkeescook: well,  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/germinate-output/*.hardy/all+extra.sources doesn't show what's seeded for the derivatives that build out of universe I think?20:01
ogra_slangasek, ok, adding it20:01
keescookslangasek: I meant the "*" to mean I'd check each file... are there others affected by the alpha6 freeze that are in the germinate output?20:02
slangasekogra_: adding what?20:02
ogra_slangasek, the font to the seed20:02
keescookslangasek: really I want to get an answer to theq uestion "is libsemanage in any of the CD images?"20:02
slangasekogra_: is that really what's wanted here?20:02
stgraberogra_cmpc: tuxtype is depending on ttf-gentium20:02
ogra_hmm, that should have pulled them in20:03
slangasekso why does it need added anywhere, tuxtype should pull it in - right20:03
stgraberogra_cmpc: I just played a bit with apt-cache rdepends20:03
\shif anyone has time to review bug #155543, it's appreciated :)20:04
ubotuLaunchpad bug 155543 in xchat-gnome "Does not send IRC color escape codes properly" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15554320:04
ogra_stgraber, your download is outdated20:04
ogra_http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20080305.2/hardy-addon-i386.list has it20:04
slangasekOMG how I hate the new gnome panel clock20:05
stgraberogra_: hang on a sec, I'm trying to find exactly what the issue is20:05
slangasekgive me back my timezone you rat bastard20:05
stgraberogra_: ttf-gentium is on my CD (I just noticed)20:05
stgraberogra_: ok, the error is : ttf-gentium: Depends: ttf-sil-gentium which is a virtual package.20:06
slangasekttf-sil-gentium isn't virtual20:06
slangasekit's a real package, and it's in main20:06
_MMA_stgraber: Just let me know what one is supposed to be pushed as Alpha6 and Ill test. 20080306 or 20080305.2?20:06
slangasekso that's just the "I don't know where this package is" error from apt20:07
ogra_Replaces: ttf-gentium20:07
slangasek_MMA_: this is always documented on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all20:07
stgraberslangasek: well, current Ubuntu-Studio on cdimage is 20080306 and 20080305.2 on the tracker20:08
slangasekogra_: let me just try rebuilding and see if it fixes itself20:08
slangasek_MMA_: the one listed on the tracker is the one we mean to release.  There's been another rebuild since then because I fat-fingered; there were no changes relevant to UbuntuStudio20:09
slangasekstgraber, ogra_: fixed in edubuntu 20080306; please re-test20:11
slangasekI understand on a high-level what happened with 20080305.2, but I'll spare you the horrible details :)20:12
_MMA_slangasek: Ok. Im on it. Ill report ASAP.20:13
slangasekogra_: btw, ttf-gentium is a dummy transitional package; does the current tuxtype depend on ttf-sil-gentium instead?20:17
ogra_the prob is that we dont have the curent tuxtype ... its pending a MIR approval for pango-sdl20:18
slangasekactually, "yes" - the current tuxtype does drop the dependency on ttf-gentium, one way or another20:18
slangasektuxtype is just o-o-d, for the mentioned reason :)20:18
ogra_i culd just quickly drop it but that requires a fresh meta20:18
ogra_tuxtype i mean20:18
slangasekdoesn't matter, a simple respin of the CD was enough to fix the gentium problem in the short term20:19
slangasekso once tuxtype is fixed (MIR or otherwise), the rest shakes out20:19
ogra_sorry for missing that i didnt follow hardy-changes or some days20:20
slangasekhmm?  not sure what you're apologizing for, so... that's ok :)20:21
ogra_well, i maintain the addon CD ...20:21
ogra_so i could have noticed it earlier20:22
* ogra_ feels like a slacker since he doesnt have to test three CDs in six install variants20:22
ogra_(which i did until last release)20:23
slangasekare you subscribed on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/ so you get emails when edubuntu CDs are published for testing?20:23
ogra_i used to20:23
ogra_apparently i dont atm20:23
bdmurray\sh: wouldn't fixed released me more appropriate for bug 180474?20:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 180474 in wammu "[hardy] wammu unable to connect with Nokia 6086" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/18047420:24
bdmurraybe even?20:24
slangasekbdmurray: you mean like the "Fix released" that ubotu just quoted at you? :)20:24
bdmurrayslangasek: that's the upstream task not the ubuntu one20:25
slangasekah :)20:25
stgraberogra_: you now are subscribed to all edubuntu testcases :)20:29
ogra_stgraber, tx20:31
ogra_looks good so far here, its already configuring the packages20:33
_MMA_stgraber: Ahh... Cool. I dint know about the notifications.20:33
stgraber_MMA_: you have to subscribe to the testcases you want and turn on e-mail notifications in your profile20:34
_MMA_stgraber: I updated my profile. I think should get 'em now.20:34
_MMA_I think I did it correctly.20:34
stgraberyou don't seem to be subscribed to Ubuntu Studio's testcases20:35
_MMA_Isnt that "Preferred Ubuntu flavour(s)"?20:35
\shbdmurray: actually it's invalid for hardy...and the bug reporter was at least < hardy;)20:36
stgraber_MMA_: nope, this one is just something that'll appear in your public profile (as soon as we actually have public profile)20:36
stgraber_MMA_: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/136520:36
stgraberand http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/136620:36
stgraberthen tick the one you want and click subscribe20:36
_MMA_Ok. I did. Should there be some kinda confirmation?20:37
\shbdmurray: I would like to see the possibility to know the version of the package the reporter is using...or at least the ubuntu release when the bug was filed...20:37
_MMA_stgraber: nm. got it20:38
bdmurray\sh: I'm the reporter and I was using Hardy20:39
\shbdmurray: sry :)20:42
\shbdmurray: now20:42
bdmurray\sh: thanks, it just seemed liked Fix Released was the best state for that bug.20:43
\shbdmurray: well, the right thing(tm) would be: wammu -> invalid , gammu fix released ;)20:44
\shdoko: are you updating vnc4 somehow? it ftfbs somehow (amd64)20:46
doko\sh: no20:47
\shdoko: any advise for make it building? it looks really weired with that xserver-xorg deb pkg inside ;)20:48
bdmurray\sh: because wammu is just a frontend for gammu right?20:48
\shbdmurray: jepp...20:48
TheMusoslangasek: Cory was supposed to get them sorted, but the fact is that we don't have many testers. Theres pretty much myself, Cory, and one or two others from the dev team.20:50
TheMusoWhich is rather disheartening.20:50
* _MMA_ is installing i386 now.20:52
stgraberogra_: edubuntu add-on looks good but my virtual HDD wasn't large enough and ran out of space, I'm doing an alternate install on a bigger hdd and will try again20:55
stgraberPlease, could someone test auto-resize with debian-installer, according to http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/testcases (which will need to be reworked) it hasn't been tested on any ISO20:59
=== \sh is now known as \sh_away
slangasekTheMuso: well, it sounds like _MMA_ is subscribed to the ISO tracker now for UbuntuStudio, so perhaps that will help for the future :)21:06
=== kylem_ is now known as kylem
slangaseksuperm1: fwiw, since we don't have it set up for inclusion in the ISO testing, I'm not planning to include it in the release announcement; but if you want to do some testing and announce your own mythbuntu alpha-6, I'm happy to take care of the publishing side of things21:31
slangaseksuperm1: eh, "it" -> "mythbuntu"21:31
mario_limonciellslangasek, it's not entirely functional yet after testing the ISO.  the main thing that we wanted to use it for (diskless) isn't spawning properly.  we'll probably hold off until beta to make an announce (assuming that part gets straightened out)21:37
slangasekmario_limonciell: ok, sounds good21:38
slangasek_MMA_: how goes the UbuntuStudio testing?21:48
* TheMuso has just synced ubuntustudio and is burning now.21:50
ion_Ouch. Better not sync ubuntustudio then.21:51
ion_Should we call the fire department?21:51
TheMusohar har har21:51
_MMA_slangasek: 97% (cleaning up) Manual partitioning test.21:54
slangasekgreat, thanks21:55
_MMA_slangasek: I do get a lang pack error but Im US_en. Install has completed.21:57
slangasekmm, what is the langpack error?21:57
_MMA_Language pack.21:58
slangasekI know what a langpack is, what's the *error*?21:58
_MMA_One I never seen. Forgot to take a pick. :(21:59
slangaseki386, or amd64?21:59
_MMA_Something about them being missing.21:59
slangasekthere are updated language pack packages on the image from 20080306; should we check to see if that one's better?22:00
_MMA_slangasek: If you have time to wait, sure.22:01
_MMA_Will take about 90mins.22:01
_MMA_slangasek: It installed. I doubt anyone but the team will really care 'till release. Then we will get a ear full for whatever people find.22:03
_MMA_Id just push this.22:04
_MMA_Im still gonna do the other tests and report later.22:04
* ogra_cmpc scratches his head about the ping sound gnome-power-manager makes on lid close/open 22:27
ogra_cmpci really wonder why someone thinks i need notification about an action i'm actually just doing ...22:28
slangasekah, is that g-p-m's fault?22:29
ogra_cmpcyou can switch on/off sounds completely in the power settings ...22:29
ogra_cmpcbut then you wont get alarm sounds etc22:30
ogra_cmpcthe feature in general is good ...22:31
ogra_cmpcits just silly for this action ...22:31
amitkslangasek: is openoffice broken-ness known?22:49
Amaranthogra_cmpc: It makes me feel like I have a Thinkpad :P22:50
slangasekamitk: not to me22:50
AmaranthI just saw someone else complaining about OOo22:52
AmaranthMaybe they caught a bad update22:52
amitkslangasek: https://pastebin.canonical.com/3070/ - I am running amd64.22:52
slangasekerm, that appears to be a password-protected pastebin and I don't know the l/p off the top of my head - can you push it somewhere public?22:53
amitkI am off now, good night22:53
StevenK"openoffice.org: Depends: openoffice.org-writer2latex but it is not installable" is the error22:54
amitkslangasek: http://pastebin.com/d38af47d122:55
slangasekok, thanks22:55
slangasekyeah, I haven't seen that error before now; the OOo metapackage hasn't been seeded for quite some time, between dependency and size issues22:56
slangasekthat should go into a bug report on openoffice.org in LP though, if it hasn't already; I can have a look once I'm done pushing alpha-6 out the door22:57
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette

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